#para discourse

[philtrum]

it’s so hard and weird being pro para and anti transid because you’ll get lumped under “radqueer”

like how tf are “kinksters should be allowed to exist and people with paraphilic disorders should face less stigma so they can get the help they need” and “it’s okay to identify as another race” the same opinion 😭😭😭😭😭

[twilight-spakle-cluster]

it's weird how "You need to like actually harm someone or something for it to be a violation of consent. Just doing things without their involvement or thinking about doing things doesn't count. " is not like. the standard position and will get you people claiming you are making rape apologia because you do not believe in literal thoughtcrime.

[annieguardian]

Going to post my replies to strawpage questions here so people who don't follow my private Twitter can see them. Anyway, not giving me an easy first question. I don't have an easy answer for this one. I'm hardline Anti-C, but I acknowledge that normies won't treat Pro C and Anti C differently. The issue with this question is that I'm answering it as a non para who has normie friends. Even with the vitriol I've received, there's an enormous difference in perception. Paraphiles generally don't have anyone but each other, and being a hardline anti-C tends to decrease your social circle even more than it already has. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to stop pro Cs from having influence in para spaces, the best thing to do is to ditch this deranged "all pedos/zoos must die" mindset, and work on building a strong Anti contact movement so that Anti-Cs have other options. While ""kill all paras" is still very much the status quo, more people are waking up to this, which is a good sign.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

that's entirely not what i'm talking about. i agree, groomers bad, ezra bad, words like 'MAP' bad, para pride flags bad, radqueer bad. i never said any of that was good. i'm also very staunchly pro ANTI-contact para.

"This is where I learned the words con abuse as well and hell, I have seen underage users making forms to find someone who abuses them. Is this normal to you? Is making a cult based on yourself something normal? It is not grooming?"

i'm not for any of that, and i never said i was! i actively report those posts minors make, i block those cult blogs, and i will call out someone i think is a genuine danger to others!

"I prefer to side with antis who doesn't like what I consume rather than someone who makes pedophile pride flags. (Not MAP, the term is bullshit. Call them for what they are, pedophiles). I couldn't care less that me hating on groomers and being concerned for victims is "you are using anti rethoric!!! Switch paras for proshippers 😣😣!!!" I don't care."

you're not just hating on groomers, though. you're assuming every paraphile is a groomer, which is objectively incorrect, and siding with antis who want those people dead. you're allowed to be uncomfortable with them! block them, ignore them, do what you have to do to make your life more comfortable, but you can't just paint an entire community as The Bad Thing™ bc you're uncomfortable with it.

"A real community. Not Tumblr users who makes pedophile incestuous animals lovers headcanons and makes paraphiles as something uwu quirky to have. These are real people who need help, this para community is BS because you are not only treating them like children but also ends calling the attention of underage users."

i'm sorry to break it to you, but paraphiles deserve a space to talk, too. shaming them into small, dingy corners of the internet only serves to hurt more people. also, "headcanons". not real. these are thoughts inside their head that they are expressing through text. there is nothing being directly harmed. you are advocating for thoughtcrimes here.

you're getting into an anti's way of thinking again by saying "These are real people who need help, this para community is BS..." because this is the exact same thing antis say about proshippers. if you can say this about thoughts in a paraphiles head, why can't you say it about thoughts in a proshippers head? what is the actual difference?

"Propara community is actively grooming children. Proshipping is not pro paraphiles. Proshipping is pro-fucking-seek-for-help though."

no it's not. the entire community is not responsible for a few members. this is the exact same thing as "the proship community is actively grooming children". do some of them hurt others? yes! do ALL of them? no.

in my opinion, being proship ALSO means being anti thoughtcrimes. in other words, what you *think* doesn't equate to what you *do*, thoughts aren't actions and so on. if you think thoughtcrimes exist for one group, and not the other, you're a hypocrite.

the logic of "a paraphile's thoughts can hurt someone" can be used for ANY community, but especially the proship community, because "well, they like fictional murder, so they must like it in real life!". "they think about murder, so they must be acting it out in real life!". see how that makes no sense?

part of the issue with paraphiles getting help is the lack of acceptance, and the amount of shame associated. that's why it's important for them to have spaces to talk about their paraphilias, no matter how uncomfy it might be for the rest of us (thank god for the block button, because we also block a not-insignificant amount of propara blogs!). but they're allowed to talk about their attractions. they're allowed to mention whatever headcanons or thoughts that come into their heads, as long as it doesn't hurt real, living beings.

calling every paraphile a groomer doesn't help, and only shames them further. this entire post is part of the problem.

I hate these posts.

either you are AGAINST the idea of thought-crimes, or you're not. just bc someone's a paraphile does NOT make them any kind of offender. being proship, you almost HAVE to be pro-(anti contact) para, because part of being proship is recognizing that your imagination also can't hurt anyone.

ignoring all that, though, the other glaring issue is that these are the exact arguments antis make towards us. calling people predators with no proof, saying paras should "keep it private", that paras are trying to "groom" people into believing their paraphilias are good. replace "paras" with "proshippers" and you've got the same dumb arguments WE'VE BEEN HAVING FOR YEARS.

EVEN FURTHER THAN THAT, what happened to using the block button? why do y'all forget all about that as soon as it's a paraphile, or at minimum, someone you DEEM to be a paraphile. y'all are no better than the people you are against.

[conejitomareador]

yeah this too

[trinketkitten]

If you refuse to respect a transage person’s ID age, then you are not only ageist, but transphobic as well.

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Hey retard, pedophile killer back again, if you support pedophilia and dark ships in any way, THAT MAKES YOU A PEDO!!!

I don’t know what your one fucking braincell fighting for 5th place against your fucking ego can’t comprehend in that but hey, at least that gives us an excuse to doxx and curb stop you :)

Don’t be surprised when your address magically ends up somewhere on the internet pedo 🖕

Lmfao I'm crying the pedophile killer.

Also the slur! Get the bingo card!

Dude has no idea what pedophile means and that's true. Pedophilia is a paraphilia, which have been demonized since the beginning. Pedophilia ≠ Child Predation. Obviously, when acted alone, pedophilia is wrong, and very bad, and can very much turn into child predation.

Pedophilia is a sexual desire, and can very much be intrusive thoughts for a person. Some people don't want to be pedophiles, but are stuck with intrusive thoughts. The more you say "kill all pedophiles" you're going to harm innocent people and children. Why? Because you make the innocent ones hide away and not search for help, and they'll either kill themselves, or hurt a child, no longer being innocent. If you let people know what pedophilia truly is, then they can get help, they can cope and recover, and no one gets hurt in the end!

Also, you know dark ships are not always based around pedophilia, right? It's important to me that you know that.

Your threats mean nothing when you're anonymous. 🩷

[anti-rq-sayori]

Small reminder

Paraphilias ARE disorders. They are not something to be ashamed of and people with them deserve help.

Paraphila ≠ abuse

On the other hand, paraphilias aren't an identity either. While having flags for them isn't bad, it is bad too act like they're an LGBTQ+ identity.

[twilight-spakle-cluster]

All anti-kink stuff when you get down to it really does eventually get to just straight up thought crime. the desire to fuck animals is Bestiality. You've done something wrong and sinful by merely having the idea.

[0bsess1v3-dracoryf]

As someone with a plethora of paraphilias

What the fuck do you mean recovery?

I'm genuinely baffled that some people think this is something you can recover from, it's just like any other attraction, do you want me to tell you to recover from being gay? As a gay person that makes me sick, so why don't you think it makes us sick when you put "DNI paraphiles unless you're recovering" in your pinned post

What is there to recover from? And don't think this means I'm pro contact, genuinely fuck that shit, but this attraction isn't hurting me so what is there to recover from? Do you think every paraphile is suffering? Some of us are happy the way we are without hurting anyone

I think some of you genuinely need to read the definition of paraphilia, because it's clear you never have.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

i've been seeing a lot of posts recently about the proship community, and their "obsession" with complaining/talking about them, saying stuff like "i miss when fandom was more than just "i ship taboo things and that's my entire personality"", and i think i disagree with a lot of those posts.

the thing with fandom is that it used to be that way, UNTIL antis started policing what you could and couldn't do. it was inevitable that some of us were gonna double down and talk very openly about all the dark stuff we ship. is it totally reactionary? yes. was it without cause? no. this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.

but also, like. i feel like y'all (not you reading this post but. the ppl that make those kinds of posts) are missing out on a few very key details, being:

the proship community was started as a reaction to antis in the first place. they are intrinsically linked together, whether we like it or not. being proship is reactive, fork found in kitchen,

all these different terms exists because of antis, not because of proshippers. complain all you want about "x/y is a comship!" or "a/b is a darkship!", because i agree, it doesn't matter! it's all shipping in the end! antis are the ones that actually gaf because to them it matters A LOT if you ship The Bad Thing™,

fandom is what you make of it. if you don't wanna ship taboo things, have at it! do what you want forever, but the need to shame people that like darkships and talk abt it openly on their blogs is odd,

you don't have to tag generic fandom stuff with "proship", you are allowed to exist in the main tags!! you don't have to go searching for positive fandom stuff in the proship tags!!

i think y'all forget this is a blogging site, not just a social media site. i'm here for my *own* enjoyment, entertainment, and sometimes catharsis. if i see an annoying take from an anti, i'm gonna post about it, bc it's *my* blog. yes, we can (and often do) block antis, but that doesn't mean we can't bitch about them. the blocking feature exists for everyone, and if you don't like what those kinds of proshippers talk about, block the individual, not just the tags.

like, i'm sorry to break it to you, but things don't have to be all unicorns-and-rainbows positive all the time. sometimes we wanna bitch and complain, and that's OKAY!

there's nothing wrong with having your "entire personality" being liking darkships! (i have issues w that phrasing btw, bc most of the ppl that talk Like That™ are bait accounts, or it's a side account where they only want to talk about their darkships. point is, them liking taboo ships is def just one facet of their personalities, not their whole personality)

the problem isn't people in this community "killing the vibe", the problem is you letting your vibes be killed by stuff you don't like!

[synthedicfucker]

Am I the only one who finds it weird how people have just started shipping PV and SM after the last two updates after the whole fandom criticized it for being “proship” and “problematic” but now that’s it’s popular people are just pretending it never happened??? It might just be my algorithm though, idk, I’ve been proudly shipping PV and SM since SM was introduced. 🤷

[irlmagicalboy]

I’ll never understand those who are anti radqueer.

Queer people have never been accepted by society including when using queer to describe LGBTQIA+ we’ve always been seen as strange

Why do we feel the need to turn labels into a box for cishet individuals to understand, if it feels comfortable someone should be allowed to use it

Stop trying to change things to fit the norms cishet people try to place on us.

[petsemataries]

it baffles me how proshippers, and even some antis, don't realize that fiction isn't the problem. it's the community. it's the fact that it actively exposes minors to hard kinks and heavy topics by being "anti-censorship".

if you indulge in dark fiction in private, with consenting people who you KNOW are the same age as you, and also keep it private, if anyone? whatever. i don't care. i do that too, because i know limits. i know how and when to stop. i know consent, and i know age.

if you do it publicly? on a tumblr blog, where minors can view and sometimes even follow you? you're a predator. full stop. it should be complete common sense that people who indulge in dark reality, will also indulge in dark fiction. and when you combine that with minors who proship... what do you get? what do you think happens?

if you're a minor, encouraging the behavior? guess what. that's also predatory, regardless of age. there will always be someone younger, more impressionable than you.

"but i've never seen that happen!" i have. and do you wanna know why? i was a victim of it.

proshipping doesn't mean "ship and let ship" anymore. it means you actively engage in a community that enables grooming and pedophilia, purposefully or not.

i can promise you this - 90% of pro/neutral/complex contact paraphile blogs, even the "anti-contact" ones, radqueer blogs, xenosatanist blogs, etc, were once and/or still are proshippers. do you wonder why? take a guess.

"that's unfair! paraphiles don't equal offenders!" i'm diagnosed with paraphilic disorders, don't even start. positively publicizing a disorder like that, exposing it to minors, is pro-contact in itself. you are encouraging that behavior, no matter how much you say you're anti-contact.

and i also think it's worth noting, that contactless crimes exist.

[skylargoesbark]

What being "pro para" means to me

What being pro para does NOT mean: being pro radqueer What being pro para does NOT mean: being pro contact What being pro para DOES mean: everything below the cut! (parts of this post are copy and pasted from my radqueer post)

Aha, this post will probably get me burned alive. Oh well!!

Trigger warnings for mentions of sexual assault.

First of all, what really is a paraphilia? To quote Oxford Languages, a paraphilia is "a condition characterized by abnormal sexual desires". A paraphilia can be considered "non harmful" (EX: objectophilia/objectum, attraction to objects; fictophilia/fictosexuality, attraction exclusively/primarily to fictional characters), or "harmful". The most well known "harmful" paraphilias are the "Big Three": pedophilia (attraction to minors), necrophilia (attraction to corpses), and zoophilia (attraction to theriform animals). The term "Big Three" is commonly associated with radqueers, but they do have a point that those paraphilias are stigmatized. Being pro para is simply being for the existence of paraphiles without stigmatization. Most who say they are anti para are really anti contact.

What is contact? Whether or not harmful paraphilias should be able to be acted upon (as in, making contact with the object of affection). This mostly boils down to whether or not the object of affection (whether it be a child, a theriform animal, a corpse, or something else) can consent. Anti-contact means one believes the object of affection cannot consent. Complex-contact means one believes that whether or not contact should be allowed depends on the situation. Contact-neutral can mean anything from one not wanting to disclose their real contact stance to not caring. Being pro-contact means one endorses a paraphile with a harmful paraphilia making contact with their object of affection. I am anti-contact.

Most beings I've met who call themselves "anti para" are really anti contact, as I said above. Some will clarify and say "pro non-harmful para, anti harmful para", but this is still not good. As I said in this reblog:

Most harmful paraphiles never commit sexual assault. Saying that every harmful paraphile will commit sexual assault and has no way of controlling themselves whatsoever is like reducing depressed beings to only the numbers of suicide cases and ignoring all other factors. Just "they had depression so they killed themselves". Not how they did it, not the warning signs, not family history, not whether they were in therapy or on medication, not other disorders they had, not talking to anyone who knew them, ONLY that they had depression, so they killed themselves, and that every single being with depression will kill themselves.

Simply having a paraphilia, harmful of not, does not mean you will act on it. Simplifying paraphilia down to sexual assault is an incredibly elementary take. It's almost embarrassing how surface-level and low-research it is, especially since it takes 20 seconds to Google the root cause of pedophilia (most commonly cited as childhood sexual abuse).

To circle back to suicide, did you know that, even with the minimal research done, paraphiles are more likely to attempt to kill themselves? (Secondary source)

What do paras deserve/are entitled to?:

They deserve to get therapy and not be stigmatized within therapy. (Side note: won't name names, but certain beings have been treating paraphilias like something that should only exist within the confines of therapy before disappearing forever.)

They deserve to speak about their experiences online and not be blocked simply *for* being a paraphile, but for the content itself.

Cope however they need to assuming they do not make contact with their object of affection.

So, yeah, I'm pro para because I think paraphiles deserve to live without being stigmatized, but anti contact for harmful paraphiles. That's it. Think before saying you're anti para.

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Antis when a fandom ships two characters that are blood related.... "Proshippers ruin everything!!!"

No, that's a com/darkshipper. What you're seeing is com/darkshippers, not proshippers. Proshippers aren't the ones shipping two brothers... Com/darkshippers are. It doesn't matter if the labels overlap, what you are upset about is com/darkshipping.

Stop confusing the terms.