#pro para discourse

[annieguardian]

Going to post my replies to strawpage questions here so people who don't follow my private Twitter can see them. Anyway, not giving me an easy first question. I don't have an easy answer for this one. I'm hardline Anti-C, but I acknowledge that normies won't treat Pro C and Anti C differently. The issue with this question is that I'm answering it as a non para who has normie friends. Even with the vitriol I've received, there's an enormous difference in perception. Paraphiles generally don't have anyone but each other, and being a hardline anti-C tends to decrease your social circle even more than it already has. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to stop pro Cs from having influence in para spaces, the best thing to do is to ditch this deranged "all pedos/zoos must die" mindset, and work on building a strong Anti contact movement so that Anti-Cs have other options. While ""kill all paras" is still very much the status quo, more people are waking up to this, which is a good sign.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

i've been seeing a lot of posts recently about the proship community, and their "obsession" with complaining/talking about them, saying stuff like "i miss when fandom was more than just "i ship taboo things and that's my entire personality"", and i think i disagree with a lot of those posts.

the thing with fandom is that it used to be that way, UNTIL antis started policing what you could and couldn't do. it was inevitable that some of us were gonna double down and talk very openly about all the dark stuff we ship. is it totally reactionary? yes. was it without cause? no. this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.

but also, like. i feel like y'all (not you reading this post but. the ppl that make those kinds of posts) are missing out on a few very key details, being:

the proship community was started as a reaction to antis in the first place. they are intrinsically linked together, whether we like it or not. being proship is reactive, fork found in kitchen,

all these different terms exists because of antis, not because of proshippers. complain all you want about "x/y is a comship!" or "a/b is a darkship!", because i agree, it doesn't matter! it's all shipping in the end! antis are the ones that actually gaf because to them it matters A LOT if you ship The Bad Thing™,

fandom is what you make of it. if you don't wanna ship taboo things, have at it! do what you want forever, but the need to shame people that like darkships and talk abt it openly on their blogs is odd,

you don't have to tag generic fandom stuff with "proship", you are allowed to exist in the main tags!! you don't have to go searching for positive fandom stuff in the proship tags!!

i think y'all forget this is a blogging site, not just a social media site. i'm here for my *own* enjoyment, entertainment, and sometimes catharsis. if i see an annoying take from an anti, i'm gonna post about it, bc it's *my* blog. yes, we can (and often do) block antis, but that doesn't mean we can't bitch about them. the blocking feature exists for everyone, and if you don't like what those kinds of proshippers talk about, block the individual, not just the tags.

like, i'm sorry to break it to you, but things don't have to be all unicorns-and-rainbows positive all the time. sometimes we wanna bitch and complain, and that's OKAY!

there's nothing wrong with having your "entire personality" being liking darkships! (i have issues w that phrasing btw, bc most of the ppl that talk Like That™ are bait accounts, or it's a side account where they only want to talk about their darkships. point is, them liking taboo ships is def just one facet of their personalities, not their whole personality)

the problem isn't people in this community "killing the vibe", the problem is you letting your vibes be killed by stuff you don't like!

[trinketkitten]

If you refuse to respect a transage person’s ID age, then you are not only ageist, but transphobic as well.

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Hey retard, pedophile killer back again, if you support pedophilia and dark ships in any way, THAT MAKES YOU A PEDO!!!

I don’t know what your one fucking braincell fighting for 5th place against your fucking ego can’t comprehend in that but hey, at least that gives us an excuse to doxx and curb stop you :)

Don’t be surprised when your address magically ends up somewhere on the internet pedo 🖕

Lmfao I'm crying the pedophile killer.

Also the slur! Get the bingo card!

Dude has no idea what pedophile means and that's true. Pedophilia is a paraphilia, which have been demonized since the beginning. Pedophilia ≠ Child Predation. Obviously, when acted alone, pedophilia is wrong, and very bad, and can very much turn into child predation.

Pedophilia is a sexual desire, and can very much be intrusive thoughts for a person. Some people don't want to be pedophiles, but are stuck with intrusive thoughts. The more you say "kill all pedophiles" you're going to harm innocent people and children. Why? Because you make the innocent ones hide away and not search for help, and they'll either kill themselves, or hurt a child, no longer being innocent. If you let people know what pedophilia truly is, then they can get help, they can cope and recover, and no one gets hurt in the end!

Also, you know dark ships are not always based around pedophilia, right? It's important to me that you know that.

Your threats mean nothing when you're anonymous. 🩷

[anti-rq-sayori]

Small reminder

Paraphilias ARE disorders. They are not something to be ashamed of and people with them deserve help.

Paraphila ≠ abuse

On the other hand, paraphilias aren't an identity either. While having flags for them isn't bad, it is bad too act like they're an LGBTQ+ identity.

[0bsess1v3-dracoryf]

As someone with a plethora of paraphilias

What the fuck do you mean recovery?

I'm genuinely baffled that some people think this is something you can recover from, it's just like any other attraction, do you want me to tell you to recover from being gay? As a gay person that makes me sick, so why don't you think it makes us sick when you put "DNI paraphiles unless you're recovering" in your pinned post

What is there to recover from? And don't think this means I'm pro contact, genuinely fuck that shit, but this attraction isn't hurting me so what is there to recover from? Do you think every paraphile is suffering? Some of us are happy the way we are without hurting anyone

I think some of you genuinely need to read the definition of paraphilia, because it's clear you never have.

[synthedicfucker]

Am I the only one who finds it weird how people have just started shipping PV and SM after the last two updates after the whole fandom criticized it for being “proship” and “problematic” but now that’s it’s popular people are just pretending it never happened??? It might just be my algorithm though, idk, I’ve been proudly shipping PV and SM since SM was introduced. 🤷

[irlmagicalboy]

I’ll never understand those who are anti radqueer.

Queer people have never been accepted by society including when using queer to describe LGBTQIA+ we’ve always been seen as strange

Why do we feel the need to turn labels into a box for cishet individuals to understand, if it feels comfortable someone should be allowed to use it

Stop trying to change things to fit the norms cishet people try to place on us.

[skylargoesbark]

What being "pro para" means to me

What being pro para does NOT mean: being pro radqueer What being pro para does NOT mean: being pro contact What being pro para DOES mean: everything below the cut! (parts of this post are copy and pasted from my radqueer post)

Aha, this post will probably get me burned alive. Oh well!!

Trigger warnings for mentions of sexual assault.

First of all, what really is a paraphilia? To quote Oxford Languages, a paraphilia is "a condition characterized by abnormal sexual desires". A paraphilia can be considered "non harmful" (EX: objectophilia/objectum, attraction to objects; fictophilia/fictosexuality, attraction exclusively/primarily to fictional characters), or "harmful". The most well known "harmful" paraphilias are the "Big Three": pedophilia (attraction to minors), necrophilia (attraction to corpses), and zoophilia (attraction to theriform animals). The term "Big Three" is commonly associated with radqueers, but they do have a point that those paraphilias are stigmatized. Being pro para is simply being for the existence of paraphiles without stigmatization. Most who say they are anti para are really anti contact.

What is contact? Whether or not harmful paraphilias should be able to be acted upon (as in, making contact with the object of affection). This mostly boils down to whether or not the object of affection (whether it be a child, a theriform animal, a corpse, or something else) can consent. Anti-contact means one believes the object of affection cannot consent. Complex-contact means one believes that whether or not contact should be allowed depends on the situation. Contact-neutral can mean anything from one not wanting to disclose their real contact stance to not caring. Being pro-contact means one endorses a paraphile with a harmful paraphilia making contact with their object of affection. I am anti-contact.

Most beings I've met who call themselves "anti para" are really anti contact, as I said above. Some will clarify and say "pro non-harmful para, anti harmful para", but this is still not good. As I said in this reblog:

Most harmful paraphiles never commit sexual assault. Saying that every harmful paraphile will commit sexual assault and has no way of controlling themselves whatsoever is like reducing depressed beings to only the numbers of suicide cases and ignoring all other factors. Just "they had depression so they killed themselves". Not how they did it, not the warning signs, not family history, not whether they were in therapy or on medication, not other disorders they had, not talking to anyone who knew them, ONLY that they had depression, so they killed themselves, and that every single being with depression will kill themselves.

Simply having a paraphilia, harmful of not, does not mean you will act on it. Simplifying paraphilia down to sexual assault is an incredibly elementary take. It's almost embarrassing how surface-level and low-research it is, especially since it takes 20 seconds to Google the root cause of pedophilia (most commonly cited as childhood sexual abuse).

To circle back to suicide, did you know that, even with the minimal research done, paraphiles are more likely to attempt to kill themselves? (Secondary source)

What do paras deserve/are entitled to?:

They deserve to get therapy and not be stigmatized within therapy. (Side note: won't name names, but certain beings have been treating paraphilias like something that should only exist within the confines of therapy before disappearing forever.)

They deserve to speak about their experiences online and not be blocked simply *for* being a paraphile, but for the content itself.

Cope however they need to assuming they do not make contact with their object of affection.

So, yeah, I'm pro para because I think paraphiles deserve to live without being stigmatized, but anti contact for harmful paraphiles. That's it. Think before saying you're anti para.

[proshipezreal]

One thing that does annoy me about the proship community is how many people use the phrase "harmful paraphilas" like. I thought you guys knew that thoughts ≠ actions. There is no such thing as an inheritly harmful paraphilia, only harmful actions. If you mean "actual abusers" just say that. There are plenty of people with "harmful paraphilias" that would never hurt anyone or anything. Just because some people with those paraphilias do bad things that doesn't mean everyone who falls into that group does or will.

Saying or just implying someone is inherently harmful for thoughts they literally cannot control, and that most do not act on, is anti behaviour honestly. Just because someone thinks or feels something that doesn't mean they're going to do that, just like how if someone writes or enjoys something in fiction that doesn't mean they condone it irl. Use your brains people.

[philtrum]

it’s so hard and weird being pro para and anti transid because you’ll get lumped under “radqueer”

like how tf are “kinksters should be allowed to exist and people with paraphilic disorders should face less stigma so they can get the help they need” and “it’s okay to identify as another race” the same opinion 😭😭😭😭😭

[philialov3r]

ᴿᵉᵖᵒʳᵗⁱⁿᵍ ᵖᵉᵒᵖˡᵉ ᵈᵘᵉ ᵗᵒ ᵗʰᵉⁱʳ ᵗᵃˢᵗᵉ ⁱⁿ ᶠⁱᶜᵗⁱᵒⁿ ᵃⁿᵈ/ᵒʳ ᵒᵗʰᵉʳ ᵃᵗᵗʳᵃᶜᵗⁱᵒⁿˢ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʸ ʰᵃᵛᵉ ⁿᵒ ᶜᵒⁿᵗʳᵒˡ ᵒᵛᵉʳ ⁱˢ ᵗᵃᵏⁱⁿᵍ ᵃʷᵃʸ ʳᵉˢᵒᵘʳᶜᵉˢ ᶠʳᵒᵐ ᵖᵉᵒᵖˡᵉ ʷʰᵒ ᵃᶜᵗᵘᵃˡˡʸ ⁿᵉᵉᵈ ⁱᵗ ᵃⁿᵈ ᵐᵃᵏⁱⁿᵍ ᵃˡᵒᵗ ᵒᶠ ᵖᵉᵒᵖˡᵉ'ˢ ᵒⁿˡʸ ˢᵃᶠᵉ ˢᵖᵃᶜᵉ ᵘⁿˢᵃᶠᵉ ᵃⁿᵈ ᵘⁿᵘˢᵃᵇˡᵉ

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Antis when a fandom ships two characters that are blood related.... "Proshippers ruin everything!!!"

No, that's a com/darkshipper. What you're seeing is com/darkshippers, not proshippers. Proshippers aren't the ones shipping two brothers... Com/darkshippers are. It doesn't matter if the labels overlap, what you are upset about is com/darkshipping.

Stop confusing the terms.

[synthedicfucker]

Some people are just so chronically online, if you think shipping or enjoying dark fiction or taboo topics IN FICTION not irl makes you a bad person or “predator” you should touch grass, fiction is just that fantasy, and newsflash it’s been a thing since the dawn of mankind, get a life man, accept your the weird ones making a fuss out of nothing instead of caring about REAL victims.

[nectar-rain]

I'm gonna make this post because I wanna link it for whenever I need to just. Fucking reblog it, because I saw smtn that I shoulda spoke up on faster, I will admit. Fully on me for not doing so.

Don't fucking harass people??? Nonetheless doxx and blackmail them??? What the fuck.

This does absolutely no god damn good and only has value if you feel the need to hold something against another's head for the sake of whatever power trip you feel you need to go on.

You can disagree with what someone does without aiming to harm them. You can even CALL OUT FUCKED UP BEHAVIOR. WITHOUT FUCKING HARASSING THEM.

Like. I'm vehemently anti harassment, pro education, and I (or, at least, try to) hold myself to these values strongly, and disagree with anyone doing this type of shit point blank.

Now, I'm gonna continue planning other things in my life for now until I have energy for finishing my posts or see something I should talk 'bout on this acct.

[radqfirstsprinkle]

Bro blocked me before I could even see their dumbass counter argument against paraphilic teens having a safe space to know not everyone wants to fucking murder them.

Like I get what they're thinking yea it's dangerous to have minors around pro-c MAPs but guess what. They're not ONLY going to be in paraphile spaces.

Not to mention,, bro said they did not care about the fact that being pushed out of my own community ended in me getting literally sexually abused as a child, so u sure you REALLY care about the safety of them, or do you just not want "uu annoying baby fetuses" (aka regular fucking people who just happen to be a different age) pressing a button on your post on tumblr dot com?

Like you're not just gonna push hundreds of paraphiles out of support spaces just because you can't separate "hey! U deserve to live" and "hey! Corpse penis"

And even if they did see your horny posting, THEY'RE GONNA REGARDLESS? Tumblr has and will continue to show posts to people regardless of their age, you still have to take the same precautions regardless of if all minor paraphiles kill themselves or not. Heck the amount of times I saw unwanted nudes on here as a teen is crazy, you aren't stopping anything from pushing people out of their own community.

Even then though I bet you don't actually think they're paraphiles anyway, you're probably one of those "nobody ever gets any hormones that make them horny until they turn 18 ever, ESPECIALLY during puberty, and if they do they should be hung because they're OBVIOUSLY adults pretending to be a kid to rape them" (which,, ??????)

In conclusion, yes it's fine to have some spaces that are adult only but you're not helping ANYTHING trying to make sure every paraphile under 18 doesn't get support