#pathological demand avoidance

[autball]

A kind of subset of self-regulation skills (which I posted about yesterday) is frustration tolerance. It’s another popular recommendation for ND kids that *sounds* like a very worthwhile goal. If your kid is frustrated and acting out all the time, getting them to tolerate frustration better sure seems like it would solve a lot of problems.

Here’s the thing about that: you don’t get better at feeling frustrated by spending more time being frustrated. You just get more fucking frustrated. And just like with the attempts to “teach” self-regulation skills, all you’re gonna get is someone who gets better at *pretending* not to be frustrated OR someone who lashes out more because you won’t stop frustrating the shit out of them.

Being “easily frustrated” is a problem, yes. But what you’re really looking for isn’t frustration tolerance, it’s frustration *management.* And that is a team effort, not solely the responsibility of the person who’s always feeling frustrated.

[dykesynthezoid]

Need Pathological Demand Avoidance to become more well known and talked about for a lot of reasons but one of them is bc I need rabbinical takes on how having a nervous system literally organized around reacting to any and all perceived threats to autonomy impacts the approach to halacha. Right now we have one (1) Rabbi regularly talking about it and that’s it lol

[cancerstanople]

What to do if you have a demand you desperately need to fulfill and you can't:

Make up a shitty little character in your head to give you the exact opposite demand, so you can avoid THAT demand while getting done what you need to get done. "Do not brush your teeth." Fuck you Janet, I'm gonna do what I want.

Make up a story that would reframe the task at hand as an act of rebellion or spite. "I live in a world where showering is illegal and if I get caught I'm going to jail for a thousand years."

Use that task to procrastinate on other tasks. "I've got homework I really need to do...hey I haven't done my laundry in a while."

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

10 Signs of 'Pathological Demand Avoidance (AKA Persistent Drive for Autonomy)

Neurodivergent_lou

[existennialmemes]

[autism-affirmations]

[ditzydoodiary]

i feel really bad for saying this, but something i struggle with regarding my autism is trying to sound interested in other people's interests. i try so hard to seem interested because i know that feeling of being ignored when infodumping about your interests, but also, my own interests are so restricted that i cant get into/seem interested in anyone elses interests.

i cant get into things people recommend me, at all, no matter how hard i actually want to because it just feels like a demand. i also cant get into anything else even if i myself really want to get into it. especially if someone else's interests involve anything with real humans. cant watch anything thats live action, it needs to be animated and usually has to involve animals in some way.

[julia970]

Backwards

A demon that craves the control of a halo.

An angel that is fighting against its halo.

A doll that can still move on its own.

A puppet that doesn't feel the control of its strings.

A witch that is admired by her dolls, but wishes that she were one of them.

[ohara-n-brown]

Saying 'You're not lazy if you want to do the thing. Choosing not to do it because you don't want to it's laziness-'

Still throws Autistic people with Pathological Demand Avoidance under the bus

Executive Dysfunction is not the end all be all and you are not better than others for 'wanting to do' the thing but being unable to.

There are many autistic people that find themselves unable to do something once their minds has decided that it's being forced to do an action.

Saying that if you don't want to do your homework or the chores or the laundry - then you are lazy - DOESN'T HELP

It's not that I want to shower but I can't get up. It's that I DON'T want to shower because I feel like I HAVE to or else I'll be ridiculed for not doing it.

It's something that helps me, but knowing I HAVE to do it today, and tomorrow, and the day after that, on end with no choice of my own - makes me genuinely want to avoid the act.

'if you were lazy you would be having fun' - that implies that if we ignore a challenging task we don't want to do in order to do something self soothing and fruitful we are lazy.

That it's a moral failing instead of a sign the person needs help starting, or motivating themselves, or understanding the task.

Of course if something is hard, or confusing, and time consuming - someone won't want to do it. ESPECIALLY if they're disabled.

Calling them lazy for that isn't okay. You're just throwing other disabled people under the bus.

You and your executive dysfunction are no better just because you 'want' to do the laundry but can't.

Or that you're not lazy but we are because you really really wish you could wash the dishes meanwhile I really really wish I could throw myself down a hole rather than complying with a forceful demand - no matter how small. Including someone asking me to wash the dishes.

We still have do those things just like people without PDA.

The only difference is we're still called lazy at every turn despite the fact that every demand feels like being held at gunpoint with no choice.

Just because you want to something doesn't make you 'not lazy'.

Laziness DOESN'T EXIST.

If you have PDA, and find it hard to do ANYTHING you don't want to do - I love you. You are not lazy. You're trying your best. Keep going.

CAN WE STOP WITH THE LAZY STUFF NOW

[jokingmaiden]

why yes, i DO want to engage in an activity i enjoy solely for the sake of enjoying it. but unfortunately, my brain heard me say “i want to do [thing]” and took personal offense to the idea of being told what to do as if my desires are some kind of command, and now i’m paralyzed on my bed begging my body to do literally anything

[autisticdreamdrop]

fr PDA is tough

[autball]

You, all right?! I learned it by watching you!

ETA:

“Are you saying that we should just accept this kind of behavior from a child??” No, I am not.

“Are you saying we can never use any kind of consequence even for safety reasons??” Also no. I myself have to use the one about the ball (and other objects) somewhat frequently. (The other three are kinda bullish!t, though.)

What I AM saying is that if your kid comes at you with something like this, they didn’t get it from nowhere.

They’re not a budding psychopath, this is not a “lack of empathy,” it’s just a simple bit of logic: Adults threaten me with something upsetting in order to get me to do what they want, so I guess that’s what people do to get what they want.

We as adults come up with a whole bunch of reasons why “it’s different when I do it!” We’re the adults, we know better, it’s a health/safety issue, it’s our job, blah blah blah. But when you have a kid who doesn’t see why things like age or status should matter when it comes to who is allowed to do what to whom (which is not uncommon with neurodivergent kids), none of that really matters. What matters is that, from their perspective, you are threatening something painful in order to control them, and they feel it’s only fair to give that right back.

So what are you supposed to do if this happens? First off, don’t panic. Don’t make moral judgments about their character, don’t flash forward to them in prison in ten years, none of that stuff. Remind yourself that they’re just mirroring what they see, and that they can still be guided in a different direction. (Collaborative parenting approaches that don’t rely on consequences are great for this.)

Also remember that, just like most people, they’re not actually able to think clearly when they’re this upset. People who feel out of control start looking for ways to feel in control again (which is why so many adults resort to threatening consequences to get compliance, BTW), and that’s what this is. You can help the situation by learning to de-escalate instead of coming right back at them with even bigger controlling energy.

Some kids will be WAAYYY more influenced by what’s being modeled for them than they ever will be by what they’re told. If you’ve got one of those, make sure you spend some time looking in the mirror and at other things/people they’re exposed to before launching into a lecture on what is and isn’t “acceptable behavior.”

[dykesynthezoid]

Santos is so constantly-in-fight-mode PDA autism coded she’s like why would I need to consult with a higher authority to do my (extremely important & dangerous) job tho…. “acts in accordance with own internal agenda” indeed. Yesterday I experienced true physical outrage bc my web browser switched to dark mode without my permission. I get her ass idc

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

What is PDA?

Mrs Speechie P

[phleb0tomist]

pathological demand avoidance in autism is wild. my body will be like “i need the bathroom” and my brain will be like “ok” but then my nervous system will be like “i perceive this as a threat so now i’m systematically going through all the evolutionary adrenaline responses”