#problematic sources

[multiplicity-positivity]

Hi! any idea of how to deal with learning your source and/or source creator is a bad person?

its a sad thing weve had to go through a couple of times, but still arent quite sure what were supposed to do. its specifically something we take fairly hard as well, because the creator is often apart of a large comfort or hyperfixation or special interest. anyway, i was just wondering if you had any tips at all.

Hello. While we personally have not had much firsthand experience with having an alter whose source turned out to be a bad person, we do have some advice that might be beneficial for you during this difficult time.

First: it’s alright to mourn or grieve the loss of someone you and your system once looked up to. It’s alright to feel hurt or betrayed when someone you thought was a kindhearted person turns out to not have others’ best interests at heart. There are no wrong feelings. It’s alright to be sad or even distraught about this. We’d encourage you to feel your emotions and attempt to connect with them, sit with them, and ultimately, let them go. Letting go of emotions without allowing yourself to feel them can be difficult and challenging - it’s probably best to spend some time sitting with your negative emotions before attempting to dismiss them.

Second: It may be reassuring to remember that, as introjects, we are not literally our sources. Just because our sources made bad decisions or chose to take advantage of someone else does not mean we are doomed to repeat those mistakes. We are capable of learning from our sources, it’s true, and even acknowledging their mistakes as examples of how we can lead our lives a bit differently. And we can do this without repeating the actions of our sources or convincing ourselves that, because our source is/was harmful, we are harmful as well.

Third: If knowing your source is harmful/committed violence or bigotry greatly distresses you, and if you are struggling to distance yourself from your source and/or feel like YOU are responsible for your source’s actions, some degree of source separation may be necessary. I (Cecil) have written my thoughts on source separation in the past, and I will link this post here so you can learn more about our experience with source separation if you think it might be useful.

Please keep in mind that you do not have to completely and totally separate from your source in order to view them in a healthy, more distanced way. You can still identify as or strongly with your source while simultaneously acknowledging that you are your own person and are not responsible for the actions, thoughts, and decisions of your source.

Fourth: In general, not just with introjects, we do believe it is possible to separate a creator’s work from the creator themself. If we find out that an artist we admired was taking advantage of someone else or otherwise caused irreparable harm to others, we will stop engaging with their content in ways that benefit the artist, but that doesn’t mean we have to give up enjoying that artist’s work entirely. We may become more critical of their work. We may try to explore other creators who aren’t as… problematic. And we will certainly stop supporting that artist, be it through purchases, subscriptions, or views. But that doesn’t mean we have to cut their works out of our lives forever. So we firmly believe it is possible to continue enjoying or engaging with your system’s hyperfixations and special interests. You may just need to find ways to do so that do not support or benefit the harmful creator in question.

I do apologize that this post got a bit rambly and long-winded. Please let us know if there is anything more we can do to help you. Thank you for your time, and take care.

[stars-sakuras-and-heartbreaks]

Ffs. Now I know why I’ve been in front - god. Fucking shit. Fuck. Can people really not fucking shut their mouths for five goddamned seconds? The gay softboy TomTord fanfiction is not going to fucking hurt you if you leave it alone. Fuck. Shit. Fuck. God, fucking Starboy was in his room in headspace fucking sobbing - it wasn’t even from that fucking post we just saw, it was from literally the past three fucking days when he’d gone to re-read the fic and fucking saw literally ALL THESE FUCKING HATE COMMENTS - some of which used fucking slurs.

Christ’s fucking sake. Fuck. I think I’m going to go feed us some strawberries and hope that cheers him up (as we do not have cherries, his actual favourite fruit.)

-🔞

[hilacopter]

the amount of people who shut down any argument with "i ain't reading all that" or "shut up (insert problematic term here)" and think it makes them look intelligent and mature

[funeral--pyre]

Got bored and made a thing. "Problematic" is however you define it or see others defining it, seeing as it's a vague as fuck term anyway. Be free, creatures.

[laurelwen]

Daddy Issues in Like Minds: Sally and Martin Edition

As a fandom, we have extensively discussed Alex and Nigel and their daddy issues from a number of different angles. The other day I was considering this central theme and the post I made about it here: The Sins of the Father.

It occurred to me that both Sally and Martin are also caught in the same trap, unable to escape the legacy of their own fathers.

Martin McKenzie:

By inheriting his profession from his father, he is in some ways simply a copy of his own dad, following the same path and attempting to follow his dad's moral and professional code. At the same time, he also inherits membership in the Order and the expectations that come with it. When Dr. Forbes presses him to release Alex, those expectations come into play. Dr. Forbes chides him for not following along with the script, as his father would have done. Martin asserts that his father would have done his job properly, abiding by the rule of law. In the end, it's not clear which of them has the correct assessment of Daddy McKenzie, and given what we know of the Order, I think either thing could be true--or both are.

While Martin chooses to adhere to his faith in his father's sense of duty to the law, either way he chooses, he's still caught up in Daddy McKenzie's legacy--and perhaps, his sins. Ian's confidence that Martin would help a fellow Brother indicates that this IS a standard practice among members of the Order. The way he phrases it even suggests that he personally knew Daddy McKenzie and perhaps had examples of Dad's past behavior as his basis for the assumption and the belief that Martin would behave similarly. Martin might have an idealized version of his father up on a pedestal when it is entirely plausible and even probable that the man was guilty of bending and breaking the law to aid the brotherhood.

Is Martin upholding or subverting his father's real legacy? Can Ian presume to know the son by the actions of the father? In the end, Martin renounces membership in the Order, but does he actually escape his father's sins? Isn't he just as willing to bend the law to suit his own purposes? He takes an immediate disliking to Alex, decides that Alex is guilty, and charges him with no solid evidence to avoid having to let him go. He calls Sally in and pressures her to "find him culpable". This is a gross undermining of the due process of law. He won't break the rules for the sake of the brotherhood, but he has already broken them extensively for his own purposes. He has deluded himself into a self-righteous belief in his own ethical rectitude, but he merely repeats his own father's sins in the service of a different cause. Perhaps that IS his father's true legacy...and sin.

Sally Rowe:

We're given much less material to work with pertaining to Sally and her father, but the key piece of info we do get feels very illuminating. When Sally is trying to go home and her car won't start, she opens the hood herself and tinkers with what seems to be the distributor cap*. From her lack of hesitation and confidence in pulling the cap off, we can guess she's had this problem before and fixed it herself. Dr. Forbes offers assistance and they have a brief exchange in which she explains that she inherited a passion for difficult cars from her dad.

Sally's dad imparted both a knowledge and a love of cars, including a particular fondness for types that are prone to frequent mechanical problems. She doesn't just have an interest in these cars, it's a "passion" for them. One can surmise this was a pastime they shared as a bonding activity, Sally shadowing her dad as he fixed the latest problem in his favorite car. One might be tempted to say that Daddy Rowe's legacy then was one of empowerment for his daughter, encouraging her to occupy traditional male spaces and giving her the skills to solve issues that most people need to pay a skilled professional to handle.

I think this trait gives us a window into Sally's psyche far beyond just an automobile hobby. Her passion for "difficult" cars--cars that break down frequently, cars that are tricky, unreliable, and temperamental, cars that can turn on you and leave you stranded a hundred miles from home--feels like a character trait that applies to more than just cars. It gives us a window into the inner forces that led her to choose a career in forensic psychology. Her job duties entail a careful examination of "difficult" people in order to diagnose problems and offer an assessment to law enforcement to determine legal next steps. Sally is effectively opening the hood and tinkering around with the complex human mind to determine the functional status of each patient.

A piece of advice from a practicing forensic psychologist to those who are considering the career:

You have to be able to convey your thinking into well-written, well integrated, and professional reports that will be read by judges, attorneys, clients, and other professionals involved in the case. You need to have a complex understanding of personality adjustment, psychological assessment, the law and the legal process, the relevant literature, and be attuned to one’s limitations in forming opinions.

I find the last portion particularly relevant here. While her instincts led her to choose this profession, they also present a type of limitation to her ability to objectively assess patients. She doesn't just want to fix a car when it breaks, she has a "passion" for the ones that break down often. Most people would want to get rid of a car that had frequent issues, deeming them more trouble than they are worth. But Sally is drawn to problematic cars--and people. There is a subjectivity inherent to her interest in the cars/people with frequent problems which drives her to remain attached when others would give them up as a lost cause.

This trait underlies her entire interaction with Alex, and I think it plays a major role in her downfall. In this post, I examine all the ways that Martin and Alex are very much alike. I would also suggest that their similarity is why Sally was/is drawn to both of them. We know Sally and Martin were previously in a relationship, though that has ended prior to the film's events. Regardless, Martin demonstrates that he at least still knows Sally well enough to push her buttons and enlist her help with his cause. Upon meeting her, Alex immediately starts to probe this woman in an attempt to find her weak spots so he can manipulate her for his own ends. Sally has a similar reaction to both of them, essentially conveying that she sees through their patently obvious attempts to influence her. Her ability to recognize their problematic behavior doesn't actually stop her from caving to their wishes--she cannot resist the "difficult" cars.

It seems likely that most others in her position would have given up on Alex after hearing even a part of his frankly preposterous claims, deeming him beyond the point of any repair. Sally is blind to her own limitations - the tenacious to a fault need to figure out the problem and fix it - and this impedes her ability to remain objective. Her satisfaction at solving the problem is on display as she presents her analysis to her peers--she basks in the pleasure of diagnosing this complex psychological dynamic and preens at the recognition she receives for it. And with poetically perfect timing, while she stands at the highest point in her professional career, Alex reveals that she has been deeply deceived. All her satisfaction at having solved the problem and "fixing the car" comes crashing down in the realization that she was so very wrong. The instincts instilled by her father, rippling outwards from this simple hobby into her personal and professional life, are what cause her downfall.

In Like Minds, there is no escaping your father's legacy.

[*Distributor cap source: I was raised in a family of mechanics including my own father, and I have pulled off a distributor cap to check the cap and the spark plugs when my car was having trouble starting. Feel free to look up pics of the distributor caps to verify my assertion (you won't).]

[Like Minds Masterpost - Main]

[probably-catherine-clover]

[anna-croft]

theres a sore lack of hsy selfcest in the orv fandom

[rq-slotmachine]

Btw if you're a problematic kin or introject you deserve to get sucked sloppy. in fact I volunteer

[shitty-proendo-blackout-posts]

urine, piss urine piss

[system-role-flags]

Hi! Please can I request a problematic source introject flag? And if the stripes could be vertical rather than horizontal or something fun like that, that would be great. Add a dinosaur or something, have fun with it :)

Thank you

-sirius

🌈Problematic Source Introject Flag🍭

A flag for introjects who have problematic sources

…. I like the dinosaurs…. I did have fun with this …

[coffinofjulia]

I guess this is an introduction post...!

Ah, hello there, everyone... ha, I'm not that used to talking yet, so sorry if this is kinda awkward...

I'm Julia. From The Coffin of Andy and Leyley! A little sad tumblr just has orange text, not yellow ah well.... I think I'm mostly here out of our host's... sometimes unwillingness to see red flags to be loved by others, and also some paranoid thoughts about the idea a friend might've passed... guess it all came at once.

I'm... kind of newly formed and figuring things out, so taking after some other members of the system, I decided to make a blog! Maybe... try to talk a bit about memories and stuff?

I... don't judge people based on source stuff like the rest of the system, so if anyone wants to talk it doesn't matter who you are. I really want to be able to talk to people from my own canon too! It might... help, or be good, I think. I-I believe this was taken out of context. A-and that might be on me, because I didn't word it very well... our system, the Stardust System, d-does not judge based on source material at all! O-our entire system, while sometimes not having the same opinion, all believe in the "ship and let ship" and "don't judge people based on what they like!" aspects of proship philosophy! I-I'm proship too! I... more than that, all of us do not judge you based on your sources!

So, yes... Julia Lamb (until we get a last name... but also I really like it so I might just keep it even if we get a canon last name...). About 20 mentally, 30+ physically. Other affiliated blogs are @aqours main and @tcoaal (her sideblog for tcoaal and proship things)! I-I guess for anyone outside of the fandom you should really keep that in mind with approaching us... also ✞ and 🩷💛💙 (pansexual) if that affects anything!!!

So... ah, yeah, it's a! Pleasure to meet you! Maybe I'll share my own thoughts on theories and headcanons too outside of @/tcoaal too!

Art credit for blog header art!

[problematicfactive]

If your "Introject friendly" space isn't friendly to introjects of people you don't like your space is not inroject friendly and you need ti rebrand it

If your "Introject friendly" space allows for people to negatively talk about introjects they don't like even if they aren't present in conversation your space is not introject friendly and you need to rebrand it

If your "Introject friendly" space has limits to what kind of introject you can be your space isn't inroject friendly and you need to rebrand it

If your "Introject friendly" space bans introjects for their sources your space is not introject friendly and you need to rebrand it

If your "Introject friendly" space is inaccessible to factives your space is not introject friendly and you need to rebrand it

Factives exist and we are introjects too

[multiplicity-positivity]

Before i begin if this is too discourse-y i deeply apologize and understand if you need to delete this! I don't think it should be but I'm very bad about understanding what is or isn't. /gen

Why, is it so hard for headmates who have "problematic" sources to exist in other plural spaces, whether or not the introject/headmate ids with source or not?

Hazbin hotel/helluva, Harry Potter, etc. I can understand why one may not want to make content for it, but i feel like if i make content myself for us then i feel like I'll have people try to cancel me or bully me. When i already know its problematic and no way do i support the creators.

It just feels like now days people aren't allowed to like/enjoy things that are problematic while KNOWING its problematic because you either get lumped in with Haters Who Watch it and aren't actually critical just, hater bullies, or, people who love it sm they dont see flaws.

i guess tldr version is i hate that at least for ours/us , problematic introjects ( fictional or factives ) are supposed to just.. go into hiding or not use their names.

this did get a bit long and also a bit discoursey. but we really feel you here anon. our response is below the cut.

hey, we’re sorry, we know exactly what you’re talking about, but we do not have a good answer for you. it really is so unfortunate that introjects with problematic sources are so often scorned, cast aside, ignored, or unable to live their lives in ways which are affirming to them.

engaging with ““bad”” or problematic media doesn’t make you a bad person. thought crimes aren’t real. people are capable of consuming media without being like the people within the work and making the same choices. you’re allowed to like hazbin hotel or harry potter or whatever. literally it’s fine. some amount of critical thinking may be necessary (for example, enjoying hp while understanding the author’s bigotry and how that may have influenced the work), but again, consuming problematic media is fine. besides, engaging with media with problematic themes may be cathartic for a lot of people and can even help folks come to terms with their own pasts and trauma histories.

we’re huge proponents of do no harm, take no shit, ie consuming problematic media doesn’t harm anyone. but engaging in harmful or problematic behavior does, so check yourself, and be open to being called out if consuming certain things has influenced you to start acting in harmful ways. as an example of this, our system really loves breaking bad. a character on that show says “bitch” a lot, and that got incorporated into our own lexicon. it was on us though to learn how to curb our language and when it was and wasn’t appropriate to use that word. that doesn’t mean we can no longer enjoy breaking bad. it just means that we have to be cognizant about how the media we love has been influencing us.

but when introjects are involved, people seriously need to understand that these system members are not literally their sources, even if they are extremely source connected. introjects (and we do mean all introjects, not just fictives!) with problematic sources are real. they exist in the real world, and they deserve to be treated as people and respected as equals, not as discourse points or something that exists in theory but not in real life. a hazbin hotel introject making fanart or writing fanfic of their source does not benefit the creator of the original work in any way, and should not be a reflection on that introject or their system’s character. and quite frankly it is no one else’s business how an introject chooses to engage with their source.

we do think that introjects whose source is a real person who committed atrocities or caused grave harm should absolutely keep their source’s victims in mind when they discuss their source in order to be respectful towards other real people who have been harmed. but we believe that just takes cognizance and self awareness with a willingness to center compassion and respect for others and primarily victims of your source in the ways you engage with it publicly.

idk we could go on about this for much longer but in the end:

1. it’s okay to enjoy problematic or flawed media. it’s okay to make fan works for said media. you’re not supporting the original artists or creators by enjoying their flawed work and making fan works of your own.

2. introjects need to be treated as people with rights and agency first and foremost, even if they are incredibly source attached. that means they should have the agency to use their own names or appearances and identifying how they wish. it’s their lives, after all.

3. people in general and especially in the plural community should strive to be more understanding towards introjects, many of which did not get to choose their source, many of which may have complicated relationships with their source, and none of which need to be lectured or preached at about how their source is harmful. like. chances are, they already know.

idk. sorry if this is messy or all over the place, feel free to reach out if you need any clarification or have further questions. introjects with problematic sources will always be welcome on our blog, no questions asked. and we hope to help cultivate a plural community which is kinder and more understanding towards introjects of all stripes.

[writeitinsharpie]

gdi why did the queer video essayist i liked turn out to be a plagerizer

[royalich]

Lace, possessed and speaking directly to Rook: You took everything from us, and you thought you won. But we're still here. We will endure. In spite of you.

Lucanis: 😌🙂‍↕️😌🙂‍↕️

Spite, from behind Lucanis' eye: 😂😈👹

Rook: 😐🫥😶‍🌫️

Solas, from behind Rooks eye: ✌️🙂😔

[getvalentined]

Okay so the FF7 fandom is having a meltdown and I gotta talk about it. See, the Rebirth Ultimania came out yesterday in Japan, and one specific piece of information has people freaking out.

[source]

This is, apparently, beyond the pale. People are insisting that it doesn't make sense, it's a retcon, it doesn't align with the games at all, et cetera, with a lot of people specifically citing Before Crisis as proof that this can't possibly be correct. After all, Elena is in her last year at Shinra's military academy in the game, and the academy is structured like a high school, meaning she'd be 17-18 during her Before Crisis appearance.

The issue here is that the majority of people don't actually know the timing of the aforementioned appearance. Because Before Crisis starts in 0001 and Elena is in it, people seem to assume that means she's in it from the beginning. This isn't the case at all.

In its entirety, Before Crisis is 24* chapters long—Elena appears in Chapter 22, specifically with her appearance starting on October 4th, 0007. (*In spite of technically being broken in 24 chapters by title, Before Crisis is actually 26 chapters by presentation, with two of them split into two parts.)

Meteorfall took place January 21st, 0008. We know this because the date is visible on the monument in Edge shown in Advent Children:

This means Elena's introduction in Before Crisis was less than four months before Meteorfall.

These portraits are months apart. She cut her hair and got out of the school uniform, but her face is completely unchanged; it's easy to say this was to lower artist workload, but the dates in-game are very specific.

The new Ultimania literally just reiterated information we've already had since around 2006. This has been canon for almost 20 years—it's not a retcon, it's not a "weird new decision," it's not another case of the Ultimania timelines contradicting the actual source material. This has been confirmed in-game as canon for longer than a lot of current players have even been alive.

I don't care what people do with this information, mind you. I don't care who you ship Elena with or anything like that, it's irrelevant to me. I don't care about age gaps or what the fuck ever, she's a pixel doll, do what you want with her.

But this isn't new. And everyone freaking out about it as if it isn't information we've had for so long that the game in which it was revealed is older than the character is kind of ridiculous.

I am begging you, do not cite sources with which you are not familiar in an attempt to make your assertions carry more weight. There are nasty people out there who will take your ignorance on the topic and use it to be even worse than they could have if you just stated that her canon age makes you uncomfortable so you portray her as being older and don't care that it's noncanon.

(Also, seeing the same people who declared that only the Ultimanias are correct even if they contradict the games or each other, now flipping to declaring this specific Ultimania to be wrong because "it's just meta" is indescribably frustrating. Sephiroth being 30 in-game was something the Ultimanias "fixed," but Elena being 18 in-game is something that the Ultimania has "screwed up." Pick one.)