#rape discussion cw

[ladyloveandjustice]

going on the ANN forums is always a damn mistake but it's a mistake i keep making jesus christ.

[rotationalsymmetry]

I remember in particular one fanfic I read where a character got raped and was very justifiably under the circumstances imo afraid of retaliation if she told anyone, and only did so reluctantly, and the person she told went into savior mode and got revenge on the rapist (rapists? don’t remember) in spite of the person who was raped not wanting that (due to the fear of escalation/retaliation) and this was presented as a good thing and gahhhhh.

[aimfor-theheart]

Why is it that dc such as r@pe, sa, and incest is totally okay to write about and romanticize but y’all draw the line at racism, fat phobia, and homophobia *talking about the writings creators make, not personal beliefs*? Whats the difference between these things? All of them are hurtful and affect people in real life, so why is everybody on here choosing and picking one and not the other? Do writers on here think that they are not comparable or that one is okay to romanticize and the other is going way too far?

Im just genuinely curious as I have seen this topic be brought up again and again, which has made me realize this and Id like to see it from someone else's pov.

hi! there is a lot to answer and unpack here and i have every intention of doing so underneath the cut. forgive me if this gets long, but you’ve asked me 4 very massive questions that i think warrant detail, nuance, and thought. there is a lot i’d like to say here.

that being said, mind the content warnings and protect yourself.

cw: mentions of rape, incest, racism, homophobia, fat phobia, discourse in general

firstly, i am going to choose to give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are actually curious in hearing another side and you are not simply looking to stir a pot or pick a fight with beliefs you have no intention of changing or having an open discussion on. your accusatory tone in the first half indicates otherwise and kindly, i am not an idiot. but i want to earnestly talk to you about this and again, will think better of you than you perhaps have indicated you think of me.

secondly, you do not have to censor words like rape in my inbox. that sort of censorship has become wildly popular because of tik tok and other money-hungry social media that also desperately want to silence people. do you know why you have to censor words like that on tik tok? or words like genocide? suicide? racism? 1. so that they can make money and market and push their squeaky clean algorithms but 2. and perhaps worse, so they can silence victims. if social media platforms and capitalism and the systems of powers had it their way, you would never utter these words again—whether to call someone out for justice or to have an open discussion like this one. i encourage you greatly to think critically about this and how you choose to use censorship and why.

now, to your questions.

to preface, i am interpreting this ask as being anti-dark content in fiction as you state that ALL these subjects harm people in real life. or at least, you are being critical of all dark content in fiction and the way writers engage with them, effectively ‘picking and choosing’ which are deemed acceptable and which aren’t, when they are all hurtful. i apologize if that wasn’t your intention/what you believe, but regardless, i’ll endeavor to answer you.

i personally have drawn no lines about dark content nor spoken about any of these topics specifically really, which indicates to me you have a different narrative and/or are coming from more inflammatory arguments that are always circling fandom lately. in the post i most recently reblogged, i spoke mostly of violence. which, of course, all of those things can be. but i didn’t name one of those topics in particular.

regardless, i don’t believe in the censorship of any dark content in art, but rather advocate strongly for critical analysis on a case-by-case basis. in general, i encourage thinking critically about every aspect of the world around you.

i do not believe that rape, incest, and sa are okay to write about or create art about but racism, homophobia, and fat phobia are not. i believe all of those topics are ones that can, should, and will be explored in the safety of art. all to varying degrees of success, earnestness, impact, and intent. you’re right that these are real things, that can hurt people, and the fictional work about them can have impact on our society that is tangible but the actual art or fiction created is not real. and again, this is all to varying degrees on a case-by-case basis.

art and fiction also historically and massively do discuss these dark content topics and have actively swayed the public’s opinion on matters, whether for better or for worse. throwing away all dark content in art and fiction because it is ‘harmful’ is deeply, deeply dangerous and reductive. a lot of art that engages with dark content actually makes very succinct points about it—i think of vladimir nabokov’s lolita or octavia butler’s bloodchild or speak by laurie halse anderson.

this is where we must exorcise critical thinking. some pieces of work will handle dark content poorly—white saviors making art on racism. men making art about a woman’s experiences that (as you are so interested in) romanticize her pain. etc. etc. and some art will handle it’s dark content incredibly and be transformative, perhaps even revolutionary in how we talk, perceive, or acknowledge systems of oppression, violence, and dark content in this world. some dark content in fiction will have damaging beliefs and effects on society, some will not—we must also look at scope for this, at the writer perhaps, the historical moment, their audience etc.

(for example, there is a significant difference in a main stream male writer, writing of a woman’s experience with rape in a published book in a way that makes it sound romanticized, sold to thousands and thousands of general public vs. a woman using fanfic to explore rape, take control of it, or whatever in a fanfic for a small online community where there are warnings on it. indicating she is aware of its potential damage in a way her male counterpart is not…)

but i still believe in dark contents’ existence in art. of course there is differences between all of these topics you brought up, but i don’t think their differences matter in this answer. i believe in their right to be explored in art. i am talking broadly of media/art here, which i think is the more relevant conversation, but i think you are actually more interested in a much smaller scale of people. ie. fandom. ie. mostly marginalized people in small communities online writing and creating dark content.

people will choose and pick which ones they’d like to create art over and which ones they don’t, which ones they read and which ones they don’t. there’s no ‘hard line’ drawn anywhere. and i can’t control it and neither can you. perhaps you think violence is okay to be explored in fanfic, but racism isn’t. someone else will have different preferences. i do not believe in its censorship.

now, let’s move onto your interest in romanticization and what i think you are more pointing to, which is fandom. you are specifically referring to people in fandom who write about rape, incest, etc. and ‘romanticize’ it—ie. they write about it in a way that is a fantasy. it is perhaps supposed to be horny or sexy. so let’s talk about it.

i must remind you that these topics you’ve brought up (rape, incest, sa) being written are fiction and it is (most often) done by someone marginalized who has either experienced this or is in threat of experiencing this under a patriarchy. i assure you, they are aware of its harm. hence the copious warnings in fandom spaces.

if i can be candid, sometimes i think that people forget how systems of oppression work when discussing fandom and whether dark content being created should be allowed or not.

for example, i sometimes think people who are anti-dark content in fandom believe that a woman or afab person writing a fictional fanfic about rape or sexual violence then influences people to go out and rape people or that women actually like it. when the reality, in fandom spaces, is that rape and sexual violence happen frequently under the patriarchy and then these women in fandom write fictional fanfic in response to cope, explore, take control of, etc. etc.

to insinuate that women or afab people (which fandom mostly is) exploring dark content safely in fiction then causes their own oppression and harm or trauma is rather victim-blame-y to me. fandom exploring dark content does not cause these things to happen in our society….these actions (rape, incest, sa) happen in our society or systems of power and fandom reacts to them in their art by exploring it in dark content. do you understand what i’m trying to say?

it’s not a matter of what is ‘okay’ to romanticize and what isn’t. i do not think the romanticization that fandom does with dark content (ie. my kidnapper actually loves me! or this sexual act that i did not consent to…maybe feels good) is not actually romanticizing but coping because of the systems of power that i described above. and this can be coping with anything—shame of sexuality, shame of fantasies, trauma, fear, etc. etc.

as i said in my tags in that post i reblogged and as plato said, dark content in art is a safe place to explore what would otherwise be harmful and dangerous in real life. it is cathartic. potentially even, a purging.

and even if it isn’t all that—maybe it just is trashy fantasy. it is still playing pretend. it is still fiction and in fandom spaces, it is still most likely being created by a marginalized person. and again, even if it isn’t, we don’t get to censor it. we can be critical of it or wary or whatever, but to censor it, is a slippery, slippery slope. do deem some topics as “acceptable” and others as “unacceptable” is dangerous.

just like kids play pretend where they ‘fight’ or ‘kill’ or ‘kidnap’ or ‘shoot’ each other in games of cops and robbers or heroes and villains, they are safely exploring adventure, dark content, fantasy, tragedy, and higher emotions. adults can do the same in fiction and with adult topics like sex.

and at the end of the day, we don’t get to demand the credentials to do so either. we don’t get to censor them or control them and nor should we be allowed to. i cannot stress enough that i encourage you to be critical of censorship or the absolute disgust in dark content and at those (again—often marginalized people) who engage with it in fandom. i believe it is deeply puritanical, conservative, and dangerous.

you don’t have to like dark content or consume it at all and fandom makes it easy not to with all the warnings and tags, but you cannot control others or police them. nor should you want to.

and at the end of the day, i have some questions for you. you don’t have to respond to this, perhaps they’re just things to think about. what is the end goal here? what is the point in harassing, shaming, attacking, criticizing, or interrogating people in fandom spaces who create or support dark content? do you believe that if it is purged from fandom, it will be purged from our society? if you want it purged from society—shouldn’t you start there rather than in the inbox of marginalized writers in fandom? people in fandom did not create rape, incest, and sa nor do they in their exploration of fiction…they are merely reacting to a world that did create it.

i hope at no point i came off as rude to you, as was not my intention. i intended to stand up for myself and respectfully state my opinions and thoughts on this matter. i’m sorry it got long, but also i don’t believe in being brief on such complex matters. i am a writer who engages critically with the world around me and sometimes, things cannot be made into short, snappy answers. sometimes, we must unpack.

genuinely wishing you well.

[eerna]

in a world filled with books written by male authors that make me go "uhhhhh this writer does Not have a good outlook on masculinity and women, this was definitely written by a man", the Chaos Walking trilogy stands as a complete opposite where I spent the entire series being like "WOW I never really thought about masculinity in this way, WOW this is painting a really interesting picture of gender dynamics and generational relationships, this was definitely written by a man"

[nebulouscoffee]

The thing about Kai Winn's storyline ultimately being a tragedy is, it's not only a tragedy because her fate (in the eyes of the non-linear Prophets) was already known and nothing she did or said was ever going to make them acknowledge her- not only because she wanted so badly to have a big role to play in the grand, historic story of the newly independent Bajor and just couldn't handle the fact that she was never meant to- not only because the Prophets spoke to Sisko and Bareil and Kira and literally even Quark but not her- not only because she was deceived and raped and killed in the end- but most of all because, it was partly her love of Bajor that killed her.

Think about it- her whole regression during that final arc with Dukat is so tragic precisely because she was THIS close to redemption! Throughout the show, we see that her brain processes information in very rigid, binary ways: if you are not my ally, then you are my enemy. If you disagree with even one of my opinions, you are my enemy. If you refuse to endorse and support me in this mission, you are my enemy. That's part of why she's so easily swayed by fascist rhetoric, I think- she's just unable to cope with nuance. (This is foreshadowed in 'Shakaar', where she puts the whole of Bajor under martial law just because Shakaar disagreed with her over how she was handling soil reclamators.) Her personal narrative is I am the one who will save Bajor -> anyone who gets in my way is my enemy and therefore an enemy of Bajor -> I must stop them using any force necessary for the good of Bajor because I am after all the one who will save Bajor.

But when Sisko discovers the city of B'hala in 'Rapture', she is for the first time forced to accept the truth that he really hasn't been faking this whole "talks to the Prophets" thing- he's the real deal. We learn later on (when she tells "Anjohl" about how she honestly felt nothing the first time she saw the wormhole open) that a small, small part of her actually always doubted the existence of the Prophets. Now, she is faced with definitive proof that they are not only very real, but they also really do have a bond with Sisko. And for a while, she even comes to terms with this! In fact, at the end of the episode, she and Kira have possibly their first completely honest exchange:

KIRA: Maybe we're the ones who need to trust the Prophets. For all we know, this is part of their plan. Maybe they've told Captain Sisko everything they want him to know.  WINN: Perhaps. I suppose you heard that Bajor will not join the Federation today. The Council of Ministers has voted to delay acceptance of Federation membership.  KIRA: You must be very pleased.  WINN: I wish I were. But things are not that simple. Not anymore. Before Captain Sisko found B'hala, my path was clear. I knew who my enemies were. But now? Now nothing is certain.  KIRA: Makes life interesting, doesn't it?

Like, YASS babygirl- you too can learn to handle nuance!! I believe in you!!💪💪

And later on, at the onset of the Dominion War, she comes to Sisko for advice herself. She doesn't want to see her planet colonised again, and she's even willing to put aside her desire to be the main character to ensure it doesn't happen. Driven by pride and the need for power as she is, she is also driven by the desire save Bajor (and preferably be the one saving Bajor, which is the subsection of this desire that ultimately ends up being her downfall) - and she does briefly decide that cooperating with the Emissary is the best way to do this! I think about this scene from 'In The Cards' so much:

WINN: ... I have asked the Prophets to guide me, but they have not answered my prayers. I even consulted the Orb of Wisdom before coming here and it has told me nothing. So I come to you, Emissary. You have heard the voice of the Prophets. You were sent here to guide us through troubled times. Tell me what to do and I will do it. How can I save Bajor?  SISKO: You want my advice? Then this is it. Stall. Tell Weyoun you have to consult with the Council of Ministers, or that you have to meditate on your response. Anything you want, but you have to stall for time.  WINN: Time for what?  SISKO: I don't know. But I do know the moment of crisis isn't here yet, and until that moment arrives we have to keep Bajor's options open. I'm aware that this is difficult for you, given our past, but this time you have to trust me.  (Winn holds Sisko's left ear.)  WINN: Very well, Emissary. We put ourselves in your hands. May we all walk with the Prophets.

In the earlier seasons, Winn would often casually make claims that the Prophets had "told her" something, or that she was just "doing what the Prophets asked"- and her political position as Kai always allowed her to just lie about being in contact with them all the time. Now, you can see the sheer humility- the embarrassment, even- on her face as she (for the first time) openly admits to Sisko that she has never actually heard them speak before; and that they clearly "prefer" him. Yes, there's some (understandable imo) bitterness here- but not at him, at THEM. And when she tries to read his pagh at the end- something she probably does to dozens of people every day, most of whom would unquestioningly believe anything she declares afterwards- she doesn't even try to pretend she felt anything there. It's one of her most genuine moments in the whole show, you can just SEE the redemption arc in reach and it's so heartbreaking!!

I think 'The Reckoning' is a huge episode for her too, for many reasons- but let's talk about how it sets up this fascinating parallel between her and Kira (who Odo describes in this episode as having "both faith and humility"). The Prophets choose Kira as their "vessel" because she was "willing"- meanwhile, Winn was right there just begging to be a part of this! Here she is, with a Prophet right in front of her face- and she prays and postures and begs and prays some more, all just to get ignored. Kira's brand of faith is very, "I am ultimately insignificant and I surrender my power and my body and pagh to the Prophets"- Winn's is more, "if I do all the right things, then I will be able to prove to the Prophets that I am worthy of their attention, worthier than everyone else, and maybe then they'll appoint me the saviour of Bajor! It's My Destiny, You See!! (Why Isn't This Happening For Me??)" And the events of this episode are kind of a big slap in the face to her honestly, because they sort of prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Prophets have no interest in her. Maybe stopping the battle was also an attempt at regaining some kind of agency with them- I DID THIS, I pulled a switch and it had a direct effect on the Prophets, so there!! (Whatever that effect entails). She does care about Bajor. Of course she does. But her ideal configuration of Bajor involves her being a major player in its salvation, which she was just never meant to be. And this is why she's so tragically susceptible to Dukat's manipulation- he was the first person ever to tell her everything she always wanted to hear.

And the intriguing thing about Dukat's deception is, it doesn't all fall apart at one go. It falls apart in layers. And this makes for some excellent, excellent Winn characterisation imo.

First, she thinks the pah wraiths are the Prophets- and they tell her, hey, The Sisko has faltered, Bajor needs you, and only you can fix this. Good lord, imagine finally getting to hear those words after a lifetime of silence! And it's very telling that her first reaction isn't to gloat like she would've in the earlier seasons, but instead to humbly- even anxiously- pray. Bajor needs her, the "Prophets" have asked her to do something, this is her moment! Then, this random lovely Bajoran farmer comes in and tells her even more things she has always wanted to hear- that her activism during the Occupation (ignored by Kira and Sisko alike) saved lives, that he always wondered why the Prophets would choose an alien as their Emissary, that surely Sisko and his followers were mistaken- and finally, "our world will be reborn- with YOU as its leader". Sounds good, right? But THEN she finds out she's been speaking to the pah wraiths and the lovely farmer is a devil worshipper actually. And she tries the "wash away my sins" approach- she wants some kind of quick fix ritual that will "purify" her, so she can continue to be Kai the right way. She even admits to Kira that she's always been power hungry and she wants to change- and I believe her! Unfortunately, Kira then tells her something she doesn't want to hear- that she has to step down as Kai. And surely that can't be, right? She's the saviour of Bajor! She's so complex... it's not simply her love of power that this scene reveals imo, but more significantly, her inability to see herself as not a vital part of Bajor's history; of this whole larger narrative. Like-

WINN: I'm a patient woman. But I have run out of patience. I will no longer serve gods who give me nothing in return. "GIVE ME"!! ADAMI MY BESTIE MY GIRL MY BUDDY THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM!!!

So, okay, fine, now she's swayed over to the side that maybe the Prophets aren't that great, and maybe the pah wraiths are the true gods of Bajor (because they were willing to talk to her), and maybe she's okay working with the devil worshipper. But then it turns out he's DUKAT- and at this point, she's literally murdered someone, she's ready to stop this, to go back to Sisko and set things right- but then the book of the Kosst Amojan lights up because of the blood she spilled. She did that. It happened as a direct result of her actions. She's just so desperate to be acknowledged... to have a role to play in all this, no matter who offers it to her. So the pah wraiths actually giving her a reaction isn't something she can resist. And here's where things get even more tragic.

WINN: But the prophecies! They warn that the release of the Pah wraiths will mean the end of Bajor.  DUKAT: The old Bajor, perhaps. But from its ashes a new Bajor will arise and the Restoration will begin.  WINN: Who will be left to see it?  DUKAT: Those the gods find worthy. It will be the dawn of paradise. And you, Adami, are destined to rule it.  WINN: You're sure of that?  DUKAT: It is meant to be.

Again with the ease at which she's swayed by fascist rhetoric! Let's be clear, she was (and is) absolutely against the Cardassian Occupation. But her worldview is built on the pursuit of being "worthier" than everyone else, of being "closer to god" than everyone else- her expectation of faith is that it's some sort of determiner of who's doing it The Most Effectively, rather than it being a practice- and she just completely misses that any sort of plan that executes masses and spares whoever is deemed "worthy" is... literally exactly what people like Dukat did to her planet. Something something faith as competition, faith as determiner of inherent superiority, faith as a way to gain power via proximity to god… never faith as submission. And the worst part is she’s self-aware. It’s heartbreaking.

And it's about to get even more heartbreaking, because she truly believes she has arrived at her girlboss moment in the finale (I think the tragedy of her being a rape victim and knowing this and having to hide the body of the one (1) person who was looking out for her while being stuck with her rapist speaks for itself.) After kicking Dukat out on the street (lol), she studies the eeevil texts and realises that to set the pah wraiths free, you need to make a sacrifice. So now she gets to deceive him in return. And she does! The look of shock on his face when he discovers she poisoned him is priceless imo, and her triumph as she taunts his dead body, the sheer joy on her face as she casts off her Kai robes, when she recites those incantations and something actually happens- and that too such a large pyrotechnic spectacle- is so sad knowing what's coming. Because ultimately, the pah wraiths want to destroy Bajor, right? And Winn just doesn't. Of course they don't choose her. Of course they choose Dukat over her! She really thought that by tricking and murdering him, she'd made him the unimportant piece of the puzzle, that she was stealing back his thunder- but tragically, it turns out even the pah wraiths see her as disposable. Of course they resurrect Dukat (a man who's proved time and time again that he wants to see Bajor & Bajorans destroyed) and turn her into the sacrifice. The way she screams "NO!" here breaks my heart- she's betrayed her planet, and it was all for nothing. (Dukat's "are you still here?" is particularly devastating.) I think it's very significant that her final words are "Emissary, the book!"- it shows that in her last moments, she's owning her mistakes- she's stepping away from power and putting Bajor first, and leaving her own fate in the hands of the Prophets. Who, of course, once again ignore her, and choose to save Sisko instead. God.

The utter tragedy that even in the pah wraiths' plan, she was just a pawn. That she died at the hands of the gods she thought chose her, but used her, all while the gods she'd coveted her whole life stood by and did nothing. The Prophets chose Sisko because they believed he would put Bajor's interests over even his own- and now they ensure he will be back one day to see the new Bajor. She never will.

Yes, it was her pride that got her here. Her mean streak. Her inability to cope with nuance. Her inability to see herself as ultimately insignificant. Her inability to surrender to a higher power in any way that didn't involve becoming more powerful herself; more relevant, more "close to god". But it was also her love of Bajor. Because if she'd cared about Bajor less, then maybe the pah wraiths might have chosen her- or at least spared her, or taken her to their realm after she burned, the way they did with Dukat. Now, she ends up being the one thing she never wanted to be: insignificant.

Honestly if I had to summarise the tragedy of her arc in one sentence, it would probably be Kai Winn: Too Evil For The Prophets, Not Evil Enough For The Pah Wraiths. She and Dukat are not the same! She is a perfectly pathetic, sad and wet blorbo and I am holding her gently in my hands while apologising for her crimes <3

[verycharismaticdragon]

Okay, so I went a lil overboard with a reply to LBH criticism over at @controversial-blorbo-bracket, and I figure 4.5K words that probably should be put under a community label are a bit too much for a reblog, so I'm posting it separately.

CW for general discussion of sex, and for rape mention (assumption of rape is discussed and rebutted).

------

You know what, I was going to reply to this the usual way, you know, 'oh look at that, another person with surface level reading who hates binghe!' because fr every single binghe disliker has the same talking points - which, you know, individually were long discussed (and disproved) by ppl in fandom - but then I was suddenly hit with a spoon beam so now I'm writing a long-ass answer.

Starting with the most glaring, this sentence:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did) him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them.

has clued me in to the largest thing anon has missed. Remember how I said "surface-level reading"? Let me explain. There are great many avenues for analyzing a book, especially one as crunchy on a meta-level as svsss (you'll see what I mean by that later).

But the most basic thing - the LVL1 if you will - is asking yourself the following questions: (1) whose POV is the book written from? (2) is that POV omniscient or limited? (2.1) are there cases where the POV character doesn't know something we, the reader, have inferred? (3) if it's limited, how reliable is their narration? (3.1) are there cases of their actions not aligning with their narration? (3.2) are there reasons for them to lie to themselves and/or the reader?

For SVSSS, the answers are: (1) mostly Shen Qingqiu's POV; (2) limited; (2.1) e.g. he doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head (we'll get back to this more in-depth later), most notably not realizing Luo Binghe is in love with him for good 2/3rds of the book; (3) unreliable; (3.1) think him insisting he is fine when he's clearly grieving post-Abyss - which we can see both from other characters' reactions, and from stray thoughts that he himself has and then dismisses (eng.edition chapter 4: "No! Bah! Shen Qingqiu mentally slapped himself. Who are you calling a grieving widow?! Whose husband died?! That's not something you should just say--you're really getting worse by the day.") (3.2) off the top of my head: the trauma SQQ is going through, with his two coping mechanisms being 'not thinking about it' and 'making light of the situation'; internalized toxic masculinity - as in, the idea that it's shameful for a man to have emotions; internalized homophobia - as in, being unable to examine his attraction to men (evident from very early on, actually) without having a knee-jerk 'it's wrong!' reaction.

To sum it up: Shen Qingqiu's POV is limited and his narration is unreliable. What does this tell us? That we should take what he says in the narrative voice with the grain (or like, a spoonful) of salt, and that it's worth to close-read him. Don't just believe him when he says something; look for evidence!

Going back to anon's words, saying that SQQ appears to just 'tolerate' Luo Binghe tells me that you have not caught SQQ's lies at all.

(cont. under cut)

SQQ is, pardon my language, fucking obsessed with Luo Binghe - just in a different way than Luo Binghe is with him. He is constantly thinking about Luo Binghe even when the latter is not around! (Contrast it to how he thinks about his family from his og world like, 3 times over the course of the book, despite loving them.) And when LBH is around, SQQ can't go a page without mentioning how incredibly beautiful he is! (And then blames it on Luo Binghe being a protagonist, like, of course the protagonist is the most beautiful person in the world, that's natural!.. We later get the POV of a literal author of the world, btw, and he says he wrote LBH as a conventionally beautiful prettyboy type, and his own ideal man is completely different. Which is how we know that SQQ going on about LBH's radiant showstopping obvious-to-anyone beauty is really only his own opinion that he's trying to sell to us as a universal truth.)

And, speaking of LBH's crimes anon mentions (I will not be calling them 'warcrimes', sorry, none of the very few less-than-moral things he does can be classified as that) - you may notice that, for both actual things LBH did and for things SQQ attributed to him mistakenly, those never changed the way SQQ feels about Binghe. He thinks LBH killed his kinda-friend and still jumps in to sacrifice himself to save LBH's life. He sees the guy LBH mutilated, and is disturbed by that... but still continues to protect LBH. Gives him a lil forehead kiss like 20 minutes later.

Oh, and let's not forget the scene where SQQ is punished with a hyper-realistic dream of original LBH tearing off his limbs, and his reaction to that is "I need to see my Binghe asap immediately like rn, I need my cute version of Binghe to feel better about this."

This all is to point out that SQQ continuously fails to be normal about LBH. That's a feature! That's what makes their relationship fun! "Clearly you are perfect for each other pls dont involve anyone else in whatever the fuck is wrong with you" kinda situation.

But you must look through the cover of SQQ's misdirections for it - like again, trauma! toxic masculinity! internalized homophobia! It's difficult for him to admit his feelings even in his head, but he is getting better about that. In Mei vs Ge extra, SQQ admits he wanted LBH to push a little more about them sharing a bed and that he would have agreed. And is kinda put out that LBH simply accepted his refusal. Then in Deep Dream extra, SQQ is literally the one to jump LBH. And in Wedding extra, he almost manages to look directly at the fact that he's very happy that LBH is proposing to him! So yeah, he is getting better at admitting it too. But honestly, his feelings about LBH were always really intense. In different ways over the course of the novel, but he adored LBH from before he transmigrated, and that adoration never lessened, despite everything that happened between them. You just gotta look at his actions and not his 24/7 mental stand-up routine.

All right, next, in the same paragraph the previous thing came from, I'll abridge and highlight for relevancy:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck [...] him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them. And it came off very gross, especially in the epilogue, when Luo Binghe was blatantly manipulative about that, pushing and cornering Shen Qingqiu into doing more than he already was, and using his tears to his advantage, in a way that was clearly in the text not unintentional.

...Listen, for someone claiming to hate how one-dimensional LBH ended up, I'm seeing a distinct lack of effort at actually understanding the character. Luo Binghe's teary act (in the moments when it is an act, because there are also many moments when his tears are genuine, we'll get to that later) is, first and foremost, for Shen Qingqiu's benefit.

Shen Qingqiu admits it himself that he finds it easier to be "frank" with Luo Binghe who is "willing to cling to his legs and throw a tantrum to seek comfort" (Return to Childhood extra). It's the internalized toxic masculinity and homophobia thing again. It's actually pretty interesting how he rewires his brain from its knee-jerk reaction of "homosexuality wrong" by mentally comparing Luo Binghe to a girl - like calling him Bing-mei, thinking he's acting "like a lovesick maiden", etc. God I want to study this man like a bug. Anyway, yeah, the point is that LBH acting cute and whiny helps SQQ be more comfortable with giving affection to a man, something that he struggles with because of his personal issues.

And Luo Binghe, while not aware of the exact nature of SQQ's issues (having grown up in a world where homophobia doesn't seem to exist), does understand this - that Shen Qingqiu’s thin face and pride make it difficult for him to show emotions. And it's not something LBH intrinsically knows either; he has to figure it out (not without help, everybody say thank you papa Airplane), confirm it for himself (the "But other than hearing Shizun crying..." - "Who was crying?" - "Other than hearing someone crying, [...]" scene comes to mind), and then accept it as truth (which he doesn't seem to fully do until at least the Maigu Ridge, and Shen Qingqiu outright saying "I do it for you and only you!" - if not even later.) It takes him time to learn how to work with this knowledge too...

And, to be brutally honest, how blatant and over the top he gets with the act is entirely due to how SQQ keeps rewarding the behavior.

Now... you might consider this a conjecture, given how we only get the tiniest glimpses into Luo Binghe's mind - in the rare moments the author shifts out of the primary POV. But fortunately, one of those moments can be used to prove that Luo Binghe is not, in fact, "pushing and cornering" Shen Qingqiu into doing things Shen Qingqiu doesn't want to do.

The moment I'm talking about is in the Mei vs Ge extra: Shen Qingqiu, having agreed to "do some exploring together", sees LBH's giant 🐓, goes "absolutely not" out loud, and attempts to give him a handjob instead — which also doesn't go too well. Bringing us to (LBH's POV emphasized):

No matter how calm Shen Qingqiu kept himself, he couldn’t stop his expression from twisting. Luo Binghe had secretly been paying attention to his face the entire time. At this moment, he carefully said, “Then, Shizun, how about… you do it?”

LBH is attentively watching SQQ's reactions to figure out what he's thinking and feeling. The moment Binghe comes to the conclusion that SQQ is uncomfortable with bottoming, he offers to let him top. Notice how he doesn't start crying or whining to get his way, when it's something that might be a genuine hard line for SQQ?

And it's actually the same in the Regret of Chunshan extra: when SQQ shot LBH's idea down, LBH "looked a bit disappointed, but didn't push the issue". Yes, later SQQ will say LBH was "putting on a pitiful act"; but if you read the scene carefully, LBH did not do anything but look a bit disappointed - and SQQ just walked himself into feeling bad about refusing completely on his own.

Now, when does Luo Binghe use crocodile tears then? Well, the answer seems to be: when it's about small things. Like wanting to do it face to face (after they've already agreed on both sex in general and on who will top), or begging SQQ to call him 'husband' (after they have gotten married). Ultimately inconsequential things, and, likely, things that he suspects SQQ is avoiding only because of embarrassment and not anything more serious.

So, to sum up this section: Luo Binghe's crybaby act is for Shen Qingqiu's peace of mind first and foremost, and Luo Binghe does not actually use it to coerce Shen Qingqiu into anything he wouldn't be willing to do. LBH is not responsible for the fact that Shen Qingqiu has no bottom line when it comes to him and can't handle seeing him even minorly disappointed, let's be real.

Okay, last thing from that paragraph (yes there's another thing):

and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did)

See, with the way anon describes it here, I can't even tell which scene this references, but luckily I have a rebuttal for both options.

Like, is this about the Maigu Ridge? Aka the scene where LBH is not in his right mind (literally hallucinating, among other things) - and then comes back to consciousness to see that he, by all appearances, had brutally raped the person he loves with all his heart? No fucking wonder he starts crying?!.. And to clarify, he did not rape SQQ, because SQQ had given informed consent here. If anything, there was nobody in that scene less consenting than Luo Binghe himself.

Or is this about the scene in Mei vs Ge. Which is like. Entirely on SQQ, who decided to keep quiet instead of telling LBH that it hurts. Like, whatever that was about! It's only, oh, one of the major themes of the novel that hiding your feelings and struggles is bad, and will hurt not only you but people who care about you.

...Btw, if someone not in fandom is reading this with increased befuddlement for why those two are having so much painful sex. Well, aside from the scene where LBH is tripping balls because of a cursed sword, and the situation is forced by the literal will of the narrative (more on this later), our couple are two adult virgins with no sex-ed, and one of them is in possession of (canonically) the biggest dick in the world. Given those factors, it would be weirder if they were able to have flawless sex right away. (And it's a meta-commentary, something we'll also get to later.)

Speaking of the cursed sword, it's somewhat amazing that anon says all this

Why did they make him become this? I understand what he went through, I'm not asking about cause and effect, I'm saying the effect could have been so much better and more realistically (in my opinion and from my personal experience with trauma) written. I'm not saying he couldn't be burnt or bitter or jaded, nor that he couldn't be clingy or overly emotional or manipulative, I just think it could have been done better, and I HATE what his character became for the second half (realistically, most) of the story.

and completely fails to mention that between LBH's return from the Abyss and the end of the main story, LBH's actions are severely affected by a cursed sword that amps up his emotions with the express purpose of destroying his mind. Seems somewhat relevant to why his behavior isn't written as a realistic trauma response? And instead as a trauma response amped up to eleven and set on fire? And that's without even getting into LBH giving himself supernatural brain damage as a form of self-harm. Which uh. doesnt simply map onto any irl concept really.

Continuing from this, I think it's time for me to expand on one of the points from earlier: about how Shen Qingqiu doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head for most of the novel. It will be tied to this particular bit of criticism on anon's part:

I feel like the author utterly assassinated his character in the 2nd half of the novel (ever since he came back from the abyss) and turned him into a one dimensional caricature of himself, and I HATED IT.

What I want to suggest here is tied, once again, to how Shen Qingqiu’s POV is limited and unreliable. So, a new batch of questions: (4) is our understanding of other characters' actions affected by the limited POV? (5) is there a particular reason for the author to keep other characters' motivations opaque to the POV character? (6) can anything be gleaned by reconstructing other characters' perspectives?

The answer to (4) is a yes so resounding the POV character himself admits it: "First, he'd thought Luo Binghe was unbelievably cruel and evil, then he'd thought Luo Binghe was unspeakably strong and bright." (ch.21) Shen Qingqiu has the very same problem as anon does: he sees Luo Binghe as one-dimensional, making assumptions about how he's supposed to act - instead of trying to understand what's there.

Which leads us neatly into the answer to (5): people making assumptions about what's best for the other person instead of asking them what they need, and hurting them as a result, is also a major theme, present in many relationships throughout the novel! And that's only half of the answer.

The other half will require us to go a little meta. You see, BingQiu's relationship, among other things, are meant to echo the relationship between the reader and the character. The reader loves the character, but they are also the reason for their suffering - as for the story to go on, the character must continuously face more and more difficult obstacles. Shen Qingqiu both loving Luo Binghe and causing him unspeakable amount of trauma is meant to mirror that. Shen Qingqiu's expectations for how Luo Binghe should act, and attempts to fit him into one or the other archetype, are also, yknow, reader behavior.

And... are we not also readers? Are we not expecting Luo Binghe to act a certain way (for example, when I first read the novel, I fully expected him to keep being a classic ML: to swallow all his grievances and keep being unquestioningly and ardently devoted to MC. Which, once articulated, is such an unfair expectation!), and feel it's "character assassination" - to borrow anon's words - when he does not adhere to the role he's supposed to inhabit, based on our idea of his personality and place in the story?

So: is there a reason the author seems to deliberately make Luo Binghe hard to understand, irrational, or one-note, to both Shen Qingqiu and us? Making it harder to sympathize with him? For example, can it be commentary on oversimplifying complex characters to just their role, or just one aspect of their personality...

As for the answer to (6), I ultimately want to leave it for you to try it out and decide. I'm literally the person who wrote a 90k character study fic to try and figure out the minutiae of Luo Binghe's post-Abyss mental state, so my answer is I think obvious. He has a lot going on!

Which kind of brings me to another of anon's gripes:

And actually that made me really sad because I wanted to enjoy it so much, because I LOVED the beginning, and I love Shen Qingqiu, but the evolution of Luo Binghe and the refusal to let him KEEP evolving inescapably ruined the story for me. He was insufferable, and I kept hoping he would grow and get better, but he just never did.

Look, I simply cannot agree that Luo Binghe did not grow and get better; it just largely happens at the very end of the main story and in the extras. I know anon has missed that, since they missed the more obvious things like Shen Qingqiu being obsessed with Binghe right back and Binghe using the pathetic act to help Shen Qingqiu feel more at ease, so I'll get to that in a bit. But first, I want to make sure we are on the same page about everything before that.

The part of Luo Binghe's arc between the Abyss and the Maigu Ridge is a downward spiral. He's going through the corruption arc, just as the original version of him did; the narrative demands it.

And it's not like 'the narrative' is a nebulous force here; there are literal actors of its will in the story, the System and Xin Mo sword. Like, in particular, the Maigu Ridge sex scene is a perfect example of how those two actors push Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu. The System literally withholds a key item that can help Luo Binghe regain his conscious mind until Shen Qingqiu has sex with him - you know, until the demands of the narrative of a romance story are fulfilled. And Xin Mo literally corrodes Luo Binghe's mind so that he acts like the original version from PIDW, because the truth is, SVSSS Luo Binghe would rather die than actually force himself on Shen Qingqiu. (Binghe's first reaction to seeing what he'd done is to ask "Why didn't you kill me?" and like. understandable. im crying also)

Oh, right, I promised to explain how bad sex is meta, this is a good spot for that. You see, it's a commentary on the 'flawless first time' trope, and also 'sex is a cure' trope. The author posits that two virgins having sex would naturally be awkward and not magically good. And that having sex in a highly stressful situation where one of the parties is not in control of their faculties would naturally be really fucking bad, and also not magically good.

But back to narrative demands. The point is, Luo Binghe simply cannot get better until "the story" ends. He can't heal while the world around him is literally deadset on dragging him down to become a bloodthirsty, sex-obsessed tyrant. The only thing that saves him is Shen Qingqiu managing to get them into the happily ever after zone by the skin of his teeth. There's a reason the main story of the book ends with: "The story circulating through the world might already have ended. But the story between you and me has only just began". 'The story circulating through the world' is the narrative the characters were trapped in; only once it has ended can Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe be allowed to go free, to actually live their lives and be happy. (This novel is very meta, I'm telling you.)

All right, now, back to how Luo Binghe actually did grow and get better! We're almost to the end! I fear to see how long this post is, at this point!

Now, I could be pointing out specific details, like Luo Binghe letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong because he thinks that's what SQQ would want - when his whole breakdown before was about how he couldn't keep SQQ with him. Or I could be reminding you of the second section of this post, and saying that Luo Binghe learning to bypass SQQ's embarrassment by playing cute is actually also character development, even if you didn't like it.

But I think we should go for the heart of the issue. You see, yet another prominent theme in SVSSS is toxic masculinity. It's baked into the setting, with the "original" book our MC transmigrated into being a heterostraight harem novel; it's something our MC struggles with, when his learned toxic behaviors screw over both himself and the person he loves; and - most important to our current topic - it's the chief source of tension within Luo Binghe's character.

Literally, there are even names for two polar axes of his personality in the story: Bing-ge (ge=big brother), coined by in-story fandom to describe original Luo Binghe of PIDW, and Bing-mei (mei=little sister), the nickname SQQ comes up with specifically for "lovesick maiden"-acting Binghe.

"Bing-ge" side, of course, represents toxic masculinity. Extremely obviously in OG!LBH's case, what with him being the protagonist of 'male wish fulfillment and misogyny: the novel', but if you think about it, SV!LBH also demonstrates toxic masc behaviors, starting post-Abyss and up to Maigu Ridge. Noticeably, exactly when he had Xin Mo fucking him up - Xin Mo in general is symbolic of the "original" narrative, pushing SV!LBH to replicate the OG's behavior. And also it's a sword. The symbol of toxic masc version of the narrative is. A sword. RIP Freud you would've loved Scum Villain.

But what does "Bing-mei" stand for, if we detangle it from SQQ's 5D chess with his own sexuality? We know Bing-mei cooks and cleans and gives waist massages. We also know Bing-mei shows affection freely, and isn't embarrassed to cry, and has a sensitive heart. A man who is caring instead of controlling, a man who is not afraid to be vulnerable and emotional... Bing-mei side is meant to represent the healthy / soft masculinity.

And Luo Binghe's arc is rooted in the struggle between healthy and toxic sides of masculinity. What I think is tripping up a lot of people is that he starts at the healthy place, in his "white lotus" days. He is caring, he is affectionate, he shows the full range of emotion.

Then, the world comes for him, and he falls (or, yknow, is pushed) into toxic patterns of behavior. He hides his vulnerability, the only show of emotion he allows himself are outbursts of anger, he tries to control the person he loves... and thus hurts people around him and himself. His breakdown at Maigu Ridge is about thinking he can never be good enough, no matter what he does - see, the very idea that there's some level of achievement that can make a person unequivocally lovable is a toxic masc mindset!..

But the thing is, him breaking down here - admitting that he can't "win", showing the messy, undesirable, emotional side of himself - demonstrating that he can't be the Bing-ge version - is what opens up a path for him to communicate with Shen Qingqiu. Giving him the genuine connection he needed, that Bing-ge could never have. And thus allowing him to destroy the toxic-masculinity-representing sword.

So, the evolution path the author charts out for Luo Binghe from there on is him growing into the healthy masculinity patterns. Starting with, again, putting caring about his partner above controlling him and letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong. Which SQQ didn't actually want, but we've already covered that he's his own kind of freak(affectionate). And continuing to try to do better by SQQ and listen to him (eg the whole SQQ refusing to share a bed and LBH acceding so easily SQQ was left reeling, because he was planning to agree once LBH pushed). And learning that he can show emotion and be validated for it (see Return to Childhood extra with its "if you are unhappy, say so"). And accepting that he doesn't need to be perfect to be loved (the guy faceplanted trying to propose and still got his man...). And, hell - count 'doing his best to learn how to pleasure his partner in bed' with this as well!

So, once again, as a closing note: I simply can't agree that Luo Binghe doesn't grow and evolve. You just have to let go of your preconceived notions of what his character should be like, and learn to see, understand, and appreciate what's there. The same arc Shen Qingqiu, his most faithful reader, goes through.

For a book as meta as SVSSS, that's obviously no coincidence.

[tuttle-did-it]

Buffy fans, I know you are out there. James Marsters did another interview with Rosenbaum.

CW James does talk about That Scene in Seeing Red where Spike forced himself on Buffy and the trauma it caused him to film it. He had to go to therapy after. He talks about this from 17:00-22:50

[dusty-daydreams]

you missed out Daphne raping simon in your overview of sex ed!

Like while the rape wasnt really criticised by the show it is interesting that it is directly a result of sex ed

It's hard to analyse around the rape because it's almost like the show doesnt know its depicting rape but I still think it's interesting. Theres an unintentional message that women having that kind of knowledge is bad

You make a great point Anon!

I didn’t mention Daphne raping Simon because I was focusing on the things that happen within the framing of the show, (e.g. it’s sexy when Simon teaches Daphne to touch herself, and it’s funny that Eloise doesn’t know how babies are made and it’s a horror that Simon takes advantage of Daphne not knowing how babies are made) and I don’t think the show thinks that Daphne assaulted Simon.

She absolutely did, but I don’t think the show thinks that is what happened

But if we include that incident in the mix, the lack of sex ed, means that Daphne doesn’t have a robust understanding of consent, assaults her husband and then makes him grovel and apologise to her for lying and takes no responsibility for the crime that she doesn’t seem to realise she committed.

Plus you are right, as soon as Daphne learns about how babies are made she assaults her husband to test out of her knowledge is true

The show just doesn’t want to pick a lane when it comes to sex ed - which is a strange topic to have mixed and conflicting messaging on

[ladyloveandjustice]

Unsurprisingly, after witnessing what Ango did and being assaulted by him (and considering the extremely misogynist guy centric environment she grew up in, a microcosm of an already misogynist society) Ayu is thinking that all men might secretly be rapists and be okay with this behavior. So it's nice that Taka is able to reassure her that no, he's not a Special Man for feeling intense revulsion and anger toward rapists, that's a normal thing everyone should feel, and it should also be normal not to dehumanize others and understand the basic idea of self control no matter what your gender is.

That being said, Ayu's still carrying this weird idea that some people are noble and just and others are corrupt and be eliminated, when most people are just...people. But it's not surprising, considering how the school told her she was elite and better than everyone else if she survived. Instead, she was honestly just lucky, and so were the others. Surviving doesn't mean they're good and can be trusted. I wonder if Ayu's ever going to have to face the idea that she's not as pure of heart as she believes.

[starlitsunday]

[cw: discussion of rape]

i Am talking about a real person's oc when i'm like "why in the fuck did you write your character having sex with angela in the first week". and i'm talking about them for a really good reason.

angela is introduced as the glados of lobotomy corporation, your suspicious robot assistant. you as the player don't even know what sex Means to her, other than that she's just told you "yeah i was designed to be sexually available".

your player character turns out to be her maker, and her abusive father figure if you do not intentionally write him as his own entity. it's a valid alternate reading! but this player didn't know anything about that yet, not even enough to define his character AS a separate entity.

now to anyone who perceives this game for more than five minutes, angela is obviously not okay. okay people do not say shit like that on first meeting a complete stranger. and even if the player character is not ayin, not written to be related to her at all, there would have to be a slow slow burn for things to turn out okay.

so that's the fiction.

all of that would, on its own, be completely innocent. a hypersexual survivor with similar trauma to angela's might write that by accident, or with the intent of having the characters do a weird false start and then they work it out later on. hell, a survivor with similar trauma to angela's might deliberately write it as a kink scenario. none of these are inherently harmful, because they're not hurting anybody.

but then this person turned out to be an whole ass IRL Rapist whose entire predatory MO was based in using fiction to groom and exploit people who did not understand the intersection of trauma and sexuality.

and that is where you cross the boundary between fiction and reality, and that is why i am a ship discourse centrist lksdfghlgh

tl;dr:

[frienderbee]

Oh what the hell I'm putting the rant here even though it was mostly directed at tiktok users.

I've fallen down a pro vs anti discourse rabbit hole and if there's one thing I've noticed it's that people suddenly get extra comfortable sending some of the most disturbing threats when they believe they have the moral high ground.

Tiktok at least is full of rape threats, increasingly graphic suggestions of ways people should kill themselves in general. But I'm seeing people actively justify it when commenting this stuff unprompted on proshippers videos.

There's something ridiculous about people getting upset on behalf of fictional characters whilst actively telling people to kill themselves in the same breath. Regardless of whether you agree with someone, people on the Internet are real and have feelings. Characters do not.

Obviously the Internet will always be full of stuff like this, I can't stop that. Worse, people are desensitised to this stuff. But justifying it cause you think they're a bad person???

Literally the only times I've seen people have the "hot take" of not saying this stuff to people is when talking about people who "use proshipping as an unhealthy coping mechanism" which is not the only reason people who read or enjoy dark or complex fiction. And definitely shouldn't be the only reason to not tell someone to kill themselves.

Then on the other side I've seen people actively seeking out proshippers in order to tell them to "get raped again" or that "they're clearly not traumatised enough". It's disgusting

So I'm saying again.

People on the Internet are real, fictional characters are not.

And before someone says, I'm not saying all proshippers are innocent and all antis are monsters. There's definitely people who escalate this already stupid debate and take things too far on both sides.

But I definitely see a bigger problem of antis trying to justify and excuse this stuff whilst actively going out their way to say it.

[whump-card]

Sunless Lives Part 19: I Can’t Tell You

~1510 words

CW: Carewhumper, discussed noncon, threatened noncon, noncon touch, panic, manipulation, conditioning, forced confession of trauma, use of the word rape and gangrape

First, Previous, Next, Masterlist

~~~

There was one vampire from his past that Simon couldn’t talk about. Matthew only knew he existed because of Simon’s tendency to almost talk about him. They’d be curled up under the sheets together, in Simon’s safe space, as he talked about the horrors he’d experienced, and he’d say something like “She wasn’t as bad as…” or “He wasn’t the worst, that was…” And then he’d stop, wringing his hands the way he did when he had pent-up feelings. Matthew could tell he wanted to talk about it, but couldn’t yet. It was too difficult. Too painful.

After all, ‘he’ was the one he’d killed Lara over.

Matthew was patient for the first couple of months. Simon would tell him, he thought, in his own time. But as winter settled in and they went out less and less, Simon’s stories were becoming Matthew's main source of entertainment - and they were also becoming fewer and further between.

Matthew needed to know about this mystery vampire. The stories Simon told him were what he thought about when they fucked. It got him off, knowing about the pain Simon had endured, and was still enduring. It made it easier to not hurt Simon himself. Because he wanted to - oh, how he wanted to. Simon was so pretty when he cried. The stories were an adequate replacement, for now. But the mystery vampire was so enticing. If this one vampire was worse than all the rest, was so bad Simon had killed the woman he loved to avoid seeing him again, whatever he did to Simon must have been unspeakable.

Matthew had to know, before he started testing his theories himself.

He lay with his head propped up on one arm, watching Simon sleep next to him. The human was curled up on his side facing Matthew, one arm under his pillow and the other reached out towards the vampire. Matthew took up his hand, running his thumb over Simon’ knuckles. Simon’s mouth twitched upwards and his eyes slowly opened.

“Good morning,” said Matthew. In reality it was evening, but Simon liked to play house like that.

“Hey.” Simon’s voice was gravelly from sleep, and he smiled up at Matthew. “What’s up?”

“Just thinking,” Matthew replied.

“What about?” Simon scooted a little closer to him, turning his hand to lace his fingers with Matthew’s.

“The vampire that made you kill Lara,” Matthew said softly, “What did he do to you?” He wasn’t in the mood to waste any time.

Simon stilled.

“Don’t you think you’ll feel better if you talk about it?” Matthew gently encouraged. He wanted Simon to do it willingly. That would be easier.

Simon disentangled his hand from Matthew’s and pulled the covers up tightly around himself.

“I don’t want to talk about that.”

Matthew tugged the covers back to look at his human’s face.

“Simon… I want you to tell me.” He needed to be delicate here. But he was so impatient.

Simon frowned up at him - not truly annoyed yet, just confused.

“What for?”

“I just think it would be cathartic. For you.”

Simon rolled onto his back and closed his eyes, taking a breath.

“You’re probably right, but… I just can’t. Not yet.”

“You know it might never feel like the right time. Maybe you should just get it over with.”

“Maybe…” Simon suddenly huffed and kicked the covers off. “I don’t know, I don’t want to talk about this right now.”

Matthew pressed down on Simon’s shoulder, preventing him from getting up.

“You don’t have to be detailed,” he said, doing his best to sound soothing, “Just tell me the basics. Get it out of your system.”

“No.” Simon didn’t push away Matthew’s hand, but his voice was firm. “I don’t want to.”

Matthew had had enough. He sat up and swung a leg over Simon, straddling his thighs.

“Where did he bite you?” He pushed up Simon’s shirt, revealing his scars.

“Hey!” Simon yelped, “Not cool!” He grabbed Matthew’s wrist to push it away, but Matthew didn’t budge. Instead he started feeling up Simon’s stomach with his other hand, caressing over the bite scars.

“Just tell me,” Matthew wheedled, “What did he do? Did he bite you up here?” his hand slid under the shirt to Simon’s shoulder, “Or…” it traveled down and dipped under the waistband of Simon’s sweatpants.

“Matthew, stop.” Simon’s voice rose, and he stared at Matthew with wide eyes. Matthew sighed. He’d pushed a little too hard. Too late now.

“I just need to know,” he leaned forward, bringing his face closer to Simon’s, “What did he do? I mean, I know he fed from you and raped you, they all did,” he couldn’t keep an anticipatory smile off of his face, “But what did he do that was so different? So awful?”

Simon stared at him, slack-jawed. He shook his head.

“Matthew I don’t like this, you need to stop,” he said, his voice high and wobbling, music to Matthew’s ears.

“Just tell me,” Matthew whispered.

Simon shook his head harder, and with renewed vigor he shoved Matthew’s shoulders.

“Get off of me!” he demanded. In response Matthew grabbed his wrists and pinned them to the mattress. The move made Simon freeze, and start to breathe hard.

“Matthew?” he whimpered. Matthew loomed over him, his own breath rising. Simon was beautiful when he was terrified. Tears were gathering in his eyes and his legs twitched under the vampire’s weight. Matthew couldn’t believe he’d waited this long to properly scare him.

“Don’t worry,” Matthew soothed, “I’m not going to hurt you. I just need you to tell me,” he squeezed Simon’s wrists tighter, “Tell me what happened.”

“Okay!” Simon relented, “Okay, I’ll tell you!” He stopped there, gasping for air and sniffling.

“Go on,” Matthew said, giving his wrists another press.

“He, he, his name was Davis Bowers.” Tears leaked out of Simon’s eyes and he spoke around stifled sobs. “He, um…” Simon’s eyes darted around frantically and his chest heaved.

“Hey, hey, hey.” Matthew dipped down and kissed Simon on his trembling lips. “It’s okay, I’m right here with you. Keep going.”

“He - he never touched me himself. He rented me for an initiation.” Simon was looking anywhere but at Matthew.

“So a bunch of new vampires fed from you at once?” Matthew guessed.

“...No, no, it wasn’t…” Simon twisted his head to the side. “Matthew, I don't want to talk about this!”

“I need to know, Simon. So that I can protect you.”

“Protect me?” Simon cast Matthew a glance, hesitant. This was Matthew’s in. Simon would believe any excuse he offered - he didn’t have any other choice.

“Yes,” Matthew reassured him, “What if he takes you from me and I don’t know what to look for? So you have to tell me.” He gave Simon’s wrists a little squeeze, enjoying the rapid pulse fluttering under his fingertips.

Simon screwed his eyes shut.

“It was a test, they - they had to prove they had self control. That they could… be with a human without biting them.”

“You were gangraped,” Matthew interpreted, barely quelling his excitement.

A heaving sob escaped Simon. He had never used to word ‘rape’ to describe any of what heppened to him, and now here Matthew was, shoving it his face.

“How many,” Matthew demanded.

“I don’t know!” Simon cried, “I don’t know, Matthew, please!” His eyes opened and met Matthew’s. Matthew grinned, drinking in the suffering.

“This is for your own good, you have to tell me.”

Simon nodded rapidly.

“I know, I know, I’m trying -”

“Did more than one take you at once?”

Simon’s breath hitched.

“Y-yes.”

“Did it hurt?” Matthew leaned in closer.

Simon nodded, biting his lip.

“How long did it take?”

Simon shook his head.

“I can’t, please, I can’t -”

“Shhhh.” Matthew kissed him again. “That’s okay, you did so good, you did so good telling me.” Unable to resist any longer, he rolled his hips and ground against Simon, eliciting a whimper of terror from the human.

“Matthew, please, please don’t!”

“It’s okay,” Matthew breathed into his ear, “I’ll never hurt you like that.” He pulled back to look Simon in the eye. “Do you understand? I protect you from those monsters. If I ever meet this Bowers guy, he’s dead, and so is anyone he ever sired. I’ll keep you safe. I’ll never hurt you. I’m the only one who will never hurt you like that. Do you understand?”

Simon nodded obediently.

“I know, you keep me safe, I know!” he gasped.

Matthew released Simon’s wrists. His touch left behind raw red marks but Simon didn’t seem to care. He flung his arms around Matthew's neck and pulled him close.

“It’s true, you’re the only one Matthew, you’re the only one who…” His words disappeared into weeping as he clung onto Matthew for dear life.

A “good boy” danced on the tip of Matthew’s tongue, but he knew that would be a step too far. He had Simon exactly where he wanted him, after all. Needy. Lonely. Broken.

He’d never lose him now.

~~~

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Taglist: @flowersarefreetherapy, @pigeonwhumps, @sunshiline-writes, @seasaltandcopper

[makiruz]

No, but the alleged victims of rape of October 7th is straight up out of The Birth of the Fucking Nation, that movie also used the threat of sexual violence against white women to justify the murder of black and indigenous men in the USA; it's been part of the white supremacist playbook for actual centuries now, the idea that the brown man is a barbaric beast out to rape white women so the white man has to kill him (it's why gringxs have so much anxiety around black men dating white women)

And it's what these fucking zionists are doing with the supposed rape allegations, portray Hamas, and by extension all Palestinian men, as brutish rapists that must be stopped by the righteous Israeli men for the sake of women; and just like with the USA, the allegations are fake! I mean, it's very likely sexual violence has taken place, as that's a factor in war, but the mass rape zionists are crying about was proven as fake, it didn't happen, they made it up, it's bullshit

And then they double down, by crying that people don't care about Jewish women when we correctly point out the allegation is fake and Islamophobic propaganda. It's the tears of white women that get black men killed, the Ultimate Karen move

[krwioholik]

Maybe i missed something in the books or its in the ones after Tower of the Swallow, but why is Triss gross? I remember hearing about her taking advantage of Geralt in the games, but yeah would you mind elaborating? If not thats ok, thanks!

|| So here is the exact fragment of Blood of Elves that makes me so angry at her:

We are not given specifics but "she had seduced the witcher - with the help of a little magic" is a fairly clear description of rape in my opinion. I think there can be room for speculation here: what kind of magic, what effect it had on him etc... but I think it'd be moot, really. If she had to use magic then he clearly wasn't eagerly consenting to it and that's just rape. Even if I'm sure Geralt would never consider it in such terms, and I doubt Sapkowski did either tbh (though that is just my personal speculation).

So yeah. She raped him and got off on his pain and guilt over it, which honestly somehow makes it even more vile than if she did it for... lets just say purely physical reasons, in my opinion.

Fantastic portrayal of the fact that women can be abusers too! Definitely makes Triss very complex as a character because she is not an all evil monster by any means, and she does many, many good and noble things throughout the Saga. But what she did to Geralt here was completely disgusting.

[mogai-sunflowers]

okay i will never NOT believe that trans men and transmascs face specific oppression. i believe in the existence of transandrophobia/whatever name you use for it. and i DON’T think it’s transmisogynistic to acknowledge that, like, at all.

but i literally can’t stand the community that talks about it on here because time and time again i’ve seen so many of them say the most insensitive, blatantly misogynistic stuff without getting called out. like these are things i’ve seen some of the major people say on here without any repercussions (many of them include criticisms of white women, which im not saying is bad, but a lot of it isn’t genuine criticism, it’s just misogyny hidden behind criticizing white womens racism)

- “i’m tired of hearing about cis women’s trauma with men” (i understand that many transphobic cis women use their trauma to shit on transmascs, but this is NOT an acceptable way to say that without any consideration to its implications)

- soooo much stuff from white transmascs about how Black and brown men get policed, but ALWAYS implying that the same thing doesn’t happen to Black and brown women (I will always acknowledge Black and brown mens’ unique issues, but the erasure of police violence against Black and brown women is such a huge issue that it bothers the fuck out of me to see them only ever bring up police violence when it’s about Black and brown men)

- “if cis white women just wanted to vent about sexism, they’d just text their best friend, not make “womens only spaces”, that’s just because they want to have the most power in the room” (cis white women, and in fact all cis women and white women, should be held accountable for the racism and transphobia they can perpetuate, but to imply that they’re all power-hungry and just want to oppress others, that they can’t also experience misogyny and want safe spaces to discuss that, is DISGUSTING. also, you’re right, the point of those spaces IS to have power, because we largely don’t have that in a context with cis men, having power to be yourself for once isn’t a bad thing to want like huh???)

- “white women shouldn’t fear sex trafficking, they don’t want you” (which is a very insensitive way to acknowledge how sex trafficking affects largely girls and women of color. being terrified of being sex trafficked doesn’t make you stupid and isn’t a fear that should be mocked, whether the girl is white or not, but also, if you’re going to center girls of color in that discussion, just say that, instead of hiding misogyny behind criticizing white womens tears)

- literally outright saying that white women are the ones who continue the white race, and then pretty blatantly implying that therefore, if white women get raped by their partners, they’re still the carriers of the white race and therefore it’s a PRIVILEGE for them to get assaulted (i wish i was kidding. when i saw this post i was sick for hours afterwards. again: for the love of god, when you criticize white women and our capacity for harm, do it without blatant misogyny)

- lots of talk about how the mere existence of womens-only shelters/spaces is the problem, and not their common issues with intersectionality and transphobia. (sure, many of them have issues but that doesn’t mean their premise is bad and if you’re gonna shit on ANY woman for wanting a safe space after experiencing traumatic misogyny, then you need to shut the fuck up)

- making fun of the woman who coined the term ‘transmisogyny’ just because she has some flawed views about trans men. (she is a flawed person but julia serano is still integral to the discussion of transmisogyny and to mock anyone who aligns with her is just....... so blatantly transmisogynistic)

i’ve seen a lot more but those are the worst. i used to look up to a lot of these people but i’ve truly seen so much misogyny and especially misogynoir from them dressed thinly as criticism of white women and cis women that it’s not even funny. this is not me saying “won’t someone please think of the poor white cis women” it’s me saying that if you can’t criticize them in good faith without blatant bigotry against their gender, then you need to rethink your fucking criticisms and think before you open your damn mouth.

so yeah. just to reiterate- i literally firmly believe in the existence of transandrophobia but i can’t stand that community that talks about it in that way and though i sometimes reblog various posts from people like that, please don’t connect me to that shit because it’s quite triggering for me, i’ve had so many anxiety attacks and panic sessions from the misogyny and shit i’ve seen from them. i believe in transandrophobia but i also believe in showing basic fucking human decency to women.