#separatism is dumb and bad

[shr0mwzrd]

Fuckkkkk can you all stop being libs and/or exclusionary for 5 seconds PLEASE

[genderqueerdykes]

what's your take on (usually cis but not always) lesbians not wanting to date bisexuals? I never really understood that. I feel like a lot of the reasoning presents as biphobic, plus most of the people I ask shoot me down and call me inherently lesbophobic for not understanding, so I'm not sure how to feel about it

it's really just bullshit and i'm glad you decided to ask!

this behavior definitely has its roots in lesbian separatism. there was a push in lesbian spaces in i want to say the late 80's to early 90's to remove anyone who wasn't a "Woman Loving Woman". they started kicking anyone out who associated with men at all. they also started kicking out butches who were "too butch", trans men, and any other men and mascs who may have attended the space. and they started inventing all kinds of weird words like Womyn and asserting that women and lesbians were superior to everyone else.

it got really out of control. during that time it was really common for lesbians to reject bisexual women, especially if they had ever slept with a man. for. whatever reason. i don't know if they think they get guy cooties by proxy or what, but they were so staunch about it that they would just. refuse to interact with you if you even had friends who were men. it got that bad. they were kicking out bisexual women and people because they were tainted now, or whatever. a bisexual woman was no longer pure or whatever the hell. lesbians and their partners had to be STRICTLY Womyn Loving Womyn or else they don't belong in lesbian spaces. they became SUPER pushy about it being for lesbians ONLY and NOT those "gross filthy bisexuals".

that's why we're seeing this now. we're seeing a resurgence of this rhetoric in real time. radfems are now what the lesbian separatists were back then. same group of people, different name. they change hats every few decades but their politics stay the same. it's dumb as bricks because if you ask me, you're not entitled to know who your partner has been with before they got together with you. you don't need to know that. and it doesn't change anything about you if your partner chooses to date or sleep with multiple genders. it's just petty. they would act like that person was a man now just because they associated with men and would treat them like an icky parasite. it's seriously just unreal how these people think and act. and it's still normalized in lesbian culture to this day

bisexuals can be in lesbian relationships. bisexuals can be lesbians. lesbians can date bisexuals. the world will not come grinding to a halt if a lesbian marries a woman who has slept with men. that doesn't make that person "tainted". people gotta stop with this weird culty bullshit. we're not treating people as individuals anymore. it's gross.

[tmblrplsdonutbanme]

The turn towards religion and spirituality in blackpilled women doesn’t surprise me.

I can’t even hate them, honestly.

It’s the natural conclusion of their ideology.

A lot of the things they say are the same as my muslim mom does.

And tbh if you believe that women are doomed to be inferior and defenseless against men, and no change is possible, then there’s no reason to resist.

The difference is my mom accepted this as her reality and went on to live the trad life as was expected of her, like a living zombie. The ex-feminists either turn to anti-natalism and celibacy, or to religion as well.

In my opinion celibacy and anti-natalism are a better choice cause they don’t contribute to the spread of patriarchal brainwashing of the new generation, but what shocks me is that they have all this hatred over normie women giving up and keeping the status quo alive when they’re literally in the same position mentally. I’d expect they’d be more understanding.

Cause at the end of the day if this is the only way we can be, what difference does it make what women do? Why hate on tradwives and moid lovers if any other choice is just as useless/submissive?

I see them spamming how they’re not mad and they don’t care but it’s clear they do. Although, I can’t hate them for that either. That also reminds me of my mom and her endless monologues about Those Other Bad Women Who Aren’t Like Us being too dirty and slutty and dumb and that’s why god hates us and women have to suffer.

However if it brings them peace I just let it be. I don’t lecture my mom and demand female solidarity at any cost from her, so I don’t attempt this with strangers online either. It feels unfair in a way.

I believe you, but that's what's so frustrating, that their willing hatred of women despite being SURROINDED by feminists reaching out to them is congruent and comparable to a woman who was conditioned into an abusive religion

I agree with the part about them lacking sympathy for women who they project onto having osa sex

The thing is, blackpill feminists are the LAST PLACE to find female solidarity from

I have tried to reach out to them and tell them i would support them, but then they post shit like "women are awful i would never have female friends"

[aqlstar]

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, but I'm trying to learn more about Kurds and their history (good and bad), and I'm extremely leery of what I'm finding from general searches. I just do not trust my knowledge level yet to be able to fully filter out things that are overly biased in any particular direction.

You seem to know more about this; do you have any suggested resources I could look at to learn more?

I myself have no Kurdish heritage (I bet we have at least one person here on jumblr who does, right?), but I think what you'd want to start out reading really depends on what you're interested in.

As for bias- as a large ethnic minority in several countries in the middle east, they get a lot of hate. Iranian state media especially likes to blame any and all Kurdish political separatism on the Zionists, so that's fun. (Yes, the Kurds were a part of Ben Gurion's Periphery Doctrine; no, the Kurds are not the mindless puppets of the evil Jews.)

Speaking broadly- the Kurds have done a lot to oppose the spread of Islamic extremist movements in the Middle East, and they deserve more credit (and maybe... a state?) for it.

That being said, about 90% of Kurds are Muslim (mostly Sunni, some mainstream Shiite, Sufi, even Alevi), and so material coming from Kurdish political authorities does usually gloss over the way that Kurdish Muslims have historically contributed to the oppression of other indigenous minority groups practicing any religion that predates the Islamic conquest.

For example, many Kurdish Muslims willingly participated in the Assyrian genocide that took place during WWI. Kurdish sources will likely highlight the Kurdish movement for independence from Turkish rule/Kurdish opposition to Turkish forces. (For me a clear parallel exists to how, say, Ukrainian sources talk about Ukrainian nationalism. They're going to talk about oppression by the Russians; they are not going to mention the rampant anti-semitism or how all the cossacks actually mostly sucked.)

So basically I'm saying while you're learning about the Kurds... everytime another ethnic group is mentioned... learn about them too?

Sorry man idk

[biblioflyer]

X-Men: Disproportionate Power, Disproportionate Disorder

Superheroes and Villains are already well understood to complicate traditional understandings of crime, law enforcement, and general social cohesion. When large numbers of people start manifesting powers, the problem only grows. As does the existential dread.

Previously I discussed why X-Men as a setting is fundamentally pessimistic as a necessity according to the creative choices made. It is an essay in 5 parts:

1,2,3,4,5

This is a new series analyzing how experience and social status influences Mutant outlooks on the assimilation vs separatism/supremacy question.

The last part unpacked Xavier’s relatively pampered background and how it likely made him more optimistic, but also how he’s seen more of the sharp end that he’s usually given credit for.

Mutants complicate systems of justice. Assuming the same spectrum of morality as Sapiens, Mutatis with Dark Triad personalities and high power levels, perhaps even Omega level, represent an existential threat. Unlike mortal Premieres and Presidents, someone like Apocalypse can’t easily be thwarted by a minion who simply doesn’t follow orders. Incidentally, I’d happily swap out pretty much any Federal holiday for a Vasily Arkhipov day.

X-Men is also rife with examples of Mutants with more minor abilities using them for criminal intent. Although we could of course fairly ask whether the lack of acceptance pushed them to this, we still must expect that even in a more just society, some Mutants will suffer mental health crises or otherwise simply be contrarian and problematic because it's part of the natural spectrum of Humanity.

Much of social thought is oriented around the idea that you can design a society that rewards good behavior and works around the worst instincts of humans very effectively. Debates over models and systems are functionally debates over what is the more correct understanding of human motivation and behavior and the best way to encourage “good” behavior and discourage “bad” behavior, and to a great extent by what rubrics we should judge good and bad. 

I think all told, we have done better than many historical societies: a person in the 70s/80s would be shocked at how low US rates of violent crime are. This is the era that gave us Escape from New York and Judge Dredd: the idea of entire cities as prisons. 

This is perhaps not an unfamiliar concept to those who watch closely the status and fates of stateless and displaced people now that information more widely circulates, but many people had their ideas about cities shaped by historical crime waves. Many people are also slow to update their assumptions about cities and carry those biases to the present..

I’ve seen it noted that the correlation between living in a rural area and skepticism of government and the regulation of behavior, the so-called “nanny state”, may represent a difference in experience. In the country or small towns, dumb or antisocial behavior has lighter consequences. It impacts fewer people. If you’re playing around with distilling, making homemade explosives, or just having a loud party, the distance between homes often means it's largely the problem of the people involved in doing something reckless or stupid if something goes wrong.

If you throw an all night rager in a densely packed apartment building with walls that wouldn’t pass muster as Amazon packing material, you’re likely to make a lot of enemies. Same as if you start playing around with toxic chemicals. Expectations that people will simply self-regulate, following the honor system or being wary of its dark twin: the Darwin Award, simply fall apart when there are too many people in too close of quarters. 

Eventually someone’s judgment is going to be dubious because even under the most ideal of circumstances, you probably can’t quite keep every last outlier on the Bell Curve from frakking around and finding out.

Now add superpowers into the mix. 

So we who exist outside of the narrative need to contend with this: Human fear of the consequences of Mutant powers wielded by the unscrupulous or disordered is rational.

Collective punishment and oppression of Mutants remains cruel and unjust.

Next: The precariousness of passing and the earned cynicism of those who have known only the wrong end of the boot.

[sossegato]

Everyone else is being nicer to you than you deserve for your sexist, racist, lying bad faith piece of shit post, so I won't.

You're a stupid fuckass cracker.

None of us "people of COLOUR" (!!! so color!) outside the US are either flattered nor convinced by your steaming hot dogshit FAKE ASS anti-racism that's just condescendingly talking about us OVER US and erasing us from our own contributions and autonomy (pooooor us being TRICKED into radfem by the evil white vagina devils! we're so very gullible like that)

If you weren't a stupid fuckass cracker you would know how very well represented in radfem we are, how strong it is outside of whatever sheltered western hole you're from that you think you're above being just another predictable product from.

You'd know prominent movements such as 4B and derivatives, modern, momentous ideations of female separatism, originated in East Asia.

You hypocritical fucking ghouls are always on about "listening to minorities!!!" and then 1000% ignore them when they don't agree with whatever white bullshit you invented about them, like the so-progressive 3rds genders all the COLOURED people seem to have that's just cultural homophobia.

And being a stupid fuckass sheltered cracker your conception of a 'famous radfem' is of course limited to JKR whose alleged asian racism in her 30 year-old book is somehow more an indictment of her character to you than her 30 year-old devotion to founding and funding charities for women and children.

Ah yeah, JKR is a big racist and we, people of COLOUR, are just dumb dumbies who can't figure that out for ourselves. Thank heavens for she/they whiteys from a good suburb in the civilised west letting us so kindly know, else the whole COLOURED world would continue to love her for her talent, charity and courage like the fucking COLOURED idiots we are.

You know who ever only called me nigger on here? Trans people. Usually followed by cunt, bitch, by rape fantasies.

The most racist, unhinged radfem around, and there are quite a few of those, has never stooped to the degree of misogynist, racist depravity the weakest trans activist shits out virtually unprovoked.

I don't think you can be reasoned with 'cause there's no fixing how deliberately dissimulating your OP is. This shit here is not an ignorance issue, is not a lack of information issue. You're just rotten and it doesn't matter how politely or how decisively you're learned.

Enjoy the rest of your life with the useless slab of fat inside your head just weighing on your neck.

Here's why women should be allowed to have woman-only spa-

DELETE YOUR REBLOG

Do you see how easy it is to fall for radical feminism?

Because it is WAY easier than anyone wants to admit.

Radical feminism isn't bad because it's transphobic, or the radfem treats trans women as men. It's bad because they treat men as an inherent evil that cannot be fixed outside eradication.

Early feminism was about how women should have the right to exist in the same spaces as men without risk, why do you want there to suddenly be segregation again?

It's all gender essentialism and an inability to actually fix the core problem. We can demand that society does better in getting rid of abusers but we cannot say that "abuser = man".

Radfems think that transandrophobia isn't real and use mocking terms for it.

Radfems think that a woman is uniquely incapable of being an abuser.

Radfems will doubt a man's ability to control his sexual urges.

Radfems will state that a man's romantic attraction are different from a woman's.

Radfems try to act like sex is a binary and intersex people should just "pick a sex".

Radfems think that the mutilation of intersex people at birth should happen under some circumstance.

Radfems say "cis people can get hormone blockers" as a way to erase intersex people.

Radfems don't believe in nonbinary people if they're AFAB, and if a nonbinary person dare present masc then clearly they're a man.

Radfems believe AFAB nonbinary people are just playing a funny pronoun game

Radfems will ignore WOC

Radfems will see a WOC not fitting the White Woman Beauty Standard, and then treat her as subhuman and evil

Radfems will see a MOC and start throwing slurs such as the n-word because the target is a man

And if you agree with any of those, even performativity, I will call you a radfem. I don't care if you don't think of yourself as one, you are.

[hdyram]

I think maybe as a rule all men see themselves as leftists and all women see themselves as feminists... which probably sounds implausible on the surface but the issue is really that both classes of people are basically the same regardless of individual differences within those groups but have different ideas as to how to push their respective agendas... with men I think the point is always to manipulate the money system they created in such a way they can keep it alive (for the purpose of keeping patriarchy alive) but make it something noble... like I've learned that even the most apparently far right man will say they were always a Democrat (I mean...Men who actually brand themselves socialists and tell people to vote Democrat won't call themselves Democrats as a strategy for being accepted by men who vote red but the agenda of men who vote red is to salvage an especially bad reputation so the strategy is different), they were just forced by circumstances to vote for the other party (I guess the main one being they don't want to vote for a woman but they'll say something or other to deflect from that obviously)

With women the agenda is always to clean up the mess that comes from the money system existing; there's just a lot of disagreement as to what that looks like... some will only go as far as men do, using feminism as an aesthetic more or less (man or bear unless the man is a cross dresser, Botox is empowering, sex work is work, I love porn with a glass of wine, etc.) not because they feel the same as men do but just because they want to enjoy life insofar as they are able and disrupting the status quo is a waste of cortisol... and I would call the other extreme conservative by accident, because rebelling against absolutely everything men might entertain does mean entertaining ideas only the worst men do (no cosmetic surgery, no makeup, no shaving except for the hair on my head that gets sexualized, no prostitution, no sex with men at all, but also "not the fun kind" so no dumb bitch self indulgence...and now I'm lurking eating disorder forums...no mercy for irresponsible men...and now I'm starting to sympathize with pro lifers...any work, not just sex work, that is female dominated implies weakness...and now I'm insulting nurses, etc.) Of course I think most women are somewhere in the middle but even though those two extremes look like opposites they easily belong to the same class in that they are both trying to just exist freely in bodies that have been objectified from the start... whereas men would look at the first category and either incorporate their words into their feminist aesthetic now and again or find something wrong with them anyway ("liberal suburban white woman who can't stop drinking wine" or something), and with the other extreme of woman they'd just use them to masturbate to their lesbian fantasies.

Either way though I think men are always trying to keep patriarchy alive through the economy but shape-shift the economy somehow (at least rhetorically), and women are trying to thrive somehow despite the constraints of the economy, which was always meant to oppress them. It's just that it does oppress them so unless separatism can be achieved (which men can always damage very easily) there's more in fighting. Men aren't oppressed so there's much more easy recognition they all belong to the same class and are just debating opposing strategies for a system they all agree on; not so much in fighting.

[captainbisexuelle]

I hate when radfems fight about separatism because I'm a straight woman and it feels like both sides hate me. The separatists think it's easy to just swear off men and then the radfems who come to my defense infantilize me I'm just a dumb straight girl who was born this way and has no choice but to suck dick and feel bad about it. It's all condescending.

Separatism is necessary as an option. In order for women to be truly free, we need the ability to live our lives without men if we so choose. All-female schools, housing, employment, medical care, etc, have to be available. Freedom from marriage, freedom from children. But obviously not all women will choose this, especially not 24/7. We just need to let the discourse about controlling OSA women’s dating choices die. It’s divisive and doesn’t actually help anyone, as well as being hypocritical and sounding like how libfems and TRAs talk about dating as an expression of political correctness. Criticize being socialized to uphold the nuclear family, to value marriage above all, criticize the institutions that suppress women’s freedom from men, encourage women to center themselves and value their female relationships more. Spread awareness about the pattern of male violence, information about different kinds of abuse, help keep our sisters safe by giving them the resources to help themselves. Yelling at straight women for thinking a dude is hot and wanting to bone is so stupid. If we aim for consciousness raising and building places for women to exist without men, they’ll live better lives and more women will choose to engage less and less with men anyway. I believe my fellow woman is a full person with generally as much reason and desire to be free from oppression as myself. Having a conversation about the commonalities in our lives is so much more effective than me telling her to live like me.

[ms-hells-bells]

hi, this might be dumb but can u be straight + date men and still support women's lib /radfem ideology? Or is that just cognitive dissonance? Am new to all this, I rlly enjoy your blog :)

i mean, of course you can support it, no ones gonna stop you here if you have a boyfriend but also do other radfem/woman liberating things. the issue is that being in an intimate relationship with your oppressor by near default is a unique situation that only the female class goes through. any other group can effectively separate from their oppressors because their axis of oppression does not clash with their sexuality. people of colour can just date people of colour. gay people obviously won’t really be dating straight people, and they can even eliminate bi people from their dating pool if they want to go the whole hog. but what can straight women do? they’re the only oppressed group that is faced with the option of dating the oppressor or being alone. and that’s a heavy burden that not a single other group can possibly relate to. even i as a bi woman can simply just febfem it (and frankly should since i have the option). 

the issue with dating your oppressor is that they naturally become your priority. you care for them, you may marry them, you may have kids with them. and obviously radical feminism is critical of all of this because it reinforces the patriarchy. and it is true that the second you stop dating men, your risk of any kind of abuse immediately plummets, and you are able to fully centre women. dating a man is unfortunately centring a man, which can lead to reluctance to listen to and accept particular radfem ideas, like anti marriage, anti having kids, PIV critical, the concept that all men are inherently misogynistic, no matter how small, etc. they often become very aggressive and resistant of these ideas because they participate in them and humans are very defensive of anything they partake in. because we don’t want to be doing something “bad”, we associate our actions with our entire identity, so we feel that admitting we’re doing something bad means that we as a person are bad. which is not true. 

ultimately, this is a highly debated grey area. you will not find a consensus of this topic within the radfem community. some feel that due to our attraction to men, it is not possible for straight or bi women to be true radfems at all because we will always have that conflict of interest. on the other side, some women go the full patriarchal traditional route and make zero change to their lives, and wear the radfem label as an identity, in the same way that TIMs wear the word “woman”. you have to fit the definition of a word to be that word.

my personal view, and the most common view i see, is that just like wearing makeup or restrictive feminine clothing, or shaving, or previously being involved in kink or the sex industry, dating men are one of the actions that are anti feminist that many radfems participate in for survival, or because of socialisation. at all times we should encourage these women to not do these things, to brave up and change their behaviours in order to free themselves and help other women. being gnc where it matters, female separatism (which isn’t just romance, it’s friendships, communities, funding female businesses, etc), and the like should be the goal for radfems. but i understand the nuance within that. many women have boyfriends/husbands that they had BEFORE they got into radical feminism. unless he’s a piece of shit, i feel it’s quite entitled of me to say “break up/DIVORCE” now that she’s entered our community. of course, then she has to reciprocate by not bringing her male into our community, not derailing to notmynigel, and absolutely focus on centring women. 

yeah, idk, i just try to approach interacting with women positively rather than with pressure and aggression. i will continue to encourage separatism and critically discuss male relationships and the like, but my focus is on women and i feel like being set on attacking het partnered women is spending too much time on something i can’t change in that manner, and i’m focusing on men too much by doing so. we can argue about the label of radical feminism all we want, but the label means little, it is the actions taken that matter the most. and some of the most influential, law changing radfems were/are het partnered. to me, it’s that they’ve done more good than harm, and that they actively try to offset the status quo that they’ve fallen into by aiding women in other ways. i guess that i’m quite centrist on this topic. i don’t bother radfems that do date men (unless they’re complaining about how annoying their boyfriends are. don’t complain to radfems as a radfem about how shitty your boyfriend is when you know you could literally just dump him (unless trapped in an abusive situation. i have all the empathy in the world for abused women, no matter how “free” they are to leave). don’t waste our emotional energy), but i also largely don’t tone police or derail women criticising radfems who do date men and their gripes with them, unless they head into misogynistic territory (don’t get me started on the dick worshipper/bitch/mother hate discourse). i think that both “soft radfems” and “hard radfems” can exist and compliment each other and support one another despite the differing methodologies, so het partnered women don’t bother me too much.

[trans-advice]

Hey, for the past 5 or so years I have privately identified as nonbinary or not conforming to any gender, and even recently requested that my boss and coworkers use they/them pronouns. About a month ago I stumbled across a "gender critical" blog and started reading it. I know it's a bad idea to engage with trolls, especially when it will impact your sense of self, but I felt restless that my existence was being debated and wanted to hear the other side. Now I am feeling confused (1 o 2 asks)

I’m feeling confused and gross, wondering if all this time I have been actually working against my own feminist beliefs, or if I’m just being naive and getting indoctrinated. Like,I worry about me being a female who simply didn’t subscribe to gender stereotypes, tricking myself into thinking I"wasn’t like the other girls". I have also been wondering about what it means to identify into an oppressed group, and why we can’t talk about it without being dismissed as a dumb TERF. (1 o 2 asks) Thx

— Eve: CW: long post, possibly rambley, could’ve used better editing, transphobia, “gender critical”, recuperation, discussion of “terf” politics, recuperation of liberation movements, politics, oppression, rape culture, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist,

So basically I have tried for almost 4 weeks to write a response detailing this stuff. however it’s gotten too unwieldy. i tried to condense it, but this was as close as i got. it’s practically like 3 drafts back to back. I couldn’t figure out the differences & when i saw similarities it seemed significantly different enough. so I’m not editing any further. here’s a mindvomit. i wish i had this more polished but I can’t do that & i didn’t get a response.

however I’m going to make a history book recommendation, a referral to gendercensus2020, and i need to emphasize that these are much more like personal beliefs & not generally the tone of this blog which aims to give advice & positivity, while this is inherently political, the good bad & ugly. and there are trans people of various persuasions so I don’t want alienate them. i dissecting some ideologies that are transphobic, how they became that, how they got recuperated, and how you can find the same concerns being addressed. I’m answering this because it totally makes sense to me that this is asked in good faith & I want to respect your concerns & show that there are better methods of liberation activism that are trans affirmative, or at least must become & develop into such.

So I’m going to recommend the book “Transgender History (Second Edition)” by Susan Stryker, which I have put on our blog’s google drive account, so hence a link. It goes into the historic common ground between the feminists & LGBT+ peoples. It also gets into historic movements. And on top of that, the first chapter is literally a list of terminology deconstructing gender, which is also helpful for analyzing topics feminism analyzes..

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IvCwNvCJ_EiDmOer4zS8SbFGz4m-WDJ1

another thing you need to know regarding the label lesbian back in the day is that it was a catchall for any woman who didn’t have sex with men. now granted, this was a cisnormative understanding, but basically lesbians included celibate women, asexual women, and of course bisexual women in addition to gay women.

basically the normal advice of wait til you have your own money to have sex, wait til your mid 20s, don’t rely on a man to pay your bills etc, all of this comes from political lesbianism, which was like be celibate or else have sex that doesn’t involve sperm. (granted, communities cannot be monoliths if they want to be ecosystems, like any movement label there are different interpretations made by members of it, and therefore there are some strands that uphold a homonormative appreciation for conversion therapy. perhaps a middle ground for understanding how that happened is that joke about macho sexuality purity “if a man masturbates with his hand, he’s using a man’s hand to get off, then it’s gay.” granted, there was of course a political/economic reason to this, but still, it seems in terms of history that this joke was considered actually legitimate.)

“lesbian” was a catchall for women who didn’t have sex with men. this included ace, celibate & gynephiliac women. part of the reason these communities were conflated again had to do with the economic pressures to get married which I’ll detail a few paragraphs from now. (while this next thought could be incorrect because I did just learn about ‘compulsory heterosexuality" a month ago, I think the vestiges of those economic pressures are basically the gist of “comphet”.) the goal of political lesbian as well as lesbian separatism was to build an economy/get money that didn’t require submission to patriarchy, via marriage, pregnancy etc. so basically in an effort to build like support networks, “men” were shunned as much as possible.

however these networks ended up replicating capitalism, (partly due to oppression against communes & other anti-capitalist activities) which then replicated the oppressions of capitalism. it makes sense that transphobia had formed of assimilation/respectability politics for such feminists. To quote from the criticism section of the Wikipedia article on the women’s liberation movement.

> The philosophy practised by liberationists assumed a global sisterhood of support working to eliminate inequality without acknowledging that women were not united; other factors, such as age, class, ethnicity, and opportunity (or lack thereof) created spheres wherein women’s interests diverged, and some women felt underrepresented by the WLM.[208] While many women gained an awareness of how sexism permeated their lives, they did not become radicalized and were uninterested in overthrowing society. They made changes in their lives to address their individual needs and social arrangements, but were unwilling to take action on issues that might threaten their socio-economic status.[209] Liberationist theory also failed to recognize a fundamental difference in fighting oppression. Combating sexism had an internal component, whereby one could change the basic power structures within family units and personal spheres to eliminate the inequality. Class struggle and the fight against racism are solely external challenges, requiring public action to eradicate inequality.[210] >

birth control helped to liberate women & that accommodation/handicap for reproductive health disabilities (disability is merely inability to do something that’s Normative. so if having a uterus, pregnancy/menstruation/having breasts etc aren’t considered normal, which is especially common in a patriarchal society for these examples, then it’s disability.) It should be said that due to the desire for bodily autonomy to regulate our own body parts, as well as a desire to manage our fertility & sterilization, the transgender movement has a lot in common with feminism’s female-as-disability movement.)

it should also be noted that before the medical transitioning became accessible that us trans people relied a lot more on social transitioning than medical transitioning. it should also be mentioned that the medical procedures are available & used by cisgender people too.

that being said, since both cis females & transgender women were denied birth control etc, there was a very intense fear of impregnation happening & trans women going back in the closet not only to get money under patriarchy but also because life raising a kid is hard. like if you’ve ever seen “the stepford wives” & look at how the ally husband betrays his feminist wife, then that should clue us into how a lack of birth control scared us.

the problem with the school of feminism that emphasizes physiological sex over gender identity (in order to deny the existence of trans people with female-organs or not) is that it doesn’t account for birth control & how that’s affected the landscape, the economy etc, the revolutionary impact of birth control basically. it also ignores that trans people & cis women feminists have the same goals when it comes to getting freedoms about reproductive rights & bodily autonomy. therefore it ends up being transphobic & wanting to run back into the times when we didn’t have abortion access because they want to hurt us.

That being said though, we need to have birth control & more in order to help liberate trans people too, so if somewhere doesn’t have birth control, then we’re not doing well either because it’d pay a lot more to be transphobic (which of course it doesn’t now when we have birth control & various medical & other technologies). i think what I’m trying to say is that similar to disability accomodations clashing with each other, if we of the women’s liberation, the trans liberation, and the gay & lesbian liberation, and the bisexual & ace liberation get stranded then we’re all doomed. granted we might be doing that due to defensiveness with hostility similar to how in the 1980s feminism got very conservative in USA & how some transgender people get spared in systems with strict gender conformity & anticolonialist values, it’d be wrong to say that all our liberations are in conflict with each other. they can be mishandled, but ultimately, safety still tends to favor cisheteropatriarchal people. internalized patriarchal thinking is like internalized queerphobia, and so forth.

I want to emphasize that it is relatively easy for transgender people especially nonbinary people to find gender critical discourse somewhat appealing. Here’s why: TERFs & Gender Critical discourse is agender-normative disability discourse regarding reproductive health & other AFAB organs. (a disability is being unable to do things that society considers normative. so if you can’t drive & your locale de facto requires it, then that’s a disability. also in usa you’ll find that pregnancy & disability are the main things welfare programs prioritize. a pregnancy can be harmful, but can be easier with the right monitoring etc. which again is the same with disability.)

the problem though is that they then insist on misgendering you as one of the binary genders based on objectification of your body (specifically, “morphology”). point being, because you feel dysphoric over being misgendered as something nonbinary as being mislabeled as cisgender, this implies that you are indeed transgender.

https://gendercensus.com/post/612238605773111296/the-gender-census-2020-is-now-open

—

Now to be clear, there are historical economic considerations that made the decisions to specialize on the intersectionality of cisgender AFABs, but the economy & technology has changed. Basically marriage back in the day was economically necessary because there was effectively no birth control available. Therefore, to get child support etc, required getting the father to pay the consequences. However, marriage was very much a chattel property institution, marital rape was still legal, and women couldn’t get credit etc in our own names.

#

At the same time, similar to birth control being unavailable, hormones & other procedures for medically transitioning trans people were unavailable as well, which meant social transitioning & wardrobe etc were the main methods of affirming our gender. however, we sometimes got lucky & had a doctor write us a note affirming our gender & sometimes we got even luckier & govts accepted this. this however required getting labelled sick & begging doctors to give us treatment & getting money for this since insurance companies etc still discriminated against transgender people even when we agreed to have our gender identity situation labelled as sick & medically necessary. (similarly insurance companies still refuse to cover abortions & so do some doctors & hospitals.)

#

So this meant that AFABs were concerned about getting hijacked via impregnation. Because of the patriarchal economics of the whole thing, people were afraid of “the stepford wives” repeating itself in their own lives, where the mind can only handle what the ass can stand would mean trans women would go back into the closet.

#

Granted, that’s a bit misrepresentative of trans women & trans people because trans people & cis women who can get pregnant do have a lot more in common. we take the same meds, go to the same clinics, menopause etc gets taken due to distress over how our bodies work, etc. then again, how would trans AMAB people have gotten the money for child support?

#

historically & still to this day we basically had to beg doctors for the ability to get hormones to get a surgery to get a gender marker change & so on, which granted, what we trans people had available to us varied from locale to locale because it required collaborations of trans people, doctors, and the local govts & especially their police stations. again, before roe v wade abortion providers were super underground & secretive & there were specialized units at police stations for hunting down patients & providers under the charge of “murder”. it’s the same dynamics.

#

seriously trans people & people with bodies that can get pregnant, menstruate, menopause, etc, we go to the same clinics! women’s health clinics take trans patients, planned parenthood takes trans patients, do i need to go any further on how trans people & feminists have the same interests regarding reproductive health?

—

as for political lesbianism:

basically the normal advice of wait til you have your own money before having sex, wait til your mid 20s, don’t rely on a man to pay your bills etc, all of this comes from political lesbianism, which was like be celibate or else have sex that doesn’t involve sperm. (i’m not sure what the conditions were like surrounding not piv sex among the straights, and therefore what the likelihood of avoiding piv sex was. I do know that rape culture was much more heavily normalized than it is now.)

“Lesbian” was a catchall for women who didn’t have sex with men. this included: - ace, - celibate - bisexual - gay women. Part of the reason these communities were conflated again had to do with the economic pressures to get married, (while this next statement could be incorrect because i did just learn about ‘compulsory heterosexuality" a month ago, i think the vestiges of those economic pressures such as weddings are basically the gist of “comphet”.)

The goal of Political Lesbianism as well as Lesbian Separatism was to build an economy that didn’t require submission to patriarchy, such as that of marriage, pregnancy etc. In efforts to build like support networks, “men” were shunned as much as possible.

However these networks, (partly due to lacking radicalization) ended up replicating capitalism, (partly due to oppression against communes & other anti-capitalist activities) which then replicated the oppressions of capitalism. It makes sense that transphobia had formed of assimilation/respectability politics for such feminists. To quote from the criticism section of the Wikipedia article on the women’s liberation movement.

> “The philosophy practised by liberationists assumed a global sisterhood of support working to eliminate inequality without acknowledging that women were not united; other factors, such as age, class, ethnicity, and opportunity (or lack thereof) created spheres wherein women’s interests diverged, and some women felt underrepresented by the WLM.[208] While many women gained an awareness of how sexism permeated their lives, they did not become radicalized and were uninterested in overthrowing society. They made changes in their lives to address their individual needs and social arrangements, but were unwilling to take action on issues that might threaten their socio-economic status.[209] Liberationist theory also failed to recognize a fundamental difference in fighting oppression. Combating sexism had an internal component, whereby one could change the basic power structures within family units and personal spheres to eliminate the inequality. Class struggle and the fight against racism are solely external challenges, requiring public action to eradicate inequality.[210]”

[intersex-ionality]

Me: *Reads your posts on lesbian separatism and radfem influence in the queer community* // Me: *Reads your /brilliant/ post explaining identity politics* // Me: *Reads your posts on how anti ideology is reactionary bullshit* // Me: *Reads your post on deradicalizing bigots* // Me: Delicious... Finally (after all these years), A GOOD FUCKING UNIVERSAL DISCOURSE BLOG.

I assure you, I will spit out a bad take eventually. Just today I had to physically restrain myself from saying some real fuckin’ dumb shit about the Japanese police force, women’s sporting goods, and the etymology of the word “f_ggot.”

Like, give me time. My impulse control will snap eventually.

The bad takes are inevitable.

But, if there is any kindness and mercy in this world, maybe I’ll learn form my own goddamn stupidity, so there’s that.

ETA: Oh fuck, I literally forgot to actually thank you for the compliment, holy shit, I’m sorry, it’s like 2AM and I’m losing track of my own limbs.

But thank you, I do legitimately appreciate it. I know I say some shit that’s pretty, uh.... extreme. Even by tumblr’s own fairly extreme standards. So, I do appreciate the fact that it makes sense to people, and I’m not just like. Screaming nonsense into the void.

[homokommari]

i can understand lesbians and bi ppl (especially bi women) feeling hurt from intracommunity lesbophobia or biphobia but to take that feeling to supporting separatism is bad and dumb and reactionary.

[denebola42-blog]

Depression hits Utah harder than most places, new study shows https://www.fox13now.com/news/health/depression-hits-utah-harder-than-most-places-new-study-shows Ok, i gotta apologize to Utahns and Mormons. This explains everything. I was successfully socially engineered into not marrying, getting too much into computers/IT, fearing Utahns and staying indoors by some toxic hackers, etc and thinking that Conservatives are the only bad thing in the world, thanks to brainwashing and i was slipped something at least twice, likely more, and they took advantage of increased brain injuries. I think they're racist gay activists and atheists as well. Yeah, i did not think that's a thing. They told me to vote with my feet, go back to California and pushed mein kempf and white separatism and hated on latinos and Mormons and claimed Utahns are all bad people and used flash mobs to convince me of such. And convinced me to not marry even the pretty Mormon gals i thought were pretty but used my rebellious nature and will to fight for a good cause against me. And here's a beautiful photo of Utah. Reminds me of the people and they, these hackers or whatever, were friends with some of the Latin gangs who also gave me shit and they were, the hackers, into Anarchy, antifa and chomsky and hating on the USA a bit and into green day. I dunno why i attracted their attention. I'm just some guy. I'm above average even gifted in smarts but... Like billions of others. Plenty of smart people in the world. People tried to convince me I'm above others even in California and to not have "white trash" etc friends. Below me. 😂 That's such a crock of elitist shit to push that dumb crap on me. Eugenics weirdos. 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️ That's criminal and someone should investigate. I am kinda... Feeling defeated and it backfires on me though. (at Goblin Valley State Park) https://www.instagram.com/p/COPNXuNBLey/?igshid=1ip210kg3dwj4

[glittergummicandypeach]

Macron: ‘Islam is a religion that is in crisis all over the world today’

French President Emmanuel Macron announced a new law today created to combat “radical Islamism” in order to apparently “defend the republic and its values and ensure it respects its promises of equality and emancipation”.[1]

Macron no longer hiding his feelings about Islam. No longer radical Islam, now it’s just Islam that is the problem https://t.co/ljRK3LuNMM

— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) October 2, 2020

The long-awaited address began with Macron claiming Islam was “in crisis” all over the world.

“Islam is a religion that is in crisis all over the world today, we are not just seeing this in our country”[2]

His comments prompted a huge backlash from Muslims on social media, with French Academic Rim-Sarah Alaoune, tweeting:

“President Macron described Islam as ‘a religion that is in crisis all over the world today’. I don’t even know what to say. This remark is so dumb (sorry it is) that it does not need any further analysis … I won’t hide that I am concerned. No mention of white supremacy even though we are the country that exported the racist and white supremacist theory of the ‘great replacement’, used by the terrorist who committed the horrific massacre in #Christchurch.”

Our chief editor, Dr Salman Butt, commented on the French President’s remarks about Islam:

“Emmanuel Macron, like others who profit from propping up the failed ideology that has caused so much turmoil in the world today, is understandably taking cheap shots at Islam. It is the only comprehensive way of life with a historical track record of creating civilisation from chaos similar to today’s, and it is genuinely a threat to his ill-gotten, temporal privileges. If he were wise he would learn from history and humble himself, lest he join the long list of forgotten losers as footnotes that got in the way of justice, truth and mercy for humanity.”

Shaykh Dr Haitham al-Haddad had a message for President Macron:

Before claiming that Islam is in crisis, he should look at his own values first. Before throwing stones he should look after his glass house. We don’t want to recall the millions of people his ideology in France exterminated in many countries. Maybe he can educate himself with “Calendrier des crimes de la France outre-mer” by author  Jacques Morel.

France is still very much in the throes of its white supremacist ideology mascerading as “secularism”.  Let us ask Macron how France still look at the black people. How does France view Africa? Ask him about the African countries that must deposit their national currency reserves in France at the central bank. Ask the enlightened civilized macron why a dozen African countries still pay billions of Euros as “Colonial Tax” to France each year.[3] What are these democratic values that he claims to want to protect while France is among the first countries to support dictators all over the world? Who supported Gaddafi of Libya, who is supporting the current Haftar of Libya, who is supporting Hezbollah of Lebanon and meeting secretly with them and others?

Before claiming to fix Islam, fix your civilization and protect your people. Are you aware that your county has the second-highest rates for suicides in Western Europe?[4] France had an overall suicide rate of 12.1 per 100,000 people in 2016. It is also a fact that Europe in general leads the world in suicides.

Despite all the attacks against Islam, it is still the fastest growing way of life in the world. Humanity is fed up with the failed and hypocritical ideology propping up your “civilization”, “technology” and “enlightenment” and want to embrace a way of life that provides them with authentic, non-hypocritical values. They want to adopt a way of life that is not racist and does not take advantage of people and require structural and ongoing oppression just to stay afloat. That way of life is called Islam.

Do not worry Mr Macron, your people are not all like you, they are indeed turning to Islam. The rate of conversion to Islam in France is on the rise. Sooner rather than later, your children or perhaps even you might become Muslim because Islam wins even its enemies. It is better to work with Muslims to fix the problems of your so-called “civilization” before it is destroyed by your values.

Editor of British Muslim news site 5Pillars, Roshan Salih, and spokesperson for the MCB, Miqdaad Versi, also tweeted their response, with many calling the President’s words a blatant attempt to divert attention away from France’s coronavirus second wave crisis.[5]

Just listened to speech by #EmmanuelMacron which could have come out of lips of Boris Johnson or any right wing leader. Political Islam is bad, Islamic separatists are trying to undermine secular values. And then he mentionned French colonialism as if it was thing of the past!

— Roshan M Salih (@RmSalih) October 2, 2020

The willingness to use Islam & minority Muslim communities to rally supporters by promoting a divisive culture war against minorities, in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, shows more about those who promote such divisiveness than anyone else… https://t.co/qJxShTIleJ

— Miqdaad Versi (@miqdaad) October 2, 2020

The repression of Muslims has been a threat, now it is a promise. In a one hour speech #Macron burried #laïcité, emboldened the far right, anti-Muslim leftists and threatened the lives of Muslim students by calling for drastic limits on home schooling despite a global pandemic.

— Yasser Louati (@yasserlouati) October 2, 2020

The new measures are aimed towards “liberating French Islam from foreign influences” will see local officials be given extra-legal powers to combat “extremism”.

He added:

“Our challenge is to fight against those who go off the rails in the name of religion … while protecting those who believe in Islam and are full citizens of the republic.”

His speech today represented a broad outline of future measures, with a more thorough plan expected to be drawn up in the next two weeks in preparation for a bill to strengthen a 1905 law which will be presented in December of this year.

Some of the measures include placing mosques under greater control and will put a gradual end of the long-established practice of bringing Imams from other Middle Eastern countries – especially during the month of Ramadan – instead ensuring any Imam arriving from abroad receives training in France before gaining their certification.

It will also require children from the age of 3 to attend French schools, a place Macron said was “the heart of secularism where children become citizens”[6] and that “secularism is the cement of a united France.”

In addition, Macron said outward displays of “religious” affiliation would be banned in schools and the public service. Wearing the hijab is already banned in French schools and for public servants at their workplace.

Meanwhile, Roshan Salih suggested a quicker and less violent solution to the problems Macron claimed to want to tackle:

#EmmanuelMacron needs to realise that once France stops intervening military in Muslim countries and starts treating Muslims as equal citizens then there’s a real possibility that communal relations in France will improve.

— Roshan M Salih (@RmSalih) October 2, 2020

Source:

Notes:

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/02/emmanuel-macron-outlines-law-islamic-separatism-france

[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/2/macron-announces-new-plan-to-regulate-islam-in-france

[3] https://blogs.mediapart.fr/jecmaus/blog/300114/franceafrique-14-african-countries-forced-france-pay-colonial-tax-benefits-slavery-and-colonization

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France#:~:text=France%20ranked%20second%20highest%20for,to%20WHO’s%202016%20suicide%20report.

[5] https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/01/paris-could-see-bars-and-restaurants-close-as-covid-19-worsens-in-six-french-cities

[6] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/frances-macron-details-plan-targeting-islamist-separatism-emmanuel-macron-muslims-france-law-underworld-b746741.html

The post Macron: ‘Islam is a religion that is in crisis all over the world today’ appeared first on Islam21c.

This content was originally published here.

[thomasblanky-moved]

I don't really think that you have a right to say that lesbian separatism is "stupid" or anything like that.

ive been staring at this ask for at least an hour because uh. separatism of any kind is.... Bad? the entire goal of second wave feminism was equality, but separatism- voluntary or otherwise- can so easily lead to the idea of “separate but equal” that.... wasn’t really equal at all. besides, lesbian separatists (and indeed other feminist separatists) were the spiritual ancestors of what we now call TERFS, so like... as a transgender person, i can definitely say that feminist separatism as a whole is Dumb As All Fuck.

[nubnubblr]

If You Do .13

JACKSON

I wasn't sure if I should tell her the truth or not. Would it be weird if I told her the truth? Would she think I was some kind of crazy stalker?

"Jackson?" her voice snapped me back to our conversation.

"I'm not really sure, I just thought I would call, I hadn't heard from you all day," I shrugged even though she couldn't see me.

"Dude, your pizza is getting cold," Jooheon called.

"Sorry to cut our call short but I have dinner sitting in the table and a friend over. I don't want to be rude, I was just checking to see how you were,"

"That's okay, I should probably get back to my friends anyway, I'll text you later,"

"Bye Thea," I smiled.

"Bye," she laughed hanging up the phone.

I picked up my bag heading to my room to get changed out of my work clothes and to put my bag away. Jooheon was smirking at me when I sat down on the lounge, Mark handed me my box of pizza without a word.

"What?" I frowned.

"So you have a girlfriend?" Jooheon raised an eyebrow.

"No," I shook my head.

"Then who is Thea?"

"A girl I ran into," I shrugged.

"That's one way to put it," Mark commented.

"How would you put it?" he turned to Mark.

"He ran into her getting covered in soup, he will claim that she ran into him, they exchanged numbers and have been nonstop texting since,"

"You ran into a girl carrying soup?" he raised his eyebrow.

"No, I was holding soup,"

"So you attacked a girl and wasted a perfectly good meal? That was dumb,"

"That's not even how it happened," I sighed.

"Sure it wasn't,"

"I'm going to shower, don't eat my pizza," I rolled my eyes getting up.

"Don't be like that," Jooheon pulled on my arm so I sat back down.

"Mm, tell us about this girl drama," Mark mumbled with a mouthful of pizza. I was pretty sure he was only asking to change the subject and divert my pouting.

"Thea's friends were sword fighting and one stabbed the other accidentally and had to have surgery. It sounds like she's had an intense day," I shrugged opening the pizza box.

BM

"Okay, come on let's leave Sam to get some sleep," Thea stated at 7:30 pm. Visiting hours would be over in half an hour anyway.

"I already talked to the nurses, they said that you can stay with Sam, if they ask you're his emotional support because he gets panicky alone in hospitals overnight," she continued, this time talking directly to Charlie.

"Thanks," she nodded.

"Do you need me to get anything before we leave?" Thea asked.

Sam looked exhausted, Charlie was still mad at me, Jae was silent and Thea was doing what Thea did best; mothering. I wasn't really sure what to do so I just stood by the door awkwardly. I blamed myself for him being stabbed and I felt so guilty about it, but the way Charlie was looking at me was making even me question if maybe I had done it on purpose, which was ridiculous, there was no way I would intentionally stab anyone especially not Sam. But Charlie's look was just amplifying the guilt that I felt. I knew it wasn't personal and that she as just channelling her worry and concern through anger, but she had every right to blame me.

"Not that I can think of," Charlie shrugged.

"Okay, we're off then, get some rest," Thea smiled at Sam.

THEA

"I don't need you to stay," Sam stated looking at Charlie, he didn't mean it, I think he just didn't want Charlie to feel obligated.

"There is no point in you arguing," Jae shrugged, we all knew it was more for Charlie than Sam.

Sam has had a few close calls recently, food poisoning, being arrested, and now being stabbed and going through surgery. I think it was all taking its toll on Charlie and she just needs to be with Sam so she knew for sure that he was okay. But that being said, Sam definitely needed her to be here to if he was left by himself tonight the full weight of this injury would hit him, at least if Charlie is here someone can talk him through it.

There was no way he was going to be able to pick up, let alone play, a guitar for at least a few months and that was pretty much Sam's life if you don't count Charlie. Not being able to play was definitely going to take its toll on him. I'm not sure anyone else had actually realised this yet, but when they did, Sam would going to be depressed, BM was going to feel even more guilty than he already did, and Charlie was going to be madder than she already was. The next few days were going to be interesting, to say the least.

"I'll be back in the morning to get you guys," I smiled.

"Can you bring breakfast?" Sam asked sheepishly.

"And coffee," Charlie nodded.

"Sure, oh, the nurse will be in soon to organize you somewhere to sleep," I threw over my shoulder as I turned to leave Sam's room.

"I'll just sleep in his bed," she shrugged.

"Probably a bad idea," BM frowned.

"How?" Sam raised an eyebrow.

"It's a single bed and you've just had surgery,"

"She doesn't move in her sleep," Jae pointed out.

"But Sam does,"

Charlie seemed to think about it for a moment. Giving BM a sceptical look. Sam frowned the slightly nodded.

"He sort of right," Sam stated.

BM

I could see what was happening even though no one else could yet, except probably Jae but he didn't see it as any of his business as it didn't affect him. Sam had already started on his Charlie-coaster trip, right now they were going up, I was a little worried about what would happen once they reached the top and came speeding down. Maybe if I could slow or even stop them from going up, then they wouldn't need to come down and it would save Sam a whole bunch of mental abuse.

Okay, that wasn't fair I couldn't really call it mental abuse, it's not like Charlie did it on purpose, but once Sam fell back into bed with her then he was no longer in control of his own actions. Which made the metal break up so much worse.

"Anyway, the nurse should be here soon, I'm going to get going, the animals need to be fed," Thea waved.

We waved at Sam and Charlie before making our way down the halls towards the exit. None of us said anything until after we had walked out the entrance doors into the cool night's air. Thea waved as she headed towards her car.

"Wait up we'll come with you," I called after her.

"Don't worry about it, I'll see you guys the morning," she left.

"Is she aware of the fact there's blood and boxes all over her backyard?" Jae asked.

"Probably,"

"You know if we don't go help her she's going to clean it all up and move it all on her own, in the dark," he stated.

"Is that a bit of concern I detect in your voice?" I smirked.

"Ew, no. I just don't want to hear about it tomorrow when she's complaining about how everything hurts because she had to clean up after us,"

"Right," I nodded.

The two might not show it but they cared about what happened to each other. Thea would have done the exact same thing she had done tonight if it were Jae instead of Sam. And Jae wouldn't have indirectly suggested we go and help her if he didn't at least care a little if she got hurt. They would be lost without the other one to attack.

"So we are following her huh?" Jae sighed like it was inconvenient.

"Yes,"

"If I stab you with a sword do you think it will hold her off until tomorrow?"

"You would stab me with a sword?"

"It looked kind of fun," he shrugged with a smirk as we reached the car.

"You have problems,"

SAM

"How are you really feeling?" Charlie sighed looking at me seriously.

She had been fairly quiet all afternoon, she was definitely mad at BM, it was so obvious that BM had noticed, it wasn't his fault, it was my own. I shouldn't have turned my attention away from a sword fight, but I thought I had heard Charlie and I couldn't help but look.

"I'm fine, just a little sore," I gave her a small smile.

"Serves you right, maybe next time you won't decide sword fighting is a good idea,"

"You know BM is already blaming himself,"

"So he should," she shrugged.

"It wasn't his fault, he was reluctant to sword fight in the first place,"

She frowned and looked at me for a moment before she decided to say something. But before she could get a word out a familiar voice came from her door, it sent my eyes involuntary rolling towards the back of my head.

"I should have known you would still be here," Bianca sighed, glaring at Charlie.

"What are you doing here? Actually, I don't care, just go away," Charlie snapped.

"I'm not here to see you troll face, I came to see Sam,"

"How did you even know I was here?" I interjected to stop and minimize the fighting.

"A friend of mine works here, she rang me to tell me you were here,"

"Which friend?" I frowned.

"Please, she doesn't have any friends and the hospital isn't allowed to just give out information to those who aren't family or next of kin. That psycho probably stalked you," Charlie rolled her eyes.

"You're one to talk, look how quickly you jumped into his bed, whore much?" she raised an eyebrow.

"Beunka," I warned.

"I'm sorry, I've been really cranky recently. I guess it's the pregnancy hormones," she shrugged.

THEA

I pulled into the driveway, I could see Sora and Shire in the front window. They were probably just looking out the window but I felt like I was being told off for them not being fed yet.

"I know, I'm sorry," I waved at them.

Shire jumped down from the window, he was a little jumpy, but he was a rescue cat and it took him a while to even warm up to us. He still doesn't like new people coming into the house, he just hides under my bed until they've left.

Sora continued to stare at me as if to say 'hurry up human'. But that was probably just my guilt from their dinner being late.

The two dogs started barking as soon as they'd heard my voice. I could hear them running through the house to meet me at the back door. Before I even got to the door I saw the back yard, it was dark but I could see the mess. I let out a sigh and unlocked the door.

"Come on, I inside," I called closing the door behind me.

After I'd put my bags down and fed the animals, I got changed into something warmer and turned the outside lights on before going to clean up the mess. They had already separated most of it, so the boxes that were staying here I taped back up and started moving them back into the shed.

BM

"Do you think she's finished?" Jae asked as we pulled into the driveway.

"I doubt it, she would have had to feed the animals first," I shook my head.

"Plus the backyard lights are on," I added.

We got out of the car, Jae grabbed the pizza boxes and we made our way around the back. Thea had moved all of the boxes that were staying here back into the shed and closed it up. She was currently taping up the other boxes for the donations, the stuff we were taking had also been moved but I wasn't sure where too.

"I'll go put this inside," Jae stated quietly.

"Why are you two here?" Thea frowned.

"We got dinner," Jae raised the boxes above his head walking into the back room.

"Why?"

"Because we knew you wouldn't eat,"

"I'll eat when I'm hungry," she rolled her eyes.

"No you won't, if we had of gone home I can pretty much guarantee that you would have finished out her, hosed the blood away, gone and showered then either sat on the lounge until you fell asleep or just gone straight to bed," I stated.

"Don't pretend you know me," she huffed.

"Come on BM, why don't you help me with these boxes? We can drop them off in the morning," Jae stated walking past me.

"What?" Thea frowned.

"Do you want to do it on your own?" Jae challenged.

"You never offer to help," She countered.

"I'm hungry and I don't want to hear you complaining about it tomorrow," Jae shrugged.

"Right," I nodded rolling my eyes.

"Well, are you going to help me so we can eat or not?" Jae asked heading down to the assortment of boxes.

"Like you're even going to be able to lift them," Thea pulled a face.

"Just because not everyone has man hands, doesn't mean I'm incapable," he stated.

"Move the boxes before I hurt you with my man hands," she glared.

"So you admit, you have man hands," he smirked picking up a small box retreating towards my car.

"He means well," I smiled at her picking up my own box.

"He's just hungry," she frowned at me as if telling her he was trying to help was ridiculous.

He would say it was so he didn't have to hear her complain and so he could eat faster. In reality, he was just distracting her so she did go all, well, all Thea and turn into a mothering, clean freak. She does that when she can control a situation, she turns to something that she can control.

"Where are the other boxes?" I changed the subject.

"The ones staying here are back in the shed, and the stuff you guys are taking is in the back of my car," she stated without looking up at me.

"And the swords?"

"Bin,"

"Seriously?"

"Yes,"

"They were like $150 each,"

"I know, I paid for them,"

"Right," I stopped talking and picked up one of the boxes.

"You're so slow," Jae huffed shaking his head at me.

"Can we just get these boxes moved so I can hose the grass,"

"Isn't a little late to be watering the lawn?" Jae raised an eyebrow.

"I'm getting rid of the blood not watering the lawn, moron," she frowned at him.

"Hurry up then," he stated grabbing another small box and retreating.

CHARLIE

"You're what?" I raised an eyebrow.

"Are you sure?" Sam frowned, if he wasn't already pale I'm sure the colour would have drained from his face anyway.

"I'm pregnant," she beamed.

"No," Sam shook his head.

I mean, dating her was a dumb idea but he wasn't stupid. He would have been careful, he's always careful. There is no way he would have slept with her without protection.

"You're not pregnant" I frowned.

"Yes I am, I even know that we're having a negative baby. But I know that with us together that we can make it positive," she smiled.

"What the hell is a negative baby?"

"A baby with a negative aura, obviously,"

"How would you even know that?"

"Because the test read negative,"

"Oh my god, you are so stupid," I rolled my eyes as Sam let out a relieved sigh.

"Excuse me?"

"The negative read means you're not pregnant, you actual idiot,"

"No it doesn't, if I wasn't pregnant the test would say 'not pregnant',"

"I don't even know how to comprehend your lack of intelligence,"

"I don't care if you believe me, I am pregnant, and it's Sam's baby,"

"You're saying you're pregnant to get back with Sam, I pray that you never reproduce. I can only imagine how troubled that kid will be,"

"Sam," she ignored me.

"Look, it's late and visiting hours are over. Can you please leave?" Sam sighed.

"What about her?"

"He asked you to leave, but please make me call security," I gave her a sweet smile, as the nurse came into the room.

"I'm sorry miss but visiting hours are over, you can come back tomorrow at 10 am," she gave a polite smile sliding in a fold up bed.

"You're staying here?" she frowned at me.

"I am," I nodded.

"Miss, please you need to leave,"

"Thank you," I smiled at the nurse as she ushered Beunka out of the room.

"This isn't over," she huffed.

"Oh, I think it is,"

BM

"Okay Thea, enough. The blood is gone and you've watered the entire lawn, which by the way, Charlie will kill you for seeing how late it is,"

"I think Charlie is more focused on killing you," she shrugged but turned the hose off.

"Yeah, I'm pretty sure the whole world knows that she's mad at you for trying to kill Sam," Jae added following out behind me.

"It was an accident," I sighed.

"She knows that, she was just worried about Sam and the only way for her to express those feeling was to blame you," Thea stated coming inside.

"She's so dysfunctional," I huffed.

"Why are you two even out here, go eat," she tried to usher us in.

"BM won't let me eat until you're eating," Jae snickered, he was lying, I hadn't said anything about him not eating, I had just told him not to eat her pizza.

"Really, you shouldn't be eating it anyway," Thea pointed out.

"Ew, do you like, care about me?" Jae practically dry heaved.

"That's disgusting. I just know what you're lactose allergy does to my bathroom," she retorted.

"That's also disgusting," I sighed.

"Well are we going to eat or what?" she asked.

"How did I get stuck with you two," I questioned myself.

"You're not stuck with me, you can go home after we eat," Thea stated.

"You stabbed Sam," Jae shrugged.

"Not funny dude," I frowned.

"It's a little funny," he mumbled.

SAM

"Move over," Charlie stated sitting on the edge of my bed.

"Why?" I asked as I moved over anyway.

"Because the mattress on that is too soft,"

"It's the same mattress,"

"Nope," she shook her head before placing it on my chest.

"You could just say that you were worried about me and you wanted to lay next to me,"

"And I would if that was the reason," she mumbled.

"Right,"

"Go to sleep," she let out a yawn.

"I'm hungry," I sighed.

"Of course you are,"

"Should we go get something to eat?"

"It's almost 11, go to sleep. Thea will bring breakfast with her in the morning,"

"But I'm hungry now,"

"I don't want to move,"

"Then you stay here and I'll go ask the nurse," I went to move.

"No, you stay, I'll go. You're not supposed to be moving around too much," she sighed getting up.

I wasn't actually that hungry, I just didn't want to tell her that the way she was lying on me was hurting my shoulder, it was mainly because of the position that I was laying but I didn't want her to feel bad when it wasn't even her fault. Also, she hadn't really eaten today so she should really eat something.

"The nurse said she would bring you something," Charlie sighed getting back into bed next to me. I wasn't in pain this time, well, no more than I was already in.

THEA

"Isn't it kind of pointless for you guys to follow behind me? Why don't you just wait here? I mean, I'm only picking them up and bringing them back here,"

"Yeah, but you're buying food on the way," Jae shrugged.

"I can bring you some back,"

"Just get in the car," BM stated getting in his own.

They hadn't left me alone, they had insisted on stay last night, Well BM had insisted. Jae was just too lazy to go home, according to him. I guess is was pointless arguing with them, BM was already in the car waiting for Jae to get in, I understood that he still felt guilty about stabbing Sam, but I didn't really understand why they wanted to take two cars just to pick him up. He could feel just as bad waiting here and not wasting fuel.

"What are you getting?" Jae asked walking backwards towards BM's car.

"Probably subway," I shrugged. Sam loved Subway and I could get it with little to no dairy products.

"Oh sweet, can you get me a sweet onion chicken teriyaki, just put all the salad on it I'll pick off what I don't like," he called before getting in the car.

I let out a sigh and got in my own car making my way down to the shopping centre to get everyone food. There wasn't a long line in Subway which was a relief, they had two people making the four subs I ordered; Jae's sweet onion, BM's Meatball, and two chicken and turkey melts, one with cheese and one without. I wasn't really sure how he was going to feel about the dairy so I figured to get him two. It's not like he wouldn't eat them both anyway.

I waited until I was closer to the hospital to find a coffee shop. Charlie likes to nurse her drinks and if it was warm when I gave it to her it would be cold before she finished it. I got everyone coffee, except Sam who got tea. Once I got to the hospital I paused, how was I going to carry all of this up to his room?

I slid the bags of sandwiches onto one arm, held the tray of four cups in the same hand, I put my own coffee on the roof on top of my car while I grabbed my bag and locked it. I headed towards the entrance but turned around halfway when I realised I'd forgotten my coffee.

BM

Charlie and Sam were asleep when Jae and I got to the room, The two were spooning, Sam's bad side draped over her waist.

"Wake up lovebirds," Jae all but yelled walking into the room dropping on the bed Charlie was supposed to sleep in.

"What time is it?" Sam asked. He sounded awake, and he looked like crap; I was guessing he hadn't slept much last night.

"Almost ten," Jae shrugged.

"Too early," Charlie mumbled.

"I thought Thea was picking us up?"

"She is, she just went to get you breakfast and coffee,"

"So why are you here?" Charlie huffed sitting up.

"Jae wanted food,"

"And BM feels guilty," Jae added.

"So you should," Charlie stated sitting cross-legged stretching her arms above her head.

"Charlie," Sam sighed.

"What?" she shrugged.

"It's not his fault,"

"No she's right," I nodded.

"She's not, it wasn't entirely your fault, we are all adults and we chose to sword fight," Sam stated.

"And BM chose to stab you," Jae nodded.

"Could you shut up?" Sam frowned at him.

"I could," he nodded.

"But you won't," I added.

"You know me so well," he beamed.

"Why are you standing in the middle of the doorway?" Thea frowned from behind me, she was juggling everyone's food and coffee.

"Do you want some help?" I offered.

"I carried it all the way up here, I'm sure I can go a couple more steps without assistance,"

"Except you're Thea and you more likely to just be able to put everything down then you'll fall over your own feet, or gravity," Jae commented.

"Do you want your food or do you want to be an asshole,"

"I can do both," he smiled.

"Here," she handed out coffees.

"Subway," Sam cheered when she handed him a bag.

"Here, eat this and shut up," Thea threw one at Jae.

"Where's the cheese?" Sam poured looking up at Thea who was handing me a sub.

"You've just had surgery, do you think a lactose reaction is wise?" she raised an eyebrow turning her attention to Jae who was pulling half of the sub contents out.

"What are you doing?"

"I told you I would pull out what I didn't want," he shrugged. He hand pull out basically all of the salad stuff except for the lettuce and tomato.

"You basically have a side salad,"

"What's your point?"

THEA

"It's such a waste,"

"Do you want it?" he raised an eyebrow at me.

"No,"

"Then leave me alone, shouldn't you be more concerned about the fact you forgot cheese on the patient's sub?" he nodded toward Sam who was still frowning down at his cheeseless melt.

"I can't believe you left the cheese off," he sighed sadly.

"I didn't think you would want to deal with the lactose reaction," I sighed.

"But it's not a melt without something melted, it's literally in the name," he continued to pout. I was about to hand him the other melt when BM added his complaints to the list.

"This is a meatball sub?"

"You like the meatball sub?" I frowned.

"Well, yeah. But I only eat it on a cheat day," he mumbled.

CHARLIE

I could see her getting frustrated, she was clearly feeling attacked and that's probably why she looked like she was about to cry. She took a deep breath.

"Then I guess today is your cheat day," she snapped.

"Here is your sub with melted cheese, you're all welcome by the way. Anymore complains before I go talk to the doctor?" She was biting her bottom lip.

"You got me a latte," I stated.

"And?" she sighed.

"It's exactly what I wanted," she let out a laugh and relaxed a little.

"I'll go talk to the nurse," she left the room.

"She's so moody this morning," Jae commented.

"Wouldn't you be If you spent most of last night cleaning up the backyard, then went out of your way to cater for us and was thanked by complaints?" BM commented.

"You say that like you didn't also complain," I stated.

"The nurse said the doctor would be by soon,"

"How soon?" Sam asked with a mouth full of food.

"Soon," Thea shrugged sitting in an armchair drinking her coffee.

"Are you in a hurry to get out of the hospital?" BM asked.

"He has been here a few times recently," Jae stated.

"I'm pretty sure he's got a thing for a hot nurse," I joked.

"You don't work here," Jae said before pulling a disgusted expression.

"You just thought of her as a hot nurse didn't you? You sick freak?" Thea accused.

"She could totally be a hot nurse," Sam mumbled.

"Just eat your sub," I rolled my eyes.