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episodicnostalgia · 3 months

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Comic Book Break: The Venom Symbiote

Featured art by Ron Lim: Covers for Marvel Tales #266-268 Mark Bagley: Carnage/Spidey/Venom Poster Ron Frenz: Cover for Amazing Spider-Man #252

I grew up as a Spider-man fan in the 90’s, which means I (predictably) thought Venom was the coolest villain of all time. My Dad introduced me to Spidey’s ‘modern era’ shortly after Carnage first hit the scene, which means the Symbiote villains were a hot topic. As such, my first introduction to both Venom and Carnage would be in the pages of ‘The Amazing Spider-man’ #365, and boy did that issue leave an impression.

You see up to that point my fascination with the web head was moderately new, and I remained largely ignorant to the finer points of his lore. My Dad had just begun to re-discover comic books for the first time since his childhood, and this particular issue was a extra sized anniversary edition, replete with a holographic cover, character histories, and even a handful of bonus stories that were framed around various side characters who could reminisce about Spider-man’s classic tales. It was a handy way to bring new readers up to speed, and it worked well enough on my Dad (much to my approval) for him to continue collecting until the Clone Saga ruined everything. ASM #365 also featured this absolute BANGER of a poster by Mark Bagley. Check it out!

That image was seared into my brain, and two things became abundantly clear to me 1) Those villains were unequivocally, the greatest characters in modern literature, and 2) I needed to know why. Obviously I asked my Dad who those guys were, and he proceeded to explain the basic premise of the Symbiote suit and it’s history with Spider-man. Needless to say, I became obsessed with finding an issue, ANY ISSUE, that featured Venom and/or Carnage; I wanted to know everything about these guys. The only obstacle that stood between me and my goal was my age, as I was still quite young, and I think my folks were just the tiniest bit leery of exposing me to a characters who looked and behaved like, if we’re being honest, bloodthirsty hell demons (or brain thirsty, as the case may be).

As luck would have it, my dad found a pretty fair compromise in the pages of ‘Marvel Tales’. MT was a series that featured reprints of classic-or-topical spider-man comics from days of yore, often with new cover art by a current artist. Since the introduction of Carnage was turning heads towards the Spider-man books (also around the same time the comic book speculators boom was taking off) it was a prime opportunity for Marvel to reprint the issues of ASM that introduced the original symbiote creature (written by Roger Stern). So, my dad bought me several issues (pictured up top, and immediately below) to satiate my curiosity for another year before I finally got finally see Venom himself, and in the mean time I was simply delighted to be reading the origin story as I went.

Since those days, my interest in Venom has wavered dramatically depending on the project/medium/who’s writing him, and I’ve found much of what’s been produced fairly underwhelming; but my admiration of the design for Spider-man’s black costume has remained steadfast. If I’m being (perhaps heretically) honest, I almost prefer the black costume to the original. Something about it just feels so correct for the character, and clearly I’m not the only person who felt as much. Despite some initial push-back, the black costume had garnered enough support by the end of the 8-issue symbiote saga, for it to be brought back as just a ‘regular costume, but with the symbiote aesthetic.’ From that point on, it would feature regularly for several years before Venom officially inherited the look.

And just to be clear, no I wouldn’t ever truly want to replace Spider-man’s classic look, but you gotta admit, the black suit looks mighty slick.

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reaperlight · 1 year

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please tell me more about your 616/Sonyverse crossover ideas that you rambled about here, I want to know more 🙏

(also NEVERRRR apologize for lots of tags, you and I have been in this Venom fandom doing CPR on it intermittently for the last like 5+ years at minimum. we are in this TOGETHER)

@kitausuret

Oh it's not much more than just a half-formed concept, really. One of a billion ideas on the backburner. 😳

The notion is just that instead of the canon ending of Venom 2, one of Doctor Strange's portals open up and Cletus, Frances, and Carnage end up falling into the 616 universe during 616 Carnage's debut and Maximum Carnage.

Carnage informs them they are in another universe.

It quickly dawns on them all that no one knows them here, and it's the early 90s--its like the years they lost to horror and imprisonment they just got back. They are ecstatic at the notion that they can actually live their lives here for real this time.

And people with powers are everywhere here, right out in the open and not getting rounded up by shady government agencies (at least not to their knowledge) so it feels like a fresh start in every way.

Carnage ensures that they won't want for money because all bills are being sent to the first megacorp they came across (which happened to be Oscorp which will no doubt cause problems later but that's a problem for their future selves).

* The Custody Dispute and first contact with the Heroes

They rescue a baby who was thrown off a roof (by a certain SOMEONE) because it's distressing Frances.

When a guy in red and blue spandex shows up and demands the kid they initially refuse because like hell they're going to trust some random weirdo in spandex who just tried to attack them.

How do they know he didn't toss the kid off the roof himself?

Only when Venom arrives do they open up lines of communication.

"...Eddie? Eddie Brock?"

It's Eddie, but different. Not their Eddie. That quickly becomes apparent. But while they chat the guy in the red and blue bondage gear stops attacking them so it seemed worthwhile.

Venom: "You know us?"

Cletus: "We do. We know you, hero. A man of honor, champion of the little guy."

(Not really, he'd trusted Eddie and he stabbed them in the back with that article but this Eddie seemed to be eating it up.)

But it seemed they might have made a friend.

Cletus had wanted to be his Eddie's friend but that hadn't turned out too well.

Back in their world their Venom was gonna bite their head off and their Eddie was going to let them.

Still they trust this Eddie more than they trust the spider weirdo--they are at least familiar even if it isn't their Eddie and Venom but they refuse to give them the kid too.

(Later when they get to know more about Eddie and Peter and the things this Eddie has done, they come to like Peter better. And sure it might be hypocritical to scold Eddie about MJ when he had kidnapped Anne but Frances had told him, shown him it was WRONG and hurting innocents was too much. So if it was wrong for him, it was wrong for others to do it too.)

Right now though they don't really trust either of them. And after years of incarceration, they all know better than to needlessly give out information. Only Eddie had ever made Cletus want to open up about his past--he would not make that mistake again.

They don't give them their real names and Cletus, Frances, and Carnage look different enough from 616 counterparts that Eddie and Peter don't immediately make the connection. They think it is yet another symbiote and host.

(Peter, whining: why did it have to be symbiotes?)

Venom notices that this man's symbiote feels oddly familiar but they know it's but not their spawn, not the one they were pursuing so at first they assume another symbiote somehow found its way to Earth.

Frances and Cletus negotiate the return of the child they'd only give the kid to the kid's family or guardian and only if the family or guardian wasn't hurting him.

Both Spidey and Venom mellow out somewhat when it becomes apparent they don't want to hurt the kid, just want to make sure he's safe. They were just concerned citizens who somehow, inexplicably didn't trust Spider-man (thanks J.J.) It's not like this is Carnage....

Meanwhile Frances proclaims that if a suitable parent or guardian wasn't found they'd raise him themselves if we have to.

(Cletus felt ice in his veins at the notion. Family, its all he ever wanted. But... what if he was like his dad? His family? He never learned any better...)

Eventually Shriek does hand the kid over to his mom.

The standoff ends and Spider-guy and this world's Eddie went off to pursue the guy that tossed the baby off the roof.

They thought that would be the end of it.

They resume their extradimensional honeymoon and eventually find and buy a nice house in upstate New York with Norman Osborn's money to play house in (except this was real, wasn't it? Cletus wanted it to be. He'd wanted this for so long... except he was still him and there was a monster inside of him, a beast that wasn't Carnage but was all him wanted out to taste the moonlight).

And that Spider-guy and not-their-Eddie seem to be keeping tabs on them. Spying on them...

Cletus and Frances are just trying to play house and pretend to be normal but they still have issues and being stalked by the Spidey and Venom isn't helping.

Eddie and Peter are still keeping tabs on them, suspicious...

(Eddie and Venom are spared from betrayal and Ravencroft of 616 in this au because Peter figures he might still need him against this mystery symbiote. Maybe the stranger mentioning that they knew a Venom who was an honorable guy also shames Peter into not being a total backstabbing tool. Maybe there was more to Venom than he thought... or maybe he was just a dick. Peter against his better judgment is becoming closer to his frenemy as they work this case together but also feels guilty because MJ would never approve.)

Even later when other heroes vouch for Cletus and Frances and their symbiote there are unanswered questions and they are uncooperative...

The Issues

-Carnage is bored but Cletus is still pissed at [him/her]* for hurting Frances and almost getting them killed.

Carnage: Why are you mad? 🥺 I am just a little creature. I cannot change this. 🥺

(*Carnage eventually asks to be called she/her like their 616 counterpart. While Carnage doesn't really have a gender Cletus is nicer when he thinks of Carnage as a woman. While he doesn't treat her like Frances like she'd hoped he would there are fewer cutting remarks coming her way...)

Frances is more forgiving of Carnage because she acknowledges she was hurting her with her powers without meaning to and Red also did save both their lives. But Carnage is on thin ice and knows it and quickly learns not to have verbal arguments with Cletus within her earshot.

Frances never learned to control her powers on account of being stuck in a box.

(They end up having to repair a lot of windows and deal with a lot of noise complaints.)

Also Cletus still feels the urge to kill. He was always a killer with or without the monster but the monster certainly wasn't helping matters...

Carnage manages to assuage some of their anger at her by healing and soothing Frances's injuries in the immediate aftermath of the red wedding and in doing so becomes resistant to sonics when he copies Frances's immunity to her own power so no longer has that issue. But there are others--Carnage is bored and jealous and doesn't feel appreciated. And it takes a while for Cletus and Frances to warm up to him/her again. For the most part they just try to live their lives, ignoring the parasite as best they can...

Still for Cletus and Frances, compared to their life before, it's almost perfect.

Frances wants kids.

Cletus goes from disbelief to gratitude. Only later comes terror as it occurs to him that he is screwed up, that his whole idea of family is screwed up. What if he was like his family to them... or worse?

Worried about the prospect he might hurt his family, Cletus seeks professional help.

He didn't know if anyone could help him, he was probably beyond help, but he wanted to at least try, for Frances's sake, for the sake of their family.

He wouldn't make her go though, given her experience with so-called therapists he wouldn't blame her if she didn't want to but he felt he needed this. He couldn't be falling back into bad habits and he still hadn't even processed this whole thing with Carnage...

As luck would have it a name popped up on the Internet immediately--renowned in the field of psychiatry and an advocate for mutant rights and his institute was like right next door...

Asking for help isn't easy but ironically enough he'd gotten better about it because of Carnage.

"I'm trying to find someone who can help me. I didn't... I didn't know this place was a school."

He shouldn't be here.

Cletus panics when he learns the man is a telepath but then learns he can't read his thoughts. They're just too alien.

But he was going to need to tell him anyway, what he was, at least some of it, if he hoped to get help...

It would have been easier if Xavier could have just pried it from his brain.

Nightcrawler: "You're not the first killer he's helped find new purpose."

Carnage: That doesn't sound creepy at all.

Whatever. He needed to do this. He'd do it if he could protect Frances from himself...

Carnage: This could be a cult as far as you know.

Cletus: Xavier was your find, your idea.

Carnage: And now I'm regretting it... we're not wearing blue and yellow.

It turns out Dr. Charles Xavier can and does help him, the X-men help him figure out Carnage too, and they can help Frances learn to control her powers.

The X-men offer to help him to learn to bond and cooperate with Carnage or seperate them if they'd prefer.

Cletus seriously considers separation before Carnage grovels and promises to do better for both him and Frances.

Cletus and Carnage actually bond as they learn to listen to each other and Carnage learns to appreciate Frances.

The X-men let them use the Danger Room whenever they need it and so far against impossible odds they have managed to avoid murder in this place.

He's never had luck like this before. He wants to just be happy here with Frances, with Carnage. But he keeps waiting for the other shoe to drop...

Then it does.

When the two Carnages eventually meet Cletus is horrified and absolutely hates his counterpart.

Cletus is haunted by the notion that that monster shares his name. It shouldn't bother him so much--he already shared his surname with three other monsters. But the notion that that could actually be him... He has plenty of screws loose but how could he ever end up like THAT?

Only later does he realize that unlike him, his counterpart never had an angel come save him, he had no one. Only then does he muster a sliver of compassion but then 616!Cletus views the other as soft and weak, not having the guts to see his vision, and tries to kill Shriek when he realizes she's the reason for his "weakness" leading to absolute well... Carnage by her enraged husband. A no-holds barred beatdown as Peter tries to prevent him from killing his counterpart...

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