#straight fans that will make openly gay characters straight when there’s openly bi character

[eeldritchblast]

They’re Not “Playersexual”, You’re Just Biphobic

(I was going to save this until September 23 because I thought that would be an appropriate date, but the Ask I got included in this essay just put me over the edge. So, here it is now. Buckle up.)

Bisexuality/Pansexuality is the attraction to people regardless of gender. About 4% of the USA alone (over 13.6 million people) openly identify as bisexual, according to Gallup’s latest polling. But unfortunately, bi/pan identities are so scary to some folks that they need to make up terms to avoid calling their favourite characters such. Thus, the term “playersexual” was born: a term to describe a game character who is attracted to the player character... regardless of gender.

If that sounds like it’s just a circuitous way of describing a bi/pan character, it’s because it is.

I first heard of the term “playersexual” almost a decade ago, from a Dragon Age fan complaining that Dorian was gay and thus it was “unfair” that she couldn’t romance him as female character. This fan said they wished BioWare would go back to Dragon Age II’s model of everyone being “playersexual” for “equality”.

Now, if you’ve actually played DA:2 and you’re not a bigot, you’re probably rolling your eyes just as hard as I did when I first read such a ridiculous statement. Well, prepare for this next one:

“When you make a male Hawke, Anders and Fenris are gay and Merrill is straight. Opposite is true if you make a female Hawke.”

These people are so afraid of bisexuality that they cannot even fathom its existence. They can believe in dragons and magic, but they cannot believe that a character is simply bi/pan. I find this especially hilarious for Anders, considering he had a canonical boyfriend, as confirmed both in-game and in The World of Thedas: Vol. 2 book.

I truly thought we were past this nonsense in 2023. I really, truly thought that. But then Baldur’s Gate 3 was released in full, and suddenly these same fuckers came out of the woodwork to bend over backwards avoiding calling these characters anything except bi/pan.

Note how in the above Ask, the anonymous questioner actually doubles down on avoiding addressing these two characters in particular as bi/pan!

“Playersexual” doesn’t even truly work for the characters of Baldur’s Gate 3 regardless, because the definition is oriented around attraction to the player character… which these characters are not exclusively attracted to. Here are some examples that prove otherwise:

If neither Lae’zel nor Astarion/Gale/Wyll are in a romance with the PC, Lae’zel will say she plans on propositioning one of the men for sex at the night of the tiefling party. She also flirts with Karlach in party banter.

Shadowheart expresses interest in Karlach, (“I like her. She looks like she could throw me over her shoulder and carry me to safety, should the need arise”) as well as Halsin if he leaves the party, (“he may have been misguided, but I liked looking at him.”)

Astarion flirts with nearly everyone in the party, but to just pick two examples: he mentions Wyll is the type of princely figure he used to dream about marrying, and says to Shadowheart “such a grim name for such a beautiful flower”.

Gale used to date Mystra. He also debatably flirts with Astarion by offering him some blood, after Cazador’s battle.

Wyll flirts with Lae’zel in party banter, and also refers to Halsin as a “delight” and “hunk”.

Karlach seems to have a little crush on Jaheira by the way she reacts to meeting her. She also says of Halsin, “everyone in this camp wants to climb that oak”.

Please keep in mind these are just a few examples I’ve picked out from screening through the dialogue, and there’s even more that prove the attraction to different genders these characters have is not related solely to the player. It’s just part of their identities.

In the Ask sent to me above, the anonymous questioner said they “cannot see Karlach as anything except lesbian and Astarion as gay.” This is just as bad as saying they are “playersexual” in my opinion, because yet again it’s erasing their bisexuality/pansexuality. Worse yet, it’s doing it because of the way the characters act. You cannot measure queerness based on actions and appearances being in line or not with queer stereotypes—it’s not a scale! And bi/pan folks are just as queer as lesbian and gay men, by virtue of simply being bi/pan!

All in all, I think this entire “playersexual” debate boils down to the fact that some people still refuse to see bi/pan identities as anything but “discount straight”. And that’s why people are rightfully angry when folks try to further this myth by pretending bi/pan characters don’t actually exist.

[blitheringmcgonagall]

The most annoying part of the canon v fanon Sirius debate is that canon Sirius never had a romantic partner but people will insist that he does. I’ve seen bullying over this and that’s when the debate stops being a bit of fun y’know?

I think that we need to let people come up with their own ideas! Bullying is never okay. As I previously mentioned, while we get a reasonable amount of backstory regarding Sirius, he’s most definitely NOT the main character in the series.

Just because we don’t get information about his love life, or lack thereof, doesn’t prove or disprove what his sexual orientation was and whether or not he was interested in dating/sex etc?

JKR clearly says that canon Sirius is not gay for Remus. She more or less invented Remadora to prove this point as apparently lots of HP fans were convinced Wolfstar was canon (but it being the 1990s etc, they thought that she couldn’t say it openly) and she wasn’t happy about it.

I genuinely think all options can be defended:

Asexuality/ace spectrum/Grey-A (canon says he had no interest in girls/boys looking at him and no GF/BF is mentioned in the books)

Gay (for RJL - the whole “embraced like bros, Lie Low At Lupin’s, 40 line stare, buying presents together” etc)

Straight (he’s got posters of muggle women and motorbikes on his wall)

Bi/pan (both of the last two)

Personally I’ve read really excellent ace!Sirius and Blackinnon fics. And as you probably know, I personally think of Wolfstar as canon. @plecotusauritus explains it really well in a humerous post:

Plus, they are the star (brightest star Sirius) and moon (Moony) in canon. And JKR herself confirmed lycanthropy = equivalent of AIDS in 1980s etc (yeah I know, it’s not great and in fact terrible/horrible comparison when you add Greyback etc; but anyway the AIDS link unwittingly despite herself gave Remus a non-straight background, in fact the way she wrote Remus and Sirius had the director assume Wolfstar was canon!)

Having said all that, in canon, while the classmate was ogling Sirius, he was completely oblivious of her interest as he was too busy staring at James Potter. Ahem. Make of that what you will…!

I completely respect you thinking he never had a romantic partner. Who knows? JKR says that he was too busy playing hard/messing with his bros on his flying motorbike and fighting a war to want any serious relationship. She doesn’t confirm did he have one night stands or other types of encounters. And most people at this stage don’t really care what JKR thinks of Sirius.

The whole point of fandom and shipping and fanfics is to imagine/reimagine all the massive gaps in our knowledge of a character. It’s ok not to stick to the canon info, otherwise the fics we read would be extremely limited, short, and all very similar and boring after a while. I personally prefer when a character’s personality isn’t changed completely (ie when they retain the features that make them recognisable from the original story). But I am very happy to alter other aspects of them - like their race, colour, sexuality, religion etc. Also if you are writing a comedic piece, the characters will not be written the same way as when you write a more dramatic/in depth/ Angsty fic or a very fluffy one?

Everyone should feel free to use their imagination and also not worry about people bullying them for their alternative views. We should all be secure enough in our views that we don’t feel the need to bully others who disagree with us. I’m sorry if that’s happened to you or to people you know 💗💗💗💗💗💗

[real-total-drama-takes]

https://www.tumblr.com/real-total-drama-takes/734732364749602816/nemma-is-bad-because-theyre-turning-noah

Posted this on my account in like two different contexts already haha but I think it belongs here the most (long ass response incoming)

I’m sorry, but I had to respond to this take. The most important thing I think I need to clarify about this rant is that Noah is not confirmed to be attracted to men. Hell, he’s been confirmed to not be gay more times than the opposite. Which isn’t great. Another significant point I use is that it’s very obvious that Noah is gay coded/a gay stereotype. Throughout this rant I will be referring to him as “gay coded”. Go on Reddit or something if you want to research that, but I very strongly believe in that and I think it’s pretty clear through just watching the show. Now, onto my criticism of this take…

“Nemma is bad because it makes Noah straight” is a perfectly logical argument to make. Noah is never confirmed to be attracted to men, so confirming that he is attracted to women doesn’t make him bi. It confirms that he is attracted to women. When a character in a tv show is only confirmed to be attracted to women, they are assumed to be straight. Of course he can be bi. Any character who doesn’t have their sexuality explicitly stated can be bi. However, giving your gay coded (but said to not be) character a girlfriend does not make them “bi coded”, it makes them straight. Nemma is making Noah straight. Any “gay representation” that you could imagine he served is eradicated by giving him an opposite gender partner. “Nemma is bad because it makes Noah straight” is a reasonable criticism to have of the ship because both parts of it can be true. It’s understandable to not like a ship because it ‘straight codes’ a gay coded character in a show that has no real queer representation. (obviously not including the reboot, which I think showed representation fantastically. There’s another post on here by someone about how Bowie calling himself the first *openly* gay contestant means a lot... I’ll try to find it later.)

I also think it’s important to clarify that I personally don’t hate Nemma. I like both Emma and Noah as characters, I feel neutral on it most of the time, I enjoy some content of it, and ship hate is something I’ve never been a fan of. But I personally do not feel very positively about it being canon in the show. I mean absolutely no hatred towards the shippers. If you have any complaints or arguments about what I’ve said here, feel free to tell me. I’m not that much of an expert, and I should probably be sleeping right now, so I doubt this is as well-worded as I would like it to be.

Ummm that’s it! No hate to op ofc, these are just my thoughts on the issue. Thanks for reading!

.

[worst-t4t-couple]

nightmare blunt rotation propaganda incoming. first of all look at everyone in this picture and try to say with a straight face they're not trans. literally you can't everyone in this image is so trans its insane. from left to right we've got kian, who's second most defining trait is being pretty. you know who else is pretty? men and women, both of which kian stone is to me. she's bi everything. bisexual, bilingual, bigender. she's handsome. he's pretty. she's the woman of your dreams and the man of your fantasies, okay? then we've got Rand. first of all her she goes by her last name instead of her first name. you know who else does that? trans people who can't be openly trans and thus go by their last names so they don't get addressed as their deadnames. source: me. i did that and im the most trans thing in the galaxy. second, she's a led zeppelin fan and every led zeppelin fan i know of is trans. third, she's girlfailure coded. but even so, Rand is so Trans Coded that she could be trans in any direction. Transmasc? plausible. Transfem? plausible. Trans in general with no specific gender binary in mind? plausible. and then Rolan, who is the most not nonbinary-nonbinary character to exist. sure he goes strictly by he/him pronouns in canon, but who cares about CANON? this is a they/it/he individual who's only concrete gender identity is ENTITY. if it lived long enough to discover them, Rolan would've loved neopronouns. definitely would be a bug/bugself neo user. and finally, for the LOVE. okay first of all they all have been friends since they were baby kid children. literally childhood best friends to lovers trope with these guys. also they all risked their lives for each other. Rolan constantly put himself in danger to protect Rand and keep her alive, and then sacrificed himself on the SLIM POSSIBILITY that she could survive if they did. Kian's love for Rolan was so powerful that literally almost every line her monster-replacement had was some form of flirting directed towards them. Rand was angry when Rolan left her after high school because it was meant to be the two of them against the world and the only reason she wasn't angry with Kian when he left was because she knew he'd make something of himself, meanwhile she and Rolan were both uninspired and she found a special kind of kinship with him due to that. ALSO THEY'RE FROM A HORROR SERIES AND THEY'RE DOOMED BY THE NARRATIVE. EVERYONE LOVES DOOMED NARRATIVE LOVERS. plus they're weed guys and everyone loves weed on this website and also they're tragic gays, which is another thing this site loves.

.

[marrfixated]

Ohhh boy I should definitely not post this now because it’s sort of controversial and I’m sleep deprived but whatever.

I’m sorry, but I had to respond to this take. The most important thing I think I need to clarify about this rant is that Noah is not confirmed to be attracted to men. Hell, he’s been confirmed to not be gay more times than the opposite. Which isn’t great. Another significant point I use is that it’s very obvious Noah is gay coded/a gay stereotype. Throughout this rant I will be referring to him as “gay coded”. Go on Reddit or something if you want to research that, but I very strongly believe in that and I think it’s pretty clear through just watching the show. Now, onto my criticism of this take…

“Nemma is bad because it makes Noah straight” is a perfectly logical argument to make. Noah is never confirmed to be attracted to men, so confirming that he is attracted to women doesn’t make him bi. It confirms that he is attracted to women. When a character in a tv show is only confirmed to be attracted to women, they are assumed to be straight. Of course he can be bi. Any character who doesn’t have their sexuality explicitly stated can be bi. However, giving your gay coded (but said to not be) character a girlfriend does not make them bi coded, it makes them straight. Nemma is making Noah straight. Any “gay representation” that you could imagine he served is eradicated by giving him an opposite gender partner. “Nemma is bad because it makes Noah straight” is a reasonable criticism to have of the ship because both parts of it can be true. It’s understandable to not to like a ship because it ‘straight codes’ a gay coded character in a show that has no real queer representation. (obviously not including the reboot, which I think showed representation fantastically. There’s another post on here by someone about how Bowie calling himself the first *openly* gay contestant means a lot... I’ll try to find it later.)

I also think it’s important to clarify that I personally don’t hate Nemma. I like both Emma and Noah as characters, I feel neutral on it most of the time, I enjoy some content of it, and ship hate is something I’ve never been a fan of. But I personally do not feel very positively about it being canon in the show. If you have any complaints or arguments about what I’ve said here, feel free to tell me. I’m not that much of an expert, and I should probably be sleeping right now, so I doubt this is as well-worded as I would like it to be.

Ummm that’s it! No hate to op ofc, these are just my thoughts on the issue. Thanks for reading!

[tobiasdrake]

THE FINAL HANGOUT for Desuhiko. I. Think. I've gotten all of the Baubles up to this point. Going into this chapter, every character has one Bauble left to find for one last chill-sesh with them. The way that lines up looks deliberate.

Like, if this is the final chapter, it makes sense that everyone's last bauble to close out their Gumshoe Gab would be located here.

Oh god, are we breaking up?

You're literally the only character who has shipping tags pop up in the tag list when I go to type your name at the end of the post. Not even Kurumi. So if this is what it sounds like then you're about to break the hearts of approximately 100% of the game's audience.

Yuma has the patience of a saint. Imagine spending an hour hanging out on an empty rooftop with nothing to do but get rained on, while your only companion (who asked you to come here) is evasively trying not to talk to you.

I would have excused myself and bailed after like five minutes.

This conversation is coded as hell. No wonder Desuhiko's the only character with algorithm-prioritized shipping tags. He's gotten closer to a love confession in this brief conversation than Kurumi has in hours of hanging out with Yuma and constantly refuting that she's his girlfriend, anime-style.

This is purposeful ship bait. The game's made clear that Yuma/Kurumi is its OTP. It refuses to shut up about it even though it's moving that subplot along at a snail's pace. But the coding in this conversation is clearly meant to throw a bone to the shippers.

100% "If you get it, you get it. But if you don't then Desuhiko's just being a silly-billy by how seriously he's taking this." A paper-thin subtext with just enough deniability.

And judging by the hashtags, people have absolutely taken the game up on its offer. In fairness, reading into things like this is what you have to do to squeeze even an ounce of same-sex romance out of most IPs. Writers will ship-tease until the cows come home but balk at giving us openly gay/bi characters.

At least we got our cool enby Halara. As long as Kodaka doesn't lose the fucking script in the final chapter and sticks the landing for them, Halara will easily be the best LGBT character he's ever written. (Not that the competition makes that difficult or anything.)

Trust Yuma to be utterly oblivious to the subtext here. It's a long-established character trait that he struggles with understanding people when their behavior doesn't match his standards of normalcy. As is typical of Kodaka's protags, he is aggressively the Straight Man.

The musical equivalent of saying, "No, I will not go out with you, but I would like to be friends instead."

Desuhiko is not taking rejection well. But at least he's not doing that thing some people do, where they'll let someone go on tour with them as a fan while utterly convinced that, if he gives it some time, Yuma will come around and realize that joining the band really is what he wants for his life.

Desuhiko's in too much pain right now to accept Yuma as a fan. But he's accepting Yuma's rejection for what it is. He isn't deluding himself to cling to something that can't be. He's processing his emotions and allowing himself to feel. That's the first step in healing.

He is, however, stonewalling. His moment of vulnerability has passed. The defensive walls are up and stronger than over. Accusing Yuma of only wanting to be his fan out of pity is a defense mechanism.

Yuma has successfully pried Desuhiko back out from behind his walls. He's sorry that they can't form the band that Desuhiko wanted but there is a strong basis here for an incredible fanship, one that could change the course of both of their lives.

Sorry, Yuma. You talked yourself into this. Fortunately, I get to bail and let you two have this private moment together.

As is pretty well established by this point, I don't have a high opinion of Desuhiko. It's personal. He hits too close to home and reminds me a lot of myself at his age. But I can see why others would like him and his dynamic with Yuma.

He's a far cry from what I expected him to be when I met him. I expected a much more objectionable character, especially given Kodaka's track record. But actually, Desuhiko's pretty cool.

[kingofthewilderwest]

Hey! I don't know if you've done these already but do you have any HTTYD sexuality headcanons for the gang? If you've already done a list, could you just link me to it?? tysm

Gosh, I know I've talked about it, but I don't think I've written a list before. So [singing] let's get down to business.

My headcanons tend to be "boring" compared to other fans. Many people like to headcanon based on representation they want or is relevant to their lives, which is totes fair! My headcanons tend to be based as close as possible to canonical behavior. I interpret all media I read, watch, and play through a lore-collecting angle, building my new ideas off "firmly grounded" canonical facts. It's conservative (not politically, but from, like, a "you gotta prove this to me" cautiousness).

I will add small headcanons that I know the creators didn't intend, but I try to make everything closely match canon portrayal and how the creators evoked the characters. This means I tend to treat "if the creators didn't show signs a character is queer, I don't see that character as queer" - simply because I prefer to treat characters as queer when they are blunt, outright representations of queerness. But "if the creators kept the door wide open for something to feel heckin' queer," my headcanon may go there. Not always, but they might.

-----------------------------

Hiccup: Straight. Eyes only for butt-kicking ladies like Astrid. I don't treat it as IC for Hiccup, but I do like Hijack art. That statement ages me, doesn't it?

Astrid: Straight or bi. Depends on my mood. If I'm thinking about Hiccstrid, straight. If I'm thinking about Heatstrid, well. Haha. I know they wanted Heatstrid to be a friendship and I love me a good friendship between women. But Heatstrid is too fun. Give myself Heatstrid as a treat.

Heather: Straight or bi. See above.

Fishlegs: Straight.

Snotlout: I will die on a hill that my boy Snottykins is bi. I mean. Come on. He was a squealing mess around Thor Bonecrusher. Snotlout puts on "macho" airs, which includes how he treats women. It's "manly" to flirt openly with women, right? [eyeroll] I believe he was attracted to the ladies he hit on, but that's the only side of himself he shared, and he dug deep into that "masculine" image. His character arc in DreamWorks Dragons is someone increasingly comfortable opening up and being himself. By RTTE times, he's loosened up enough to drop some falsified hyper-masculine behavior, and with that, we see his attractions aren't limited to women.

He can't contain himself around TB. “I’m just thinking of what could have been. You broke my heart, Thor, you broke it right in two.” *kiss* We're seeing a sincere Snotlout here. He's wearing his heart on his sleeve. You're not telling me someone like Snotlout would kiss someone unrelated to him without being attracted to them.

Ruffnut: Bi. I've seen how she smirks at Heather. I see Ruffnut as a pretty sexual person.

Tuffnut: Aro. Very ace. Which rhymes with mace. OTP Tuffnut x Macey for life. I'm appreciative that Tuff never shows romantic or physical interest in someone else. He's shown distinctly differently than others there. And he seems content where he's at.

Dagur: No one's gonna agree with me on this one but straight. I see Dagur's interest in Hiccup as unhinged obsession, not sexual or romantic attraction. I don't care for the Dagur and Mala thing that happened in the plot, and I headcanoned Dagur as straight from the beginning, but I might as well say: Dagur treats Mala extremely differently when he's interested in her versus his interest in Hiccup. Part of that is character arc. But I also say that's because it's a different type of interest.

Stoick: Straight. But we know he and Gobber are in an honorary relationship. ;) Hiccup's dads.

Gobber: Gay. Any romantic entanglements Gobber had with women in his youthful years I interpret as someone not fully come to an understanding of himself. Gobber clearly knows where he stands by HTTYD 2 times.

[threewaywithdelusion]

Queer Stranger Things Characters

I think it's very odd and interesting how the Stranger Things fandom interprets its characters' sexualities. Like there's this really big push to make all the characters queer, and while I'm a big fan of stories about queer friend groups, I don't think Stranger Things is that story. Especially in canon.

I divide the characters into four groups, based on how likely I think it is that they're actually queer (referring mostly to canon, and a little bit to common Fanon).

Characters That The Narrative Confirms Are Queer: Will. Robin. Vickie. Billy. Eddie. Barb.

Characters That Are Easily Read As Queer: Steve. Tommy. Argyle. Nancy.

Characters Who Can Be Made Queer For Stories: Max. Mike. Jonathan. Chrissy.

Characters Whose Straightness You Can Pry From My Cold Dead Hands: Dustin. Lucas. Eleven. Nancy part 2. Joyce. Hopper.

There are characters who make no list, such as Erica, Murray, Jason, Carol, and more minor characters. This is because we don't know enough about them to fit them into any one category.

First the characters who are confirmed queer:

Will has an entire plot around being in love with Mike.

Robin is openly a lesbian.

There's no way Vickie isn't bisexual, even if Robin has doubts, because narratively her character makes no sense if she isn't a love interest for Robin.

Billy has to be into men in some capacity because otherwise the way he just to bully Steve is just really fucking bizarre. Like cornering this dude in the showers is just really strange behavior and Billy's really intense masculinity is obviously compensating for something (probably partially to meet his father's standards, but it would make a lot of sense if he's gay and trying to hide it).

In my reading of canon, Eddie has to be bisexual. There's no way he wasn't flirting with Chrissy, so I think he's into girls. He also doesn't understand personal space when it comes to Steve, which could be a sign of neurodivergence, but if you add how he treats to Steve to the fact that he's literally flagging then he has to be queer in some way.

Barb is interesting because I don't think the show does anything to indicate she's a lesbian, but the book Rebel Robin sure does and I'm choosing to count it.

Next the characters who are easy to read as queer, but whose queerness isn't necessarily confirmed in the text:

Steve is interesting because I think a large part of the reason people are eager to read him as queer is that he's the male lead. (Kind of. Arguably that's Will or Mike, but when it comes to the older and thus more shippable characters, it's definitely Steve). Also, this man attracts queer people like a flame attracts moths. Both in the sense of them literally being attracted to him (Billy, Eddie, Tommy) and in the sense that he surrounds himself with queer people without seeming to realize it (Robin and Tommy as his two long-term best friends). Seems kind of gay. So his interactions with all of these people make it very easy to read him as bi/pan/queer.

Tommy's actor explicitly said he played him as having a crush on Steve, which has largely influenced the Fanon interpretation of Tommy. Also it explains a lot about his extreme jealousy towards Nancy Wheeler.

Argyle's motto is "try before you deny" and he grew up in California. This dude has at the very least experimented with guys before and in my mind he's pan/generally queer.

Nancy. Nancy is interesting because she makes this list twice. She's commonly portrayed as bisexual (at least in the parts of the fandom I see) but I think she's either a lesbian or a straight girl with no in-between. There's this one post talking about how Nancy comes across as a lesbian suffering from comp-het because the Duffer brothers are two guys who don't know how to write attraction to men from a women's perspective, and I agree. So in that sense, Nancy is either ace or a lesbian. However, if you're reading this on the level of what the writers intended, then Nancy is straight, so she makes this list twice.

Characters who are often/can easily be made queer for stories:

I don't know why Max feels right here, but she does. Maybe I just like bisexual Max head-canons. She obviously loves Lucas, but I think her tomboyishness, her feminism, and her being from California (and thus exposed to more open-minded people growing up) make her easy to make bisexual.

Someone is going to kill me for putting Mike here, but I think it's true. I don't think Byler will ever be canon, not in the least because the Duffer brothers didn't set out to write a queer show. They're going to think that they already have two/three openly gay characters getting screen time next season (depending on if Vickie becomes a real character) and that they've done their duty to the gay community or whatever. I do think Mike is repressed in a lot of ways, but in an "I was raised by Ted Wheeler" way and not an "I'm secretly pining for my best friend way." And I think he and Eleven will be endgame. (I also prefer Mileven over Byler, though I think either way Mike should do a bit of self-improvement first). But I think people like writing stories where Mike is queer for obvious reasons: to put him with Will and because this boy is absolutely lying to himself about SOMETHING and that something being his sexuality makes sense. You could definitely make an argument for moving him up a category. But for me, he is in this one.

Canon Jonathan can't be into boys, because if he were he would have said something to Will by now. That being said, I think Canon Jonathan could be on the ace/aro spectrum and just not realize that's also a type of queerness. Fanon Jonathan is often bisexual and into Nancy/Steve/Argyle.

Chrissy barely appears on screen, so I guess she could go anywhere/nowhere. But because she's a fan-favorite and is commonly shipped with Eddie or Robin, I'm putting her here. We just don't have enough information about her, though I like to think she was flirting with Eddie. (I also like Buckingham quite a lot, but they never spoke in canon and are a purely Fanon invention).

Lastly, characters whose straightness you can pry from my cold dead hands:

Dustin just does not give off queer energy in my opinion. I think he would absolutely sleep with a guy in college as an experiment, but ultimately conclude he likes women. (though you could make an argument for ace-spec Dustin. I just think he's too young for it to be solid yet).

I love a good bisexual Lucas fanfic/headcanon as much as the next girl, but I think Lucas is pretty straight. His interactions with other boys in canon just don't indicate any sort of queerness and I think this man is going to be devoted to Max until he dies (or she dies, if that comes first).

Lesbian Eleven is something that drives me crazy. Obviously to each their own and do what you want, but I hate it. I think what Mike and Eleven had in at least seasons 1 and 2 in undeniable. Whatever happens with them in the future, they did genuinely love each other at one point. And I understand that a lot of people ship her with Max, but I feel like that misses the point of season 3. What El really needed was a friend. Not a boyfriend, not a romantic partner, a friend. And Max was that for her. (Could Eleven realize she's into women later in life? Sure, I guess. But I don't see any grounding for it in canon now).

If Nancy is not a lesbian with comp-het, she has to be straight. Like I said above, to me, those are the only two options.

Hopper is a white small-town cop in the Midwest and he chose to be there doing that job. He's straight.

Joyce has to be straight because of how she acts towards Will's queerness. The way she doesn't understand him in S3 when he says he'll never fall in love. The way she whispers the words Lonnie used about Will like they're bad (and they are Bad, but because they're mean, not because of what they mean, and the way Joyce whispers makes me think she doesn't know the difference).

Like I said, these are all my readings of canon. It's fine if you disagree. Some people have very specific readings of particular characters, but I think these are broadly what the text supports or what fanon agrees on (with the exception of Mike and Eleven maybe, where I think I differ from the general fanon consensus).

I have Thoughts about how the Stranger Things fandom interprets its characters' sexualities, but I don't know what they are or how to articulate them. It's just different from other fandoms I'm in. I'm also new to the Stranger Things fandom (as in, after S4Vol2 had aired) so I don't have a good sense of what has changed over time. But its fascinating!

[olderthannetfic]

Ok, I want to vent about my personal experience with a subset of m/m shippers. I have a lot to say and I'm too afraid to express it to anyone. I have a friend who vehemently despises a particular m/m ship in my fandom (it's not a canon ship by any stretch of the imagination, just a popular fanon one) and she will openly say she hates it if asked and she's been attacked a lot for hating this ship and been called a homophobe and been told to kill herself etc. I feel the same but keep my mouth shut because I'm afraid of the same backlash. (Just to clarify, my friend doesn't seek out this content to hate on. In fact, she'd rather not see it at all and she actively blocks and mutes creators for this ship, she only talks about hating it if anyone asks her about it.)

So here's what I want to get off my chest. In my personal online experience, I have found that m/m shippers are the most pushy, rude and overbearing types of fans. This is not all m/m shippers, or even a majority. Most of them are great and very nice people but when there's bad behaviour, I usually have gotten it from toxic incel types and m/m shippers. I ship m/f of a popular 'bad ass' character that these kinds of incels like to think they identify with (wrong, the character is super respectful to women and is basically everything an incel isn't) but it triggers them a lot to see this guy they look up to being happy with a girl. So I think the incel reaction is self-explanatory.

But this subset of m/m shippers, and I've noticed them in all fandoms, I just don't understand. Their ships are all headcanon, just like my m/f ship. I live by ship and let ship. I mean, people could ship my beloved character with his refrigerator for all I care, that's cool. What's not cool is insisting, forcefully, rudely insisting that anyone that ships him outside the popular m/m ship is wrong.

My ship is headcanon and I have never remotely said anything like "This is the one true otp" and "everyone KNOWS X is actually straight". But I see this sort of thing all the time from the m/m shippers.

I recently saw an innocuous post on Instagram where the OP was giving their headcanons for different fandoms saying "I think these characters are straight, these characters are gay, these characters are non-binary, these characters are bisexual, these characters are aroace etc" and in their "Straight characters" they included Bakugo from MHA (not my fandom but it's a good example). You should've seen the comments tearing into the OP. "Um hello, everyone KNOWS Bakugo is gay", "Yeah no...Bakugo is gay lmao", "Wtf? Bakugo is obviously gay, this is idiotic" etc. And I thought...since when does *everyone know* Bakugo is gay? Pretty sure it's never been confirmed either way in MHA so why this hostile reaction to someone sharing their headcanons?

I've seen similar things in other fandoms including my own.

I understand there's a lack of positive representation of the lgbtq community in anime and manga and I think it's great that people explore characters' sexualities and create a variety of ships for them and create relationships that they can identify with. I've seen my comfort character shipped as gay, bi, straight, ace, pan and I think it's wonderful that people can take this awesome guy and write/draw him in a way that represents them, or comforts them but it's not so wonderful when you're beaten over the head for not making him gay with the other popular male character.

There's this sense of superiority among SOME m/m shippers that I haven't personally seen in m/f shippers in my fandom and it really gets under my skin. I'm sick of being told or implied I'm wrong or inferior because I don't ship m/m.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant but I've never let this out anywhere. I try to curate my online experience as much as possible so I don't run into ships or content that I don't like but sometimes these kinds of people still find me and it bothers me that I feel I can't speak out against them because it feels that any negative remark on m/m shippers, even when it's valid, will be very quickly labeled as homophobic.

--

I mean... where are you hanging out? I promise you that "How dare you not love my canon het ship?" types and many other shipwarring assholes are just as bad. You just haven't been meeting them. Which faction is the most toxic just depends on the fandom and the platform.

[questioning-aspec-culture-is]

who wants to hear me rant about how fandoms treat asexuality and aromanticism for a bit?

To me, it seems like there is no place where amatonormativity is more rampant than shipping spaces. And it's infuriating.

The way many fandoms treat lgbtq+ characters is sketchy at best - there are several instances of explicitly gay characters being shipped in straight relationships, and other such invalidation of sexualities, but that is a wider issue that I won't go into here, because my main issue is the complete eradication of aspec identities.

Aro and ace representation is rare. Good aro and ace representation is even rarer. And I know what you might be thinking. So is gay and lesbian representation! So is pan and bi and polyam representation! But here's the thing. If fans don't like the overwhelming straightness of characters in canon media, they will fix it for themselves in fanon. They will put straight characters in gay relationships. They will put characters who have no canon love interest in relationships (gay or otherwise).

And this is where the problem lies.

In a society where romantic relationships are valued over nearly everything else, it's rare and exhilarating to find characters who aren't in relationships, whether they are explicitly stated to be aro/acespec or not (which is even more rare). And fans invariably take those characters and ship them with other characters, because heaven forbid a character be happy without a romantic partner who will 'complete' them!! /s

It is obvious that to most people, queer representation in media/fandom is important... until it comes to aspec identities. Because the allos don't seem to give a shit about us and it fills me with rage. We deserve to be included in those spaces, and we deserve to have our identities respected in the same way that gay/lesbian/mspec identities are.

And there will always be queer people who say "oh, well if they've not got a canon love interest it's okay... that's not aphobic... if you tell us we're not allowed to have those ships, that's erasing our identities" and yes of course if it's not canon aromanticism there is nothing *strictly* wrong with shipping those characters but just. just have a think for a minute. If you are so openly eager to ship those characters, and you get so outwardly upset when you can't, what message is that giving to aspec people? you're telling us that unless there is a 'valid' reason not to, you think that being in a relationship is necessary, normal, the default state of things. You are upholding amatonormativity and yes, that is harmful.

And that doesn't only hurt aspec people!! not even allos are in relationships 100% of the time - when you're pushing this agenda, it is harmful to everyone. We need to de-normalise the need for relationships. Characters and people are allowed to be single and live fulfilling lives and not need to have a partner!!

thank you for reading my angry rambly rant i hope it makes sense and if you are allo and think i am being too harsh i do not care because i am fed up of you overlooking and outright excluding us <33

allos are welcome and encouraged to reblog but I would ask that you don't add on! aspecs I would love to hear your opinions, if you want to add anything to what ive said :)

[hellomynameisbisexual]

“back for a minute. i’m bi. congrats for forcing an 18 year old to out himself. i think some of you missed the point of the show. bye,” the British actor wrote.

His declaration came following months of relentless speculation, discussion and obsession from fans around the actor’s sexuality.

Heartstopper premiered on Netflix earlier this year as a streaming adaptation of Alice Oseman’s graphic novel of the same name. The series follows two boys in high school, Charlie (Joe Locke) and Nick (Connor) as they fall in love and navigate friendships, coming out and questions of identity. The series was praised for its sweet and warm depictions of young love— particularly the exploration of Nick’s bisexuality—and for its diverse cast of queer and trans youth.

But until now, unlike many of his castmates, Connor hadn’t publicly identified his sexuality. And many fans seemed to take issue with that absent label, particularly when images of Connor holding hands with actress Maia Reficco circulated in September with suggestions that the actor was straight playing gay—despite bisexual people who date other genders definitely being real! Connor temporarily left Twitter due to the public scrutiny and accusations that he was “queerbaiting.”

Ultimately, this entire situation shows a fundamental flaw in our cultural expectation of what makes for “good” queer representation onscreen and off, and how we still have some work to do in its understanding of identity and representation.

What does queerbaiting mean?

The notion of queerbaiting is pretty nebulous these days, with fans quick to use it in reference to everything from Harry Styles’s magazine covers to Madonna’s TikTok.

But in its origin, queerbaiting was meant to describe a marketing technique, often for a piece of media, that hinted at queer content, but didn’t actually follow through. For fellow members of my very specific generation on Tumblr, the prime example is Supernatural, a show that teased a central gay relationship between Dean and Castial, but didn’t pay off until the series’ end. Or the BBC Sherlock series that features its fair share of longing glances between Watson and Holmes, but no actual acknowledgement of anything queer going on.

But it’s a lot more complicated when we start talking about real people. Were Queer Eye stars Jonathan Van Ness and Antoni Porowski queerbaiting when they teased a new brand partnership with language and social media posts that hinted they were dating last month? Is a straight—or at least apparently straight—actor queerbaiting when they play a queer character?

To put it simply: no! A straight or straight-passing actor playing an openly queer character is not queerbaiting! It’s a whole different thing, and the fact that that term has continually been tossed around shows fans’ fundamental misunderstanding of what’s going on here. The entire situation with Connor highlights a reductive sense of identity politics when it comes to queer (or not) actors and the portrayal of queer characters. In 2022, it’s not as simple as queer actor playing queer = good, straight actor playing queer = bad.

When straight playing gay is okay

Yeah, there have been some pretty egregious examples of straight/cis (or apparently straight/cis) actors playing queer or trans characters (hi, Eddie Redmayne), but there are a slew of actors who are celebrated for playing queer despite all indications that they’re straight. Fans cheered when director Rian Johnson described Daniel Craig’s Benoit Blanc from the Knives Out films as being queer. And Cate Blanchett (who my partner described as being married to the most boring-looking man in the world) is garnering rave reviews and Oscars buzz for her climactic turn as a lesbian in Tár—just as she did a decade ago in Carol.

Those two know what they’re doing, have stated who they are and have also demonstrated a fondness and allyship to queer folks again and again (just look to Blanchett’s many interviews on the subject and Craig’s noted adoration of gay bars alongside wife and fellow frequent player of gay, Rachel Weisz).

“I will fight to the death for the right to suspend disbelief and play roles beyond my experience. I think reality television and all that that entails had an extraordinary impact, a profound impact on the way we view the creation of character,” Blanchett told the Hollywood Reporter in 2018.

Blanchett’s comments speak to the ideal world I and many others aspire to when it comes to representation in film: queer actors can play straight just as a bisexual actor can play gay or a straight actor can play bi, so long as they’re doing it right. I like to optimistically think we’ve moved past an era of queer people only getting cast (and paid) for queer roles.

But one key thing separating Criag and Blanchett from Connor is age. He’s 18. I don’t know about you, but when I was 18 I thought I was a very different person and used very different labels to describe myself than I do 10 years later. At that time in my life I leaned toward avoiding labels altogether, because I didn’t know which one quite fit.

One of the great things about the progress we’ve made as a culture in LGBTQ2S+ representation is how we don’t have to put people into neat boxes any more. Genders change. Sexualities change. The words we use to describe them and ourselves are constantly in flux. It’s an exciting time to be a young person, because ostensibly you don’t have to have all of the answers right away. You don’t have to “come out” as straight or gay or anything until you’re ready. It’s part of the reason young people are increasingly identifying as non-binary: why stick to one gender and box yourself in?

It’s the sort of utopia so many of our queer and trans ancestors who came before us have fought for. Or so it seems: what happened to Connor shows that fans haven’t moved as far forward as maybe we’ve hoped.

I ran a fandom Tumblr account for years, so I understand how important and meaningful it can feel for the person who made your favourite piece of media that reflects your identity to also reflect your identity themselves. But it’s more complicated than that, and we’ve got to remember that performers are real people—and in this case a young person just coming into adulthood with this huge spotlight on him. Give them time, give them grace and celebrate the fact that they get to figure this out on their own.

When they’re ready, they’ll tell us.

[evergardenwall]

The new Jason liker is back! Honestly-- maybeeee jasico is winning out after scrolling thru some blogs 👀👀👀

If you have a second, love to hear why you love the ship / what drew you to it

oooohh 👀 feel free to share more of your jason thoughts here! i would love to read them :^)

as for my jasico journey. well. there's how i was first drawn to the ship when i was younger, and there's how i actually joined the fanbase and read fics when i revisited my pjo/hoo phase in 2021....which makes not just one but two origin stories!

so. first of all, you need to know that when i first started reading heroes of olympus, i was already obsessed with nico from reading the pjo series before, and also related to him a lot re: the rejection he faced and his feelings of alienation from both camp half-blood and camp jupiter....it's actually mind-blowing to think abut how my eleven years-old baby queer (who didn't know they were not straight yet) self completely latched onto him, both had a crush and projected onto this character, would spend hours looking at fanart and have their friend drawing shippy art of them with him-- yes, this is a thing that happened (and yes, i was one of those younger nico fangirls back in 2014... kind of cringe, i know, but that's part of why i still am attached to him to this day! he is so important to me! and hey, i turned out not to be a girl so 👀). LIKE. hello. younger sam. i know what you are

and then, house of hades happened; the cupid scene and nico having a crush on percy and actually becoming canonically gay had a stupidly huge impact on me. like, yeah, heroes of olympus is objectively the least good series riordan has written in terms of writing quality, but i would not be the same person today if hadn't read it 😞 and it's my favorite rip

i remember reading hoh for the first time back in february 2014, after a day out in paris with my grandmother during which i had dragged her to a bookstore because it had just been published in france, and feeling shaken to my core -- in a good way --, so closely drawn to this character for a reason i could not articulate. and there was jason's reaction, the way he also was drawn to nico, and his support for hades' son, later sealed with the chalice scene in blood of olympus. which was probably one of the gayest jasico scenes. btw (in my opinion, at least. and frank's pov is so fucking funny). so i was like... 'oh my god. jason and nico. [cannot articulate why they love the later beginning of friendship they have going on so much]' and completely latched onto them, but without realising it nor sharing it with other fans this time! because i was too embarrassed!

i already liked jason as a character before the cupid scene, but his chapters in house of hades and blood of olympus as well as his whole identity crisis storyline, torn between greeks and romans, made me love this character even more. imo, his best scenes are in these two books (although after re-reading the lost hero, i have grown to appreciate this book's jason a lot... thinking about when he meets thalia and the moments with leo 🥺)-- and i loved his dynamic with nico. i didn't openly ship them, because i was too intimidated too explore non-canon pairings back then, until i got into jercy on wattpad (it was certainly another time wdxwshdjs). at this moment, not only reading these silly little fics made me more confident in being a jason fan who read him as bi (because i was 13-14 back then, and all my friends at the time thought he was lame and straight), but it inspired me to write a tiny jasico fic, which i never finished but hey, the passion was there :)

after that, i got into so.langelo for a couple of years-- i wasn't familiar with archive of our own, nor fluent in english, which didn't help me finding content besides from minuiko's work (i regularly stalked her blog despite not having a tumblr account) and amvs with stolen fanart on youtube, so i ended up continuing to keep my interest in jasico for myself. seeing nico having a canon boyfriend when toa started releasing had me very excited, although i didn't really care about will..... (whereas i strongly dislike so.langelo but have a lot of headcanons about will as an individual character now. lol.)

fast forward to 2021: for a reason i can't remember (perhaps the first pjo adaptation news? having met my cousin's girlfriend and talked about the books -- and jason! -- with her very enthusiastically? someone putting random fanart on my dash? the world will never know), i decided to start re-reading pjo for the first time in a while, and because i was finally on tumblr, i decided to look at the different tags to see if jasico had a fanbase... and fell into the rabbit hole! and here i am now, sharing conspiracy theories 😞 /j

more seriously, my 2021 obsession with jasico was the first time i actually gave coherent thought to this pairing besides from the Vibes i was getting when i was younger, and rediscovered the things that made me love each character when i was younger. and oh my god, jason... i projected onto jason so much.

it was very comforting, too, like reuniting with old friends, and somehow made me understand a new thing or two about myself. i love the parallels between jason and nico's storylines and how compelling their pairing is from a narrative viewpoint. like. it makes SENSE. on that topic, i will never stop linking this presentation because it analyses the whole thing so well and i wish i could be this articulate instead of just being like.... poetic cinema reaction picture dot jpg. (my mutuals are way smarter than me. go follow them 🔫)

but anyway, long story short: jasico is very Good and i'm glad to see it's kind of becoming relevant again? <- i am unsure of whether we're witnessing a renaissance or if it's just my dash having a mass hysteria event... but i *am* seeing jasico posts getting more notes than usual and it is intriguing so 👀

[squeamishnerd]

I'm curious. Because you seem to like tododeku. What do you think of the possibility of them becoming canon? Like even if its a slim chance? Do you think Horikoshi's level of 'not giving a fuck' would make him see the potential behind the ship, or do you personally think that he's afraid? Just wanted your thoughts on the matter. Its been teased so much that I personally don't understand why more attention isn't being brought to their relationship when those "Deku is straight" people treat it like it's impossible.

I have a lot of thoughts about this, so I'll try to break my thoughts down into comprehensive text.

The first thing I'm thinking about is how Horikoshi isn't afraid of creating queer characters in general. Tora (Tiger) is a trans man, Mange was a trans woman, and Magne's friend (who was shown in just one tiny scene right before Magne died, iirc) was implied to be a trans woman or maybe transvestite. Toga is openly bi/pan, and no one seems to think of that part of her as odd, so sexuality doesn't seem to be a super big deal within the story's universe. So he has created a narrative of queer people existing, and sexuality not being a too big of a deal.

Those are some things that make me think that Horikoshi could have one or a few of the characters of the main cast being queer.

On the other hand, we're talking about the shōnen genre here, and while having background characters being queer in shōnen isn't super unusual, it's very unusual to have main characters being queer in this genre.

And one thing that really confuses me is that both Todoroki and Kirishima could be gay. The probability of two main characters being queer is extremely slim, and both Todoroki and Kirishima are among the top main characters. It's way more likely that for example Jirō is queer, since she's not a main-main character, if that makes sense?

The reason I think Todoroki could be queer is because of how he seems so interested in Midoriya, on an Uraraka-level but not out-spoken. He's also very awkward around Hawks, which could just be him fan-boying, but to me it seems like he has kind of a celebrity-crush on Hawks (and the examples in that link isn't all of it, Todoroki is also very nervous about Hawks standing close to him when they're talking to Endeavor at the hospital). Though celebrity-crushing doesn't have to say anything about actual sexuality, Horikoshi still made a choice of putting this in the story.

When it comes to Kirishima it's that he likes 硬派 (kōha, roughly "tough guys" or “hard-liners”, there's no exact translation), according to his character description, and it feels like it's trying to hint at Kirishima being gay. Though 硬派 isn't necessarily a word referring to men liking men, the history behind the word still gives it a somewhat homoerotic connotation.

Another example of him hinting at a character's sexuality in the character description is that Nejire likes lilies. And the Japanese word for lilies, 百合 (pronounced "yuri"), can also be used to refer to women who like women. And her bestie Haya Yuyu is said to like cute things, and also thinking that Nejire is the cutest thing in the universe. So, the character description has hinted at the sexuality of these two characters, so it's not too far-fetched that Kirishima's character description is supposed to do the same.

And this is the main reason to why I'm not sure about if Todoroki could be gay (or bi or something else). I feel like, if Kirishima is gay Todoroki isn't, and vice verse. Simply because it feels so unlikely to have two main characters being queer in a shōnen manga.

And then, on top of this, say both Todoroki and Kirishima are gay/queer, the chances of Midoriya being it too is really, really unlikely in that case. And then we have Bakugō, where it has been outright stated that he's not interested in women (though, this was in the light novels, so it might not be entirely canon). And this manga doesn't feel like the "everyone is queer" type of manga.

Alright, I've been talking a whole lot now. What I'm trying to say is that: - There are queer characters - Sexuality doesn't seem like such a big deal - Within the main cast there are hints at queer characters - BUT it's very unlikely that more than one character within the main cast is queer

So, I'm not seeing a romantic relationship between Midoriya and Todoroki becoming canon, BUT there's a chance that Todoroki is still gay and crushing on Midoriya. And, if Horikoshi feels like he has the time to work with that (he has said before that he wished he had more time to work on relationships, romantic and otherwise, but that the main plot is making it hard to do that), hopefully we could see something explicitly stated about Todoroki's possible feelings for Midoriya. So, even if Midoriya ends up with Uraraka, or someone else, or no one, Todoroki could still be gay (or bi or etc), and that would be a win no matter.

I also think it's kinda funny that Midoriya is apparently too much of a nerd to notice that people like him, as stated in chapter 347. So, he's obviously oblivious to Uraraka liking him, so if Todoroki likes him too he's completely unaware of that too.

(Sorry if some parts are hard to understand. English isn't my first language and I wrote this very quickly, so there might be a bunch of grammatical errors.)

[alarrytale]

I think anon is overexaggerating about Nick saying he is straight many times. Context is really important. When he was doing PH him and Sofia didn't have a PR relationship but they played up to the cameras, like all actors do, to sell the movie. The media did the whole "are they or aren't they dating" thing. In an interview Nick made a comment about ex girlfriends and Sofia gave him a funny look. It threw her off lmao. Iirc he also made a comment about being straight during PH era. In his more recent interviews the interviewer was really pressuring him to talk about his sexuality and it was uncomfortable. The interviewer kept assuming his sexuality and he didn't correct them. Then there was a tweet about being an ally when he worked with GLAAD. I'm not saying that he isn't straight but I don't find that proof enough that he is, or him saying he had a crush on Anne Hathaway when he was younger or whatever. He hasn't said anything that Louis hasn't said when pressured to talk about his sexuality. So I'm still keeping an open mind. If he starts making out with women and shows sexual chemistry towards them then I'll change my mind. But not based on the context of the interviews alone. Would love to hear your opinion of the Variety interview Marte! Also, just like HL's fandoms he does have het fans who try and shut down any talk about his sexuality and ship him with every woman but at the moment they seem the minority. It might change as he gets more famous.

Anon, you are going to roll over laughing at the anon i got seconds before yours. Nick's spokesperson and head of his straight defense squad just sent an ask. Giggles under the cut.

Nicholas has openly stated that he doesn’t care to be followed the way other celebrities are, that he wants his work to stand alone for what it is and that he likes to do his own thing.

It’s baffling that new fans are sitting here saying things like ‘cite your sources for us, there’s so much information, but I choose not to believe in any of it anyways because I’ve already decided he’s gay’. Simply say that you don’t care about him at all.

I understand you found a hot new guy to project all your fantasies and insecurities onto and now that Harry and Louis have essentially cut all ties with larries you all need a new project, but Nicholas isn’t going to be the one for you guys to fuck around with. He’s not indebted to the queer community, he doesn’t owe us anything. He’s a character actor moving from one thing to the next and he does not care about whether or not the 46 larries that still exist will hype him up or promote his projects. The work he has coming out in the next year is going to catapult him far beyond what larries think fame is.

Well, hello again. Asdfghjkl.

I have no horse in this race. Like i've said before i don't really mind what he identifies as. I just like him as an actor and as a person, from what i've come to know. And like i said just minutes ago, i haven't formed an opinion yet. Why would i lie about that? I could just say i think he's gay if i did? I don't form opinions on guesswork and stereotypes. And why are you so defensive? You do know that he still might be queer even if he's proclaimed himself to be straight mulitiple times? It wouldn't be the end of the world if he was queer. He'd still thrive and have a large fanbase who'd support him, including 46 larries. Even if that's not his goal.

And to you the first anon, i am inclined to agree. Context and knowledge on how the business operates is important. Saying that he had a crush on AH means little to me. He might be gay or bi/pan and closeted.

I'll give you my opinion on the variety interview when i get a chance to listen!

[dog-lover22]

Title: My Pride status

I know Pride month is over, I figured I should still do something LGBTQA+ related. I have my characters with the flags and now it's my turn. I've seen deviants when they openly show what they're a fan of and a few others such as orientation, hobbies, interests etc; but me I'm very quiet about my life style, I'm a fan of a few things but not a die hard fan. Anyone of the LGBTQA+ community is welcomed on my page  As long as you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you. About the picture: Background: I've always been a fan of the rainbow flag, even before I found out what it meant. Straight Ally badge: I think of myself as a straight ally. Bi Curious flag: Well I like a bit of boob, but I don't mind being kissed by a guy or kissing a guy. I even make gay references without feeling shame, and I would watch a woman strut by and smile... I asked someone for help for picking the flag I've drawn myself in Family guy style. I should make a video explaining a bit more about myself. And I'm proud of who I am

[moosensquirrel]

Alright, here comes another rant of mine because once again, a part of the Supernatural fandom has gone too far. (Scroll down past if you don’t want to read plz)

Hellers, answer me this. Why do you claim to be fans of the show when you so obviously are not? I’ve seen countless hellers openly admit to skipping the first 3 seasons of the show (which are VERY IMPORTANT as they establish the main characters, their backgrounds, their motivations, and the world in which this show takes place). I’ve seen you tell others that the first 3 seasons aren’t important and that they can skip then (again wrong).

I’ve seen multiple people say that they skip any episodes that do not contain Cass (lol which is so many you’re missing like 90% of the storyline, especially in later seasons).

You hate the fact that the show was about FAMILY LOVE and the love between Sam and Dean and try to shove romance into the plot where it doesn’t belong/is not needed. (Speaking of LGBTQIA+ you to realize that asexuals do enjoy seeing non-romantic mainstream shows right? And to try to say no the shows about romance and if you don’t see that you’re homophobic etc etc)

You go out of your way to openly criticize the actors/people behind the scenes who don’t agree with your viewpoint, even going to far as telling people they should kill themselves/should have aborted their daughter etc (I’ve already ranted about these so let’s move on).

I’ve seen you use stupid things such as the color of someone’s shirt, the way someone sits/lays on something as showing how “gay” or “bi” they are (which is horribly stereotyping which I’ve also seen multiple people who are gay/bi call out out for).

You ignore actors who have told you MULTIPLE TIMES that their character is STRAIGHT and a LADIES MAN, and how he NEVER PLAYED THE CHARACTER LIKE THAT all because it goes against your narrative of how your ship is totally cannon in the show.

You attack others who don’t ship your ship, calling them homophobic (even if they are, in fact, part of the LGBTQIA+), you cry about how it’s for REPRESENTATION even while completely ignoring cannon gay/lesbian couples unless they support the narrative you’re trying to spin.

An actor says “love can be anything, it doesn’t have to be romantic” and accuse him of being homophobic.

You’ve gone as far as using the color of a characters clothing IN A SHOW THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPERNATURAL as proof that your ship is cannon (seriously that stupid “omg it’s hunter green and angel blue it’s so saying our ship is cannon” was ridiculous and over the top)

Your sub section of the fandom is one of the most toxic, abusive things I’ve seen in my life.

You’ve all just shown that you didn’t really like Supernatural, you like the version of Supernatural that you built up in your fanfics and in your echo chambers of shipping buddies. And when the real show ended without making what you thought was going to be the end game relationship real, you all exploded.

You’ve taken a character I used to love, who I thought was a badass and turned him into a crying lovesick teenager who I can’t even stand to see. All because you insist on shoving your narrative into a show that never fit it in the first place.

Thank you for reading my rant (if you did) I might add more later, but I’m done for now.

(Also don’t come @ me with “YOU SHIP WINCEST” as a legit answer, such answers will literally be ignored)