#that specific Ganondorf is in THREE OTHER GAMES! WHO IS THAT IF GANONDORF IS SEALED UNDER HYRULE CASTLE

[pa-pa-plasma]

zelda blasted moldugas in the gerudo assault scene, it was a group effort between her sonia and rauru. you can see the light coming from her hand. they just channeled it through rauru bc he was/is the chosen hero from that era

I saw that as them just giving him the power to preform such a massive attack rather than Zelda herself blasting them (probably supplied by the sage stone thing which i cant remember the name of). I'd have to rewatch the scene to check (the only one I rewatched was the one where Fi's theme played) but if she seems surprised I take it as more of a "oh shit i/we have that much power??" rather than a "holy shit my attack personally killed all those moldugas" kinda thing. it was Rauru's attack, Sonia & Zelda just supplied an extra power source.

[cutebutalsostabby]

iirc you said in another post that the time between ALTTP and OOT was either 80 or 400 years. i haven’t played ALTTP yet but love timelines - are those numbers in the game somewhere?

I think I came up with those specific figures myself, BUT I do have some in-game and official text basis for them! The reason for the 80 year vs 400 years (or even longer) options is that there is actually some pretty big inconsistency between a) various parts of the game itself, b) the official game booklet, and c) Nintendo's big ole retcon of the Imprisoning War. Or possibly retCONS if we count TotK.

(Idk if you wanted an info dump, but you're getting one lol. THANKS FOR THE ASK!! 💜)

SO. The intro cutscene.

We start by hearing of legends from long ago, about a Golden Power that resides in a hidden land. Many people tried to find it; none ever returned. One day, evil power began to flow forth (we later learn this was due to Ganondorf finding the Triforce), so the King told the sages (originally translated as "Wise Men") to seal the Golden Land away for good. The narrator then describes those events as occurring so long ago that they became legend. Sounds like a while, right?

But then within about an hour or two of gameplay, you meet Sahrasrahla. Sahasrala? Saharasala? YOU MEET MR SALSA. And he ends up telling you a story about the knights that fought to protect the sages and who were almost all killed at the time, leaving YOU, the protagonist, as the last known member of that bloodline. According to Mr Salsa, those events took place only three or four generations ago.

That's not long at all! I mean, the exact numbers may vary depending on whether it's 3-4 generations from Salsa-san's point of view or Link's, as well as whether we give that person a human lifespan or an elf one (ALTTP has some Western fantasy elements, but the later games suggest that Hylians are basically just humans with pointy ears), but that would be where my ~80 years figure came from.

One of the later bits of dialogue then mentions Ganondorf rediscovering the Golden Land after the knowledge of it was lost - which may explain the discrepancy between the intro cutscene and Sahasralah(?)'s own dialogue. (I'm taking screenshots from Youtube FYI - see cutscene compilation here.)

All good so far?

WELP. THEN WE HAVE THE GAME BOOKLET.

By "game booklet" I mean the little brochure thing that used to come with physical games up until someone decided they weren't necessary. Boo and bah humbug. But I digress.

The original booklet for ALTTP, which you can find online, says that the Imprisoning War took place centuries ago. It also adds a bunch of other new lore details, including Ganondorf's last name, Dragmire - which never actually appears in-game. Both of those things are however missing from the truncated lore dump you get in the Gameboy Advance release's booklet:

And then there's Nintendo's Fallen Hero retcon. Lol.

See, the original "Imprisoning War" from ALTTP went something like this:

Ganondorf found an entrance to the Sacred Realm (formerly "Golden Land") and went in. Much like the others before him, he was then stuck there forever. UNLIKE the others before him however, he then randomly stumbled across the Triforce, which offered him the power to make a wish.

He made some unspecified wish along the lines of "I want to take over the world". As a result, the Sacred Realm became the Dark World and started to leak evil magic and demons into the Light World (aka "Overworld").

The knights fought against the demons, allowing the sages to seal the entrances ro the Sacred Realm. Note it's unclear if they even knew about Ganondorf's existence at this point.

Sometime later, Ganondorf manages to partially break free, and sends his alter ego Agahnim out to break the seal on the Sacred Realm and merge the two worlds into one.

And then we have Nintendo's retcon, which introduces the whole idea of the Fallen Hero - as a means of clumsily tying ALTTP to Ocarina of Time. So instead of the above:

Ganondorf publicly swears allegiance to the King of Hyrule, only to later backstab him and take over the castle. He then follows Link into the Temple of Time and grabs hold of the Triforce while the latter goes to take a nice long nap. He only manages to claim part of the Triforce (Power), so his wish remains incomplete. The other parts go to Link (Courage) and Zelda (Wisdom).

Seven years later, Link challenges Ganondorf to an epic showdown and loses. Ganondorf claims the remaining parts of the Triforce and uses them to transform into the Demon King. The seven sages, Zelda included, then seal both Ganon and the Triforce away in the Sacred Realm.

The names of the seven sages (per OoT) eventually become the names of the towns in Zelda II. Any remaining discrepancies are handwaved away as unreliable narrators.

Interestingly, TotK's Imprisoning War is much closer to ALTTP's version than Hyrule Historia's - which makes me wonder if that whole retcon is doomed to be retconned once again. Of course, the Triforce isn't present at all within TotK, but it's also a pretty compelling reason for why seven sages with secret stones couldn't win against the one guy with a secret stone. So there’s that.

But yeah, going back to that initial question: no, there's no specific figure provided for the time between the Imprisoning War and events of ALttP. Just depends on which piece of conflicting lore you feel like using lol.

[the-exhausted-xexandaler]

Tears of the Kingdom hot take; It’s not actually the latest in the canon… it would’ve been the first in a repeating cycle.

I’m not talking about like how Majora’s Mask does it with the Song of Time reverting Link to the start of the three day deadline. I mean a cosmic repetition. Let’s break it down:

Bomb Flowers are commonly seen around the caves and underground, yet only super tech from an ancient civilization can make explosives artificially. Bomb Flowers are also nowhere at all in BotW, but plentiful in TotK. It may be true that the BotW had bomb Arrows and barrels, but no organic bomb flowers.

The master sword broke and was ‘restored’ by the light dragon who (it’s already been a few months since the game came out so spoilers are a go ahead), in other words Zelda, an incarnation of the Goddess Hylia who is said in multiple places to be the Goddess of Light and/or Time. The sword is now filled with so much holy, godly energy that if Link didn’t have his arm on loan from the original king he probably wouldn’t have been able to handle.

Notice how Ganondorf was specifically called ‘Demon King’ in multiple accounts of TotK’s plot and takes an appearance similar to the original Demon King Demise. If Zelda hadn’t been able to restore the Master Sword over 10,000 years, he might’ve conquered the world or had to be sealed by the gods all over again.

Ganondorf is also the origin of all monsters. Bokoblins? Moblins? Hinox? All from Ganondorf’s malice.

Bokoblins in both BotW, TotK and Skyward sword hold similar appearances. About human sized goblin creatures.

While the Moblins of BotW and TotK don’t look like Moblins in SS, the Boss Bokoblins do. Large stocky body that lumber over to whack the incarnated hero with lots of sticks.

Freaking floating islands that no doubt would have been Skyloft and it’s accompanying islands a few thousand years down the road.

The map of the regions in SS matches pretty well with BotW and TotK. Eldin Volcano matches up with Death Mountain in the Eldin and Akala regions to the NE.

Faron’s woods matches up with Lanayru, Nacluda and Faron regions being a mix of both a well forested and very watery region.

Lanayru Desert matches up with the Gerudo region pretty nicely with the exception of the robots and greenery, but oh oh the Zonai have a depo deep underground and a swarm of well learned ladies who could easily learn how to reverse engineer the technology for agriculture and mining especially given the Gerudo highlands that are literally a light jaunt away.

The boss Scaldera is eerily alike a pillbug version of a Talos or more likely to be akin to the Marbled Gohma, a similarly single eyed creature that lives in a volcanic region.

The Mucktorok is a being that creates vile sludge that could poison the resilient Zora, likely would be able to even poison a legendary dragon in a strong enough dosage.

The Gibdos in TotK may be more humanoid and more similar to moths, but Lanayru Mining facility has had an awful infestation by a seemingly immortal species of Scorpions.

Rito species could easily be seen as an evolutionary upgrade to the Loftwings, but could also be seen as a predecessor. The Loftwings aren’t simple birds, but a clever species able to respond to complex instructions and respond to the unique whistles of their chosen riders. This is especially likely as the region might’ve just kept growing colder and colder until the Rito race have to adapt to new surroundings.

Nit every Goron had been corrupted by the Marbled Gohma. The young could have fled Death Mountain after all the corrupted Gorons killed eachother over the Marbled Roast. Maybe becoming a race of nomads like they were in SS.

Zelda was able to restore herself with the help of Link, Sonia and Rauru at the end of the game, so it’s likely the other three roaming dragons that loop around Hyrule (Farosh, Naydra and Dinraal) could regain a modicum of sense in time to help restore a few regions to sense, and all three relate to the elements of the sacred dragons of Skyward Sword (Faron and Naydra have water and ice based abilities respectively, Eldin and Dinraal are fire based, Lanayru and Farosh are electric based).

[jheselbraum]

Totk Ganondorf is a departure from other versions of both Ganondorf and Ganon in that he is not a disruptor to the status quo, at least not thematically.

Like, oh no he wants to destroy Hyrule? It was already destroyed, that's the status quo that got changed between botw and totk by Link and Zelda. Ganondorf lifts Hyrule Castle during his big ol earthquake, sure, but he also returns Hyrule Castle to both the state that it was in during botw (red glowy, surrounded by malice) AND to the state that it was in pre-calamity for that one sequence. What about in the ancient past? The civilization of Hyrule didn't exist, the Zonai civilization had been in that region for thousands of years, and it's the Zonai that Ganondorf primarily focuses on.

Totk Ganondorf is fate. This isn't the first time a Legend of Zelda game as presented the villain as tied to fate but Majora's Mask was pretty literal with it all things considered. But the moon falling in majoras mask is presented as just as inevitable as totk Ganondorf's assault on Hyrule, he's fucking fate. He's specifically the fate that fucked Zelda and Link up initially, and there's thematic importance in Zelda's ultimate plan to stop totk Ganondorf. At no point after Link touches down in Hyrule again is he ever truly alone, it's only when Link goes to fight Ganondorf that he loses the ability to summon sages. In fact that happens twice, Link tries to fight Ganondorf alone twice and both times the sages show up anyways to bail him out. Technically this happens three times if you count the opening sequence.

Totk Ganondorf is literally stuck in the past, lost in nostalgia and continuing a war that he doesn't have to and that's why he thinks he can lure Link into a false sense of security by appealing to his sense of nostalgia, because obviously Link's life was super hunky dory when the castle Looked Like That, everything was great and he didn't have an anxiety disorder and Zelda specifically was super friendly and niceys to him during that time. Obviously Link has nostalgia for that era in the first place.Totk Ganondorf is the old way of doing things, he expects Link and Zelda to be working to restore Hyrule Castle when in reality they live in fucking Hateno and never fucking touched the castle until the seal on Ganondorf started weakening and spitting out gloom everywhere.

He's the old Zelda formula. With Ganondorf back we get temples and sages as well, we get bombflowers and like likes and visual callbacks to Ocarina of Time and I think we've collectively forgotten that botwtotk Link and Zelda are a Link and Zelda that are from a different Legend of Zelda game than breath of the wild and that they lost their original Legend of Zelda game. They know the exactly what Ganondorf is and they know their prophesied role in stopping him, they know the loz formula. They also know that following that formula got them all fucking killed.

Ganondorf thrives when Link follows the old Zelda formula of clearing temples, unlocking sages, and going to fight the demon king alone regardless, and Zelda thrives when Link realizes that teamwork makes the dream work to the point where her millenia spanning bond with the ancient sages pays off and, unlike the calamity, there is no expectation that whoever goes to face the demon king will have to do so alone and that's why Zelda and Ganondorf are foils. Totk Zelda represents the new ways, possibly the new Zelda formula since. It's Nintendo. There's gonna be a formula. But at the very least she represents a kingdom that doesn't give a rats ass about fate and prophecy and sending children into battle alone. When we unlock each secret stone, the cutscene we get isn't some divine instruction, it's the previous very mortal and not divine at all sage saying, in essence, "hey I told my friend Zelda that we'd help her friend in the future can you do that since I've been dead for 10,000 years?" And the one time it isn't the sage in question is Mineru who, you know. Is the sage from 10,000 years ago.

Rauru is ancillary, Sonia is ancillary, Link is ancillary, dialogue between Ganondorf and Zelda or lack thereof is fucking ancillary.

The real fight is between Ganondorf and Zelda and it's over what kind of Kingdom Hyrule is going to be moving forward: Ganondorf's where everything 100% dictated by fate and inevitability and an incredible fucking loneliness or Zelda's cool new Hyrule where everyone is the most free from fate and prophecy that they've ever been and the ones that aren't are not alone and have the support of not just their communities but the rest of the world too.

[ordon-shield]

The Split/Swapped Triforce Theory

The Link we see in Breath of the Wild, and now Tears of the Kingdom is different to his previous incarnations in many ways, and I’m not just talking about the colour of his tunic. Every other Link that we’ve seen through the series starts their adventure with no expectation of being a great hero, of saving the land from evil. No, they set out to rescue a sister, or some children from their village, or their best friend, or a princess calling out for help. It’s only after they set out that they inevitably have to make a decision— does it have to be them that’s the hero? Couldn’t they step aside, and let someone else, older and more experienced take charge? Once they’ve rescued whoever they set out to save, or someone else has arrived to help, why keep putting themselves in danger? Even if destiny says they have to be the one, that doesn’t mean they’re forced to play that role— but each of them still chooses to, proving their courage.

The Link of Breath of the Wild never gets that moment. He’s young when he draws the Master Sword for the first time, years before the return of Calamity Ganon. He isn’t set out on a quest to protect someone he cares about, but instead given the title of hero immediately, and assigned as Zelda’s personal guard. He grew up knowing what was expected of him, and even when he wakes up in the Shrine of Resurrection, his memories lost? One of the first things he’s told is that he is the light that must shine upon Hyrule, and his first glimpse of Calamity Ganon comes alongside Zelda telling him that its freedom will mean the destruction of the world, and that he must hurry. This version of Link is never given that choice that every other version of him makes at some point, never given the choice to be the hero— and is it really courage to fight when you’ve been told your whole life it’s what you’re meant to do?

Though the Zelda series, the three pieces of the Triforce have been present since the second game, which introduces the Triforce of Courage, and at the same time ties Link to it for the first time. The Link we see in the Adventure of Link gained the Triforce of Wisdom by finding its scattered pieces, the Triforce of Power by defeating its previous holder. The Triforce of Courage however, he is chosen to find when the symbol of the united Triforce appears on his hand, travelling through seven palaces and facing his own dark reflection to earn it. This connection only grew stronger in Ocarina of Time, the fourth game in the series, after the Triforce splits when Ganondorf, someone with an imbalances heart makes a wish on it, transforming the Sacred Realm into the Dark World and cursing the temples of Hyrule, the Triforce of Courage is eventually revealed to rest within Link’s body. Further games only reinforced the link between the hero and courage, with the Link of The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and A Link Between Worlds all carrying the Triforce of Courage at some point. A pattern was formed— Power with Ganondorf, Wisdom with Zelda, and Courage with Link.

The Triforce is never mentioned in Breath of the Wild, but we do see it. While its true nature and name have been forgotten over the ages, the inherited sealing power that lies within Zelda. We see it as she defeats Dark Beast Ganon, her hand outstretched as it manifests before her, a burst of light— much like the one we see in Skyward Sword when Link wishes away the Imprisoned— blossoming out and obliterating the Calamity, once and for all. In the true ending to the game, she says her powers seem to have dwindled after holding back Ganon for so long (in Japanese the specific term she uses is ‘withered’), but importantly, she doesn’t say that they’re completely gone, only that they’re less than what they once were. We’ve seen this happen before, as mentioned above— the Triforce can split into its three parts, with the one who touched it acquiring the part that represents what they desire the most. But is Wisdom what the Zelda we see in Breath of the Wild truly desires? Let me remind you, that her defeat of Dark Beast Ganon isn’t the first time we see her access the power of the Triforce. During the defence of Fort Hateno, she accesses it for the first time, the symbol of the Triforce shining on the back of her hand as we’ve seen it do time and time again for other wielders— yet only after she steps between Link and the laser of a Guardian, unarmed and powerless… in an act of courage, which is followed by her leaving to face Ganon alone after Link falls. Where this version of Link was never given the option to choose to be courageous, this version of Zelda, despite being told her entire life that her role was merely to seal the beast once the hero had defeated it, was the one to stand up and make the choice to face Ganon head-on, keeping him contained by herself for a century. If the Triforce she held did split into its three parts, the one that fits her best, the one she would desire is the Triforce of Courage.

There are still two more pieces of the Triforce left though, one for Link, and one for the corpse-like Ganondorf we see in the trailers for Tears of the Kingdom. When we look at Link in Breath of the Wild, we see surprisingly few references to courage in association with him in the base game (and those references come from characters familiar with the stories of previous heroes), even when they might be expected, such as before or after completing a combat trial in a shrine, but we do see some interesting references to another third, from the Goddess Hylia, the original protector of the Triforce herself. When Link exchanges spirit orbs for a heart container or a stamina vessel, what does she say? “I shall grant the power you seek.” When Link faces the dragon Naydra, corrupted with malice, she asks him to “Show what [his] power can achieve!”. Even in his childhood, he had ties to the concept, defeating adults in combat as a young child according to Mipha. In the eighth memory of the ones he recovers a century later, we see he’d defeated a large group of monsters, including multiple silver lynels, presumably alone, and with only mild wounds. Even when we play as him, Link is constantly breaking even high-quality weapons with the strength of his blows. This link with power can also fit in with the changes to the Zelda formula, and the introduction of an open world. Breath of the Wild is a game that’s all about freedom, about having the power to choose where you go and when, rejecting the linear paths and restrictions that previous incarnations of Link faced. Even in the first Zelda game, the full Triforce of Wisdom was required to face the final dungeon. Instead of being forced to proceed in a predetermined path, this Link is the one with the power to break free from the expectations of his past and the boundaries that held them back, exploring on his own terms. To this version of Link, the Triforce of Power would represent his freedom from both his past role as a knight, something that caused him so much stress he stopped talking, and from the fears that hold back the other people of Hyrule, of the monsters that infest the kingdom‘s roads and the many ruins he explores.

Finally, we get to Ganondorf. We’ve only seen a little of him from the handful of trailers for Tears of the Kingdom, but of the many questions and mysteries surrounding him, this theory can answer at least one— why now? Why is it only after the defeat of the Calamity that he seems to be ‘waking up’ or ‘breaking free’ from the place he’s been sealed away in since 10,000 or more years ago? If the Triforce indeed split when Zelda used it to defeat Dark Beast Ganon, we have our explanation— with a piece of the Triforce returned to his body, he’s been able to slowly recover his strength. If Zelda has Courage, and Link has Power, that leaves Wisdom to him, which seems to be reflected in his actions. Previously only acting as a near-mindless beast, with little in the way of strategy other than targeting the technology that defeated him the last time, this version of Ganondorf has good reason to value wisdom, and accordingly, we see him attempt to take out the three things most likely to foil his plans as soon as he can— Link (and his sword arm), Zelda, and the Master Sword that has been his downfall again and again. Even the monsters we’ve glimpsed in the trailers seem to be more organised, and strengthened by his malice. Even his appearance seems to mirror this change, as we see him dressed in golden jewellery and a loose robe , rather than the dark armour of most other appearances, or the thick formal clothing of his Wind Waker version. This gives the impression that, unless he regains one of his previous forms, this version of Ganondorf will likely focus more on his skill as a sorcerer than physical combat to fight Link, as somewhat of a contrast to his Twilight Princess version, who fights physically, only using his magic to possess Zelda and transform into Ganon. He also seems prepared to heal and boost his servants to help them achieve his goals. This falls in line with what little we know about the Triforce of Wisdom from seeing the versions of Zelda that have held it. Admittedly, this is the weakest part of this theory, just because we haven’t seen much of Ganondorf or his abilities in Tears of the Kingdom yet.

In conclusion, Breath of the Wild was all about breaking the conventions of a Zelda game to make something new, and if Tears of the Kingdom wants to achieve the same, shaking up the holders of the Triforce would certainly be one way to do it. Purely talking from a mechanical viewpoint, Link learning to use the Triforce of Power could act as a replacement for the Champion’s abilities in the previous game— a known ability of that piece is to bring the wielder back from a mortal wound, stronger than before, which could serve as a replacement for Mipha’s Grace to give an example. We could even see something as cool as Zelda wielding a reforged Master Sword— after all, she was the one who heard the voice inside the sword. This all relies on Nintendo being willing to take that leap and change things up even more and I’m not sure they’d be willing to do it.

[gerudospiriit]

[Alright. I finished the game a good bit ago, and I’ve been sitting on this thought for a really long time (i.e. almost when I started the game when it came out). So. If you want to read my brain go brrrrrrr about Nabooru and the Zelda series in general, keep going. Otherwise, scroll on. Nothing to see here.]

[I don't know if it's been apparent, but, outside of really enjoying Tears of the Kingdom on the surface and being super glad they improved by leaps and bounds from Breath of the Wild...it also made me super uncomfortable. I've made mentions of my hang ups with how inconsistent the story is when it insists on seemingly making historical references to past games while also erasing said games a few times. But that's...not really where the discomfort comes in. Like sure. I want consistency. I want the threads of history they sprinkle in to connect at least in some viable and valuable way. I'm an English major for fuck's sake. But, the deep down crux of it is more specific.

I've feared this since the first cutscene, and more prominently when I learned more about the new sages that fought with Rauru, and it only felt more and more true as I played through the game: Tears of the Kingdom has either replaced/deleted Nabooru or changed her. Ocarina of Time and basically every other game and that history became obsolete because...they can't happen. If the Imprisoning War is set at Hyrule's founding, and Ganondorf was sealed away all the way until Zelda and Link release him in TotK, we can't have OoT. We can't have TP. We can't have WW. And, if we don't have OoT, we don't have Nabooru.

Unless, with all the similarities to scenes and whatnot from OoT, this whole Imprisoning War is meant to replace the events of Ocarina of Time (and therefore every other game, essentially), which brings me to the second option: the Sage of Lightning from the Imprisoning Era IS Nabooru. Which is very possible because, judging by the cutscenes, AT LEAST this sage, if not all of the Gerudo, turned on Ganondorf for some reason (which may be him attacking their settlements for some reason??? That's an issue for another post re: The problems I have with Ganondorf in TotK, re:re: the mountain of reasons I hate Demise and his silly little curse). Just like Nabooru did in OoT.

Even going by the second less drastic read of what's going on there, it's still...uncomfortable. It means I have to pretty drastically change Nabooru's story to line up with this new telling of OoT (if that's what this is and I really see no way around it outside of what I'll mention later). And I'll be frank: it hurts. It hurts as a long time Zelda fan who ADORED the story it was trying to tell and who has adored this character for so long only to be left with these feelings about it all. It's frustrating to see the devs do so well and so poorly with the last like...three games when it comes to consistency of even the remotest kind when it comes to lore and story. Instead, like plenty of other games, movies, etc., Nintendo seems more concerned with the shiniest new gimmick within a game and cashing in on nostalgia than actually respecting Zelda's story. AGAIN. Tears of the Kingdom was a lot of fun and a top notch game. A HUGE improvement on Breath of the Wild. And if they had just...given the attention to the details of the story and lore to make it more cohesive and not like a big "we're literally retconning everything" which arguable kinda started with SS lbr), this game would have been perfect to me.

But to get off my bitterness a little and discuss moving forward with Nabooru and some just random thoughts about like...what to do? If anything? I might be jumping the gun, and I may not even make anything set in any kind of stone YET in case DLC gives us more to work with BUT. Here are my thoughts.

As much as it irks me because the devs are wishy washy and won't come out and just admit that, since SS, they've basically wanted to obliterate everything established and start anew with new lore, legends, histories of Hyrule, etc. and therefore keep making some serious links back to the old games they've imploded with their new lore without any real connection or explanation, the first option is to treat SS, BotW, and TotK as basically their own separate entity/AU. With so much changing from the lore and motivations to the religion and removal of the Triforce and other pieces of the story, essentially, it is just next to impossible to REALLY fit these together with OoT and pretty much the rest of the series in a cohesive, workable way.

Which means I would probably have to play two versions of Nabooru: one who follows the events from OoT onward, and another that follows the events of the Imprisoning War as the Sage of Lightning (and I still don't even know if it's HER aklsjdflkjaf) and everything else that entails.

The other option is to figure out a way to just...piece this monstrosity together like some poor, Frankensteinian beast and/or just ignore every ounce of logic and just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, go with the flow, and wing the fuck out of interactions to bs something together for her. Whether that's playing the timeline card because fuck how many more did Zelda create anyway with her time traveling or something else? I'm not sure yet.

And I may be jumping the gun. Maybe we'll get so very lucky and DLC will explain everything for us and we can understand wtf is going on here. But for now, I guess stay tuned for more existential crises ft. Nabooru? Ahahha...]

[ryttu3k]

Some speculation on plot elements. Spoilers for the game introduction, the points of interest around Kakariko, the stuff you learn at New Serenne Stables, and the beginning of the first mission (as far as I'm up to), as well as the third trailer.

Edit: Now includes spoilers up to the fourth [redacted] from the quests tarted at New Serenne, and the full Rito quest.

So it looks like the Sages are going to be a big element? I've now explored the four Ring Ruins around Kakariko that are actually accessible, and we know a bit about them now. The special stones, for instance, are likely going to be the titular Tears (the magatama things). The next question is, who will the Sages be?

One of the tablets mentions a few elements: "Wind, flame, water, lightning… and time… Light…" Since there's bits of grammar missing, we can't actually state definitively whether Time and Light are grouped with them, or, more interestingly, if there's a missing seventh element (based on the fact that Zelda lore basically always uses seven, and the fact that the mural in the introduction did show seven Tears!) The first few sages, too, easy enough to work out - the trailer and the four locations mentioned on the map all but confirm that the new sages of Wind, Flame, Water, and Lightning will be Tulin, Yunobo, Sidon, and Riju.

So, who represents Light and who represents Time? And what's the last one? Others used in the series include Forest, Spirit, and Shadow (Ocarina), and Earth (Wind Waker).

Rauru was almost certainly a Sage - it was his arm holding Ganondorf down, and his Tear that Zelda picked up. He could have been Light, like his namesake (…or vice versa), or he could have been Time, or alternatively he was Light and the Tear was non-specific and became affiliated with Time when Zelda picked it up. It's heavily inspired that Zelda in Ocarina is the Sage of Time (she's never given a title, but all her artefacts and powers are largely Time-based), so BotW/TotK!Zelda might have inherited that - and either way, she is the one to teach Link the time-based power of Recall. Either way, the Tear pulled Zelda back into the past, so it was either the Tear itself being Time-affiliated (meaning Rauru was the former Sage of Time), or Zelda herself being Time-affiliated and the Tears being neutral until picked up by a Sage.

Also relating to Zelda, Rauru, and Time - she's been yeeted back to the past. She might help establish the Sages? Man I need to find more geoglyphs. So I guess the question is more, was Rauru Time or Light? If Light, would he need a new successor? (Could that actually be Link? He does have 'the sword that seals the darkness', after all even if the Blade of Evil's Bane is an objectively cooler name.) If Time, then Zelda would be his successor.

For other candidates, working out what the last element is would help. Spirit probably wouldn't be present, since the Gerudo are now represented by Lightning. Forest… might be Hestu, haha. I don't actually think that's likely, given that story-wise, I would have included A Phenomenon around the forest too, to indicate that, so the last one would probably be a bigger deal plot-wise. Earth is unlikely as the two known Sages of Earth were Laruto and Medli, and Zora and Rito are already represented. Shadow, I would think, is my best bet, and a nice opposite to Light; in that case, it'd likely be a Sheikah. There's a ton of options here, although I'd say one of the more interesting options would be Josha, the young genius in charge of the Depths, which would draw the Depths into more plot significance other than 'there's lots of Gloom here'.

As for Ganondorf's involvement, the murals show him stealing a Tear, and he has it embedded in his headpiece. I have a feeling that after the first four, the second half of the game will involve the more mysterious three Sages, or at least two mysterious Sages, with the last one (Zelda, perhaps) needing to get her own Tear (instead of Rauru's old one) back from Ganondorf in able to unlock her true Sage abilities.

An interesting possible angle: Ganondorf was meant to be a Sage. The Tear was his all along. The other Sages disagreed (his connection with Rauru seems to be personal), that's what has caused all these issues. On the other hand, any possible connection between Rauru and Ganondorf is, um, problematic timeline-wise, given that Rauru is meant to be the first king of Hyrule and the Ganondorf from the continuity we know comes from well and truly after… unless this is the very earliest incarnation of Ganondorf and the others just come later? Like he's reborn as the one in OoT, timeline splits and goes on from there… honestly, where the hell does BotW/TotK come in the timeline, anyway? XD;;

And to conclude, MusicBee just started playing OoT's Chamber of Sages. Good timing.

(Needless to say, I'm just speculating here. Please don't spoil me for anything, I'm not very far into the game!)

Edit: Have now done the Wind Temple and found the next three geoglyphs, and we have some more answers!

Zelda in the past was explicitly the Sage of Time. May carry that through. Sonia and Mineru both confirm that Zelda carries both Sonia's Time power and Rauru's Light power; in the flashback the former Sage of Wind shows, we see seven figures that don't include Sonia. It's Rauru in front, Mineru and Zelda a bit behind, and then a Goron, the Rito, a Zora, and a woman who… may be Sonia but may not be, her skin is quite dark and I suspect she's the Gerudo.

So, if Sonia was the original Sage of Time, she may have passed the title on to Zelda for… reasons. Either something happens to her, or she passes it on for other reasons. Maybe pregnancy? We know she and Rauru have to have at least one child for, well, Zelda to exist, and if they don't have any kids already, she would need to at least be pregnant before Rauru dies. (Which, honestly, is just sad. He never gets to meet his own child!)

Mineru's title hasn't been revealed yet, but given that she described herself as being able to separate her spirit from her body, I'm guessing Sage of Spirit? I wonder who her successor will be? A Sheikah would be good representation. The four at the back we know. Zelda will likely carry on being the Sage of Time. Rauru now needs a successor, too. Maybe Link could carry Light as well as Rauru's arm?

An interesting note - Zelda and Rauru's stones are a paradox. Rauru's stone is in his hand. His arm binds Ganondorf in place. The stone comes off and releases Ganondorf. Zelda picks up the stone and winds up in the past, meeting Rauru - who still has his stone. But it's the same stone. It's technically not a closed paradox, since Rauru already has it, but it does mean he absolutely has to sacrifice himself / lose his arm in order for Zelda to eventually get it.

[wildcardjoey]

so, I've had this theory (or theories, rather, that play off each other) for a while and have been working out the kinks and decided to finally put all my thoughts out in writing.

First off, the hero of ten thousand years ago, the sheikah, and the royal family. No one seems to notice that they had the idea for the divine beasts and gaurdians and prepared them in advance. They were expecting Ganon to manifest as he did, when he did. They were prepared for an event that had happened before.

But how could this have happened before? We've seen what happens to an unprepared hyrule. Without the gaurdians, you're still left with a monster of astronomical power that is no longer in this scenario being restrained. If ten thousand years ago they were preparing for a repeat of an even that occurred 20,000 years ago (a ludicrous number, but we'll get to that later,) then it must have been stopped in the past, so how was it stopped then?

Positioned in three out of four corners of the map are complete skeletons of long dead beast. Each resembles the skeleton of a known benevolent servant of Hylia seen in other games. Around Lanayru tower, we see the usual uptick in scattered leviathan bones normally reserved for regions where you would find a completed skeleton.

Taking the uptick in bones around Lanayru as an implied fourth skeleton, we get four leviathans located in simmilar areas to where the divine beasts would later be positioned to strike Ganon, and many more scattered leviathans located closer to Ganon but still near the completed Skeletons.

I believe the levianthans paid the ultamate price in wounding the Calamity, the weaker ones buying time and being ripped to shreds as the greatest of them prepared a four pronged strike on the Calamity, ones that left them exhausted and costing them their lives. These events would inspire the creation of the divine beasts and gaurdians.

Why don't those three brothers know this story? Either it may have been forgotten durring the calamity, or they do know it and simply don't take it at face value. They're scientists who recognise that that story may simply be a way people in the past explained the bones that very clearly dot the landscape of hyrule, and most would not assume they simply died of natural events because similar creatures also feature as powerful beasts that aided or were aided by heroes in their religion.

The second is related to that number... 20,000 years ago. That's two entire irl recorded human histories worth of time and neither would have been when Ganondorf was sealed by the green-arm-energy-producing gold band, as the arising of the Calamity is a symptom of the seal on Ganon allowing his malice to slip out and build up over time.

A known symptom of linguistic and mythological drift is it can leave a story taking place entire exponents of time further in the past than the events that inspire them. It's more likely for the events described having taken something more like a millenia apart.

So Ganon arrises every 1,000 years? Even with linguistic drift, that seems hard to not have as a known peice of history.

I don't think so. Another known tendency of myths is events being added. The events as described in ballads and legends of the hero of ten thousand years ago always sound almost too thorough when describing how the plan is to work. It's almost like myths that are intended to describe agricultural processes, or the weather associated with when a certain constellation is in a specific part of the night sky.

The story was made up to record the plan the Sheikah had come up with to ensure future generations knew how to use them.

now without the story of the divine beasts' and gaurdians' intended purpose and the plan to seal the Calamity, you're left with "10,000 years ago the Sheikah built these machines to aid in the defeat of Ganon, but were forced to bury them when they sparked unrest due to uneasyness and distrust among the peoples of Hyrule."

With the addition of the Leviathan theory, we get "20,000 years ago, the leviathans sacrificed themselves to weaken the Calamity significantly, and 10,000 years ago the Sheikah built these machines to aid in the defeat of Ganon, but were forced to bury them when they sparked unrest due to uneasyness and distrust among the peoples of Hyrule."

Finally, with the assumption that linguistic or mythological drift, if not storytellers simply exaggerating the age, caused the much larger timescale, we have the Sheikah, following the defeat of the Calmity with the sacrifice of the Leviathans, realizing that the next time the Calamity arises will be dissasterous for Hyrule if they don't have something of equal power to the leviathans by then. They begin attempts to create this answer artificially and manage to create the divine beasts and gaurdians, as well as towers, shrines, the Sheikah Slate, and weaponry. All of this technology, however, is designed for war and appears unsettling and unnatural to most, and unrest begins to stur among the populace. The Sheikah are ordered to abandon their technology, burying it beneath the earth (something that they are specified to have done in the story and simply would not have been recorded in a myth normally) but creating a myth of a hero and the technology to ensure it is known how it is to be used when the need for it to be used arises.

But then how did Ganon know about the gaurdians to be able to control them? The Yiga snitched about the same time they defected.

[midzelink]

People of Shadow: Who Were the Twili’s Ancestors, Really?

The speculation surrounding the mysterious origins of the Twili in Twilight Princess is far from a new topic amongst fans of the series; I distinctly remember staying up late into the night scrounging around old forums in my early teens, ingesting thread after thread on the very subject, hoping against hope that someone smarter than me would at last have found the truth amidst the lies.  Those kinds of analyses, the pure intrigue that leads to hours of reflection and research, has long been one of the series’ drawing points for me; that no matter how cracked and inconsistent the story Nintendo has chosen to weave, fans of the series will again and again use everything at their disposal to fill in the cracks.    

If you’re reading this, it’s highly likely you’re familiar with the the two most common theories: that they were either Sheikah or Gerudo (though the evidence I’ve seen for the latter has always been shaky at best). When you get right down to it, it’s not as if who the Twili once were really matters - it’s certainly something Nintendo didn’t give more than a few seconds thought - but speculating is fun, and something on which I’ve spent much more time than I’d like to admit.  Though the reality, of course, could simply be that they were no one, just a hodgepodge group of dark magic users, never before seen, I always found myself asking: If they were anybody, who would they be?  Is there any in-game evidence to suggest as much?  I would argue that yes, there is - and though what I’ve written here is hardly groundbreaking, it is fairly comprehensive, and with any luck, I’ll be able to convince a few of you along the way.

With all that out of the way, I would at last like to state that, if anyone, I firmly believe the Twili’s ancestors were Sheikah, and I’ve done my best to compile my reasoning for this below.

The Banishment of the “Interlopers”

Before we get into specifics, I wanted to lay some groundwork establishing when, exactly, the Twili’s ancestors were banished by the Light Spirits at the behest of the gods, as the timeline of events will be important in a moment.  In Twilight Princess, we first hear about the dark interlopers and their quest for the Sacred Realm from Lanayru; there was an era of peace in Hyrule, but when word of the realm and the holy triangles within it spread, war broke out amidst the populace.  From within this greed-fueled chaos arose the interlopers, “wielding powerful sorcery” - and so great was their transgression against the goddesses that they ordered the Light Spirits to seal them away in shadow forever. (If the story of a war breaking out over the Sacred Realm sounds familiar, that’s because the Hyrulean Civil War, which ended shortly before the events of Ocarina of Time, shared the same conflict; it’s entirely possible that the two wars were one and same or overlapped in some fashion, but for this post specifically, that possibility isn’t entirely relevant.)

This era of strife is colloquially referred to as the Interloper War by many, and from Lanayru’s tale alone we can extrapolate that, at the very least, the banishment of the Twili happened before the events of Ocarina of Time; the struggle was fought over the Triforce, after all, which was claimed and broken apart in all three splits of the timeline following the events of that game.  It’s also important to note that Ganondorf was banished to the Twilight Realm shortly after the events of Ocarina of Time in the Child Timeline, and that this was long after the Twili’s ancestors had been banished there; so it can be said conclusively that the Interloper War could not have taken place between the events of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.

The Sheikah, Few and Far Between

It was important that we establish a rough estimate of when, exactly, the Twili’s ancestors were banished for one very crucial reason: to shed some light one who they likely weren’t, and who they could have been.  At some point before the events of Ocarina of Time, there was a mysterious group of dark magic wielders known only as “the interlopers” that, all at once, were banished to an alternative dimension - an act that, had there been any of their tribe left behind, likely would have put a serious strain on their numbers.  And within Ocarina of Time - a game that takes place after this banishment would have occurred - we learn of a tribe who suffered one such fate:

“They say that Princess Zelda's nanny is actually one of the Sheikah, who many thought had died out.”

As we all know, Impa is the only Sheikah present in Ocarina of Time - I would argue not quite the last, if Impaz in Twilight Princess is any indication - but regardless, they are so few and far between that the general populace had one point believed them to be extinct.  Things weren’t always this way; at the very least, we can extrapolate that there were a great many Sheikah around the time of time of Skyward Sword, and even within the context of Ocarina of Time, Kakariko Village was in relatively recent history a Sheikah village that was closed off to the common people.  What truly happened to the Sheikah that drove them to near extinction is anyone’s guess, but I would argue that it was likely a combination of two things: 

the Hyrulean Civil War, which lasted very, very long, had many casualties, and the Sheikah (being in service to the Hyrulean Royal Family) were likely at the forefront of this, and

on top of this, perhaps before or even coinciding with the Civil War, a not unsubstantial number of the Sheikah broke off from their tribe, betrayed the Royal Family, and tried to claim the Triforce and the Sacred Realm as their own.

Of course, this relies on the assumption that the Sheikah could ever, under any circumstances betray the Royal Family - betray Hylia, the goddess whose bloodline it is supposedly their sworn duty to serve.  And though I will not be touching on this quite yet, I did want to bring it to attention, as it is overall a crucial piece of the puzzle - but we have some more ground to cover first.

(As for what I meant in the beginning of this segment when I said who they likely weren’t, I was specifically referring to the Gerudo, a people who many others speculated could have been the the Twili’s ancestors.  While it’s true that the Gerudo people have mysteriously vanished by the era of Twilight Princess, they are very much present in Ocarina of Time - and we have established that the banishment of the Twili’s ancestors occurred before the events of that game.)

Beings of Shadow, Enter the Twilight Realm

When all is said and done, the coincidental timing of both the banishment of the interlopers and the dwindling numbers of the Sheikah isn’t quite groundbreaking evidence of anything; after all, it would not be completely out of the realm of possibility that the Hyrulean Civil War had been entirely at fault for their dwindling numbers.  However, given what we know about how twilight affects ordinary denizens of the world of light, I would argue that Sheikah may have been the only group of people capable of becoming the Twili, and it is for this reason that I feel assured in my conclusions:

“Twilight covered Hyrule like a shroud, and without light, the people became as spirits.  Within the twilight, they live on, unaware that they have passed into spirit forms...”

This twilight - the very glow that transforms the unawares citizens into spirits and Link into a beast - is the very same “light” that pervades the Twilight Realm, and it can only be assumed that any ordinary light dwellers banished there would also become as spirits. Yet in the case of the Twili’s ancestors, this emphatically was not the case; they were able to persist, evolving over time to become the Twili we know and love today. When Midna is explaining to Link the history of her people after the duo enter the Gerudo Desert, she says this:

“What do you think happened to the magic wielders who tried to rule the Sacred Realm? They were banished. They were chased across the sacred lands of Hyrule and driven into another realm by the goddesses... Its denizens became shadows that could not mingle with the light.”

And after Link retrieves the Master Sword, breaking the curse that Zant placed on him:

“This thing is the embodiment of the evil magic that Zant cast on you.  It's definitely different from our tribe's shadow magic...”

It’s clear that the Twili and their ancestors had and continue to have a very strong connection to shadow.  We know that anyone from the world of light who enters the twilight becomes as a spirit; not even wielders of the Triforce are exempt from its effects, though it does, admittedly, affect them in different ways.  (Zelda is the one clear exception to this, an anomaly which I go over in this post - a short and recommended read before continuing.)  Just as the Twili, a people of shadow, cannot mingle in the world of light, people of light cannot mingle in the world of shadow - but the Twili are hardly the only people in the series to have a strong connection to the shadows.

"Have you heard the legend of the ‘Shadow Folk’? They are the Sheikah...the shadows of the Hylians.”

The Sheikah, time and time again, are referred to as people of shadow; Impa awakens as the Sage of Shadow, and the accursed Shadow Temple lies on the outskirts of her hometown of Kakariko.  We know that the twilight affects all whom it touches in the world of light - “light and shadow can’t mix, as we all know” - but what if the light dweller in question were a Sheikah?  How could a realm of shadows snuff out the light of one who is already a shadow?

I would like to posit, then, that even if the Twili’s ancestors had been a mixed bag of peoples and cultures drawn together by the lure of the Sacred Realm, only a people like the Sheikah - a tribe who had perfected mastery over shadow magic, so much so that they had become one with them - would have been able to persist in the anti-light of the Twilight Realm and, over centuries or perhaps millennia, evolve to become the Twili.  Anyone else would have simply become spirits upon entering the realm, doomed to spend the rest of their days neither alive nor dead.

Eyes of Red, Show Us the Truth

Now, there is one other crucial piece to this puzzle, and it revolves around one other trait that the Sheikah are known for: with the exception of Breath of the Wild (the disparity of which I have my own theories about, but I won’t get into that here), they all have red eyes.  This is something that’s never really commented on in any of the games, but it’s an important enough physiological trait that Sheik, who is merely Princess Zelda in disguise as a Sheikah, also bears the distinctive eye color.  Though it’s common knowledge that Midna’s eyes are also red (as are the rest of the Twili’s), this alone doesn’t speak much to a correlation between the two peoples; no, in order for this parallel to mean anything, we must first understand the significance of the Sheikah’s red eyes, and how exactly that ties back to the princess of twilight and the rest of her people.

First, let’s take a look at Ocarina of Time.  When Kakariko Village is attacked just before Link heads for the Shadow Temple, Sheik has this to say about Impa:

“The evil shadow spirit has been released! Impa, the leader of Kakariko Village, had sealed the evil shadow spirit in the bottom of the well... But the force of the evil spirit got so strong, the seal of the well broke, and it escaped into the world!! I believe Impa has gone to the Shadow Temple to seal it up again...”

Anyone who has played Ocarina of Time knows that the Shadow Temple is a dark and wicked place, teeming with the souls of the undead and illusions that, without the ability to see through, would completely inhibit any progress one would try to make.  As Link traverses the temple, he bears the Lens of Truth: a peculiar artifact (importantly, in the shape of a Sheikah Eye) that reveals the world as it truly is.  It is a one-of-a-kind item, and without it, no ordinary person would be able to make it through the Shadow Temple, much less fight the invisible monsters that lurk within - but Impa is no ordinary person.

The explanation is really quite simple: the Sheikah’s red eyes are not merely a distinguishing, but purely aesthetic characteristic (like the red hair of the Gerudo), but are indicative of the fact that they can see through even the strongest of illusions with the naked eye.  It’s the reason the Lens of Truth was crafted in their image; though one who wields the lens may not be a Sheikah, they, too, can view the world as one with this powerful artifact, seeing through artificial walls, finding invisible items...and even meeting the spirits of the departed.

Let’s go back to Midna; after you first meet her in the sewers of Hyrule Castle, slowly making your way to the rooftops and the imprisoned Zelda beyond, you encounter several spirits of Hyrulean soldiers along the way.  Midna taunts you, saying this:

“It looks like the spirits in here... They're all soldiers.  Where in the world could we be? Eee hee!”

As a beast, Link is now able to tap into his new “animal senses” to see that which would be invisible to his human eyes. Yet Midna is able to see the spirits as they are, naturally, without any aid whatsoever - almost as if she retained the truth-seeing eyes of her ancestors.

Before we move on, I did want to bring attention to one other thing the Twili and the Shiekah have in common - and though it’s not technically directly related to their shared ability to see the truth of the world around them, it is tangentially related in the sense that it involves illusions.  Early on in Twilight Princess, there is a scene where Midna seemingly transforms herself into Colin and subsequently Ilia, taunting Link about the capture of his friends.  It’s a somewhat strange occurrence that happens exactly once and is never brought up again, and it happens so early in the game that, for a very long time, I simply brushed it off and never gave it a second thought.

However, I think it’s pretty safe to say that what we’re seeing here is a demonstration of illusion magic - Midna is not literally shapeshifting into Link’s friends, as if she had this ability, she could simply return herself to her true form at any given moment.  This is significant because there is a fairly notable example of something identical to this in the very game I mentioned earlier in this segment; in Breath of the Wild, the Yiga Clan, a group of Sheikah who swore allegiance to Calamity Ganon, consistently over the course of the game demonstrate the ability to use illusion magic, posing as weary and lost travelers on the road, waiting to ambush Link and take him by surprise.  And though the Yiga may not technically be Sheikah anymore, they were at one time - and I find it exceptionally hard to believe that such a technique would be exclusive to the Yiga and the Yiga alone.

Echoes of the Past

I would, of course, be remiss to not touch on the various architectural and technological similarities between the two peoples.  On their own, they aren’t very substantial pieces of evidence - but if we have already accepted the fact that the Twili’s ancestors were, in fact, Sheikah (which, for the purposes of the rest of this essay, I will now do), then it is worth it at the very least to take a look, to paint a somewhat fuller picture of the story.

Take, for instance, the runes in the above photo, adorning the wall behind the throne in the Palace of Twilight.  Similar runes adorn the cloak that Midna wears while in her true form, and other miscellaneous places scattered throughout the palace.  It is not that much a stretch to say that the large emblem in the center is somewhat reminiscent of the iconic Sheikah Eye, though distorted and changed over time as it may have become.  An eye that is unmistakably Sheikah in inspiration even appears on the back of the Fused Shadow, and it is for this reason that I chose that image to head this essay to begin with.  But eyes aside, by far the most significant comparison once again returns us to Breath of the Wild, and the Sheikah as they were ten thousand years past.

The ancient-yet-highly-advanced Sheikah technology scattered across the once mighty kingdom of Hyrule in Breath of the Wild simply oozes Twili, from the harsh, blue aesthetic to the angular similarities between the script of the Sheikah and the runes of the Twili.  And while it is worth mentioning that this is decidedly technology, and not magic,  there is an argument that can be made in the world of fantasy over whether there is in fact a significant difference; looking at the image below of a room in the Palace of Twilight, floating platforms decorated in patterns resembling circuitry, it’s not hard imagine that this is nothing more than highly advanced tech, remnants of a history they left behind.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t especially matter whether either is a case of expressly magic or technology; all we can extrapolate from this information is that the Sheikah who had been banished to the Twilight Realm likely had some rudimentary knowledge of their tribe’s lost technology, had they been banished in an era when it already was lost - or, at the very least, had the same design sensibilities.  Whatever the case, it is worth is to try and acknowledge the potential connection, as there is much that can be gleaned by examining the world around us and its history - even a fictional one - and to that end, I would now like to begin wrapping up this unnecessarily long piece of persuasion by doing just that.

Those Who Do Not Learn From History...

...are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes.  Taking everything I’ve written here into consideration, it’s not hard to construe a conceivable timeline of events that could have led to the birth of the Twili, and the eventual invasion of the world of light headed by Zant.  Long ago, in an age ravaged by a war over a lust for the Sacred Realm, a sector of Sheikah betrayed the Hyrulean Royal Family, split off from the main clan, and sought their own power - and if the story of a Sheikah betrayal sounds at all familiar, that’s because it emphatically is.

Breath of the Wild is an anomaly in many respects; it seems to defy all expectations of what we understand about the timeline, reviving a people (the Sheikah) who, for all intents and purposes, died out long ago - but it paints a very important picture of what the Shadow Folk had to endure serving underneath the Royal Family of Hyrule, a picture that elucidates precisely why such a betrayal would conceivably take place.  The story of the Yiga Clan is, ultimately, one rooted oppression - and though I could go into great detail about the nature of this oppression here, and quite frankly the justification for their cause, I’ve already done so in this post, which I would again encourage be read by anyone who cares about the subject.  Very basically, the Yiga were right - having been cast out and mistreated by the very family they served, they did the only thing they could, and turned against them.  Glimpses of this mistreatment are riddled in previous entries of the series, but no more jarringly than in Ocarina of Time’s Shadow Temple: a place that likely was once a sacred place to the Sheikah people, reduced to nothing more than a haunted torture chamber recounting Hyrule’s “bloody history of greed and hatred" under direct orders by the Royal Family.  In Twilight Princess, Zant specifically refers to Link as “one of the light dwellers who oppressed [their] people” while talking to Midna at Lanayru Spring - and though I would not go so far as to say that Zant was completely justified in his actions, perhaps he had a point.  Perhaps the story of the Twili’s ancestors isn’t one of a an evil, mindless group of powerful interlopers who sought power for power’s sake - but one of fierce retaliation.  One of a group of people who had soiled their hands with the blood of the Royal Family one final time and said enough.  I believe that the Twili’s ancestors were Sheikah, and I will continue to believe it until proven otherwise; for all the reasons listed above, and also because, frankly, if I were a Sheikah, I would betray the Royal Family, too.  It happened once - so it will happen again - and again, and again, until the cycle of violence and oppression is studied and learned from, and the truth comes out.

But then, so long as history is written by the winners, it will take more than the red eyes of a Sheikah to parse the truth from the lies.

[empress-violetlight]

Zelda Theory - The Cult of Hylia - A Way to Hide the Triforce?

I posted this theory a few years back on Zelda Universe , and it never really got discussed there, so I wanted to bring it up here:

In both Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild, there has been a significant shift in Hyrule's religion/mythology, a shift away from the trinity of Din, Farore and Nayru prominent since Ocarina of Time, and towards a singular figure -- Hylia -- with little known connection to the "old gods" as they are now often called, other than they apparently charged her with safeguarding the planet Hyrule is on, the lifeforms on it, and the Triforce, even if she, as an immortal, could not use it directly. Regardless of her exact origins or relation to the Three, Hylia is clearly subordinate to them. Hylia's prominence in SS was a little more understandable, considering that she may have directly interacted with the Skyloftians' relatively recent ancestors, and it was the first game in all the timelines.  Personlly, I believe that Hylia herself was a race-specific guardian deity for the Hylians, like how the Great Deku tree plays that role for the Kokiri/Koroks, or Jabu-Jabu for the Zora in OoT, but that’s another theory. Anyway, in BotW, however, which is confirmed to be at least 10 000 years after “the age of legends” (i.e. all the other games, despite the developers not quite grasping what it means to extend a medieval stasis for longer than the amount of time it took from the invention of agriculture to the modern age in our world, but I digress), even if its exact timeline placement is unknown (and will be argued about until Nintendo clears the whole mess up, if ever), Hylia is just as prominent as she was in Skyward Sword, while the Three have seemingly been forgotten to history. The goddesses are never directly mentioned by name, (only referenced through the names of regions and dragons), and the Triforce symbol itself only shows up in a few, select locations, such in front of Hyrule Castle where Link's Knighhood ceremony was held, and (very prominently), on the back of Zelda's hand when she finally accesses her sealing magic. My theory is this: the worship and prominence of Hylia was deliberately encouraged in the ages leading up to BotW, with the Three fading into the background, as a way to hide/protect the Triforce. Think about it. The Triforce has been a constant source of conflict either in the backstories of, or directly in many Zelda games, and not only in Hyrule's world. In A Link Between Worlds the fighting got so bad that the “mirror reality” of Lorule went to the extreme of destroying their Triforce, which resulted in the near-destruction of Lorule itself. So, destroying the Triforce is out, but as long as it is known about, and the mythology around it, it will constantly be sought after by those who crave its power. Hiding it physically in the Sacred Realm only works for so long, as OoT proved. So, what better way to hide it than to hide it culturally? Promote the worship of a new(ish) goddess, let the old ones fade into legend. Once Din, Farore and Nayru are forgotten, or considered little more than fairy tales, their relic would also be resigned in the minds of most as mere myth. No more Triforce (or at least, no more belief in the Triforce) equals no more wars over it. No more nutcases like Ganondorf seeking it. I can imagine the promotion of the cult of Hylia being a rather massive endeavor undertaken by both the Hylian royal family and the Sheikah (who, as worshipers of Hylia anyway, I doubt would have any problem with it). Hence why there are Hylia statues in every population center bigger than a stable (and even in one you literally build in game!), even among races who presumably would be neutral at best, hostile at worst about Hylia (i.e. the Gerudo). What do you think? Was Hylia actively promoted as an alternative to the Three, in order to hide the Triforce?

[botwstoriesandsuch]

The Champion’s Identities 10,000 years back

I was tagged in this post by @no-themes-just-memes for a theory about the original Divine Beast pilots 10,000 years back. This was too big for a reblog so here is this...

This tapestry, the one that was passed down to Impa, over what I can assume is a lot of generations, is pretty much our only information regarding the original Champions. It’s well guarded, behind Impa, which is near where their “treasured heirloom” was kept so it’s definitely a valuable heirloom.

[Full theory/analysis below the cut]

Now the fact that it’s in Impa’s possession and clearly in the Sheikah style is obvious to the fact that it was Sheikah-made, but just to reiterate that point, you can clearly see the Sheikah text, swirl designs, eye symbol, and obsession with constellations that other Sheikah stuff (like shrines) have. Impa’s version is much more weathered, which in comparison to the much brighter and refined picture I have at the top, obviously means that this piece of art is old. This was definitively made by the Sheikah and not something that was from the Hyrulean Family as other people may think

Why is this important? Well firstly, and a bit off topic, but I think this confirms that the sealing of Ganondorf in botw 2 was done by the Sheikah as the wall art in the trailer is of Sheikah style and not the Zonai (although that’s on the pretense that this art of ganondorf is related to his sealing, and not just art depicting the events of something else entirely, which could also be likely to be fair)

Anyhow, the fact that this was done by the Sheikah, means that we can definitively say that the art here is not only accurate, but we can understand that the artist had the basic knowledge on what the different races across Hyrule were when making this. Basically, I’m saying that this isn’t a case of “Oh this was a legend passed down through time and this art was made by someone 100 years ago so the description of the Champions is not accurate.” No. This was by the ancient Sheikah, who had first hand, or at least very close hand, knowledge on the events and more specifically what the Champions looked like. 

[And I can further prove this because the tapestry in the trailer is obviously woven, and not inked into, unlike the other more “modern” art across Hyrule that you see in the game. It’s on an almost papyrus like “paper” and not the more modern book binding paper that is present across Hyrule, the only exception being the Rito, but again, this is definitely Sheikah design]

If we understand that the depictions of the Champions are accurate, and not the result of misinterpretation through myths passed down to later artist, we can actually use the art of the Champions as fact to identify them. 

I’ll start off with this, none of the Champions were Rito, Goron, Hylian, or Sheikah.

Rito and Goron are easy to disprove, the shape of the Champions are vastly different from the larger, circular Gorons, and there are no wings, beaks, or talons present on any of them, so Rito is a no.

You could argue that Medoh’s pilot has a beak, but 1) There’s still no wings or talons, tail, or even feathers. 2) It’s more likely a helmet, such as the Divine Beast Vah Medoh Helm which is canonically worn by the pilot/controller of a Divine Beast. We will come back to that point.

None of the pilots are Hylians or Sheikah, because the tapestry includes depictions of those very races in the same piece. The Hylians are depicted very human like, and the Sheikah are all with their signature masks with their symbol on it. Both, vastly different than the styles of the pilots. 

(And also the Sheikah race devoted themselves to assisting the Hyrulean family with their technology and knowledge and not with direct combat making it unlikely they were pilots)

[btw there’s a theory that the corpse in botw 2 is actually the hero because they could both be Gerudo/ganondorf, cause the hero in this tapestry was Gerudo cause of the skin tone and hair or something... but I’m 99% sure that’s wrong because 1) the curse of demise wouldn’t allow Ganon to be the good guy and 2) the hero clearly has pointed ears, something not developed by the Gerudo (who had rounded ears) for many many many generations]

[Fun fact! This last image showing the ancient Sheikah being cast out displays them escaping to the Forgotten Temple (with the large goddess statue) and some of them also splitting off to become the Yiga Clan]

The only possible known races left are the Gerudo and Zora, but I’m very hesitant to even say that for a few reasons I’ll get into later.

The reason they’re not crossed off completely is because they have distinct arms and legs which Zora and Gerudo have, shocker I know. In addition, it could be argued that the red hair that some of the pilots have indicate their Gerudo race. Also, the pilot for Divine Beast Vah Ruta has a skirt/petitcoat like fins around their waist which could be argued to indicate a Zora. However, this obviously won’t explain the other pilots, but we’ll get to that soon.

[I’m not gonna re-screenshot the other pilot just scroll up and look at how their hair color is red ok]

Now, other than those obscure observations, this leaves me with my two theories. The simplest one, is that the pilots were actually Hylians, or Zora, or some other race, but they’re depictions here have them in armour, so it is impossible to tell. This lines up with the amibo descriptions of the Divine Beast Helms, which were worn by those who controlled the beasts, giving reason to the pilot’s unusual head shape. Not far-fetched to assume that they’re might have been a fully fledged Sheikah pilot armour made at some point. 

[could be argued that the this helm explains the “tusk” or “trunk” like blue shape on the Ruta pilot’s face]

In addition, notice how the pilots are all wearing the same colors as their Divine Beasts. The Ruta pilot with the same shade of blue, the Rudania with the orange, Medoh with the green, and the Naboris pilot with the red (and yes its a different color than the Ruta one, I checked its a darker shade). This could explain away the coat-like shapes on the Ruta pilot, and and previously mentioned beak shape on the Medoh pilot. No race (other than the Zora, but again, they’re unlikely) have these colors naturally, so we can only assume it is armour that makes their weird body shapes.

[Again, I’m not gonna re-screenshot them just scroll up or take my word for it :p]

So theory one is just that, their races are ambiguous/unknown because of the ancient Sheikah armour they wore, perhaps to protect their identities? Or, perhaps because Nintendo was lazy and didn’t think it was that important, which is fair, it really doesn’t impact the story that much.

What it does impact is my ability to theorize and assign meaning to things that they didn’t intend to, in the hope that I’m might be right, which brings us to theory 2.

I say that the pilots are not Gorons, Rito, Hylians, Sheikah, Zora or Gerudo. Now you might be thinking “That’s literally every race in Hyrule how is that possible?” and to that I saw no, no it’s not.

If we skedaddle back to my brief mention of the Zonai in that one paragraph a good 5 minutes ago (for your average reading speed idk) we can remember the Zonai people, responsible for the ruins across the Faron, Thyplho, Upper Eldin, and all three of the mazes in the corners of Hyrule. Their culture and ruins are vastly different than the Sheikah and Hylian, but they’re assumed to have human-like characteristic given their relation to the barbarian armour set, as I assume that the tribe from the Faron region is at the very least connected with the Zonai

This armour, by the way, is only found when completing Sheikah shrines, meaning the Sheikah must have made contact with the Zonai at least 10,000 years ago. Much easier to be in touch with someone if they’re...I don’t know, recruiting their people to pilot a giant mech of yours, wouldn’t you say?

Secondly as to why I think the pilots are all Zonai, is this line from Impa

These pilots were from “across the land.” Of course, you might initially interpret that line to prove that the pilots must have been of different races and background (ergo, Theory 1) but then how could you explain the similarities all four of the pilots have to each other.

All the pilots have darker skin (something that might be common if your people originated from a lush jungle, such as the Faron?) they all have distinct arms and legs, they all have hair, and are all of similar proportion, which is different than that of the Sheikah and Hylian. 

I’m saying that all the pilots were off the same race, and what other race is present “across the land” other than Hylians? The Zonai, present in all four corners of Hyrule as proven by their ruins. 

The Champions of 10,000 years back were Zonai, wearing special Sheikah made armour and helms, and helped the Hylian princess and the hero defeat and seal Calamity Ganon. While the Sheikah were later pushed out, no such violence or discrimination was recorded against these Champions because they were not Sheikah. Their race and names faded with time because just like their Zonai people, they and their tribe disappeared mysteriously never to be seen again. This is why their identities and race were left unknown, because their people were not remembered.

But that’s just a theory...a GAME THEORY. Thanks for watc— uh reading? Thanks for reading :P 

[ladyjenise]

Legend of Zelda midnight thoughts post!

This is actually something I’ve been thinking about on and off for awhile, and I’m not sure I’ve discussef it:

Reading the Twilight Princess manga, and knowing its canon that the shade that teaches TP Link is actually OoT Link, it kinda amuses me that even though Ganondorf was threatening OoT Link and Zelda at the end of OoT, OoT Link managed to find a proxy to fight Ganondorf again through. I don’t think the various Links are related but more like reborn in different people, but not even quite that since of course OoT Link wasn’t reborn, he’s just become this undying shade. So its more like the idea of Link is reborn.

I do think its interesting that we see OoT Link go from this boy, suddenly to a man, then back again but still has all his memories, carries the secret of Ganondorf and stuff with him, continues to be a soldier/warrior, presumably lives to become an older man, dies, becomes some kind of Force ghost (its probably shouldnt be a surprise that Akira Himegawa worked on that official Luke Skywalker manga: Zelda has a lot of Star Wars influences), and then is helping the new Link defeat Ganondorf.

I like to contrast Link with Ganondorf and Zelda because the latter two I see as the origin of the Triforce snd subsequent battles over it. Of course, the three goddesses created the triforce, its just that Ganondorf/Demise and Hylia/Zelda fight over Hyrule/Triforce, inadvertently causing their own reincarnations.

I consider the origin of the goddess Hylia into Hyrule’s royal bloodline to be canon (Hylia mourns Link and his sacrifice and wishes to be reborn whenever he is, this sealing both their fates). I consider it canon bc it was included in Hyrule Historia. You must remember that Nintendo is really filled with nerds who live this stuff, and Akira Himegawa have worked with Nintendo for over 22 years now. I actually can’t think of any artist contractors who have worked with them longer. At this point, they’ve worked on Zelda for almost two thirds of the time the franchise has existed. I used to argue with people on this point, but let’s use the star wars rule: if it doesnt explicitly contradict the games, its canon.

Anyway, what I’m really trying to get at here is also how much we actually know about Ocarina Link compared to other Links. We may actually have a fuller idea of his life and afterlife than any of the others, which I think also speaks to the enduring popularity of that specific game, but everyone has their favourite games.

What I really liked about BoTW was that the game fleshed out Link and Zelda more. Why is Link so quiet? I enjoy the fan theories, especislly because i appreciate how people have been able to project themselves into Link, which was one of his original purpose. I also appreciate when he is coded in a way that gender is less hard coded. It’s helped that Miyamoto himself has sometimes spoken of Link being played live by a woman. But in BoTW, learning that Link speaks so little due to anxiety, it feels very familiar. It takes Link from mythic hero to very human. I also appreciated that it is one of the few games where Link and Zelda start off more or less as enemies. At least, Zelda is hostile to him, even more so than she wasas Tetra in Wind Waker, probably the only game before BoTW that saw Zelda as less a helper than something of an antagonist.

I hope Nintendo continues to explore these characters through different lenses and situations. There’s so much potential. Also: I miss Ganondorf.

[brownkamm]

The ‘Failed’ Sacrifice 

~ Ooooiii, hows it going fairies? I've been recently doing research & thought about BOTW 2 and the small cutscenes we get to see. And, of course, lots of theories have come out to figure out just WHAT exactly happened to Ganondorf & why he's dried out like a prune under Hyrule Castle 🏰 So join me in this semi-long theory of what I think happened to not only Ganondorf, but the Zonai Tribe as well... Also, your free to have your agreements & disagreements in the comments. Just...don't get harmful 😅 Alright, let's talk about the Zonai Tribe. Who were they and how did NEARLY their entire race mysteriously disappear? I say NEARLY because I believe their people still live, but I'll get to that a bit later. As we know, the Zonai were Ancient Warlike People during their time in Hyrule, though it seemed their people were pretty hidden from if not all, but most of those in Hyrule before Calamity Ganon struck. We also know that, thanks to the Barbarian Armor you can acquire in the game, that they were a strong Tribe and clearly from the 3 Labyrinths you can find in Gerudo Desert, Herbra Plains & behind Robbie's lab, they were clearly WAY more advanced than most Hylians, kinda like the Sheikah Clan, but... the real question is: if they were such a great and strong tribe...how did they go extinct (or to me, NEARLY extinct) ∆∇∆ - here's my main points I want to stick with: ONE: The Zonai & The Sheikah Clan had some kind of connection to one another. TWO: They "mysteriously" disappeared all at once because of a great sacrifice they made to keep Ganondorf locked away. THREE: The mysterious blue/green hand we see on Ganondorf heart before grabbing Link to help Zelda & him up was a way to stop Demise's cycle. Because...no reincarnation. No curse. FOUR: Someone, moreover the Sheikah, was close to the Royal Family who could have possibly tricked Ganondorf into going under the castle to "have the upper hand" on Hyrule. [C]∆∇∆ Okay, so let's start with the first. I believe the Zonai & The Sheikah Clan had some kind of connections with one another, though it seemed the tribe were seemingly standoffish to most of Hyrule. I say this because if you enter in any of labyrinths, what's the first thing you see? Specifically, in the air. [IMG=C8H] [CIU]Guardian Skywatchers. And I think we can all agree that sometimes these things can be annoying to shoot down, especially if you have terrible aim like me 🙂, but that's not the point. Now I know most may say: "Those could have been placed there AFTER The Zonai disappeared" And that could be true, which is why I'm not 100% sold on them working together, BUT, say for instance if that wasn't the case. Say if someone was so convincing to the tribe that they could help them achieve the one goal they had in mind: Stopping Ganondorf. Now, I say it may have been the Sheikah who leaned onto the Zonai because it was clear 100 years ago that Zelda's Triforce wasn't awaking & without a Royal Psychic ( which is usually ONE of the women in the Royal Family, possible Zelda's mother ) they were desperate for a way to get more time so Zelda could awaken her power since her mother couldn't teach her. Now, I say Zelda's mother could have been the one with the psychic ability because it's said that some females in the Hyrule Family have this magic stood upon them & pass down their knowledge of the next generation shows signs, meaning that not ALL princesses & queens of Hyrule have this ability. As we know, Zelda's mother died when she was only 6 from a mysterious illness & she didn't have a chance to learn her teachings. Some even theorize that she was poisoned by someone close to the Royal Family who could have been a Yiga Spy, but I don't know. It's not impossible considering the time era Legend of Zelda takes place in for if you were someone with such HIGH standard, you would have a lot of enemies & needed to watch who you kept close to you... Now without Zelda's mother's ability, the Sheikah were at a standstill. Their Clan was already split into two: The Sheikah and The Yiga Clan from their technology being thrown away because the Royal Family feared of them overthrowing them, so without their greatest inventions of this time era, they needed something that could assist Zelda while she searched for that THING to help unlock her power...which leads me to the Zonai. It's clear the Zonai were around before and during The Great Calamity, but not after..or so it's said. I believe that the Sheikah, without telling the King Rhoam or Zelda of their plan, went to the Ancient Tribe and realized they had the same idea of getting rid of Ganondorf once and for all to stop the endless cycle of this curse. Now, I can't fully say WHAT the labyrinths were for. Maybe a test for Link, but they feared others would go near it and enter themselves? (Which I think might have been possible because if you interact with anyone who notices the Sheikah Slate on Link's hip after awaking, they always say something along the lines of "That's A Sheikah Slate" And never really "THE Sheikah Slate". If there was only ONE in existence, wouldn't they say THE instead of A? Idk) Maybe they just wanted to keep outsiders out & insured that with a long & complicated maze? Or maybe they were doing their Ancient Art Magic in each area to see if it were a good place to hold the King of The Desert? ( and yes, I know, from one of Link's memories that Zelda tried to enter, but didn't have access. Could it possible that the shrines were only made for Link? Or maybe that particular Sheikah Slate is like the Master Sword and only responds to him because it only has one task: assisting the hero.) Regardless of what the labyrinths were for, it's clear that the Sheikah have left their mark on these ancient artifacts and knew of more knowledge on this tribe than anyone else.Now remember, the Zonai worshiped the Water Dragon, AKA Farosh 🐉 so they were clearly those who trusted somewhat in The Golden Goddesses...maybe. ∆∇∆ Now onto my second point. They mysteriously disappeared without a trace, which is strange considering they were clearly in a LOT of areas of Hyrule. From the sandy beaches in Lurelin to the hot desert all the way to the colder regions of the Hebra..it was clear their tribe might have been bigger than most expected....either that or they were just really sneaky. I like to say that their "mysterious death" was really a noble sacrifice. Remember that if this is true, it isn't the first time someone else, other than Zelda and Link, stepped in and tried to stop the Demon King. In Twilight Princess, the ones know as the Six Sages also took matters into their own hands & attempted to stop Ganondorf by stabbing him in the chest with The Sword of The Six Sages... But they failed miserably, even thinking that the gods were playing a cruel joke when seeing Ganondorf had The Triforce of Power on his left hand, leading to the king breaking free & killing one of the six Sages before they used The Mirror of Twilight to send him away and think of their actions. Which...if were being honest...the goddesses have some things messed up about them, but that's a different rant for another time. Now I say they had a noble sacrifice because one of things we see in the short cutscene of BOTW 2 is the famous Lumious Stone that can found just about everywhere in Hyrule, but specifically underground there's A LOT OF IT. And if we read the description of the material, it's clear that some of Hyrule like to theorize it glows so bright because their are souls trapped inside. Now, clearly, there's a LOT of lumious stone in this one area, and if my theory is right tat the Zonai were one of the people who used their ancient magic to try and seal away Ganondorf, I feel it would have taken A GREAT AMOUNT of magic to do so considering we know how strong not only Ganondorf is, but the Triforce of Power. Hell..it stopped him from dying by a goddess forged weapon! YOU TELLIN ME THAT AINT STRONG!? I believe that possible not only the Zonai, but some of the Sheikah Clan, died doing a noble cause of holding Ganondorf back, or at least his body, to keep him from a new reincarnation. Alright...I know this is a lot. Take a breather. Get some snacks and a drink because here's POINT 3: This caught everyone's attention. The Hand. Off the back, we can tell this clearly Ganondorf's newly found prison & a terrible and dark one at that. I mean, cmon, I personally wouldn't want to be mummified and have my heart grabbed at by a hand, but that's just me Now from this hand we can tell it's the same color as the ones that reside around Lumious Stone, The Fallen Champions, & The Monks when taking their Spirit Orbs to give to the Hylia Statues when exchanging it during prayer...kinda like Link is the key to setting their soul free for doing their deed for Hylia. I believe a lot of spirits were brought together in sealing away Ganondorf....a lot of ANGRY spirits, but as we see in BOTW 2 cutscenes that it's clear the hand not only moved itself (or the spirits moved themselves) to help Link and Zelda when they almost fell to their doom. And, even though this is a different game, I make the comparison of a lot of souls in ONE BODY to Noob Cybot from Mortal Kombat. Even though he appears as one person, there are lot of souls stood inside of him and one of his quotes are "We are many. You are one". The power of the hand, now given to Link, could be the spirits last attempt at helping Link and Zelda seal away Ganondorf considering it seems The Master Sword isn't as strong as it use to be ten to thousands of years ago. But in doing so, they released the seal that held Ganondorf captive for those past 100-10,000 years. I'm sure the only freedom Ganondorf had was The Malice that leaves his body (which is just a mixture of rage and hate..and honestly I'd be mad too if my only escape was a spirit form of myself) and his mind, if it wasn't already gone by then. Because of the seal now being broken, our beautiful demon king was up from his long nap 😅 I mean...cmon now...theorized to be bad or not, Ganondorf is FIIIIINNNNEEEE 😍 and I would give myself to him, but we're not here for my girly fantasies. And now was prepared to release havoc on Hyrule once more. Now, I say that this was a attempted by the Zonai and Sheikah to hold Ganondorf back because even though it's clear Ganondorf can still attack in spirit forms and smaller, puppet forms, as we see with the BLIGHTS, Ganondorf can't reincarnate if the DOESN'T HAVE A BODY FOR IT. Clearly when Ganondorf dies in his physical, Gerudo form, it takes Eons later for him to reform and be born into the world again, but...his body was still under Hyrule....and it could be possible, just like the Monks, that he was still alive, but had no ability to move, leading him to release so much hate in the world that it created Blights and Calamity Ganon, along with Dark Beast Ganon And now with that seal gone and nothing holding him back, the Demon King was Awaken once more, but...my final question is...how did he get down there in the first place? ∆∇∆ I'll try making this last part short considering this was longer than I expected. Also, no more pictures passed this point. I've already reached the MAX if you couldn't tell 😅 Now this is my own thought. I believe someone in the Sheikah Clan who served the Royal Family set Ganondorf up. I say this because I can't think of any other reason why Ganondorf would be hiding below the castle and not strike. There's also my thought that Ganondorf was either led there or possible kidnapped and brought to the sacrificial grounds below Hyrule castle. And I know some might say: "Ganondorf...kidnapped? That's impossible" But we have no clue HOW STRONG the Zonai's magic really was. Even in Twilight Princess, those who wielded a very strong and ancient magic had power great enough to take over Hyrule for their terrible desires, leading them to living in the Twilight Realm, so it's not as if it's not possible that this power was equally as great, but used for a different cause. Whose to say the similar green color of the Twilight Magic isn't being used once again, but this time for good and not selfish greed for the power of the Triforce? I believe that if Ganondorf was led to this area, he was clearly betrayed. Now, in many incidents  in past time eras, Ganondorf has been betrayed by many and his power was turned against him, which I hate, but this isn't about my personal feelings on the king. I have TWO ideas of how it could have happened: Say if the "spy" for Ganondorf was actually working for the Royal Family and tricked him to believe that they were getting as much intel as possible to keep from him being killed by Zelda and Link. What if the spy had been discovered by a fellow Sheikah member and eliminated them to keep things as they should have been? What if they gained so much of Ganondorf trust to the point where he thought they were a ally that they gave him the idea of going under Hyrule Castle, hiding for a certain period of time and was ambushed by the power of the Zonai and The Sheikah Clan? The other idea is that someone was ONCE loyal to the Royal Family, but betrayed them and went to Ganondorf instead. I think this is possible because it's clear the Royal Family has dumped the Sheikah Clan many times and doesn't trust them fully (which is understandable in that day in age, but still) and a few banded together to betray the Royal Family. Telling Ganondorf of the technology they created and how they were planning on using it against him, leading to him creating the Blights and attacking all 4 divine beast and the champions, but they were figured out, forced to reveal where Ganondorf was hiding OR someone followed them and found out the truth and set them up under the castle, but maybe not all, and this birthed The Yiga Clan in secret. It could have been possible that Master Kohga could have been there as well, or heard information of it, considering the Sheikah can live up to 100 years plus as we see with Impa, Robbie and Purah, along with the monks, but idk if it was Master Kohga in particular considering how goofy he is, but some like to theorize that he's a descendent of Zant because he mentions something of his great great grandfather's magic that was once sealed away was taught to him. Not to mention, they have similar personalities and fighting styles. So it could be possible...that the power of the Twili tried so hard to get rid of ten to thousands of years ago...still lives on, but now, used for good instead of evil by the Zonai. I could go on and on about this, but I clearly need more information on the whole thing. That and this is getting way too long. These are just my theories of what may be in the story line of BOTW 2. I hope you fairies liked this one 🧚‍♀️ PS: if you didn't notice, the same symbol that's on the walls in the cutscene of the SWIRL that can found on other works of the Zonai are the SAME as the symbol of Lurelin. This is what I meant when I said that it's possible that their people are still alive, but either the people of Lurelin don't know of their history considering most of their tribe died or was lost OR they know, hold some power, but keep it secret from outsiders of the village and disguise themselves as "noble fishermen" . I also think it's strange that Lurelin wasn't effected by the Calamity considering it was BEHIND that great defense wall where Zelda awakens her power & Link nearly dies. I say it's strange because I feel like Lurelins people & the Zonai have a very strong connection, but that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY ‼️

[darlingseraa]

So there’s, like, this one thing I noticed in Breath of the Wild that doesn’t make sense to me

So y’all know how there are Goddess statues everywhere and how, when you go up to them and pray, there’s this “voice” that tells you she can “grant the power you seek”. To my knowledge, it’s implied this is the voice of the goddess.

How the fuck can Hylia be granting you Hearts and Stamina if she is reincarnated as Zelda with every new generation of heroes in Hyrule??

I mean, we all know that story from Skyward Sword. That Zelda is the goddess incarnate, and that the reason she sealed herself away for a thousand years was so she could keep the seal her former self put upon Demise active until her power was exhausted and Link was able to defeat him in that era.

Assuming that Breath of the Wild is part of the Child Era branch of the timeline, I estimate that there’s at least somewhere between 20 000 and 50 000 years seperating the events of Skyward Sword from those of Breath of the Wild. Maybe sprinkle in a few thousand years for the Hylians to develop the Guardians and Divine Beasts and voilà.

SO.

Assuming those 20 000 to 50 000 years between the two eras are a relatively correct estimate of the time that passed between them. Does that mean that the goddess Hylia suddenly awoke at some point and found a way to regain her immortality, making Zelda from Breath of the Wild a completely new and different character than the other princesses of the franchise? Was Hylia replaced with a new -and, fortunately for Hyrule- benevolent entity that they believed (and still believe) is Hylia, while she remains tangled in the cycle of endless incarnations, just as Link and Ganondorf are?

I’ll tell you what. I personally believe that the first option, the one where Hylia returned to her divinity and gave place to a new Zelda, is what happened. At least, in the Child Era’s timeline.

My theory is that at a point in time between the events of the previous game in this part of the timeline (which I believe is Four Swords Adventures) and Breath of the Wild, the goddess awoke from her slumber, during the phase of the incarnation cycle where her spirit should be dormant. She awoke and found a way to break it, no longer wishing to be human and prefering to return to the divine duties she had once been tasked with, leaving in her place a young soul much too inexperienced with the task that would eventually become hers; a new soul that she chose herself -for her similar qualities and personality traits- to replace her. This would mean that the Zelda we see in Breath of the Wild is a completely new soul, making her and the goddess Hylia two seperate people.

There are two reasons why I think this is what happened :

The goddess freaking SPEAKS TO YOU through the Goddess Statues scattered a cross Hyrule;

In most of the other games involved in the Child Era’s timeline where Zelda is present (excluding the other games in their seperate branchings), she possesses a personality so different than the one she was given here.

Go see Zelda from Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword (they will be my three references as I have never played the other games in this timeline). All three share similar personality traits in their confidence, wisdom, and faith in the hero of their respective era, among others. They are also very rapidly shown to be in tune with their divine nature, each one of them being able to wield their powers with ease.

On the other hand, Zelda from Breath of the Wild is quite their opposite. She is much more scholarly and confident concerning things she has researched and knows to be true; yet she is very hesitant towards anything regarding divine powers/purpose and things of the like -as if she had never seen or experienced things like that before. Obviously she shares some traits with her previous incarnations, be it her kindness or her wisdom and intelligence, but she lacks the three things that would have made her a TRUE princess Zelda. Confidence, magic and faith in Link. As Hylia had been through this many times before -although she may not have any memories from previous lives when she does return to Hyrule in human form-, she has retained those three qualities. I like to believe that they became some kind of second nature to her. She instinctively knew that Ganon would come to destroy Hyrule with every new life they were given and that the Hero would save them. So despite having no memory of her previous lives, she knew to trust in Link and how to use her powers.

The Zelda from Breath of the Wild was not like this. She was hesitant to place her trust in Link, looked upon him with jealousy and some hate in her eyes at times, since she had seen his success in wielding the Master Sword as a sign she had failed for not unlocking her own powers. She had difficulty wielding said powers, and her hesitance to trust in Link only melted away once she sent him to the Shrine of Resurrection and went to face Ganon alone.

All the things this specific Zelda is and does in her game are the complete opposite of those a “true” princess Zelda (meaning one who would have actually been the goddess incarnate as a mortal hylian) would be and do. And it leads me to believe that in the end, this “new Zelda” is in fact a truly new character, different than all of her previous incarnations.

TL:DR > I have a theory that Zelda from Breath of the Wild is not the same Princess Zelda who gets reincarnated alongside Link and Ganon with every new game. She’s a different Zelda, and her previous soul -which was the goddess Hylia- returned to being a goddess after breaking the reincarnation cycle and deciding to return to immortality, leaving a new, younger and inexperienced soul she chose herself in her place.

---- Also interesting thing, when Zelda finally unlocks her power and protects Link from the Guardians in the memory titled “Zelda’s Awakening” (that is linked here), when she hears the Master Sword speak to her, the sound the sword makes is actually the same sound that was used in Skyward Sword to indicate that Fi had something to tell Link (sound clips linked here).

[paragon-yoshi]

SSBU-Rant: Kirby as the only survivor of “World of Light“

WARNING: This post has spoilers for "Avengers: Infinity War", "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" and "Final Fantasy 6"! Kirby being the only survivor and thus the only starting character in the "World of Light" campaign of "Super Smash Bros Ultimate", reeked of favouritism to me before, just like it was blatant in the "Subspace Emmisary" campaign of Super Smash Bros Brawl. But after thinking about it a little further and taking in some of the counterpoints, I made my peace with it. While I still think "favouritism" played some part in it, I was made aware of another factor on why Kirby is the perfect starting character. It's because he is the easiest character to play and get into for beginners. Which actually makes perfect sense, from a game design perspective. And if that is the primary reason, as to why he was made the only survivor and starting character, I'm completely okay with it. By now, I approach "World of Light" with the same mindest as I approach "Avengers: Infinity War" and its upcoming sequel: The characters that died will obviously come back to life and they will get a second chance to shine. So Kirby surviving doesn't bother me in the slightest anymore. But what I do take umbrage with, are the crazy and stupid things people spin from it. So let's go over some of these misconceptions... - "Kirby is the only character that could've survived." First off: Not really, there are a couple other characters, that could've easily survived this. (Example: Bayonetta) But even if that'd be the case, let's not forget one vital thing: The story was written to serve the gameplay, not the other way around! Think about it... Assuming what I've said above is true, Kirby was chosen to be the starting character, because he is the easiest character to get into. Meaning beginners will have a much easier time starting with him, rather than characters like Snake or Bayonetta. And so, combined with the concept of Spirits and exploring their origin story, the scenario had to be written in a way that only Kirby would survive. If they wanted to, the writers could've easily come up with a different scenario, where other characters could've survived. Like Mario, Snake or Bayonetta. Or maybe all of them or none of them. However, other characters may not have been as ideal a starting character as Kirby. And so, they went with a story, where Kirby would be the only one to survive the world's end, so that players would start with the easiest character to learn and unlock the rest as they go. And that's why Kirby is the only one that survived. Not because he is was the only one that could or because he's the strongest of them all... But because he was chosen to, for a specific reason. Speaking of "Being the strongest" - "Kirby is the most powerful of them all. So of course he would survive." Sorry, but that notion would completely defeat the purpose of a crossover. A professional crossover brings together characters from a multitude of franchises on an equal playing field. Meaning it's designed so that all characters are treated equally and so that no character is significantly stronger than all the others, as to not give any featured franchise an unfair advantage. Whether or not Smash Bros qualifies as that, is up to debate. But still, if Kirby was indeed made the only survivor for that reason, then there'd be no point to have all these other characters, from a narrative standpoint. All characters other than Kirby would be completely meaningless, robbing them of everything that makes them special in their own franchise. And you might as well cut them all out and make this a Kirby game instead. And while characters may be stronger or weaker in their own way, that doesn't make them any less potent. For example: I have seen people claiming Kirby is the strongest, cause he can split stars in half and such. And it might be a visually impressive feat. However... "More destructive =/= More powerful" There have been many instances already, where comparatively normal people overcame a villain with godly powers. A focused and non-destructive power, can overpower a destructive and massive one. I have two examples: 1. Link beating Ganondorf in "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" While nearly everything Ganondorf did happened Off-Screen and was told to you by NPCs after the fact, canonically Ganondorf still managed to do some awesome things. Like lifting a massive boulder with magic, infesting a deity's insides, single-handedly taking down a king and his soldiers, destroying an entire kingdom, creating a copy of himself, summoning demons and resurrecting a freaking dragon... Yup, sounds like a very fearsome foe with massive powers. Link's own powers and that of the weapons he wielded, didn't even come close to Ganondorf's in scale ...and yet in the end, Link overpowered him. That's because the weapons he wielded were only focused on destroying evil. They didn't have the massive AoE that Ganondorf's powers had and they didn't need to. All they needed was an accurate, focused blow with either an arrow or a sword, nothing more than that. 2. The main cast beating Kefka in "Final Fantasy 6" This feat is even more amazing. Since the characters didn't have any sort of special, evil-sealing weapons or managed to weaken the Big Bad beforehand. They all faced the Final Boss with godly powers, with their own power alone and with the villain being at full power. The ironic thing is, they actually had a strategy to weaken him, by destroying the three god-statues that gave him that power... But after they successfully destroyed them all, it did nothing. Kefka completely absorbed their powers, so destroying the three gods was for naught and Kefka couldn't be weakened. And yet despite having the powers of a god, having brought an entire world to ruin and having the power to end it at any time, Kefka was destroyed by the cast, whose powers didn't come close to the scale of Kefka's destructive force. So those are two major examples, where smaller and more focused powers proved to be stronger than massive and destructive powers. While Kirby's powers are capable of more destruction than some of the other characters, it doesn't necessarily make him stronger than everybody else. Plus, different universes go by different rules. So destroying a star might be much easier in Kirby's universe, than anywhere else. - "Kirby beats Gods and Deities all the time. So of course, he is stronger." Kirby isn't the only one, who has slain gods before. And even then, the meaning of "God" is completely different from one universe to the next. There are universes where "God" is above everything else and their will is absolute at all times. They are the very world and can't be overpowered by anyone. Then we have universes like "Final Fantasy" or "Xenoblade Chronicles", where a God is a very powerful deity, capable of creating life and entire worlds and display high amounts of power. And yet they can be overpowered. And then there are universes, where "God" doesn't mean jack, like in "Dragonball". Earth's God, Master Kaio, Kaioshin... All of these are gods and yet in terms of power, they're completely helpless against most of the main cast and of course, the villains. Let that sink in... - "Kirby is the only one that survived and that makes him stronger than everybody else." No, it doesn't. I just means be managed to escape, while everybody else didn't. That's like saying Bruce Banner (not the Hulk) is stronger than Dr. Strange, because he survived and Strange didn't, in Infinity War. So yeah, no... - "Kirby is the only one who doesn't need to be rescued. So he's stronger." Falling victim to an unfortunate fate and needing rescue, doesn't make any character weaker. - Mario was rescued in Super Princess Peach. - Solid Snake was rescued twice in Metal Gear Solid - Cloud Strife was protected and rescued once in Final Fantasy 7. - Terra Branford was rescued multiple times throughout Final Fantasy 6 - Shulk was rescued multiple times in Xenoblade Chronicles Just some examples of Main Characters needing rescue. And yet that didn't make them any weaker or less potent. So yeah, as far as Smash Bros is concerned, I don't think any character is stronger than the other. They all of their own strengths and weaknesses and they all can win against each other, if they play their cards right. And I mean this from a narrative standpoint, not from a gameplay-balance standpoint! But yeah, that's all I have to say. Sorry for wasting your time with this rant, but I needed to get this off my chest. Have a nice day! ;)

[yay855]

Legend of Zelda Lore Tips

So I’ve seen a lot of people confused about how the Legend of Zelda series works in terms of lore. So I’m here to set you straight! You can find the whole thing under the cut.

1: Reincarnation

Despite what most people think, reincarnation only happens once in the Zelda series, during Four Swords Adventure, where Ganondorf is reincarnated as... himself, basically. Thanks to Skyward Sword, we now know:

* Link does not reincarnate, ever. He bears the Spirit of the Hero, some esoteric trait that is passed on from hero to hero, which may just be the approval of Hylia herself. This sometimes carries through his bloodline, but not always. Furthermore, the Spirit of the Hero can be both destroyed, and remade, as seen in The Wind Waker, where Link is not the chosen hero, but a normal child who made himself into the hero. That said, Links usually share some traits, such as having a love of food and sleep. But, as shown in Twilight Princess, they are all different people.

* Hylia does not reincarnate, ever. After the first Zelda died, Hylia returned to her status as a full goddess. Her descendants, the various Princess Zeldas throughout the series, don’t reincarnate either. Every Princess Zelda after the first one (who was the goddess hylia in a mortal body) is a demigod, a mortal descended from a god. Their power comes from this connection to Hylia. Furthermore, as evidenced in the first two Zelda games, it is tradition for the Hyrule Royal Family to name their firstborn daughter Zelda- the Zelda in The Adventure of Link is the aunt of the Zelda from the first game.

* Demise does not reincarnate either. His incarnations bear not his soul or spirit, but his hatred. His “incarnations” are essentially just people whose hearts were corrupted by hatred or evil.

* Ganondorf, as I stated earlier, only reincarnates once. Every other time, he is sealed away, typically returning after his power is regained.

2: The Curse

Despite what many believe, Demise did not lay down a curse after being defeated in Skyward Sword. Fi says as much, his power was gone. Rather, he laid down a prophecy, which he infused with what power he had left to influence, that his hatred would continue on in others, and they would continue to plague Hylia’s descendants and their champions for all eternity.

3: Ganondorf

Despite popular belief, Ganondorf is not Demise’s reincarnation. Neither was he unduly influenced by the prophecy/curse. Rather, Ganondorf was merely an exceptional man born into evil. He is the child of Twinrova, a fusion between two ancient and evil Gerudo witches, and as such, he inherited much of their power. And because they raised him, he became evil. His origin story is no more complex than that; he was simply a man born into power and evil, who happened to fulfill the conditions for the prophecy due to the hatred in his heart.

The only reason Ganondorf has lasted for so long is because he was the only villain to truly grasp even a fraction of the Triforce, which is itself creation given form. By taking the Triforce of Power for himself, his magic and strength were increased to ridiculous levels, causing him to be all but incapable of dying to anything but divine power.

He dies a total of three times across the series- once in A Link to the Past, once in the Oracle games, and once during Twilight Princess. In every other game in which he appears, Ganondorf is never killed, only sealed away.

However, it is clear that, by the time Breath of the Wild takes place, Ganondorf has become a force of nature, and lost what humanity he had left; he is a monster, a miasma of evil energy. This is likely due to him repeatedly dying, as seen in the Downfall Timeline- each time Ganon is resurrected, he loses a small piece of his mind, until he’s completely mindless in Link Between Worlds, used as a puppet by the real final boss to grant them extra power.

4: Timelines

The series is divided into four timelines: a unified timeline beginning with Skyward Sword and ending with Ocarina of Time, and then three new timelines spawned from OoT’s events: the downfall timeline, the child timeline, and the adult timeline. However, the timeline itself is largely just made up after the fact, and aside from a few games, most aren’t made with continuity in mind.

The Downfall Timeline is where Ganondorf defeats Link in their final battle, and a war is raged between the awakened sages and Ganondorf, ending with Ganon being sealed away in the Sacred Realm as a last resort. After spending an unknown amount of time in the sacred realm, Ganondorf’s power transforms it into the Dark Realm, a land of demons and monsters. In this timeline, Hyrule is in a constant state of decline due to Ganondorf’s influence, with monsters becoming more and more common even when Ganondorf isn’t around, to the point where it generally isn’t safe to venture outside by the time the original game comes along.

The Child Timeline is one where Ganondorf’s influence is never truly allowed to spread. However, this also causes Hyrule to slowly lose its magic, and to slowly grow more dependent on technology. By the time Twilight Princess comes along, magic is all but unheard of outside of divinity and the royal family; similarly, the Sheikah, ancient magical protectors of Hylia and her descendants, are all but gone, with only one Sheikah remaining, Impaz. However, it seems to make a small return once Four Swords Adventures comes along, as the four Links find various magical tools and items to help them on their journey. That said, it’s obvious that Four Swords Adventure was just tacked on to the Child Timeline because it didn’t fit anywhere else. Furthermore, Twilight Princess only happens because of how Link was sent into the past; by holding the Triforce of Courage in the future, Link accidentally created a time paradox, which caused himself, Zelda, and Ganondorf to each hold their triforce pieces in the new timeline despite not having split the triforce yet.

The Adult Timeline is a unique one. Hyrule is subjected to Ganon’s reign, but he is defeated by Link. Link is then sent back in time by Zelda, creating the Child Timeline, but the Adult Timeline still exists- and it is without a hero. Link is nowhere to be found, and the creation goddesses instead lead the peoples of Hyrule to the tops of mountains, before flooding it underneath a great sea. Ganondorf is sealed away underneath the ocean, inside the remnants of Hyrule, trapped in a bubble of time as the world moves on. However, Ganondorf’s power was not fully trapped, and he managed to escape after untold years to once more wreak havoc. After he is defeated in the Wind Waker, Link and Tetra move on to explore the world, eventually coming across a continent, which they rename New Hyrule. In this New Hyrule, magic and technology flourish in tandem, causing a technological boom; magical trains become the standard method of transportation, and the royal family itself sponsors it all. However, this land is home to an ancient evil which was sealed away long ago by the Lokomo tribe, a demon king named Malladus; the train tracks that New Hyrule relies on are actually chains which bind Malladus’s prison, which existed long before the people even arrived on that continent.

Finally, there’s Breath of the Wild, which has a unique problem of not really fitting into any of the timelines. It contains elements from every series, and was intentionally created separate from the rest of the series, likely in order to help further separate it from the rest of the series. Breath of the Wild contains many timeline-specific things, including:

* The Rito, which only existed in the Adult Timeline, and which were Zora transformed by the power of a minor god. Some argue that these Rito are not the same due to the difference in design, but the fact remains that they consider Medli to be one of their own, to the point of naming Vah Medoh after her- thus, these Rito must be descended from the Rito of Wind Waker.

* The Sea Zora, which only existed in the Child Timeline. They were transformed into the Rito in the Adult timeline, and were transformed into the monstrous River Zora in the Downfall Timeline. Some people defend them by saying that these Zora are relatively new to the region, but the fact remains that they consider Princess Ruto to be one of their own, to the point where Vah Ruta is named after her; thus, these Zora must be descended from the same Zora found in Ocarina of Time.

* Goponga Island, Kanalet Ridge, Mabe Village Ruins, Martha's Landing, Tal Tal Peak, Tabhal Woods, Ukuku Plains, and Koholit Rock, all of which areas named after places on Koholint Island, in Link’s Awakening, which itself took place on the Downfall Timeline. And Koholint Island is itself not a real place, but rather the dream of the Wind Fish, a place that is presumably never seen in any of the other timelines.

* Linebeck Island, named after a character in Phantom Hourglass, of the Adult Timeline.

* Lulu Lake, Mikau Lake, and Toto Lake, named after characters in Majora’s Mask, which takes place in the Child Timeline.

* Mount Daphnes, named after the King of Hyrule in The Wind Waker.

* Ralis Pond, named after the Zora Prince in Twilight Princess, in the Child Timeline.

* The Tunic of the Wild, which most resembles the clothing of the Downfall Timeline links.

* Vah Medoh, named after Medli (named Medori in the original Japanese), the Sage of Earth in The Wind Waker, found only in the Adult Timeline.

As such, it can be said that Breath of the Wild takes place in a New Unified Timeline, where elements from all timelines existed.