On the topic of How Do You Handle XYZ Comment, I've always wondered how you handle terrible responses on your toh takes. Like I know the toh fandom doesn't lack piss on the poor reading comprehension and they also really enjoy wildly out of touch takes, but I've never seen any comments on your princess luz stuff of that nature. I'm sure they must be there but maybe I'm too early? But anyway, how do you tend to deal with the "acktually shipping luz and Hunter is incest" and the "ur not a real lesbian because putting amity in a poly ship is lesbian erasure" and the "as a white person kinda sus you make the poc woman an empress" kind of responses? Ones that are technically not hate and maybe if you squint could be from people who aren't inherently trying to do bad but just lack the maturity needed to engage with the internet at large?
this ask made me giggle. honestly, i haven't received as much pushback as you might expect! way less pushback than i expected. in the princess AU, i've gotten a LOT more "this is actually too grotesque for me to stomach" comments than "this is problematic" comments, which is fine. horror-thriller isn't for everyone, those comments do not upset me.
i have had a Few run-ins with bad faith people, whom i mostly block. there's one prolific commenter in toh tumblr fandom who would repeatedly write angry essays on my humor meta posts -- essays that were all about how belos is too evil to be sympathetic and/or about how hunter is a soft gentle boy who shouldn't be jokingly referred to as evil. then they'd go "i can't help my active and conscious decision to type a bunch of rude fucking words and then my active and conscious decision to send those rude fucking words because i'm autistic :(((" around the fourth or fifth time this happened, i was fucking done with that nonsense and finally blocked them. shoulda done it after the first comment tbh!! no more autism exceptions.
as for the rest of it, my main management strategy is to simply.... preempt the bad faith comments?
i had a LOT more unpleasant and conflict-filled fandom experiences when i was in the raven cycle fandom. that was my first exposure to "you can't ship multi-gender polycules if anyone involved is gay" and "queerplatonic het relationships are just heteronormativity shipping that you're trying to get away with." having dealt with those takes before, i've found a few different ways to disarm bad faith readers before they get started.
first is to be super open and honest about my interests. i talk about what i find compelling in different relationships All The Damn Time. it's really hard for anyone to accuse me of only wanting hunter to fuck amity if they've seen, like.... anything i've said about hunter and amity.
same with hunter and luz. the only negative reactions i've really gotten to how they're written in the princess AU is like.... two people being squicked by camila thinking they're romantically involved. i REALLY expected more pushback on the touchyfeely bed sharing stuff, but from what i remember, there's never been Any....? not even from people who consider them siblings.
i expected a lot of pushback on how mean hunter and amity are to each other, since it's taken So much farther than the canon. but it turns out that there's a very large overlap between people who like dark horror AUs and people who like hunter and amity murdering each other. (in a fluffy fic i don't think this characterization would fly Nearly as easily.)
i find that being funny really disarms people, too. when you look at any of my toh meta posts that could be controversial, they're basically all funny. people are a lot more willing to listen to what you have to say if you make them laugh, and it's harder for them to get angry at you.
and then the last thing is that i think i'm in sort of a privileged position in toh fandom. i've written a lot of controversial subjects and relationships and characterizations.... but i've also written some WILDLY popular mainstream fic. and people who like the mainstream fic don't really want to beef with me about differing niche opinions, bc there's a level of respect there. which they might not have for a writer they don't like.
but anyway. when things Do happen, i almost always just block and move on. there are so many people here who get what i'm talking about that there's no need for me to try to convert people who don't, you know??
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Obligatory disclaimer: I am not that familiar with VtM 20th anniversary edition mechanics or the lore so like take some of this with a grain of salt (or several).
TDLR: Nara exploits Neil and his abilities by taking away his ability to consent by getting him high during their time in Baghdad.
There is the obvious moral quandary of “one guy getting high is worth saving the world,” which may be true. That is not what I am here to discuss. I am much more interested in looking at Neil and Nara’s dynamic during this time and what it says about them.
It is obvious that Neil cares for Nara; he loves her. It’s stated that he would trust her with his life, and he calls her beloved nearly every chance he gets. I do think Nara does care for Neil in some ways; I just don’t think her feelings outweigh his usefulness to her. She has many reasons to keep Neil close to her, and her care for him is just one.
Time is running out for Nara and the Assamites; the Herald is rising, and she knows this. She also knows Neil is capable of having visions. These two facts culminate in her using Neil to get what she wants regardless of his own thoughts or feelings. In addition, I would argue that Nara is familiar with Neil on kalif, that she would know how it affects and impairs him given their relationship and proximity to one another, particularly earlier in Neil’s life. I don’t think it’s a stretch to believe she would know any potential dependencies or addictions Neil would have to the substance.
I posit that kalif does not affect all Kindred the same, and that it has different potencies (smoking vs. ingesting kalif tainted blood) based on how Jubair and Neil both react to smoking in Neil’s solo episode. However, I do recognize that Neil has been on a steady diet of kalif (and who knows what else) for a few weeks at the time of his meeting with Jubair, and it is safe to assume he is not sober when he accepts the joint from Nara as he mentions having trouble focusing earlier in the episode.
Over the course of their conversation, we see Jubair take “a heavy hit” (PoN 1.5-Neil Foster 11:39) off of Neil’s joint, but he does not seem to have any immediate effects. He remains cognizant and able to carry on the conversation with Neil, and he is quick to respond to the attack. Whereas Neil is unable to follow the conversation and repeatedly looks to Nara for guidance since he is unable to make his own determination despite only having accepted the joint moments before Jubair is introduced.
I also posit that kalif has addictive qualities about it. Whether this is true or not, I honestly don’t know, but there is evidence in PoN indicative that it may be addictive. When Nara offers Neil the joint, the comment is made, “If she gives it to me, I take it. It’s hard to say no” (PoN 1.5-Neil Foster 8:10). Later on, in episode 25, the coterie is hit with a kalif bomb, and Neil is described as an addict (PoN s2ep25 16:15). Though, this could have been a way to explain Neil’s mechanical failure.
(As a note, I haven’t been able to find much online about kalif and whether or not it is addictive. The source I have read, provided by @peppedstep, compared it to weed and described it as a strong hallucinogen that is used for ritualistic magical purposes (Rites of Blood, pg,72).)
Whether or not kalif is addictive, Nara knowingly and willingly gave Neil a substance that impairs his cognitive function and lowers his defenses to serve her own ends, and did so to “a dangerous degree” (17:40). I would also argue she would be familiar with the impact kalif and the visions may have on his mental health (panic attacks, dissociation, anxiety, etc.), and she chooses to proceed with offering the drug to him anyway without heed for his wellbeing. In this situation, Neil is incapable of giving informed consent (regarding the conversation, regarding the additional kalif, regarding his next attempt at a vision on her behalf) because he is already dangerously high or because he is addicted, or, realistically, both.
Nara also preys on Neil’s people-pleasing tendencies and self-esteem issue, intentional or not, by commenting that his visions (and therefore, him) have not been as helpful or useful as she hoped spurring him to try for another vision and ingest more kalif. However, she is supposed to know Neil well, and that would include his inclination to people-please. He loves her deeply and wants to help her; he would not tell her no in this situation, and I believe she knows this.
I talked at length here about how I view Neil’s memory loss, which I won’t rehash, but it is worth noting much of his time with Nara during this stretch is quite hazy or he flat out doesn’t remember. The only other person who can vouch for most of this time is Nara, and she has more than enough reason to deceive, omit, or keep the truth from Neil. He has no way to tell if Nara is further exploiting or manipulating him beyond using him for his visions. If she is willing to take his ability to consent away in one circumstance, I would argue there is not much keeping her from taking it away in any other. It’s clear she does not take his needs or wellbeing into consideration with her choices.
This episode is the only interaction we see between Nara and Neil, excluding Neil’s visions. If these interactions are indicative of the baseline of their relationship, how much does she really care about Neil if she is willing to sacrifice his mental health, overall wellbeing, and ability to consent if she benefits from taking those things away? Is this same dynamic present in their intimacy? If Neil is constantly relying on her judgment because he is high and/or unable to remember, when does he have the opportunity to make his own decisions about what happens to him? What will happen when enabling his addiction is no longer beneficial for her?
In conclusion, I think Nara is using Neil for his abilities and is exploiting him by taking away his ability to consent to what is done to him. Given this is the only canon interaction we have between the two, I wonder about the dynamic in their relationship as a whole and if it is a healthy one for Neil. It also makes me wonder in what other ways she has exploited Neil since she seems to have little regard for his needs or wellbeing.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
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sharing my wangxian phlebotomist!wwx/blood donor!lwj au from twitter here (a summary here if you wanna see)
--
The hardest part of the adoption process was supposed to be endless paperwork and screenings and the anxiety of not being good enough to meet high standards of the court.
It wasn't supposed to be A-Yuan's first doctors appointment.
His pitiful screams fill the small doctor's office. He's clinging to Lan Wangji's shoulders like there a lifeline, hiding and all LWJ wants to do is bundle up his son and carry him back to safety.
But these are mandatory vaccines he needs in order to attend pre-k. So he cant.
Nurse: Shots are never fun at this age, huh He would beg to differ; they're never fun at any age But see lwj isnt afraid of the shots themselves. Hes terrified of the sight of blood. His BFF loves horror movies & he watches them with her bravely by staring at the corner of the tv
When lwj gets his blood drawn, he looks closes his eyes and imagines being in a cold pond somewhere. But he's never been afraid of just the shot before.
He's helpless in the face of his son's distress. The nurse sighs, saying theyll have to try again another day.
A-Yuan sniffles into his baba's shirt, exhausted from the crying fit. His eyes are still watery and he looks around the room with such fear in his eyes, before withdrawing back into the safety of his baba's chest.
Lan Wangji has no idea what to do, only cradles him closer
Thankfully, LWJ has someone who can help. His best friend, Jiang Yanli is a child therapist and has been helping him prepare his home for A-Yuan.
If anyone knows what to do, it's Yanli-jie
JYL: Zhanzhan, have you tried showing him its not scary?
LWJ has not, bc he's terrified
JYL is the only one allowed to call him Zhanzhan. In Uni she was the one who mentored him his first week of school. Someone slipped him alcohol and he got deliriously drunk.
Yanli-jie was the one who found him and took him home.
This is what they told the cohort but actually…
JYL: seeing his Baba get a shot and be okay might motivate him to be more brave
LWJ certainly doesn't feel brave. He's thinking of the blood flowing from his veins and then LEAVING them to go who knows where. It sounds barbaric
He has the distinct memory of learning what a period is in middle school and promptly passing out
He is not a fan of anything related to blood
But LWJ has learned that Yanli-jie knows what she's doing, so, despite the way he can swear he feels his blood pumping with fear, he agrees...but there's a problem.
LWJ: I am up to date on all my shots. How can I show him it is safe?
JYL: Hmm....I have an idea. My brother is a phlebotomist! He can help.
LWJ is confused. Last he heard, the younger Jiang is a prosecutor who makes a living viciously yelling in a courtroom.
JYL: Not him, Zhanzhan. My adoptive brother, A-Xian. I bet he would be happy to help you. He works at the blood bank at Yiling Clinic! The perfect exposure!
For who?, LWJ wonders. A blood bank sounds like a house of horrors to him. And a person who chooses to stick a needle in people and remove the very force that gives them life? He cannot imagine getting along with this person at all.
--
Yiling Clinic is a community clinic in a part of town Lan Wangji has never been to, especially since the Gusu Group has their own private hospital.
But this is where Yanli-jie's phlebotomist little brother works.
A-Yuan clings to the back of his legs as they approach the receptionist, a young man with amazing cat eye makeup named Mo Xuanyu
These two definitely do not fit the bill for their usual patients, with their designer clothing, so he asks with some skepticism: Um, can I help you?
LWJ has spent the last two hours siking himself up for the blood part, he isn't prepared at all for social interactions. He flounders like a fish.
LWJ: …I am…We are here for…
A shout comes from behind them: Ah! A-Yu, is that A-jie's friend? Zhanzhan?
LWJ flinches until he sees a man sprinting towards them. The 1st thing he notices is this man is wearing lilac scrubs with little white rabbits on them.
The 2nd thing he notices is this man has the most enchanting smile he's ever seen. Already, LWJ feels more relaxed.
The man winks at him: You like the scrubs? A-jie said A-Yuan liked bunnies, I figured this would help keep him calm.
LWJ does not blurt I like bunnies too. But only just.
Beside the man is a pediatric nurse named Wen Ning, no relation, who says he's here to help with A-Yuan
Yanli-jie's little brother, the phlebotomist, introduces himself: Ah! Sorry, Lan Zhan. Jiejie always calls you that so it just stuck. I'm Wei Wuxian. You can call me Wei Ying if you wanna make it even.
Strangely, LWJ feels no need to correct him: Lan Zhan is fine, Wei Ying.
WWX smiles so brightly, LWJ feels dizzy with it.
WWX: Now where's the little bunny himself?
A-Yuan has been clinging behind LWJ's pant leg, tilting around just enough to peek with one eye at this strange gege.
WWX: Maybe not a rabbit then, a radish who likes to hide away!
A-Yuan becomes offended: I don't like radishes!
WWX laughs: Me neither! But Qing-jie says they help us grow big and strong, so they can't be all that bad huh?
WWX is crouched in front of A-Yuan, draping both arms across his knees and resting his chin in one hand. He waits.
LWJ admires his patience. The longer WWX waits, crouched and rocking back and forth in front of A-Yuan, smile gently and welcoming, the more A-Yuan's natural curiosity gets the better of him.
Eventually, his son comes out from behind his leg to touch a black bunny on his sleeve
A-Yuan: I like this one. We only have a white bunny at home.
WWX: I like the black bunny too! What's your bunny's name?
A-Yuan: Banana, bc she tries to eat Baba's banana every morning, and you are what you eat.
He recites this with all the solemnity a 4 yo could possess
WWX's laughter echoes through the lobby: Well! You're very right, A-Yuan. Maybe you aren't a radish after all then. Tell me, what do little boys eat?
A-Yuan: I'm not little! I'm 4 and a half!
WWX: Right, right, I sincerely apologize for my mistake. What do big boys eat then?
A-Yuan purses his lips and taps his chin, pondering his question carefully: Hmm… jelly beans?
WWX looks like he wants to laugh more, but instead says: I see, I see. Thank you for your wisdom A-Yuan.
He looks up at LWJ, dark eyes dancing. LWJ's heart rabbits against his chest
WWX: If your baba is ready, we can head down to my cave if you'd like. I have a lot of cool machines I'd love to show you.
A-Yuan's eyes widen into saucers as he gasps: A cave? Wowww
They grin conspiratorially at each other, before turning bright eyes up at LWJ
LWJ feels warm and much more relaxed inside, so he nods: Mn. We may go.
A-Yuan cheers and holds WWX's hand as the head downstairs.
LWJ trails behind making small talk with WN, watching WWX and A-Yuan swing their hands and skip ahead, feeling something warm blossom in his chest.
The hallway to Wei Wuxian's lab isn't anything like Lan Wangji expects.
The rooms at Gusu are all perfectly pristine and sterile, painted white to promote serenity, rest, and healing.
For one thing, he'd raided a Halloween store at some point and hung up all sorts of decorations, mostly vampire themed. There's one that's says "I vant to suck your blood!" except suck is crossed out and replaced with "donate". Wwx and A-yuan giggle together at wwx's fake accent
It's definitely not up to Gusu General's strict standards. For one thing, there're beanbag chairs in the hall outside. Wwx says it's to feel more comfy while others wait, as he's the only phlebotomist on staff and it can take a while. A-Yuan personally tests each one.
His lab is…adequate if far too small. There's a desk that's overrun with stacks of papers and textbooks and a shelf that's filled with even more. The actual space where blood is drawn is, thankfully, sterile and clean. Though he's decorated with demons demanding blood for food
There's a temp controlled room where the blood is stored, with a red door and the words "Blood Pool" written in menacing barely legible font
Despite the…interesting decor, the room is homely and, surprisingly, welcoming. A-Yuan at least is having a very fun time getting a tour
Wwx patiently answers all of A-Yuan’s questions, even the endless why's, with utmost sincerity, even when his answers are purely nonsense.
Lwj can't stop the fond smile from lifting the corner of his lips. A-Yuan had never warmed up to a medical professional so fast.
He's pulled from his musings when A-Yuan grabs his sleeve: Baba! Blood-gege says this machine makes blood spin around!
Wwx burst out laughing: Blood-gege? I love it!
Lwj is enchanted, head repeating those last 3 words again and again as wwx fondly ruffles A-Yuan's fluffy hair
Wwx: alright, now that you're familiar with my beauty Chenqing (referring to his bloody spinny machine lwj does not want to think about), shall we get down to business?
He says this with his bright dark eyes glittering at LWJ. Right. The blood donating part.
Lwj gulps, nodding. A prisoner walking up to the gallows.
TBC
(If you're interested, I'm probably going to continue at least up to the end of the first part before i just make it into one long fic! You can follow it on my twitter!)
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@eddie-dearest I had to add your tags because that's exactly what I asked myself when I started thinking about the character. I didn't plan a backstory or characterisation, I started playing because the alternative history concept of the game seemed intriguing and I wanted to explore what it had to offer in terms of writing. I played a lot of storylines just to see how the plot would proceed and I was immediately hooked by the mystery (this was around 2013). Hiram's characterisation is mainly based on the choices I made in game, and he turned out to be quite a mess, but in a fun chaotic way.
The rest of the post is under the cut because it got a little long.
After some years I started thinking about what kind of character would have made those choices and I elaborated a first concept for an oc, but I never thought that much about it. Around 2017 I deleted my old mail, completely forgetting it was linked to my game account so I had to start everything again, which was kind of a relief given all the new game dynamics that were added to the early game, and this time I had the character ready. I got some of my friends into the game too and we made a group chat (The Paramount Polycule started as the chat name lol) and that was the starting point for headcanons and characterisation development.
I love history and the 19th century is particularly interesting to me in terms of societal changes, a hyphen between the ancient regime and the contemporary 20th century ideologies (with all the good and bad implications that this entails), and technological advances. The process of change and how people react and adapt to it is what really intrigues me, and it's what got me into the game in the first place, and what prompted the background for the character. Hiram is fascinated by change and he loves to keep up with the times, I don't think he ever felt left behind by history. If he feels there's something he can't understand he dives head first into it until he figures it out. He approaches challenges like puzzles or games and he's still capable of wonder, even after a good dose of corruption arc.
Speaking of corruption arcs, I'm a tragedy enjoyer, other than a chaotic shenanigans appreciator, and I like when the narrative borders on horror. Gothic fiction with its specific motifs is one of my favourite genres, and another reason I started playing the game. I especially appreciate the theme of a place being haunted by itself and its history and/or moving through history haunted by what it was/what it is/what it could be, so you can see why Fallen London is so compelling to me. I also like themes of faustian bargains and that's why my character is Like That.
In terms of general vibes and aesthetic I love late 19th and early 20th century fashion, and I wanted Hiram to have the look of some actor from the 20s/30s interpreting a late 19th century character as an excuse to mix up multiple decades of fashion. The devils are anachronistic and fashion in Fallen London is so interesting to speculate. Pre code Hollywood and and pre nazi european cinema have the perfect aesthetic for me, and I got particularly inspired by the drama of austrian operetta films, hence the Anton Walbrook and Ronal Colman faceclaims. On a more personal note, I just projected some gender as I always do when I design a character. I like earlier 19th century fashion too, and that's why I made him so dandyish.
To end the post, here's a non-comprehensive list of medias that inspired Hiram's vibes and aesthetic:
the general concept of penny dreadfuls
À Rebours by Joris-Karl Huysmans: not the protagonist, but the circling pointlessness of the plot, the aesthetic of the house, and the spiralling
whatever happens when you mix the late wave of english Romanticism with the Decadent movement
Doctor Faustus by Thomas Marlowe: that's like, thee bluebrint, and Hiram appreciates the irony
Tales from the Vienna Woods by Johann Strauss II
Delirium Waltz by Josef Strauss
Enemies to Lovers by Joshua Kyan Aalampour
Mr. Malum by The Dear Hunter: mandatory dramatic song, this is Hiram's playlist if anyone wants more music
Maskerade (1933): main faceclaim movie, the promo pics with Paula Wessely and Anton Walbrook dancing are inspo for the Quiet Deviless and Hiram (plot is extremely melodramatic if anyone is interested)
Gaslight (1940) and The Red Shoes (1948): Anton Walbrook goes insane with expressions
The Devil to Pay (1930): Ronald Colman is the other faceclaim actor, he has a funny dog in this movies, inspo for Sugarplum
The man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo (1935): just the general fancy vibes, a suitcase full of money, and the iconic moustache look
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