#this scene is not about him at all it's about alicent and her sacrifice

[bietrofastimoff23]

it was 2024, and tb keep talking as if it was aegon at the coronation who ran to alicent to hide behind her back, when in reality it was her choice to come forward, shield her son with her body and cling to his arm to make sure that he would stay behind.

[lemonhemlock]

the reason why i don't think blood & cheese works without maelor is because it undermines the gravity of helaena's choice

in the books, as we all know, she has to choose which son to sacrifice. blood & cheese are going to kill one either way, so, whatever happens, if you want to get cynical about it, aegon will still be left with a male heir of his body. no, the horribleness of the choice lies not really in dynastic matters, but in basic humanity: which of your children are you willing to condemn to death? and helaena truly does try to make the best out of a bad situation, she picks not because she loves jaehaerys more, but because maelor is so tiny that she hopes he won't understand what's going to happen to him.

and she absolutely has to choose, because b&c threaten to rape her daughter if she doesn't. it's psychological torture. b&c just want to fuck her up in the head as much as possible and helaena tries her goddamnest to minimize the harm done to her family. to further compound on the tragedy, b&c kill the opposite child, so now she has to live out the rest of her days knowing that the son left alive is the son SHE herself marked for the axe. which is what understandably drives her to lose her mind

now, in the show, the "problem" blood & cheese have doesn't exist at all: that they can't supposedly tell the twins apart. but (as awful as it sounds, since it involves sexual assault) they could very easily check which child has male genitalia and be done with it. it's a "problem" that takes literal seconds to solve. they don't need helaena at all! it becomes irrelevant which child she points towards - b&c can always just check! she can't save jaehaerys in this situation no matter what she does, because b&c were never interested in jaehaera in the first place. in the books, she has the ability to save one child and this exact horrible "agency" bestowed on her torments her for the rest of her days. in the show, even had she pointed towards jaehaera, it would have been a narrative plot hole for the writers to have killed her without checking

likewise, in the books, she begs them to kill her instead, but, in the show, she offers them a necklace? you can't deny that the dramatic stakes are lowered substantially by making that change. which one of these options would have been more filled with pathos? personally, it just feels like this was phia's moment to shine and, while she did a good job with what she had, every narrative choice was somehow made to subdue this horrible event and left her only crumbs to work with. cinematically-speaking, this scene (as it was executed) does not even come close to the iconic moments that cemented GoT into the collective consciousness, which is very strange, as the subject matter is anything but mediocre

and that's not even getting into the rest of the plot holes that others have already pointed out, like:

- why are there no guards at helaena's door or anywhere else for that matter? not just on that hallway, but on many other hallways, she has to run quite a lot to get to alicent's chambers

- why is her room unlocked at the very least

- why is ALICENT's room unlocked, for that matter? she is having secret guilty sex with criston and she forgets to lock her door in a castle full of spies? anyone could have walked in

- not even getting into this whole thing just being one huge misunderstanding + minimizing daemon's and mysaria's roles :))

- NOT EVEN mentioning removing the trauma of alicent witnessing all of this, gagged and bound on her own bed, not being able to help or intervene in any way

i can understand the likelihood of these elements happening sometimes (maybe someone does forget to lock their door from time to time, maybe a guard does shirk their duties from time to time), but you can't write all of them at once without it turning all looney tunes. if you introduce too many aspects that defy logic in your story, it ceases to be believable and just becomes bad writing

___________________________________________

also, "they killed <the boy>"? not "my son" or "jaehaerys"? it sounds so removed, don't you think? helaena out there on her mother's floor dropping exposition for the audience 🥲

[spacerockfloater]

Alicent and Criston have every right to be together.

I’ve read a lot of posts regarding their non-existent hypocrisy and I’d like to clear some things up.

First and foremost, stop using Alicent’s “Where is duty, where is sacrifice?” line against her or Nyra’s outrageous “Exhausting, wasn’t it?” speech because you think you’re eating when you’re, in fact, starving. Alicent has done her duty and sacrificed herself. It’s the only thing she’s been doing for the past 20 years. She gave the man she was forced to marry four children and she took care of him despite all the shit he put her through. She has lived all her life based on her principles and now her husband is gone. She mourned him, she buried him, it’s been more than 10 days since his death (confirmed that E1 S2 takes place 10 days after Lucerys’ death) and she is finally fucking free. She deserves a sliver of comfort. Alicent is the only one in this series that’s been faithful and dutiful to a T, yet look where that got her. If someone has the right to break the law a little bit, it’s definitely her.

That being said, I don’t know when it was decided that Alicent is a pious saint that can do no wrong, but I need to remind y’all that following a religion does not magically prevent you from sinning. Is she committing fornication? Obviously. However, you are all under this impression that this is hypocritical on her behalf because she berated Rhaenyra for it when they were younger, without considering that her anger was justified for a myriad of other reasons, such as (but not limited to): 1) the fact that Rhaenyra’s freedom to marry whomever she pleased was a privilege granted to her thanks to Alicent’s efforts, who supported her even if Rhaenyra hated her, yet her friend casually threw that away, 2) the fact that Rhaenyra lied to her by swearing on her morher’s grave and never even mentioned Criston, 3) the fact that Rhaenyra had the guts to call her “sister” while lying to her face, 4) the fact that her lies resulted in Otto getting fired since Rhaenyra misled Alicent so that she speaks to Viserys in favour of her friend and betraying her own father by siding against him (a decision she wouldn’t have made if she knew the truth), leaving her completely alone and friendless at court, even if he was right all along and finally 5) the fact that Rhaenyra is the most sought after bachelorette in the whole world and by having sex she undermines herself (Rhaenyra knows this well, hence why she denies these accusations) and literally endangers herself, because had she been married to any other man but Laenor and had this man found out his wife and future queen is not a virgin, imagine the fucking horrors she could have been subjected to. Like, I hate to break it to you, but a 40-year-old widow, who’s had four kids and has completed her duty to the point where she is actually no longer needed and could leave the palace to go live the rest of her life in peace somewhere else and no one would notice her absence (literally though, she has birthed heirs, her husband is dead, her son is a grown adult king, her job is done there), having sex, is not the same as an 18-year-old princess and future heir in her prime, whose purity is linked to her worth, getting caught drunk in a brothel, hooking up with her uncle and losing her virginity to her guard, all in one night. Viserys himself was outraged. There’s lows and then there’s lows, y’all.

By the way, the crazy assumptions that Alicent has been cheating on Viserys with Criston for a while now need to stop. When Olivia Cooke said that they had filmed a messy sex scene with Fabien Frankel in a recent interview, she never said this was for S1 of HOTD. I don’t know where y’all got that from, but even if it was true, that scene has been scrapped so it is not canon. And don’t make me laugh about Daeron, a dragon rider who canonically has Valyrian features, potentially having brown hair. You’re all so blinded by your hatred for Alicent that you want her to be a lying hypocrite in order to make yourselves feel better about Rhaenyra’s mishaps, that you don’t get that the whole point of her and Criston getting physical is that she is a tortured woman who is finally able to break free, not that she has been a hypocrite all along. You’re heavily misunderstanding her arc.

Finally, when it comes to my good man Criston, y’all have lost it completely. No, Alicent is not raping him, unless he tells her to stop and she closes the door behind her like Rhaenyra did that is. No, Criston did not lie about how important his honour is to him. There’s a whole article on how Clare Kilner, the director of E4 S1, decided that Cole removing his armour slowly was necessary because it symbolises his inner conflict and uncertainty over breaking his vow: should he soil his cloak for the sake of the woman he loves? And he does soil it, because he thinks she loves him back. But that honourable man dies the day Rhaenyra tells him that he’ll never be anything more than a side piece to her. This man stops giving a flying fuck about his honour, oath, position and life. He is trying to kill himself. And you know what stops him? Alicent. Alicent is the only thing between him and death, the only person to show him kindness and understanding, to pull him up from the lowest point in his life. I don’t think you heard Alicent in E7 S1: “No, you’re sworn to me!”. Y’all. His life is hers. He doesn’t care about Rhaenyra, his job, Viserys, anyone else at this point. Only Alicent exists in his mind, Fabien himself has said time and time again that his loyalty to her is unwavering. He only exists for Alicent’s sake. He’s who you wish Daemon was. Crying that “Criston is a bad knight and a liar because he broke his chastity oath yet again!” is so pointless because that knight has been dead since Rhaenyra’s marriage to Laenor. What does an oath mean when you find out the people you swore it to have betrayed you? Why should he keep his promise to the people who abused him?

[alicentsgf]

So interesting to me that so many people think the Dyana rape scene was about Aegon. Lmao no. Unfortunately it was very clearly about Alicent. It was all about the scene we get with Alicent and Dyana afterward. It wasn't foremost about making Aegon an explicitly horrible person. It wasn't about demonizing him. He was collateral.

They didn't map out the consequences well enough, but what they wanted was to showcase that Alicent was a victim of sexual assault. To show her empathising with Dyana, but unable to do anything to truly punish Aegon. They underestimated how much this would make the audience hate Aegon even though TGC tried to tell them. Again and again we've seen these writers sacrifice character arcs for character moments and I think thats what happened here. They sacrificed Aegon's characterisation for Alicents but in doing so they added nothing of worth to Alicents character either. No amount of scenes of alicent crying is going to confront the audience with her victimhood the way scenes showing how she truly was trapped in a corner by Viserys actions, Rhaenyras decisions, by the threat of Daemon, etc. Something the writers held back on because they didnt want to demonise Rhaenyra, which you cant do without essentially making Alicent look like a paranoid idiot that caused the war for no good reason to a general audience who isnt deeply familiar with this world. Which they're now regretting, because they clearly want people to understand and care about both Alicent and Rhaenyra, (even tho they keep telling people to pick a side in promotion 🙄) so they try to walk it back by adding yet more scenes of Alicent being depresso. Alicent being 'humbled'. "Shes good we promise! Just misled! Her tiny womens brain cld never concieve of politics she just wants to do lie in a field!" Like. Please someone put me down like a sick dog.

[kazz-brekker]

hotd episode thoughts

listen, as someone who enjoys some good dragon drama, i feel fantastically well catered-to by this episode

the confrontation between rhaenyra and addam was fun, i liked that it's apparently kind of inspired by western face-offs but with dragons instead of guns

that conversation between larys and ironrod while they were watching aemond sentence men to the watch definitely implied to me that, unlike with his brother, the council is so wary of/intimidated by aemond they don't even want to talk to him about possibly important war developments. which does not bode well for team green's stability in the future, tbh

jace stop being mean about mysaria that's your mom's girlfriend you're talking about :(

i did find the conversation between rhaenyra and jace really interesting, i hadn't considered that the sowing of the seeds plan might bring out so much of his insecurities about being a bastard. he and rhaenyra have probably the most functional parent-child relationship in the show, but they really DON'T talk about this aspect of his life at all, and it really shows

oscar tully unexpected mvp of the episode perhaps? holding his own against that whole council of river lords…calling daemon loathsome…making him execute willem blackwood to atone for spurring on those war crimes…king shit!

i enjoyed getting to see viserys again, i've really missed his actor this season and seeing daemon's reaction to his ruined face was quite interesting

daemon you are SO close to realizing that you don't actually want to be king and would make a terrible ruler, i'm rooting for you to figure this out by the season finale

the scene with aegon and larys talking was probably my favorite from last week so i really liked that we got a follow-up on it. very impressed that aegon is capable of walking even the tiniest amount after what he's been through

rhaena running off into the mountains…she's getting that dragon by hook or by crook

ulf trying to get out of claiming a dragon by claiming he had an injury made me laugh

i like that hugh and ulf have totally different reactions to being possible dragonseeds, one boasting and the other hiding it

alicent was serving real ophelia by john william waterhouse vibes this episode

loved that the dragonkeepers had a huge fight with rhaenyra over the sowing of the seeds, they're in the background of so many dragon scenes but we've never gotten much perspective on what they think of dragons or the targaryen right to claim them before

i do admit to saying "wow, those are some toasty boys" out loud when vermithor was torching those poor dragonseeds

love love LOVE that we got to see both vermithor and silverwing this episode, they look so cool and i love their distinct designs

i have been waiting ALL SEASON for the payoff of hugh and ulf claiming those dragons and it was such an exciting sequence, you could really feel the adrenaline and the danger the whole time

ryan condal on the inside the episodes comparing the death of the dragonseeds to ritual sacrifice was also super fun symbolism

another daeron mention, hi daeron and tessarion :)

also house beesbury making problems for the hightowers, love to see it

after aemond has spent so much time this season intimidating and terrifying other people it WAS super fun to see him do a hard swerve into fear when he saw how many dragonriders rhaenyra has now

that final shot of rhaenyra standing on the dragonmount with syrax, vermithor, and silverwing behind her DID get to, i must say. it's house of the dragon! and we have the dragons!!!

okay yeah i am super hyped for the finale and whatever it may bring, seems like it's gonna be epic. the triarchy! the dragons! the riverlands! helaena in the war effort, apparently?! what fun!

[greenqueenhightower]

I don't understand why people get upset with the Greens' and Alicent's willingness to believe that Viserys' deathbed prophecy truly was about Aegon? I think that the show explained very well why they needed to believe this. Aegon never had a single ounce of acknowledgment from his father growing up. Of course he would have very much liked to believe that his father had a prophetic revelation that restored him as a rightful son in his eyes. All he wanted was to feel worthy of him (see Ep. 9, the carriage scene with Alicent). And so did all of the Green kids, they wanted to feel worthy of their father's love and somehow feel that they belonged. That they were Targaryen enough for the standards of their father. And Alicent wanted her sacrifice and devotion to have a meaning so, of course she would have hung on to the idea that Viserys, even if it took him 20 years to do so, finally recognized her sacrifice with his dying breath. They needed this confirmation more than anything and when the opportunity came they were more than ready to delude themselves. Because feeling completely abandoned and unworthy hurt even more.

They are so tragically desperate and I love them to bits.

[alicentflorent]

Have you seen GRRM’s recent blog post?

Yes it was so good. I’m glad he doubled down on the damage the changes to blood and cheese did to the narrative, the cruelty of the killers, helaena offering up her own life, the “Sophie’s choice” moment - which according to condal was all maester propaganda right? Well the author has doubled down on the real accurate story which is the book version. He’s correct about cutting Maelor, who isn’t important in himself but his impact on the story was important. Alicent taking the initiative to get her grandchildren to safety when Rhaenyra is about to take the city, ser Rickard Thorne’s sacrifice trying to protect this innocent child (I like the actor who plays him so it’s shame he won’t get his moment), Daeron, the good brother and son, who loses it after hearing about what happened to his nephew and finally helaena, her suicide was directly because of Maelor’s death and now condal is planning on having her commit suicide “for no reason” in season 3, they’ve already taken away the fact that she was loved by the people and major riots break out, the dragons are killed and Rhaenyra is chased from kingslanding directly in response to the people’s princess/queen committing suicide after the horrific deaths of her children which were caused by the blacks.

I’m assuming Alicent won’t be orchestrating the plan to get her family to safety (and do not try telling me she was trying to save jaehaera in that final scene because she just told the enemy she wanted to take aegon’s only heir which was stupid and dangerous), daeron will just be burning down villages for no reason and will just be another Aemond, helaena will probably jump “because of the prophecies” or some bs. See how these changes have made at LEAST three characters less sympathetic? How helaena’s death will be less tragic and not the fault of what was done to her by the blacks in this war? And the fact that he says things are going to get worse story wise in seasons three and four and the fact that he likely broke an nda to write that blog is very telling.

[jelloholic]

My defense of Alicent Hightower in the HotD season 2 finale

(Not an Alicent stan, but this must be said)

Her character is still about duty and sacrifice. It's just that over the course of this season, with many realizations dawning on her, her priorities changed. She loves her kids deeply, but Aegon and Aemond are a threat to everyone, including themselves, the people, and most importantly, Halaena. Things she had not previously known. It's her duty as the mother of Halaena to sacrifice her sons to protect her.

What could she do to protect herself, Halaena and Jahaera? The greens are no longer a safe space for them, and the blacks have shown to simultaneously be threat if they oppose them, but willing to compromise if she so chooses. She no longer has any sway with her own party, but she can negotiate with Rhaenyra. The blacks have the advantage with more dragons, and she can't get rid of them. The greens have the advantage by having Kingslanding, and she can give it away. It's made clear time and time again that the only thing she can do to save Haleana is side with the blacks.

Many things dumbfounded me with the reactions to *that* scene:

"Ryan made her a hypocrite!" That has been an integral part of her character since day 1

"Why did she change her mind after pushing Aegon to the throne herself!?" She was partly misled by her father about his intentions, Aegon is a terrible man and king that serves only as a figurehead for the men around him to use, she misunderstood Viserys's last words, she couldn't predict the future to know that her boys would be violent, the brutality of the war hit her with Aemond and Daemon's actions, etc. These are all things she didn't know beforehand that she only realized in season 2, she became disillusioned, like any other sane person would've been

"How could a mother do that to her own son?!" People tend to idealize motherhood to a ridiculous degree. They have unrealistic expectations of women. How they should always think of all their children all the time, no matter what. Yet when those same mothers defend their horrible children, suddenly they're terrible. When most of us find out a loved one did an incredibly morally reprehensible act, we distance ourselves (or give them one or more chances to redeem themselves before doing so), it's odd that people don't consider that an option for fictional characters. Nothing will ever be good enough for many viewers. These people also tend to forget that bad parents exist? And that their behaviors might've been abusive, but *sometimes* done with good intentions? We established her broken bond with her 2 eldest boys already and why, but people are shocked about Daeron, but she didn't raise him. She's been disconnected from him since the start. Most parents who give their children away will grieve at first, then eventually move on and only think about the kid occasionally. She's focusing on doing what's good for her daughter now, 'monsters' and 'strangers' be damned

I do have criticism for some of the ways she and the other women were written, but this level of outrage is ridiculous

(I will gladly interact with ppl that disagree, but I'm not entertaining misogyny (like calling her a cunt or a bitch), arguments against things I have NOT said, or ppl so lost in their emotions that they can't string up a coherent thought)

[lunamond]

"And yet you toil still in service to men. Your father, your husband, your son. You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison. Have you ever imagined yourself on the Iron Throne?"

Rhaenys Targaryen, Ep 9

There are a lot of moments in Hotd that are quite dumb. But this is probably one of my most hated quotes in the whole show.

What does Rhaenys even mean by this?

"You toil in service of men"???

Ehm, Rhaenys?? That's literally all you've been doing this whole season?!

There could definitely have been a version of Rhaenys (based on the book) who is ambitious and focused on her own power, but that is absolutely not show!Rhaenys. Throughout the show, Rhaenys continuously helps Corlys to advance his various schemes to build his legacy.

Not her or even their legacy, no, it's all about HIS legacy.

She is even willing to sacrifice her children for this purpose (marrying Laena to Viserys, and Laenor to Rhaenyra). And while she is critical of this both times, she still goes along with her husband’s demands.

Her behaviour perfectly lines up with what Alicent says:

“We do not rule, but we may guide the men that do.”

And then the most offensive parts:

"You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison."

Ok? What should Alicent do then? Just casually dismantle the entire system of patriarchy?

This line is just utterly baffling to me. It would be one thing if this moment revealed a deep internal bias on Rhaenys' part, but based on the way this entire scene is framed and discussed by the fandom, it seems to be meant as a badass moment in which Rhaenys really calls out Alicent.

But, if we take this prison metaphor a bit further:

If Westerosi patriarchy is the prison and Alicent crowning her son and exerting power only through her influence over him is merely a window, then what does that mean for every Targaryen dragonriding princess or queen that have come before her?

What have they done to dismantle this prison?

I'm personally confused about what exactly Rhaenys is calling Alicent out for? Is she criticising Alicent for not elevating other women? Is she criticising her for not breaking herself out and seizing power?

If it is the former, then Rhaenys is being quite hypocritical, considering that Rhaenyra, in the previous episode, just convinced her to give Driftmark to Lucerys instead of Baela.

Rhaenys herself has scarcely done anything to liberate herself, her daughter or her granddaughter.

If it is the latter, then this is quite tone deaf, considering Rhaenys is part of the ruling dynasty, almost became ruling queen, and in her big show of defiance is literally breaking through the ground massacring hundreds on a dragon.

Rhaenys calling out another woman who has none of these things for not breaking free of these constraints while she herself couldn’t even manage it is quite frankly dumb as hell.

"Have you ever imagined yourself on the Iron Throne?"

This last sentence is probably the dumbest part of this entire quote.

I'm quite honestly baffled by what Rhaenys is even supposed to mean with this. Is she asking if Alicent ever considered ruling through her husband/son? Then, yeah, that's literally what she is trying to do.

But if Rhaenys is asking if Alicent imagined herself literally sitting the throne in her own right.

Like, no? Alicent is only a consort?! Should she do a coup? Overthrow the Targaryen dynasty?

Ultimately, this scene is just really indicative of Hotd's greatest flaw. The writers are aware that the driving source of conflict in both Alicent and Rhaenyra's lifes is the misogyny they experience, but not enough to comprehend this struggle in a nuanced and complicated way.

So instead, they end up putting their female characters in anti female oppression and pro oppression categories.

Either they're rebellious punk rock and not like other girls, or they are a prudish trade wife and are part of women for trump. Either they're Team Black or Team Green.

This is just super disappointing because for one feudal patriarchy doesn't work like that, but it also takes away all sympathy from the women who don't have the ability for open defiance out.

In the end, the show is more concerned with giving the "good" women, badass girlboss moments, showing how they defy the system.

[bl00dlight]

It couldn’t be more clear Helaena asks Aemond about the price he pays not because she’s mad he burned her husband (her reaction to Aegon’s return is flat and uncaring, they have never displayed any affection towards each other) but because she is serving as his conscience here. His lack of response is a clear answer, but we are supposed to understand she is playing the role of the audience and asking this to him. Not for herself or Aegon or even Alicent. But if they admit that they have to admit there is no canon relationship between Helaegon

Holy shit BALLSSSS THANK YOU! It's like I'm constantly shaking my head going? What show are yall watching?

Also Ewan has discussed this scene recently and confirmed that yea, Helaena is asking Aemond about himself. It has nothing to do with anyone's suffering but what is about to occur to him? Aemond subconsciously knows that the choice he is making is to basically destroy the idea of him as an 'honourable' man. Something which we've seen him strive for not because he IS honourable but because he wants the validation he feels be might get from it. Ewan has said that Aemond is in need of love, comfort and attention, to be seen, to be respected and validated. He knows he isn't going to get that from his mother via playing the role of the dutiful son, so what does he do? Fuck it all then. Fuck my brother, fuck the Madame, fuck Alicent, fuck everyone and everything who will make me weaker/hurts me/doesn't see me, I want the throne and I will get it no matter the price to myself.

Ewan talks about Aemond and Helaena being on the outside which is why they share an affinity. That they have been sidelined for Aegon. Aemond who is dealing with the fact he has been tormented by Aegon, disfigured and has also been dutiful his entire life; is proactive in proving himself superior to his brother; thus he happily takes the opportunity to seize the throne because he feels he is owed it. He doesn't need to reconcile with hurting Aegon, he wants to hurt him. He is reconciling and accepting what he is going to lose by doing this.

Thus why it's Helaena who even asks him this, because she is the only one who has a similar trauma to Aemond. She is looking at him throw everything to the wind and is going "Is the cost of the throne worth what you will lose?" And it's a neutral question for her, but yes she is tensed/stressed because she is watching Aemond drive himself into darkness. Again, Alicent the whole episode has been saying "My son is becoming a fucking sociopath, why is no one doing anything?"

THATS what Helaena is alluding to. The price of the throne is Aemond's own soul.

Helaena has been martially raped, used as a broodmare, ignored by her family, dismissed and invalidated/ made to feel deluded - retreats within herself, is highly observant of other people, experiences premonitions of the future/experiences the past, present and future all at once, which is completely overwhelming and has no understanding of the things she sees until they HAPPEN; warns others of it/gives illusions to it. She warned them of Meleys. She warned Aegon of B&C and now she warns Aemond of the price he will pay. Which happens in S1 where she LITERALLY SAYS "HE'LL HAVE TO CLOSE AN EYE" in order to claim Vhagar. That was the price he paid - and Aemond pays it. She is doing it again, warning him of what he will lose. Because why would she ask him "Was it worth hurting Aegon?" When the answer is obviously... yes... not only does Helaena not care about Aegon, she knows Aemond fucken hates him and actively sought out to kill him? So why would she ask him if the throne is worth killing Aegon, when the answer is yes because Aemond literally happily attempted to kill him already? She knows Aemond is willing to do it. She is questioning the sacrifice of his morality. Not if the wellbeing of Aegon is worth it?

She is warning Aemond of his own future, she is absolutely serving as his own consciousness in a way, asking if this will all be worth what he is going to lose in the process. And for Aemond, just like his eye - he is going to accept the price for the throne. To be in charge, to get what he feels is owed, since he knows he can't get it any other way.

Mfs are so insistent on characterisation between Helaena and Aegon which just is not there because they can't fathom the idea that their ship is based on the fact that Aegon and Helaena is not a relationship which exists beyond two ships passing in the night. That's literally it. Helaena and Aemond have had more memorable moments of connection and they've not even exchanged more than one line of dialogue in the entire series to one another.

[cateyesinlove]

OH BY THE GODS! what a delicious scene!

Let’s talk about….

let's begin with the most satisfying part of this scene to see Alicent open her eyes and realize that she is nothing without the system she upheld for so long. Without men to lift them who in return lift her she finally feels like Rhaenyra but she can't defy said system so she has to run, she has to take Helaena ( who Alicent thrust into the same position she was shoved as a child but even younger, Helaena was 13 when she married aegon and probably between 14 and 15 when she was pregnant).

The fact that Alicent tries so hard to be the victim and make Rhaenyra feel like this is somehow still her fault and that all of Alicents flaws are because Rhaenyra is WILD but still incredible because Rhaenyra gags her ass and makes her see how she can’t keep washing her hands of guilt for the things SHE has done, and set into motion. All who have died, their blood is on Alicents hands, especially because Cole was her sworn sword, the man who has an insane amount of blood in his hands.

Then we get to the part where Alicent who has raised all her sons to be full of hatred has told numerous times that Rhanyra was evil, cruel, a monster, that she hates them and would put them to the sword at any minute, and is surprised her sons are monsters. She has basically indoctrinated them to be in a constant flight or fight when it comes to their sister and now she thinks little of them and is willing to just give her sons up to die after she is the reason they are like that?

This is the catalysis of the end of Alicents "complex" character they tried to do everything with this character but they ended up doing nothing. She wasn’t a villain nor she was a good character, she was a bad written character that tried to have layers but all of them ended up mushing together like even when Rhaenyra and her are speaking and Alicent says she tried to do what Viserys wanted yet she talks about how he never stopped loving Aemma and that’s why he kept Rhaenyra as her yet she still pushed for Aegon to be crowned.

Finally I know we all have different takes on the parallel between these two in the final shot but my take is the next;

Rhaenyra who has always been trapped under the weight of being a Targaryen since she was young, from the expectations of marrying and everyone wanting her valyrian blood, being named heir, upholding her claim to always having in the back of her mind the prophecy, and how she and her lineage are meant to unite the realm against the true enemy. She whose blood will bring the prince who was promised.

Then there is Alicent who is finally "free" but who in reality has always been free. She built herself a prison and a window from where she only allowed herself to see Rhaenyra, having the impression Rhaenyra was "free" and could do as she please when in reality she is the one making the sacrifices, the one bounded by duty. Alicent WAS free yet she chose to be trapped under her father's thumb when she brought him back to court, she chose to poison her sons, she chose to crown Aegon, she chose a fake prison where she could sulk and hate Rhaenyra but now she has finally realized she has always been free.

[fan-goddess]

MY ANALYSIS OF THAT AEMOND SCENE IN EP 2

A/N: This is not fully proofread but I hope everything makes sense and that credit has been rightfully given when needed. If links are missing let me know so i can correct any mistakes at all.

DISCLAIMER: Now I would like to start this by saying I will be talking about THE CHARACTER mainly but will mention Ewan and Michelle Bonnard who plays the brothel madam purely most likely in regard to their amazing performances in the scene. Though you bet I will be mentioning the horrifying action some people have been committing at the end of this post. Okay? Now let’s begin!

When looking back at when I made the post speculating who the person holding Aemond in that small scene we witnessed in the trailer it’s now come to light that the woman is the brothel Madame whose name I found out is actually Sylvi.

But still, with that realisation looking back at the earlier points I had made through help of other people on this app in the original analysis of the clip of this scene shown in the HOTD season 2 trailer which I shall link here if anyone wished to go read my first thoughts on this as I will be making plenty references from that post mainly in this paragraph/section. First and foremost, I will say while the lady in the scene being the brothel madame was the most likely given scenario given the evidence shown through the various posts theories and leaks, it is still a sad one. No one should feel the need to go back to their abuser, so to witness Aemond be forced to do that is horrible and frankly uncomfortable to watch even for a short time.

But back to the original post, me and @/anjelicawrites discussed how in that scene it seemed that Aemond was finally directly suffering for his actions in the war, AKA killing Luke even if it was on accident which would lead to the murder of Jaehaerys his nephew. As previously mentioned it looks as though he is becoming something that even he said he would never become as he says to Criston when on the search for Aegon so he could be crowned as the king, as Anjelica mentioned to me, that the two of them were people with morals. So by having Aemond go back to the brothel madam and effectively throw away those morals he insisted he possessed, it shows that even he is not safe and that no one is truly immune to the grief of war and that sacrifices must be made by all to 'get through their hardships.' This idea could also be seen in Alicent and Criston Cole as both are sacrificing once key morals they held about themselves to be with each other. (The showing of that definitely surprised a bunch of people myself included...)

When looking back mentioning the limited shown background of the scene in the trailer clip it appears I was correct when assuming it was a brothel. The room is new to us but when thinking about how Aemond went to far as to go back to the place of his abuser and user her for comfort, is it too a farfetched idea to think that maybe that room he is in is the same one he was in at ten and three when he had his first sexual encounter with the madame? Originally the idea when looking back at season 1 Aemond was that he could've gone to the brothel in order to psychologically hurt himself, as when looking at the damage he has caused to his family physical pain especially with the massive amount of physical pain he's been through already, he may have thought that wasn't a worthy punishment. But in actuality now that we know the scenes context we are aware that the reason he went to the brothel and into the arms of the madame was actually for comfort rather than punishment. Plus, with the reveal that that wasn't the first time there, it further cements this idea that Aemond is slowly morphing into another version of Aegon. Though when thinking of the scenes that'll progress in the future he'll slowly morph into his own person with hints of Aegon imbued into him.

That was all the references to the previous post analysing the scene clip shown in the trailer, so now these next sections shall be analysing the scene from only Episode 2 of this season as I am aware there'll be further references to Aemond being in the brothels later on.

One point which I mentioned earlier but would like to bring up again to talk about is the fact that it is revealed by both Aemond and the brothel madame but mainly by her, that Aemond has visited the brothel and by extension the madame more than that time shown on screen. Now when looking back in season 1 where Aemond and Cole go to the brothel in an attempt to find Aegon, we can see that Aemong is uncomfortable being in the presence of the madame. He does not speak to her, nor does he even manage to keep eye contact with her, instead only being able to really look at the floor as she comments about, "How hes grown..." The reference of that comment she even makes in the scene as she speaks while attempting to kiss him, saying "How the boy has grown into a man." With those words in mind we can deduce that Aemond started going back to the madame after that moment and not before. In my opinion, given what service the madame is providing him with, I believe Aemond began seeing her after Alicents reaction to him revealing that he killed lucerys. In the series they chose to not show team Green's reaction to Aemond killing Lucerys, so for the sake of this argument i will imagine that the same reaction was made off-screen. It is said that hearing the news of what Aemond had done, Alicent paled and cried out for mercy from the mother, while Otto told Aemond directly, "You only lost one eye, how could you be so blind?" This kind of reaction that Aemond receives after killing Luke by accident is not what he wanted to hear. After experiencing that type of rejection when he so desperately would want comfort is probably what led him into the arms of the only other woman he knows who has seen him at his most vulnerable. AKA the brothel madame.

But thanks to the shows decisions to suddenly spring the scene on us we will have no direct idea on why Aemond actually chose to go back to his abuser or when it all started which is annoying but is just something we will need to deal with unfortunately whether we like it or not. I saw a post by @/aemondsbabe where they responded to an ask talking about how sad it is that Aemond was self soothing and finding a form of comfort with the madame, and they made an interest point where they mentioned how 'him going back to his abuser for comfort does draw interesting parallels with rhaenyra and daemon though!' which is actually a really interesting take. As yes, Rhaenyra did go back to Daemon for comfort during the time when her inheritance and her sons legitimacy where called into question especially since Laenor except publicly claiming the boys as his sons did not do much to dispel the rumours. So when facing that challenge Rhaenyra goes to who she knows best, who just so happens to be her abuser. The parallels in this season are genuinely insane and I can't wait to see what other stuff they'll add later on.

Now onto the actual scene itself! One thing that was brought to my attention as I had actually missed it the first time I watched it, is the pouring of the milk the director used to bring us to the brothel scene. At first i had assumed it was just another alcohol, but when it was pointed out to me by another tumblr (The user i cannot remember given that since then there's been a lot of people discussing this aspect of the scene) I cannot help but think even when it is a small thing it adds so much more depth to the scene when you think about it. It adds that extra layer as it brings more to the light Aemonds needs in that scene. Aemond from what it looks like in the scene age regressing himself to a younger point in his life and the use of the hot milk emphasises that. It does not mean Aemond necessarily is attempting to make himself into the age of that of an infant but from parallels i've seen from multiple gif creators, it looks as though Aemond is attempting to go back to the time of season 1 episodes 6 and 7 when he is around 10 years old with both his eyes and without the trauma given to him by Aegon and the brothel. The milk may just be used as a method to get his mind to revert to that younger state. Though I must confess that in some certain fanfics I have read here (I shall not name specifics but they were all delicious) where the milk was used to stimulate the idea of a lactating women, by having the milk be pored onto the breasts and having Aemond drink it up. Though since we did not get a sexual variation of the scene, the only reasoning that Aemonds brothel visits may turn sexual being that when the brothel madame goes to kiss Aemond on the lips he moves away with a noise saying "not here" suggesting either for another time or it could mean he keeps putting off any suggestions for his meetings with the madame to turn into anything sexual. Aemond wants to stay in this childlike mindset for the whole time he's there as that is how he is dealing with his grief and his emotions since he cannot find a way to deal with it in any other way. If he turns the whole thing sexual he looses his outlet which defeats the purpose of it all.

Another aspect of the scene that i want to explicitly talk about which I did actually mention in my original analysis of the clip in the trailer is the positioning that Aemond is in. The position Aemond first was in with his head by the madames curve of her neck actually is a direct parallel to how Alicent holds him after Aegon Jace and Luke presented him with the pink dread and in retaliation to that attempted to visit Dreamfyre and see if she had laid any eggs for him to get his own dragon for himself. I cannot take direct credit for seeing this given that it was by @/emmaziadarcy and their post showing the parallels more clearly than anything I had originally thought about further cementing this parallel for me. This also supports the idea that Aemond in the brothel is age regressing as he's trying to appear himself as being younger while using the madame as a surrogate for Alicent. Just as he does at Driftmark soon as he looses his eye with Alicent, he places his head in the curve of the madames neck therefre showing that its a motherly affection and love he is craving and not something that is primarily sexual as far as i am aware since we have not really been seen anything that directly shows it. As far as i could tell the only real sexual thing I have seen/have seen talked about between these two characters is some boob touching/sucking and some naked hugs/cuddling.

One other position Aemond gets in with the madame is the one that we saw in the HOTD season 2 trailer, which involves Aemond after refusing to allow her to kiss him moving so his head is now on the madams lap and his body is curled into a fetal position close to her. This position is what I discussed in my original analysis post, where i talked about how given with how he was sitting it suggested intimacy bordering even on motherly, which is exactly what Aemond was attempting to achieve by having himself in such a vulnerable state before this woman posing as a motherly figure for him. The rest of that section was me discussing about Alicents reaction to the news of Lukes death and how after killing him, Aemond would no doubt want a comfort for the guilt he no doubt would be facing after being forced to realise that he is the definite reason for the dance of the dragons to kick start. So naturally after not being able to find that comfort with the person who had been most likely to give it to you, you find a worthy enough surrogate. Which in Aemonds case became the brothel madame, the reasoning for as i previously stated earlier, the reasoning for which is unknown.

The fact that even when Aemond has been shown to be Alicents favoured child between her four he is still feels like their are certain things he cannot say or actions he cannot show with his mother, who through season 1 was shown to provide him with affection and favouritism given that he was the only child of hers who felt like hers, is sad and honestly heartbreaking to watch unveil onscreen. Plus as well after reading @/humanpurposes post talking about their thoughts of Aemond in episode two, (the link found here if you want to go read)they spoke about how they found it interesting how Aemond doesn't have many moments with his family even after the death of Jaehaerys, making them think that Aemond fundamentally sees himself as an outsider. This makes sense as Aemond even says that he saw himself as an outsider on the lap of the brothel madame. Ewan says in an interview somewhere that Aemond saw himself as an outsider as a child being the only one at the time with no dragon and finding and connecting with Vhagar who was a dragon all alone. Ewan also says how 'he never really felt that unconditional love from anyone really, maybe finding it in Vhagar who is an older she-dragon or maybe he found it in the madame. In a way he’s just a broken boy needing to be fixed and someone’s going to help him'.

The things Aemond talks about are even similar to that of a child as well, as he attempts to brag about Daemon seeing him as a worthy opponent. Let me remind you he is in the lap of a whore who he has almost definitely needed to pay for to get the service of, and yet he still feels the need to brag and try and impress this woman, similarly to how you would brag and get attention from your mother. He says these before admitting to regret killing Luke and opening up about his sad childhood involving the bullying and how his younger nephew used to tease him. He puts these harsh walls up immediately almost in a strange attempt to remind the madame who she has in her lap. But literally as soon as she reaffirms his beliefs by saying Daemon has a right to fear him, Aemond moves into the second position where he does not need to look at her like he did in the starting position and he himself knocks those walls down by admitting to the things above. He checks he's safe in the environment and then lets it all out to his surrogate. It's these details that do keep me impressed though I am probably just easily swayed when brought face to face with Aemond.

An aspect I noticed from the scene and have yet to notice anyone else talk about this, is that the Madame almost doesn't seem to know how to handle this side of Aemond. In brothels the kind of men who most likely visit are the ones who just want a quick fuck or just any sort of sexual encounter, so that is what the ladies are trained for/expect for. But Aemonds thing doesn't really involves sexual encounters as far as we know. His thing is just wanted the comfort that comes with sex without the sex part. When watching the scene I noticed her facial expressions as soon as Aemond began to divulge in his personal stuff, which to me said that while she knew what she needed to do exactly in the physical side of Aemonds delusion she needed to think on the spot for how she needed to say things for the speaking side. As most of the time the speaking side involved saying what the customer needed to hear which usually involved sexual undertones, but as I press Aemond isn't looking for pure sexual comments he is looking for comforting words that would mimic that of a mother speaking to her beloved child. When he talks of Daemon sending the assassins she is in thought about her words speaking simply so she can get on with the convo, she doesn't look at him when he speaks on that even thought that probably is what she should be doing but as soon as he says something she can focus on talking about such as Daemon being afraid of him she can look at him and say the things she knows he'll want to hear. Which in that case was confirming how he's a worthy foe and how Daemon should be afraid of him. Only this is when she makes the mistake of going with the teachings of turning the conversation sexual as she repeats the similar words she spoke in season 1 episode 9 about how 'the boy has turned into a man', which is just another way of puffing up his ego and making him feel good about himself. Though Aemond deflects this tactic as he wants to stay in the headspace of a different time and changes positions so he cannot see her, yet she immediately moves how he wants her to be and touches him in ways he'll let her. As soon as he mentions Luke she looks shocked and barely moves in an attempt to think of how this'll play out and how she'll need to adapt to this situation. She does not speak out of turn until he speaks so she knows the rules in which she needs to follow and when doing so she'll know what to say to make him a happy customer who will return with more money. Soon as he says his regrets she moves into a more nurturing position and says words that'll make him more happy, saying she's glad to hear he's sorry for his actions which humanises him to himself which Aemond will no doubt have been glad to hear rather than be called all sorts of names from his other family members who still believe Aemond killed Luke on purpose. She pauses again hearing about Aemonds bullying but this is what intrigues me. She says, "I would remind you only that when princes lose their temper, it is often others who suffer." I had to think about this for a minute as to me she's saying how Princes do not get punishments for loosing their tempers but others, which in this case Luke is the one who suffered and even his whole family suffered as Aemond was not their while Jaehaerys was slain in his bed. She pauses before continuing in her words, as she needed to gauge his interest to see if she was permitted to still speak about this topic. But in her next words she just says "The smallfolk... like me" This seems to be the worst wording she could use at that time as she has officially at that moment to me broke the daydream Aemond had about what he was doing by reminding him where he was and who she was. He was in a smallfolk brothel laying on the lap of a brothel madame who was just a smallfolk whore. Not in his chambers being comforted by his mother. I don't even know why she said those extra words as was she trying to day the smallfolk like her suffer? Were there extra words to the sentence the scene just didn't show us? Either way those extra words confuse me.

An article I think will be quite informative to read is linked here, and it details about how sex within the world of House Of the Dragon mainly in this season is used as a form of power. One of the examples they talked about is Aemond which is why I desire to mention it in a special reserved section. The article talks about how we see Aemond using sex as a means of control by going back to the woman who took his virginity as a child after being paid to do so by Aegon. And while we don't see them actually having sex, only the aftermath, it's only then does Aemond admit to his guilt showing it's only after sex that he feels vulnerable enough to utter this. Further more in the post they write, 'He clearly thinks he cannot show this side of himself to his family, so he seeks out someone with no connection to the Targaryens or Hightowers, and seemingly very little influence.' and it makes a lot of sense for this to be the case, especially as she reminds him at the very end of the scene that she is just a smallfolk with no importance who will not allow his secret to be revealed as he could just have her simply killed and not be directly forced to pay the consequences. Another quote from the article that just makes just so much sense for me is this. 'By sleeping with his first sexual partner again, Aemond is also reclaiming a sense of control that was initially taken away from him. His first encounter with Sylvie was nonconsensual (certainly by today’s standards), but by going back to her on his own terms, he ensures that neither Aegon nor Sylvie wields any power over him. Aemond drives the transformation of their relationship, which gives him space to be more than just someone's protector.' THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THEIR RELATIONSHIP!!! HE IS MAKING SURE NO ONE HAS AN UPPER HAND ON HIM AND WITH THE MADAM THAT IS BY USING SEX AS A POWER TOOL!!! I will leave this section with yet another direct quote from the article (please read it it's so informative it really opened my eyes.) 'None of these characters stare hungrily at the people they’re having sex with. Instead, they look at their lovers with a sense of despair, as if the act and who they’re doing it with brings them pain. Yet when they’re over, Alicent, Criston, and Aemond leave these encounters with their backs held a bit straighter, as if, in these hidden encounters, they have regained a sense of control in their lives that continue to unravel under the weight of a war.'

All this next information was provided to me from a post written by @/thephantomphonecase who was answering an ask about how the writers for this season seem to have lost Aemond. I shall link the post here for you to read in full. According to them the possible reasoning as to why Aemond to you may not be acting as his season 1 self is because during production Condal and Hess were replaced by a showrunner from the crown as they missed script deadlines season 2 production from months due to the fact they couldn't finish the scripts in a timely manner. 'The things you are seeing on screen are a jumble of Condal and Hess's ideas patch worked by someone who knows absolutely dick about ASoIaF or the characters beyond what he read in the show bible.' He was also brought in as a sort of fixer to get production back on track and to script doctor Condal and Hess's work on the scripts, so if the characters don't seem to act the way you are expecting them to act or the way they acted in season 1 then it is due to the fact they were rewritten and doctored by a person who the studio paid to take over for incompetent producers and who doesn't know much the characters or the books lore. The reason the ghost showrunner was brought in was because of his experience writing royal family drama and the team green family were based on them British Royal Family dynamics of the Royal House of Windsor, with politically and public relations minded patriarchs and cold detached matriarchs that don't know how to show love included. So while certain scene acting is really great the lore and the characters are off because he doesn't know anything about the characters beyond from what he's seen in Season 1, and read from Condal and Hess's rejected scripts and their show bible.

The performances from them both were phenomenal though overall as it's with these small extra details the actors make that keep me intrigued and watching eagerly for more. The body language the two made when shooting this was detailed and wonderful and was successful in making this scene what it was intended to be. This was not some lovey dovey romantic meet up between lovers this was intended to be disturbing for viewers as they watched Aemond repulse away as soon as the moment became even inherently sexual moving and speaking like that of an exhausted child as that is what he is! Aemond is technically meant to be 17 years old which in this modern day is a child, who has never been taught how to safely navigate through his emotions while also piloting a fucking humongous war dragon bigger than anything ever. He is a child craving his mothers love and Ewan captured that brilliantly. Michelle Bonnard playing Sylvi the brothel madam was brilliant too in her own performance as she nailed the looks the hesitations the way she spoke all of it seemed natural and like how a woman who has been constantly fighting against men bigger than her who say! She is wonderful in being able to hate the character like many other amazing actors who managed to achieve that same task! We know jack all about her yet she has told us so much in such little time it's astonishing! I could not commemorate these two enough!

Now. The bodyshaming. It's disgusting to say the least that those who oohed and awed at his body in season 1 now that his body has been shown nude on camera have decided to do a 180 declaring his body words and phrases I shall not say on here. Ewan choosing to show his body was his choice and from seeing 'High life', another movie Ewan did in 2018 we saw he doesn't mind showing a little skin in front of the camera (a lot more skin in episode 3 i'll tell you that!) Still, by him showing himself off means he is comfortable enough to do that. So by calling him awful names, comparing him to awful things and just being awful cunts means we are betraying that trust Ewan has given us. Ewan could go back into the dark as his mental health could be affected by this attack on his body. Not Aemonds body but his, as funnily enough EWANS BODY IS AEMONDS BODY. I've seen some people saying excuses and that his body is due to CGI work. But since Ewan is a method actor and we've heard nothing of any CGI, I'm gonna say it's probably not been used. It was a deliberate choice on Ewans parts as the idea was brought to my attention by @/feralsaarebas that the choice to go that thin for the role/scene was, '100% a deliberate choice to highlight the sheer fragility of him beneath at all. How he was never able to grow or flourish in his environment and is in a way stunted and malnourished.' and I agree! (Their post linked here as they had other things to say I just didn't add) It is another layer of Aemond Ewan has added which honestly is such an interesting detail people may have missed as they chose to ignore it and instead focus on taking the piss out of him. It's overall disgusting behaviour and it's a horrid thing to have to witness mutuals and those I follow who i thought also adored Ewan make posts denouncing the character and make fun of him. Just because Aemond didn't turn out like how you thought he would, like some sort of daddy dominating bdsm king, doesn't mean you get to shame how he and the script people have decided to go with the characters future breaking your dream about him. It's stuff like this that makes me think about why this fandom has turned so sour so quickly.

I hope people found this post informative and have a lovely day/night. Thank you to all those whose posts I have managed to compile to make this post and to all those who encouraged me to write this. There were so many more I could've probably added but didn't get around to adding/fitting in.

[lemonhemlock]

what are your thoughts on the madonna-whore complex allegations constantly lobbed at criston from rhaenicent and rhaenyra stans alike. because i dont see it at all. also a lot of them don't even seem to be using the madonna-whore complex correctly. it's supposed to be in regard to men in relationships with woman that lose sexual arousal for these women when they see them in more domestic, motherly, etc. light. the fandom is so collectively off base about this lmao.

yeah, i feel like criston's stuff is a bit more complicated, even just based on the information given in S1. in a way, you can say he grows to be attracted to the mother figure and repulsed by the whore figure, but he wasn't always like that. he himself said he had dalliances with girls before joining the kingsguard and he is very much attracted to the outgoing, spunky maiden rhaenyra, but there is also this tension with the quiet, introverted young alicent in his confession scene!

i'm not sure exactly how to word this, but criston strikes me as the type of man who is malleable, who doesn't have much in the way of plans or objectives. he lived a pretty aimless life before he is introduced on screen and joined the kingsguard as it was a prestigious institution which offered him structure and something to strive for. so, in a way, he replaced his haphazard youth with knightly ideals and gallantry. but, even this purposelessness - i wouldn't hold it above his head as a fault either. westerosi society just doesn't have the space for someone like him - the son of minor nobility, who probably doesn't have much in the way of inheritance. he can't exactly go out and "get a job" (the sources of wealth creation aren't very diversified) without it being considered a huge stepdown and humiliation and bringing shame on his family (the social stratification really might seem very alien to someone living in 2024). so, of course that in a society that values martial prowess (something he happens to be good at), he would be attracted to activities in the militaristic sphere.

and i don't mean to say that he is just amoral and doesn't have any principles either, i'm sure he would LIKE to be this perfect knight that embodies self-sacrifice and courage and selflessness, but, like many other westerosi institutions, the kingsguard is an oppressive one. it's NOT normal to impose abstinence on someone, it's NOT normal to not allow them to retire and make them live this frugal, unattached life, just trailing after royalty all day, standing for hours on end in rooms and hallways. so, of course, criston finds it difficult (i'm guessing a lot of the kingsguard members had similar feelings) and of course he "strays" (that's one way of putting it, bc we all remember the discussions on the non-consensual nature of that scene).

criston's existential crisis is very real and raw and a by-product of the westerosi feudal system - what IS a man like him supposed to do with his life? he thought he had found purpose in the kingsguard, but he found himself in a situation where he broke his vows, so he tries to reason that maybe his new purpose can be rhaenyra - his love for her, running away with her, marrying her, taking care of her etc. so it very much doesn't matter for him that she herself gave away her chastity before marriage (and could be thus labelled a "whore" by their society's standards). but when rhaenyra refuses him - it's like that quote from dostoevsky - “your worst sin is that you have destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing.”

so, where i'm going with this is that criston has personal beef with rhaenyra. she behaved towards him in a careless way and discarded him without a second thought, whereas for him their affair was a huge, all-consuming thing. now, had rhaenyra went on and lived an exemplary life as a married woman, with no bastard children, he still probably would have hated her for what she did, but, i'm not sure, just based off S1 information, that he would still call her names

to go back to the madonna-whore axis, like you said, men who have that complex tend to view the "whore" as someone sexually appealing - whereas i think criston's disillusionment with rhaenyra has surpassed any attraction he had for her in the past. meanwhile, despite being a "mother" figure, alicent's life of quiet servitude has made her very attractive in his eyes. but! who is to say that rhaenyra couldn't have been more diplomatic and empathetic with him in handling their affair? had she put a bit more effort in, manipulated him into being her secret lover instead of harwin strong? sure, he could have refused, but had she played the woe-is-me card, the i-have-to-sacrifice-my-happiness-for-the-good-of-the-realm and convinced him that she wasn't going along with his oranges plan because she, too, had higher ideals she had to serve, i don't think he would have seen her in this unfavourable light (what if rhaenyra were a different person entirely LOL)

so, basically, what i mean to say is that, ultimately, rhaenyra treated criston in a nasty way and now he hates her, whereas alicent treated him with kindness and now he worships the ground she walks on. but what if the roles were reversed? what if alicent had been unpleasant to him and rhaenyra the compassionate one? would criston still be crowning king aegon? is this truly about a madonna-whore complex or about personal relationships, how you behave towards people and how those past grievances interact when it comes to securing someone's loyalty? everyone is more inclined to be indulgent towards their friends and to keep their side, even if they might not always be in the right. it's easier to go to bat for someone you like than for someone you don't! people can always rationalise their principles away in such situations and develop double-standards

[cambion-companion]

alicent gets SO much hate from the fandom even from aemond writers 😔 i trust you and your good taste that you don’t hate her and write something where aemond’s wife and alicent absolutely ADORE each other and aemond loves to see it and is so happy about his two favourite people in the world being so close

Yes, the more I watched the show the more I grew to like Alicent until her line "Hesitance to murder is not a weakness", then I was like "yep I love this woman."

The Driftmark scene is such a powerful one, I included some of the dialogue. Alicent's reaction was justified, no one was backing her up, or taking responsibility for MAIMING her son, so she felt the need to escalate the situation. And good for her.

Word count: 1366

Aemond x reader | fluff | Pro Alicent Hightower | Sweet drabble

The shouting is what had alerted you to something being amiss in the castle, raised voices echoing up the empty stone corridors as you poked a curious head out your bedroom door.

You had been sent to be princess Helaena's handmaiden at the age of thirteen, finding the Red Keep to be suffocating most of the time, thankful for this chance to travel elsewhere. Driftmark had proven to be lovely, even if the reason for your journey was not at all a happy one.

Pulling on your heavy nightrobe, you made your way hastily toward the sound of shouting coming from a firelit room at the end of the hallway. You peeked in, seeing that it was indeed very crowded, children clinging to their parents as Viserys and Alicent argued. You spotted Helaena over by the large fireplace standing beside her brother, Aegon. Next to them, sitting on the sofa, blood covering his swollen face...you gasped audibly, drawing the attention of those standing nearest to the entrance.

Aemond clearly very injured, the boy you'd become close friends with had stitches running down the left side of his face, his eye...you blinked back a sting of sudden tears, his eye had been slashed out. Not caring what gossip arose from your actions, you hastened to Aemond's side. He looked up at you in mild surprise at your sudden appearance, his expression turning stony as he tried to turn the injured side of his face away from your probing gaze.

You touched his hand that clutched at the cushions, opening your mouth to say something, but a scuffle of movement behind you caught your attention as Alicent went for Viserys' knife and turned toward Rhaenyra and her children.

Rhaenyra intercepted her, the two women locked in a standoff with the other, Alicent gripping the blade tightly in her shaking hand.

"You've gone too far." Rhaenyra said emphatically, still holding tight to her once-friend's arms.

"I?" Tears streaked down Alicent's face as she continued struggling. "What have I done, but what was expected of me? Forever upholding the kingdom, the family, the law while you flout it all to do as you please!"

"Alicent, let her go!" King Viserys, old as he was, looked livid as he yelled at his wife.

"Where is duty? Where is sacrifice?" She continued, taking no heed to the king. "It is trampled under your pretty foot again."

"Release the blade, Alicent." Otto's measured voice this time, trying to reason with his daughter.

She continued staring at Rhaenyra, refusing to drop the knife, her expression morphing from desperation to a look of betrayal. "And now you take my son's eye, and to even that you feel entitled."

"Exhausting, wasn't it?" Rhaenyra at last responded. "Hiding beneath the cloak of your own righteousness. But now they see you as you are."

With a sharp cry, Alicent broke away from her grasp, bringing the dagger down, cutting deep into Rhaenyra's arm. The room fell deathly silent, each person present sensing the gravity of what had just occured. The dagger fell from Alicent's open palm, clattering on the stone floor.

The heavy air was broken as Aemond spoke, drawing your attention back to him as he approached Alicent. "Do not mourn me, mother." His voice was soft, tired. "It was a fair exchange. I may have lost an eye, but I gained a dragon."

You knew his words were more to draw attention away from what had just occurred, his mother injuring the heir to the Iron Throne. Though young, Aemond was no fool, and neither were you. You were aware of his abiding love for his mother, watching as he took her hand in both of his, laying his injured head against her chest.

The scene cleared quickly after that, parents ushering their frightened children back to bed. You lingered in the hall, wanting to stay by your friend's side. Helaena touched your shoulder, smiling at you weakly before departing the room as well.

After several long moments, the room was empty save for you, Aemond and Alicent. It took minutes more for Alicent to come back to herself, taking a deep breath and looking down at her son. "Come, Aemond, you need to rest in order to heal."

Her gaze lifted to you, seeming surprised to see you standing still by the fire. "Y/N, the hour is late. You should also be in bed."

You noticed Aemond didn't look at you, standing motionless, gripping his mother's hand loosely.

"Can I be of any help at all, your grace?" You weren't sure why, but the question you posed, and the earnestness behind it, had an effect on the queen. Her expression softened, lip trembling slightly. "I will call on you in the morning, Y/N. For now, get some sleep."

Call on you she did, and for many weeks following it was Alicent and Aemond you spent the majority of your time with. Helaena didn't seem to mind, in fact she would accompany you often, helping where she could, fetching hot water and healing ointments for her younger brother.

Aemond's demeanor at your presence, at first tense and cold, eased as time passed. He looked at you more, allowing you to change his bandages and read to him at night.

Alicent was warm toward you, quickly becoming someone you looked to as a maternal figure, filling an ache in your heart you'd been unaware was there. Her gratitude for your help and care was obvious, it grew apparent not many others in the castle shared your sympathies for the prince. You heard many unkind whispers spreading throughout the Keep, doing your best to pay them no attention.

One day, Aemond almost fully healed, you were packing up the many salves and ointments the maesters had provided. Alicent approached you, touching a warm hand to your shoulder as she often did. "Y/N, you have gone above and beyond any expectations I had of you in helping my son. You are the handmaiden of my daughter, I know you are friends but why do you care so for Aemond's wellbeing?"

You looked up into her face, smiling slightly. "I heard what happened, I saw how alone you were that night. No one else helped, and I don't think that's fair."

"Oh child." Alicent's eyes grew bright with unshed tears as she pulled you against her in a tight hug. "You are a balm sent from the Mother Herself." She lowered herself to crouch at your level, cupping your chin with her hand. "If you ever find yourself in need of anything, you come to me."

She placed a brief kiss to your forehead before sending you out of the room, back to your normal duties.

From then on, the two of you became close as though she were your actual mother and you, her daughter. Many years passed; she was the one you went to when you had questions about growing into womanhood, about all troubles that weighed upon your mind. Your bond with Aemond only strengthened as well, he sought you out often in your reading nook of the library. You would stay up late nights with the prince discussing all interesting things from the history of dragon riding to the customs of Ancient Valyria.

When you were sixteen and he thirteen, Aemond began teaching you some Old Valyrian, at your request. He saw how much Alicent adored you, her face brightening into a fond smile whenever you walked into a room. He loved you for it. There was precious little that brought true happiness to Alicent, her affection for you soothed her troubled heart.

Aemond observed your interactions often with a soft smile upon his face, his feelings for you slowly growing from friendship to something more. He couldn't name what it was that had changed, there were precious few in his life whom he could say he genuinely loved. His mother was top of that short list, his one defender, the woman who had vouched for him when no one else did. Your evident devotion to her, the time you spent talking to her, leaning your head on her shoulder, had left a warm impression upon Aemond's heart. He wouldn't forget the peace you brought those he cared for most, and he intended to make sure you stayed in their lives.

[criston-cole]

i just feel like it's so strange for alicent to go from defending her kids to sacrificing a crippled aegon. yeah she has complicated feelings about her kids, but it's still a strange leap to make. her whole arc last season was about realizing that she HAD to challenge rhaenyra's claim and that the succession crisis was inevitable. the driftmark scene, the scene with rhaenys, aegon's coronation. it's kind of the same for rhaenyra. where is the girl who lied and manipulated to get and do what she wanted? where is the rhaenyra who wanted aemond to be "sharply questioned" for putting her kids in danger? and this season we now get alicent and rhaenyra just dithering back and forth and trying to figure out if the succession crisis is actually inevitable. maybe i just expected both alicent and rhaenyra to have actual teeth and motives instead of the "women are saints who want peace" narrative we're getting.

i don't see their arcs this season as "women are saints who want peace" at all lol rhaenyra literally gets dozens of people killed so she can get more nukes to match up to the other side lol

it's not so simple as alicent just going from defending her kids to just sacrificing aegon. she's still defending helaena & i'd argue that the main driver for her going to rhaenyra was that helaena was becoming increasingly close to being in danger from aemond, who alicent has spent the whole season trying to get through to & failing. he just burned a village, he's a lost cause for her. and she doesn't just go to rhaenyra and say 'have aegon i want peace.' to the last moment she tries to get rhaenyra to spare him, but rhaenyra says no, it's not possible.

i don't see rhaenyra not wanting her kingdom burned to ash to get herself on the throne as 'not having teeth,' a baby got decapitated because a man was so thirsty for blood, i don't think it's crazy that she slowed down because of that. it's clear that by the end of the season, she's more and more willing to sacrifice lives to get herself there.

i think it's way more interesting a story to have two flawed women trying to stop a violent almost meaningless war & failing, because we know they fail, than whatever narrative is pushed by the "sources" in the book idk

[greenqueenhightower]

I agree so much with your analysis of the of the moon tea scene but it also hit me that in this episode we see the Blackwood Lord bring up that he tried to win Rhaenyra’s hand. It’s a reminder that Rhaenyra had the choice and the privilege to choose her spouse, of course she lost that privilege but she did get to choose her children’s fathers. Alicent didn’t and her husband didn’t love hers.

Not that I think Alicent wants to be a mother again at this point in her life. She is a grandmother now (and Jaehaera has become her responsibility as well) and she is practically still raising her adult children and desperately wants her sons them to become self sufficient and less in need of guidance. But I think the pregnancy has again reminded her of a life she was never allowed to have because her life was already chosen for her by her father and Viserys at 14.

She doesn’t really want the child that would come from it but this is first child that wasn’t forced on her. She was a willing participant this time and this child was made out of big, emotions that are new to Alicent like love, lust, freedom, recklessness, indulgence and selfishness. In an another life that she was as never allowed, the child would’ve been born to a man who would be a great father- he has been a better father to her children than their own father.

Ultimately though, she is finally in control of her womb and drinks the tea. Which like choosing a partner this time and consenting to sex, enjoying it, being in control- this is another freedom she never had before. However, I think there is also a side of it that is still duty and sacrifice too though. Alicent is always going to do what she has to do with a stiff upper lip. She’s not Rhaenyra and knows how it would be detrimental to Aegon’s reign and Aegon’s cause for war. It would be the ultimate hypocrisy and an embarrassment to herself and her family. So she does her duty and she makes the only sound choice to be made.

I’m reminded of the line she’s going to say this season about how she always did what was expected of her and how she tried to live by the Seven’s examples and it all still amounts to nothing.

It’s not lost on me that in this episode she aborts the last child to ever take root in her womb. Then she uses the first child to ever grow in her womb as a conduit for all of her anger and negative emotions. She tells him that he has no idea of all the sacrifices she made in her life for him but like herself, he never chose any of this. Otto chose her life and in turn she chose Aegon’s.

So she blows up on Aegon, then he impulsively goes off to war on a dragon to prove himself worthy to her and worthy of his name and title. He’s then gravely injured by the hands of her other son and is on the brink of death. So it’s like once again the life of duty, sacrifice and rationality amounts to nothing. She did not successfully put her son on the iron throne and even after sacrificing so much of herself to protect him, he might still die.

Hi anon 💚

That is an interesting observation! Alicent never had any authority over her body, and she claimed this authority by choosing to sleep with Criston and also consciously choosing to abort his child. Perhaps she thought that had the circumstances been different, she might have wanted to have this child which wasn't conceived as a result of rape. Alicent understands that aborting the child proves to be yet another duty to herself and another sacrifice for the rest of her children.

It is interesting that Alicent can finally be in control of her own narrative, but at the same time, she is still confined within her roles and expectations. Her choice to drink the moon tea is self-liberating from one hand but restrictive from the other, because she knows she has no other option. She has tried hard to grasp and taste freedom, and yet she is still not entirely free. Because even if she wanted to keep the child, that would be denied. So again, she tries hard to gain some agency and control over her body but, ultimately, this is limited to what social conventions and expectations demand of her.

This is why I liked the framing in the last shot of the moon tea scene as the camera zooms out and shows Alicent already suffering her abortion pains, defined by the pillars and the furniture in her room that becomes her prison. No matter how hard she tries to escape, no matter what she does, she is still bound. It is so tragic to think about.

Your points about how she uses Aegon as a conduit for all her anger for what she had to go through minutes before but also what she went through her whole life make total sense. Aegon has become the representation of all her troubles and the manifestation of her trauma. She lashes out at him because she could never lash out at Otto or Viserys, and in her mind, Aegon becomes synonymous with the person "who started it all."

So Aegon takes the blame for being the reason she is still there, in the castle, confined by others' expectations, forced to dote on duty and sacrifice, forced to give birth to more children. He takes the blame for all of his father's and grandfather's sins, and in his face, she sees her pain but also her strength, perseverance, and self-claimed power, since he is the reason she has become the person she is. She would never change him for the world, because that would deny and negate all she ever lived for. The possibility that he might die and with him, part of her own sense of self-worth, must be harrowing for Alicent.

I can't wait to see more of them next episode. The dynamic they have is one of the best, if not the best, in the entire show.