#thoughts and talk and so

[gold-pavilion]

A list of things I can now infer properly about Ivan's Nowhere!!

Now that the song is officially out and a bit of context about it was posted on Alien Stage's official page, here's some collected thoughts and things:

+ We now know this was recorded at some point in Ivan's time in Anakt Garden, which makes it his earliest song. Stating the obvious but good to have confirmation that this expression of his feelings came way before what he wrote in Black Sorrow.

+ Ivan did compose and write for himself independently, which he previously wasn't shown to be inclined to, so it's nice to know too.

+ Being a private song that he did intend to keep that way (as he hid or discarded the CD), it makes sense that Nowhere is much more openly emotional, vulnerable and defeatist than the latter Black Sorrow, which was made with public performance in mind.

+ Ivan has always been cagey about his feelings, but knowing the context of Nowhere (personal, private, done without outside input), it turns out it IS the raw contrast between his feelings of love and the impression that he's unlovable/only knows how to love wrongly anyway/destined to be unwanted (what he started with at the intro vs what he went with for the rest).

+ My doubts about some of the self-deprecating parts are now cleared up!! 

I was wondering if the bits about his "disgusting teeth" and "cruel lips" were a general expression of guilt for selfishly kissing Till in Cure, but having a timeframe for when he wrote this song, it seems more likely that Ivan wrote that over the guilt of WANTING to kiss Till in the first place. Might be related to the disgust Till showed him when first learning what kissing was; it would make sense that it resulted in Ivan feeling twisted/guilty.

I think those are all my first realizations / impressions. Gonna write a proper, larger interpretation piece on this song and contrast between Ivan's emotional state here vs Black Sorrow later!!

[kiryuing]

[stealingpotatoes]

with how much time my cat spends in his litter box (and how loud that time is), i can only assume he has the greatest litter zen garden in the lands

[butchfalin]

the funniest meltdown ive ever had was in college when i got so overstimulated that i could Not speak, including over text. one of my friends was trying to talk me through it but i was solely using emojis because they were easier than trying to come up with words so he started using primarily emojis as well just to make things feel balanced. this was not the Most effective strategy... until. he tried to ask me "you okay?" but the way he chose to do that was by sending "👉🏼👌🏼❓" and i was so shocked by suddenly being asked if i was dtf that i was like WHAT???? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME?????????? and thus was verbal again

[miss-anaa]

[puppppppppy]

Bridge to turnabout doodles

[inkskinned]

i keep thinking about how rfk said that autistic people "will never write a poem." i keep thinking about that, about if humanity is calculated on the back of old verse. how far we measure personhood is in baseball and stanza breaks.

i keep thinking - i have over 7k poems on here alone. language can be a special interest, after all. did you know the word autism comes almost direct from the greek word autos, meaning "self"? self-ism.

maybe he is right - i haven't really played baseball. i was a ballet dancer instead. and besides - my sister once accidentally hit me in the face with an aluminum bat. i'm not sure if the injury gives me half points. am i only a person in the dugout? hand in a mitt? swinging?

does softball count? does cricket? am i a person if i throw the ball to my dog. am i a person as long as the ball is in the air, or do i stop being a person as it rolls into the bushes. i took my girlfriend to fenway recently; was i a person in the sun, with my hands up, with the game laid out at my feet in a diamond. i felt like a person, but that was back in the summer, and i often feel my most person-like then.

am i more of a person because of the sheer number of things i've written? does quality matter, or is it quantity? i used to write entire books every summer in high school - i wasn't doing well. i felt the least like-a-person back then. but then - does any person feel human in high school?

in the library, ink on my skin, i feel personhood shutter at the edges of myself. actually, writing feels blissfully like not being myself. it feels birdlike; escaping into creation so my body dissolves and i survive only by muscle memory. i am not there, i am writing.

but who can deny the falconlike focus of warsan shire, the tenderness of mary oliver, the sheer skill of amanda gorman. those are poets. they are certainly human. you could line them up with the way their words have influenced us and measure their literary shadows like wings.

perhaps it was very assumptive of me to want to be a poet rather than "a [ label ] poet." i wanted the work to fill itself in, rather than be stained by what i am. i do not write in despite of my neurodivergence, i am just neurodivergent and writing.

does the poem have to be in english or can i send it through my palms into the coat of my dog. does the poem have to make sense. does the poem have to love you back.

if i break a glass, will the poem appear naturally? or is the act of breaking the glass human-enough. the shards of my life glittering out beneath me - do i have to write the poem, or is it self-evident in the pile of glass splinters? i cannot grasp this world the way other people can. regardless, i endeavor to touch - even the mess - very gently.

i broke my toenail against my coffee table recently. i released a bug outdoors. i made coffee. i walked my dog.

i didn't write a poem about any of these things.

something else, then. existing without humanity.

[elucubrare]

there's this horrible school of attempted literary criticism on here that holds that 1. everything in any given author's work is autobiographical, especially if it seems "real" and 2. those themes seeped into the work subconsciously, revealing something about the author that they're either trying to hide or unaware of themself. it drives me up a wall, since it seems to deny the fundamental skills that make people good writers: the empathy to imagine and portray experiences that one hasn't had oneself and the ability to take one's personal emotional experiences or worldview and fold them, consciously, into the unworked clay of a narrative.

[strifetxt]

here's something silly that i haven't seen anyone point out: y'know this section of grian's world tour? the bit where he gives himself a tour of the permit office and puts himself on hold?

so like, how did he do this exactly? it's clearly not just a cam account, since it's recorded from the pov of a player in survival mode, and it'd be pretty bonkers for him to be controlling two minecraft accounts at the exact same time.

as you can see by the icon in the corner, the pov grian stays muted during this whole segment, so the pretty clear conclusion is that grian got a different hermit to put on his skin and record their own pov, and then got them to send him their footage.

but which hermit did he get to be his body double? to solve that mystery, we can use this brief moment from the beginning of the segment where we see the pov grian's inventory.

weirdly, this person has a bunch of netherite tools in their hotbar, but also a full set of diamond tools in their inventory. what's funny is that if you look at the clip immediately following this segment of the tour, after we return to the actual grian's pov, the contents of the hotbar match up.

so clearly what happened is that grian tossed the body double hermit his own tools/the contents of his hotbar to keep up the verisimilitude. which is kind of adorable.

anyhow, back to the body double's inventory. the other notable thing, and the most identifying feature there, is that we can see a set of diamond armor trimmed with lapis! and who wears lapis-trimmed diamond armor, uses diamond tools as opposed to netherite, and also happened to be the very next person in the video to do their base tour?

[morganbritton132]

Robin fully thinks that Dustin is a dog that was sent to obedience school and not a human child that went to summer camp because Steve talks about him like:

Steve, sighing wistfully: I just miss the little guy, you know?

Robin: ?

Steve, right after servicing ice cream to a guy: That’s my mailman. Dustin fuckin’ hates that guy. Goes crazy when he sees him.

Steve: *does not elaborate on Dustin’s long standing feud with the postal service*

Steve: My parents are actually kinda happy that’s he’s gone. They think he’s loud.

Robin, thinking of her neighbor’s dog: Yeah, they’re like that.

Steve: And the jumping, they hate that.

Steve: - bunch of chocolate. Got an upset stomach and threw up.

Robin: They can’t have chocolate.

Steve: Yeah, I know. He’ll throw up!

Steve: Dustin’s coming back next week. I think I’m going to get him a welcome back gift. Got any ideas?

Robin: Something that squeaks?

Boy, walking up to the counter: Hi

Robin: Hi

Boy: I’m Dustin

Robin, internally: *no one can ever know any of my thoughts ever*

[crumb-crumblet-s-crumbington]

i liked repairing space bridges

[gold-pavilion]

Nowhere, Black Sorrow and an interpretation of Ivan's love

Gonna talk a bit about Ivan's emotional state in Nowhere and how it… is mostly right there in Black Sorrow too, just in a slightly more matured manner. I've got some similarities and differences I wanna highlight!

(It'd be good to read my lil initial impressions on the release of Nowhere first, tho!)

Firstly, the key thing about interpreting the content of Nowhere is that it's a private song. Written for Ivan himself, composed with no outside input, never meant for public performance. Therefore, in it, we can trust that Ivan is expressing himself as freely as he can (through the lens of his stunted emotional development yet strong ability to look inward and rationalize, but still), which is a very rare occurrence, given that one of his biggest traits is being private and cagey. The song Nowhere is raw emotion for a change, an open display of his head and heart.

And it sounds like just that. We hear the result of Ivan trying a romantic, ballad-like love song, starting with that and presumably just scrapping it for the subsequent melodic, hopeless freestyle rap session about his loneliness, pain, sense of being fundamentally unlovable/unwanted, belief that his existence is devoid of value and his pessimism.

But the love he knows he feels for Till IS there, fantastically represented by the ballad-like part that stays in the background for the rest of Nowhere. And it's recognized for what it is. 

… which is a big deal in itself!! Ivan talks down on his capacity for love a lot and would later call it a "shallow emotion", but he's way too analytical and knows himself too well to be avoiding that love is what it is. He damn well knows he's in love. And this song, the earliest song in his musical timeline, is pretty much the only place he says it out loud. 

Followed, of course, by all those verses about his meaningless and inconsequential life, being overwhelmed yet persisting calmly/numbly, the light he can't look at and dreams/hopes that are unreachable from the beginning because everything (and himself) is stained. And yet, the recognition of his emotions stays running in the background; to be literal about it, his feeling of love stays present and sung no matter how deep he dives into his bleak outlook. Constant, steady, never drowned out. Two things that are truths to Ivan. It feels to me like precisely the two factors that govern his inner emotional life: the belief that he's not built for it and the knowledge that he loves, regardless.

And "this always happens to me" is the sentiment that results from all that, taking the spotlight as the general mood and baseline of Nowhere. 

His belief that that the boy he was in the slums - a human who didn't feel like he belonged anywhere, neither an equal existence in relation to the segyein nor feeling part of humanity, a type of existence that's stained and rejected - is the same person he is in Anakt Garden and the ame persona he will continue to be. Of course, that applies to his love too. Not gonna work out because that's just how it is for someone like him, another piece of the "this always happens to me", destined to be unwanted. 

(We've gotta remember that Nowhere was written at the time he was living in Anakt Garden [source: official post], the time where he developed his feelings for Till and tried to be close to him in ways that neither Till nor Ivan himself could understand properly - so, is it surprising at all that he'd continue to feel mismatched with other humans, stained, wrong and hopeless? My personal belief here is that what he experiences with Till echoes with what he experienced in the slums, all contributing to sustain his view and thoughts about himself as an individual. It's all the same. Again: this always happens to him.)

Now here's the thing: that defeatist attitude about loving Till is honestly the same one he carries over to Black Sorrow and is guided by throughout all of the main Alien Stage storyline.

Another thing that's very important to remember in regards to THAT is that Ivan never told Till how he felt in any type of way, he also didn't intend to show it or let it be known in way Till could interpret, understand and give an answer to [source: Vivimeng Q&A at the 2024 GAF event of which we only have attendee records]. He mostly fought, made up, played and spent time with Till. The most straightforward example of "acting upon his feelings" we could refer to is when he asked Till if he wanted to kiss [source: official comic], which was absolutely not framed as a confession of romantic inclinations, but just as "something some kids in Anakt are doing". It was neither expressed nor understood for its true human meaning. Ivan never says anything because he has simply assumed that he's unlovable, considers himself rejected by default (he's aware Till likes Mizi, but it's been made clear that this is mostly irrelevant to him, Till could love anybody or no one at all and he'd still have his pessimistic outlook because he considers himself the problem [source: GAF event Q&A again]) and leaves it at that. Around the segyein, he even goes out of his way to protect either Till, the privacy of his own feelings or the nature of love (as one of the few freedoms pet-humans have) by giving the impression that they're not that close and Till is not that important to him [source: Ivan interview from the Alien Stage Patreon, specifically these bits].

With that said, let's recall Black Sorrow.

It's inevitably different because it's not the raw and fully honest Ivan, but a song meant for performing, for an audience and for the competition. Still, it's his character introduction song and it's the one that tells us his viewpoint on Till. And in it, his definition of love is already, well, that it's "his black sorrow". A feeling surrounded by darkness, love for someone unreachable, the knowledge that it ends in a "cold spot stained with blood", not meant to work out for him in any way. Just as he thought at the time of Nowhere. 

Because that always happens to him. He thinks that way in Black Sorrow, he thought that way in Nowhere, he still thinks that way in Cure.

But there's one thing that's extremely different between Black Sorrow and Nowhere! And I think it's an important aspect of Ivan that the new song and the new opportunity for character analysis allow us to bring forward.

It's in this little moment, the prelude to the climax of Black Sorrow:

When the first point tally is coming, no matter when you pause the video, Ivan's points are gonna be the same as Marty's. Unlike in Blink Gone, with Luka shown to be leading and Till falling in second place, Ivan and Marty don't know how it's going. But they'll get their final count soon, so this is the point where things need to get real serious. And it's the point when – as he watches the set's falling stars – Ivan dives into his most painful but also very important memory with Till. Through which we reach the song's climax, his performance turns much more emotional and he ultimately crushes Marty's score by a great margin.

What I'm trying to say is: in Black Sorrow, Ivan is in a very similar place as he was in Nowhere, in regards to his emotions and his love. We can assume he's more accustomed to it. But most of all, he's purposefully tapping into his feelings (both his love and his pain), drawing strength from them to deliver a winning performance. It's like opening his chest up and reaching into his heart, yes, but it's also done in a very controlled manner, because as soon as he's able, Ivan composes himself. When he finishes performing, he's his usual calm self again. 

(Writing this I realize I'll need another post to dive deeper into Black Sorrow alone to cover some more points that are unique to the song, so I'll leave that for later.)

And that's the aspect of his character that I think is so important to highlight, the fact that he just… know himself so well. And how, despite viewing himself negatively in some ways, he also greatly accepts himself.

Nowhere is a very downbeat song, of course we're all face down in puddles of tears for Ivan, but him? I think it'd be… in a way, misjudging and underestimating him to settle on a very depressive or fully self-loathing view of him. Because he's pessimistic, but in a rational, "that's exactly how things are" kinda way. He looks down on what he considers his bad sides, but also keeps them close and doesn't hesitate to use all of his skills and traits. He's hurting, but he remains collected and undefeated by his various pains. He's emotionally vulnerable but also SO full of sentiment, determined, clever, capable of great acts of gentleness and dedicated as few will ever be. 

And, when it comes to his love for Till, his belief that it's doomed to be unrequited doesn't stop him from continuing to feel that way, continuing to look after Till, drawing strength from his love when needed and ultimately do what must be done to push for Till's victory in Cure.

That's all for now! Please remember that these are only my views and that for this piece I focused on interpreting Ivan's love in particular in the context of Nowhere tied to Black Sorrow, so other themes are not as covered (not because they're not important in Nowhere or his whole character, of course) and even most of the nature of that same love is also not covered. I'll continue to write more analysis posts if possible.

I hope it's been an interesting read!

[whenthewallfell]

~ I guess that this must be the place ~

[egophiliac]

don't think I'm not still obsessing over 7-12

[marzipanandminutiae]

what's with the weird glorification of smoking that's come back lately

like

I've seen so many posts that paint opposing smoking as some impossibly Loser-ish or puritanical stance and I really don't get it

it makes you, your house, and your clothing stink, destroys your teeth, and gives you lung cancer. opposing it is. Correct. obviously addiction is very complicated and quitting can be hard, but just saying "smoking is gross and harmful as a practice (including vaping)" is True and Right actually

some of you have never grown up hearing about how some beloved family member died a slow, agonized, wasting death of smoking-induced cancer, or watching it firsthand for yourself, and it shows

[frownyalfred]

but yeah in the same vein of Bruce’s kids only following his orders in the field…of course they do. in Gotham, if you don’t hit the deck when Bruce says “Down!” you’re getting hurt, at bare minimum. there’s no questioning orders or hesitating. you have to trust that when B tells you to do something, it’s in your best interest, or in the best interest of the civilians, to do it — and do it really fucking well. really fucking fast.

that doesn’t mean the JL give orders in the same way, even though they’re well-intentioned. that doesn’t mean they fully grasp an emergency scene or its civilians’ needs. they might not realize how risky an order they, as a meta, give to a fully human vigilante is. they’re not a tactician the way Bruce is — they’re not thinking in plans, and backup plans, and fallback plans and extractions.

so yeah, Dick doesn’t take direct orders from anyone but B. of course he doesn’t.