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forbiddentaako · 1 month

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Hi, sorry for bothering you and feel completely free not to answer this if you don't want to or aren't interested in it anymore, but I just really like your Devil's Carnival AU and I'd love to know more about it so dropping some questions here 👀 sorry if they're too many!

1. How do you imagine Charlie's and Vaggie's relationship developing? They obviously meet in "After the fall", right after Vaggie's fall from grace, but when did they start dating? How did it happen? Since in canon one of the things Vaggie loves about Charlie is her kindness and compassion towards sinners, how does that translate into this AU, where Charlie is less sunshine-y?

2. Does your idea involve Lute being more like Cora or like the Agent? With this I mean whether she has feelings for Vaggie which she hides because they're "inappropriate and illegal" or if she's courting Vaggie because Adam asked her to as a way to expose Vaggie while she's internally praying for her not to do something stupid and prove Adam right. I think you kind of explained it already in your other post but I didn't fully get it 🥲

3. Slightly related to the previous one but how does Vaggie fall? Is it for the same reasons as June?

4. Have you thought of roles for characters like Husk, Alastor or Niffty?

5. What do you think would happen in this AU in a hypothetical 3rd movie?

Your art style is so beautiful btw! You're such a talented artist :)

You are literally doing the opposite of bothering me don't worry I got so excited seeing this ask in my inbox you have no idea fsgsghskbds i have everything under read more bc it turned out long but thank you so much for the compliment on my art and also for this ask !!!

More or less vaggie and charlie getting together is closer to how it happened in hazbin hotel since i feel like part of it is the similarities of vaggie meeting charlie immediately after her fall and charlie still being kind and helping her which is the start of their connection, and overtime they grow closer and end up falling in love. I do like to think it did take them a while to get together but it was over the course of getting to know one another and their passions/dreams/ect that they began to truly understand who the other was and fall for them.

A little side note off of that which is relevant to understanding a less sunshiny charlie and how it translates to chaggie; with this particular role for charlie it has her mirroring aspects of both of her parents by design, but her character motivations are still very rooted in the fact that she is kind and believes in the good of sinners, heaven has just pushed her too far. Like even tho she's technically fulfilling lucifer's role from the devil's carnival, in doing so she's bearing more similarities to lilith's role in hell in hazbin in that she empowers sinners with her voice (in this case particularly any who've fallen from heaven since it seems like in the devil's carnival this was an occurrence that happened multiple times). And that kind of motivates her disdain for heaven to see how easily they cast out those who don't live up to their standards + with the obvious hypocrisy in how adam acts it makes her more disillusioned with the whole system altogether that heaven stands for and perpetuates (like lucifer hazbin hotel), which is what results in her saying 'fuck it' and just send sinners up there.

originally i was thinking the first movie didn't quite fit for charlie in lucifer's role because it does seem kind of cruel the way the sinners are tormented and it felt like it deviated from charlie's character, but i changed my mind after seeing the second bc i think it could read as a misguided attempt at redemption playing by heaven's rules of shunning what's perceived as sin (which we do see charlie try to do in the actual show) rather than her more trust exercises/team building route she goes for in hazbin. Like for charlie i think she'd genuinely think she's helping to try and get each of them to realize what sin they've committed for redemption's sake but hits her breaking point with heaven by the end. Probably from a mix of not fully believing some of the sins committed warrant eternal damnation (I feel like angel in particular with this one is especially sad because its unclear whether or not tamara ever does get sent to heaven/redeemed?) and being pissed at how hypocritical adam is by engaging in the same sins he's damning people to hell for. Charlie sending trains of sinners up isnt just a passive aggressive thing to do to heaven to shun her role as their torturer but also a statement that sinners and winners are one in the same-like she's completely giving up on trying for redemption within heaven's rules and just showing them that if they continue with this hypocrisy and cruelty, redemption is unnecessary bc these sinners fit right in as flawed as they are. I think this would also make Adam's damage control before 'bells of black sunday' especially insulting to charlie as well.

And vaggie sees that compassion in charlie when they first meet and she is kind to her in her lowest point, but realizes how much deeper it goes the more they get to know one another. In this AU also charlie knew from the beginning that vaggie was a former exorcist, but finding out why she fell was probably something that happened later on. (I do think the idea of them first starting to spend more time together by reading Aesop's fables to one another would be really cute too, like charlie likely reads stories to most new sinners to help with the transition to hell but vaggie shows so much genuine interest that it becomes a routine for them)

(Another side note; I think a scene in the actual film which supports a well intentioned charlie and works well for her character is the one with the devil and the ticket keeper towards the end of the second movie when the ticket keeper confronts lucifer about his plan. Like its vox yelling at charlie that heaven will try to fuck them up because of what she's doing, and him saying that he is the one who'll be standing on the tracks to push her out of the way, but charlie getting angry at this and saying she would never let him do that and that she will be on the tracks with him, and then she tells him her plan finally. I think this scene works well because it not only shows charlie's devotion to her ideas and to those she cares about, but also the disconnect between her intentions and her actions that could allow for the first movie's plot of torturing sinners to be born out of a want to help them. Because in this case she does have a well thought out plan and everything is done with intent, but vaggie is the only one who really knows this so to vox it seems like shes being reckless and impulsive due to how she's been acting, and heaven also isn't really understanding the message in the way she wanted.)

With Lute and vaggie i think i have a clearer idea of what's going on now than when i first made the post in summary because i think lutes role is dependent on if we're talking in the plot or if we're talking in relation to vaggie. I think adam probably still wanted her to get closer to Vaggie and prove she wasn't worthy of heaven/it was a test of loyalty for lute to betray her but the feelings between them that developed were ones that Lute definitely deemed to be 'inappropriate and illegal'. I think they probably could have had their romantic moments between them still in secret but after getting found out and confronted by the watchword Lute realized because she had fallen for vaggie she was resigned to letting vaggie fall so she wouldn't have to deal with the fact that she loved her or get caught having a secret relationship with her. Like externally they present similarly to the agent and june with their respective roles in the narrative, but in terms of who they are to one another it's was closer to what cora and june had going on.

With their plot as well I feel like some of the heaven caste system needs to be examined/adjusted so it better fits them, but I haven't had the time to dig into it as it exists in the film enough that I feel comfortable deconstructing and reconstructing it just yet. Definitely working on it though !

And going off of this I think when vaggie fell Lute took the opportunity to make it look like she had acted calculated and callously this whole time as to maintain adam's respect as well as prove her loyalty, when in reality that was very much not the case and she did really care for vaggie at one point but forced herself to hate her because of what loving her would mean. I also think vaggie's fall would be something tied to kindness rather than ambition because it follows more closely to what happened in hazbin and also would probably endear her to charlie more when she finds out (and make her angrier at heaven), but Im also not 100% sure what that would look like in terms of how it plays out in the film.

So I have thought a bit of nifty/alastor/husk though they are more unsure in who they'd be. I am kind of stuck on the idea of Alastor as the publicist in his more positive sense because I think it fits and i think it'd be cool to incorporate more physical radio aspects into his design in the same way that the publicist has the horn attached at his ear (plus mimzy can be there too as one of the songbirds). I do also like the idea of him playing the role of the watchword to some extent (just keeping it solely to radio) bc he loves drama. Partly because I think it fits to let him be in heaven but still be an absolute menace to the general public, and partly because i think its funny to keep Al and Vox separated like toddlers who will start a fight with one another if left alone for too long. I had thought about having vox as the watchword and alastor as the publicist, but I kind of like the 'charlie works with the vees' plot a bit too much to separate vox from them. With Husk and Niffty I go back and forth on who they'd play, partly bc when i was originally brainstorming this au with a friend we thought husk could be the hobo clown but that was also when we were thinking Alastor as Lucifer's role instead of charlie (and this was before I had watched the second movie so the cast overall was very different) so im not entirely sure. If we're going with carnie roles for them i think husk as the hobo clown or the magician i can live with and niffty as one of the bayonets maybe. But having Alastor in heaven kind of throws off the dynamic so im unsure fully where to put them.

The idea of what would happen in a third movie is SO INTERESTING and I hadn't even thought about it. I think part of this AU deviates from the movie to be more chaggie focussed so I imagine a third movie could focus more on their relationship as well, maybe even delving into them bonding over their shared plan to overthrow heaven and we'd get to see that development of the plan/their relationship in the flashbacks with the present being them actually enacting their plan. Like they are a power couple and share each other's passion, and theyre really the only 2 who actually know what the plan is. I think by this point vox would have been told the plan by charlie in the previous movie so he would have to also help get the carnies organized and on board. There'd also have to be some scenes in heaven with Adam losing it as his control of heaven falters, plus finding out whats going on with the sinners sent to heaven. Really theres just a ton of possibilities since the actual third movie was never made.

#This whole AU kind of started because I was listening to 'grace for sale' and was like 'There has got to be a way this works with hazbin'#and that spiralled into talking with a friend about it until we figured bits and pieces out #and then I watched the second movie and at that point was like 'ok wait hold on a second-'#and then it was just an excuse to redraw screenshots from the movie since im obsessed with the way they do lighting #but it spiralled into a full blown au bc i have brainrot #and I will forever be tweaking it and analyzing it now bc its so fun and the more i talk to others about it the more developed it gets #its lasting as long as this special interest lasts which based on my track record will be comically long #also tumblr user chaggiehearts i hope you know i read and cherish all of the tags you put on the art when you reblogged it and part of this #ask was easy to answer bc i had already typed up some of the responses to what you put in the tags to message you about acuacjcfj #so if you'd ever want to discuss more my DMs are always open asfjidcfjn #the devils carnival au #the devils carnival #hazbin hotel #chaggie #fallenwings

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