#we are anti endo but harassment is not the way to go about anything

[sophieinwonderland]

An Endogenic Response to a Message Towards Endogenic Systems

Trigger Warning: Death Threats, Harassment, Cyberbullying, Ableism, Slurs, Hate Groups

@loafofcatbread

Aren't you one of the moderators of Aspen's server? You are, right?

You all specifically came onto this website to spread hate. Aspen said she wants to normalize cyberbullying endogenic systems. And you're using our tags to post hateful messages to our community because you want to hurt us. That's your intent in being here. Causing pain and suffering to other people for existing.

Why deny it and try to play victim?

Amazing how you accuse us of sending slurs and death threats while Aspen is calling us "Schizo." Specifically while bragging about using it as a slur.

And... you know we can see your reblogs, right Loaf???

And for death threats... we can also see YOUR LIKES!

Yes! We see you, Loaf! Just like we see Aspen!

We see your hypocrisy. We see your bullying. And we aren't going to tolerate it.

I don't know if any endogenic systems have been sending death threats or slurs in response to you all invading our spaces with the intent of hurting and bullying us. I haven't seen this happening, and I would strongly discourage anyone from stooping to your level.

But I DO know what you all have been doing.

You and your disgusting pals aren't allowed to play victim here! Sorry.

And for your talk of misinformation, I've yet to see anything even resembling a source for the claims your side have made. Anti-endos love to assert thing. They like to say whatever nonsense they can come up with as if it's a fact and then expect people just accept it.

But they can't cite in professionals who can back them up because none exist.

And when pro-endos respond with sources, the modus operandi of you all have been to throw slurs and ad hominems as Aspen did when she was sent a link to my post debunking her video.

Maybe you think you're educated because you got all your information of plurality from a popular Tiktoker with an inflated ego and no actual background in psychology or any sources to support her claims, but that's not education. That's indoctrination.

You and your hive have been indoctrinated.

Finally, over the years, I've seen countless traumagenic systems be attacked, bullied and fakeclaimed for being pro-endo, mixed origin or presenting in ways anti-endos deem unusual. And anti-endos, by their nature, encourage fakeclaiming. They encourage invalidating systems. And this has increased stigma of traumagenic systems, normalizing hate against systems of all types.

You are NOT an ally to traumagenic systems.

You're an ally to a hate group.

And it's so sad that you can't even see it...

[horrorcrew-diary]

I just wanna throw my two cents out there as someone who is on the bigger end of the CDD community (I think? We have 100+ followers)

I'm punk. I'm a system. So why am I afraid to use the syspunk tags?

Our old host was pretty active and vocal in cpunk spaces because qi was tired of feeling silenced by doctors for having arthritis at a young age. Qi felt empowered and supported by a community that understood qis struggles. But with the way that things are going now, I cannot see myself active in syspunk spaces (or at least on tumblr. If there was a discord server, I might consider it.)

Punk is anti establishment. Punk is against the grain. Punk is being angry and fighting the system and taking no shit and advocating for the oppressed. But if there's going to be endos claiming refuge in the community that was SPECIFICALLY MADE TO COMBAT THEIR IDEOLOGY, I will not join. I do not want to subject me OR my system to harassment from endos and their supporters.

If you're somehow an endo that I don't have blocked, here's the thing:

You make me feel unsafe. Actively.

I have suffered immesurable trauma and abuse of all kinds. I feel as though endos are appropriating my struggles to seem quirky or relatable. Being abused since infancy is not a quirky personality trait. It robbed us of our formative developmental years, and now I have a disorder that makes the average mentally healthy person shudder.

There is a very large overlap between cpunk and syspunk I think. Fighting for our voices to be heard and understood by medical professionals unites our causes. Endogenics are the antithesis of this movement, because, BY DEFINITION, they are NOT medical systems.

I have a medical disorder. Yes, I also see my alters as separate people and treat them as such, but that does not change the fact that we would not exist if it weren't for our trauma. Our trauma is intristictly woven into our very being. There is no Horror Crew without trauma. There is no ME without trauma. You cannot peel back that layer to find anything hiding underneath. It runs so deep that I'm not even sure what healing would even look like for us.

DID is an ugly disorder. It comes hand in hand with some of the most demonized symptoms in the entire DSM. Syspunk is beautiful because it allows us a space to openly talk about these symptoms and struggles without being silenced.

Or at least it would be in theory! Jesus fucking Christ. We're just as traumatized as fucking war veterans. Would you go to a veteran support group and ask for resources if you weren't one? No. You'd be turned down and told to fuck off. So do it. Fuck off.

[antiendovents]

we recently made a system blog and are so nervous!!! like i keep seeing endos go to anti-endos on here (like the one pro-endo sys who sent an anti-endo an entire essay about how they almost caused their friends suicide??? what on earth??) and start harassing them so im like half scared of us being so open about us not supporting them DX

(also, if it isnt taken, could our system signoff be 🎮 with my alter signoff being 🪐?)

don't worry too much! As far as we've experienced as long as you block them it should be fine ((you can block anons btw! Just click the three dots and click "block anonymous" and they won't be able to send anything on anon anymore, so that way if they send another ask you can block their real blog too))! It's your blog though! Do whatever you want, you don't have to be open about being anti endo, you dont have to say your stance if you don't want to, just do whatever makes you comfortable

And yeah sure!

[theswiftheartsystem]

(New!) The Swift Heart System Introduction💙

cw: syscourse, and general discourse.

Basic Information:

Collective Name: Refer to us as Swift Heart if not sure!

Collective Pronouns: They/Them, or Ask!

Collective Gender: Pangender, GenderFluid, and genders along that spectrum are all okay with us 👍

We are white, afab and American, keep in mind our perspective is based around our personal experience, and what we have learned about.

Alter Count at the moment: Around 400, but we are aware it’s more, we don’t really care much about alter count all things considered lol.

Host: As of now, none! Even when we have one it isn’t very long!

Origin: Traumagenic

Disorders that we have: DID (what this blog is mainly about), BPD, Autism, C-PTSD, GAD, and possibly OCD (although we would lie to discuss it with a therapist/psychiatrist beforehand for personal comfort!)

Extra: We are Pro-Endo!!!! Although we cannot stop you from interacting if you are anti-endo, We kindly request you please just block us and move on if you have a problem with that.

About Us:

Why are we pro-endo?: When we were first discovering our system we were desperate to be “real enough” and accepted. Although the first system we discussed plurality with was pro-endo, they left the internet shortly after we opened up, and this lead us to being around sysmeds. To prove ourselves we purposely forced ourselves to remember trauma which put us in a worse position mentally. It took a long time, but through working to accept ourselves, we realized how bigoted we were being, which lead us to question a lot of things, such as our beliefs on endogenic plurality. Although we have gone a long way, some of our alters do not agree with us because it got so drilled into our mind that “endogenic systems are somehow just traumagenic and don’t remember” (which is a incredibly misinformed and harmful.)

What do we plan to talk about on this blog?: Really whatever we feel like! We may talk about Syscourse, plural positivity, advice from personal experience, our trauma, special interests and hyperfixations, ect. If we want to talk about it we probably will. (Although we always try to put the proper trigger and content warnings, and if we miss one by accident please tell us so we can add it as soon as possible!)

How to contact us/ask us a question: DMs are normally open unless a situation is happening! Along with that, feel free to use the ask me anything button, comment section on posts, or reblogs!

Mistakes on post: If we make a mistake, please inform us! We are always open to editing post (and do quite a bit), and we aren’t perfect, and especially if we say something bigoted, please correct us we are always open to learning about these topics, and acknowledge that we are privileged in certain ways. We would rather delete a long post we worked hard on if it is harmful then keep it up and go “wellll- it doesn’t affect me personally”

What are we “Pro” on:

We are obviously pro-endo!

We are pro self help. Although we think therapy is beneficial in many ways, not everyone can get a good therapist, wether that’s for financial reasons, none near you, or ableism, racism, sexism, ect in the medical/mental health field. Also it can benefit everyone to learn new coping mechanisms! (Please see a doctor if you are ill! You can only help yourself so much! We do not condone refusing to see doctors when you need to!!!

We are pro self diagnosing! (Just please do proper research before so, and even if it turns out you where wrong, you aren’t faking unless you actively attempt to fake.)

We are pro neopronouns and xenogenders!

People with villainized disabilities and/or mental disorders!

What are we “anti” on:

The trans-Id community. We don’t talk about this on this blog due to a lot of these people in this community being children, although we think what they are doing is dangerous and harmful, We would rather not direct harassment towards children. That being said, please do not harass anyone. (Also wanting to add, we are not anti-BIID, BIID is a completely separate thing.)

Bigotry.

”Narcissistic/Borderline/ect abuse” People with personality disorders can be abusive like anyone else can, but the idea of “[PD] abuse” is just to villainies those with Personality Disorders. This stops making sense when you change the disorder. (Example: “Post-Traumatic abuse” this sounds over the top, but we have legitimately seen someone say this.)

Ending:

Thanks for reading! Have a nice day, and remember you are doing great.

[pro-anomalocaris]

Pinned Post Time

He/him Seth or Set or Setka or Jean-Set. I have a lot of nicknames ADHD haver/survivor (depending on your POV) Over 18 Jewish (Bukharan) Linguistics + Religious Studies double major, on accident In order to answer the "are you white or not" question we need to discuss the construct of whiteness as it applies to Central Asia in your country of origin and frankly neither of us has time for that.

Fandom stuff would normally go here but I bounce from fandom to fandom. I don't believe in shipping only one thing and I think calling yourself "a Zutara" or "a Reyfinn" or whatever is ridiculous. It's internet Barbies, not a religion. It's not that serious.

DNIs get ignored but for the record, I'm pro-MOGAI, pro-endo, pro-trans, pro-intersex rights, pro-self diagnosis (even if you don't get it right, turning to your provider and going 'I have the following symptoms' is useful), pro-whatever group of lesbians is getting dragged on tumblr today be they split attraction model users or ace or bi lesbians or what have you, radical inclusionist, anti intersexism and medical abuse, anti biological essentialism, you don't need dysphoria to be trans, respectability politics are worthless, men aren't inherently evil actually, pro-interracial couples because no matter what antis say people are equals actually, and pro-kink.

If you think legal = moral and illegal = immoral, you are wrong. There are four states in the US where you can marry a minor at any age as an adult and have sex with them. That is legal. That is immoral. There are many countries where being queer is illegal. It is illegal and moral. Appeal To Legality is a logical fallacy that refuses to acknowledge anything could be wrong in the legal system. I should not have to explain to you why that's an incorrect statement.

Black Lives Matter. Stop Asian Hate. Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women deserves more attention than we're giving them. ACAB. Never Again Is Right Now. Hamas is a terrorist organization and Palestine deserves to be free from them as much as it deserves to be independent, and if you excuse Hamas committing rape, child rape, and murder, you are not pro-Palestine, because Palestinians have condemned those acts and frankly, everyone should.

Death threats, rape threats and suicide bait are always bad. They further drive people into extremism when you do it to extremists, they harm people in any scenario, and they reveal to me that you never wanted to be a good person, you just wanted to be cruel in a way that you can excuse as being 'good'. You're not good. A good person does not do these things.

If your discussions around mental health involve demonizing people who are low/no empathy or treating people with psychosis as evil, please know you are displaying no empathy and being evil. And I find that genuinely sad, but I am also going to block you.

Sometimes I'm ignoring you. Sometimes tumblr genuinely eats asks. I have asks on my main that have been there, hovering, invisible, for a year. I don't know why. But also sometimes ADHD kicks in and I mean to reply and for that, I apologize.

If you start a conversation, you do not get to cry about people replying to what you posted publicly where anyone could reblog and reply. Pretending people are "harassing" you for replying is either an attempt at using language to manipulate the situation or a sign that you are highly immature even for a minor.

If you use the "haha me no read reading iz bad lmao" excuse, you have forfeited all right to being taken seriously, not just by adults, but by children. You are also going to be incredibly easy to manipulate by everyone around you due to your inability to read with comprehension. I pray no one uses this to abuse you, but I'm also going to block you, because frankly, I don't know how to help in this situation.

I have had an anti send me CSEM in the past to "punish" me for writing a romance between a 50 year old and a 56 year old. I reported them to the police. They are now serving 30 years for possession of CSEM and if you try anything similar, I have no problem doing the same to you. (If you're wondering why I don't believe antis when they say they're protecting kids, this is why.)

Depiction isn't synonymous with endorsement. Shipping isn't activism. Fandom isn't activism. One real person is worth the death of every blorbo you and I hold dear put together.

[mg-sytem]

We've been anxious to post about this but I'm going to try and keep this clear and avoid confusion. As a preface, please understand we've come to this decision for our own mental health and well-being.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but we removed the "anti-endo" label from our pinned Post and DNI.

We've done this because we really can't handle it. Not to say that we're "hiding" anything, but because our thoughts and opinions are so varying that we cannot boil it down to a firm "this or that" stance without compromising some part of our opinions.

And frankly, we're tired of justifying something that's more complicated than that. Is there things we absolutely do not agree with? Yes of course. And the fact that we are absolutely against all forms of bullying and harassment hasn't changed.

Our opinions do not change the fact that we can treat other individuals with human decency and respect. We can be civil, we can just block and move on if we see something we don't want to see or makes us uncomfortable.

We are not here to constantly advocate against endos or defend ourselves on this issue. We're just too exhausted and over it. We already have to advocate for ourselves IRL in regards to our queer identity and physical health. We are here to express ourselves as much as we can and enjoy our time here.

We will still take time to talk about system issues, but this topic will likely not be talked about much at all with exception of some topics (invading spaces one has been asked not to join, bullying..and these apply to anyone honestly, it happens in many communities).

I hope y'all understand. We just don't want to deal with THAT specific discourse more than absolutely necessary.

Please remember that not everyone effected by a disorder or everyone a part of a minority group has the energy and capacity to constantly speak up.

We're trying to get the MASSIVE amounts of discourse off of our feed, which is another reason engaging in this stuff is damaging us.

At the end of the day, we genuinely hope people can remember that we're all people, and some basic respect can go a long way, even if not everyone will take that respect openly and reciprocate. If anyone has any questions feel free to send them, just please do so in good faith/in a genuine manner.

(and we don't feel comfortable even using a term like "Endo-neutral", we just don't feel a label is necessary or good for us at all)

- co-host

[anti-endo-safe-space]

Endos really see things like "anti endo" and "endos dni" and instantly think "this person is claiming I'm fake and being awful and terrible and bigoted."

Like ok. Yeah. Whatever. I don't even have the energy to give a "bare minimum benefit of the doubt" to some of the endos that aren't total pieces of shit. They'll see anything anti endos do as aggressive harassment.

If anti endos truly were bigots then uh, I've not seen any minority purposefully go into the tags of bigots and argue with them or steal tags from them or anything like that. Most people say to block and sometimes report. Like what anti endos largely say to do.

Endos really see any system being anti endo leaning or have "endos dni" and assume it means it's the worst possible fakeclaiming asshole that is out to hurt others and harass them. When. I dunno. I've seen like 3-5 endo accounts I felt the need to block cause they were far more aggressive or really actually gatekeepy about stuff, I barely even remember how bad they were if I'm honest. I've really blocked far more endos than anything esp for invading tags. I see about 5ish accounts that invade tags, a lot more tag invaders being like aspen or a fan or whatever. Which. The anti endo community hates cause they're actually ableist and just harass people.

Endos really react with a defensive mindset at just merely seeing us. Seeing the way they invade systempunk because we wanted a punk tag for ourselves. Saw pluralpunk, made their own tag, tag gets invaded. Usually they justify it by "harassing back" but like. Anti endos just made it for themselves. Esp since a lot of us are punk. But it turned into a whole "fight" with anti endos just wanting their tags to not be invaded.

I'd say "make it make sense" about everything with endos, but I don't think it ever will. Even we have our own triggers with endos including aggressive/mean alters and persecutors that hate them and can be nasty. And we still...do our best to be fair towards the less awful side of endos esp since some or many may either be minors or a system in major denial or both. But god. Endos really get aggressive and defensive about not instantly being accepted. When most anti endos at this point don't even fucking care to argue over origins or non disordered plurality, they just want their own spaces cuz IF non disordered plurality existed, it's very fucking different and trauma survivors want their space for their experience.

Yeah. Maybe the trauma survivors, who already with a small space and constantly being treated like shit and even told by professionals that their disorder doesn't exist along with the history of endogenics and Empowered Multiplicity making everything harder for CDD systems, will want their own fucking space and not share with those that are fundamentally different from them. Like. Can't imagine why trauma survivors want a space to themselves. Almost like...trauma survivors deserve spaces and they're very important. Like. We're only one tumblr cause of needing a narc positive space. And then found ourselves in more spaces for disorders including system spaces. It's kind of actually important for anyone to have spaces where they can be safe in. Not constantly having to share it with people who are nothing like CDD systems.

Paragraph by paragraph!

We've honest to whatever you believe in SEEN people say that anti endo and endos dni for ANY reason is them saying they hope endos drop dead. Like no. We have anti endo and endos dni because they upset us, a fair amount have caused us paranoia or trauma, and just it's okay to not want them to interact with everything.

Yeah, yeah that's sadly true. We've ran across a fair amount of endos and trying to give them the bare minimum results in a ton of hell because even just an endo-neutral system going "hey endos please don't interact as this is about my trauma as a system" and start calling to boycott because that's "harassment".

We've seen some minorities do that but it's usually take the tags back (for example, we've seen a lot of pwNPD take anti NPD tags for themselves, but they tend to not argue unless they just make comments about "hey that's just not what NPD is please get your facts straight"). Exactly! So many say block, report, move on.

Yeah, a fair amount will say that juts because they want a system space to themselves for their trauma and to help them cope with everything. I have seen some anti endo accounts call for harassing and boycotting and shit (you can guess which ones, they tend to also try and tag steal which, I'm sorry but tag stealing isn't okay. Co-occupying is okay (like with the plural tag which we tend to use because from what we've seen, the coiner is okay with endos and traumagenics using) but don't steal) but we tend to see more from endos/pro endos (we aren't naming any because no one deserves that). Sadly a fair amount of anti-endos are pretty ableist themselves which is fucked up for trying to fight ableism.

That's exactly how we've wanted to phrase things. We've seen so many say "hey systempunk is made against us we need to steal it", you guys have pluralpunk. We haven't invaded (or SHOULDN'T) invade pluralpunk. It doesnt matter if your being harassed, harassing back solves nothing and only makes life more difficult. Yeah that's something we've sadly seen a lot of is a fight that shouldn't be one

Most things with endos we've found don't make sense. We've got some (as they phrase it) avenger alters who would like to go toe-to-toe with some endos for things they've said and done to us but we still don't. Because while we don't like the ones who take our disorder and try to make it all cutsie and fun (build-a-headmate blogs for example), a lot are minors or in major denial or both. When we first heard of systems, we didn't even know what endos were and thought we could be one because we were so heavily in denial. A lot of endos we've seen have equaled it to someone queer not being accepted when there's a difference between being queer and having a mental disorder. If we don't have an ask, we honestly forget about the point of arguing over origins because it takes a lot of time and effort. We've said it before we'll say it again, we wouldn't have ever created this if endos didn't try to steal system terms and tags, if they kept their part of the internet then this account wouldn't have ever existed.

We spent a little bit when trying to find a therapist testing the waters with claiming a friend who's a system was trying to find a therapist just to be told that CDD's are fake or some bs with that, it's not that bad to want a space to themselves. It's not wrong to want a space for the people who went through similar trauma and coped in a similar way, in this case being a system. People who claim not to be traumatized but be a system is so fundamentally differnet it makes sense why trauma surviors don't want space. We get that, we started in system spaces and now we've been looking down narc positive spaces because we need that safe space.

[moonpizzalol]

No anon because we don’t care.

If you’re going to hate on endogenic systems and their supporters, at least do it OUTSIDE the plural tags.

Plural tags are and always will be inclusive of all systems and plural beings.

And instead of spreading misinformation about endos, why don’t you, oh we don’t know, do some damn research?

Antis are in-fact ableist, they will bash and harass other trauma survivors whether or not they’re endogenic. They will call them/us delusional or a schizo when that’s not the case. Using those terms on people who aren’t, especially when you’re not those things, is incredibly ableist.

They doxx and threaten and send kys messages to other TRAUMA SURVIVORS, even if they’re traumagenic. All for being pro-endo.

No one is glorifying or romanticizing ANYTHING about CDDs, unless they’re a radqueer.

Being a system may not be fun at times, but you forget that some systems ARE genuinely happy. Even traumagenic ones. Suffering as a system is not a universal experience.

In fact we LOVE being a system. We’re mixed origins and self-dxed with a CDD after researching professional and scientific things along with going through others experiences and finding that we relate to them heavily.

Systems don’t always form from trauma.

Hope this helps 😘

-Z

This is literally the stupidest thing i have ever seen what kind of void do you need to have between your ears to think endo "systems" are in any way valid

Systems HAVE to form from trauma, thats an actual medical fact and to assume not js abelist

Im not a system but i do know some and yes, they are happy. But it is also something that they say is hard! And sucks a lot. To pretend to be one is disrespectful in so many ways lmao. And antis who harass people are dumb. And stupid. But the vast majority dont do that. But saying "hey, youre wrong" aint harassment.

to say systems can form without having trauma is medically wrong and discredits the suffering of real systems. And if you think you are an endo system, either get help for possible mental illnesses or take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what actions led to you pretending to be a system.

Cheers. Ima go eat.

[sophieinwonderland]

Is it even worth it to argue with these people? They take everything out of context, they view everything in the worst way possible, and they continue to invade our tags and tell us to die. It’s not fair. It feels like they’re immune to any good arguments we put forth because they’re always looking for the worst and are always acting badly about it all. Maybe we can show off their bad behavior and attempt to sway the fence sitters, but those people that we’re directly responding to aren’t going to listen. They make harassment sound like anything they don’t agree with or when someone tells them they’re wrong, which is frustrating to those of us who have actually experienced harassment. They say they wouldn’t have to resort to all this if we didn’t do it first. Sorry, I’m incredibly beaten down and disenfranchised about all of this. What makes it worth it for you? How do you keep your head high and keep going? I’m really at a loss here.

:(

A few years ago, SAS was trying to get me banned. 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we can show off their bad behavior and attempt to sway the fence sitters, but those people that we’re directly responding to aren’t going to listen.

Maybe they just won't listen... yet? I mean, a lot of these people coming into syscourse today are minors who are angry and still in abusive situations, and that's made it easy for these anti-endo influencers to manipulate and indoctrinate them.

Even if we don't convince them today, what about tomorrow? What about the next day? What about years from now when they break away from their current situation?

Even for the adults, many of the hard anti-endos on Tumblr from years ago have shifted towards more neutral stances.

A lot of what I do, I play to the crowd, to all the lurkers who are observing and aren't as invested. I do think that's best for my goals. But I'd like to think I might also plant some seeds of doubt that can grow in anti-endos over time.

[churchofnightmares]

Emoji Requests : Open

Discord Server : Not Available ; May make one if requested

Requests we will do

Certain fandom ones depending on how hard they are to draw, mildly nsfw ones ( Gore, things like that ), regular people, animals, wordmojis, ect

Please feel free to ask what fandoms we will and won't do

Requests we won't do

Fandoms we aren't in or don't know anything about, very nsfw emojis, endo things, things about war, ect...

Intro

Hi hi y'all, we're Church of Nightmares, a subsystem in [redacted], it's nice to meet all of y'all, I'm Roman and probably will post the most here, but other headmates may as well.

We're primarily an emoji blog, but we may post other content at times, like bpd things, system things, other random art posts? We get burnt out pretty easily so we may go weeks without posting anything at times but I assure you we're still here. Uh- for more information about us here's a few of our more likely members to post here

🦊 Roman - Sleep/Tired/(Ask for more) - Subsys host

We're all decently nice unless you're an asshole to us, uh- oh we're autistic and that does affect how we interact with people, we use tone tags not just for other's benefit but for out own, so if you're uncomfortable with them please let us know in advance so we won't use them.

We are bodily an adult so we may sometimes make posts that aren't ok for minors to see but we will always tag them so they can be avoided. Uh- few things about us- our collective pronouns are Ice/Fox, we are physically disabled.

Other then that hey! Nice to meet everyone, if anyone wants to ask anything / get to know us more feel free to reach out

╰➤ BYI

We are ANTI Endo, we do not support endos, tulpas, demos or anything like that, we will not go out of our way to harass you for it but would prefer you didn't interact with us

We have severe BPD, it majorly affects our interactions, anything we see as rejection ( IE:// Criticism, arguments, ect... ) please keep this in mind

Tone tags, we need them, not only in our messages but in people we interact with, it will cause issues or problems that frankly didn't need to happen

╰➤ DNI

Endos

Endo supporters / neutrals who are only neutral to avoid arguments

Under 17 IWC and don't directly interact with us

Anyone friends with a discord user named .thecrimsonfuckr immediately block us.

The normal assholes

People who support Israel and shit cause fuck that

User Box Credit : @sysboxes

[russian-piece-of-shit]

Hi, I'm a system and have mutliple other disorders. All "cis" if you will. I'm not here to shame anyone but I would genuinely like to know how this makes sense to you? I want to know your persepctive because I don't understand and maybe I can get some more insight from someone else. I feel invalidated when people talk about endogenic and "transsystems" because my disorder is not an aesthetic and I had to go through so much trauma that turned me into who I am today and not in a good way. It's painful and it hurts when I see people making fun of my experience by saying they've acquired their system "naturally" even though that's not how the disorder works (By "making fun of" I mean that's how it feels). It also feels transphobic to hijack trans wording such as "cis" and "trans" even though disorders are different to gender. Gender is a social construct and disorders are just not. They can't go away, they can't change. I can never get my childhood back and I struggle to be able to be myself with my Autism and ADHD, I find it hard to keep relationships from the immense anxiety I've gotten from my CPTSD symptoms and the chronic mistrust I've had to develop to survive. I guess I just want to ask why? Why you believe in these things? It's not that I hate you, I don't, I genuinely want to understand because currently I feel hurt, and upset, and made fun of in a way I've never felt before and I just want to know the logic and reasoning behind this kind of stuff before I make a judgement.

Sorry I couldn't respond sooner but heres my answer, please others correct me if im wrong on anything, we're also cisDID and cisAuDHD which has gone through a shit ton to be here yet even then we're okay with this.

First thing I'd like to talk on is how you believe that transplural or endogenic systems do it for an aesthetic which isn't at all healthy for this conversation if you want an explanation, we aren't at all transplural so we'll allow someone who is transplural to speak on that but we have endogenic members, they aren't an "aesthetic" we use to try and seem cooler or, whatever you think they exist for. Understanding that systems are complex is a fiest step, and each system *will* have a different experience, trying to fit each system in a box of a "perfect way to experience plurality" will never work nor does demanding that your perception of a real system is the "correct" way to be.

Second point is something I don't like explaining but cis and trans are prefixes anyone can use, trans means change, anyones allowed to use the prefix as long as it means the same thing. I do agree most disorders cannot go away nor be intentionally created but that shouldn't stop anyone. I can understand how you feel about your disorders, that's a normal way to feel but again, everyone has their own experiences and everyone has their own wants or dysphoria, I'm never going to fully understand everyones experiences nor am I going to even attempt to say I do and I'll never be able to tell whether or not someones "real".

No one, especially not me or you will know everyones experiences fully and I never want to deem someone elses experiences as invalid simply because I don't know how it works, systems again are complex, I barely know how mine works and I don't expect to know how anyone elses work. Saying that transplural or endogenic systems are invalid will fuel the idea that all systems need to fit into a box that might even exclude some cisplural traumagenic systems, and how far will that go to the point that system "safespaces" start becoming FDC? We used to be anti-endo, the normalization of harassing systems who don't fit into your "perfect" idea of one is a huge problem in the anti-endo system community already.

[xanders-syscourse]

(I HAVE DECIDED I'VE SPENT FAR TOO MUCH TIME THINKING ABOUT SYSCOURSE AND IF I'M GOING TO POST ABOUT IT, I MAY AS WELL DEDICATE A BLOG TO IT)

(MY NAME IS XANDER, I'M PLURAL WITH A SINGULAR HEADMATE BUT HE LIKELY WON'T BE INVOLVED IN THIS BLOG BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER BITCHES ABOUT SYSCOURSE) (DO NOT INVOLVE MY HEADMATE IN THIS BLOG, HE'S NOT A PART OF THIS) (PLEASE DO NOT SPECULATE ON IF I'M A "TRAUMAGENIC" OR A "SYSTEM" OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS AND I'LL BLOCK YOU IF YOU TRY TO ASSERT YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ME) (I DON'T IDENTIFY AS AN ENDO AND WOULD PREFER NOT TO BE REFERRED TO AS SUCH, THOUGH IT IS A DESCRIPTOR THAT WOULD FIT AND THAT'S WHY I HAVE A PERSONAL STAKE IN SYSCOURSE)

(ANYONE CAN *HYPOTHETICALLY* INTERACT WITH THIS BLOG FOR SYSCOURSING PURPOSES, THOUGH IF YOU CAN'T INTERACT IT'S BECAUSE I EXTENSIVELY BLOCK ANTI-ENDOS AND ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL WE HAVE ISSUES WITH) (IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO *HONESTLY* AND IN *GOOD FAITH* CONVERSE WITH ME THEN YOU CAN REQUEST TO BE UNBLOCKED, BUT YOU WILL BE BLOCKED AGAIN IF YOU ENGAGE IN HARASSMENT)

(I REALISE I'LL BE TAKEN LESS SERIOUSLY FOR USING MY TYPING QUIRK, BUT IT'S WHAT'S MOST COMFORTABLE FOR ME SO MAYBE I DON'T CARE) (YOU CAN ASK FOR PLAIN TEXT VERSIONS OF POSTS IF NECESSARY THOUGH)

(THAT'S IT) (THAT'S MY INTRODUCTION) (BY THE WAY, I'M PRO-ENDO IF IT WASN'T ABUNDANTLY CLEAR)

[anti-endo-safe-space]

Another thing we really hate about endos is how manipulative and guilt trippy they can be. We are very firm on endo apathetic to anti endo. And even if we are endo apathetic, it comes from us just being too damn tired to care. We are very disabled with a lot of real life problems and mostly comes down to us just wanting them out of our spaces.

But that aside. They're very guilt trippy and manipulative. And so whenever we make points, we start thinking of all the shit we've seen and read and just kinda lose that point as well. Cause it's very much a trigger for us and makes us feel gaslit (even if what they're doing isn't intentional like gaslighting.) It's still manipulative af. And it messes with our head which is why we avoid endos so much. Cause we are susceptible to that and it can go against our core beliefs or even our reality. Plus we have moral ocd so we start feeling like a monster for not supporting them.

I hate how it feels like we are essentially being manipulated and guilt tripped into supporting them rather than given ACTUAL REASONS to support them. It's just "don't be exclusionist" "don't police other people's lives" "you can't be this if you're a sysmed" and other bs like that. It messes with our head so bad. (We're alright and have good grounding methods, no real concern, just a frustration we wanted to rant about.)

It's so infuriating and I just hate how much they play on gaining sympathy and guilting others rather than doing anything else. For people who claim that we are like transmeds and they're like the poor innocent trans people (hate that shit so much, we are a system full of a lot of xenogender and mspec mono peeps so tbat comparison with "sysmed" is fucking insulting, genuinely), they sure do love to use guilt to "change our minds" rather than providing arguments. Like a lot of trans people can and will do to terfs. And even then, trans people don't go into terfs' tags to harass them or bombard them like endos tend to do. Cause real activism and fighting for acceptance isn't just discourse and bickering and guilt tripping.

I hate the comparison between endos and trans people and anti endos and sysmeds so much. What an insult. But that is a vent for another fucking day. I just hate how manipulative all of their arguments feel. And we've read a lot even when we WERE open to the idea of endogenic systems (back when we were a new system and didn't know everything) and it still A: didn't make sense to us B: seem like there was any actual evidence and C: still felt very manipulative and guilt trippy. And that was when we were actually OPEN to the idea of endos being real. Now we aren't and it hasn't changed at all honestly. It still feels the same. Manipulative, guilt trippy, playing a victim card, oppression olympics, trauma olympics too, all of that shit. It's amazing how endos love to say anti endos gatekeep trauma, but I see way more trauma olympics vibes from them. It's a very unfriendly space to trauma survivors, system or not tbh.

Okay. Vent over. Thank you for letting us rant. :)

Yeah we see that a lot. A lot will make comments on how you can't tell them they're not systems because then your discriminating and your a bigot and compariable to a racist.

We completely get that, they're more of the type to say "hey this thing? It wasn't traumatic enough so your endo".

No need to thank us!! /gen /pos

[argentilibrary]

Summary, Stances, Submits (+ How To Contact)

Plaintext at the end of the post, after the four dashes and under the read more. This post is recommended to be read before interacting with our blog. This post was last edited July 22, 2024. SUMMARY: Argenti Library is a blog dedicated to posting informational resources of all kinds. (Carrds, Rentries, Websites, Organizations, Articles, Personal Research, or any other form of information that may be interesting or helpful for plurals to read)

Extended Summary: Argenti Library is a blog run currently by one individual. It will post all forms of information, from any side of any argument, as long as they: 1. Do not call for the extermination of any particular group 2. Do not encourage individuals to commit crimes, harass individuals, or otherwise engage in harmful behavior 3. Are respectful to the mods and anyone who may interact with this account regardless of stance 4. Are, in some way, informational. These rules go for anyone who interacts with this account regardless of their stances on anything.

There is a lack of aggregated information on the internet for these topics, causing there to be large amounts of "the telephone game," echo chambers, misinformation on every side, and general harm to most communities involved. Argenti Library believes that it is healthy for anyone on any side of an argument to read and understand the other side's arguments, be able to easily understand and recognize bias in information on both sides, and to be able to interact with those with differing opinions respectfully. We will do our best to keep any and all posts accessible to all users.

STANCES: Argenti Library is neutral on any and all stances. Anyone, regardless on opinion, is welcome to interact and submit resources they deem interesting or informational.

Argenti Library labels every resource by: 1. Accessibility: Ease of reading, general screenreader compatibility, flashing lights, bright colors, or any other important to note comments on accessibility, including those requested to be added. 2. Credibility: Ranked by a 5 star system. Resources that cite credible sources (credible referring to a source that is either scholarly or popular) will receive the highest amount of stars, while resources with no sources have the lowest amount or none. 3. Risk (1): A color system (Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange, Red) that corresponds with the likelihood an article contains content that could be triggering to the reader. (Blue being absolutely no risk, Green being very low risk, Yellow being low but possible risk, Orange being medium risk, and Red being high risk). 4. Risk (2): Any possible triggers listed. This includes most common and some uncommon triggers, if deemed necessary to add or requested. 5. Stance of author: If an author is pro neu or anti endo, pro neu or antiship, pro neu or anti radqueer, or any other stance that is relevant to the resource.

SUBMITS: To submit a resource to Argenti Library, use the Argenti Library inbox labeled "Front Desk" and fill out the form below to the best of your ability. To ask a question, refer to How To Contact. To Request an accessibility and/or risk addition or a change to the author's stance, you may use either the Front Desk inbox or contact us on our main at your discretion.

Submission Form: Resource link: Located from (optional): Stance of submitter on resource topic (optional): Post with ask attached or as a standalone post: Anything else? (optional):

HOW TO CONTACT: For questions, comments and concerns, contact us on our main, @endogenicentropy. To know more about the librarian's personal stances (though they will be kept omitted from this blog wherever possible), contact us on our main, @endogenicentropy. To debate us on our personal stances, contact us on our main, @endogenicentropy. To send us pictures of birds you took or other various completely unrelated commentary, contact us on our main, @endogenicentropy. We do not have another blog, and if we did, we would not associate it with this one. If we create another blog, we will advertise it on our main. (our main is @endogenicentropy) ---- [Plaintext:

Summary: Argenti Library is a blog dedicated to posting informational resources of all kinds. (Carrds, Rentries, Websites, Organizations, Articles, Personal Research, or any other form of information that may be interesting or helpful for plurals to read)

Extended Summary: Argenti Library is a blog run currently by one individual. It will post all forms of information, from any side of any argument, as long as they: 1. Do not call for the extermination of any particular group 2. Do not encourage individuals to commit crimes, harass individuals, or otherwise engage in harmful behavior 3. Are respectful to the mods and anyone who may interact with this account regardless of stance 4. Are, in some way, informational. These rules go for anyone who interacts with this account regardless of their stances on anything. There is a lack of aggregated information on the internet for these topics, causing there to be large amounts of "the telephone game," echo chambers, misinformation on every side, and general harm to most communities involved. Argenti Library believes that it is healthy for anyone on any side of an argument to read and understand the other side's arguments, be able to easily understand and recognize bias in information on both sides, and to be able to interact with those with differing opinions respectfully. We will do our best to keep any and all posts accessible to all users.

Stances: Argenti Library is neutral on any and all stances. Anyone, regardless on opinion, is welcome to interact and submit resources they deem interesting or informational.

Argenti Library labels every resource by: 1. Accessibility: Ease of reading, general screenreader compatibility, flashing lights, bright colors, or any other important to note comments on accessibility, including those requested to be added. 2. Credibility: Ranked by a 5 star system. Resources that cite credible sources (credible referring to a source that is either scholarly or popular, linked clarification: https://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/c.php?g=83917&p=3747680) will receive the highest amount of stars, while resources with no sources have the lowest amount or none. 3. Risk (1): A color system (Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange, Red) that corresponds with the likelihood an article contains content that could be triggering to the reader. (Blue being absolutely no risk, Green being very low risk, Yellow being low but possible risk, Orange being medium risk, and Red being high risk). 4. Risk (2): Any possible triggers listed. This includes most common and some uncommon triggers, if deemed necessary to add or requested. 5. Stance of author: If an author is pro neu or anti endo, pro neu or antiship, pro neu or anti radqueer, or any other stance that is relevant to the resource. Submits: to submit a resource to Argenti Library, use the Argenti Library inbox labeled "Front Desk" and fill out the form below to the best of your ability. To ask a question, refer to How To Contact. To Request an accessibility and/or risk addition or a change to the author's stance, you may use either the Front Desk inbox or contact us on our main at your discretion. Submission Form: Resource link: Located from (optional): Stance of submitter on resource topic (optional): Post with ask attached or as a standalone post: Anything else? (optional):

How To Contact: For questions, comments and concerns, contact us on our main, endogenicentropy. To know more about the librarian's personal stances (though they will be kept omitted from this blog wherever possible), contact us on our main, endogenicentropy. To debate us on our personal stances, contact us on our main, endogenicentropy. To send us pictures of birds you took or other various completely unrelated commentary, contact us on our main, endogenicentropy. We do not have another blog, and if we did, we would not associate it with this one. If we create another blog, we will advertise it on our main. (our main is endogenicentropy)

/End plaintext]

[sophieinwonderland]

https://www.tumblr.com/sophieinwonderland/754022315455545344/while-my-post-was-meant-to-be-hurtful-i-also

i understand. i’m sick of anti-endos. sysmed rhetoric kept me, and my system, in a dark place for years. pushing for acceptance is important for our community and the plural future.

hurting others back won’t do anything. it only fuels the fire. being kind and correcting misinfo is all we can do. and for ourselves, we can take breaks when it becomes too much.

block out their tags, stay in pro-endogenic ones, or logging off even. don’t go to their level of harassment/hate. the plural community is about love and acceptance. that includes for every plural, even the ones who believe in sysmed rhetoric.

we can correct their misinfo, but there’s no reason to hurt them back. i hope you’re doing okay, and taking breaks if you need them.

I mean... there can be value to tossing fuel on a fire. Especially if your goal is getting attention by getting that fire to burn bright enough.

There's a legitimate risk of pushing people to double down on their beliefs. That type of backfire would obviously be bad.

But some people are attracted to the blaze. People are curious creatures by nature. A lot of anti-endos had me blocked before. Now they've taken another look at my blog because of the fire.

There is a value to infamy, I've found. Even being talked about in a negative way can attract more attention to a cause than not being talked about at all. I've actually had multiple anti-endos whose minds I've helped change come to this blog before and tell me it was because of how infamous I was in the anti-endo community and how much they talked about me.

Perhaps I took the wrong lesson away from that and decided that I should actively try to ensure my infamy remains intact.

But I think using and maintaining their perception of me personally can be advantageous since it lets my name breach the deepest chasms of their echo chambers.

While this particular post was driven by a building anger... there has also been an overall goal of making myself enough of a nuisance to keep them talking about me in their circles. Because if people constantly hear how terrible I am, at least some of them are going to be curious and want to check out my blog to see if it's as bad as everyone is saying.

And then hopefully once they've been baited into showing up, that's when their defenses can be eroded away by reality. No, they won't instantly accept it, but hopefully if they can start doomscrolling my blog the same way a lot of us end up doomscrolling r/systemscringe, the information I provide can worm its way past their defenses and wear them down over time.

It does feel, at a certain level, a lot of anti-endos are only willing to engage with endogenic systems who they think will confirm their worst opinions about endogenic systems. If so, maybe making them see me personally as a danger in order to trick them into coming onto my blog and being exposed to resources that would never reach them in their echo chambers is a good tactic

I don't know. 🤷‍♀️

I have no idea if this is actually effective as a strategy. My big worry is that I've been rationalizing a counterproductive tactic because it allows me to speak out in anger, because there's a part of me that does just want to hurt people that hurt us and people I care about, or maybe even because I enjoy the negative attention on some level. And while I know some people who are drawn in by it, I don't know the number people who it pushes away.

All of these things are going through my head.

But by the gods, I'm actually getting engagement from anti-endos! It's not good engagement, maybe. But I provide facts and people block me straight away or ignore whatever I'm saying, then I say something deliberately hurtful that gets publicized in their spaces and now they're paying attention!

I hate that this strategy feels as effective as it does. That it's seemingly successful in getting their attention, where providing information alone kept getting me blocked on sight and causing them to shutdown.

And the fact that this is also conditioning me towards worse behavior is also not lost on me.

[ethanthealien]

💛 You can call (us) Ethan! 💛

23, he/they | Autistic + Polyfragmented DID System

We are an alien black cat, the cat in our icon!

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ | Queer; Non-binary, Transmasculine, Genderqueer...

✅ I support any good-faith "weird"/"contradictory" LGBTQ+ identity label. This does include bisexual gays/lesbians, transmasculine/transfeminine lesbians/gays, transfeminine/transmasculine people who were AFAB (transfem)/AMAB (transmasc). TME/TMA labels are intersexist, and I WILL block anybody I see using them.

✅ I completely support well-researched self-diagnosis.

My posts - Self-explanatory. All of my posts that I have personally made are tagged with this, as well as posts I've reblogged with any of my own added commentary.

My art - Also self-explanatory.

Partner Tag - Anything that reminds me of my partner, @budewfan :)

Fave Posts - My favorite posts. Usually because they bring me a lot of joy/comfort, but they might just be really fucking hilarious to me lmfao

Bookmark - Posts I'd like to have saved and would like to go back to, usually for referencing it and for going back to finding important posts, usually with helpful information.

DIDCore - Posts that are funnier and/or take on a different meaning when it relates back to my DID. As well as any posts that are about CDDs.

Disability Tag - Anything related to disability. Disability pride, information, education, art, resources, and more.

Queer Stuff - Anything related to being Queer. Resources, art, pride, etc.

Art - Self-explanatory.

❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹 - Vent art, art that could be interpreted as vent art. Anything that I feel like I can relate back to my trauma or something. Doesn't necessarily have to mean that the original artist intended for it to be vent art, but I might personally relate it back to trauma, etc.

Cats

Splatoon

Pokemon // Pkmn // Eeveelutions

Syscourse opinions?

It doesn't really matter to me whether you can "be a system without trauma" or whatever, because if somebody exists that way, then they exist that way, and they should be allowed to exist the way they do without harming others, and without being harmed.

I do have many problems and many things I find uncomfortable in syscourse spaces, such as the rampant ableism and misinformation. However, those things are not exclusive to endogenic spaces, and the problem isn't with endogenic systems, it's with ableists and misinformation. Obviously plenty of endogenic systems and pro-endos are not ableist, do not spread misinformation, are not misinformed themselves, and are also not hateful and vitriolic towards people with CDDs! Some do. But the exact same arguments are true for anyone who isn't pro-endo. Plenty of anti-endos, who some do and don't have CDDs themselves, are extremely hateful, vitriolic, and ableist towards people with CDDs, and especially hateful and vitriolic towards endogenic systems. That is something I cannot get behind and support or agree with.

Endogenic systems are just people who just want to live their lives. Even if you don't "believe" in them, like them, support them, or care about them, why HATE them? Frankly, anti-endos and fake-claimers, from what I have seen especially lately, are often far more ableist than a lot of endogenic systems and pro-endos are... Many anti-endos and fake-claimers are extremely ableist. Oftentimes extremely misinformed about what CDDs are and how they work.

I do believe many people who believe they are endogenic are actually people with a CDD in denial, and/or who don't know or realize they have a CDD, don't remember their trauma, etc. But even so, it doesn't really matter because, again, people should be allowed to exist the way they do without harm, without harassment, without being fake-claimed. And if we are to assume that literally every single endogenic system is actually "just a person with a CDD in denial", they don't owe you the right to exist ONLY if they say they have a CDD or something.

Overall, I generally don't fucking care. I am a person with DID and endogenic systems have got nothing to do with me. I just want to exist as a person with DID and I just want to talk about my experiences as a person with DID. I want people to be allowed to exist as they do without harming others and without BEING harmed simply because you decided that it's impossible for them to exist because you feel that they can't exist that way unless they have a disorder.