#we have lots of celebrities who are gay (and I'm a fan of many of them) and i hope they'd pretend until the end and will never be discovere

[dramaism]

As of today I'm an extremist in my own country. Russia just declared LGBTQ movement as "extremist"

People just want to be happy with each other, live freely, hold hands on the streets

And now, if you show in any way publicly that you are a queer you will be charged as an extremist, meaning anything from a huge fee to imprisonment

I'm sad but I hope love wins at the end

[genericpuff]

(disclaimer, this is coming from a heartstopper fan! i love heartstopper this is not hate!!)

i think at least part of the annoyance with heartstopper isn't just that isn't a light fluffy ya series, it's also that its another example of how the queer media that gets the most mainstream attention tends to be this kind of light fluffy ya stuff that focuses on two conventially attractive queer boys or men and it also tends to be written by people who aren't queer men on top of that, so not only can it feel very samey but it can feel like other queer people are relegated to side characters in the stories of cis gay men. and as someone who loves heartstopper i get that on some level.

btw by "written by people who aren't queer men" NOT saying that isn't not written by queer people. alice oseman is genderfluid and aroace, becky albertalli is bisexual, etc. and while i think the point is still valid there is a misogyny element in that a lot of the focus is put on things that are written by women or people they perceive as women while tumblr darlings like good omens and ofmd (written by presumably straight men) don't get the same treatment.

nah y'know what, that's fair, I can get how frustrating it can be for a lot of popular queer stories to feel samey, I've definitely gotten BL-fatigue in the past on platforms like WT and Tapas because many of them ARE the same and feel like they're just piggybacking off trends for the sake of clout (and this is a problem in the heterocis romance stories too, don't get me fucking started on how dark romance has turned into torture porn where vulnerable women are constantly being victimized by rich powerful men and we're just supposed to root for that ??), but it's one of those things where like, what might be seen as just more corny shit could very well be the revelation another person needs that they're gay / trans / etc. that the story helped them realize. there's just a point where i see these arguments against cheesy popular queer stories that teeter dangerously close to being queerphobic and, as you said, misogynist, simply because "it was written by someone who i perceive as a woman so that makes it BAD!"

and I didn't mention it in the original post because I didn't want to @ OP in any way but in the comment section they literally said "i dont think heartstopper itself is all that bad but it has pretty much aimed the direction of all mainstream gay comics towards wholesomeness instead of anything more interesting so i want to destroy heartstopper to destroy heartstopper clones" and that gives me massive ick because it implies their sole reasoning for including it was "chill and happy queer stories bad, if a character doesn't suffer enough then they're not interesting"?? why can't LGBTQ+ audiences have more 'vanilla' stories that aren't all sad and angsty all the time? are we not entitled to the same corny romcom vanilla shit that the heterocis are entitled to? why do LGBTQ+ characters - and by extension, people - have to suffer to qualify as being 'interesting'? You're already interesting, you're you! like i'm sorry, are we trying to scare people straight??? 😭 shit, that's even a plot point that's touched on in Heartstopper itself where Nick is questioning his sexuality and he starts googling shit and it's just ALL the terrifying news stories of queer kids being ostracized / bullied / murdered / etc. and as much as it's important to be aware of the ongoing issues so we can keep fighting for our rights, we ALSO need to find balance and remember to celebrate the stories that AREN'T that because we need something to be hopeful for, something we can find peace in. I don't think Heartstopper is some deeply profound piece of work, but it also doesn't seem like it's trying to be? It's a low stakes celebration of the LGBTQ+ experience that's very warm and comforting, especially for those who are the same ages as the main characters who are often being persuaded by the grown-ups around them that it's a death sentence to be gay / trans / etc.

and it's not like we HAVEN'T had popular pieces of queer representative media that explored things outside of cheesy BL, like are we forgetting about Nimona which explored both the gay and genderfluid experience in a very accessible and fun way while still being mature and not pandering to its audience over how society has made monsters out of queer people?

(and even then I'm sure there are folks who would argue "actually, here are the issues with Nimona" , and that's fine tbh, we can like media and appreciate what it brings to the table while also discussing what it lacks in, such as what we're doing now with Heartstopper! progress is a never-ending journey!!)

and also okay, not me trying to be argumentative in the slightest BUT I don't really get the argument that 'other queer people' are being sidelined for the main characters? unless there's something I'm missing here lol (I will apologize for that because it's admittedly been a while since I've re-read Heartstopper so I should probably go do that to refresh myself on it). like i say that in the sense that Heartstopper is clearly meant to be about two gay male teenagers. just like how Nimona is about a shapeshifter who is not a girl or a boy (they're Nimona!) and a gay man who are both trying to change the system that's other'd them for years for the better. that is the story Heartstopper is trying to tell and it achieves that. it also has a trans character plotline that I could see people arguing feels sidelined but I think there's a massive difference between 'sidelining' and just having a B plot ? my honest take with that is not every piece of representative media is going to be able to cover every single topic, it's just not doable for one piece of media to be a monolith for everything, the same as how one person can't be a monolith for an entire community of people. BUT that doesn't mean works like Heartstopper and Nimona can't inspire others to also lend their voices into the medium and create that representation that's needed. That's why we need ✨variety✨ and Heartstopper is part of that variety by offering a more vanilla cutesy story full of good vibes for people who want that sort of thing.

IDK, I think there's just a lot of nuance that's being missed in that poll, and in the difference between Heartstopper inspiring more people to write happy cozy BL stories vs. implying that it's had an actual negative influence on modern art and media in the same way that series like Homestuck and LO have to the point that people think it needs to be destroyed, like wtf LOL Like they're not even comparable IMO and a lot of the arguments I see people making about why it is just feel a little backwards, and those arguments obfuscate the real issue which is just "popular thing is popular and people like to piggyback off popular shit". That's a fact for basically any niche and genre, these trends come and go. Even if the whole cutesy BL trend passes one day (which it will) it'll be replaced by something else that people will also inevitably find samey and boring after a while. This is not a concept that's unique to LGBTQ+ media, it's universal.

Balance is important and I think finding that balance is as much a responsibility on the shoulders of the consumer as it is on the creator. And I don't think Heartstopper deserves to be put into the same camp as stories like LO which literally straightwashes its canonically queer characters and gives those queer identities to nothingburger characters who are easy to shoo out of the plot to make way for the heterocis ones (while still parading itself around like it's actually 'queer rep' which... it really isn't.) Like all three of the comics in that poll are vastly different, serving different audiences, with different goals and intentions. It's comparing apples to oranges to pineapples.

The worst Heartstopper has to offer is just a low stakes plot that might not appeal to everyone or feel 'samey' which yeah, valid, but in the grander sense of whether or not it's had a negative effect on queer media just for being... cheesy? And inspiring other people to write stories like it? I don't get the argument, it feels like it's severely missing the point of what we're fighting for here - to live happy little unbothered lives - but that's just me ╮(￣ω￣;)╭ I'm definitely not trying to be a dick about it in any way and I don't want anyone to think I'm not open to the opposing points here, I do agree with you on the oversaturation of samey BL stories, but it just rose some massive red flags to see Heartstopper next to frigging Homestuck and Lore Olympus LOL

[epickiya722]

Merry Christmas (if you celebrate it)...So I just have an interesting discussions with my JJK moots (also fics writers) last night. There are 5 of us and we all have different ships (A = nanami/gojo, B = gojo/yuji, C = gojo/utahime, D = sukuna/yuuji & itadori/fushiguro also an anti gojo, and E (me) = gojo/ geto).

One of the thing that interest me is, when I asked the first three people why they include Getou in their fics. You know what they said? "We can't imagine Gojo without Getou's influence. So we made Getou as the 'memorable and unforgetable ex- lover'. Getou also fit as Gojo's 'one and only best friend'." And when I asked the fourth one, who do you ship Gojo with. They said, " I really dislike Gojo as a character so I can only see Gojo with Getou as the most reasonable ship."

Until now I was still surprised that even among non- SatoSugu shipper and anti Gojo fan, they can't deny the special bond between Gojo and Getou. And that's why they are my otp.... Sorry for this long ask, hope you don't mind....

Happy Holidays to you, Anon! I don't mind the long ask, it's all good! 😁

That does sound like you had an interesting discussion.

Now, personally for me, I do like Gojo as a character and yep, I have my ships for him. First one happen to be Gojo/Nanami, like that was my first Gojo and Nanami ship. Still like it. It's the only other Gojo ship I like. And of course, right now, I'm a fan of Gojo/Geto.

The movie did it for me because ain't no way you recognize someone from his scent of his energy and you haven't seen him in 10+ years or you're going around renaming people with a name that sounds like your "friend's" name while also wearing a clothing piece that has his last name in its name!

For me, I happen to like the characters. I like how they are on their own and if I like the dynamic they have with another character then, yeah, I'd probably ship it romantically and still vibe with it platonically.

(There are some instances I won't though. Not all dynamics strike me as "they would potentially have a romance".)

It's always funny to me when there will be people who are anti-*insert character or ship*, yet can't even deny that ship's special bond between those characters.

I see it a lot for another fandom I'm in for a really popular ship and it will just tickle me to see some anti go "this character isn't gay" but then turn around and go "but their relationship with this character is kinda not normal... but they're not gay". They act like a character has to be strictly gay to actually have romance with another character. Honey, the word "bisexual" exist. "Pansexual" exists. There are so many options for sexualities.

Or even funnier when those characters don't even show interest in the opposite sex like that and/or treat characters of that opposite the same way.

And honestly, I need some people to understand the difference between characters hating each other or just one character truly hates the other (AND IT BE EXPLICIT SOMETIMES) and having just a complicated relationship and not hate each other. Just because two characters are at odds sometimes, it doesn't always mean they hate each other. Especially, if they do things they won't do with anybody else.

Like, let's be real, whatever Gojo and Geto have cannot be compared with other relationships they have with other characters because what the hell?! Platonic or romantic, those two are soulmates!

When they separated from each other, I just... oh my gosh! It started going downhill for Geto when Gojo was assigned to more solo missions and when Geto deflected? Gojo really lost his damn mind! He really out here acting like that! He was so distraught, man made himself bleed!

"My one and only", "My soul knows otherwise..."

And in the dub, Gojo says "My heart and soul"!

Geto literally choking out his own body from beyond the grave because Gojo called out to him.

DECEMBER 24TH!!

It's like with those two... if another character told Gojo "if you can shoot that basketball into the goal, I'll give you a kiss" and then he'll purposely miss. Let Geto say it, he'll show out, shoot the basketball and get it in the basket ten times in a row.

Someone ask Geto "Well, what kind of people are you into", he'll probably go "definitely not you". Gojo ask? Heart eyes and "why are you asking? Are you into me?"

[fantasygerard2000]

WISH Story Ideas I'm Lowkey Salty No One Bother To Come Up and Use

It's been a while since I wrote about Wish. So, why not discuss it more because Wish is fun to talk about.

So, most rewrites I find tend to just share the exact same idea; it's literally the movie but with Star as Asha's boyfriend. I am not against this as a concept in general, but after seeing most of them are just being the exact same idea, it no longer find it intriguing to be interested in. Kind of like an anime isekai, same shtick, different skin.

Even few and rare rewrites like for example giving Asha a black love interest are intriguing to me. After seeing so many of them just stick with the white boy Star, a black girl Star actually makes me interested in wanting one even tho it's a small change. And you know it's a problem when there's so much of the same that a slight deviation is considered an original.

So, let's workshop some ideas, shall we?

Most rewrites tend to stick with the humanoid Star idea, which I still find intriguing, and not the imaginary "he was a love interest" misconception fans glued onto. Another major factor is that the first draft for Star is that they were a shapeshifter, an idea I see rarely use or depicted in artwork. The Art Book literally says that Star was a mix of Peter Pan and Genie, yet most rewrites sticked with the Peter Pan idea. The real mis-opportunity here is a magical being that is actually magical.

So, for one idea that's inspired after the shapeshifter idea as well as the plethora of elaborate unused Star designs before Disney sticked with the simple "plush" design we got is have Star having a monstrous form. Like, the story is still generally the same but Star is this big monster who starts turning more human as the story progresses while Magnifico starts becoming monstrous as he succumbs to dark magic. If Starboy is catered for people with basic tastes, why not design Star catered for the gays and the furries?

Another idea I see that is used a lot in rewrites is making Asha Magnifico's daughter. Again, an interesting idea but a bit problematic considering that Asha's is black, mixed race specifically. I mean, you can come up with the idea that she was adopted but most tend to make her his and Amaya's legitimate daughter, which means redesigning her. Just like my comment on how fangirls drew the Peter Pan inspiration more for Starboy than both Peter AND Genie, redesigns for Asha as Magnifico's daughter tend to cater more on her European half than her North African half.

If you want Asha to be a princess with Magnifico being an evil family member of hers, here's one.

Tomas, Asha's father, and Magnifico are brothers with Tomas being the crowned king of Rosas and Magnifico the spare. After Tomas falls in love with Sakina, a servant girl and had a baby with her, Magnifico sees this as an act of betrayal to their royal line and secretly killed Tomas as punishment but mostly to take the throne. Sakina in this version died to childbirth so Asha is raised as a servant girl, unaware she's the true heir to the throne. An homage to Cinderella and Snow White since Wish has numerous homages to classical Disney films.

You don't even need to center the premise about wishes. If you want to write a Disney movie celebrating their 100 years with homages to their classical films, you can center it on romance, adventure, family, basically any theme you find in old Disney movies.

You can even write a reverse Enchanted-esque story with Asha from the modern world entering a magical kingdom through a book her late grandfather made.

Sure, everyone has preferences on what media they wanna make and consume, that isn't a bad thing in general. But there are endless ideas that people are missing out on.

If you want to make a better Wish, more than these samey Starboy romances, you have the power to do so.

[rainbowsky]

GQ and XZ have bad history??? They boycotted him why??

Hi Anon,

This is a fandom - mostly 🍤 - conspiracy theory that doesn't hold a lot of weight. I'm not going to get into the weeds on it except to say that a lot of the claims are false or misrepresented, especially the ones about Rocco Liu.

The post that is said to have come from Rocco is one from 2019 where he allegedly says he's getting sick of seeing GG's face everywhere and basically rolls his eyes and says stars like that are here today, gone tomorrow. (However, the account/post no longer exists, so it's impossible to verify whether it was real, whether it was him or not, etc.)

And the post itself is pretty harmless. Yeah, it's speaking negatively about GG, but it's the sort of thing people say online about celebrities every single day.

There are 2 or 3 other posts that are claimed to be from Rocco, but which fans are actually mistaking. They appear to have come from the previous editor-in-chief, and mostly swirled around 2/27. And the whole 'boycott' claim is just totally unsubstantiated.

(Edit: More on this later in the post)

2/27 didn't bring out the best in a lot of people, and it was horrible for GG but I think it's best to look at it rationally and have a sense of perspective. Every day every one of us casually says terrible things about one celebrity or another. Especially when we are hearing horrible things about a person and their influence on culture.

For example, I absolutely can't stand Lady Gaga. While some of her songs are OK, I mostly find her fake and hugely overrated. Which as a gay man is practically a crime in most people's eyes. 😅

Sometimes we go on to revise our opinions and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we grow to respect a star more over time, other times we grow to gradually dislike them more.

What's at the forefront of our minds one week will be forgotten the next. Most of those who we've had a negative opinion of in the past we probably couldn't name even a few months later. This is just how culture works, especially in the age of the internet.

All of this is totally normal. One of the prices of fame is being under the scrutiny of millions of people. Some will love you, some will be indifferent, and some will hate you.

I doubt very much GG carries a grudge about a social media post from 4 years ago (an eternity in the entertainment business), whether it was from Rocco or not. DD certainly doesn't seem to. They've heard infinitely worse and moved on from it. Fans should too.

I think if we are going to have such ruthless purity tests about everyone who has ever said anything negative about GG and DD then we would have to also accept people holding every single thing GG and DD have said/done in the past against them, no matter how many years ago it happened.

As fans, I'm not sure that's a path we should want to go down. Both GG and DD have come under fire for things they said/did when they were younger, and antis love to dig through old posts and clips of them trying to find evidence they're horrible people.

Like I said before, this is mostly a solo theory that toxic solos like to obsess over. They make it their mission to viciously slander and attack anyone who they feel is a threat to GG, or so much as says anything less than totally fawning about him. They've actually gotten GG into hot water over that kind of behavior multiple times in the past, and I doubt they'll ever stop.

Keep in mind that it's in their interests to spin narratives of DD getting cozy with 'a sworn enemy' of GG. So these breathless tales of GQ and Rocco Liu being GG antis have an ulterior motive. They're a (very thinly) veiled attack on DD and on BXG.

EDIT: and I should add that this anti theory is also used by DD solos to attack GG, claiming that GQ hate GG because of all of the various shortcomings DD solos think GG has, and that the hatred is totally justified, etc. They use the fact that DD has had some high profile GQ moments as proof that DD is a bigger star, that he's more in demand, blah blah blah. It's same shit, different pile. Antis are antis, and will say anything to try to malign and destroy others, regardless of how false and horrible it is.

The best thing we can do is block and ignore (and report when appropriate). Swimming in toxic waste will mutate you into a toxic person over time. Save yourself, stay in your own lane and just enjoy GG and DD.

Edit: Because fans are continuing to push this conspiracy theory, I dug back into the topic and wrote about it more here.

[jiminsass-istant]

Colour : Jimin

I think about Colour : Freedom part of the photo folio a lot. It's literally my roman empire. I think about it at least thrice a day. (Contd.)

Perhaps I wouldn't think about it so much if it was just for an album concept. But we know that all photo folios were self directed. The members had full creative freedom and creative help. Jimin decided to show us 'parts of himself'. He called this particular look 'unrefined boy' and even compared this look to HYYH concepts. For some reason, Jimin has always been attached to HYYH, that album holding a very special meaning for him. Even tattoed 'young forever' on himself. I digress.

So they had full creative freedom to decide the elements put into this photoshoot. And one CANNOT argue that he just did what the stylists asked him to. Jimin won't let these elements into a photoshoot that shows sides of 'HIMSELF' if he wasn't aware of the implications. The lights, the symbolism, the outfits, the temporary tattoos, the props. I repeat, these photos are not for an album or a magazine or a song or a commercial. They're just to represent him. Some other members decided to do more conceptual/fictional shoots- jk with vampire aesthetic, V with vintage european aesthetic, jin with concepts related to sea. But Jimin clearly said he wanted to show different sides of himself.

Now one might say, he was just trying to show his 'gender neutral charm'. But there are so many ways to do that, instead of inserting obvious queer elements. We have other 'gender neutral' charm artists and kpop idols. He could have just shown the feminine and masculine sides, busts of artemis, apollo with gender neutral clothes. But he had to write 'free love' on his arm, and wear THAT t-shirt.

Same with the Robert Mapplethorpe pants in Like Crazy MV. He won't wear pants with some dude's face on it, for the title song about his own experience, for an album about his own self, and NOT ask the stylist about the face on his pants. The same pants that will be immortalised in Youtube forever in his debut title track MV. Jimin knows who that dude is. A 1-minute google search will tell you that Mapplethorpe was a well known celebrity photographer, famous for striking bnw photos and controversial shoots. Notable ones being - the one where he blurs the boundaries of genders, female and male nudes, gay male BDSM photography etc.

I remember how once there was massive backlash on BTS because one of the members was seen wearing a tshirt with the Japan atom bombs attack print on it with the text 'liberation of korea'. I might be wrong. But that made a lot of noise and even a BTS radio show in japan was cancelled. So you cannot tell me that bts members are not careful with what they wear, especially after that incident.

I know a lot of 'woke' armies said we shouldn't assume things about him. But..we aren't blind either. So I guess it's -

If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't.

We'll never get to see all the layers of his personality on camera and that's alright. And no, we'll never ever get to know any possible queer life experience related to him. (Keyword: possible) There are limits to what he shows to fans.

Thinking of putting down some more thoughts on the entire photofolio. I observed there's a story in it too. Maybe someday.

PS: I hope you realise that I'm not talking from a shipper perspective. That is about something Jimin is actively expressing, not about what fans speculate/analyse. This post is about Jimin and Jimin only.

Tags are only for me.

[whatudowhennooneseesyou]

Hii! Could you edit when you can your Hongjoong nsfw reading since it has the wrong rising and houses?

And wanted to comment some things too like I don't think him having Winona as a type is true (at least not that he said it) bc I didn't see that anywhere?? And talking abt Camila, I believe she has olive skin and changes depending the weather, but either way the poster he had in the past she wasn't light at all soo. Anyways he said lot of times that he doesn't have an ideal type and goes for the auras and how they are (btw don't care if he didn't explicitly said the word still believe he came out as pansexual, also other tarot readings always point that too!). Aesthetic, not sexual, attraction is another thing. Like that fan he said was gorgeous with gothic(? aesthetic.

But ig it could influence too if he is attracted to those kind of aesthetics in the first place to talk with them and leading to whatever.

And about those fancalls and fansigns fans I'm pretty sure he acts like that bc he knows and loves how his fans praise him and is very giggly and cute or flirty on purpose bc he knows they and him like it.

He could like them too who knows but only he can confirm bc he looks at ppl with what some say love or attraction and shows attention to literally almost everyone lol, all the members, interviewers, fans, some celebrities..

Btw I so agree with what you said of parasocial relationships affecting them too, recently ppl were talking about them and I said that bc we usually never think it affects them too and pretty sure goes both ways, I mean we even have proof of it, he said himself various times he relies to atiny for comfort too and communicates to us a lot of things and important occasions as if we were friends and always wants to be more close to us. I think is also something he needs in any close friend/partnership he is compatible with, his chart indicates it too. The other more interactive members too..They all try to have some boundaries too at least but yeah definitely affects them in some degree.

Aside the ones mentioned like Camila, all the celebs he likes and maaybe some fans, for more type "indicators" he said Mingi was sexy and his deep voice was his type, or when he shows his "panicked gay" behavior like to say some examples, around Sh doing exercise shirtless in their old dorms, recently saying "while I calm my beating heart" to San being shirtless and wanting him to be covered lol, or many times being nervous and giggly around Yunho holding his waist and being close, saying how handsome he is and for Yeosang too, and touching his biceps constantly or saying he loves his and Sh deep tones. So I see a pattern of somewhat muscular, tall and deep voiced guys👀 Btw not shipping him with any of them but those things can still show our preferences.

Ah idk but maybe also him at least aesthetically attracted to androgyny and gnc ppl like he himself is bc of some artists he loves like David Bowie, Prince, the singer in Years&Years, etc.

So in conclusion maybe more "masculine" looking guys, "feminine" girls, and any androgynous or/and gnc person! But yeah at the end don't think physical aspect is not important or the most important to him.

And on another topic, I would also say he may like the other being dominant or/and a top as well. Bc I saw cap risings or/and dominant ppl saying they like being topped and dominated in bed in contrast of them being pressured/being dominant in the rest of their life aspects! Think this could be true seeing how he always relegates his leader role any time he can to the others and how he likes being taken care of, like Sh and Yh mainly, always taking care of him when they shared bedrooms or life things bc he is so clumsy and also has too many responsibilities and pression with that role in his job already to also be that way in his private life. And you can tell he forces himself to be that way like his "I think I need to be more patriarchal" for them to listen to him and take him seriously some times, and also needing to be that way in contrast to Sh, even if I think they are wrong and should do both roles if they want balance not being just one thing and Hj not having to be the one that scolds and nags them specially at the beginning when he is so caring too and could be more if he didn't have that parent and leader role😔

And even if he still has both facets we saw how he actually is such a baby in a relaxed ambients specially with older ppl than him too, and even saying how pure and innocent was bf having to be a leader (although to me he still is just not only that).

Anyways tangent done, but I think both him and his partner could be switches and verses and being one role or another depending the partner or occasion💁

Hey, thank you for sending this in and I honestly don't really have a lot to add to this opinion because I think all these points are great and valid.

Yes, I will revise Hongjoong's natal chart once I finish Softtober and my final Mommy!May fic and then I'll focus more on astrology content for the new year.

He mentioned it in an interview or a behind-the-scenes clip A LONG TIME AGO like I think it was around 2018-2019 that he mentioned it?

And Camilla does have olive skin which is why I said 'fair complexion' that includes a vast array of skin tones and high-contrast features, like think Deep/True Winter colour palette and aesthetic.

I know he has hinted a few times at being apart of the LGBTQIA+ community but when did he say anything about being specifically pansexual? I'm curious now and would like to know more.

Aesthetic and sexual attraction are different, I agree and it's what I mean when I say there are some fancalls where you can see that the member thinks the Atiny is attractive in some way.

I giggled when I saw that Atiny with Hongjoong with their bright hair and fishnet gloves and dark eye makeup because when Hongjoong said their style was his type, I was like...'KNEW IT!!! I FKN KNEW IT!!'

In regards to what you mentioned about him potentially liking 'masculine' guys, I hadn't thought about but I can see it, it reminds me of when he said Mingi was 'his type' in one of the concerts lol! I don't know what context he meant when he said it, I just know he said it.

I've always been a firm believer of 'switch hongjoong' and I do believe that while he does prefer to be dominant, he's one of the few members (Wooyoung and San are the other ones) that are 60-40 even when it comes to power dynamics.

There is this comfort image in my mind of Hongjoong being the type to want to be babied and 'taken care off' after a hard day at work or when he's burnt out- I think if he's really tired but still in the mood, he wouldn't mind having his partner just take over and do whatever they want.

Hongjoong gives me the aura of someone who potentially might be demisexual in all honesty and has shifts in his drive and libido, I feel (because I have similar natal chart placements to him) like he would rather abstain until he meets 'the one' rather than have casual and meaningless sex.

Why? You may ask?

Hongjoong's Scorpio Venus in the 11th House indicates he's satisfied with the praise and appreciation he receives from Atiny's so whoever Hongjoong's future partner will be, they must be truly special because Hongjoong doesn't NEED to be in a romantic relationship, he chooses to be in them.

Anyway, this was a great conversation anon and I really enjoyed chatting with you :)

[alarrytale]

Sorry if this is a little off topic.. it is somewhat about H+L but mostly about closeting in general. Your blog has been really educational for me. How would you tell if a celebrity is going into the closet permanently, like nailing the closet door shut? That they wouldn't be coming out for a long long time or maybe never at all. Do you think there would be signs in advance or it can come from out of nowhere. What do you think the signs would be? A lavender marriage maybe, or long term public relationship? I wonder about this a lot because I don't want to be caught out again. I had this recently with my fave actor who is in his late 30s and I've been a big fan and followed him since his early 20s. I was sure he was gay and I knew who his male partner was, another actor. His male partner was always in the background and they hung out a lot publicly but also with a beard, as if she was providing a cover. There were also many slip ups on ig from their families like the Tomlinson sisters slip up. About their sexuality and being in a relationship. Well recently my fave is engaged and his supposed girlfriend is pregnant. I wasn't expecting it, it really surprised me. The other guy is still around so it's not like I think they broke up. I still think he is closeted, I can't forget everything I've seen. But I feel really disappointed. If I am to think of the signs in hindsight, well he didn't queercode and he's really straight presenting. People don't question his sexuality, only if they have followed really closely and since early on in his career when he was more open about it. He had a long term beard. He's really ambitious with his career. I just didn't expect it, I'm so disappointed and can't quite believe it. To bring it back to H+L, theoretically if they were never going to come out what signs do you think we would see? Would there be signs?

Hi, anon!

So happy my blog has been educational for you! If a celebrity were to shut the closet door firmly shut, i'd expect to see a few different things. No queercoding, at least not concious and intentional queercoding, and a more permanent solution for a beard (long term and possibly with a low key, non-attention seeking beard), and if they ever want a family, kids or/and lavender marriage. I would also look for a turn towards more masculine and stereotypically masculine environments and behaviour. More straight presenting. Think of T*m Crui*e and Joh* Trav*lta. I would also expect to see them shy away from anything queer affiliated aka not show up at Glaad awards or publicly support queer charities. They don't want focus on their queerness and would try to dispel and counter any queer rumour, without drawing focus on it. It's image management basically.

If H and L never want to come out or at least not come out until they're grey and old, i'd expect them to tone down their queeness, try to sever their connection to each other and get into steady longterm relationship with non-attention seeking women. I'd expect them to attempt to play along and not sabotage their own efforts. They'd go all in to sell their straightness to get people to back off and to ease the pressure on themselves.

[turnertable]

can I say something controversial after we just got done celebrating miles and Alex reuniting?

I think Milex is a cute ship, it is, they are an adorable pair. their chemistry is very sweet and they are like soulmates you can tell, be that platonic or not in y'alls opinions. I personally don't ship it (always been a mattlex girly myself, platonically talking). I do feel at times y'all do focus on the wrong thing with Miles and Alex. some of you lot love defending Miles and how he doesn't deserve to just be associated with Alex but please and I beg you, tell me truthfully you know Miles from his solo work and not from TLSP. there's few of us, I think Miles is great and his music is good, I saw him before AM live FFS but no I wouldn't know Miles without Alex. It's just a thing that will always exist and it's unfortunate I know but it's true. I also think documenting and cherry picking at specific moments that have literally no correlation at all to milex romantic moments and making them oddly sexual is fucking odd. like I'll give you the d, I wish you would: that's an innuendo, that's funny and you can make that sexual cuz they did. they act like an old married couple at times. the lentils joke about their bad habits for example, it's cute and domestic. it's fic material. I understand that, trust me but like sometimes they are just on coke and giggling like little boys over like bringing bread and crumpets to the studio and that's not an allegory for fucking each other (an actual real post someone made). please it's odd and fetishism of two men who are straight. I understand that being gay is still a taboo subject for some people from more oppressive countries and maybe at 14 when you found AM, milex was your first introduction to shipping culture and men being shipped together, that would be exciting to you. However the nuances of that is that it can cross a line to a degree where you aren't respecting the two real people. I was in the Dan and Phil fandom before they came out and we had an era called 2012 where Dan especially was on the defense constantly to a point where it was a taboo to us to talk about but through time, that defense became more empathetic with them coming out. we all grew up and that behaviour from when we were kids was not ok anymore and that frustration was valid. I have many straight friends who have felt that pressure to be part of the LGBT community in order to not be shamed and on the flip side, I don't even need to tell you how hard it is still for lgbtqia people to want to hide in the closet with all the problems we still as a society have to face.

what I'm trying to say is, these are straight men and it's ok for straight men to be affectionate with their friends, I know it may still be frowned upon in some cultures but we wouldn't have am without a close bond between the lads. we wouldn't have TLSP without miles and Alex being best friends. i don't think milex is wrong, plz do what you want, draw your porn art if you want, write fics upon fics but plz just think about why this makes you so happy and understand the true consequences on what you say because you could be upsetting the gay community around you by being elated that miles can kiss his friend on the cheek. let boys love each other platonically or not, it doesn't matter. If Alex or Miles came out tomorrow, I'd support them, it's just something to think about.

Plus it's ok for teenagers and younger people to see what the boys do and want that, that's valid and I hope you have fun. There's a point where you may realise that something you said was a kid that you don't agree with and that's part of growing up, I know (hence the dnp rant). I see this now as an adult and think of that as crossing a line by prying at someone's sexuality cuz that's not mine to know and I don't know that person in real life. However if you are like a long time monkeys fan in your late 20s, early 30s, please consider what you're doing and re-evaluate what this means to you because maybe it's not just Alex and Miles that make you feel this way and that's not healthy: that's a parasocial relationship you've held for so long you don't know any different.

[bookwyrminspiration]

i’m looking for more kotlc blogs to follow and really like yours, do you have by recommendations?

Oh, that's so sweet of you! And yes, I can recommend some blogs. This list is by no means exhaustive, and I'm sure to forget some lovely individuals, but I'll do my best!

I know a lot of us have interacted for a while or been around a while, and seeing us call each other names or refer to things that happened before you were here can make you feel like an outsider, but we're very open to new people and love to support each other! So please don't let it deter you, we'd love to have you

@theunmappedstar - this is an abandoned blog, but Nattie was a cornerstone of the fandom when he was here, and at the top of his blog you can find a whole assortment of incredible fanfictions!

@silveny-dreams - Sil's rarely active these days, but she wrote several incredible fanfictions you can find at the top of her blog. Loves Grady and Edaline, and an incredibly sweet person

@everliving-everblaze - Catherine is a well-known fanfic writer and lover of sophitz! She has some incredible works and is intimately familiar with the kotlc wiki, having been its admin for a while. Highly recommend her

@lusilver001 - Lu is an absolutely phenomenal fan-artist, creating visually stunning pieces of several of the characters. They're highly celebrated for a reason!

@fintan-pyren - Fin is a chaotic but endearing presence heavily associated with Fintan Pyren (hence the username). Lots of jokes about being Fintan, about Fintan x Dimitar, and overall fun. If you like to mess around with canon, Fin's a great follow!

@synonymroll648 - Izzy's an unbelievably talented writer, commonly associated with sokeefitz! Faer very encouraging, supportive, and hard-working, everything she produces being top-notch and worth the read!

@camelspit - Roisin's a fanartist who somehow goes above and beyond with everything he creates! With a unique and easily recognizable style, she draws everything from canon to shitposts and I highly recommend checking it all out!

@flori-doodles - With an absolutely ethereal artstyle, Florida is a staple for all your fanart wants and needs! Cannot recommend his work enough, she truly brings the characters to life

@xanadaus - Tobi is a beloved fandom member responsible for several incredible events, like the Ten Years of Keeper Event we just wrapped up! He's also got a myriad of other talents to keep an eye out for on his blog

@gay-otlc - S is your go to for a bunch of queer, chaotic keeper content. He's well-known for throwing canon out the window in favor of making everything gay, which has endeared him to the fandom

There are so many other incredible people in the kotlc fandom here, so if I haven't listed you that's not because I don't love your blogs!! I'm sure I've forgotten multiple talented individuals. By following or checking out many of these people, you'll notice them interacting with others regularly and can discover more of us that way. Or, if you'd like, I can do another sweep and expand the list!

I encourage anyone who sees this to reblog it with further suggestions, which 100% includes yourself if I haven't mentioned you! I hope this gives you a good start, Nonsie! And welcome to the kotlc side of tumblr, we're thrilled to have you :)

[biblicalhorror]

Zaylor Midnights, Part I

Okay time to actually start typing things out for my beloved Zaylor/Toë Nation

First things first, please complete your essential reading on the subject.

Second, some disclaimers:

-This is just for fun. Some of it is playfully reaching for sure. You don't have to buy into it, but please keep an open mind and come along for the ride! We'd love to have you!

-I refuse to assign a specific sexuality to any of these people due to the fact that I don't know any of them personally. All I know is I just get ✨️more than friends✨️ vibes from these two. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't waste my time by being rude about it.

-My personal fan relationship to celebrities includes freely criticizing them for things they do that I don't agree with. It's fine if that's not your style, but please don't be surprised when I call someone a spineless capitalist or nepotism baby. If the shoe fits...

-Somewhat related to the above point: I'm also an Astrology Gay. That means that I may occasionally mention astrological compatibility and things of that nature. Again, if that's not your cup of tea, that's fine! You don't have to believe in it. But my personal philosophy is to weigh all of the evidence available, and I happen to know a lot about astrology, which means some of my "evidence" may come from there. So I will likely be talking about their signs a bit. If not in this post, then in future ones.

-The main goal of this post (and other Zaylor posting I may do in the future) is to diversify the perspectives in the Gaylor community. I have nothing against Karlie Kloss or Dianna Agron, but I am bored of nearly every Gaylor analysis being linked back to one of those two. I think it's time for a Zaylor Era.

That being said, let's get into it song by song, shall we?

1. Lavender Haze

Not that this is definitely true, but there has been some speculation among Gaylors for some time that Zoë is the muse for many of the love songs on Reputation and onwards. There's not much hard evidence of this, but it's worth noting that Zoë and Taylor were first seen in public together in October of 2016 (6 years + 1 week before Midnights would be released)

Taylor says this song specifically is about ignoring all the "weird" (pregnancy/engagement) rumors and just focusing on her partner of 6 years. This "partner" could be Joe. I'm not saying it's definitely not. But what if it's been Zoë this whole time?

"Staring at the ceiling with you" Zoë Kravitz, known stoner, and her boyfriend/girlfriend, baby stoner Taylor Swift:

Lavender Haze is a popular Indica strain of weed known to be very relaxing/calming but also boost creativity in regular marijuana users. Zoë is one of the officially listed writers (and backup singers) on this song. The thought of them writing a song together about being in love and also high on their favorite weed strain makes me giggle.

"I've been under scrutiny... You handle it beautifully... all this shit is new to me" >>> Zoë is a nepotism baby, very much used to fame and growing up in the music industry specifically, very much Above It All (we'll come back to this later)

Taylor was just quoted in this article talking about Zoë's strong "sense of self" and "honest inner compass" idk about you, but that certainly lends itself to theories that this above-it-all muse who doesn't seem to care at all what people think could be someone who was right under our noses this whole time.

Also note: this is for GQ's "Men of the Year" series. That + this fruity ass outfit should be noted...

"No deal... the 1950s shit they want from me/ I just wanna stay in that lavender haze"

Could easily be interpreted in a queer context, since the 1950s are famous for anti-gay propaganda such as the Lavender Scare, the prevalence of the Hays Code, etc.

Essentially, this could recontextualize this song as an act of rebellion against social norms of gender and sexuality through private, personal expressions of queer love. Given that the song doesn't explicitly say any of those things out loud, it's kind of a toothless act of rebellion, but I digress. Both of these women are exorbitantly rich, extremely famous, bad at taking criticism/admitting fault, and prone to escapism. Classic Sagittarius behavior tbh (/j)

Oh, I'm sure.

Another note from the end of that GQ article: Zoë says this about her new relationship with Channing Tatum (rumored to be PR as they are costars in an upcoming movie):

Interesting wording here.

This song is about being a Sag 4 Sag lesbian stoner couple. Moving on.

2. Maroon

This song is likely about Lily or Karlie, could have some ties to Dianna, but probably not about Zoë so all I will say is:

She for sure burns incense/owns a vinyl shelf. Look at her.

3. Anti-Hero

Not a romantic song per se, but lends to the Lover coming out theory:

"Did you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruism" w the visual of covering up a lavender glitter bleeding heart with a political pin... cmon

Also, Catwoman (recently played by Zoë) is an extremely famous example of an antihero. Taylor uses a lot of Batman/Catwoman callouts in this album, in the song titles specifically.

4. Snow on the Beach

"I saw flecks of what could've been but it might just have been you passing by unbeknownst to me"

Again, Toë hung out in public for the first time at the Bowery in 2016 in a big group of friends. This song describes the feeling of having a crush on someone you thought couldn't possibly be reciprocated but it turns out huh!! They like you too!! Beyond how gay that situation is already, Verified Cool Girl Zoë Kravitz absolutely could have come across particularly aloof in their first few meetings. Her name (and reputation/public image) is all about being a Cool Girl. This song could be about Taylor being shocked that someone as cool as Zoë could actually like her back.

"My flight was awful, thanks for asking, I'm unglued thanks to you" parallels with the Gold Rush line "Falling feels like flying till the bone crush". It's happened. Taylor fell for her, and feels like a mess because of the feelings this has brought up.

A note from the gospel power point:

"I searched aurora borealis green, I've never seen someone lit from within, blurring out my periphery" as in. She searched for the green light. The go-ahead. In the eyes of her crush, she's desperately searching for validation that what she feels is reciprocated. She seems to find what shes looking for, and describes her love interest as glowing from within. My girl loves a Great Gatsby reference. (As an aside: this is one of my favorite lines on the whole album. It's so vivid. Gives me chills every time.)

The six-year muse is often referred to with star/shooting star motifs ("Starry eyes sparkin' up my darkest night," "Eyes full of stars," "Stars in your eyes shined brighter in Tupelo," "Do I really have to chart the constellations in his eyes," etc.) Zoë has at least 6 star tattoos in various placements on her body (not to mention at least 3 different snakes, one of which is coiled around a heart)

"Stars by the pocketful" could be a reference to the star tattoos on Zoë's hands being in Taylor's pockets as they cuddle for warmth in the snow. (I'm aware the snow in this song is likely metaphorical, but how cute is that mental image?)

5. You're On Your Own, Kid

Again, not a romantic song. Also not (particularly) gay, so we'll skip this one for now.

6. Midnight Rain

A song that could very well be about comphet and mourning for the easy life that you could have as a heterosexual. But lots of people have talked about this already and it is not particularly relevant to Toë/Zaylor, so I won't waste too much time on it.

7. Question...?

Gay. Probably not about Zoë though. This song seems very retrospective, like she lost the person she's describing. These two seem like they're still very close, so it's unlikely this song has anything to do with Zoë.

-----

That's all Tumblr mobile will let me fit into one post, so we're gonna have to take an intermission there!

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 (Coming Soon)

[bandzboy]

Seeing the amount of hate she gets just for dating, aka a normal thing lots of people (even celebrities) do makes me so sad. I haven't seen this amount of hate in a while. I'm sorry for them because I don't want random people online to ruin what could be a beautiful relationship. I get people being surprised because they don't know what's happening in their faves' lives (and let's keep it that way) but I've seen some of the worst reactions ever when coming across an article confirm the dating news </3 Being a kpop for more than a decade, I can tell you many couples have broken up due to all the hate thrown at them. I'm just sad because these are people we're talking about. People with feelings. People who deserve happiness and love. What makes me sad is those are the same people who would bend backwards to defend their fave's cr*mes. But apparently, dating is where they draw the line...

it was genuinely wild 😭 i mean most of the things i've seen abt her dating was mostly people on twt saying they felt "betrayed" bc they projected onto her the fact that she is gay (even tho if she is that's none of our business) but yeah it's very obvious when these things come out it's usually the woman that gets the most shit for no reason! at the end of the day, this is something that should be normal for idols to do because they are humans with feelings and i honestly hate how companies still have the "dating ban" thing which is so stupid especially since these idols start so young and should have normal experiences like dating (if they want to ofc) like that should be something normal and not something they are demonized for and i think, the way these companies think, other than the fact that yes, they are sorta presented to us like they are our boyfriends and girlfriends, i think they see it as something that is gonna distract them and honestly it could be beneficial to have that in their lives regardless bc that's normal and human to want to be loved and these idols are not gonna date us it's not gonna happen and i wish people stopped thinking this fr! that's why when these news come out i support them 100%! if that person makes my fav happy i will support it at all times! but yeah when it comes to sm, it's so insane how they are debuting this man who has sa accusations and acting like nothing is happening while we don't know when seunghan is coming back we have absolutely no clue and once again he is on hiatus for dating predebut which is wild to me like god forbid he had a gf before he debuted god forbid he is human ??? and so as of late, i can't take sm seriously not that i have before but this is honestly wild to me how all of these situations are happening at the same time and are being treated SO different it's quite offputting to see it as a fan of both seunghan and karina

[sparkliingdust]

I don't understand why we're not supporting more real LGBTQ+ artists instead of Taylor Swift

I'm just shouting into the void at this point, but like - I've never been a die-hard Gaylor. I'm just queer and heard her lyrics through that lens, and gave a hard side-eye to the countless references she's made to Karlie Kloss through her wardrobes, which to me on some level is not healthy on Taylor's part.

I get that a lot of Gaylors, like many straight Taylor fans, take things too far (it's okay to AI Taylor and Travis with a wedding and babies, the constant wedding rumors with every boyfriend, etc. but not to think about Taylor as remotely queer but I digress)...but for most of us, we're just "normal" people who like Taylor's storytelling through her songwriting and there are legitimate analytical conclusions we can make about queer-coding.

After a year of articles hitting out about the ~~~~LGBTQ+'s obsession with Taylor's sexuality~~~~, Taylor's hollow allyship with our community since Lover, telling us not to think about Betty being gay/queer in our own interpretations, and the recent backlash about the NYT article...I could write a long bullet point list of things that we all should've questioned and side-eyed this whole time but whatevs.

I just wander when is the Gaylor part of the community going to take our energy and put towards real LGBTQ+ artists who are taking huge risks and need support celebrating all of us. Sam Smith? Girl in Red? Janelle Moane? Kim Petras? Lil Nas X? King Princess? etc.

I was a major Swiftie - went to the eras tour, saw the movie, and I won't regret how much I love her music. But I'm tired of listening to her music without inevitably and inadvertently thinking about the global impact of how it effects Taylor Swift ™ and her whole universe...when we're the part of the community that is used as a shield for other distractions (the Golden Globes gossip, her hiding the Mahomes family from the lawsuit being dropped, etc). I'm taking a big step back from the pyramid scheme that is her brand and just enjoy her music for what it is (again, even though most of us were already doing that), and put more energy into other artists, and for fucks' sakes, my own life.

Why do we - as a world - constantly feel like she is a victim who needs to be saved, defended, safeguarded? Why can't we say we don't like one of her songs without a million people jumping in to vindicate her or we have to prepare why we don't like something with a novel about how much we are actually a real fan? Like this is not normal parasocial attitude even if you are the most casual fan of Taylor Swift, we have to recognize even this kind of behavior is rampant in our fandom whether you are LGBTQ+ or straight.

She is a 34 year old billionaire, and we need to stop thinking of her as the young girl who was wronged during the VMAs or the country girl "who just got lucky" with her songwriting and her dad just "happened to invest" in a music label. And, let her make mistakes and live life and maybe be an artist with some real risks to take and not constantly give her all our attention, energy, money.

[wellofdean]

Here’s a YouTube video of Jensen answering a Destiel question at a convention in 2017, and the comments are an interesting trip down memory lane -

https://youtu.be/bqFGmfZ50pI

This is a reply to this post: and Ok, so this is actually a funny answer of Jensen's, because first he says it doesn't exist, and then that Dean doesn't have a crush on Dr. Sexy, and that he's just a "fan of the show" and then adds "a closeted fan of the show". And, I'm sorry, but the Dr. Sexy thing is so intentionally gay, and I have to assume that he knows that because whatever else we can say about him, Jensen is a pretty skilled actor, and it's pretty difficult to explain that performance without acknowledging that. So, if Dean is closeted, then he would probably say he's just a fan of the show, and Destiel doesn't exist, which Dean did in fact say in not so many words when he was actually confronted with it explicitly in the musical episode. Perhaps "it doesn't exist" is Dean's feeling because Dean can't let it exist. After all, Dean's entire emotional life is pretty closeted, even the not-queer part.

The people celebrating in the comments seem to have heard what they wanted to hear, but to me it seems like a lot of Jensen's answers that I've heard (and admittedly, I have not heard many!) including this one, are simply very unwilling to commit to one version of the story. I know that's frustrating for people who want a particular answer, and it's stupid that we have all lived for a long time in a heteronormative world where one interpretation requires confirmation and the other is supposedly a no-brainer, but to some extent, I respect his apparent desire not to spell it out.

It almost always ruins it for me when artists talk too explicitly about what their work is doing, or tell you what to think about it. I appreciate it that he refuses to define it for the audience. And, at the end of the day, I feel like it speaks pretty eloquently for itself, and my conclusions about Destiel are very grounded in the material, so...

[alarrytale]

Hi Marte. I'm a Larrie first but I also follow other musicians, actors and pop culture accounts. I am seeing more and more musicians and actors try to appeal to the lgbtq+ community, whether they're queerbaiting or they're closeted and feel more comfortable expressing themselves as it is more accepting now. More celebrities are experimenting with sexuality and gender. There are more songs and music vids hinting at same sex attraction. Times are definitely changing, albeit very slowly. It just makes me realize how out of touch Louis and Harry's images are. That Louis is pushing this straight homophobic image and Harry is pushing this image that he goes from woman to woman, when it seems like 'boring straight people' are going out of fashion a bit. They're not idolized quite as much as before. There are far more interesting people to follow. I can only speak for what I see online but I see lots of people wanting more queer representation and wanting to give their support to out queer celebrities. I even saw a viral thread about what people can do to encourage celebrities to CO, basically by supporting out people and show that they can still be successful. I see lots of people hoping their idol is queer. The toxic straight people who are homophobic or wants their idol to be straight so they can project heterosexual fantasies on them... they tend to be a lot more vocal and aggressive so it seems like they are huge in number. But I think that at this point anyone who does CO it won't damage their career because there are also straight people wanting to follow someone interesting, and queer people tend to be interesting. I mean, if there are straight women still having sexual fantasies about J Bailey, like you said, then it shows that a gay man can be popular with straight women. Sadly most celebrities are still closeted. Do you think we'll see more celebrities CO during their career or are they likely to wait until the end of their career? How long do you think it'll be until we get progress?

Hi, anon!

I don't think it's as simple as you make it seem. As i've said before, i think queer artists will be fine if they manage to stay relatable to the majority het female fanbase, while being queer. Young people and people with loyal fans will be fine too. J. Bailey is straight passing and that helps him. Het females can more easily ignore he's gay and keep living out their fantasy. I think more stereotypically gay men, and very buch lesbians will have a harder time. Elton, Freddie and George are all straight passing and i think that helped them.

H and L's images are old fashioned and outdated. It's holding them back more than it's helping them at this point. Louis' at least.

I do think we'll see more celebrities coming out, at least among the younger generations. The more celebrities come out and prove they can still be successful, or even more so (like Billie), the more others will learn from them and be bold enough to take the step themselves. We are progressing all the time, it's just slow (glacial pace), but if we look back we've come a long way just in a few years. There's never been so many out celebrities and artists as there are now. If a couple more big names come out (if you read cdan today you know who might be next), then i think the ball would be really rolling.

[pompadorbz]

How popular do you think kiyotaka is or could have been. Cause I think about how he got top 10 in the character poll and then got 4th place on some poll question gay people which fictional character they would date. And just how popular/liked do you think taka is but due to the stigma around his family it's just not know.

That's a tough question! Just a warning that I' ll likely get heavily sidetracked here! But I think it would all come down to how his character is portrayed, both by the fandom and by DR itself. If things were to be altered and he became a survivor for example, that could probably completely change how liked he is by the fandom, especially considering he's already fairly well loved despite him not making it past chapter three. In the actual universe of DR... I don't think it's hard to find someone that doesn't like the guy. He's kinda got a bullseye painted on his back for people who do know who he is, and for people who don't. He says himself that because of how he is, he never really forms social connections (it's the tism). But I think that it would make Mondo befriending him, as well as just class 78 in general feel all the more special to him. I think he went into Hope's peak with no expectations, so when people were just genuinely nice to him from the get-go, I think it would've been SUCH tonal whiplash. I don't actually think that Mondo was his first friend in hope's peak! He was in the killing game, and I think that's because they became so close BEFORE then that the memory kinda managed to squeeze its way through completely subconsciously. I personally like the idea that his first actual friend was Sayaka! This is a shameless hc that comes ENTIRELY from her calling him nice in that relationship chart. It's also generally really funny to me because from a glance- like with mondo, they have practically NOTHING in common. But I think that Taka would be very quick to recognize and respect Sayaka and the work that goes into her profession. Here's a fun fact for you! At the very beginning of the game, we learn that there are online forums about hope's peak! Additionally through some introductions, we learn that many of these characters, including the ones that aren't outright famous, have fanbases! How odd! How creepy! I think that Taka's in-universe "fanbase" fucking SUCKS. It's not a fanbase as much as it is a cult following of people that obsessively hate-watch everything he does like you see with a lot of celebrities online. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have an online presence or celebrity status. If there's a will, there's a way, and they will not stop at finding a way. I think that sometime after Taka graduates, more specifically after a certain event that I'm yet to talk about in depth, Taka's fandom resurfaces. The old hatewatchers have mostly fizzled out, and now? NOW he is what one might call BASED. But among these fans there's a fairly large portion of people who are aware of what he went through for about 75% of his life, and use it to justify treating him like a child who doesn't know anything! They talk about him like a cuss word would kill him, or like he is completely unaware and oblivious to the concept of sex and how it's done. Now where have I heard that one before? Like I thought, this got INCREDIBLY sidetracked, but I wanted to try and cover a ton of ground, especially since I've been so late to all these asks lately. Sorry about that!