#which is absolutely flawed and isn't a 1:1 adaptation

[expensivemistake]

The thing about Chip Zdarsky's daredevil run is that it takes inspiration from the Netflix show and forces that into the comic continuity, but it doesn't even lean into the elements I personally love about Netflix Matt?

He's not perfect, but NMCU Matt at his best is shown to be deeply compassionate and has such a rather warm demeanour to him. When he's happy (especially in college-aged flashbacks) he's really expressive. Women like him because he comes across as thoughtful, rather than being a womaniser. And there's no question as to whether he loves Elektra or not, considering he spends most of the Defenders trying to get through to her.

Not to mention that his Catholicism is deeply personal and certainly not devout. He's a person who grew up around religion and is uniquely attuned to the suffering around him, trying to work out his place in being a man of the people.

None of these traits are inherently better than 616 comic Matt, or even drastically different (although I do think they're fundamentally different characters who I like for different reasons).

But I guess my point is that... it feels like Zdarsky's Matt is based mostly off the "he's an emo Catholic who dresses like a devil to let out his anger and also sleeps with loads of women" jokes based on people's perceptions of Netflix Matt, without adapting a lot of the likeability and nuance that made me like him in the first place.

[queenvhagar]

2 1/2 years of seeing posts, listening to podcasts, and watching reaction channels practically salivate over any and every misfortune that the Greens (particularly Alicent) could suffer through whatever ludicrous "karmic comeuppance" they perceived, only for it to happen within the text of the show come Season 2 was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Watching Alicent Hightower beg for Rhaenyra Targaryen's mercy (a thing they seemingly if not accidentally foreshadowed in 1.05), while abandoning every male association of hers because of some misguided attempt at Feminism™️from these writers and showrunners, thereby validating every single atrocious thing the Team Black fundamentalists have said about her character, truly makes me disgusted.

It's so visceral to see a "professional" television production team stumble their way into confirming their own biases (accidental or otherwise) and then some for a section of the fanbase that goes out of their way to harass others who enjoy characters either on the opposite side of the conflict and/or even the actors themselves!

Condal & Hess have turned what is ostensibly a medieval political thriller rooted heavily in Gray and Grey Morality, into a Black and White Morality tale that is only interested in appealing to the idea of progressivism but stifling any degree of complexity to all the characters, because they're obsessed with making the female protagonists "likeable" to an audience, so that they aren't accused of the same immature and volatile environment that Benioff & Weiss cultivated behind the scenes during their "leadership" of Game of Thrones.

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself. This isn't simply about enjoying Team Green, but their position within the narrative that the television adaptation has made is emblematic of a larger issue. The rampant media illiteracy and anti-intellectualism permeating art (if not simply entertainment) has led to a fundamental and belligerent misunderstanding of characters. Audiences nowadays cannot fathom others liking characters that aren't aligned with the protagonist and their centered morality, especially if those characters range from being textually "bad" to just "ambiguous" or "conflicted" within the narrative.

It feels like there has been no room for intellectual debate among the majority since House of the Dragon started airing because audiences (consumers, I should say) at large don't seem to want a complex and tragic tale showcasing the flaws inherent to feudalism and monarchy which are the main themes of the source material, but simply a cool wish-fulfillment fantasy a la "tits and dragons" without any of the substance that made A Song of Ice and Fire so interesting and impactful. Seven hells if you try and offer any disagreement with these people. If this is the environment (read: echo chamber) that Condal & Hess are building, then count me out.

Absolutely this.

Unfortunately media is reflecting larger trends towards anti-intellectualism and media illiteracy, all heightened by social media and internet echo chambers. There's also something to be said about this trend towards purity culture/politics in media wherein creators and those who consume the media are quick to label something as not being progressive enough, or at least performatively progressive enough, which results in media relying on these caracturized versions of character archetypes in order to not portray something problematic and ironically results in stories that are inauthentic, rely at times on harmful stereotypes to tell their tale, and remove ambiguities and complexities from the narrative. Unfortunately, media makers like HBO don't trust their audience to have critical thinking, and unfortunately, the general audience reinforces it with their interpretation of what's presented.

It comes down to where we're at socially and politically, and there's also a large economic component: what sells the best to the most people is a more generic, easily digestible story, in most cases good vs evil with the insertion of certain qualities like good CGI or witty humor/one liners that can be taken from the show and used in marketing/social media reactions/the like.

This is what's happened to HOTD season 2 in a nutshell, but it's not the only franchise to suffer from such things.

[silviakundera]

Does it feel like they're trying to redeem the dickless bore? idk if he's doing a con on her or they're showing he has real feelings for her wasn't the novel different?

One thing I'm really noticing in the Princess Royal (Grand Princess) adaption is that they will 'play it straight' with characters like Su Rongqing and the Emperor: giving the character similar dialogue and facial expressions as they would have in the novel -- except without PWX or LR's internal dialogue of 🙄 why u lying???

🙄 lol ok sure

😒 oh i see, back on your bullshit again

😤 the AUDACITY

😬 oh shit oh shit danger BE COOL

The consequence is that if you take everything at face value, the Emperor seems like a reasonable guy and not up for The Absolute Worst Dad award. Under the surface, the novel reader knows he is acting out a play and coldly calculating every interaction with Li Rong, the Crown Prince, and Consort Ruo. Every single scene with him, Li Rong is in peril and she knows it. She's pretending to be his sweet, obedient 19 year old daughter who believes in him and is following Pei Wenxuan's direction and acting as a puppet, making moves that he has already approved PWX to make. The Emperor's pretending that this play isn't supposed to end with LR and the Crown Prince taken down & the power transferred into Consort Ruo and the other prince's hands.

The viewer can just interpret all the words coming out of a character's mouth as facts & just believe everything they claim about their motives/real agenda as true. Or they recall the implied horrorshow of Life 1 and view all of these interactions with a cynical eye, questioning what else could be under the surface.

With SRQ, that guy is so fucking complicated. I think actually he's portrayed in character. Nothing we have seen isn't .... him. At least so far, as of ep 19 he aligns with the novel.

But 3 different factors: A) The music is romantizing him; B) The audience is given a couple internal-thought voice overs from him, which other antagonists don't get; C) With those voice-overs, the screenwriter has chosen to affirm his love for his brother and LR way earlier than the reader has it confirmed in the novel (where he is intentionally kept a total mystery for far longer, while the reader is the math lady meme, trying to piece together clues to figure him out).

And ultimately, when in SRQ's PoV in the drama, we have to deal with him being the hero of his own story. He is absolutely sincere about himself and, as has been revealed, in his own way he's sincere about wanting LR and his brother to have a good life this time around.

So does that mean the writer intends to do a swerve in the narrative arc and redeem him in the end? It's totally possible. Maybe?

However, not necessarily.

#1 There is a certain refrain from many of the great cnovel/drama villians: I had no choice! You all forced me to this!

We saw it from Shen Yurong in The Double, we saw it from Meng Yao/JGY in The Untamed, and in the novel (and I presume in the drama), we're gonna see it from Su Rongqing.

And it's the reason why they become villians who can't be saved. Because so many people suffer in life or experience unfairness. But they don't turn around and use this as an excuse to enact horrible cruelties on others.

Out of the billions of people in the world, few have no problems but so many of them actively chose to do good, or are willing at least to turn back and be better.

#2 imo the reason LR has historically been bad at reading people's hearts but has an exquisite read of SRQ, his flaws & darkness, is THAT'S HER FUCKING MOM. And I do think ep 16-18 put that out there in the text, if you're looking for it. He and the empress are the same sophisticated aristocrat who is clever & educated but with a narrow perspective limited by their privilege and desperate need to maintain the status quo. So sorry bro, but no wonder she might have settled for marrying you in the first life if you wanted to, but she was never gonna fall in love with you 💀.

PWX can see that SRQ loves her and he thinks that matters, so it scares him. LR has tender nostalgia for her empress mother and her former companion but she's all too aware that their love for her will not necessarily get in the way of stepping on her to protect the social structure of a powerful aristocracy class operating at a higher level above the peasants and restraining the throne. To them, this is safety and stability that guards the realm.

(ofc both those characters are complex and when it comes to LR's life & death we can't be confident on what they will always choose. that's part of what made all the palace drama aspects of the novel incredibly suspenseful. So many of the suppporting characters are layered and tho everything they do makes sense when it happens, you can't often predict people's hard choices when their back is up against the wall)

Story of Kunning Palace and The Grand Princess say that caring about people and trying your best to understand them, wanting what's best for them by listening to what's best for them, can make a huge difference. But not everyone is willing to change.

[tulipsinthedas]

Just finished binging the Fallout tv show and 🤯 I've got so many thoughts running through this little brain of mine. So here's a very long rant no one asked for. Maybe I'll make a more digestible version later. Obviously SPOILERS AHEAD!!! Be warned!

First off - the lore. So many interesting things were added into the lore by this show that I find so fascinating, as well as theories I've had that were touched upon. All of which makes this very exciting but also leaves me DESPERATE for season two. The main thing that has really stuck with me is the confirmation that Vault-Tec were the ones to drop the bombs like hello??? I've always had an inkling ever since I started delving into fallout lore a good year or two ago that they were behind everything, but finally having it confirmed is so fun. Of course, some people out there are going to be irritated (L take) but this imo will make replays so much more interesting. Same with the addition of ghouls needing medication to keep from becoming feral. Although this begs some questions; what is the medicine? Is it just radaway, or something else entirely? Maybe it's connected to whatever Hancock used to ghoulify himself? Or maybe it's connected to Doctor Barrows' research into ghouls fom Fallout 3? Idk! But I hope it's answered in season 2.

Cooper being the inspiration behind the iconic vault boy mascot absolutely gagged me. It was kinda hinted at even in the beginning at the kids birthday party but I was still surprised. Pleasantly, of course. Other smaller things, like the BOS branding and helmets opening up, among other things, were also fun touches that develop the lore in ways that the games probably never would have. It's small things like this that despite livening up the wasteland, would be unnecessary uses of resources from a game-development standpoint. So I think if season 2 ends up being a banger like season 1, we could see a lot more tiny additions to the lore like this!

Secondly - the characters. I don't even know where to start. They were written so well which is such a critical part of a good series. Lucy, despite everything she goes through, stays true to her morals and by doing so, probably unknowingly, is changing those around her. Despite being stubborn, she's willing to listen and understand other viewpoints and adapt herself. It's so refreshing to see a main female lead who isn't written as either weak and naive or strong and boneheaded; she's a perfect mix of both. I also appreciate them not making her a total push over, even in the beginning before she is given any reason to change. She grows, but never fails to stay true to herself. Plus the whole sex positive thing is an amazing touch to add as well, especially for a woman.

And while on this topic, Maximus is such a cutie pie. Writing characters that are selflessly aligned can definitely be a hit or miss, and without properly being fleshed out, can be one-dimensional, but I never felt that way with him. Despite trying to help others and be a good person, he still has flaws and does selfish things. They took the trope of the knight in shining armor, literally, and gave him actual human characteristics that made him feel real. Underneath his heroic demeanor, he's just a little guy who likes slippers and vault popcorn. Who just wants to be somewhere safe away from war and danger, to be where he can just relax and not have to worry. And his romance arc with Lucy is just way too cute. From the moment they met in Filly I knew something was going to happen and I was so excited when they finally kissed lmao. The sweet, innocent love at first sight thing they have going on is the perfect dichotomy to all the bloodshed and heavy themes going on in the rest of the show.

And finally, Cooper is reviving the inner ghoul lover in me and I cannot complain at all. As a certified Hancock lover, I feel seen ✋ also Walton Goggins is just incredibly fine. But that's besides the point. His character is arguably the best written because despite being an undeniably evil person, he is still likeable. 200 years have turned him into a man who had to lose his humanity to survive, and the pre-war flashbacks being shown through his eyes give him, and the story, so much depth. Despite his ways, you can't help but still feel for him, to still root for him and hope that he still has a little bit of that humanity left within him. Which imo was shown multiple times; for example him not killing Maximus in episode two even though he easily could have done so. And the fact that he's still searching for his family all these years later? When he was asked what has been keeping him going so long, I think they are his reason. Whether he is searching to reunite or to exact revenge on Barb for dropping the bombs while him and Janey were outside idk. But it makes his story all the more heartbreaking. I also love the writing for Norm, Moldaver, Dane, and so many others, but this is already too long as it is.

Overall, this series was so good and I'll be impatiently awaiting season 2! Some things I'm hoping to see next seasons are super mutants for sure, as well as synths and more of the enclave. I think they went easy this season to test the waters and see just how interested people are. And now that they know people are very interested, I think they'll be more willing to invest a larger budget, and add more. Rant over!

[llamadramasims]

My wife introduced me to Avatar : The Last Airbender about 2 years ago and I absolutely loved it. Naturally I was really excited for the live action especially after seeing the care and thought that went into the production.

Now, I've only watched episode 1 and I have to say... acting is great (with some flaws here and there on the younger cast as expected) sets are stunning and vfx are actually pretty good which is saying something these days.

My problem with it? Pacing...! Everything has to be rushed because we only have 8 episodes and we have to cram it all in there. Why?! Tv series used to be the chosen form when telling long stories - you had 20 episodes to explain, show, make us care about these characters and their journey. Now it's "here's the main guy, ain't he cool? let's go" and I for one am done with that. Even in a show like Avatar, where I already know the story, it really isn't welcome.

Earlier Percy Jackson suffered from the same problem. I love the books and was really looking forward to a good adaptation only to have a ridiculous amount of exposition thrown at me while the actors struggle to deliver lines in one breath.

I don't need (nor want) word for word adaptations. A book or an animated show are very different from a tv series or a movie. They should be adapted accordingly. But when you have 6 or 8 episodes to tell a story previously told on 20 episodes (or 400 pages) not only are you leaving a bunch of stuff out, you're also stopping us from connecting to the characters, from caring for them and from setting the right pace to properly tell a story.

But that's just me...

[orangepanic]

Why is General Iroh a general? Isn't he baby?

If I headcanon General Iroh as early 20s in LOK book 1, how can he be a general without extreme nepotism? An explanation by request.

The short answer is: he got very lucky

The long answer is:

I adjust the starting age for the United Forces from 18 like it is in the U.S. down to 17. Iroh joins on his birthday. Since I headcanon he turns 24 just after the action in B1 that gives him about seven years.

His extensive training as a firebender, hard work, and natural inclinations for organization and strategy put him at the top of his officer's class, which lead to more responsibility early and harder assignments. Could some of this also be nepotism? Sure. But I also think that Iroh, with the burden of his name and the constant worry that he'll never live up to Zuko, works his absolute ass off.

The United Forces is considerably smaller than any of the U.S. armed forces, which means fewer levels to climb and less competition.

Adapting some of the headcanons of the ever helpful expert @the-hopefulpenguin in An Overview of the United Forces, I use the idea that the United Forces had some controversies and growing pains that led to the mass resignation of a lot of the top brass at a critical time. This massive vacuum of leadership cleared the path for talented younger officers.

Based on what we see in the show, I also think Iroh did some very brave things in a few sticky situations that resulted in fast-tracking his promotions. In the show for the little we see him he's usually out front, drawing fire from the crow's nest or jumping on planes or planning training exercises to thwart Unalaq or standing toe-to-toe with Kuvira, whatever he's commanded to do after. He's a do-what-it-takes kind of guy - a pattern of behavior that probably got him noticed. In the above fic, for example, there's an engagement referenced where Iroh pulls off a win after all the other ranking officers are out of action.

Iroh has an... interesting... relationship with authority. He's never outwardly insubordinate, but he sure seems to think highly of his own strategies and will bend the rules considerably unless given a direct order to the contrary. I think it's possible he might have been promoted at least once to get him out of someone's hair because it was easier than trying to document a flaw in his record.

When we meet him he's a brand new general and hasn't held the title for more than six months. Yue Bay is his first major engagement as general.

[meraki-yao]

Omg I don’t like the live adaptions for Disney movies across the board so I just didn’t want to watch the little mermaid and I was so worried people would think it was because of racism! I’m sure she was great in the role and I absolutely did not care that they cast a black woman in the role but I wasn’t going to watch the movie for a million other reasons! None of them having to do with Halle! (Sorry Halle!)

I... I can freaking write an essay on my opinions on live-action Disney remakes. The only one I see of any actual value, which ended up becoming one of my all-time favourite movies, is 2015 Cinderella. It wasn't a one-to-one remake of the original, the costume and cinematography actually looked like a fairy tale book. It also improved upon the flaws of the original, namely giving the Prince a clear personality and backstory, giving Ella and Kit a chance to connect before the ball, cutting down the animal bits, giving Lady Tremaine an understandable yet logical reason for her behaviour, and give Ella a stronger, clearer character as well. It might as well be a new Cinderella movie, separate from the 1950 animated one.

The rest have a lot of flaws and do not add much to the original story while actively diminishing certain messages in the original.

(Spoilers for live-action remakes of Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King and The Little Mermaid, also I went on a rant again lmao)

In Beauty and the Beast 2017, Gaston is painted more sympathetically as he actually helped Maurice, and Belle comes off as arrogant and impolite. Instead of the library being a gift from the Beast to Belle which was a monumental change in their relationship, the library was just Beast judging Belle's taste in books and showing off how well-read he is. It isn't endearing.

In Lion King 2019 (holy shit I'm mad at this one, I mentioned this before but I was such a Lion King fangirl when I was younger) they removed Be Prepared, one of the best Disney Villain songs ever, and took away the menacing factor of Scar. Scar bitch slaps Mufasa and “Long Live the King” was more or less shouted, which just takes away the horror of the sudden, quiet betrayal of the original whispered "Long Live the King" and killing Mufasa by letting go and having him fall to his death. Daylight was present throughout the entire "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" scene. Mufasa didn't appear as this almost religious, God-like figure in the clouds, it was just the clouds because of realism, and that makes the scene so much weaker because there's not a figure to visualize. The CGI was so focused on getting the anatomy right that they completely forgot how animals emote (animals can be extremely expressive) so all of them appear expressionless

In The Little Mermaid 2023, the musical numbers were arranged and filmed/edited in a way that takes away the charm of the original. For example, in "Under the Sea", during the bridge where Sebastian ticks off a list of different sea creatures performing, instead of showing said sea creatures during each line like the lyrics intend, it just shows random stuff randomly. They added an instrumental break that slowed down the song's momentum and didn't rebuild it. And why is Ariel singing Under the Sea when she's trying to leave the sea??? Also, I usually love Lin Manuel Miranda's songs, big fan of In the Heights, Hamilton, and the music of both Moana and Encanto, but the new songs he wrote for the movie didn't add anything, and actually dragged the movie in places that should have been quicker, like Scuttle butt. The reason Triton came to terms with Ariel's longing for the land and gave her legs in the end is because he saw Eric kill Ursala for Ariel, which disproved his original opinions of humans being selfish, dangerous creatures. In the remake, 1, Triton straight up died when Ursala took his trident, so he didn't see the final battle at all 2, Ariel, a mermaid who has never been on a ship's deck before, heck from the movie I don't she even saw a functioning steering wheel, somehow managed to accurately steer a ship, in the middle of a storm and a giant whirlpool, while having no legs, that's not reasonable 3, even if Triton was there to watch, Eric didn't do shit in the final battle and was basically useless, so why would Triton change his mind? The whole point of Triton's trajectory in the original was him getting over his prejudice towards humans and learning to understand Ariel's perspective. That entire arc was rushed and more or less gone in the remake. And see how none of the issues I mentioned above have to do with casting Halle? It's entirely about the storytelling and the musical arrangements

Ok I did not mean to make this so long, I got carried away lol can you tell I'm passionate about the subject

Someday I think I'll write proper Disney essays

Tagging two of my Disney friends/mutual cuz I kinda wanna hear your opinions: @pippin-katz @lfg1986-2

[ablatheringblatherskite]

1, 8, 16? 😁 (for the movie/tv asks)

HEY IM SO SORRY I'M SO LATE WDHWHKJWHWD. There was so much happening lately and I haven't had the time to actually write out a thought out post 😭 but I'm finally here!! Let's do this!!

1.What’s the most depressing movie you’ve ever watched?

This is kind of hard because I haven't watched REALLY depressing films lol?? But one of the more depressing films I've watched was Breathe (the one starring Andrew Garfield and Claire Foy). It's about how Robin Cavendish was struck by polio and his life afterwards, and how his and his wife's relationship was affected by it. It really does sound depressing when I summarize it like that, but it's actually really hopeful and most especially triumphant, which I loved. An absolutely beautiful film btw, which I HIGHLY recommend (I can send you a copy if you want to watch it and are having trouble finding it!).

But yeah, that's probably one of the more depressing films I've watched so far. I'm sure there are others, but I can't actually remember them right now smh

8. Which book would you like to see adapted into a film/TV Show?

You know, one of my favorite book series, Wings of Fire by Tui T. Sutherland, was actually supposed to become a Netflix series. AND THEY CANCELLED IT. So I'd really like it if they would pick that up again. I'd also love to see a show adaptation of the Zodiac Legacy by Stan Lee! It'd be EPIC. I'd also love to see a short film of Once Upon A Time In The North by Philip Pullman so I could see Lin-Manuel Miranda play that version of Lee Scoresby! I did enjoy his portrayal of Lee in the His Dark Materials series, but I really wanna see him play a version of Lee that fits his style of Lee better! It'd be a lot of fun, and I could never say no to more Lee Scoresby! I also think a Studio Ghibli adaptation of Furthermore by Tahereh Mafi, and a Laika Studios adaptation of The Wonderling by Mira Bartok would be absolutely gorgeous!

16. A film/TV Show you love but everyone else hates?

Oh okay this is good, because I'm kind of known in my circle as someone who's really forgiving towards films and series that aren't that good. It's not that I can't tell it isn't that good, or that I can't see its flaws, it's just that I generally know how to enjoy it despite that. Because that's how I like to enjoy things!!

Anyway some movies that a lot of people hated that I absolutely loved actually is Andrew Garfield's The Amazing Spider-Man duology. Yes, I know it isn't perfect, but things don't have to be perfect for you to love them anyway!!! I love those films!! He's my favorite Spider-Man and everything 😭 yes I DID watch both the Sam Raimi and MCU Spider-Man films too, but there's just something about The Amazing Spider-Man that I really love. BESIDES how cute Andrew Garfield is in it :>>>

Anyway thank you so much for sending this ask and I'm sorry again for answering it so late!! I really appreciated it and I hope it doesn't make you not wanna send asks again in the future 😭

If anyone else wants to send me some film/tv asks, feel free!!!

[gamer-comix]

i am going to have an aneurysm

(please note I don't mean any of this in a rude way and I apologize if it comes off as such 😭😭)

Hi yes in one of your little comics abt mekakucity actors (love your comics btw) you mentioned that you thought you might have been watching the series out of order and you're absolutely correct unfortunately

The anime most definitely is NOT a good place to start with the series considering that it is, to put it simply, pretty shit and has horrible pacing, along with the fact that the story had to be condensed into 12 episodes so it fails to explain a lot of things that were expanded upon in the novels & manga. The anime basically assumes you've already read both of the above & watched the songs which is fine ig but is not good for new viewers in the slightest

All I'm saying is plspls don't judge the series in its entirety too harshly based on the anime, 86% of the kagepro fandom has a deep hatred for the anime and I'm fairly certain that Jin, the creator the the series, has stated himself that the anime isn't actually canon (don't remember if I have a source for this). While the series definitely has its flaws (the weird time skipping shit that you saw in episode 1&2 occurs in the novels too with 0 explanation, and continues throughout the whole anime!! Hooray) it's actually really interesting once you have proper context for everything so if you find that you like the story by the end but didn't really understand it too well, highly recommend the novels or the manga (as well as the songs!! The songs aren't as straightforward in telling the story but they're definitely very cool)

Apologies for the long wall of text that probably doesn't make much sense it is currently 2 in the morning and I am running off of a pack of goldfish and a brownie

(and oh my god. Episode 9. I REALLY hope you aren't watching the original tv aired version because oh no.)

oh i know it's just the adaptation itself that's bad. there's an interesting story in here, it's just that shaft adapted it in the absolute worst way possible

to give a little peek behind the curtain, i've actually read the first couple chapters of the manga and was pleasantly surprised at how it actually told a story instead of just going through the motions of one while headtilting. meanwhile im five episodes into the anime and Guy C's name has only been shown to us in 1.5 seconds of stylized, onscreen katakana text that even someone fluent would have trouble reading in time

the songs are definitely good. i really like kagerou daze, and even the anime OP (just "daze" apparently) is really good too. im putting off listening to the others until my 12-episode ordeal is over, though

i am very much watching the TV broadcast version because i love to suffer. episode 4 definitely shows a dip in quality. but there's no way episode 9 could be worse than other things i've watched...right?

[ciel-phantomhives-world]

I actually quite enjoyed Season 1. It had it's hilarious and goth moments and of course it also got it's flaws but it was entertaining (although lacked consistencies a bit). It was an angel compared to season 2, lol. Season 2 sucked... Big Time.

One of my favorite moments from season 1 is how they handled Lizzie in it. This is something that I haven't seen many people talk about that much. So, here I go.

I know Lizzie has been whiny and everything and was certainly very annoying in season 2 but in this season... Well... Not so much (unless we r talking about the RING accident, of course and by the way, that was canon and directly adapted from the manga). I did hate a few episodes from season 1 (not the non canon ones, surprisingly, but the ones that they adapted but even bothered to change or cut certain stuff, take the curry arc for example. Absolutely hated the anime version of that, except the funny fight scenes lol).

Anyways, I really loved the fact that Lizzie at least realized that what she did was wrong and she was trying her best to find Ciel a similar looking ring (in season 1, that is). Now this was a very important moment which showed that how much Lizzie cares for Ciel (along with the Campania arc moments, but let's skip all the chapters that came after season 1) or how much guilty she felt for that incident, in my opinion. I believe, the manga just brushed that ring incident off, right after that one chapter. Lizzie didn't seem to regret or feel guilty at all after she did what she did (at least that's how I saw it). The next chapter we saw Lizzie was the one where she and her mother came to Ciel's house for hunting competition and for his birthday and I just saw Lizzie trying to be a bother to Ciel (somehow again) by literally getting on the horse with him (even though it's in the middle of a freaking competition between this fragile teen boy and that strong badass woman).

I mean, if I'm not wrong then I don't really think that Lizzie ever wondered anything about that ring at all after she broke it, back in the manga, right? Isn't that odd? Didn't she see Ciel wearing the ring even though it was broken and thrown out? She never questioned that how did he got that ring back, at all... Also, knowing the manga, obviously now we know that how much important that ring was, especially for our Ciel (not just because it was a family ring passed over for generations but because of all the trauma that the twins went through and all) and also, Lizzie's supposed to be sort of knowing it's importance, right? Cuz she spent a lot of time with the Phantomhives as a kid and she must have seen Vincent wearing it, at least once and that's how she could have known that it's an important ring for Ciel (since it's his dead father's ring) without having to know whatever the twins went through.

All I remember from the manga, is that Lizzie kinda realized that her methods of trying to make Ciel happy wasn't working (back at that hunting chapter) and Sebastian reassured her. But about the ring... Well nah. No conscience or no curiosity about how it's back in good shape, at all which kind of bothered me. At least she could wonder that how did he get it back.

Well, anyways, look, I only read the manga once (and was continuing to read every new monthly chapters until the hiatus) since it's so much tear-jerking and also because I don't wanna get overly spoiled especially since there's way higher possibilities of all the arcs (from green witch arc) being animated. It will be no fun at all if I were to know every single thing from the manga while watching the anime. Hence, it's good to have blurry memories or forgetting some itsy bitsy details from the manga, for now (at least for me). However, I think that here, I'm not wrong. I really don't think there was a single moment in the manga where she wondered about the ring or felt remorse.

It could be Yana having a little bit of inconsistencies since this happened right at the very beginning of the series or maybe it happened cuz Yana didn't think kuroshitsuji was going to stay for this long. Anyways , I'm glad that even if the manga couldn't address this issue, still the anime did so (this was one of the most sweetest and important moments from the anime for me)❤️.

“I… only wanted to see Ciel’s smile…I wanted him to be happy… forever.”

[sexually-confused-goblin]

Probably a hot take (idk, I'm not really active in fandoms, but from what I've seen online, it might very well be), but here goes: 

Movie/series adaptations (of books for example), are basically expensive and licensed fanfiction. Some people don't seem to be able to accept that those won't always be 100% true to the source material.

To go a little further, one bad season doesn't automatically make a bad series. Of course it's not great if especially the first season of a series isn't done well. When it concerns a series that isn't purely episodic but rather spans a quite large, overarching story though, it seems a bit unfair to me to trash the whole thing.

It's like saying "That cake is terrible!" when one has probably only taste-tested the flour, because it was the only ingredient that had been weighed at the time the person decided to criticize the other's baking skills.

Maybe the cake will turn out disgusting in the end, who knows? But at that point both people can't know, which is why they'll have to wait a bit, until all the other ingredients are added and the batter is actually baked. 

I'll use one aspect I saw was very criticized online from The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power as an example here:

Characters need to develop in some way, because otherwise the story might actually feel very flat. For that to happen, the character has to start somewhere.

Did I like Galadriel this season? No, not really, she just seemed arrogant and cruel at the end.

Was it intended for her to be that way? Most likely, judging from interviews and also Adar's comment in series about her personality ("I see I'm not the only Elf alive transformed by darkness").

Is, thanks to that, potential for character growth given? Absolutely, and I'm interested in how she'll develop from this starting point to the Galadriel we might know from the movies/books about The Third Age. I'm generally excited to find out how the other characters are going to grow and develop. We only have 1 out of apparently 5 planned seasons as of now. The adventure has basically just started. 

Was this season of The Rings of Power flawed in my opinion? Yes, there definitely were elements I didn't really like. But there were also many aspects I found intriguing enough to keep watching. I personally think people should give it a chance, but maybe those who didn't like the first season should wait until more seasons are out, so there has been more story and character development and they can taste-test at least the mixed batter, if the whole cake isn't done at that point.

[finitefall]

These showrunners always excuse the changes they made by saying the book is "biased" , "propaganda" , "historians are misogynists" , etc...

if everything is totally made up , false , and propaganda.. then why bother adapting anything at all? Why don't they make their own story , invent their own characters . Because at this point 99% of the characters in this show only share the names of their characters in the book and nothing else . That's even worse than what d&d did , because at the very least their adaption was faithful to the source material in the first 4 seasons, they start making changes when they run out of the source material. While Ryan and Sara made radical changes from the very beginning when everything is present there in the book....

Not to mention that this is a screwed up argument since Fire and Blood wasn't actually written by Archmaester Gyldayn, but George R.R. Martin. The fact it's written as a History textbook rather a novel doesn't mean Martin isn't actually relating what happened, even though there are different versions as always in History and we know Mushroom isn't a reliable source.

But if we go with their argument, then you're right, there was no reason for them to say they wanted to make an "adaptation" of this book, except to try to seem smart and educated with their so-called representation of feminism and queerbait ship... which had the opposite effect since they only sound stupid, especially when they try to explain us that we're the ones who didn't understand the book characters.

You're right, at least D&D went with the original story at first. They made big changes with the characters and storylines even when they were still adapting the published books, but not to the point where a character had absolutely nothing in common with their book version. And for all its flaws, Game of Thrones still used to be a great show (in my opinion). From seasons 1 to 4, it was one of my favorite shows. What also makes a great show are iconic scenes and iconic lines, and there were plenty of those just in the first season of Game of Thrones. In House of the Dragon, the only iconic line, the one people put on their blog, is "Where is duty? Where is sacrifice?", which says a lot about the show itself and the ones who find the writing amazing.

An issue people have been talking about a lot is the misogyny in Game of Thrones. The awful sexism from D&D isn't up to debate, but when the writers of House of the Dragon said they wanted to "fix" the mistakes in the previous adaptation, we definitely didn't expect their screwed up definition of feminism.

Game of Thrones was a good adaptation (in my opinion) of A Song of Ice and Fire for a few seasons. House of the Dragon is more an original story inspired by (not even based on) the events in Fire and Blood than an adaptation of Fire and Blood. It actually reminds me of the debate over The Rings of Power, because I could enjoy it even though it has flaws as it's not an adaptation of any book (I talked about it here).

[djemsostylist]

Okay, so controversial opinion, but the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movies were absolutely terrible. Particularly as adaptations. Like, completely butchered characters and theme in every way that mattered. But they also played a huge role in my childhood/teens, and it makes me feel some type of way.

Like many, I was young when the LotR movies came out, and like many, they fill me with warm feelings of nostalgia. I still feel something when I hear the Breaking of the Fellowship, I still feel soft when I hear Concerning Hobbits. I still love Arwen's dresses, and the Ride of the Rohirrim still gives me a rush. That Jackson pulled off something previously thought undoable goes without saying. And many of the elements were fantastic. The costumes, most of the armor, many of the set pieces, the music. Watching Fellowship will always make me feel warm.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that, no matter how warm and safe those movies make you feel, they were terrible adaptations. The mere fact that they didn't include the Scouring of the Shire shows that they completely misinterpreted the entire theme and purpose of the story. Add to that making Aragorn and Gandalf the main characters (they gave Aragorn this entirely weird and unnecessary story arc because he didn't really have one in the books, which is like yeah, because he is not the main character and we are already at the end of his story), the fact that they spent the entirety of the Two Towers on Helm's Deep and the way they turned most of the "creeping horror" scenes into "let's drop 80 billion skulls from the ceiling bc it's spooky right" and I'd argue it's hard to disagree that the films pretty much butchered LotR.

Now, bear in mind that I'm not saying you shouldn't like them. I suspect that most people who love them do so for two reason (or both)--either they bring up warm memories of a younger you experiencing the joy of a beloved story come to life on screen and the viewing of them now evokes warm feelings, or it was baby's first fantasy (like the absolutely atrocious Game of Thrones for many a modern watcher) and it was just like wow. Whatever the reason, liking the movies isn't inherently a bad thing. As I've said many a time before--just because you like a bad thing doesn't make it a character flaw against you. But, and this is important, even Tolkien would agree that the Jackson movies were terrible adaptations--and we know this from letters written before his death, where he literally (and perhaps somewhat presciently) described scenes and adaptation choices he disagreed with (many of which mirror choices Jackson made verbatim--for example, he describes one script he read with the Weathertop scene (a near exact replica of Jackson's, only many, many years before) and how it completely butchers the tone and feeling he was trying to evoke. He also says that if pressed for time, removing Helm's Deep would be acceptable, bc it's sort of a skippable battle that could likely just be mentioned in passing to focus on the parts that matter.)

So whether or not you like the trilogy is sort of irrelevant. Your liking of it doesn't mean it was good. And to be clear, I still enjoy watching watching. I found most of his choices (casting, costuming, music) to be solid (though there are a few casting headscratchers) but his characterization is mostly awful, as are his changes. But I would never claim "this feels like Tolkien" because it fundamentally does not. Just read Book 1 of Lord of the Rings, and the difference is already astounding, tonally. And that is to say nothing of the way the themes of the story are sort of universally thrown aside.

But lately the primary comments I have seen from people who ~loved~ Rings of Power are three-fold: either people are haters bc they miss the PJ version of Middle-Earth, people are haters because they are racist incel men, or that haters don't matter bc the good Sir John Tolkien himself would have cried in rapturous glee to see his works so loving captured and beautifully rendered onscreen. And they are all wrong.

Look, are there racists who hate it? I mean yeah I have no doubt, but I'll also say that as someone who has been following this disaster from the get go, I find far more people talking about evil racists than...actual racist remarks. I'm not saying they don't exist (those sort of people certainly do) but I also think it was a way of shutting down haters "people only hate bc they are racist". Are there people who are disappointed that they didn't deep fake Young Huge Weaving a la Tony Stark and make him play younger Elrond whilst hiring a virtually unchanged Cate Blanchett to reprise her role while they flitted around in long wigs and velvet gowns? I'm almost certain.

But by and large, I think people who are "haters" are haters bc either it was crappily done, or are haters because, and this is important, it's not Tolkien. It's a fanfic of a fanfic, and a poorly done one at that. It's an AU if Middle Earth was a DnD land.

Rings of Power (love it or hate) is an abysmal adaptation of Tolkien. And it's not just because they don't have rights to 98% of what they need to make this story viable, it's because once again, they fundamentally do not understand the underlying theme and vibes of Tolkien. Galadriel not being a Commander is important. The Hobbits (I know they are Harfoots, fuck off, they should be Fallowhides anyway per the source material they actually do have the rights to) are not. Gandalf if not even a minor player, Celeborn is a major one. Sauron isn't a spooky serial killer haunting their dreams (although given they have no rights to Annatar I guess Steve the gym rat serial killer was the best choice). Elves keeping humans in permanent open air prison camps for generations never happened. Elrond would not have been dismissed from any council for not being a lord (given, you know, his parentage), Gil-Galad could never have even offered Galadriel a chance to the return to the homeland, and Findrod died in defense of Beren. Also, you know, the second age wasn't about funny sit-com dwarves (a truly bizarre interpretation that everyone loves but I can't figure out where it comes from since Tolkien dwarves are not even close to being comedic buffoons), bird's nest wearing hobbit types, and weirdly blond Elrond being an architect and gal pals with his future mother in law.

So you can like it, it can make you feel all warm and fuzzy and yadda yadda, but please, for the love of god, stop trying to claim it feels like Tolkien. "Oh they used flowerly language" okay, so did Spartacus but I'm not out here claiming that Claudius Glaber made me think about Fingolfin. This is not, and will never be Tolkien. This is an antithesis of quite literally everything he would have imagined for this. Stop trying to justify liking it with fabricated claims. If you like it, like it, but lying to yourself helps no one. I've said this before (and I realize the irony coming on the heels of a post entirely about justifying why I hate something but you know)--not everything has to be justified. Maybe you watched RoP and it made your heart tingle. Maybe you watched it and made you want to vomit. (The latter seems more likely). But Tolkien it aint, and I think that people have a right to feel justifiably upset at what they did to the material, to the fact that this show is clearly a part of a larger Hollywood thinktank designed to print money and generate talking points, and worry about the long term impact on public perception of Tolkien. Because, and again, perhaps this is a controversial opinion, but the vast majority of people are going to know Tolkien via the movies, not the books. I literally know someone who was doing a podcast about their favorite stories and did an entire episode about Lord of the Rings, but only the movies because they had never been able to get through the books. That is a problem because while the books will always be there, public perception and knowledge of them will always be superseded by the alternate public perception. The Jackson Trilogy is proof of that.

[bennetsbonnet]

I think, if this post is meant a s a response to something I posted yesterday (and I apologise if it isn't and I've jumped the gun), that I should point out that trying to tell people off for enjoying certain adaptations was not my intention at all!

You can absolutely find comfort in an interpretation of the character, even if it isn't 1:1 for the book. I would never think someone couldn't enjoy a particular adaptation (even if I personally may not) because who am I to dictate someone else's tastes? My post was more meant as a vent regarding how much I enjoy the nuances of book!Darcy and how frustrated I feel that he isn't always given the credit for how much he improved himself for Elizabeth, which particularly happens when his character gets flattened to socially awkward cinnamon roll. Which I do feel is, in part, due to the 2005 adaptation... but it doesn't mean it's bad or there isn't any inherent value in it. After all, I watched it last June and that's what made me truly fall in love with the story so it'll always have a special place in my heart!

I recognise that this frustration is very much a me problem for caring so much about a character, but I just wanted to rant somewhere which is why I made that post sjsjsk. It's quite a problem in the Austen fandom generally, but I really dislike seeing any sense of competition between adaptations, they all have a different appeal and not one has ever perfectly captured the novel. I wouldn't want to disparage any of them or make anyone feel bad for enjoying a particular version of this beautiful story.

I don't for one second believe that those who enjoy certain adaptations didn't really understand the book, I think that's quite snobby and elitist, because we all have different tastes and lines in the sand of the changes from the novel we can tolerate. We all have a unique relationship to the novel, the characters and even to the adaptations and I really value those different perspectives because I think it would be boring if we all felt the same way about everything, all the time!

I also don't think all of Mr Darcy's choices were for bad reasons, after all he went through with Wickham and Georgiana I think he's right to have his guard up somewhat, just that the execution was terrible. And I do think he is fundamentally a great guy, just his actions made us initially think that he isn't. He's a flawed character, but that's what makes him so realistic and appealing and why I care so much about him :')

lately i've seen people in the pride and prejudice fandom get so heated about people seeing darcy as a misunderstood guy because his choices were for Bad Reasons and he's not really a Great Guy and that's important to be aware of but have they considered.. fiction is fiction and the meaning is with the reader/viewer and some of us just want the comfort where we find it and if that means taking him at face value in the 2005 movie rather than being sad that a man character is just a man then that's fine and normal??

[shinidamachu]

Okay, not sure if you agree and it's been a while since I watched the anime, but isn't Kagome just so lovable from when we first meet her early on in the series? Yes she's naive, immature and pampered, but I never saw her as really bratty and unlikable. Correct me if I'm wrong but she rarely complained about the lack of luxury and modern technology in the feudal era. She just always seemed content in going on picnics, exploring the region, liked the adventures and even loved the hot springs 1/2

Now don't get me wrong. She still loved the privileges of being at home like taking long baths and having home cooked meals, but I just really admire how well she settles in nicely in the feudal era. It's almost like she was "destined"?? "wink wink". If anything, the only few times I see her really complain was from a sore bum from riding on her bike for too long 🤣. I just love how she takes everything in her stride and that's why she was my favourite from the beginning 2/2.

Kagome is definitely lovable. It wasn't my intention to ever imply otherwise, LMAO. At the same time she was a 15 years old girl who grew up never having to struggle for anything she wanted so it's actually expected that she would be naive, immature and pampered, see: inside the protection of a very caring family, she didn't really have a reason to be or act any different.

And although it was her family's job to keep her safe and provide for her, it's also true that this protection can result on her being naive, immature and pampered. It doesn't not, in any way, make her bratty and unlikable.

Being spoiled doesn't necesseraly mean being entitled. Being naive doesn't necesseraly mean being oblivious. Being immature doesn't necesseraly mean being above growth. She was naive, immature and pampered. She was also kind, empathic, understanding and capable of adapting.

It’s precisely because Kagome is all of that at once that she has room to grow, making her a character that feels relatable, real and likeable. She has flaws but she is trying her best to improve. None of her flaws are absolute. Some of them actually come from her qualities and some of her qualities come from her flaws.

She wouldn’t be so naive if she also didn’t have a heart of gold and a blind optimism. She might be immature in some aspects, but when it came to the love triangle she ultimately acted with more grace and maturity than most people her age. She was pampered but this also made her pamper the people she cared about all the time.

Truth, she never complained about the lack of luxury and modern technology and seemed  content in making the most out of it with all the picnics, hot springs and what not, which is proof of her adaptability, perseverance and will to learn, to test new things, to prove herself. It doesn’t mean she still didn’t have a long way to go, since she wasn’t used to the brutal reality of the Feudal Era quite yet. It’s only natural that she would be seen by someone like Inuyasha as a liability, at first, until he learns how valorous, helpful and brave she is.

And speaking of “natural,” I think you nailed in the head when you pointed out how well she settles into the Feudal Era, in spite of still loving her privileges and long baths and cooked meals. This is actually one of my arguments of how it makes way much more sense for her to live in the past than Inuyasha live in the future. She had made a life for herself there. So much that when the well closed and she was forced to live in her time, it didn’t feel like hers anymore.

She had finally outgrown her naivety, immaturity and spoiled ways because Inuyasha inadvertently taught her there is more to life than that.

[seyaryminamoto]

I'm agree about Iroh being a creep, like okay he's a benign creep since there's WAY worse pervy old guy's in fiction, but still. Anyway, something in your reply to that ask got me wondering. Would my hunch that you dislike big age gaps in relationships between two legal age characters be correct? What's your tolerable limit. I can partly tolerate a 10 year gap if its written well, but my comfy limit is a 5 year gap. I know people who's limit is only 1 year, and others who are cool with 15- 20

I feel like there's two reasons why people don't like acknowledging this side of Iroh's, and one is what you said, there's a lot of worse characters out there (I mean, yes, typically anime characters who are perverts face consequences for their crap, ergo usually it means the author is punishing them for being creeps, but they're still damn gross...). The other is simply that people like to simplify things and accepting Iroh has flaws as ugly as these is veeeeery uncomfortable, especially for those who see him as a comfort character. I've got no qualms with people loving Iroh, they're free to do that if they want to: I, evidently, don't feel that way, but it's not my business to tell people what to love. Still... being a good guy all around in every other aspect of your life, imo, doesn't make this behavior excusable (and I don't think he's even 100% good with every other aspect of his life anyway).

As for your hunch... I think my take is basically the same as yours. It's a slightly complicated topic, but let's see if I can explain myself without making a mess of things:

As a concept, I don't like large age gaps. Whenever I've seen female friends of mine thirsting over men twice their age (or older) I've been genuinely baffled because I usually don't see the appeal at all. Curiously, it's the same thing downwards: I see some young actors up and coming, already featuring in shows and movies with sexual content, and my brain's instinctively wired to say "okay you're too young for me, not interested". It can even happen with someone who's... 3 years younger than me? They'd still be 100% legal if they're 3 years younger than me, btw xD but I'd still feel uncomfortable, on a flat, conceptual basis.

This being said...

There are certain situations in fiction where big age gaps aren't all that uncomfortable for me. Specifically, it's when the characters have a very interesting and complex relationship and dynamic, particularly a dynamic that DOESN'T feature the older person in a position of authority over the younger one, something I absolutely need in case they met when the younger one was a child.

I can't think of many ships that I genuinely support with a large age gap, the only one I can think of atm is Okita Souji and Hijikata Toshizo (... yeah, it's two actual people from history xD there's like ten thousand different adaptations of the Shinsengumi, so I mostly try to interpret their relationship based on the clues left by history, which, yes, clues do exist!). Theirs is, at worst, a 9 year age gap, and they did meet (as far as I understand) when Okita was a child (goes without saying, I do NOT believe their relationship would have had romantic connotations all along, especially from Hijikata's side, and I don't think they had filial connotations either, since Okita's reported sibling-like bonds were with other members of the Shinsengumi).

At the point at which they likely first met, Okita was already learning kenjutsu and Hijikata was as good as an amateur with it, self-taught and a total trainwreck because of it. Several years later, Hijikata finally decides to learn kenjutsu the proper way: Okita, if my info isn't wrong, is already a Mokuroku (so no longer an apprentice) at that point, while Hijikata is still very much an apprentice, which gives Okita an actual position of authority over someone nine years older than him! Total subversion! XD

By the time Hijikata actually gains a position of authority over Okita (as in, once they're part of the Shinsengumi, when Okita is of age), Okita as well has a position of power in the organization, so it's not like Okita is 100% powerless and Hijikata 100% powerful: they're both among the leaders of this organization. Hijikata apparently revered Okita as one of the greatest swordsmen ever, far better than himself, and they're very frequently portrayed as having a very strong bond as comrades in arms. Therefore, theirs doesn't feel like an unequal relationship: Okita actually embodies lots of things Hijikata wishes he could have been, so in this case the older person even ADMIRES the younger person in a very wholesome way... therefore, as far as I interpret it, this isn't an inequal relationship at all, and so, the 9 year gap isn't an unsettling thing for me, in this context (it becomes extra bearable when you find that there's records that date Okita's birth even earlier, so it could even be a 7 year gap instead).

This being said, if these two weren't historical characters and were completely my invention, I don't think I'd ever have such a big age gap between them... but as they're historical, I don't really have any say upon the matter.

This relationship, however, is an outlier. This isn't how most age-gap relationships in media turn out, in my experience. There's a very frequent romanticizing of the older person as a caretaker and as the protector while the younger is the brittle and fragile baby who needs to be looked after, and who starts to develop feelings once they reach a certain age, and yadda yadda. That stuff doesn't fly with me at all. I don't need characters to have an explicitly stated "non-parental" bond to think these sorts of relationships are uncomfortable: if I were the adult in the situation, I'd be beyond creeped out by the concept of dating someone young enough to be my child. If I can't even look at people 3 years younger than myself romantically, how could I EVER feel that way about anyone I saw growing up as a child? Typically, these sorts of things really are fantasies for a lot of people, but I don't see the appeal at all. In the case I mentioned up there, like I said, the fun part for me is seeing the older character being in absolute awe over the younger one, not only over the younger one's heritage, but over his talent and hard-working spirit, his strength of mind and his devotion and loyalty to his family. This ISN'T what I see in most age-gap relationships in media. And so... I can't get behind them, at all. Even if they're not always a situation of actual child grooming, there's enough cases where they are, and the people who romanticize them can't really see what they're condoning more often than not.

So it boils down, for me, to many specifics: if we're not seeing a creepy fantasy where the helpless baby falls for their powerful figure of authority or caretaker, which can (and usually does) sour an otherwise wholesome relationship, it's probably a relationship I can at least live and let die, in a way. I won't be interested in it unless the dynamic between the characters is REALLY compelling (the way it usually is with Hijikata and Okita), but if there's no weirdness about falling in love with the figure of authority who saw you growing up, I can probably bear with it, even if it's not my cup of tea.

Now though, as far as legal adults are concerned, if the situation is... well, Iroh and June? That's also a no-go for me, obviously. Clearly, most people interpret June as an adult (yet there's no stated age for her, ergo she might even be a late teenager, but for the sake of not making Iroh even more disturbing, I don't interpret her as such), so it's not like her relationship with Iroh would have inherent "filial" connotations which would turn it into some incestual thing (which is what it typically feels like with caretakers who somehow fall for the child they were raising...), even if it's not literal incest. So yes, this isn't really a problem with Iroh and June, and yet... we go right back to my first point: I, personally, don't think older men are appealing. I can respect them, admire some of them, 100% true, but thinking of them in a romantic light? Absolutely not, thank you very much.

Iroh isn't shown to us with a very intriguing dynamic with June, Iroh isn't shown to us with a complex relationship with June: Iroh is literally shown to us as an old man who saw a hottie and thinks he can get away with touching her if he's "clever" and "subtle" about it. How, exactly, are there people out there who find this dynamic compelling enough to ship it, beats me, but usually it comes from "oh I love Iroh and I think he should be happy!" which... is a great reason to ship him in a relationship with someone he didn't sexually harass, maybe? :'D Why isn't June's happiness important? She outright called him creepy. She made faces of disgust at Iroh, and there's zero reason to think she's playing "tsundere" about having any interest in an older guy.

IF the situation were inverted, with June thirsting over Iroh who has no idea why this girl has such tastes in men... well, I'd find it more bearable, though not shippable anyway, not for myself. But as long as the relationship features the older person, in particular, actively disregarding reasonable boundaries? Whether because the younger one somehow convinces them to do it (the typical excuse in grooming cases), or because they just felt like it (Iroh's case)? The relationship is 100% garbage for me :'D That simple.

IRL, I am always uncomfortable with grooming situations. There's one book author, I was forced to read one of his novels in university, who wrote very creepy stories that were potentially autobiographical about himself (as in, literally using his own name for the MC) and young boys. When I looked him up out of hopes, HOPES, that maybe this wasn't that autobiographical and he was just trying to be creepy for the sake of controversy? I found out he was in a relationship with a guy my age, and it was entirely possible that they only "went public" about it when the guy was over 18 to avoid bad press :')

I seriously felt like puking when I read that. The author in question is literally FIFTY-TWO years older than his partner. I can't look at anyone who's fifty years older than myself and think they're appealing or attractive in any way, the very notion makes me sick. And yes, it's not my life, it's not my business, but honestly? It makes me VERY uncomfortable, especially considering the kind of stuff I saw the author writing about, stuff that wasn't at all the wholesome gay fantasies a lot of people on Tumblr expect most LGBT people to write. This stuff was very, VERY creepy, it would be no less creepy if he were straight rather than gay, and I will never not find him a fundamentally disturbing person, based on the fact that his stories on actively seeking out underage boys to sleep with might even have basis on reality.

*shudders* sorry, I really didn't want to think about that, but... ugh. I'm still revolted every time I remember it...

All in all, I'm not going to chase anyone down with pitchforks over either liking big age gap relationships in fiction or having a (LEGAL!) relationship with a big age gap of their own, it's their lives and their business, but I'm 100% in my right to feel uncomfortable about such relationships when I see them, whether in fiction or IRL. Much like you put it, if the story is well-written and the relationship doesn't have a lot of disturbing connotations (such as the Hijikata-Okita one I mentioned earlier), I can accept certain relatively large age gaps, but if the gap goes over 10 years it's quite likely that I'll feel uncomfortable with it. If the relationship dynamic is either "creepy old person chases after tsundere younger one who actually loves the attention but pretends otherwise" or "Child grows up to fall in love with their caretaker and the caretaker somehow decided to reciprocate their feelings", I don't want it, at all.

If the writer has no interest or intentions to feature characters in a relationship as equals, I typically don't care for it, age gap or no. Relationships with large age gaps, usually, are cemented on this inequality: what people romanticize about them is precisely this inequality. Whether because they genuinely think it's cute, or because they think it's funny (as in Iroh's case, I suspect), it's absolutely not something that flies with me. Some serious hard work would be in order to convince me to like a relationship with a big age gap, and that means it would need genuinely enjoyable dynamics and themes that I could absolutely support. Most large age gaps I've seen in media, however, don't go along these lines, so...

On a final note, I'll add that if the relationship with a very large age gap is written in a way that DOESN'T romanticize it, as in, to actually show it's wrong and disturbing (such as featuring either of the characters reflecting on how wrong it is? Other people saying it's disgusting? Stuff like that? :'D), I'll be able to bear with it, to a fault. Romanticizing these relationships (especially if they're like those I described above) is gross to me, but this DOESN'T mean that someone who's writing a relationship with a big age gap is exclusively doing it because they're a creep. I can acknowledge that sometimes it's simply a plot device. Sometimes it's an obstacle to overcome. Sometimes you're literally looking at a historical depiction of a relationship that did have a large age gap, and there's no actual choice but to depict it as it is. If a not-so-healthy relationship with a big age gap is not romanticized by the narrative, like I said, I'll endure it as long as the rest of the content is worth it, but I'm absolutely going to be uncomfortable (which will likely be the intent, in these cases), and I'm absolutely not going to ship or support that particular relationship dynamic on any level.

All in all, I try to be in the live and let die camp as long as there's no grooming, as long as the people in the relationship are of age, as long as the people in the relationship have a genuinely positive bond. But big age gaps aren't and won't ever be among things I'm keen on seeing, so I think in general my stance on them is "no, thank you."