#why yes i did just start rewatching s2

[tough-n-dumb]

i genuinely cannot get over kaz’s face and the barely concealed panic on it when sturmhond/nikolai holds up the garnets of ivets necklace and kaz realizes that without it he can’t keep his promise to inej and pay off her indenture. and we know that he takes the necklace from alina in the first place exactly for that reason

and so even though inej would probably be so angry at him for it, he immediately sells alina out to get the necklace/equivalent money back

this man is willing to damn a saint with absolutely zero hesitation for the woman he loves

[chiibinomonodamon]

WHO WANTS TO HEAR ME RAMBLE ABOUT GAY FURRY DEMON SEX? XD

(damn, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say....)

Okay...so I see some Stolitz confusion and bashing online and I need to type up a defense here because I won't be able to sleep otherwise lol

I consider myself to be a Ship Critic and someone who takes shipping rather seriously.

What I mean by this is, I like to analyze and break down romantic relationships between fictional characters because it's just interesting to write for me. I especially take delight in friendly debating with opinions that I strongly do *not* agree with.

Let me start off by saying I am NOT a "this ship is awesome because gay furry sex lol" type of girl.

FAR from it. I'm generally more passionate about hetero ships between human characters (because I can relate to them more) among other reasons. So if you wanna dismiss my defense as "shallow fangirlism", you can forget about that lame excuse.

I fell in love with Hazbin Hotel when it was finally released in February and suffered waiting for each new two-parts per week. During that time, I decided to watch Helluva Boss as well, after a friend showed me a particularly soul-crushing clip (Moxxie's childhood trauma about his mother).

Yes, I like funny sex jokes as much as the next goofy adult but scenes like this, scenes that carry a very heavy emotional weight are what really get me in the end, even moreso when VERY little dialogue is exchanged. I knew I had to watch the entire episode run after seeing that the creators had a talent for this.

I saw people asking:

"How did Stolas go from using Blitz as a sex toy to being painfully in love with him?"

Oh I can tell you. I can tell you the EXACT moment this is revealed. But it's not spoon-fed to you; it's quite subtle actually and this is why lots of people miss it.

See, one of the strongest talents Vivenne has shown me is that she REALLY knows how to get her characters to communicate their feelings to the viewers JUST from their expressions and body language. These can be 'blink-and-miss-it' teeny little scenes and it may require a couple rewatches.

But since people demand time stamps for all information others post here, I'll rewatch a few scenes from S1 E7 'Ozzie's' as I'm typing this.

'Ozzie's' remains to be not just my favorite episode of HB...but probably my favorite episode of any adult-targeted animated show outside of Japan (aside from S2 E7's Mid-Season Special)

It has this huge reveal for both Blitzo and Stolas.

We'll first address Blitzo's irrational, stalkerish behavior of Moxxie and Millie.

He's obsessed with them. He finds both of them very attractive, fantasizes about threesomes with them and is constantly inserting himself into their personal lives.

Why?

Because they have everything that he badly badly wants for himself.

They have the perfect marriage and he is trying to live THROUGH them.

This was hilarious to me at the beginnning of the show but it's slowly revealed that it's one of the most tragic and depressing things I've ever seen. And it's scarily realistic too.

But you know this already so let's move on...

Blitzo follows the couple to Ozzie's but he can't get in without a date. So he calls up Stolas and yes, this is very low but he doesn't realize how much this means to Stolas (hell, I'm not sure even Stolas realizes it himself!) but the owl man is giddy with joy, he rushes over and they enter Ozzie's.

When Ozzie and Fizz mock Moxxie for being so sappy towards his wife, this strikes a chord with Blitzo (because they're his IDEAL relationship) and he speaks up to defend them.

NOW PAY CLOSE ATTENTION; THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

Fizz, still holding onto his past grudge turns on Blitzo to humilate him:

"Some nerve you got commenting on a relationship"

Time Stamp: 11:37

As Fizz says "-ship", Blitzo VERY QUICKLY makes eye contact with Stolas who has a look of panic on his face. Blitzo is seeking VALIDATION from Stolas in this sharp, subtle second of screentime, as if to ask

"Well, ARE we in one?"

And then what happens next...Stolas remains silent, Blitzo's ex joins in to announce how selfish Blitzo was in bed with her, tearing him down further. Stolas stands up like he's going to put a stop to it but then Ozzie notices him and interrogates him about sleeping with Blitzo.

Blitzo looks incredibly ashamed and guilty as Stolas blushes with similar feelings...and hides his face behind his menu; HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE SERIES SO FAR.

Time Stamp: 12:24

The look on Blitzo's face as he grits his teeth and darts his eyes away basically says

"Yeah, I should have known...boy am I an idiot for trusting him to stand up for me".

(look how SHOCKED he is...wow, this hurts fr ;_;)

This is a silent betrayal on Stolas's part. Afterall, his reputation is on the line, so if he were to defend Blitzo, it confirms they are in fact, dating. He chose his pride over Blitzo and Blitzo is crushed by this betrayal.

Moxxie finishes his song and kisses his wife tenderly. Stolas watches this and also wants to have an affectionate moment with Blitzo (who is rightfully glaring daggers at him) and tries to reach for his hand.

Blitzo rejects his touch and suggests they leave. As they do, Blitzo still looks furious and hurt. Stolas is now realizing how badly he screwed up with a "What have I done?" face (13:41)

He even looks disappointed with himself.

After Blitzo drops Stolas off, he thanks him and tries to smooth over the awkwardness with sweet talk but Blitzo just rolls his eyes in disgust and pulls on his face like "I don't want to hear this bullshit".

He responds coldly and curtly, "Yeah." Stolas makes more suggestions to spend time with him, which just makes him even angrier and he snaps

"I'm not fucking you tonight, okay!

I'm really just..." (14:28)

he pauses to wipe a tear because at this point he can barely hold it together (top notch voice acting and animation directing btw)

"...not in the mood, Stolas."

Stolas still tries to talk him into doing couple things unrelated to sex.

Blitzo's face switches back to anger and frustration because Stolas isn't getting the message so he goes for the blunt tactic;

"Stolas, don't act like what we have is anything but YOU wanting ME to fuck you, okay?"

(14:42)

"You make that really clear all the time."

(again his voice sounds like he's about to break down)

"But I-I just can't do it tonight, okay?"

(Finally meets his eye)

"...I'm sorry."

I believe this is code for "I'm sorry we're even in this situation and how your reputation got damaged. " Or, more painfully, "I'm sorry I'm such an embarrassment to you".

Stolas replies "Okay" and takes a deep breath to compose himself. They say goodnight and depart.

An important note here is that Stolas calls him "Blitzo" instead of "Blitzy" to show more respect.

As Blitzo zooms away coldly, Stolas looks up at the sky with tears in his eyes, surprised at how much it hurts.

He then sits down with his head in his hands in anguish...because he's getting that

"Oh...no. These feelings are real" epiphany.

And as if this wasn't enough angst, Blitzo collapses onto his couch at home, goes through the memories on his phone and starts sobbing.

I'm going to be real with you; this is the most heart-breaking shit I have ever seen in an adult show of this type. It's also the first time a show of this type got me to cry.

The last six minutes have revealed so much information without spoonfeeding it to the audience because the show RESPECTS its audience.

To recap:

*Blitzo takes Stolas on a first official date to use him

*Stolas is extremely happy about it

*Blitzo gets humilated and looks to Stolas for validation

*Stolas betrays him and breaks his heart

*Blitzo snaps that their relationship is nothing more than lust-driven sex

*Stolas realizes he's actually in love with Blitzo and it's a huge problem because (he believes) that it's unrequited.

*Blitzo breaks down because the ONE person whom he thought would protect him didn't do so.

So these two are convinced that neither one loves the other...while the irony is, it's quite the opposite.

Because if Blitzo REALLY didn't feel anything towards Stolas, he would not have gotten this emotional.

Yes, they are both lonely...but I really don't think that's all there is between them.

So..........we know WHEN they started falling...now the question is why;

I think the answer's quite simple; single-target affection.

It was mentioned in S2 that Stolas and Stella did sleep together ONE TIME...but Stolas didn't enjoy it at all. He is stuck with a wife who hates him so much that she put a HIT on him...and a daughter who thinks he's a loser. Blitzo is pretty much the one person in his life who is able to make him happy. That one small, bright spot. He enjoys the sex with him but he also simply enjoys his company, as shown in Ozzie's episode. He is thrilled to simply talk to him about his day...and do anything else that couples do. They're complete opposites. Stolas is an intellectual but naive and sheltered. Blitzo is poorly educated but cynical and street-smart. Opposites attract...though this is likely more from Stolas's POV than Blitzo's.

In other words, Stolas is into bad boys xD lmao

In Blitzo's case, Stolas is the only character who shows him physical affection which he desperately craves. He's pretty tsundere about it most of the time...but I think he actually does enjoy that attention...especially when he's always getting disrespected by Moxxie and Loona..and quite a lot of people around him. BUT he's too scared to get serious with anyone because of past trauma and he also believes that no one could possibly love him as a person. :(

Reasons I Think This Love is Real

Aside from what I pointed out in the Ozzie's episode...there's quite a lot of evidence, esp from Stolas's POV.

After he realizes he's in love, he goes to Asomodeous for an ALTERNATIVE method for Blitzo to use so they will no longer sleep together. He wants to set Blitzo free. Which means he DOES truly love him because love is about being generous to the other person. He COULD be totally selfish about it but he isn't.

Asomodeous mentions how against love potions he is and Stolas agrees. He thinks that's out of the question.

'Look My Way' music video. Lol I don't have to say anything more.

In S2 E6 OOPS

This exchange at 16:57

Fizz: Seems your taste has gotten more 'regal', lately?

Blitz: Yeah, well unlike you, I fuck who I want WHEN I want. I'm not gonna be tied down to some big blue-blood asshole.

Fizz: You coulda fooled me the way Prince was cozying up to you at Ozzie's.

Blitz (gets very defensive) HEY! Stolas only cares about have a rugged peasant raw-dog him into his mattress, okay!

It's nothing...(gets hesistant and looks away)...you know...

(Fizz gives him a 'bitch please' look xD)

"it's nothing else."

Fizz: Then why were you even there?

Blitz: OTHER very important reasons of course.

Fizz: Whatever. I don't actually care.

Blitz: Stolas is just a loud, thirsty BITCH!

(Fizz is rolling his eyes again)

Blitz: He loves feeling the thrill of getting dicked by the lower class.

It's a novelty to him.

Fizz: LITERALLY just said I don't care!

Blitz: And then he'll call me and try to see how my day was!

And he'll pretend to care about me and comment on my photos laugh at my jokes...

Fizz: (Smirking) OH! That's definitely your clue right there that it's all bullshit!

Blitz: I KNOW, RIGHT??

Fizz: (Making a 'What in idiot' expression, shaking his head)

Blitz: HE'S JUST A FAKE, PRIVELEDGED ASSHOLE...

Fizz: Sounds like you just hate him for being a prince!

No one (laughs) and I mean NO ONE pretends to care that much just for a cheap lay.

All right. IF ANYONE knows what real love is like, it's Fizzaroli...who is in a very HEALTHY relationship with Asomodeous. He recognizes the signs because he's IN that place. He sees it...and he's annoyed that Blitzo keeps denying it and brushing it off...yet clearly can NOT stop talking about Stolas (amusing irony)

To sum up (this freaking essay lol) 'Stolitz' ABSOLUTELY has the potential to be pure and true...these two just need to communicate...or Stolas has to PROVE to Blitzo that he's serious about his feelings in another way.

There is no doubt that this ship is 100% endgame and is a case of the 'Earn Your Happy Ending' Trope. I look forward to the rest of the journey. Ron is putting my feelings about Stolitz in a perfect phrase:

[averytirednerd]

About Episodes 7 and 8...MASSIVE SPOILERS!!

Initial thoughts (because if I talk about EVERYTHING right now you'll be here for at least half an hour)...

WHAT THE HELL?!

I mean I loved getting to watch the season finale, don't get me wrong. But I have just as many grievances as things I loved about it and also SO MUCH happened?!?!?!

Charlie: Loved getting to see her be all demon-y, I've been waiting all season. Also loved her and the cannibals (especially Rosie!!!). So glad she got to work w/ Luci to protect the hotel <333 She and Vaggie are adorable too.

Vaggie: I really enjoyed watching her and Carmilla's song, that was cool. Protecting her girlfriend, very cute. I liked seeing her and Lute have that little face-off.

Husk: Sad that we didn't get to see much of him, but I get it. His interactions with the others were sweet (especially Angel). I loved the one line he got to sing on his own in that last song of episode 8. 😍

Angel: Ngl I am very glad he wasn't the one to die. It would've been a fun little "oh crap" moment but I really didn't want to be right. He's still got business down there. His interactions with the others here are everything to me, and he's just grown so much and aaaaaa. It's lovely to see! I love him more and more with every episode.

Niffty: YOU GO, GIRL!!!! Love to see the stabbing. I also really loved the...one line Nifty got. Kimiko Glenn's voice is a gift, I freaked out over getting to hear one line. Anyway. not much else to say other than I definitely thought it was Alastor doing a big "oh look, I'm alive!" thing when Adam got stabbed, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Cherri Bomb/Sir P: I was surprised, to say the least, when Cherri and Sir P had that little moment. Glad they got it before he went and DIED. Cherri is such a good friend to Angel and she's great. Now, onto Sir P...WOW, OKAY. Glad we know Charlie's plan isn't completely stupid. Wonder how Sera's gonna react to him being there now, lol.

The Vees: FIRST OFF, VOX?????? "This is better than sex!" 💀💀💀 Truly was not expecting to see as much of the Vees as we did. Not complaining though. It was...interesting...to say the least, watching Vox get as excited as he did over the prospect of Al dying (still as obsessed as ever, fr). Not at all surprised to see Val and Vox have a thing going, I figured from the interactions we've seen so far. Them dancing together was silly, them practically making out was less so 😃. Also, gotta continue the love for Velvette--putting up with these two idiots must take a lot. Also also, her HAIR! HER HAIR!! EEEEE

Lucifer: I reallllyyyyyy enjoyed seeing Luci make a return to help Charlie, even if it was in one of those "last-minute saves" that I usually hate. Idk, makes sense here I guess because he's probably always watching over Charlie some way. ALSO LUCI AND CHARLIE GOING ALL DEMON-Y TOGETHER WAS <33333333 I really loved him starting off that last song in episode 8, and telling Charlie that he believes in her. It was so sweet. I love Luci sm, hoping he becomes a more integral part of the crew in s2.

Adam/Lute/Lilith: HAHA HOW DOES IT FEEL TO LOSE??? Lute got what she deserved with the whole...arm thing. ALSO WHAT--JUST GONNA CASUALLY DROP LILITH IN HERE NOW? Sure, fine, whatever, totally cool. Not sure how to feel about Lilith atm so moving on. I dunno why I was so shocked upon seeing Adam's face. I guess I expected him to...not look as good as he does? Also so upset that he broke Al's staff. How rude. He sucks.

Rosie: Not how I expected her to sound, but I'm most certainly not disappointed. I don't have much to say other than I loved literally everything about her. No complaints--at least not yet ig, need to go back and rewatch the episodes critically. Her and Alastor is everything to me, and seeing them dance was <333333 I cannot express my excitement over it enough.

Alastor: Saved him for last because yes. If I wasn't limiting myself to a short paragraph for each, I'd be writing a whole essay just about Al, I swear....CANNOT believe what just happened omg. Not only did we get to see silly Al in episode 7, but we got to see scary (and scared) Al in episode 8. He's really freaking out, it's so entertaining! I'm so glad it wasn't him who died, I started getting a bit worried for a minute there....His relationship with Rosie is aaaaa, best of besties fr. Fighting Adam scene was glorious. Making Vox act like an idiot even when not trying was funny to watch (Vox's obsession with this guy is so silly). Him retreating sure was a move, but I'm glad he didn't get all stubborn and end up dying. Him ranting a bit in his section of the final song was so...AAAAAAA. Man is so scared, he looks stressed as can be. I need to see Alastor just have an external breakdown because he honestly feels like he's on the verge of one. 💀

Stopping for now before I go on a bigger rant than I already have. To those who read all this, I'm so sorry pfft. Feel free to leave a comment if there's something you wanna discuss (or, better yet, send one of those ask thingies. I do not have comments figured out yet...)

Anyway, have a good one <3

[nofomogirl]

One of many roots of ineffable husbands' misunderstandings

There are many reasons why the S2 finale took us by surprise so much, and one of them is that we gaslighted ourselves into believing that Aziraphale and Crowley understand each other on the deepest possible level.

They don't.

Because they never talk. Not openly. Not about things that really matter.

I'm sure they've made a plethora of accurate observations about each other over the millennia, yes, but at the same time missed just as many things and formed just as many wrong assumptions.

We know that now.

For the last five months, we've been collectively shattering the illusion (most of us, anyway), and today I wanted to add to that noble effort. Something occurred to me while I was working on another post and I think it deserves to be its own thing rather than a sidenote in another lengthy meta.

It's probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here I go.

Crowley doesn't actually understand how Aziraphale makes decisions.

I was rewatching season 1 to confirm some things for my next analysis, as one normally does, and I had a minor epiphany about the scene where Aziraphale agrees to get involved in stopping Armageddon.

Let's recall how it went.

Crowley started listing things Aziraphale would lose along with Earth, and things he would have to endure in Heaven.

Aziraphale rejected his idea and tried to leave.

Crowley hooked Aziraphale back in by inviting him for lunch.

Crowley let Aziraphale enjoy his meal and relax.

Crowley bought himself more time by inviting himself over for drinks.

Crowley started giving more examples of things Aziraphale could enjoy on Earth that he wouldn't have in Heaven.

Crowley went on a rant on how nasty Armageddon would be.

Once more Crowley described just how miserable Aziraphale's life would be after Armageddon, for eternity.

Aziraphale cracked and admitted he didn't want Armageddon to happen. However, he insisted he could not disobey God's will.

Crowley pointed out that it might be God's plan for Armageddon to be prevented, that Aziraphale's duty as an angel was to stop whatever the demons were planning to do, and since right now they were planning to bring about Armageddon, he should stop that.

Aziraphale finally agreed and shook on it.

Until now I never questioned that it was a masterful temptation by temptation master Crowley and every stage was purposeful and absolutely necessary to achieve the final goal.

First Crowley made Aziraphale really want to prevent Armageddon and then helped him reframe the situation in a way that would allow the angel to do what he wanted. He gave him an excuse. A plausible deniability.

But what if that wasn't it?

What if what Crowley was actually doing was taking one approach after another until something finally worked? What if Aziraphale didn't really need any softening or priming, and Crowley had just wasted a whole day on ineffective tactics because he didn't know what would do the trick until he finally chanced upon it?

The more I thought about it the more convinced I was that that was the case, and right now I can't believe I was clinging so tightly to the idea that Crowley knew what he was doing with Aziraphale.

Because if he really did understand his angel as well as I used to believe, why would he be so unsuccessful at reaching him when it mattered the most?

A popular interpretation is that in those crucial moments, Crowley simply lacked time, and convincing Aziraphale always required time. When time was lacking Crowley's finesse was useless against the angel's stubbornness, so he failed.

I can see how that makes sense, but as I've said, personally, I changed my mind.

The interpretation I'm suggesting is that Aziraphale never needed all that much time to be convinced of something. It only took Crowley so much time because he was pushing his buttons blindly until something worked. Because he didn't know what the right one was, and when he had only one chance he would always push the wrong one.

So, how does Aziraphale make decisions?

He chooses what he thinks is right.

Yes, it can get rather complicated. On the one hand, he is heavily indoctrinated, and it impacts his judgment. He can just embrace the most ridiculous piece of celestial propaganda on occasion and stick to it stubbornly. On the other hand, we know that his sense of right and wrong isn't really tied to Heaven or even God. We know because we've seen choices he'd made in the Job minisode.

But while it may not be easy to predict what Aziraphale will deem right in any given situation, the fact remains that this is what it comes down to. This is what ultimately informs his choices, especially the big ones, and the most effective way to persuade Aziraphale to do something is by proving to him that it would be the right thing to do. Or that the other option wouldn't.

I don't think Crowley realizes it. And there's a good reason why.

A great many choices aren't about right and wrong. They're just choices between two equally neutral options. Sometimes two equally ambivalent options. Either way, not really moral choices.

The problem with Aziraphale is that while he's managing perfectly fine small morally neutral choices, he's not very good with big ones. I believe that he expects all big choices to be moral choices and he has trouble making them when they're not. I've seen quite a few posts here arguing that Aziraphale is incapable of choosing his own happiness for its own sake, and I wholeheartedly agree.

And Crowley doesn't understand it.

He's not that far off the mark when the choice really is a moral one. When he was trying to convince Aziraphale to the Arrangement his arguments were about how the end result would be the same, ie. how it wouldn't be wrong. When he was trying to convince Aziraphale to kill Adam, he was pointing out how it would save everybody.

But when the choice isn't inherently a moral one, he doesn't understand why it's difficult for Aziraphale.

And in the most dire situations, he doesn't understand he could maybe try and go this route.

[d0v3uae]

okay, i was just rewatching season 4, and i realized something, remember this scene in the airport right in the beginning of the series? Mike says “i handpicked those for you in Hawkins” most likely he got those from the field that we also saw in the end of this season, and the one of the very first scenes in season 3. now, i was watching the very last episode, and the very last scene, and i noticed when el was walking forward, she picked up dead flowers, specifically the same colors Mike got her as a gift back in the beginning (yellow and purple). this means the fall/deadness of their relationship, because as we already know, they are NOT on good terms. i mean i really tried to like their ship, but i just cant see it without being toxic, and having communication issues for example: El felt the need to lie about her life and Lenora, and how she had friends, and everything was good. why would she need to lie? shouldnt they trust each other and tell each other things like this? And back in the beginning when Mike tells Lucas that they dont want to be popular, and the airport scene when El says that she wants burritos for breakfast, Mike says something like “really? no i mean i trust you,” that scene to me meant that Mike was very awkward, and not acting like himself. and not to mention but Mikes outfit was not himself AT ALL. Argyle says “oh no its a shitty knockoff,” meaning again, that mike is acting like someone hes not in front of his girlfriend.

now, i wanna talk about the roller rink incident, because there is a LOT more stuff going on then what it seems. so basically Mike and Will are fighting while trying to find El, and Will says “well what about us?” and Will DID NOT mean this romantically, but Mike took this romantically?! Will meant it as “Ok i get it, you have a girlfriend, but what about our friendship?” Mike took it as romantic, which is why he said “We’re friend! We’re friends!” and the fact that he said it two times is also insane, and his tone of voice when he said it was so tense almost. when people in other shows/movies say they are just friends, they most if the time end up as an endgame couple. for example: the office, Jim and Pam, they both had crushes on each other throughout the first seasons, but oh look they were an endgame couple, and even got married. what im trying to say is, Mike took it romantically, when Will didnt.

And another thing with this fight, is that as soon as Mike said “We’re friends” the song “in the closet” started playing, and some people think “oh its because Els in a closet” which yes, in a way, but it was an employee’s shed. and also this song started playing RIGHT AFTER Mike assured that they were “just friends” little sketchy right? And i also just wanted to point out that after Mike said that, he saw Wills face and immediately knew he made him sad, and we can see the tension in his face almost disappeared.

now right after the skate incident, El, Mike and Will were all standing there in a triangle if i may point out, but anyways, we can see Will reacted normally, he said “oh my god..” but Mike reacted very aggressively towards it. and the camera pans over to El sitting alone at a table, and Mike and Will are right next to each other. really quickly, i wanna point a few things out. when angela takes el onto the rink, we can see Mike not care, hes just like “meh” but Will knows, so he stands up and says “oh no” which directly after he says that, he stands up so quickly, but this is weird for me. because Mike can sense when something is wrong with Will, but not El. because we see that when angela comes over to the table they are sitting at, it is very tense but Mike doesnt really notice, but Mike notices when something is wrong with Will almost IMMEDIATELY. and this is proven back in s2. so Will is closing his locker and Mike says something like “come on” and Will looks worried or even tense, and Mike immediately notices, because he says “what” many times and not to mention in his soft voice that he only uses for Will. so i think this means Mike understands Will and Will understands Mike.

i think this might be foreshadowing to the break up to Mike and El in season 5. so, once again. BYLER ENDGAME!!

[darkstarofchaos]

Yet more EarthSpark S2 spoilers.

And now for some general thoughts about the season itself.

Where was Nightshade during all this? They are a main character, why did they not have so much as a subplot in another character's focus episode? People talk about Thrash getting sidelined, but he had a whole episode plus a paired episode with Twitch. Nightshade is barely there, and when they are, it's either a battle scene or sharing the scientific spotlight with Wheeljack.

Speaking of Thrash, I liked his episode. I would like to think finding a random Quintesson on earth and then shooting it into space will have repercussions later in the season, especially with the Quint lore in the final episode. But now that the Decepticons are just flat and evil, I might not even watch that far.

Why are the Decepticons interchangeable now? Starscream and Shockwave are the only ones allowed a personality beyond "smash stuff". And yes, I'm counting Breakdown in that, because he's a shadow of his former self, and the whole thing with him being a parent to Aftermath got dropped after five minutes. And you know, I might be giving Shockwave too much credit, because disagreeing with your leader on one course of action isn't a personality trait. And Starscream's ultimate goal is apparently just smash stuff. So you know what, I'll amend that, why do none of the Decepticons have a personality beyond smash stuff?

Like. Twitch ends up in the Decepticon base in the guise of Spitfire, and we don't get a single characterization moment. I guess the Cons all just stand and snarl at each other when they aren't on missions.

On the other hand, I don't understand why so many people were confused that the Decepticons were following Starscream, because why wouldn't they? He seems to have been doing a fine job, judging by the number of Emberstone shards the Cons had. I get that most Starscreams can't get support to save their lives (often through no fault of their own), but the Decepticons here seem to have no reason not to follow him.

Moving on from the Decepticons, I'd have to call the trailer episode and the carnival episode the worst of the lot. The whole subplot with Robbie having a crush was the most uncomfortable thing I've had to sit through in a while, and I would not voluntarily watch it again. And the trailer episode was just tedious. I get having something more relaxed in between the Spitfire two-parter and the finale, but couldn't they have found any other plot for it? People rag on the bear episode, but at least that had a nice little lesson about not messing with people's prostheses rolled in. This episode was just. Nothing. But it did come with a distinct lack of squicky "feeling your brother's crush through your psychic bond" stuff, so I'll give it that it's rewatchable.

Okay, this was a problem with S1 too, but that psychic bond has to go. It's creepy and invasive, and it's only going to get more so as the humans get older and start exploring adult relationships. At least give them some way to close it or otherwise shield themselves from it (it's also a constant plot hole, because characters often end up in danger that the others somehow don't notice. Like, is there a range on this psychic thing? How far apart do they have to be before they can't feel each other anymore? This thing is not explained well enough, and I don't see why it even needs to exist).

Assorted episode nitpicks:

That is not how you dispose of hard drives. Why did you not wipe them before recycling.

No food ever touches the plates on the dinner table in the Quintesson episode. I am unreasonably bothered by this.

How did none of the adults think to address Spitfire's insistence on being part of the mission by pointing out that Twitch is older and more experienced than her? Like, yeah, Spitfire probably wouldn't have cared, but someone should still have put their foot down and said she can't go on a mission until she's had some training.

Megatron, you are the only non-participant who can fly and the final stretch of that obstacle course was over a ravine. Why were you not in a position where you could quickly help out if someone fell? Twitch wouldn't have had to go back to save Alex herself and the whole thing with Spitfire being mad because she crossed the finish line first wouldn't have happened if you had positioned yourself more strategically.

Actually, Megatron proposed the race, Megatron wasn't close enough to be helpful during the race, and Megatron said they needed to let Twitch and Spitfire sort things out themselves, which resulted in Twitch getting bodyswapped. Every problem in this episode was Megatron's fault. Optimus, why are you not vetoing any of this? Why are you just standing there and letting Megatron pit kids against each other? You're a leader, do some leading!

On the other hand, Megatron wanting to resolve everything by letting the arguing parties fight it out is on brand for him, so like. Kudos for characterization, now get an adult in here.

[warsamongthestars]

Honestly you are so right. I never thought about it like that.

Having recently rewatch TBB from their introduction episode in TCW, i kept going "what the hell".

Admittingly, i did NOT like them at first. I enjoyed the other clones, but i just.. couldn't care until after s1 of TBB and even then, only S2 made me fall in love and S3 made me dwell deeper.

But rewatching TCW episodes... i can see why. Its not just that its different writing, that whole episode was INCREDIBLY cheesy, they were cheesy. And whats funny is i don't think they're too bad after their introduction episode.. but its like. They all fit into their sterotypes first episode, but TBB actually gave them personalities i feel, so when rewatching their introduction... it feels.. Not super iconic, sorry if that is an unpopular opinion.

Like their poses and first fight is really cool, but the whole conversation they have not only implies what you said, but also comes off as "edgelord 10 y/o boy who has watched way too many adventure movies". Which i get they were trying to be show offs as well as show the audience they are extreme.

But it just.. comes across as goofy to me.

and to be clear, i know star wars in general can be seen as cheesy, I'm not knocking down cheesy-ness, and i love most TCW episodes new and old, but i think thats why it bothers me ? I don't remember feeling "oh thats cheesy" in a negative light in any other episode, even with other series.

Sorry that this got long !!!!!

Damn, first ask. XD

Thank you for that! But uh...

... The irony here is that I have to disagree. I liked them in TCWs over TBB, and I wanted to see more of what the TCWshow's BBs had to offer.

I went the old fashioned way of watching TCWs (For the clones, I don't care that much about Jedi stories), and by the time I reached S7, they were announcing TBBshow. I had the build up from that, to reach the momentum and when I made it to the Bad Batch Arc, it was like falling in love with clones all over again.

Cliche in function, yes, by all viewing they fullfill their cliches.

But let me point out something that occurs in character writing--How the character acts to their friends, will be different with how the character acts to their coworkers, and how they act to their own families, to how they act to strangers. This is part of how you create a 3-Dimensional Character.

So my interpretation is different. Here's how my thought process went.

What we saw in TCWs, was merely how the BBs act when acting under officers (Coworkers) they didn't know (Strangers).

( Wrecker starts enthusiastic but "dumb" muscle, but as the Arc went on, he actually mellowed out. Showing that while he's excitable, he's not actually as excitable as what he introduced himself as. He's clever not "dumb muscle", he's multi-capable (he's the second pilot of the Marauder), he's in more control of himself than anyone on the team (hence that when he lifts Jesse up, Jesse is fine afterwards, when by that point we've seen that he lifts ships--he could've easily hurt Jesse but he didn't))

Given they don't look or act like clones, and looking and acting like clones is expected in their position or risk removal, they were effectively playing themselves up as their "cliches" in order to sell their skills and avoid unnecessary or even dangerous questions.

( Hunter is constantly snarky and never directly answers anything about "who you report to" or "how many missions you were on". But at the start, he was promoting the hell out of his unit's capabilities. )

The Bad Batch were a series of characters that bounced off each other beautifully. Its something everyone noticed about them.

(From Crosshair using Tech's shoulder as a mount, to Wrecker tossing Hunter up, to Hunter and Crosshair's subtle backing each other up, to Wrecker quoting Tech. )

Their group dynamics are part of their greatest strength as a set of characters.

With the introduction of Echo, who unlike in TBB, Echo was enthusiastic and clever and crafty, with a playful sense of humor (not unlike how he started as a character in TCWs).

You've got an excellent addition to a group that already has strong character dynamics.

Echo, having been an Audience Surrogate Character for Clones in TCWs, would've easily been the main POV of whatever BB show came out of TCWs. Because he can ask the questions the audience would ask, and Echo is a familiar character with years of backing that the audience would be familiar with.

So you're right, in my book, about TCWshow. Though how I view how right you are is different because of my subtext.

The Bad Batch Arc of TCWs was a Good, if a bit trippy, Start, and not a finisher for the team. After all, all introductions tend to be rather clumsy (just ask TCWs' pilot film).

Which laid in the implication that we're going to Get that Finisher. And the journey.

But when we hit TBB... Then turned the nuance surface of TCWs Bad Batch, and either cut it out, or dumbed it down, or in two cases, changed it entirely.

( TCWs Hunter was a snarky worrywort who let his brothers do the actions while he stays in the corner, but he's dragged out because he's the "Sergeant". TBB Hunter is a stoic quiet type who wants order and control. TCWs Hunter and TBB Hunter are two entirely different characters. In fact, if I may speculate fan wise, TBB Hunter would be the kind of person that would cause TCWs Hunter to Shutdown... and we have evidence of this from TCWs; where Rex gets into Hunter's face, and Hunter shutsdown entirely until after the scene change. )

( Wrecker got dumbed down. That Explosive Enthusiasm he played up, became his defining feature (They effectively pulled a misfandom on their own original creation). While they did show he does have vulnerabilities and some of that TCWs cleverness... it often got overshadowed. )

( They removed Crosshair and broke the group dynamic, destroying the strongest part of their characters, which was their interactions with each other. )

( Echo went from Enthusiastic, Clever and Humor, to Just Bitchy. They didn't bring back his other facet at all. And mid way through TBB, they removed his character--effectively making anything about him a moot point. It nullified his introduction into the BBs )

( And I'm not going to go into a tyraid here about Omega. )

And suddenly, there wasn't any nuance anymore, because the BBs acted the same everywhere they went. There wasn't any developments, because the BBs didn't discuss anything for the audience to know.

Maybe a dramatic glance in the distance--but that's more Cliche than their character archetypes. Character Archetypes, no matter how obvious, can shift and change as they Develop.

But there's no character developing in TBB that doesn't involve how the show broke what made them strong characters to begin with.

Its like trying to make a house, but the foundation is the ceiling and attic, and the "ceiling" is the 3000 tons of solid fucking concrete.

The story, which was about how the Empire rose from the Republic, was literally elsewhere, so there was nothing that spurred the characters to do anything that involved the plot.

Now as you can prolly guess by this point, I'm very very keen on Character Driven stories, and I pay attention to character. While I treat all things as a "fan-fiction" (Given that fan-fiction shows the effort it takes to create a story or create anything), when it comes to officially published stuffed--so with teams, and a budget, and hired people to do the work--I expect the "fan-fiction" to go up in quality, to follow the format and standard set up and simply either stick to it or surpass it.

I think TBBshow was too clumsy, too fragmented, and far too shiny, for what it had. Having a small part of the metaphorical quilt work, doesn't subtract from the fact that the rest of the quilt is full of holes.

Have small good points, I'm afraid, doesn't make up for the fact that it was overall, a poorly written show that bites its prior series' hand.

It just means that, now, you have to steal the good points to add to whatever BBsquad exists in one's mind.

You take the part of the quilt that works... and make your own Quilt, and damn whoever fucked up the first job.

[mysteriouslybluepirate]

Just did a rewatch of OFMD S2 Eps 6/7 and: (Yes, it DEFINITELY got better)

*All pacing issues and some cast being in scenes when others aren't is the fault of the studios being cheap and not the writers/creators. :) Flying the cast to New Zealand + housing them for filming meant some crew just couldn't be there (Fang, Roach, Olu) or mostly written out (Buttons, Swede).

The reason this season feels *weird* is just that. It is not the fault of the actors or any of the workers in New Zealand who got jobs because they were the cheaper, nonunion, option.

I was mainly mad due to some pacing things that, after I thought about it, I don't think *I* was ready for them to make jokes about, if that makes sense. Izzy is such a personal character for me that some of the stuff they joke about just...hits.

*While the show kind of blowing off Izzy's repressed feelings for Ed did originally piss me off (the 'jealous' comment from Ed in ep 7 especially), reframing the scenes as Izzy letting himself mourn this and seeing how easily he lets Ed go does make me happy. He will love Ed. That's just a fact. But he is not his relationship with Ed he is defined by what he does with it. Yes, they can joke about it. Izzy has probably defined their relationship as something that just can't happen. Either by thinking Ed could never love him or that Ed never cared. Izzy knew Ed's attention was always fleeting and MAYBE that's some BS way we can say eps 5, 6, and 7 happened within a few days of each other. Because...if Izzy is just repressing everything again. I swear. This show will not give me the polycule I want.

*Stede and Izzy work so fucking well as friends. Like. Izzy knows how Stede will use the bar as validation and is READY to fight for him. Stede knows Izzy will stand to fight with him. The way Izzy looks so DONE when Stede starts to fight? Izzy just lost Ed god damn it. That, and the thigh grab will be in my head forever... stizzy fans also win.

*Imagine having sex with the only person you've ever loved and they ditch the next day. Add that to Stede's own insecurities and it's like the writers had a checklist on how to break Stede Bonnet.

*Ed is leaving a manic period (started maybe ep 2), and entering a depressive period in episode 6 where he remembers 'oh yeah, I fucking hate pirating'.

*Both Stede and Ed want very different things in life and this conflict was always going to happen. But at the begining of ep 6 we see Ed replaying the abuse he's caused/experienced. He's mentally framing himself as a hazard. Stede enjoys the life Ed is desperately running from. This is why Izzy is so quick to grab Stede I think. To help him understand that Ed is just...a complicated man.

*Izzy was right about Ed needing to give Stede some time to sit with the death of Ned Low. Ed barging in allowed Stede to put his negative feelings into something positive, not fully allowing him to process his actions. Ed then uses their first time as an excuse to run away.

*Izzy is hot in both episodes :) End note. But for me, the reason the Drag scene felt weird on first watch is just that I can't read half the cast's face soemtimes. Its a me thing. On this rewatch I noticed them cheering and generally being more supportive, lol.

*I wish we got to see Izzy putting the drag makeup on. Even just a line of concealer. Putting on the character he'd embody for the night. Drag is such a practice of self realizion and community. I wish we got to see Izzy staring at himself, applying the mark on his face that he clearly loves so much.

*The concept of Ned Low- A vicious torture-focused pirate, sadly was handled like a minor inconvenience, and... while I like the masochism joke from Izzy, and the implications for Stede's arc, he felt weird and out of place. Like. Instead of tying Low's bad management to something like the Navy, why not the Kraken? The stuff was there for it. Show how shitty working on a ship that prioritizes violence is, and mirror it with Ed's growth.

*I love the ship design for Ep 6 so much.

*The Ed&Izzy apology still bugs me but I have hope Izzy and Ed will talk it out a bit more after talks with some of the lovelies online

*I love the crew but acknowledge that this season has shafted a lot of stories. Clearly, the writers did what they could.

*Izzy's 'love interest' this season is clearly just the 'community/self' and finding comfort in humanity again...its so GOOD.

*Izzy casually making sex jokes is so weird. Like a coworker you've known for a few years that finally starts talking shit with you on the job. It feels weird to me now, but I also write him like this? So it's a lot of wires crossing in my mind. Like...he FUCKS!

*Same with Izzy smiling. It feels wrong in the best way. Again, I wish we had ONE MORE episode of Izzy being in the middle of healing, but this more self-realized Izzy is lovely to watch.

*They changed the gender of the song Izzy sings so he's singing about a man. I will not be normal about this.

*I'm so happy I caught Izzy's hand being that FUCKING HIGH on Stede's inner leg first watch. It's changed me. Izzy really said 'When the dogs are away the cats are out to play' and POUNCED.

*I didn't catch Izzy pointedly calling Stede captain until I saw it online and now I love it. Stede adopted the stray cat and god damn he'll stay loyal until the day he dies.

*Spoilers for the teaser: If the series Ends and Izzy is in solitary confinement/Izzy is locked away from the others I will scream

*"Hiya, Boys" I LOVE HIM. Izzy confidently grinning and being a prick is my favorite.

*izzy loving Ed enough to let him go is just....so tragic and good. Especially since we know Ed just tried to hold izzy closer in s1

[chirpsythismorning]

Hi.what make you believe byler is endgame and how do you think The Duffer will make them endgame?

There's a lot of different factors for why I believe byler is endgame. If it was only one or two or three or a single digit amount of things, then I'd probably be more skeptical. Instead it's so many things that I don't think I can even quantify with any number?

Long post ahead so queue for later if you must!

I used to ship milkvan back in the day, and that's probably because I watched the show once and fell for the whole boy meets girl trope as peak romance, without even thinking about it? Like my first time rewatching the show pre-s3, I remember only focusing on their scenes and even going as far as to skip entire episodes in s2 without them in it, so it's really no wonder I missed details that might have helped me understand the full picture.

I also don't get queer-baited, like ever. I have watched shows like Teen Wolf where fans loved sterek, and even though that show had a gay show-runner, it was obvious to me they were never going that route, despite kind of feeding fans over the years with banter between them. The problem was the details weren't pointing to them being endgame, they were pointing to stydia. With stydia, they were using color coding in their costumes and had the fucking red string of fate in the frame with them multiple times and they were having entire plot lines built up around sort of their feelings for each other. Then there's all the other shows out there like Supernatural and Sherlock, and to me, it just felt like two guys that had chemistry that fans read as romantic and were having fun with it, only for the writers to try to profit off of that hope fans had, just sort of fucking with fans for years without really going for it literally in the text of the story.

And even if they did (albeit extremely subtly) that's when you would see shows tend to kill off the characters. Because after years of queer-baiting, the only solution is to kill at least one off, after tricking a sector of your audience for so long. Because unfortunately, no, they're not going to end up together, so we just have to get rid of one of them to make it clear that it won't happen.

While I don't vividly remember the moment I dropped Milkvan and picked up byler, I do remember watching s3 for the first time and feeling like something was off. And then to humor my confusion, I went online and came across an analysis for the end of s3. Even though it did really made me think like 'woah.. what was that?', in the moment, I was still in a position to not want to fall for it because of all the queer-baiting out there. I'd never fallen for it before and I wasn't going to start now basically.

And then I didn't read any more theories after that, I just basically jumped into rewatching the show for fun again, without really thinking about it even, and without skipping this time. And I vividly remember the shed scene definitely had some romantic undertones going on. When the camera was focused on Mike talking to Will, we didn't get any reaction shots in between of Joyce and Jonathan. Whereas when Joyce and Jonathan talked to Will, we got Mike's reaction and both Jonathan and Joyce's kind of reactions to each others speeches in that moment, which was to obviously convey the familial bond going on. And so in contrast, seeing Mike's monologue to Will be isolated, without any cuts to the others reactions during, with intense close-ups of Mike and Will, with Mike literally having one by one teardrops falling down his face and him repeating softly you said yes, you said yes... That... Like it made me really start to consider it in that moment, based on my new potential understanding of the end of s3 and based on what I had found upon rewatching that time.

Even still though, I didn't let myself believe it. And maybe in large part it was bc I did like the idea of byler I guess? And so that made me want to be more cautious? Other times when I came across fans shipping queer pairings that weren't canon, it felt like harmless shipping to me, where like I got the appeal, but didn't like feel genuine intentional slow-burn chemistry? It was always a thing that at most I liked merely as fanon. And so I guess I was trying to prepare myself for that inevitable disappointment that it wasn't going to go any further than what it had?

Maybe it was also because I was holding onto this idea of milkvan I had at the beginning? An idea that in large part contributed to my ability to get hooked with the show in the first place? Boy meets girl is like the most universal trope in our society and it was easy to just go along with it when everyone else was.

But more than anything I do think it was because I thought it just had to be queer-bait like it's always has been. At best I thought maybe it would continue very vaguely in the subtext in s4, with like 1 or two scenes at most hinting at attraction? But we all know that's not what happened..

S4 promo dropped, and I remember being like well here goes. It had been over a year, almost two since I'd been exposed to the possiblity of byler, though I was going into it prepared to see Mike and El being perfectly in love and that they were just going to act like nothing had ever happened between Mike and Will.

But then that Cali poster dropped. And that had me reeling. I remember sending a text to my sister like 'QUEER-BAIT?' and she was like yep queer-bait. But that's also because she's in the mindset of someone that hasn't seen anything outside of watching the show, and while half paying attention at that. This is the first piece of evidence she is being presented with and so of course she is viewing it from a don't hope or assume that could ever happen bc it never happens lens.

Even that I took as maybe a reality check, that this meant nothing, but also at the same time, this is the Duffer Brothers? They're smart? Why would they apply the if boy is pointing his feet at you he is in love with you rule via New Girl, with Mike and Will in the Cali poster, for shits and giggles? When the whole point in those posters is to hide foreshadowing?

Regardless of how much it genuinely shocked me they were appearing to really play with this concept of Mike having romantic feelings for Will, I still didn't fully let myself think about it too much...

And then as s4 got closer and more stuff dropped and there was like a lot of promo hinting Will having feelings for Mike, that's when it really kicked in for me. And that's when I went back and rewatched and holy shit it suddenly became clear as fucking day. My excitement for Vol. 1 was insurmountable because I was just about to have all of these recent built up theories confirmed or denied.

When Vol. 1 finally premiered and it turned out Mike couldn't say I love you to El? And Will very clearly had feelings for Mike, staring at him constantly when he wasn't looking and conveniently with Mike's POV missing by comparison? There was just too much at play that perfectly set-up byler.

Mike having a hard time telling El he loves her, while also having a best friend beside him who is in love with him, like, that's sort of what makes it clear that this is them trying to create a conflict that easily transitions into this revelation that the reason why Mike couldn't commit to El was because he was struggling over repressed feelings for his best friend.

And then that doesn't even include all the details along the way that support it. Like closet scenes for example weren't able to be harmless anymore post-s3, they just weren't. That scene at the end with El and Mike in Will's room established this idea that Mike is in the closet, and s4 did not let up on that idea whatsoever.

We were being bombarded with very basic film techniques that any filmmaker would be thinking about to establish the story and setting and create a feeling to convey a message through all of that.

They did not need to have Mike sitting in front of his closet at the very start of s4. They did not have to have a one way sign pointing to it. They did not have to have two dudes with muscles on his walls while most of the other guys either have stuff completely unrelated to the human form or bikini clad woman. They did not have to show Mike in focus more while staring at Eddie fondly as he talks about DnD and getting out of Hawkins. They did not have to have Mike go searching for DnD replacements in the wrestling room and the art room followed by saying, I hate high school.

The I hate high school line is viewed by most of us as a throw away comedic sort of line. But it really isn't. In fact it's arguably as deep as without heart we'd all fall apart, which is why they literally had that be Mike's quote alongside that one being Will's quote for the season.

Mind you, all of this shit in 4x01 is happening after Mike just episodes ago, in the previous season, sort of treated playing DnD like it was something kids did and told Will he felt this way, by essentially saying he assumed they'd be getting girlfriends and moving on from this idea that they can play games for the rest of their lives.

So Mike in s3 went from I want to grow up and have a girlfriend and stop playing dnd bc it is childish, to in s4 Do you want to play with me? I will literally settle for an absolute stranger rn, literally anyone? No? Uh. I hate high school aka I don't want to grow up. Now he thinks that he's the childish one when really, it doesn't have to be, if he just opened his mind to it.

Watching s3-4 back to back is actually so real bc it's showcasing Mike's complete shift, a shift that basically got flipped from s1-2 to s3 to s3 to s4, and it's directly related to his relationship with El and Will (along with his parents who all of s2 punished him by taking away his toys when he acted out bc of trauma/called his toys hunks of plastic and to essentially be used as collateral bc he's going to need to grow up eventually anyways). And we see how that is conveyed when he shows up to Cali unlike his true self, he just reverts right back to trying to be someone else like in s3. Only now he's trying to pull off a Cali look on-top of it, wearing sunglasses as he mumbles an incoherent sound, something like, 'eahauw' as he rushes up to kiss and hug El, putting the flowers between them so he had an excuse to separate sooner than later, followed actually voicing words to will, moving his duffel back out of the way to hug will properly, w/out sunglasses, visibly very happy to see Will, only to not even be able to hug him by cutting it short. AND for Argyle to confirm our suspicions by calling him a knock off?? NOW I'M REALIZING IT'S TOO MUCH YELLOW? Come on!?

That's another thing, the end of s3 hug between Will and Mike literally ends with Mike looking like he is in physical pain. Like dude looks like he was burned. He looks like a mixture of angry and heartbroken. And so having that, followed up with Mike barely even being able to properly hug Will properly 2 episodes later..? Gee I wonder why?

And then it just spirals from there.

The entire season Mike is by definition emotionally cheating on El, assuming that they are even technically still together atp. There's a reason they had her say From El, and it's so that there was this sense of maybe they were technically broken up now or even just on a break rn, since they wouldn't see each other for who knows how long? Maybe never again? And so that was a writing choice made in large part to allow all of these moments between Mike and Will throughout the season to feel romantic coded and for us to comfortably view them as such. Same with how they did that with Jonathan and Nancy in s2. They create conflict that is near breakup territory, without outright saying I want to break up, and then they throw them with their other love interest and create tension.

When it comes to like how I think s5 could go down with byler, I have a few different thoughts about how that would play out. Obviously I love byler but there's a lot of other stuff going on so this would just be one aspect of the greater overall story. But for the sake of this post I'm going to focus on Byler possibilities.

Them holding off until Vol. 2, literally 2 weeks exactly after the premiere, to have Noah officially release a statement saying We now know Will is 100% gay and in love with Mike, that is them clearly knowing the gravity of revealing stuff too soon to an audience that might not be ready for it. They saw the reaction to s4 and they waited and then they made that choice to discuss it the way they did. That was the point they decided they were willing to tell the truth of the situation, including Noah admitting for the first time, that they've been hinting at Will's feelings since s1, and so he had to always be vague about things to avoid spoiling the Duffers surprise. And while they're doing this, when they talk about Mike's feelings about the situation, it is always that he has absolutely no idea.

There would be no justifiable reason to hold off on admitting Will's feelings for Mike outside of canon, only to admit they've been hinting at it since s1, if there wasn't actually something yet to see be revealed, making this revelation so late in the game, justifiable.

The main thing that we get from Mike being oblivious of Will's feelings, is that if Mike doesn't know, then technically he hasn't rejected Will yet. Because how can he have rejected Will if he has no idea? Answer, he can't!

And so now there is one season left and they are choosing to hold off on Mike's knowledge about Will's feelings? After they just finally admitted after 4 seasons that they've been avoiding telling us about Will's feelings, despite hints from the beginning because they didn't want to ruin the surprise?

What surprise though bro? Slow-burn unrequited love??? There isn't any such thing. Because that wouldn't be satisfying!

It takes us right back to the line Will makes in s3 (mid-series) to Joyce about how he's never gonna fall in love. It's not that he doesn't want to or even hasn't yet at all, it's that he doesn't believe experiencing mutual love with the person he has feelings for is in the cards for him, bc odds are, that person is going to be straight.

But... How is it satisfying to hold off on even admitting Will's feelings for Mike until the second to last season, only to hold off on Mike's POV of the situation until the last season, just to say at the last minute, Well, Will, you were right!...? Like, no.

And so I genuinely think the same thing they did with Will is happening to Mike in a sense, in that by sort of dancing around the situation with answers that don't even allow you to answer the question, by saying Mike is clueless, they can avoid delving into what exactly Mike would think. They can just say Oh of course he will accept Will and leave it at that.

The thing is, if I'm supposed to be rooting for Mike and El, these choices that they've been making, to practically infect all of their scenes with Will in the frame looking like a kicked puppy, it's not giving endgame, it's giving I should be praying for this kid to get a happy ending who is fully convinced that he won't get it.

The main question I have, is are they going to hold off the slow-burn for as long as they can, or are they going to do something unprecedented and make it happen sooner than anyone expects?

I guess for now I think that it's the most likely they will hold off until 5x07 for like the big obvious endgame moment? Slow-burn tends to thrive in it's true form, aka slow-burn until the very end. So it would make sense to have these barriers in place that prevent Mike and Will from truly realizing they have mutual feelings or something of that nature, and then acting on it. That doesn't mean the audience wouldn't be clued in on those feelings earlier in the season, but I think them both accepting those feelings and coming together and choosing to be together is something that won't be like established fully until the end.

THOUGH I will say there is one scenario I could see them manage to have Mike and Will realize those feelings sooner than we think and it's because of the satanic allegations... If Will and Mike were to ever get caught in a precarious situation, by someone in the town already accusing these kids of being the cause, specifically Mike as a member of Hellfire and specifically Will as the kid who has been connected to all of this, it would be sort of visceral seeing how that could play out with them being viewed as like a symbolic indicator of the incoming apocalypse.

Though then again, they still might not get together until like episode 7, bc with the last couple episodes being like 2 hours long, it's possible the homophobic/satanic aspect of it could come into play around then. I think it would be really critical to see other peoples reactions in the story to them getting together, including their family and friends, but also potentially the community bc that would go full circle with what went down in s1 and how like the whole community had an opinion about Will's sexuality even as a kid.

Early s5 is a big indicator of how everything will go down though. I don't think that they'll get separated and be apart the whole season, bc they made a point to convey in s4 that they want to make sure to give the audience a lot of groundwork to root for them and so I think s5 has to be much of the same for it to end in a way that has most of the audience full-on rooting for them and just screaming at their screen for them to kiss already.

However, I do think it's possible we could see them get separated for like 1 episode, maybe 2 but probably not 2 full episodes, I think the reunion would happen sometime at the end of 1 or 2 episodes.

I think Will is likely going to be targeted by Vecna, arguably already was at the end of s4, and then there's birthdaygate to address. Maybe he gets forgotten by everyone as a result of the memory/time trickery that Vecna has going on. And so we could see that play a role in them being separate for a bit while that is resolved, which would likely be early s5, to sort of mirror early s1. But then I think they would reunite by like the 3rd episode and work together most of the season as a team. And we will probably be aware of Mike's feelings in these moments because we would've just presumably gotten a bunch of parallels to s1 and considering Mike and El are broken up, it's going to be difficult to see Mike be so up in arms about Will after all of that romantic subtext, only to be with him and be looking at him like he hung the stars and shit. Even if Will isn't doing the same bc he's like convinced himself at this point Mike doesn't like him back, that would just make it even more clear bc it would be them finally showing us Mike's POV, after hiding it so much in s3-4. It would also sort of wake up those fans who had insisted Mike couldn't feel the same bc there would be no reason to do all of that for nothing.

Another way I could see it going down is by Mike basically somehow making 'a deal with god' (Vecna) that takes him instead. Maybe it's about saving Will who is trying to sacrafice himself already. Or maybe it's a way to save Max and it's sort of a last minute thing that is intended to cause them a lot of grief. Bc we know Vecna loves fucking with them. This would fit into the whole without heart we'd all fall apart, and the whole how am I gonna survive a whole week w/out you guys and Mike getting out in the DND game at the start of s4, along with like the whole theory about how if a paladin breaks an oath they basically have to go on a mini self discovery journey and can essentially be reinstated and forgiven by a cleric (Will). That would fit very very well into the imagery we got of Mike sitting down on Jonthan's bed with the upside down tapestry behind him, followed by Will sitting down beside him + Mike sitting down on the upside down couch at the cabin, followed by Will sitting down beside him. Meaning basically Mike would end up in the upside down and Will would follow behind him.

And I think in that scenario we might be seeing some things from Mike's POV that we have overlooked before, or maybe even things they have deliberately kept from us for the sake of saving it for later. Maybe that unused footage of him crying biking home after they found Will's body, or maybe they re-contextualize the cliff scene in a way that sort of frames Mike as feeling like he deserved to die that day bc after everything that happened with El, maybe he doesn't feel like he deserved to be saved by her, like Vecna just overwhelms him with the guilt that's been piling up for years, which led him to that failed monologue.

Also I think there is a very specific reason they chose to not use the song Time After Time in Max's memory of the Snow Ball in s4, and that's because they're saving it for s5. Every Breath You Take was regarded by most the fandom as a Milkvan song, and if anything it fit with all of them dancing more than it did specifically with Max's memory from that day. So them bringing that back for s4 felt like a combination of the Vecna foreshadowing and also them refusing to use Time After Time quite yet... Time After Time started playing right when Lucas asked her to dance, they easily could have used that song instead and left Every Breath You Take for s5 for a milkvan montage, hell Time After Time even would have fit well with the whole clock theme going on in s4.

But, I genuinely think it's because they're holding off on fully, in canon, re-contextualizing our understanding of that Snow Ball scene when it comes to Mike and Will's perspective of it. And how that song would fit into that revelation is a little to perfect to pass up, again on a show that has made a big deal about clocks and also has connected Will/Mike to the clock in Starcourt with the Yellow and Blue hands ie you say go slow I fall behind-- the second hand unwinds is fucking clock coded bro???

They are 100% saving that clock ass song for the end and that just tells me byler has to be endgame bc that song literally ended right before El entered the gym, it has no association to them, only to either Lucas/Max, Dustin/Nancy, or Mike/Will. That's it.

And so arguably the build up of Mike and Will is the only way to satisfyingly bring that song back full circle.

I guess I'll keep it simple and say that I think one of them are going to go missing/dissapear/be taken (something along those lines) early s5, and the other is going to find them and they're going to be a team basically. I think there could be 1-2 episodes of them alone sort of in the pits of the UD (Hell vibes). Maybe there's an almost kiss in those moments, or maybe even an official one bc them being alone finally is what grants them the courage to do what they haven't been able to do in the real world without the fears of the real world stopping them?

Though I do think that they will reunite with the others after 1-2 episodes alone. And so most of the season will be them teamed up with the og party and also having interactions with other characters along the way as well.

I do think a Murray/Byler confrontation is inevitable. I do think a Will & Robin confrontation is inevitable. I do think it's possible Mike could be exposed to the idea of having a gf then a bf (and vs) by Vickie in the case that Mike finds out bisexuality is real and an option. Bc tbh it's still something people today don't know about. So I don't think Mike Wheeler in 1986 Hawkins, Indiana would, though again maybe an interaction with Vickie could change that. Either that or Robin, Vickie and Steve are going to see Mike call Fast Times overrated and they're all going to share a look and that's when we'll know...

I do think that Will is going to have a hard time believing Mike could feel the same, even when presented with evidence? Not only does he have his insecurities in the way, but he also views El as his sister now (hell she might even actually turn out to be his twin). Even though Mike is his best friend, he's going to want it to be crystal clear that El supports it before Mike ends up being in their family via them being partners at some point. That's just who Will is as a character. He's just going to assume he is wrong for wanting that considering everything that has led up to this point.

And i think El is the kind of character that, no, she wont be like ecstatic about how this all played out and how she didn't need to get her heartbroken, but I don't think that feeling will last forever. I think they might have a little sibling talk about lying, assuming she finds out about the painting and what he said to Mike about her commissioning it. That would be a good parallel to her and Will at Rink-O-Mania when he chastised her for lying to Mike? Essentially an Oh how the turntables moment? Even so, when it's all said and done, she's going to make it clear to Will that she supports him fully.

And I think the same applies to Mike who also is going to want closure that they are okay and still friends and love each other as friends/family.

I think how all of this plays out would be very intricate, yes, but largely keeping in mind that they want us to like this ending and not be bitter about it, and so they're going to have to convince us that we want to fully let go of Mike and El and to root for Mike and Will.

This so called love triangle doesn't have equal stakes to the stancy/jancy one because we're dealing with an audience that has been completely left in the dark, now being bombarded. They have to try really hard to convince the audience to be on board with this, and also avoid homophobia in the process. They're going to have to make it very, very clear there are no more romantic feelings for Mike and El happening. Especially since we're ending the show with them in a sibling dynamic because of their relationships with Will. It would be gross to have this level of well maybe one day he could change his mind I mean he did that once before. Nope. It would be okay to have that sort of left unanswered with the stancy/jancy parallels bc we're not dealing with people being related to each other and swapping back and forth. That's why it needs to be clear in their situation.

And I do think that's why they did the whole I love you 9 times with Mike's monologue. Because it can't go up from there, there is nothing left for them to do after going all out like that, only to reveal Mike meant it deep down platonically? I mean what could they possibly do to backtrack? Have him give her another love confession where he says it 20x and adds no but fr this time?? No. They had to go all out like that to give those viewers what they wanted, the most they could possibly get and then say, sorry it's not happening. It essentially made it impossible to hope for it bc there's nothing left to hope for.

When it comes to byler and like these major moments that are bound to occur between them, I am genuinely most looking forward to them hugging again for the first time since the end of s3. That to me is going to be even more exciting than a kiss honestly (not saying I don't want a kiss but you know what I mean). And it's bc from a hug alone, I think we'll be able to tell that what's going on between them isn't platonic and that will in turn add so many layers to past seasons. I think it's also likely we'll get an almost kiss or two before the inevitable, and that would then make the slow-burn stretching until the end worth it, to me at least? Because just throwing them together never works when the formula has always been to hold off.

And that's also why the show has to end now. We can't have 6,8, 10 seasons of slow-burn, it would be exhausting. 5 seasons is the perfect amount. And having all of that angst and tension and heartache lead to a happy ending is going to make all of those moments in between that fans fought over for being critical of, sort of just dwindle to epic angst that was necessary to appreciate the happy ending.

[haven-of-dusk]

Love your fandom - teen wolf - 5, 8, 14, 15 and 16

5. Something you see in fics a lot and love:

Liam having a gay/bisexual crisis about Theo. I don't know why I enjoy it so much, but it never gets boring and it is always very funny to me to read Mason, exasperated, trying to deal with Liam's blood pressure rocketing through the roof about possibly crushing on Theo Raeken.

8. You Hope more people will come to appreciate ___ (a ship, trope, episode, etc.):

...Ethan/Isaac. It started out as me joking and turned into a semi-random pairing I greatly enjoy. I love Dethan as well, but the enemies to lovers with Ethan and Isaac plus their shared trait of leaving the show too soon and robbing Scott of his gay lieutenants? Criminally underrated imo.

14. The ship that always makes you smile:

It's probably a common answer, but it is, in fact, still Thiam. I have no idea what it is about them that works so well, why I love them so much, why the world has to be so unfair to rob us of getting more of them in the movie, etc. Pumpkin and Theodork just have a special place in my cold, dark heart.

15. The character that always makes you smile:

When I answered this one previously I brought up Ethan, so for the sake of variety. Let's talk about Isaac this time.

I so vividly recall early S2 wondering how the hell Isaac became such a fan favourite outside of Daniel Sharman being hot, and then the taking pain scene rolled around and I was 100% on board. Not to say he wasn't the best of Derek's pack already anyway, but late S2 cemented him as an icon and then he just kept being iconic throughout S3. And another omission from the movie that I'm violently bitter about. But yes, much as I did eventually come to love Liam, I will forever miss the days of Stiles as Scott's right hand and Isaac as Scott's left. Their trio dynamic in general was just underutilized and undervalued too.

16. A tiny detail in canon that you want more people to appreciate:

So fair warning that it's depressing, but we're back to Ethan (and also by extension Aiden). In 3A, episode 8 I believe, when Stiles and Scott pull Ethan aside to talk to him while Lydia distracts Aiden, it's established that the Steiners can, to an extent, feel each other's pain. Cora claws Aiden, and Ethan feels it, right down to the location of the wound.

So, with that in mind, Aiden's death becomes that much sadder when you realize that Ethan knew the exact moment Aiden died, because at that moment, presumably, Aiden stopped feeling pain, and by extension Ethan stopped feeling Aiden's pain and knew that Aiden was gone. That scene is already devastating but once I realized this extra layer...I can't rewatch it without crying.

Thank you for the ask @wolfboy88!

[starplusfourletters]

(way too many) thoughts on the ahsoka show

It was fine? I was really afraid there would be something I hated. And there was nothing I hated. Sad but true that that’s the bar for new SW material atm.

I really liked ep5; ep5 will probably get a rewatch. I liked the casting. The visuals were pretty cool. Huyang was a treasure.

So we’re really going with “the Force is in everyone so everyone can use the Force if you just try hard enough”? I… kind of hate that. That somehow feels ableist of me to say. But this is a heckin fantasy universe I feel like some people Really Are That Special, y’know?

Exception that proves the rule: A Force-less Sabine is still VERY SPECIAL. In Rebels, she can hold her own in a fight just as much as Kanan or Ezra. She’s extremely competent without the Force. She’s somehow less competent in this show

She really is just the worst here in ways that I do not remember her being in Rebels. I guess arguably Ezra was the one with Terminal Protagonist Syndrome in that show? And she caught it from him before he left?

I feel like what this season WANTED to be about – and honestly it’s the lowest hanging fruit possible for a show titled “Ahsoka” – is the tension between Ahsoka’s past / her relationship with her master and her future / her relationship with her apprentice. But I don’t think they actually hit a balance there, because they just did not make her relationship with her apprentice very compelling. Three reasons for this:

1. My bias. There are very few things that start with “Ahsoka &” that would get my attention more than “Ahsoka & Anakin.” Feel like I’m not alone on that one tho

2. Established canon. It’s already an uphill battle because Ahsoka and Sabine don’t have much of a relationship in Rebels. I’m honestly not sure they ever have a conversation. I remember Sabine being like “wow she’s cool much cooler than my idiot adopted brother”, and maybe that would be a place for a mentor figure relationship to start, if Sabine weren’t already DROWNING in mentor figures. It’s not that they have nothing in common, they are just straight up not a focal point of Rebels S2.

Hey you know who canonically has latent Force abilities? And maybe needs some training? And whom Ahsoka would have a Complicated feeling about without even needing a prior established relationship? Someone with mutually incompatible daddy issues? Someone deep enough in the cultural zeitgeist she literally would need no introduction?

Yes I KNOW it’s never gonna be canon and I should just go back to AO3 but it’s RIGHT THERE HRRRRRGGGGHHHHH

3. But a lot of the issues with Ahsoka & Sabine as a focal point are of the showmakers’ own creation. You’re telling me they have a relationship now? Fine, CONVINCE me of that:

First they shoot themselves in the foot by not giving us any information about how Sabine became Ahsoka’s apprentice originally. Why did Sabine want to become a Jedi when she didn’t want that in Rebels? DID she want to become a Jedi? What did she want to learn from Ahsoka? Why did Ahsoka decide to take an apprentice at that time and not any time before or after? How did she feel about it? And why pick Sabine, who is, and this is true, Not Very Good at the Force? Who approached whom, or did they run into each other accidentally? I suppose answering some of these questions might require answering “where was Ahsoka between 3 BBY and 4 ABY?” and they aren’t ready to do that yet, but guys. GUYS. If you’re trying to tell me how Ahsoka and Sabine fix their relationship, you gotta tell me why I care first.

I know I'm harping but I really cannot emphasize enough that "fuck it I'm gonna go round two on Found Family" is an arc-defining character beat for both Ahsoka AND Sabine and the fact that the audience doesn't get to see it really makes me question whether the powers that be themselves know what it looks like

Then we get vanishingly little information about why they broke up, and all of it is provided by Huyang. And what I’m picking up from what we have is “Sabine got too Revenge Quest-y, and Ahsoka got nervous.” I don’t even know where to begin here – maybe with the fact that if Sabine decided to go on a murder rampage, she wouldn’t need the Force, lol. We know Sabine’s family died, she wanted to go to Mandalore, and Ahsoka didn’t want her to. So… did Sabine go? How did she end up back on Lothal? Who left who? Was Ahsoka worried for Sabine’s safety, or that she was getting too Dark Side-y, or both? What juicy terrible intergenerational-trauma-driven things did they say to each other when they broke up? I want to compare and contrast this with Ahsoka leaving Anakin, but I do not have the information to do so because there are zero details and the info we DO have is from ANOTHER CHARACTER. Again, if this season is about this relationship, TELL ME WHY I CARE.

To me this is the same cardinal sin as Picard S1 – implying that some really interesting stuff happened when the audience wasn’t watching, and that it explains why the characters are behaving the way they are, and then… not disclosing that information. EXCEPT PICARD GAVE US MORE THAN THIS fjdghjfghjkhkd

I was not on Tumblr when I was watching Picard S1. Probably for the best.

But okay, they have a history, the show is gonna be about them, sure let’s move on. AND THEN THEY SPEND LIKE HALF THE EPISODES NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. The time they do spend in the same room is 75% generic sniping. As someone who came into this way more invested in the Ahsoka & Anakin relationship, ep5 was very much NOW BACK TO THE GOOD PART

And the couple of beats they do have together have me going HUH? After ep2 I spent most of a day debating myself on whether there’s a missing scene, between Sabine getting stabbed and waking up in the hospital, where we see Ahsoka actually REACT. On one hand, Ahsoka would be upset, maybe we as the audience can fill in the gaps and we don’t need to spend time on it. On the other hand, maybe we do, tho? At the time I was thinking about how we haven’t seen Ahsoka truly emotionally vulnerable since TCW with the exception of “Shroud of Darkness” and maybe “Twilight of the Apprentice.” She has a very normal range of emotions, and she expresses them in very controlled ways, and I just wanna see what she looks like when that breaks down, ya know? What’s weird to me is that in ep4 when Ahsoka thinks Sabine is dead we do get this beat; she gets Real Mad there for a second. So maybe what we’re learning is it was a double beat and they should have cut the stabbing thing entirely I mean come on they had to have known they were gonna catch flack for that. Then again, having that moment shows the audience that Ahsoka does give a shit, more than she wants to admit and more than she typically shows Sabine, which is a fun compare/contrast with Anakin, and it might have given me a better understanding of the relationship if it had come earlier.

The other big beat is Sabine deciding to help the baddies. That is just such a devastatingly terrible decision. So bad, in fact, that I feel like we’re supposed to be drawing parallels to Anakin. Their whole “screw over the galaxy to save one person” thing. Except 1) Sabine is not Anakin and 2) in order for that to be interesting, Ahsoka needs more information than I think she has. She knows Padme died around the same time Anakin totally lost his shit, and that’s about it. Which is actually a fun little thought experiment: what assumptions does Ahsoka make about the causality there? The only people who could have given her more intel are Palpatine, Obi-Wan, and Vader – unlikely. So IF the show is about the lines between Anakin and Ahsoka and Sabine, Sabine’s choice here could be central to that, and crucially to Ahsoka’s understanding of that, except it’s just for the audience I guess?

I do really like that Ahsoka’s extremely chill about what Sabine did, though. Ahsoka “Eh Shit Happens” Tano. Somehow her lesson from all this is “masters support their apprentices literally no matter what. Citation: Mine did.” That’s an unhinged take and I expect nothing less from my blorbo.

WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST GOTTEN A FLASHBACK TO THE SITUATION IN WHICH AHSOKA DIDN’T SUPPORT SABINE HRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

I realize that I’m really tearing into this thing pretty much just for not being something it isn’t. Like, it’s not BAD. But maybe its weaknesses stem from not committing to being about any one thing. It’s kind of about intergenerational trauma, it’s kind of a Rebels Part Two, it’s kind of a Filoniverse installment, it’s kind of a worldbuilding exercise. And that’s not necessarily too much material for an 8-hour show. It’s more like the powers that be DECIDED that was too much material.

TLDR, footage of me after pretty much everything star wars that’s come out since the Disney acquisition:

[marie76]

Season 2 Final | A through analysis on Aziraphale's behaviour in the last 20 minutes

Hi!!! Hope you're doing great. So I finished good omens a few days ago. Wanted to talk about it somewhere so I logged back into tumbler. Please forgive my broken English.

I kept thinking about the last minutes of the s2 final. My very first reaction was wtf? I usually don't look into details on my first watch and naturally I miss some important things. That's why in my second and third and forth rewatch of some certain scences Aziraphale's expressions and words kept surprising me.

Let's have a chinwag

At first, when Metatron asks him to talk, he says "there is nothing left to be said, I've made my position quite clear" It's clear he doesn't want to deal with the highee ups But the Metatron kept insisting and offers him a coffee. Aziraphale asks if he should drink it, And the Metatron says yes. Something clicked here for me. He got the coffee from the coffee shop across the street. What's the name? Give me coffee or give me DEATH. Now I don't think Aziraphale really takes it as threat. Not at that moment. But In my opinion It's the Metatron's way of saying that you don't have a choice if you want to stay intact. Remeber what he said to Nina? He asked if people really ask for death? So thoes who go to the shop don't have a choice but to buy a drink. They dont want death obviously.

Back to the shop

Before going back we see him have a brief chat with the Metatron. He is clearly nervous. He is definitly scared. He keeps looking away and doesn't make long eye contacts with him and have fake short smiles. Then he comes to the shop and I think he becomes a bit calmer. Which is kinda cute if you think It's because Crowley is there.

He manages to keep his shit together just before him and Crowley start talking. At first I thought that he was really happy. But he was not. We know how he really looks like when he's truely happy. When he wanted to be a magician or when he was dancing in the gentelmen club or when he was talking about taking the Bently. There were real joy inside his eyes, a bit cocky even. He didn't keep his eyes off Crowley. Actually, he didn't have any problem eating him out with his eyes in public. While talking about the Metatron's offer, he smiles but thoes are not smiles of joy. He keeps eye contact but there are times that he still looks away.

From now on some speculations are mixed with the analysis. You can call them delulu as well cause I'm delusional.

The Offer and The Good News

Well I think that Aziraphale takes the possibility of the Metatron listening to their converisation into consideration. That would explain why he was harsh on Crowely that much. He can't seriously think that Crowley would go to heaven without absolute urgency, hell, HE HIMSELF didn't want to go back to heaven.

As soon as Crowely's name comes out of the Metatron's mouth he tensed a bit.

The Metatron say you can make your friend an angle again. We know Aziraphale doesn't want to change Crowley. He loves him the way he is. He never tried to change him (atleast not that I remember) they talked and drinked together without trying to change eachother FOR 6000 YEARS.

(That can be the case but I also think It's possible that Aziraphale thought if they are both angles then no one would bother them like they did in the past-This part was said by a friend so Credit to my lovely Dora)

but he can't explain things to Crowely then and there because the Metatron might be listening.

Confession | The Beginning of the End

Crowley starts confessing. That's when Aziraphale starts losing his cool again. He looks the other way which I assume is the window but I may be wrong. He also look away from Crowley a few times.

When Crowley says "Just the two of us" (45:05) for a really really short time his right lower eyelid goes up a little. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but I think he's like "are we really doing this NOW?" Which is kinda funny lol. As Crowely was saying "heaven and hell are toxic" he shakes his head nervouslly multiple times. As if he wants him to stop saying thoes. Why? The fucking Metatron

"Come with me"

Well this part is really interesting because I see it in everyday life pretty often specially during the argument. When, you ask? Well, in the middle of an argument, when things get heated, some people tend to get closer to the other person,Talking closely to another with a lowered voice with words coming out calmly is usually used to convince the other, as if to believe that if articulate calmly, the other will undrestand your point better. I think that's what Aziraphale was doing there.

When Crowley wants to leave he begs him to go with him because Aziraphale needs him, because he's scared.

" I don't think you undrestand what I'm offering you" means "You dont undrestand what I'm trying to say in codes to you" "I undrestand it a whole lot better than you" "Then there is nothing left to say" That's where Aziraphale gave up.

There is anger, desperation and sadness on his face but there is nothing else he can do.

The Kiss

"You idiot, we, could've been us" as soon as Crowely said that Aziraphale looks away and when Crowely pulls him to a desperate kiss we can see he was about cry.

This part is my favorite. He is obv shocked, but after a few seconds he closes his eyes, his hands move up to hold Crowely for a very short while but then he removes them. After the kiss is broken he still looks like he want to cry.

"I forgive you"

I legit thought he was going to say I love you, his lips movement and the sound that came out sounded like "I l..." I think a "get out" would've hurt less💀✨. It can mean I forgive you for leaving me or I forgive you for confessing now, I forgive you for npt choosing heaven (remember, the Metatron is listening) or It's his way of saying I love you because we know forgivness is Aziraphale's favorite thing (delulu)

The Aftermath

After Crowley left the shop his eyes are full of tears, he touches his lips like a little virgin receiving his first kiss but It's a painful one.

The Metatron comes back to the shop. During their short convo Aziraphale looks away multiple times, again, and where does he look at? The window, probably to see if Crowley is still out there. The Metatron asked if he's ready to go and ✨Aziraphale still tries to stay✨"But.... My bookshop" "I entrusted it to Muriel" "but..." "Anything you need to take with you?"

Oh the Metatron is not letting him stay.

That's for sure.

"We call it the Second Coming"

Lmao there is a big "fuck" written all over Aziraphale's face. He shortly looks at Crowely before going to the elevator.

So now he has a heaven to fix and a Second Coming to stop.

The Smile

Well I have to say that smile is creepy one💀 his lips moves up and down many times as if he can't control his feelings. If you look at his shoulders you can see he is breathing rapidly. I see sadness, anger, confusion, pain and "what the fuck am i supposed to do" on his face but at the end I also see determination. The determination of a man who is so done lol.

Why Aziraphale wants to make things right? Because he knows if this system stays, the earth, Crowely and himself will always be in danger ans It's only a matter of times either heaven or hell mess things up on earth. They can run away all they want but heaven and hell won't leave them alone forever. Crowley would probably say it doesn't matter, we will run again which is a cute plan but not permenantly functional.

I didn't check the theories myself but my friend shared some of them with me. I hate the coffee theory andI don't think Aziraphale is thirsty for heaven's love like an abused child. Like I said he seemed pretty determinded about staying, he didn't want to go, even when he got to elevator he didn't want to, his heart was somewhere else but he needed to stand up and do something before thoes angles mess things up.

Well, that was my analysis + delulu's. Hope you all enjoyed it. Please share your theories and thoughts cause I love reading theories.

[lou-iz-stat]

So……. 2 MORE WEEKS!… and it still does not feel real to me that we are going to get season 2 so soon. I am sure it will destroy me and create an everlasting wound deep in my soul.

Anyway episode 6! I won’t lie this the episode that I have watched the most out of the rest. I have probably watched it over 15 times and that is not an exaggeration. It’s my fav episode because there are just so many iconic moments in this one.

Let’s not waste another moment. Get into this!

IWTV S1 E6: Like Angels Put in Hell by God

This ep starts with Louis looking real bad as he tries to recover from the drop inflicted on him by Lestat.

He definitely has PTSD from the fall 😔

At least we get the ‘cloud gift’ name drop.

We also have Dr. Fareed which is a character that is most prominent in the Prince Lestat trilogy I believe. I do not know if this is true I have not read that far yet.

We then go back to the story and Claudia is making Louis chase a goat for his recovery.

And here comes Lestat being where he is not wanted. The throwing of his coffin out the balcony is everything 🤣

When Lestat comes to give the car to Louis I must admit he looks so so good 😩 But I still don’t want Louis to let him back in! Because I know he has not changed even though he says so.

But I do believe that if Louis did tell him to leave and to never see him again Lestat would listen! But he doesn’t tell him that because he still can’t let Lestat go even after everything he has done. It’s too much!

Lestat is crazy for what he does with ‘Come to Me’ but I love when Sam sings it ❤️

And this what. I am talking about when I say that so much of this episode is so iconic! Swimming a dirty ass river to break into your exe’s place and telling Antoinette to leave HER HOUSE so that you can have violent hate sex while she is just outside listening to it all. It’s just so messy and insane! Gotta love it

Sam Reid is just so so good in the scene where they are questioning Lestat! His acting is just *chef’s kiss*

And everything he tells them of how he became a vampire is true 😭

“…I loved Lestat with a wounded one.” 😭😭😭

Yes Claudia you should baaaaaa at him!

Nooooo Claudia what he said about Magnus was true!

More Nicky name dropping this episode. And knowing the backstory with that I just wince at the whole conversation they are having. But what can I say she really is her father’s daughter

And of course he didn’t kill Antoinette being a brat so much so that he did not like being told what to do. And yes Louis he is ‘all kinds of fucked up’ and this why I love this show. Everybody is fucked up just some more than others.

Ugh the scene where Claudia tries to get Louis to leave with her breaks my heart.

Then we go back to modern day and this is where in the original interview Daniel wanted to be turned. And ohhhhh Armand is not happy that Louis offers to turn Daniel now hehe

The utter shock I had when Claudia is just sitting in the townhouse instead of on a train. 😱

But oh, oh! The train scene is everything. It is just so fucked up and scary! This show is in the horror genre after all. And that doesn’t stop this scene from being iconic.

From “Tickets, please!” To “Claudia, you left without saying goodbye…. Again” it just lives rent free in my head.

God he such an asshole to her!

And she defeats him at chess at the same time that she is plotting his murder! That’s some queen shit honestly.

When Lestat is shouting in French, if you ever look up what he is saying it is actually so unsettling

Awwww our boy (Daniel) is eeppy

I don’t care what anyone says I love the 70s flashback.

And boom! As we all know Rashid is actually someone Daniel has met before! Shocker! Yeah yeah it’s Armand we know this.

Yay! I got through another one! We only have one more rewatch then s2! I cannot believe it and again it does not feel real at all! I am sure by next week I’ll be able to write more since I won’t have as much school work left to do.

Thanks for reading

14 days!!!!! Life is worth living!

[my-mt-heart]

Please humour me, and thanks in advance for putting up with my rant.

I recently started a rewatch of twd to help pass the time while I wait for twd:dd in September, and this question keeps coming back to me.

How long has Daryl been in love with Carol, while she has no idea? What do you think?

I think from season 1, but he didn't really know it himself till the start of season five, where they reunited in the forest, and since then has either been too scared to do anything about it, too occupied by everything that has happened to the group in the years since to allow himself to feel/pursue it, or he's genuinely felt that he doesn't deserve her/she deserves better, OR all/combination of the above.

Carol, on the other hand, I think only realised the extent of her own feelings at the end of season 11. The looks they shared while Magna's group was crying over Luke (almost like they were so grateful that the other was still alive, and it could have so easily been one of them crying over the other's death), and then the looks again later when they were waiting for Judith to wake up after surgery, really tells me that in those moments they both realised something significant about how they feel for each other, and how a future isn't promised and that they could lose each other for good at any moment.

And don't get me started on their farewell scene because it broke my heart; once again, these two did the selfless thing and put others' safety and happiness over their own. They each decided to go on a journey to help/save someone else. The way Daryl looked back at her for one last time after getting on the bike was almost like he was hoping she'd tell him to stay.

In Judith's words, "You [Daryl] deserve a happy ending too"!!! and he'll only really come to believe this once it's too late and he's stuck across an ocean, trying to get back to them.

And my queen, Carol, will cross an ocean to find him; I'm gonna cry just thinking about it. I love them so much.

Let me know what you think. Am I being delusional? I want to know how someone else sees this.

I’m overdue for a rewatch myself, I just haven’t felt motivated lately. I think there are a lot of clues pointing to Daryl and Carol developing feelings for each other early on like you said, but they *both* needed time to sort it out for themselves. Grief kept piling on over the years, insecurities deepened, and while their love only grew, they both went through periods of believing they weren’t good enough for each other. I think Daryl overcame it in the last couple seasons, hence “I know where I’m supposed to be.” Hence, why Daryl’s alleged uncertainty in the spinoff makes zero sense.

To be completely honest, I hated their last scene(s) together. I hated that one of the most anticipated moments—exchanging I loves you’s—was used to distract the audience from what was really happening i.e. Daryl leaving Carol. I don’t think it was a selfish or a selfless choice on his part because I don’t think there was any emotional realism to it at all. He had a spinoff to get to 🤷🏻‍♀️😑 I do think Carol was trying to make it easier for Daryl to go, but that just exposes a much sadder truth which is—after 11 seasons and even a time jump of one year—Carol *still* hasn’t healed from her insecurities/trauma. She *still* thinks Daryl could be happier without her. In an EW interview, Melissa chose the song “Crazy” by Patsy Cline to represent the end of Carol’s story. That speaks volumes. There were a handful of characters TWD owed honorable endings and they butchered all of them, but Carol’s was the worst.

The point I’m getting to is no, you aren’t delusional. It’s just that the spinoff has *a lot* to make up for. Do I think it can? Based on what we know about S2, yes. Am I ready to give up my cynicism? No. Not yet, but I hope to soon 😵‍💫

[amtrak12]

Hey hi! I read your Helena Wells meta earlier, from ten years ago, and I found it so interesting and spot on, and at the end you were so sad that you felt like you didn't have a good grasp on the character - do you feel that has changed, since then? And if so, how? Or, what do you think of Helena these days?

(the meta you posted and linked here: https://www.tumblr.com/purlturtle/736985181321314304/your-helena-tangent-got-me-thinking-and-yes-this )

Oooo fun and deep questions! :D Thank you!!

Obviously, that was 2.5 high schools ago so I had to reread my original meta to refresh my memory. My first thought is: OMFG LEARN PARAGRAPH BREAKS!! O_O But then, as I kept reading and saw how many spaces were missing after periods and how the sentences after the missing space read like a new paragraph -- my second thought is, I think Tumblr did me dirty at some point in the last 10 years of formatting changes and I actually did use appropriate paragraph breaks originally. Rude. -_-

But on the point of your actual questions! lol

I don't remember writing that exact post, but being nervous and uncertain about my Helena characterization does ring a bell. I was DEFINITELY more confident in analyzing/meta-ing Myka or Pete (if it was in relation to Myka). HG made me nervous and that was only like 10% because she's British and I'm American.

Some of my uncertainty probably came from my lack of historical knowledge (which has not improved. Fun fact: this is why I nearly never invented an artifact for fic). A not-insignificant portion of my uncertainty probably also came from how confident the rest of the fandom spoke about Helena. It seemed like she was meta-ed more often and by more people than Myka was. (Which makes sense as -- in general -- Helena was/probably still is the more popular character in the B&W ship.) I don't remember ever feeling like someone was way off base or out of character with Helena, but I do remember reading meta/fic sometimes and struggling to decide if I disagreed with a character trait/action that the person assigned her or if it was an accurate aspect of Helena's character that I hadn't internalized yet.

Basically I had Opinions about how Myka (and Pete for that matter) should be written and definitely noticed when a fic disagreed with me. But figuring out HG was like the wild west to me and I could never pin her down with firm barriers on who her character is and isn't.

I am very, very rusty on my Warehouse 13 knowledge because it's been nearly a decade since I was deep in my analyzation of the show. So, I wouldn't say I have a better grasp on Helena's characterization today than I did in 2014. But there are some aspects I feel like I could understand better if I took the time to rewatch and meta.

Loss of a child -- look I don't have children, but I do have niblings now that I adore. I'm also raising a dog who taught me I do not have the energy or anxiety coping mechanisms to raise a human child, because worrying about her almost does me in on its own. And I'm in my mid-30's now and seem to have a better understanding of parent-child relationships (or I'm at least way more interested in exploring them now, both from the view of the child and the view of the parent). So, exploring Christina's death and just how much that affected Helena would absolutely be on my list of deep-dives. I never ignored this before, but I'm certain I could pull more out of this backstory today than I could've in 2014.

Helena's guilt -- I started rambling at the end of that post about which things Helena felt guilty about and whether she felt guilty at all. As far as I remember, I usually wrote her as feeling some measure of guilt for her past actions. (Although I was also usually writing full AU settings so it was a moot point.) But I also wasn't wrong when I pointed out how she didn't show any obvious signs of regret over her S2 actions, unless it was something that had hurt Myka. If I was going to go back and meta WH13, I would explore this topic deeper for sure.

Interestingly, it's not something I could've explored deeper prior to 2022-ish. But now I've watched the series Lucifer which deals entirely with guilt and has a protagonist with shut down emotions who doesn't regret things and then, through incremental changes over 6 seasons, opens up, learns to feel every emotion again, unpacks a lot of shit etc. And I have been FASCINATED by how the writers pulled that off, because on the surface it is not a show (or a protagonist) that I should care about. (And if I had watched it from ep 1.01 instead of completely ass backwards, I wouldn't have cared about him.) BUT I DO CARE! And I want to know how they pulled off Lucifer's character arc. And then I want to use some of the techniques they used to explore guilt and pain and apply them to Helena to see what emerges in her character. Because I think it would be really interesting.

And then finally, I'm not sure I have anything new to bring to the conversation around what Helena's future with the warehouse and/or happy ending looks like. But I could also never make up my mind on what would work best for her. Does she return as an agent? Does she become a regent? (Probably not, but you never know.) Does she just become the live-in inventor who doesn't venture into the field unless absolutely necessary? I have absolutely no idea what her future with the warehouse would look like if a romantic relationship with Myka is her happy ending. (Which is my personal goal obviously lol).

Because -- and this is where my Opinions on Myka come into play -- our girl Myka Bering is not leaving that warehouse. Ever. She is the new Artie. She will take over as the lead agent when he retires/partially retires. And then she will die there. In South Dakota of old age (because I refuse to let her die on a mission). Pete? Oh, my boy Pete will meet an awesome lady and retire to be a stay at home dad. He'll walk away one day. Myka? Absolutely never. You're burying her at the warehouse. Which means Helena will have to have some kind of relationship with it again, and I would have to figure out what that looks like because both today and in 2014, I can't decide what option fits her best.

I hope this answers your question! It was so deep and I love it :D I just don't have new thoughts on WH13 yet because I haven't looped back around to a full blown obsession with it yet. (It will happen. Round 2 of BERING AND WELLS ARE THE BEST THING EVER will absolutely happen at some point in my life because that's how I roll and they are.) So this is less meta about how my thoughts on Helena have changed, and more about how my approach to her character would change given the experience I've gained in the last ten years.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS ASK!

[starrynightoveratrhone]

Good Omens S2: The Metatron's Plan to Separate Aziraphale and Crowley

Alright. I just finished rewatching S2 of Good Omens. When I first watched it I was a ball of mess and couldn't really formulate any thoughts. Now, though, I have a bit of a clearer head and here are my thoughts...

So let's start at that bit where the Metatron asked if he could speak to Aziraphale (yes, we are skipping the coffee as I believe there was nothing on it to make Aziraphale act in any weird way or control him whatsoever). Go back and pay attention to time stamp 36:15. That look that the Metatron gave to Crowley after Aziraphale turned his back was an i-have-an-evil-plan look. Now, I think this evil plan was as simple as "I will tell Aziraphale that he should replace Gabriel as the Supreme Archangel AND tell him that he can bring Crowley with him." Doesn't sound so evil, no? But it is. You see, the Metatron knows that Aziraphale, with his religious trauma, will be easy to manipulate into thinking that being the supreme archangel is an opportunity for him to be able to make a difference. The cherry on top here is that he can turn Crowley back into an angel and bring him back to Heaven where they can work together. The Metatron knows that Crowley knows better and wouldn't fall for this. He knew that they would have a big fight, which is exactly what he needs in order to separate them.

Separate them? Why? Well, because of that 25 Lazarii miracle they did together. The way I understood it, that measurement means that with that teeny tiny half-of-a-miracle was enough to resurrect 25 dead people (pls correct me if I'm wrong). If this is the case, then imagine what they could do together if they actually used up all of their powers to its fullest. We know that Heaven is preparing for the 2nd coming and they certainly wouldn't want Aziraphale and Crowley to thwart their plans like last time. Separating them is perfect, even more, one of them will be in Heaven under the watchful eyes of the Metatron.

Still not convinced? Well, go back to time stamp 47:44. See how fast the Metatron came back right after Crowley left. When told that Crowley did not take it well, he brushed it off like he knew that was going to happen. He immediately proceeded to tell Aziraphale that they should get going. Aziraphale backed away because everything was happening all at once and it was so overwhelming, he obviously needed some time to think and gather his thoughts. But the Metatron made sure not to give Aziraphale any time to think, he needed to get him out of there as soon as possible while his thoughts and emotions were still muddled.

I believe that Aziraphale and Crowley together would be powerful enough to stop the 2nd coming. I don't exactly know how, we'll have to wait for S3 (and please please please keep on rewatching, let's convince Amazon that S3 is a MUST!).

EDIT: I just saw on Facebook that the Metatron wearing a black coat instead of white (or something light colored since he's an angel) is kinda sus. I think this goes well with this whole theory I made up. Like, he really is up to no good and that's foreshadowed with the way he dressed.

I will be posting my theory on why Aziraphale did not go back to Crowley after the Metatron told him they were preparing for the 2nd coming. I think this post is long enough, so I'll just post that separately.