#will doesn't like el romantically

[mcuxhp777]

No, bc the relationship between Will and El in season 4 was anything, but romantic

They went from this

To fucking siblings in six MONTHS

People, who ship them, romantically, get help

[chirpsythismorning]

Some of the evidence supporting Mike not being in love with El is brutal. No, but seriously.

In s3, when El's leg is injured, instead of Mike putting his arm around her waist, allowing him to take some of the weight off her injured leg, he puts his arm around her shoulder, basically having the exact opposite affect of taking the weight off of her, instead just adding more weight for her to have to carry.

Now, I’m not coming at Mike here, I’m actually coming at the writers, because this choice here has everything to do with them using this gesture to signal Mike’s lack of feelings for El, even at the expense of realism.

I say this bc any person with common sense, including Finn and everyone around him and Millie filming these shots, would've known it looked unnatural for Mike to be adding more weight onto El as opposed to taking some off of her.

This means that what Mike did here, Finn was directed to do, and therefore it was for a specific reason.

And we know they could have easily made the opposite choice, because they show us Max AND Lucas doing it.

See how putting an arm around El's waist looks so much more natural? Because homegirl is injured and clearly needs help taking weight off her leg to qualm some of the pain she's experiencing there, which is why Max and Lucas are shown here doing it the correct way.

And so, why can't Mike do the same? Why are the writers making a point to show Mike being incapable of simply taking some weight off of El, instead doing the exact opposite?

I don't think it's as deep as Mike not being able to do something intimate, and that's bc, again we see Max and Lucas doing it.

I honestly think what they're trying to convey with this choice here, is that Mike thinks he's helping El, when he is in fact doing the opposite despite his best efforts. The implications of that and how that sort of aligns with their romantic relationship and what it leads to at the end of s3, going into s4, is pretty spot on.

I do think Mike thinks he's doing the right thing by being with El instead of voicing any doubts at the end of s3, because he is under the assumption that she is in love with him. I do think he believes he is indebted to her and that this is the least he can do after everything they've been through together, which has mostly been riddled with romantic pressures and so continuing that instead of disputing it seems like the only option anyways. Not to mention, he does care for her deeply, so it's not hard to imagine that he's a teenage boy confusing deep care for love (he literally tells us this is his problem when he can only say care and not love to El's face... but that's a whole other conversation).

Still, when it's all said and done, Mike's not actually doing El any favors by being with her romantically, if that is not what he truly wants.

Because that's the sad truth about all of this, which is that you would never want someone to be with you just because you want them. If you knew that they truly couldn't have those feelings for you, you'd want to know, right? You don't deserve someone just because you have deep feelings for them. And I think there's so many layers to this idea, bc many people are capable of not giving Byler a chance bc they truly believe Mike could never return Will's feelings. Will also feels this way atp, so though it hurts, he rips the band aid off, because he would never want Mike to be with him just out of pity or something. No one would want that. And so it all really comes down to who Mike truly loves romantically and wants to be with. And the right thing to do, even if it hurts someone, is to be honest, because being with them just bc you think that will make them happy is never going to be enough if you aren't truly feeling it, or worse, feel it for someone else.

We see how Mike's inability to be honest with El at the end of s3, leads to a season of Mike feeling deeply insecure and undeserving of the love El has to offer him, and even though he does try, he always comes up short. Despite Mike putting up this front that they are the perfect couple, the details are telling us something is off. And it gives him away.

Another example that I think is very similar to this loaded gesture from Mike to El in s3, is the scene in s4 when they hug in the airport.

Common sense ppl, picture this: You're reuniting with your long distance girlfriend. Then suddenly, she runs up to you, with her arms wide open, and instead of opening your arms wide to embrace her properly, you take the bouquet of flowers you brought her as a gift, and shove them against your chest just as she approaches to hug you, effectively squishing the present you got for her (a pretty delicate present at that) for no reason other than to... what exactly?

Like?? El isn't even squishing the present Mike, she's trying to hug you, dude! Your gf is trying to hug you properly and you threw the gift you got for her in between you so you could throw in a careful! x3??

Again, this has less to do with Mike's thoughts and reasoning behind this gesture in a literal sense, and more to do with the simple fact that this is a narrative choice! Mike is not a real person! There are real people sitting down and writing this and actors are having to do multiple takes to act it out. What feels natural for a situation is going to be what is often chosen 9 times out of 10, because of realism and wanting the audience to see stuff happening that is believable. That 1 time though, when it's not being done the way it would usually be, is usually because there's a specific reason for it.!

So the question really is, not why is Mike doing this, but why are the writers having Mike do this, and what message are they trying to convey about Mike's feelings based on his behavior, in these moments where he's just not capable of committing to El genuinely, one way or another?

[gayofthefae]

"X is the biggest Byler proof" - me all the time about everything

But it's this. It's this. Because this is what converted me. This is what made me go "there is heterosexual explanation for this" without even realizing it until I had a homosexual one. It's this shit.

[july-19th-club]

i think the funniest neal relationship is when he's dating sara because 90% of it is 'we both like to be dressed to the nines at all hours of the day and night, we should fuck about it' and the instant they have any disagreement whatsoever they're like oh right our expensive and impractical taste in clothing is the only thing we have in common

[heartsgettingwiser62]

The show expresses El's and Will's main arc and desires through their art in s4.

On the one hand, we have Will, who creates a painting for Mike that portrays them and the party together again, as their dnd characters. Of course, it displays Will's desire of belonging again in that friend group, of having what was taken away from him last summer. But, after all, the main focus of the painting is Mike. Because 1, the painting is for Mike after all, and 2, Will himself is telling where his priorities are, by painting a heart on top of him. Mike's the heart, his heart.

On the other hand, with her art (the figures she makes), El portrays Hopper and his cabin, the first place she actually considered a home. This creation is, in a way, for Hopper. Since she obviously can't give it to him directly, it's a tribute to his sacrifice, therefore, it's made for him. That's where her priorities lie: family.

Will's arc, his biggest hopes and desires, are primarily about love, just how he expresses in his art. El's arc, her biggest hopes and desires, are primarily about family, just how she expresses in her art.

So, narratively, who would make more sense to end up in a relationship? The one whose focus is love and belonging (being who he loves one of the reasons he feels as if he doesn't belong) or the one whose focus is family and finding herself?

[apatheticlexicographer]

People like to talk about how Mike might have never actually liked El at all because his prepubescent puppy crush was actually just comphet, but what I haven’t seen discussed so much is the very real possibility that El never liked him (romantically) either.

When El and Max were clothes shopping in S3, El asked how she was supposed to know what she liked. She didn’t know how to discern her own taste, and this was after about 8 months worth of time where she was, if not integrating into society, at least hanging out with the party. By this point in the show, what things do we actually know that el has decided she likes? When she was with Hopper she listened to whatever records he had and watched whatever was on TV, because her world was so small that she didn’t have the luxury of choice. The only things she seems to have stated a preference for are Mike and Eggos. Mike, one of the first people she ever met outside of the lab, and Eggos, the first food he ever brought her. Now what are the odds that these are actually her favourite things, and that she’s not just imprinting?

We see a lot of this lack of knowledge of what she wants in how she dresses. As a small child, she only wears the hospital gowns that the lab provides her with. Once she breaks out she wears Mike’s clothes and Nancy’s old dress. When she lives with Hopper she wears his old clothes and whatever he brings her. Even when she has her punk makeover she’s just wearing what Kali dressed her up in. She chooses her own clothes while she’s out with Max, and almost immediately after that she breaks up with Mike. Even then, she feels the need to ask Max, as if she expects to be told what she’s supposed to like. In S4 it’s unclear how much of her wardrobe she’s chosen herself, but I’m assuming that the oversized shirts are probably Hopper’s, in which case she’s wearing them because she misses him and not because she actually likes them.

When El and Mike first met they were still small kids, and they knew each other for a grand total of a week. Regardless of what you think his reason for it was, Mike basically decided that their relationship was going to have a romantic context. El didn’t know what that meant! She spent her entire childhood in a laboratory and ended up repressing most of it by the time she escaped. We see in S2 that she likes to watch romance shows on TV, but those aren’t a realistic portrayal of relationships, and they’re likely her only interaction with the concept of romance. Despite apparently having been in a relationship for months, she seems pretty clueless about dating when talking to Max in S3. I’ll bet good money that she saw romcom meet-cutes and, overlaying them over her own experience with Mike, assumed that “love-at-first-sight” relationships were the norm for the general populace.

So here’s El, who’s never been able to consider what it is that she actually wants before, and one of the only people she’s ever met tells her he likes her romantically. Of course she’ll go along with it! Particularly when she sees relationships just like that on TV, because soap operas are her only real window into society for a whole year! She goes along with it because Mike says he likes her, so she assumes that means she must like him too, yet the moment Max prompts her to think about what it is she really wants, she breaks up with him. And then when she returns to the status quo of their relationship, long distance this time, she’s blatantly lying about so much! She’s not thinking about what she wants at all, she’s only considering what it is she thinks Mike wants.

I do think El likes Mike a lot, as a friend, but she’s never even considered their relationship through a platonic lens because she’s been told from the very start that it’s romantic.

[imagineacoolusername]

what if even before they confess and get together will gets vecna'd and mike trying to get him out of it gives a little monologue and tells will he loves him,, just to contrast how easily he can say it to will --who atp is still his friend only-- and how much more important he is to mike

[givemewallywestorgivemedeath]

I love how Young Justice fanart has to be tagged with ship names because otherwise you would have zero clue if it's supposed to be ship art. The core four are just Like That™. Cuddling? Holding hands? Sharing clothes? That's just the YJ aesthetic bro.

If I see fan art of [insert YJ member here] and [insert YJ member here] sharing a smoothie I'm like 'Hell yeah man 👍 that's some good ole fashioned friend bonding time. You go you funky lil non heteronormative teenagers, you go break the societal expectations of normative friendship boundaries'.

And then if I see that same art but tagged with a ship name I'm like 'Hehe, yeah probably 👍'

Either way I'm happy and having fun and enjoying some good art so win/win situation

[bylertruther-moved]

will says that el has a book of letters from him because he’s just pointing out that they kept in contact regularly whereas he and mike didn’t but somehow mike interprets that as if will was implying there should be something romantic between them too and it stumps will bc that’s not what he meant at all and he doesn’t realize yet why mike is actually so mad or who he’s mad at, and while we clown mike for being oblivious i think will is oblivious too bc this isn’t the first time mike’s done that and yet. will doesn’t question it. he never does and they never talk about it. he just continues with what he’s saying about how they used to be best friends. they never talk about the fact that when will fights to salvage their friendship mike talks about it as if it was more than what it was and as if continuing as they were would get between his relationship with eleven. which implies that he himself feels that their relationship is inappropriate if he wants to date eleven concurrently and explains why it’s the only friendship within the party that seriously falls apart and why will is the only party member that he completely changes his behavior n actions towards and why he’s the only party member that he no longer touches once he dates eleven. which again also explains why after they start dating it’s only when eleven isn’t around that he allows a softer, more open and present mike to reappear around will. it’s just like. why would he do any of that if he’s not projecting? will is literally the one with a canonically confirmed interest in him and yet he’s mad at the roller rink because will is ignoring him [or so he thought at that point]. he’s not mad that eleven lied. he’s not mad at what those bullies did to her. he’s mad that will didn’t talk to him. he’s so mad and hurt by will that he doesn’t even console his girlfriend who was encircled, taunted, and had a milkshake thrown on her all on tape. he stays by will’s side despite everything, even when she’s fidgeting and crying to the side of them. to top it off he even makes a passive aggressive bitchy little comment at dinner afterward because he’s still. mad. at. will. will is the one that ruined his day. not those bullies being cruel to el, but will. it clouds his vision so much that he can’t even pretend or begin to attempt to entertain the idea of being there for her when she so clearly needs him. how does anyone fucking watch any of that and not get what’s going on. HOW????

[silusvesuius]

I’d read a whole ass book about you talking about Ulfric in both your canon and fanon version. He had a lot of potential as a character in the game but the end result felt like the writers put two hours of thoughts into his character but it was 90% plot related and everything related to his personality was squeezed into the rest of the 10%. I could literally live in his walls while playing and I still don’t get a good enough look into his mind. I had to feed off crumbs given to me through the civil war questline and his conversations with Galmar (also for some reason I was able to sleep in his bed after I was done with that questline which was odd but oh well) you can barely have a conversation with him about HIM. And one could go through a play through and completely miss a lot of details about his life with no problem at all. Like come on he could’ve at least had a journal in his bed table or something, how come a random fucking miner deep within an old cave gets one and he doesn’t. I coped with how “put together” he seems from the outside with assuming that he’s the type to bottle it all up and only allows that side of him to show when he’s alone with Galmar (again we could’ve had more dialogue with just the two of them) with him turning into a completely different man behind closed doors and resembling nothing to the cold hardy leader he appears to be sitting in his throne. But even with all of that we still got way too little content of him considered what we’re told he’s gone through.

But yeah anyways, I enjoy it every time you talk about your interpretation of him, I could spend hours just reading about it I ain’t even exaggerating *autism*. And I’d love to also hear more about your fanon depiction of him. These two versions might seem separate yet they feel so intertwined as if one is in a higher spiritual level. I dunno which one’s which.

So yeah keep being the amazing artist that you are.

THANK YOU LOOOL 💗 Yes literally my princess is so isolated in his own mind that he doesn't even write his thoughts down everywhere (he's afraid the th*lmor agents that are hiding in his closet will read his diary and relay everything to el*nwen) he has no good coping mechanisms. we will never know how he's feeling because the only times he talks about it is when he's bathing with galmar or something (it's too ecchi we can't be seeing or hearing none of that) or when he's really exhausted after an insanely long day, collapsing into his arms and starting to cry saying he's s//icidal, and before galmar can even say anything ulfric is like (Slicks hair back again and rubs off the snot and tears) "actually nvm i'm good"

they gave us the two crumbs of him seeming a bit like a paranoiac in 2 lines and then that one fruity af conversation between him and galmar and thought it's enough to keep us fed. and it is. And it is. (my bones sticking out) i will flip them turn them and make a pancake

if i was president ulfric would be would always be looking @ U sideways && like he's about to deck you in the mouth; unlikable, unapproachable, nasty, horrid, paranoid;... the list goes on

+ i love the tidbit of t*rygg actually admiring ulfric it's so funny to me. Don't try to befriend a traumatized war veteran guys now t*rygg is up there singing in talos' choir. he killed him for all of the reasons listed in canon but also because he hates seeing people be happy especially elves (el*sif). Shut up brainless, th*lmor-tainted... woman, DISHWASHER, get ready to be triggered by loud sounds for the rest of your life like me when i hear the clacking of heels

[chirpsythismorning]

This is a continuation in exploring why I think Mike's character regression over the seasons can be explained in part by guilt, which he has yet to confront

Original post

Now we're onto s2, which jumps us ahead in the timeline a bit.

Mike has been calling out to El on the walkie for approx. 252 days now, under what he views as the false hope she might actually be alive. This is mostly based on the fact that Mike thought he saw El outside of his house a few hours after she 'died' (he did see her, bc she was there...) and so a part of him does think there's a chance. And yet this is also isn't something Mike seems to be comfortable talking about the others with.

Which brings us to the crazy together scene. Although this scene has a lot going on, there's one aspect of it in particular that I want to focus on, as it's the driving force for what is going to be discussed, which is that Halloween night was also the last night Mike called El, aka day 353.

I just want to preface what follows, with the fact that I do not personally think Mike giving up calling El, as a concept on its own, means that he couldn't possibly love El romantically or something. It's not even about that idea from an audience perspective. And this is because any average person, in reality, mourning someones' death, should not be calling out to that person for almost a year. Letting go doesn't make you a bad person, whether it was romantic, platonic or even familial. It's called healing and accepting what is and trying to move on and live your life.

Neither does Mike giving up after that night make him heartless or a bad character in my opinion. It literally just makes him human. But that also doesn't mean that's how Mike feels about it, nor does it mean that the manifestation of this guilt isn't going to affect his behavior over the course of the series, causing some very unfortunate choices on Mike's part to then lead to some very unfortunate events for everyone...

Where it starts to get sort of complex is that I think the whole point of the crazy together scene and where it ended up was to for it to showcase how Mike and Will were both willing to accept each other, despite these secrets they've been keeping to themselves.

Will revealed the truth to Mike about how he could still see into the UD, with the addition of seeing this big 'shadow in the sky', followed by asking Mike to not tell the others because they wouldn't understand. Mike then responds by saying El would understand, followed by confiding his own secret to Will that he's been keeping from the others, which is that he thinks he's seen signs that El could still be alive.

The scene then ends with them in agreement that if they're both going crazy, they'll go crazy together, with it arguably being their most incriminatingly romantic moment to date, as it juxtaposes other uncannily similar romantic mentions on the show involving that same word.

But no matter what happens, they're promising to support each other, specifically the weird shit they have going on and could presumably continue to explore that weirdness, without telling anyone else who might judge them for it or misunderstand their feelings entirely...

This is why Mike had no problem with Will going crazy in s2 because as promised, he was going to be right there with him. Also meaning, Mike COULD have had no problem continuing to test out his theory that El was alive, because Will would have supported him.

Obviously, Will sort of had his hands tied in s2 (literally?), but the point still stands. It's not like this was something Mike HAD to give up, because that conversation between him and Will instilled that they would support each other and what makes them feel crazy.

I think the issue though, is that what's causing Mike so much grief daily for almost a year now, is the guilt that came with El's death and him feeling responsible. And so, in contrast to Will's slightly more justified assumptions that what he's seeing could actually be real based on what's happened to him, it's like Mike is asking himself whether he's actually seeing El because she's still alive OR is he just imagining she's still alive because he wants to forgive himself?

A kid deducing that in their head would make them feel pretty awful, don't you think? Maybe even lead them to calling out to that person for almost a year in hopes that they might still be alive?

Meaning Mike choosing that night to walk away, to give up, is likely a result of his conversation with Will making him feel more comfortable with finally letting go of some of that guilt in order to actually start the process of moving on. Because a big part of why he didn't want to move on was because of guilt in the first place.

Also confiding in Will and only Will, not the others, who were hell bent on interpreting all of Mike's feelings for El as romantic, was maybe Mike's way of avoiding the pressure to associate his whole relationship with El as strictly romantic. With Will, maybe Mike knew he wasn't going to spin it into something like that. And he would’ve been right, because Will didn't.

October 30th, Halloween Night (Day 353 - Last call)

You cannot tell me that day 353 isn't framed as the last call. Like Mike is literally walking away dramatically, leaving El alone, with her now just a tiny dot surrounded by darkness. The way it's framed leaves the viewer genuinely feeling heartbroken because there's some very evident finality to what is being presented. And we even see that El feels it too, hence the episode cutting off dramatically with her tear filled eyes.

And so why did Mike choose THIS moment to give up? Why did he choose now to put his 353 day streak to rest? Like, that was impressive as hell. He could have easily kept that going, but instead he decided that this was going to be the last time he was going to try calling out to her...

November 1st (Day 354)

El is still pretty bummed that Hopper came home late last night, but I'm guessing she's even more bummed still processing what might have very well been Mike finally giving up that night too.

Although I don't think El would blame Mike for giving up, still, she too throughout all of this had been building up hope herself. El's been clinging onto the bond she made with Mike, specifically the romantic moments, to the point where she has been watching shows with romantic themes, putting herself in the position of the love interest.

So him not giving up, to El, has been a signal that what they are feeling between each other is very deep and... romantic. Him keeping this going this long is a sign to her that these feelings are pretty much guaranteed. And if he doesn't continue, that hope would obviously dwindle.

At breakfast that morning, Hopper acknowledges the TV cord peaking out of El's room, which is the device she uses to visit Mike from the void, all the way from the cabin. Without it, she is not able to 'communicate' with him, let alone see if he actually didn't give up after that night she feared he did...

Unfortunately her and Hopper have an argument after this, leading to her storming off to her room. And after Hopper is gone, El finds herself being so impatient to see Mike after almost a year of waiting, that she decides to take fate into her own hands. She isn't willing to wait until the evening, which is roughly speaking the usual time Mike uses the walkie to call her every night. She needs to see him now.

And lucky(?) for her, she does!

Finally! A SIGN! After almost a year of no signs that El is alive, since the night she went missing, Mike is getting a sign El is alive!

And he runs after it! He goes to check to confirm his (valid) suspicions, only for her to not be there, with Mike looking disappointed, but also kind of like he's accepted it's a lost cause at this point.

Mike's hope that El is alive and okay and the relief that would come with finally letting go of this massive weight of guilt, is not within reach. He just needs to accept it and let it go. He needs to forgive himself and move on.

On top of all of this, Will is experiencing his own version of crazy. And Mike seems more concerned with focusing on this and supporting Will, than holding onto this hope that El is alive.

So even though Mike just got a sign that El is alive (which parallels to the initial evidence of her being alive outside his house, what literally initiated him to call out to her for almost a year), he doesn't revert back to his approach of not giving up. He sticks by his decision.

The irony of what happens with El the same night that Mike doesn't call, for the first time, is not lost on me...

Tragically, El doesn't know Mike actually gave up (just like she feared he did) because she lost her ability to communicate with him that night.

I wonder how differently things would have played out if she new the truth. Would she have held onto this really romanticized idea of her and Mike's relationship because he never gave up? Or would she have maybe reassured Mike that it was okay that he gave up and moved past it and still hoped and tried to make it work? Honestly, I think the later.

Because again, it's not Mike giving up that makes him a bad person or something that refutes his ability to love her romantically, it just means that it's not true that he never gave up.

And Mike being the only person to know this fact... Um... Cannot be good for him.

October 2nd (Day 355)

As El is trying to revive a modicum of hope that she can see Mike again through the void, to confirm her hopes that he didn't give up, by using the TV like she usually does, she discovers that the cord is broken. It's a lost cause.

On the other side of town, Mike is entirely focused on Will. The previous night, he did not reach out to El. He gave up. And El is none the wiser.

The writers made the choice to have one more night that Mike could have called El because he was at home that night on day 354, a day that actually involved an incident that you'd think would have reignited his hope that she was alive, before he inevitably jumped head first into focusing on Will, with him not being home for the rest of the season. They could have shown us Mike calling out to El from the other side of town, and then cut to her in her room not knowing... And yet, they didn't...

This is where I jump to the end, because the focus primarily when it comes to El and Mike's arcs for the rest of the season are with El trying to find her mom and discover more about herself, while Mike is trying to be there for Will in any way he can.

The sad part is that despite Mike giving up and trying to move on from El's death, that guilt is never really going to go away. He gave El expectations that she had to risk her life to find Will, and all of that built up and inadvertently led to her death.

But maybe Mike can right the wrongs he had El endure by following through on his focus of not letting Will die too? Maybe if Mike can save Will, El wouldn't have died for nothing?

But with this guilt and Mike trying to overcorrect it all, he's also experiencing very real and emotional moments with Will. Will is his best friend, and just a year ago Mike risked everything to get him back. A lot of those moments he experienced with El in s1, moments mixed with romantic expectations, are now also lingering here with him and his friend in s2. Except these aren't forced expectations. Everything Mike’s feeling and doing the entire time comes naturally to him, with none of it requiring pushing or advice from those around him. It's just pure instinct.

In the end, Mike's beside Joyce and Jonathan, who are sharing memories they have with Will to him in hopes it will prove to them he's still in there and able to be saved.

This emotional sequence builds up to Mike using his own memory of Will to try to reach him, one that comes off as platonic in every sense of the word, but visually, and when looked at in the grand scheme of things, especially with what is about to follow and those romantic expectations with El soon being thrust back on him... Well... Shit is about to get real messy.

Upon reuniting with El, Mike was quick to want to tell her that he never gave up, only for her to interrupt him with the exact number of days he called (before he gave up).

This is news to Mike for an abundance of reasons. It means he's not crazy and that El actually was alive those two times he saw her. All this (survivors) guilt that's been building up over the last year could have been avoided if he'd known that she didn't die, that she was okay.

It also means that for some reason, El heard him, and yet she doesn't know that he gave up...

And here Hopper is, revealing that he's been hiding her the whole time aka the perfect person for Mike to take all of this pent-up emotion out on.

Hopper then tells Mike that they will discuss this privately, which I find to be very interesting because it offers a chance for the viewer to see just a glimpse into Mike's emotional state at this moment, without everyone around to affect his ability to truly open up about how he's feeling. And not alone just anywhere in the house, but in Will's room...

Mike is understandably upset because El is alive and Hopper knew this whole time and didn't tell him.

While Hopper didn't technically lie to Mike, at least not in canon because we never got an outright scene on-screen of Mike asking Hopper if El was alive with him denying it (all while knowing she was), it's at the very least a lie of omission...

But the thing is, if Hopper not clueing Mike in on El being alive qualifies as a lie of omission (off-screen), so does Mike not telling El he gave up (on-screen).

If anything Mike's lie of omission also qualifies as a plain old lie, because he outright told El he didn't give up (lied) and didn't correct her when she informed him she knew he didn't. She fully believed it, despite him knowing deep down that it wasn't the full truth.

So while Mike is taking all of his anger out on Hopper as this fighting match comes to a head, it takes a turn.

Hopper is fine with Mike blaming him, he says it's 'okay'. But it's not. Nothing about this is okay to Mike, seeing as this isn't even the whole problem. It's not the problem Mike's actually hiding within his outburst in the first place.

Suddenly Mike starts screaming to Hopper that he's a 'disgusting, lying, piece of shit', chanting LIAR over and over and over again, shoving him repeatedly, only for him to fall into Hopper's arms and start crying, with Hopper reassuring him that he's okay.

Something tells me Mike's emotions here aren't all about Hopper...

Something tells me that Mike's fixation with the word liar doesn't apply to Hopper here as much as it applies to Mike himself (in his eyes)...

The main reason why I think this is what's actually going on here, is because there was no reason to put so much emphasize on this concept of Mike literally walking away that last time he called her.

Why go through the trouble of creating this misunderstanding, by having the TV not work, with El not being able to go into the void to see Mike, THE very night he gave up, if to not plant the seed that this misunderstanding was going to bear some significance? That this misunderstanding (lie? lie of omission?) was going to lead to El assuming Mike didn't give up, all while Mike knows he gave up, but going along with the story that he didn't, for both El's sake and his own?

BECAUSE it's a surprise tool that will help us later!

I also think it's interesting that they decided to have Will go off and dance with a girl at the snowball BEFORE Mike decided to devote himself to El here on out. Like... that is quite the choice after a season of highlighting this bond between Will and Mike where they promise to go crazy together, which is a moment we know Will took romantically.... So, is it possible Mike also took it romantically? We know Will also took Mike's speech to him in the shed romantically, so is it possible Mike did too, with that experience only heightening his emotions and confusion over his feelings for El when he found out she was alive shortly after, leading to his outburst? But then Will is going and dancing with the girl, and here we have Mike's own version of falling behind (the Time After Time lyrics were more literal than you think).

What if they didn't do all of that? Would things have maybe panned out slightly differently if Mike wasn't under the (incorrect) assumption that Will didn't take those moments romantically?

While Mike's guilt might have started in s1, when he played the biggest role in pushing expectations onto El to help them find Will, only for her to 'die', it doesn't end there. Mike's guilt only builds when he holds the knowledge that he did give up hoping she could be alive, all while allowing El to believe the opposite based on what she saw, which was a guiding force for not only her love and dedication to him flourishing, but also for him to then shift his own version of expectations onto himself going forward to make it up to El by trying to be who she wants him to be.

We see how romanticized 353 days is interpreted exclusively as meaning Mike has to be in love with El. But he did give up. So what does that mean for all of this? For their picture perfect love story?

What does it mean for Mike to hold onto this truth, a truth that makes him feel immense guilt, only for him to spend the next year or so making it up to her...?

It means either Mike has to come clean, or he has to deflect and double down.

What option do you think a guilt-ridden, repressed homosexual kid in the 80's is going to choose?

Answer? Deflect and double down.

In s3, Mike is so focused on worrying about El (giving her what he thinks she wants) so he can right all the building up of wrongs he has done at her expense since he met her, and as a result loses Will in the process (where have we heard this before...?)

Instead of Mike having a moment in s3 where he acknowledges that he himself was the first to ever refer to El as a weapon in the first place, to try to save Will in s1, he's now turning around and blaming the others for using El as a weapon 'for no reason'...

No reason? Really Mike? Is it for no reason, or is it just not a good enough reason to you this time?

Or maybe has Mike just actually spent enough time with El now to truly feel a bond with her in order to see her as a full person, slightly outside of this imaginary superhero he's cooked her up to be when he met her that day in the woods, the day his life started because she was his first and only hope of finding Will? (I say slightly bc... I mean we all saw what happened in s4?)

I honestly think it's a mix of both...

I also think it's not a coincidence that Mike doubling down instead of facing the truth about this manifestation of guilt only makes things worse for him. And El. And Will.

Because suddenly he's choosing this moment to blurt out that he loves and can't lose her again, in front of everyone, even to his own dismay and shock. And when El walks in and gives him a chance to say it to her himself, like any person whose in love with someone would want to do, to make them feel loved, he looks terrified.

And when the season ends and Mike is given another chance to say it finally, to El directly, in roughly the exact same spot he had his emotional outburst in the previous season over finding out she was alive at the same time he was still grappling with losing Will again, IN WILL'S ROOM, he freezes. He just lets what happens, happen.

Because after everything, with El right now in front of him, telling him she loves him while being fully convinced he loves her too after everything they've went through, how could he possibly take it back, or try to make her understand his complicated feelings about all of this?

Answer? He can't.

As hard as it is to believe (not that hard honestly based on his track record), Mike's deflection and stalling era is just beginning...

[miharuhebinata]

why do people get so mad & act like you must just have shipping brainrot if you interpret this line as gay....... "you're ignoring the context!!!!!!" actually i'm not, i just have the ability to recognize that a vague line like this can have multiple interpretations & just because some interpret it as romantic, doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

[mikesbasementbeets]

s1e3: friendship, homophobia, and compulsory heterosexuality

bonus:

[thatsparrow]

they did norrington so right with the quiet, emotional but still restrained, "do not make the mistake of believing you are the only man here who cares for elizabeth"

[achairwithapandaonit]

Can't believe my current hyperfixation broke me out of my month long streak of being unable to write anything just to write a potentially long ass byler fic when I never write romance. I'm so fixated on the idea of will getting to have something good happen to him

[inutaffy]

i just think it would have been so cute to symbolize the development and growth of their relationship by letting mike reach out to hold will's hand in the ending sequence. because he's scared and it's so obvious by that conversation in the cabin. and really...will is the only one who knows