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calder · 11 months

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Released in 2010, Obsidian Entertainment's Fallout: New Vegas actively concerns itself with the realities of gay existence, and is widely recognized as a noteworthy work of queer science fiction. New Vegas extensively examines social attitudes towards homosexuality among the game's major factions, and primarily conveys this lore through gay and bisexual characters describing their own experiences. It also allowed the player to mechanically set the Courier's sexual orientation. By taking both available perks, the player character can be bisexual. By choosing neither, the player can opt out of seeing flirtatious dialogue options.

Uniquely, Fallout: New Vegas explores homosexuality in the context of wasteland societies, and touches upon related issues. The core theme of New Vegas is that the desire to recreate the past is driven by irrational nostalgia, and any endeavor to manifest past glory is dangerous and doomed. The social issue of homophobia is used as a demonstrative example. The resurrection of corporate and military power structures presents new avenues for Old World problems such as institutional homophobia to reemerge. One of the many issues that divide the New California Republic and Caesar's Legion is the latter's open persecution of gay people. The NCR is described as tolerant and even accepting of same-sex relationships, though acceptance tends to fall off the further one moves away from the developed, urbanized core of New California. In recent years, the Republic's rapid economic transformation has led to an unforeseen erosion of the humanitarian ideals which it was founded to serve. In practice, to recreate America was to take on its shortcomings and its sins. As subsistence scavenging has dried up, the people of the NCR increasingly turn to wage labor, entrepreneurial venture, or military enlistment to keep their families fed. Meanwhile, their government enacts morally corrosive imperialism (narrative verbiage), their dominion expanding indefinitely as their infrastructure crumbles from within. This has led to a profit-based imperial monoculture which must conquer, consume, and coerce to perpetuate. As personal politics and service labor grow in importance, people find themselves more inclined to present as "normal" in the interest of financial stability and political expedience. A loading screen visualizes this culture of artificial social normalcy: the portrait of President Aradesh on the NCR 5$ bill neglects to depict his unibrow, earring, and facial scarification, overall portraying the once-chieftain so cleanly-cut as to be unrecognizable at first glance. He also appears to be wearing a collared shirt or suit as opposed to the robe he wore in Fallout.

In the Legion, Caesar has mandated that every legionnaire take a wife and produce children, citing high infant mortality rates and the constant need for soldiers, and going as far as instituting child quotas. He treats human beings as a resource to be exploited for war. Ostensibly in this aim homosexuality has been declared a capital offense punishable by death. Historically, routine demonstrations of violence towards women and gay people are a deliberate feature of fascist societies, the only logical cultural conclusion of a government devoted entirely to war and control. In Forlorn Hope letter 9, an NCR soldier wrote wrote the following to his boyfriend:

Dearest Andrew, Writing this seems pretty morbid, but tomorrow we march into the no man's land between our camp and Nelson, which is crawling with Legion. The Major insisted I write this damn "if you get this, I'm dead" letter so here it is. What a crock. I have the luck of the devil and your love on my side, so I'll be home soon. Keep the porch light on for me. We'll party in New Vegas when I get back. I love you. —Devin

Devin believed he would prevail over the Legion because his love would keep him safe. He was found dying or dead on the battlefield, the letter was found on his body. In a post-release patch, the injured soldiers were removed from the battlefield for performance reasons, and never re-implemented. Driven largely in reaction to the Legion's hyper-masculine posturing and misogyny, rumors persist across the Mojave that gay male relationships are not only common within the Legion, but condoned. These rumors are repeated commonly in NCR society. A closeted NCR Major mentions that the Legion is "a little more... forgiving" about close male "friendships," speaking in a hushed tone to avoid suspicion. At the same outpost, the player can encounter Cass, a bisexual civilian woman. She may flirt with a male Courier, who may imply they are gay, prompting her to imply gay men are more common in the Legion. Even as gay men fight and die in the name of love under his command, NCR General Oliver may remark to Courier Six at the Second Battle of Hoover Dam: "If you think after all that's happened, I'm going to grab my ankles and take it like the Legion..."

This writing pertains to institutionalized homophobia which manifests in practice though power structures and social interactions without being written into law. Simply put, in his derogatory remark, the general expresses to his army that military surrender is gay, much like their gay enemy. From the brevity and bluntness of this remark, it's clear that this sentiment is already well understood among his ranks. Logically, to project strength in the eyes of such a leader, one might also project homophobia by scrutinizing and harassing one's peers and subordinates. In this atmosphere, the expression of homophobia is not only normalized, but materially incentivized. For the ambitious, it becomes a tool, and a way of casting shame upon rivals. For the closeted, homophobia becomes a survival tactic, hoping to throw scrutiny off oneself. This is why Major Knight is immediately frightened when a male Courier flirts with him. He is so profoundly alienated that he romanticizes life as a gay man under the Legion. The Legion punish homosexuality with death, and yet Knight characterizes them as more "forgiving" than the NCR. Through these apparently disparate events, the audience can trace how a distorted perception of gay people emerges among insecure men in a military environment, and subsequently becomes ingrained in the corresponding civilian culture. At the 188 Trading Post, a lesbian from the Brotherhood of Steel named Veronica also wryly remarks that she believes legionaries have gay sex about as often as straight sex. She also notes that this only applies to men, as women have no rights whatsoever in Legion society. In this aside, she conveys a pre-existing frustration with lesbophobic social norms. Veronica also mentions that the people of her bunker would rather she remain on the surface. The Mojave Brotherhood of Steel has no official policy prohibiting homosexuality, but an implicit attitude among its dominant members that their limited numbers require everyone to have children to avoid extinction. Numerically, this may seem logical on the surface, given their reluctance to recruit outsiders. However, given their tiny population, this is an ineffective countermeasure, as they do not have nearly enough members to maintain genetic diversity for more than a few generations. This approach is not universally supported by all family units within the Brotherhood, but every individual is ultimately at the mercy of the elder. Veronica was in a lesbian relationship, but they were quietly separated by Elder Elijah, due to the dominant culture of enforcing heterosexual pairing among their population.

Caesar's law has not ended homosexuality within his domain. Despite the obvious risks, some legionaries have continued to pursue relationships behind closed doors, especially given their access to slaves. So long as members complete their societal obligations and fulfill the child quotas, they are able to pursue romance with other men in secret. Homosexual relationships in the faction are noted as being relatively equal compared to the average Legion husband and wife, in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" sort of open secret policy. Gay legionaries must always make sure to keep their activities hidden. A centurion was once almost caught fraternizing with the teenage boy he had chosen to tend his tent. Despite previous "romantic" intentions, he quickly resolved to dispose of the slave to dispel suspicion. Had they been caught together, the centurion would have been charged with homosexuality and sentenced to death. This story is only known because the enslaved young man, Jimmy, managed to escape execution. Further illustrating the cruelty intrinsic to Legion governance, it's stated that homosexuality was the crime, and not the rape of a young slave; in fact, it seems Jimmy was forced to contribute to the child quota despite being a gay teenager, and the experience left him traumatized. He has resolved to never have sex with another woman, as the very notion triggers memories which fill him with disgust, and (in his own words) makes him feel like a slave all over again. The Strip is indifferent to gay people, viewing them as another opportunity to make caps. Both the Gomorrah and the Atomic Wrangler are interested in maximizing profits, and their prostitution services cater to clients regardless of their orientation. The openly gay Jimmy works at nearby Casa Madrid, but there is some tension among his peers due to his co-worker Maude's blatant homophobia. She supposes he's "okay, for one of those," and if propositioned by a female Courier, Maude will direct them to Sweetie for such "perverted" services. Pretty Sarah must regularly intervene to keep the peace among her staff.

The Followers of the Apocalypse, well-read punks who seek to embody healing through anarchistic values, are not concerned with gender. Most are openly and casually sexually active. Upon meeting Courier Six, Arcade Gannon offhandedly makes his gayness known, unprompted. The audience must face the fact that Arcade's apprehension of the Legion is far from abstract; under Legion law, he would be put to death. One possible ending gives further insight into Caesar's hypocrisy: should the player sell Arcade into slavery and leave Caesar alive, he will keep Arcade as a personal physician and philosophical advisor. They intellectually spar at length, and Caesar grows singularly fond of him. Accordingly, Arcade imitates the historic suicide of Cato the Younger by disemboweling himself. The Legion's remaining medics attempted to save his life, but none were Arcade's equal. Caesar understood his doctor's final gesture of contempt, and mourned him for months.

New Vegas ventures further into themes of healing from the trauma of sexual violence, from the perspective of a lesbian character. Corporal Betsy, an NCR sharpshooter, is a rape survivor, and suffers with PTSD from the incident. Her unprocessed trauma has manifested as a maladaptive tendency to aggressively and explicitly proposition the women she encounters, in an effort to reassert a sense of control. This defensive hypersexual impulse has negatively impacted her ability to connect with other women. A male superior officer notes that her behavior is inappropriate for anyone of her stature, but abstains from disciplining her out of sincere concern for her mental health. The Courier can help her begin to recognize these problems, and convince her to seek treatment from Doctor Usanagi at the New Vegas medical clinic, which proves helpful to her as she processes and heals from her trauma.

In Old World Blues, the Think Tank are five floating brains in jars who express themselves by waving robotic arms bearing screens depicting facial features. Before the War, they were federal scientists who committed crimes against humanity in the name of weapons development. Each is stuck in some sort of neuro-bionic feedback loop which prevents them from moving forward with their projects, mentally binding them to their central laboratory. Walking through their homes at Higgs Village, it's clear each was deeply neurotic before they were transformed into floating brains. Now without bodies, they attempt to maintain the illusion that they are exempt from sexuality as purely mental beings, but each displays obvious interest in the human form. They have codified this shaming with the term "formography." Most of the men are obsessively defensive over their complete disinterest in penises, which they talk about constantly. However, the shameless Dr. Dala shows overwhelming interest in observing and recording any and all human functions. Already androgynous in her pre-War life, Dala has taken to self-identifying as a "gender neutral entity" (though she is not known to use they/them pronouns). Regardless of the Courier's gender, they may coquettishly scratch themselves, clear their throat, and stretch in front of Dala until her biomed gel decoagulates. Dr. 8 also responds positively to graphic masturbation advice from Couriers of either gender. The X-8 research facility is ostensibly a massive immersive shrine to Doctor Borous's hatred of Richie "Ball-Lover" Marcus, a long-dead child who bullied Borous centuries ago. He also clings to his resentment of one Betsy Bright, who refused to attend a dance with him, supposedly so she could "go smoke with RICHIE MARCUS." Clearly arrested in development, Borous has literally built a temple to the fantasy of torturing his adolescent romantic rival and feeding him to dogs. His frozen, static characterization of the jock Richie Marcus as a "pinko-commie" who "likes balls" reflects the shallowness, pettiness, and overall misanthropy underlying his patriotic identity. It remains apparent throughout Old World Blues that the Think Tank are all chronically sexually repressed, which is inseparable from the values of the violent and judgmental pre-War culture which created them. With time and isolation, this ingrained repression has manifested as various intense and deranged psychosexual behaviors, including rage-fueled homophobia, voyeurism, and the obsessive performance of puritanical pretense.

____

“Although I’ve been out for a very long time, I made a conscious effort to be out with relation to this project, as I wanted to be visible as a lesbian in the game industry. New Vegas itself is, I think, one of (if not the) best games out there in how we treat homosexuality – and all of that is very intentional.”

“If my work on FNV, if my being out has helped even one gay person, then I have succeeded.” — Tess “Obsidian’s Gay Cowgirl” Treadwell

____

written (with help from other editors) for fallout.fandom.com/wiki/LGBT_representation_in_the_Fallout_series criticism welcome

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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 4 months

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food likes and dislikes + why

Consider this part of the Twisted Wonderland food lore series, I guess? Part 1 and part 2 focus on compiling food culture and related world lore; I will keep adding to them as new information is released. This part expands on the reasons for why each character likes and dislikes the food that they do. Please note: THIS DOES NOT COVER ALL CHARACTERS, only the characters we have official profiles for! The staff do not have least favorite foods listed + other characters like Neige and Che'nya lack profiles, so they are not addressed here.

Additionally, the reasoning behind some likes/dislikes are speculation or implied rather than outright stated as canon. I will indicate when these instances crop up.

Riddle

Favorite: strawberry tarts

Riddle has been fascinated with strawberry tarts since he was a child, as he would see them in the window of the local cake shop. He lovingly describes the bright-red fruit on them as "[shining] at [him] like forbidden jewels", as his mother would liken the sugar content in sweets and pastries to poison.

He tastes his first strawberry tart after meeting Trey and Che'nya. Trey is the one who offers him a slice from his family's bakery. Riddle is entranced by its look and taste. "A bright-red strawberry tart on a white plate. To me, it shined more brightly than any gem could. That first bite was so sweet. It tasted like nothing I'd ever eaten before. With each bite, I became more entranced..."

SPECULATION: The implication, as I read it, is that strawberry tarts fulfill a desire he has long since had but has seldom acknowledged. They are also tied to the positive experience of the intimacy and the first friends Riddle ever made, as well as a symbol of his own agency.

He seems to regularly offer and eat cakes and other sweets at unbirthday parties, as they are a must-have at these events. Other foods he intakes typically adhere to the rules of the Queen of Hearts, even if he has different preferences (such as preferring honey to sugar cubes for his tea, and preferring milk tea over lemon tea).

Least Favorite: junk food

SPECULATION: While we aren't given an explicit reason for Riddle's stance on junk food, it's implied that his mother ingrained in him a sense of which foods and amounts are "right" and 'wrong" to have. He likely still takes her teachings to heart.

Riddle tried fast food for the first time at age 17 and declared that he doesn’t like it and won’t have it again. This supports the idea that he has avoided this kind of food for a long time—again, something instilled in him by his mother.

Trey

Favorite: candied violets

Trey started eating candied violets before he started elementary school. He was so impressed by the concept of edible flowers that he went around trying to eat flowers and weeds he found in the wild.

Trey states that he loves how the flower's aroma overtakes his senses and makes him feel as though he's lying in a bed of violets. He cites this as being the "real appeal" to him.

Trey also says that he gets bad cravings for candied violets and would even snack on his parents' stash (which they prepared for their bakery's cakes). This however did not stop Trey, so it led to his parents setting aside some candied violets specifically for him. In fact, they still send care packages to NRC which contain candied violets. Trey snacks on them on study breaks.

He suggests using candied violets as a sugar substitute. It changes the color of the milk, and he finds that interesting.

Least Favorite: mustard

Che’nya and Trey played Russian Roulette with six cream puffs. Five had regular cream filling and one had mustard.

Trey had bad luck and ended up biting into the one cream puff with mustard inside. There was no water to wash down the flavor, and Che’nya was of no help because he was laughing too hard at his friend’s demise. Trey reports that he “seriously almost cried”. It is this bad experience that bred his dislike of mustard.

Cater

Favorite: spicy ramen

Cater says that a "capsaicin kick" from spicy food "lights a fire under [him] when [he's] feeling out of it" or feeling down in the dumps.

Additionally, ramen pics are "GREAT for [social media] engagement". He usually places a lot of importance on a dish's appearance when judging it.

Least Favorite: anything sweet

When Cater was 10 years old, his mother and two older sisters were into making sweets. Back then, Cater was actually excited for extra desserts. However, they continued to make more sweets every single day. It got to a point where Cater started to have a hard time eating them.

According to Cater, his sisters in particular made things worse. They would pile more sweets onto his plate and tell him there's plenty more where that came from. If Cater said he didn't want any, his sisters would give him puppy dog eyes and he would relent. This would ruin Cater's taste for anything even remotely sweet.

He loves visiting cafes, but the most photogenic items tend to be desserts. Cater has the dilemma where he will order something cute but then can't eat it because of his aversion to sweetness. (The problem is solved if he invites someone to come with to be his human garbage disposal.)

Trey is, so far, the only person who has been able to immediately sus out that Cater doesn't like sweets. Cater usually has to dance around this fact about himself and find roundabout ways to avoid eating sweets (such as suggesting to Trey that he show us UM to the first years so Cater can avoid tasting a sweet chestnut tart).

Ace

Favorite: cherry pie

Ace says cherries are his favorite fruit. There is no further explanation given for why cherry pies in particular are his favorite.

He prefers fresh fruit in his pies as opposed to the “canned stuff”. Ace finds the flavor to be a lot more robust in the former.

SPECULATION: The meta reason for Ace's favorite food may be because the Drink Me potion from Alice in Wonderland is said to taste like "cherry tart, custard, pineapple, roast turkey, toffee, and hot buttered toast". The "tart" was probably changed to "pie" to help differentiate Ace's favorite food from Riddle's favorite food (which also involves a red fruit in a crust).

Least Favorite: raw oysters

When he was a kid, Ace read a book that involved oysters. He can't stand raw oysters because they remind him of that story.

SPECULATION: This is likely a reference to the story of "The Walrus and the Carpenter", which involves a walrus tricking and eating sentient baby oysters in Disney's Alice in Wonderland. It probably traumatized kid!Ace xnsbdkwbiwcnks

Deuce

Favorite: anything with eggs

Deuce comes from a single parent household, so their budget is usually tight. Eggs, being a cheap staple food, was something his mom often prepared for him. They are also simple and versatile enough for even his mom and himself to learn how to cook a variety of ways.

Deuce remarks that he likes his omelets "extra fluffy". It's how he always orders it at the NRC cafeteria.

Least Favorite: pepper (ie the more bitter green ones; JP)/bell peppers (ie red/yellow ones EN)

No matter how small they're chopped, Deuce has never been able to eat (bell) peppers. He says the flavor and the smell are too overpowering for him.

SPECULATION: Pepper is a commonly disliked food among young children in Japan. It’s similar to how broccoli is disliked by children in the west. The implication may be that Deuce is still immature like a little kid that hates peppers.

Leona

Favorite: meat

The only reason Leona provides is pretty vague; he says he needs the protein so he can perform to the best of his abilities in magical shift/spelldrive.

Least Favorite: vegetables

He claims that if a carnivore is eating greens, then it's sick. Therefore, there is "no reason" for him to eat any. He's perfectly healthy!

SPECULATION: Given that Leona also refers to others as "herbivore" in a derogatory sense, it's possible that he views those who eat plants as weaker than him. He, with the DNA of a carnivore, is technically "above" them in the food chain and doesn't deign to "lower" himself to their status by eating vegetables. This implies that a lot of his tastes essentially boil down to "I'm a lion, lions don't eat vegetables (heavy sarcasm)."

Ruggie

Favorite: donuts

Ruggie's family struggled to put food on the table, so they couldn't afford birthday cakes. Instead, Granny Bucchi would make simple donuts for him. He loves the warm and fluffy insides and crispy outsides.

Once Ruggie started earning income through various part-time jobs, they could afford ingredients to make fancier donuts with different toppings such as chocolate dip and almonds. Even though Ruggie can now afford to get himself a birthday cake, he still craves his grandma's homemade donuts.

Least Favorite: anything rotten

When Ruggie was younger, he got a nasty stomachache from eating old bone-in steak. He learned from that experience that if food rots, it's ruined and he can't shouldn't eat it for his health and safety.

He will basically eat anything as long as it isn't rotten though. This includes bones, as hyenas have strong jaws and are able to munch on them.

Jack

Favorite: pear compote

The pear is Jack's preferred fruit. He specifically likes compote because it is sweet. Jack says that a good compote will help melt exhaustion and restore lost carbohydrates after a workout.

Least Favorite: green onions

While Jack does not comment on green onions in particular, it is implied that he does not care for them because they are smelly. He comments that the cafeteria's soup has too many onions in it and that it messes with his sense of smell. Being a wolf beastman, his senses are heightened, so he is sensitive to smells.

Azul

Favorite: fried chicken (EN)/kaarage (JP)

No special reason is given in-game. Azul enjoys fried chicken but does not allow himself to eat it often as he is aware of how unhealthy it is.

He has tried many recipe substitutions to make his favorite food healthier for his consumption, but the flavor and texture always fall short of the real thing. Some methods he has already tried include using cooking methods other than deep-frying and using soy beans instead of meat.

SPECULATION: It can be inferred that fried chicken is a favorite of Azul's since childhood, and something that his mother served him in high amounts during celebrations. This may be led to his overweightness as a child, something which he holds a lot of lingering insecurities about.

Least Favorite: healthy foods (EN)/nutritionally balanced meals (JP)

Azul recalls a period of his life when he would eat mostly health food since it is an easy way to count calories. After a while, he began to dislike health food for this very reason.

Jade

Favorite: octopus carpaccio

No special reason is given in-game.

SPECULATION: The meta reason for this being Jade's favorite food is likely because moray eels (which the twins are) eat octopus. Carpaccio is a dish that is served raw, just like how real moral eats consume octopus.

Least Favorite: conger eel

Jade says that he dislikes conger (saltwater) eels because "the texture simply does not live up to [his] tastes".

Floyd

Favorite: takoyaki

Floyd likes to put unusual stuff inside takoyaki instead of the typical octopus filling. It keeps him from getting bored. Fillings he has tried before include cheese, shrimp, sausage, oysters, tomato, broccoli, strawberries, whipped cream, chocolate, anchovies, potato salad, and konjac.

He gets a real kick out of seeing who can make the worst tasting takoyaki. No matter how bad the odd fillings taste, Floyd eats every last one. He doesn't want to get told off by Azul for wasting food.

He has plenty of practice flipping takoyaki in the pan, so it isn't difficult for him.

Least Favorite: shiitake mushrooms

Jade puts shiitake mushrooms in "pretty much anything". Because of this, just seeing a shiitake mushroom pisses Floyd off.

Kalim

Favorite: coconut juice

There is no clear in-game reason provided. However, Kalim likes coconut juice to the point where it's not unusual for him to order 100 coconuts from a fruit vendor in Silk City.

SPECULATION: Aside from being a refreshing beverage, coconut juice has historically been used to reverse the effects of poisons and drug overdoses in both India and Africa. We know that Kalim has had multiple attempts on his life, including intentional poisoning of his food, so this may be why Kalim has acquired a taste for coconut juice.

Least Favorite: curry

Kalim's dislike of curry originates from an incident in which Jamil, his dedicated food tester, fell into a two week-long coma after tasting poisoned curry intended for Kalim. He has not been able to stomach curry since.

Jamil

Favorite: curry

Despite going through a traumatic experience with curry, it remains Jamil's favorite food. It hasn't really deterred him.

SPECULATION: Jamil expresses interest in sampling curries from all over Twisted Wonderland, as it is different in every country. Therefore, curry may be a dish that Jamil sees as "international" and sates his yet-to-be-achieved desire of being free to travel and see the world.

Least Favorite: dates

Jamil used to love eating dates as a child. One day, the dates he had bought from a fruit stall had a bug on them. He freaked out and set off a spell, setting the fruit stall on fire. Jamil has not been able to eat dates since finding that bug on them.

Vil

Favorite: homemade smoothies

Vil likes the customizability of homemade smoothies, especially seeing as he is a model and actor who has to watch his figure. Green smoothies are particularly appealing since they can be chock-full of nutritious fruits and vegetables. It's also easy to alter the flavor to your liking.

Least Favorite: mayonnaise

Vil used to have mayonnaise on his salad when he was younger. This was done almost on a daily basis. He got three pimples from this diet, which were painful and not photogenic for a child star. Vil eventually learned that mayonnaise "doesn't agree with [his] skin". Now he usually takes his salads with salt, olive oil, or vinegar.

He doesn't mind the flavor or the texture of mayonnaise. If he is given mayo in a meal, he won't let it go to waste. He just does not enjoy eating it because of the pimple trauma.

Rook

Favorite: liver pâté

Rook describes it as "a delicacy" that is "both rustic AND refined at the same time". He says he was first captivated by its smooth and creamy texture that melts on your tongue. Rook attributes the appeal of the dish as being dependent on its freshness, so he enjoys it only on rare occasions.

Least Favorite: garlic

He calls his dislike of garlic a "professional aversion". Garlic is smelly and tends to linger after consumption, so Rook worries that the aroma will alert others (whether wild animals or other people) to his presence. He wants to be able to blend in with his surroundings!

Epel

Favorite: yakiniku (JP)/grilled meats (EN), macarons

Epel loves grilled meats because he has fond memories of it from Harveston. His family and neighbors would arrange gatherings where they take big hunks of meat and grill them on a charcoal fire. He admits that it's not fancy, but it makes for a "mighty fine meal". Epel also loves the fresh veggies that you eat with the meat; they have a natural sweetness to them. The veggies can be eaten straight off the grill without sauce and still be perfectly tasty.

Epel says he likes macarons "more" than even grilled meats, but this information is pretty dubious since we learn in his Ceremonial Robes vignettes that Vil seems to have instructed him to make this claim. It's sliiightly confusing because Azul seems to believe Epel does like macarons and questions if his sources were wrong when Epel looks surprised that he knows that (which seems to contradict the idea that Vil told him to lie about his tastes).

When asked why he likes macarons, Epel responds with, "They're... cute. And sweet! And they come in lots of different flavors. They're not very filling, but still." He makes a similar comment about macarons not being very filling in Glorious Masquerade.

Least Favorite: nashi pear (JP)/apple pear (EN)

Epel says that while the flavor of nashi pears is not bad, he dislikes them because "they're jist pretendin' ta look like apples"! Indeed, if you google "nashi pear", you'll see that they visually resemble apples.

In Port Fest, he and Jack get into an argument over what would be a better topping: apples or pears?

Idia

Favorite: sweets (ie candies; JP)/snacks (EN)

Idia says that he likes snack foods and candies because they're easy to eat while gaming.

He also says that he loves DIY candy kits, where you can make your own cute little sweet treats using water and powder packets. "It turns snack time into a game! It's easy to get totally absorbed, too." Idia likes the idea of being able to change the color and shape of the snacks himself. He insists (unprompted) that these DIY candy kits are NOT just for kids.

SPECULATION: This is just a funny thought I had while reading Idia's dialogue, but I wonder if he would also pull out the L (Death Note) style explanation of "I'm a genius, so I use a lot of brain power! So the logic follows that I should eat a lot of carbohydrates/sugar to refuel."

Least Favorite: raw fish

Idia dislikes raw fish because "it stinks, it's lukewarm, it's all slimy and clingy and sticky..."

Another large part of why Idia dislikes dish is because "real" food like that requires proper tableware to eat. He thinks this just adds "pointless busywork" to meals (and has a similar attitude when it comes to cooking). "Who cares how you get nutrients, as long as you get them? Just eat an energy bar with vitamins and minerals! Bam, EZ."

Ortho

Favorite: nothing

Least Favorite: nothing

Ortho does not require nutrients to live, being that he is a technomantic humanoid. He is, however, capable of taking pictures of food and analyzing ingredient makeup.

Idia has made an Oral-Energy-Intake Gear, which allows Ortho to eat food like everyone else. It's not clear what happens to the food Ortho eats though.

Malleus

Favorite: ice-cream

Malleus likes frozen desserts! When he breathes fire, the inside of his mouth gets very hot. Eating something cold like ice-cream helps to cool the temperature of his mouth--and this temperature contrast helps to enhance the flavor of the ice-cream.

Malleus shares an instance when he had frozen a castle and some servants in a tantrum; Lilia was able to salvage the situation by using his magearm and flavored syrups to make shaved ice, which he shared with everyone. He then used this opportunity to teach Malleus to use his powers wisely. This isn’t ice-cream, but it’s still another positive memory Malleus has related to cold desserts.

He likes to try different varieties of frozen treats and compare their flavors and appearances. Malleus doesn't seem to understand all the different nuances though. For example, he has a popsicle stick that declared that he had won something, but didn't know he was supposed to claim a prize. He does, however, understand that it is highly valuable and has it stored somewhere. He plans on bringing it home to Briar Valley when he graduated.

Least Favorite: whole/full-sized cakes

He doesn't have anything against sweets, but rather directs his ire at excess. Malleus never has people to share cakes with, so he ends up trying to eat the whole thing by himself on special occasions. He never finishes them in a single sitting and says they give him heartburn.

Malleus says he may see whole cakes in a better light once he has company to split them with.

Lilia

Favorite: tomato juice

There's not a lot in the way of the tomato juice lore. The best we've got is Lilia remarking that he has recently been into drinking and comparing different tomato juices. He claims the tastes and textures can be very different.

Lilia is also fond of berry juice, which he says is a specialty of Briar Valley. He encourages the guests at his farewell party to indulge in it.

SPECULATION: Some fans headcanon that Lilia likes drinking tomato juice because it resembles blood, and Lilia behaves in very bat-like ways. This could be the specialized traits of his species of fae.

My personal speculation is maybe the reasoning is similar to what is typically given for Jamil's love of curry; Lilia is someone who is worldly and well-traveled, so maybe he just likes tasting the local produce in an easy-to-go-down way.

Least Favorite: marshmallows

Lilia does not like the taste. Additionally, hee thinks it's boring that, despite how bulky they are, they disappear as soon as you put them into your mouth.

Silver

Favorite: mushroom risotto

Silver says that risotto was the first dish he ever cooked himself. He likes the simplicity of it.

SPECULATION: Silver may have a preference for mushroom risotto because it includes an ingredient that is easily foraged in the forest (well, granted you can tell which are edible). Recall that he spent most of his days there and had to take care of himself for unspecified stretches of time when Lilia was off on his travels. Simplicity and ease of access was a big deciding factor in what Silver prepared for himself.

Least Favorite: Lilia’s cooking

… Does this even NEED an explanation? We all know how bad Lilia’s cooking is, and poor Silver somehow grew up on it 😭

What is sort of sweet is that Silver tries to convince himself to get over the poor quality of Lilia’s food by saying that what matters the most is sharing that time with loved ones.

Sebek

Favorite: salmon carpaccio

Sebek has a memory of going fishing at the lake by his grandfather's house with his older brother and sister. His siblings helped Sebek pull a large salmon out and then prepared carpaccio from it to serve for dinner. He loved seeing how delighted his parents and grandpa were to see it at the table. His grandpa even smiled, an occurrence which Sebek notes is rare. Now when he has salmon carpaccio, it reminds him of home.

Sebek says he could have salmon carpaccio for three meals a day and still never get tired of it. Keep in mind that Sebek also has a large appetite (claiming that eating three helpings for one meal is eating light), so that's a LOT of salmon carpaccio.

Least Favorite: black coffee

He cannot so much as tolerate a mouthful of "that muck" because of its bitterness. Indeed, we see how poorly he takes down black coffee when he mixes his order and Malleus's up in Glorious Masquerade.

Sebek is resentful that Silver can drink many cups of black coffee (to keep awake) and that his fellow knight shares a freshly brewed pot with their liege. "IT REALLY GRINDS. MY GEARS."

People have advised Sebek to sweeten his coffee with cream or sugar. He adamantly refuses to do this, since he believes that's something only children would do. "It's mortifying!" Furthermore, Sebek hates the thought of being the "odd one out" taking his coffee differently. "I refuse to let Silver outshine me in a matter so trivial!"

Sebek has been working tirelessly to train himself to tolerate coffee, since he wants to be able to share the same experience with Malleus. Now he is able to take one splash of coffee in his milk.

It should also be noted that Sebek used to dislike vegetables that were very bitter, so it seems that he has an aversion to bitterness in general. He has conquered bitter vegetables and is smug about surpassing that challenge.

SPECULATION: ... This gives the vibes of a child who is still immature so they hate taking down bitter things. I guess it suits Sebek's "I wanna grow up fast!" behavior.

Grim

Favorite: canned tuna

... Look at him. Is he not peak cat? 🤡

SPECULATION: I'd imagine that Grim developed a taste for canned tuna in part because that's most of what he eats on Ramshackle's measly budget. They likely cannot afford fresh fish or other extravagant meals.

Least Favorite: nothing

LISTEN. Grim literally eats ROCKS. Plus, he literally snatches others' food and is eager to try foods and started his own club that revolves around food!! I don't think there's anything he won't consider shoving into his mouth.

Crowley

Favorite: wild game

Crowley describes himself as an avid connoisseur of meat and will eat any meat: beef, pork, chicken, and wild game (also called gibier). He encourages the other staff members to sample new meats when they can.

He claims to "prefer treats with subtler flavors rather than overpowering ones."

Crowley also appears to like mangos. He was excited to try the mango juice of the southern country that he vacationed to in book 4. Crowley also brought back mango souvenirs for the staff, including a sweet and sour mango tea for Trein. He reminisces about the sweet mangos he enjoyed and the sunny beach he was on back then.

SPECULATION: Crowley probably likes wild game because he is twisted from a crow or a raven of some kind. Those birds are known to scavenge the meat of various dead animals (carrion).

Least Favorite: unknown

While we don’t have a confirmation for what Crowley’s least favorite food is, he doesn’t seem to like spicy foods—or, at least, he does not tolerate spice well. He complains about the tomato stew at the cafeteria causing him to sweat and cry at the same time. Crowley is also hesitant to sample Scarabian cuisine since he has heard that their food is liberally spiced.

Crewel

Favorite: raisin butter

Crewel says that raisin butter pairs well with adult beverages. He finds the aftertaste of raisin butter excellent and enjoys its appearance too--its spotted look reminds him of dalmatians.

Crewel indicates that he enjoys tea; he brews his own blends and frequents a specialty coffee stall in the Foothill Town for its tea. He has known the owner since he was a student and pals around with him.

SPECULATION: It’s notable that raisins, which are in Crewel’s favorite food, are deadly to dogs. This is ironic, because we know that Crewel is an avid lover of canines—but the character he is twisted from, Cruella de Vil, loathes dogs and is rumored to skin them for fur coats.

Least Favorite: unknown

Sam

Favorite: chicken gumbo

SPECULATION: As far as I'm aware (and believe me, I looked everywhere I could), there's no given in-game explanation for why this is Sam's favorite. The best I've got is that chicken gumbo is a regional dish from New Orleans, the region from which The Princess and the Frog is inspired by.

Least Favorite: unknown

Trein

Favorite: vichyssoise

Trein finds the texture of the vichyssoise served by the NRC cafeteria smooth and pleasant. The students don't have the same appreciation for it; Trein says that he is the only one that ever orders the dish.

SPECULATION: Like Sam, Trein is not provided with a clear reason why he favors vichyssoise. But!! If we think about the composition of the dish, it's made with very cheap and accessible ingredients--even a peasant could afford them. Vichyssoise, then, could be representative of the story of Cinderella, where a kind-hearted girl's beauty was able to shine even when she was covered in cinders. The beauty of even simple vegetables is able to shine in vichyssoise!

Least Favorite: unknown

Vargas

Favorite: raw eggs

Vargas reports eating large amounts of raw eggs (roughly 60 for a single meal). He was told by the cafeteria ghosts that it would be troublesome if he ate so many of their eggs every time he dines there, so he has since started to bring his own eggs.

Sam tries to avoid stocking perishables, but the one exception is eggs. That's because Vargas always buys his entire stock.

SPECULATION: A meta reason for why Vargas eats an absurd amount of raw eggs is that this is a clear reference to Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. In his villain song, Gaston says he eats 5 dozen eggs, which is exactly 60--the same amount that Vargas eats. He needs a lot of protein to maintain his muscles!

Least Favorite: unknown

Rollo

Favorite: grapes

Rollo eats the same lunch 365 days a year, and prefers to take it in an area away from others. (Presumably, he does the same with his other meals.) This lunch consists of 2 croissants, a cup of café au lait (coffee with milk), and exactly 16 grapes.

He says that, with a strict routine like this, he can forgo unnecessary desires. Rollo finds it refreshing and recommends that others try it. The exception seems to be special occasions; he says he has an extra croissant on those days.

SPECULATION: No canon reason is given for why Rollo loves grapes (many fans actually thought croissants were his favorite before his SSR came out). What I believe is that Rollo likes grapes because they're easy to count and limit one's consumption of (because of how small they are). It fits perfectly into his stringent life.

Least Favorite: savarin

SPECULATION: Again, no canon reason is given. If I had to speculate based on what I know of him and how he takes his meals, then... I'd wager he doesn't like savarin because of how overly indulgent it is. It's a ring-shaped cake soaked in flavored syrup and then topped with cream and various fruits. For someone who regularly has bread and one type of fruit (grapes) for his meals, savarin is basically a sin.

Fellow

Favorite: apples

SPECULATION: This may be a reference to his character inspiration, Honest John. In the scene where he meets Pinocchio, he steals the apple Pinocchio is carrying and eats it. Notably, Playful Land also offers apple-flavored items.

Least Favorite: potatoes

SPECULATION: Potatoes are a very starchy (and thus filling) and easy to raise staple crop. I believe the implication here is that Fellow had to eat so many potatoes when he was low on other foods that he eventually became sick of them.

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juyendraws · 2 months

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[Limbus Company] Faust’s Development (or Lack Thereof) in Intervallo 6.5

So Murder on the WARP Express came out and uh… The suspicions I had regarding Faust’s future arc ended up being confirmed. Faust is definitely not reaching out to the truth. I didn't expect the seeds for her story to be planted so soon, but here we are. It’s real. And you're probably thinking, “Uh… WTF are you talking about?” Let me explain to you what I mean.

The message of Library of Ruina is a critical part to understanding what's going on in Limbus Company. I will tell you straight-up here and now, absolutely nobody in the fanbase knows what the hell LoR is actually about. Nobody. And it is such a shame, because it has such a great message that absolutely nobody talks about. I'd love to tell you much more about it, but that involves long explications on Jungian Psychology, the Jewish Kabbalistic Tree of Life, and the story itself, which I don't wanna subject you to yet (I am saving my esoteric lore dumping for the video scripts I’m currently working on). What I will tell you, however, is that the lessons learned by Angela and Roland in LoR are all about opening oneself to everything that is possible in life. The ways in which they do this are:

(1) To listen to one's inner world, or intuition. Don’t just blindly believe whatever someone else says. Follow your own inner voice.

(2) To listen to one's outer world, or reason. Don't just believe whatever you want to believe. Look at the facts and be receptive to others' opinions.

That's all you need to know for now about this particular subject. The theme of opening oneself to infinite possibilities is one that carries over from LoR to Limbus Company, and it is present in every Sinners' story. Literally all of them were/are limiting themselves in one way or another due to their flawed beliefs. And each of them is on their own journey of self-realization, or in Jungian terms, “individuation.”

The Mirror Worlds also expand on this theme. They provide infinite ways of looking at the same subject, which sounds wondrous and exciting at first, but it really just reflects what's already there. Remember Yi Sang's and Heathcliff's arcs? For Yi Sang, the Mirror reflected his already-existing potential, while for Heathcliff, the Mirror reflected his surrender to a perceived fate. Mirror World Identities may offer additional combat prowess as well as insight into the characters/worldbuilding, but they end up being quite limiting due to their usage (basically “cheating”) and very nature (as "reflections").

Moreover, Goethe's Faust was something that repeatedly showed up in my research on Jungian Psychology. I kept finding Faust's story referenced in articles, academic journals, as well as the book I'm currently reading called Man and His Symbols. This book was written by Carl G. Jung and some of his most trusted followers, and it legitimately explains what Project Moon's mindset was while forming the world and stories of their games (I am not even exaggerating. I have to constantly pause my audiobook and write down notes on what I'd just read because it keeps indirectly revealing PM’s intentions for the series). Anyway, in one of Joseph L. Henderson's chapters named “Heroes and Hero Makers,” he talks about how the archetype of the hero cycle is represented in many stories. An aspect of this archetype essentially revolves around the “hero vs. villain,” or in Jungian terms, the “ego vs. shadow.” The hero must face off against the dragon and triumph. It’s about the development of consciousness through the "ego" (awareness that one exists and has an identity) mastering and assimilating the "shadow" (the parts about ourselves we don’t like or don’t acknowledge deep down). This archetype exemplifies the stage that’s supposed to take place during childhood and adolescence—it’s about growing up. If the hero fails to slay the dragon, i.e. a person fails to assimilate their shadow into their psyche, they become stuck in this state of immaturity. Henderson uses Faust as an example:

“One can see this theme, incidentally, in a well-known literary hero figure—Goethe’s character of Faust. In accepting the wager of Mephistopheles, Faust put himself in the power of a “shadow” figure that Goethe describes as “part of that power which, willing evil, finds the good.” Like the man whose dream I have been discussing, Faust had failed to live out to the full an important part of his early life. He was, accordingly, an unreal or incomplete person who lost himself in a fruitless quest for metaphysical goals that failed to materialize. He was still unwilling to accept life’s challenge to live both the good and the bad” (Man and His Symbols, page 121).

Henderson is saying that Faust is reluctant to face life’s hardships, so he lets his unconscious aspects—his shadow, or Mephistophiles—control what he does because it’s easier for him to live that way. And as a result, he remains this underdeveloped, immature person.

In Limbus, Faust’s shadow is Mephistophiles, the reflection of her inner pride and desire to learn more. The knowledge she gains from the bus, her ability to communicate with her IDs, is incapacitating her ability to develop as a person. She’s using it as a crutch. And her overreliance on this knowledge, ironically, reveals how truly ignorant she is. The literal shadow cast in Faust’s E.G.O is her IDs for these very reasons—she is afraid of not knowing what to do.

Anyway, the reason I brought up LoR’s message and the Mirror Worlds earlier is because it is very, VERY relevant to Faust’s arc. Each of the Sinners need to reach out to all the possibilities of life. To not just blindly follow their own beliefs or the beliefs of others, but to see the truth through their own eyes, unclouded by bias. Through her use of the Mirror Worlds, Faust goes, “Well, I’m already reaching out to all possibilities! I’m following my intuition and using reason!” And she technically is, but it’s paradoxical. She is using intuition and reason… But it’s all through the use of her IDs, which are both “herself” and “not herself” at the same time. So she’s still just blindly following her own beliefs and the beliefs of others; she’s only listening to her own opinions and copying down what others say to her, all at the same time.

I noticed this while rereading key parts of the game again. In Episode 6-25, the Sinners discover the researchers’ experiments below Wuthering Heights. Faust was utterly oblivious as to what their goals were, and Dante commented on how odd her behavior was when she finally started talking.

Later in Episode 6-44, she urges them to find out who informed Erlking Heathcliff about the Mirror Worlds, causing them to pick up on the fact that she doesn’t actually know everything.

In Episode 2 of the 3rd Walpurgis Night, Faust freezes up when asked by Dante to give a more detailed explanation on the Library. She then gives soft confirmation that she is, indeed, in cahoots with her IDs.

Murder on the WARP Express spilled everything. As a result of being separated from Mephistopheles, she is forced to be without her IDs and must figure things out on by herself. Her complete cluelessness regarding what to do demonstrates her lack of any true life experience. She acts like a newborn baby attempting to walk. However, while she is clueless, she is not helpless. She, in fact, does have the potential to grow if she puts her mind to it. Faust exhibits curiosity, ingenuity, and amiability when she must undergo the trials of the WARP train incident.

She takes interest in the perspectives of the other Sinners when asking for help. She is able to discover new things and problem-solve by herself.

Faust can learn on her own and make friends if she really wanted to.

...Unfortunately, she falls back to her dependency on Mephistopheles at the end of the story and closes herself off once again.

Faust refuses to experience any pain that could otherwise spark a realization about herself. She is harming her ability to form relationships with others, as she habitually ignores them or prevents them from giving her advice. She actively denies herself the chance to truly learn about the world and come to her own conclusions—she is impeding her own personal growth.

Out of all the Sinners, Faust is probably the least developed as a person. Yi Sang, Ishmael, Heathcliff—even those who are about to undergo or are still undergoing their arcs such as Don Quixote, Rodion, or Meursault—are fully-formed people. Faust is not. She is still stuck at the stage of having evolved ego-consciousness while everyone else around her is already achieving the Self. She's worryingly far behind. It’s honestly really sad to watch.

I was debating on whether or not I should make this post for a few reasons. For one, I’m unable to read Goethe’s Faust at the moment, as I am still preoccupied with my research on Jungian Psychology and Jewish Mysticism for the previous two PM games (Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina). I didn’t want to say anything too specific about Faust’s story until I read her book. Secondly, this topic is really difficult to explain without delving into the Jungian elements in the PM universe. I felt I would end up confusing people if I just came out of nowhere with this post; I initially wanted to speak more about the foundational elements before anything else.

Nevertheless, I feel that this knowledge I had on Faust, Jung, and PM’s lore was relevant enough to share. I was SHOCKED at how accurately I had predicted Faust’s future character development. The only other person I told this to was my younger sister, and I said, “Faust basically found a loophole through the lessons Angela and Roland learned in LoR. She’s only believing whatever she wants to believe, while also only believing what other people tell her. She’s using Mephi and her IDs as a crutch… I think that’s why she’s alone a lot of the time.” AND I ENDED UP BEING RIGHT. I had to stand up multiple times while playing through the Intervallo with my sister because of how excited I was at this.

Murder on the WARP Express demonstrates that a good understanding of the games’ themes and of Jungian literary analysis is absolutely essential to figuring out each Sinners’ arc in Limbus. Deciphering, for example, the specifics of Faust’s connection with Gesellschaft is not-so-much valuable as having a strong grasp on what aspects of her character PM is trying to explore. “What is the text communicating? How does it relate to Jung’s ideas? What is the lesson this character is meant to learn?”

That is what matters at the end of the day.

#limbus company #lcb #library of ruina #lor #faust limbus company #faust lcb #project moon #analysis #juyentalks #yikes its almost 4 am #i didnt intend for this to be my first post but whatever lol

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unseelie-grimalkin · 2 years

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I'm going for gold, lads, lasses, and other gendered classes!

Do you like visual novels? Do you like stories about the fey? Do you like your entertainment as EDUTAINMENT?

IF SO, BOY HOWDY DO I HAVE A VISUAL NOVEL PROJECT FOR YOU.

youtube

The Good People (Na Daoine Maithe) is a lore-rich and choice-driven romantic visual novel inspired by Irish mythology. Play as an Irish tenant farmer from the mid-19th century, whose path becomes inexplicably entwined with fairy affairs after getting robbed by the roadside and lured into the mythic and war-torn world of Tír na nÓg: A once unified land, now divided into the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. Will you escape with your stolen belongings? Or does fate have something else in mind?

OKAY, BUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR YOU, SEEKER OF SEROTONIN?

6 wonderful romantic/PLATONIC options (each love interest can be pursued entirely platonically)

a visual novel whose philosophy is less on anxiety-inducing, arbitrary choices to get a good or bad ending, but instead focuses on if you, the player, are interacting with a character in a healthy or unhealthy manner, leading to player freedom and choice

intelligent and reflective writing that is reflected within character moments and dialogue

and MORE! (so much more!)

WHERE CAN I FIND MORE OUT ABOUT THIS GAME?

Here is the bio link, which has links for the indie developers' social media accounts (Tumblr, Twitter, Discord Server) along with the link to their official website, which has a deep dive into every main NPC and the philosophy of the game. The demo is out now and free on both Steam and Itch.io

(As an official statement: I am in no way employed or affiliated with Moirai Myths and I was not approached in any way to make this post. This is me being a feral fan on main, blazing this post)

EDIT:

HELLO EVERYONE! DID YALL KNOW THE KICKSTARTER FOR THIS GAME JUST LAUNCHED TODAY? NOW YOU DO! MORE DETAILS AND MORE FUN TO BE HAD!

They’re doing voice acting reveals this month, along with an early bird special to see blushing/flirty emotes!

EDIT THE SECOND:

WE HAVE REACHED FULL FUNDING WITH THE GAME! Which is excellent, because it means that my little hyperfixation is gonna be made!

However!

It would be very nice if we could reach some of the stretch goals (which go into depth here: x). Not only are they fun (MC customization, a switch port, expanded voice-over work, more sprites, mini-games, side stories), but I think they'd spark a lot of serotonin for folks playing (myself included).

If this post has interested you at all, please, please, please check out the Kickstarter above! Thank you!

EDIT THE THIRD

Since this is still getting notes beyond my wildest dreams:

Hello! It's been a while! The Kickstarter ended a bit ago (I did not update this post when it did end, due to being ecstatic to how much the project managed to get: 130% funding!), but development is ongoing and strong! The first two routes are in development right now. Please keep tuned at @moiraimyths for official development updates!

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triglycercule · 3 months

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i think the creators in the undertale multiverse is SUCH a creative concept and even though it's fourth wall breaking it's so amazing that it deserves to break the fourth wall

everytime other medias and games or stories break the fourth wall it's either taken unseriously (like pinkie pie from mlp or family guy cutaways) or people shit on it for being out of place and just a deus ex machina or something (hi3 i will NEVER hate you for including the players in the final arc) but the undertale multiverse completely subverts that. actually the entire MULTIVERSE is BASED on the concept that people are willing to make media and art and writing and that is what keeps these ocs and worlds and creations going and alive

the utmv isn't even a real thing. like it's not a fandom that spawned from a book or a movie or a show or game or comic. ok well it technically is but the undertale fandom and the undertale AUs fandon are two different things i think. like undertale aus ofc came from undertale but that's a whole seperate branch of things and sometimes those aus have NOTHING to do with undertale (looking at you dreamtale. and others.)

but the fact that a whole seperate branch of a fandom was created just because people wanted to expand on one tiny game and had so much love for it that it spawned this clusterfuck of a fandom is just so amazing to me. i don't think any other fandom has THIS extensive of a multiverse with aus where the people holding the pencils and typing words are so heavily engrained into the lore (ink and error i will forever love you for being aware of creators I AM AWARE OF YOU TOO!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!)

in other fandoms there's a strict canon for medias but in the utmv a lot of aus are just a brief concept and maybe some charactization and that's it (dusttale ily 4 this. dusttale is peak fiction). and if you like the concept enough you can make another concept based on it. and if someone else likes your au enough they might make another au based on it or write headcanons for it. and it's so cool that this fandom is kinda self sustaining in a way. undertale's probably never gonna get another update or game and even though deltarune has its connections its a completely seperate thing. but somehow the fandom is alive and still pumping out tons of amazing content

and the fact that we control all of these character's actions is so daunting but also so cool. like these characters do these things because we basically script them to do. we as creators are the ones drawing the angst or writing the shit posts. if a character is self aware of the creators that's just because we MADE them aware. so are they really aware or are we just pretending that we are. if a character is powerful that's just because we made them powerful. if a character hates the creators we made them hate us. if a character destroys aus we make them do that. but they don't actually feel that way or do those things, that's just what we tell them to do and i think that's really cool

ive yapped a lot about this topic (i still have so much more to say) but i'll hold it back and just talk about one last thing and that's headcanons and interpretations. I LOVE PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUAL INTERPRETATIONS!!! I LOVE PEOPLE'S HEADCANONS FOR CHARACTERS!!! i love seeing how other people think the mtt (or other characters but i am a murder time trio fanatic) would interact or how they would act. i love seeing people's dumb comics of them bickering or making out (errrmmmmm) because it's all different. all these people came up with their own ideas and thoughts on how to expand these relatively basic concepts and it's all different because everyone's different and gone through different things <333

all in all i love you undertale multiverse. this fandom is one of the most unique i've ever had the joy of being in and i hope it never dies out (if it dies out what will happen to all of the amazing creations and worlds and people we've made 😕😕😕 ink will be sad. so pls don't die utmv)

#undertale multiverse #undertale au #sans au #utmv #utmv au #people are still making aus and drawing snd writing and i think thats so amazing #I'M one of those people and im actually contributing to keeping the mv alive #when a character has so many different interpretations does it really matter what canon is anymore #maybe everyone's own idea of a character is fanon and the collective opinion of a character + og creator influence #is what REALLY makes something canon #idk im over analyzing this goddamn fandom. someone sedate me #what makes me sad is in hi3 the devs tried to include the players in the final battle as a thank you for playing the game #and everyone shat on them for it because the players shouldn't be inserted into the game #and the character that summoned the players (ai chan/hyperion) is still being shit in to this day #anyways that was a certified #tricule rant

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vangbelsing · 3 months

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About Messmer and Rellana

Spoilers will be under the cut, so if you haven't seen anything regarding these characters and you don't want to get spoiled, please scroll/click away‼️‼️

So regarding this post from (basically) yesterday, I want to expand on this topic a little and compile some bits I've seen people use as proof that Rellana and Messmer were in love and why I think it was most likely unrequited love on Rellanas part. I want to actually visit each of these points separately.

I will provide a link to each item description as it relates to each point where available. If there is no link, then it is because the point is self evident, (her sword having his flame) or there was no link I could find (the room where her shield is found) (since edited). If you know any lore or extra bits that I've missed, please do let me know and provide a source.

So on to the points I have personally seen:

She abandoned everything to "chase after Messmer"

She was given a sword imbued with his flames

There is a room in the Shadow Keep that has blue fire (like seen in Caria Manor and other locations associated with the moon) where you find Rellanas shield EDIT: added images to the appropriate section

She came to be known as "Messmers Sword" and was extremely devoted to him, even though she knew "the moon brilliance of the moon could not grant him succor"

Okay, so, starting with the first point:

She abandoned everything to chase after Messmer

I genuinely believe that could range from anything between platonic and romantic. With Messmer specifically, we see many people who showed similar devotion to him by abandoning their homes and swearing their undying fealty to him. Without further context, there's really nothing I can see that can be used in either direction to make this any more concrete, so I'll just move on.

She was given a sword imbued with his flame

I think point 2 is undoubtedly the weakest, as the Fire Knights were given swords blessed with his flames as well. In fact, all of Messmers soldiers had weapons blessed with his flame, or used his incantations. We see this with even the most basic Messmer soldier in game, so this point in specific I find rather baseless.

A room modeled after Raya Lucaria

I assume the reasoning behind using this as proof that they are in love is that it would be assumed Messmer himself modeled this room after Rellanas home out of his affection for her or something similar, and while that could be true given Fromsofts love of environmental storytelling, I do think this is too shaky to use as actual concrete evidence. Keep in mind, it is in a storeroom in the keep, and if you look, on the many levels of each of the rooms, we see numerous books, tablets, and other items used for study or knowledge, and many of them are based in different cultures and factions in the setting of the world, so having an area that would contain information regarding Raya Lucaria and associated magic or glinstone sorcery as a whole doesn't feel far fetched to me. Conversely, Messmer is shown to be very benevolent and caring towards those in his charge, so it would also be reasonable to assume that he would allow for her to have that part of the storehouse be modeled in a way that invokes feelings of home for her. But I don't necessarily believe that has to be romantic. I have no specific points to make on the contents of the shield itself, but I will link her shields description for any who want to read it.

EDIT: it seems to be an armory specifically. There are no books, and there are only shields and lances. Sorry I couldn't get a photo with all of the furniture intact, the Fire Knight destroyed it all... That said, I'm not sure if this being an armory would change any context, really.

She came to be known "as Messmers Sword"

This, again, doesn't feel concrete to me, as far as proving anything happening between them. After all, not only were many of his soldiers incredibly devoted to him, but the Fire Knights in specific were the ones who knew him best, and each of them were the ones who answered directly to Messmer, as well as wielding weapons with his flame and his incantations in tandem. They were closest to him. And then there's Gaius, who was outright stated to be Messmers friend and the leader of his men. Lastly, I think being devoted to someone does not always imply romantic love, nor does the title of being their instrument of battle. Blade of Miquella is Malenias title, and I do not believe those two are romantically involved.

Some additional thoughts

I would honestly say that the most convincing piece of evidence to suggest that there were romantic feelings on Rellanas part comes from her sword, which reads: "here, and here alone, were moon and fire ever together." This, to me, is far better evidence that there were deeper feelings on her part than just devotion. However, it also clearly states how they were never together, which I feel is very much the most important part of all of this.

However, in general, while I do believe that all of the in-game lore suggests she may have had romantic feelings for him, I also think it could be as deep as pure devotion. We see it everywhere in this world, both in base game and the DLC. Malenia, Blaidd, Leda, Ansbach... Radahn and Leonard. (sorry) Devotion is seen in all corners of this setting. Messmer in particular seemed to inspire a great deal from many different places and in many people, so it's not entirely impossible that it would be the same for Rellana, though I do believe she has unrequited love for him.

Another thing to keep in mind is Messmers situation. He is cursed and was waging a cleansing war on untold numbers. He is slowly being eaten away at by a serpent that resides in his body, and that says nothing of the flame in him that he utterly despises. He also clearly has many issues where Marika is involved. All of this, coupled with the information that the Fire Knights were the only ones who truly knew and understood Messmer, it feels to me like romance would not only be something he was not concerned with, but also something he might not allow himself. I feel like he's far more worried about more important things.

In closing

At the end of the day, the nature of these games is that of vague droplets of information, even with the most important story beats. So unless there is something I've missed, I genuinely believe there is nothing in the game suggesting that they were in love with each other or that Messmer in any way returned her feelings, and in fact I think the game suggest the exact opposite: that Rellanas feelings were one sided. However, the only person who could say for certain is Miyazaki, and something tells me he wouldn't care to elaborate on this.

So until supplementary material is released that reveals new information or there is lore within the game that I have not seen or has not yet been found, I'd have to say I think it's relatively certain that they were not romantically involved, and that the feelings were very one sided, if any romantic feelings existed at all.

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