#I’m on episode 2 of the podcast season one…

[the-conversation-pod]

Let's Go, Lesbians! (A Japanese GL Episode)

And we're back! This week we're back with @ginnymoonbeam to talk about Toxic Yuri in Chaser Game W and Food Yuri in She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. Join us as we talk about pouring champagne on your ex's head, slapping your mean boss and her big ass red outfit into next week, choosing yourself over your cruel family, becoming the best gay you can be, and marshmallow parties.

Also, because we did not talk about it in the recording, we want to repost Rina Sawayama's Chosen Family song because this scene was so powerful in SLTCSLTE.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction 00:02:45 - Chaser Game W: A Flop 00:18:31 - She Loves To Cook, and She Loves To Eat 00:23:14 - SLTCSLTE: The Women 00:34:18 - SLTCSLTE: Yako and The New House 00:39:17 - SLTCSLTE: The Food and Nagumo 00:43:02 - SLTCSLTE: Depictions of Intimacy 00:50:53 - SLTCSLTE Ratings and Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Introduction

Ben

And we're back. This week, we're talking about lesbians, finally! And we brought a friend along.

NiNi

Say hi Ginny.

Ginny

Hello!

NiNi

Ginny is here with us and we are going to talk two Japanese GLs, Chaser Game W and She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat. 

Ben, what did you think, like, sort of overarching about these two before we delve into the nitty gritty?

Ben

I thought Chaser Game W gave us a lot to anticipate early on, and unfortunately went in the direction we did not want it to go. Ended up being kind of a mess toward the end? I did not end up walking away too happy with it. 

With She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat season 2, this time we had twenty 15-minute episodes and they had things to do and say with that time and I have a lot of things to say about that show. [laughs]

NiNi

Ginny, what are your overarching thoughts about these two shows?

Ginny

I had high hopes for Chaser Game W because I always want more toxic lesbians. [NiNi laughs] I want to see the girls get to be messy, I want to see complicated dynamics. And I did really enjoy the first couple episodes, but it kind of felt like the characterizations really fell apart as the series progressed, which was a big disappointment. 

She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat was a delight. Every time I sat down to watch it, my heart was full and happy and warm.

00:02:45 - Chaser Game W: A Flop

NiNi

We always go from worst to first on this show, so let's start with Chaser Game W. 

Ben, what is Chaser Game W about?

Ben

Chaser Game W is about a team of women at a game development studio in Japan who have been contracted to develop basically a demo for a GL adaptation, by a Chinese company named Vincent. It gets complicated by their project manager from the Chinese team, who clearly has beef with one of their team members and just spends most of the early show fucking with her because she's mad that they broke up in college. And then a bunch of other shit happens that is kind of weird.

NiNi

Okay, that's a hell of a description [laughs].

Ben

I'm sorry! Like, it starts off being a show that looks like it's playing into the complex dynamics about workplace power and possibly sexual harassment, and then kind of loses its way because it wants to be this mess of a story about lesbians with families and the difficult choices they have to make, and where do the husbands and children fit in this, and how does this play into career expectations? Bosses who might also be queer but evil queers?

And it's not necessarily a very coherent experience. There's a lot of ideas that sound good when you describe them to people, but in practice really weren't that satisfying to watch. This was not the Japanese GL experience I was hoping for.

NiNi

Ginny, what about you? What are your thoughts on Chaser Game W?

Ginny

It did seem like it was setting up to have some messages about not only the sexuality components, but also things about women in the workplace and being a mother and balancing those expectations… dealing with sexual harassment… all of that. But it didn't end up saying much that was meaningful to me about it, it just was like, ‘these are issues!’ If you try to draw any kind of conclusion from what the show is doing, you end up with some really messy messages. 

The way that the evil queer boss came in was so funny to me. One of the selling points of this show is this strong femdom, woman in power exacting humiliation dynamic. But halfway through the show, we're resolving the relationship between the two women, so Fuyu, our previous femdom power boss, is not going to be that anymore. So we have to bring in a new one — and it just did not work for me.

NiNi

It was the dom getting dommed. It was like an inception of domming. It was a little strange. There were definitely some Chinese-Japanese dynamics in there. I don't have the cultural competency to pick up on entirely what they were doing, but it was pretty clear from the way that the show was operating. I don't know if it's stereotype, but it was clear that there was something going on there; my cultural competency in this area is not enough to figure out exactly what was going on there.

Ben

It was kind of weird seeing a Japanese show complaining about unrealistic expectations of Chinese developers? This is not a uniquely Chinese problem.

NiNi

I feel like it being set in gaming almost didn't matter to that side of things? They wanted to have this difference the show sees in working cultures be stark and to say something about that difference. But the supposed center of this, aside from the game and the development of the game, is a relationship between Fuyu and Itsuki. It's an extremely convoluted central story that just seems to serve as an excuse for why Fuyu, when she comes back to Japan, hates Itsuki so much. 

The writing feels slightly unnecessarily complicated, but I actually rather enjoyed quite a lot of bits of this. I enjoyed, for example, the direction. I thought the camera was very assured, I thought it was very clear. I don't know if this is an original story or if it's coming from manga, but the direction is very very clear to me. I really enjoyed watching the camera move. The shots are really effective. But the story itself? It's not like I thought necessarily that… the story was badly told? I'm just not sure that it was the story that I wanted. Where we're going in the beginning with Fuyu, a mean lesbian comes back and is mean to her ex-girlfriend, I felt like, okay, that's where we're going. And then, suddenly, Fuyu is married and Fuyu has a daughter and there's all this stuff around the husband and Fuyu’s feelings, or not-feelings, about the husband. It got a little muddy. 

But even with all of that, I think I probably enjoyed it more than you guys did. And I think part of the reason is that I binged it? So I didn't sit with a lot of these feelings or a lot of the confusion for very long.

Ben

It was not a fun week to week watch. As it started to deviate and get lost in itself, it was not fun to be like, 'oh right, this is where we were, all right, let's go and see how this week goes. Ohh… no. Okay.' 

You asked about whether it's original or an adaptation. It is an adaptation. The original work is about power harassment, but I believe Itsuki’s character is a man? A lot about the show made sense once we realized that it was not an original queer story being adapted. A lot of it felt really tacked on to justify the drama and not really something that the writing really contextualized or dwelled on, at all.

Ginny

There were a lot of big character turns and big decisions made without a lot of grounding in why this character would make this choice. Once the mystery of their past is explained, you do understand why they reconcile suddenly, but then all of their choices afterwards just felt baffling to me. I'm not getting any kind of character journey. The show is like, well, this happens now, and then this happens now, and then they do this thing that you didn't expect. And I want to know why!

NiNi

I… feel like in some bits I was cottoning onto it, and then in some bits I was not. For example, when Itsuki starts to take care of Fuyu’s daughter, when she comes over and realizes that the husband's left and her daughter needs taking care of. I followed that bit of the character journey. I understood in some ways why, when the husband came back, Fuyu felt maybe guilty? 

There was also, like, a little thing which I was really surprised didn't go anywhere. Early in the show the husband was video chatting with, I think his mother. And she says something like, 'you know, you have to be good to Fuyu. You're so lacking, and she is with you anyway.' that made me think that their marriage was lavender? I genuinely thought that they had some kind of arrangement or agreement — and then to find out later down the line that the husband actually was in love with her and was jealous of the thing that she had with Itsuki? That came out of nowhere for me. And then everything that followed on from there kind of didn't track, almost. 

Did either of you get that feeling initially from the husband and were surprised or was that just me?

Ginny

My sense was that the husband had been perceived as not a good marriage prospect. Probably it was not earning a lot of money and had other loserish qualities or something. So my sense from the conversation was that that was what she was talking about. I certainly didn't ever get the sense that he was in love with her, exactly? Even when he's upset, it felt more to me kind of about pride. You can't have your wife sleeping around. That's an embarrassment. I don't think there were any deep feelings in that marriage.

NiNi

I don't even think either of them really had extremely deep feelings for their daughter. Like I think Fuyu loves her daughter, but in a distracted kind of way, almost? The only depth of feeling that I felt anywhere was between Fuyu and Itsuki, and even that was tied up in all this anger and bitterness and guilt and whatever else. That's a direction to go in for sure, but it really didn't make me understand why they wanted to be together, and then why they decided not to be together… and then in the end, why Fuyu comes back out of nowhere. 

It's all muddled and mixed for me, especially the closer that we get to the end. But like I said, I don't think that I had as bad a time with it as other people might have.

Ben

I had a very bad time. [Ben and NiNi laugh] 

This show was aggravating. We've been talking about this a lot on the show lately about how much work we think we should do for a show to like, meet them emotionally, where they're trying to take us. There are times when either the writing or the performance doesn't necessarily get you all the way there? And you kind of have to just feel it for the show. But this show just does not feel complete. There are a bunch of ideas that are fine on their own, like, ‘and then she comes in here and then she pours a fucking champagne on her head.’ That's an unhinged lesbian behavior that I have seen happen in person! So like, I totally believed that.

NiNi

Oh yeah.

Ben

But then Fuyu’s turn where she’s suddenly nice to other women in the company that they're in and stops being a huge dick to the other moms, that just doesn't really track? Like, what changed in that moment? I don't really know how we went there. They had her suddenly start being nice to them so they could be on the same team against Big Red.

NiNi

I'm so mad that you called her Big Red, but it kinda works. [Ben and NiNi laugh] I'm not gonna call her anything except Big Red now.

Ben

I did not remember what her character name was. Her name was Big Red.

Ginny

That's her name now, yep [laughs].

Ben

Like it was funny when Itsuki was like, 'Fuck off, Big Red' and knocked her ass down. [all laugh]

All these moments are like, well, that was amusing on its own, but it doesn't really come together as a coherent story unto itself. There’s this huge branching point later on where it's basically the supporting cast trying to seduce a guy to give them information to save the game, and that's happening separately from the drama with Itsuki, Fuyu, Fuyu’s husband, Big Red and all the drama going on there. 

NiNi 

I want to talk a little bit about the actual game development plot, because that stuff was wild. They're preparing whatever they have to do to develop this game, and along the way they're going through literal sexual harassment. There's a point in time that they're trying to get information from this artist. And this guy is a caricature of a sexual harasser, like at one point there are five of these female game developers in his house, and they're literally peeling this guy off of each other as he gropes them. And I'm just like, is this normal or is this exaggerated? I don't even know?

Ben 

Actually, it felt like most of that was actually normal. 

NiNi 

That is terrifying. 

Ben 

The drama with the team felt pretty straightforward for me. You had women in the team having varied responses to the sexual harassment. One of them was like, 'I will absolutely not compromise myself and use sex to get ahead' and another one was like, 'I will, I got this for us.' [Ben and NiNi laugh] I thought that was fine. I didn't mind there being a character who is willing to use men's desire to advance her goals and her team’s goals. I liked that it wasn't required only for her to do that, that there were other people who didn't want to do it that way accomplishing things for their team. The up and down of, ‘is this game going to get developed or not, the expectations of our client keep changing, it seems to be for reasons well beyond us and other drama’ — that felt fairly normal for trying to get any sort of major creative endeavor with the expensive team off the ground. Most of the game development stuff tracked normally for me. Even the whole plot line about poaching talent and then dumping talent: that is a real problem right now. That sort of stuff mostly tracked for me. I wasn't that fussed about the game development stuff and the workplace conditions that they were working under. 

It was the stuff about Fuyu and Itsuki's relationship and the motivations around them romantically, and other characters’ reactions to it, that is where I struggled the most with this. It wasn't a show that left you in a cool place at the end of an episode and picked up in a great place with the next episode. Spending two months watching this was not a great experience. 

NiNi 

I think my rating’s definitely going to be higher than you guys, so I'll go first. 

Ben 

Okay. 

NiNi 

I'm gonna say 7. To me, bits are cool and I can follow generally where this is going, and the bits that I thought were weird were not offensive. It wasn’t very good, but it wasn't terrible. 

Ben 

Ginny? 

Ginny 

I gave it a 5.5. 6 is my mad-I-watched-it threshold. Anything 6 or higher might be very bad, but I'm not mad I watched it. Below a 6 I'm kind of mad that I watched it. That's where this one landed for me. 

Fuyu was very beautiful, and I did enjoy watching her every week. But when that's the nicest thing I have to say about a show, it's not good. 

Ben 

It gave this a 4. It is not recommended. I don't think this is a good lesbian story. I don't think this is a good game development story. I don't think it's a good workplace story. It is a mess. This was developed by the same person who made His the movie, so I am very confused how we ended up with something that absolutely failed on the queer front like this. I do not get it. When this show was confused, it lands on the wrong side of the coin a lot. And it felt like at the very last five minutes they were doing a shit ton of clean up. I don't think this show is worthwhile. 

NiNi 

That's gonna land us somewhere in the 5ish range overall?

Ben 

Round it down, because it sucks! [all laugh] It gets a 5 from The Conversation. 

NiNi 

So that is officially a chop. 

00:18:31 - She Loves To Cook, and She Loves To Eat

NiNi 

All right. So we're gonna leave that behind and we're going to move on to She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. 

Ben, give us the synopsis. What is She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat about?

Ben 

Okay, let me be much nicer now because this is one of my favorite shows now. So, [laughs] She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat is like the lesbian neighbor of What Did You Eat Yesterday? We have a young woman who's a programmer. She feels like she's like late 20s, early 30s. Her name is Nomoto. She runs like a food account on Instagram, and whenever she's in a bad mood and needs to work through some stuff, she ends up making too much food, and she has a small appetite, so it goes to waste. She has a neighbor who is a taller, bigger woman, and on a whim one night she invites her over to share food with her. And this is the beginning of their friendship that eventually becomes a more serious relationship.

Second season picks up with twice as many episodes, and boy did they need them. We spend this season with Nomoto and Kasuga befriending their new, younger woman neighbor. Nomoto becomes a full-time employee at her work and develops a more reliable friendship with Sayama. She also befriends her Twitter friend Yako, who is basically one of us. She loves her stories, she loves her little food, and she loves hearing about other people's drama and poking them to get their shit together. I love her so much. 

It was a really delightful season watching these two grow closer, figure out what their relationship was going to be, and develop that into more as they dealt with some of their real personal and professional issues. I really, truly loved the season. 

Ginny, you were fairly recent to watching this, so you watched the first and second season basically as one dedicated viewing experience. What was your experience engaging with this for the first time in the last month or so? 

Ginny 

It was very fun. I did this as my unwinding as I was moving in with my girlfriend who is the loves to eat in our relationship, where I'm the loves to cook. So it was a lovely experience. The two seasons flow so seamlessly into each other. Season 2 picks up right where season 1 left off so I'm kind of glad I did it this way. I think I might have been a little frustrated at the end of season 1, especially having to wait and not knowing if we'd get more, because they don't entirely confirm their relationship by the end of that? It's understood that they're very important to each other and they have this very meaningful place in each other's lives, celebrating holidays together, but they don't even start to have conversations about what their relationship is until we're a little ways into season 2. So I'm glad that I got to watch it all unfold as a single story. 

So many details of, just the way that that develops between them felt so realistic to journeys that I've seen between two women who are close friends and realize that they might have romantic feelings for each other. All of the angsting you do about that, and the 'what does this mean' and the 'what does it even mean to love someone romantically instead of as just this very special, most importantest friend in the world,' — just so many little details were perfectly done and extremely relatable. It was just gorgeous. 

Ben 

NiNi, since you watched the first season and angsted with the rest of us about whether or not it was going to come back, and whether or not that second season was gonna be good, what were your overall impressions of the second season after you walked away from it? 

NiNi 

I loved it, but I knew I was going to love it. I had some angst in the middle of the season that we're probably gonna get to, not bad angst. Just, ‘oh, I wonder if they're doing this thing that I think that they're doing.’ But I thoroughly enjoyed it. 

I love so much how the show expands in this season. The first season is very tightly focused, mostly on Nomoto and Kasuga, whereas this season expands outward to show you some of the other people in their life and show you them developing their relationships with these other people, some new, some not. I always love stories that show you the life that these people are living. So I thoroughly enjoyed this season, had a great time with it. 

00:23:14 - SLTCSLTE: The Women

Ben

There were a lot of presentations of various women's issues that played out this season. Do the two of you have particular storylines that you especially enjoyed, or connected to?

Ginny

I love Nagumo's story. I think the one I connected to most was probably Kasuga, but I thought bringing in Nagumo as someone who could receive some mentorship from these two women and also [laughs] kind of help coach Kasuga through her feelings revelation, and relationship transition… it was a beautiful relationship and a wonderful addition, and the way that her character brings a different perspective on the whole nature of food and communal eating was also just a gorgeous touch.

Ben

What about you, NiNi? Did you have a particular plot line that you enjoyed or connected to?

NiNi

We got some stuff on the fringes about Sayama trying to date and looking to potentially get married, realizing and talking to Nomoto that she can't get married if she wants to, and then that leading Sayama to think about whether she even wants to get married. That resonated in a particular kind of way. It was a quiet little side runner, it didn't take up a lot of space in the story, but it did hit me. We end the season without really an answer from Sayama on that, but the fact that she started thinking about it? That resonated with me, for sure.

Ben

What I love about Sayama as a straight character in this narrative is: queer people don't fit the heterosexual mold, and loving queer people forces you to reckon with why we don't. And then that can often open up things for you, as well. I really loved her apology scene with Nomoto. Recognizing that her working through her own ambivalence about marriage is dismissive of the fact that it's not even an option available for Nomoto.

Ginny

You also have Kasuga's coworker, who's older and is getting a divorce after her children have grown up. Getting a divorce is extremely liberating for her. It really does show this kind of 360 view of heterosexual marriage not necessarily being right for all heterosexual women.

Ben

I think it's notable that when they show multiple older women working at this grocery store, they're all like, 'mm-mm, divorce was the right call for me, because I don't think it's right that I'm expected to take care of my husband's family and everybody else does nothing, and that's gonna be my entire existence.' And I love how explicit she was, she told Kasuga straight up: if you were my own daughter, who I do have, I would tell her the same thing, and I would say please live your life. Do not sacrifice your life for a bunch of other people who do not appreciate what you want for your life. Because Kasuga decided to sever ties with her family, because they did not respect her and they wanted her to just take care of them, and sacrifice anything she wanted for her life. It was really lovely that the show went out of its way to be explicit about that.

NiNi

Since we're already sort of diving into it, let's lean into that storyline. Kasuga left home a long time ago and decided to live her life. Kasuga has a brother who is the favored child, but Kasuga’s brother does nothing. Now Kasuga's parents are older and ill, and her grandparents are older and ill and need taking care of. And so Kasuga's dad has started looking for her now. He's like, 'Well, you're not married, whatever you're doing isn't important, you gotta come home and take care of everybody.' It only comes to her doorstep because her aunt gives her father both her number and address, because 'oh, you’re a family, you shouldn’t not talk to each other.' Her aunt thinks she's doing the right thing, but this is definitely not the right thing for Kasuga. Kasuga's father has never appreciated her as a person, has never cared about her as a person, has only focused on his son. And now he wants Kasuga to take care of him essentially until he dies. Kasuga really struggles with this. She wonders, is this my responsibility? Is this something that I have to do? Is she a bad daughter if she doesn't do this? What does this mean for her? Fujita tells her, 'Look, if you were my daughter, I would tell you do not go. You don't have a responsibility to give up your life for somebody else.'

All the conversations that Kasuga has with her father, she has them in her car. She does not talk to him when she is in her house, her safe space? She does not speak to her father in there. When she has decided that she's not going home, not just not going home, but never going home again, she sits in the car and has the conversation where she tells him, 'I'm not ever coming home. Don't contact me again.' And then she goes from the car straight to Nomoto. And Nomoto gets so furious on her behalf that she starts to cry. She's like, 'I can't believe that this man made you feel this way about yourself. He's a horrible person.' Basically, everything that Kasuga needed to hear, she got from Nomoto in that moment. 

I am an eldest daughter. I have a fantastic relationship with my family. And any caregiving I do is of my own volition, and I am happy to do it. It is still tiring. It is still exhausting. Even when it is received with gratitude and happiness and love, it is hard to do. If you have to take care of people who don't care about you? You can feel like you're dying. I am certain about it. That expectation being placed on you is hard enough. To do it for people [who] do not love you — because I do not think Kasuga’s father loves her — is impossible. And so I had a lot of feelings about it while it was happening, but watching her say, 'No, I am not going to just let go of my entire life and everything that I want for this person.' 

And then to have Fujita tell her, 'if you were my daughter,' which releases her from that burden of thinking about her mother — because that's the other part of the guilt that she's feeling. Not necessarily guilt towards her father, but the fact that if she doesn't come home, her mother's gonna have to do all of this. And she thinks about her mother all the time. It's just, it's so much. It's so deep. It's so intense. It's so delicious. And it's not what you expect to get out of a story that's told in little 15-minute episodes! It really isn't.

Ginny

I'm also an eldest daughter and feel so much of that. I spent my childhood, really, like Kasuga, very aware that there were a lot of things I was expected to give up. The way that that sinks into your brain… you just feel like, 'I am worth what I can do for people.' 

What struck me the most in that conversation with Nomoto when Kasuga first tells her what she's done, is Nomoto begs her to keep living her life here where she's thriving, and to keep being happy. Through their whole relationship, Nomoto has taken such joy in Kasuga’s love of eating and just celebrated that this gives you pleasure and you're taking pleasure, and that's a wonderful thing. And in this moment, she kind of expands it to Kasuga's whole life. And she says, please don't ever go somewhere where you can't thrive, where you can't feel joy, where you can't feel loved, and yourself. To hear someone say that? I think I did cry in that scene. You need to hear someone say that. Someone who grew up like Kasuga needs someone who loves you begging you to take care of yourself and to do what brings you joy. The heart of their relationship and what draws them together is how deeply Nomoto celebrates Kasuga taking care of herself and being taken care of and experiencing pleasure. It's beautiful.

Ben

I really enjoyed the way that continued in the whole strawberry debacle.

NiNi

[laughs] The strawberry thing. It was so funny. [Ginny laughs] It was so cute, too. It was really cute. This is after they've started dating, but their relationship hasn't changed very much. And so she asked Nagumo, is there something that she should be doing? Which I found adorable.

Ginny

It's so real.

Ben

It's funny, too, because Nagumo admits she doesn't have much experience either [Ginny laughs], and is like, 'You could, like, go do things you both like doing? Together? That sounds right.' [all laugh]

NiNi

It’s so funny. And that's when she sees this flyer for the strawberry picking. And she's like, 'Oh, okay, I like strawberry picking. I should ask Nomoto to go strawberry picking with me. That's like the kind of thing that people do when they're in relationships, right?'

Ben

'That's, like, a food thing. She likes to make food. This might be fun!' Kasuga doesn't really say what she wants to do, she just hands it to Nomoto and is like, 'Hey, I thought this might be fun for us to do' and Nomoto’s like, 'Oh, yeah, that sounds great. We can maybe go vegetable picking and then make some stuff afterwards.' And Kasuga doesn't really speak up about what she maybe wanted. 

Late in the day Nomoto realizes Kasuga maybe wanted to go check out a restaurant in the area, and wanted to maybe do strawberry picking instead. And Nomoto ends up feeling so bad about this, feeling like she was not really receptive to what Kasuga actually wanted, and like she was steamrolling her. This plays out across almost two or three episodes, but the culmination is Nomoto saying very clearly to Kasuga, 'I want you to be selfish with me. I want you to feel like you can want things and express them. It's really important to me that you are doing the things you enjoy.'

Ginny

And Kasuga admits that that's hard for her. Another moment that rang so true for me, for both of them.

Ben

So much of their relationship is Nomoto getting intense pleasure [laughs] out of watching Kasuga enjoy herself.

00:34:18 - SLTCSLTE: Yako and The New House

Ben

I'd like to talk about my favorite character of the season.

NiNi

Ben wants to talk about Yako. Let's go.

Ben

Yako is the best thing that has happened to BL and GL in the last two years. [laughs]

NiNi

She's really just like us. [laughs]

Ben

No character’s been a better audience stand in than an asexual lesbian enjoying her wine and her takeout, watching gay movies with other girls, and then hearing about their relationship drama and giving completely reasonable advice by just asking questions.

Ginny

Best life.

Ben

I love her so much. She is everything that I am trying to be every day. [NiNi laughs] And she's good at it! [laughs] She never tells anybody, 'Just do it.' She's just like, 'What are you feeling? How do you feel if you don't do it? Well, there you go.’

And then they have the curry party? That looked like so much fun. They all go over to Yako's house and meet her properly. Nomoto and Kasuga take Nagumo with them. And they make a bunch of different curry, and naan, and some fancy juice, and they have themselves a good-ass time. And this leads to Yako becoming friends with Nagumo, and she ends up becoming a confidante to Nagumo as well. She recognizes after the girls reveal they're gonna move out that somebody should check on Nagumo, who has probably gotten used to having two really reliable neighbors who care about her, and how Nagumo might be anxious about saying, like, she misses them and still wants to see them. Even as Nagumo admits, moving out is the right call for them, I love that Yako gave Nagumo space to admit that she was a bit bummed that she was gonna not be living next to two solid friends anymore. 

I love Yako so much. She is in competition for blorbo of the year.

NiNi

Yako has the best ideas for parties, too, like the first time she had the watch party with Nomoto, they've both got snacks and drinks, and they're talking about what they've got for their snacks and their drinks and then they watch a lesbian movie and they cry. [Ben and Ginny laugh] It’s so good. Literally, Yako is really just like us. 

The only thing I'm sad about in this entire season is that Sayama hasn't yet become a part of this whole little group that they have, but she will. I know she will.

Ben

They just moved in together. They got a big space. There's room for Fujita and Sayama to show up for another party they're gonna have. These two could host all six major female characters at their new place. 

Let's talk about the new place while we're here. Where…?

[all laugh]

NiNi

Go ahead. I know you want to.

Ben

I love Kasuga. I love everything about her. I love her big chair, I love her big bed, I love her big TV. I need to know where these things are going to go in the new space. [NiNi laughs] Nomoto is totally fine to just use her iPad as her fill-in device for all of her tech needs and entertainment needs. I understand Kasuga. When I moved out, I got myself two big-ass TVs! I need to know where this goes in their new space.

NiNi

[laughs] Doing it real big, right?

Ben

Mhmm! Her car real big. Shoes real big. TV real big. Everything real big.

NiNi

We can talk a little bit about the new space. It looks really good. I like the way that it feels like both of them, which is exactly what you want in a place where you’re gonna be moving in together. But can we just talk about how U-Haul lesbian it is of them to get together and immediately start talking about moving in together?

Ginny

Hang on, they started talking about moving in together [Ben laughs] and then got together. That was the order! [NiNi laughs] They were like—

NiNi

That is true, that is fair.

Ginny

—'I’m gonna move.' 

'Oh my God. I can't bear the thought of you leaving, but I understand why you have to.' 

'Well, it's okay ‘cause I was going to ask if you wanted to move in. Also, are we in love with each other?'

Like, that was the conversation. [NiNi laughs]

Ben

'And we finally picked a place to live. Do you wanna make out for the first time?' 

NiNi

[laughs] And the other good part of it is that before any of this, they somehow adopted a child together.

Ben

Right?

Ginny

Yeah! This all tracks. This is all very typical. 

NiNi

Mmhmm. This felt like the correct order of things for lesbians.

00:39:17 - SLTCSLTE: The Food and Nagumo

NiNi

Okay, we need to talk about food.

Ben

Okay.

NiNi

Because Ben started talking about the curry party and I got excited.

Ben

I got hungry, I need to go make food after this. [Ben and Ginny laugh]

NiNi

We didn't even talk yet about the takoyaki party. I am not a huge fan of takoyaki, but that looked really good.

Ben

All right, as we go into the food, let's talk about Nagumo's eating disorder, because I think that this is one of my favorite food plots in a food show in a long time.

NiNi

One of the things about these food shows is that it's about the communal experience of food. Nagumo has a social anxiety disorder where she can't eat in front of other people. The way that this is brought to the surface, and then the way that Kasuga and Nomoto figure out how to include her in the communal experience without trying to force her to eat or making it an anxious space for her where other people are eating… There's something about Kasuga that just reads incredibly reliable from the off. So when Nagumo first meets Kasuga, she very quickly gets very comfortable and feels like she can tell this woman anything. And Kasuga is just so forthright and so understanding about things, that when Nagumo tells her, you know, 'I really can't eat in front of other people,' the first thing she asks her is 'oh, well, can you drink something? Can I make you a cup of tea?' And that sort of becomes a jumping off point for the way that they interact when they're having these communal experiences around food, and the way that Kasuga explains to other people for Nagumo, but without giving too many details of Nagumo's private business. The way that these women make a comfortable space for her to still have the community of meals together without forcing her to eat, drives Nagumo to say, 'I want to go and get myself treated because I want to be able to eat with these women, because I care about them.'

Ben

I really love the arc of that. In a show about two people bonding over food, they met somebody who they couldn't necessarily do that with right away, they had to work into it. And I love the way that they slowly built that out — like the donut party was so satisfying.

NiNi

Donut party was fantastic.

Ben

There’s the donut party. There's the marshmallow party.

NiNi

Don't get me started on Nomoto and her, like, zoning out thinking about Kasuga with these marshmallows. [laughs] It was almost erotic but not in a male gaze erotic kind of way. She's got a comically large number of bags of marshmallows in Nomoto’s mind that she's hugging to her, and then she starts eating the marshmallows with a smile on her face. [laughs] All this is happening in Nomoto’s imagination and I'm just like, 'Yes, girl. Yeah, I understand what is happening to you right now.' [laughs] She's zoning out thinking about Kasuga and these marshmallows and I am cracking up. I'm having a whale of a—Oh, it's so good. 

Okay. I'm gonna get over Kasuga and marshmallows, but [laughs] not immediately. So good, so funny. No notes.

00:43:02 - SLTCSLTE: Depictions of Intimacy

Ben

You had a little bit of hesitation in the middle of the second season. Do you want to talk about that on the show? And do you feel resolved by the way they played it out?

NiNi

Not resolved, but more… comforted, I guess. Part of the agita, I think that I was having, is that I was working through myself. Yako and Nomoto are watching these lesbian films. Yako is introducing Nomoto to these lesbian movies, and they're watching them together. And Nomoto is saying she's watching these movies and all these women are so passionate, and she knows that she likes Kasuga in a romantic way, but she doesn't think that she has these passionate feelings like these women in these films. That's when Yako tells her, 'Well, you know, I'm asexual, this is how I feel about these things.' 

And in the middle of the season when this is happening, I had a bit of a moment where I'm just like, okay, is it that they're doing this purity thing where it's fine to be a lesbian if you don't have sex or sexual feelings? It was something that I was worried about. I think it was a little bit of burden of representation stuff that I was maybe putting on the show? That I felt like it was important to show female sexuality as being good and okay and fine, and not to wrap female sexuality and women loving women up in this thing of it being somehow chaste and pure. That was something that was coming from my own thoughts about it. There's not a lot of ace spectrum rep out there in terms of media and dramas in this field, so intellectually I felt like, oh, well, this is fine. But emotionally, I was having a hard time with. Intellectually, I'm like, okay, yes, if it is that this is an ace lesbian story, this is fine because there's not a lot of representation of that, either. But then I was also, like, feeling that even if it was ace lesbian representation, it was being done in this weird binary where you're either sexual or you're not, when acespec is just a whole spectrum of things. I was getting tied up in my own feelings about a lot of this, and it was giving me a little bit of grief and a little bit of gripe. 

But when we come down through the season and come down towards the end of the season, it starts to feel more like a journey of discovery, of Nomoto figuring out what labels that she would apply to herself that make her feel comfortable with the relationship, and understanding how she feels about Kasuga and in what ways they want to proceed with their relationship and the things that they want to try or not try, and having those conversations with Kasuga, as well. And that eased me in the way that I was feeling about it. I fully admit that I got tied up in my own feelings about this, because it didn't have anything to do with what the show was doing. It works out well. I feel comfortable and comforted by the way that the story goes down through to the end. I'm good with where they've decided to take Nomoto, and Nomoto and Kasuga’s relationship, and where they have hopefully paused, not stopped.

Ginny

I understand that feeling completely. I feel some kind of meta regret that the two lesbian shows we’re talking about, the horny kinky concept one was bad, and the very chaste, ace spectrum one was good. I would love more horny kinky concept lesbians that are also actually well done. But as you said, that's not a problem with this show as it is just sort of with the bigger media landscape, and the show is giving also voice to really important, very representative experiences. 

I love where they land on the question of physical intimacy, because I was wondering what they were going to do having gotten so far into the season. They hardly ever touch each other. There is this sensuality in their relationship around food, and I don't think it functions as a metaphor or a substitute for sex — it's just a different kind and source of pleasure that is important to their relationship, and that's so cool and I love it! But I love where they end up on the question of touch. Kasuga saying, 'yes, I would like to try things out one by one with you.' That's such a lovely way to say, we don't know where this ends. We don't know how we're going to feel about it, but we trust each other enough and we want to explore together at whatever pace feels right for both of us.

Ben

I am less concerned, I think, with certain styles of Japanese shows delving into onscreen depictions of sex and sexuality because of the space those shows fill. Zenra Meshi, What Did You Eat Yesterday?, and this show. The ton of sensuality in the food stuff supports the thinking around sex and intimacy, and I'm really glad they had the hug and kiss scene to make sure that we didn't skip that? But I don't necessarily need to see it in the show, in the sense that I'm okay with just confirming that it's gonna happen, or it is happening. What I do need NHK and TV Tokyo to figure out is: how does the cast of this show meet the cast of What Did You Eat Yesterday? There has to be a way to get these two stories a crossover.

NiNi

It does feel like there needs to be a crossover between these two stories. The new place that they've moved into, I'm pretty sure it's in Shiro and Kenji's building, like it has to be. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me in my head. [laughs]

What you were saying about seeing it on screen, it's not necessarily that I need to see their physical intimacy on screen, or whether there is physical intimacy on screen. I just need to understand, I think, if it was something that they were even gonna talk about or discuss, or if it was something that they wanted or not wanted. I think that it's fine for me for them to have the conversation and say, 'Okay, let's figure this out.' And if that lands upon them not being physically intimate that's fine, if it lands up on them being physically intimate, that's fine, but I think what I was worried about, and maybe I shouldn't have been, was that they were not going to talk about it at all.

Ben

I'm very glad that they had a conversation about it before they moved out, and established that it is something that they want, even if it's something they're gonna have to figure it out.

NiNi

Most definitely, but let's move back to the part where they're moving into Shiro and Kenji's building, because I feel like somehow that has to happen. And I feel like somebody needs to slip Nishijima and Uchino a note that says, 'Hey. Y'all are good at making stuff happen. Make this happen, too. Find a way.'

Ben

It's just difficult because it's an NHK adaptation versus TV Tokyo and I don't know how that plays out because one is a for-profit broadcaster and the other is explicitly a public entity.

NiNi

Figure it out. [Ben and NiNi laugh] I don't care if it's a movie, I don't care if it's a special, I don't care what it is. They need to figure this out, because there's no way that these two shows are not existing in the same universe. They have to.

00:50:53 - SLTCSLTE Ratings and Outro

Ben

I think that's it. This show is excellent. I guess we should rate it. Let's go around. 

Ginny, you're newest to this. What's your rating for this?

Ginny

I gave season one a 9 and season two a 10. Season one felt a little incomplete to me, but season two sewed it up. If I was rating them together, I would give them a 10 as a single experience.

Ben

What about you, NiNi?

NiNi

Why you even asking me? You know my answer. This is a 10.

Ben

It's a 10! 10s across the board. Go watch it right now and then when you're finished, go show it to a friend, and then make them show it to a friend. I'm not even kidding. This is excellent. This is going to have to get a new supercut for me on the show. I’m gonna have to mention this every goddamn recording we do after this. [Ginny and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

It's a good thing Ginny's here because now she goes, she's like, okay, so I'm looking for What Did You Eat Yesterday? and then She Loves to Cook, She Loves to Eat.

Ginny

Making notes.

Ben

It was really just so lovely. One of the things I really enjoy in my queer stories is realistic and believable-feeling friend groups around them. It's really important for me, not just that I believe in the integrity of the couple, but also the integrity of their network. And I really like when queer friend groups grow as a result of two other people finding something in each other, that was really important for me. And it's why this particular show is so special to me. I really love this show, so much. Please go watch it.

NiNi

And with that, that's all she wrote. That is going to wrap us up, say bye to the people. 

Say bye Ginny!

Ginny

Bye!

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.

[punk-possum333]

I’ve been getting into the Magnus archives… and I decided I wanted to draw one of the characters- so here’s Michael! This isn’t usually what I post but I didn’t really know where else to put it

(I have just found out I gave him bones when I shouldn’t have- I might take these down out of sheer distrotness and self-consciousness)

[headofocs-inklesspen]

Time for my favorite part of my day. Listening to old Magnus Archives episodes for ~2 hours

[carigm]

A BREAKDOWN OF THE POTENTIAL S5 EPISODE TITLES!!

Okay, so today entertainment journalist Jeff Sneider shared some alleged insider info about S5 of ST, mainly directors and titles of the first 6 episodes.

Here’s a screenshot

It’s important to keep in mind that this guy isn’t always the most reliable, and considering he also said he believes S5 could come out before the end of this year, let’s not take any of this too seriously. (Many cast members have mentioned they’re filming until December of this year so that’s literally impossible). The information about the possible directors I believe is correct, because it’s been circulating around from other sources too.

The episode titles I’m less convinced about because it’s also possible the Duffers could’ve put out fake episode titles in case they leaked. I remember for S2 all the episodes titles they announced were changed later on lol. But for the sake of fun, here’s an analysis of all of them:

1. The crawl (only confirmed title) is a very broad, open title. It personally makes me think of the UD and vines, or maybe even the idea of Vecna crawling back to life. Could also be an allusion to the military.

2. The Vanishing of ___ Wheeler is arguably the most insane one. The journalist said he wasn’t revealing the actual name of the person because it’s a spoiler ofc. My gut tells me it’s gonna be Holly, mainly because of the recast and her supposedly being involved in the hospital plot, which we have guessed takes place in episode 2. Could explain why she’s suddenly “more important” this season, especially if she’s used as a plot device of sorts. Could also tie into what Ted’s actor said in a podcast back in February about the first episodes being a rollercoaster of emotions, and that comment he made about Ted having a soft spot for Holly. It would be a perfect tie in for Karen to find out about the UD as well. The implications of naming the episode the same as the first episode, which is so intrinsically tied to Will, is very interesting. It’s also a new connection/tie between the Byers/Wheelers that I assume will bring the families closer together. I don’t think it’s about Mike because I doubt he’ll go missing in ep.2, or be dragged to the UD just like Will was. It would be an interesting concept but I doubt it. I also don’t think Nancy’s gonna go missing. Karen could be interesting but I doubt it as well. Ted would be an incredibly funny choice. Imagine he just goes missing while at the house 😭 Nonetheless, I think Holly is the clear choice here, and I do very much worry for her if she goes missing. Mainly because while Will survived this, I’m not sure they’ll do the same for Holly :(

It also ties into Vecna’s threat to Nancy against her and her family.

Here’s an interesting leak from the same anon that leaked the hospital stuff (which seems to be correct)

I think this could be the very same scene Holly goes missing.

3. Turbow Trap 😭 This one is utter nonsense. I have no idea what a Turbow is, so I assume it’s gonna be a code or nickname for something. Absolutely clueless here.

4. Sorcerer is incredibly interesting, and imo a clear allusion to Will. His D&D character being a cleric, basically a wizard. Could also be a reference to Vecna imo. Or both 😉

5. Shock Jock is clearly tied to the radio station plotline. Imo the title could be a reference to Steve, Jonathan, or even Murray (he fits that eccentric, somewhat annoying personality quite well) In case you guys don’t know a shock jock is like a very eccentric radio host.

6. Escape from Camazotz is another crazy title. He’s a figure from Mayan mythology who’s a bat spirit. That immediately makes me think of Eddie, but also Steve ofc. However, camazotz has a larger meaning that goes beyond “bat spirit”, it’s also a representation of death and night. So the title seems to be alluding to someone escaping from death or a perilous situation.

Even more interesting perhaps is that kamazotz is a name of a planet in A Wrinkle Time. It’s the planet where IT resides, the mind controlling antagonist of the narrative. So I guess in this comparison Kamazotz is the UD, and IT is Henry.

[red-might-be-dead]

hello hi here to force strange thoughts into your brain once again, this time about jrwi (wow who could’ve guessed)

been thinking about this for a little but it’s basically what i think some campaigns would be if not podcasts, i haven’t listened to some of the older ones so i’m sorry they’re not on here :(( if you have any ideas feel free to add them btw :DD

RIPTIDE!!!!! - really long animated series

not an anime though, no matter how much grizzly wants it, it would be an animation style where the characters could have very clearly different nose, face and body shapes, really pushing my riptide nose agenda here sorry, each episode would be like 20-40 minutes long and instead of coming out in seasons there would be massive gaps in between episodes, from 2-6 months long, to leave time for writers and animators to get stuff done (massive team of animators btw, i feel like it would be pretty successful)

PRIME DEFENDERS!! - comics

literally nothing else they could be, just really well made, well performing comics (i’ve already talked about this before you can stalk my talk tag if you really want to find it lmao), the comic company making them would be keeping well away from movies n shit btw

APOTHEOSIS!!! - i wasn’t really sure about this one to be honest

i had to ask my friend and she said anime which i don’t agree with but i can see it, i think maybe a short book series where each book is 150 - 300 pages and is about a different god they have to kill/a different episode, i think that works but if anyone has any better ideas please tell me :D!!

BLOOD IN THE BAYOU!!! - i hate to say it, i really do…

bitb would be a really long really good 80s horror book with strong homoerotic undertones, a satisfied fanbase and lots of active members in the community making fan comics, films, writing, theories and art ect… until well after the book came out……….. and then it would be made into the most egregious and awful live action movie you have ever seen, the most awful casting (like chris pratt as officer dudes….. throws up) and even worse sfx, oh yeah and the characters would be ruined and the story would become so butchered it wouldn’t make sense, they would do some shit like cut out becky so kian just kisses some random lady (removing both a really good and well written character and a layer of kian’s character that i think is super important) and make rolan really be an evil bug spy the whole time so rand has to kill him to save the town also add in a whole new sub plot that never existed like the rand family is secretly a long line of bug alien hunters or something fucking stupid like that and the entire fanbase would murder whoever thought re-writing the story was a good idea (ahaha can you tell ive been through something like this before ahahaha, character morals and motives being removed and whatnot ahahahhahahaha.)

anyways………

THE SUCKENING!!! - live action series

it would be well made though, unlike the bitb movie it would be its own original thing, have great makeup and effects also be well casted and well shot, well written, ect ect, it would bloody and gory and not suitable for people who can’t handle showing bones and organs all over everywhere, lots of shitty rip off merch would be made though and the fandom would be 99% gay little freaks (normal suckening enjoyers) and 1% homophobic straight white men who get mad whenever they see soda and emizel having gay sex on screen or whatever fag shit that biting thing was

again feel free to add your thoughts and ideas and shit in the reblogs it would be nice to read them :DD!!

[shutupineedtothink]

Ok so my friend and I just recorded 4 HOURS of raw audio breaking down the OUAT pilot, season 1 finale, and discussing the show in general for our new podcast where we make each other watch episodes of our favorite shows and talk about them together. It’s exactly as fun as you would imagine. :)

But even after all that, I still have things I forgot to say or didn’t get to. So here’s a few of them:

1. “Evil” as addiction: the OUAT writers treat the concept of being evil like addiction/substance abuse which is really interesting and kind of a bold choice for a 2011 show about fairytales. Then within that structure they show basically the two choices you have when facing addiction: choose not to use and become a better, healed version of yourself (Regina) or keep using and stay stuck in your patterns and hurt everyone you love forever (Rumple). As a child of an alcoholic who has chosen the latter, I loved watching Regina’s journey in this context and while she stumbles a lot, she keeps striving to be good even though she gets the short end of the stick most of the time. And her North Star is always Henry, which I think is important to show that you don’t just change because you feel like it, there usually has to be the threat of something worse happening if you don’t change (in this case, losing Henry physically and emotionally).

2. Regina Mills might be the most psychologically complex and interesting character on prime time tv in the 2010s? Period??

3. I rambled a good bit in the podcast about the costumes and color symbolism but here’s a bit more for you: Once Regina is on team heroes she often wears some kind of red top (the hero’s color) with a black jacket/coat over it showing that she’s changed on the inside but she still *looks* like the evil queen on the outside and can now use that persona/power to her advantage instead of being consumed by it. By the end of S5 this contrasts with Emma who wears her signature red jacket but a black/white/gray sweater underneath, showing that she’s a little more of a mix of good and evil these days post-dark one. In a color sense, they’re almost mirror images of each other at this point, and it’s really cool.

4. I know a lot of people are really salty about how Emma’s light kind of dims toward S4, 5, 6, and I’m right there with you. Her character feels flatter, and honestly kind of depressed. Now idk if this was a real choice on the writers’/JMo’s part, if she was going through some stuff at this time and it just showed up in the character, or what. That said, it does track for me in a way, especially post-dark one. She should be kind of thrown off by everything that’s happened! She should be changed! I just wish they had done something with it instead of pretending it was normal. If Regina’s struggle with evil is analogous to addiction, why can’t Emma’s struggle with evil be analogous to depression? It would have been an interesting take. Somebody write the fic.

I could keep going but I’ll stop here for now. Stay tuned for the podcast!

[pettypiastri]

my boyfriend's boyfriend

jamie drysdale x fem reader ft. trevor zegras

requested by @corneliaskates: "okay in light of these photos… I’m making you write jamie for me what about like moving in with him but like moving in with him also means moving in with trevor and… chaos ensues"

wc: 2.3k

warnings: blood in the context of undercooked food and also minor injury, reference to Jamie's shoulder injury and doctors offices, swearing, mention of drugs in a medical context, chaos, buffoonary

a/n: just some fun casual writing for a collection of scenes that i think you’d likely see upon moving into the zegras/drysdale household, pls enjoy the chaos! lots of this unhinged behavior we already knew about the 2 of them but a few details came from the recent "The Players Lounge" podcast episodes with jamie and trevor so go listen! (also would the homies wanna see me write for mason mctavish cause i really would love to do so)

Jamie stares blankly at the doctor as he continues to come to. He doesn’t hear the inquisition the doctor made. The first thought on his mind is the only thought he's had since he skated off the ice, his left shoulder in a dead hang: his season is over, there’s no way around it. 

“Mr. Drysdale?” The physician tries to get Jamie’s attention. 

“Yes, umm I’ll be there to help him. I’ve taken time off work.” Jamie turns his head slowly to look at you. He barely registers what you’ve said. He almost wants to ask you to repeat it but he knows he heard you right. The doctor shifts toward you, flipping through the aftercare instructions and various medications Jamie will have to take. You’re collected, attentive, and receptive all the while Jamie’s eyes bore into your profile, trying to understand. He’s still drowning in self-wallowing and frustration and now is trying to parse through the funny sort of feeling in his heart watching you prepare yourself to be a part time caretaker for him. Not only are you here right now, you’ve just admitted out loud, without any previous discussion between the two of you that you are not just willing but going to help him during his recovery?? He feels an intensity to communicate his love and appreciation for you that he’s not used to but ends up manifesting as,

“Will you move in with me?” The door to the exam room has just barely clicked shut from the doctor’s exit. Your spine is rod straight now from where you were previously collecting your purse and coat. Jamie’s always been a fiddler, twitching and messing with loose skin on his finger or the belt loop of your jeans, but now he sits perfectly still as he stares at you. 

“Where’s the big red button, I think they gave you too much of something bud.” Humor always serves as a great deflection tactic for you but Jamie won’t let you off the hook.

“No no, I’m serious. Do you want to move in with me?” Your expression remains slightly standoffish as you draw closer to the bed. As you prop yourself on the hospital bed, you notice his eyes are inviting, stoic: a safe place to land. Lazy fingers reach to soothe Jamie’s uninjured arm. 

“Would you have asked me if you hadn’t torn your shoulder?” Jamie’s nod is emphatic. 

“Yes, it probably just would’ve taken me a bit longer to ask. You still make me nervous-- but like in a good way, in a good way.” Jamie stumbling over his words endears you like nothing else. “I kind of hate being without you, not in a weird codependent way, I just really like who I am when you’re around.” 

Your mind is already made up after Jamie’s unbridled honesty but you still have to ask,

“Shouldn’t you run this by Trev first maybe?” He is a member of the household, though not much of a contributing one. To sell his conviction, Jamie’s eyes don’t leave yours as he reaches for his phone in the back pocket of the jeans he thinks he’s wearing. He gets an awful fright meeting bare skin under the hospital gown. Creasing at the waist with laughter doesn’t hinder you too much as you dig for his phone in your purse. He takes it sheepishly from your grasp. As he dials Trevor’s number, you urge him to put it on speaker phone.

“Jimmy! How high are you, man??”

“Z, Y/N’s gonna move in with us.”

“I thought she already lived here?”

—

Since the moment of Jamie’s injury you’ve been practically inseparable. Surgeon consultations, post op, helping him dress, cooking for him, you’ve truly been there for it all for Jamie. Now that he’s several months post op and regained most all of his range of motion, he’s been eager to pick up some slack. 

“Are they closed?” 

“Jamie my love, yes. I’ve literally had them closed every time you’ve asked in the last 15 minutes.” You sigh, patience thinning at both the frequent reminders and… well… how goddamn slow Jamie’s being. To pass the time, you’ve taken to concocting a game with the yellow spots on the inside of your closed eyelids.

“Dude it’s been fucking hours would you hurry up already?” 

“Trevor, no one asked you.” Jamie snips at his childish best friend. It’s date night tonight and Jamie wanted to cook for you. Trevor decided, because he is cripplingly codependent, that he just had to sit on the living room couch to scroll Instagram. You’ve mentally taken the under on Trevor stealing some of your bread with olive oil within the first five minutes of it being in front of you because ‘Jimmy why didn’t you make any for me too?’

“Okay it's ready, you can open!” Slowly doing as you’re told to readjust to the well lit dining room, you catch Jamie scurrying around to his side of the table. His face holds an adorably pleased expression, you can tell he’s very proud of himself. The spread in front of you is barbequed steak, bread with olive oil, and a green salad; a shockingly balanced meal. A normally restless boy, Jamie vibrates with excitement even more now as he waits for your appraisal. 

“Jamie baby, it looks amazing! Thank you!” Crows' feet emerge to compensate for his smile becoming impossibly wider, yet he’s still a bit shy, bashful after your praise.

“I’d hope so, it took you long enough Jimbo,” the peanut gallery croons again. You don’t even acknowledge Trevor as you begin to saw through your steak… until red liquid begins to pour out… Stunned and surprised, your mouth gapes for a moment, finding the gentlest way to put things.

“Jamie,” drawing out the final vowel, your eyes flick to his. His expression is eager with eyebrows raised in question.

“How long was this steak on the barbeque for?” 

“Like 10 minutes I think? Why?” Jamie pales slightly at your question.

“I think the heat was too high babe.” Jamie observes his steak with a close eye and then oggles yours from across the table before reaching for his knife. 

“What do you mean? You said it looks amazing, I mean look at those char marks!” 

“Jamie baby, it's practically still moo’ing…” Trevor bursts out laughing, his stupid wheeze accompanying Jamie’s panic. As his knife breaches the admittedly lovely crust, bloody liquid pours out of Jamie’s steak as well. The color of his cheeks grows to match that of what's on his plate. Jamie starts to say something but it’s Trevor’s voice you both hear instead.

“Just put it in the microwave.” 

—

The team returned last night from the East coast road trip. You and Jamie have been in denial about Trevor’s return, trying to stretch out the silence with a lazy day on the couch. Trevor however has had other plans.

“Why do I have the least blanket right now? I’m literally the tallest of us three.” 

“Because no one invited you to join?” You shove at Trevor’s toes that are digging into your thigh from how you’re sardine-d on the couch. He whines as you do so, pushing at you back. Harder. “Ow Trevor stop!” 

“What I’m not fucking doing anything!” 

“Guys! I can’t hear what they’re saying!” Jamie bursts, effectively shutting you both up. Trevor glares at you as you snuggle further into Jamie’s chest, Jamie's arm visibly tightening around you. The face you give Trevor is smug. 

“Fine, I’ll just go somewhere else then.” As he stands from the couch he makes an equally childish display of flipping the blanket up and over your head, messing up your hair and covering your eyes.

Jamie coos quietly at you not to say anything or react so you remain calm and settle in to watch the rest of the current episode of Yellowstone with your boyfriend.

A few minutes later when there is a distinct cacophony of falling caps, banging metal doors, and at least a liter container of liquid (hopefully closed) hitting the floor, it’s not hard to tell Trevor has decided to do his laundry. He comes back upstairs acting as if nothing was afoot. 

It’s not until an hour later when Trevor has made the switch to the dryer that you notice something actually might be off. Wafting up from downstairs is a distinct smell of burning. You pause to be sure your nose isn’t confusing something else before voicing your worry.

“Do you smell that?” Jamie sniffs violently enough to be audible. 

“What are you– oh shit!” Jamie moves from behind your back leaving you flopping onto yours from his quickness. “Trevor!!” He shouts while bounding down the stairs. “I told you, you have to clean the lint trap every single time you use the dryer!” His voice grows inaudible the farther downstairs he gets. Trevor peeks his head out from his room. 

“Was he talking to me?” You can’t help but laugh, hands covering your face in disbelief.

“Why are we friends with you?” 

“I’m fucking awesome, duh.”

—

“Okay don’t panic–” Is all you hear before you start to panic. “But umm Z might’ve slipped on the roof…” 

“Tell me you’re joking. Why are you calling me? Oh my god Jamie, call the trainer or something! Is he hurt?” It’s brisk in the shade where you stepped out of your office to answer the incessant calls from your boyfriend. You’re still not off for another hour. 

“I think he’s okay. Definitely tore open his leg but we put some stuff on it. He’s still complaining about it but you know him, he’s always complaining about something so I think he’s okay.” As Jamie finishes, your phone vibrates with a text. “I sent you a picture of it.” The picture reveals a shallow cut about 6 inches long down the front of Trevor’s calf. There’s still remnants of blood around the cut itself and more notably about 12 normal sized bandaids placed like a patchwork quilt over the area of interest. Idiots. “We didn’t wanna get in trouble with the team…” Jamie says softly, decidedly embarrassed.

“I see. Okay well great job with the band aids you guys. I’ll pick some more up on the way home and some other supplies. Why were you up there?” 

“I was playing guitar and Trevor came up to tell me he could do it better and then promptly took it from me.” There’s a pouty lilt to Jamie’s voice that makes you wonder if Trevor’s really the one that got hurt. 

“Did he damage your guitar Jim Jam?” A shiver rakes your body as you’re desperate to get back inside the office.

“No, thank god.” He’s quiet, waiting for your reply. 

“You’re doing great Jamie, it’s really coming along baby.” He chirps a thank you, easily excited by your dismissal of Trevor’s insult. The two of you say your goodbye’s over Trevor’s whining in the background. 

On your way home, as promised, you stop at a drugstore to grab some gauze and larger wraps for Trevor’s ‘injury.’ You send a snarky picture of two contending boxes of Band Aids side by side to Trevor. Your caption ‘Mandalorian or Tangled?’ Something tells you Trevor’s reply is completely serious when your phone lights up with ‘Flynn Rider.’

—

Jamie slips into your shared bathroom as you’re fanning gently at your face. He smiles kindly but doesn’t start a conversation. Instead he reaches for his toothbrush and sets to brushing his teeth. The two of you don’t normally get ready for bed together at the exact same time. Typically one of you is asleep on the couch and being prodded at by the other to come to bed. Well, you normally prod at Jamie while he normally gallantly carries you to bed without disturbing your sleep. As he brushes his teeth, Jamie observes you as his entertainment. He steadies himself with a hip popped against the counter and one foot crossed in front of the other. 

Jamie’s attention does not bother you. Being the type not to speak until prompted, Jamie’s stays silent, his watchful gaze comforting if anything. That is until his lips form a small smile around his toothbrush that begins to grow. Finally you flick your eyes over to him in the mirror and notice toothpaste beginning to trickle down his chin. A drop that was lingering ominously begins to fall so you lurch forward to catch it in the palm of your hand, not wanting to risk the white carpet square Jamie’s standing on. 

“If you keep smiling like that you’re gonna get toothpaste on yourself Jamie. Be careful.” The toothpaste in your palm is flicked into the sink before you promptly rinse your hand. Jamie heeds your warning, deciding it's time for him to rinse as well. After his hands are towel dried he moves to hug you from behind. The smile is still on his face.

“Seriously, what are you smiling about, mister?” A giggle escapes your chest. You feel Jamie’s shrug against your back as you dig for another product in the drawer next to you. 

“Dunno, I’m just so happy you’re here.” Around you, Jamie’s never shied away from honesty and it’s something you’ve always appreciated. The last few months living with Jamie and Trevor has been chaos, hell at times, and insanely stressful but you’ve still found joy in every moment. So you meet Jamie’s honesty with some of your own when you say,

“There’s no place I’d rather be.” 

Later, when the two of you find yourselves curled around each other in bed, under an excessive number of blankets, it’s like Trevor has ESP for when he’s being left out of affections. A knock on the conjoining wall confirms this theory. His voice is muffled but you can still make it out.

“I love you guys.” Jamie chuckles and kisses your forehead, shaking with laughter of your own.

“We love you too Trevor.”

[charmac]

The Always Sunny Podcast has successfully pushed the Season 5 rewatches far enough that there is no way they can get to The D.E.N.N.I.S System before Season 16 premieres.

When this is all purposeful, it’s always been purposeful, not doing the podcast for a month without really saying why… “working on Season 16” Glenn was in Hawaii. Then the live shows conveniently breaking it up further… They could have done a few, they used to just hop on Zoom when one of them was away and get it done. And can we talk about the pre-recorded one? I’m dying to talk about the fact that they went and pre-recorded ONE. They had to get one in before, they were running out of time…

And they’re talking about the movies, the movies, sure, the movies are important who doesn’t want to talk about their movies? Hear about their movies?

But now look where we landed, with this, talking about the movies. That pushes the rewatch perfectly. Now, they do one rewatch episode a week (Meg has promised they’re committed to doing so) and where do we land? Count it out…

Mac and Dennis Break Up lands on June 5.

1601 and 1602 premiere June 7.

The D.E.N.N.I.S. System rewatch will be June 12.

It all means something it’s all in line, they have this down, definitely, I’m absolutely not just going crazy here, there was a break for a reason and now this. We’ll go into Ep 1 & 2 right off the MADBU podcast, and then we’ll get the D.E.N.N.I.S System for men and then, after that airs, they’ll go into the rewatch for the OG D.E.N.N.I.S System, and they waited all this time, delay delay delay, so they can draw all the parallels and talk about it right alongside the episode.

Macdennis. D.E.N.N.I.S System for Men. The structure.

Do you understand how insanely buzzed I feel right now? We’re going into Season 16 immediately off the MADBU podcast and then going right into The D.E.N.N.I.S System rewatch knowing (and probably maybe hopefully already seeing) the new D.E.N.N.I.S System in action. And RCG know this, they’ve filmed it, they’ve cut it, they’ve seen it. The rewatch delay seems so intentional, like they have so so so much to say…

[gentlebeardsbarngrill]

04/04/2024 Daily OFMD Recap

TLDR; Rhys/Rosie/Theo; Kristian Nairn; Nathan Foad; Jes Tom; Samba Schutte; Dominic Burgess; Watch parties; Glaad Awards Reminder; SaveOFMDCrew's Final Charity Donations; Fan Spotlight; Cast Cards; Big Gay Energy Podcast; OFMD Sightings; Articles; Love Notes; Daily Darby/Today's Taika

Hey all! Sorry for the late recap again, as a heads up I'm doing late night work for my day job (sometimes 8pm - 1 am) and also still trying to get my taxes done by the 15th, so the recaps may be delayed til the following morning depending on how late I have to work.

= Rhys & Rosie =

Rhys and Rosie's bday happened in AoNZ and some friends snapped some cute pics and videos!

Src: H.Miller's IG

Sneaky Rhys arm today! The Darby Family Influencer Era seems to be in full swing!

Edit: I felt kinda weird plastering Theo's face up so I left in Rhys' arm since people keep asking for it, lol

Src: Rosie's IG Stories

= Nathan Foad =

Src: Kennett Tanner's IG Nathan was also interviewed by British Comedy Guide!

= Dominic Burgess =

Our Jeffrey Fettering was interviewed by Variety! Check it out here! Src: Dominic's Twitter

= Kristian Nairn =

Kristian sent us some love notes!

"Looking forward to all the work / travel / meeting you guys stuff coming up this year. Have a good day y’all !!" SRC: Kristian's IG

= Samba Schutte =

Samba being a goofball Src: Samba's IG Stories

= Jes Tom =

Some sightings of Jes Tom! On their instagram! SRC: Jes Tom's IG Stories

== Watch Parties ==

Taskmaster NZ Series 1 Watch Party with @saveofmdcrewmates! When: April 3-12 (W,F, Su - 2 eps each) Time: 11 am PT/ 2pm ET/ 7pm BST Where to watch: YouTube, TVNZ, Channel 4

Twitter Hashtags:

#Quartermaster

#OurFlagMeansDeath

#Taskmaster

== GLAAD Awards ==

Apparently you can vote multiple times with the same email on the GLAAD awards! To vote: https://t.co/dEfZMncBfO Src: @adoptourcrew Twitter

== Save OFMD Crew Final Charity Donation Results ==

$1000 GBP to @Mermaids_Gender (UK) mermaidsuk.org.uk

$2,028 NZD to RainbowYouth (AoNZ) ry.org.nz

$1216 USD to Point Foundation (US) pointfoundation.org

== Fan Spotlight ==

= Cast Cards =

Our dear @melvisik spotlighted King George I today! Angus Sampson did such an excellent job making the kind unhinged! Check him out in his other work!

= Big Gay Energy Podcast =

New reaction video to Calypso's Birthday!

== Other ==

Thank you @oluwandesorange on twitter for pointing out the the OFMD billboards are STILL UP

== Articles ==

“I’m Scared”: Why It’s a Brutal Time to Be a TV Writer

Coyote versus Warner Bros: The fight to get a movie released

Hulu Just Canceled Another Show After One Season, And I'm Getting Really Tired Of It

== Love Notes ==

Hey lovelies! The week is almost over! Was it busy for you? Have you been hanging in there? I do want to know! I think about you all every day, even when I'm busy with work.

I know you've heard it all before, but please take some time to practice some self care today. It's been a long week for a lot of folks and you've been through the ringer from various life events. Please drink some water, grab a snack, stick your nose out the window (weather permitting) and take a deep breath of fresh air.

The weekend is coming, and the more self care you practice, the easier things will be. Ebbs and Flows babe, everything ebbs and flows, and sometimes we get longer ebbs, and longer flows -- but we can brave them better if we take care of ourselves.

You deserve to be taken care of. You deserve a break.

Love you crew, reach out if you wanna talk ok?

Pic Src: @gladyourehereco on IG

== Daily Darby / Today's Taika ==

Today's theme is these two goofballs expressive eyebrows.

Daily Darby: Courtesy of @ thunderwingdoomslayer

Today's Taika: Courtesy of @neverswungonswingingstars

[child-of-the-sky-people]

hi Ali! im looking for a new narrative podcast to get into, what's your current rec list? :)

Oh god it’s so long 😂

Horror:

Human Error - this one is mine so of course I’m recommending it 😂 it’s about a found family of survivors going on a road trip during a zombie apocalypse 12 years after the world ended!

We’re Alive - also zombie horror and was the show that got me into audio dramas! It’s very long and looks overwhelming but I promise it’s good!

Darkest Night - anthology horror where you find out how people died but each case is actually related and there is a bigger mystery and this show lives in my head rent free lol

The Waystation - found footage style show about a group of people on a space station that all died (the story is trying to piece together what happened). It’s along the same lines as The White Vault

DERELICT - a research group are studying a door at the bottom of the ocean, and then shit goes sideways. I binged this series super fact and I need season 2 immediately lol

The Eleventh Hour episode called The City of Statues - I made this! It’s about a group of survivors trying to make it out of a city filled with statues trying to hunt them down 👀

Someone Dies in this Elevator - mix of horror and thriller I think. It’s an anthology series where every episode someone dies in an elevator 👀 I composed for a few episodes and it’s v fun 🤩

Thriller

The Liberty Podcast - made by the same folks behind The White Vault and VAST Horizon. It’s an anthology series of stories taking place within and surrounding a tower where a civilization lives. Some episodes might lean more towards horror but I personally consider it more thriller

The Walk - made by the same folks behind zombies run! In this show you the listener are the main character, an individual making their way across Scotland with a package they were mistakenly delivered. I love this show so much omg

Primordial Deep - scientists are finding extinct dinosaurs alive and well under the ocean and they’re trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. I fucking love this show omg

Spines - woman wakes up in the middle of a cult ritual with no memories and is trying to figure out who she is and where she came from. Also there are powers!

Mirrors - same person behind Spines! Three women from three different centuries (who are all related to each other) discover they can communicate with each other through ghost like figures. It has a bigger mystery and the ending made me cry it was so good

InCo - a woman finds a prince from a world that shouldn’t exist floating in space. This show is a delight and is a micro series and I love the humor within it so much omg

Where the Stars Fell - the Antichrist is roommates with their guardian angel and they’re trying to stop the rapture

DUST - anthology series about science fiction and technology! Season 3 is definitely my favorite as it is one story but the entire show as a whole is very good

Feel Good/Light Hearted Shows

Unseen - this show lives in my head rent free and I ache for it to be real. It’s about magic existing in the real world and is an anthology! It’s made by the same folks behind Wolf 359

Joy to the World - holiday series I helped produce! It’s about an astronaut named Joy talking with different people on Earth about the holidays! It’s an anthology and v warm and I highly recommend it as a holiday series

Sidequesting - a person who is totally not the hero is avoiding the main plot and going on a bunch of side quests! It’s charming and lovely and made by the wonderful Tal

Back Again, Back Again - a woman is retelling her stories of his magical world she was transported into and about the prophecy she became involved in

If none of these are your jam lmk and I can suggest some more! If you tell me what you like to listen to/what kinds of stories you enjoy I can make a more personalized list

[solarpunkpresentspodcast]

There Is No Perfect System

There’s no dipping one’s toe into the solarpunk stream without noticing that although not all solarpunks are anarchists, there is a strong sense in solarpunk that we won’t be living happily, freely, and sustainably until we dismantle both capitalism and the state.

Ah, but if only it was only capitalism that is capable of social and environmental savagery. And, hey, hang on a second. It’s not as if even democracies can only be stifling and oppressive.

I will admit that for decades I too have dreamed of living in a society where we didn’t need the police, prisons, or laws because we all just voluntarily treat each other decently and all personally make sure to commit no crimes against the environment. But the older me has become skeptical that such a systemless system could ever work. Are we going to ship all the people who can’t play well with others to Mars? Look at how much trouble we’re having already, especially now that so many people (and politicians) have figured out that they can pretty much get away with murder by ignoring the social norms that keep society functioning by filling in the gaps in between the laws.

I’m 100% with you when you say that capitalism has been terrible for people and the planet. The less carefully regulated capitalism is, the more it is a race to the bottom where 15 people on Earth have all the money, the natural world has given way to soy bean fields, palm oil plantations, and toxic garbage dumps, and the rest of us are living in misery and vastly reduced life expectancy in hovels or in prison.

But—honest question—is there a better alternative?

Communism, as it was practiced in the 20th century, was also terrible for the environment. Often egregiously so. My better half grew up in East Germany and it’s tons less polluted now than it was under communist authoritarianism when, honestly, nobody cared one bit about the damage they were doing to people or nature even when they weren’t under pressure to make profit. Today, under capitalism in a still at least somewhat social democracy, there are rules and investment directed at preventing, among other things, factories and powerplants from dumping their waste or sending it unfiltered out through their chimneys.

As much as it’s easy and not far off the mark to rail against the evils of capitalism, it actually isn’t capitalism—or communism or any other -ism—that treats the environment as nothing more than a repository of resources for human use. It’s the people operating within the framework of capitalism (etc)—or at least a pretty good chunk of them. And if that is the case, why should we expect that anarchism and its lack of a state will magically delivery us from the human selfishness, laziness, shortsightedness, and greed that lies at the root of the cruelest, most unjust, most environmentally damaging, and most unsustainable aspects of capitalism?

No matter what, we will never escape ourselves. Wherever we go, there we still will be at the heart of any system we use to order ourselves and our economies.

It is as my friend Don, the now retired librarian that I talked to in Season 2, Episode 2 of the podcast, was telling me the other day. It’s comforting to think that we just need to set up the perfect system and then everything will be utopian. But there is no perfect system because systems are created and administered by people and every single one of us is flawed. We are all to some degree—although some of us to more degrees than others—clever but stupid, short–sighted but wise, fair but unfair, greedy but generous, hard working but lazy, clear thinking but delusional, and honest but mendacious.

So why are we dreaming of the day that we finally have a perfect system when instead we should be working on ourselves and how we work together to get things done?

This isn’t to say that some systems aren’t worse than others. I mean, who wants anything as lacking in counterbalancing measures as monarchies, repressive authoritarian regimes, or dictatorships?

In the name of the sensible aspects of solarpunk, let’s work with what we have on hand: the the democracies that, at least as of the time of this writing, we still have. Let’s put our dreams of anarchistic perfection on the back burner and get down to the very real, very urgently needed work of shoring up our democracies against the corrosive attacks undermining them.

I don’t know about you, but given the upcoming elections and all the hatred people seem to have for each other, for the first time in my entire life, I’m worried about what the near future will be like. And I feel like that by the time we all take to the streets to rail against the rise in authoritarianism, it may already be too late.

[the-conversation-pod]

OM NOM NOM: The What Did You Eat Yesterday? Episode

And we're back! Ben and NiNi finally sit down to talk about their favorite food BL, and unpack all the ways that What Did You Eat Yesterday? made them grapple with queer mortality and long-term commitment. Grab a snack and a drink, and join us for the discussion about our favorite Comfort BL.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Introduction 00:01:15 - What Did You Eat Yesterday?: The Granddaddy 00:12:08 - Favorite Episodes 00:19:22 - The Show that Keeps Coming Back 00:24:57 - Season 2: Mortality, Family, and Hets 00:43:10 - WDYEY is So Gay and Found Family 00:50:54 - Let’s Talk About The Food 00:56:36 - Final Thoughts (And A Moment to Drag Nobu)

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Introduction

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

01:15 - What Did You Eat Yesterday?: The Granddaddy

Ben

And we're back. Finally, my time has come. [NiNi laughs] NiNi has finally set down some time for us to talk about my favorite show after they embarrassed me in the Clip Show. 

We are finally talking about What Did You Eat Yesterday?

NiNi

We are. You must know by now, dear listeners, that this is the granddaddy. This is the show of all time for us, this is the yardstick by which things are measured. What Did You Eat Yesterday? is an article of faith for Ben and I. 

Ben, why don't you tell the people what What Did You Eat Yesterday? is about?

Ben

What Did You Eat Yesterday? is a slice of life food drama from Japan that is about two gay men in their forties-approaching-50, and it's about the daily challenges of their life as they try to maintain a long-term relationship with each other, and grounded around the meals they share at their dinner table.

NiNi

So simple a description. So, somehow, deep and devastating a show.

Ben

NiNi, how about you try describing our leads in this show?

NiNi

Hoo! Okay, let's see! So our two main leads are Kakei Shiro, played by Nishijima Hidetoshi; and Yabuki Kenji, played by Uchino Seiyo. These two are legends of the stage and screen, and it shows in the show. There's a cast of fun characters that surrounds Shiro and Kenji. 

At Shiro’s job—Shiro’s a lawyer—there is Mom-sensei, Mom-sensei’s son, and various other lawyers in the office. At Kenji's job at the hair salon, there is his boss, who is a serial philanderer; his wife who he runs the salon with; and a cast of other hairdressers and assorted hangers on. And then you've got their friends who steadily become more and more important to the show as they go along. Shiro's friend Kohinata and his partner Wataru, otherwise known as Gilbert. There are a lot of other characters around. There’s Shiro and Kenji's families, there's their neighbor, Koyama. There's so many, so many fantastic characters in this little show. Each of them so distinct, each of them so fully fleshed out and human in a lot of ways. 

I don't know how to talk about this show. I love it so much. It goes so deep for me. Like I said, it's an article of faith, almost, and I just get a warm feeling when I think about it. When I watch it, when I see all the characters on it interact, from the intensely important characters like Shiro's parents, all the way down to the lady at the supermarket where Shiro and Kenji buy their groceries—who is Shiro's partner in keeping his food bills down by pointing to the sales without speaking to him. Ever.

[both laugh]

Ben

I love their dynamic. It's so funny. 

To talk about What Did You Eat Yesterday?, let's talk about BL, and why What Did You Eat Yesterday? feels unique in relation to BL. In BL, you're in traditional romance. You got two pretty people. They looked at each other. They liked what they saw. And they gotta figure out if they can be together. In What Did You Eat Yesterday? we're past the figuring it out portion. They decided they want to be together and now they're navigating what that means. Unlike in a traditional BL, where your ongoing arc is, “Are these two going to finally kiss?” this show is structured episodically, where each episode is about something going on in their lives that they have to contend with, and then we move beyond that particular issue. 

There is an ongoing throughline about these two coming to a greater understanding of each other, learning to love themselves better, building more intimate relationships with the people around them, and building their relationship. But that's so different from the rest of BL. What Did You Eat Yesterday? episodes, in a lot of ways, can stand on their own. You can go back for What Did You Eat Yesterday? and watch some of your favorite episodes individually in a way that I don't think is as accessible with a traditional romance.

NiNi

I think what it is is that it's a traditional situation comedy. So it's not necessarily a serialized story, although there are elements that you keep up with—runners that go through the story—it is more of a “There's a situation. They deal with the situation. Sometimes there are hijinks, sometimes it's more serious. There's always some kind of a heartwarming moment, and they always cook something because food is the center of their home.” 

It's lovely and predictable in that way that you know what you're going to get in a What Did You Eat Yesterday? episode, but also, you never know how things are gonna turn for Shiro and Kenji. Not in the sense of, “Oh, are they gonna break up over this?” Not something like that. But you never know if this is the moment that one of them is going to have a revelation, or there's going to be a moving forward in their dynamic. You just never know if that's gonna happen. So there's parts of the show, particularly around Shiro’s very complicated relationship with the closet, that sometimes you think it's gonna zig and then actually it zags and you're like, “Oh, my God, Shiro is growing.” 

It's so fun to watch, especially at my age, to know that you can still grow, and learn, and change, and learn to adjust and compromise for other people if you care enough to do so. You ain't dead yet. [laughs]

Ben

I think what makes this show special for me is it doesn't exist in the bubble, and the issues that they have are specific to gay men. 

The very first issue that we encounter for them is how closeted Shiro is compared to Kenji, who is a flamboyant hairdresser. Kenji and Shiro's first fight that we experienced, Kenji brags to one of his clients about his boyfriend, and he gets a little racy about it. And then later, when Kenji and Shiro are walking down the street together, they encounter that client, who comments on the details of their relationship that she gleaned from Kenji and embarrasses Shiro, who is deeply-closeted and doesn't want people walking around talking about his business. Kenji gets really upset about this and begins to cry and asks, “Everyone else gets to talk about their families and everyone they love that's important to them. Why am I not allowed to?” And Shiro doesn't really have a great response to that, because he knows he's in the wrong, and so instead he just makes some of Kenji's favorite food. [laughs] Which is one of the ongoing ways they solve their issues. 

So much of this show is about the long term impacts of the closet and homophobia on gay men, and the ways it informs how we make bonds with each other. We mentioned Kohinata and Wataru earlier. They only meet Kohinata because Shiro has an encounter at the grocery store with a woman who also wants to take advantage of a sale on watermelon, but the watermelon is too big for their refrigerators, and so they decide to split it. They become friends. And, in time, they introduced Shiro to one of their other gay friends. And they do that thing that's kind of annoying from straight people. They're like, “You're both gay! Go, you know, mingle with each other.” And like, that's super awkward as hell, but it ends up being genuinely helpful. They do actually become friends. They start hanging out as couples together. 

There's a really good examination about the fact that Kenji is not exactly Shiro's type per se, but Kohinata is, and Kenji gets worried that if he leaves Shiro alone with Kohinata, something might happen. And they have a really sort of ugly breakdown where Kenji admits this jealousy is in him, but he feels like he's wrong in that regard because he once cheated on a partner, so he doesn't have the moral high ground here. But it's still something he's deathly terrified of because he loves Shiro so much and doesn't want to lose him. 

What's so special about this show is when they introduce something interesting in an episode, they're able to use that later, where you benefit from having seen that interaction earlier, but it doesn't matter if you don't remember all of it. You don't have to remember all those details about how he and Kayoko met to appreciate that they are grocery friends now, who take advantage of sales together and like to cook things together when there's a way to benefit. There's a beautiful examination of the mundane in this show that is really heartwarming.

12:08 - Favorite Episodes

NiNi

I wanna get a little bit into this idea that you had about the episodic nature of this and maybe do a little fun thing. Do you have a favorite episode of What Did You Eat Yesterday?

Ben

Depends on my mood at the time.

NiNi

What are some of your tops?

Ben

I think, in the first season, I really like the Christmas episode, they host Kohinata and Wataru. We had already seen Shiro make that meal for Kenji as the first thing he cooked for him. He tried to make the best dishes he could make the first night Kenji moved in with him, and that just sort of became their Christmas tradition because it just happened to be the holiday season. And I liked him sharing that with other gay people. That's also the episode where Shiro says plainly that he wants to take Kenji home so that his parents can see that he's not a sad person because Kenji's at his side. And that gets me. 

We've seen the Christmas moments three times in this show now, because we have Kenji first moving in, their dinner with Wataru and them, and then we had Christmas again in the second season. But in the second season, they end up changing their menu because of their changing health needs. That was really well earned because we, the audience, were primed for another Christmas meal and we're excited to see it, but it was really lovely to see them unpack that their Christmas traditions are something that they have control over. This is really significant for me as a queer person, because we have to create our own traditions. 

We don't get to have all of the same ones that straight people do. Some of us are not necessarily welcome with our partners around our families. We don't necessarily go home to see them. We often do events with other people at the holiday season. One of mine is getting other local homos together to watch the seminal classic by Rob Williams, Make the Yuletide Gay, a not great film from 2009, but one of my favorite films. 

The other episode I really like is from the first season, the episode where Kenji invites his friends to meet Shiro to talk about adult adoption, particularly because we had follow up on that episode in the second season. Adult adoption was the right choice for Kenji's friends, but Kenji later in the second season refuses to be adopted by Shiro, because he wants to hold out for marriage. Once Shiro adopts him, marriage is not possible, and that is what he wants. For pragmatic reasons, older couples have to choose adult adoption to protect the younger partner from family members that the older partner does not like. But adult adoption is not marriage. Gay people want to partner with the people that are most important to them, like other people do, and it is kind of shitty that we have to do all this roundabout stuff just to protect the people we care about. 

What about you? Do you have any favorite episodes of this show?

NiNi

I always like the episodes where Kenji cooks. Because Shiro is the one who does the majority of the cooking for the two of them. It's how he shows he cares, and he enjoys it, and he's good at it. And Kenji is always incredibly appreciative of the meals that Shiro makes. 

But I always like when Kenji cooks for Shiro. Sometimes he cooks for himself because Shiro was not there, and those will be times he indulges himself and makes something that he knows that Shiro wouldn't necessarily approve of because it's unhealthy. But I always like when Kenji cooks specifically for Shiro, because he's so deliberate and thoughtful about it. There's one episode in particular when he makes some kind of soup for Shiro when he's sick.

Ben

Okay, that one is so funny because Shiro’s so independent, Kenji never gets the chance to take care of Shiro. So the way we will run around excited about BL tropes, like, “Oh, someone's sick. Oh, let's get some lukewarm water. It's time to fucking get this boy a sponge bath!”

[both laugh]

That's the moment that Kenji is having. Shiro is really sick and so has to be cared for. And so he's really excited to make a simple meal for Shiro and take care of him. But he's such a nervous wreck about it. We get to watch Shiro listening in the whole time. Like, “What the hell is happening up there?”

NiNi

[laughs] Shiro is so particular about everything and Kenji knows it, and so it's going a little bit badly. It's a little bit of a disaster. He pulls it together in the end.

Ben

Kenji actually did a good job.

NiNi

Kenji always feels like Shiro does so much for him, and Shiro doesn't let him do things for Shiro, and so he will always grab the opportunity to do something. He's always like, “Oh, we need something? I'll run, I'll go get it. I'll do this. I'll do that.”

Ben

Kenji cares about Shiro, so he takes care of their home.

NiNi

There is a situation where the washing machine overflows and part of the apartment gets flooded. Kenji notices that this is a thing that is continuously happening, and he goes out and buys a hose and says, “Well, you know, next time this happens, you can just drain it into the sink rather than it flooding the thing.” And that's when Shiro stops and he looks around at all the things that Kenji does to keep their home running, and he starts to cry. It's a very heartwarming moment, because you don't get the sense that Shiro takes Kenji for granted at all. That's not what this is about. 

But it's just one of those moments where you really stop and take stock of how loved you are and it just overwhelms you. And that's the moment that he was having. But that moment was so earned by all the moments that had come before, where you see all the small ways that Kenji tries to take care of Shiro, and how Shiro feels like it's his responsibility to take care of himself and Kenji. And he doesn't like it when he doesn't feel like he's taking care of them. Well, he's realized at this point that, “Yeah, Kenji can take care of me, too in some big and small ways, and I knew he loved me, but I really feel like he loves me.” It's just a really lovely moment.

19:22 - The Show that Keeps Coming Back

Ben

This is our fourth outing with What Did You Eat Yesterday? I've been pretty close to this show the whole time it's been airing. What's it been like for you seeing the show come back three times now?

NiNi

I could watch this show forever. That's honestly how I feel about it. And the way that the show is set up, as long as Nishijima and Uchino want to keep doing it, I think we could get this show basically forever. It feels like meeting up with old friends every time you see a new bit of it, whether it's the special or the movie or new episodes. 

It always feels like you have these friends, Shiro and Kenji. They've been living their lives. You haven't seen them for a while and then, boom. They’re here, and you're so happy to see them and you just want to know everything that's been going on with them. You wanna sit up at night and chat and catch up with their lives. Every time the show comes back, that's how I feel about it. I can't wait to sit down and catch up with Shiro and Kenji, and see what's going on with them now. 

I feel like there's more stuff that maybe you're more aware of regarding the cultural significance of the show and what it means for Japan to be doing a show like this. So why don't you get into some of that stuff?

Ben

So the first show airs, and it's decently popular. Like it performs well in its time slot, which is one of the late night time slots. “Here's a quiet, easy to watch show. Now go to bed. You have to work in the morning.”

Uchino and Nishijima are veteran actors. Both of them have well over 100 credits. They are very successful actors who are sought out and are busy. And it was really surprising that they agreed to be part of this. I cannot overstate how significant it is for queer TV… talented, veteran actors are willing to play gay characters in a gay way, and are really proud of that work, and want to keep coming back and doing it. Uchino and Nishijima say plainly all the time: They are longtime fans of the manga and were very determined to bring it to air. They worked to rearrange their schedules to make sure that this show could keep coming back. 

[Nishijima] is an Oscar winning actor now. He's becoming more internationally famous because of Drive My Car. So it's not like these guys are getting less busy. Both of these guys are so good. 

If you've only seen Uchino play Kenji, you owe it to yourself to see Uchino play a veteran Japanese historical military leader or a fucking yakuza. He is so good. You get a small flash of that when he wears the suit in the movie, and in I think episode 3 of Season 2 where he flashes the macho thing. That's Uchino teasing the rest of us about the rest of the work he's done. He's played some intensely macho characters in his career, so it's really fun seeing him in particular playing someone as flamboyant as Kenji. 

What's so surprising is the show keeps coming back. Like season one, we go from the fight in episode one, where Shiro yells at Kenji for even telling someone else that he's in a relationship with him, to them meeting Shiro's parents in episode 12, and Shiro reassuring Kenji that he doesn't want either of them to die, that they're gonna eat well and live a long, happy life together. I would have been okay. It would have still been one of my favorite shows if we just ended at episode 12. 

The arc of season one is so strong of Shiro letting go a little bit and not being so stiff. He can't give Kenji all the things he maybe wants, but he can be a little less stiff about some of these things. And then they announced the fucking New Year special and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And they're like, “Oh, yes. We’re going to a whole new year special.” What's it about? “Well, Shiro's really busy at work, so he's not gonna be home a lot.” And I'm like, oh my God. [laughs] This is so much fun. 

We got to see Kenji and Shiro dealing with separation anxiety and missing each other. That was so much fun. We got to see Kenji trying to play the role of brave housewife for a while. We got to see Kohinata and Wataru's internal dynamic for a bit. That was a really fascinating thing for us to get to experience. We got to see Kenji tell Wataru straight up, “Stop testing your partner. They're going to fail eventually. And then what? Stop holding back. You ain't brave. You ain't doing nothing.” Great stuff. 

And then we get the movie! And I was not expecting the movie either, and the movie ended up being heavier than I expected. The movie ends up having Shiro's parents regress and say they don't actually want Kenji to come over anymore. And that was a huge pain point that played out in season 2. I was not expecting them to hold on to that as long as they did. The delivery from Nishijima when he tells Kenji, “I know you're hurting over this,” was so good.

24:57 - Season 2: Mortality, Family, and Hets

Ben

Let's talk about Season 2, NiNI. What were the big things for season 2 that stuck out to you as sort of the big ideas?

NiNi

There was a definite throughline about mortality. There's a lot of death, and discussions around death, and inheritance, and family, and the next generation, and what happens when you are gone. That really sort of permeated the second season. But not in a melancholy way, more in like a contemplative way, a way that makes you think about who are the people who are important to you? What do they need? What do you want to share with them? What do you want them to have of you when you're gone? What matters about your relationship with them now? Those are the kinds of themes that the show used that runner to explore. 

Themes of moving forward and growing up in certain ways, because one of the things about Shiro that comes to the fore at work, Shiro is the kind of person who has avoided too much responsibility at work. He's avoided being promoted. He took the job that he took because he would be able to leave work on time and go home and have dinner. 

This is culturally related as well, because he's seen as a little feckless at work because he's not married, because Shiro’s not out at work, at all. He is becoming more out in other aspects of his life, but he is completely not out at work. So as far as anybody at work is concerned, Shiro’s a single man, and the idea of a single man of Shiro's age in Japanese society and culture. It's seen as him being sort of flighty and irresponsible, which is the opposite of Shiro, which is just so funny to me. 

One of the things that he does this season, because of the nature of what they're trying to explore through this idea of mortality, is that he starts taking on more responsibility at work. His boss tells him that she wants to retire and she wants him to run the law firm. This is something he would have never agreed to, never even considered before now, but because he's in a place where he feels stable and secure in his life, things are good with him and Kenji, he is coming to an accord about things with his parents. He feels stable, he feels like his life is good, and so he's more willing to take on that additional responsibility at work. 

I found that to be a really interesting part of this season, how the discussions of mortality threaded its way through the season and manifested in different ways. What about you? What are some of the things that you took away from this season?

Ben

Before I get into that, I really want to follow up on one of the things you mentioned about Shiro taking on this responsibility at work. This was a runner because it comes up about four times this season. I like that the thing that finally pushes Shiro over the edge is Kenji taking on more responsibility at work. Once he realized that Kenji was going to be a manager, and wasn't going to be home at normal times anymore, and was embracing this new responsibility in his life, that inspired Shiro to also do that as well. I really like that it was Kenji just accepting this sort of thing and being brave about it, that pushed Shiro. And I like how Shiro did it because he wanted to also help Osamu. 

You get the sense that Shiro intentionally took a job in this law firm because he wanted to work in a small law firm where there wasn't a lot of room for growth and promotion, where they wouldn’t be constantly expecting him to take on more responsibility and deal with juniors coming up underneath him. He wanted to work in a small family law firm where the mom had a son who was intended to inherit and take charge of the firm so he wouldn't be expected to. You get the sense that he was surprised that he was asked to take on partnership in this, but it ends up being something that's positive for all of them because he likes and respects Osamu. But Osamu's passion is criminal defense law, which is not very lucrative for their firm, but it's what Osamu's passionate about. 

We got to see Shiro and Osamu work together this season, and that this is not something that Osamu is being, sort of half-assed about. He got super worked up for one of their clients. I think in the first season, I thought of him as maybe a little lazy, being able to take it easy because it's his mom’s firm and Shiro’s really determined, but it was really nice to see that Osamu had his own backbone as a lawyer about things that were really important to him, that he wanted to do professionally. And some of that involves him not necessarily being hands on with the firm as he's not as good about these things. 

I really liked that Shiro is able to extend his tendency to want to help people in a more accessible way this season. He gets so scared about the gay thing that he just ends up hiding from so many people. I really enjoyed seeing Shiro be more flexible this season. He took the fact that his vision is getting worse almost completely in stride. [laughs] Even though he was so grumpy about having to spend a bunch of money on lenses. 

I actually liked the through line about how they're getting older and things are changing. I liked that the first episode this season was about them having to change grocery stores because Nakamuraya closed, and that was devastating for Shiro. That was the grocery store that he liked and trusted the most, and he had to go and find a new grocery. Thankfully, we find the same clerk at that one who is still helping them out. Speaking of her, we mentioned her earlier. I love that she has a completely distinct relationship with Kenji and Shiro, where Kenji’s like, “She talks to me all the time! She's great!” and Shiro’s just like, “What? She only ever glares at me.” 

[both laugh]

NiNi

She speaks to him one time in the entire show.

Ben

I love it.

NiNi

That's when he goes to the grocery store and she sees him in his glasses for the first time and he's self-conscious about them. And when she sees him, he takes them off really quickly and she goes, “I think they really suit you,” and that was it.

Ben

I love it. [laughs] I almost cried! I was like, yes!

NiNi

I was like that's your friend! She cares about you! [laughs]

Ben

I think she also commented once this season that the fish is actually good at the new store. She actually protected Shiro once. She was being told to go around and mark a bunch of sketchy food off that needed to go, and she saw Shiro eyeing her with the sale button, and she didn't put it on the food that she didn't think was gonna be safe for them to eat because she knew Shiro wouldn't take it if it wasn't on sale. [laughs]

I really liked in this season how Shiro was really trying to accept that things were changing in their lives. I love Shiro accepting that Kenji was going to take on this role of manager after the whole thing with the philanderer friend of Kenji's, whose wife, now that their daughter has graduated, was like, “I'm leaving this man. I can't be with him anymore.” And then he decides to fuck off to Vietnam, and so Kenji's left running the store. 

I like that Shiro accepted that they're getting older and that their food needs and eating habits are changing. That Shiro, despite his determination to save up as much as possible for their futures by being really pragmatic about their food budget, and probably other things in their lives as well, because he and Kenji never seemed to buy a lot of new things or go shopping a lot. Shiro increased their food budget in response to inflation and in response to the fact that Kenji’s cholesterol was maybe a little high, and wanting to make sure that Kenji ate the right food so that he would stay healthy. 

I really liked the final conversation with Shiro's parents where they talk about how they want to make sure that Kenji is in their will, that they accept him as Shiro’s other half. That they chided him not to fuck things up with Kenji.

NiNi

That they found a columbarium that would have enough space so that Kenji could be with them.

Ben

Right, and Kenji took this as the peace offering it was from Shiro's mom and started thinking about himself as the beloathed daughter-in-law. [laughs]

NiNi

It's so funny because this is basically Shiro's mom saying literally over my dead body, but in a nice way, like. 

[both laugh]

“Over my dead body,” but that's the acceptance? It was just so funny because all the things she's talking about, the columbarium, the inheritance, it's all well after I'm dead. But she's fine with it? Basically? This is the way that she's chosen to accept him. And he immediately understands that and he takes it absolutely in the spirit in which it's meant.

Ben

I love the way that they do it is the only way that Shiro and his family could. “Well, it's very cost effective for us to buy into this together right now. They're having a sale, so.” 

I really like that his parents were very stern with him about it, but they're like, “We're not going to move to the nursing home that's closer to you because it's more expensive. “We will deal with the hassle of being further from you because you're 50 now. We don't know how much longer we're going to be around, but if we're here for a long time, we want to make sure that there's something for you to have to make sure that you're okay as well.” And I liked how Shiro had to learn to accept that from his parents, not as a knock against him for being a bad son, but as for them trying to do right by him as his parents. I thought that was a really significant move from the show, considering how much the idea is that the kids are supposed to put everything they can into taking care of their parents as they get older. I thought it was really inspired for aging parents to be like, “No, we wanna make sure that we are not a burden to you in our final twilight years.”

NiNi

The relationship between Shiro and his parents is so fascinating from the very beginning of the show up until this bit that we've seen so far. Not just in terms of the way that they are learning and growing, and finding ways to accept who their son is, and he in his own way, finding his ways to accept who they are without losing himself. 

The structure of their relationship is also so culturally interesting to me. It just feels very Japanese. I don't know how else to explain it, the way that they deal with each other, the way that his dad never lets Shiro pay for anything for them, just things like that. His parents are so traditional. For a long part of the show, his mother would only wear kimono. It's only later on in the show that she stops wearing kimono all the time.

Ben

It's a really subtle thing with the costuming choice, but every time that she takes a step forward, she's not wearing traditional clothes.

NiNi

The dynamic is also interesting because Kenji's relationship with his family is so different than Shiro's relationship with his family.

Ben

Oh, let's talk about that episode, since you brought up Kenji's mom and sisters.

NiNi

So Kenji is the only son of a single mother, and he has two younger sisters. His family is very comfortable with Kenji being gay, with everything around that. He is very open with his family, he talks to them about Shiro all the time, but still his family have never met Shiro. With all the death-flagging that was going on around this season, his mom was just like. “Oh well, I, I want to meet your Shiro,” and he immediately starts panicking. He's like, “Are you dying?” 

So they have the meet up. Shiro picks this really nice restaurant for them to meet up. He's very considerate and thoughtful about how he chooses the restaurant in terms of what distance they'll have to go, and he wants it to be a nice experience.

Ben

It’s also the restaurant that Oo-sensei took him to the first time when he started working at the firm.

NiNi

Yep, he picks the restaurant with a lot of things in mind, basically. And so they have this lovely meal, and then Kenji's mom explains why she wanted to meet him. A friend of hers, her son died, and she started thinking about what would happen if Kenji died and Kenji's like, “What the hell?” and she's like, “No, no, no. Just listen to me.” But basically, she didn't want it to be a situation where, if anything happened to Kenji, that Shiro would not be able to stand with them as Kenji's family. So she figured at the very least if they met once, then they're not strangers and Shiro has the right, then, to stand with them if anything happens to Kenji, and mourn him as part of the family, basically.

Ben

That was so touching. I legit sobbed after that episode ended. [laughs] I'm getting hot right now thinking about it. That was such an incredible episode. Oh my God.

NiNi

It was so much. Kenji's family is so the opposite of Shiro’s family. They're teasing and they're chattering a mile a minute.

Ben

They're leaving the restaurant and his sisters and trying to take the receipt from Kenji so that they can pay part of their share and he's like, “Go away. Stop it. I'm the oldest. Let me do this.”

NiNi

It's a very different dynamic than Shiro’s family, and it's not one that Shiro’s necessarily entirely comfortable with yet, because he's so much more stoic than Kenji is. But he is starting to lean into it a little bit. He's still kind of on the outside of things in that regard, but they're teasing him and he's doing his little shy smile thing. He's not entirely comfortable with them yet, but you can see how he will possibly get there. I don't think he'll ever be the one who's teasing back, but he will become comfortable with them. You can see it. And that's what Kenji's mom wanted. That's the ball whe wanted to start rolling. She wants Shiro to feel like family with them. 

There's so much of that in this season. This season is just emotional hits after emotional hits in that regard. There's so much about family, and caring for people. Like, thoughtfully caring for people, not just absentmindedly caring for people, which is a big thing for me. Putting thought into how you care about somebody, and how you show that care for somebody, it's a big, big thing for me and something I enjoy seeing.

Ben

I really like how this season made me get super invested in a bunch of heterosexual characters. Like I ended up super invested in Osamu and his desire to become a prosecutorial educator for criminal defense attorneys. That was a big deal for him that he really wanted to take on this educator role, even if it didn't pay well, because it was really important to. 

I got weirdly invested in the sort of flaky hairdresser. The other guy who works at Kenji's shop, and his relationship with his girlfriend who can't cook.

NiNi

Incredible. So incredible. I love that so much.

Ben

There are so many layers to this whole thing.

NiNi

And the fact that you thought it was just a one-off thing, but then later in the season it comes back.

Ben

Oh my God. So, Kenji is invited to hang out with one of his coworkers, and Kenji at first is nervous. Like, “Is this hot young guy trying to get me into his house? I'm a married woman, sir!” and he's super nervous about what the hell is going on? But it's—like his colleague’s really intent on him coming over, and he talks about his girlfriend, about how they didn't work out because she couldn't really cook that well. He didn't like her food, and then one night he just got tired of it and made a really nice pasta, and she got super upset about this because she tries so hard to fill this role that she feels like she's supposed to, but she's just not a good cook. And she's never gotten the experience of someone enjoying her food, and they just didn't work out. 

I'm like, okay, well, that was a really cool story, but it’s a little bit sad. And then five episodes later in episode 9, we get the reveal that he missed her and they tried to work it out. And he tried to teach her how to cook more effectively. And then he decided to settle on baking. Somebody who’s such a stickler for details as her, “salt to taste” as an instruction does not work for her. So she picks up baking and ends up being really good at it, and then she has this moment where she gets to react to the first time of seeing someone smile and enjoy the food she made. And, besties, I ugly cried.

NiNi

It was a Capital M Moment. 

Ben and Nini [in unison]

It was so good! [both laugh]

NiNi

I wept. I wept! It was so beautiful. And you now see that they figured it out. They figured it out through food!

Ben

The biggest thing about What Did You Eat Yesterday? is it is the kindest show.

43:10 - WDYEY is So Gay and Found Family

Ben

What Did You Eat Yesterday? is so explicitly gay. Everything about this show is gay. The fact that Shiro doesn't want to be a super successful, high-powered lawyer is unusual. He does not fit the mold of a traditional Japanese man, despite all of the other things about him. He's just so unusual as a Japanese man that despite all of his attempts to closet himself, he ends up looking weirder to people the longer this goes on. It's so awful for guys like Shiro. 

For Kenji, everybody's gonna clock his ass right away, but Shiro’s not going to get clocked right away. And so often the fact that he doesn't get clocked makes him seem creepy to people. Like, there's that whole moment in the first season with the apprentice lawyer that gets assigned to him for a while, where that interaction ends up kind of a mess because Shiro's misreading signals from her, doesn't want her glomming onto him too much, and ends up accidentally really upsetting the girl by making her think he was trying to hit on her. 

Oo-sensei is like, “Shiro, what are you doing? You've been a bachelor the 20 years I've known you. What the hell is going on? Please do better.” [laughs] And it sucks because he's doing so good, but he won't tell her exactly that. 

Oh my God. Speaking of her. I love her so much. She got Shiro a portable induction burner.

NiNi

I want one. I absolutely want one of those.

Ben

They are so fucking useful. You can cook stuff on your dinner table without worrying that the whole fucking table’s gonna burst into flames. 

She lies to Shiro that she got it as a gift from someone else, and she's just trying to downsize some of her stuff, cause she's realized she's getting old and has too much shit in her house. And so she's like, “Yeah, Shiro, I need you to take care of this for me so that I can get rid of it.” “Well, I guess if I have to do a favor, it would be rude not to accept the gift under these conditions.” I love her so much. She can do no wrong. She is my favorite.

NiNi

She knows him so well. I wouldn't be surprised if she has already dialed in to what's going on.

Ben

She absolutely knows.

NiNi

I think she knows he's gay.

Ben

She also knows that he eats with someone. She asked very politely in the first season if he has someone to share meals with, and Shiro said yes, and she just said very good. That was very tactful, ma'am. I approve. 

Let’s talk about Kyoko a little bit, because we haven't talked about Kayoko much.

NiNi

I was just about to say all the women around Shiro are so great and Kayoko is definitely one of the greatest. Sorry, before we get into her, I just love the way that she ran into Kenji at the grocery store and acted like she was meeting BTS or something. [laughs]

Ben

She was so excited to meet Kenji, and Kenji's like, “Huh? What do you want?” I also like that Kenji was low-key kind of bitchy [laughs] at the grocery store with this weird woman rolling up on him. We see the version of Kenji where he is home with the man he loves and is loud about it all the time, or we see him at work where he is ON for his clientele. It was so refreshing to see Kenji as just another dude in a grocery store being like, “Why the fuck is this woman looking at me like that?”

NiNi

[Laughs] It was so delightful. I love Kayoko as a character. She doesn't pop up a whole lot, but every time she does, it's truly a delight. 

Her main story in this season is she and her husband finally, finally getting to meet Kenji, and they're both so excited about it. And it's this whole event. When Shiro and Kenji go over there, Kayoko’s husband is talking Kenji's ear off and wants to know everything. Everything! He wants to know how they met. He wants to know everything about them. They're just so enthused about their friend's partner, because they know that this is somebody that Shiro loves, and they love Shiro. So they want to love whoever Shiro loves.

Ben

It's really fascinating with the way some of these dynamics play out. Kohinata and Shiro have been friends with Kayoko and her husband for years. Kohinata even longer. But they've never met either of their partners. Shiro has talked so much about Kenji that they feel they know him. But it's notable that it seems like there's this sort of line they can't cross and say, “I would like to meet him.” There appears to be some sort of etiquette line that everyone's toeing here, where they want to meet Kenji. It's impolite to ask. It means that there's some sort of gap in their closeness. 

But they are just so happy that Kenji's finally showing up. They have this little dinner party together. And what is his name? Let me pull up his name real quick. Tominaga-san. He is so enamored with Kenji. He is resting his hand on his chin. He is batting his eyelashes at Kenji, he is like, “Please tell us. Tell us the story of how you met Shiro.” 

It was fun for us as the audience because Kenji immediately begins retelling the story we heard Kenji say to Wataru and Kohinata in season one, and so we know the story, and so we can roll our eyes with Shiro when he says he looks like Kaiba Ryu again. And Shiro’s like, “Okay, whatever, bro.” 

[both laugh]

City Hunter. It was so much fun. 

One of the things I really like this season: we got a sense of the relationship between Wataru and Kohinata, that Wataru had a crush on Kohinata when Wataru was still very much a minor, and Kohinata basically refused to acknowledge it for like five to eight years because he thought it was inappropriate. That Wataru was so gay that he was basically disowned by his own family. That's a really painful thing for the two of them. I was really glad that we got some insight into those details. I also like that Shiro and Kenji were doing the math on their relationship and they were like, “Wait, hold the fuck up, bro.”

NiNi

They were like, “Hold the phone. What did you? What?” He's like, “No, no, no. Nothing happened until he was old enough.” And they're all like, “But still!”

[both laugh]

That is something that felt very gay to me.

Ben

That was very real. I was like, “Ohh, gurl.”

NiNi

I have friends who are with people that they met when they were in high school, who were much older and they're still with them now. Now that they're in their late 30s and 40s it’s not so scandalous, but they've been together a long time.

Ben

Yeah, absolutely.

NiNi

That felt very gay to me.

50:54 - Let’s Talk About The Food

NiNi

This show is so good! It's so enjoyable, and we haven't even started talking about the food yet. Oh my God. The food on this show.

Ben

What are some of the favorite things you've seen made on the show?

NiNi

Mmmm…Shiro did something. He made, I think it was a version of khao man gai with chicken thighs in the rice cooker. I looked at that and I immediately thought, “I have got to try that.” That and the sushi pizza.

Ben

I have made Shiro's lasagna.

NiNi

How was it?

Ben

It's very good. His steps are really traditional. I think that's the big thing I learned when I've been copying some of his stuff. Shiro’s cooking food that you would find in like a basic recipe you would find somewhere else. What Shiro’s really good at is balancing his time for all the dishes he needs to make so that you have all of the four or five side dishes he wants to have every time you sit down, which I don't like to do. That's too many dishes. [laughs]

NiNi

That's very much Japanese cooking, though.

Ben

Five different bowls per person. Hell to the no. I am a Creole food home cook. It's all going in one fucking pot.

NiNi

[laughs] They do some one pot stuff sometimes, though. It's really good.

Ben

They do! Like, they have curry.

NiNi

They have curry and the same thing, the same khao man gai that I was just talking about as well. That was all done in the rice cooker, basically.

Ben

I liked that pasta that Kayoko made. I haven't made it yet, but I think about that one every time it's hot. I really liked that slapped together sushi that Shiro put together when Kenji's friends were coming over.

NiNi

That was good. I am also, like Shiro, not good at hot oil, so I paid very close attention to the tempura recipe to see if maybe I would have the wherewithal and the bravery to try it at some point.

Ben

I like that Shiro, despite being really determined about his own skills, how easily he collaborates with other people in the kitchen. I thought Shiro would be the kind of cook who was difficult to cook around, but he shares space in his kitchen so easily with Kayoko and Kohinata and Kenji when they help him out. Shiro admits that he's not very comfortable cooking with oil. Like, he's not very good at doing tempura, and he let Kayoko teach him when they hung out again. I like that he's willing to learn from other people. 

I liked in the movie when Kohinata and Wataru's fridge went out, and they brought a bunch of food over to them, they had like a mini feast and brought some stuff for them to save. They invited Kayoko over to help them make some stuff. In this season, they were like, we really want to get these special type of cheesy pancakes and Kohinata and he are just working through the recipe together, which let us have a really cool moment where Wataru seems like he's also starting to mellow out a little bit. He's just vibing with Kenji and they're gossiping about their boyfriends with each other.

NiNi

I love that demon twink.

Ben

[Laughs] He is a demon twink. He's like, “Is Shiro turning 50?” He convinces his well meaning rich boyfriend to send like a whole party package to them with a big ass balloon saying congratulations on 50.

NiNi

I don't know how well meaning Kohinata was? Because in that same episode, where they're making the pancakes, he says, “I'm so sorry about the 50 balloon,” and he looks Shiro dead in the eye in this kind of way. [laughs]

Ben

But that's not Kohinata being aggressive. That's Kohinata being alarmingly earnest. He very much needs to see you forgive him in that moment. It's the same thing that happened when Wataru kicked him out with the clams thing.

NiNi

The way that I read it, because Kohinata is very into his fitness, right? He looks good. He's very toned and muscular. He exercises a lot. He's got a great body. He doesn't look anything like whatever age he is. And while Shiro looks good for his age, Shiro does not look like Kohinata. And Kohinata’s very proud of his body. He shows it off, like the things that he wears, and all those kinds of things. So I just thought there was just him being a little bitchy as well, but in a nice way because he's Kohinata.

Ben

I’m gonna think about that. I’m gonna rewatch it and see how I feel about it with that in mind. I don't think that's what he's doing. I don't think that's who he is, but I’m gonna think about it.

NiNi

But yeah, it's not just the food. The food always looks good and I'm always like, “I gotta try that. I gotta try that. I gotta try that.” But just the process of watching them cook in this show, the way that it's filmed, it feels very comfortable. It feels like you could actually make these meals. It doesn't feel over complicated. It doesn't feel stressful. It feels like just this calm time in the kitchen and it makes you feel like you could do it, too.

Ben

We've talked to Japanese friends of ours that mention that the food Shiro makes is actually very simple and normal for Japanese people. He's not doing anything spectacular with the food, but that's also, I think, part of the charm. He's doing something really normal really earnestly every day as a way to let his partner know that he still matters to him.

56:36 - Final Thoughts (And A Moment to Drag Nobu)

Ben

This is my favorite show, and it will probably always end up being my favorite show. I say a lot that as much as I like BL, I like the silly little stories about gay boys falling in love with each other. I really do appreciate stories about gay boys staying together. That's why I'm really glad that we're seeing more sequels. We talked about this in an earlier episode this year, I believe, how we feel about sequels, and I do want them to keep trying to tell stories about gay people trying to make their lives work. I really like that this show keeps coming back and has more things to say—that it feels like everyone grew between both shows. 

By the end of season 2, we know that Shiro and Kenji have been together for at least eight years. I really like how they feel older. It's been almost five years since the first show released, and Nishijima and Uchino have changed in that time, and it was really cool to see the two of them exploring what it means to get older through these characters as well. There is room in this genre to tell stories about beloved couples growing together, and I am so glad that we have such a high bar of a show to refer to when we tell people we want that.

NiNi

You're talking about having this show to refer to, and refer to it you do, sir.

Ben

I do.

[both laugh]

NiNi

One of the things that I really enjoyed about this show is watching other shows come behind it in the same spirit, but not trying to do the exact same thing. Two in particular that really have felt like they came off the spirit of this show were Our Dining Table and She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. I want to see more shows in this general vein.

Ben

We called episode 6 of Tokyo in April Is… the What Did You Eat Yesterday? homage episode. There's a moment in I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama that we called the What Did You Eat Yesterday? moment where we thought that one actor was channeling Uchino's performance as Kenji when he was enjoying the curry that he was eating.

NiNi

As you said that, watching Kenji eat the food is almost as much fun as watching Shiro prepare the food.

Ben

We got some manga insights from our friend, Turtles. We were hoping to bring her on for this episode, but she's so busy. I love you, girl, but we gotta find a better time to work with you. She talked about how when they first moved in together—they didn't capture this in the show—Kenji was not as animated about enjoying Shiro's food, and Shiro got a little bit stressed about that, because Shiro's trying to communicate that he cares about Kenji through the food and he wasn't receiving a lot of feedback for that. Kenji picks up on this and starts being more animated and more forthright about enjoying the food because he knows it's important to Shiro. 

Speaking of partners recognizing what's important to Shiro, let's talk about that motherfucker that Shiro used to live with.

NiNi

Oh my God. Nobu. Oh my God, what the hell?

Ben

I hate that man so much.

NiNi

He's so cruel. It is shitty behavior—absolutely shitty behavior—to not acknowledge and be grateful for somebody cooking for you. I don't care if you like the food or not. If somebody puts effort into cooking for you, you at the very least say thank you.

Ben

And when you use a shared kitchen, you clean up after yourself, goddamn.

NiNi

Cannot stand that character. The actor that they got to play him was so good, though, I really hated his face. Like—

[both laugh]

Ben

It’s the same episode we talked about earlier with the washing machine continually getting clogged and not draining properly. This happened years ago when Nobu was still living with Shiro. Nobu didn't offer to help at all. He was just like, “Clean this up right away before you cause problems for the people underneath us and they want us to pay for it.” And it's like, bro, this is his fucking house. And then he's like, “Whatever, I'm leaving. I'm gonna get me some chicken.” And I'm like, brah, you going to Popeyes right now? Come on now.

NiNi

And you're not even going to the Popeyes for the two of us.

Ben

That's the thing, too! It's not like he realized that Shiro was gonna be dealing with a pretty serious headache, and he's like, “Well, I'm gonna go get some cleaning supplies, and I'm gonna pick up some chicken on the way back.” He comes back like, like, “Oh, so you're still dealing with this. I'm hungry. You need to make some food, too.” I hate that man, so much.

NiNi

It really gives you an understanding, though, of how much Shiro has grown, because part of Shiro’s growing has been learning to love and accept himself. And you could tell in that flashback that Shiro did not love himself, and how much Kenji becoming a part of his life has encouraged him to love himself. 

One of the things that I noticed about the flashback with Nobu is how he shrank. He didn't argue with him. He was thinking things in his head, but he didn't argue with Nobu. He just kind of shrank away, and he would never do that with Kenji. He will always fight it out with Kenji, and I really appreciate that. Not only does he feel comfortable in this relationship, but he is also becoming more comfortable with himself. I thought that was a really neat sort of juxtaposition to see how Shiro used to be and how far he's come.

Ben

What I want to reiterate, after musing on it so much, is how genuinely special it is to have an episodic show about the lives of gay people in our list of shows to recommend to people.

NiNi

You know I'm not so much on the recommends as you are, but I will sit and watch this show anytime, any day, anywhere, starting at any point. I will watch one episode. I will watch seven episodes. I will skip around in time. I'll watch the movie. Because for me it's about just sitting and having that moment with these characters that I love. It's like a warm hug. I like this show, I love this show. Long may it reign. Hopefully they come back again. Not too far away. 

If I'm talking about a thesis statement of how I feel about this show, it is that What Did You Eat Yesterday? is a show about just going along through life with the person that you love. And that's all it is. There's nothing more to it. It's very simple, but in that simplicity there is so much.

Ben

I really hope we get to talk about this show again. I really hope that Uchino and Nishijima and friends are able to come back together for this show again. I will totally understand and respect if they can't, or don't. But I really hope they do! [laughs]

NiNi

I hope that we get What Did You Eat Yesterday? episodes every other year for the next decade.

Ben

If you have not yet watched What Did You Eat Yesterday? It is available on GagaOOlala. Please go watch it. I hope you enjoy it. If you are a member of our pod team and you are reading this transcript—[NiNi laughs]—and you've still not watched this show, I am begging you, please watch this show.

NiNi

She's gonna get a kick out of that. 

[both laugh]

Right, so that is going to wrap us up on Om-nom-nom, our What Did You Eat Yesterday? episode. We out. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.

[potterandpromises]

OMITB 3x07 (THE THEO EPISODE) liveblog:

Was not expecting a new scene with Bunny of all things.

Uma kleptomaniac arc (this is like, the first thing we’ve really learned about her and it’s been three seasons.)

Uma trying to bond with Charles by joking-but-not-really about him murdering Bunny.

Theo now? Theo now!

I find it a tad unbelievable that Mabel didn’t know the sign for murder. It’s immediately forgiven though. (It was a decent way to establish their dynamic and her level of ASL.)

Theo telling Mabel that no one was closer to Ben then Ben’s brother when he likely doesn't even know he has a brother.

It’s fascinating to me that Mabel thought Theo might know Dickie.

I’m sorry, did Clif say, “goddamn mother.”

Charles and the replacement charleses.

I think that’s the first Gut Milk mention all season. They now come in blue raspberry, apparently.

I like how the writers were thinking up ways to bring Theo into the storyline and were like, what if he's just a giant fucking nerd?

(Also I watched that nose boop like twenty times when I prewatched One Killer Question on mute for the Crumbs.)

I really love the scene where Theo is feeding Mabel lines about CoBro 2.

That’s right Charles, close that window. Nothing good ever came from listening to music through your window.

I am not the target audience for Oliver's theater storyline. Bring me chekhov's heart attack.

Dickie adoption confirmation (also I like Dickie so far, he seems like a good guy.)

Um, is that ‘moron’ Theo spending daddy’s money?

Theo’s so attuned to Mabel oh my goooodddd.

Overall, I like Mabel and Theo’s updated dynamic. I like how they try and how their communication isn’t perfect.

Bloody Mabel podcast? Absolutely not. I feel like this just shows how wrong Tobert is for Mabel.

I pondered how the Tobert + Theo introduction would go. I knew he would know Theo from the podcast. I could’ve never guessed he would be a literal fan.

(Also how Tobert said he: “picked up on..”)

Unexpected sexual tension.

I can’t help but notice that this episode takes place in the building 👍

Charles and Oliver reunion via horse metaphor <3

Charles and Oliver drinking gut milk like it’s the good old days.

The podcast is back baby.

I’m so looking forward to more of whatever Theo-Mabel-Tobert have going on. I didn’t expect that alliance to last more then an episode.

Oh, so Dickie brought the hankie. Kind of sad (or suspicious? if he was hiding his identity) that Uma didn’t even realize Dickie was Ben’s brother.

Attempts to capitalize on bloody Mabel have not exactly gone over well before…

Bonus aftershow liveblog:

“There’s a different kind of intimacy, a different kind of home, when she’s with Theo.” Catch me screaming about this.

Okay, all this stuff about growth and his comment about Tobert and shedding labels. They are implying that Theo is queer, right?

This spin the wheel game has taken a sad turn…

But also the idea that Will is both Oliver and Teddy’s son and Theo is somehow also both Teddy and Oliver's son.

[bohemian-nights]

i hate what they did to laena on the show. not only has her importance to daemon been reduced to "second best" but also her death was unnecessarily brutal and i hated it from the first time i saw it. after all, at least in the book, laena tried to do what she loved one last time: fly and daemon really seemed to care about her and grieve for her death.

I have a feeling they wanted to make laena su*cide look like "death of a dragonrider" and her agenda, for rhaenyra to look badass when sunfyre burn and eat her. the small part she had seems to exist only to enhance rhaenyra. Hotd isn't even in season 2 yet and it already makes me angry, Got at least took 6 seasons for me to realize the mistakes..

👆🏽The last paragraph is why they really did it. No one in their right mind thinks committing suicide by dragon fire(how many suicides do you see where someone is lighting themselves on fire) is empowering. It’s something a desperate woman who’s out of her mind would do. Even the actress who played older Laena (Nanna Blondell) originally questioned why Sara Hess put that in there(there’s an hour-long podcast on YouTube where she talks about her role as Laena).

They reworked Laena’s story just to make Queenie’s death look better in the end. And the thing about it is it’s still a wasted effort because Rhaenyra doesn’t voluntarily kill herself.

She literally is on the run with no money(she has to sell her jewels/crown), no powerful friends who will come to her aid(cause she locked Corlys up and went after Nettles so Daemon left her a**), and no dragon(cause the small folk she didn’t think were a threat where actually a threat).

She’s going back to Dragonstone thinking it’s a safe place and she can regroup there, but her home has been overtaken by the enemy. She’s lost everything and then she loses her life at the hands of her crippled brother and his crippled dragon🤣

I’m only laughing cause her stans really think she’s a bad b*tch when she’s not. She’s a broke b*tch(in spirit and in “reality”).

This isn’t dying like a “dragon rider”(the concept doesn’t exist in book canon since her dumba** fans love pointing to the books which never support their delusional arguments by the way) this is dying like the flop she:

(I do feel sorry that little Aegon had to witness that, but even her last boy did nothing to immortalize his mother’s memory. Queenie flopped hard🤷🏽‍♀️)

At this point, I’ve been counting the first season as a trial run. I’ve seen some shows that had a meh first season(only the second half of HOTD was really terrible to me) but turned around to have decent other seasons. However, the fact that they cut the number of episodes plus the striking situation and the fact that they didn’t fully clean house with the showrunner shake up 😬

Laena was unfortunately a victim of sh*tty biased writing, but there’s always hope that her girls get the storylines they deserve.

[911bts]

Can you explain what you mean when you say it appears that 9-1-1 has a different filming process than other shows from what you have seen?

I know it’s not confirmed and is more of an observation but I’m curious. If you can’t or are uncomfortable I understand.

On a podcast, once Tim talked about them not having a traditional writers' room (the podcast name is slipping me, but it's the one Superman one)

They often have 2 film crews and film multiple episodes with different actors in different locations at the same time (I get so many comments about how I'm wrong when I talk about this every season so I'm assuming other shows don't do it much.)

[utilitycaster]

If you had to make an elevator pitch for people deciding about watching Midst, what would you say? I’m seeing more and more talk about it but I feel like I don’t have a good idea of its plot/genre/tone still.

Honestly I still think my suggestion here is best: listen to the first three episodes. They are a little over an hour in total and free, and it's a podcast so you can do it while doing chores or something if you're really worried about spending an hour of time doing something you might not like. That will establish genre, tone, main characters, and even a core element of the overarching plot better than I can for minimal investment.

I feel like the Midst elevator pitch on its actual website is the best one:

Midst is an immersive, semi-improvised, sci-fantasy podcast recounted by a trio of playfully omniscient, mysterious, and unreliable narrators.  Engage your imagination in this highly original setting using a unique storytelling style, distinctive audio, and lightly animated visual accompaniments to help ground you in this bizarre, space-western world. 

Like, that gives you the genre (sci-fantasy/space-western; the mention of bizarre is accurate and I'd throw in a 'new weird' if the combo of science fantasy and space western didn't tip you off), and the tone (three playfully omniscient unreliable narrators).

As for plot, if I had to give it in the briefest of terms: a small frontier planet is sold to a society in which virtue and wealth are considered the same thing, and then disaster immediately strikes. Season 1 is the world-building and lead-in; Season 2 is the fallout.