#Ruin SAMS Theory

[alexandraisyes]

A Ruin and Eclipse Analysis

A comprehensive guide on what I think is going on with Ruin and Eclipse

Disclaimer: This is just my thoughts, theories, and analysis compiled together and will end with what I think is happening as of current.

So first and foremost, Eclipse.

How is he back?

Theory 1: Eclipse's Restoration by KC

Scenario: Eclipse, after being blasted from Sun's mind, ends up in the woods and shuts down. KC, living in the forest, discovers him and begins the repair process. KC's Role: KC, being knowledgeable in magic and star power, has the capability to repair Eclipse. The potential for Eclipse to be made of non-mechanical materials is raised, given KC's expertise.

Theory 2: Ruin's Involvement

A. Eclipse's Backup Ruin's Discovery: Ruin raids Moon's computer and finds 'encrypted code left by Eclipse.' The possibility arises that Eclipse left a backup of his AI in the computer. Ruin's Construction: Ruin, a tech-savvy character, might have built Eclipse using the encrypted code, similar to how he created Bloodmoon. He could selectively choose information to shape Eclipse's identity.

B. Reconstruction of Eclipse Ruin's Connection to Eclipse's Past: Ruin, having lived in Moon's old bunkers and visited Eclipse's locations, reconstructs Eclipse. He restores the AI, potentially using a backup, and integrates commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death. Creator's Involvement: The Creator, likely monitoring data flow in the Plex, could be aware of Ruin's actions. The Creator might have interfered or tampered with Eclipse's reconstruction.

C. Newly Minted Ruin isn't healed: A still corrupted Ruin could have been working on Eclipse in order to gain a weapon against his perceived enemies.

Theory 3: Creator's Role

A. Our Creator The Search for KC: The Creator actively hunts down KC, leading to the discovery of Eclipse's repaired chassis. The Creator takes Eclipse, tampering with its data, catching it up to speed. Rebuilding Eclipse: The Creator might have completely rebuilt Eclipse similar to how Ruin reconstructed Bloodmoon. The process involves rebuilding the animatronic, updating it with current data, and possibly altering its memories.

B. The Council. Solar's World: Solar's Creator planned to make a new Daycare Attendant due to the mental deterioration of the current ones. He created the body that Solar currently uses. He is described as extremely manipulative and the trend for Creators is that they are evil geniuses. Beyond the creation of Solar's body and the plan for a new DCA, there is little information about Solar's Creator. It's unclear whether Solar's Creator is alive or dead. Communication Among Creators: Creators from different universes communicate with each other. Assuming Solar's Creator is alive, it is plausible that they are part of the Creator Council, as mentioned in discussions about creators from different universes communicating. This opens up the possibility of Solar's Creator passing along any potential remnants or data of Eclipse to the broader Creator network. Eclipse's Death in Solar's Universe: Eclipse's demise in Solar's universe raises questions about the fate of his remnants, especially considering the potential fluid nature of his body due to star power. Considering Eclipse's body's fluid nature and the possibility of it being made of nanos using star power, there's a far-fetched idea that even remnants or collected data could be significant.

Overall Thoughts

Candidates for Bringing Eclipse Back: KC, Ruin, and the Creator remain potential candidates for bringing Eclipse back. Interconnected Roles: The roles of these characters seem interconnected, with Ruin and the Creator potentially influencing or obstructing each other's actions. Cloud-Based Backup System: The possibility of a cloud-based backup system for AIs, as seen with Moon and Sun's backups, is considered in theories involving Eclipse's restoration.

Is this our Eclipse? Is this a new Eclipse?

Going Through the Motions

Eclipse's Audible Confusion and Odd Behavior:

Observation: Eclipse exhibits confusion when Sun and Moon discuss his past explosion. He also appears to have regressed in character growth, expressing slight distress over the absence of the star and showing disinterest in Astral Bodies and Lunar. Actor Analogy: Eclipse's words seem scripted, and he appears to be acting out a role that doesn't align with his previous character development. This raises questions about the authenticity of his memories and emotions.

Potential Explanations for Eclipse's Confusion:

New Eclipse with Implanted Memories: Possibility: Eclipse may not be the original, but a new animatronic programmed with memories and data of the deceased Eclipse. Reasoning: Eclipse questions his own actions, suggesting a discrepancy between his expected behavior and his current demeanor. Someone could have programmed him to act in a certain way.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse could be the original, but his code might have been tampered with, triggering actions contrary to his natural behavior. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his own actions indicates a potential external influence on his behavior.

Amnesia or Trauma from Death: Possibility: Eclipse might be the Eclipse that died in Solar's universe, experiencing amnesia or trauma from his demise. Reasoning: Traumatic events like death could lead to repressed memories or amnesia. Eclipse's hesitation to move on after he was presumably killed should be considered.

Origins of Eclipse's Potential Manipulation:

Creators or Skilled Individuals: Possibility: Several characters possess the capability to manipulate Eclipse's memories and code, including the Creator, Ruin, or other skilled individuals. Reasoning: Eclipse's complexity and connection to the digital network make him susceptible to manipulation by those with expertise. As does the potential of backups that said network would have been feeding his data to.

A Summary of Previously Discussed Ruin Analyses

Redeemed

Observations: Ruin claims to be less tech-savvy, showcasing slower repair skills, and displays skittish behavior. This suggests a potential decline in intelligence and increased timidity compared to his previous capabilities. Hypothesis: This theory proposes that the current Ruin is a reflection of his state before the virus, showcasing lowered intelligence and heightened skittishness.

Jekyll and Hyde

Speculation: While less likely, the theory considers the possibility of the virus evolving into a separate AI, akin to KC and Eclipse. The blocks of code might have developed a distinct personality, creating a duality in Ruin's behavior. Reasoning: The concept is explored by comparing Ruin's situation to instances where other characters evolved from code blocks, like KC and Eclipse.

Actor

Acting Possibility: This theory suggests that Ruin might be acting, and the virus's removal only affected superficial aspects. The claim is that Ruin's personality flip-flop is a result of his acting skills. Analysis: The argument stems from observations that the virus should not have changed Ruin's core personality. Instances where Ruin's behavior seems out of character are attributed to acting.

Partly Healed

Antidote Limitation: This theory posits that the antidote removed the oppression factor of the virus but left behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness. The result is a partly healed Ruin displaying polarized behavior. Rationale: The idea is based on the assumption that Ruin's traits, such as cunningness, were inherent to him even before the virus. The combination of pre-virus traits and lingering virus effects leads to an off-kilter personality.

Merged

Integration Concept: This theory proposes that the antidote didn't entirely remove the virus but caused it to merge with Ruin's main AI. This could result in a blend of Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with the motives and reasoning developed during the virus. Comparison to Theories Three and Four: The merged theory combines elements of acting and partial healing. Ruin retains memories from the virus but behaves as if he doesn't, potentially using this to gain advantages.

Comprehensive Analysis/Theory: Eclipse's Resurrection and Ruin's Pretense

Eclipse's Resurrection:

Eclipse's Backup: Ruin's Discovery: Ruin uncovers the 'encrypted code left by Eclipse' in Moon's computer, suggesting the possibility of Eclipse leaving a backup of his AI. Ruin's Reconstruction: Utilizing his tech skills and knowledge of Eclipse's past locations, Ruin reconstructs Eclipse's AI, potentially using a backup. The process involves integrating commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse might be the original, but his code could have been tampered with, leading to behavior contrary to his natural tendencies. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his actions hints at an external influence on his behavior.

Ruin's Complex State and Pretense - Three Thoughts:

Writer's Note, organized from strongest to weakest in the writer's opinion

Acting, Manipulation, and Strategic Goals

Acting Prowess and Strategic Manipulation: Acting Skills: Ruin's well-documented acting skills, coupled with his love for games and manipulative nature, form a foundation for the theory that he might be pretending to be cured. Strategic Pretense: The theory posits that Ruin's post-cured state is a calculated act, utilizing his intelligence and cunning to strategically manipulate situations and achieve specific goals.

Acting Possibility and Superficial Aspects: Personality Flip-Flop: Ruin's observed personality flip-flop is attributed to acting skills, suggesting that the removal of the virus only affected superficial aspects of his behavior. Analysis: The theory proposes that Ruin is putting on an act, deliberately manipulating his behavior to achieve specific goals. This act may have implications related to Eclipse's resurrection and other underlying motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Manipulation in Eclipse's Resurrection: Ruin's pretense aligns with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection. His strategic manipulation could involve influencing Eclipse's actions or shaping the narrative to further specific objectives related to Eclipse, the Creator, or broader plot elements. Exploring Motives: By considering Ruin's acting as a calculated move, the narrative gains depth as it prompts exploration into Ruin's motives. Questions arise about the true extent of his post-cured state and the underlying goals he aims to achieve. Psychological Dynamics: The nuanced interplay of acting and manipulation introduces a layer of psychological dynamics between Ruin and other characters. Understanding the motives behind the act becomes crucial in unraveling the evolving complexities within the storyline.

Ruin's Integrated State: Merging Virus and Baseline Functions

Integration Concept: Virus Merger: The antidote doesn't completely eradicate the virus but facilitates its integration with Ruin's main AI. Blended State: This integration results in a unique blend, combining Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with motives and reasoning developed during the virus.

Advantages through Memories: Retained Memories: Ruin retains memories from the virus, providing him with a reservoir of strategic information. Strategic Utilization: Despite retaining memories, Ruin behaves as if he doesn't remember certain events, potentially using this selective amnesia strategically.

Utilization in the Narrative: Hybrid Functionality: Ruin's integrated state introduces a hybrid functionality that influences his decision-making and interactions. The narrative gains complexity as it explores how the merged elements impact his thought processes. Strategic Amnesia: The concept of strategic amnesia becomes a focal point, allowing Ruin to selectively utilize memories from the virus for advantageous situations. This introduces an element of unpredictability in his actions. Plot Intricacies: The blended state contributes to plot intricacies, offering opportunities for narrative twists and character development. The interplay between Ruin's baseline functions and virus-induced motives adds layers to the evolving storyline.

Ruin's Partly Healed State: Antidote Limitation and Polarized Behavior

Antidote Limitation: Oppression Factor Removal: The antidote is effective in removing the oppression factor of the virus that influenced Ruin's behavior. Residual Elements: However, it leaves behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness within Ruin's psychological framework.

Polarized Behavior: Partly Healed State: Ruin's state post-antidote is described as partly healed, indicating that not all aspects of the virus were eradicated. Combination of Traits: The partly healed state results in polarized behavior, where pre-virus traits combine with lingering virus effects, creating a nuanced psychological landscape for Ruin.

Utilization in the Narrative: Character Complexity: Ruin's partly healed state introduces complexity to his character, showcasing a blend of his original traits and remnants of the virus. This dynamic adds depth to his interactions and motivations. Strategic Decision-Making: Understanding the polarized behavior allows for a more nuanced exploration of Ruin's decision-making processes. It raises questions about how he navigates situations, leveraging both pre-existing traits and remnants of the virus to achieve specific goals. Interplay with Other Characters: The polarized behavior contributes to the intricate interplay between Ruin and other characters, impacting alliances, conflicts, and the overall trajectory of the narrative.

Motivation for Pretending: Desire for Creator's Demise

Pre-Cure Motivation:

Long-standing Desire: Before the supposed cure, Ruin harbored a deep-seated desire for the Creator's death, showcasing a motive that persisted even during the virus-influenced phase. Persistent Goal: The existence of this pre-cure motivation implies an enduring goal that could continue to shape Ruin's actions.

Post-Cure Manipulation: Utilizing Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state serves as a tool for manipulation. By pretending to be cured, he strategically navigates situations, potentially working towards the long-standing goal of eliminating the Creator. Strategic Advantage: Ruin's pretended cure is seen as a means to an end, providing him with a strategic advantage in influencing events and furthering his motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Continuity of Motives: The motivation for the Creator's demise establishes a narrative thread that carries over from Ruin's pre-cure state. This continuity adds depth to his character and contributes to ongoing plot developments. Strategic Plot Advancement: Ruin's pretended cured state becomes a tool for strategic plot advancement. The narrative gains momentum as Ruin's actions, influenced by his desire for the Creator's demise, impact the unfolding events. Interplay with Eclipse's Resurrection: The motivation for eliminating the Creator may intertwine with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection, creating a complex web of character motivations and plot dynamics.

Ruin's Connection to the Creator and Eclipse's Kidnapping:

Convenient Circumstances: Questionable Authenticity: The circumstances surrounding Ruin's knowledge of the Creator and his seemingly pre-meditated capture by Eclipse raise doubts about the authenticity of Ruin's claimed cured state. Narrative Suspense: The questionable authenticity adds an element of narrative suspense, prompting exploration into Ruin's true motives and the extent of his influence on unfolding events.

Influence on Eclipse's Actions: Unexplained Kidnapping: Eclipse's unexplained decision to kidnap Ruin, coupled with Ruin's knowledge of the Creator, suggests a potential link between Ruin's actions and Eclipse's choices. Manipulation Possibility: The hints at potential manipulation through triggered commands or pre-meditated actions introduce an intriguing layer to the narrative, raising questions about the nature of Eclipse's motivations.

Inconsistency in Memory Claims: Post-Cure Memory Claims: Ruin asserts having no memories from his time infected with the virus. However, his knowledge and comments about Sun and Moon's Creator appear inconsistent with this claim. Suspicion and Incongruity: The discrepancy raises suspicions about the veracity of Ruin's memory loss, suggesting a potential pretense.

Pre-Meditated Scenario for Creator's Disposal:

Ease of Manipulation: Facilitated by Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state creates an environment conducive to manipulating events with greater ease. Strategic Advantage: The pretense enhances Ruin's strategic advantage, allowing him to navigate situations more effectively and influence key characters.

Potential for Creator's Disposal: Tailored Setup: The setup, involving Ruin's pretended cured state and Eclipse's actions, appears tailored for the manipulation of events leading towards the disposal of the Creator. Utilizing Eclipse as a Tool: Ruin's manipulation of events could involve utilizing Eclipse as a tool in a pre-meditated scenario aimed at eliminating the Creator.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Plot Development: The pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal adds layers to the strategic development of the plot. Ruin's actions, driven by his desire for the Creator's demise, become a driving force in the narrative. Character Manipulation: The theory introduces a dynamic where Ruin, through his pretended cured state, manipulates key characters, particularly Eclipse. The narrative explores the impact of this manipulation on character motivations and plot progression. Unveiling Motives: The unraveling of Ruin's motives and the execution of a pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal become pivotal narrative arcs, promising revelations and suspense.

Conclusion:

This is, again, just a collection of theories, analyses, and thoughts on the current developments of Ruin and Eclipse. My brain hurts. I love uh, feedback on my thoughts. Let me know if you agree, disagree, etc.

Want to join the conversation or see my thought process in real time? Well, you're in luck, we have a thread on the Sun and Moon/Security Breach Show Server where we talk about the thoughts in my silly little brain and people ask me questions about said thoughts.

If you made it to the end comment/reblog with the word Dorito.

[thorns-and-rosewings]

Okay so it's theory time...

I think that Eclipse is going to try and bring back Solar via magic means. He's clearly up to something and it's not initially clear what. But if Moon cannot figure out how to undo Solars dimensional collapse via scientific means, magical means might be the only shot they have with that.

But my inner alchemist is saying that to do that he'd need a sacrifice.

One life for a life. He'd probably offer himself up with the full intention of dying. I think one thing that we can say is that Eclipse DOES care. And probably more than that he knows he isn't wanted, the universe is happier place without him. Puppet even said that exact thing to him recently.

But it would be something that would make all of the Celestial family see him differently. As he really is just a sad, lonely soul who never got the help he desperately needed... And as Ruin has said today, he's essentially a photocopy of Eclipse. He isn't the real one and that's gotta hurt like hell to know.

But... I don't think HE'S going to be the one who dies...

I think that right before the sacrifice he is ready to make, Frank will step in and exchange Eclipse for someone else...

I think he will put in one of the Bloodtwins...

Now I fully believe that Stitchwraith is going to separate the twins, yes, but separation doesn't mean death... But Frank has a score to settle. So however the twins are separated, Frank will do Frank things and obtain the captured Bloodtwin. To which he sacrifices in order to bring back Solar, but also give Eclipse a genuine chance to change and have a life. As everyone will have seen that there was something in him that was willing to die to bring back the one they all loved.

It gives Frank the ability to right a wrong. As Bloodmoon killed his lover, but now one of them will be used to resurrect someone who was taken from his family too soon...

This will be incredibly bad news for Bloodmoon, but an interesting route things could take for the rest of the show.

A life for a life...

[milkyrrr]

Doubt

"SO IT WAS YOU?!" Moon clenched his fingers on the thin metal neck with special fury, lifting the Ruin high above the ground.

"Ngh, l-let, me-, tell-, ngh..." he answered brokenly, helplessly swinging his legs in the air in an attempt to find support. Due to the difference in height and strength, he could not resist, only clinging to other people's hands to loosen his grip.

"Moon, you're overdoing it." Solar growled, crossing his arms over his chest. He was on edge too. He was also very, very angry that he was being used as a damn "model" in order to resurrect Eclipse. But now Moon was really overdoing it with aggression.

"I don't care, I'm going to squeeze his neck until it breaks and this fucking psycho dies to hell!" Moon shouted, without even turning to the interlocutor.

"Moon, I'm warning you..."

"I don't care! That piece of shit came back because of him! The only thing I fixed turned out to be a problem again! Isn't it wonderful, huh, Ruin? Have you achieved what you wanted?! Did you want me to not hold back my emotions? So get it, get it to the fullest, you, fucking masochist-"

"That's enough." Solar, approaching them a couple of steps away, abruptly pushed the Moon away, standing between them. Moon clenched his fists, watching Ruin, coughing, slide down the wall, trying to come to his senses and gulping for air.

"I won't let him stay alive. I'll kill him." the programmer growled.

"You didn't give him a chance to say a word, but you immediately attacked him. I know he brought Eclipse back, he copied my data, but don't you want to hear why he did it? If you kill him, you won't get an answer to any of your questions."

"Yes, I don't need answers! I can do it without his loud and eloquent words! Just let me get it over with!"

"No. You're not yourself, again. Try to take a step towards him and I promise I will take the necessary measures. Chill out. You can't make decisions based on emotions." Solar turned to Ruin, who was staring at them in fright... He... He didn't look like someone who could coolly bring back to life the main enemy of them. Them, which he almost considers family.

"Thank you, Solar." Ruin coughed. Leaning his hands on the floor, he tried to stand up, but his legs quickly gave way, and he had no choice, just to continue sitting on the floor, bending his knees towards himself and clasping them with his palms.

"Why did you bring Eclipse back?" Solar asked coolly, watching the Moon out of the corner of his eye.

"I didn't mean to, I swear! Me... I was forced." he replied in a frightened and very quiet voice, staring at the floor.

"Recently... A strange little robot came to visit me... He looked like an artist mannequin, and at first I didn't even pay attention to it. He said something about the stars, Lunar, and.. Eclipse... I didn't take his words seriously until he suddenly came right up to me and grabbed my hand. My head, it is... It got very sick. I felt with every grain of my body how everything inside me was bursting at the seams. My new body is strong enough, but unfortunately, the protection has not been finalized... This strange robot threatened me. He said that if I didn't follow his instructions, he would kill me. He said that this pain is the least he can do to me." Ruin swallowed before continuing. It was as if an invisible lump had risen to his throat. "I didn't know what to do, really! I did exactly as he asked, I copied Solar's voice and part of his personality. I swear, I'm really sorry, I tried to resist it, but this pain, it reappeared and pressed very hard on me, as if my rays were slowly but stubbornly torn from my head so that I could feel each wire thinning and tearing, and the sparks at the ends hurt, burning from the inside... I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I know I'm not worthy to be a part of your family, but I couldn't help it!" There was indeed desperation and helplessness in his voice.

"You are not just unworthy to be a part of the family, you are not worthy to live." Moon clenched his hand into a fist again. "Solar, let me through, I listened to the reason as you wanted, now I want to kill him even more."

"No."

This word was hard for Solar. But he understood that Ruin was just as much a victim as they were. He was just being used. You know, under pressure, you can make people do a lot of terrible things. And if the victim is naive and weak, then it is much easier to break it.

"What do you mean 'no'? He's still a traitor! Let me go, I say!" Moon started to boil again, but Solar turned to him, covering the figure sitting on the floor with his hands, hunched over with guilt.

"I said no. If you want to deal with everyone who is to blame for this, then go ahead. Because you know what? The Eclipse was created because of me. If I wasn't here, he would be too. I am the only native speaker of a code like it. So come on, show me your anger and hatred. Pounce on me like a wild dog, tear me apart."

Moon banged his fist loudly on the table next to him, after which he stomped loudly to the other side of the room, cursing under his breath. He stopped at the edge of the room and stood with his arms crossed over his chest. Solar sighed, then turned back and sat down on his knees near the Ruin. Putting his hand on his shoulder, he said:

"It's okay, buddy. I understand that you didn't want to do this. Promise me that we'll figure this out together. I don't want you to be alone and at risk."

"I'm really sorry..." Ruin whispered. The theater attendant shook his head to the sides.

"I know. I see it, Ruin. Now get up. You'll be safer in kindergarten than here alone. Eclipse hasn't done anything yet, and I don't want him to do anything to you. As more supporter he has, as worse it gets."

"I'll try not to let you down! I swear!" he exclaimed, raising his head. Solar snorted.

"I really hope so..."

[possumsarenice]

WAIT GUYS I JUST REMEMBEREDED TO ASK THIS QUESTION

DID RUIN EVER FIX HIS KILL CODE???????

WE WERE SO WRAPPED UP OVER IF WAS ACTUALLY CURED OR NOT WE FORGOT TO ASK THAT

WHAT IF HE MADE ECLIPSE BECAUSE OF HIS KILL CODE????? WHAT IF HE EMBRACED HIS URGES???? WHAT IF IT FORMED A DIFFERENT AI (probably not but it is a very small possibility)

[snowe-zolynn-rogers]

Also, I'm not scratching off 'we find out who made Eclipse by April 7th' on my second bingo card until this cockamamie bullshit gets somehow confirmed.

[sardix]

Eclipse redemtion arc starts!?(theory)

So in the New lunar and earth show episode eclipse is forced to go to therapy with earth, becouse they all can see that eclipse needs it.

Mostly it does not work since eclipse dosn't want to do it and you can clirly see that he gave up on himself and the idea that others acually cared.

We find out that the first time eclipse visited earth saing that he wanted to redem himself was true and he did until sun and moon killed him. (Now he gave up that they would forgive him or that it can be better)

He acually trust earth the most out of all of them stating that she is difrent then these morons(sun and moon).

And although he did everything to avoid all the questions, he admitted to how scared he was when he was "born" (aka abandoned) or as he states "it was horifing to wake up not in you're own body", and moon was lisening in their conversation and he acually felt bad and wanted to apologise for old moon's doings and as moon says it was all old moons foult all the problems, where becouse he couldn't handle his own problems and gave them to soemone else (onto eclipse, although he thought he was giving them onto sun).

The sad part is that eclipse aparently didn't hear him say it, maybe( we don't know a 100%. ) but I would love to see later maybe in a memory that eclipse heard it and he just pused with shock (maybe with tears in his eyes) or that could happen in the future. I feal like he would really apreaciate a sorry for being abandoned.

But the good news is that eclipse cares, i mean we already knew that thanks to solar flare, but the fact that he didn't answer to earths question and complitly avoided it (the guestion being "did you care about lunar)

And eclipse acually admits and refers to how he is all alone all the time and why he hated them becouse he saw thru suns eyes and how happy he was and eclipse was Just stuck.

Also the fact that we know how sun pushed all his negative emotions into eclipse, mostly anger.(sun probably tho didn't do it on purpose and didn't know that he was doing it) That's why when eclipse was finally gone from suns head, sun started to have trouble with anger becouse he did't have any creature in his head to push them onto. So that's as well a reson to why eclipse was so controled by his anger or as eclipse says "I got you're motivations and ambitions sun"

And earth points out that he wanted to be better to sun than old moon was (or at least that's how I understood it, i could be wrong)

But earth sums up eclipse can be helped he just needs to want and acept help, just like he was wiling to before he got killed by the canon

(Also is it just me but the way moon said about ever meting the old moon is a hint to who maybe is behind all of it(probably ruin is tho) or at least that they will meet, and if they will I'm beting, becouse they will need old moons help. And there is a 50/50 chance, that old moon eather will be just a person who used to be selfish but regreted his mistakes, tried to fix them all by himself and proved that he acually cared about sun OR which is more likely he will be a complite dushbag especially how since new moon was born we have been shown and found out more stuff that old moon did and how everyone called him a prick and other bad stuff so I'm beting On the second option)

But the bigest achiwment would be that earth acually suceded in receving any information from eclipse even if it was just one thing. It means that he could open up when he will trust her more. The reason why he even had any trust for her is becouse he saw how terefied she was before he died or the moment he was dieing. He saw that she was acually woried and it gave him slight hope that she might acually care. (I think)

Eather way I hope in the future there will be more progres and eclipse won't finally be all alone in anger, at this point dude deserves it seing how much he went thru, is going thru and probably will have to go thru.

And The MOST important thing is that moon felt bad so there is a CHANCE that he will not kill eclipse permanently when they will find his Creator. (And I hope they won't kill him i feal like eclipse has a chance)

What I honesly hope to happen, is that we got a hint that eclipse cared about sun. and eclipse now alaways asked about sun's opinion and not just moons (he didn't probably care about moons opinion... maybe) so I feal like eclipse could open up if he somehow ended up stuck with sun. As long as sun would acually be calm with eclipse and not start arguing with him....(he wouldn't definitly at the beginig but with time)

It would probably work with eclipse opening up even a litle or just one inforamtion if he was in a situation where he would confront sun (since knowing sun's luck he isn't gonna die and will have to suffer thru everything) and idk maybe eclipse would be just the only person around or avaible to confront sun, since solar would be probably ocupied with work and also I'm not sure if he would even atempt comforting sun.

although if they did fight, eclipse could acidently scream out some valiuble information as in for example he could scream "and how did you think I felt when the first person i have ever cared about betrayed me and tried killing me?! And you did suceed in that didn't you?" Okay that's maybe not the best example but you get my point.(if someone has a better example please tell me)

Anyways what do you think about this theory? Let me know, i love to discuss that stuff and have a nice day i hope my theory made you at least consider some stuff.

[mrdairyy]

this may just be because ruin’s sun and moon’s personalities clash during certain situations for example when ruin got back to the daycare after being kidnapped he says multiple times that he doesn’t know what to feel about the situation moon would be angry and try to do something rash (remember that ruin’s sun and moon didn’t make the show so they would act like pre-show sun and moon) while sun would be upset and scared about the situation. These two things would clash causing ruin to be confused on what to feel. Again I could go on and on about it but this post is getting long lol

Part 4 and last part this is a lot better than the giant essay I made lol

[fillipquesender]

Few things to say abt this

First of all the thumbnail oh my god each time i see a new thumbnail with this persons art i get shocked because it keeps getting better

Uh

Ruin in the thumbnail

Smash oh my god babygirl who?? 😻

Okay erm actual small thing i picked up cus i can't remember anything else, and before you say this I'm writing this from a neutral perspective rather than "hes my favourite by my words he can' do this blah blah blah".

When ruin was speaking, he kept having a voice slip up. I saw people saying that was his facade falling, but it could also be something else. At the end of the day he does still have a sun and moon in him, so maybe that was what was happening? He could still be innocent with just one doing the harm? Because I know for sure that the sun one won't do that shit, and this certainly doesn't seem like the same ruin from when he just got cured.

Another one is that he could possibly be getting forced to do this stuff. The whole "give me five minutes" makes it seem like he was talking to someone else rather than to moon and solar, and in a way he does seem like he doesn't want any of them to get hurt if we choose to trust his word on this.

He could always just be evil, but until specifically stated on what his motives are, we can't really say for sure until shown otherwise. This is more to dig further deeper into it than I really should because theorizing is really fun 🧍

In summery, he could always be evil, he could not, so there is still hope for ruin lovers aswell as the people who think hes evil. Again, thats really just up to what the VAs choose to do and whats done is done

[joltyflare]

(Sun and Moon Show Theory # 1: Ruin Still Does Have Another AI Inside His Body)

I've done a few rants now...time for my first theory post!!

So, Ruin is one of the most mysterious characters in the entire series. When he first appeared, he was a maniac who just wanted to torture and kill everyone in sadistic ways.

Or so he seemed.

It was then revealed that the Creator of his universe inflicted all the animatronics with a virus that made them all evil and sadistic and that Ruin was one of these many animatronics.

Or so he seemed.

When he banished Sun and Moon to Ruin's dimension, they managed to get a cure, return to their home, inject Ruin with it, and possibly cure him.

Ahem... Or so it seemed...

After this, he was always a little suspicious but he at least seemed different from his former maniac self. He was no longer seeking out others to play insane "games" that were very sadistic in nature and usually involved some sort of physical suffering. He seemed meek and shy as well as terribly clumsy as well as a little eccentric and, let's face it...not the brightest.

But there always was still that doubt that he wasn't fully cured and that he was behind the return of the infamous Eclipse. Or, if he was cured, still had some plans going on in the background. After all, not much was known about Eclipse other than that he was the fusion of his Sun and Moon and that he came from a dimension destroyed by the Creator there. It would make sense for him to still have motives that would cause him to do strange things. He was also proven to be a good actor more than once. The fandom was split in half on the decision of whether or not to believe that he was innocent but it has been proven that he was indeed NOT innocent.

Yet the common consensus was that he was faking not being cured or that he was cured and was just pretending he didn't bring Eclipse back and wasn't doing anything wrong. Nobody really thought about the possibility that he had also been pretending to have the virus all along and never really had it! Yet he claims that was the case and that he had simply been a carrier, stating that his whole manic behaviour was all an act to get rid of Sun and Moon so that he could use their home to start prepping his plans to get rid of the Creator Council.

So, it seems that Ruin is a very, very good actor. Most of what he has done has been an act. His manic, sadistic, chaos-loving "virus self" and his shy, clumsy, frankly adorable self were simply personas.

But one thing that has remained consistent is the prospect of him having another entity trapped within his body, one that he's possibly blocking from having control somehow. We've seen this happen quite a few times with characters in this series at this point so it's obviously possible.

There have been a few hints to this being the case, such as when he rescued Foxy (before beating him to a pulp lol), was interrogated the first time, and after Moon and Solar went through his memories. The second instance could quite easily be an act and it would make sense if it was. However...why would he have done so when rescuing Foxy or when waking up after having had his mind scrubbed? These instances also take place in both his virus persona and innocent persona phases.

When he saved Foxy in that one MGAFS episode and beat him up (which I may make a post on itself), another personality seemed to interrupt him beating up Foxy and apologized profusely for what was going on. There was the implication that this personality was his good side and was trapped in his body and couldn't control it, with Ruin somehow suppressing it. Everyone assumed this was his non-virus-afflicted self but in recent episodes, he said he was just actin like he had a virus. Still, this scene is very odd. He seemed to genuinely be losing control and, yes, he is a VERY GOOD ACTOR and all but why would he have done that? Was it because he himself felt bad and he felt so guilty he wanted to act out that second personality apologizing? Was it because he wanted to really hammer in the story that he was under the influence of a virus to the point where he'd pretend his non-virus self came out at that moment to convince Foxy too?

It just struck me as odd, you know? This personality didn't have the accent (though I assumed this could be a retcon at first and it still could be even if my theory is correct). I'm not sure why but I just feel like this was a genuine moment.

But what really made me think someone else is being suppressed in Ruin's mind is when Moon scrubbed his mind and Ruin woke up and said "our head is spinning." When Moon questioned his use of the word "our", Ruin seemed to get quite defensive. For all he acting that he does, I don't think he would incriminate himself by saying something like this on purpose. I believe this was a genuine slip-up on his behalf like there was someone else there he was referring to. After all, he was doing his best to make it so that Moon was not suspicious of him in any way. As far as Ruin was concerned, his innocent persona had no secret side. There would have been no benefit for him to have pretended it did have another personality in it.

He also seemed to be muttering something to himself about someone being free soon during that episode where he reveals himself to Sun and waits for Moon to show up. Sure, he could have been referring to the dimensions that are being saved by the Creator Council's downfall being freed from their grasp, but it's still an odd word choice if that is the case.

It's the mind-scrubbing episode mixed with the Foxy episode that does it for me though. My theory is that there is someone else stuck in his head who doesn't agree with the methods Ruin has for ending the Creator Council. Someone who is a lot more peaceful than he is and who doesn't like that others have to suffer for this goal to be achieved. I think Ruin is suppressing this side of himself but I think he interacts with him from time to time. We know that this is something that can happen.

I think that this is the side of him that has the "sweet Sun voice", as others have called it in the past when wondering why it had an accent and "cured Ruin" doesn't. But just who is it? According to what Ruin said in his backstory episode, his Sun and Moon merged and ended up as him. They weren't separate and became one entity, right? But, with the way the episode ends, he doesn't exactly say much about how the process went or what happened after. Did something go wrong? Did another entity get involved and, perhaps, Moon got merged with them by accident instead of with Sun? (I say Moon due to the non-British voice I mentioned being Sun, meaning it would've had to have been Moon to have been merged or lost had something gone wrong) Could something have gone wrong later down the line, perhaps when the Creator made Ruin into a carrier of the virus? Had he experimented on Ruin and tampered with him, causing something to occur and possibly create a new personality entirely in the process?

I feel like it's really possible that the Creator could have done something that created Ruin as we know it, introducing another new personality to the singular body. Ruin hates the Creators, all of them, with a passion. He clearly has something personal against them on top of the knowledge they will destroy as many universes as they can with their antics.

When telling Moon he should go mourn the loss of Solar with the rest of the family, Ruin also mentions that he knows what it's like to grieve with others. Ruin has obviously gone through a lot... I mean, yes, we knew he went through a lot after what his dimension went through and all but there's a lot more he isn't telling us. I want to know everything about Ruin!

My theory is something tragic caused Ruin to become the way we know him as today and that he does indeed have another personality within him. While I don't think Ruin himself is evil or anything, I do believe whoever's inside his head is a lot more peaceful and doesn't agree with the way he's going about things. I'd assume if there's someone else within him then he is pretty traumatized from the things he's seen Ruin do at this point. We don't know the details of what happened after Sun and Moon merged. Ruin was very vague. For all I know, it's possible the Moon half of him got destroyed entirely at some point.

Hopefully, we learn more about him soon. He is really, really good at hiding things from everyone but it seems like he's willing to reveal everything soon. I just think he's sharing a body with someone. I don't think he hates this other being but I do think he suppresses him because he doesn't want whoever it is getting in his way of stopping the Creators.

Anyway, I doubt he'll die soon. He mystery plot armour!

I wouldn't say I articulated my thoughts the greatest here and I mostly rambled but I'll post it anyway.

[rubydevilcat-blog]

I have a theory for The Sun and Moon show, related to who brought back Eclipse. What if it was Evil Sun?

Ever since Eclipse came back from the dead, so much has happened from the end of December, to the beginning of February. Eclipse has been shown to be much different than what he was before he died; He expressed how he doesn’t remember much after he died, he called out that he revealed himself too early, and he does not know why he is doing any of the actions he is doing. It’s as if he has forgotten so much about his own motive, something the eclipse we know would never do.

The only thing he knows is that he has knowledge about his magic, he remembers the star doing dead, he remembers what killed him, he remembers his victims, and he knows about Solar. The one thing he doesn’t know is who created him, that becomes the main conflict at the moment in TSAMS channel, along with LAES.

During this conflict, Ruin is seen as a suspect, a possible reasoning for Eclipse’s return. The only evidence Moon or Eclipse have against Ruin is that he was known for creating Bloodmoon’s physical body (when he was evil), and being able to fix his own body with blueprints. Ruin is seen as a smart animatronic who can create anything as long as he has a blueprint, it explains why fixing arcades is difficult, he doesn’t have the instructions on how to fix it properly.

Maybe with Ruin being accused, maybe that’s part of Evil Sun’s plan? Evil Sun has no eyes on him, no one suspects he could do anything, but ruin? He has done evil things before, and has been an enemy to Sun and Moon before. How does Evil Sun know about Ruin? With one key evidence to support my theory, he has New Moon’s information. He knows about Solar, about Ruin, about Sun, about everyone in the information given to him, but I feel with Eclipse it was complicated. Moon doesn’t know Eclipse’s true motive, his reasoning of doing evil, and he only knows what Eclipse has done, not behind the scenes.

Evil Sun could have made Eclipse to continue to mess with Moon, have you seen what he has done so far? Most of the time while Evil Sun was out of radar, it was Moon who made most of the bad decisions. Moon lied to Lunar to try to protect him, only causing a conflict in the relationship. Moon made a deal with Eclipse to keep him alive to find the person who made Eclipse, making Lunar more furious and feeling betrayed. Making Solar create Jack to protect Lunar, making him lie to Lunar so Jack could stay hidden for weeks. Every decision made has been caused by Moon, and what if Evil Sun knew this could happen.

Far as I know, Evil Sun could have a plan completely different than what I’m thinking of, but here is the plan I believe Evil Sun has made:

Evil Sun collects information from Moon, so he can learn more about the universe Moon lives in, and the strengths and weakness he has.

He goes to Solar’s Universe to collect what he needs, possibly something from the computers, his information that Moon did not have, or supplies:

Evil Sun creates Eclipse, applying magic into him, setting up a code that cannot be removed, or Eclipse would die.

Evil Sun sends Eclipse to Moon’s dimension, with a directive in his hardware so even if he doesn’t remember much, he would know what to do (Somewhat)

He plays the waiting game as he watches him his computer of what Eclipse has been doing, like collecting data like ‘Bloodmoon’s blueprints’ from Ruin.

With what information Eclipse knows about Ruin, he goes after him first, going after him enough times for him to be accused of creating Eclipse, causing Moon to suspect and interrogate Ruin.

With Ruin being watched, Evil Sun stands by and watches as he sees Moon make even more bad decisions, like creating Jack without telling lunar for weeks about Eclipse.

So far thats how I think the plan is going, moon making rash decisions, causing problems for himself as Evil Sun keeps watch. I believe that there are multiple outcomes of what he is doing right now, with how much of a genius he is, there could be something he is doing behind the scenes that we don’t know.

Either 1, he received a notification about Eclipse’s new chip, and at the moment he is coding a loophole so his Eclipse doesn’t get killed too soon.

Or 2, he waits as he watches Moon, waiting for him to make one more bad decision that caused a drift between him and Sun, leaving him alone

But whatever Evil Sun is doing, it’s not good. With the recent hints going on about Sun, if Evil Sun is the main problem, I fear that Evil Sun may at one point try to switch places with OG Sun, so he can do something worse. If not, then that’s is something we will have to find out.

[rayofmisfortune]

NO ONE FRIGGIN BLINK

TODAY IS LORE EPISODE DAY AND I SWEAR IF WE DON'T GET A FULL EPISODE FROM RUIN CLIPSY'S POV I'M THROWING OVER A FEW TABLES

I guess this can be considered my prediction for a future "RESCUING RUIN ECLIPSE in VRChat" episode I GUESS???

~

But basically, imagine an episode from Ruin Eclipse's pov, we get to see new Eclipse friggin torturing them and whatever else. They'd beg for him to stop, insisting that the others would come for them, that they were looking for them.

Eclipse would laugh in their face, not without zoning out at least 3 times during the thing and questioning why the hell he's doing any of this. He'd then leave off to wherever tf he goes.

We'd get a moment of Ruin Eclipse's internal private thoughts, but of course, they'd be guarded because they (hc time) KNOW they are being watched. But I'd imagine with what Eclipse put them through, they would hardly care for what some invisible broadcasting all seeing eye thought of them.

Then, after this, we'd see (still from Ruin Eclipse's pov) Solar and Moon entering the holding cells area. Ruin Eclipse would not let a peep out, unsure, even when they kept on insisting to Eclipse, if they really are getting rescued or aren't just seeing some cruel last hope of freedom made up by their desperate mind.

Solar and Moon would look around, check all the holding cells, because this is the likeliest area of where the alternate bot could be, no? They'd eventually find their way up the stairs, closer and closer towards Ruin Eclipse, who lays defeated on the ground, refusing to so much as move a finger as everything hurts, (hc) again.

Haha uhhh yea that's it, I like theorizing of the script for future episodes, I know I'm probably (more like totally) wrong but it's fun to do so ^^

~

Explanation for the hc's:

hc: Probably something a lot of people theorize about, Ruin and by extension Ruin Eclipse can see the viewers, or at least the cameras when they're watching. We obviously never get to see any of them OUTSIDE of the camera's view, so... I'd imagine Ruin Eclipse is more careful of what they do when they are being watched.

hc: I hc that while Ruin Eclipse were still broken, they were in constant pain from all the open cracked and shattered holes in their casing, not to mention their gosh darn leg and hands. If they- if they got broken again, got to feel the persistent pain they thought they were rid of by fixing themself up? Gosh, haha wooo angst

~

If anyone likes this little idea of mine, I'm not opposed to people making their own take of this if they feel like doing so! Pretty please lmk if anyone does (no pressure ofc) I'd love to see it!

[basilbots]

Yes I think Ruin brought Eclipse back Yes I think Ruin and Eclipse should become friends we exist

[thorns-and-rosewings]

Okay today's episode... Hmmm... While I can understand that Ruin is indeed behind everything I have to wonder really IF it is still the virus making him go crazy, if there's really two personalities in him, which could very well be the case. A real Jekyll and Hyde situation.

Actually have no doubt there's two personalities in there. Remember he was able to say 'I'm sorry' and 'Help me' on several occasions. Either there's a split personality or something else is going on. However I don't think it's quite as straightforward as is being implied here.

I'm wondering... We just learned old Moon is catatonic in our current Moon... If he attempts to infect himself with the virus, could it patch up the old version of Moon and create a whole new problem?

That is a current thought I am having with Ruin. Maybe when he was infected with the virus it latched onto one particular part of him...

...his Killcode...

Would certainly explain his murderous insanity eh? The need to kill in regards to the killcode, but with the playful insanity of Ruin himself.

Perhaps if the virus IS gone, the Killcode in Ruin is likely still active and probably mutated in some way. Resulting in whatever the hell insanity is going on. But I will admit this is an extremely far-fetched theory...

Though I still believe there's more going on here than simply Ruin is faking it.

[ikamigami]

i want an actual episode of "Day in the life of sun" so bad, I wanna know what is he doing in the house all the day.

Same! QwQ pls give me that episode! Gaisbsnsksn

[unnamed-proxy]

[sardix]

What if solar is the one behind eclipses return?(the voice theory)

In the recent episode where eclipse died we can see how he talks to himself but... the other voice seems weird dosn't it?

Eclipse is talking to himself and that voice, you can hear it, in the phrasing when the other voice says "you already know how to do that, don't you?" It's not praised like someone who is talking to himself, it's phraised like the voice asums that but dosn't know for sure. if it was his voice it would go "but you know already how to do that" but no. It sounds like the voice dosn't know for sure which makes me think maybe becouse it's not eclipses voice.

Then you could say but it sounds like eclipse just with a difrent tone slightly?

And to that i say Yes but we know a character that sounds basicly if not 1 to 1 like eclipse and just talks in a difrent tone becouse he's not insane and that person is Solar who wasn't there when eclipse apeared for the first time and he is never there when eclipse is about to do something that could potentially hurt someone.we are not even a hundret procent sure that ruin told him that he traped eclipse or that he said how he did that in the first place and maybe solar knew becouse he heard ruin say that to eclipse.

What if solar just put something into eclipses head that makes him anable to comunicate with him and eclipse can't tell a difrence between his and solars voice so he asums that he went insane and does everything the voice tells him to do which is solar.

But that's just my theory what do you think?