#WHERE TF WAS ADRIEN

[hi-there-buddies]

Never have I hated yet loved a show so much as I do miraculous ladybug. But I gotta be real. The hate is overshadowing the love a bit after that finale.

[mugchild]

y'all know how ppl act when there's a new iphone released? this is exactly how ppl should be reacting to that ugly ass agreste ring in the miraculous universe

i imagine going it smth like this:

idc if the new agreste ring is essentially just a french apple watch knock off im gonna fuggen buy it anyway because have you heard the voice actress? hell yeah i'll do anything u want lady

*gabriel, founding a successful high fashion line*

now let's do something...dIFFERENT

*releases a french apple watch but make it a ring to make it virtually impossible to see anything on the screen reverting back to ye olde nokia*

this makes so much sense

or:

yo for my people in europe I heard the new agreste ring advert is not actually starring his son Adrien?? like it's actually fake deep. wtf. like that's so messed up bc imagine if his son actually wanted to quit his career and now his face is still being used for the profit of the agreste brand??? and i mean sure he's gonna inherit it one day but still super weird if this is true. anyone wanna confirm this??

or:

i'll buy anything if adrien wears it

feel free to add on

[sidsinning]

the movie aint better ya goofs (don't read if you don't wanna hear my slander lol,,,)

"Movie!Gabriel is better than show!Gabriel because he actually cares for his son and gets redeemed"

istg this fandom's obsession with redemption needs to END

Morally better character ≠ better writing

Can I just get a piece of media that tells kids "hey, ur abusive parent was an asshole, and even if they had humanity you do not need to reconcile and forgive them in the end" bc I feel like that's what show!Gabriel leans towards which is great

Gabriel barely talks to Adrien in the movie and suddenly when he sees him under CN's mask his entire reign of terror, his determination to see his dead wife again ends in a tearful hug lmao come on now

("but the ending where Adrien suddenly loves his dad again???"- Astruc has been pretty blunt on Twitter that this perfect society you see in S5's ending is built off of a lie, so Adrien is def not gonna just keep that view)

"Adrien actually stands up to his dad in the movie!"

Movie!Adrien is legit a normal human boy, not a sentimonster who is literally physically incapable of fighting back against whoever has his amok

He DOES fight back (even in S1 as CN!), but people like to remember the show only up to S3. Guess what, he learns to fight back and stand up for himself through his growing bonds and relationships with those around him through character development ✨✨✨

Also, he is an abused kid??? In the show?? How can you knock him down a peg for not fighting back,,, 😭 Adrien's lesson isn't that he needs to learn how to fight back, it's that Nathalie shoulda called cps sooner!!! In the movie they are much more of an estranged father-son pair than anything abusive. So obviously the back talk is much easier too. Movie!Adrien gets to go out alone and with friends unless his dad has specifically planted an enemy where he is. Show!Adrien has been beaten, mind controlled, forced to hurt Marinette, isolated and locked up, etc.- he has been TERRIFIED of his dad multiple times.

"Marinette isn't an obsessive stalker in this!"

SIGH.

Man I am so sick of this complaint- the show has never rewarded Marinette for her obsessive behavior. BC IT IS A CHARACTER FLAW. One they use for cringe comedic purposes, but a flaw nonetheless. Every time she has done anything that hurts others in pursuit of Adrien she is punished by the writers. And bc the show has an episodic monster-of-the-week format, this plot is recycled a lot (which is its own complaint). And guess what? SHE STOPS BEING OBSESSIVE. YEAH. SHE STOPS DOING THAT SHIT- so what do you want now??? She grew out of it after it costs her the miraculous so why tf are yalls still hurling this at her like its a L,,,,

This Marinette is just a watered down boring version of show!Marinette. She's just a girl who gets insecure at times but grows confident bc she's Ladybug. Ok. So is our Marinette but MORE. Our Marinette is super smart, creative, resourceful, an overthinker, extremely kind and selfless to others, gets jealous and reckless when her emotions get the better of her, etc. She is fully formed even after watching just 3 episodes of S1.

Like the fact that they didn't even bother to include the oh so important hook of the show- her lucky charm power- shows they didn't care about doing this story justice- its so transparently lazy writing 💀 (miraculous of creation where??? CN gets cataclysm for destruction but what is movie!LB bringing to the yin yang table,,,)

Legitimately all the comparisons I'm hearing from people saying the movie is better are from those who just aren't caught up with the show where Marinette is no longer toxically obsessive with Adrien, where the plot/lore is insane but 10000000x better and more creative than what the movie gave us, the love square was much better developed EVEN FROM JUST THE ORIGINS EPISODES, etc. Istg these people stopped at S3 where the show was at its worst (if I were to pinpoint it)

Everything is so watered down or changed for the worse

Adrienette bonding was 1 conversation and 2 seconds about his mom in a voiceless montage. Marinette didn't fall for him bc of his kindness after a misunderstanding, it was bc he looked handsome in the library's light lol. He called her weird and didn't think twice about putting on his earphones to listen to more alpha podcasts. You really do wonder why she likes this dude over her partner CN bc they have no connection at all.

Movie!Adrien was an asshole don't you dare do show!Adrien dirty by comparing him to this ellen degeneres alien lookin mf

When movie!Adrien is crying after Mari reveals herself as LB, unlike the show, here you're like "yeah no you only like her now bc she's LB lol"

Anyways feel free to enjoy what you enjoy but uuuuuhhhh this movie getting a 3/10 for me would not rewatch

Oh wait the good things

-Visuals

-Some Ladynoir scenes were cute, like them playfully fighting with the accidental wall pin

-I liked Ladybug moving away from CN's kiss- nice hint of angst

-Chloe's coffee stain scene

-Luka cameos were cute

songs were bad or mid

ya das it

I guess feel free to talk to me in my inbox about your own thoughts if you wish (respectfully plz)

[wackus-bonkus-maximus]

Same anon who just asked about why you placed Adrien as a 7 instead of a 2, only to look deeper in the reblogs of your ML enneagram post and see you already answered it haha!

In friendly defense of 2!Adrien, I’d argue that his reactions to being stressed coming off as more of a 7 rather than a 2 is actually a perfect reflection of the effects of his abuse; it’s fear that drives his non-confrontation tendencies rather his own nature. I think Risk highlighted that a bit in revealing how Adrien does desire confrontation, even if he doesn’t act on it.

(I have always found it interesting to consider the role that trauma/neurodivergency plays in shaping a character’s personality, since it’s one of the flaws I feel most personality assessments can’t really account for.)

I also think Chat’s arguments with LB were more like to be confrontational than avoidant (thinking of the times he’s called her out and his romantic pursuit being the primary indicators), up until she became the Guardian. So then with S4, I’d consider it to be a gradual relationship shift that leads to Chat no longer feeling safe and secure enough in his position to confront her the way he once did, which is why he only tries a bit in Kuro Neko before running, and then doesn’t try at all in Strikeback.

I hope this doesn’t come off as too preachy or anything, just wanted to share my 2¢! Cause either way you slice it, your Adrien has always been brilliantly written and incredibly in-character to me, so you’ve clearly got a rock solid understanding of his character. ❤️

hello november anon and sorry for the delay! thank you so much for the ask and also for going back and looking through my prev posts. you know my teacher heart loves it when you do the readings! 😌 also you're definitely not the only one who believes adrien is a 2 rather than a 7! and while i know there are good arguments for both sides, i'll explain in depth my position on adrien's personality.

part 1 of the ask:

so here are the reasons i think adrien IS an enneagram type 7

adrien's motivation seems like that of a 7 to me: he wants to experience everything and be satisfied in every way he can. if he had a disney princess "i want" song, it would be "i want to go to school, i want to make friends, i want adventure in the great wide somewhere., i want to have fun."

the literal first shot of him in the show (if we use origins as a starting point) is adrien running away. nathalie asks him to please reconsider, he knows what his father wants, and adrien says, "but this is what i want to do." according to the enneagram institute, "sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others." going to school and having a new experience with new people is what's going to enhance adrien's enjoyment of life - not being the center of his family unit or the apple of his father's eye.

a 2's motivation would be to be as loved as possible and to make themselves neeed by those they most care about. while adrien definitely shows a desire to be loved and needed, especially by ladybug, i think his primary desire is for experience, and it's this from which all his actions- not just characteristics - are based. take for example his reaction to getting his miraculous vs marinette's (also in origins):

adrien is excited and intrigued and ready to go, as a 7 would be when offered a new experience - and a new way to satisfy their desire to try everything. marinette, as a 1, is quite the opposite: she is being put in a situation where she must do something right or fail, and therefore is stressed tf out. while marinette's motivation to be good/perfect fuels her anxious reaction, adrien's motivation to experience everything and be satisfied fuels his thrilled and slightly reckless reaction. that's why he charges out into battle without listening to all the instructions; his motivation was to escape the restraints of his life and try something new.

in growth, enneagram 7's take on the positive traits of 5's. in stress, they take on the negative traits of 1's. i have seen adrien exhibit these behaviors throughout the show on many occasions!

according to the enneagram institute, "Sevens have fear about their inner world. There are feelings of pain, loss, deprivation, and general anxiety that Sevens would like to stay clear of as much as possible. To cope with these feelings, Sevens keep their minds occupied with exciting possibilities and options— as long as they have something stimulating to anticipate, Sevens feel that they can distract themselves from their fears." therefore, while one can argue that adrien's wealth of knowledge and fun facts is a result of everything gabriel has forced him to learn (mandarin, piano, fencing, medieval horse colors), we can assume he at least was interested in it - and that seeking new knowledge like a 5 kept him from lingering in his sadness.

"i'll help you learn mandarin marinette" "i'll show you how to fence marinette" "most people think henry iv's white horse was white my lady" "do you need subtitles my lady i speak several languages"

now as to how adrien moves to the low parts of type 1 during the show: i think the main examples of this are the instances he adopts rigid, critical, and judgemental characteristics, which is potentially unpleasant for anyone who has to be around him.

first up, adrien's akumatized forms: chat blanc, ephemeral, celesticat

i bring up the akumas because, though adrien isn't in his right mind (by hawkmoth's akumas), they are examples of adrien being in extreme stress.

as chat blanc, adrien wants to either right the world or destroy it for being wrong - the critical supreme judgement an unhealthy 1 is capable of. he lashes out when contradicted, and is quite ruthless even to marinette, who he loves, in the name of executing judgement.

as ephemeral, adrien seeks to control time. (however, this is probably the weakest example because adrien was being amok-controlled in this instance and was acting on shadow moth's will, not his own.)

i include celesticat because while this is an example of a "good" akumatization, adrien was still under so much stress that an akumatization was able to take place. yet even while being in "good" stress, adrien still shows characteristics of 1: perfectionism, righteousness, taking control of the situation. he literally turns into a pure white angelic being, an embodiment of perfection. it's what he believes he has to do in order to salvage the situation. it's one of the more healthier moves from 7 to 1 i have seen depicted in media and is entirely plausible concept under the enneagram's theory! this just goes to show the depth and richness of his character.

next, we will discuss adrien's various alter egos:

cat walker

i've said it before and i'll say it again; cat walker is another move from 7 -> 1.

as chat noir, adrien is at the height of his 7-ness. he enjoys the freedom that his miraculous powers and secret identity gives him, and uses it as a means of escape from the regular constraints of his life and obligations. then in kuro neko when ladybug slights him, she denies him the fulfilment and satisfaction in reaching his full potential as chat noir (e.g., being of equal importance on the team as her) that he should be allowed. of course he becomes hurt and angry! she's stepping on his core desire in life.

according to enneagram coach dr. tom lahue (my favorite enneagram guy ((also a 7)), "type 7's typically deal with anger by trying to avoid it or deflect it. that really is the anger type of a 7 - deflective. deflecting things away." that's what i believe cat walker is: a stress reaction, a deflection of his anger with ladybug. he deflects his painful emotions into something he thinks is positive; a new start.

adrien is usually so joyful and optimistic, but this was a huge blow for him. dr. tom says the best way for a 7 to handle this anger is to be "real and genuine" when coming to terms with it, what does adrien do instead? he turns to a new alter ego. he chases the experience of fulfillment, only he does so by adopting a persona who is serious and perfectionist. obviously this was neither what adrien or ladybug needed, and that is because cat walker is a stress reaction who adrien cannot sustain without continued levels of unhealthy self-denial. this is the hardest he has gone to 1 in the show and what it took to snap him out of it was a level of reflection, analysis, and objectivity (that this was an unhealthy behavior) indicative of a type 5 - and which shows his progression to growth.

2. aspik

one can argue that aspik is more proof of adrien being a 2 than a 7 actually, as his motivations for becoming aspik were to woo ladybug. however, the stress response of a type 2 is to move to the negative qualities of type 8, which is to lash out at those who they believe have taken them for granted.

according to the enneagram institute,

"Average to unhealthy Twos seek validation of their worth by obeying their superego’s demands to sacrifice themselves for others. They believe they must always put others first and be loving and unselfish if they want to get love. The problem is that “putting others first” makes Twos secretly angry and resentful, feelings they work hard to repress or deny. Nevertheless, they eventually erupt in various ways, disrupting Twos’ relationships and revealing the inauthenticity of many of the average to unhealthy Two’s claims about themselves and the depth of their “love.”

as aspik, adrien was never resentful of ladybug for taking him for granted or making him feel rejected. as aspik, his goal was never to make himself needed by her. as aspik, he maintained some extreme levels of optimism that ignored the rational conclusion that he should give up for several thousand time loops. as aspik, he was able to let go and displace his hopes in himself to someone else - and run off to his responsibility as chat noir with high spirits (though i'm sure the ladrien kiss helped)

3. griffe noire

this has got to be the most stressful stress reaction i've seen on adrien. and you might say "but wackus he looks nothing like a type 1" and i say "JUST HOLD ON

going back to dr. tom's analysis on type 7's in anger, he says, "7's typically express their anger indirectly, e.g., through sarcasm, like 5's - like 6's sometimes... but they quickly try to move on and reframe into a more positive way." griffe noire, rather than telling jokes and puns to lighten the mood, mocks and ridicules poor toxinelle who has not convinced me she doesn't have a crush on him. 1's actually do the same thing when they are unhealthy; they criticize and blame and nag others for not being up to par, and by directing his anger at his situation onto toxinelle, griffe noire is doing the same.

dr tom goes on to say, "in some cases [7's] might take impulsive actions to try to free themselves from this feeling of being trapped... engaging in frenetic escapism in behaviors or addictions or substances to try to distance themselves from those who are frustrated with them... or their own anger/pain in life." we have seen griffe noire engage in multiple frenetic behaviors while running amok (haha), all of which are clearly attempts to redirect his pain and anger/ keep it from consuming him. for example, griffe noire takes chat noir's cataclysm to the chest as though it's a game. for another, he openly threatens to destroy the entire world with his super cataclysm. and of course, he is constantly abusing his miraculous by over-exerting his powers in a way only adults should. yet all of these destructive behaviors are still adrien's way of escaping his normal life, and his everyday pain. it's almost like his self-destruction is his addiction.

and yet by the end, it took the introspection of type 5 for griffe noire to realize that his behavior was unhealthy. he observed, he listened, he showed an inquisitiveness that brought him back from the brink. and he also upgraded his outfit so if that isn't a type 7 path to growth i don't know what is!

now i know i won't have convinced everybody, so i just want to drop this section from the enneagram institute's text on misidentifying 2's and 7's:

Although both types are gregarious and enjoy being with people, their interpersonal styles are noticeably different. The Two... would like to be the heart and soul of a family or community, the best friend or confidant everyone comes to for attention, advice, and approval. Twos want to be significant to others and on intimate terms with them, although sometimes they go too far, meddling too much and being too solicitous to make sure they are needed.

adrien is not focused on being needed by anybody, not even ladybug (although due to his romantic interest in her, i can understand why people think so). being the heart and soul of the team is not what motivates him; primarily, i think he just likes having all the experiences he wouldn't otherwise get to have without being chat noir.

By contrast... Sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others.... Sevens may thus exhibit a certain generosity, although their motives may well have less to do with helping needier friends than with making sure that they themselves have a good time by having others around.

this isn't to say that adrien is just focused on having a "good time." i see that his enjoyment is amplified when he is surrounded by people he loves and cares for. he is motivated to have good experiences, and be fulfilled by trying everything, and becoming close to people and forming loving relationships is just a happy byproduct of that.

now there ARE several caveats to my analysis which provide potential arguments against typing adrien as a 7 - and which i can touch on briefly before i close:

adrien's abuse: i understand that trauma and anxiety can affect personality deeply. i'm not qualified to speak on this, or on how it should or shouldn't affect any personality type. i can only say that i think adrien has acted pretty consistently under stress as far as the show depicts

inconsistent characterization: i think we can all agree that ml won't be winning any awards for its consistency in characterization. which i know sounds contradictory to what i just said about how it depicts adrien under stress, but i think there IS a lot of discrepancy in this show and over the course of 9 years with different teams of writers all trying to execute one person's vision, inconsistencies are bound to happen.

thank you again for the ask, anon, and thank YOU if you have read all the way through! tell me your thoughts, if you make it down here - whether you agree/disagree or are just nodding along and letting me indulge in my enneagram brainrot! this is an entirely in-good-faith interpretation of mine, and i'd love to see other opinions if you have them!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

We're finally at the final (thank the gods)! Things that we talked about that I haven't seen discussed:

Nathalie trying to kill Gabriel is such bullshit. "You can't do this! You'll hurt someone!" Nathalie, you have known that since day one! You knew he was working on this all season and you're good now! Why are you only trying to kill him now? You were healthy most of the season! You even physically pinned him! Oh, right, because you're not actually good. It's all just "better than thou" lip service. Hypocrisy is the easiest way to make us dislike a character and Nathalie's a massive hypocrite, so we're not fans.

Evil Nathalie was pretty fun. "Good" Nathalie is aggravating and has as lackluster a redemption as they gave Felix or perhaps even more lackluster. Felix at least switched for love of Kagami. Nathalie switched because Gabriel didn't heal her even though she had zero knowledge that he truly had a chance to do so (she wasn't there and Gabriel has never given up an opportunity to save Emilie so that he could chase Ladybug before). Adrien was never Nathalie's motivation or else we would have seen her protest things like Gorizilla, Style Queen, and Chat Blanc.

Moving on!

The mass teleport to Ladybug should have killed everyone because the whole world is supposed to be after her. A couple billion people teleporting to the same location should mean people squish each other or that portals open over each other/on top of people. Just saying. Budget saved her life because Mirauclous' Earth has a teeny tiny population due to rendering costs.

SO was mad how anticlimactic the final fight between Marinette and Gabe feels. Oh two people who barely interacted, have minimal personal connection, and always hated each other are fighting? Such a big moment! I'm so invested! He talked about how other shows build up to moments like this by making the villain terrifying or by making the villain and the hero have a strong, personal connection or even by making the fight super fun to watch, but miraculous did none of that. SO seriously didn't care about the fight at all and, to be honest, neither did I when I first watched it. I only tuned in when Marinette detransformed and I went, wait, wtf are you doing?

We get to all the scenes with heroes in other locations and SO paused the show every few seconds to ask me who tf person X was. Fei resulted in multiple pauses because of her varied forms. So I can confirm that the casual viewer totally followed this part and it was a wonderful addition (that's sarcasm, btw). He did ask "why would the French say that they need a bunch of Americans to win?" Which I though was pretty funny. That's certainly one way to read the Americans showing up!

SO works in IT. He was so mad that the laptop wasn't remotely wiped after it was lost/Lila stole it. And why does it have access to the Agreste mansion and not just the police robots? I thought Tsurugi corp was a tech company? This is all security 101.

SO's final thoughts: well that was soulless. I feel nothing. I can see why you're so done with this show.

Credit where it's due: while the final was massively disappointing from a story perspective and while I don't think Caline Bustier was written like a good teacher for anyone above the age of 5, it is really cool to show a pregnant woman run for office, win, and then be allowed to do her job with her baby in tow without any of that being treated as a joke. That's a really powerful thing for a young child to see and I'm glad it was included even Caline would make a terrible mayor in real life.

[coralpaperthoughts]

The Dog and Cat Miraculous swap "weapons" because

why tf does the cat have a stick?? like y'all gave the dog a ball coz "fetch" and u gave the cat the stick coz,,,, destruction??? bad luck???

fuck that, I'm rewriting that for my au:

dog miraculous has a stick, a baton if u will, which is just like Chat Noir's with the way it extends and shit but when the holder activates their power (still Fetch coz it's a decent power to have) they use the tip of their baton to touch the object that they want to be able to "fetch" (or they can just use their hand, up to whatever they need)

and like ppl use sticks to play fetch with more than balls anyways so that's my reasoning :)

also then, in my au, we can still have Adrien with his baton in combat coz when I picture dog!Adrien, I always picture him with his baton across his back so yeah :D

now for the cat, I think Marinette would have fun with a ball rather than a stick, and also stick ??? really ??? where's the correlation between stick and cat ??? I think a ball fits better coz ball of yarn (ok maybe that's a stretch) but my cat has always been more interested in sphere objects rather than long thin ones so :P

so cat!Marinette has a "ball" as her weapon of choice, or maybe !! it's her bell, he can detach her bell (with a string attached) and can enlarge it to use to hit opponents (like she does with her yo-yo or as if it's one of those spikey balls on the end of a chain)

and !!! when she wants to use cataclysm, she can hold the bell in her hand and "channel" the cataclysm to the bell so that she can throw it at objects to cataclysm them (because ofc Marinette has good aim, what isn't she good at??)

anyways, dog!Adrien with a club and cat!Marinette with a spiky ball on a chain - Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk :3

masterpost

[imthepunchlord]

Man, hearing about the season 1 days of miraculous makes remember when we first saw the leaks of the season and first the art for the pearls and stone, Alya with the fox (and how everyone called her Volpina), and Chloe with the bee. Man, those were days. I also remember how everyone was thinking Gabriel had the peacock and Emilie had the butterfly originally. I even remember when we first got that one image of Pixie Girl, and everyone thought she was a teenage Emilie with the butterfly miraculous that was going to appear in a flashback episode 😆. Ah, I miss those days.

Gosh so much is taking me back.

I remember expanded Square chaos. I remember there were theories of Ladybug and "Volpina"/Rena being rivals/antagonists to each other as a reversal of them being best friends + clearly Marinette wouldn't trust the new Fox (which I was never crazy about, especially as you typically didn't see that for Adrien and Nino, felt like turning girls against each other); and QB and LB were going be friendly. And there were speculated shenanigans for QB and RR, I think there was also a small rise of Chloya and the idea that maybe they'd have their own Square going.

Some I didn't see, like the theory that Pixie was teen Emilie, but I did see that she was planned for the NY Special, and there were the plans for the Shanghai Special.

I really did theorize that Marinette and Adrien were going to get their own exclusive Specials to be focused on, with Marinette in Shanghai and Adrien in NY and he for sure was going to work with Pixie.

Another theory I had was where Fu was going to become Marinette's mentor, Gabriel was going to be Adrien's, cause I did like the idea that he had the Peafowl, not Emilie. And I thought this concept art of Duusu was her being furious with Gabriel literally shutting her away.

And something was going to go down and this "Paon" was going to steal the Peafowl from Gabriel.

Or she already did and what Gabriel had was a fake.

And potentially that HM was who Gabriel and Emilie feared and that's why Adrien wasn't allowed out.

Those really were the days. The theories were so fun. And much of it I think was more interesting than what we got.

And it was a time of aus. I don't know how many aus are being done for ML these days, I think most are salt fics now, but that was the time to have fun, do different spins. Doing kwami swaps. Life swaps. Cowboy au.

You could get creative with akumas, like, I remember finding old fics that swapped Marientte with Bridgette and trapped her in a different reality/timeline, and I kinda wish the Paris Special did that. Off topic, but I feel the Paris Special should've gone full comedy and full reversal for characters. And that we actually got to see this different Paris.

Like, could you imagine Marinette and Emonette swapping places, either through akuma or Bunnyx, and Marinette's scrambling trying to figure out how to get back and how to keep going in this topsy turvy world where apparently Ladybug is a villain? "Hawk Moth" is a good guy? Wtf is Chat wearing? Wtf happened to Adrien.

And you got Emonette just needing shades cause this world is so bright and sunny and why do these people keep talking to her? Tf happened to Adrien, was he a poser this whole time? HM's a villain? But of course he's a bad villain just like he's a bad hero. And ooooh she's going to have so much fun with Chloe... and who tf is this Lila and what does she think she's doing picking a fight with Emonette. Oh, she's adding her to her list...

And you could add to it if kwamis were also kinda reversed.

Emonette stuck with canon Tikki trying to get her Marinette back, but also trying to rein in Emonette, try to be that voice of reason and her consciousness, and oh, she's dumping all of Chloe's things down the toilet... she's got her work cut out for her.

Meanwhile Special Tikki is more "pure luck" and is more chaotic and sporadic, she's not outright malicious, but she's just rolling with that neutralness of luck, it having good and bad and it comes down to karma and your own actions. She's just here to sit and watch the consequences play out. Emonette was kinda funny though she was predictable in her karma as her negative actions fed negative consequences. But man, this Marinette is freaking hilarious. Tikki is constantly eating popcorn, enjoying the show cause she never knows what she's going to get with this well meaning if all over the place Marinette.

[purrincess-chat]

Okay, but like could you imagine now that Nathalie is annoyed with Gabe, she starts helping Adrien do whatever he wants out of spite.

"Nathalie, all my friends are going to the movies. Can you ask my father if I can go?"

"Sure, one sec." *holds imaginary phone up to ear* "He said yes."

"Nathalie, is it alright if I have dinner at Marinette's house?"

"Of course. Have fun."

Gabe shows up to dinner for the first time in months and is like where tf is my son?

"He was too busy to make it tonight. I'm sure you'll understand. Maybe you'll catch him next time, sir."

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

why tf does chat noir always think that ladybug hates him she clearly doesen't? another thing that i don't underatand is adrien's logic. "ladybug probably doesen't need me anymore now that there's other hero's" and some other bullcrap. Most of the time whenever he's "saving the day" HE LITERALLY FUCKS AROUND WITH LADYBUG WHEN LIVES WHERE IN FUCKING DANGER. WERE SUPPOSED TO SEE HIM AS GOOD WHEN HE DID ALL THESE ATROCIOUS SHIT

Cat Noir: *decides to screw around during multiple Akuma fights and blatantly admits to seeing being a superhero as a game*

Ladybug: *chooses to rely on other heroes while not keeping Cat Noir up to date with top-secret information*

Cat Noir:

[familyagrestefanblog]

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised that I (personally at least) haven't seen anyone bring this up regarding how season 5 ended and what it might mean for Marinette in the future.

Of course it's important to discuss what Gabriel wished for, concidering he rewrote all of reality to his liking and we will have to deal with that. Of course thats a priority.

But there's a very specific angle that's not to be underestimated in my opinion, and I'm just surprised that even after all these months I've yet to see anyone bring it up.

The very specific angle of: Marinette Dupain-Cheng doesn't know what Gabriel Agreste actually wished for and is a highly paranoid person who thinks herself to death.

So if Cerise as Chrysalis will from season 6 onwards be out here and manage to raise the absolute hell for Marinette she's being set up to unleash, then we can absolutely reach a point where Maribug might genuinely come to the conclusion that the reality around her is the product of Gabriel wishing for Ladybug's/ Marinette's demise since that's by itself not an unreasonable conclusion to reach.

Clarification: There is this frustrating approach going around in the Fandom about the wish. Yes, one can wish for ONE thing only. Mate, if I make the wish that the earth NEVER had land mass above the water in the first place, then reality would be rebuild with a completely different chain of evolution here on earth that led to a different "equivalent" of us humans. It would change earth as we know it entirely, and yet I still only wished for ONE thing. Guys, get tf creative please.

And that would obviously mean she'd want to undo the wish to get out of this new reality bc that would in her mind be what it needs to SAVE reality from Gabriel Agreste's legacy and get back to her family, friends, to Adrien, and Chat Noir even.

You know, similar to what Toxinelle wanted.

That would also obviously include that Marinette at some point, when everything spiraled far downwards enough around her, starts mentally distancing herself from this reality she's in - like a villain, only that she's not - and comes to think of this reality and it's people kinda as "collateral damage" because whatever happens here isn't really important since Marinette wants to get back to her actual reality anyway. Meaning she might actually push away her friends and family ect.

Honestly, it all depends on how much hell Cerise/ Chrysalis raises for her. Cause once Maribug is pushed beyond a certain line she will be out here screwing herself over further and further by being caught in a mental devil's circle, where she then WILL become a person who needs to be fought/ pushed back againt for everyone's (including her own) safety but that would reinforce Marinette's paranoia that she's trapped in a reality specifically designed to turn against her.

The original mission Ladybug and Chat Noir were once chosen for is now OVER, but in Marinette’s head the war against Monarque could go on. Even Chrysalis to some degree would then merely be an extention of Gabriel in Marinette’s head. So "getting rid of her" by using the wish would on paper not be an extreme action, but merely fighting fire with fire.

And yeah, all of this would also mean that at some point Marinette would justify in her head to turn against this reality's Chat Noir, to get his Miraculous and make the wish. In her eyes she wouldnt really be betraying Chat Noir - HER Chat is waiting back in reality for her while THIS Chat was made by Gabriel to keep her here to met her demise.

(if you want it angsty, let her find out where he was locked up and by whom in the season 5 finale, without letting her know that he's Adrien Agreste. Cause Adrien and Kagami having been locked up by Gabriel (and Tomoe) in all that global chaos still meant they were save enough because of their parents being their captors, to keep them out of everything. But give her the vague information that Gabriel Agreste held Chat Noir as civilian captive under horrible nightmares too, in a different country and in some white hell cell, and you tell ME that she wont be motivated to get through this new reality's Chat Noir to get back to hers. Especially when Chrysalis is out here turning everyone against her? Of course she would want to go back to her Chat Noir who's her anchor and who sacrificed himself to keep his Miraculous safe from where he is? Which she would in turn feel horrible about cause she then LOST. Honestly, all things concidered, Adrien Agreste and Kagami Tsurugi were fine enough in Gabriel's (and Tomoe's) grasps, but what reason does Marinette have to think that Monarque would show Chat Noir the same concideration? Especially when he had just send away his Miraculous?)

Yes, this would also mean that Marinette would slowly distance herself more and more from Adrien, bc even if she thinks Gabriel made the wish in Adrien's benefit doesn't it mean Marinette agrees with the outcome. For all we know Adrien will go back to working for the Gabriel brand now so in future he can step into his "hero father's footsteps as his heir to uphold his legacy (since Adrien already HAS the needed career for it, he would just need to learn under Tomoe and Nathalie as his father's successor until he's of age)

Yes, this would mean that the friendship between Marinette and Alya would get seriously challenged since, by all means, Marinette’s dialog at the end of S5 still names Gabriel and Monarque as two seperate people. So Alya may know Gabriel Agreste made a wish, but not that Gabriel was Monarque and why Marinette is getting more and more paranoid. Add how Cerise normally tends to use Alya against Marinette, this isn't unlikely to happen again.

Alya may very likely at some point take over as team leader (the way shes set up to do) bc Ladybug doesnt trust her own team anymore and they somehow need to save her from herself.

I'm just saying. It's kinda weird for me that I saw no one ever even humoring this angle. We're talking about Marinette Dupain-Cheng, and you're trying to tell me that she's not ever going to think back to the fact that's she LOST against Hawkmoth and doesn't know what he wished for while basically being locked up in his new reality in which Lila/ Cerise will rise as the new Butterfly?

Did you WATCH the Paris special?

Come the fuck on...

[xandz89]

Some of theories in this fandom are so out of pocket or have some really crappy evidence to support it

Like Lila and Marinette being half sisters

like where tf did this come from??? And don’t say the wiki because the miraculous wiki is so inaccurate because it literally says Batman is Marinettes dad

And Chloe being based off a real person in Astruc life like I want evidence because “just a feeling” or it “looks like it” is not evidence

Also Adrien being a sentimonster is just something I struggle to believe but if you have evidence from the show I would like to see it because I would love to understand it

Theories are also really cool and I would like to understand some of them better but it’s hard for me to see without some evidence

Edit: I have realized that I confused some cannon things with theory so if you notice any more mistakes feel free to correct me

[pftones3482]

Okay I can see why people are bummed about certain parts of the Season 5 finale, but it was genuinely??? So good??? Like it was not bad at all, it's wild to me that people are calling the whole thing terrible because of like. Two plot points.

Spoilers and thoughts under the cut (in no particular order):

I fucking loved the Bug Noire design, her eyes were so COOL LOOKING

The classmates all getting their kwamis back STOP 😭😭😭😭 Wayzz and Trixx get to hang out all the time now that's so cute I'm gonna die.

I need an entire episode about what the fuck Jagged Stone, Penny, and Luka were up to because WHAT WAS THAT?

Loved getting to see the other heroes again, it was a nice change of pace

GOD TIKKI AND PLAGG??? WHAT?? The lighting in that scene was so pretty 10/10

I'm glad Gabriel fucking died he deserved it 🖕

Following that, I truly think that if Gabriel's plea had come even one season ago, I would have felt more sympathy for him. I felt none. I was rolling my eyes while he was crying. You locked your son in a literal prison Gabe. You are beyond redemption.

Really liked the parallel of this episode with Ladybug fighting w/o Chat while the classmates help out and the episode Representation, where Chat was fighting w/o Ladybug and the classmates were helping out. Not QUITE the same, but I'm glad we did get a fairly Chat-centric episode before the finale

Adrien absolutely deserves to know that his father was Hawkmoth. But he's also had like. The SHITTIEST fucking life the last year or two. His mom fucking died, his dad stopped being a dad, he was overworked, never allowed to see friends, was a whole ass superhero on top of that, and then his father sent him to a different fucking country so he couldn't be with his girlfriend. And then said father DIES and suddenly his mom is magically alive and Nathalie isn't on deaths door??? Yeah, I'd give him some time to process and just be a kid for once too. He is definitely going to find out, and when it does it'll be angsty and I will enjoy it

I really hope they don't drag out the Lila plot five more seasons. This show has fallen victim to the "too many seasons" problem and at this point I'm mostly in it for the kwamis and the classmates relationships lol

God poor Nooroo can't catch a break 😭

While I was low-key hoping for a reveal, it would have felt really forced and out of place given that Chat Noir literally didn't show up until the very end of the season finale, so I'm glad they didn't shoehorn it in

Alya. Round of a fucking plause for Alya please and thank you. Also please I need more of her and Plagg they were adorable the way he went to her for help when he couldn't find Marinette

Actually round of applause for all the classmates trying their damnedest to keep the city from falling to chaos I love them all so much together

Love that these kids have just fully accepted that their principal is a little wacky and they continue to include him

BABY BUSTIER I WOULD DIE FOR YOU

Marinette was so fucking snappy and good with the comebacks during her fight with Gabriel it was fantastic

Also the way she reacted to seeing him as Gabriel was INSANE the animators did such a good job with that

Back to Alya for a hot sec, the way she looked at Nino during the classmates group hug was so soft 😭❤️

Adrien understanding that he was at high risk of hurting the world as Chat Noir and being under the influence of nightmares is such a mature move. Alya realizing the same thing? God give them more SCENES together

Once again. TIKKI AND PLAGG???? TF???

In conclusion:

The finale wasn't bad, you guys are just upset there wasn't a reveal and that Adrien still doesn't know his dad was a literal terrorist. Which is valid, you can be upset about it, but the rest of the finale was pretty damn satisfying and it's a disservice to the crew who worked on it to just dismiss it entirely.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Saw this on Twitter: "if i had a boyfriend i would put him in a giant maze and watch him solve various puzzles in order to receive bits of cheese as a reward," and all I can think about is a tourist akuma who's so angry at their S/O being so obsessed with fancy French cheese instead of the ambient romance they get akumatized and do this. "You want your cheese? Go get your fckin cheese!" And Adrien has to repeatedly stop Plagg from getting into the maze & LB is just "Chat, where tf are you?"

That's fucking GREAT actually

[astriddestelle]

Fanfic ideas I want to write before I finally outgrow it (I feel it slowly happening)

- a Draco/Tom fic cause there aren’t a lot and I lowkey love this and why tf not, Tom comes to the future

- A time travel fix it (Cept chaos is a petty bitch and as such different things happen, Ginny won’t have the diary, different champions etc)

- go back and finish my Draco/Harry/Tom fic (they got forcibly bound during the triwizard tournament)

- a code lyoko soulmate au (different tropes for different pairings)

- a American dragon one shot. I just love that show.

- a sky high miraculous fic (enemies to lovers Marinette and adrien)

- Mai in the past time travel au (after the boiling rock she dies and wakes up in the past) debating if I have Azula for to and their both in the past like that epsiode of Family Guy where Brian and Stewie get killed by each other and meet up in heaven like heyyyyy

- a secret Santa Drarry (Harry gets a shitty gift while Draco puts his all into it feelings abound)

- Albus and Scorpius back in the past fanfic (after fighting off Delphani and Cedric they end up in the DOM during the fight)

- a Drarry with draco learning muggle things (after the war eight year) road trip to muggle Disney land Paris, watching Disney movies

- finish my butterfly effect au (Draco gets the diary whoops)

- a time swapping mha one shot (they switch places with their older selves heijinks insue)

- time travel mha dating reveal (I found this on someone blog, bakugo ends up in his past body for a day and accidentally kisses his future spouse whelp)

- maybe a young Justice fic (Wally west is best enough said)

- finish my stranger things fics (will crushes on Steve, Mike is not amused.)

- A will comes out the upside down three years later meets Jason write in time for Vecna

- stranger things road trip au where Mike realizes he’s been in love with Will this whole time, good thing everyone else assumes they’ve been dating the whole time

- stranger things au where will was forced to live with Lonnie after season 2, comes back season 4 a changed man.

Holy shit this is a lot lmao why am I like this 😭😭

[mraculous]

*slams eighth shot of whiskey* okay listen i gotta get this out before more episodes come out, invalidating it all, but can we TALK about the adjusted dynamics of the lovesquare, stick to the end for me losing my mind about ladrien

I never read the bible so no spoilers there, but spoilers for the tfou apocalypse up through elation/exaltation

Ladynoir. The classic. The OG.

We're in a unique position with them because, Ladynoir has historically had 2 distinct dynamics: 1 when Ladybug thought Chat Noir was just flirting and he thought he had a chance, and one when she knew he loved her, and he knew she didn't.

When she was oblivious, it was flirt central! it was cute! light! fun! In the second, it was sad (we the audience knew that lb DID in fact love cn back, just, behind the mask. yakno, the classic, the og) and somewhat frustrating bc we wanted CN to chill tf out, which, eventually, he did, all the while still loving his lady

Now? NOW???? Y'all it's BOTH

Chat Noir doesn't KNOW (yet) that Ladybug is in love with him. He just thinks she's flirting, or testing him.

But Ladybug DOES know. She KNOWS he doesn't love her. When CN was in this phase, flirting to an oblivious LB, he still had hope that she would love him or at least he lived for the moments she flirted back, but NOW?? Ladybug knows!!! She knows exquisitely that CN does not love Ladybug anymore. (even though we AND LB know that he does love her, just behind the mask)

It's just such a beautiful reversal chefs kiss mwah

I basically just keep thinking of that sad look CN gave her when Glaciator was screaming about how CN should love LB, and that little comforting pet she gave him. Tears.

the other sides under the cut

Adrienette. Our cute blushing oblivious babies.

Tbh team? I'm not sure where this one will go! Don't have a lot to say about it that the show hasn't already. Adrien fell for Marinette hook line and sinker, we all saw it coming we're all just happy to be here. Marinette is afraid to love him and "no alya he's just a friend" I'm just thrilled to see where this goes

(especially now that Adrien has kissed Marinette???? AND that he knows she doesn't love him anymore??? I Am All In)

(but also we the viewers have just a little drop of sadness/frustration too in this because, like, We Know!!! we've been here the whole time!! You DUMMIES YOU LOVE EACH OTHER and this is RIDICULOUS and UNNECESSARILY TRAGIC just LKAJSD;FLKJ anyway)

Marichat. Okayokayokayokayokayokayokayokay

In Ye Olden Dayes, Marichat was the sin ship. But even before that, it was always the side of the square where there was no performance, no pretension, just two people who were friends (but didn't know how good) hanging out with lots of chemistry but no blushing.

But now WWHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO BOOI I mean the fact that marichat was the first side to consensually, of sound mind, and in the canon timeline, kiSS is bonkers to me, congrats to taylordraws for predicting the future I guess

But! Now!!!! They love each other!! If they're ever around each other again it's going to be a bluSHING NIGHTMARE especially since them being together caused Marinette to almost get akumatized, and that they both understand it can't work, there'S THAT HINT OF SADNESS r u sensing a theme

But okay, that thing I just said 20 words ago, them being a blushing nightmare, it's because this is the side that's in love with each other. Marinette < - > Chat Noir it's a two way door okay and that's what ladrien used to be and what ladrien was based on. But now we have the ladrien dynamic + sads + MORE KNOWLEDGE + EVEN MORE DRAMATIC IRONY and frankly I'm alive

Ladrien. *smashes whiskey glass on floor and screams*

FOLKS. WHEN I TELL YOU. I AM FROTHING AT THE MOUTH FOR LADRIEN CONTENT NOW MORE THAN EVER let me tell u why

I'm a longtime Ladrien stan. I just think they're neat. I just think they should kiss. A li'l smooch. The first fic I ever wrote for this fandom was a ladrien "almost kiss UST" one shot.

But now? NOW??

Ladrien is now the Marichat dynamic. Marichat and Ladrien have flipped. Before, Ladrien was the two way love street, and Marichat was the platonic "no pretenses" street. Now, Marichat has taken on Ladrien's vibe (with some extra Sadness TM), so what has Ladrien become?

You'd think, oh it's just marichat now, no pretenses, they know they don't love each other, easy, *kisses you on the mouth* NO.

Picture this. Ladrien bathroom balcony scene. Or Ladybug saves Adrien. Whatever. All the reasons the show has given us for our heroes/civilians to interact outside their partnerships. With Marichat, they're cursed by knowledge. They know they love the other, but that the other doesn't love them (or so they think). With Ladrien, there's no such curse.

For Adrien? He looks at Ladybug, the girl he used to love. Used to. Past tense. All those pictures on his phone, his silly date ideas, his puns and flirting, that's all in the past now. She made it clear she doesn't love him back, and besides, he loves someone else now. He'll always love her like a friend, of course, she's his best friend, but... anything else is too hard.

For Ladybug? She looks at Adrien. The boy she used to love. She probably still does a little bit but it's different now. How it used to be, all that flailing around, the ridiculous schemes, the presents, the obsession, that's done. He might think he loves her now, but, no, she loves someone else. Outside of the mask, she's still his friend, of course, but, how it was before? It was just too hard.

Basically: THE BIG SADS. These two are exes, they're forlorn lovers, they're each other's "one that got away." But without either of them truly knowing why, or how, or even with the benefit of a real "we were together, now we're apart." These two moved past their unrequited love for each other through sheer force of will and lack of communication and now... now what are they?

I for one am frOTHING AT THE MOUTH TO FIND OUT

[miraculousalt]

Kuro Neko really out here getting unbearably worse and worse each passing day when u keep thinking about other things that happened in the season. Other make up talks they had

The Ladynoir ending is such a respectless toxic garbage fire, I can't believe Marinette got away with pullin all THAT and was rewarded with a perfect therapy cat partner now. Just straight up ignored his existence when he met her up in the end til he took ALL the blame

SHE ordered him to come back after Cat Walker failed the mission and she missed Chat. Chat quit and she just made him come back by telling CW the old chats to return n when he returns she's unwilling to take an ounce of the blame she had in this. How much can one abuse their guardian status to get away with everything? Chats beside her insulting himself and comparing his valid emotions to a tantrum of a damn BABY and LB is just here like "yes you are awful, everything is your fault and I was inconvenienced by ur selfish hissy fit. I'm the poor victim. But I'm so nice to want you back anyway :))"

Charming gurl, real charming right there...

I wished Adrien never returned in that episode. How little respect can u have for your partner since the beginning u KNOW and admitted you didn't notice how much he's hurtin?

He's forgiving her because he thinks she's treating everyone equally bc he doesn't know about Rena. Marinette is taking full advantage of him not knowing so HE takes the blame and she doesn't have to. Dnt know about u but I concider that nothing but selfish. Nice, thanks Miraculous for showing me how o take advantage of people and get away with it I guess??

And oc Adrien still doesn't know about Ladybug having a 2nd partner behind his back n he stays all alone. Of course not what does that matteeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr

This episode killed Ladynoir for me The following 3 episodes held the funeral and said goodbye for good. There is "letting your main character fuck up in a season of high stress" and whatever tf these 4 episodes where. From KN onwards Adrien wnnt back into a toxic dynamic under undignified terms and Marinette gets CELEBRATED for it because she's la gardienne and at least stopped yelling so what more is there to be asked for?

Maybe I çan ship them again in season 5. I really liked the LS once. But only if Marinette's finally not made to benefit so grossly from Adrien being abused to 7 hells n back. That's a shitty ass look for the ship while oc he's still left at Gabriels mercy. But good to know Marinettes fine!