#also i choose to use the term queer and im not going to debate that with anyone sorry

[diamondcitydarlin]

what do you think about the arguments that lokius is being queerbaited? I want to enjoy and ship it so bad but it seems like im setting myself up for disappointment

And I can't assure you with full confidence that you wouldn't be. I can't be certain I won't be, though I've personally chosen to enjoy what is there and extrapolate from what we are given, even as I know that historically, statistically, it's best to assume a mainstream depiction of a m/m relationship in a Disney-Marvel production is pretty slim. But then...not nonexistent and, in many ways, the likelihood of it actually going there is higher than it's ever been. So there is that.

I've been independently studying LGBTQA+/queer representation in mainstream media for over a decade now. The term 'queerbaiting' is relatively new in fandom spaces (if we're looking big picture, back into the earliest films and TV shows, some of the earliest shipping fandoms like Star Trek), as I only started seeing it maybe around 2012-2014. It's a term I appreciate, because it represented a switch in cultural thinking from holding no expectations of creatives in Hollywood to large swaths of LGBTQA+ fans gaining the confidence to say 'no, this isn't good enough'.

It also represents the switch in Capitalist approaches to LGBTQA+ citizens, from catering solely to the religious, satanic panic morality by pretending gay people simply don't exist, to deciding that gay fans are in fact lucrative and need to be included just enough to feel inclined to monetarily contribute to a brand. They'll write scenes between characters with intentionally confusing, ambiguous energy, give them moments that are meant to be read into deeply, but rarely, rarely, with any kind of payoff that would alienate homophobic investors. The insidiousness of this tactic is in the fact that when payoff does not happen, viewers can be easily gaslit into thinking that was never the intention in the first place, they were the ones who were wrong in their takes. As I've worked professionally in entertainment as actress, director and producer with rather big capitalist brands I won't mention names of, I can assure you this -is- very much a thing, please stop giving corporations the benefit of the doubt.

There is no clean definition or qualification for queerbaiting, despite how often people want to gatekeep how gay viewers use this term. To be clear though, it is an accountability term before anything else. Not an insult, not an accusation that someone isn't good at what they do, it's a reminder that we're owed more than what we're usually given. If we don't speak out, if we don't label things queerbaiting (when they very much usually are), if we don't demand better we will never, ever, ever get it. I promise you that.

Okay, so now that we've established what queerbaiting is at least in my mind...

Do I think Lokius is being queerbaited? Yes, possibly. I'm waiting to see how the rest of the narrative plays out before I come to a definitive conclusion on my own (yes I'm actually optimistic I say as I put on clown make up), but I'm also not going to deny LGBTQA+ fans the right to feel like that's what's happening and voice their opinions. Anyone tasked with writing/creating content for mainstream audiences has a huge responsibility, in that this content will reach millions of people and has the potential to help shape our culture, perceptions- it even has the potential to help normalize and give broad optics of what it means to be queer and have queer relationships, romantic and otherwise. None of this is as trifling as, 'it's just a TV show', because it's never that simple.

As far as Lokius itself is concerned, the show spent a great deal of time first developing their bond and dynamic before (seemingly) switching gears towards elevating romantically the first feminine-presenting character Loki ran into even though there are some clear, uhm...conflicts with the idea of this actually being a thing. If it becomes a thing. It also seemed to first build a solid, unique platonic bond between the 'fem' and 'masc' character that a lot of gay fans would have appreciated seeing playing out before having them mashed together haphazardly as a romantic pairing, as has been done in media for 50+ years now. That's to say nothing of the fact that the most visible feminine character being forced into role of 'love interest' for a broken main character is one we've had to see play out over and over and over and over again too, poorly. People have a right to feel frustrated about that and voice their frustrations accordingly. We expected more of this show than that. (And yes, I am bisexual, I know that it would still technically be a queer relationship, but please consider the broader history/picture here of queer rep in media and the optics of that against that mosaic, please consider the heteronormative lens that so often claims any and every possibility for itself, please consider the long history of how feminine characters are often used as coping tools and objects of lust before they are treated as individuals deserving of their own development)

Now, again, I want to say that I am not convinced of anything really right now. I'm not taking any of the writers at face value because they are all bound by contracts and NDAs and aren't going to come out and say what the outcome of the show will be, so nothing they're putting out on twitter or in interviews is something I will be taking as absolute truth beyond assuming they're trolling, maybe even have been instructed to keep the pot boiling in the fandom through social media antics. Don't rule it out.

Things really could go either way, but my point is I do not deny the possibility of what this is and I'm certainly not going to gatekeep how other gay viewers feel they're being queerbaited, and I really don't see any reason why anyone else should either.

[adamsvanrhijn]

not to be very annoying, but do you happen to know any good books/resources about lgbt slang/identities in victorian/edwardian/etc england? (i mean, things such as lesbians calling each other "toms" and the like). don't worry if you don't know any, but i just figured i'd ask since this was kinda in your Area Of Interest so you might know some off the top of your head.

the not annoying at all but this is a more complex question than at first glance hahaha

TL;DR: there are many types of queer language / we have way more info about men, who have their own lexicon / this era is widely seen as the era in which the concept of identity is actually coming into play / books list at the end, scroll down til you reach bolded text if you don’t want my commentary.

so when you’re looking at mid 19th - interwar lgbt communities, whether in europe or the uk or the usa it doesn’t really matter bc this is quite universal, you’ve got at least three registers, for lack of an easier word:

how self-identified homosexual, inverted, queer, abnormal etc men (henceforth gay men) speak with each other

how self-identified “” women (henceforth lesbian women) speak with each other

interactions between these groups

these naturally intersect with other socioeconomic class factors.

back to england specifically:

despite legal considerations gay men have the most agency and ability to move around and therefore are more likely to interact with each other and form communities. so now you have additional registers:

upper middle / upper class

middle / lower middle / working class (more registers here but nobody asked me and i promise i will give you recs soon)

again, interactions between them

the latter category has limited applications; most of them have to do with prostitution or casual sex and tend to be about categorizing people in terms of what sex acts they participate in. (this is universally true of most forms of gay slang and/or their origins for obvious reasons) think locker room talk. OR, we’re looking at cross class relationships and how other people view members of cross class relationships. not to generalize bc there are other things than this but what is best documented here is the upper class pov of these interactions

for the first category there is much less slang & unique community language, when you look at letters and works of literature etc etc people are picking and choosing from both medical/psychiatric terminology, which is developing rapidly from the 1860s on, and like, classical works; you get a lot of alluding to things. artistic communities (bloomsbury group, natalie clifford barney’s harem in paris and what have you) meanwhile are sort of all over the map. but bc this isn’t Polite Society talk, most of the sources for this kind of language tend to be limited in scope. which is true for all subculture language really but like in this case, authors of the day who are writing what they know are we think giving a pretty accurate picture of what their actual communities were like... but it’s put through a filter for publication.

by the 20th century urban working class gay men in certain circles are using polari, a subcultural lexicon which came from mid/late 19th century theatre and music hall slang, which came from fairground cant, seafaring , labor slang, Yiddish, cockney, theatre slang, fishmarkets, French, Italian, underground crime rings literally i could go on and there’s lots of debate about this. it’s turn of the century when it comes to be used very widely within the gay community, and while its origins are in london it made it to other uk urban centres fairly quickly. this lasted well into the latter half of the 20th century and is the base for a lot of community slang today, which leads me to

lesbian women, who also used polari, albeit to a lesser extent. these were primarily lesbians who were also in the 3rd camp above - ones who are involved in the community and interacting w/ gay men regularly. (”straight women who work in theatre” is another category of woman polari speakers haha but performance slang went thru many changes and eventually things got p separate so you had fairground & theatre cant and gay subculture slang having similar roots but very distinct in usage)

for lesbian communities the same thing as w gay men applies for the upper classes just to a lesser degree due to the relative lack of a community experienced by women

but a very important point here is that, ESPECIALLY during the victorian period, less so moving into the 20th century, intimate relationships between women are viewed very, very differently than those between men - male relationships have hard and fast boundaries of what is and isnt acceptable, those of women do not. 

the development of identity w/ sexuality for women i think in many ways had a lot more to do with women who expressed their gender differently than women who had intimate exclusive relationships w/ other women 

anyway the point is there unfortunately is no like comprehensive text for All Queer Language at this point in time, nor for the development of sexual identity, and the nature of this field (linguistics + history + sociology about queer stuff) means that a lot of the good work is in academic articles which i do NOT know off the top of my head. :-( but here’s some stuff !!

LIST OF THE ACTUAL BOOKS SORRY ABOUT ALL THAT

ok so these are all nonfiction, mostly academic nonfiction, but i want to stress that contemporary literature is a REALLY good way to get a (often rose tinted but not always) look into subculture and there are many novels that play with and/or poke at the ongoing development of sexual identity, especially in edwardia, especially especially in the 1920s, so if youve got endless time to read on your hands it is absolutely worth poking around there.

i have a list in the works of 1920s literature that has lgbt stuff in it and i realise thats a bit late for you but even so!!

also: compilations of letters, memoirs, etc are like super super invaluable 

anyway ive bolded the most important ones:

Kosofsky Sedgwick, Eve. Epistemology of the Closet. 1990. University of California Press. [required lgbt theory reading, literally the foundation for soooo much]

Marcus, Sharon. Between Women: Friendship, Desire, and Marriage in Victorian England. 2007. Princeton University Press.

Robb, Graham. Strangers: Homosexual Love in the Nineteenth Century. 2003. [this is like, functionally prerequisite reading for any gay male stuff for the 19th century & robb is an excellent popular historian who also has an actual academic background]

Rupp, Leila J. Sapphistries: A Global History of Love between Women. 2008. NYU Press.

Russett, Cynthia. Sexual Science: The Victorian Construction of Womanhood. 1989. Harvard University Press. [touches on things but is not About sexuality/identity]

these are both already on my downton abbey research list but they both discuss language thruout and identity very thoroughly:

Brady, Sean. Masculinity and Male Homosexuality in Britain, 1861-1913. 2005. Palgrave Macmillan.

David, Hugh. On Queer Street: A Social History of British Homosexuality 1895-1995. 1997. HarperCollins.

for polari, see basically everything paul baker’s done. the 2019 might be the most accessible but i havent read it yet:

Baker, Paul. Fantabulosa: A dictionary of Polari & gay slang. 2002. London: Continuum.

Baker, Paul. Polari: The Lost Language of Gay Men (Routledge Studies in Linguistics). 2002. London: Routledge.

Baker, Paul. Fantabulosa! The Story of Polari, Britain’s Secret Gay Language. 2019. London: Reaktion.

while it predates the era youre asking about, this book is good reading that leads up to the changes of the victorian era in sexual morality & how that affects identity and language:

Donoghue, Emma. Passions Between Women: British Lesbian Culture 1668–1801. 1995. HarperCollins.

also i hate to do this but like. foucault lol. obviously not focused on britain but very much focused on the development of identity and sexuality. 

ive been working on this for like three straight hours im gonna go eat lunch now

[bondsmagii]

what embarassing/annoying things lgbt people do online? I dont spend a lot of time on the internet outside of my niche so im genuinely curious

god where do I even start… to be honest I’ve always been wary of communities in general because personal experience has taught me that things get weird fast, but I’ve never seen anything quite like LGBT circles online. some of the things I notice fairly frequently:

making everything about being LGBT to a freaky level; I just don’t think it’s healthy to have your gender and/or sexuality be your entire personality

related to this, making everything the x experience – the gay experience, the trans experience, etc. many of the things mentioned are things that everyone experiences, and most disturbingly, many of the things lauded as the x experience are actually symptoms of extreme trauma (feeling like there’s something inherently wrong with you, feeling lonely, constantly yearning but not knowing for what, etc). even if this trauma is related to your being LGBT, it isn’t healthy and people shouldn’t be accepting it as normal and encouraging it in others. trauma isn’t natural.

the top/bottom thing. like. ugh. I’m a dude in a relationship with another dude so this really makes me uncomfortable. the importance put on if someone is a top or a bottom, assigning personality traits to people based on this, saying stupid shit like “bottoms can’t park” or whatever, and just the extreme fascination with if someone is a top or a bottom… it’s very fetishising. even if people are talking about themselves, that’s still a detail of your sexual life that I do not want to know. it’s not appropriate to talk like that in front of strangers.

going on from this, how overly sexual a large chunk of the community seems to be. it’s not appropriate. I know this one isn’t LGBT specific, but in my personal experiences my straight/cis friends do not talk like this, but if someone finds out I’m LGBT too, they seem to think it’s fine to start talking in detail about their sex life/ask me invasive questions about mine. it’s not fine.

the really fetishising treatment of male/male couples even in the LGBT community is really… not good. my relationship isn’t a cute commodity that only exists for your fandoms.

the misandry is absolutely atrocious. lesbians are out there thinking it’s fine to declare men useless just because they don’t need us for sex; bi women are out there lamenting the fact they’re attracted to us disgusting men and why couldn’t they just be a lesbian. I’ve even seen bi women say they’re going to just ignore their attraction to men and choose women, perpetrating harmful myths that a) you can choose your sexuality and b) bisexuals are just faking and are capable of just “picking a side”.

the community has an extreme problem with policing one another and a lot of issues that they spend time and energy debating are pointless and just stupid, if I’m honest.

the fact that vehement hate is seen as OK so long as it’s directed against straight, cis people. it’s not.

the fact that cis, straight people can’t even mention the above point without being ripped apart, ridiculed, harrassed, insulted, and threatened is also not OK.

the diluting of actual important terms. “transphobia” and “homophobia” grow murkier by the day; people are being accused of these incredibly serious prejudices over stupid Tumblr arguments that rarely have anything to do with actual issues or aggressions.

the idea that if you’re LGBT you’re automatically free of blame, innocent, can do no wrong, etc. there are nasty people of every gender and sexuality. you’re not except from being abusive, oppressive, etc just because you yourself are a minority.

the fact that people out there reclaiming “queer” think they can call everyone in the LGBT community “queer” and if someone protests they’re “speaking over” them or setting back the movement or whatever. I have no problem if you identify that way, but I am not queer. I’m bi.

at least on this website it’s L rather than LGBT: ➡ gay men are shat on almost as badly as straight men, unless they’re trans, and then they’re treated like cute uwu transboys who are somehow exempt from the hatred levelled at cis men, proving that these people don’t see them as “real” men. ➡bi people (if acknowledged as bi and not just the umbrella term “gay”) suffer from a whole lot of internal prejudices, with bi women being seen/encouraged to be “lesbians” and bi men just not fucking mentioned at all. also we’re usually completely forgotten about; characters can’t be bi, they have to be gay (and shipping them with a member of the opposite sex is seen as “erasure”) or they’re straight. ➡ trans people get incredible amounts of transphobia within the community from cis LGBT people; trans men, as mentioned above, aren’t treated as “real” men and are seen as Men Lite™, and the arguments for this (that they don’t share the same chemical biology as men; that they were “raised as girls”) are transphobic and also dysphoric as hell. trans women get shit from all sides and there’s an incredible TERF problem in the community, especially among lesbians. 

basically everyone is infighting, perpetrating harmful myths, speaking over people, forcing adherence to behaviours many might not be comfortable with, and generally being generalising, inappropriate, and wholly embarrassing. the way the community has got on over the last few years alone has probably set the movement back a decade.

[haich-slash-cee]

Is the print publishing world picking up online/fandom terms? How they are using them? How do we feel about this?

So this is... attention-getting, for folks who like to follow publishing and meta stuff.

https://twitter.com/sapphicxrey/status/1215065948677443584

https://twitter.com/TorDotComPub/status/1233391556750647299

(2nd tweet -- TW, mentions of non-con)

Are we seeing the beginnings of book publishers directly borrowing from online/fandom culture in promoting their books? How do we feel about these examples?

More below cut.

Exhibit #1: screenshots of Bonds of Brass promo from Jan 8 2020. (Which is probably going to have reactions of “haha, cute” at most.)

Transcript of blurb: 

“If you like... 

forbidden romances, “there’s only one bed”, cityships, weaponized umbrellas, powersuits, secret princes, best friends, best friends PINING, fake dating between PINING best friends, tactical streaking, the minivan of starships, cigar-chomping cyborg ladies, scary empress moms, galactic-level bisexual disasters, LEGACY (WHAT IS A LEGACY?), rooftop hopping, golden trios, rumblin’ drums, bootleg fireworks, BIG SPACE BATTLES PEW PEW, a surprisingly functional public transit system, mob trouble, one hell of a pilot, the inherent DRAMA of empire, a nice interlude in a river, smoking a joint that’s been on the floor, sick stunts, slick grifts, hiding in a dumpster, or any combination of the above,

 Then you might like 

BONDS OF BRASS”

The Twitter responses seem to be generally enthusiastic. (And also, “FinnPoe! FinnPoe!”)

Personally, I’m intrigued from a meta-view of “oh so that’s definitely pulling from online world and fanfiction world, interesting. I wonder how much fanfiction culture is starting to influence print book culture and promotion.” Maybe I’ve got some questions like, “Ok so moneymaking companies such as Penguin are now using culture developed by the not-moneymaking-world of fanfiction? How do we feel about this?” Anyway, the book looks cute, I’m interested enough and I might get it from the library.

I suspect many people’s reactions are along the lines of “hm, interesting”, “sounds like a lark”, or “haha they’re using AO3 tags as promo”, etc. 

Exhibit #2, screenshots of DOCILE promo, from Feb 28 2020 (today is March 1 2020), and screenshots of Twitter responses so far:

(*CW, non-con discussion)

Tweet transcript:

“DOCILE by @KMSzpara:  

-Dubcon/Noncon 

-Dramatic Trillionaire Content 

-BDSM and then some more BDSM and then a lot more BDSM

 -Hurt/comfort and hurt/no comfort

 -Cinnamon roll of steel 

-The most scandalous kink: love 

-Courtroom, bedroom, & Preakness drama

[Tor book website link]”

So this is getting mixed reactions on Twitter. All dozen or so reactions, so far. Here’s text transcripts and bio info from repliers, below. I’m being a little obsessive, mostly to show that there’s a mix of queer, book-ish people in the replies (including the author).)

Noncon is nonconsentual sex, rape. Even in fandom it's a content tag, not a promotional term. I can't imagine being a rape survivor and seeing this come across my TL. -- @WriteSomeGood [queer rainbow] [Cis queer homemaker, aspiring author, maker of incredible cinnamon buns. She/her] [has a Tumblr page]

I’m not a survivor but it was an instant “no thank you” from me. And I was sincerely looking forward to this prior to. This is the most immediately off-putting marketing push I’ve seen for a book in a long damn time. -- @AGAWilmot [Author, editor, artist. Co-EIC of @anathemaspec. @SFU alum. The Death Scene Artist/W&W 2018. Ace/enby. They/them. Horror is my comfort food.]

Whichever intern wrote this tweet, deserves a full time job. With benefits. -- @simeontsanev [Aspiring writer, post-aspiring musician, and overall geek  He/Him /[queer rainbow]/ To the world we dream about, and the one we live in now! http://simeontsanev.com]

Idk why everyone thinks it’s always an intern writing copy and not a team comprised of extremely skilled social media experts, editors, publicists and marketers, and their assistants  I worked on those tags with my editor and a good friend!! -- @KMSzpara [Kellan. [queer rainbow]  Speculative fiction writer. Queer agenda.  Hugo & Nebula finalist.  DOCILE 3/3/20 from Tor Dot Com Publishing.  He/him.  Rep @suddenlyjen] *The author, bio page and twitter page.

this is CUTE! -- @MSSciarappa  [queer rainbow] I do books. he/him.

I am Extremely Ready for this content thank u -- @JessicaBCooper [Journo ☽ Writer of faerie, villain fuckery & cruel desires ☽ Lestat & Loki's love child ☽ Aleksander Morozova's side-hoe ☽ Rep'd by Kate Testerman @ktliterary]

I’m listening -- @MerynLobb [Government worker. Weightlifter. Nihilist. Aspiring cult leader. Avid user of words, often bad ones. #AMM R6 Mentee. she/her]

Soon! Soon!! -- @castrophony [Geek. Gamer. Cosplayer. Bibliophile. Scientist. She/Her.]

[happy reaction gif] -- @TorDotComPub [Providing a home for writers to tell SFF stories in exactly the number of words they choose. All our titles are available globally in print and DRM-free ebook.]

[throwing stuff in dumpster, unhappy reaction gif] -- @cursedgravy  [name's xavi, im a transman and i like to daydream about making content] 

For more context, here’s the blurb from the author website. Below is the blurb from the publisher’s site:

“Docile

K.M. Szpara

K. M. Szpara's Docile is a science fiction parable about love and sex, wealth and debt, abuse and power, a challenging tour de force that at turns seduces and startles.

There is no consent under capitalism.

To be a Docile is to be kept, body and soul, for the uses of the owner of your contract. To be a Docile is to forget, to disappear, to hide inside your body from the horrors of your service. To be a Docile is to sell yourself to pay your parents' debts and buy your children's future.

Elisha Wilder’s family has been ruined by debt, handed down to them from previous generations. His mother never recovered from the Dociline she took during her term as a Docile, so when Elisha decides to try and erase the family’s debt himself, he swears he will never take the drug that took his mother from him.

Too bad his contract has been purchased by Alexander Bishop III, whose ultra-rich family is the brains (and money) behind Dociline and the entire Office of Debt Resolution. When Elisha refuses Dociline, Alex refuses to believe that his family’s crowning achievement could have any negative side effects—and is determined to turn Elisha into the perfect Docile without it.

Content warning: Docile contains forthright depictions and discussions of rape and sexual abuse.”

So that’s a lot of info and reactions.

Personally: at first glance, I absently skimmed the tweet and “hurt/comfort” popped out, and I was like “What? Mainstream publishing is cool with this now? I was wondering if ‘hurt/comfort’ would one day become commonly used in publishing [related post]. But this is way sooner than I thought.” And then I read the rest of of the tweet and thought, “Wait, what?” 

And then I started reading through the tweet replies and thought, “OK, at the risk of getting a bunch of Tumblr drama, I want to bring this to the whump community and see how people feel."

As for myself, one of my squicks is non-con, and I’m not really interested in hurt/no comfort. So just from the tweet, I know the book is not for me. The official blurbs confirmed that. In this sense, this is like skimming Ao3 tags on a fic and saying “pass” on a story.

However, I have questions about the specific promotion of the book. So the official blurbs are pretty standard. What about that tweet, which Tor (and the author, who helped put it together) put out? Because I think an official publisher’s Tweet comes with different context than Ao3 tags.

First, the different internet spaces. You can filter tags on Ao3 and Tumblr. I know you can mute words on Twitter, but is that the same thing? Also, would people be expecting these tags on Twitter? Compared to Ao3 or Tumblr or Tumblr Whump spaces?

Within the Tumblr Whump community, from what I’ve browsed, the community attitude (guidelines?) seem to be “Write and discuss what you want. Be sure to tag it, use content warnings, or otherwise clearly communicate if you have things that may be triggering. Respect people’s squicks/triggers. Walk away from what you don’t like.” Like, tumblr whump has a very specific culture of trying to balance discourse/stories about potentially very dark stuff, but also wanting to make sure the IRL people and Tumblr users are okay. There’s always posts going around about how to do this, are we doing this in the right way, ethics, so on. Also -- and people can correct me -- the whump tumblr space might be where tags are content warnings for people to stay away, and also what people might actively look for. So if any space is going to discuss if this promotional tweet checks out, I feel like it’s this space. 

Also, to note again, Tor Tweets are in the money-official-publisher-world, not unpaid-tumblr-people or unpaid-fanfiction-fandom-world.

Maybe I just want to ask, “Hey those first two tweet responses, does they have a point? Tor using ‘noncon’ as official promotion? On Twitter?” I mean, I’ve previously written, “The CW and TW tags that Ao3 writers use, I really wish those were used with published books as well.” But somehow, the Tor tweet was not quite what I was expecting. Maybe for reasons similar to that first tweet response. (I guess one could debate if a tweet is really promotion or just information... you know what someone can correct me, but I’m gonna say that a Tor.com tweet is promotion, compared to information like Ao3, and that tweet was there for promotion.)

Those tags operate within specific Ao3 and Tumblr cultures and infrastructure. I don’t hang around Twitter for whump stuff, IDK what the culture is. Anyway, does dropping these tags into a promotional tweet from Tor.... translate?

The tweet is evidently gathering the people who are there for it, and the people who aren’t there for it are quickly realizing that they are not there for it. But personally, the Tor website blurb does a better job at that, using writing that I’d expect from a publisher for communicating fictional non-con situations. (Maybe the blurb content warnings are what I wanted more of, when I said I wished for CW and TW in books.)

Anyway, there’s no huge drama about that Docile book promo on Twitter, as far as I can tell. So this is a niche thing, right now. But. The promo for Bonds of Brass and for Docile might be the beginnings of a trend of well-known book publishers borrowing from online writing / fandom culture and terminology in order to promote or categorize their books. These two promos might set a precedent or have other significance.

So if anyone has discourse on the tweets or potential future trends... 

[kiefercat]

30 Day Trans-Challenge except not really bc my memory is too bad for that so you get it all now Little intro and context for new followers and also for me when I look back at this; I'm a 22 year old trans guy from Canada. I've been out since I was 16 and have been on T for 5 years in October. My top surgery is scheduled for 2019 with Dr McLean in Mississauga, Ontario. 1) When did you realize the term transgender referred to you? In grade 10 one of my best friends started transitioning to male. It was my first exposure to anything trans and everything just fell into place after that. I talked to my partner at the time about it a lot and how my identity suddenly started making sense. After around half a year i started going by male pronouns with my friends and I came out publicly a year later. 2) How did you choose your name, and what names were you thinking about using and why? Contrary to popular belief I didn't choose Cooper because of my high school obsession with Alice Cooper. I ripped it off of a cartoon character that had no discernible gender to me. I was also debating going by Kiefer but after some research found out it connects to Cooper like Bob to Robert and just rolled with it. At some point before transition I asked mom what she would have named me if I was born a boy and she said fucking Wayney (dad's name is Wayne) and yeah no I did not want that name at all 3) Have you ever been outed? Quite often. Surprisingly from the people closest to me. My mom and stepdad out me all the time and my best friend/ex gf used to do it a lot too. She stopped thankfully but my mom keeps insisting on making me a discussion topic 4) How did your family take it when you came out/ if you are not out why aren't you? I came out in stages to my family. Mom was first. I fucked up though and forgot I had a stepbrother and basically walked up to her one day and said “you only have a son” and then ran out of the room? She thought I was running away????? Woops. She was kind of ignorant about some stuff for a while but changed a lot of her views pretty quick. She wasn't initially going to let me medically transition before I was 18 but turned around over time and I started t at 17. Stepdad was awkward but supportive. I didn't come out to my dad. My mom had to for me a year after I'd been out to everyone else. I was terrified of rejection bc yay abandonment issues but it went over well! Right after I came out my dad started dating my step mom and she really helped things bc she wasn't afraid to ask the questions that he was too weird about to do himself. She actually administered my tshots for me for a while. Fast forward to last year and suddenly family I hadn't seen for 9 years wanted to get back in contact with me and mom. I was expecting my grandparents and uncle to be really weird about it but they've always been chill. They used to call me a dyke and tell mom she was a failure bc I wore boy clothes when I was a kid so obviously I was worried. 5) Are you active in the trans community or LGBT community? Not nearly as much as I'd like to be. My local active trans community is 80% 40-60 year old trans ladies. Like I love them to bits and I appreciate them sharing their experiences as older queer people but I feel very out of place there. I've been invited to a gay dude cafe meet a few times but am too nervous to go. That being said, my entire friend circle is trans sans a few sprinkled cis people. So I guess we're all just an informal support group lmao 6) Who was the first person you told about being trans? My first partner. She was super queer (was identifying as a bi male at the time we dated) and very understanding and supported me through a lot of the mental gymnastics of realizing I was a dude. 7) Who do you look up to? My friends, honestly. Like I don't know what else to say here lmao 8) How do you deal with being misgendered in the beginning of transitioning by people? Told them politely to only use he/him with me. If they were malicious about it I would try to explain how ignorant that was and if they still didn't get the hint I'd ignore them. 9) What is something positive about being trans? I don't have to hide awkward boners. 10) What are some of your fears in regards to being trans? I'm super afraid of top surgery ending in a result im unhappy with. Like I don't care about the pectoral scarring at all, but I'm worried about proportional problems or dog earring. Basically anything that would require a revision. I'm also super insecure about not having a bio dick. It limits me a lot sexually even with strap ons. No harnesses stay where they need to on me to get anything good happening and my dick always slowly drifts downward. Its frustrating. 11) How do you manage dysphoria? Hahahaahhaa ice cream And usually taking nudes. 12) What are you doing to stay healthy for transitioning mentally and physically? I'm working out every day now. Nothing too intense, but it feels nice. I want to drop about 30-40 pounds before top surgery so am slowly amping up the workouts. Mentally I'm a disaster and am frantically looking for a psychiatrist but can't find any open that have experience with a trans patient. 13) Bathrooms I haven't used a women's bathroom since before I was in testosterone. I'm not anxious about them at all unless there's a lot of drunk dudes or the locks on the stalls don't work. 14) What are some of your passing tips or things you do to pass? Confidence. Fake it till you make it. Being a walking masc alt stereotype got me through high school. 15) How have you embraced your trans identity? Tbh coming out and living life as trans is one of the few times I've been able to do one very important thing consistently: do something for myself no matter what people think. Its something that I've been trying to spread into other aspects of my life. If anything, my trans identity embraced me. 16) What's your rock anthem and why? I think this is the only answer that hasn't changed since last time I did this. I Am, I'm Me from Twisted Sister. 17) What's your binding choice and why? I use a GC2B binder. They're comfy, last long, don't roll, don't have prominent seams, and don't smell funky like my old underworks ones. If I swim publicly or want to slim out my hips for special occasions I wear a full length underworks swim binder. Fun fact: I didn't bind for a year and half bc I gained a fuckwad of weight and my tits passed as moobs. 18) How do you feel about the trans laws where you live? They're getting better. I live in Ontario, Canada so am pretty protected all around. I wish the technical side of transition (name, gender marker) was more streamlined. 19) If you're religious how do your views effect being trans? if you're not religious what about your family religions? I'm in no way religious. My mom had to jump through a bunch of hoops in her head to legitimize my transition through her religion/spirituality. Its a little disturbing to me for details I will not share publicly. 20) Do you want to be a parent? why or why not? I hate children. Keep them away from me. 21) Your views on the cis-gendered community? ??¿¿ they exist. I believe education about trans people and other queer identities should be taught in schools to help cis society not be as blissfully ignorant. I don't believe all cis people hate trans people, but they do have a lot of misconceptions about the community. 22) Do you feel being trans holds you back from your career choice? Fuck no. Honestly I haven't felt nervous about transition affecting my work since my first job. I was just coming out when I worked the museum and was scared they might kick me from the position. Nowadays, I do not disclose my trans status to potential employers until they're hiring me. I thankfully live in a place and time where I'm protected as a trans person in the workplace by the law so haven't felt held back at all. 23) What stereotypes are put on trans people? Undercuts Tbh The stereotypes that stick out to me are the fucking weight ones. Where the fuck are my chunky trans men and ladies at? As a trans guy I am pressured a lot by the representation in the community to aspire to be a buff/cut beefcake or stick thin. Hell, a few of my already very small trans girl friends think they're not as valid bc their bust/waist/hip ratio doesn't make them look like a model. There's literally nothing wrong with being any weight but I find the pressure to be small is even higher within the trans and queer community to fit the stereotype/preconception that we have to be conventionally beautiful to be valid in our identity. 24) Who is your favorite LGBT actor/musician/director/artist etc and why? Uhhhhhhh Tbh I don't even know 25) Doctor visits? I hate them. They make everything about my trans status even if I'm there for something completely unrelated. There is FREE training on trans care for doctors in our part of the province but none seem to opt for it and instead decide its appropriate to ask me transition questions when I'm there for something as unrelated as an impacted nail. 26) Do you feel comfortable answering questions about being trans if say your teacher/friend/stranger asked you? If I'm not paying for their time, if I'm not busy doing something else, and if they are polite, yes. I don't mind answering questions at all! But there's a time and a place and some people just don't understand that. 27) What goals do you have? Lose weight and tone up a bit in time for top surgery. Be aggressively body positive. Continually try to normalize trans bodies. Find a local community to be a part of. 28) What is something you have to do everyday or else you feel like your whole day is off if you don't do it? Shower. If I go out or if people outside of friend circle are near me I have to have my packer and binder. If I'm alone I need music or something on at all times. 29) Write out something positive about yourself using the letters of your name. Ex. Your name is Bob so B-Beautiful O-Outstanding B-Boy Um. I don't have a good name for this uhhh C-Creative O-Open hearted O-Okay P-Phenomenon E-Eager R-Rad I had to Google positive words to do that lmao 30) Write a haiku about being trans I hate writing these Please just cut off my titties Throw them in the fire

[catboyrightsdefender]

hey I'm just wondering what you mean by saying there is a lot of homo and lesbophobia in queer spaces? :0 This might just be my experience but I personally have seen a lot of bi- and transphobia but never homo/lesbophobia? /gen

disclaimer im sorry if my words are clumsy or if im accidentaly offensive. i dont like talking about such serious subjects in english cause i Know what i say risks getting misinterpreted more as i dont master english as much as my native language.

i personally havent seen much biphobia, and most transphobia ive seen coming from queer spaces was a specific brand of transphobia that is subject to debate (like. seeing trans men as different than cis men, this is poorly worded but im not gonna develop this issue here cause this isnt what you asked sjjs) (i say subject to debate cause to some, like me, its transphobic, while to others who have different opinions it isnt. same happens for biphobia i guess), but obviously it depends a lot of which 'circles' you evolve in/which people you follow.

obviously im not the best suited to talk about lesbophobia, but from what ive seen lesbians often get attacked far more often than other groups. especially radical and political lesbians, who get both the ''mainstream'' lesbophobia and very aggressive responses from others from the queer community, because they often adopt a materialist or marxist point of view which clashes with the heavily individualistic queer point of view. its also all of the erasure, i remember at some point pride posts often didnt feature a lesbian flag (i havent seen that as much nowadays but also i follow different ppl and more lesbians now so again what you see highly depends on who you follow). its also stupid shit like people trying to strip the lesbian identity from its meaning by saying bi girls can call themselves lesbians (same happens with queer ppl calling themselves gay and then getting mad when gay/homosexual criticize it. im not gonna enter this debate cause i did call myself gay while i was still bi so erhmm im not the best suited to criticize it, even tho i regret doing it now). its all the 'jokes' non gay people make about gay people's lives and sexuality, like for example the jokes about 'white gays' (when they are coming from white queers. im obviously not saying that the racism in the gay community shouldnt be adressed, but look at most of the white gay jokes, this term is often used with no actual relevance) or 'cis gays' (when said jokes could totally target trans gay men too). its thinking that cis gays and lesbians are the opressor and are privileged as if they dont face homophobia or worse in some countries. like obviously there are power dynamics in the community, cis ppl have the cis privilege, but it just sounds so hypocritical to pretend that cis gays are the ennemy cause they have more privileges and at the same time refuse to aknowledge that trans hets have privileges by being het (yes this is discourse i have seen yes it did make me want to die).

i could go on, but yeah, its ''little'' things that seem ''harmless'' but in the end they add up. and again, it highly depends on who you follow. rn on twitter i mostly follow gays and lesbians who have similar political views as me, so i either see very good stuff or bad stuff when it gets debated. i also think its important to think critically. everyone who participates in discourse says things as if they are the One Truth, but there are in fact many different point of views! just because someone doesnt use the same vocabulary, or doesnt have the same world view as you doesnt mean what they say is wrong or queerphobic. you dont have to 'choose one side'! just because im interested in materialism more than queer thinking doesnt mean i reject the queer movement, i still think there are interesting things in it, and that there are certain things in materialism that arent perfect. in the end you just gotta do you and build your own opinion.

hope this answers your question lol im certain that there are people who'd be more qualified to answer than me with my not-perfect-english. have a nice day <3

[young-potato-salad]

Clarification/ Discussion #9001

I kinda-recently made a post regarding my thoughts and opinions on:

Transtrenders

The fact that there are so many names for the same thing in the Trans Community

Whether or not someone needs any type of dysphoria to classify under “trans”

other shit that i don’t remember but might ramble about in this post

However, what I was trying to say did not come across as intended ofc because im a fucking idiot lol so I have decided to try to rewrite what I was trying to say. Imma just go in order of what I have listed, and if you wanna discuss in reblogs or PM’s or whatever, I’d appreciate if you’d follow the list order, too. So the first thing: Transtrenders. People who use the label “transgender” as what most people see, a fashion statement. NGL, I don’t remember a lot of what I said in my previous post -will post a link to it at the end, btw- but the post was mainly directed at Transtrenders. I’m just gonna say what I think, regardless of if I at all mentioned it before hand. Being gender-nonconforming =/= transgender. Expression =/= gender. I honestly couldn’t care less if someone wanted to use transgender, their life man, but the problem I do have is when they typically associate being GNC and Trans together, which you can be both, but those are two different things. The problem I have is when people don’t take me seriously when I tell them I have gender dysphoria because some people now think that being GNC and Trans are the same thing. I came out to someone and they told me I was just a “cross-dresser trying to be special”. Now, I am not saying everyone is like this, so don’t even jump on the “don’t blame _____ for making _____ look bad!!!” train, but it feels as if I can’t be myself because others see it as a fashion trend or something. Like I said, I’m not stopping anyone from using the trans-label, nor am I forcing them, but transtrenders can hurt the trans community.  This is a good transition to the next topic oh man, I’ll now go into depth on what I meant when I talked about how there are countless different labels for the same gender/GI, or when people start mixing expression and personality into gender/GI. The example I used is Femmefluid, I believe, which is being fluid between genders, excluding male/masculine ones. Specification is totally fine, do what you want, but the fact that I don’t get is why someone can’t use a label that already exists, such as for this example- genderfluid ( which does not necessarily mean you have to be fluid between all genders and such, but just fluid in general ). You do you, not gonna stop you, but this is my opinion, and I don’t quite understand the need to have multiple labels. Labels are there to say easily who you are, but when you mix 7 different labels that overlap, it can get pretty confusing at some point. At what point do we stop defining things as a gender/GI? You gotta use real facts, psychology and shit. Biological sex anomalies are 100% possible, so researchers are looking into whether or not gender anomalies are possible, too, so NB genders are still up for debate and I do identify with an NB/Agender label at the time of saying this , but until proven otherwise, there is no scientific proof at the moment of being whatever you identify as that’s outside the binary, including what I choose to identify as. Now keep in mind that I did say scientific, as many cultures so have other genders besides male and female, but that’s not the point. Also, your gender is not your personality or expression. A girl can identify as a girl and be boyish and dress like a dude, and depending on how this made up girl wanted to use their expression, they could either be a cross-dresser or just a tomboy, nothing to do with gender. I’m starting to get off track here, but you can have any personality and expression, and that doesn’t have to necessarily be your gender. You can label yourself as much as you want, but keep in mind not everyone will know what all of your labels mean. Oh boy, here is the big one that tumblr hates: Do you actually need dysphoria to be trans? When people say yes to this question, tumblr automatically assumes that you’re saying “TO BE TRANS YOU MUST ALWAYS BE IN A CONSTANT STATE OF HATING YOURSELF AND WANT TO MEDICALLY TRANSITION” but that’s not the case, or at least with what I was trying to say. When I say yes to that question, I’m talking about experiencing social, mental, or physical dysphoria, and ohmyfuckinggod why would I want someone to be in constant distress? You don’t have to have dysphoria every second of your life; I’m talking about in general, if you’ve ever experienced dysphoria towards living as your birth sex/gender, then I personally believe you can use the label of transgender. Not everyone transition, and that is fine, and not everyone can express their feelings to know that they are experiencing dysphoria, and that is fine as well, but you can’t deny that GID is a real thing, which is what most diagnosed transgender people have -transgenderism itself isn’t a mental illness though, its just kinda the result of one-. You can be trans and experience dysphoria daily, or you can be trans and rarely feel it at all, but what I’m saying is that most people who ID with trans do/have experience(d) dysphoria at some point, with any severity. *Note- ID’ing as another gender, along side with your birth gender, is not excluded in this so don’t get mad at me for one lil thing in this huge fucking post. HOWEVER, I am not going to stop you from using the term trans. I am not going to dictate whether or not you can transition. I am not going to tell you to identify with 1 label, or how to dress, or whateverthefuck. Why? Because it’s your life, not mine. These are just my personal thoughts that I wanted to clarify. I won’t hate you if you happen to fall under anything I brought up. Do whatever the fuck you want, just be a decent human being and you have my respect, okay man? In the other post, I talked about trying to normalize the word queer a lil bit, too, but not gonna bring it up here bc boy oh boy is this lengthy. Here is the original post http://young-potato-salad.tumblr.com/post/156812358947/seriously-though and hopefully you can see the reblogs/replies as well. If you would like to discuss this further, all I ask is that you have a mature conversation. If you wanna PM, go ahead m8.