#also why are wilbur and techno doing the same hand thing

[softbeanofexistentialcrisis]

4/4 IN SUITS WHO CHEERED

[psiithirisma]

AU where Phil is a single father of 3 and also owns a restaurant. Meets Kristin and falls in love but doesn't know how to "charm her" and neapolitrio (his kids) tries to help but they're little kids so it's all silly and cute.

Phil invites Kristin to a date in his restaurant after closing hours, she accepts. Then it's all just a nervous Phil + neapolitrio trying to create a romantic atmosphere and also one of them being the chef, one helping, and one the waiter.

He questions many /many/ times why he accepted to go with his boys' idea

Also, the 3 of them get Phil's instinctive dad side to show through the whole night by accident

little Tommy is the waiter and when he goes to ask them for their orders and is about to write them down he realizes he doesn't know how, so he asks Phil, who only sighs fondly and takes Tommy's notepad and pen and writes it for him. Kristin finds it adorable.

Tho the illusion is soon broken after Tommy thanks his dad and checks the notepad, frowns, and says out loud "dad I can't read this, your handwriting is shit!"

Phil, immediately: Tommy! Don't say that!

Tommy: what? Is true! You told us not to lie

Phil: no-

Tommy: am I not allowed to say bad things abt you in front of your girlfriend?

Phil: I meant don't curse.

Tommy: aw, that's not fair! you get to do it all the time.

Tommy: and Techno and Wilbur do it all the time when you aren't near!

Wilbur, from the kitchen: DON'T SNITCH YOU RAT!

Phil, whispering while he covers his red face: for fucks sake...

Tommy: see!!!

Tommy goes back to the kitchen shouting "Wiill, what does it says here? dad's handwriting is  dog poop!" which only gets more giggles from Kristin and for Phil to press his hands harder against his face.

That embarrassing bit over, Kristin and Phil move on and keep talking. But then you can hear from the speakers a young voice (Wilbur) whispering "it's this on? [Louder] Hello, dadza and Kristin! we made our own cool song for you lovebirds, wink".

It's followed by a song with really bad quality audio, bc none of them could figure out how to put a song properly so they just kept the speaker open meanwhile Wilbur leave the song playing through his cellphone.

This song is just some cover from an already existent one except for some parts being changed to Phil's and Kristin's name to, y'know, make it more romantic.

Phil considers death would be a kind fate at this point for him.

When the song ends, quick steps can be heard and the next second Wilbur is at their table, smiling wildly and asking Phil if he liked the song

Dad mode kicks in and all previous embarrassment almost seems like it never existed from the start

Phil: you have been improving a lot, well done, I loved it

Wilbur, beaming with joy: I learned it all by myself too!

Phil: wait all by yourself?

Wilbur: (intense nodding)

Phil: aw, mate! I'm so proud of you

Wilbur goes to the kitchen, celebrating after Phil's compliments.

Phil and Kristin go back to chatting, this time a little more at ease and without many interruptions, soft sounds emanating from the kitchen.

That's it until Techno shouts Phil's name and Wilbur is at the kitchen's entrance calling for Phil at the same time with a panicking expression.

Phil excuses himself and gets up from his seat at the speed of light to the kitchen. His ears are met by the sound of sniffles.

There, in the kitchen, he can see Techno kneeling in front of Tommy trying to calm him down while he holds Tommy's little hands gently.

Wilbur explains that Tommy was helping them cook by peeling potatoes but cut himself accidentally and now he's bleeding and they didn't know what to do nor where are the band-aids

Phil, being the only man ever, sorts the situation easily. Telling the twins where the medical kit is while he takes Tommy in his arms and washes the blood away with cold sink water, cradling him to console his youngest's sobs.

Soon enough Tommy it's all patched up (they only cleaned the cut and put a band-aid on it) but doesn't let go of his dad so Phil just kinda accepts this is his new lifestyle.

He's about to come back with the little blonde to his and Kristin's table but then realizes the woman admiring the scene from behind the counter. Phil is halfway mouthing an apology until Kristin seems to land on something and alerts them about the smoke coming from the stove.

They turn to look at it and oh yeah there's smoke coming from the stove oven...

When they open it, the family are met with more smoke that only gets Techno coughing and his face tainted with gray and the entire kitchen clouded. Oh there's also fire.

Kristin is this time who handles the situation, taking the emergency fire extinguisher from a wall near and putting out the fire, telling the twins to open the windows to clear the place of smoke.

After that Techno is already apologizing, embarrassed that he forgot about the chicken in the oven and also miscalculated the temperature.

But Phil just hugs him (the best he can without squeezing Tommy between them) and reassures him it's okay, that he appreciates that Techno tried and the only thing he cares about is that all 3 of them are okay.

Techno seems still unsure but any uncertainty he had is washed off when he feels Tommy's little hand giving him some comforting pats on the top of his head.

Wilbur breaks the tender moment by saying "unlike you pair of losers I did everything right so I think I just deserve a hug for awesomeness” which makes Phil laugh and both, Techno and Tommy, flip him off.

Tommy also shows him his tongue, y'know, for a double offense.

They get scolded (“kids, don't flip your brother off”) and Wilbur joins the hug, against Tommy and Techno's wishes.

Phil (with Tommy still in his arms) and Kristin return to their table, followed by two tired twins who just pull some chairs near them, sitting next to Phil, each on each side.

Kristin and Phil look at each other in silence, both tired but smiling.

“Pizza?”.

“Pizza”.

[anonymous-dentist]

Hi anon, sorry to bring the sbi family fanfic discussion again and for the long post , (your posts ware what made realize why i hated this thing so much)

I don’t know if is the same type of fans but i noticed that some ficwritters that are really foucused on philza and wilbur (and sbi family i think?) Are kinda trying to add cellbit to this situation? Like i read some philza focused fanfic where he interacts with cellbit and the ficwritters act like cellbit is his kid? Its weird idk how to explain very well (this is also the same people that kinda write cellbit as a native english speaker (american and european) and not a brazilian (its something that is too hard to explain right now)

And its kinda stressing me out because cellbit is written in such a weid way and its infesting the spiderbit tag lol and i dont understand what is going on half of the time since idk what the hell sbi even is (brazilian with 0 understanding about english speaking mcty)

Sorry for the long post

Oh yeah no I don’t really get it but like. I also do! Because q!Phil has become one of only a literal handful of people on the island to actually properly trust q!Cellbit and so they’re like. Friends. But obviously you can never just be friends with someone not your age and so. Fandom assigned family dynamic. It’s super weird and lowkey like. Idk it’s just weird lol.

A discussion surely must follow!

First, a brief rundown of SBI:

SBI is Sleepy Boys Inc., a group made of up streamers Philza, Wilbur Soot, Tommyinnit, and Technoblade. (Originally it was just Phil, Wilbur, and Techno, but Tommy wiggled his way in somehow.) They’re Best Friends, but somewhere along the way their fandoms said. Fuck it. Family dynamic… mostly because the ccs lowkey thought it was funny and ran with it. Wilbur alone would rather die than not have Philza Minecraft be his father

This dynamic spread to their characters on the dsmp despite them literally not once ever referring to each other all as family; iirc Techno himself said he at least wasn’t part of the family because that dynamic would be fucked up after all the shit his character did to both c!Wilbur and c!Tommy. But c!Phil was c!Wilbur’s father even though he did fully murder his ass, and Wilbur and Tommy were brothers because they’re Wilbur and Tommy and you’d have to kill them to stop them from being brothers. Tommy was never established to be c!Phil’s son, and Phil never seemed to consider him one

But then the dsmp started dying around summer 2021 and everyone was kinda just left with fanon, and SBI fanon can get weird. I’m talking borderline fetishistic nuclear family stuff, especially when you get into ‘Dark SBI’ content with Phil kidnapping Tommy or whatever and forcibly making them family? It gets weird, take a look through the tag sometime

The thing with a lot of these fics is that like. It’s gotten to a point where it’s a fandomized version of both cc! and c!SBI with some really freaky characterizations and some really diehard fans. I’ve talked about that before, so I won’t do it again.

The weirdest thing I’ve noticed about these fics, though- and this goes back to what we were talking about with Cellbit inexplicably being added to the mix all of a sudden- is that everybody has to be a family.

You’ll be hard pressed to find a SBI fic where the characters have friends. Even Tubbo and Ranboo, usually delegated to a ‘Tommy’s friend!’ role despite them not interacting much like as a group ever are treated either as extensions of Tommy himself or as his found family ‘brothers’ who Phil also inevitably helps take care of rather than as friends, and they act that way. Niki isn’t usually ever written in as Wilbur’s friend, she’s Benchtrio’s sister/mother-figure, or she’s described as Wilbur’s found family sister. Jack Manifold? Lumped in with Niki with Benchtrio as their older brother/father-figure. Quackity? Either Wilbur’s boyfriend, thus a member of the family, or Tommy’s older brother/father-figure.

Even characters who never really interacted with SBI as a “family” on the dsmp get this treatment: you’ll read an SBI fic with c!Purpled in it and he’ll be Tommy’s brother figure. c!Sam is Tommy’s father figure. Schlatt is Tommy’s uncle or Wilbur’s brother. Puffy is an aunt. Sapnap and Dream? Tommy’s brother or father figures. Even Hannah is being written as Tommy’s cool older sister figure these days despite only really interacting with him once on the smp

And you can see this kind of behavior continuing now in the qsmp fandom… if the new ccs/characters in question aren’t “problematic”. Chayanne can’t see Techno as a personal hero, he has to see him as an older brother or an uncle. Tubbo is Phil and Fit’s son and Tommy’s brother. Niki is Tallulah’s mom. Quackity is Wilbur’s boyfriend.

What you’ll actually be hard pressed to see is this kind of dynamic with Phil and other, “problematic” ccs, aka ccs who aren’t like. English ccs.

Because you won’t find q!Forever included in the family dynamics despite him basically being q!Phil’s best friend and closest confidant. It took longer for q!Missa to be added to Phil’s wiki page than it did for Techno to despite them literally being explicit canon husbands, and you’ll be lucky if Missa is even mentioned in a “qsmp” SBI fic. Etoiles? Not even mentioned despite him and Phil more or less actually leaning into the family dynamic with the “brothers” thing. Even Tallulah and Chayanne are left out or mischaracterized in “qsmp” SBI fics, giving Tommy the spotlight.

You won’t find nearly anybody who isn’t an English cc in these fics, and this is NOT accusing anyone of xenophobia. It’s most likely just because the SBI people are used to watching only Phil or only Wilbur and they don’t speak enough of the other languages to really care about the non-English ccs and thus disregard their characters and lore. It’s not just SBI people who do this, it’s plenty of people speaking every language on the server not watching anyone whose languages they don’t speak. Yk?

But that brings us to q!Cellbit, and I’m surprised the SBI guys have latched onto him the way they did considering he’s everything they seem to dislike: his first language isn’t English, he doesn’t talk with Phil a lot, he and Tallulah get along really well, he makes fun of Wilbur being gone. And, honestly? The SBI guys did hate him for a long time because of those things, they constantly undermined his efforts and said Phil would be a better Order leader and said that he should never speak to Tallulah again because he was making her sad and he’s friends with their least favorite person ever, Forever.

But then q!Phil said he trusted Cellbit, and it’s like a switch was flipped. Starting around the Pills Arc when they first teamed up, SBI people were suddenly on board with Cellbit despite being part of the haters literally days before. Why? Well. Phil and Cellbit are friends now, and so now he gets the privilege of being in the fics.

The problem with this is that these people have never watched Cellbit. They’ve seen ten minutes of him total from Phil’s pov, and that’s all they’re going to use to write his character. So of course there will be mischaracterization.

And, of course, they’ll be family. Because, as I said, there’s this weird allergy to the concept of friendship in SBI fics. You’re family or you’re an enemy.

Constant fanon mischaracterization of Phil has basically turned him into a universal father figure even if he doesn’t have that dynamic with the characters he’s like the “father” of. q!Cellbit’s only familial figure outside of his actual canon family is generally seen as q!Bad, who even referred to him as family last night on stream. But, because Phil and Cellbit are friends now and Cellbit is younger than Phil is, they have to have a father-son dynamic, because that’s what Phil’s only character trait is in the SBI fics he’s in. He’s the dad whether it makes sense or not.

If that makes sense.

[cringe-y-gumi]

I love the lovey-dovey, forest green flag stories for Dreamnoblade, but I also enjoy some of the hurt side of the comfort (or maybe just straight up angst)

So here I am, thinking of a story where Techno is on his usual routine in his retirement. He had done some morning chores already and on his way to feed Carl. He's not even two-steps away from his porch when he got flash banged by a bright neon green hoodie combined with snow. Dream screamed his name before he could even get close.

Nothing much really happens in Techno's retirement— THIS WAS BEFORE, because now DREAM is added in his retirement routine.

"Let's go to the Nether!"

There you go. This guy really thinks he could just drag Techno anywhere if he wants too. So... Full of himself. So... annoying

"... Alright just wait for me."

Techno always aggrees.

Why not, right? He really just has nothing else to do. Plus! This is how they always been! That's right... Nothing changed between him and Dream. They sparred; They talked— do some mundane tasks together even; Annoy each other... especially that part.

Techno enjoys seeing the other flush—stumbling on his words thinking of quips; stomping his foot in frustration; and above all Dream's own comebacks/taunts against Techno.

Techno always ends up having a laugh. And it's also like a bragging points because he's pretty sure not everyone can be like this with Dream. To see... THIS! This side of him.

Good for clout... He thinks.

Techno would be going back in his house after being with Dream and he find himself smiling, thinking of what happened in their errand. It also felt heavy in his chest but it's not painful.

Going back to present, they're on their way to the Nether portal when Dream said,

"I need this ring to be perfect!"

Oh right... Dream's engaged.

To whom you may ask? To Wilbur (or Punz idk ⊙﹏⊙)

Who would've thought this guy would be engaged. But then again, Wilbur proposed so whatever. What's with engagement anyway? Is this one of Phil's trend?

Anyway, Techno doesn't care.

Because nothing would change between him and Dream anyway.

Fast forward to their nether errand, Techno swears he would not get used to how reckless Dream with his movements— in fact as time goes by he seems to become more... restless with it because now look! Dream is fucking hissing with all the burns he got from being a show-off.

Techno can't believe his wasting his resources with this fool (this is exactly why Techno packs extra everytime he has an errand with Dream.) He probably shouldn't have because this fool is grinning at him anyways. (But Techno thought Dream grinning combined with wincing and hissing is so ugly to look at so might as well patch the other whatever.)

They got what they need and they come back in Techno's house with Phil... and Wilbur. He watched Dream hugged Wil; He watched how the other softly asked about Dream's wounds; He watched as Dream answered him with the same grin Techno was just having for himself a while ago; He watched as Wil softly put his hand on Dream's face, wiping stain before placing a peck on Dream's forehead; all before Dream went to the shower to change (he has spare clothes in Techno's house).

At some point... He approached Wilbur (or maybe it's the other way around) and while Dream was preoccupied with Phil, he asked "How did you decide you want to marry him?"

Maybe it's with the way Techno said it but Wilbur didn't even tease him. He responded,

"I couldn't tell you exactly, but maybe it's the subtle things..."

"When I was focused thinking I hate his guts I didn't even notice I don't really mind..."

"When I hang out with him out of impulse and slowly realized, I enjoyed his company..."

"When it occurred to me I did— and will still do, everything he asked..."

"When everything I felt with him became so heavy in my chest... I said, I want him always with me... for as long as death allows it."

Now, at any point of the day, this would've been the part where Techno says 'cringe' and bully Wilbur for that sap. But Techno's mind is so full of all the things happened with Dream today... No, since the day he met him, that the only thing Techno could mutter is...

Ah..

"...So that's why."

From that point on he told himself how it's alright since nothing changed between them. But it wasn't long before he stopped because it's the same thought that weighs heavy in his chest and right now... it hurts.

______

This just became a oneshot, didn't it?

[found-wings]

wait but actually speaking of spars . . . if their strength aligns with canon- it'd legit be very worrying for wilbur n techno to see phil engage in multiple friendly spars with etoiles and be regarded as one of their strongest people they know yet over and over and over again he loses and loses and the two are constantly excited durring them ('that was a good one !! almost got me down' 'aw really?? yknow what, gap up- we're doing another round)

like if I was watching my friends new sus friend like a hawk and the sus friend consistently had the upper hand during test combat in fully safe places, I'd be terrified for what would happen to my friend if they ever genuinely fought in real battles aaaaaaa angst potential especially for the idea of techno 'suddenly' spending much more time doing 1 on 1 training with phil after seeing these fights ;-; - 💿

This is a very important point, because their strength is somewhat aligned with what we see and know in canon, but in different ways.

Phil is the messenger of Death for a reason, however the tournament he’s holding is specifically looking for that. The winner at the end would have to beat Phil in an actual fight to receive the chance of being chosen. Phil knows his way around combat in a way that he doesn’t show it in spars for a reason.

The only times Phil goes all in has been in 'sparring sessions' with Techno.

Techno knows that - he‘s had personal experience of it. Wilbur isn‘t as aware of it but he definitely trusts Techno in judging it and reacts based on that.

Is it still worrying? Oh definitely, because it still gives the possibility of if Etoiles turns on them, that Phil could be taken out.

One of the bigger reasons on why Etoiles, unrelated to canon based strength, is actually well able to beat Phil from what we can see - based on sparring sessions - is the fact that he knows a lot of things.

Phil is not specifically an avian, but he does mainly present as one because it‘s the closest to what his actual species is in a simplified manner. He has the same structure and similar instincts as one, which also goes into his combat. Etoiles has spend almost his entire life hunting these, so in the sparring sessions he becomes very quickly used to how Phil seems to fight.

So.. would Etoiles be able to win against Phil in an genuine fight? Definitely, there is a chance. They are more evened out in an actual battle and it could end up either way most likely.

Would Etoiles be able to win against Techno in an genuine fight? For a simple answer, probably no. Etoiles isn‘t well versed in nether hybrids, nor specifically how Techno fights.

Techno is a force for a reason, especially once even the smallest drop of blood comes out.

Techno would definitely spend time pushing Phil again in their own sparrings, especially against the way he observed that Etoiles fights.

Meanwhile on the other hand, Phil is beaming and so excited in his spars with Etoiles. Like, Etoiles is an actual challenge even in their silly spars and Phil is having the time of his life getting to mess around with him.

Like c‘mon, he‘s waited hundred, maybe thousands of years for someone like this who can actually potentially beat him like this! Someone who‘s well versed in and skilled in combat, and honestly he‘s living off of Etoiles‘ humor just as much.

Phil is a liiiittle bit upset that he didn‘t get to fight Etoiles in the actual tournament because of a silly little kidnapping attempt that shut it down :D

[bonesandthebees]

Yo,

So I was feeling bored and sentimental, so I went back and read through literally all of Clinic yesterday, and I think I noticed a teensy mistake.

In the main fic, when Tommy's under the dream interrogation thingie from 404, in the third dream (I think), Techno burns his hand. Tommy heals it, Techno starts pointing out his worst fears, etc. Anyways, we move on.

But in the Waking Nightmares side fic, when Tommy is explaining his dreams to Wilbur, he says that Techno cut his hand. And he also mentions that the dreams are ingrained in his mind almost flawlessly, so I doubt that's just good ol' Tommy missing a detail.

Idk it's just a silly little thing I noticed because that's the way I am, and just felt like pointing it out.

But seriously, tho, every time I go back and re-read Clinic, I still feel the suspense, even tho I know what's going to happen. Idk what else to call that, other than damn good writing. (Big ol' cheesy thumbs up to you :)



okay first off thank you for the kind words about my writing, I'm glad you enjoyed clinic so much :)

but I'm gonna go on a tangent for a second about my thoughts on you pointing this out to me. this is /nm, I know you didn't mean any harm, but I genuinely do not understand why people feel a need to point out tiny errors in fanfics like this. now in a situation where the mistake—whether it be an inconsistency or a typo or something like that—is bad enough to make the reader confused or possibly misinterpret the scene, then yeah, pointing it out to the author makes sense.

but you said it outright in your ask: you could tell that was just a mistake on my end. me accidentally referring to techno's injury as a cut as opposed to a burn was very clearly just a slight continuity error on my end. you knew what I meant. it didn't damage your ability to enjoy or understand either of the fics. and yet you took the time to write this whole message out to tell me about it. and I just don't understand the point. maybe you thought I'd want to know, but also I have friends who I can ask to read my works for me for errors like this. again, in a situation where the error is enough to mess up a readers understanding of what's going on, yeah, of course let me know. but in a situation where it's easy to understand that it's just a mistake, I really don't get why people feel the need to point it out to me?

this isn't specifically about you. I still get comments on one specific chapter of clinic pointing out a minor typo in the chapter. I finished that fic a year and a half ago. and people still. point. it. out. at this point I refuse to fix it out of spite. so that's also where a lot of this rambling is coming from.

I wanna emphasize, I'm not mad. I know you didn't mean any harm. but frankly, I write fanfic for my own enjoyment. I don't get paid for this. I don't have a professional editor or paid proofreader to go through everything I write to make sure it's publishing standard. it's just me, and sometimes my friends who are kind enough to read over my stuff for me before I post it. I don't care if I make a tiny error here and there, as long as the original intent is clear.

I'm sure a lot of other fic authors feel the same way I do about this. it's not something I'm fuming mad about or anything. it just bugs me because I don't understand the point. when I see an error like that in a fic, I just move on and keep reading.

anyway, didn't mean for this to get so long. you get my point. I'm not fixing that. you all know what I meant.

[dsmpstimboards]

requests are: open!

i have: 4 request(s) at the moment!

ran by @constellationofaries; i'm aries, i'm an adult, i use it/they and i'm very tired, all of the time. this blog is sfw. no DNI.

i take requests for any dsmp character/duo, just make sure your request includes what type of stims you want. i will not do CC requests. i also take requests for just moodboards (still pictures). same rule applies, please include what types of images you'd like.

i also tag the gif sources if i can find them.

if i am uncomfortable with a request i will answer it either way explaining why i won't be doing it. it won't just rot in my inbox, but i reserve the right to deny a request.

tagging system below the cut.

not a board - anything non-stim or non-mood.

not requested - a stim/moodboard that i made, without it having been requested

(x) stim - how i tag specific stims. ie. sand stim, water stim, slime stim, chain stims, etc. will listed below in the masterlist for convenience.

c!character - how i tag characters involved, or duos if i know the name thereof/if it was provided. will listed below in the masterlist also for convenience.

if it's very requested of me to do so i will also start tagging other things such as colors! please be mindful as it may take a bit for me to tag all my posts properly though.

masterlist:

stimboards by character

c!schlatt stimboards

c!dream stimboards

c!dreamxd stimboards

c!phil stimboards

c!punz stimboards

c!quackity stimboards

c!sam stimboards

c!techno stimboards

c!tommy stimboards

c!wilbur stimboards

m!pandora stimboards

stimboards by duos/trios/quartets and/or known ship names

c!emeraldduo / c!techza stimboards

c!prisontrio / c!awesamdreamity stimboards

c!sbi stimboards

c!stagedduo / c!drunz stimboards

stimboards by stims

ad stimboards

amethyst stimboards

armor stimboards

book stimboards

candle stimboards

card stimboards

casino stimboards

casino slots stimboards

chain stimboards

choker stimboards

claw stimboards

clock stimboards

cloud stimboards

coin stimboards

crown stimboards

disc stimboards

drink stimboards

dripping stimboards

emerald stimboards

feather stimboards

gear stimboards

gem stimboards (refined)

gemstone stimboards (rough)

handcuff stimboards

hand holding stimboards

hot cocoa / hot chocolate stimboards

honey stimboards

lava stimboards

necklace stimboards

necktie stimboards

orca stimboards

roulette wheel stimboards

ruby stimboards

shoe stimboards

suit stimboards

whale stimboards

whiskey stimboards

wing stimboards

winter stimboards

[wonda-cat]

What do you think about the difference in support for Dream and Quackity? There's the whole thing about Dream not being The Villain (which- valid until he decided to gaslight gatekeep girlboss a literal child), but despite that opinions on him seem to swing wildly between "NO HES TOTALLY NOT WRONG" and "HES LITERALLY ONLY WRONG", no in between. On the other hand Quackity had a poor tragic backstory and then went on to torture Dream but has way more sympathizers despite this which seems strange.

I don't see the difference as anything all that strange once you break down the fundamental divergencies of their characters and compare them—especially from a narrative perspective. The reason c!Dream is seen from a wholly negative perspective by most people (although he's well-loved as a character) is because he passed the Moral Event Horizon; c!Quackity has not.

The Moral Event Horizon is essentially the final action that renders a character 'morally irredeemable.' Dream flew past this line, and gleefully so, when he decided to orchestrate a legal kidnapping through political blackmail, all to isolate and abuse a child to the point they attempted suicide to escape it. No other character has ever, or will ever, hit that level of abhorrent again.

Despite this, c!Dream has also managed to dig himself even deeper by killing and torturing two innocent people, trying to murder many more, and continuing to stalk and torment his abuse victim. In contrast to this, we have c!Quackity, whose most despicable action to date is the torture of another person for an egregious amount of time. But wouldn't this also cross the Moral Event Horizon?

It doesn't—here's why:

Quackity shows both empathy and remorse, c!Dream does not.

In the aftermath of every mistake and hurtful thing c!Quackity has done, he's shown immense guilt, apologized, and tried to make up for what he's done. He's done this with Tommy, Tubbo, Purpled, Fundy, Wilbur, Foolish, Niki, and many others—even when something wasn't necessarily his fault.

Sometimes what he offers in his apologies isn't enough to absolve him of responsibility or guilt, and he isn't forgiven (specifically regarding c!Purpled.) He still tries regardless and continues trying, even if he's turned down. It's important to him that the people he's hurt know that he regrets it, which he's openly stated to those he objectively hurt the most; Purpled and c!Foolish.

The only people he doesn't care to show remorse for are c!Techno and c!Dream, two people who've hurt him and the people he loves relentlessly, and with total moral abandon. In contrast to this, c!Dream has only ever apologized if it makes him look good or if he knows he can gain something from it. At every opportunity to learn and improve his behavior, he turns away from it and continues hurt others.

He's been confronted with multiple opportunities to confess guilt or remorse for what he did to c!Tommy, to c!Wilbur, to c!Tubbo, and he chose not to. Despite better judgment, he still chooses not to.

c!Quackity cares for innocents, Dream does not.

One of Quackity's most defining character traits is his protective nature—whether for loved ones or naive strangers, this habit is the same. If he finds someone he sees himself in; someone who's defenseless, hurt, or optimistic, his first instinct is to teach them how to protect themselves. He teaches them how to be self-sufficient, guarded, and well-prepared for the horrors of life.

And if they have trouble with this, like c!Charlie or c!Tommy, then he offers them a safe place to stay. With little to no hesitation, he's jumped into dangerous situations, specifically to save the people he loves, at the potential cost of his own life.

Dream, however, revels in being untouchable for cutting all attachment to other people. Even before that moment, he's treated the people he claimed to care about terribly, using them for his own self-gain and then dropping them when they cease to be of use to him. The naive and the helpless are seen as a potential to him—things to prey on, control, triangulate, and destroy.

From his own mouth, he likens everyone, innocent and guilty alike, to a collection of dolls who should stay in their proper rooms and not move.

The victim in Quackity's scenario is c!Dream, not an innocent.

An act of cruelty is only made crueler if it's done against someone who doesn't deserve it. Most people who've been hurt in the story do not deserve the suffering which befell them, but c!Dream is not one of those people. Up until season two's end, Dream has done nothing but destroy communities, deceive his friends, and hurt others.

In fact, a good part of the reason c!Dream ends up in his predicament with Q is because he murdered someone Quackity deeply cared for, who was an innocent.

c!Quackity's actions are framed, narratively, in a polar opposite fashion to Dream's.

Dream's torture, both when it's first revealed and when it's expanded upon, is presented as narrative catharsis for the audience. It's the ultimate karmic retribution for every action c!Dream took to get to that point, and it's made clear through c!Quackity explicitly mentioning c!Tommy's death directly to Dream when he first confronts him.

It's executed with a similar purpose to someone like Joffrey's fate from Game of Thrones. Joffrey's end is a result of his long-standing cruelty to innocents, his cowardice, and his callous brattiness. The method of his death, despite being horrific, is meant to make the audience cheer, and the person responsible for his fate isn't looked at in a bad light, because finally, Joffrey has met a fate fitting to his actions. If anything, there is fondness, because it's a narrative 'justice.'

While c!Quackity's primary motive is retrieving the Revival Book, this is not a source of anger for him, because it's not his initial idea (it was c!Schlatt's.) Quackity's anger comes from his secondary motive, which is personal revenge, for every person c!Dream has hurt; especially for c!Tommy's death. Quackity's relationship with revenge is generally portrayed to be self-destructive, yet it's hard for many not to root for him.

There's a reason people cheer on John Wick, despite the objective abhorrence of his actions, and it's because the audience comes to feel just as much anger at the unfairness of his situation. Therefore, there's catharsis when he finally succeeds in killing the man who took away his last connection to his late wife. c!Quackity is in a similar predicament to this, but he's eternally an underdog, whose greatest triumph also turns into his greatest regret.

Dream's torture is also played for laughs during the Las Nevadas episode two montage, where the editing follows the conventions of dark comedy films, with snappy, quick cuts set to upbeat classical music. This jarringly contrasts the way c!Tommy's abuse is portrayed. Where Tommy's is grounded, startlingly real, and takes its time to show the horrors of his situation, c!Dream's torture is short-lasting and unexplored.

He isn't even the focal point of his own suffering—Quackity is. Without Dream's perspective, most of the audience lacks the equipment to empathize with c!Dream's situation and are therefore more likely to view Q in a favorable light, especially with reference to the despicable nature of Dream's previous actions.

With all this in mind, it seems perfectly natural to root for c!Quackity over c!Dream in practically every fashion. There are even more key differences between these two situations, but this'll go on for Way too long and it's already long as it is. Cheers!

[trenchcoatsbi]

hi, it's Friend 💙🐏 again. realized recently that i might be a Ghostinnit kin as well. so "fun" facts for you:

- i was both revived but. Not at the same time. like i was the definition of "Came Back Wrong." Dream and Punz didn't even know if my revival worked.

- i was somehow still a ghost?? kinda?? like i could bleed (it was a black, inky substance), i could still feel temperature and pain, but i didn't need to eat (still liked to, though), i couldn't die or anything, really (Dream tried to do that to "revive" me again after i came back Like This and it didn't really work), and i could phase through walls and turn myself invisible if i wanted, to name a few. it was weird.

- i had three "moods," if you will: Disturbingly Cheerful (occasionally said the most disturbing s**t unprompted. while just smiling and acting all cheerful. freaked some people out), Sad and Quiet, and Angry (Guess Who Remembered Their Trauma And Is About To Make It Everyone Else's Problem, Bestie?)

- i was the server cryptid. had mixed feelings about that

- i also had complicated feelings about people suddenly being nicer to me after all of The Death Bulls**t (on one hand. this is nice. but on the other hand Why Only Now? Where Was This Kindness When I Was Alive?)

- i died while trying to make it to Techno's cabin. froze to death in the snow. i always felt cold due to this, and not even standing next to Literal Lava could warm me up.

- when my brain decided it was time for the Trauma™️ to get blocked out of my brain, that usually meant Do Not Think About It. trying to Think About It during those times would usually not end well.

- Tubbo, Wilbur, Ranboo, and Quackity were some of the only people who still treated me normally :/ i think Jack and Eret might've as well but i'm not sure.

- the end of "Hansel" by Sodikken fits my feelings of "being bitter that people only really seem to care now that i've died and came back wrong, and i feel like i'm rightfully upset that people suddenly only care now, and not back when i needed their care most." y'know what i'm saying?

anyway. Yeah. having A Time over here in school

- 💙🐏

HI FRIEND!!,

THIS ONE HIT ME PARTICULARLY CLOSELY!! especially rhe last paragraph so i cant read the full thing sorry but WOW. being a ghost type thing seems soooo much cooler than just coming back alive. or maybe it was worse i dunno

bUT tyats!! thats a discovery!!

[needlebeetles]

My take on Lmanburg is that it’s not necessarily a meditation on the corrupting power of hierarchies as a force within the story as a whole (only within the stories of characters like cboreal trio) but rather an extension of the attachments and revenge theme.

L’manburg only exists because people acted like it did. It only exists through the force of the characters attachment to the idea. L’manburg didn’t stop existing because Doomsday “destroyed” the government. It was already being abandoned, doomsday just convinced the remaining people who cared about it that all this attachment would bring them was pain at the hands of others. There is no reason why the remaining members of L’manburg couldn’t have just rebuilt again, besides the fact that everyone who would’ve was either too tired, too scared, or had given up on Lmanburg ever meaning what it once meant to them again. Like. The butcher army isn’t an example of the government using its power unjustly, because they weren’t using the power of L’manburg’s government. They try, and it doesn’t work.

They weren’t being corrupted by the power of government they were being corrupted by their willingness to hurt others to ensure their own security.

Lmanburg and Manburg did a far better job of selling the thing as a “real” (ie populated, with a police force and a level of social power beyond 4 people) country with its elections and the fact that everyone didn’t just kick Schlatt the moment he executed Tubbo, although one could make the argument that they were scared of Punz, George, and Dream, who were backing Schlatt. Wilbur first founds Lmanburg to be this marvelous shining city on a hill with him at the center. He wants to feel important, he wants to protect his friends from what he perceives as Dream’s tyranny, and he wants to sell drugs. His fixation on becoming president again in Pogtopia isn’t necessarily about just about getting the social power of a presidential position back; WILBUR spun Lmanburg out of thin air he could just do it again (I also resent the idea that characters do things for power alone. Saying that X character did it for power is like saying X character did it “to become able”. Finish the sentence, please.) To Wilbur, L’manburg isn’t Lmanburg if he isn’t the centerpiece, and Lmanburg is an extension of himself. His attachment to the country and his association of it with himself is what drives him to suicide and also blowing it up. In New L’manburg, the country just doesn’t come across as an institution in the slightest. They need to bow to the will of one green boi, the president spends most of his time faffing around and building stuff, and the BA army’s house arrest doesn’t work.

L’manburg doesn’t hurt people due to the fact it’s a government, it hurts people because it’s an attachment. Characters hurt each other over L’manburg in the same way Tommy hurts people for the discs in the same way Techno (and Tommy) hurt Connor over his gear. It’s a mediation on how many times you can suffer for something before you throw in the towel.

[enderwalking]

🐺🙂😈 <- but mostly wondering about redeemability for all three tbh

so the questions here are "Should Wilbur get a redemption arc?", "Should Dream get a redemption arc?", and "Is Quackity a villainous character?". and by your phrasing, i'm going to assume the question you're wanting to ask is "are these characters redeemable?" so i'll focus my efforts around answering that.

to preface my answer, i'd like to link this post by my dear good friend and roommate isaiah aetherknit; they made it over a year ago at this point, but it still holds up and it is an excellent summary of my personal view of morality on the dream smp as well. (also if you're not following isaiah what are you even doing here, they're terrifically based and also the best artist/writer of all time, also they basically built c!dnf from the ground up with their bare hands) if you don't feel like clicking through to the post, i'll just pull a couple of the main quotes i want to highlight:

i care way less about whether a character is morally good or bad or right or wrong – i want to know why they did it.

and also

when we talk about redemption, we aren’t talking synonymously about repentance. i don’t talk about redemption as in “can i forgive this character?” i want to know if SOCIETY can forgive this character. will they be welcomed back by the world at large if they eventually feel guilt over their actions and attempt to be better? will the victims forgive them?

that, in essence, is how i view morality and redemption in the dsmp, as well as in broader fiction. i love c!dream, c!wilbur, and c!quackity so, so much; they are all among my top tier favorite characters. and they have all caused a lot of hurt. can they become better? going by my view of real-life morality, sure, i believe that every person in the world has the capacity to change themselves and become better people, given the appropriate time and resources. but these aren't real people, and while the society in which they operate may mirror real life, applying the same logic and morality we do in real life that we do to fictional narratives is ultimately just kinda. boring. i don't like stories and characters because they operate in the same moral framework that i think the real world should operate in; i like stories and characters that show me something interesting and make me feel emotions! and i like when characters are understandable and when their reactions are consistent with their experiences!

so, by that definition of redemption, let's go one by one. (under the cut because god do i talk too much)

do i think c!wilbur is redeemable? well, he's clearly trying to be. c!techno, c!tubbo, and c!eret have all explicitly forgiven him. c!fundy likely never will. jury is still out on c!niki. and c!tommy, well, that's a Whole can of worms that i don't have the time to go into. do i personally find him forgivable for his actions? yes, i do, because i understand his perspective, and i can sympathize with his reasons for acting the way he did.

do i think c!quackity is redeemable? that depends. do i personally find him forgivable? again, honestly, yes. months of repeated daily torture is a fucked up thing to do, but again, i understand why he did it, and i find his reasons sympathetic. do i think c!dream will forgive him? that's a whole different question that i could honestly see going either way (c!dream has some fucked up views of his own personhood, what can i say). do i think the server at large would forgive and accept c!quackity for his crimes? that vastly depends on the individuals, and either way i think it would be a very interesting source of conflict that i would love to see explored.

now for the kicker: do i think c!dream is redeemable? again, it depends. do i think that c!tommy or c!tubbo, for instance, could or should ever forgive and accept c!dream? Absolutely Fucking Not. i think they are both well within their rights to want c!dream dead and gone forever. do i think the server at large would ever accept c!dream? well, i think c!george would. and i think ultimately, if c!dream did prove that he was trying to be better, that c!sapnap also would. maybe a couple others. but for the most part, i highly doubt it; even if he did attempt reparations, i think enough people have soured views of him that there's no way that he could ever go back to just living amongst everyone the way he used to. and honestly, i don't think he should after everything. ideally, i would like for him to eventually see the error of his ways and realize that his plans are not worth the harm he has caused other people, and i can definitely see that happening at some point in the future, but i don't see that leading to a zuko-style arc where he's eventually accepted as One Of The Guys; i just don't think that would make sense for him or for the other characters involved.

now do i, personally, find c!dream's actions forgivable? it's...complicated. technically, the answer is no. like, his treatment of c!tommy is fucked, and i don't think any amount of reasoning can make his decision to do All That understandable to me. (there's a whole different essay i could write about c!tommy and abuse and the different ways in which he has experienced abuse and the different levels of intention and care his abusers have had, but i'll leave that for another time when i am feeling less kind haha.) however, that doesn't mean i don't find him enjoyable as a character, and it definitely doesn't mean i can't find him sympathetic at all! obviously i'm still out here loving him and analyzing the fuck out of his actions because i find him extremely compelling. it just means that on that particular note i'm like, my brother i am Not on your side with this one it does not matter what you say lmao

i think it's understandable, however, that for other people when they can't forgive c!dream it means that they stop caring about anything beyond the wrongs he's done unto their favs. i'm basically that way about c!sam, like i can recognize that he had his reasons and that he can be an interesting character in his own right, but i personally don't care to talk about or analyze him because my primary thought when it comes to c!sam is he murdered my boy. so i don't necessarily begrudge the c!inniters for doing the same with c!dream lol

ALL IN ALL, to answer the original questions from the ask meme: should wilbur get a redemption arc? i mean, he's already in the process of one. is quackity a villainous character? depends on who you're talking to; to dream, yes. to foolish, yes. to someone like tommy, no. all about perspective! and should dream get a redemption arc? well i want him to see the error of his ways, but i'm not particularly interested in seeing him do an apology tour a la wilbur or in seeing him be universally accepted by the server after everything; i just don't think it would be narratively satisfying for anyone involved.

[glazebowstuffz]

Son of a God AU

Alone...

[Only Tommy and mentions of everyone else]

Tommy's void wasn't normal. It was actually nothing, just an empty void like space. Maybe it was because he's part god himself or maybe he's too young to die. Very confusing for him but it wasn't always so bad, Kristen, Mumza had found him and she took him with her to a special place of a small patch of flowers with a one giant tree. It was similar to the same tree that he used to play on as a younger child in his old house with Phil, Wilbur, and Techno. It didn't stop there, Mumza had asked if he'll be willing to help her with guiding lost souls to the afterlife. Of course Tommy said yes, he was able to stay close to his mumza and he wasn't alone anymore. This went on for years or at least he thinks it has. Time isn't any easy to tell here in limbo, Tommy was now considered an adult and none of his birthday were miss because he had Mumza with him. But it didn't stop the feeling of missing everyone else. Dadza and his annoying crows, Wilbur just being chaotic, Techno reading to him, Niki and her amazing delicious treats, Tubbo with crazy ideas and bees... he really misses them.

One day- or night? He didn't know time anymore. Mumza told Tommy to stay by the tree and not to wonder off. She had to go visit another God or whatever she said, Tommy wasn't paying attention but he knew he couldn't follow her. He did what he was told... until he was bored. He got up and started walking around. It was nice for awhile but until he couldn't make his way back to the tree. He tried running, flying even but he couldn't find Mumza or that special place. He was lost in the void again... it's been months by now and he was still waiting for Mumza to find him but something else had found him instead. "Tommy?" He looked up from his knees to find a goat hybrid dictator...

"Schlatt? What the fuck..."

"What the hell are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be in Manburg celebrating your victory? Also look at you not a child anymore! Also were you always this tall?"

"I was NEVER a child... as for the height... uh, a god thing I guess... That fight was over 14 years ago... I think. Time is weird here... I can't even remember what the sun looks like."

"Eh you get used to it. Want a beer?" He hands a beer bottle to Tommy.

"No, I declined your offer. How can you still be drinking? Isn't that what killed you?"

"Yeah and? Look I'm already dead. What? Is it going to kill me more?" He did have a point but Tommy would never say aloud. "That's what I thought." He drinks it down. "One thing I miss about being alive is the taste. I can't taste shit here! Anyways kid how'd you kick the bucket?"

"Trying to save Wilbur from himself... He made Da- Phil to stap him and shit, so I stepped in the way and fell off the now Manburg's huge hole. Which Wil made because of that button."

"Wow, fucked up, shit..."

"He only did it because of you! Exiling us, winning L'Manburg... why?"

"I was drunk. Honestly I don't know why I even did it... I went mad with power I guess but I didn't even want to be president. But I made my choice and got what I deserve. I know it doesn't mean anything now but I'm sorry Tommy." Tommy sighs.

"I guess... I accept-" As he looks over towards Schlatt he finds nothing. He was alone again. "Mumza... where are you?"

"I'm not a "Mumza" but I can help." A voice came behind but Tommy knows that voice. It was a traitor who abandoned them and chose a tyrant over freedom. He gets up from the ground.

"Dream?" Tommy looks behind himself but he sees nothing.

"Down here big man!" He looks down only to see a tiny Dream, he would be no bigger then his hand. Unlike Schlatt who was about a head taller then Dream.

"What the fuck!? When did you get tiny?"

"More of the other way around... I'm normal size but you, your a giant!"

"Beside the point..." Tommy remembers Kristen mentioning to him that his godly powers would show more, but honestly he didn't think that was true, maybe because she was still taller then him. "What do you want Dream?"

"Obviously you died, like anyone here in limbo. This isn't the first-" Tommy stops him as he hears an echo. It's small yes but still very noticeable in the silent void. Thump thump, ba boom, ba bump and lub-dub. "As i was saying... What do I want? Well I came here to REVIVE you. Everyone misses you Tommy. And I miss you messing around in the server. I want the Tommyinnit back and alive."

"What? Revive me? That's impossible..."

"If it is... explain why I'm here talking with you, right now?" Dream smiles under his already smiley mask. Tommy was unsure... it couldn't be possible? Dream found a way to bring him back with everyone. He is brought out of his thoughts when he hears it again... It was a heartbeat that was coming from Dream. Tommy's eyes had gone wide, he reaches over to Dream grabbing him in one hand swoop. He places him closer towards his ear. "What the- Tommy!!" Tommy just shushes him as he puts his ear on his chest. Thump thump, ba boom, ba bump and lub-dub. Again. Being a bit faster but it was there... the sound of a heart. He slowly brings Dream away from his ear. Now they are meeting eye to eye. Tommy holds him in both of his now flat hands.

"How the fuck did you get here? And how are you alive?"

"Let's make a deal... how about it Tommy? I bring to back with me and you have to rescue me from prison."

"You're in jail!? What did you do?"

"Eh, destroyed the community house... twice and not to mention destroyed New L'Manburg after rebuilding."

"They made another L'Manburg???" Tommy thought back to what Techno said... government really does suck... it may had corrupted Tubbo as well...

"Yup as Tubbo is the president. He even exiled Wilbur after he burned down George's house." Tommy gasped.

"I told him to fix his mess! Not make it worse... also he burn Gogy's house!? Who does that... funny but still... wait Tubbo exiled Wilbur?"

"Yeah, he did. He even told me to escort him out."

"Techno was right... power really does corrupt people... so that's the whole deal? After you destroyed L'Manburg they put you in prison?"

"Sadly yes... I joined Techno because he's was right about the government... after the whole scenario when everything was calm. They found me and locked me up. They're trying to get Techno too."

"That's the whole deal... you revive me and I just break you out of jail? Is there anything else I should know?"

"Well yes one more problem... I would have to transfer your ghost here to replace you."

"My ghost? I had a ghost around as me??"

"Oh yeah, he was kinda like you... more on the happier side that is. He called himself Toast and had all your happy memories. Here put me down I'll show you." Just as Dream said Tommy put him down and out of nowhere a little ghost of Tommy's past appeared. Toast seemed to be crying blue tears.

"He promised..." Toast said in a shacky voice trying to hold tears back from falling but failing to do so.

"Who promised?" Tommy asked looking down at the small ghost of his past self.

"Wilby... he gave me his word that I wouldn't get hurt...he gave me his word!" Tommy's felt pity for the ghost...

"I-..." at a lost of words Tommy picks up the little ghost and give him a hug. "Don't worry I'll talk with him... you'll just wait right here for mumza to pick you up. I promise she'll take good care of you." He whisper to Toast.

"Mumza... she's really here?"

"Yeah, she'll take you with her and you won't be alone... you'll have to wait. I give you big innit's word." Toast seemed to just nod as Tommy gently places him on the ground once more. "Alright Dream... you got yourself a deal. After breaking you out... I don't want anything else to do with you. Got it?"

"Of course! You won't ever have to see me again. Last thing is to shack my hand." Dream said as he raises his arm out to him. Tommy Shook his hand and the whole room went dark.

As Tommy open his eyes he found himself under water. He quickly swam up to the surface just in time. The hole that he fell in although years ago was much deeper and even plants started growing from it. Above him as a bridge vines were hanging from it so he took his chance and grab on one. He climb it all the way to the top. He noticed that he was normal height again but even after looking at his reflection he was still older looking. 'At least I'm not as old as Phil.' He chuckle to himself. He looked around not seeing anyone the moon was already setting down as a new day was just beginning. Although something did caught his eyes... it was a grave. He walked towards it getting of the bridge that was probably made by Phil since he recognized that way his dad built. As Tommy looks at the grave there was a chest with Wilbur's old jacket he used in pogtopia was inside. He took it and wears it. 'I remember when this was too big for me... now it fits, hope he doesn't mind." He finally looks at the sign. "Tommyinnit "Theseus" Minecraft... a son, a brother, a best friend... May you be at peace with L'Manburg Symphony."

"T-Tommy?" A voice calls out to him. He turns around facing Wilbur, Tubbo, and another person he never meant before. Both Tubbo and Wilbur's eyes were wide staring up at Tommy.

Tommy smiled. "Did you miss me?" He said as the sun rose more into the sky.

[dsmpkinfessions]

By the way, c!Wilbur IRL again, for all the people who said that I had messed up:

I did. I did and it was wrong. But I did not mess up in some of the ways that I did in canon. My memories are very divergent, in some regards.

If someone vents about those things, it may be a good idea to take into account what I just said- I may recall things differently. Saying "yes, you did mess up and ruin shit for me" while well-meaning, can be disheartening and seem very rude, like how I took it.

Thank you for not hating me Tommy, I appreciate it,

However, consider the fact that as I said earlier- I may be a c!Wilbur IRL, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I am 100% like the source material. I definitely wasn't. While yes, I did lash out during psychotic episodes, it never was a jab directed at only Tommy.

Alongside that, I apologised when I felt the time was right, and that's when me and Tommy worked out a system.

If I needed help- perhaps being reality checked out of my villain delusion, I'd go to someone in Pogtopia and they'd help me, but if I needed my own time alone, I could use sign language to communicate it- as speaking and certain sounds were triggers for my BPD and could set me off. (for context, I knew sign language because me and Technoblade would have nonverbal episodes growing up (autism/adhd/other forms of neurodivergency being the cause), and Technoblade also had difficulty hearing at times.)

If Tommy needed help, he'd do the same thing, except mostly for him it was PTSD and PTSD-induced psychotic episodes and paranoia.

After Tubbo got hurt, I apologised to Tommy and owned up to how it was my fault, and that I shouldn't have let it happen. Tommy was mad at me for a while, and I allowed that- I understood why he was upset, and I didn't hold it against him for it or expect forgiveness.

Oh, and not only that- I didn't ask him to fight for me. I didn't ask anyone to. In fact, I had a fight with Tommy explaining why he was too young to be in a war. As Tommy does, however (/pos, /lh), he disobeyed. And while I didn't want him to fight, I'll love him forever for deciding to be my right hand man. I appreciate it beyond compare to anything else.

Me and Tommy were each other's support beams, instead of him being mine and his efforts not being returned equally.

I would also like to mention that I am mostly an IRL of Early DSMP era Wilbur to Pre-Utah era Wilbur. I never left Tommy. In fact, we moved in together, somewhere far away from the SMP, with Phil, Techno, Ranboo, Tubbo and Niki as our neighbours who decided to tag along.

Me and Tommy understood that we both had trauma. We were both victims of betrayal and being stabbed in the back.

I'm sorry If I seem angry, or discombobulated, or disorganised, or if my thing falls on deaf ears- I often ramble, my apologies.

But, I'm not genuinely pissed off. Maybe frustrated? Miffed? But that's about it.

Thank you for your time.

[bluedragonfairy2000]

Brother in a Bottle

Chapter 1, Chapter 2 (here), Chapter 3, Chapter 4, Chapter 5, Chapter 6

Chapter 2: a Brand New World

Both Phil and Techno were startled by the sudden outpour of curse words that came from Tommy. Phil jumped back in alarm and Techno covered one of his ears with his free hand to shield himself from the surprisingly loud creature. Tommy continued to curse the two guys out while swimming around the bottle frantically until he tired himself out. Once he was finished Tommy sank to the bottom of the bottle and tried to catch his breath. Techno cautiously looked at the bottle before looking back at each other.

"So... What should we do about this?" Techno asked completely at a loss for what to do.

"I'm not sure" Phil admits "We should probably tell Wilbur about what you found."

Phil pulls out his phone and texts Wilbur saying that Techno found something and that he needs to come back to the car immediately. After about ten minutes Wilbur comes sprinting up to the group. He is out of breath but he looks eager to find out what Techno found.

"So" Wilbur pants out "What did you guys find?"

Techno hands Wilbur the water bottle and while Wilbur is at first confused, his eyes grow wide when they finally see what is inside the bottle.

"Woah!" Wilbur says with sparkling eyes "It's a mermaid! Or I guess a merboy? This is amazing! This could be the discovery of the century!" Wilbur says eagerly.

"Hey! I am not a boy! I am a man!" Tommy says puffing his chest out,

"Slow down Wil," Techno says "Your getting ahead of yourself, first off if this is a mermaid why is it so small?

"I am not small!" Tommy yelled, "I am the biggest man you'll ever see!" Tommy claims even though he had to look up to even say this to Techno.

"He could be a special species, or it could be the reason no one has ever found a mermaid before! Maybe mermaids are smaller than previously thought!" Wilbur says excitedly.

Tommy wanted to make fun of this guy since he knew for a fact that not only did human-sized mermaids exist but that there were even some species of mermaids that were a hundred feet long on the low end. Tommy decides to keep this little detail to himself though. After all, he didn't want to be the reason that mermaid started getting hunted down.

"What about his tail? Aren't mermaid tails supposed to look similar to dolphin tails?" Techno asked.

"Oh please, Techno" Wilbur sighed "That's probably just a movie thing. This little guy's tail looks much closer to a fish's tail if you ask me! I wonder what kind of fish his tail resembles? Here Phil hold this! I need to google fish species real quick!" Wilbur says as he thrusts the bottle at Phil who is startled but manages to grab the bottle without dropping it.

Phil watches as his kids continue to argue about the nature of mermaids while Wilbur scrolls through his phone looking at all kinds of fish. He lets out a sigh before looking back down at the boy. Phil notices that the human part of the little mermaid looks quite young, if he had to guess he would probably place the kid somewhere in the twelve to fourteen age range. He also notices that while the boy has put on a brave and angry façade, his eyes show that deep down this kid is terrified. Phil guesses that if he was in this kid's place he would probably feel the same way. Phil gently brings the bottle up to his face so that he can be eye to eye with the boy. When he starts to move the bottle the boy turns around quickly to see what is going on

"What's your name, little guy?" Phil asked softly.

"Who are you calling little! like I told those other guys I am the biggest man around and I could easily beat up a geezer like you!" Tommy shouted at Phil.

Phil chuckles before continuing "I'm sure you could, but before you do any of that could I please have your name?"

"Why should I tell you! You and your friends seem like a bunch of wrongns to me!" Tommy says glaring at Phil

"I just want to help you, but that will be a little difficult if I don't even know who I am helping. If it helps you feel more comfortable I could tell you our names first then you could tell us yours." Phil says

Tommy stared at Phil suspiciously before lowering his head slightly and mumbling out an "ok."

Phil gave Tommy a soft smile before he started his introduction "My name is Phil Watson, the two boys arguing over fish terminology are my sons Wilbur and Techno."

"Which one is the pink-haired fellow?" Tommy asks as he had never seen a human with pink hair before.

"That would be Techno, Wilbur has the short, brown, curly hair. Now can I have your name?" Phil asked gently.

Tommy looked away from Phil and contemplated the risks of giving his name out to a human. Phil was just beginning to think that the boy wasn't going to tell him at all when he heard the little mermaid mumble something out.

"Hmm? What was that?" Phil asked while looking back at the boy in the bottle.

"Tommy, my name is Tommy Kraken Innit," Tommy said while still looking away from Phil

"It's nice to meet you, Tommy," Phil said fondly. When Tommy went to look back at Phil he found that the man was giving him a kind smile. The smile was so warm that Tommy couldn't help but return it.

"I Found It!" Wilbur shouted causing Phil to jump.

"What did you find Wilbur?" Phil asked in confusion.

"I found out what kind of fish the mermaid is! He is a betta fish!" Wilbur said showing his phone off to his dad.

Phil looked down at Wilbur's phone, on it were various pictures of fish. All of the pictures showed small body fish with large fan-like tails and fins that were almost as big as their bodies. Most of the pictures showed the fish have either red or blue scales, sometimes they are both red and blue scales, and other times their scales would be other colors. Phil took one look at Tommy, and he could see why Wilbur came to this conclusion. The biggest reason for this was Tommy's tail and fins. Most other fishtails were usually triangular and tended to stay stationary as they swam. Tommy's tail had a more rounded shape and almost reminded Phil of a seashell. On top of that Tommy's tail danced around in the water as he swam almost as if it were made of fabric. Finally, while Tommy's fins were much smaller they seemed to share similar properties to his tail which matched the general shape and appearance of the betta fish that Wilbur had pulled up on his phone.

"I think your right, good job Wilbur," Phil said. Wilbur beamed under Phil's praise.

Techno rolled his eyes "Ok that's all well and good, but now what do we do?"

"Well... I guess it would be best to return him to where he belongs. Do you know where your family is?" Phil asked

"Not really, Brine Catcher's don't have a family structure our parents only stick around to protect the eggs, once we hatch were on our own, like most other fish," Tommy says with a shrug.

"What's a Brine Catcher?" Wilbur asked

"It's what I am, half-human, half-fish," Tommy says leaving out the part where only mermaids under twelve inches are called by this name.

"Wait... so all mermaids are orphans. Way to ruin the magic for me" Techno said.

Phil only gave Tommy a sad look before continuing "Ok then, do you know where your home is?"

"Of course I do! it's right over... um." Tommy looked out at the ocean and realized that due to the storm throwing him around and knocking him out last night he had no clue how he was supposed to get back to his home in the coral reef. For all, he knew he was miles away from where he first started.

"So let me get this straight. you have no family, no clue on how to get home, and your about the size where any fish you encounter will attempt to eat you. Do you want us to put you back into the ocean?" Wilbur asked skeptically.

Tommy paused for a second before speaking "Yes, I can figure my way back home, and any fish that tries to attack me I will fight off. I don't need any help, I have been managing fine on my own so far, so I'm sure I can do this." he said. Though it sounded more like he was saying this to himself than to any of the guys.

The group gave each other matching looks as Tommy was looking out at the ocean. They gave each other a nod before Phil started speaking to Tommy again.

"Hey Tommy, if you want you can stay with us for a little while. You can stay at our house for tonight and if you still want to go back to the ocean tomorrow then we can rent a boat and take you out to the nearest coral reef. You should be able to find a safe spot to live where no other fish will be able to bother you. How does that sound?" Phil asked gently.

Tommy looked up at the three humans with trepidation. He wanted to refuse their offer but he wasn't so confident he could find his way home tonight. Perhaps if these humans kept to their word then it would be easier to just go with them tonight and make his way home tomorrow.

Tommy let out a reluctant sigh. "Ok just for tonight though and if any of you try anything with me I will bite you," Tommy says as he turns around and glares at his captors.

The group perks up at this. "Great! we should probably go to the fish store so that you don't have to stay in a water bottle all night" Phil says.

"I look up what Betta fish need to be comfortable," Wilbur says while pulling out his phone again.

"Good Idea Wilbur! Techno can you hold Tommy while I drive." Phil asked. Techno mumbled out a "sure" as he took the bottle from Phil.

With that, the group headed to the car carrying what little litter they had managed to collect. As they started to drive away Tommy couldn't help but look at the ocean and wonder if this was going to be the last time he would ever see it.

[soullessfawn]

For the peoples coming here not from my ao3, hi! This is the first draft of my 100k hit fic A Packs Dawning! Almost none of this is cannon to the actual fic, it’s just the first thing I’ve ever wrote concerning it. You can easily see some differences in where I actually started the fic and it’s characters. All my notes, extra scenes and planning will be posted after the fics done, like I did with my last 100k fic. This is only a gift for everyone who likes the story and want extra content! Hope you enjoy!

Ranboo woke up on the floor. He growled as he sat up. He looked around the room. Once spotting the clock he looked at the time. It was around the time he should be getting up. Ranboo stood up and groaned as a hot flash pain spread across his neck. Sleeping on the floor was not good for his muscles. Ranboo stretched as he let out a yawn. Pain faltering and forgotten as he makes his way out of the room.

Two voices came from the kitchen. Ranboo followed them seeing both Phil and Wilbur chatting. Ranboo smiled as he sat down on a stool. He got here two days ago for a big meet up. It’s been really fun so far. “Ranboo good morning.” Phil said as he looked over at the teen. His coconut scent has a tint of sugar in his good mood.

“Morning.” He greets back. Wilbur walks over resting a hand on his back.

“Want anything? Today’s going to be a big day” Wilbur smiled. Ranboo smiled and nodded his head. “What will it be?” He asked as he walked over to the fridge.

“Do you have any eggs?” He asked, making Wilbur turn to Phil. Phil nodded as he started the coffee maker. And that’s how breakfast got started. Without any more time the other people in the house flooded in. Them being Tubbo, Tommy, Techno and Kristen. The day was on the way and Ranboo felt great. Or not. He didn’t quite understand the weird feelings that came up throughout the day...

~*^*~

They talked as they picked a chair to sit down in the dining room. After the day they had they were all a bit physically tired. Running up and down as they picked out places to go. It was fun. But a bit detracting at the same time. Ranboo seemed to switch from happy to sad a lot during their time out. He didn’t understand. It was mostly overshadowed by his excitement but it was still there.

“Oh tomorrow we definitely need to hit the arcade!” Tubbo announced. A bright smile on his face.

“Oh definitely. Phil said we could also head to this cool ice cream shop tomorrow.” Tommy leaned back in his seat. Ranboo listened to the two for a bit. Happy to be with his friends.

“If we're going to the arcade we have to have a challenge to see who can get the most tickets.” He filled in. Tubbo clapped his hands together grinning.

“I bet I’ll win boss man. You're totally on!”.

Tommy sat up from his leaning position. “You guys won’t come close to how many I’ll get! Big man TommyInnit is the best at arcade games…”

Ranboo watched as Tommy stopped mid sentence. He furrowed his brow as he tilted his head up. He took a big sniff of the air. Tubbo turned to their friend confused. He also went to sniff the air. Ranboo copied the two wanting to find out what got their attention. He didn’t smell anything different. The two boys' eyes widened as they snapped their heads back down to him. “What?” He asked. Because really, what got their attention like this?

“You smell like fucking caramel.” Tommy said now looking a bit worried.

“I do?” Ranboo lifted his hand to his nose and sniffed. He didn’t have any caramel scented soaps. He shouldn’t smell like caramel. “I don’t smell it.”

Tubbo shook his head. “Not like that Ranboo. He means you smell like caramel.” Tubbo also started to look worried. After saying that Ranboo thought for a second. He didn’t have anything caramel scented. He doesn’t even eat caramel or anything that has caramel in it. Then why were they saying he smelled like caramel?

oh shit

Ranboo froze. What has been happening to him today was finally making sense. The cravings, mood changes, even down to the neck pain he’s been feeling. It all makes sense. How could he not notice!? His parents had kinda told him what he should expect from his body when he’s presenting. Yet he’s only picked up on it when he wasn’t even in his own country. When someone had to point out his new scent for him. Ranboo felt scared. Of what little he knew of presenting is that it’ll get worse before it gets better.

He’s watched too many bad presenting experiences on YouTube to know that he never wanted to go through it. Ranboo didn’t notice the small and scared whine he let out as his lips started to quiver. Or his two friends getting out of their seats to rush over to him. He wanted to disappear. To not be here anymore. Anywhere really. Why did this have to happen today-

“-nboo? Ranboo I need you to calm down.” Tubbo’s voice broke through his hazed panic. Because of him presenting or of his nerves he didn’t know. But his head felt a bit clouded now. Thoughts flutter around his mind. Tubbo turned to Tommy. “Tommy you're louder than me, call them.”

Ranboo knew who Tubbo was referring to. The only four adults in the house. The three adults were in the living room down the hall. While they were in the dining room. Before just chatting about how much fun they had that day but now all freaking out. “Phil, Wilbur, Techno, Kristen! We need help!” At the mention of more people knowing what’s going on Ranboo shook his head. This was already bad enough. He didn’t want more people!

“Ranboo it’s okay. They're going to help.” He just continued to shake his head no as he slumped against the table. With the arrival of his scent came a headache. Also cold? He felt cold. Too cold. He started to shiver. Heavy footsteps bounded their way down the hall. Four pairs to be exact. All four of the adult scents had a hint of panic. Ranboo looked up to see the four rush in. Phil was in front as he looked over at Tommy, then Tubbo and finally Ranboo.

“What’s going on-“ Ranboo’s once neutral and bland caramel scent spiked. The scent was bold, in your face and filled with fear. Phil’s eyes widened and so did everyone else’s. Ranboo flinched as he finally caught the smell of his own scent. The smell made his nose feel like it was one fire. A hint of salt filled it causing both Tommy and Tubbo to turn to him surprised. One word filled his mind. Alpha.

The adults paused, clearly taken aback by the overbearing scent. Ranboo whimpered as his headache became worse with his scent's quick change. “He’s presenting.” Techno says snapping out of it first.

Tubbo frowned as he started to rub his back. “It’s okay.” He whispered. Ranboo didn’t like how his fear was now showcased in his salty caramel scent. Tubbo turned to the adults in the room. “I have no idea what to do.”

“Neither do I. He just stared smelling like fucking caramel out of nowhere!” Tommy oh so helpfully added in.

Phil shook his head as he crossed the dining room. He crouched next to him. Phil let out a calming coconut scent. It made Ranboo physically relax. “Ranboo do you know what’s happening?” Ranboo looked over at Phil nodding slowly.

“Pre-presenting...” His voice shifted into a whine half way as his headache continued to pick up. He leaned his forehead on the table.

Something deep in him told him to scream. His fear mixed with anger. Why is he hurting? Just a minute ago he was fine! Make it go away! Make the pain go away! He gripped his head, tangling his fingers with his hair. He lifted his head and hit it against the table. His mind now was too cloudy to understand what he was doing. “Whao! Okay so we’re not going to be doing any of that!” Techno yelled, making Ranboo look up. Tubbo and Tommy shared a glance to Wilbur and Kristen asking for help.

“You boys with me.” Kristen said as she waved her hand to make the two come with her.

“But he-“

“No but’s. Ranboo is extremely vulnerable right now and you two being here will only make him feel worse. I’m sorry to be blunt but you can’t be here. After he calms down yes, but right now you two come with me.” The older woman said. Making both boys whine.

Tubbo turned to him as Techno put his hand under his head. To stop him from hurting himself. “We’ll be in the living room, big man. If you need us just call.” Ranboo didn’t have time to nod as both boys walked over to Kristen.

Tommy turned back looking very concerned. “Just call. And we’ll be by your side in a matter of seconds.” With that Kristen led them out of the room.

Ranboo tried to hit his head against the table but hit soft hands instead. He just wanted the pain to go away. He was so confused. “Ranboo I need you to stop that. You're going to hurt yourself.” Ranboo just shook his head at Phil’s words.

“...it h-hurts.”

“I know. I know it hurts. It’s going to pass soon okay?” He was surprised. That wasn’t Phil. That was Techno. Techno’s words not Phil’s “Wilbur I need you to get a cloth and wet it with very cold water. Wing it out, don’t make it soaked. Phil, I need you to get anything breakable out of his room. We're going to move him there.” Techno took charge. Wilbur didn’t say a word as he left the room to do his task.

Phil stood up and looked at the other. Ranboo tries to hit his head once more but is blocked by Techno’s hands again. He whined at not being able to do it. It was like someone was playing drums on his skull. “Techno how do you-“

“Just trust me.” Techno looked down at Ranboo. His chocolate scent rising and becoming more bold. The universal alpha scent flooding into the once neutral one. “I know what I’m doing.” Techno was an alpha.

Phil sniffed at the air and smiled. “Alright. I trust you. Anything else I should do with the room?”

“Also get a lot of blankets and pillows.” Phil nodded and left the room. Ranboo could feel tears fall and rub against his cheeks. He whimpered into the other's hands. “I know, I know.” The two scents in the air mixed for a few seconds. Smelling like chocolate caramel before Techno’s overpowered his. It made Ranboo’s nose stop burning and he stopped whining. He looked up with tears in his eyes.

“T-Techno your a…” Ranboo bit his lip as his head pounded again.

“Alpha, ya.” The older male filled in for him. “No more hitting your head.” Techno’s monotone voice slipped into one of scolding. “The pain will pass. You're just hurting yourself.” He reached a hand over and cupped his cheeks. Wiping away stray tears. “Have your parents talked to you about presenting?” Ranboo shrugged as he leaned into the touch.

“A bit, that 'll hurt. What to look out for.” Techno hummed as he rounded the table. Ranboo whined at his hand leaving his cheek. His mind already started to clear up. His cheeks turned a shade of red. Why had he started banging his head against the table?

“Alright. I need you to take a few big breaths for me. I don’t need you passing out.” Ranboo nodded as he began to take large and shaky breaths. Techno’s chocolate scent made it easier to breathe. Like it itself was saying he was okay. It took a minute for him to calm down fully. “You're going to be okay.”

“...Alright.”

“So do you know about presenting as an alpha?” Techno’s said out of the blue seriously. A total change from his calming self before.

“There’s a d-difference?”

“Oh geez kid. There’s definitely a difference. Like how you hit your head off the table. Self aggression.” Techno stated as he bent down in front of his seat. Ranboo closed his eyes slightly. His headache started to die down. The pounding on his skill now a soft tap.

“...self aggression.” He said to himself. Earning a hum and a nod in response. Maybe that’s why he wanted to scream before. He still felt angry. He was still confused.

“Got the cloth.” Wilbur said as he entered the room. He looked more concerned than Techno and Phil was. “Is he okay?”

“Ya. At least for now.” Ranboo didn’t like the last bit of his sentence. Wasn’t the hard part done now? Wilbur crossed the room and handed Techno the cloth. Techno folded it in hand and laid it on the back of Ranboo’s neck. He shivered from the coldness and then found himself relaxing into it. “That should help your scent calm down.” Techno muttered. Ranboo found that he really liked the cold cloth.

That’s also when his nose found another scent. A burnt woody scent that was lined with concern or even fear. Ranboo looked over at Wilbur. His eyes widened. Adults had amazing control over their scents. But when it comes to sudden and large emotions they might not notice their scent start to carry an undertone in it. The undertone being their second gender. Wilbur’s scent now carried a small undertone.

Omega

Techno didn’t seem to notice it yet. But Ranboo definitely did. His growing inner alpha practically purred at the smell. He wanted to smell more of the woody smell his friend was giving off. It made him feel needy. Wilbur was talking with Techno. Probably about Ranboo presenting and what they should do. Because even if they were adults they weren’t in his pack. When a pup presents they should be around their pack. No buts or ifs about it. Yet Ranboo couldn’t care less about his parents pack right now.

Because that’s what it was. His parents pack. He was unscented and technically without a pack. Ranboo stared at Wilbur’s neck. Where his scent glands sat. He wanted the omega to scent him. He didn’t know why, or even how the thought had made its way to his head. But he wanted Wilbur to scent him. He’d smelt the man’s scent all over Tommy, Phil, Kirsten, Techno and even Tubbo. Yes Tommy and Tubbo were still in their parents pack since they haven’t presented but it was no surprise that they also smelled like this pack.

Techno’s pack. As Techno was the only alpha in it that Ranboo could guess. Phil and Kristen were still a mystery when it came to the second gender thing. Ranboo let out a shaky breath as he looked over at Techno. He also stared at his neck. His inner young alpha also purred at the thought of Techno scenting him. Having a older alpha to play fight with-

Ranboo shook his head. What was he thinking? Play fighting? They weren’t his pack; he couldn’t just have them scent him. What would his parents think? He comes home an alpha and now belonging to another pack? They would be pissed and never let him go on meet ups again! Or even out of the country! He looked between the two as they continued to talk. “The rooms all done.” Phil’s voice made the two men stop talking. They turned to him.

Phil looked over at Ranboo making him flinch. He wanted him to scent him too. Oh god-

“Thanks. Ranboo you okay to move?” Techno said as he turned to him. Ranboo looked up.

“Move where?” His headache was fully gone now. But now his mind was filled with weird thoughts that he didn’t understand. Screaming at him to do something. Something that he felt like he needed to do but didn’t know what it was. One of them he did understand. He wanted the three adults to scent him. Maybe even Kristen. But he tried to push that one away.

“To your room. It’s going to be more comfortable than sitting on a chair for the rest of the night. Plus your baby instincts are going to start kicking in. Like your self aggression.” Wilbur sent Techno a confused look but didn’t interrupt. “Plus your going to want to make a nest so moving you to your room now would be-“

His eyes widened as Techno went on. The noise somehow being blocked out. Muffled. His inner alpha started screaming. Or was it baby instincts? He didn’t care what it was called. What he did care about was the fact he really likes the sound of making a nest. A nest keeps the family safe and together. A nest was good. And he could make one. Him, not his parents. Him. “I wanna make a nest!” He yelled interrupting Techno as he jumped out of his seat.

Techno didn’t look mad at the outburst though. Phil looked somewhat amused and Wilbur looked like he was about to coo at him. “C-can I make a nest?” He said more quietly this time. The need for approval is clear in his voice. He wanted to make his friends happy. The look they gave him made him hunch in on himself. Maybe he shouldn’t have yelled.

“Of course you can.” Wilbur said with a smile. A knowing one that made Ranboo feel less embarrassed about his outburst.

And that’s all! After I was done writing this part and saw how long it was getting already I decided to change it up a bit. I basically rebooted the fic, started at a different spot and wiped the world building slate clean. Well, almost. There are still some similarities between this old draft and the finale fic. I’m not going to go into detail about my feelings as that’s for when this fics completed but I was NOT halogen about how this turned out. I’m much more happy with what I have now with the change from making Ranboo and alpha to and omega. I don’t have anything else to say so, later!

Also to anyone who wants to go read it, here!

[enneamage]

I was reading up on compatibility, and it seems type threes get along with type nines (best compatibility), but Niki looked so emotionally drained at the end of the relationship. I suppose in a different case, if Wilbur had been a better person and decided to improve, this relationship would have worked?

It would also make sense that you said that Wilbur seems to be obsessed with nines and why he really seemed to be looking for that relationship with George (a nine). but it's also interesting that although techno, phil and jack seem to get along with him, tubbo, niki and george seem to keep a distance from him

however, I could be very wrong, so if you could tell us pls about the compatibility (or a reliable article about it) I would really appreciate it!

It’s generally the job of people who write type descriptions to make nearly every couple sound like a good idea under the right circumstances, and a bad idea under the wrong ones. They’ll always do a little disclaimer saying that any two types can get along with each other as long as they’re “healthy,” and that is worth believing. However, people as individuals do tend to drift towards the same kinds of people over their lifetime, and there do seem to be some skews with who winds up finding who.

Types that come up the most often in relationships tend to have compatible good sides as well as compatible bad sides. This is a bit of grey-moral observation, but it’s one I’ve noticed. It might be great for some individual Nines and Threes, but in other cases it can be “an easy pattern to fall into,” if that makes sense. Since I already gave a nugget of 3/9 best-case scenario in the Nikibur breakdown for contrast, I’ll give a more harsh one here.

In a romatic context, it's not unusual for less considerate Threes to trample over Nines or use them as emotional gas-stations. They can set the agenda for their everyday lives and can become a little too used to the fact that the Nines don’t assert their desires, switching between using them as a safe haven and ignoring them in order to get work done. On the other hand, while Nines might not overtly pick fights until they’re badly worn down, they’re still capable of being very stubborn. A strange balance of deep dependence and self-regulation sets in, where they vent their anger passive-aggressively but begin to feel afraid of being abandoned. They can step into emotional disconnection in order to handle the lows of the relationship, making them check out mentally. In a way they can both freeze over, locking each other in place. Less evolved versions of this couple want to be able to take each other for granted; these two usually don’t leave each other until things get way worse than they should.

I understand where you’re coming from with the “If Wilbur had been a better person” thing, but I would tweak it to if Wilbur had been a different person. In an infinite multiverse Niki might have enjoyed the company of a Three, but in the end a Wilbur is a Wilbur and it was his individual self that lived this scenario.

Having been given a truly excessive amount of time to figure out what exactly I was looking at, I do feel like Wilbur has a foot over the line into genuine NPD territory. The thing about crossing this barrier is that a personality disorder can be managed, but never completely goes away, and it certainly can’t be ignored out of existence. That’s generally why I put a big asterisk next to him being a Three, because something is disrupting the standard patterns, on top of his already fairly unique nature. I can understand him from the perspective of him being a Three, but only so much.

While there were a whole number of factors why Niki didn’t seem well at the tail end of her relationship (mass hate mobs ect.), it’s a very common refrain for people who have had bad experiences with people with NPD to say that they felt burnt out by the end. While it's grim to take her experience as evidence of that, if he contributed to her state by the end that may be why.