#and no not all reylos are racist i know some people ship it for the dynamic

[bookishfeylin]

On finnrey. Tbh I'm not a big SW fan (tho im still planning to watch the original trilogy cuz IK it's amazing), but my fam is and when TFA first released I was forced to go with my dad (don't remember why, just was). By the end a small part of me shipped Finnrey and was certain they'd be a thing. wasn't forced to attend the other 2 films, but from a YTer I learned of crazy Reylo fans and was so confused. Finnrey should be the main couple, not whatever the fuck Reylo is. Vent over lol

Oh, anon you're bringing back memoriesssssssssss

So I got into Star Wars in 2016 exclusively for the sequel trilogy because I heard there was a Black lead. I watched episodes 1-6 in order and LOVED the originals, though I wasn't too impressed with the prequels at the time.

TFA was already out, so after watching it I became a sequel stan waiting eagerly for TLJ, specifically for Finn, and I remember seeing fanart on Pinterest, clicking the link, and being brought to tumblr and discovering this website for the first time years before I actually made an account. I used to browse just for Finn fanart, Rey fanart, fanfiction... it was nice. But I remember there was a bit of Finn hate here and on reddit I didn't understand and some posts about how he was abusive and Kylo Ren was not and was healthier for Rey, and teenage me didn't truly get that at the time. I didn't truly flag it as racism (namely, people jumping to stick Finn with the "dangerous violent Black man" label) but it was big red flag for what was going to happen. TLJ came out, and I was disappointed that Finn was pushed aside for Kylo Ren. I came for the sequels because of the Black lead, not for the white villain. Why should I care about the emotions of a white space neonazi? But things got... so much worse. I remember Reylos calling Finn a coal boy. A dog. A monkey. The actor, John Boyega, spent years being harassed for "getting in the way" of their ship (and he'd already dealt with harassment earlier for having the audacity to be a Black male playing a lead in a big franchise, so this just added to that). Of course, when the actor received harassment in real life and the Reylos started calling the character a monkey, I knew by then it was racism, and I kind of just... stopped poking around on tumblr, Reddit, and even pinterest for sequel trilogy content. One of the people I remember calling out this behavior before I disengaged fully was @diversehighfantasy (check out her blog from the years Star Wars was coming out, from 2015-2019. She talked about the fandom's racism all the time) and she warned that unless fandom positively engaged with Finn more, his character would continue to be minimized as Disney, like all companies, is only after money and will promote whichever characters will bring in the most revenue. But white people (mainly, Reylos) didn't listen. And ofc, Finn was demoted even more in TROS.

Racist Reylos aside, I'd grown disillusioned with the sequel trilogy because, for all the prequel trilogy's weaknesses, it was very strong thematically, and I'd grown to love it for how it complemented the original trilogy. The original trilogy is amazing, but the prequels enhance the originals because the themes of the originals are truly compounded by knowing the full story, the full stakes, and Anakin's fleshed out character as revealed in the prequels. (I also watched The Clone Wars show which was AMAZING, and though I now prefer the prequels to the Clone Wars, the show played a great part in making me love the prequel era worldbuilding and characters and whatnot). The prequels and originals tell a full tale, and so between TLJ's release and TROS I was already feeling... iffy about the sequels walking back on that and the sequels essentially being a poorly made copy of the originals. When TROS came out and the movie completely sidelined Finn, the Black lead we were promised, to shove in a redemption for the white man who'd brutalized him and Rey over and over, and it spat on the face of the entire POINT of the prequels+original trilogy by, uh, having Rey do the thing she does (no spoilers :) ) instead of Anakin having fully completed the job in Return of the Jedi, I fully noped out.

The racists (both the Reylos and the people before them who freaked out over John Boyega having the audacity to be Black and exist in the Star Wars universe) got what they wanted--the white man took center stage, and the "dog", the "coal boy", the "monkey", was sidelined. And the themes of Star Wars and the entire point of the first 6 movies were utterly destroyed, with a variety of retcons and changes in the worldbuilding along the way (and if y'all know me by now you know I DESPISE retcons of any kind).

So for my own sanity, the sequels do not exist. Finn wasn't treated like that. The themes of the first 6 movies weren't walked back on and absolutely trashed as they were. Reylo is not thing, the racists didn't win, and life is good. It was basically an exercise in how I'd treat ACOMAF and all the other books after ACOTAR--they do not exist until I have to honestly critique them.

And frankly I could do it easier here and not for ACOTAR because they weren't technically made by the creator of Star Wars, George Lucas, so the sequels are essentially glorified fanfiction anyway.

Anyway: good on you for avoiding the mess the sequel trilogy ultimately became. I wish I could say the same :)

[olderthannetfic]

i saw this post today where this person was talking abt fandom racism and was pointing out some real issues within my fandom and favorite ship that I too had noticed… but then kept bringing it back to the lack of one particular other ship they liked, when it's like, no that's not the problem, and that ship is unpopular because those characters have zero romantic or sexual chemistry and barely any scenes together. (it was really funny that someone had reblogged this to take their 'lack of seeing this one character in a sexual way in fic miiight be racist' complaint to be like 'i think you're right! we should have more fic about [a long list of different ships involving that character with people they have ACTUAL chemistry with].' it was really funny. ofc op totally missed the point they were making there.) anyway i just feel like way too many useful conversations about this stuff are ruined by people making it about shipping or other really subjective fandom preferences. i get that this is because something like 'number of fics X ship or character has on ao3' is an objective measure, and something like 'level of orientalism in how a lot of people are writing this desi character' is not, but i wish people would realize it tends to alienate more people that it converts. and ime, it's often the people who maybe would most benefit from hearing those criticisms (e.g. are writing unintentionally racist stuff in their works, and are someone who would want to know about that and how to do it differently) who tune it out the second you make it into insulting their shipping preferences.

i mean, there WAS some real racism in the star wars sequels fandom, including among the fanfic/shipping side. not just the shitty dudes harassing kelly marie tran. we saw the really bizarre 'predator' language people directed at john boyega just for making some joke posts on instagram about disliking reylo and its shippers. it was the very classic racist thing where people see something as automatically more threatening when a black man does it. ....but how many people had already tuned all that out because the people most outspoken about the racism in the fandom kept reducing it to 'if you ship reylo over finnrey, or kylux over finnpoe, you're a racist'? it's like a boy who cried wolf thing. if you've shown that you can't uncouple serious discussions and concerns from just being pissy that your otp is not more popular, people are going to see you as someone who can't be taken seriously and then ignore you when you do have a real complaint. it's like how i'm sure that some of stitch's essays are thoughtful and important, but i have no desire to read stuff by someone who is infamous for harassing people just for what they ship. i don't feel like i can take any of that person's judgments about fandoms i'm not in, for instance, seriously.

that's not to say fandom preferences in shipping can't ever be influenced by racism (or other 'isms') but is it ever really *that* specifically that is the problem, or the broader pattern it is part of? and i feel like 'maybe fandom is a little too focused on het and slash ships between two young skinny conventionally attractive white people' is a message more people are open to than 'your specific white M/M or F/M otp is racist'

anyway it reminds me of the stuff i've seen sometimes in academic fandom studies about how you can't really honestly study a fandom where you're deeply mired in its discourse - you need to focus your work on fandoms that you're familiar with but not in that way. and i think that maybe also applies to some of these discussions about fandom racism and misogyny. maybe you're just going to have better takes on something when you're not deeply invested in other unrelated arguments about it, like about which ship is the most popular. like i could not care less about star wars shipping and have zero take in reylo vs. finnrey, so that's why i feel like i could trust my perception that the way a small minority of reylos were posting about john boyega's instagram posts was racist. it didn't matter if he was genuinely being a jerk to them or about their ship. he obviously wasn't a 'predator' and it was pretty telling language for a group of largely white people to use about a black man making fun of their ship on a different social media site.

--

The laying pipe thing was blown so out of proportion, yes. Call it sexist, sure, but it wasn't fucking predatory.

[rootbeergoddess]

I know it’s been a while since I ranted about Reylo but I find so funny is how the Reylos killed their own fandom and now they have nothing.

And to be honest, I don’t think I would have hated Reylo so much had the fans had been decent people. Like if you’re going to ship something problematic, just admit that it is and don’t be surprised if some people don’t like it.

But Reylos had to be extra. They had to be racist as hell as well as annoying. They were so annoying that various people who work for Lucasfilm went private. They spammed Tumblr tags constantly! Also, on Twitter they went around, commenting on any and all Star Wars tweets with #SaveBenSolo.

And now they don’t have anything. There is no way in hell Disney is going to make another movie related to the new trilogy and I doubt they’ll make any other media related to it either. All that work at being the worst part of the Star Wars fandom and they nothing.

[namorthesubmariner]

About Namor x Shuri

I’m not here to rain on anyone’s parade, ship what you ship and tag appropriately is my fandom motto, if there’s something I don’t want to see then it’s up to me to not engage with that.

I am Namor x Shuri neutral, I don’t love or hate it. I am just here to put this post together to address the Fandom and make sure that some information isn’t lost in the chaos that has become the Namor tags these days.

1. Please do not harass the actors or the production crew. Yes, I am speaking to you, I don’t care how valid you think your ship is, I don’t care if you think it should be canon. Don’t harass the cast/crew or other fans. Don’t do what Reylos and MCU fans have done in the past and just a reminder in case people forgot: Reylos have been extremely racist and harassed the actors and other fans all for the sake of their ship. MCU Fans harassed the fans and the actress Emily VanCamp during the Peggy vs Sharon discourse. I’m not here to argue this and I’m not going to provide receipts, the information and past actions are there if you want to go looking for them. Edit to add: I was speaking in general terms of what I know about these discourses, but I do understand there are Reylo fans who are chill and I was not pointing out anyone specifically. I just wanted to share the observations I knew of in a general way.

2. In a Rollingstone interview Tenoch Huerta has stated that the intentions for the Namor and Shuri relationship was not romantic. Please read the full interview, this role and the movie’s themes mean a lot to the actor beyond shipping.

On another note, some viewers felt that there was romantic chemistry between Namor and Shuri when she was in your city. Did you play that romantic chemistry deliberately? I don’t feel it was a romantic touch [between them]. I think it was more a human, intimate touch. I mean in the history of their kingdoms, the history of their people, they share the same root, and the threat comes from the same place for both of them, for the same reason. They both face threats from Western countries like the United States and France in the story, because of vibranium, natural resources. I think they connect in that aspect.

I mean, when you meet someone and you have a good relationship, whether this person is the gender that you prefer or not, you always have this ambiguous relationship. It’s normal. It’s human. So, I think this happened with both of them. If that can evolve into a romantic relationship or not? I don’t know. It wasn’t our intention. It could happen or not.

The beautiful part of this relationship is, it doesn’t need to be romantic to be deep. It doesn’t need to be romantic to be beautiful and bright and intimate. And this connection between a man and a woman in different levels doesn’t need, necessarily, to end in a romantic relationship. And that’s beautiful, you know? Because I hate the romantic love. I think it’s poison. [Laughs] These characters, they create something… I don’t know. It was magical, but not necessarily romantic.

3. in an interview by Newsweek  with film editor Michael P. Shawver this was written:

On Shuri’s Bond with Namor One thing that has stood out amongst fans since the film was released is Shuri's bond with Namor, and whether there is any potential for romance between the pair. When they first meet, Namor urges Shuri and her mother Queen Ramonda to work with him to retrieve the scientist responsible for making a Vibranium detector, Riri, or face the wrath of Talokan. Later, when Shuri goes to Talokan with Riri, the Talokan leader tells the Wakandan princess of his history, and how his people came to establish the underwater nation after being oppressed by Spanish colonizers. Namor shows Shuri his kingdom and she comes to realize how similar Talokan is to Wakanda and this has inspired some fans to believe a romance could be on the cards for them. Shawver explained that idea was something that was discussed during the film's creation process, and was even something they tested, but ultimately Shuri's bond with Namor felt like it should be something different. "I think what's really interesting is there were takes where there was some connection there," Shawver said. "And at one point in an early cut we discussed like, 'Hey, do we leave it there? Do we just put it out there? Let's just add some complexity to the relationship.' "But, then, you've got to watch out for portraying, for example, Shuri flirting to get what she wants as opposed to being a diplomatic leader and becoming the leader that she needs to be, that she'll get to at the end."So what we ultimately focused on was Namor's line where he says 'only the most damaged people can be truly great leaders', and that's planting the seed of the shared trauma that she realizes at the end [of the film]."But that's essentially who they are, they're trying to lead and be a leader of their nations with all this pain, carrying around this heavy heart." The editor explained that Namor "sort of became [a] big brother" to Shuri "because of the similarity she saw when she saw their world and hearing the story." He added that there is "obviously a shared cultural trauma between his people and her people" and "what she lost at the beginning he started to fill that void, and that felt the most genuine to the characters." Even so, that didn't mean that the editors and Coogler felt the pair were completely unsuited to each other, because Shawver said: "They relate, and I think that anytime we can relate to somebody there can be undertones of that kind of thing, you know what I mean?"Referring to how Namor gave Shuri his mother's bracelet in the film, the editor added: "Honestly, we've got to keep ourselves sane and laugh a lot, especially with the tougher moments or the serious moments, so we would always joke that when he gave her that bracelet they were married now, and she didn't know it."There's a whole different movie where she's like, 'wait, what, I'm the queen of Talokan now?'"

However Production Designer Hannah Beachler has already stated that the interview was taken out of context and that there was no romantic scene between them.  (source, source)

Nope. JS never shot a romantic scene with them.

I think Shawver was taken way out of context.  While there was a curiosity & seemingly a mutual experience of loss, never any scenes that would be considered typical "romance" or physical intimacy filmed. Shawver is a good dude. Media recreating something where there's nothing.

MCUDirect has already updated with an edit to include Beachler’s response. Again please read the full Newsweek article because there is more there about Honoring Chadwick and other things about the film.

4. Yes, there is a lot of scenes cut and I am just as excited to see those scenes released as anyone but please do not do what Snyder Fans did and harass the crew with #releasethetalokancut that I have seen pop up recently. Hopefully once the DVD comes out we will get all the extra scenes and commentary.

5. The Mary Sue wrote an article about their views on the Namor x Shuri ship parallels and Namor’s background (source) the reason I’m linking this is because it also talks about how Namor is not Mexican even though the actor is, but the Character of Namor is a Mayan/Mesoamerican Native/Indigenous. Please remember this in your fics/headcanons. Namor would not speak Spanish, he would speak his native Yucatec Mayan.

6. White/Light washing, there are many new Namor x Shuri Fan Arts out there and many of them have lightwashed Namor’s skintone to the point of him being white. Please ask artists to consider what white/light washing does to harm Fans of Color and also erases Characters of Color. There is NO EXCUSE for this, and artists should do better. I’m not here to call out artists but to point out that the issue is there and to be wary of it. The actor Tenoch Huerta is very vocal about how racism/discrimination against darker skinned actors in Mexico has affected him and other actors like him.

7. Fandom Racism. It’s there, it’s all over the tags, it’s in the fics. I am not only speaking about Namor x Shuri but about the Namor x Reader fics that have exploded in the tags: Namor is NOT a Noble Savage or a Rapist or a Pedophile. The incident with DeltasStories (discussed here) has sparked outrage in fandom however it was inevitable with the way fandom and specifically white fandom engages with Men/Characters of Color in Fandom. Men/Characters of Color are highly sexualized and you all should educate yourselves on why writing a Character like MCU!Namor who has dark skin tones in this manner is highly racist. Comic!Namor also is painted with this Exotic Lover Rapist brush when it comes to the NamorSue ship, even though he has never done anything like that and Comic!Namor does not mess with kids (source). So the next time you want to spread Fanon!Namor stop and think about how you are perpetuating racist stereotypes.

Shipping is for the Fans. Not the Cast/Crew/Canon.

It won’t be canon, because we all know Namor kills Ramonda. However it doesn’t mean fans can’t ship, just be sure to be respectful of the characters, other fans, and the cast/crew. And for the Antis please shut up about the Age Gap, you aren’t helping your crusade. If you don’t like Namor x Shuri then block/blacklist. I shouldn’t have to say this over and over but the “Immortal Lover” trope is an old trope in romance media, the whole Vampire/Human romance genre is built on this as are other types of fantasy pairings, there’s so many ships centered around white/non poc character that have this trope, this is nothing new so don’t pull out this outcry because all you are doing is infantilizing Shuri and making Namor out to be a predator. Namor is NOT a sexual predator.

This post will be updated with edits as time goes by when new information comes out.

[userpeggycarter]

your 'won't reblog' list is so funny imagine being a loser who hates fun that much. imagine being such a sad little butt baby you can't interact with anyone who likes things you don't. couldn't be me!

wow. i don't even know where to begin.

it's kinda hilarious that **I** am the sad little butt baby but you're the one having a meltdown in my inbox? being butthurt because a stranger has a "won't reblog" section in their about page????? do you have self awareness??? read that second to last sentence I just typed again. read it. HOW CAN YOU NOT GET IT???? 😱

second of all, the "won't reblog" section is a guideline for tagging me on posts. i don't reblog that stuff for a reason. it's not a DNI. in fact, I do interact with people who reblog and make content about (some of) that stuff listed in my blog because the morals of media consumption are complicated and very personal. some things i draw a very hard line on, some i don't. let me explain each of those "forbidden media" in my blog for you in basic terms like I'm talking to a child (because i am):

Wizarding World: JK Rowling is a TERF, an antisemite and a racist. i thought this one was self-explanatory. it's 2023 ffs

MCU!Maximoffs are white-washed, anti-romani and very antisemitic. google that stuff if you don't know. next question. (i did reblog a MCU Wanda gifset recently btw, but a mutual tagged me on it and i felt awkward ignoring it, but when that happens i tag those posts with #mcu wanda because some people blacklist that tag and for good reason. also it's a subtle way to say I'm not okay with her. i wish these awkward situations didn't happen but they do and i like to support creators, despite your allegations that i don't.

starker is a p*do ship. thorki is inc*st. duh

ngl reylo is not necessarily problematic i just think it's lame lol maybe it shouldn't be on the list because all of that other stuff has serious problems (IN MY OPINION!)

red/orange/color-washed content is racist if done with POC (and it's even a bad look if you're dealing with white people, to a lesser extent ofc)

i don't need to explain johnny depp do i? christ

henry cavill dated a teenager. google it

the last of us's creator is anti palestine and pro genocide.

elizabeth olsen said the G slur on air in the Graham Norton show AFTER he told her it was a slur!!!!!!!!!!! again google it.

gal gadot is also anti palestine. remember the IDF cunt post? iconic

taylor swift: same thing with reylo, i'm just not interested in her, even though she's not exactly a saint either... but honestly i put TS on the list mostly because most of the gifmaker community loves her and i was worried people would tag me on TS content and that would be an uncomfortable situation, because i don't like to ignore tagged posts but also i like to have boundaries/preferences, even though YOU deem them silly or stupid (like if that's your right to do so lmao alexa play toxic by britney spears)

i'm betting money it was the taylor swift thing that pissed you off lol maybe mcu wanda???? both?

stolen/reposted content is also self-explanatory right? or are you that stupid? considering the tantrum i think you are but hope springs eternal i guess...

LAST, but not least, i'm gonna end on a positive note because unlike you I'm not a cunt (derogatory). I'm gonna address your first message here:

listen, i get it. i get frustrated with notes too. the grass is always greener and there's always a bigger fish i guess. you envy me and i envy other creators bigger than me. but we shouldn't do that. first of all, it's not a competition. my "success" (it's tumblr at the end of the day... silly stuff!) is not a threat to you or anyone else. people can reblog my gifs and yours, they don't have to pick a creator. unfortunately, tumblr has been suffering from lack of interaction lately and it's just getting worse. all creators are complaining about it. creators of different sizes and different niches, btw. we complain in private and in public. and what tumblr does in return? text posts complaining about us complaining get 50k notes in a day. it's tough. we shouldn't be treated this way, even though no one is obliged to reblog stuff and we aren't owed notes. but it's natural and fair to feel sad about lack of recognition and complain about. tumblr's lack of engagement is going to kill the website, but that's a conversation to another day.

i want to end with this:

you need to create because you want to create. you need to create because you want to get better at your craft. recognition is good and it's natural to want and feel upset about the lack of it, but it shouldn't kill your creative spirit. social media has poisoned our brains. 50 notes might not sound a lot but imagine 50 people in real life complimenting you. you might be someone's favorite creator. you might be a niche creator who is carrying your community on your back and people in that niche are so grateful for you, even though they don't say that. because unfortunately, hate speaks louder than love. case in point, this hate mail. for every one of you out there, there must be 10 people who like my work. but i never hear from them and that sucks, but i must believe that they exist and be thankful for them. sometimes people will recognize my hard work and i'm very grateful for those moments. they do motivate me, but they aren't the only thing that motivates me. making posts i wanna reblog but won't exist until i make them motivates me. getting better at my craft motivates me. making friends because of my craft motivates me. knowing i'm entertaining people (even though they're very silent about their appreciation of my work) motivates me. tumblr is a social media platform and social media is made by its users. if anyone stopped posting, there wouldn't be anything to do here. my gifset might not change the trajectory of someone's day (sometimes it does!), but it's my drop of water alongside thousands of other drops of water from other users that make this ocean that we all swim in. don't give up. keep making gifs. you will get better at them. people will follow you. you will get more notes. might not be enough followers or enough notes in your opinion, but we shouldn't put a number on our value.

and let me tell you a secret: when your goal is numbers, you're never satisfied. believe me, i learned this lesson. i thought i would be happy with hundreds of followers. then i got hundreds of followers. suddenly they weren't enough, i wanted thousands of followers now. and then i got them. guess what? i still seek validation through numbers (google David Foster Wallace's This is Water btw). but it will never be enough because you are now and i was then looking at the wrong solution to the problem. i need to FEEL enough, not be told by numbers or people that I'm enough. I'm the one that decides that. and i am enough. I'm good, even. hell, I'm great. and in theory, so do you, but god that attitude... it ain't it. it will only cause you pain. and worse, it's causing you to try to cause pain in others. isn't that sad? isn't that shameful? i do say try because newsflash pussycat, it didn't work. i was baffled by your hate (thankfully i don't get a lot of hate around here!), but i wasn't hurt. because I'm not threatened by your perception of me. because it's superficial, childish, hateful, you name it. i know myself. i love myself. in the words of my beloved URL namesake, i know my value. do you know yours? it doesn't seem like you do. and that type of attitude only lessens your value, babe. this is not getting you anywhere in tumblr or worse, in life.

this would be the moment in which i would wish you the best, but you know what? fuck you. i hope you get no notes until eternity. but in case an innocent person is reading this and is also battling with their self-worth due to tumblr notes: i wish you the best. don't give up.

[onewomancitadel]

I also heard recently that apparently Reylos made up all of their harrassment as a cover for their racism in not shipping Finn/Rey, and to be perfectly honest with you I think racism is not a fandom-specific issue but kind of a social issue where you aren't insulated from it based on what you do or don't ship? And shipping isn't political activism? I wouldn't be granted rhetorical immunity if I did, in fact, ship Finn/Rey, because I could equally be responsible for perpetuating racism in writing their dynamic (and in addition to that, romantic relationships are not free of sexism or racism; how does this immunity hold coherently at all?) and in fact, I don't like Finn/Rey because I don't like enjoy how it services their characters. If Boyega were cast as the main villain we'd be having a different conversation.

If you wanted to reckon specifically with the ST's racism, we can start with TFA where TFA refuses to expand upon Finn's psychological evolution and turns him into a sanitation worker as a fucking dramatic punchline at the end of the film, or is unceremoniously knocked out by Kylo so he can't do anything narratively? Or just being there for bathos-esque quips? No matter what you say about TLJ, Finn's epic confrontation with Phasma and the potential of a Stormtrooper rebellion is there, and instead in TROS it's turned into... some people are just born right and others deserve to be Stormtroopers. *shrug*

That is not a fucking Reylo problem. That is, in the first place, teasing Finn as the 'main' character and then doing a reversal with Rey, and choosing to focus a new Star Wars series on the Skywalkers again. A Black Jedi with his own original story not contingent upon white legacy characters could've worked but by design it was not made so, and then they erased his character from Chinese marketing anyway. That should tell you were D/isney's priorities lie. If they actually had any gumption that is what they would've done following the ST to mop up what they did with Finn and actually got onboard original storytellers who were not looking to rehash nostalgiabait.

I'm particularly sore about this because I don't enjoy the implication that racism is a fandom-specific issue or that fandom is where the conversation starts and ends, or not that on some level these commercial productions with millions of dollars behind them influence the conversation. Or that there is a competition of socially-minded interests. Or that if we got rid of the Bad Shipping fandoms we would only have the Good Ones left with no problems forever. That's not how it works.

But inventing harrassment is an interesting accusation. We're just outright accusing each other of making up our experiences now? We're allowed to do that? I've never been 'in' the mainstream Reylo fandom enough and if there were evidence of Reylos behaving badly or, in the case of this context, being racist, I'd take it seriously as much as I can and challenge it, but I'm not sure what other authority I do have in intercommunity politics. Fandom doesn't work like that. There is only so much you can do. But accusing us of making up our experiences when I know that I personally keep to myself because of it is a new one.

I don't want to tell you the things I've seen or experienced myself in the Reylo fandom. Sure, the ceaseless crossfandom stuff is bullshit, but anti-Reylos are probably people I wouldn't get along with anyway and people can draw boundaries as they see fit. There are a bunch of ships and fandoms I don't want much to do with. I don't even think that anti-Reylos themselves are uniquely -ist in whatever given way; they probably just enjoy the opportunity to be sexist or racist or anti-Semitic against someone they think deserves it (and it always comes out when the opponent is sufficiently Of the Wrong Sort).

I think it is extremely dangerous to treat activism as a performative endeavour where I ship the right ships and interact with the text in the way I have been mandated to. Because it doesn't actually insulate me from racist behaviour or beliefs. I think it is true that there are times this notably happens, but equally, is shipping Finn/Poe alongside Rey/Kylo a way to mitigate this? How do we square it out?

I think this conversation with Reylo is probably over. Reylo's online legacy is always going to be mixed at best. But I don't think the anti-racist conversation begins or ends with it.

[mermaidsirennikita]

I mean yeah it all comes back to her being a reylo, the way people still talk about them shocks me. Idk if i've ever seen shippers from such a mainstream popular ship get treated this way when honestly....reylo isn't even that problematic. I would argue something like darklina is more problematic and those shippers don't get 1/3 of the shit reylos get. Hell I could name you other more problematic ships where the shippers don't get nearly as much hate as reylos.

Well, to be very fair a lot of reylos said a lot of out of pocket, racist (and specifically antiblack) shit about John Boyega and Finn. I don't want to downplay the shit John Boyega went through making those movies.

And in turn, a lot of finnreys said some really fucked up, racist (specifically anti-Asian) shit about Kelly Marie Tran and Rose... and I do think that gets downplayed a LOT. Like, if we're going to talk about racist fandom antics in SW, and there are a lot of them, then let's talk about all of it. Obviously, all of this goes beyond shipping, but the interesting phenomenon that did happen with the reylo stuff is that because they didn't want Rey with Finn, many of them did support Finnrose (and by the way, lol--I'm not into Finnrey because in general I don't like Rey outside of TLJ and I frankly though Finn deserved better on every level, and I wouldn't consider myself a Reylo, but I AM into Finnrose, and to a lesser extent Finnpoe). For some, I do think that was a "get Finn out of Rey's path" thing, for sure--but also, setting Finn up with a cool pretty girl to get him away from Rey is... not the worst thing lol. And I would also say that many did seem to genuinely like that ship, and a lot of the reylo fic authors I saw back in the day used to write some good Finnrose shit.

(Also: Roselo? Let's get into it. I would kill for Rian to cast Adam and Kelly in a Benoit Blanc movie, the chances that Adam would do it are MIDDLING but still.)

I think the main reason why the reylo thing got much bigger, tbh, is that it's Star Wars. Darklina is in theory more problematic (though to me it's very much a draw because while I personally do not find Kylo Ren as like, threatening as the Darkling, he's still a prominent cog in a dictatorial fascist-aligned regime and he did kill a lot of innocent people, so, you know, fair) but S&B is NOTHING compared to SW. I think in general shippers are loathed by a lot of old school SW die-hards because Shipping = Kissing and Kissing is Gross, and Bad People Bad, except for Vader because Vader Cool. They make exceptions for Han and Leia because they still jerk it to Leia to this day and it's a part of the old lore, and a lot of them just want to be Han Solo in a way I don't think a lot of them wanted to be Kylo Ren.

And then you combine that with the morality police who really just like. Didn't like reylo for whatever reason, but decided to take on the idea that it's HORRRRRIIIIIBLEEEE to ship a bad guy with someone (when like--I personally cannot STAND Anidala, but you would have no SW if a bad guy hadn't fucked someone back in the day... tepidly, I imagine, but it happened). The idea of using moral righteousness to justify your ship has always been a thing, right? (If we're keeping it real here: while I do think that a lot of reylo antis were genuinely concerned about racism with that ship, I also think that many of the white antis.... were only concerned with racism when it suited them. I mean, where were they when Kelly was getting death threats? Care about it for everyone, you know?) But I think it became a much bigger thing when it was reylo.

Then in turn, the reylos reacted by becoming more cultlike, because that's what happens when you vilify people for wanting to ship something. And they became wackier, and the lore became more kNOWN. Like, again--I don't personally ship reylo. I find the dynamic compelling in TLJ; I think Adam and Daisy have great chemistry in that movie; I think that he and Rian pulled her best work in the trilogy out of her; and I think that that movie is the only one where Rey feels like an actual human being, versus a girlboss cypher. She's human, she idolizes Luke and then realizes he's only human, she experiences disappointment, she experiences DOUBT about morality, she is, I believe, genuinely pretty horny for Kylo Ren in that movie (imo, Rey probably has like, zero sexual experience lol, but I also doubt that he has much either), and the idea of her wanting to be SOMETHING only to find out she's NOT THAT is really interesting. I find the idea of her being tempted to become his Dark Empress or whatever, and the idea of him being both an incredibly weird, dark, amoral person who's all about assuaging his own Feelings because mommy and daddy didn't love him the way he wanted them to... and someone who else wants this girl to bounce on it as his Dark Empress.... really interests me.

I didn't want to see them have babies. I didn't want to see them be happily ever after. I wanted to see her kill him while kissing him or something. Which I don't think was what a lot of reylos wanted, right? So it kind of made that ship inaccessible to me, and I imagine a lot of people who might've otherwise been into it. And I think things like "grey force babies" or whatever naturally made it seem more ridic, which of course happens with any ship (BOATBABY.......) but the size of the fandom and the ship made it seem bigger.

But because that ship was so archetypal (big bad man, girl onto which you could project whatever you wanted because she has like zero personality in 2/3 movies) it was easier for allll of these fic writers to do whatever they wanted with the dynamic, to pass the fic around, to do weird shit with it. And I think that tends to happen with bad/good ships. The fic writers have something very iconic to cling to, and they can do more with it, and therefore the fic is better, and that makes the ship bigger. The ship evolves into the fanon version, and then everyone who hates it hates it more because that ship is getting what they want. It reminds me of Darklina, Dramione (and for the record Dramione is something like... Go with God, but I do nOT. GET. THE DRAMIONE RENAISSANCE LOL.), Haladriel. Because reylo was again, so big though, there were more writers and more types of fic and it just got More More More.

So yeah, I think it's all kind of a snake eating its own tail thing. And now everyone who hated reylo anyway hates it even more because of all these reylo authors getting book deals, and often having solid success (or better). You can make a lot of critiques about why that's happening with a white ship versus a ship featuring poc, but that's beyond reylo and gets into fandom racism and racism in publishing AT LARGE. It's a bigger thing than just "the reylos did this".

But yeah, I personally don't really find Reylo all that shocking or perverse a ship. I've shipped worse lol. I just think there are a lot of really complicated things that have less to do with the SHIP than the shipping culture. Some of those things are super valid. However, I also think that this narrative occurred wherein it was like "the only toxic ones are the reylos" and... Yeah dude, there were plenty of toxic reylos. However... The Kelly Marie Tran of it all is where I really start getting bugged, because what happened to her and her character was one of the grossest things that happened in that franchise, and LET US BE REAL, the driving force behind that was not the reylos. (Nor do I want to imply that it was all finnreys--a lot of the SW fandom in general is super fucked re: basically any people of color in prominent roles.)

[baba-fett]

13, 19, 24 👀

🔥 choose violence ask game 🔥

13. worst blorboficiation

tbh this is hard to judge because I know we all cling to characters in different ways. But some of the stuff I see for Dogma or Crosshair i'm just like...did we see the same character????

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

....FINE I ADMIT IT I WAS A REYLO. I can't HELP IT. Adam Driver as Kylo Ren just was hot!!!

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

Oof I mean I feel like there's a lot of cyclical discourse that just brings up the same fights every couple of months. One thing that really showed a toxic side that I wasn't expecting to be that bad was the idea of love interests being given to Rex or any of the Bad Batch, and particularly the introduction of Phee x Tech. becasue MAN that showed the ugly side of some people. I'm not talking about people who were like "hey this felt rushed" i'm talking about how some people had full MELTDOWNS and there were a bunch of racist comments over a ship in an animated children show. Even when there were rumours of something happening with Rex, I saw some people fully upset as if it would ruin their real life. Joking about your fics/ocs canon being messed up is one thing, but to be DISTRAUGHT over just the idea that your fictional crush might be getting a love interest??? At that point you need to step back, take a breath, and think about what truly matters.

[lesbianrobin]

do you have any star wars opinion u would like to share omg i love hearing ur stranger things opinions and you are so right about them i think it’d be fun to hear your star wars ones. even if you’re not really into star wars like it’d still be funny i think.

+ also my sister has a heart-shaped mini waffle maker and it’s so cute😭🫶🏻 we used to have a waffle maker that got a full clover like 4 hearts that we would separate when we were little. fun tangent to get into but my mom has a Thing for bakery apparel she literally bought so many waffle makers over the course of her life. like i’m saying this for the years i can remember we’ve got at least 6 “new” ones.

(also last thing i promise just wanted to let you know on your ask box title is too long on mobile you can only see the beginning and end with suspension dots in the middle. like you can guess what it says but yeah😭)

ok first of all im so sorry for taking so long but anyway HI i fixed my ask box title thank you for letting me know <3 and omg i have so many star wars opinions idk where to start so i'll just drop some random ones. SPOILERS FOR LIKE THE WHOLE STAR WARS FRANCHISE HERE WARNING.

basically every modern use of luke skywalker in star wars is ooc as fuck. like the luke of the original trilogy just straight up is not the same guy as the luke of the sequel trilogy or the mandalorian. he got bodysnatched at some point.

the prequels are bad like genuinely all three of them are so bad not only as star wars movies but as films in general. if you still enjoy them like sure have fun yknow i liked parts of them but when people try to argue that they're Good Actually that is insane.

rogue one is the best star wars movie outside of the original trilogy. like no contest. it doesn't try to rely on nostalgia or cgi or obvious parallels to the og trilogy, it just tells a story!! this is gonna sound silly but it's good because it's like. an actual movie. the characters of rogue one (ignoring andor which occurred after the fact for reasons that i cannot explain) are generally confined to rogue one and die at the end, meaning that the film was forced to tell a complete story and get the audience emotionally invested enough for the film's ending to feel significant and powerful. which is what a new hope did. because it had to be a good movie in order for there to be more movies in order to make star wars a thing. yknow. anyway.

the force awakens is actually pretty solid as the intended foundation for a new trilogy with new lovable characters and an inspirational story etc but after that kylo ren's whole existence just derailed the sequels as a whole and luke's characterization was so painful i just couldn't stand it. finn should have been the lead of the new trilogy with rey and poe as his leia and han but well. it was probably racism. like i'm not involved personally idk exactly what went down but i think people were just racist.

poe suddenly gaining a shady backstory that runs counter to the everything about him in the force awakens? also probably racist.

also everyone that wants to fuck kylo ren is going to hell no exceptions. sorry to my ex roommate carrie i love her but she's going down. also everyone who ships reylo or reads those tiktok books that are just reylo fic with the names changed? they're going to superhell.

the mandalorian is incredibly competent and entertaining as a show like separate from star wars as a franchise and i think the show is at its best when its engagement with existing characters like luke and ahsoka is extremely limited. not everything has to be about the skywalkers. like star wars is about a whole Galaxy and yet sometimes it feels like it's about a single fucking neighborhood the way the same bitches keep popping up everywhere across all media.

on that note i adore star wars jedi: fallen order and i think one of its greatest strengths is its use of original characters and avoidance of existing ones. like i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure the only character in fallen order that we knew Before fallen order was darth vader and i think that works really well! you go the whole game encountering new villains and allies and planets and stories and then suddenly it's like Oh Holy Shit That's Darth Fucking Vader. it's scary!! it's shocking!!! it's exciting and satisfying!!!! i just love that game so much sorry. cal kestis is my baby and i'm amped about jedi: survivor but i'm also so scared they will ruin him somehow. everybody please pray for my boy.

i'm gonna stop now but i think a lot of my opinions just kinda boil down to like. star wars should not be the mcu. i'm not against spinoffs entirely, i Adore the mandalorian and jedi: fallen order even more than i like the original trilogy, but things really don't need to overlap so much! using cgi carrie fisher for a single scene in rogue one made sense. using cgi luke skywalker for multiple episodes in the mandalorian is just dumb. the way they literally resolved the main plotline of the mandalorian in the boba fett show is ridiculous. star wars is fun and exciting and inspiring and disney sucks and i just hope that the mcu model becomes financially detrimental to them somehow and they pull it back soon.

[opinated-user]

About Lily’s talk on toh fandom racism. I guess Lily doesn't understand the root of the problem. People like white characters more because they have more dimension not because of race. Compare Amity's and Hunter's abusive families, their constant struggles and how many viewers can relate to it, to Luz who has... nice mom? And was bullyied but kinda wasn't we've never seen it? That's it. She's generic quirky girl. Her dad's death pops out literally one time and it's never mentioned after. Gus is boring, and Willow had potential but was forgotten. There's just so little to work with. Not even gonna talk about Eda and her family issues and parallels to chronic illness. So the main question is it truly wise to blame the fandom when the creators themselves don't give POC characters interesting conflicts, backgrounds or just some screen time ? ;)

i disagree on various points with you, anon, but i'll try to keep it as brief as possible: 1. the idea that abusive families=more relatable is inherently flawed by itself. if all you see when looking at luz noceda is a "generic quirky girl", that's is your opinion, but there's more to her than that, even more that what LO gives her credit for when she just wants her to be happy sapphic with no further issues. many kids can and do relate to her struggling to fit in, being the child of immigrants, living without one of their parents, wanting to scape to another world where she wouldn't be so different, but the show takes it one step further and tells us directly that life can't be solved as easy as that, that even if life is boring, mundane and not magical we still have to live with it. i could go on about how compelling i found the arc of her reconnecting with her mom only to realize what many children have to find out the hard way sooner or later: that her actions have consequences and those consequences can hurt people, just like it hurt her mom. but if you really want more insight into luz as a character, there are plenty of videos on youtube and i'm sure posts that could explained it better than i could. the same could be said about Willow slowly finding her way to grow from the shy girl of the first season into a brave leader or gus struggling with the pressure of being a child prodigy. LO is right that both of them could have been given more of a spotlight and actually deserved it because there is a lot of potential for the both of them, but she's wrong when she doesn't blame Disney for it and instead makes it the sole fault of the creator. 2. LO's actually right that there is racism in fandom... but not because hunter exist or teenage girls likes him, but because racism exist everywhere. it's a systematic issue that everyone is exposed to and can manifest in million different and insidious ways that sometimes aren't as easy as who loves more what character. she's wrong that everyone who likes hunter must do it for racist reasons, just like she was also wrong that people only liked reylo because racism. her own friend Carrousel ships huntlow herself so i assume that she must like hunter on some capacity. but as we have discussed before on this blog, LO doesn't know how to talk about systematic issues nor cares to. what she wants is to point fingers at someone and nothing else, be it to the creator that was treated unfairly by her employer but it's still her fault somehow, to the teenage girls having a crush on a fictional boy or any other group of people/individuals that she can point as the problem, one that we just need to get rid of to have everything turn out alright. all the while never even proposing a real solution herself. more people liking gus or skara won't solve racism in fandom. she putting down hunter constantly at every opportunity she has won't solve racism in fandom. it's doubtful that fandom even can solve the problem of it's own racism at all. but we do have alternatives that BIPOC fans have been trying out for years: blacktober, race bending, challenges, zines, hashtags, give more attention to POC creators, works of POC and spread the word about any of this initatives so more people can join in. LO already talks about how she never reads fanfiction (unless it's about Sylvannas, her favourite white undead character), she doesn't care about theories and it seems she only shares fanart she just happened to come across so of course she either doesn't know about any of them or doesn't care. she barely is on fandom for anything else that enjoy underage sapphic cute couples, there is no real motivation for her there. talking about how other people should like more POC characters more than white ones will never be enough. appreciating POC characters (only black in the case of LO) without dragging a white one too could be a fine start but it's just that if you don't then procede to try to give the spotlight to the actual real POC in fandom that have been ignored, when not harassed and mistreated because of not being white.

[tinkkles]

Bestie whats R*oyl (idk if I got that right I'm sure you know) cause I saw you getting attacked and I can't find what about??? Can you tell me what happened cause I'm so lost.

Reylo is the ship name for rey & kylo ren from the star wars sequel trilogy. Lots of people don't like it bc it's terribly written, and the writers have said they had no cohesive plan for the sequel trilogy so it was very unplanned and disorganized and Kylo spent half the movies literally torturing and emotionally abusing Rey and never really went through a redemption arc or sought her forgiveness at all he just like decided to kill some bad guys and then they kissed and he died. I love media!!

But the people that do like it are the most unhinged, hyperbolic, self-victimizing weirdos on the planet who insist they've done nothing wrong and "Let People Enjoy Things" etc., even though they will rabidly attack anybody who gives valid reasons why the ship sucks, including literal John Boyega and Daisy Ridley, stars of the sequel trilogy. And of course, since it was kind of hinted that John Boyega's character would be Rey's love interest in the first movie and then dropped (because again, unplanned and disorganized), their uhhhh "reactions" to "antis" is often steeped in racism directed at John Boyega's character Finn.

Anyways, one of the destiny writers (who is also the one who writes eris calling drifter "rat" despite knowing at this point that it has a history of being an anti-asian slur) is a self-professed Reylo and was tweeting yesterday about how a Reylo fanfiction that got published as a book is now also getting adapted into a movie in that self-victimizing Reylo way so I, foolishly, got annoyed and invoked the name Reylo in a negative light and it I guess ended up in the Reylo tag somehow despite me not tagging it as such? Thank u tumbly

Here's a good article :

[olderthannetfic]

I remember all the handwringing over Reylo, how it would teach young girls that abuse was okay, how it would lead them to accept being mistreated, how liking him was as bad as a girl who thirsts over school shooters, etc. And yet look! Society has yet to become pro-abuse and the fans of the pairing who identify as women have not been murdered by their romantic partners en masse.

But despite this open contempt for the pairing, people also convinced themselves the only reason you could ship Kylo/any guy was hatred of women and not, y'know, trying to avoid the obsessed haters who had devoted anti-Reylo blogs for 5+ years. Also it was totally unhealthy of you to ship Kylo with anyone, said people with a dedicated blog where they discussed their hatred of a fictional man for half a decade, and you should get therapy for your sickness.

My personal least favorite moment of the the new trilogy fandom's plague of antis was them attacking a friend of mine. See, if you don't ship Finnrey, you're an anti-black racist (unless you ship Finnpoe in which case you are of course a misogynist fetishizing Poe, a space Latine). No one told my friend this, so she very obliviously drew some Finnlo, and all hell broke lose. People said it was like shipping a slave with a Nazi, that it demonstrated the dehumanization of black men by fandom, that it was akin to zoophilia since Kylo owned Finn, etc. It hit a peak of ridiculousness when someone self-harmed and sent my friend video of them doing so to show her how 'wrong' it was to ship the two.

My friend responded by contacting the parents of the person who self-harmed. Cue antis saying she was an adult harassing a minor. You know, because if one person is putting cigarettes out on themselves to spite someone on the internet and another person is saying "that's concerning", the latter is in the wrong, obviously.

I'm not even in this fandom but I support Reylo and Finnlo out of sheer spite at this point because I hated the manipulation and massive freakouts from the Finnrey crowd so much.

Sometimes people are going to ship something that's not your OTP and that's okay. It's not worth burning your skin off for.

--

Kylo is ew, but supposed Finn fans who can't even see that Finn also had an interesting potential connection with Kylo in that first film are idiots.

[jemgirl86]

Reylo is a racist ship. Namor/Shuri is problematic because of the [redacted] scene but it isn't a racist ship, there's no comparison between the 2.

Alrighty… I mean, what do you want me to say to this? I don’t think that anon or my friend were saying that the Namor/Shuri ship is exactly the same as the Reylo ship, and that that’s why the fans of both are comparable. We all know Reylo fans are often racist… In other news, water is wet lol.

I think their point is that both ships are nonsensical to them because in both cases Namor & Kylo did some off the wall unforgivable shit so it’s weird to ship them with Shuri and Rey, respectively.

Anywho, ain’t nobody stopping y’all from shipping them, just like nobody can stop me from shipping what I ship. Shoot, one of my ships would make people blink too lol, but Namor/Shuri just ain’t my cup of tea… literally all I said in my original post was that I thought it was wild to ship them dassit, and that’s okay 🤷🏾‍♀️

[mandaloriangf]

I know you don’t watch stranger things BUT I do notice with Reylos they tend to get attracted to the weird and questionable ships for other medias/fandoms

So I noticed that 1) a lot of them like Billy (racist misogynist abuser) and woobify him and 2) ship a dead 17 year old cheerleader with a 20 year old AND argue with people (mostly minors who bring up a concern) calling them antis and misogynists and biphobia (20 year old is potentially queer coded which I know… it’s a whole i won’t get into lmfao) and blame “puritanical” shit (whenever I see someone called a puritan or puritanical, I know it’s about to be some bs). Idk about the actress of said cheerleader being a reylo but she does ship said ship (on every single platform even on tumblr, practically humoring the Stan’s/shippers and siccing them on “haters”)

But it’s murky bc the ages of the 2 characters aren’t 100% confirmed but no matter the girl is a minor and the guy is gotta be at least 19, more likely 20. So with all the weirdness and nasty behavior it does NOT surprise me so many are reylos

that's about chrissy and eddie right? yeah it's weird but im not surprised they'd be into that (especially when steve is an adult and right there). and honestly anyone who still stans billy at this point is just openly racist, like caleb has even said the dude was a racist. ntm max was clearly severely traumatized by the abuse she had to face from billy.

[alligatorjesie]

That rant was sure something. Anyhow, Happy BHM. In honor of uplifting Black voices, here’s a video made by a black person breaking down that article you shared somewhere in that whatever it was, and how white feminism took over the entire tone to discredit poc https://youtu.be/avZ_NC4TrQA

Not sharing this to fuel reylo discourse or anything. This person’s video is pretty neutral on that. Just wanted to point out that your bias, racial or not, can still cloud your judgement to the point of gaslighting poc’s experiences. Yes it was indeed a pain to read. Mainly for women of color who are once again reminded how fandoms despise our presence

Alright, I'm gonna stop you right there because the shit you're saying is exactly the point I'm trying to get across here.

I watched the whole video and nowhere at any point does she 'disprove' anything in the article.

What I posted is still true, an alt-right user by the name of Crogman made a sock puppet account on twitter he then used to harass actors from Star Wars.

Nothing about that part of the article was a lie and I don't need to watch a 22 minute long rant from some rando on youtube to tell me the information in the article is actually correct.

The Author did her fucking homework.

Hell for the most part I totally agree with the youtuber on pretty much every point she makes. Being black in fandom has to suck complete and total cock and balls because not only are they dealing with harassment for simply being black in fandom but doubly so for many of them in the reylo fandom where they're often told they're racist for enjoying it.

That shit has to be quite wearing on the nerves. I'm not black and in fandom but I am female in fandom and if the amount of harassment I get, which is considerable, is double the amount a black person gets then they have every right to be absolutely fucking furious.

She is obviously upset about the line of 'Finnreys really seem to have it out for reylos' but I don't recall in the article where the author mentions that finnreys are overwhelmingly black, that's just a conclusion the youtuber jumped to all on her own.

The author of the article ain't wrong about the finnreys hating reylos tho.

For context, this was a screengrab of the 'anti-finnrey' tag on tumblr which you would think would be full of reylos who hate finnrey but instead is ironically full of finnreys calling reylos racist and the only reylos who showed up were me, commenting on how odd it is that so many anti reylos seem to be finnreys and that's kinda weird and one other reylo who adds the tag for blocking because they get harassed by so many finnreys.

I get it, some finnreys are upset that reylo became canon in Star Wars, but harassing members of the reylo fandom isn't going to fix the problem they're having.

The reylos aren't racist for noticing and enjoying a ship that was telegraphed very early on in the movies.

No one in the the star wars fandom is demanding you ship reylo.

Ship what the fuck you want mate.

Honestly considering the end of EP9 I don't fucking know how finnreys could still be upset at reylos.

The finnrey ship is just as likely to become canon as reylo was, which thus far is one instance where they held hands and a single PG smooch.

Rey is still very fucking alive and Ben is pretty fucking dead so who fucking knows, assuming Disney can gather the testicular fortitude to continue telling stories in the sequel trilogy timeline we could very likely get a finnrey scenario play out fully as canon but I'll tell you one thing for fucking sure;

I as a reylo ain't gonna go onto the finnrey tag and blast them for it.

I'm not going to stop finnreys from shipping Finn and Rey. I'm just asking them to get the fuck out of the reylo tag about it.

Just because some people on the internet preferred the romantic pairing of Ben and Rey vs Finn and Rey doesn't automatically mean they racist.

It's Just A Ship.

Shipping isn't activism.

Reylos actually seam to quite like Finn the character or else they wouldn't overwhelmingly write him into their fanfictions. Over Half of the reylos fics I have up on my computer right now have Finn as a character in them.

Someone who hates Finn wouldn't bother doing that.

Hell, I'm making a comic right now where some scenes have over 7 characters in a single panel and I can tell you right fucking now I would not put the effort into drawing the character if I disliked them.

The effort shows care.

What I have seen is a lot of finnreys who make posts zeroing in on reylos to harass them or worse yet, just simply tell them to go die

Shipping isn't activism.

I don't make these posts because I feel oppression for being a reylo. I make these posts because there are a lot of people on this website that say some pretty off the fucking wall bonkers shit about the people in this fandom and other fandoms with zero proof with only their misguided hateful opinions to go on and they've successfully done nothing else but make being in fandom For Everyone Of Every Race And Creed a living hell.

They could be black, they could be white, they could be asian, they could be russian, they could be blue aliens from fucking Uranus. I don't give a good goddamn. What I do care about is why the fuck they're trolling around tags and fandoms they hate to harass the members in it.

There are black reylos. There are white finnreys. Race ain't got fucking dick all to do with the ship and the harassment it sees.

Because

Shipping isn't activism.

You don't have to interact with fandoms you dislike.

Don't like reylo? Then don't go into reylo tags and be a fucking dick. Don't dedicate 7 years of your life harassing EVERYONE in this fandom because you dislike the ship for whatever the fuck reason.

If you're an Anti, and you've been an Anti harassing members of a fandom for over 7 years, you're the fucking problem in fandom, not the fandom.

We as members of any fandom seeing this level of vitriol so often need to stand up and tell these people they're not fucking welcome and they need to fucking leave. There is a lot of us compared to the antis and alt-right assholes who tell us day after day we can't enjoy the ship we like because it's gross to them.

Put them on full fucking blast. I want to know who the fuck these assholes are and everyone should be fully aware of who is causing shit in their respective fandoms.

That shit ain't activism, that's the most fucking basic decency you should be providing in your own fandom to make sure your fandom isn't a fucking cesspool of hate and harassment.



How is any part of that anti-black? How is standing up for yourself and your community racist?

People of color have everything to gain if we all start telling the people who harass members of any fandom to hit fucking bricks.

[redrascal1]

It's funny but I was looking back at the JCF...and at the beginning, there didn't seem to be the vitriolic Kylo/Kylo stans hatred that there is now.

I've also noticed that many of the more reasonable and fair posters have disappeared. One popped up on the Star Wars Cantina forums, and passed me a few interesting titbits that I was unaware of.

It seems that the JCF has been hijacked by some pretty unpleasant people.....many, I'm sorry to say, are Finn/Rey fans. I have seen many Finn/Rey fans posting, all of whom seem pretty decent people, but the type that frequent the JCF are a different breed. Rather than respecting people's right to 'ship' who they choose, they have either driven both reylos and Kylo stans off the boards, or banned them - I was banned because I happened to mention Ben in a Finn thread, yet the opposite has happened so many times I've lost count, with no repercussions.

At other times, this wouldn't have bothered me...people are people. But there are those that are levelling some pretty nasty accusations at reylos and Kylo stans. 'We are racist - Finn should have been Rey's lover, not Ben.'

'We support toxic relationships, and the abuse of women.'

'We are disrespecting John Boyega. He was supposed to be Black male lead'.

This isn't funny. To call people racist, toxic, and abusive because of a FICTIONAL 'ship' is not just unfair, it is downright insulting. And it is disturbing. These trolls are professing to know us purely because of our feelings for a fantasy character. My late aunt was possibly Heathcliff's number one fan, but no way did she support the abuse of women....her own grandmother was abused by her husband, and her daughter, mother of my mum and aunt, taught her sons to respect women and her daughters to be strong and have a sense of self worth - supported by their father. My parents had a wonderful marriage based on mutual love and respect. As an asexual woman, I am permanently single, but I love men.

The sad fact is, TROS itself is a film that I found to be both racist AND sexist. Rose, played by an Asian American actress, was quietly erased ....and the Black male character spent the entire film fawning over the White female lead. Rey was shown to be a brute who repeatedly attacked Kylo, even when he was unarmed - and then almost killed him (but it's ok, she's a girl and we've given her non canon magic healing powers). Most of all, where Luke defeated Palpatine with the power of love, Rey destroyed him with her hate. TROS puts across so many disturbing and unpleasant messages it actually creeps me out.

Yet it proudly remains canon while TLJ.....the only one of the ST films to remain faithful to the spirit of hope and forgiveness that is Star Wars....is ignored. I am genuinely saddened and worried at what Disney has become. They should never have come within an arm's length of Lucas's wonderful creation.