#anti lilith clawthorne

[drachenfalter]

Just had a disturbing thought.

The reason that Lilith Clawthorne is accepted back into society so easily after everything is that her victims* usually didn't survive.

(*victim meaning the people most hurt by Lilith's actions as a member and eventual leader of the Emperor's coven. Almost exclusively so called "wild witches", like the people we see at the beginning of Agony of a witch.) (Also, Eda is the exception to that rule, but only because she's Lilith's sister. We have every indication that Lilith did not treat any other wild witch like that.)

[azural83]

If the writers really thought that lilith,who willingly cursed her little sister which accidentally turned out to be a forever thing that caused her to become an outcast in her own hometown and lost relationships with the people she loved because of it and had to suffer on a daily basis while lilith openly mocked her for something she caused on the first place, could be redeemed in one episode; then I have no words

Lilith ruined eda's life on so many levels and she's never called out for it,at least in s2. Eda's mental health was affected so badly to the point she believed that nobody would care if she died. Why? Because of the pain her loved ones were put through because of the curse. She fully blames herself for things that weren't her fault while lilith whines about her mother not paying enough attention to her because she was too obsessed with helping eda.

Eda went through so much,she isolated herself from everyone for years yet...held no grudge against lilith. Lilith caused so much harm to the people around her but we never saw her earn their forgiveness after season one's finale,which apparently seems to be a decent redemption arc to writers

[hikaaa-bi]

i find it funny how people praise the owl house for breaking the trend of redeeming the villain when the show instead took the laziest path with dealing with their villain. i mean, i get it. not all villains need to be redeemed and sometimes, it's just fine to kill them off or defeat them. no character is irredeemable, but sometimes the point is that people refuse to change.

but what they did with belos was just lazy. he didn't need to be redeemed, sure, but his ending was way too anti-climactic. he was such a complex character to just be labelled as Pure Evil™ and killed off at the end. he didn't need to be redeemed, but he at least deserved to be acknowledged as the three-dimensional complex character that he is. he wasn't just a disney-esque villain who did everything for power and had no depth to his personality. he was a symbol of religious trauma and how it affects people. he was a horrible person but also a sympathetic one, because i can only imagine how harmful growing up in the puritan era would have been.

like i said before, the show being cancelled is not an excuse. i was so excited to see all the religious and spiritual themes in belos's past, and all the theories that fans were coming up with. hell, some fans did a better job of representing belos than the show ever did. i just feel like it was a whole bag of lost potential. belos could have been one of the most insanely complex and well-written villains but the creators of the owl house wants to impress its fans, so they pull a "haha we're not like other shows because we can't sympathize with the villain!" newsflash: you don't need to redeem the villain in order to portray them as sympathetic. azula from avatar and simon from infinity train are good examples of sympathetic villains/antagonists who don't get redeemed.

it's even more ridiculous considering how rushed and badly written lilith's arc was, even though she cursed her sister, tried to kill a literal child, and almost got her sister turned to stone. you'd think if the show despises redemptions so much, they wouldn't give lilith a lazy and rushed redemption arc like that, only to render her useless for the rest of the show.

[punkeropercyjackson]

I'm an 'prefers gay cartoons over adult gay media' type of gay but purely because most of the lgbt kids shows i'm into have at worst have a bit of good faith rep that wasn't written well meanwhile as i'm discovering the older kinds of queer media i find out more and more that they weren't actual good gay shit and just like.Blatant transmisogyny that gets looked over despite being unerasable from the narrative/characters because people don't want to consider trans womens feelings and safety even though they're the most important part of our community if it benefits them personally

[daystarvoyage]

You know what that has been bugging me recently

This has a lot to do with how the adults are written (in a Negative Light.)

After rewatching the toh I understand that it’s made for adolescence audience which is fine & dandy.

But do you have to demonize the adults, and how there written effects the viewers and fans,

to have popular characters have sympathy for them, putting the blame on the adult figures.

Glossing over the fact they were talked rudely and foul by the fandom is truly unacceptable,

making the teen characters feel favorable, overshadowed the character progression of adults (down below good 4 examples.) of that show,

I know it’s a kid show, and you love your fan favorites & Certain characters, cause of how teens and kids want to have freedom & do what they want,

But what we watch or absorb in media can take a good or bad role in how we act towards people who raise us in households, be it birth, or founding family.

but God damn! This show shows how I hate adult disease spread to fans and viewers, leading to more to be desired for the main 4 observed characters.

DONT GET ME STARTED HOW THEY TREATED DARIUS & GUS!

EXAMPLE

[blightswift]

i was bored so i spent like an hour making toh characters/ships/moments with some midnights lyrics

[shouta-edits]

"Can I request a moodboard for Amity Blight x Lilith Clawthorne (the owl house) with themes of teacher/student relationships, mommy kink, and keeping secrets?" -anon requested

[theautisticcentre]

Mother/Son relationship

Superior mother/son relationship

@punkeropercyjackson @leo-thecactus

[anarchy-flagz]

Lilyqueer Pride Flags + Symbols

“Lilyqueer is an ideology focused on freedom of speech, mind, and body. It is against hate, harm, and hurting other beings in any way, shape, or form.” “This term focuses of being peaceful. Metaphorically singing kumbaya.”

thank you to lime, jake, and me, for helping make this term. emoji combo: 🪷🪘

[dictatorshipper]

I’m so fucking disappointed in them both

Especially in Lilith. She was so worthless in the latest seasons, and her design in s3ep2 was the shittiest thing ever (well, not as much as Luz titan’s form, but still)

[toh-proship-positivity]

Lilith Clawthorne is a proshipper! She loves and supports proshippers! (antis dni)

[sepublic]

My only wish is that we could’ve seen Philip Wittebane without that stupid beard... Like I get it, he needs it in Elsewhere and Elsewhen to preserve the twist that he’s Belos to the viewer, and especially to hide it from Luz and Lilith, who just saw Belos’ face the previous episode. Similarly, Luz only ever remembers him with the beard, so Philip needs to draw on that ‘good’ memory when appealing to her at the end of his life; Being smooth-faced could bridge a connection to the Belos persona he’s desperately trying to distance himself from.

...But did Philip need it when he killed Caleb? 😭 Luz would’ve recognized him with or without it in Belos’ memory portraits, if she had the chance to check while she wasn’t being distracted by a million other things in Hollow Mind. That damn hobo beard! Granted, maybe there’s symbolic visual similarities not just with Dell Clawthorne, but with Jesus Christ, since Philip clearly sees himself as allegorical, even mimicking the crucifixion when attached to the Titan’s heart; Though if we’re being real here, he’s thematically framed as more of an Anti-Christ.

[idoodlestuffsometimes]

Wait… does that mean LILITH’S met Caleb? I’m assuming he knows who she is to him.

Caleb is a major figure used for propaganda and so is occasionally brought to important events or meetings, mainly when Belos wants to make a point (either to Caleb or to the public)

That does mean many high-ranking people have met him, even if it doesn't mean they've been able to have any meaningful conversation with him. Most of the public has also seen him from a distance or on the crystal ball at major events that offer sobering propaganda opportunities, such as public addresses (Caleb may be seated behind Belos and used as a prop for anti-wild magic speeches for example).

He may or may not be coherent while this is going on, so if you did get the rare chance to meet him, the interaction would be not only short and formal but also possibly nonsensical or one-sided

So the short answer is: yes, Lilith would have encountered him. "Meeting" may be a generous term, though.

As for his awareness of their relation: He is not up to date on the exact details of the Clawthorne family tree but he is VERY aware that she IS a Clawthorne.

[the-owl-house-takes]

ngl i rly love the idea of both philip AND caleb being evil assholes

imagine if caleb wanted to wipe out humanity bc his view of them had become so warped after growing up in a town full of witch hunters, so he had this twisted desire to protect witchkind by killing all humans (sound familiar?)

i also like to think caleb initially kept up his "whoa calm down bro" facade during the knife fight but then eventually dropped it and told philip "i shouldve killed you before i left" and went absolutely apeshit on him

(i dont think philip wouldve ever known abt calebs hatred of humanity tho bc imo caleb wouldve been smart enough to not tell him. so philip attacking caleb was still rooted solely on his anti-witch bigotry and does NOT make him a "hero" whatsoever lol)

ik (iirc) dana said evelyn chose caleb bc he seemed to be the nicest person in gravesfield but 1. caleb wouldve been hiding his hatred of humanity for obvious reasons and 2. we dont know shit abt evelyn herself, for all we know her standards couldve been "someone who wouldnt kill a witch on sight"

(speaking of evelyn i personally dont think she was evil in any way. i hc her as more of a batshit chaotic neutral character who did whatever she wanted as long as its fun anyways)

in this case caleb would be interesting foils to philip (anti-human vs anti-witch), hunter (who has an affinity to the human realm and is close to some humans like luz and camila) and the clawthorne sisters (both eda and lilith are flawed but still ultimately good ppl. both the clawthornes and the wittebanes subvert the "good sibling evil sibling" trope this way)

idk exactly what caleb and flapjacks relationship wouldve been like tho they had to have been close to some degree right? but at the same time i think flapjack had always disagreed with calebs anti-human sentiments but was afraid to actively oppose him, and ofc flap was happy that hunter was able to befriend a human and enjoy the human realm

speaking of hunter i. i was gonna say "imagine if hunter found out abt caleb wanting to wipe out humanity lol so angsty" but tbh i think that would just be TOO traumatic to him (even for an angst enjoyer like me) like he straight up wont be able to recover from that imo. or at least take a REALLY long time to recover but either way i dont think he should learn abt that kinda stuff. i do think it would be interesting if luz, eda and lilith found out tho

i also originally had the hc that caleb built the cat eye portal with the purpose of ambushing gravesfield once he was ready, but after the papa titan eye reveal in wad im not even sure who built that portal anymore- well either way caleb still wouldve wanted to build A portal ig (not the other one that led to the clawthorne house, i think that was probably evelyns)

also. the irony of both caleb and philip dying as smth that theyve hated (caleb died as a human and philip died as a "witch/demon", not literally the species in philips case but more luzs definition of "powerful magic user", and we can all agree that monster philip is demonic). i do think caleb was trying to find ways to turn himself into a real witch but philip killed him before he could succeed

uhh idk how to end this long ass post lmao- actually yk what im just gonna go ahead and say ik this will probably never be canon even if we get more official toh content in the future, its just a fun idea/hc i rly like!!! i have so much more to say abt this hc but imma stop here for now bc i dont want this ask to be TOO long lol

-

[daystarvoyage]

Hey! I know most people like to imagine Philip's reaction upon seeing Lilith centuries later and realizes that she's the one who punched him in the face but hear me out and imagine this:

Ghost Caleb who's following his brother around/ Papa Titan watching Philip through the cubes and both sees Lilith punching Philip in the Deadwardian era: .... He deserved that...

Both men centuries later, seeing a younger Lilith and recognizes her: OMG, it's her! *immediately starts the countdown when will Lilith go back in time*

hmmm, I do feel you're talking about the interactions with the claw-thrones & witter banes in the show,

SO I'm going to make this elaborate answer,

But I have a lot to add along this by ranting in my input.

Yes, I do feel that was a lost opportunity to flesh out these groups more, cause Eda is a main character, with Lilith being her sister, which should've been explored properly.

along with their family Gwen & dill, they were the coolest characters shown, Gwen to be exact ever since her debut showing off her magical prowess.

The father's Name I think?, I feel he never got proper exposure except for that strained family moment episode, and that’s it so that’s a missed opportunity.

(SIGH It's weird how they treat the MEN in the show very weird, cause they didn’t make a prominent impact like the females, ANOTHER TOPIC SOON.)

we never get any future closure within the series centered around the family, cause they could've made room to due alot, let alone even a conversation, or more advancements on how IDK the palismen can properly excel the magic system within the show CAUSE DILL HAS KNOWLEDGE OF THEM.

As for lilith time travel episode,

Ghost Caleb Shoudve made a debut in season 2 instead being muddled with discourse to have more characters who haven't had proper spotlight to Get to know them being overshadowed.

I mean its a fantasy show, you have to have proper worldbuilding and lore being talked about more, Which the whole show-and-tell thing didn't work out cause it was never explored again, plus the time travel aspect should've contributed a lot more but was played off just for bplot manner that should've been bigger, (unlike another episode with one bplot overtook a certain characters spotlight?!)

LIKE THE WITTERBANE LORE BEING RUSHED and the only achievement that Lilith got after your fans treated her badly,

(with Camilia who’s a good mother, SO WE DONT WELCOME TOXIC HATERS HERE.)

For Lilith to get in your good graces is just punching Phillip, OR BEING KNOW AS AROACE cause when your sexuality wins with no proper character development or Writing in the Owl House. (which is understandable cause lgbt media has been taboo throughout times.)

but not properly give nuance on why I know she wanted to have objectives, please we need Good writing characters plz.

(besides Lilith befriending Phillip in the time travel episode.)

Lilith development i feel should've been placed in an organized manner. I Swear the show treats its adults in a useless adults or demonizes them if they don't let their favorites get there way. shunned them retcon them or not celebrated more compared to the other popular characters. SMH

so heres term for it

(not to mention their characters being retconned at times.)

it felt they got off easy with her ever since I watched pitched bibles of her being antagonistic, (along her run of the show), as time goes by, We got to see which contributed that, that should've been explored

as for the yes along Papa Titan ordeal, I felt they should've made him more impactful cause he is a literal god yet he's just made as a joke for luz to revive herself. COME ON

all i know is the Witterbane & Clawthrones should've had more interactions with A POWERFUL GOD SMH, cause dill had knowledge of some powerful items that could've contributed to the story but he was sidelined, the way they shelved half the characters is just wow

So hope this answers all your questions and thanks for sipping tea with me more topics on my youtube Channel - Daystar Voyage

[usagirln12003]

Edalyn Clawthorne: Hogwarts AU

Edalyn Clawthorne is a Pureblood witch that was born on the 18th of June 1959 and started attending Hogwarts on the 1st of September 1970, being sorted into Gryffindor house.

She has a Blackthorn wand with a Phoenix Feather Core.

Her Patronus is a Barn Owl.

Her favorite subject was Defense Against the Dark Arts and her least favorite was History of Magic.

She was a Chaser on the Gryffindor Quidditch team from her fourth year onward and became the captain in her sixth.

Confident and sassy, Eda is best described as rebellious, with Luz calling her "surprisingly foxy for her age". Her vast skills and aptitude in witchcraft give her a brash streak, as she proudly declares her power and is openly defiant of authorities, going as far as knocking an auror unconscious and flying off to avoid getting caught.

Unlike her sister Lilith, Eda is vehemently anti-authoritarian, having little to no respect for laws and authority in general. She refuses to get any legal jobs because she views them as crooked for the limitations they place on magic. She is also not a fan of the educational system for similar reasons, bemoaning its reliance on "blind obedience" and "pointless busywork".

Eda is described as the sort of teacher that would not only throw someone into the deep end, but also set the entire body of water on fire. Eda has an odd view of how a good apprentice should act; she is very proud of Luz for getting detention for the first time, reacting the same way when Luz convinces her to teach new spells by appealing to her vanity.

It's shown that she has a caring side to her and she is willing to protect the people she holds most dear, such as when she protects Luz multiple times, being close to a mother figure for her, as well as swallowing her pride when she realizes that she's being unreasonable and that Luz is miserable not being around her new friends and only having a limited palette with learning about magic, and enrolling her at Hogwarts. She also deeply cares about Lilith despite them both being on different sides of the law. It also seems she is afraid of losing her friends, and as such tries to ignore the idea of them leaving.

Eda was also shown to be very forgiving, shown when she decided to forgive Lilith for cursing her and even letting her live with her after seeing how sorry she was and how she willingly shared the curse with her to make amends, although she doesn't miss the opportunity to remind her sister about what she's done through some playful banter, adding to her guilt.

She is also very protective of her family and loved ones, but in her desire to keep them out of harm's way, Eda tends to drive people away, either to protect them from her curse or anything else, like she did with Raine and her parents; such distance lasted for years. She tried doing the same with Luz, wanting her to run away from the wizarding world to protect her from Belos' looming threat, and her insistence caused a fight between them, which strained their relationship for a little while.

For all the distance she tries to keep sometimes, Eda always means well, and has shown much patience and forgiveness. When Luz was believed to have been killed by Belos, despite going through a fit of rage in her grief, she gently pushed the Collector away from her, not wanting to take her anger out on the child and showing she didn't blame them for anything, wanting to focus her rage on the real cause of it.