#anti rhaewin

[darklinaforever]

Honestly, I always want to laugh when people tell me I should ship Rhaewin instead of Daemyra. 😂

Why ?! What exactly is there to ship with these two ?!

All we know is that he is probably, but without real confirmation, the father of Rhaenyra's Velaryon boys in Fire and Blood, and that he must surely be loyal to Rhaenyra and that she trusted him accordingly.

But we really don't know anything at all about the kind of relationship they had.

Okay. Fire and Blood is a history book, but at least we know something about the Daemyra relationship in it.

Whether some people like it or not, they are the central romance of this period, not Rhaewrin.

Harwin is clearly, as Laena was to Daemon, a second choice for Rhaenyra, as she was unable to have Daemon and found herself forced into a complicated marriage with Laenor.

Why do you think it was right when Daemon returned to Westeros that Rhaenyra stopped having children with Harwin, and that Rhaenyra was probably already pregnant with Aegon III when Harwin was alive ? 😂

[mhsdatgo]

Why you don't like the ship of harwin and rhaenyra? He is the only man in her lifes who treat her kindly and show actual love. All the other, like viserys criston daemon ecc, treat her like shit

Hello, anon. I agree with you about every single man in her life treating Rhaenyra horribly but Harwin is no different.

He's her sworn shield after Criston is called by Alicent's side, her supposed "champion". But the show gave us so little about him that I literally cannot, for the life of me, grasp the love this man gets. All we get of him is that he's basically a glorified boytoy, what Criston would've been had he put Rhaenyra before his honour.

From the books, we know that several sisters of his are Rhae's ladies-in-waiting, his father is the Hand when Otto leaves for a brief period of time and he's generally at court for long before Rhaenyra marries. This makes Harwin the man who watched her grow up, GROW UP. She was a KID when he started buzzing around her or her court.

The first time they interact in the show, it's when Harwin gives her that (nothing short of disgusting other than impressed imo) when she's back to the camp with a boar during Aegon's name day, the second is a year later when he tackles her in the streets, mistaking her for a boy when she's out with Daemon. He lets her go when he spots him. Timeskip happens, we learn that they're lovers and they have three kids together.

Where's the buildup?????? Where's the reason for me to love them as a couple or him as Rhae's partner???? Must we assume he started getting the hots for her when he saw her drenched in blood in that camp? SHE WAS F*CKING 16!

Also, let's not pretend he did anything to help besides warming her bed and making her a mother of 3 before she hit 25. He knew there were rumors, he was pretty much aware of what people thought and what he, Rhae and their kids were risking. Guess what he did about it? Absolutely f*cking nothing.

He didn't marry, he didn't go back to Harrenhall, he acted defensive when his father brought the question up.

Viserys and Alicent sending him away was what it took for him to finally back away from this girl. After, obviously, screwing everything up astronomically. You can go after Criston's bitterness all you want, you can call him jealous (honestly I don't think he is, but that's for another post). But his reaction in the fields is nothing short of ridiculous imo.

What did Criston say? That he was protecting Luke like a father would rather than a trainer. A provocation, a comment that should've flew right in and out of Harwin's ears, if he was as honourable as the fandom makes him out to be. He could've said that it doesn't take being the child's father to notice how callously he's treating him. It could've turned into a meme-worth scene of two men absolutely hating each other's guts but seething right from their asses about not being able to just leap and tear at each other for all they're worth.

What would be wrong? Being called his son's father, great heavens. He could've just went "oh shit" and could've walked away after making sure baby Luke was okay, but what did he did? He handed Criston's ass to him, which was exactly what he wanted.

This man viewed that comment as disrespect to his honor, a stain in his pride. Because being pointed out as a rumored ( not really rumored to him, he knows he is, which just makes it worse) bastard's father is DISGRACEFUL to him. He knows EXACTLY what Rhaenyra, the heir, risks, and does nothing but worsen her position further. If he cared about those kids, or if he was just deluding himself into playing happy family with her, I can't say.

I don't think he hates them, mind you. I'm not here to dehumanize him. They're his own flesh and blood, he loves them, he wishes to love them and be in his life like a father should. I think it's (rightfully) a pain in the ass watching another man raise your children. He could've done it to protect Luke, but it's not his job to remind Criston that insinuating that Rhaenyra has sired bastards is treason. That outburst was unnecessary, at least to me. It did nothing but worsen everything. Knowing Alicent, and how she made Criston apologize for calling Rhae a c*nt with a simple glare, SHE'D scold that rascal good the moment she hears of it.

Harwin would hold back, at the very least, if he actually lived up to TB's standards. For Rhae, Jace, Luke and Joff's sake. I'm not going to act like Rhae is innocent but fuck anyone who thinks she's the only one at fault. She was barely an adult when they started interacting.

BONUS:

*chef's kiss* Unforgettable. As if being from a lower class is the only bad thing there is about the dude you were beating to a pulp just three seconds ago. Although that's less about Harwin and Rhae and more about Harwin but whatever.

[lady-corrine]

Rhaenicents, laenyras, rhaewins and some daemyras I need all of you to stay as far away from Rhaenyra as possible.

[alicenttully]

idk if im just being overly harsh, but i kinda of think it’s ironic that harwin strong gets called rhaenyra’s “champion” because imo if you want to be entirely honest, idk its not entirely deserving.

it again comes back to the three boys.  unlike the show where there’s a bit of an age gap between joff and his two older brothers,  rhaenyra in fire and blood has almost three back to back pregnancies.  jace in the “waning days” of 114, luke in late 115, and joff in 117.  given that the text doesn’t indicate they weren’t full-term,  rhaenyra spent most of those short years pregnant.

i understand that luke was most likely an accident, that they hadn’t intended to fall pregnant again their firstborn. that they probably weren’t excepting it.  but for me, knowing harwin saw rhaenyra went through two back-to-back pregnancies (as her sworn sword, he would have spent a lot of time with her so he would have seen how uncomfortable rhaenyra would have been, he doesn’t have the benefit of it being made a distant thing)  and yet apparently thought it was a good idea to keep sleeping with her even though he must have known that such close pregnancies probably wasn’t entirely healthy or safe for her.  its not entirely the same thing but the reason aemma arryn had so much grief childbearing is that her marriage was consummated when she was still too young and hadn’t finished developing.

obviously, i’m not denying rhaenyra’s agency here. rhaenyra’s position is quite different in that harwin was her sworn sword, not her husband with actual legal rights.  she could have easily sent him away from dragonstone.   but it was still harwin’s job to keep her safe. was he doing that? just because she got through all 3 pregnancies without any major complications doesn’t mean harwin’s actions weren’t selfish imo.

[eliaism]

saying you want rhaenyra to die for something viserys did and then tagging #rhaenicent. TGs are exhausting. I used to ship rhaenicent, when I first watched HOTD because I didn’t own F&B, now I don’t. TG rhaenicents really don’t try to hide their hatred for rhaenyra at all.

[lady-clouves]

I hate when people look at the Daemrya s*x scene and say that it’s what Laena and Harwin would’ve wanted. Like 🤨, no Laena clearly states that she feels and knows that her own husband would rather be married to someone else. And I highly doubt Harwin’s #1 concern is with who’s keeping Rhaenyra’s bed warm after he dies.

[florisbaratheons]

I just saw tags on a post that said that Rhaenyra's orgasms died with Harwin Strong and seriously.

[heretic-child]

like idk! but trying to paint harwin was the healthiest and realest lover of rhaenyra is funny when in fact both were trying to hide their relationship thus rhaenyra was lonely while constantly fighting against the bastard rumors and being called bitch or whatever. even she herself pointed out her life was a droll tragedy without daemon but sure you analyzed this media better than me

[annes-andromeda]

Shameless plug for my HOTD fanfic if anyone wants to read. It’s mostly green centric and has alicole, but it also has rhaewin and aemond x male OC.

Be warned though, this is also a team black critical, anti v*serys and anti da*mon fanfic.

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

People would rather a girl be a victim of sexual assault than even consider the idea of her having control of her own sexuality.

Rhaewin is a consensual relationship between two adults, according to antis it is now rape. We know she has access to contraception because they didn’t have any more kids after Joffrey and there’s a 6 year age gap between Viserys and Visenya. But I saw a hater insist Harwin forced Rhaenyra to become pregnant, because that makes more sense than even consider the idea that maybe she WANTED to have three children.

Alicent sought out Viserys because she wanted to become Queen, yes it was pretty shady how Otto was grooming his teenage daughter but it wasn’t outright marital rape the way the show made out. She wanted sons to secure her power, she may not have been attracted to Viserys but she did want sex to get sons. The show robs her of agency by making it all “poor Alicent Hightower she’s a 24/7 victim”.

Even in Game of Thrones no one bat an eye when Sansa was being raped by Ramsay but they felt uncomfortable when Arya had sex with Gendry because she’s taking control rather than being abused.

They want Lyanna to be a victim of Rhaegar because that’s the only way they can sympathise with her.

Yes to all of this. They seem to want female characters to be groomed or abused, because apparently they can sympathise with them if they aren't.

[lady-corrine]

https://www.tumblr.com/lady-corrine/736166029655474176/rhaenicents-laenyras-rhaewins-and-some-daemyras

OMG THISS

I couldn't help it and went into the anti Rhaenicent tag here and the way 90% of them were anti Rhaenyra and that's why they didn't ship them???? Not bc it didnt make sense or that Alicent was jealous of Rhae's position, or anything else, just that they *hated* Rhaenyra????

I even saw one stating she would have been glad if Alicent gleefully slashed Rhaenyra's arm durning Driftmark and I'm????

Like bae, Rhae MANHANDLED the bladed and stepped between it and her son. I know she knows how to fight and Alicent would have been on the ground, lmao. Rhae may be a princess but I just know she knows how to fight hair up and earrings out style.

Tell me about it.

Rhaenicents make fun of Rhaenyra being murdered, saying they can't wait to see it on screen. They call her illiterate, make fun of her suffering, call her a fat cow and so on. They call Daemon names but completely ignore Alicent cutting Rhaenyra's arm open or Alicent making Rhaenyra walk to her chambers the very second Rhaenyra gave birth, with a trail of blood after her. And I won't even get into Alicent teaching Aegon to see Rhaenyra as his enemy. Most of them detest Rhaenyra and detest the fact that Rhaenyra did not grovel at their fave's feet, while Alicent is completely obsessed with her.

Rhaewins constantly use the choking scene as a gotcha, constantly pray Daemon will abuse Rhaenyra in season two to "win" with their ship, constantly hope Daemon will cheat on Rhaenyra to... prove a point I guess. They reduce Rhaenyra's pain at the loss of her sons to "Rhaenyra actually mourned parts of Harwin", as if she wasn't the most loving mother we were presented in asoiaf and couldn't care any less about Harwin dying.

Laenyras never mention Rhaenyra outside of their ship. They make fun of Rhaenyra's traumatic miscarriage, they make fun of Visenya, they constantly whine about how Laena should have been presented as Daemon's "true love" and always throw Rhaenyra under the bus to uplift their fav. They cheer for domestic violence and wish for Rhaenyra to be subjected to it. The ship is nothing else but them trying to make their irrelevant fave somehow significant.

Daemyras are most of the time the ones that love Rhaenyra the most. But here too I see self inserts that only care about Daemon and his character. Saying Rhaenyra loved him more than he did her, that she should have been somehow grateful to him, that they don't see why Daemon would love her, that Rhaenyra would forgive him if he would kill her Velaryon sons to put his on the throne, excusing the choking scene and so on.

These people do not like Rhaenyra for herself or her character traits. They just use her for their petty fights in the fandom, because she is a popular and mostly beloved character. And I for one got very tired of it.

[darklinaforever]

Every man in asoiaf is a predator, it's rare when they are not. The majority is predators. You said it yourself it's the period the story is setting up, but just cause it's the period it doesn't mean it's justified. How am i embarrassing myself? You're just in the most crazy deep denial lmao and it's useless that you bring always the same old interviews, convenient hiding the whole part cause the 3 of them said it's grooming. Plus, you said they're romance in the book and then bring the old interviews of the show. What that have to do? Im talking about book right now, bit Daemyra it's not an ordinary common love, in both book and show. If you're looking for it, go ship rhaewin

If you think that all men in the GRRM universe are predators then you're the one who has a problem. Especially if you think you're smart for spouting such bullshit. (Especially if that's the case... you should also think that of Harwin as a result)

I repeat, Daemyra is not grooming, book or show. I've made tons of posts on this subject where there is all the explanation you need to understand it :

But you won't read all that, because all you care about is pretending you're smarter and morally superior.

I know what I'm saying about the characters.

At least I have already opened history books to understand how the world of GRRM works through historical contexts, and opened a dictionary to understand the words I use. Seeing this author's universe from a modern point of view is a mistake.

And no thanks. I don't want to ship a relationship that we know nothing about in the book and see very little in the show.

@lizzie-queenofmeigas @nrilliree @kittenfangirl20 @la-pheacienne

[darklinaforever]

Me, when I see people shipping Gwyn & Azriel (Gwynriel), Elain & Lucien (Elucien), Sophie & Fitz (Sophitz), Shuri & Riri (Shuriri), Jon & Sansa (Jonsa), Wednesday & Xavier (Wavier / Wenvier), Elora & Kit, The Doctor & Donna, Feyre & Tamlin (Feylin), Stiles & Malia (Stalia), Katniss & Gale, Glimmer & Adora (Glimmadora), Dawson & Joey, Addie & Henry, Finn & Rey (Finrey), Rhaenyra & Harwin (Rhaewin), Rhaenyra & Alicent (Rhaenicent), Daemon & Mysaria, Daemon & Laena, Daemon & Nettles, Ross & Rachel (Roschel), Mal & Alina (Malina), Mai & Zuko (Maiko), Katara & Aang (Kataang) :

[florisbaratheons]

I just read a post that had the gall to suggest - no not suggest, actually state with belief, that Rhaenyra didn't love Harwin and was only passing the time until Daemon came back.

[lady-corrine]

What are your thoughts on Rhaewin and Laemon? Do you think Rhaenyra really loved Harwin and that he is her soulmate? Same with Laemon?

I couldn't care any less about Rhaewin & Laemon. Never will, never did. They are two boring, completely uninteresting ships that have no relevance whatsoever.

But for the sake of your questions *sighs*:

"Do you think Rhaenyra really loved Harwin and that he is her soulmate?"

Rhaenyra got with Harwin in Daemon's absence, after Daemon asked to marry her and was exiled. She was also married against her will with her husband, who was a gay man. She found a lover that was in love with her, that desired her, that loved her. And good for her for not living like a nun as her antis want! I have no doubt that she cared for Harwin, but calling him her soulmate is nothing short of ridiculous, considering this man has absolutely no character traits, and Rhaenyra marries Daemon, the man who more than probably killed Harwin, almost instantly.

(If you also do a little math, you also can realize that baby Aegon was conceived while Harwin was still alive, btw)

As for Daemon and Laena: Daemon asked to marry Rhaenyra after months of courtship and was exiled under penalty of death. Years later, he had no money and no allies. Bear in mind that the moment Rhea dies he tries to lay claim on her incomes. That failes, of course, and what does Daemon do the very second that happens? Marries the daughter of the richest man in Westeros, who just so happens to be Rhaenyra's sister in law.

I said it before and I will say it again: Harwin and Laena were both canonically written as second choices that never would have happened if Rhaenyra and Daemon would have been allowed to marry from the beginning.

Harwin arrived at court with his sisters as the Hand's son and Rhaenyra took absolutely no interest in him while Daemon courted her. Daemon knew Corlys for years, ever since they fought together in the war, yet he took absolutely no interest in Laena and asked for Rhaenyra's hand to marry her.

The whole "Harwin and Laena were Rhaenyra's and Daemon's true loves/soulmates" is nothing else but headcanons that their stans made up because they hate daemyra as a ship. Mind you, Laena stans lead this campaign of "she is Daemon's true love" for literal years because they hate Rhaenyra and hate to see her being loved. So they take an irrelevant female character and self-insert as much as they can.

These couples' stans are people that try to seem intellectuals by taking a couple of sentences and inventing headcanons that are absolutely laughable. Then they threw a fit when Daemon and Rhaenyra were written as the main romance in the show with their own love theme, while the two plot devices received five seconds of screentime.

Rhaenyra and Daemon cared about them, certainly, but they were always each other's one true love and each other's first choice.

[heretic-child]

gonna be an anti rhaenyra x harwin in spite of daemyra antis believe rhaewin is better