#but is he contextually and canonically queer?

[purplecladmerchant]

I'm calling this Eldermourne relisten. WAIT IS ZIRK STRAIGHT?! And I'll let you know if Zirk is or isn't canonically queer.

[morningfangirl]

The Room Where It Happens absolutely gutted me emotionally. I went from screaming laughing about Ian saying he could get Poppy pregnant to sobbing just a couple minutes later.

Poppy avoiding the hard conversations under the guise of wanting to set her boundaries. Ian not understanding how what he did was selfish and genuinely thinking he was doing a good thing for Poppy. Ian knowing he doesn't fit in (like Poppy struggles to fit), but not caring because he thinks Poppy will always be there, and begging to do anything. Poppy not throwing Ian's own family in his face because she doesn't want to hurt him, but she also fully realized how Mythic Quest limits her instead of just wanting power and control like seasons 1 and 2.

Contextualizing this episode within everything we know about canon digs even deeper. Poppy doesn't know adulthood (and really doesn't know life in America) away from Ian's influence. She dropped out of MIT at nineteen to be Ian's programmer. They've been working together for a decade and a half, and Poppy has only been given somewhat of a platform to be Ian's equal for roughly a third of that time.

In terms of writing I loved it, character growth is an important aspect for most types of stories, but also I like Poppy and Ian's toxically co-dependent queer platonic relationship.

[camerainbow]

Eddie Diaz Rant (Buddie included) *hopecore*

This is a long one but it’s pretty straightforward

I know the Buddies are upset by the finale but if we are assuming Buddie will become canon I’m kind of glad Eddie will have his support network in person when he starts to figure himself out and doesn’t have to confront how repressed he has been when in his former hometown (and away from Buck).

I think it’s a good thing to show people that you can figure out parts of yourself in your chosen home instead, I’m glad he got Chris back so that Buddie can be coparents as they’ve been set up to potentially be.

Yes the PR tour of Buddie stuff now feels like a distraction to that finale but I think it was kind of like: don’t lose hope Buddie shippers, even if it’s not now, it will happen. Grief doesn’t have to be the thing that causes you to find yourself (or realize someone is your partner who you hadn’t considered before) and it seems kinder to have Eddie figuring out himself in a later stage of grief after rebuilding his life in his ideal home: Los Angeles.

I do agree the El Paso storyline did feel like a lot for just getting Chris back but at least Eddie now knows his most supportive family is his chosen family (and Aunt Pepa as a more fitting maternal figure than what is in Texas, and someone who can step into the void Bobby’s death created within his support network). Also we got that great episode from the moving storyline of Buck supporting Eddie by subletting from him and he didn’t have to lose Chris���/his home when he sacrificed stuff to get his son. The progression of Buddie seemed stilted with the absence of Chris if I’m being honest, I’m looking forward to them in person again.

Buddie not being partners through the 118 in next season means they get to contextualize their relationship in a different way than before which is exciting(!) and I think Eddie will realize better the depth of Bucks love for him without the partner label. Also out and proud homosexual Hen being his medic partner (if we assume Chimney as Cap) will be exciting and I hope we see more of their relationship like we did in 8x17 (clearly the best episode of late S8). We might get to see more of Eddie channeling Bobby to find “another way” when presented with only two options during an emergency (though I see Chim also channeling Bobby).

I’m personally so glad we avoided the awkwardness of having to see the logistics of Eddie going back, selling that house, and Buck being asked to leave. Though yes I am mourning a sooner Buddie roommates reality :/

Once we saw the direction they were going with the El Paso storyline I kind of dreaded a rushed feelings realization if there was gonna be one in S8. I’m happy it will be explored more in depth and not be a sudden moment/cliffhanger, it feels more honest to the character. Even though it frustrates me as we grow more and more impatient. But we must remember Buck has only been canonically queer since S7, and they have only been on ABC for two seasons now. Queer slow-burn storylines when both of the characters begin their character arcs on the show as “canonically” (assumed) straight have to take longer than other slow-burns by design (for the general audience to accept).

After seeing the Buddie argument in the kitchen, I think the aftermath of Chris visiting creating the impression of it being all better would be a little too storybook. And although I didn’t really care for the regression of Buck’s feelings in this finale episode (he shut down again seeing his 118 family not heeled since he knew Eddie was leaving still), it did feel real for him to still be processing the grief and loss of his old normal.

The amount of shifting around (Chim to Captain, Eddie back but working with Hen presumably, hopefully more Buck Ravi bestie-ism) will be very interesting to watch in S9!

Most of what I’m worried about is honestly Athena’s storyline since we didn’t really see her actual thought process for selling the house, I don’t know how we will see them (her and the 118) interact in the future out side of work, we can assume they will be a family but since not every shift includes police response, will she be getting less screen time?

Let’s remain hopeful to the possibilities! I think this set up allows us to process Bobby’s death more over the hiatus and doesn’t use a queer storyline for shock value in a finale!

I totally understand anyone who steps away from the show for their own mental wellness, it’s a lot if you feel strung along, but there’s always hope as the show is not over. Be kind to yourself and don’t fall into a spiral of doom if you can help it <3

[evansbuck-ley]

yk what i have been thinking about? the bucktommy beginning was sm about tommy teaching and showing buck new things. and it felt so romantic and hot. but now 8x06 has recontexualized everything in a bad way. 😩

it seems like they never had any casual talks about buck's newly discovered queerness. just, yk, hey, how are you feeling two months into this relationship? do you still have moments where you worry what others might think? buck put a rainbow emoji in his public instagram account during pride, has queer friends, and... he apparently did nothing with his personal queer revelations?

they apparently also never talked about exes and what they did in their lives before meeting and how they want their lives to look like in their future and their personal boundaries and and and... like, you ask those big questions (family plans, financial situation, hobbies, job situation, etc.) in the dating phase, which is before you actually commit to a person in an exclusive monogamous way! why invest in a relationship when you don't even ask if the other is looking for something long-term lol?

the fact that 8x06 also confirmed that they spend a lot of time together just makes things worse because 1.) what the fuck have you been doing all this time then, both individually and together, and 2.) then it makes even less sense for buck to ask tommy to move in or for tommy to break up immediately or for both wanting to reach out because how did they even reach the 6 month mark without talking? without learning anything of importance about each other and themselves?

it makes canon bucktommy look like every other shallow short-term fling that buck had so far. could have simply been fuck buddies and they would have had the same level of knowledge about each other after 6 months. just hate how this one episode retrospectively fucked over canon bucktommy in so many different ways ☹️

8x06 is straight up trash. fact.

if they had always planned for them to break up they could have done it SO much better and not leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. And you are right, contextually it makes the whole six months they were together seem so…meh.

and as much as people joke about buck speed running his bisexual awakening, since the first initial story line, has anyone really acknowledged it? are you telling me that hen has not even spoken to buck about what this all means to him? wdym known research freak evan buckley didn’t spent all night after tommy kissed him deep diving into this whole new side to him. they simply said “look he is bi and now has a boyfriend” and moved on. they don’t even SAY the word bisexual in the show. which is just fucking insane to me. they just skate around it in such a horrendous way.

and don’t even get me started on the Abby side of things because I absolutely DESPISE it. it’s such lazy writing.

but on the flip side, contextually 8x06 gave us so much good. buck was ready for something more with tommy, he was ready to live together and grow old together. he was ready for tommy to be just last. same for tommy, he wanted all that with buck. buck was also tommy’s last and they had so much opportunity to really dig into his character, to explore why he was scared to go there with buck. but again, they just wrote it off.

we also have previous episodes that actively show that this isn’t just a fling, especially for tommy. he showed up to the cafe simply because buck asked. he came to the hospital after fighting a fire because he made a promise and buck got a lil pouty about it. he showed up for buck again and again in 8x05 because he clearly cared.

for me personally, 8x06 doesn’t make their whole relationship seem like a fling. for me, it shows that these two characters care about each other so much, but clearly lack some communication of how they feel and where they both are, in the context of their relationship and in the context of their own personal journey’s.

[cinematics123]

So, buddie lifer here, but I will say that I did like Tommy, historic problems with that character aside. While I prefer Buddie, I enjoyed the perspective of an older queer character (look at Josh/Brian Safi’s speech!) to the show.

I would love to see Tommy back on the show, and to get to explore that more - and I think Josh would be an excellent partner/foil for that.

That said, I liked Natalia too. And I even liked Ana, although Marisol can suck a dick. I didn’t dislike characters because they “stood in the way of Buddie” and I still don’t. I hated Taylor because she was BAD for Buck - and he was bad for her.

That said, it’s not good to gloat and I feel bad for the actor getting swept off (although glad he has other projects) and I’d love to see him back on the show in a different capacity.

For the BuckTommy only fans, I know you all feel pretty angry at the moment, but I also would like to invite you to contextualize what this means for 911 and Buddie - Buddie *was* supposed to go canon, that is the direction the show was actively moving in - and the studio not only blocked it but they cancelled the show. Only ABC was willing to step in and give the show a chance to shine and to actually have the courage to do buddie.

Without the passion of the audience, we would never have had bi Buck or BuckTommy from season 7, because the studio that shall not be named cancelled the show in Season 6.

A line from Josh on learning to respect the struggle of your elders definitely applied to Buck needing to respect what Josh has been through. But, it also applies to what the Buddie shippers have been through getting gaybaited by a studio on purpose and getting their whole show (which was the number 1 show in its time slot) shut down so their ship could not go canon. I will miss Tommy. I’d like to explore what his struggles were that led him here and led him to being someone Chim and Hen could rely on instead of being in the group that picked in them. But, understand why people are thrilled to see another barrier to their ship go away. It may come off as something anti-Tommy - but that anger has never really been about Tommy.

[neonscandal]

Okay, if you were asked who are in JJK & BNHA that you can see based on canon that are gay/bi/pan/demi, which characters are they?

For me satoaugu and bakudeku are definitely not straight (yes, I ship them but I don't think they "must be into women only" like a post I just saw). Also, kaminari, jirou, toga, nobara, megumi, kenjaku....

Ah yes, a person with discerning tastes. ✨ While this feels like a sure fire way to get me into some hot water, let's dive right in.

✨🌈 Happy pride to the queer people in my phone 🌈✨

But especially these

Megumi "Only Interested in Compassion" Fushiguro - pansexual (very much choosing to overlook very subtle implications of siscon as a red herring to, of course, further contextualize ItaFushi). See also Gojo and the uncharacteristic Miwa agenda.

Satoru Gojo - Let's be so for real. Man is down astronomical for Suguru but I think there's still evidence/reason to believe he could be ace or demisexual. Can strength be conflated with love?

Kinji Hakari - waving the white flag on this one considering I'm 4 weeks behind and I don't know if there's been further clarification that might swing this verdict one way or another but support Hikari's love regardless of Kirara's gender expression/identity. Also, given current events, it'd be pretty weird if Gege slipped that in out of nowhere.

Kenjaku - 🗣️ IF GIVEN ENOUGH TIME, DO WE NOT ALL BECOME A LIL GAY!? I understand straight people probably don't have such realizations so I'm just going to sit with that reflection.

Nobara Kugisaki - be so for real. I think she had a misplaced crush in her idolization of Saori that made more sense when she left the bumble fuck countryside and could live her best life, out and proud with her muscle mommy girlfriend, Maki. Also explains, a bit, why Saori was ostracized where Nobara may have lacked understanding/context.

Maki - Plenty of gay icons without last names, queen. This one just happens to also be gay.

Eijirou Kirishima is almost so straight that he unintentionally makes a hard U-turn into flirting with queerness. His phrasing is baffling as he tends to pop up in those threads frequently with assumingly unintended innuendos but it is also reminiscent about how no one third wheels harder than a dude's girlfriend when he's with his best friend? I don't know if that makes sense but I'm throwing him in the mix as someone who maybe just needs some time ✨ regardless of the BakuDeku to KiriMina parallels.

Denki Kaminari - This kid has eyes and he uses them, gender be damned. A bi-disaster if I've ever seen one.

Minoru Mineta - IDK if his Deku confession was a translation faux pas or if Mineta, too, has fallen for the male lead's quintessential charm that wins over hearts and minds. While the Council on Bisexuality would fight me on this one... his membership is still pending.

Izuku Midoriya - I have it on good authority that Izuku is Bakusexual. Flustered by girls in the same way that any awkward and bullied kid might when encountering the opposite sex but his heart has always had its allegiance to one person. Whether that makes him gay, demi or even bi, I think it tracks.

Katsuki Bakugo - bi, pan or gay, the consensus is he is Not Straight.

Kyoka Jiro - in Smash, Jiro is a total fujoshi (she just like us fr). If you'll allow submitting MHA Smash into evidence, coupled with the canon main story, I say bi. A girl who knows Momo is stacked but also reasonably wants the attention and company of a Class 1A boy as a girl would at that age.

Himiko Toga - one thing about Toga. She is going to know and live her truth. Confidently bi ✨

Ochaco Uraraka - SPEAKING OF LIVING TRUTHS. She a little late but she has the right spirit.

Bonus, if including Kirishima didn't some how get me booed, I was going to add Yuta Okkotsu too but I thought better of it. 👉🏾👈🏾

[parasauro]

AN ANGEL, A DEMON, AND A PLATE OF ROAST MEAT - QUEER INTIMACY IN GOOD OMENS’ “A COMPANION TO OWLS”

Spoilers for S2 EP 2 of Good Omens below the cut!

A “Companion to Owls”, the minisode pertaining to the second episode of the second season of Good Omens, brings us a significant reveal in that Crowley was the one to introduce Aziraphale to food. Deftly using the audience’s foreknowledge to bring illuminating tenderness to an otherwise simple scene, Aziraphale discovers the bliss of human food while hiding out an overhead storm. The scene plays out reminiscent of Hades and Persephone, a temptation and entrapment through food presented underground, or in this case a cellar. A more Christian-aligned interpretation of the scene lies in the particular observation that Crowley tempts Aziraphale into an innocuous bite that swiftly becomes an act of gluttony- a deadly sin not unlike the Garden. Just as humanity got quite a lot out of the whims of Crowley’s temptations, Aziraphale’s very first experience with food, which he comes to love deeply in arguable moderation, was an act of indulgence and gluttony. At a defining moment in his relationship with Heaven, his love for human food is not only contrary to the behavior of an angel, but sinful in itself. 

Since the act of Aziraphale eating is doubly characterized as a deviant behavior, it bears credence to analyze how this scene fits into the broader themes inherent to Aziraphale and Crowley’s queerness. Throughout the first season, Good Omen’s themes of ostracization, divergence from expectation, rejection of the accepted, and a connection transcendent of standard human definition permeate the queer experience. Both Crowley and Aziraphale have been consistently coded alongside the queer expressions of the various eras they’ve lived through. In relation to each other, Crowley is arguably more experienced in the then-seedier parts of Soho and the elements of queer life that entailed. Aziraphale doesn’t lag far behind, but his experience lies solidly with a different crowd of queer folk. Contextualized within their continuing relationship to queerness, the scene in the cellar takes on an additional interpretation. In the simplest terms available that preserve the content of the scene: Crowley offers Aziraphale his meat, and Aziraphale gobbles it down. 

Blunt, but accurate. 

In a more nuanced discussion, queer intimacy on film has historically necessitated deep coding and subtextual theming to convey representation. While contemporary queer film has seen significant bounds in this regard, the long canon of coded queer intimacy has remained a staple of queer storytelling. Among the most commonly coded activities is eating, ostensibly a quotidian task with romantic and even sensual connotations depending on the people involved- thus the discussion of this scene. In the act of presenting Aziraphale with a plate of food, Crowley takes on an introductory and mentor-like role, stewarding Aziraphale into an experience familiar to himself but novel to his companion. Aziraphale reacts in a manner of initial repulsion at the temptation, to concession to his desire and curiosity, to performance of expected disgust, and finally to uninhibited indulgence. Beat-by-beat, this sequence in the cellar follows the rhythm of an experienced queer person guiding someone’s “first time”. Notably, this scene is intense and invokes a strange sense of voyeuristic discomfort, but remains a non-sexual display of intimacy, adhering to many fans’ (myself included) interpretation of Aziraphale and Crowley as asexual and exploring what non-sexual modes of intimacy look like. As Aziraphale eats, Crowley holds the plate and watches with a smug smile on his face– Aziraphale has accepted and is now joyously partaking in the nonconformist behavior he discovered long ago.

Even beyond this particular scene, the pairing’s frequent outings are frequently justified by a “temptation” to lunch, dinner, or a drink often initiated by Aziraphale (e.g. Aziraphale “tempting” Crowley to try oysters in Rome, and Aziraphale “tempting” Crowley to “a spot of lunch” after switching back corporations as the most explicit examples). As such, the act of eating remains an act of intimacy between the two, if nothing more than a pretense to spend more time in each other’s company while hiding their true sentiments from Above and Below.

[olderthannetfic]

The problem is I feel like people on tumblr would misuse it even harder than they do queerbaiting for shit like LoK that was genuinely trying to get around censors because its so contextual.

LoK was not trying to get around censors. That is 100% not what happened, and it is galling to me that Bryke get so much credit for LoK tripping on its face so creators who actually gave a shit about queer rep and trying to make it clear in their work could walk and then run, because they... didn't actually do a single goddamn thing.

And they admitted as much!

Korrasami was not why LoK was getting jerked around by Nickolodeon. By the time Bryke even thought about asking if they could make K/A 'endgame', Book 4 was almost completed and they quite literally had nothing left to lose. (This was admitted in the infamous 'Korrasami is Canon' post, where they said they hadn't even considered the possibility that they'd be allowed until the show was nearly finished.) They did nothing to develop the relationship or even their friendship throughout Books 3 and 4--allegedly the time in which they'd decided to make it canon, if you actually believe them about that and I sincerely do not--and it's especially grating in Book 4 where there was ample opportunity to at least make it clear that this relationship was important, whatever form it might take, to the people creating the show.

(People still make fun of the 'popping the biggest bottles' poster to this day, but it was Mako's relationship with Korra that formed the emotional pillar of the final season, particularly as it related to Korra's own character arc, so of course it would have been the natural conclusion to draw that this was where their story was heading. The only reason it seems so ridiculous in hindsight is because Bryke gambled on the fact that making K/A canon would distract from all the very valid criticisms their show had been getting to that point--and they were right. The fandom has bent over backwards ever since to make it seem like this was some groundbreaking moment in animation history that Bryke had to fight Nickolodeon to get on the air.)

There's no evidence (not even their own attempts at ass-covering) that Bryke tried for anything more than the five second shot of hand-holding at the very end of the season. They had nothing left to lose, and still all they bothered to do was ask--and by Bryan's own words in the blog post he wrote, the studio was supportive, but 'there was a limit to how far [they] could go with it'. Nothing about trying to push that limit or argue for a more unambiguous ending. They should not be put up on a pedestal as if they fought to put queer rep in their show when they evidently couldn't even be bothered to write halfway decent friendships, despite ostensibly having quite a bit of experience from working on the original show.

And I refuse to forgive them for the terrible writing that spanned the entire show, just because they decided to make a half-assed effort and queer rep in the very last seconds of the very last season.

--

[verdemoun]

did the gang find out about macsummers in modern or canon times?

i have given up on answering asks in order i answer asks in order of the giggles they give me

the girlies of the gang all knew in canon era. karen, mary-beth, jenny, and tilly were all actively shipping them and directly responsible for sean realizing lenny was actually flirting with him. god knows if sean would have ever connected the dots in either era without them (to be fair lenny was flirting in that 19th century 'could be murdered in the street if he was outed' and spending adolescence in reform school did not help sean in learning how to understand subtext and contextual clues)

also please imagine lenny 19th century educated man flirting. thinking he's so smooth laying it on maybe a little too thick teaching sean to read starting with the happy prince, sean mentions it offhandedly to mary-beth who proceeds to choke on her coffee because She Knows

lenny and sean being together was such a core part of the quartet's dynamic that when lenny found jenny in modern era and said 'and sean's here too' jenny let out a sigh of relief because she was not putting up with lenny's lenny-ness on her own before going 'no oops that sounded fucked i'm super sad he died but also yay sean's here'

hosea is just side-eyeing them suspiciously for a few weeks because "HMM they seem awful co-dependent in a way i had not noticed in canon era. maybe it's trauma bonding? maybe they're clinging to their friendship more than they did in canon era to cope with oh god damn us all they're fucking aren't they"

bessie just tilts her head slightly in confusion "darling i know you were slightly distracted at the time but did you not see the way they embraced when they saw each other? i am almost certain this is not a new occurrence"

also shoutout to bessie who despite being a 50+ year old history lecturer who no one would expect to be in the know she very politely sat the boys (and her husband) down powerpoint presentation style to explain modern era queer lexicon like for the love of all that is holy please do not use the terms sodomite or pederast they have CHANGED MEANING (the term homosexuality wasn't considered popularized in america until 1906 like she would have had to explain... so much)

arthur was very confused because look he's a little behind the 8 ball at times and just assumed karen and sean + lenny and jenny would become things, moreso than actually taking issue with anyone's sexuality. they obviously all suffer from heteronormativity

and of course how much identities and terminology changed from 1999 to 2011 (when most of the gang got there) lenny spent a good two years unironically identifying as moronsexual

sean's dyslexic ass having to learn the acronyms he thought BLTs were gay sandwiches for weeks pray for him (he still calls them gay sandwiches in private and they are a staple of the macsummers household)

it took so long to get used to gay meaning queer instead of happy. still slip up and say they're feeling gay when someone asks how they're going then backpedaling wait no well yes but you didn't need to know that i Was in a great mood

most of the gang didn't really react - they ALL knew about hosea and dutch 'reading' in canon era so if it was going to be an issue it would have come up then. just 'oh cool good for you guys what the hell is with miniature moving picture box in the house are we rich'

bill was the only one who even questioned it? looking at all these same-sex couples discreetly wondering aloud if in the future it was the norm ('without' a hint of optimism in his voice) because i, the author, accidentally made them all very not cishet

maeve at the tender age of 4 looked this bear of a man in the eyes and called him a faggot (she picked it up from the gang using it affectionately)

bill had no idea what that meant but he did know it was something at his expense

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

5, 16, 20?

Linking the original ask post cause it took some digging to find it again lol

Something you see in fics a lot and love:

B-boysss... kissing :3

lol okay uh the overwhelming majority of what I read is jaytim that's rated Explicit, so there's, ya'know, a lot of patterns in there that I've self selected for, but attempting to get into a more meaningful answer, I really like the way that fanfic repeatedly digs up old shit and uses it as a catalyst for characters to gain greater intimacy with each other. The constant reinvention and re-contextualization of Jason and Tim's various fights is neat to me

A tiny detail in canon that you want more people to appreciate:

Oooh I'm gonna throw up the post I already made about the guy Jason manipulated into playing puppet for him

But that feels like cheating so I also want people to appreciate the asymmetrical aspects of the OG spoiler outfit, because I adore it so. I am a SUCKER for shoulder pads/spikes and 80s asymmetrical outfits.

Your very first fandom:

That's... actually pretty hard to answer.

The first online community I truly got involved with is City of Heroes. Loved playing the game when it was live, and I role played in the Homecoming servers for fourteen hours a day, seven days a week, for about five years. I still play every once in a while too! If you see Dread Captain Bones, David Drakal, or Cowboy Cline around, those are me :3 The only issue I have with saying it's this one is that I'm not entirely sure this counts as a fandom?? It really is more a role playing community than anything like a fandom for the game itself, most people only very lightly engage with the setting and it's considered a tad crass to get any of the named canonical characters involved with your character's story lines.

We could very technically count Naruto simply because that was the first one I ever tried to find fanfic for but uhhhhh... I started with ff.net with a super dark E rated fic because I thought E meant for Everyone and bounced off it so hard. I'm very sorry geisha AU naru-sasu fic I read when I was like thirteen, I tried so hard to like you, but my PTSD was not having it lmao

There's also half decent arguments to be made for Marvel comics, Doctor Who, or Vampire the Masquerade simply because my parents are/were such massive nerds lmao

Both of them did a lot of LARP and one of my favorite pictures of my mom is her as either the Sheriff or the Prince of our city ripping someone's heart out via a sponge soaked with fake blood :3 so yeah I def grew up learning about the clans and the lore and such

And this is very much a Marvel household lol My parents used to do story time with me about the X-men, and like they are completely accepting of my metal head and queer stuff, but I feel like it hurts my dad's soul just a little bit that I ended up being so into DC and so uninterested in Marvel. Whenever we talk about some of my (not romance related) plotlines for my DC fics he'll substitute in vaguely equivalent Marvel characters because he simply cannot be asked to dedicate braincells to DC characters lmao

Me: "I'm really looking forwards to writing out how the super geniuses and stuff push the limits of what Jason and Tim did to the diseases."

My Dad, knowing FULL WELL that I am not including any Marvel characters in this fic: "Oh yeah, Reed Richards would go nuts trying to figure that shit out."

My dad also collected Doctor Who episodes, like the ones from 1963 all the way to modernity, I grew up watching the black and white stuff, and for sure tumblr did expose me to Superwholock, through I never felt like I was a part of that.

It might actually be DC comics itself that's my first fandom! I just never really interacted with any sort of online or fandom space directly until Boostle dragged me into DC fandom's sphere of influence.

Anyhow I hope my ramblings were interesting/entertaining and thank you muchly for the ask! :3

[selchwife]

lgbt terminology is annoying in fic for a game like ffxiv. I don’t mean other people using it but trying to figure out what would be appropriate in my own writing myself. it’s all deeply predicated on cultural context and there’s seldom little basis for envisioning that in canon, if any.

and it’s like, these are things that can be spoken about without specialized vocabulary to some extent, but being queer itself is just as highly contextual, so trying to delve into like “how would a trans man in this setting express that he’s trans or explain what he feels” gets frustrating. Emet is even tougher bc like, I DO have an idea of how he would view his gender and sexuality in irl terms, but how to express that? i at LEAST imagine that he didn’t start out this way in the unsundered world bc he was very intently closeted, so his identity as a queer person is probably more deeply rooted in the context of sundered societies than not. but even then, with his being immortal and not a “true” member of those societies, it’d feel odd for him to, for example, claim that he’s an [insert garlean equivalent of f slur here] in his heart and soul — like, he’s not garlean. entirely. ykwim? but then i guess the point of emet is that the masks he wears do persist, even should he claim otherwise, so.

and anyway like im sure it would not be be odd to anyone if i were to import modern terminology to apply to these concepts (the word trauma being used in a psychological context in recent msq was pretty jarring to me, but that’s an example of one such precedent). i don’t want to spend a bunch of time inventing new words that carry less meaning, either. it’s just one of those things where it becomes difficult to speak about queerness in a way that feels grounded for the setting, and i can’t even go the way of c&w and avail myself of the actual historical research bc this is a fantasy setting where queerness is at best an afterthought

[queer-as-used-by-tolkien]

hey if you are a GW2 follower who has watched this blog go from 'GW2 AND TRAHEARNE MY BELOVED' to various things including psychology/child development, Christianity, and a very light (I hope lol) touch of politics now and then, and don't want to hear it? bc I know my non-GW2 opinions are. uhm. queer (as used by Tolkien), weird unusual or just make you uncomfortable (and I know I don't tag very well, sorry) - if you're wondering where all the GW2 stuff went, then I have news!

I just posted chapter 3 of my fic over on @skaald-of-the-hearth-fires and that's probably where most of my GW2 energy will be focused going forward. (if this post gets a positive response or I see y'all migrating over, I may just shift all GW2 energy over there, including reblogs and stuff not necessarily related to the actual fic. so that might just be my gw2 sideblog.)

ANYWAY if those are ideas y'all like then pls smash the 'like' button and give skaald a follow lol.

and the fic is... well for now it's a Logan stan fic that 1) stays in character (i.e. isn't canon-breaking), 2) contextualizes his obsession with Jennah, and 3) shows how awesome he is anyway. I consider it an achievement. Oh and yeah it follows pre-S3 lore where Jennah loves him back (yeah S3 retconned that. I've changed it from a retcon to - well, that would be spoilers. actually it wouldn't be because by the time this fic gets to S3... uhh... we have to get past Mordremoth for that bc it was Mordy's death that kicked off the Bloodstone that kicked off the White Mantle stuff that kicked off the Lazarus/Balthazar stuff that kicked off PoF, and let's just say... I'm anticipating we never get around to that. we'll see ig but I have probably an IRL decade's worth of stuff planned before I get there. anyway the headcanon is that Jennah had reasons for changing her mind, and Logan totally deserved it, but that's a whole separate post. storyline or character study or smth) ANYWAY THE FIC IS ABOUT LOGAN IN THE PRESENT-DAY. I also have some Rytlock stuff planned but have been questioning the point of it. (I'll probably include it as, like, side stories and not part of the main fic at least, lol)

[ectonurites]

I see a flashback to Tim and Cassie kissing and I’m just like yes the trauma of missing your shared dead boyfriend

NO FOR REAL like.

for context, this was in the previews we got this week:

(Preview for Dark Crisis: Young Justice #1)

Revisiting these moments now, in the aftermath of Tim realizing he's bi, written by the same person who wrote that revelation... I think could be utterly fascinating. Especially because Meghan Fitzmartin had even referenced Kon's death during Tim's coming out story:

(Batman: Urban Legends #5)

Like, knowing that Fitzmartin is about to be digging into this group's history and specifically stuff around Infinite Crisis/in the aftermath of Kon's death... that line feels way more intentional now than it originally seemed when this released.

When I first saw this line, my interpretation was basically "Kon is commenting on how Tim wanted him back so badly when he was gone (Kon knows about the cloning attempts and how Tim & Cassie tried to find comfort in each other, I think the only thing he doesn't know about is the close call with the Lazarus Pit water in Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul), yet now that he is back after another situation he'd been lost- Tim's kinda ignoring him... which is making him worried that something's wrong," and I don't think that interpretation has changed. The thing that now has a slightly new light shone on it imo is maybe why this line was included at all.

After the Gotham Outsiders podcast interview shortly after UL #6 came out, in which Fitzmartin had compared Steph & Kon's respective importance & history irt Tim:

[starting from 22:48] Interviewer: Soooo- my boy Conner Kent- [laughter] Can we hear this- In your Urban Legends story, and he and Tim have a complicated history of being read as queer coded, was any of this running through your mind while writing their interaction Fitzmartin: I mean, I’ve-I’ve seen the internet. I’ve-I’m aware. I’m aware that the internet exists. Umm… Interviewer: [overlapping] Alright Fitzmartin: K-Ya know. Conner is part of Tim’s history just like Stephanie is part of Tim’s history in-in varying different degrees in varying different ways but, um, we are who those around us- we are what others around us are- ma-uh- make us to be. And. so. Interviewer: Right- Fitzmartin: [overlapping] I’ll leave it at that- Interviewer: That’s a fair- fair answer, I will take it.

I had mainly just (realistically) seen it's inclusion (on the same page as his scene with Steph) as... part of showing that closeness between them, and specifically including something with a connection to their newly restored pasts to acknowledge their history, and figured I was just reading way more into it than was intended (which admittedly I definitely still am).

But now that we know Fitzmartin's going to be addressing that exact period of time at least a little bit... It does just feel more intentional that she brought up Kon's death specifically. I think the odds just now feel a bit higher of seeing unpacked some of the dynamics behind what happened in the aftermath of Kon's death that we as fans have often seen as present (the parallels between how Cassie was feeling about Conner and how Tim was feeling about Conner) but that were never like officially canonically said to be there. Not a sure thing of course, but it just feels a lot more possible that it'll be addressed now.

Plus, ya know, Fitzmartin did establish he's "always kind of known" he was attracted to boys, but just hadn't had the brain space to reach that point of "personal enlightenment"

(Batman: Urban Legends #10)

So basically what I'm saying is that Dark Crisis: Young Justice could be a place where we get that statement expanded on a bit, and get some of Tim's previous actions re-contextualized now that he's had this revelation. Who knows! I'm just... utterly fascinated by what we have coming down the line now.

[sixstepsaway]

okay but mary and izzy parallels? i have a hunch about how they're supposed to -- well, be parallels. but no one's talking about it. thoughts? - ripple

hi ripple!! hope you're doing well!

There has been discussion of Mary/Izzy parallels but I haven't found a lot of meta about it. If you'd like to really be agonized, check out this gifset. Izzy and Ed with Mary's quotes over them. Mm. Pain.

But, as for my own thoughts on this:

Izzy and Mary are deeply paralleled throughout the show, both narratively (similar journeys) and contextually (the way the show is edited).

The first time this is really shown, as far as I can tell, is in 1x04. Stede is dreaming of Mary, remembering his highly failed marriage. He's dreaming of when he showed her the model ship of the Revenge, how passionate he was about it, how much he loved the idea of going away to sea. Mary's response is... not great, as she doesn't like the ocean and doesn't hate their lives, at least not as much as Stede does.

She doesn't get it.

The show immediately swaps to Ed rummaging through the Revenge while Izzy trails around after him trying to get him to focus on their lives. Ed produces the model ship and gushes about how cute it is.

Izzy doesn't get it.

The model ship is purposefully used to draw the two scenes together, to show Stede and Ed in their respective relationships (Stede with his rapidly failing and then abandoned marriage, Ed with his rapidly degenerating and soon to be abandoned work marriage (see: Izzy leaving in 1x06 and Ed leaving in 1x09)).

It's a fascinating parallel that I especially enjoy because Ed and Izzy aren't, in canon right now at least, in a sexual or romantic relationship, nor do we think right now they've ever been (I doubt they've ever been, truly. I don't think that's in their past at all), so the framing of Stede's marriage (lacking love and affection) against Izzy and Ed's platonic* relationship (full of love and affection but it's diminishing faster and faster every day) is gorgeous, because it shows that relationships aren't always the standard Person A + Person B in love and married and then they fell out of it and it was Bad because of that.

(*Yes, David Jenkins says Izzy is in love with Ed, and we all agree with him, but for the sake of the framing, the fact they're not doing anything with those feelings makes the relationship itself platonic)

I find in a lot of media, relationships are shown only as participating in the relationship escalator and no other relationships "count", and queer relationships are pushed into that same relationship escalator because enforcing heteronormativity even on queer relationships is essential (blah blah purity culture blah blah making being queer palatable to corporations blah blah sanitizing the queer movement blah blah)

(I remember when Chicago Fire did a storyline where Severide lost his best friend (who I'm pretty sure he was in love with, but she was a lesbian, and i digress) to an accident that took her life and he was absolutely destroyed by it. He ran off for a weekend in Vegas, where he met a woman who had recently lost her husband suddenly. They got drunk, got married, and he brought her home as his new wife and everyone flipped out because it seemed so stupid and she was surely not good and was playing him for a fool or something.

But in the end, they were married for a few months, never in love, but their brief relationship helped them both heal and they ended up going their separate ways. And I loved that, because not all break-ups or divorces have to be "failures", and not all relationships have to march up the endless escalator.)

It's nice to see a relationship posed in a way that isn't just the escalator and isn't just "oh yeah we dated once" or whatever. This is beside the point though lmao.

The contextual framing continues when Ed returns to the Revenge as well. Stede goes back to Mary, Ed goes back to Izzy. They go back to the familiar, the safe, and they're not greeted the way they'd like.

Mary makes sure Stede knows he's unwelcome now, though it's not because he's changed (although he has: drinking, attacking Doug etc) so much as that he left a gap and she filled it with someone else (someone better, in fact, for her, someone who can give her what she wants and needs and love her) in his absence (as she should).

Izzy meanwhile welcomes Ed back with open arms, but can't cope with his changes. Ed is softer, more vulnerable and open, and maybe if that had been how he was when they first met, that might have been okay. Izzy might have wormed his way into that vulnerability and made a nest there, a safe place for himself and a bit of armor for Ed, but as it stands right now he can't do that, because he doesn't know how and nor does Ed, and so instead he wants Ed to go back to how things were in the past.

But you can never go home again, can you?

That's sort of the base message of 1x10 imo: you can never go home again. Stede can't pursue his life of piracy and expect his family to welcome him home with open arms, and Ed can't soften up and abandon his life of piracy and expect Izzy to just adapt overnight and accept that new version of him.

(And it's unreasonable of either of them to expect those things from the other person. Izzy didn't sign up for a life with soft-n-squishy Ed, and Mary didn't sign up to be the woman waiting at port for her wayward husband to come home whenever he chooses.)

Narratively, Mary and Izzy are mirrored throughout the first season, primarily with Izzy and Mary being fully committed to the lives they've signed up for. Mary may be unhappy, but she tells Stede as much: she doesn't hate their lives, not enough to yeet them into the abyss, but they're the only lives they're going to get and this is their lot, so shouldn't they make the best of it?

Izzy might be struggling too, but he clings to Ed like a lifeline at all times, refusing to budge even when Ed's mental state gets so rickety he puts everyone around him in danger.

The difference is that when Stede leaves Mary, she flourishes. She finds someone better for her, she takes up painting, she loves her children without hesitation, she makes friends and extends her social circle. When Izzy is forced to leave Ed, he stagnates and his entire focus is on getting Ed back and keeping that promise he made, even if Ed doesn't want it kept anymore.

Mary and Izzy are on the same path, but Mary is miles ahead of him. Since I don't think we'll get Steddyhands or Blackhands in canon, I hope Izzy gets to reach the end of the path like Mary did, with someone who loves and deserves him, and a social circle that supports him.

Then, you have the main issue with Ed and Stede: lack of real communication, and massive failure whenever they try.

Stede tried when he told Mary he wanted to run away to sea, but she shot him down (fairly so, in my eyes), and so he never tried again.

Ed tries when he tells Izzy how bored he is, but Izzy is focused on the fact Ed's boredom is going to get them killed (fairly so, again), so Ed doesn't talk to him about how he's feeling about Stede in relation to that boredom.

Both of them talk around what they're actually feeling and considering doing, neither of them really talk about the problem and try to find a solution they just wildly yank the other person around like a dog with a toy, because they've always been there, so won't they continue to always be there?

I read Stede as having had a certain level of reliance on Mary. I believe they could be really good friends now their marriage is over, though I don't think they were before lmao. But the way wives were expected to act and be treated in 1717 implies she was likely doing most of the household work, raising the children etc. We don't ever see any servants I don't think, even in the background of the current day scenes in 1x10, and that makes me think Mary does most of it.

Which explains a lot about why Stede is a fucking mess when he first breaks free of that life and it reframes how he is as honestly how well he adapts and changes to fit in his new life! Assuming we go by Ed's, "these last few weeks" and assume the show to be about 10 weeks because of the season length (which I hate, thanks), he managed to stop being a complete mess in about five weeks and that's damn impressive. Kudos and cookies to Stede Bonnet.

I read Stede as autistic with some social deficits, which is why he's so... blunt, I suppose? It's also why he takes everyone around him at face value (if they say something is a way, he believes them, no matter whether they might be lying). I can imagine that during his marriage, Mary - who I do not read as autistic - was the one gingerly keeping him from being scammed or robbed or overtly lied to by people around him, and now he doesn't have her so he just has to learn for himself! And he does really well actually at that.

See also: him believing Pete about his prior time serving under Blackbeard. I too believe Pete, but let's not act like his stories don't sound like utter fabrications. Stede just... believing him, that Blackbeard has a head made of smoke and his eyes glow and that Pete served under him and was dubbed Black Pete for serving so well.

(Also, I know there's a running fandom joke about Pete calling himself Black Pete considering he's pasty white, but you've all realized it's a direct reference to Blackbeard right? He's saying Ed gave him the moniker of Black to echo his own!)

Meanwhile, as we've said before, Izzy has been shackled with being Ed's SSRIs, adderall and bullet journal for god knows how long, frankly, and without him Ed... does struggle. We don't see a lot of it because he has the Revenge crew filling the blanks and his fixation on Stede is also keeping him from sinking back into depression, but it's definitely there. He's supposedly acting as a co-captain in 1x07, but they run out of oranges. Calico Jack shows up and he just attaches to him like a barnacle and doesn't track that maybe he's being insensitive. It takes Lucius giving him a stern talking to twice for him to figure his shit out, and that's without any real dire consequences going on around him.

He also jumps right to running away to China which is objectively not a great plan for him or Stede, and Izzy absolutely would have said, "The fuck? You don't even speak Mandarin, Edward." to it.

He does okay without Izzy, likely because he's had more practice, but he definitely misses something that he's been reliant on Izzy for: a steadying hand and someone who spots the details he misses (like not knowing Mandarin and it being a leap year).

But whereas Mary gets loose of those shackles, Izzy desperately tries to get back into them because he doesn't know how to function without Edward and, frankly, Edward doesn't know how to function without Izzy either, not now his dopamine fix has run away.

When Mary tries to kill Stede when he comes back and ruins her life, Stede and Mary instead come up with a plan together to fix things, to set both of them free. They communicate, which allows them to work together, in a rather perfect harmony actually, and understand each other's needs and learn to care for one another outside of the shackles.

When Izzy tries to 'kill' this new version of Edward that's ruining his life (literally trying to un-pirate them all), Ed strikes out in return. Instead of working together, they break apart and fracture, two forces with differing needs that can't find a middle ground because the communication has broken down.

Like I say: Izzy and Mary are on the same road, but Mary is far further down than Izzy is.

The parallels truly kill me but they also give me some hope for the future when it comes to Izzy.

Currently Mary is 'best case scenario' and Izzy is 'oh my god what the fuck WORST CASE WORST CASE??? PUT THE SCISSORS DOWN EDWARD' but hey, maybe we can get there!

[themagnuswriters]

Asexuality in Fic Roundtable - What We Like

How do I write a convincing asexual character in a fic?  Is there a way to address a character’s sexuality outside the context of sex or coming out?  Can a story feature a character's asexuality aside from exploring the negative aspects of the asexual experience?  It’s usually not too hard to find lists of what not to do when writing asexual characters, but much more difficult to find the opposite.

The asexual members of The Magnus Writers discord gathered to discuss their favorite ways to incorporate the day-to-day details of asexual peoples’ experiences into fiction.  We also discussed depictions that we’ve enjoyed in the past, or would love to see more of.  Note that this isn’t an Asexuality 101 resource, so if you don’t feel familiar with the basics, feel free to check out the resources we will link in the reblog of this post.

This conversation included a variety of ace-spectrum people from multiple countries, including both arospec and non-aro people, various genders, and varying relationships to sex and sexual content.  Just like all asexual people are different, the things that we enjoy reading are far from universal.  Some tropes/details brought up as favorites can vary widely--for example, “innuendo completely flies over their head” vs. “they understand but are completely unfazed by innuendo.”  Additionally, some aces love tropes that others would prefer to avoid: for instance some enjoy discussions of physical boundaries to be included in the fic, and some prefer that to be established as happening in the past.  

The examples brought up in our discussion are also far from comprehensive, and can be seen as the beginning of an endless list of possible ways to write asexual characters.  Some examples given are specific to the Magnus Archives, but can apply to any writing.  Take these as inspiration and a way to broaden your understanding of who we are and what we like to see!

ASEXUALITY IN YOUR SETTING

When writing a story including asexual characters, one of your first considerations may be for how asexuality is contextualized within your setting:  Is it fully normalized and accepted?  Does it reflect real-world stigmas?  How is asexuality treated by the narrative and the other characters?  Contributors showed interest in a variety of approaches on this front, with no single approach being worth more than other:

Fics including negative real-world experiences

These would include fics in a realistic setting, where characters may struggle with internalized acephobia, stigma, social pressure, microaggressions, dysphoria, and so on.  This isn’t limited to just “issue fic,” where the focus of the fic is about examining and confronting a struggle, but rather encompasses anything that includes this consideration in its worldbuilding and characterization.  While brighter settings can be refreshing, contributors described reasons why this kind of fic appeals to them:

Feeling seen: Reading about ace characters whose experiences reflect their own

Feeling validated:  Being exposed to only stories where there are no issues on this front can feel like we’re the only one facing these struggles.  It can be extremely cathartic to read something and think “I thought I was the only person who went through this.”

Exploring improvement/hope:  From ace characters learning to accept themselves or other characters making mistakes and accepting correction, these can be validating and encouraging.

On top of ace readers finding worth in these fics, the act of writing the fic can also be very cathartic for many ace authors.

There is a lot of variety for how these fics can be written, such as:

Stories that focus on the negative experience

Stories where that experience is just part of the setting or characterization

The character(s) getting external support and validation

The character facing mixed dismissiveness, acceptance, prejudice, etc. from different people

The story resolving in a way where the situation is resolved: for instance, cutting off an acephobic relationship, or someone apologizing for a microaggression.

Stories where well-meaning characters are accidentally insensitive about asexuality, but learn better and change their behavior

The character confronting or overcoming an internal struggle

Stories where the issues aren’t fully resolved by the end, such as an insecurity not fully going away.

Negative asexual experiences don’t have to be the focus of a fic to be acknowledged. While “issue fics” that closely examine and explore these experiences are valuable, contributors also described enjoying stories that included them as simply an element of the worldbuilding or characterization.  For instance, a story may reference Jon having bad past relationship experiences; facing assumptions that he’s having sex if he’s in a relationship; having moments of insecurities about his sexuality; etc.

Please note that writing negative ace experiences needs to be handled sensitively; fics of this type should definitely be tagged appropriately.  For brief references, consider including author’s note warnings on the appropriate chapter (e.g. “asexual character assumed to be having sex”).  Having an asexual sensitivity reader--particularly one of a type that corresponds with what you’re writing (i.e. sex-neutral, gray-ace, sex-repulsed, etc)--is very much encouraged.

Fics where asexuality is normalized

In contrast, there is just as much interest in stories that avoid all of these issues, and fully normalize asexuality.  Contributors described how they enjoy stories where ace characters are allowed to just exist, without big important conversations or small othering details that depict asexual identities as less than fully accepted.

These can be included in any type of fic, but a few of the suggested details for how to normalize asexuality in a setting include:

A character being already out and accepted:  For instance, Martin already knowing about Jon’s asexuality from early seasons.

Characters in the fic already knowing what asexuality is without needing it explained to them

Having more than one character be asexual:  We aren’t confined to writing only canon characters as ace!  This not only goes the extra mile in normalizing asexuality, but it gives the chance to include more of the ace spectrum.

If you’re aiming for asexuality to be normalized, please consider whether it makes sense for your asexual character to be anxious about coming out or discussing boundaries.  There is a world of difference between someone responding to an ace character coming out with “I fully support you” and responding with “you’re an idiot for thinking we wouldn’t support you.”  This is a common and easy pitfall to fall into, but the result is often less escapism and more a message of “your struggles aren’t real, and you’re stupid for thinking they are.”

Asexuality in Metaphor

Some contributors mentioned wanting to read settings where asexuality itself is normalized, but the issues facing aces could be explored on a metaphorical level.  This falls somewhere in between the ideas of realistic or idealized settings as regards the ace experience, and could allow that exploration with a layer of distance.  Ideas relating to this included fantasy settings with different kinds of magic.

PERSONALITY AND CHARACTERIZATION

The experience of being asexual isn’t something just limited to a relationship with sex: it can be shown in many ways, such as how a character relates to themselves, other people, media, and society.  Like any other queer identity, it affects many aspects of our lives and informs a great deal about us as people.  These little details don’t even need to be presented in a blunt “this is because this character is asexual” way--they can be little relatable notes for your ace readers, while not coming across in a “this is how all ace people are” way.

We’ve seen the question “how do I write a character as asexual, if I’m not planning on having someone ask them for sex or writing a coming-out scene?” many times.  Our contributors were excited to share a wide variety of ideas for this from things they’ve read, written, or experienced:

Ace confusion

Not to be confused with the infantilizing “doesn’t know what sex is” approach, this could involve things like:

Being confused over what sexual attraction is: difficulty defining what they don’t experience.

Difficulty describing to others what lack of sexual attraction is: this is their default, and it can be difficult to contrast it to what they don’t experience.

Thinking that others describing sexual attraction or interest is just exaggeration

“Wait, that’s what you mean when you say ‘hot’?  I just thought it meant they’re gorgeous.”

“You mean meeting someone and being instantly sexually interested in them is a real thing, and not just a movie trope?”

The Absurdity of How Society Views Sex

The jarring dissonance between asexual experiences and the norms in society and media can cause a lot of alienation and dysphoria in aces, but often it hits a point of feeling like a joke is being played on you.  Contributors offered ideas for how this could be illustrated through a character:

Reading “How to Spice Up Your Love Life” articles out of pure morbid curiosity

Taking the most ridiculous Cosmo sex life article as How Everyone Thinks (and being concerned)

Having an allo friend or partner they can ask about whether any of it is legitimate advice (this one was brought up by a lot of people as a common ace experience)

An ADHD/autistic character getting a special interest or hyperfixation on societal views on sex or sexual practices, and pursuing it as purely a matter of research with no interest in participating

“Why do they keep bringing up ice cubes?  Georgie, stop laughing, I am a researcher and a scholar.”

Needing to teleport out of the room if a sex scene comes up in a movie

Not minding the sex scenes, but needing to make fun of them or point out impracticalities

“On the beach?  But sand is everywhere?  Wait, they think getting sand everywhere is hot??”

Being baffled at what’s considered sexy: for example, Jon being baffled at “wet clothes are sexy,” having grown up by the beach and associating them with being terribly uncomfortable

Of course, asexual characters don’t need to be framed like they constantly need to learn about things from allo people--sometimes the reverse can be a fun twist.  One reversal, for example, could be an ace person helping their allo friend parse whether their attraction to someone is simply sexual or also romantic.

Aces vs. flirting

While not specifically connected to sexual attraction, how a character interacts with flirting can very much demonstrate the asexual experience.  Contributors discussed a variety of their own experiences, and details they’ve enjoyed reading for ace characters:

Having difficulty distinguishing between different kinds of draws to people--is it romance?  Friendship?  

Having difficulty picking up on whether or not someone is interested in them

Failing to realize they’re flirting or being flirted with

Enjoying flirting as just a fun thing to do without any particular goal (a popular suggestion for a Tim ace headcanon)

Casually flirting but then backing off if it becomes “real”

Several examples were given of scenarios these could be used for Jon:

Jon’s dry prickliness stemming from wanting to avoid people thinking he’s flirting or showing interest in them, not being sure where others judge the line between “flirting” or “being nice.”  

Jon deciding he is going to make an effort to be more friendly to people, and awkwardly starts showering others with compliments; some of them interpret it as flirting and it’s very confusing.

Jon (or Martin) being overly dramatic or romantic when purposefully showing interest in someone, drawing from a basis of books or media rather than social experience.

Aces vs. hotness

We might use the word “hot” excessively, but ace people often have their own understanding of the word (and are often surprised to learn what others mean by it).  Contributors brought up the following ideas for this area:

Using “hot” as an expression of “gorgeous to look at,” and being confused to learn that others use it as a sexual expression.

Engaging with “are they hot” conversations based purely on aesthetics, or other impressions like “would they give good hugs.”

Focusing on seemingly random physical details, like wrists or eyebrow shape, over more commonly sexualized ones.

Being confused over the criteria others use for hotness.  Example:  Jon’s reaction to “the hot one” comment.

Finding fictional characters not represented by a real person “hot” (e.g. from books, podcasts, video games with bad graphics, etc)

Using the words “hot” and sexy” for completely nonsexual things.  Several contributors described being told they couldn’t be ace if they called anything hot/sexy, and then doing it more out of spite.

Being completely unfazed by innuendo or sex/nudity:  For example, Jon’s calm response vs. Martin being flustered at Tim stripping

This is also an area where a story can establish the nature of their relationship with those around them: if a character is comfortably out as not being interested in sex, for instance, you can show that others around them support that by making their conversations more inclusive. For example, a “fuck, marry, kill” game with modified categories, or a “who would you have sex with” conversation changed to a “who would you have dinner with” one once the ace character enters.  

Aces vs. sexual humor

Ace people’s reactions to sexual humor can vary as much as the reactions to flirting.  Contributors described enjoying a broad range of these:

Aces who love sexual humor (not limited to sex-favorable aces)

Humor taking an angle of “sex is so strange, glad it isn’t real.”

Aces who are bored with or exhausted by sexual humor

Not finding sexual humor funny unless it’s also clever.  “Yes I know that’s a sexual reference...wait, it was meant to be funny?  Because it’s connected to sex?  ....I see.  Anyway.”

Bonus points if the “is that supposed to be funny because it’s sexual?” ace and the filthy humor ace are friends

It can even vary for the same person from setting to setting: someone may find making dirty jokes with a group of ace friends might be fun (see the “Absurdity of Sex” section above), but be very uncomfortable with someone else trying to twist something they said into something sexual.  There’s also the nature of the joke itself: a silly pun may be fine, but a joke implying the ace person is interested in sex or said something sexual without meaning to may be alienating.

For TMA, the general interpretation of Jon is that he’d be uncomfortable with sexual humor, which is relatable to a lot of asexual people, but contributors brought up other possibilities as well: for example, the idea of Jon liking clever wordplay so much that if it just so happens to include something sexual, it doesn’t feel odd to him--why do the others look so shocked?

Note:  A lot of asexual awareness posts insensitively treat the concept of aces who love filthy humor as more mature, more easygoing, less stereotypical, or otherwise superior to aces who are uncomfortable with sexual humor.  This is a very harmful attitude that looks down on a lot of asexual people, and adds a pressure to push past comfort levels to fit in and “avoid being a stereotype.”  Contributors loved reading stories that include flirty or filthy aces, but not when they take this tone.  A favorite suggestion was to include more than one ace character to depict a variety, while treating them as equally valid.

Somewhat related to this is ace people’s relationship to sexual euphemisms.  Contributors described their experiences or how they might write an ace character responding to these:

Being exhausted by how so many terms are considered euphemisms, or how any comment could be reframed as sexual.

Having a special annoyance when they accidentally stumble into or misunderstand a euphemism

Wanting to decouple euphemisms from their literal meaning: why does “spending the night” or “going home with someone” have to mean “having sex”?

In the same line, being very blunt and straightforward about making sexual references, because why dance around it?

Characterization Considerations

One discussion that is particularly relevant to The Magnus Archives is the idea of the “uptight nerd” ace persona.  It may sound strange to say, but there is some legitimacy in this characterization, but for different reasons than is stereotyped.  Many of us build up this persona while growing up--particularly in adolescence and early adulthood--to fend off uncomfortable social pressure, self-examination, or external criticism for why we relate to sex differently than our peers.  This often involves playing up certain defenses for discomfort for sex or dating:  “I don’t have time for any of that, I only have time for books and knowledge!”  Or, the adult version:  “I don’t have time for relationships, I’m married to my job!”  

Where this departs from the stereotype is that these are generally coping mechanisms or facades rather than the truth.  Asexuality isn’t “of course they don’t have time for sex, they’re obsessed with this or that”--but an asexual person who doesn’t feel comfortable in their environment, such as around work, school, or family, may deflect judgment with similar excuses.  Similar to this, some find it tempting to be antisocial or hostile on purpose to fend off interest in them or avoid sexual expectations.

This is, of course, far from the only way an ace character could be written.  For instance, if you wanted to write a setting where asexuality is more accepted, you could write Jon’s antisocial and closed-off tendencies as a result of being bullied from a very young age, while he is confident and secure in his asexuality.  Or for other characters: you could write Tim as someone who has enjoyed sexual relationships, but just thought everyone was exaggerating on the attraction side of things.

Intersection of Asexuality with Other Identities

Another characterization consideration is how asexuality intersects with other identities and experiences included in the fic.  Below are a few examples of many:

Asexuality and masculinity:  Social expectations of masculinity place a high emphasis on sexuality, particularly heterosexuality, treating sexual activity as a commodity or prize.  One possible reading of The Magnus Archives is Jon’s tendency to have closer and more numerous friendships with women connects to this.    

Asexuality and trans identities:  There is a significant overlap between aspec and trans identities, particularly nonbinary identities.  Based on an October 2020 study by the Trevor Project (see link in reblog), ace respondents were roughly 50% more likely to be trans (including nonbinary) than allo respondents.  Contributors described how they’ve felt things like “is this dysphoria I’m feeling a gender thing or an asexuality thing,” or how figuring out their asexuality helped them explore their gender.

Asexuality and race:  In combination with LGBTQ+ spaces often being white-dominated, people of color often face stereotypes that hypersexualize or desexualize them.  This can have a strong impact on people of color’s experience and self-perception as asexual.  For instance, if you are writing Jon as Indian, you could consider how this may have impacted his experiences in LGBTQ spaces in university.  As there is no ‘one size fits all’ experience for aces of color, we strongly recommend researching for the particular background you have in mind.  We will be adding resource links to our main page shortly, but in the meantime check out the links in the reblog of this post!

INTIMACY AND RELATIONSHIPS

One of the topics addressed in our discussion was how a character’s asexuality may impact their experiences with intimacy and romantic relationships. Contributors discussed ways to portray this in fic, whether or not it includes sex or even mentions it.

Physical Intimacy

Intimacy, sensuality, and sex are separate things that may or may not overlap depending on the individual.  Contributors discussed how, for people across the ace spectrum, the relationship between these three tends to differ from common societal frameworks or depictions of intimacy in fiction.

Enjoying physical intimacy without the expectation that it will become sexual: massages, falling asleep on top of each other, bathing together, etc.

This includes acts that would often be expected to “lead somewhere” but don’t, such as lots of touching or nude cuddling.

Craving closeness/touch completely outside of sexual drive

One scenario suggested for this topic is an asexual character discovering that without the worry that an act of intimacy will ‘lead somewhere,’ they enjoy something they used to get anxious about, such as sharing a bed or showering together.

Boundaries & Communication

Stories with an asexual character in a relationship often address physical boundaries within that relationship.  The below are some of the scenarios contributors have enjoyed:

People communicating over their sexual boundaries, rather than assuming what these are as soon as they hear the word “asexual.”

The boundaries discussion being framed as something that any couple in a fictional relationship should have, not just because one is asexual.

In relationships between allo and ace characters, the allo character having boundaries of their own, rather than just the ace character.

Normalizing boundaries discussions for allo couples as well.

Note:  If a boundaries discussion involves a sex-favorable ace character, take caution at the risk of having them sound offended or derisive that the discussion is happening (e.g. “What, I’m not a child” or “Not all aces are like that.”).  Enforcing the idea that people should assume their partner is sex-interested is extremely harmful to sex-disinterested aces.

Some contributors noted that they prefer fics where the boundaries discussion is something that has taken place in the past, rather than run through at the beginning of each fic they read.  In these cases, this past discussion could be illustrated in the interaction itself: a character’s awareness of what lines not to cross, the other’s confidence and trust that those boundaries will be respected, and so on.

Issues of Intimacy Outside of Sex

While aversion to sex is the most well-known dimension of asexuality, there are other aversions and boundaries that could apply to either ace or allo characters:

Ace characters that are kiss-averse and/or touch-averse:  This also works against the “They won’t have sex, but they’ll make up for that with kissing even more!” trope that implies asexual people have to compensate for a nonsexual relationship.

Allo characters with their own aversions or specific boundaries: suggestions included how this can apply to trans characters.

Fluctuations in levels of aversion (note: it is important to not treat increased aversion as “progress” or decreased aversion as “regression”)

In cases of fluctuating aversion, characters developing ways to communicate these levels, and responding appropriately.  For example, “Kissing is not on the table right now, let’s move on to something more comfortable.”

Contributors were excited to discuss how this area could particularly be used for the allo partner of an ace character, such as an allo Martin having difficulties with touch post-Lonely, or discovering that he doesn’t enjoy kissing.

Relationships to Sex (or Lack Thereof)

Asexuality ‘subtypes’ are terms many aces describe their personal relationship with sex and/or sexual content.  These are simplified self-descriptors rather than rigid categories or mini-sexualities, and the terms rarely encompass the full detail of that relationship.  Please note that the below discussion assumes a general familiarity with ace subtypes.

Needless to say, aces across the spectrum and of every subtype want to see their identities represented in fic.  The discussion focused on ways to illustrate those experiences, and details contributors would enjoy seeing:

Non-averse aces trying sex and deciding they have no interest in it: pushing back against the “if you’re not repulsed you’ll like and want sex” idea.

No expectation that “sex-favorable” means always interested in sex.

The pressure an ace person may face to oversimplify their relationship to sex or sexual content out of fear they’ll appear inconsistent or exaggerating:  “If I’m okay with this now, what if I’m not later?  Will I seem picky if I’m only comfortable with something in an extremely specific scenario?”

“Sex repulsion” and “sex aversion” generally are used to describe asexual people who don’t want sex, but are simplified terms for what can be immensely varied experiences.  Someone could be repulsed by physical involvement in sex, repulsed by personally engaging in anything sexual, repulsed by sexual content, repulsed by just the idea of sex--or any variation or combination of these.  There are even repulsions that could be part of more sex-interested subtypes: an ace who enjoys sex but is repulsed by nudity, or an ace who enjoys sexual activities with a partner but not being touched during them, etc.

Contributors discussed how much they enjoy reading simple “I just don’t want sex” approaches to aversion/repulsion, but also look forward to reading explorations such as:

Enjoying one specific type of engagement with sexual content or activity, but having an aversion to others.

Regularly varying levels of repulsion: Days of “please don’t remind me sex exists” to days of mild curiosity, for instance.

Aces with a relationship to sex that doesn’t involve another person, including if they’re in a relationship.

Fluidity between ace subtypes can fluctuate between sex-interested and sex-disinterested in both directions: it can be both “I said I wasn’t interested in this before, but let’s carefully revisit” and “I know we’ve been doing this, but I’m no longer comfortable with it.”  Contributors mentioned never having seen fic with the latter, and expressed an interest in reading stories exploring this.

On this note, it is common for stories of fluidity between subtypes to be only moving in a more sex-interested direction.  Many asexual people, particularly sex-averse aces, face immense pressure to ‘learn how to like sex,’ or have their sexuality erased by saying they’re a ‘late bloomer’ who will learn to like it later.  Depicting this direction should be done with great care and nuance, and we strongly recommend getting feedback from a sex-disinterested sensitivity reader for stories of this type.  It’s possible that an ace reader who isn’t sex-disinterested would miss or not be affected by something that is quite painful to sex-disinterested aces.

CONCLUSION

If you’ve stuck with us for this long, well done! We understand that such a long resource can be a bit overwhelming, but we hope it can show you the depth of variety and enthusiasm ace readers have for more ace content and inspire you further.  One thing we all had in common during our discussion was how excited we were to have a canonically asexual protagonist, and how thrilled we were to see content that explored his asexuality.  In putting together this resource, we hope that you are encouraged to write about characters whose asexuality impacts their experiences and the story in unique, thoughtful, and creative ways.  We can’t wait to see what you come up with!

[vickyvicarious]

Leverage Redemption Pros/Cons List

Okay! Now that I've finally finished watching the first half of Leverage: Redemption, I thought I'd kind of sum up my overall impression. Sort of a pro/con list, except a little more just loosely structured rambles on each bullet point rather than a simple list.

This got way out of hand from what I expected so I'm going to put it all under a cut. If you want the actual bulletpoint list, here it is:

PROS

References

Continuity

Nate

Representation

Themes

New Characters

General Vibe

CONS

'Maker and Fixer'

Episode Twins

Sophie's Stagefright

Thiefsome

You might notice the pros list is longer, and that's because I do love the show! I really like most of what it does, and my gripes are fewer in number and mostly smaller in size. But they do exist and I felt like talking about them as well as the stuff I loved.

PROS

References

There is clearly so much love and respect for the original show here. Quite aside from the general situation, there's a lot of references to individual episodes or character traits from the first show. For example, Parker's comments on disliking clowns, liking puppets, disliking horses, stabbing vs. tasing people. The tasing was an ongoing thing in the original, the stabbing happened once (S1) but was referenced later in the original show, the clown thing only had a few mentions scattered across the entire original show. The puppet thing was mentioned once in S5, and the horses thing in particular was only brought up in S1 once. But they didn't miss the chance to put the nod to it in there; in fact with those alone we see a good mix of common/ongoing jokes and smaller details.

We got "dammit Hardison" and "it's a very distinctive..." but also Eliot and Parker arguing about him catering a mob wedding, and Eliot being delighted by lemon as a secret ingredient in a dish in that same episode (another reference to the mob episode). Hardison and Eliot banter about "plan M", an ongoing joke starting from the very first episode of the original show. We see Sophie bring up Hardison's accent in the Ice Job, Parker also makes reference to an early episode when describing "backlash effect" to Breanna, in an episode that also references her brother slightly if you look for it.

Heck, the last episode of these first eight makes a big deal out of nearly reproducing the iconic opening lines of the original show with Fake Nate's "we provide... an advantage." And I mean, all the "let's go steal a ___" with Harry being confused about how to use them.

Some of the lines are more obviously references to the original show, but they strike a decent balance with smaller or unspoken stuff as well, and also mix in some references between the team to events we the audience have never seen. If someone was coming into this show for the first time, they wouldn't get all the easter egg joy but most of the references would stand on their own as dialogue anyway. In general, I think they struck a good balance of restating needed context for new viewers while still having enough standalone good lines and more-fun-if-you-get-it callbacks.

Continuity

Similar to the last point, but slightly different. The characters' development from the original to now is shown so well. I'm not going to go on about this too long, but the writers clearly didn't want to let the original characters stagnate during the offscreen years. There was a lot of real thought put into how they would change or not.

It's really written well. We can see just how cohesive a team Parker, Hardison, and Eliot became. We get a sense of how they've spent their time, and there's plenty of evidence that they remained incredibly close with Sophie and Nate until this past year. The way everyone defers to Parker is different from the original show and clearly demonstrates how she's been well established as the leader for years now - they show this well even as Parker is stepping back to let Sophie take point in these episodes. Eventually that is actually called out by Sophie in the eighth episode, so we might see more mastermind Parker in the back half of the show, maybe. But even with her leading, it's clear how collaborative the team has become, with everyone bouncing ideas off one another and adding their input freely. Sometimes they even get so caught up they leave the newbies completely in the dust. But for the most part we get a good sense of how the Parker/Hardison/Eliot team worked with her having final say on plans but the others discussing everything together. A little bit more collaborative than it was with Nate at the helm.

Meanwhile Sophie has built a home and is deeply attached to it. She and Nate really did retire, at least for the most part, and she was living her happy ending until he died. She's out of practice but still as skilled as ever, and we're shown how much her grief has changed her and how concerned the others are for her.

There's a lot of emphasis on how they all look after one another and the found family is clearer than ever. Sophie even calls Hardison "his father's son" - clearly referring to Nate.

Nate

Speaking of Nate! They handled his loss so, so well. His story was the most complete at the end of the last show, and just from a narrative point, losing him makes the most sense of all the characters. But the way he dies and his impact on the show and the characters continues. It's very respectful to who he was - who he truly was.

Nate was someone they all loved, but he was a deeply flawed individual. Sophie talks about how he burned too hot, but at least he burned - possibly implying to me that his drinking was related to his death. In any case, there's no mystery to it. We don't know how he died but that's not what's most important about his death. This isn't a quest for revenge or anything... it's just a study of grief and trying to heal.

Back to who he really was real quick - the show doesn't eulogize him as better than he was. They're honest about him. From the first episode's toast they raise in his memory, to the final episode where Sophie and Eliot are deeply confused by Fake Nate singing his praises, the team knows who he was. They don't erase his flaws... but at the same time he was so clearly theirs. He was family, he was the man they trusted and loved and followed into incredibly dangerous situations, and whose loss they all still feel deeply.

That said, the show doesn't harp on this point. They reference him, but they don't overwhelm new viewers with a constant barrage of Nate talk. It always serves a purpose, primarily for Sophie's storyline of moving through her grief. Anyway, @robinasnyder said all of this way better than me here, so go read that as well.

Representation

Or should I say, Jewish Hardison, Autistic Parker, Queer Breanna!

Granted, Hardison's religion isn't quite explicitly stated to be Jewish so much as he mentions that his "Nana runs a multi-denominational household", but nonetheless. He gets the shows big thesis statement moment, he gets a beautiful speech about redemption that is the emotional cornerstone of that episode and probably Harry's entire arc throughout the show. And while I'm not Jewish myself, most of what I've seen from Jewish fans is saying that Hardison's words here were excellent representation of their beliefs. (@featherquillpen does a great job in that meta of contextualizing this with his depiction in the original show as well.)

Autistic Parker, however, is shown pretty dang blatantly. She already was very much coded as autistic in the original show, but the reboot has if anything gone further. She sees a child psychologist because she likes using puppets to represent emotions, she stims, she uses cue cards and pre-written scripts for social interactions, there's mention of possible texture sensitivity and her clothes are generally more loose and comfortable. She's gotten better at performing empathy and understanding how people typically work, but it's specifically described as something she learned how to do and she views her brain as being different from ones that work that way (same link). Again, not autistic myself but from what I've seen autistic fans find a lot to relate to in her portrayal. And best of all, this well-rounded and respectful depiction does not show any of these qualities as a lack on her part. There's no more of those kinda ableist comments or "what's wrong with you" jokes that were in the original show. Parker is the way she is, and that allows her to do things differently. She's loved for who she is, and any effort made to fit in is more just to know how so that she can use it to her advantage when she wants to on the job - for her convenience, not others' comfort.

Speaking of loved for who you are.... okay, again, queer Breanna isn't confirmed onscreen yet, and I don't count Word of God as true canon. But I can definitely believe we're building there. Breanna dresses in a very GNC way, and just her dialogue and, I dunno, vibes seem very queer to me. She has a beautiful speech in the Card Game Job about not belonging or being accepted and specifically mentions "the way they love" as one of those things that made her feel like she didn't belong. And that scene is given so much weight and respect. (Not to mention other hints throughout the episode about how much finding her own space meant to her.) Also, the whole theme of feeling rejected and the key for her to begin really flourishing is acceptance for who she is, not any desire for her to be anyone else, is made into another big moment. Yeah, textually that moment is about her feeling like she has to fill Hardison's shoes and worrying about her past, but the themes are there, man.

Themes

I talked a bit about this yesterday, so I'm mostly just going to link to that post, but... this series so far is doing a really good job in my opinion of giving people arcs and having some good themes. Namely the redemption one, from Hardison's speech (which I'm gonna talk a little more about in the next point), and this overall theme of growing up and looking to the future (from above the linked post).

New Characters

Harry and Breanna are fantastic characters. I was kind of worried about Harry being a replacement Nate, but... he really isn't. Sure, he's the older white guy who has an angsty past but it's in a very different way and his personality and relationships with the rest of the crew are correspondingly different. I think the dynamic of a very friendly, cheerful, kind, but still bad guy (as @soundsfaebutokay points out) is a great one to show, and he's got a really cool arc I think of learning to be a better person, and truly understanding Hardison's point about redemption being a process not a goal. His role on the team also has some interesting applications and drawbacks, as @allegorymetaphor talked about. I've kind of grown to think that the show is gradually building up to an eventual Sophie/Harry romance a ways down the line, and I'm actually here for it. Regardless, his relationships with everyone are really interesting.

As for Breanna, first of all and most importantly I love her. Secondly, I think she's got a really interesting story. She's a link to Hardison's past, and provides a really interesting perspective for us as someone younger who has grown up a) looking up to Leverage and b) in a bleaker and more hopeless world. Breanna's not an optimist, and she's not someone who was self-sufficient and unconcerned with the rest of the world at the start, like everyone else. She believes that the world sucks and she wants it to be better, but she doesn't know how to make that happen. She outright says she's desperate and that's why she's working with Leverage. At the same time, Breanna is pretty down on herself and wants to prove herself but gets easily shaken by mistakes or being scolded, which is a stark contrast to Hardison's general self-confidence. There are several times when she starts to have an idea then hesitates to share it, or expects her emotions to be dismissed, or gets really disheartened when she's corrected or rejected, or dwells on her mistakes, or when she is accepted or praised she usually takes a surprised beat and is shy about it (she almost always looks down and away from the person, and her smile is often small or startled). Breanna looks up to the team so much (Parker especially, then probably Eliot) and she wants to prove herself. It's going to be so good to see her grow.

General Vibe

A brief note, but it seems a fitting one to end on. The show keeps it's overall tone and feeling from the original show. The fun, the competency porn, the bad guys and clever plans and happy endings. It's got differences for sure, but the characters are recognizably themselves and the show as a whole is recognizably still Leverage. For the most part they just got the feeling right, and it's really nice.

CONS (no, not that kind)

'Maker and Fixer'

So when I started writing this meta earlier today, I was actually a lot more annoyed by the lack of unique 'maker' skills being shown by Breanna. Basically the only time she tries to use a drone, the very thing she introduced herself as being good at, it breaks instantly. I was concerned about her being relegated into just doing what Hardison did, instead of bringing her own stuff to the table. But the seventh episode eased some of those fears, and the meta I just wrote for someone else asking about Breanna's 'maker' skills as shown this season made me realize there's more nuance than that. I'd still like to have seen more of that from her, but for now the fact that we don't see a lot of 'maker' from her so far seems more like a character decision based in Breanna's insecurities.

Harry definitely gets more 'inside man' usage. His knowledge as a 'fixer' comes in handy several times. Nonetheless, I'm really curious if there are any bigger ways to use it, aside from him just adding in some exposition/insight from time to time. I'm not even entirely sure how much more they can pull from this premise in terms of relevant skills, but I hope there's more and I'd like to see it. Maybe a con built more around him playing a longer role playing his old self, like they tried in the Tower Job? Maybe it's more a matter of him needed distance from that part of his past, being unable to face it without lashing out - in that case it could be a good character growth moment possibly for him to succeed in being Scummy Lawyer again down the line? I dunno.

Episode Twins

This was something small that kind of bothered me a little earlier in the season. It's kind of the negative side to the references, I guess? And I'm not even sure how much it annoys me really, but I just kinda noticed and felt sort of weird about it.

Rollin' on the River has a lot of references/callbacks to the The Wedding Job.

The Tower Job has a lot of references/callbacks to The White Rabbit Job.

The Paranormal Hacktivity Job has a lot of references/callbacks to the Future Job.

I guess I was getting a little concerned that there would be a 'match this episode' situation where almost every new Redemption episode is very reminiscent of an old one. I love the callbacks, but I don't want to see a lack of creativity in this new show, and this worried me for a minute. Especially when it was combined with all three of those episodes dealing with housing issues of some kind. Now, that's a huge concern for a lot of people, and each episode has its own take on a different problem within that huge umbrella, but it still got me worried about a lack of variety in topics/cases.

The rest of the episodes failing to line up so neatly in my head with older episodes helped a lot to ease this one, though. Still, this is my complaining section so I figured I'd express my concerns as they were at the time. Even if I no longer really worry about it much.

Sophie's Stagefright

Yeah, I know this is just a small moment in a single episode, but it annoyed me! Eliot made a bit of a face at Sophie going onstage, but I thought it was just him being annoyed at the general situation. However, they started out with her being awful up there until she realized the poem was relevant to the con - at which point her reading got so much better.

This felt like a complete betrayal of Sophie's beautiful moment at the end of the original show where she got over her trouble with regular acting and played Lady Macbeth beautifully in front of a full theater of audience members. This was part of the con, but only in the sense that it gave her an alibi/place to hide, and I always interpreted it as her genuinely getting over her stagefright problems. It felt like such a beautiful place to end her arc for that show, especially after all her time spent directing.

Now, her difficulty onstage in the Card Game Job was brief and at the very beginning of being up on stage. @rinahale suggested to me that maybe it was a deliberate tactic to draw the guy's attention, and the later skill was simply her shifting focus to make the sonnet easier for Breanna to listen to and interpret, but he seemed more enraptured when she was doing well than otherwise in my opinion and it just doesn't quite sit well with me. My other theory was that maybe she just hasn't been up on stage in a long time, and much like she complaining about being rusty at grifting before the team pushed her into trying, she got nervous for a moment at the very beginning. The problem there is that I think she'd definitely still get involved in theater even when she and Nate were retired. I guess she could've quit after he died, and a year might be long enough to make her doubt herself again, but... still.

I just resent that they even left it ambiguous at all. Sophie's skills should be solid on stage at this point in my opinion.

Thiefsome

...And now we come to my main complaint. This is, by far, the biggest issue I have with the show.

I feel like I should put a disclaimer here that I had my doubts from the beginning about the thiefsome becoming canon onscreen. I thought the famous "the OT3 is safe" tweet could easily just mean that they are all still alive and well, or all still working together, without giving us confirmation of a romantic relationship. Despite this, the general fandom expectations/hopes really got to me, especially with the whole "lock/pick/key" thing. I tried to temper my expectations again when the character descriptions came out and only mentioned Hardison loving Parker, not Eliot, but I still got my hopes up.

The thing is, I was disappointed pretty quickly.

The very first episode told me that in all likelihood we would never see Hardison and Parker and Eliot together in a romantic sense. Oh, there was so much coding. So much hinting. So much in the way of conversations that were about Parker/Hardison's relationship but then Eliot kept getting brought into them. They were portrayed as a unit of three.

But then there was this.

I love all of those scenes of Parker and Hardison being intimate and loving and comfortable with one another and their relationship. I really do. But it didn't escape my notice that there's nothing of the sort with Eliot. If they wanted a canon onscreen thiefsome, it would by far make the most sense to just have it established from the start. But there aren't any scenes where Eliot shares the same kind of physical closeness with either of them like they do each other. Parker and Hardison kiss; he doesn't kiss anyone. They have several clearly romantic conversations when alone; he gets important conversations with both but the sense of it being romantic isn't there.

Establishing Eliot as part of the relationship after Hardison is gone just... doesn't make any sense. It would be more likely to confuse new viewers, to make them wonder if Parker is cheating on Hardison with Eliot, or if they have a Y shaped relationship rather that a triangle. It would be so much clumsier.

Still, up until the Double-Edged-Sword Job I believed the writers might keep it at this level of 'plausible hinting but not quite saying'. There's a lot of great stuff with all of them, and I never expecting making out or whatever anyway; a cheek-kiss was about the height of my hopes to be honest. I mostly just hoped for outright confirmation and, failing that, I was happy enough to have the many hints and implications.

But then Marshal Maria Shipp came along. And I don't really have anything against her as a character - in fact, I think she has interesting story potential and will definitely come back. But the episode framed her fight with Eliot as a sexyfight TM, much like his fight with Mikel back in the day. And then his flirting with her rode the line a little of "he's playing her for the con" and "he's genuinely flirting." The scene where he tells her his real name is particularly iffy, but actually was the one that convinced me he was playing her. Because he seems to be watching her really closely, and to be very concerned about her figuring out who he really is. I am very aware though that I'm doing a lot of work to interpret it the way I want. On surface appearance, Eliot's just flirting with an attractive woman, like he did on the last show. And that's probably the intention, too.

But the real nail in the coffin for me was when Sophie compared herself and Nate to Eliot and Maria. That was a genuine scene, not the continuation of the teasing from before. And Sophie is the one whose insight into people is always, always trustworthy. She is family to the thiefsome. For this to make any sense, either Eliot/Parker/Hardison isn't a thing, or they are and Sophie doesn't know - and I can't imagine why in the hell she wouldn't know.

Any argument to make them still canon leaves me unsatisfied. If she knows and they haven't admitted it to her - why wouldn't they, after all this time? Why would she not have picked up on it even without an outright announcement? Some people suggested they wouldn't admit it because they thought Nate would be weird about it, but that doesn't seem any more in character to me than the other possibilities. In fact, the only option that doesn't go against my understanding of these people and their observational abilities/the close relationship they share.... is that the thiefsome is not a thing.

And furthermore, the implication of this conversation - especially the way it ended, with Eliot stomping off looking embarrassed while Sophie smiled knowingly - is that Eliot will get into another relationship onscreen. Maybe not a full-blown romantic relationship. But the Maria Shipp tension is going to be resolved somehow, and at this point I'm half-expecting a hook-up simply because of Sophie's reaction and how much I trust her judgement of such things. Even if she's letting her grief cloud her usual perceptiveness... it feels iffy.

It just kinda feels like I wasn't even allowed to keep my "interpret these hints/maybe they are" thiefsome that I expected after the first couple episodes convinced me we wouldn't get outright confirmation. (I mean, I will anyway, and I love the hints and allusions regardless.) And while I'm definitely not the kind of fan who is dependent on canon for my ships, and still enjoy all their interactions/will keep right on headcanoning them all in a relationship, it's just.... a bummer.

Feels like a real cop-out. Like the hints of Breanna being queer are enough to meet their quota and they won't try anything 'risky' like a poly relationship. I dunno. It's annoying.

.

That's the end of the list! Again, overall I love the new show a lot and have few complaints.