#casting discourse

[penig]

So there's very little, if any point, either agonizing or rejoicing about casting Skarsgaard as Murderbot because execution is everything and it could be every bit as bad as some people expect or it could be as good as other people expect or it could be a real mixed bag and there's nothing we can do about it, anyway. We won't know what we think about it till we watch it, but people like making discourse in a vacuum and here we are.

I totally get that there's something simultaneously inevitable and revolting about the idea of a character, canonically extremely oppressed in a world in which everyone whose skin color is described is more or less brown, being played by a member of the least oppressed population demographic with which most of us are familiar. My initial reaction was not great, either.

But every time I see someone say: "Murderbot is not a cis white man!" I can't help thinking: "No, it's not. But in the TV show, it looks like one."

Look, I'm bisexual. And cis. And monogamous. The person I married happened to also be bisexual and cis. We didn't stop being bisexual when we married each other, but when we're together, we don't look queer. We look heterosexual. Which means, we get a lot of heteronormative privilege we don't ask for and I can see why more visibly queer people might resent that. But you know what happens when we try to reject that privilege? People both straight and queer look us dead in the eye and tell us that we're not really queer.

And that sucks.

Ask any light-skinned black person capable of passing for white, any Jew being told that it's okay to commit terrorist acts toward them because they're really white, any queer in any closet, any SecUnit getting a job as security consultant believing that if its soft, grateful clients didn't think it was an augmented human they wouldn't like it so much.

It's not a good idea to rate things hierarchically. Particularly not oppressions. Every person's oppression is unique, and some are more fatal than others but they're all uniquely awful. Knowing that you're not what you're passing as and that the only way to gain access to certain things that should be available to anybody is to deny part of yourself is pretty bad; especially if failure to pass properly is likely to get you lynched. Or stripped for parts and recycled.

Murderbot doesn't want to be a cis white augmented human male. It doesn't like how it feels to be treated as one. It wants to be itself. Even though being treated as itself has always meant being treated badly, and it doesn't like that either. It isolates itself a lot in environments where it has to pass as an augmented human, to minimize the time it spends maintaining its false face.

Consider what it says when contemplating what name to put in the FeedID that Senior Indah insists upon, in Fugitive Telemetry:

I could use the local feed address that was hard coded into my neural interfaces. it wasn't my real name, but it was what the systems I interfaced with called me. If I used it, the humans and augmented humans I encountered would think of me as a bot. Or I could use the name Rin. I liked it, and there were some humans outside the Corporation Rim who thought it was actually my name. I could use it, and the humans on the Station wouldn't have to think about what I was...I posted a feed ID with the name SecUnit, gender = not applicable, and no other information.

It could have an easier life and make the people around it more comfortable if it compromised on presenting itself as itself, whole entire. But it doesn't want to claim that easier life. It's not worth it.

Maybe that'll come across in the show and maybe it won't and maybe whether it comes across or not will depend as much on the viewer as on what appears on the screen. We won't know till we see it.

Till then, I'm not ready to write it off.

[bvcktommy]

what do you mean 911 just gave us arguably one of the most well written, well directed, and well acted episodes of, at the very least, the last few seasons, if not the entire damn show, and all a certain group of people can talk about is how it's not worth anything because eddie diaz wasn't in it

[tevanbuckley]

genuinely think karla braun, the director of 8x14, should be allowed to bite the people review bombing the episode — the second episode of TV she's directed ever btw — because she didn't what? give them gay eddie? have buck stop mid-decontamination for a facetime? (none of which is even her call either).

she was so excited before the episode aired (and fwiw kudos to tim et al for giving a newer director the chance to direct such a big episode) and not only did she hit it out of the park, this opportunity clearly meant a lot to her and I hate the idea it might've been tainted by some chronically online losers who've tied way to much of their personality to a fanon ship.

[pigfartsviatardis]

Lmao mr Lloyd over here with his jayvik headcanons… tryna be all neutral and diplomatic with his answer… “yes yes it transcends labels… it can be whatever you want it to be… and here’s what I want it to be. They are living together. They have a charming cottage by the water. They are happily married with four children- mr linke what are you doing here-”

*gunshots*

[stolenkissesdiaz]

they do say when one ships falls another rises from the ashes…..

[topgvns]

It's your coffin, my love. Enjoy it! Most of us... never get to know what it feels like.

[andorerso]

let's get one thing straight, I will block anyone who says Rogue One isn't Jyn's story, or has been reframed to be about someone else, or that she's not the protagonist anymore. you cannot seriously be that dismissive of one of the few female leads in Star Wars. I say this as the certified biggest Cassian fan in the world, but y'all need to shut the fuck up. it's still Jyn's story.

[utilitycaster]

In the end, it is extremely vindicating to see the various accusations levied re: why people don't like Campaign 3 because like, in the end, most of the people who do like campaign 3 are desperately insecure people who cannot live with the idea that someone else doesn't love the thing they love. Like yeah, if it makes you feel better, sure, call me a stupid jesus freak centrist edgelord who isn't a Real Punk (who also apparently only wants feel-good liberal endings), and who only cares about stories where you can ship two men; you can conjure up an image of me sitting slack-jawed on a couch, face covered with cheeto dust, pointing at the TV and going HAHA LIGHTNING GOD GIVE BIG LIZARD A BELT. It won't make you feel better, is the thing, because you've decided total fandom consensus is the only thing that will ever make you happy, and so long as a handful of people are like "Campaign 3 isn't very good and I don't think Bells Hells are very good people within the context of that world, and outside of that context I don't really care about them" you will be miserable.

[mid-knight-black]

If I’m a pagan of the good times…

…my lover’s the sunlight

[azaharinflames]

Will you share your theory on what you think is happening behind the scenes of 911?

Hi, Nonnie!

Sure! As long as everyone is aware this is purely speculation, and nothing I say should be taken as proof of anything, I have no problem.

I've gone over a few things in my head, to be honest. I thought that JLH having filming conflicts could've been a major factor, and I still don't exactly disagree with that initial idea, but overall I think it was one of the things that threw TM for a loop.

Now, I've seen a lot of people theorize that perhaps Angela is leaving and that is what is causing so much chaos in BTS, but I am on the fence about this. I do think she might've asked to not have such a big role moving forward, especially if they get a season 9 (which I am also on the fence about ngl), like perhaps retiring, or just having a more laidback position training new recruits. The seeds are planted for that, not so much for her fully leaving. And it would give Angela more free time to dedicate to other projects (which, yes please. I need her in new projects ASAP).

So... (and please don't kill me for this, it's just a theory).

I think it all comes back to Ryan. And that he perhaps is leaving, or actively wants to leave. I will try to explain myself as concise as possible:

A couple of months ago there was already speculation about this. In all of his individual interviews (which were a lot, to be honest), Ryan made a point of talking about his work beyond 911 and talking about what he would like to do after 911.

On top of the individual promo, there was an uncharacteristically high amount of BTS dedicated to him and the godforsaken mustache. To the point where they threw a mustache party. And in the pics of that party, the vibes were that it was a party for Ryan, not in general.

Small thing, but Josh randomly dressing up as Eddie for Halloween. Perhaps unrelated, but I wanted to add it.

The 911 account reposting and celebrating Ryan's 100th ep, when 1. it wasn't his 100th (if we count the eps he was actually in) and 2. it was also JLH's, and yet they didn't say a thing about it. Ryan reposted that as well and the message he reposted it with was more nostalgic than anything else. Very much giving 'it was an honor to work with you, what a journey'.

I could be wrong, but I do think his contract ends this season. So, that just adds to it.

The timeline of the move to Texas. By the reactions alone I was fully expecting Eddie to leave for Texas at the end of 808, and then to be back with Chris (in a lazy way of solving their conflict off-screen) by 809-810. But the way he's currently thinking about it makes it very sus for me. As in, it can be a thing for the end of the season, and an actual goodbye for Eddie.

Of course, nothing of this has to actually happen, and it's quite possible it just exists in my brain. But this makes sense in my funny brain because then it explains why BT had to break up so soon... because they wanted Buck to feel completely isolated.

We know 809-10 will deal with Maddie being kidnapped. That alone will make Buck spiral. But if on top of that his best friend is also leaving... well, being alone just adds to the isolation and the angst. Because if Tommy was still around he'd be able to lean on him, and have him help him through this. But it seems like the writers wanted Buck fully alone for this, because sure, seeing a character never learning and being completely isolated is so much fun.

If this ends with BT getting back together, I honestly don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if Tim doesn't know. But, all in all, I wouldn't be surprised if RG deciding he's done is the thing that kinda created the domino effect.

(Also: I do not believe Oliver was telling Tim to fire Lou and end BT. Sorry. I just don't really see it. Nor do I think there were actual conflicts between actors BTS, as much as everything they're doing right now does feel a bit weird)

Anyway, thanks for letting me rant, Nonnie! My inbox is always open for ranting, venting, or discussing

Take care <3

[tevanbuckley]

ngl i think it's kinda strange we're having discourse over whether or not oliver specifically should do more to shut down toxic bddie shippers, because lbr there is no combination of words that could come out of his mouth that the worst parts of this fandom would not interpret as "bddie canon." he could spend hours a day waxing poetic about lfj tits and some wannabe body language expert would find a way to argue it's proof he secretly hates him and this storyline. even if they do eventually turn on him, i doubt that will change anyone's behavior.

I don't know when or if the penny is gonna drop for these people, but i think it's entirely reasonable for oliver to want to steer clear for as long as possible. i get why that might be frustrating for fans, but at the end of the day that's not his responsibility.

[miserablehockeyfan22]

SPOILERS s8 ep 16

So I actually liked the episode! I LOVE angst and this is what the show needed imo. I personally am happy that they didn’t just stuff all the grieving into one episode. I liked that Athena wanted to honor Bobby’s memory by helping solve a case she knew would mean a lot to him, while also using it as a distraction. I liked the parallel between the mom and Athena being in denial but in the end they both have to just face the facts and continue going for the people they have left. Anyone saying “no one showed emotion!” “I didn’t feel anything when watching this episode!” I’m guessing they are still just mad about the storyline or are mad about ships/characters with not enough screen time (which is fair). However, my girl May showed so much emotion, Hen was great (the boys 🥹) Athena was amazing!

I also think Buck was completely in character in this episode, I didn’t expect him to break down and I’m happy he didn’t. It would have felt rushed and buck is a fixer, and he’s going to try to help everyone else before himself especially because Bobby asked him to. Everyone saying that Buck wasn’t emotional or ooc aren’t noticing the look in his eyes and his body language. He’s gonna break down at some point he can only bottle it up for so long.

I think the death was actually handled really I think Bobby made the most sense to die (even though I love him). His death is gonna create some really interesting storylines that no one else’s death would. I think it even has some potential to bring back some of eddies personality and maybe fix up his storyline too.

Anyways, Tommy saved Bobby’s life it’s canon that we wouldn’t have our current 118 fam without Tommy 😏 can we get a Tommy Begins PLEASEEE

[allaboutalf]

If you’re a shipper going into the comment section of Gavin’s TikTok asking him about the ship you like or asking questions about the characters in the ship in a way you hope gets him to mention it then I want you to know you’re a terrible person and you need to leave that young man alone

[micamicster]

Adam was different since making the bargain with Cabeswater. Stronger, stranger, farther away. It was hard not to stare at the odd and elegant lines of his face.

Adam Parrish - The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater

[shorthaltsjester]

travis watching matt’s grog and then shouting “PIKE!!!!” in grog intonation but in his normal voice and laura getting hit by matt’s vex accent ray . both very important 2 me

[utilitycaster]

I'll be missing the live wrap-up but i wanted to say it's been disheartening but sadly unsurprising the way a lot of people who started with Campaign 3 talk about Marisha and Laura especially. It feels as though they see them as little more than vessels to provide Laudna and Imogen content. They get outright mad when people ask them questions in the AMA Firesides or 4SD about their jobs in Critical Role as a company, or other characters they've played, or their personal feelings about things they enjoy. A lot of them hate the Cobalt Soul despite Marisha explicitly and repeatedly saying it's incredibly meaningful to her, and are vocal about this, but will attack you if you say you're not a big fan of Laudna. Their approach to Keyleth feels like little more than a convenient opportunity for them to say "you can't ever criticize Marisha! Look at the harassment she received" but they'll then direct this claim towards anyone, even people who watched C1 live and experienced that in real-time and opposed it. They'll engage in harassment themselves and claim it's in defense of Marisha, then turn around and shit talk the Cobalt Soul and yell about how the Ashari are evil Ruidusborn haters and Beauyasha is boring.

And to be clear I have a longstanding and documented history of disliking obnoxiously parasocial behavior or invasive/repetitive/overly generic panel questions. I think, and I mean this genuinely, that it's completely fine and reasonable to be a CR fan who is here for characters only, and isn't interested in the cast. Indeed, I think a lot of early fans of the show were mostly here for the story of Vox Machina, and I respect the people who didn't connect to the Mighty Nein nor have an attachment to the cast and politely stepped away. I am not demanding everyone love every piece of merch nor every creative direction choice lest they disrespect Laura or Marisha; that is not how this works. But there's a difference between "I'm not really interested in anything but Keyleth, so I'm only tuning in to TLOVM chats!" vs this entitled distaste, verging on disgust, among a certain set of C3 fans when Marisha and Laura especially spend even a minute of their out-of-character time talking about anything other than Laudna and Imogen. If you do this, you cede the right to any "they're having fun/it's meaningful or comforting or makes them happy" defense (which, to be clear, I do not think is a valid argument with regards to the quality of a story, but which a lot of these people hypocritically invoke) or "if you dislike this female character or F/F ship you're a bigoted person," especially when you resent the actual real-world women behind your pretend characters for choosing to answer a question about anything other than what you personally care about.

And ultimately, I think that if you are dismissive and resentful towards the bulk of what the cast/company does (this includes when you turn this resentment towards fans for daring to ask questions about anything else, even in places that aren't at all C3-specific like panels or cast fireside AMAs, or places where the crew or the cast themselves are the ones actually choosing which questions are answered), it is childish and embarrassing to then act like you are being wronged and your opinions cruelly disregarded simply because something of which you only like one small facet fails to cater to you. You don't have to like it; but you showed up to part 3 of a trilogy and got mad that the creators sometimes talk about parts 1 and 2.