#cql wwx in a relationship is really up to the imagination

[llycaons]

I love content of wwx being smitten...just very in love and goofy about it and sappy and tender in ways he hasnt been allowed to be in canon. I would like to see more of it but I refuse to leave my circle so it comes inconsistently or not at all

[fincalinde]

lwj, for the meme?

Not the Lan bro I was expecting but here goes!

a song that reminds me of them

This doesn't remind me of him because I wouldn't want to ruin it for myself, but I can imagine a sad montage of interregnum LWJ set to I Am Stretched On Your Grave. Anyway, my proper answer is Frostrósir by Eivør. It's in Faroese, which I do not speak, but I pinched something from here:

Each sigh from a lonely soul Every word that was formed without sound Now seems like a frostbitten affair Dressed in the guise of lifeless flowers

what they smell like

We have an answer to this in canon and it's sandalwood, so I don't have much to add.

an otp

I mean, it is the central point of the novel. But even aside from that, LWJ is consistently only ever interested in WWX. I'm not saying he shouldn't be interpreted as gay, but I am saying that even if he is gay it's secondary to his actual sexual identity which is Weiyingsexual. I'm not treading any new ground here.

Personally I don't find Wangxian interesting, but I at least believe they love each other and are compatible in the sense that they are both selfish in slightly different ways that mesh well for their own private universe. Not so great for others in their orbit, but part of that is authorial fiat so I try to be fair about what I hold against them.

I don't think CQL successfully executed the changes it made to Wangxian in having them click and partner up from the beginning, but I do think it was necessary to at least attempt to rebalance the relationship. In MDZS, WWX genuinely does not reciprocate LWJ's feelings in his first life beyond a very deeply buried and not particularly inevitable spark. His first life is really centred on his relationships with JC and JYL and they are the tragic 'romance' (in the traditional sense). LWJ only gets upgraded during the second life. Kind of awkward to do your sweeping romance if it isn't a romance in the 35+ episodes of flashbacks, so I don't blame them for trying. And I do like the Colin Firth vibes WYB brought to his LWJ.

a notp

Aside from not finding the idea of LWJ with anyone else convincing, let me take the opportunity to pettily sideswipe at Chengxian and shoving LWJ in to make it what? Wangchengxian? Is that what it's called? Either way, nooooooo thank you. You can't get much more fraternal than WWX and JC's idiot bickering, and even if they weren't such classic stupid boys together, JC and LWJ loathe one another with the kind of loathing that does not give way to a rendition of I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face. (Incidentally, in the original stage version Eliza walks out on Higgins never to return, and it is awesome.)

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Obviously it's his relationship with LXC (and by extension LQR?). Just absolutely fascinating. Their rapport is very sweet, as is LXC's protectiveness and gentle trolling. LWJ is not a particularly good didi, but LXC both doesn't notice and doesn't mind.

Actually, someone once made a meme for me in relation to this, let me dust it off and drag it out:

More seriously, though he was also raised with harsh discipline, in comparative terms LWJ is the spoilt baby of the family. As is often the result when we encounter morally rigid characters in MDZS, he is also in many respects hypocritical. Clearly I have a lot of negative things to say about him as a brother to LXC, but I'm not interested in demonising him and what's really interesting about it is that by and large this uneven dynamic works for the Twin Jades. Right up until it doesn't.

When LXC really needs LWJ to come through for him, he just doesn't. I'm not even talking about LWJ's behaviour leading up to and during the Temple, which is objectionable in the sense that he refuses to give JGY the benefit of the doubt that LXC extends to WWX. No, I'm talking about the fact that he bods off for literal months after LXC has just been through the worst experience of his life and lost his closest friend and partner. And I don't want to hear it about LXC being the elder and having a responsibility to take care of LWJ. LWJ owes consideration to his big brother and clan leader, even if that consideration might take a different form.

Here's a thought experiment. After WWX's first death, when LWJ has been whipped 33 times by the discipline whip and dragged himself to rescue LSZ and branded himself in drunken grief, can you imagine LXC bodding off for three months without a word to have picnics with JGY? It's inconceivable isn't it.

I didn't intend for this section to become a hit piece on LWJ and he obviously does love his brother, but in terms of actions it is somewhat of a one way street. The fact that LXC has no other expectations doesn't protect LWJ from my croc-hatted judgement face.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Righteous LWJ. Oh, please. In MDZS, righteousness goes hand in hand with hypocrisy, and though I doubt MXTX the human being intended LWJ to be read as thoroughly selfish, the (translation of) the text she wrote is a depiction of a profoundly selfish man. And that's not a bad thing, because his selfishness coupled with the occasions when he is genuinely altruistic makes him more interesting than if he really were a moralising ice cube with a ribbon tied around it.

the position they sleep in

Official Lan Position, and postcanon I probably don't want to know.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

I'm going to be lazy and suggest X-Men AU again just because his secondary power would definitely be organic diamond form like Emma Frost. I don't think he'd also be a telepath, but the idea of that is funny because he could read WWX's mind and know for certain that WWX isn't (currently) into him. But as a serious answer, organic diamond form as a secondary power and then primary power the same as Alison Blaire. I see no reason why his mutant name wouldn't be Dazzler too.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I think he only has like one outfit. I'm sorry, I'm not cool enough to be able to distinguish between different varieties of plain white robes. In CQL I prefer first life LWJ because they put that massive ornament on second life LWJ's head to make him look older and taller but actually they created an unfortunate perspective effect where he just looks even shorter.

[lansplaining]

I see the "Why didn't they just ask for help??" thing directed towards both JGY and WWX all the time and it's so frustrating lol like who were they supposed to ask? The "nice" people at Koi Tower knew what was happening to JGY and did nothing, and LXC was the sect leader of a different sect he couldn't exactly move in 😭 and the most anyone was offering WWX was "abandon the war refugees you've sworn to protect and come with me" which... isn't helpful?? Does nothing to solve his actual problem???

wouldn't it be nice!!!! it just asking for help was the solution to intractable social problems!!!

i mean this is the whole point of the amazing conversation between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, right? "i can help you, but it's conditional." and to be perfectly clear, I don't blame Jiang Cheng for this-- he's right, and Wei Wuxian knows it and is fine with it! he doesn't need to ask for help, he literally gets offered it (as does Wen Qing, in CQL) and says no to the terms attached.

and with JGY... i get it! man, i really get it. LXC doesn't seem like the type of person who could let someone he cares about suffer, so the problem has to be that JGY is hiding things from him. Yanli's entire personality is her kindness and generosity, surely if she knew how JGY was being treated right under her nose, she'd pull a "an insult to my brother is my problem" speech about it.

but LXC knows! he canonically knows what's going on, and tries to hint to NMJ about it (who didn't know but doesn't care). he and JGY have clearly come to a mutual understanding that there is no help LXC can realistically offer except to listen and to privately support him.

and I just... I can't believe Yanli doesn't know that JGY isn't allowed to hold her son. (alternately, she really doesn't, and she and Jin Zixuan are off in a world of their own to a staggering degree, which I also buy.) she grew up in a complex and toxic family dynamic with two boys pitted against each other, she knows what this looks like. and imo she knows that it's a situation she can't touch with a ten-foot pole. what makes her moment with Jin Zixun exciting is that, for her, it's an extraordinary and unprecedented act of social courage. it's not something she had ever managed before, and we don't see any evidence she ever manages it again. if you decide she is unaware (is it really possible she hasn't noticed that someone is doing all un-fun admin leadership work for the sect and it isn't the heir?), that isn't JGY's fault-- that's her and Jin Zixuan's own decision not to pay any attention to the dynamics of the sect they're going to lead someday. and if you decide she is-- well, she might be less right than LXC in thinking that there's nothing she can do-- she's married to someone who arguably could do something if he really tried, but that also really depends on how you imagine JZX and JGS's relationship-- but she also has way less reason to be emotionally invested and to take that risk.

(all of this goes for Jin Zixuan as well, but as empathy and kindness are emphatically not his central character traits, I think the idea of him not quite engaging with the situation mystifies people less)

[pharahsgf]

what do you think about the idea that jiang cheng helps jin ling run the jin sect/root out corruption post-canon? imo it seems almost more likely for the jin sect to dissolve or diminish greatly. or maybe lwj steps in or smth. i actually like the idea of lwj stepping in during his campaign as cc and jl becoming less scared of him and possibly getting to spend more time w wwx

i think the jin sect's power will diminish no matter what tbh. their dominance in jianghu politics is not easy to maintain and i doubt it will manage to survive both the jgy patricide incest murder scandal AND the pr disaster that is sect leadership falling into the hands of an untrained 13yo. jiang cheng, i imagine, would attempt to assist or interfere and meet resistance from high ranking jin clan members who don't want the sect to be commandeered by a foreign sect leader who was barely respected even when he still had his 'slayer of necromancers' clout, and lan wangji... oh i actually really like the idea of cql lan wangji using his status as chief cultivator to protect jin ling. he has clear incentive to do so, his personality and lack of involvement in jin ling's tragic backstory could set him up as one of the few stable adult figures in jin ling's life, and most importantly. i think it'd be really cute if he and jin ling form a stronger relationship based on their mutual exasperation with, but grudging participation in, tedious sect politics. also jin ling deserves a second good uncle imo

[wei-yiing]

i LOVE mdzs but one thing that really bothered me is that wen ning's archery skills never went anywhere. like yes, i understand that it makes his death Even More Tragic because he had so much unrealised and untapped potential that he never had the chance to see to fruition, and yes i understand that fierce corpses aren't exactly known for their precision and swift-handed dexterity, but it feels like Chekhov's gun never fired and not in a 'haha-i-got-you' way.

maybe i'm asking for too much because wen ning is already the exception in everything when it comes to fierce corpses, but would it have really been too much of a stretch to believe that he could wield a bow and arrow as a fierce corpse? not that he would ever need to with his overwhelming strength in combat but even if he just picked up a bow once, out of nostalgia, or because he missed it, it would feel a little more conclusive. he doesn't even need to be as skilled as he was - i can't imagine his decayed body holds the same accuracy as his living one did - but his archery was like, one of three defining traits about him before he died (the other two being that he's shy but morally good and he loves his sister), a tiny sign that it's still something he cares about even thirteen years later would be so sweet

basically. fierce corpse wen ning wielding a bow and arrow 2k21 who's with me

[cqlfeels]

Hope no one minds if I share a half-baked 3zun theory with the class 😊

It really is half-baked and is shared more like a drunk guy yelling in the subway than like a fandom scholar presenting a lecture 💖

So, sworn brotherhood is way more complicated than exchanging friendship bracelets and promising to be BFFs. It involves the families of all sworn brothers (and we know how important families are in the world of MDZS/CQL) and, for political leaders, it unavoidably gets tangled up in politics. Though speaking of modern-day rather than historical sworn brotherhood, this paper does a pretty good job outlining the functions of ritual kinship, and it's very readable, so I do think people who are Into Serious Meta would enjoy it:

Anyway, here's why WWX speculates 3zun swore brotherhood:

Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.

Standard unreliable narrator disclaimers apply, etc.

But I always found this... Strange. I do think this is part of NMJ's motivation, but I think gratitude for JGY's role in the war is not nearly enough to swear brotherhood (WWX was also instrumental to winning Sunshot, and I just can't imagine NMJ saying "that's enough for him to become my brother"), and I... Don't think NMJ is so charitable as to swear brotherhood because he wants oh so much for JGY to be Good and not waste his talents. Yes I think he loves being able to have authority over JGY again, but enough to justify swearing brotherhood? Eh. I can see LXC suggesting both these things to pitch the idea to NMJ, but I don't think it's enough for NMJ to go from active distrust to ritual kinship. Of course these are important factors, yes, but not the whole picture. For all else you can say about NMJ, that he takes oaths lightly isn't an accusation you can make.

Interestingly, besides mutual affection, etc, LXC and JGY immediately gain material benefits by becoming brothers. JGY gains social capital by being held up as being close to two different sect leaders, and washes away his past work for the Wen by ritually aligning himself with the two heroes of Sunshot. LXC, on the other hand, can get financial help for his destroyed Sect without losing face - he's not begging for help, he's just gracefully accepting his brothers' generosity. For xiyao, sworn brotherhood brings some measure of stability to the power play they're entangled in the post-war world - JGY exchanges his sect's resources for the soft power of the Lan. (Note that JGY also gets a way to justify to his father why the Jin will lose face if they don't help the Lan, which, if you read JGY as genuinely wanting to help LXC, is also a perk for both of them.)

And NMJ......... Gets to scold JGY into virtue, I guess??? What benefit is he looking for? Just personal satisfaction??? Is he not Nie-zongzhu, isn't he considering his sect? I mean, the Nie as a sect gain nothing by their brotherhood...... Unless you remove NMJ out of the picture. When NHS gets to power, the Nie are poised to gain a lot.

Although both JGY and LXC clearly love NHS, if he outlived his political usefulness (and let's face it, NMJ is sure he will), there's no way they can justify to their sects why they're helping him indefinitely. If NHS is their sworn brother's heir, though? They don't even have to explain themselves - they're expected to help.

Even if NHS is a disastrous sect leader, he automatically inherits an unbreakable alliance with 2/3 of the major sects. The Jiang sure as hell won't go to war against all the other major sects put together, and LXC won't allow the Lan to be anything but nice to NHS as long as he can possibly help it. The Jin are more of a wildcard because NMJ has no reason to believe JGY will ever inherit leadership, but NHS - and by extension his sect - having a Jin on his side is better than no Jin at all. Plus if JGS were a normal father it'd be super awkward for him to go up against one of his son's sworn brothers' sect. There's always assassination and all, but hey, NMJ can't fix every thing in one fell swoop, can he?

So like, I'm not saying it's canon or anything, but it is possible that NMJ - who may be a hot-headed dude but must be capable of some level of strategizing, if he's such a great military man - was counting on dying before his time and leaving behind a beloved but incompetent brother who needs every advantage NMJ can get him if the Nie are to not disappear in a generation. I don't believe he'd take such an oath solely to Turn JGY Into An Upstanding Citizen, but I definitely believe he'd take whatever oath he had to if it's to ensure the protection of both NHS and the Nie sect.

I still have to think things through (maybe this whole theory will fall apart if I remember some direct contradiction or another) but for now I'm inclined to headcanon that this was like, 50% of his motivation, the other 50% being divided among the other reasons WWX outlined.

[plan-d-to-i]

Playing off of what that person said about bottom Wangji, I personally find it ooc and wish people would tag it as such. MXTX has said multiple times that while people can ship whoever they want, they should never break up the main couple or change their dynamic in the relationship.

Also Wei Ying loves being a bottom in canon. In incense burner, WY immobilizes LWJ and still is the bottom and tries to break LWJ's restraint to get LWJ to rail him. He could have switched it but he doesn't. I find that their dynamic in canon fits who they extremely well, not because of stereotypes, but for other reasons. WY spends his entire first life taking of and protecting every else while in his 2nd he finally has someone to do that for him. He doesn't need LWJ to that, but it's nice to be able to be vulnerable and let yourself go and have someone take care of you for once. LWJ being top allows him to let go of his self-restraint and his be true self with WY and that WY loves all of it and even encourages it. He doesn't have to be perfect or the ideal confucianist man with WY. It also fits better with their dual cultivation and regrowing WY's golden core. LWJ is Yang energy while WY is Yin so it balances each other out.

Essentially write whatever you want, but do take into account the MXTX's wish for her own characters. She knows them better than any of us, so there has to be reason for her choice of dynamics.

I don't disagree. I 100% wish Western fandom could tag their head canons better like "#characters belong to mxtx #ooc belongs to me" when they go off on their "metAs" made up of 99.99% imagination and vibes, and make it easier for everyone to partake in the part of fandom they want to partake in. But half of this fandom self inserted so hard into side characters they can't even tell what canon is anymore and think mxtx did their favs wrong. Personally I really don't care about strangers projecting on the characters and changing them to match their traumas and dramas etc bc I fell in love w the story as mxtx wrote it. Hot take I know. Like I said I love the novel and their relationship dynamic. People switching them is OOC but I find it harder to endure ChengX!an, ZhanCh3ng, Hetswapping WangXian, insecure weak WWX and whatever other stuff ppl cook up for the mains that doesn't improve on the story in any way. I wish ppl could respect the author's wishes but let's be real ppl are out there wishing mxtx harm and arguing cql made the work better so it's probably not gonna happen in this fandom ( ≖.≖)

[fatalism-and-villainy]

So I get the sense that it’s a notion in certain parts of fandom that Wei Wuxian going off travelling at the end of the show constitutes an unhappy ending for our main characters, or indicates a failure of communication with each other in their desire to be in a relationship, and that Wei Wuxian needs to just get his shit together and realize he should go back to Lan Wangji. But my impression, even from the first time I watched the show, is that WWX’s need to explore for awhile has very little, if anything, to do with LWJ.

I mean, imagine being in WWX’s position. He died - committed suicide - at the absolute lowest point in his life, having renounced his adoptive family, had his chosen community of people slaughtered, and lost everything he had to live for. He was an extremely unhappy person! And then, he got yanked back into the living world, with no memory or awareness of where he was all those years he spent being dead - already deeply disconcerting - and immediately plunged into an investigation that he doesn’t really have a choice but to devote his entire being to. (CQL’s timeline is a bit murky, but my impression is that the post-resurrection plotline takes at least a few months to resolve.) Like... of course he needs time and space to process everything that’s happened to him! Of course he needs an opportunity to just live and experience the world - a world that he needs to become reacquainted with, after being gone for over a decade.

Especially because WWX is someone who copes with his own issues by throwing himself at other problems that need solving and people who need helping, hence why it’s been pointed out by others that running into Wen Qing during his self-destructive, PTSD-ridden binge drinking period post-Sunshot was what pulled him out of his stupor and gave him a purpose again. So I imagine that having a mystery to occupy himself with immediately upon returning to life was a very efficient distraction from his issues! But afterwards, when everything is cleared up, he’s suddenly left unmoored and vulnerable and without a strong sense of who he even is and how he fits into the world now. And yes, he has LWJ to go back to... but he can’t build his entire sense of identity around LWJ, and that relationship can’t be his only source of happiness and fulfillment. And he genuinely seems to like exploring and having new experiences and meeting new people! It’s a good way for him to get a sense of who he is now.

It’s true that WWX has a lot of insecurity and neurosis re: feeling deserving of care and affection, and I’m not claiming that he’s completely resolved those issues (or any of his issues). But I think there’s a lot more trust between him and LWJ, and that he’s considerably more secure in that relationship, by the end of the show. Post-resurrection there are a lot of scenes where he’s a lot more mature in his interactions with LWJ, a lot more capable of grasping LWJ’s boundaries, and a lot better at tempering his teasing with sincerity. So I don’t take his self-discovery journey as the same sort of destructive impulse towards isolation that he displays after his stint in the Burial Mounds. I think it’s a demonstration, rather, of the trust he’s built in LWJ, and in the fact that he doesn’t need to constantly be demanding attention for LWJ to still wait for him and be there for him when he’s ready to come back. And it’s being able to clearly communicate his needs and intentions in a given moment, rather than just shutting the other person out. 

And from LWJ’s perspective - it’s so important that he’s able to let WWX go! LWJ is also incredibly neurotic and also feels that he’s not deserving of love. And he grows up without any models of what healthy relationships look like - his parents’ relationship is the only framework he has, as evidenced by him taking inspiration from that in wanting to hide WWX at Cloud Recesses. But he quickly realizes that that’s not what he wants, and that he doesn’t want to force WWX to do anything. When WWX comes back to life, he takes care of him and gives him gifts not because he’s expecting anything in return, but because he loves him and wants to make him happy and show him kindness when so few people have. But it’s important, I think, for him to be able to spend time apart from WWX, to give him the space he needs, without seeing that as just another sacrifice that he’s making. When he sees WWX off on his self-discovery journey, he’s in a place where he can start to trust that WWX will come back, and that he has massive significance for WWX even when WWX doesn’t have to depend on him for emotional and material support.   

Being able to maintain distance from each other, and maintain their own separate identities and relationship, with each one still having confidence in the strong foundation they’ve built together, is very important to me, and it’s why I’m so defensive of this ending. 

[fixielixie]

Non-chinese CQL fandom really need to understand they aren't part of MDZS fandom & danmei. CQL is dangai where danmei characters are turned straight. CQL/dangai!WWX is not even bi but straight. CQL team is just queerbaiting, lol.

i honestly find this fact really interesting. take everything with a grain of salt rn as i ramble in ignorance bc im not chinese nor do i speak it, all of my opinons come from research i'll link bc its super informative.

i think its more complicated than cql 'turning wwx straight' rather than leaving it ambiguous enough that if you want people to see him and lan wangji as straight pals you can, but if fans of the novel want to read deeper into they can also choose to do so. its a way to keep the drama as profitable as possible, still abiding by the censorship laws while also keeping the original target audience interested in the content.

queerbaiting was a world created to describe western media compainies using this same ambiguity of sexulaity to reel in queer fans with the fake promise of representation. though it sounds similar to what the genre of dangai is doing, theres a core difference here, danmei wasnt made /for gay people/, it was a literary reaction to a anti-women society. there are no queers to be baited here, because what these media companies are trying to do is keep the interested of the conversative general public AND the majority heterosexual women og audience of danmei.

if mdzs as a novel hadnt existed, and the untamed was made as a stand alone and still blew up internationally, i could only imagine the insanity of the discourse from people denying it was ever gay in the first place to people calling everyone who didnt think it was gay homophobic. but the thing is, without the context of the original novel explicitly having a mlm relationship, there is nothing to back up the idea that the untamed is fundamentally queer because it was explicitly made to /not be gay/.

which puts the international cqlonlies in a weird position because by them rejecting the original novel as 'homophobic' and only acknowledging the drama adaptation, theyre essentially also rejected the element that makes cql and the characters in it /gay/. every hidden meaning and gay yearning stare within the untamed only existence in the context of the novel itself, a pandering of sorts to the community of mdzs fans to keep them satisfied with the adaptation while also still being allowed to air on tv. but take away the original novel, then you are given what the untamed was narratively pushing and advertised as, "two close friends". the untamed producers were going to take this a step farther by adding a female love interest for wen qing but when that was met with backlash, they removed it but still had wwx leave lwj at the end.

the cql team wasnt queerbaiting the original fans of the story let alone the international fans that came later on, rather they were trying to made a drama that would be as profitable as possible by appealing to the fans and the general public. tho i do agree that cqlonlies are not part of the mdzs fandom/danmei fandom, if anything they completely reject it (mostly out of complete ignorance of what theyre talking about). (interesting metas about this topic can be found here and here)

[llycaons]

hi i love hearing your opinions about cql and i remember you said that you prefer mianqing over yanqing. i love both but i think mianqing would suit each other more tbh. id also love to hear your reasons why!

Hi anon, thanks so much! for me it comes down to compatability in personalities

yanqing is a fine ship based on shared experiences (both familial and traumatic) and relatability, and wq could provide the stability and strength and confidence that jyl often finds herself without while wq could get taken care of AND help take care of jyl too....but wq is so reserved and guarded, and jyl is so polite and shy and uncomfortable with pushing, that I think unless they were together for an extended period of time in intense situations that forced them to rely on each other, it would be hard to for them to get close or open up to each other. and you could argue CR arc and the wen attack provided that foundation, esp with wq helping jyl medically and jyl apparently becoming closer with wq's beloved wen ning, but I'm someone who likes to imagine relationships based on what you see in canon (this is about to make me a hypocrite) and they seemed just as gently polite to each other at the end as they did initially. but it's a nice ship, I certainly don't disparage it or dislike it! there's just too little...spark in there for me if you know what I mean

now for mianqing. this is actually quite a bad justification so I apologize in advance but the way that mm acts just makes me think she'd be more likely to break through wq's walls, and provide interesting and valuable companionship. wq, even more polite but just as distant as lwj, carefully guards herself as he does. and the only person (besides a literal child) unrelated to them who really broke through those barriers was wwx, who's attention and interest was impossible to brush off or ignore. and like wwx, mm and wq are both sharply intelligent and have strong enough principles to defy their sects and do the right thing for others regardless of the damage it incurs to them, and mm isn't willing or able to sit by while wq's family is hunted down once she knows the situation. NOT to blame jyl for what other sect leaders are doing but it makes for a somewhat awkward situation, romantically speaking 😭. wq's best friend is wwx, so it just would make sense that she could come to care for someone just as fiery and witty and passionate as him. wq is an extremely strong and brilliant person with equally strong ideals, and I can't see her with someone who doesn't share those ideals or is willing to risk what they have for her family. I don't have much of a reason for mm to return her affection besides 'wq beautiful genius, who wouldn't? but it's something I can see arising in a rogue cultivator scenario. I actually find mm's canon husband very charming (as I find xuanli), but there you have it

also....women are hot.

thanks for the ask!

[icecreamkink]

watched all of the untamed / cql in two weeks after my friend 1 told me abt mdzs a hundred years ago and my friends 2 and 3 tried to get me into cql for like two whole years and there are.

feelings.

very first scene is a very dramatic death in the middle of nightmare battle on sith planet land . i will forget abt it in the next tenish episodes and then will be very surprised when it becomes Extremely Painful

anyway magic flying gays and possession and human sacrifice! we are off to a great start

in retrospect, chaos goblin wei wuxian must have had a blast pretending to be so cRaZy and be as disruptive as he could as mo xuanyu lbr

listen. why is fire always evil coded. cant a magic clan wear red, black and orange and have flame motif while being wholesome?

For Legal Reasons These Are Not Zombies

i wish the politics of the sect were a bit clearer, especially at the beggining when the wen clan had sm power, was wen ruohan the chief cultivator? is that why they were so slow in responding to the attacks? im v confused by the pre yiling patriarch politics

fighting in the roof by the moonlight as way of flirtiiiiiiing. as i understand this is a wuxia/xianxia trope and honestly...... thank u for ur service

slight bullying and being a nuisance in general, as a way of flirting we love to see it

wwx: if i drink on the rooftop, thats not inside the cloud recesses! hmmm check and mate :D lwj: i will fuck u up so help me god   wwx: :0

i lov them

through hell or high water (quite literally) wei wuxian rem ains a trashfire gremlin till the end and i love him with my whole heart

in the pt subs wei wuxian calls jiang cheng a stubborn duck and i dearly wish that had come back

my opinions on almost every character goes from love to hate u - Hmm Me Like U - BABY. ILY. and i am Very Pleased w that. its been a while since i loved such a complete cast so much i think

no really. i WONT go into a detailed rant abt what i love about each of these characters and each of their relationships to each other. but i COULD. 

some lan disciples in the loudest whisper ever: YEAH THATS THE JIN BASTARD MENG YAO HEARD THE GOT SUPER HUMILIATED BY HIS DAD LOL SURE HOPE HE DOESNT TAKE SLIGHTS TO HIS CHARACTER TO HEART

lan xichen, immediately: i must Love him 

being into problematic ppl is in the Lan genetics, we come to realize

wen qing deserves so many awards for so many things but not snapping and just stabbing wen chao is at the top 

that scene at lan qirens class where wwx talks about using resentful energy to fight a violent spirit. exquisite.

 It establishes Good Student lan wangji, wei wuxian as curious and questioning and not afraid of taboo,  lwj sees that wwx is not, in fact, a dumb ass hes just a Dumbass,  shows us the audience (esp. a western audience) how shocking the idea of disrupting the dead/dying and controlling resentful energy actually is,  the theoretical foreshadow arguing, everyone else like ‘shUT UP’,  “and how could you ensure that the resentful energy would obey you and not hurt other?” “well i havent thought that far” and of course, lan qiren just straight up lobbing a hard object at wwx head,. chefs kiss

fellas is it gay to bother the hot rule obessessed nerd from ur school and make drawings of him with flowers in his hair and then hide gay porn in his book to antagonize him and ask him to hold ur hand and be ur friend and talk to him all the time and get him drunk and give him bunnies bc you know he likes them and give him a lantern and always want his attention and dedicate yourself to getting him to smile-

and after all of that wwx rly said oh i Admire him, aksd like yeah we all were there in high school buddy

i have Learned. caves = gay.

 accidental marriage +beint physically tied together with the sacred married ribbon+ gay panic+foreshadowing+bunnies! in the cave (1)

the story abt lan yi and baoshan sanren tho. i would like to see it

early days wen bros pull my heart strings like a guqin 

EVERYTHING about the lantern scene; disaster hets jiang yanli and jin zixuan; how wwx made lwj a bunny lantern. how soft and touched lwj was. wwx gleefully pointing out he was smiling and lwj IMMEDIATELY PULLING HIW SWORD ON HIM LMAO. tragically foreshadowy promises to do right by pepople, living without regrets. lwjs 'oh no do i love him??' face. just. all of it. 

i have it on good acc that in the novel lwj is explicitly Repressed Gay Panicked Big Horny which is delightful and rly Adds to the performance

 baby lwj is really just conceal dont feel dont let them know u have EMOTIONS (derogatory)

jiang cheng rly went "why dont.u go play with HIM if u like him so much"

jc and wwx have big BIG annoying sibling energy dont think too hard abt it or youll cry

lotus pier is soo pretty :((((((((((((((((

up until episode 13 you could think this could be a magical ancient chinese gays pride n prejudice w swords and shenanigans ................youre just not prepared for the game of thrones of it all

seriously ha ha ha i cried so much w this show my eyes genuinely swelled up . like. physically. fun timez fun timez

that being said, its hilarious that wen xu goes to cloud recesses like 'come out or ill kill all these hostages' and then DOESNT WAIT FOR AN ASWER AND KILLS THEM ALL IMMEDIATELY. do u know how blackmail works sir

 would like to make it recorded that from day one i was like 'CALL A GODDAMN CULTIVATION G20 THIS ASSHOLE SECT IS LITERALLY MASSACRING YALL!!' and it took them like 3 or 4 massacres to do anything and they STILL sent their heirs into their territory  LIKE

when wwx cites the gusu lan rules to wen chao tho. that rebel/attention whore/cutie pie 'look lan zhan i DID memorize the rules after all' ‘also a big fuck you to the wen sect :D :D’ sweet spot that scene achieves . delicious

all the cultivator young masters being petty af even though they are practically prisoners at the cave is hilarious and i love them

hurt and comfort + gay mistunderstandings + watsonian gay declaration music + accidental evil acquisition! at the cave (2)

its like where do i start? the fact theyre both trapped and kind of heavily injured inside an isolated cave with a murder turtle? wwx gay panicking lwj into coughing up bad blood? lwj being jealous as wwx babbles abt mianmian? telling him he shouldnt play with people and wwx saying he never played him? wwx going Oh. I See what is happening. YOU like mianmian, and lwj absolute done face ??? (iconic) wwx touching the sacred married ribbon Again? the telepathic communication? the sword? WEI WUXIAN ASKING LAN WANGJI TO SING TO HIM AS HE IS PASSING OUT AND LWJ SINGING HIM. THE SONG. HE WROTE. FOR WWX. AND THAT HE CALLED. THEIR SHIP NAME????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

they are SO insufferable pleeeeease

in the words of my friend 1 : “CQL is so gay we were all amazed how it got past the censors Ofc unfortunately it can't be novel level gay But they did their best And we love them for it”

in the theme of songs THIS OST. WUJI HAS BEEN LIVING IN MY MIND RENT FREE SINCE I FIRST HEARD IT the whole ost is so so sO beautiful.

 the costuming in this is also soooo exquisite. the embroidery? the fabrics? the details? how every sect and clan has a distinct style and architecture? (also ik they based each off of dif periods in chinese history which is REALLY fucking cool) just chefs kiss

the direction too!. i enjoy the unusual camera movements and i think they give it that Vibe, also their composition is PARTICULARLY good when it comes to telling the subtext through position of camera/position of character (like nhs off to the side in scenes he at first glance doesnt need to be/ how lwj is often centered when hes Jealous Yearning at wwx being affectionate w other ppl, wwx return from burial mounds etc)

ik madam yu is like Badass Milf Check and shes not getting any mom of the year awards but im delighted at how messy she is. IMAGINE that woman on tiktok

you better have enjoyed gay cave (2) bc its Just Pain from here on out! 

jiang fengmian and madame yu win the Most Dramatic Way to show they do care about each other, actually ..... ever :)

i thought jiang yanli jiang cheng and wei wuxian forcing themselves to escape yunmeng barely holding on after their parents are killed was going to be the height of pain in this show. ha. 

the family dynamics in general on this showwwww, both blood/ adopted/ found families, brotherly bonds and lifelong friendships just. rly. truly. fucked me up. theyre all so important and complicated and well rounded and beautiful and tragic

and beyond being a Win For the Gays im so glad the relationships w wwx and jiang yanli/ wen qing were NOT changed from platonic bc they are so much better like that imo. like maybe if we didnt Live In A Society it wouldnt be so, but the fact wwx and others can love and value them so much and theres nothing romantic or sexual abt it is like. so refreshing. especially @ jyl, with the way he and jc are overprotective of her and shes such a nurturing/care taker figure for them, it would just not vibe as well if they made it romantic

i love that this is a story abt Wei Wuxian, the Yiling Patriarch aka Actual Satan/Boogey Man/Village With/Public Enemy Number One , my dude is literally a necromancer who only dresses in black and has evil smokey black tendrils wafting out of him, but the really edgy one is still jiang cheng, pastel purple fashion icon

and speaking of best/worst siblings wei wuxian and jiang cheng *immediately starts crying* 

The Golden Core Transfer i just. no thots only tears 

wen qing and wen ning putting themselves in so much danger just.... to help them. wn saving jc from wen chao. wq finding a way to get wwx to transfer his core. like thinking about the monumental work these two did to help wwx and jyl and jc... jyl trying so fucking hard to be strong and keep on moving and giver her little brothers comfort after losing everything... jiang cheng. losing his parents and his home and his ability to do anything abt it and his complete desperation and lack of self worth and turning on them with agression  when he didnt realize all that they did for him ... hhhhhhhhhhhhh

me, pointing at the whole cast “i just LOVE them mom!!!”

its sad tho, that BARELY ANY of the women have like.... actual important conversations let alone relationships with each other at all in the story. and like wq and jyl have stayed at the same place for extended periods of time, where wq actively took care of her TWICE,  and still! not one measly convo, nothing! ................ .𝓌ₕᵧ

everyone in this show need a good sip of Self Worth and Stop Sacrificing Yourself juice 

ngl the sword flying looks very dumb 

“a-cheng, please bring a-xian back.” “i will, i promise.” ;-;

the whole calling each other by the More Intimate Version of the name, first as teasing and later as true intimacy. mmmhmmm yes

untamed where everythings the same but wwx evil flute song is eoeo

related that scene when wwx comes back from the burial mounds for the first time w demonic cultivation and he acts all formal and calls lwj hanguang-jun and keeps being evasive and distant and mean and soooooo................. facetious 

and how hes kind of desperately trying to keep intense lwj at bay (A FIRST) and avoiding actually talking to either of them and its all tension ughhh and then he MOCKS his and lwjs relationship, he jokes w him in this like... mean echo of their usual ~banter~ oof 

 and like!!! uncertain but so relieved jc who just HUGS him w no reservations for once and its not like he isnt just as worried as lwj abt wwx and what hes doing, but he chooses in that moment to enjoy getting him back first and mmhmMMMmMm yes (maybe my favorite scene in the whole show? MAYBE SO. ) 

highkey hurt me but also. i might be into mean wwx. i will take no criticism.

lan zhans sad eyes tho :((((((((( 

on one hand i wish we could have seen what happened at the burial mounds but on the other the timeskip adds so much flair to his return so im hnnn

also i love that hes been missing for 3 months reappears kinda melancholic and bloodthirsty and knowing malign tricks and jc is like 'so. are u sad bc of lan wangji'

when ur bae survived the war but he thinks ur evil/ might be evil so you cant kiss :///

hmmm talking at the rooftop under the moonlight not mentioning everything that stands between usssss

they are the two jades of lan and we’ll be the two heroes of yunmeng is the type of line u dont even need to know whats gonna happen to know thats gonna be sad

when they fight wen ruoshan at the nightless city i thought that was the battle we see at the first ep and its not and its so easy and theyre all like ‘yayy we won go wwx!’ i was just. SCREAMS WHAT is gonna HAPPEN

so like. post burial mounds/sunshot campaign pre yiling patriarch wwx is like. ultra arrogant, ultra mocking, peak lil shit and it gave me e v e r y t h i n g i wanted

even tho having the wen prisoners at the targets at phoenix mountain and still having wwx and jzx shooting the arrows was???? so.... tone deaf 

wwx: fucking w demonic energy   jyl: he has never done anything wrong in his life, ever <3 <3 (mood)

the parallels between meng yao/wei wuxian (and even xue yang a bit?) are Seen and they are Valid

wwx post burial mounds: can yall SHUT UP abt the goddamn sword (suibian left the chat)

LIKE truly, we talk abt the angst and yearning with wangxian. but what abt wwx and suibian. xianbian / xianqing angst and comfort 100k

take a shot everytime someone coughs up blood

zidian is simply the coolest spiritual weapon rip to suibian and chenqing and bichen and sendou and baixa........ but tis the truth 

cons: everyones families died in a nightmare war! everyones homes burned to the ground! everyone is traumatized! pros: everyone gets cooler clothes and weapons!!

wen ning and a-yuan and yanli bestest babes squad dont touch me rn

everyone: brooding and fighting                                                                wq and jyl: why dont you try some acupunture/drinking some soup and calm down huh? how abt that bitch?? 

showing the battle/massacre at the nightless city first was genius actually bc then everytime we have a cute scene w yunmeng bros and theyre like 'we'll be together forever! uwu' youre like oh. oh no. oh no no no. 

justice vs lawfulness vs means and ends 👁

jc: stay in the right path and practice the art of the sword                        wx: yeah thats not gonna happen chief

my reaction to wwx renouncing to the sect politics to help the wens was just that elmo burning gif in succession

the dramatic rain. wen qing desperately calling out to wen ning. the ghosts/puppets killing the guards. how terrifying wn actually was while wwx was controlling him :( lwj goeing after him to try and stop him and then he just; he Sees him and understands him even if he cant actually do anything about it other than let them go. 

“there must be somewhere in this earth we can go to :(((((((((”

"IF I HAVE TO FIGHT THEM, I'D RATHER IT BE YOU. DYING BY YOUR HANDS WOULD AT LEAST BE WORTH IT." oh my god oh my god oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooddddddd

also lwjs umbrella is white w black smoke.. .  . nice

yiling patriarch / demonic farming burial mounds settlement is like one of my favorite concepts. they an "EVIL" FARMING COMMUNITY LED BY THE VILLAGE WITCH COME ON

they planted TURNIPS and LOTUS FLOWERS and ONE (1) baby and made lanterns and a common hall :(((((((

wen qing and wei wuxian, baddest bitches and genius science best friends i absolutely LOVED to see it. they rly went ‘is anyone gonna sibling/project partner that’ and didnt wait for an answer

both wwx and jyl getting lotus ponds at the burial mounds and in lanling bc they miss lotus pier ;;;;;;;w

;;;;; wish jyl had actually gone into the burial mounds. we were robbed of jyl and wq meeting again and jyl meeting a-yuan and seeing the settlement and the homes and all ;w; at least jc did go, stab wounds and broken arms and all

wwx like... having thrown his whole life away to help the wens (yeah the sect leaders and jin guangshan in particular wanting his stygian tiger amulet was an Element but still) and not.... necessarily regretting it, but grappling with all of the consequences of it... becoming moody and drepressed at times, missing his family and lotus pier and his friends and probably simply missing being around people and causing trouble, extrovert that he is, lashing out at the wens and at a-yuan, just in general the whole messiness of that experience

the way the resentful energy does affect his temperament is rly nice bc its not too in your face,(i mean outside of the Shaky Hands of Rage) but like he clearly has a much lesser control on his anger and impulsivity (tall order) than both before bm and after hes ressurected

on that note A-YUAN BABIEST BABY BOY BEST BOY

lan zhan being like oh hey there wei ying fancy meeting u and our son here. just passing by u know how it is hmmmmMm and then PLOT TWIST having defied orders to go see him and being punished for it. oof;;

 they habent seen each other in like? a year? and now theyre tgt 10 seconds and are already parenting a child together

also lwj rly kneels down in the snow way too much to be healthy

wwx: calm down guyssss i wont lose control of demonic cultivation omgggg  .   spoiler alert: he loses control of demonic cultivation

did u enjoy cute children? good bc now the Real Pain Begins

jiang yanli and jin zixuan rly out there APROPRIATING both disaster gays AND bury ur gays huh ;w;

i KNEW jin lings birthday was gonna fuck something up but the GASP that left my body when wwx lost control of wn and killed jin zixuan .. . . 

im sorry and thank you aaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaAAAAaAAAAA 

when wen ning and wen qing were telling wwx their plan i was saying NO NO NO NO NO NO out loud in despair 

also can we talk abt how wq is definetely talking about only the both of them surrending themselves but then? everyone else just surrenders w them? IT MAKES NO SENSE LIKE WHY WOULD THEY what would be the Point

 sometimes there are some pretty gaping jumps in logic and continuity that are just like                     ?          ?

wwx: oh so when you try to murder me its justified but when i survive through dark magic and murder all of you its a "war crime"

unsurprisingly, his most feral, most spiraling moment talking to the sect leaders on the roof and attacking them and even fighting lan zhan is among my favorite scenes... its like, so painful to watch but also   so       thrilling   (and maybe my wen bbs dying arose some resentful energy in me what can i say) 

and its JUST, all they ever wanted was to do good but then... war. and trauma. and hubris. 

jiang cheng on the ground clearly thorn between what to do and feel is a Mood, lets just say

i was already crying when jyl showed up, but if i wasnt-

 i suffered SO MUCH through this series trying to figure out WHY jc would kill wwx. and when i understood. its somehow not as bad as i thought and also MUCH MUCH WORSE

a look into my group chat during the last flashback episodes:

SO ANYWAY. after the BLOOD BATH and RIPPING YOUR HEART OUT and FEEDING IT TO YOU  the untamed goes ‘ayy back to the present!! tu du dud ud du’ 

literally it ends a quarter into an episode and then KEEPS GOING i had to pause and stare blankly at the ceiling for an hour

babie cultivators and detective soulmates . i do need some cute after All of That 

(not that the pain is over LOL)

lwj is significantly less emotionally repressed in the present and its delightful. hes just ALL IN with wwx. and not just in the ‘i would and have killed various men and risked my reputation for you’ but also ‘ur tired here have a drink i brought it up cause i know u like it and it want you to be happy, always’

“when everyone praised me and wanted my power, you were the only one that challenged me. now that everyone hates me and wants me dead, youre the only one that stands by my side.” hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 

and just filling in the blanks how lan zhan searched for him. for all of those 16 years he searched for him and was punished for it and raised a-yuan, the only survivor of the burial mounds settlement, as his own in gusu......

and jiang cheng.  being the tough love uncle . having raised the yunmeng jiang clan from the rubble all alone, his whole family dead, some of it on the blame of his own brother, his siblings, his closest friends gone.......and only jin ling there needing his guidance. 

THE PARALLEL BETWEEN JIN LING BEING A LIFELINE FOR JIANG CHENG AND A-YUAN FOR LAN WANGJI AFTER THE BATTLE AT THE NIGHTLESS CITY  

great now i made myself sad

and like . the fact! that lwj and jc dislike each other!!. jc projects blame onto him for wwx both “leaving” him and indirectly causing their families deaths and when hes so consumed by it he makes wwx an enemy, lwj is there now? trying to protect him?? and lwj, who can never understand the pain that wwx , indirectly or not put jc through, but who was right there when jc tried to kill him and will never allow him to hurt wwx again. and how they like. in a way project blame of their tragedies onto each other while dealing with some type of survivor guilt and in their own way still loving wwx through it all???  amd in way its kind of fundamentally selfish but also tragically understandable? and like when u put it against the fact that after he disappears during the sunshot campaign they were looking for him together and fought together??

JUST. THE CHARACTERS. AND THE RELATIONSHIPS IN THIS. MAN. UGH. GOD. 

and like i think thats what makes it so good? its such a sad and painful and violent story, edgy even, but its compelling bc at the center of it there are all of these relationships and different types of love and hope and. :( i love it

enough crying lets talk abt wwx sleeping at the jingshi with lwj and wearing his under garment for a minute 🙏

 jin ling just has that Was Raised by JC energy tho lmao i love him

babie cultivator squad is the perfect ammount of cute and comedic relief while still bearing the weight? of the narrative in a way, both from sizhui and jin lings existences, and also. like. how do i put this. they feel hopeful? they were born after a war, they came of age at a time of relative peace, they dont hold on so closely to the resentments of their parents/father figures, they are specifically shown as more accepting and open minded. and its like.... Hope for the future  

one of the ?? things  i love the most is the fact that the main cast are often in situations where theyre hunted/running but they like. never wear disguises... just going around in their gorgeous expensive clan clothes and hair ornaments and distinctive spiritual weapons.... maybe w a straw hat on, just for kicks

wwx teacher 🥺🥺🥺

so this is why its called Yi City Misery huh

a-qing is such. an icon. im so sad. my girl even knew to leave xys dumb self rotting by the road but no one listens to her thats why theyre all dead or sad 

her and xue yang measuring each other up was so entertaining lmao

 its the funniest thing when hes like. HERES MY SAD STORY. FOR WHY IM A SADISTIC MURDERER. I BROKE MY HAND ONCE. 

like ok someone broke his hand in a horrible way, and like Poverty, i get it but also like.......... that lost the brunt of a proper sob story like, 50 sadistic murders ago bby

and i love that xingchen does not entertain that for a second hes like ‘not ?????? good enough???’ and the best thing is he wasnt even like 'u hadto be the bigger person' or sth but ' well then break that dudes hand back, rip his arm off for i care, what do the rest of us have to do w anything???” 

anjo sensato :(

xue yang is like..... the sexy sadistic evil version of a himbo..... a meanbo...

the fucked upness of xy’s feelings for xxc/ xxc and sl feelings for each other... like my dude literally gave his bf HIS EYES. and xy getting so attached to xxc .... the fucked up fake domesticity.... having him hurt sl..... then desperately trying to bring him back ...................... oof

song lan........... literally had his eyes AND tongue removed, his bfs eyes put in place, was almost killed, turned into a puppet by his bf unknowingly, manipulated by xy, sees his bf killing himself in despair.... and STILL finds the strenght to get up from there, and keep on traveling and helping people and attempting to fix xxcs soul.......... like, my man. damn. 

wangxian looking at songxiao and seeing an Actually more painful parallel for themselves. ft. that Color Coding. 

THE A-YUAN/SIZHUI REVEAL PUNCHED ME IN THE HEART but in a good way for a change

should have know that he would be the Best Boy the cute one w all the braincells

the butterfly AND the bunny lantern. i see how it is

u know is very convenient that no one can see the stark black veins on wen nings neck, ever 

BAT WEN NING 

wns face when lwj comes into wwx room like ‘:0 omg did u two finally get your shit together? good for you master wei good for u’ 

(they didnt) (yet)

DISASTER DRUNK LWJ. JUST. THRUST SOME CHICKENS TO SHOW UR RESSURECTED BAE THAT U LOVE THEM.

i have absolutely no idea WHY they gave lwj the same punishment for fighting his own sect/allies to protect the burial mounds as when they got drunk on cloud recess class days.... like? its such a ... emotional continuity error again

also is lwj gonna get an actual friend besides wwx , ever

mianmian marrying and having a family and a cute life after saying FUCK U AND UR SYSTEM TOO in a much less unhinged and dramatic way than wwx......... fills me w joy

also lol the idea that like. her husband not knowing that shes friends w satan/the boogey man/the village witch is hilarious

i love nie mingjue bc hes the resident Though Guy but also the most dramatic bitch in this show and thats Saying Something

jin ling cant have one uneventful relative can he

the fact that everyone present already knew “mo xuanyu” was wwx at the stairs is so funny, their faces are like ‘oh............ wow. that. sure is a development. shock” 

in the tradition of extremely loud whispers wwx tells lwj with twelve guards standing like one meter away from them: HEY PSH LAN ZHAN PRETEND IM FORCING YOU TO STAY W ME DO IT

oh my god oh my god

the absolute Yearning on his face when he leaves wwx and a-yuan at the burial mounds and refuses to stay for dinner was already Enough but the fact?? they brought it back?? to this declaration of love?? their expressions??????? strike me dead right now just go ahead

lFor Legal Reasons We Cant Kiss but we will have a very sappy declaration of love and trust and look at each other in way that is the actualization of 💞💘💗💖💓💘💞💗💖💘💗💖💕💞

also icb all the sect leaders and guards are standing there watching them say they like like each other with a dozen swords pointing at their neck

i enjoyed the depiction of the fickle public perception and how easily it can be used to scapegoat people. when the sect leaders turn on jgy and wwx knows thats its more for convenience than anything else...

poor lxc is literally like 'oh so when YOUR problematic boyfriend gets called evil its a misunderstanding but when its MY problematic bf-'

ok like i cant get over nmj let jgy play a song that messed with his temperament at all, like maN u KNEW he might be shady wth

wwx: “hey dont say anything bad abt lan zhan hes not an arrogant dick, thats just his face. 

ME ON THE OTHER HAND"

the cultivators as wwx is poking holes in their narrative is literally *nazaré meme*

"wei wuxian-!" "what did i break your leg, too?" not to be problematic but i laughed so hard

not as hard as "you dont have the rank to talk to me " tho

i Enjoy that, over the course of story, wwx sees that... theres nothing truly to Do, but move on. he saw how his arrogance and his mistakes hurt others, and hes trying to fix what he can, but he already did die for his mistakes and there are things he cant fix and that's. just how it is. even towards jgy, the narrative doesn't go gleefully and completely with "lets make THEM pay bc theyre the big bad" bc its not that simple, and it wouldn't lead anywhere but more pain...

re him and jiang cheng and the wens and kinda. isnt that what nhs did? scheming to displace jgy out of revenge more than any justice and doing so in the most painful way?

idk if that actually makes sense im truly just babbling

i thought the scene at the lotus pond would be CUTE but the context was PAIN again

jiang cheng finding out about his golden core and his conflict with wwx at the guanyin temple .... destroyed me but in a nice way kinda.... same way it destroys him look at his face oh god

and. the fact??? he sacrificed himself for wwx?? first?? and he'll probably never tell anyone much less wwx???? keeps me up at night

i havent decided if the neckbreak transition between jgy does sth super Evil or does he he does OR Does He yes he does O R does heeeee is sth i dislike or not

jin guangyao and wei wuxians most interesting parallel is that... theyve both seen 'hmm hey this system is fucked up' and wwx went 'so fuck it all i will renounce it and challenge it' and jgy went 'so fuck it i will use all of it to my advantage and manipulate it to my goals and whims'

the fact jgys mom was actually great and he loved her and his whole issue w it was more than simply being ashamed of being a bastard kinda got me ngl

never trust a dude with a fan.

nhs and jgy: the first rule to a convoluted and decades spanning violent revenge plot is to have fun and be yourself! 

when a-yuan finally FINALLY remembers ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; wen ning has someone in his family back and a-yuan has someone to talk abt his wen family and wwx has him back bc he survived and lwj raised him anD HES THEIR SON. THEYRE MARRIED AND HAVE A SON. UGH.

and theyre allowed to heal. everyone is allowed to try and recover and be happy

netflix put all of the 3 endings on top of each other and it looks kinda weird actually BUT I DONT EVEN MIND :’’’’’’’’’)

the gasp that left me when lwj says ‘wei ying’ and wwx turns.........

there was also a screen with ‘thank you mxtx for creating these characters, we hope their wishes come true’ and i might. have cried then too. maybe. 

that was . a ride. as is proven by this behemot of a ramble clearly i just really needed and Outlet. i am currently trying to convince dumb monkey brain to not consume the other medias of mdzs immediately bc i REALLY need to like. live. a life. and take care of real responsibilities.  *longest oh boi ever*

[ouyangzizhensdad]

RE: WWX and his arc being about trauma. I got into the fandom through CQL and the first time I saw it I actually read a lot of his actions post the burning of Lotus Cove as being influenced by his trauma. He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. He seems to be self medicating with alchohol (which WQ kinda calls him out on). He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. He avoids all kinds (1/3)

Of reminders of his tramua, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely igonres it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. Plus, a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive, and there are just in general a lot of points (2/3)

Where it's made clear that he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example), but none of that ever really gets dealt with so all of those issues are still hanging under the surface even if they're not apparent all the time. I mean, this is just my take, but at least imo WWX ticks a lot of the checkboxes for PTSD in the drama and it explains a lot about the way he acts and the bad decisions he makes. Hope this was helpful! (3/3)

I'm only referring to the drama btw, not the novel (which I haven't read yet). My memory is terrible so I'm not sure if I made it clear or not lol. Anyways, have a good day ^^

Hi there, 

I am always curious when people who have only engaged with CQL end up engaging with my novel-only meta blog but perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised: if CQL posts end up in the mdzs tag, why not the opposite? I’ve seen some of my novel meta reblogged and tagged with “the untamed” and “CQL” so maybe the answer is already out there, staring at me in the face! 

I’ll start by saying that I do not wish to really argue with people’s interpretations of CQL since I consider that MDZS and CQL are very different works because so many changes were made in the process of adapting the novel, and I personally have no interest in analysing CQL except wrt  how it can help us better understand the novel (seeing certain elements removed or changed may help us understand why they mattered in the first place or what their use was). So I will speak to the arguments that could be applied to the novel and why *I* don’t think WWX’s arc in the novel is about trauma, and why I don’t think that picking up certain behaviours that can be exhibited by people with PTSD (but not exclusively by people with PTSD) is enough in itself to support the idea that a character’s arc is about trauma/shaped by PTSD. That does not mean that my interpretation is the only acceptable one--I am aware that a lot of people disagree with me on this and see trauma as a central theme/central part of WWX’s arc--and so I expect that a lot of people will disagree with my points (hopefully after they’ve read this post in good faith). And that’s perfectly fine: how likely is it that we can find another person who will agree 100% with our own interpretation of a work of fiction? And having divergent opinions floating around the fandom, or having to develop counter-arguments is a good way to strengthen our own pov if we don’t find ourselves convinced by that other interpretation, so it’s all good. 

So first, I’ll address the biggest point of my argument before moving to address more specific points you raise in your ask. For me, WWX’s characterisation is not about trauma but about resilience. 

So first, let’s clarify some things. Going through adversity/experiencing a situation that is difficult =/= experiencing trauma. Trauma is a concept referring to a potential response to going through adversity/experiencing something distressing or disturbing. In short, trauma as it is conceptualised and understood is not universal: not only in the sense that is a spatiotemporally specific concept used to make certain experiences intelligible, but as the reaction to difficult events (as well, what is considered to be an experience that falls under that concept is not itself universal and can take many gorms, and the behaviours and thoughts associated with trauma are generally not exclusive to it, ie having certain behaviours/thought processes is not an automatic proof that someone is dealing with trauma/ptsd). So after all this word vomit I want to clarify that my intent is not to suggest that WWX doesn’t go through experiences that are likely to cause trauma, but that to me, what is being portrayed is a different reaction to these events: resilience (if a slightly more “fictional” portrayal of resilience than what it would be presented in psychology/psychiatry). 

Resilience refers to how people adapt or recover successfully from adversity/distressing situation/stress. That does not mean that people’s first reaction to adversity/distressing situations will be not defined by negative emotions, of course. For instance, I don’t think WWX’s heightened paranoia/emotional state directly after the fall of LP when he goes to look for JC is an indication of trauma because at this point WWX is still deep in the middle of that moment of adversity: he’s still a fugitive in the middle of a war, in the middle of danger. This also doesn’t mean that people cannot still have some temporary negative reactions to things that happened to them, afterwards: WWX having to pause when JC presents him with Suibian after he returns from Mass Grave Hill is not inherently an indication of trauma as it can be read that his sword a reminder of the difficult sacrifice he made--and the consequences he faced as a result (just because a situation was not traumatic doesn’t mean we enjoy revisiting it).

Why I think that WWX’s arc or characterisation is about resilience rather than trauma is because of many things, but mostly I want to point out two sections of the novel in particular. 

First, this characterisation of WWX through JYL that we get relatively early in the novel:

Most memories from back then were already blurred. Yet, Jin Ling’s mother, Jiang Yanli, remembered all of them, and even told him quite a few. She said that, after his father heard of the news that his parents both died in battle, he had always dedicated himself to finding the child that these past friends had left behind. After searching for a while, he finally found the child in Yiling. 

The first time they met, Wei Wuxian was kneeling on the ground, eating the fruit peels that somebody tossed on the ground. Yiling’s winter and spring were quite cold, yet the child only wore thin layers. His knees were already tattered, and on his feet were two different shoes that didn’t fit at all. As he was looking down, searching for fruit peels, Jiang Fengmian called him. He still remembered that there was a “Ying” in his name, so he lifted his head. Although his cheeks were both red and chapped from the cold, he still wore a smile. 

Jiang Yanli said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy. Although it sounded a bit heartless, it really was not bad.

This refers to a time of his life that is extremely difficult: he lost both his parents suddenly, at a young age, became suddenly homeless with no means to feed himself except to beg, and yet the only trauma he seems to carry from this experience is related to dogs. To me, this is a clear move from MXTX to position WWX as the kind of protagonist who can face a storm and keep his smile on his face. I can imagine that some people take it perhaps as a subversion, as the text telling us that WWX is weathering it all with a smile but underneath it all he is just a bundle of unaddressed trauma. And that’s certainly a possible interpretation, but it’s not mine. In this case I think the text is being straightforward. What we see of WWX also seems to support that: the way WWX just rolls with being brought back from the death, how easily he finds a way to adapt to things, etc.

I also find it meaningful that the novel choses to include in its ultimate chapter this discussion as part of its wrap-up of WWX’s journey and of Wangxian’s relationship.

After they left the shop, Wei Wuxian still sat on Xiao Pingguo while Lan Wangji held the reins in front.Swaying left and right atop the donkey, Wei Wuxian took the flute from his waist and placed it by his lips. The limpid notes flew across the sky like birds. Lan Wangji halted and listened quietly.

It was the song he sang for Wei Wuxian when they were stuck in the Xuanwu cave. It was also the song that Wei Wuxian just so happened to have played at Dafan Mountain, the song that enabled Lan Wangji to confirm his identity.

When he finished, Wei Wuxian winked his left eye towards Lan Wangji.

“How was it? Beautiful, huh?”

Lan Wangji slowly nodded. “For once.”

Wei Wuxian knew that ‘for once’ referred to how his memory was good for once. He could not help but smile.

“Don’t always be so angry about it. It was my fault in the past, alright? Besides, my terrible memory should be accredited to my mom.” Wei Wuxian propped his arm on Xiao Pingguo’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand. “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

Of course, this is not a direct reference to resilience as it is explored in psychology. But to me it speaks to that idea: one of the biggest lesson WWX has kept with him, one of his only memory of--and thus legacy from--his parents, is this idea that we should not hold so much in our hearts. It also reframes his bad memory as being the result of a philosophy, of an approach to life that not just about being grateful/paying your debts to others, but also a form of resilience, in a sense. 

As well, I find that a lot of people who go with the trauma interpretation see WWX’s actions and thoughts processes dyring his YLLZ’s days as being the result of his ptsd, where I personally read it as the influence of modao. I am aware as well that some people do not think that modao actually harmed WWX during that period of his life, but I don’t think that LWJ would have been worried if there were not reasons to believe it would:

One against two, Lan Wangji still refused to back off. He gazed at Wei Wuxian, “Wei Ying, for cultivating an evil path you would eventually have to pay. Throughout time, there has not been a single exception.”

Wei Wuxian, “I can pay.”

Seeing how unconcerned he seemed to be, Lan Wangji lowered his voice, “The path would not only damage your body, but your heart as well (此道损身，更损心性。)”

So now, onto the specific points you raised in the ask.

Self-medicating with alcohol: WWX is shown to enjoy and drink large amounts of alcohol before the fall of LP and after most of the events of the novel have unfolded. In the novel, while WQ tries to make WWX stop drinking, it is as likely to believe that it is for his health (now that he doesn’t have a golden core) than it would be because she was worried he was self-medicating. As well, heavy drinking is a very normalized behaviour (although most physicians don’t think it’s a good thing) in a lot of cultures and times, and considering WWX’s higher tolerance and his general demeanor while imbricated, his drinking is not shown to have a negative effect on his ability to live his life. The line between “self-soothing” (normal aspect of being humans dealing with emotions and hardships) and “self-medicating” (pathological) is hard to trace with alcohol consumption. As well, just because people with PTSD may self-medicate with alchohol doesn’t mean all people who self-medicate with alcohol do it because of PTSD. 

He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. As I mentioned briefly before, WWX is at the time a fugitive in the middle of a war: he’s still in the middle of those stressful events and his paranoia is not necessarily a maladaptive response since they are still very much fugitives in the middle of a war. Trauma is not really your reaction during but in the aftermath. It would be more telling if WWX were still exhibiting signs of paranoia in situations where he would have no reasons to. 

He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. I’m not certain at which reactions you are referring to here, but especially considering that some of this might be chalked up to acting choices since this is based on CQL, I probably won’t address this one point too much in relation to the novel. I do want to emphasize though that we’ve seen prior to Sunshot campaign that WWX can be quite impulsive in certain situations (hitting JZX for insulting Shijie, which he does both before and after the events of the Sunshot Campaign). As well, I do think it’s important to remember that he is still in the middle of the war during the Sunshot campaign, and that he is also hiding something pretty important from the people close to him and living a sort of double life, on top of experiencing fatigue/hunger in a way he hasn’t for years due to the loss of his golden core. In short, there are a lot of things going on that can be used to explain what can be seen as “over-reactions” without necessarily going with PTSD.

avoids all kinds  reminders of his trauma, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. I’ve broached in my previous discussions, but it’s also pertinent to remember his mom’s philosophy: we can also see this as WWX trying to leave in the pass this difficult sacrifice he made in order to move forward. 

He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely ignores it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. I have to disagree with that interpretation of WWX and WWX’s actions, but again this might just be a case of CQL-only vs novel-only interpretations of the character. One thing WWX thinks about being reborn in a “lunatic’s” body is that he’ll get to have fun, the way he never could when his actions reflected on others. So while at times WWX flaunts propriety, he is aware of how his actions can impact others and show in different situations that he is aware of propriety. His choice to protect the Wen Remnants goes against that, for sure, but it isn’t necessarily a case of not understanding the possible social fallout so much as putting other things (ie his life-debt towards WN and WQ) before propriety, as we can see for example in this exchange.

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

“I don’t need anyone to speak for me.”

[...]

Swords unsheathed, the two stared at each other for a while. Neither was willing to take a single step back. A while later, Jiang Cheng spoke, “Wei Wuxian, have you still not realized what the situation at hand is like? Do you really need me to say it out loud? If you insist on protecting them, then I won’t be able to protect you.”

“There’s no need to protect me. Just let go.”

Jiang Cheng’s face twisted.

Wei Wuxian, “Just let go. Tell the world that I defected. From now on, no matter what Wei Wuxian does, it’d have nothing to do with YunmengJiangShi.”

“… All for the Wen Sect…? Wei Wuxian, do you have a savior complex? Is it that you’ll die if you don’t stand up for someone and stir up some trouble?”

Wei Wuxian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects YunmengJiangShi in the future.”

a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive Which ones, specifically? I’m not trying to be obtuse, but I’m not sure which ones you mean. 

he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example) It needs to be said that the crying is only in CQL (it was an acting choice by XZ). My memory is playing tricks on me, but I think pre-rebirth we only see him cry after he kills JZX and after JYL’s death? Someone please fact-check me on this. 

Since I don’t believe it was MXTX’s intent to make WWX’s characterisation and arc about trauma, I do feel like interpreting the different behaviours as signs of his PTSD might lead us to miss out on other potential interpretations or meanings behind these choices, if we put aside the PTSD angle. It may also lead us to deny the text the possibility to signify something different through these behaviours and signs, especially on a thematic level--to explore something about how events and emotions shape us in a manner that exists outside of modern psychiatric classification.

TLDR (because god this got long): My point is not that WWX is unaffected by the things that happened to him or the things he’s done during this portion of his life: of course he is! Especially as they are happening to him, or when he is still stuck in a very difficult situation. But I don’t think his character and his arc is about trauma but instead about resilience. That, at the end of MDZS, WWX is still the person JYL described: No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them.

[agendratum]

the mind-melt gifset got me thinking, so please allow me to mumble some more

there are always a lot of discussions of like who fell in love first? who realised his feelings first? is wei wuxian actually that dumb? (spoiler: he isn’t and i will fight you) and so on and so on. and i have some thoughts on the subject and the mind-melt scene is helping me to form those thoughts. i don’t claim to be right and those thoughts to be canon (even though i just said that i will fight you), but here they are

they definitely notice each other at almost the same time. lan zhan’s first appearance is a very fond memory for wei ying and he holds on to that memory even after he died and came back to life. and i mean you also can just see his reaction, it’s not rocket science.

lan zhan doesn’t notice him immediately as he’s kinda busy and so he doesn’t pay attention to people. and you know how he is, always alone, used to his peers seeing him as some kind of perfect standard. but then wei wuxian says something smart about a “corpse” that no one else notices and, wow, that is exactly a way to get second jade of lan’s attention. better not ruin that first impression by yelling and breaking a bunch of rules later. oh well

then the rooftop fight happens and i would say that for lan zhan this is it. he yet to really love wei ying with his full soul (you know, at least get to know him first, also get through all this repression), but he’s in love and he’s pissed. wei ying? i think he’s Impressed. i don’t know at what point he really falls in love (but i’m going to tell you by what point he’s definitely in love already), but he meets his equal and he’s impressed and he likes him and he wants to be his friend. and then he likes him a lot. a lot

please gaze upon this screenshot that perfectly captures the dynamic in the begging

i don’t think cql wei wuxian is oblivious (and i don’t know anything about any other wei wuxians so this all is just about cql wwx (and cql lwj)). but god, i think he is a teenager, and he needs time to understand what he’s feeling, and also he has this very twisted relationship with the idea of being loved. and also lan wangji isn’t very good at not being pissed at wei wuxian at any given time. but look at the fondness on wei ying’s face in this screencap. it’s a very brief moment, and lan zhan is too drunk to notice anyway. he knows he likes lwj a lot, he’s perfectly aware of that. but there are still miles and miles to go before they both can peacefully accept this wild concept.

fast forward to the cold caves, that is where lan wangji just accepts his fate. he’s still pissed about that, but now he knows that he can’t outrun his feelings and he’s stuck with wei ying, both metaphorically and literally. so he binds them with his ribbon, because at this point why the fuck not? it’s too late anyway, he’s too far gone. might as well get engaged. 

by the way place your bets on the time period when lan wangji writes wangxian. cause i have no idea.

then lantern ceremony happens and dare i say that by that point

the boys are both in love

but i would say that lan zhan is in love and still doesn’t fully understand what to do with that. he’s quite repressed, confused and very not used to that. while wei ying is in love and he doesn’t think that he’s good enough, so he just doesn’t think too hard about it. why focus on it, when you can focus on having fun and spending time with lan zhan who’s slowly getting less pissed of with you? sounds like a plan

then they go on a little adventure, and by that point lan zhan is actually happy that wei ying is going with him. they meet their relationship goals, (spoiler: maybe don’t make xxc x sl your goals, they kinda really fuck up in the process of their relationship) they yearn, they pine and then they part. by the time they are parting, both are pretty much aware of what’s happening. lan zhan doesn’t really want to leave, but he has to. and wei ying, well, he wants to sleep on lwj’s roof.

when they meet next time, they are already at this point of relationship where you will never admit your feelings to each other, but you will jump in front of a sword to save the other’s life. we’ve all been there, right? 

and then there is the cave. 

i need to remind you and myself that after they leave this cave, the next time they’re going to see each other will be in the 20th episode. a reunion after one or both of them have been through hell.

but back to the cave. after all, this post started because of mind-melt gifset, remember? 

the cave may be famous for the “you are fond of mianmian?” moment but remember, wei ying is trying not to think to hard about his own feelings, and lan zhan isn’t very good at conveying his, soooo you can see where the problem is, right?

there are other factors too, of course. they’re stuck in a cave with a deadly monster, lan wangji’s sect is in danger right in that moment, his brother is missing, the war is coming, he’s in pain, he’s tired and on top of all that, the boy he’s in love with is right there in his face being very helpful with his wound but not very helpful with lan zhan’s confused feelings getting more confused.

same goes for wei wuxian, who knows that the cloud recesses was destroyed, knows that his sect is in danger next, has to worry about his little brother getting somewhere, ideally home, safely, also aware of the fact that they are stuck in the cave with a deadly monster and there is one very wounded lan zhan on his hands who isn’t being super cooperative right now

it’s not the best time to think about all those feelings but it’s the only time they have. 

and we all know lan zhan is going through some shit with all this “mianmian” nonsense. but let me point out some ways that wei ying shows his love in this scene without saying anything. rushing to tend to lwj’s wounds and giving him all the medicine that’s left, trying to comfort him and distract from the thoughts about his sect, covering lan zhan with his robe when he finally fall asleep 

and then waking up before lan zhan (did he even have any sleep?) and putting his ribbon back on him, so lan zhan doesn’t feel nervous about it. (allow me to scream about that for a sec) (also he takes his robe away before lan zhan wakes up so don’t tell me this boy doesn’t know what he’s doing, he’s just, you know, being wei wuxian in the process)

so take into account all this wall of text i wrote and consider what happens next. mind-melt. and listen, i don’t know how this spell works. who even knows? cql lore doesn’t explain shit and for that scene i’m actually glad it doesn’t. because i can just imagine how it works. ha!

and how i imagine it works, inspired by some other posts, is that some of your thoughts and feelings melt too, not just the thoughts you want to transfer.

it’s the face he makes. why does he smile like that? why why why

i already mumbled a bit in the tags of that post but here is what i think. they may not get the full picture from that mind-melt, but they get the idea. maybe it’s the warmth, maybe it’s the comfort, the trust, the fact that they’re already been through so much together and did so much for each other. but it’s all in there. 

another reminder. by that point lan zhan already wrote wangxian (and he will later transfer it right into wei ying’s mind alongside a canonical wangxian fanvid). 

lan zhan opens his mind to wei ying and wei ying give his that smile in response. and i feel like they just pour their feelings into each other’s minds. not all of them. and they don’t have time to reflect on it. but here they are. really makes me wonder how their reunion would look in other universe, where wwx doesn’t come back as a traumatized necromancer. 

there are reasons why wei ying decides to push lan zhan away when he’s back. and some of the reasons come from this cave, this exact moment, i think. he know he earned lwj’s trust, he knows lwj cares about him, he knows what it’s like to make a second jade of lan smile. and he’s afraid to lose it all so he just doesn’t allow himself to have it back in the first place. he also knows that lan zhan can see through his bullshit. and he in so much bullshit now, he doesn’t want to scare him? dissapoint him? make him more worried than he already is? 

and i’m sure he knows exactly why he cares about lan zhan so much but now he cannot be allowed to think about that. 

and you know when he finally think about that? when that sinks and he breaks his own heart because it’s too late now and they run our of time? their reunion in burial mounds. that is when, i think, wei wuxian finally admits how far gone he is for lan wangji but it’s too late. he’s allowed to have this last happy memory of lan zhan and then he has to watch him leave forever. 

when wei ying is back to life 16 years later, they both are both aware of their feelings. they just don’t know how the other one feels now. they need some time to figure it out but they catch up pretty soon. the end :) 

[xiyao-feels]

Xi//cheng :

Okay, I'm putting this under a cut for negativity reasons, because I really did get negative

I don't ship this at all, and tbh I think the way I usually see it shipped involves a not insignificant misreading of LXC and often also of LXC's relationship with JGY.

So the thing about LXC is that he is, in many ways, a very private person, or at least private with himself. Here are the people he seems to be close with: LQR, LWJ, presumably LSZ, NMJ, and to some extent NHS. And JGY.

That is, his family, his childhood friend (and his childhood friend's younger brother), aaaaand JGY. And imho the only people on this list he's emotionally intimate with are JGY and LWJ! I don't think he's even friends with JC, in canon. Like, obviously they know each other, but friends? He's kind to JC a few times, he cares about him in the sense he would prefer he not get hurt, but like, that's LXC about most people; there's nothing personal about it. I think probably their strongest emotional connection on LXC's part that JC is co-raising the child JGY is also raising. And JC...like, I guess pre-timeskip he appreciates praise/kindness from a respected authority figure, I guess that's not nothing? But that's kind of the extent of it.

(I do honestly think that if you're going to ship LXC with someone—as a matter of like, canon interpretation, obviously you can grab the characters and do whatever the heck you want with them if that's what you're into?—you should compare how he acts with JGY. Casual touching, the way they're so often in sync, the way he looks at him, the way he seeks him out and we see them together so often, the way he reacts to him, in MDZS the way they're always talking together—like, I think in some ways for CQL people, of whom I am mostly one, LXC meeting MY so early on can form a misleading impression of his character, because he does open right up to MY, but that's actually very specific to MY! It's not how he usually is at all. He's friendly and kind to people, but usually it's basically impersonal, on his part. And I don't think how he is with any other character can compare; certainly not JC!)

Okay, what about post-canon? JC helping LXC move on from his grief, and all that?

This doesn't work for me on a whole bunch of levels, I'll be honest. Like, first, JC isn't interested in LXC or his grief. Jin Ling is his first priority and HO BOY has JL been through a lot. Plus, you know, now he's a Sect Leader. (He's definitely not going to have an easy time—I recommend reading his interaction with SLY post-temple in MDZS, actually. Granted in CQL LWJ becomes CC, and for JL specifically that's probably better than most alternatives, and certainly than NHS). Emotionally, JC is also dealing with WWX having returned, the whole core reveal, and his own complicated feelings about JGY's death. And...JC is enormously competent in many ways, but dealing with complicated emotional tangles isn't I think particularly one of them. Plus as I said in the JC/WQ post, I have a hard time with JC as he is by the end of canon ending up in a solid romantic relationship at all.

And then there's LXC. The man doesn't want to move on from JGY. He may...think he should want to be more functional? But I think that's mostly as far as it goes. He /definitely/ doesn't want to let go of JGY and start a relationship with someone new; I want to say to idea would horrify him but tbh I don't think it's even plausible enough for him to be horrified about.

But even beyond that, I really do think that LXC is just simply not interested in having any kind of actual personal relationship with almost anyone. He's a lot like LWJ in this, I think, it's just less obvious with him because he is also friendly, kind, and social. After JGY's death I can /maybe/ imagine him making a connection with someone who—it would have to be not just grieves JGY but grieves some of the same things that LXC does, from a similar angle. But that's kind of it.

I mean, I also think CQL LXC is probably going to kill himself. So, uh, that also complicates things. But even putting that aside.

And they're just...not compatible.

I can see the appeal of both of them recovering, but...I really don't think this way of doing it works with the characters.

[crossdressingdeath]

Seeing someone say JYL ended up enabling JC’s attitude and treatment towards WWX by downplaying things even when they got older and JC became more like their mother made me feel like the shocked Pikachu meme. I’ve been trying to find the way to describe that part of JYL, JC and WWX’s relationship and that just nailed it perfectly

Yeah, it’s a good way of putting it. JYL’s whole thing is like... it’s very much a situation where love ends up causing more problems than it solves? Like, JYL loves WWX and wants what’s best for him but she also loves JC, and it never seems to occur to her that she’s in a situation where supporting one means not supporting the other. Basically she’s so determined to be the neutral party that she remains neutral even when neutrality is itself picking a side, and she never seems to realise that she has reached that point where not picking a side is picking a side. And while she isn’t meaning to hurt WWX, she does a lot more harm to him by forcing this sort of uneasy peace that shatters the moment an actual crisis comes up than she would have by actually picking a side and sticking with it. And of course acting like both sides were as bad as each other for sure contributed to WWX thinking that he was as much to blame for things going wrong as JC was; that belief didn’t last once he started spending time with LWJ, but it was a thing. Like... I keep coming back to that scene in CQL where JC threatens WWX with a dog and WWX is clearly genuinely frightened and JYL laughs. Imagine growing up in an environment where the person you love most and who cares about you and wants you to be happy more than anyone else in your home environment sees you being threatened with your literal worst fear and treats it like a joke. You wouldn’t feel like you could say anything, because if it was serious they wouldn’t be laughing, right? It raises the question of just how much of JC’s behaviour might have been mitigated if JYL had made it clear that that wasn’t okay and led WWX to understand that he shouldn’t have to put up with it if it hurt or upset him; naturally JC’s shittiness isn’t JYL’s fault, but seeing her laughing at JC treating WWX’s fear as something to be used for a cheap joke at WWX’s expense when she knows how serious that fear is... Well, it doesn’t exactly paint JYL in the best light.

...You know, thinking about it there’s a fair chance that JYL’s neutrality actually did more harm to JC and WWX’s relationship than good, in the long run. I mean, if she’d fully acknowledged that things between WWX and JC really weren’t healthy and forced them to discuss that and come to terms with it and find a way to deal with that, even if the end result was WWX leaving Lotus Pier entirely and them not interacting all that often at least it would all be out in the open. I don’t doubt that part of the reason WWX held on as long as he did was because JYL wanted him to. If she had said “No, this isn’t okay, you can’t treat our brother like this”... even if JC hadn’t listened to her and tried to do better it would be something that had been discussed, and if he kept treating WWX poorly even after JYL intervened WWX would know that this wasn’t an accident or a failure to properly communicate but an active decision on JC’s part, especially since JC wouldn’t continue to behave like that around JYL. Basically pushing her brothers to act like everything was fine between them because she didn’t want to have to pick a side was, while understandable, not exactly a good call from a “wanting a healthy relationship” position. Even if things hadn’t gone the way they did, I don’t doubt for a second that as soon as JYL left to get married and wasn’t around enforcing the peace all the time JC and WWX’s relationship would deteriorate rapidly, because “playing nice so our sister doesn’t worry” meant that they had nothing keeping them playing nice (for a given value of nice on JC’s side) once she left.

[jcisthebestfightme]

BJYX Song #15: Summer’s Wind

BJYX Song List

Disclaimer: This is all a dream. Actually though, I’ve procrastinated this song so much that it started haunting me in my dream as an overdue assignment for school so I definitely need to write this to get it out of my system.

The song I wanted to write about today is “Summer’s Wind (夏天的风)” by Landy Wen in 2004. This song’s melody was written by Jay Chou, one of dd’s favorite artist. This song wasn’t super famous back then but now is often seen in tiktok in China because of covers. I’m not sure if it was as widely popular when gg quoted in 2018. Gg knows a lot of songs and often dig up sorta obscured (at least not super popular) songs that he likes. 

An extensive backstory about gg’s post on this song and his trip in Japan can be found in this amazing post written by @twolonesomestars. The most important kadian about this post is that it was the 521th Weibo post and 18th Weibo video (he had to delete some stuff to get here.) Also, something that wasn’t mentioned was that his post kadian at the time “12:43″ and 2:43 in the song corresponds to the line “I look at your cool smile, yet there are times when it’s shy.” I think this line perfectly describes dd and also gg has said that his first impression of dd is shy, instead of the cold aloof description other people usually give him. This kadian further strengthens that this song is about dd. We have also seen gg kadian the time of his post to the lyrics of songs before, as seen in “Nan Hai” and a song from the album “Kepler” (not that song though). 

I’m going to channel in gg’s circumstance after filming TU and Japan trip for this analysis.

七月的風懶懶的 (July’s wind is lazy)

連雲都變熱熱的 (Even the wind became hot)

不久後天悶悶的 (Soon, the weather is getting stuffy)

一陣雲後雨下過 (Rain came after a cloud went by)

Right off the bat, as with the title, there are a lot of motifs we’ve already seen before like “wind”, “cloud”, and the over theme of “summer.” To me, “wind” is something this is transient and can symbolize feelings that can come and go. This is probably something gg was struggling with, whether his feelings for dd or dd’s feelings for him is transient like “July’s wind”. The first stance also described the discomfort of summer’s heat, which we know they complained about when filming CQL. Metaphorically though, I think the heat and “stuffiness” represents stuffed-up emotions, and the “rain” that came washes away those feeling and brought some clarity, which may be what gg came to realized post-Japan.

氣溫 爬升到無法再忍受 (Temperature, has climbed to a point of unbearable)

索性閉上了雙眼 (I just closed my eyes)

讓想象任意改變 (Let imagination morph and change freely)

I think the “temperature” and “heat” described can be about the electrifying connection and feelings between two people. It’s almost like the sexual tension has climbed to a point of unbearable limit for them, but they don’t know what to do with it. With reality that is hitting them after filming, they can only imagine all the different scenarios and happy ending they can have. 

場景 兩個人一起散著步 (The scene is two people walking together)

我的臉也輕輕貼著你胸口 (My face softly rest against your chest)

聽到心跳 (I hear your heartbeat)

在乎我 和天氣一樣溫度 ([You] care about me, just like the weather’s temperature)

Doesn’t this entire part just sounds like a very vivid picture of the entire filming of TU, especially since the first line even said a “scene”? Two people walking together, one in white, one in black. While filming, gg often have to rest into dd’s arms. It’s all very pure and romantic. No wonder this song can remind gg of the summer in 2018.

夏天的風 我永遠記得 (Summer’s wind, I will always remember)

I think summer’s wind is something carries feelings for gg. He said he will always remember that summer and those feelings. After filming wrapped, I think he wasn’t sure how long this wind will carry. There was too much uncertainty at that moment. In the end of 2019, we know he sang a song about summer’s wind lasting throughout the year into other season so we received the answer that this wind, and thus love, will persist. But in end of summer in 2019, this certainty was not there. All gg can be sure of is that he will always remember that summer, those wind, those mountain, because it’s very precious to him. 

清清楚楚的說你愛我 (Clearly say you love me)

I can see dd being very honest about his feelings that summer. Dd is not the type to hide what he feels and he probably expressed to gg clearly how he felt. But I think gg needed some time to think so he went to Japan, also to shed the character of WWX and his love for LWJ. But I think this line is gg acknowledging that he knows of dd’s feelings and how candid, sincere, and unambiguous dd’s feelings are. It also juxtaposed gg’s possibly jumbled feelings. I don’t think it’s that gg love dd less or that he’s uncertain of his feelings. I personally think he was certain of his feelings on 6/22/18 when he posted “If I were a song”. But I think he has a lot of different emotions that is coming to him all at once and he need some time to sort them out one by one. I can relate to having overwhelming emotions and also thoughts due to too many concerns and I think gg is also the type to get in that state.

我看見你酷酷的笑容 (I saw your cool smile)

也有靦腆的時候 (There are also times when it’s shy)

This is the line that I think gg kadian to describe dd. “Cool smile” is a very good description of dd, and probably the way most people who don’t know him well will say that is their first impression of him. Dd seems aloof and is overall a cool guy but unapproachable. But gg was the only that said that dd was “shy” to him on first impression. He saw through dd right away, that dd is hiding behind a shell of ice because he’s scared. Dd is a very sensitive person and he’s afraid that others won’t like him or how others see him so he protect himself by acting cold. But like this line and also gg’d interview that he has said before, once dd opens up, he’s very warm and adorable, and that dd likes to laugh a lot. It’s such a precious relationship to have someone that truly understands you and see the best of you. 

夏天的風 正暖暖吹過 (Summer’s wind, is currently warmly blowing)

穿過頭髮 穿過耳朵 (Going through hair, going through ears)

The “summer’s wind”, which are the emotions from the summer is currently passing through the entirety of the body, so it’s enveloping all parts of gg and dd. “Hair” and “ears” also also parts of the body that ggdd like to touch each other often when filming, as we seen from the bts clips. If I remember correctly, gg’s ears are very sensitive and doesn’t really like other people touching them (I remember a clip of his X-Nine’s member either touching or blowing into his ears and he flinched away.) But we can see dd touching gg’s ears in the TU bts. This means that gg lets dd have these intimate touches, just like these summer’s wind.

你和我的夏天 (Yours and my summer)

風輕輕說著 (The wind is softly saying)

This line is probably the most straightforward part of the song. The “summer” that just ended in gg’s post in 2018, belongs to 2 people. This the message of “summer’s wind”. The wind is saying that this summer is love between 2 people, and these 2 people can only be ggdd. 

溫柔懶懶的海風 (Gentle and lazy ocean’s wind)

吹到高高的山峰 (Blow up high to the mountain’s peak)

溫的風 山的鋒 (The warmth of the wind, the peak of the mountain)

吹成了山風 (Has became mountain’s wind)

This part to me is signifying change in feelings. The “gentle” and “lazy” warm ocean’s wind is like the ambiguous, fun, but uncertain relationship they had in the summer. They’re in a warm and safe place for these feelings to be able to developed, since they were  pretty sheltered when filming. But once filming has ended, this warm “ocean’s wind” has converted into “mountain’s wind.” Mountain’s wind to me is much colder and harsher, and signifies the harshness of reality and the difficulties they will need to face going back to the real world. But it can also be that this warm, soft wind has now strengthened, that it can become sharper, and able to face the harsh climates of the mountains. 

為什麼你不在 (Why are you not here?)

問山風你會回來 (Asking the mountain’s wind if you will come back)

Gg went to Japan with his friends (I think friends from college. He did not go with wzc btw, I just found this out like 2 weeks ago lol.) But dd was not there. And I think part of gg’s reluctancy at this moment is that he wasn’t sure if dd will always be as certain of his love as they did that summer. I don’t think it has anything to do with dd’s age, character, or anything he said. Honestly for anyone that has ever been in love, especially when the relationship just started, there will be some insecurity and you worry if the other person will love you forever or if they will change their minds and abandon you. I think this is a feeling that we can all relate to. So right now, gg may feel like it’s just him and “mountain’s wind”, which is the converted version of his love form the summer, and he’s unsure if dd will come back for him but it seems to me like gg is waiting on the mountains if dd every come, just like how WWX waited at the end of TU on the mountain for LWJ to come get him.

Overall, I think this song “Summer’s Wind” represent an end of gg’s ambiguous feelings of flirtation in the summer of 2018 while filming TU. In this post, he said “Summer’s wind has ended.” But I don’t think this necessary means his feelings for dd has ended (Spoiler alert, it didn’t.) It’s just that that stage of their relationship has come to a close and they need to find a way to open up a new chapter of their life together.