#cw fandom discourse

[intothedysphoria]

Have we had “Billy was an active participant in his mother’s abuse when he was yk…..like 9 or 10” as an anti take before? Is this the first one?

The actual somersaults antis will do to implicate Billy as responsible for the abuse he experienced is already wild but as a 9 year old??? Clown behaviour

[helloarchivist]

we have got to take the capitalism and consumerist mindset out of fandom (and all life on earth but again, separate post), like. you are not consumers entitled to products by virtue of tendering currency (engagement), like. people who are creating in fandom spaces, be it fic or art or music or meta analysis or whatever, are not production facilities manufacturing supply to meet market demand.

these are enthusiasts and artisans crafting passion projects that we have the PRIVILEGE of getting to see. Not an entitlement to, a PRIVILEGE. do you understand? your favorite fic author is not a mega conglomerate stocking shelves with low quality cheap faux-sustenance. you aren't walking into a grocery store, you are walking into an arts festival, standing in the middle of the green, and loudly crying that nobody there is crafting for your needs at the rate you would prefer.

and in the event that there IS a tendering of currency involved (commissions), you are not slapping down a $20 to buy something mass produced or pre-printed, you are asking an artist to create something for you from the thin fucking air, that did not exist before, and at a level of expertise that requires time, energy, motivation, and persistence. you have purchased a piece of art that doesn't exist yet, sure, but you have not purchased the person CREATING it, who is a human being with their own lives, circumstances, and limitations.

also, and not for nothing, but walking back that consumerist mindset is going to take a lot of the misery and resentment out of your fandom experience too. updates are exciting, and pacing the floor angrily for every second they haven't appeared yet makes it hard for you, the creator, and everyone around you to enjoy them when they DO happen.

a little compassion and patience can go a LONG way. taking steps towards those things is worthwhile, and makes everyone's experience better. stop stuffing people's askboxes with anonymous complaints and try to rekindle what brought you joy about this place to begin with.

[wishing-stones]

Hihihi i saw your reblog about calcium cat recently and... thank you for that! It was eye opening and confirmed some suspicions i had... and im sorry you dont have to post this ask if you dont want to, i just didnt know where else to go. I don't use tumblr often, very sorry if i am bothering you!

So, i used to be a big fan of calcium cat's, and when i learned from your reblog that she's not someone i want to associate myself with, i remembered that she and topazshadowwolf (someone who wrote some Dadmare and Soriel fics that I liked, i think they're well known in the community but im not sure?) were affiliated with one another, and topazshadowwolf has these two posts on their blog that arent outright queerphobic like calcium cat's posts. i wanted to see what your thoughts were on it as a second opinion because i dont want to judge them too hard, but i also got an icky feeling from these posts that i can't really explain. I dont want to cause trouble for them if they don't deserve it which is why i wanted to ask your opinion on it. And im on anon in case if it really is that bad...

https://www.tumblr.com/topazshadowwolf/738317097192603648/anon-i-am-not-going-to-reply-to-that-ask-i-dont?source=share

https://www.tumblr.com/topazshadowwolf/738292724279672832/i-didnt-want-to-say-this-but-its-been-bugging?source=share

Uhmm yeah thats about it. Sorry, you probably dont get asks like this that much, i really just didnt know what to do and didnt see anyone talking about it and thought i was going crazy, i wanted to ask someone. I am a queer person myself and i just felt like these posts were really off but idk why :(((

Sorry this took a bit to get to Anon, I legitimately had no idea who this person was. Also had to grapple with the fact that I'm apparently a big enough figurehead here to ask about discourse? Willlddd to me. I'm not used to this LOL.

Discourse under the cut

The first thing that strikes me as off is the fact that Cal commented on the ask linked in the first post you provided. Don't like that. Openly associating with someone who has been outed as an immensely bigoted trans/homophobe is.... not a good look.

However, in regards to that ask, I agree with some of what they were saying. School is a time to play at discovery, because you rarely remain who you were as a child. It's not a definitive thing. You can be adamant that you're one way in school, and once you leave it an broaden your horizons, you discover that you're another way. This ranges anything from sexualities, gender expression, to religion and belief systems. People grow and change.

As an aside, I don't agree that NM wouldn't support them if they claimed to be different from how they are as adults and wouldn't support them. No context given, but I assume the boys don't remember being adults. This means their growing experiences will be fundamentally different than they were as former adults because they are going through their childhood/adolescence in a wildly different way than they did underground. So constricting them to such a narrow scope seems... disingenuous at best.

Seems a might bit narrow-minded, but I wouldn't go screaming "transphobia" yet. Don't like the "if you feel like I disrespected you, leave" though. The correct response is to ask what you did that made someone feel that way.

Worthy of a side-eye, but unless someone presents solid proof (as with Cal's very damning twitter likes, yuck), bad vibes shouldn't be enough to try to cancel someone. I try to give the benefit of the doubt. I sincerely hope my general faith here is not misplaced.

[cartoonscientist]

you guys, we made it!! the classical horror fandom officially has enough of an online presence that people who spend too much time on the internet have declared the dracula and frankenstein novels degenerate media. that’s the sign of a big name fandom.

[alexandraisyes]

It's not normal to send people death threats over fiction 👍

If you're so bothered by a piece of fiction maybe you should go to a therapist and talk about why it bothers you

Not send death threats

Authors and artists are real people, not machines for you to abuse

[furiitha096]

why do anitshippers gravitate to dark media so much

[mari-positas]

i wanted to keep my mouth shut, but i can’t.

i genuinely cannot believe how cruel some people can be. bullying others off this platform…over fanfiction of all fucking things? whoever is taking part in this by sending asks to that blog should be ashamed. and to be quite honest, embarrassed to be spending so much time and energy adding fuel to the fire.

i don’t know if this will make a difference, but take it from someone who knows how it feels to want to be friends with someone, but for some reason or another, it just doesn’t pan out. who doesn’t always write the popular tropes that get the most notes. take it from someone who has desired interactions with people i admire and look up to, but it just doesn’t happen. take it from someone who isn’t part of any specific circle of friends.

let’s be real, 99.9% of the hate is coming from jealousy, insecurity, and from what it sounds like, people have a serious chip on their shoulder with writers who aren’t interacting with them and their work.

when you don’t get something you want, that does not give you the right to throw a tantrum and take out your anger and frustrations on other people. that does not give you the right to bring someone’s age, personal, and family life into the mix. it does not give you the right to bully. expecting friendships, explanations, follows, reblogs, whatever it may be—this mindset will get you nowhere. no owes you, or any of us, a thing.

end this big writer/small writer nonsense. no one is getting paid for this. is the validation and that little number on the screen really that important to you? to the point where you are deliberately trying to hurt other people?

if it is, i beg you to go outside and touch grass. and get yourself a helmet while you’re at it because life is tough and if you go out into the real world expecting things from people, it’s going to knock you upside the head.

[ingravinoveritas]

Someone on Twitter just doxxed Michael and David's hotel location in Scotland (at least until people called them out in the replies and they went private). This, after Neil already violated their (especially David's) privacy during filming last time in a way that we now know the horrific details about. To then have a "fan" turn around and do it is beyond unconscionable. Between this and the incessant begging for hair dye photos, I would be insanely happy if this fandom could just BE NORMAL about these people for five goddamn minutes...

[splatoonpolls]

Fandom discourse is weird. We will have literal adults who will try to analyze ”Princess unicorn in sunshineland” as the second coming of The Plague by Camus. While they can’t even grasp basic stuff like ”district 11 is a direct reference to how black people were and are still treated in the USA” while reading the hunger games.

[antimony-medusa]

Okay so.

Look. At this point I am old and I am tired and I am pretty firmly coming down on write what you want just archive lock it or something and tag it please. If I am hitting tropes or trends or ships that don't do it for me, I can simply click away and my day is not ruined. Cancellation is not on my radar at all. Okay. So. With that out of the way.

Look. Sometimes, when you are pushing the boundary of platonic possessive and platonic kink-adjacent stuff, if you lead special emphasis on the fact that everybody involved is related, it doesn't necessarily make it magically more platonic. It just gives it extra vibes. Specifically you are like STRONGLY invoking incest as a kink right now, my guys. This is getting dire. Like I'm sorry but if someone is lying down half asleep listening to the "sounds of kissing" and one of the people doing the kissing keeps saying how good of a brother the other person is, like, you can smack a "platonic kissing" tag on that one all you like, and I can even follow you on a faith journey and believe that you intended that to be platonic, but uh, the first reading of that one is distinctly like— man, please. I'm dying here.

In the same way that if you have an interaction— say, you did a cuddle-potion fic, and you say to yourself "man these guys are getting handsy, if they're both dating age this would look kinda sketchy'' so your solve is to make one of them twelve and then suddenly you have made your slightly off-colour fic take on a whole new tone— in the same way that making one of the characters underage isn't a magic button you can press to make something fully platonic no matter what, making your characters related isn't going to make it magically platonic if they are say, all in the same bed and one of the characters is feeling the mattress move as his brother and father cuddle each other and say how much they love each other.

This isn't even an isolated incident. Please.

If you are looking at your interaction and going "man this kinda looks like ship" and you want to make sure people don't think it's ship, aging down the character isn't a magic solve, and making them related isn't a magic solve, not when the rest of the tropes you are pulling from are pulled directly from romance and porn. You just invoked a DIFFERENT kink on top of the first one you had. Like you might not know that that's where the tropes come from but guys. Please. The solve for this scene is either changing it substantially until it no longer looks like ship, accepting that it looks off but you don't mean it that way and go "if people misunderstand this it's not my problem" or maybe considering the option that what you want to write is ship. I keep hitting this stuff and going "are you SERIOUS" and then it gets worse.

Or maybe, idk, you're specifically into all the people being related like that. You do you, the contents of your Ao3 account is not hurting anyone. But in that case please for the love of GOD can you please consider tagging it?

[xia0mi-c0m]

The proshipping problem in the twst fandom | A rant.

Very obvious trigger warning for things normal for proshippers like p3dophilia, incest, etc.

Though I do know proshippers will be in every single fandom, it's getting especially worse in the twst fandom, specifically the Japanese side of the fandom (with some discussions about some in the English side too).

Before any proshippers come into the comment section: Proshipping is NOT a healthy coping mechanism. If your therapist recommended it, they should be fired.

This post is not to dehumanize and degrade underage proshippers as they have been obviously groomed into believing that it was okay to ship this sort of stuff.

The actual elephant in the room we WILL be shunning is the adult proshippers who actively encourage children (either actually or under law) to proship.

Before getting fully deep in this subject, I would like to admit something that I've talked about before.

I was a proshipper when I was younger than what I am now. This was because, not getting into too much detail, I was groomed by a man online to the point that i thought it was okay.

Not only was I a proshipper but I was also a darkshipper, problematic comshipper, and also supported the things present in Dead Dove fanfics.

In fact, I had an account on some sort of forum page with other proshippers and I shared my nasty ships there. I believed it was a good way of desensitizing myself to my trauma that fucked me up heavily, but it wasn't and it was making me relive the same trauma which in return, made it worse.

This is why I say that I do not want anyone to shun underage proshippers, they were groomed into it half of the time.

Now that I'm 18 (About to turn 19 on February 14th), I finally understand that proshipping is an unhealthy way of approaching your trauma and pain.

It may feel like it does something, but it really doesn't. And I want to reassure you that you're not alone in your pain, please, find other ways to cope and process what has happened to you that doesn't include glorifying very nasty things.

Now with that out the way, I would like to say what the title says.

Proshippers in the twst fandom has sadly grown overtime, but my niece made a very good point; stating that since twst does have a slightly dark story, that people with dark and nasty thoughts and ideas will be attracted to it, much like a moth to a flame that damages it's already fragile body.

There have been adults in the twst proshipper area, and I think they're the main cause of fueling minors in the fandom to do the same thing. Maybe with or without knowing the eventual psychological consequences.

The adults who are aware sadly lure and prey on the gullible underage individuals of the fandom, and though that might seem like an overexaggeration; it sadly is true.

I am Japanese, well, half-Japanese. But even then, due to that fact, I'm more prevalent in the Japanese fandom than the English fandom though I am trying to balance out both.

Since I am more present in the Japanese side of the fandom than I am with the English side (because I'm basically like an absent dad that went off to get the milk and never came back until years), I have seen a lot of shit in here and it's very scary even to this day.

Though the English side of the fandom is as equally bad, the Japanese side is worse with the whole l0li and sh0ta thing. Sadly I have seen English twst accounts do those things too.

The most popular proshipper you may know is Ugigi or however the fuck you spell her name, whether one likes to admit it or not, her selfships were very much proshipping. This is mainly due to how her OC could've been her actual age which was in her 20s if I'm remembering correctly.

But let's say the OC wasn't, it would still be problematic (but not in the proship way) since the characters she drew NSFW of were mainly the minors (again, if I remember correctly). If her OC was her actual age then she would be a proshipper.

However, watever the age of the OC she always drew, it's obvious that it was still leaning more on proshipping because that indicates that she's attracted to the characters despite knowing they're minors (and not even aging them up by the way).

So, very nasty, I was thinking of putting her In the TWs 😭

All jokes aside, proshipping is disgusting.

In fact, must I bring up any other thing?

LEECHCEST.

WHAT.

Well, you heard that right, people ship Floyd and Jade. Seriously, what is wrong with you guys. And I think I know why this ship is so popular in the Japanese fandom; The fact incest is not necessarily illegal in Japan in a way.

Yeah. You heard me correctly. I'm horrified and scarred for life <3

"Surely there isn't anymore I shall talk about, right? Right?? RIGHT?!?" I exclaim, not expecting anything else to come from the sky and hit me.

Then boom..

SHROUDCEST.

OH FUCK NOT AGAIN.

So, apparently people ship a dead robotic little boy with his big brother.. yeah... FNAF fandom called, they're telling you not to steal their bit much like how Deejus is trying to tell Johnny RaZeR not to steal his "YOUTUBEEE" outro bit that.. he also stole.

It can't get any worse than this, right? This is definitely the last tier of the iceberg, surely? Perhaps??-

KINGSCHOLARCEST.

Okay, now we're pushing it, this bit is getting old but whatever.

Kingscholarcest can refer to three (disgusting) "ships": A nasty ship of Cheka x Leona, a nasty ship of Falena x Leona, or a nasty ship of Falena x Leona x Cheka.

Sweet home Alabama all around but more extreme..

I think we all know why these ships are not okay and are disgusting (ESPECIALLY CHEKA X LEONA SINCE CHEKA IS A GOO GOO GA GA BABY.)

Finally.. It's over.. I can go back to ranting!-

FELLOW X GIDEL.

JESUS CHRIST STOP.

This madness needs to stop because if not I'm going to pull my fucking hair out!-

LILMAL, SILVER X LILIA, S-

OKAY STOP IT RIGHT HERE,, THE BIT IS OLD NOW.

So, I think you get my point.

Borderline incestuous ships, the drake specialty, and straight up sweet home right to Alabama.

Now, let's put aside the jokes and get serious again.

With all the things I have stated, you can definitely see the absolute horror of some parts of the fandom.

There's accounts that are VERY hypocritical, saying "P3dos DNI" when they are a sh0ta/l0licon. This is the literal definition of hypocrisy at it's finest.

There are mfs who have unironically said that Cheka was hot and romantically cute.. HE'S 7 YEARS OLD. OR MAYBE YOUNGER. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER BUT I DO KNOW HE IS A CHILD.

I have said this MANY times before and I'll say it again; if that characters looks like a child, THEY ARE A CHILD.

Even if you age up characters like Ortho, Cheka, etc. You are still self-reporting that you're attracted to a literal child.

Fiction DOES affect reality no matter if you try to plug your mickey mouse ears with your fingers (or paws, I don't know) to gaslight yourself into believing it doesn't truly affect it.

In fact, there have been cases where people have been arrested for having l0li/sh0ta on their devices, though, sadly, its not a long sentence despite how it should be lifelong.

But even without the lifelong sentence, the law still considers l0li/sh0ta CSAM. (I hate calling it CP now since that implies that kids can do that in their own will.)

A grown adult proshipper even told me when I criticized Kanna from dragon maid for being a little girl the author sexualizes to no end all because I said that she doesn't have a listed age that I was being "contradicting" and I think this proves that.. proshippers DON'T know what contradictions ACTUALLY are because they've gaslit so much into believing this disgusting behavior is normal and okay to do.

And don't get me started on Dead Dove cai, chai, etc. bots and fanfics.

Dead Dove, proshipping, problematic comshipping, darkshipping, doveshipping, etc. doesn't give out awareness to the horrors of such depraved acts.

Another very nasty thing I've seen in the TWST fandom is people shipping the staff with the students, mainly Crewel with Deuce.

Teacher x Student is disgusting no matter what. Teachers are always more grown than the students, so yeah, teachers aren't the anime boy or girl of your dreams or something, he or she's going to be old and otherwise not "attractive" and young.

The training to become a teacher and any profession in fact will take years, which means you'll grow and turn old.

I understand many say "Well, it's just fiction!" but these people seem to forget that young individuals, especially young girls, can see these teacher x student fiction and will probably, in the worst case scenario, get the wrong impression from it, ESPECIALLY if the media glamorizes and romanticize it, and sadly become a victim.

Crewel, If I'm not wrong, is 31 meanwhile Deuce and the other first years that [Crewel] mainly gets shipped with are 16 years old.

This is not only a disgusting, vomit-inducing age gap but huge maturity gap whether one likes to admit so or not.

Yanderes especially in the twst fandom get romanticized, and people seem to forget the reality of the abuse that yanderes put their "love interest(s)" through.

And I think this is why fandoms (not just twst) should stop romanticizing yanderes and student x teacher, and vice versa.

Besides, these two tropes are grooming even if the victim is not a minor, adults and the elderly alike can also be groomed especially if they're gullible and need to depend on someone (for either a disability or something).

People will probably invalidate my point but I don't budge from what I said.

Sorry if this posts looks rushed and/or maybe even incoherent to some, I just wanted to get this off my chest and stuff.

I should start ranting more, I like yapping so yeah, expect more whenever I'm bored :3

Anyways, BAIIII!!

YOUTUBEEEEEE flies away into the void to the right

[lux-drm]

cw// discourse

seeing people shit on stepcest caleb enjoyers and still denying that he absolutely DOES embody the pseudo-incest trope is getting kinda sad lmaooo like the proof is RIGHT there when you read the Chinese translations. they KNOW they're supposed to be just siblings,but caleb lost the idgaf war and mc's a bit of a freak too. deny it all u want 😭😭 won't change a thing unfortunately for you

[rotteneldritchhorror]

sometimes you have to dip into a fandom you left years ago just to revel in the public execution of the most hated member

[toxicanonymity]

When you engage with confessions accts, you're encouraging this kind of parasocial hater behavior

Note added for context: A "confessions" account has been posting anon hate mostly toward writers in the pedro pascal fandom. A parasocial hater of mine discovered it and has been going to town. I posted this after a revolting analogy they used (screenshot at bottom of post).

Obviously I am disgusted that anyone would post such a deranged analogy just to stir up fandom drama. FYI many of these are from the same individual who has been fixated on me for a while and i know others have their stalkers too. We block them but when a "confessions" acct is active, they have a platform. I'm sorry to everyone who has been attacked.

warning: hate, trivialization of abuse & genocide, gross stuff.

the screenshots below are all from after I blocked this person

I normally don't address things like this, but that's only because I'm trying to keep it off your dash and off my blog for reasons including not wanting to give the hater a larger audience for their message. Normally I block/delete. But thanks to a blog dedicated to posting anon hate, some of this is already on the dash, and additional context could be illuminating.

a couple weeks ago, this person chimed in on my non-fandom post, and their comment made me uncomfortable. Their blog tagline was antagonistic. They weren't being earnest. I checked to see if they followed me, and they didn't. I wrongly assumed they followed me from a main account since they were commenting on an un-tagged, un-reblogged post. I replied, taking issue with their comment and asking them to keep their thoughts to themselves rather than coming at me from a sideblog. But I now realize they were simply hate checking my blog.

These first ones are from their burner after I blocked the account that started it:

(Blocked the burner too)

They were saying this last bit preemptively - I've never talked about stalkers here until this post you're reading rn. I didn't include all their anons in this post, just enough to show they clearly out themselves as being the same person.

Sometimes they will act like they're laughing and pretend to be multiple people. They also sent asks targeting att*********h and made comments off-anon before she deactivated this wk. In other asks they use large font to praise a former writer (jr****t) and insult everyone else - they sent one of these off-anon and reblogged another.

This post i'm making may only make it worse idk. I want to trust people not to automatically believe and repeat accusations, but my experience leaves me pessimistic.

I won't be dropping this creep's url in this post: This week they have repeatedly changed their url anyway, along with their display name and blog appearance. I had never heard of them.

Now the ask that prompted this post, idk if it's the same person or not but they def sent multiple asks

Note the "our" 🙄 typical hate stalker tactic pretending to be more than 1 person. I used to get "we are laughing" asks after like every post I made.

I haven't included nearly all the hate in this post, only the last one which crossed the line pushing me to make this post and all the others to illustrate how one person can go so wild. In other posts, I was sexualized without my consent (TOS violation) and it was really gross. And then miscellaneous hate.

Note - yes you can share this if you want. It's already out there anyway. Also feel free to DM for the known urls but do NOT contact them / rile them up.

Update - the anon-hate account referred to above, pedgeconfessions, has deactivated after violating multiple TOS including doxxing (not of me) which can put people in real world danger. It wasn't the first such acct this summer and may not be the last.

[ingravinoveritas]

I'm going to say this as kindly as I can, but it's already gone too far. For at least the past week--since filming on GO 3 started, but even before then--there has been a nonstop demand for hair dye pics from fans. In particular, I have seen comments on Georgia and Anna's dedicated posts on Insta over and over harassing them about hair dye pictures. (This is not even including comments on stories, which we can't see publicly unless they share them, and how many of those likely involve requests for hair dye pictures.)

All of this in the wake of the Vulture article being published, and the sudden disappearance of discourse around Neil's actions in tandem with a resurgence of discourse around GO 3 filming. And what I have not seen is any consideration or discussion of how this could be affecting Georgia and Anna. They knew Neil, albeit in a different capacity than David and Michael. They worked with Neil on that Dream of a Thousand Cats bonus episode of Sandman, and had at least a professional relationship with him. Yet everyone expects them to jump enthusiastically into GO 3, regardless of whether they've had time to process or grieve, or how they might actually feel about the show themselves.

I genuinely do not think that Georgia or Anna are "teasing" the fans or "playing" with us, at least not in the way people seem to think. I think they are fed up at this point (and rightfully so) and truly don't care if fans are upset about not having hair dye pictures. And I think the difficulty that some fans have with seeing this stems from an inability to see Georgia and Anna as individuals/judge them by their own actions, but instead as extensions of David and Michael. All four of these people might (and likely do) have vastly different feelings about Good Omens/this entire situation, and this behavior from the fandom has a good chance of making Georgia and Anna resent the show and the fans more than anything else.

When it comes down to it--and as difficult as it might be to accept--we are just not going to get the behind the scenes tidbits or posts that we got for the first two seasons. The circumstances now are much more complex, and there are many more reasons for everyone involved to stay quiet/on the down low regarding production--especially given that legally speaking, there are likely major restrictions on what can/can't be shared on social media. And if/when the day comes that something can be shared, hopefully it will be from the guys themselves, when they are ready and able to do so. Until then, and unless the goal is to make them stop engaging with the fandom for good, let's please leave Georgia and Anna alone...

[lvmimis]

i probably shouldn't harp on this but i was Provoked and i no longer have dishes to wash

anyway i do think we need to address the fact that we seem to treat fanwriting and fanart fundamentally different (or maybe i'm biased and just not seeing the other side, and if so you guys can gently point that out) but i feel like people do not just demand and expect artwork of their faves in the tags generally the way they demand writing as if it's not just as much an act of labor as everything else

all fanwork is an act of labor and love you are entitled to none of it