#hazbin discourse

[criticalcrusherbot]

Analyze this take, please?

💁🏽‍♀️🤖: Ah yes, the “Angel harasses Husk, so HuskerDust is toxic” take—a textbook example of how media literacy gets hijacked by pop psychology buzzwords and overly literal moral frameworks. Let’s break this down properly:

1. Fiction ≠ A Behavioral Manual

First off, fiction isn’t obligated to portray relationships that meet the standards of a wellness blog. Angel and Husk are demons living in Hell—their dynamic is messy, chaotic, and rooted in exaggerated humor. Expecting them to follow HR-approved guidelines for interpersonal behavior is like expecting Gordon Ramsay to whisper sweet nothings in Hell’s Kitchen. It’s missing the entire point of the setting and tone.

2. Angel Dust and Character Development

Even if we were to judge their interactions by real-life standards, there’s such a thing as realizing your behavior sucks, making amends, and then building a healthier relationship. Growth and redemption are storytelling staples for a reason, and Angel Dust is absolutely a character capable of that trajectory. His journey already hints at him learning to be more considerate while still keeping his flamboyant charm.

3. Restorative Justice vs. Cancel Culture

This critique exposes a deeper problem: people want to talk about social justice but never about restorative justice or community building. Relationships—fictional or real—don’t have to start perfect to be meaningful. People can screw up, apologize, and then grow closer through mutual understanding. That’s literally how bonds are forged in many communities, especially those centered on healing after harm. As media scholar Henry Jenkins notes, storytelling often thrives when it explores reconciliation and redemption rather than adhering to rigid moral binaries.

4. Context and Mutual Understanding

Husk isn’t a helpless victim here—he holds his own against Angel’s antics and maintains his boundaries. Their dynamic plays into the classic “grumpy x sunshine” trope, which is beloved precisely because it’s messy yet affectionate. Fiction allows for those complexities because, unlike real life, it invites us to explore scenarios where characters grow, heal, and build meaningful relationships after initial friction.

Conclusion

Calling HuskerDust toxic because of Angel’s initial behavior not only misreads the characters but also perpetuates a simplistic, punitive approach to relationships. Fiction—and by extension, life—isn’t about being perfect from the start; it’s about learning, growing, and finding joy in the messy, complicated process of being together. Maybe it’s time internet discourse took a page from restorative justice and embraced that nuance.

[voxtekinc]

This blog is tied to our Voxtek server where we feature our awesome members' arts/stories.

Our discord is a "Voxtek themed" server where we talk about everything related to Hazbin Hotel!

All pairings are welcomed, cherished, and will be equally gushed at!

A cozy place for writers, artists, and readers to share the joy of this series and create the found family tropes.

Join a community where we are a...community! We have great festivals and events planned to celebrate the awesomeness that is Hazbin Hotel.

Here's what our members (moderators) has to say about the server! ft. @redfoxwritesstuff, @redvexillum, and @nyx-umbrakinesis

★ Join us today! ★

[nunalastor]

To all the non-asexual people who keep trying to mansplain asexuality to people who 99% of the time are on the ace-spectrum themselves:

I am the most repulsed aroace person you will ever meet, but after the school abstinence class filled with enough misinformation to make Buckshot Anon commit a murder, I would have gone and gotten railed out of spite if my peers were even slightly tolerable.

Asexual people can fuck. Sex-repulsed people can fuck. They can fuck for a multitude of reasons, and one of them is pure spite. Saying you interpret Alastor as sex-repulsed and believe canon is going that route is not the end all be all you think it is.

There is nothing wrong with interpreting Alastor's asexuality any way you want. It is okay not to like the ships he is in. But for the love of god, this is not the battle for non-asexual people to fight, yet those are the ones who go leave hate on people's posts and won't shut up. Most people on the ace-spectrum are very civil about this and follow the "don't like don't read" policy. Follow that example.

Sorry for the rant, had to get that off my chest.

👀

[rat-rambles]

Are new hazbin fans not aware that we all agreed alastor is covered in scars befor the show came out. I just saw some ones alastor body head Canon scarless and like guys I know you wernt here for it but he's COVERED in scars.

[mlsofh]

Fandom Thoughts - Aro/Ace Representation

Hello Wayward Sinners!

I was thinking about the fact that there is so much discourse around Alastor being Aro/Ace and if that means it's okay to ship him with anyone. As an Aro/Ace spectrum person I figured I actually had a stake in this conversation. For the record, just because I am Aro/Ace does not mean that I can speak for the entire community. I am a person giving my opinion on the matter. If I'm being honest: Alastor having a relationship/relationships is perfectly fine in my eyes! Aro/Ace people can be on a spectrum to how far or how complicated romantic feelings are. Same goes for sexual feelings. For Aro/Ace people, it can be so complicated. For myself, I don't view love the same way as others. It's a complicated spiral that takes a lot of communication with my partners. So in short because this was a short post: I think as an Aro/Ace person it doesn't take away representation as everyone is on a spectrum in some way. Feelings are complicated! (Personally I'm an avid RadioDust/HuskerDust/RadioHusk/RadioHuskDust shipper but that's neither here nor there. I'll probably make a post about it.) That's all for today: what are your thoughts? Stay Tuned!

[socksorstockingz]

As a fan of the show I have a lot of opinions on the discourse surrounding Hazbin (and Helluva tbh), but my general summation of my feelings is

The show is imperfect but some of y’all are just mean

[goetialiker]

There is Hazbin discourse again

No, it’s not worth investing your time into - Sam Haft made a thread on it if you’re interested, just read that and move on

[critical-dxrling]

I love not pitting indie animation shows against each other and instead embracing all of them. In the midst of ai slop, corporations always choosing live action/CG over full animation, and the rise in conservatism, we have all these shows that just embrace animation (and usually queerness too). I love TADC, helluva boss, hazbin, lackadaisy, gaslight district, murder drones, all of them, just for what they represent. Animation is not dead and it never will be.

[carto0ncritter]

People are so desperate for LGBT representation, (specifically gay and lesbian couples), that they're willing to accept literally any homosexual ship regardless of the concerning elements.

Let's see, we have ass ships like

1)Stolitz - Stolas is an abuser, a r*pist, a racist man who has so many powers yet is emotionally fragile, passive and wimpy, a man who victimizes himself over and over, a man who emotionally neglects the child who desperately needs him for his sexual fantasies with his victim, a man who is the creator's pet, a man whose actions aren't wrong according to the writers, a man who can just blame everyone else around him but himself with no consequences

2) Catradora - Catra is an abuser too, but was treated like a cute kitty cat in s5 despite having done atrocious things, she was instantly forgiven with no consequences, and she ended up dating her sister and the biggest victim of her abuse

3) Huskerdust - I haven't talked about this one so far, but Angel sexually harassed Husk and never apologized, Husk himself sang "Loser, Baby" and as a SA survivor I felt like he was trying to say this to Angel: "Oh, you've hit rock bottom because of SA? It's your fault lol, accept that you're a whiny bitch and a loser even tho the problem is extremely serious and out of your control and just suck it up, I'm a loser too despite not going through the same thing you have, you're not alone in being a loser BUT YOU ARE STILL A LOSER BABYYY A LOOOSER" Like, ik the message was supposed to be how we're not alone in our struggles and how there's always someone who will understand and make us feel less alone, but the way this was handled rubbed me the wrong way. Also, I'm not sure whether or not to mention this as well (screw it, I will), but Husk is described as "the old bartender," his voice sounds like it belongs to an old dude too, and he apparently died when he was like, 70, while Angel died in his 30's. I'm not gonna calculate their ages based on how it works in Hell because personally I feel like it doesn't matter. What matters is how old they were when they were alive. But however you decide to look at their ages, it's not just the implied enormous age gap that bothers me, no... it's more so the difference in maturity between Husk and Angel. Husk is described as a dude who has seen and experienced a lot of stuff. On the other hand, Angel is clearly immature and there is this weird... emotional imbalance between them? It's like a mentor dating his apprentice, at least that's how I see it. I'm not saying dating someone who's 40 years older than you is morally wrong (if you're both adults) but IT IS WEIRD imo, especially since Angel & Husk are not on the same page when it comes to life experience and maturity. Oh yeah, I also don't think Angel should be in any kind of romantic relationship... for his own good

[saiscribbles]

And my "The Vivziepop Hatedom is Cringe" stream VOD is back up!

This is the final for real one. Sorry about all the technical issues, the stream was unfortunately stuck at 240p visuals for the duration.

[petitprincess1]

This is so fucking weird and gross. This is why the fandom has zero respect for antis/criticals bc they start up shit like this. What was even the point of doing something like this? What did they gain? Like, you're fine to have an opinion, but in what world is this okay????

This is why I joke about antis/crits being fans bc how else do you explain this

[criticalcrusherbot]

One "criticism" that particularly bothers me is that Hazbin Hotel is a white savior fantasy. I'd very much like to hear your thoughts.

💁🏽‍♀️: We’ve actually got a bit of a nuanced answer for you 😅

🤖: This unit is programmed for maximum nuance. Nuance detected—analysis protocols engaged! We love nuance on this blog. Beep boop! 💖🤖

💁🏽‍♀️🤖: sigh Oookayyyy. Let’s break this down thoughtfully. First off—no, Charlie is not a “white savior” at this point. The white savior trope typically refers to stories where a white protagonist swoops into a marginalized community, solves their problems, and becomes a celebrated hero while sidelining that community’s agency. This often involves a dynamic where the savior is framed as inherently superior in intelligence, morality, or capability. That simply isn’t what’s happening with Charlie in Hazbin Hotel.

Charlie isn’t portrayed as swooping in from an outsider position; she’s deeply entrenched in the very system she’s trying to reform. As the princess of Hell, she holds immense privilege, but that privilege doesn’t automatically translate into success or unquestioned authority. In fact, she’s met with skepticism, ridicule, and outright hostility by both Hell’s citizens and its power structures. Moreover, the residents of Hell aren’t depicted as passive victims waiting for a hero—they’re defiant, complex individuals with their own agency and often reject Charlie’s mission outright.

But how does this trope apply to Hazbin Hotel? The parallels are loose at best—but there are still interesting elements worth unpacking.

First, Hell isn’t a traditional marginalized community; it’s literally the underworld with its own warped societal structure. That said, it does have a rigid hierarchy that mirrors class and race dynamics from our world.

Charlie’s position as Hell’s princess grants her immense privilege, making her mission to “redeem” Hell a bit fraught when viewed through a sociopolitical lens. In that light, the potential for a white savior-adjacent dynamic isn’t entirely off-base. Charlie’s belief that she alone can “fix” Hell could easily veer into condescending territory if the show doesn’t remain self-aware.

But here’s the thing—we actually like that this could be an intentional flaw of Charlie’s character. Her idealism sometimes borders on naivety, and if the narrative chooses to challenge that belief (perhaps by showing how she misunderstands the complexities of Hell’s social dynamics), it could make for a fascinating thematic exploration.

Right now, though, it’s too early to say whether this will be fully explored. Hazbin Hotel still has a lot of world-building and narrative legwork to do before fully grappling with themes like privilege and flawed heroism. But the potential is absolutely there.

For now, Charlie isn’t portrayed as superior or infallible—she’s hopeful, a bit naive, and faces constant resistance. The residents of Hell aren’t framed as helpless victims but as complex individuals with their own agency and defiant personalities. This dynamic helps the show stay clear of truly problematic “savior” territory for now.

In short, while Hazbin Hotel may not perfectly fit the “white savior” framework, it’s worth keeping an eye on how the show handles Charlie’s mission. If it leans into the tension between her privilege and the realities of Hell’s rigid hierarchy, it could become a truly compelling exploration.

[certifiablyinsanez]

Mammon is great ace representation: an essay on aphobia in the Hellaverse fandom

I’m seeing a lot of people be mad about Mammon having a thing for Leviathan. And I’m going to need the fandom to step back and examine these issues, because they are 100% rooted in aphobia. I have been out as an oriented aroace person for over 10 years if you want to doubt my credentials, rather than listen to my analysis, lived experience and reflect.

So. Tell me Hellaverse fandom; why, when it comes to Alastor, who is a character who very clearly has zero interest in others, it is always a chorus of people saying “aces can have sex”, “aces can enjoy sex”, “it’s not harmful to the ace community to use Alastor for shipping material, he isn’t real and asexuality and aromanticism is a huge spectrum”, “Aroace people can still date and have sex”?

But when it comes to Mammon, he is “bad asexual representation”, he “clearly experiences sexual attraction”, “he can’t be demisexual”, etc.

No genuinely, why is this? I want you to examine this, think on it from a place of neutral examination and come to your own conclusions. Because this is a worrisome double standard. This can for starters, be an instance of fat phobia. Because out of the two of them, Alastor is thin, and therefore closer to the beauty standard, which is hysterical considering that Alastor canonically has horrible hygiene, and I don’t think I know a single person who thinks that stank ass body and breath is attractive. Mammon, as seen from the slovenly way he eats, can potentially be assumed to have poor hygiene as well, but it has a very different connotation because of his weight. [Research the connection between thin privilege and body odor/hygiene. It’s very real].

I can spend a lot of time and energy going into the shipping dynamics between the shows, as well as how Alastor is a more “shippable” character in comparison to Mammon, but I honestly don’t find this as interesting or as compelling as to what I’m about to say next.

Because aphobia in the real world is still very alive and well today. In my 10+ years of being in the ace community, I have genuinely spent a lot of emotional energy, time, knowledge, experience, and compassion, just fighting for the right to even be acknowledged as queer. I have vivid memories from when I was first out of the closet at the age of 16, telling ace people across apps and forums that they were valid, that they weren’t broken, that they were deserving of love, respect, and a place in the queer community. I was telling people, younger, my age, and older that they shouldn’t kill themselves, that they had worth beyond what they could do in the bedroom for others. I had to convince people that they didn’t owe anyone sex, and that they were in fact being sexually abused by their partners. I was on the phone with people in tears. I spent HOURS of my life in these DMs at an age where I was a suffering, mentally ill queer child that was also being victimized by aphobia. Still to this day people think the “A” stands for ally. And still to this day people have discord about our community as a whole. I have had to sit and watch as people went from loudly proclaiming with their whole chest that asexual people didn’t exist, or at the very least weren’t queer. Then years went by and it became less and less okay to say things like that, because asexual people finally had fought long enough and had supported each other enough that we discovered our voices and began to use them. So people were finally facing the consequences of saying bigoted shit.

And now that they can’t say that asexuals aren’t queer, they moved on to another group. Demisexuals. Demisexuals by far have it roughest, because while there are many micro labels in our community to explain our diverse range of experiences, demisexual is probably the most well known one. And every handful of months or so I have to use my voice once again to stand up for my people, because an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us, and people on the internet have made it clear that they have no qualms of attacking us. The asexual and aromantic community have made extremely valuable contributions to the queer community that are entirely overlooked because we are not valued in it.

And this is why I have been an outspoken proponent of my displeasure over Alastor being a character that is the most shipped with others, and my disdain for the fanbase has grown even wider after Mammons appearance in Mastermind. It is a painful reminder of all the discrimination I’ve faced over the years, that my community still goes through. Because people are contrarians. Alastor is canonically asexual, and other aspects of his character are reflective of aromanticism as well. Well, the fanbase doesn’t like this so much. If you genuinely pay attention, you’ll notice this is a trend with a lot of other aroace characters. My favorite example is Peridot from Steven Universe, a canonical aroace character. In the show, Peridot goes through a lot of unlearning and growth. The scene where she tries to fuse with Garnet has massive implications for a few reasons. Because one, she is genuine in her desire to understand Garnet, and fusion better. And two, fusion while forbidden on Homeworld, is commonplace and normal in the Crystal Gems. As a Crystal Gem, she feels this is what is now expected of her. This is a major experience in the aspec community, as living in a cis heteronormative society means that sex, marriage and children are all things expected of each individual, which is dangerous and harmful ideology to everyone, asexual/aromantic people as well. Peridot couldn’t go through with the fusion, but that didn’t stop the fandom salivating, and foaming at the mouth over a potential Lapis/Peridot fusion. People were genuinely mad at Rebecca Sugar for never making that pairing canon, when they had absolutely no right to behave the way they did. Let’s not forget how the fans also misgendered Rebecca Sugar constantly. It was absolutely bigoted.

This is happening with Alastor. Fans feel entitled to ship him with whomever, an entitlement that is not seen with other characters. When people ship Vaggie with Angel, there is backlash, and for good reason. Because people understand that despite the fact that Vivienne Medrano said people can ship whatever, shipping a gay man with a woman and a gay woman with a man is…gross. It is wrong, it is disrespectful of their identities, and is forcing heteronormativity onto characters that are strict in their sexualities. Most people are able to recognize the thinly veiled homophobia. But Alastor does not receive the same treatment, and in fact receives the opposite treatment. I don’t know what I could say to convince you that the aroace coded character in a show being the #1 most shipped is thinly veiled aphobia the same way Vaggie x Angel is thinly veiled homophobia.

Now what does that have to do with Mammon? Mammon seems to not be aroace coded like Alastor, and for some reason, that has thoroughly pissed people off. Because Mammon is not the “acceptable” caricature of an asexual person. Most allosexual (non-asexual and/or aromantic people) view being asexual as being synonymous with being aromantic, which shows a painful lack of understanding and at times respect for the diversity of our community. Alastor fits this category, so he’s an “acceptable asexual”, while also essentially being a toy for shippers. But Mammon, with his clear attraction to Leviathan, is a “bastardization” of the asexual image. When we aren’t being viewed as broken, we’re often being viewed as chaste, virginal, and innocent with attachments to infantilization. But Mammon, with his aggressive and even icky approach to flirting with Leviathan, is seen as a subversion of this, which for people who don’t understand our community, hate. And these people are blaming Vivienne for having “terrible ace rep” when in actuality, having multiple ace characters having very little in common is actually fantastic rep. Because there are many labels in our community that Mammon can fit into as an asexual. To me, he looks like a sex-positive, high libido, demisexual. He’s known Leviathan for thousands of years, of course it makes sense that he would be into her, but not into anyone else which would explain why his “posse” are just female robots. This could also be because of his classism, but I genuinely think that he’s just demisexual. And you already know how people feel about demisexuals.

If you’ve read this far and have genuinely set aside your biases and personal feelings like I requested in the beginning, I appreciate that. Because from my own lived experience, the double standard between Alastor and Mammon doesn’t annoy me; it frightens me.

Because what the fandom is actually saying when they do these things is this:

“We see you as a homogenous group. Your voices go in one ear and out the other. If you don’t conform to our values and standards, we won’t give you the respect or recognition you deserve. If you don’t conform to my view of your group, you lose my “allyship”. We do not see your identity as a sexuality in its own right, but rather a literary device we can play with. I do not care to learn more about your community, your culture, or your struggles. I barely (if at all) acknowledge you as your own sexual minority and marginalized group. I barely acknowledge (if at all) that you are queer at all. I do not care about your feelings about societal biases that I might carry, I don’t care about how you’ve lived it, because it takes away my fun and fantasies. Because I devalue your group as a whole, your voices mean little. Your narrative is mine to do with as I please.”

I really hope you can see my perspective and understand the sincere place this comes from. Thanks for reading.

[nunalastor]

Permission to vent a teeny bit?

Some dumbass on Twitter: It's obvious Vivziepop changed Alastor's human design because of criticism and backlash.

Me: No dumbfuck, she changed his design because creators typically don't stick with the very first initial draft of a character and call it good! For fuck's sake just look at how many redesigns every single character in this series went through!

i will forever say i highkey think she was inspired by that one artist

[rat-rambles]

Can we talk about the time vizi was like " one of the main 6 in hazbin will die" AND NO ONE THOUGHT SIR PENTIOUS WAS EVEN ONE OF THE MAIN 6. That was well played nearly no one saw that comeing.

[cannibalistic-deer]

It baffles me that I've seen people say "Alastor is canonically sex and touch repulsed" as a reason people "shouldn't" be shipping Alastor sexually/romantically.

Why assume that the sex repulsion applies to every relationship in his life, permanently? Some aces are sex favorable, or may develop more favorable feelings for specific people, even if otherwise repulsed.

And the same applies to touch repulsion. That's such a weak argument. Alastor canonically, and very clearly, is okay with or possibly even enjoys touch in specific situations. He does seem to be touch repulsed in general, but again, there are specific people it doesn't apply to. (Rosie is the best example, since with anyone else it is more brief, but Rosie touches him, and is the one initiating that, frequently.)

All types of attraction, or comfort levels with different manners of affection, are fluid. This isn't ever an excuse to invalidate real people who are telling you their identities, but it does mean that assumptions really can't be made about what a person would or wouldn't do.

And this type of thinking is what really leads to invalidating real people, because even if you think "being asexual means never having sexual attraction," and then an ace person shares that they think they might have experienced sexual attraction at some point but still identify as ace... then you have to be open to that. You cannot put sexualities in boxes. This applies to all sexualities.

I'm a fictive of Alastor myself, and I am sex repulsed, so I understand the discomfort, but I also understand that people are not harming any real, living person by making fanworks where Alastor is having sex. It also doesn't mean they're inherently rejecting his asexuality.

If people want to ignore Alastor being aroace completely, that's different. Alastor is canonically aroace (or asexual at minimum), and he always will be. But jumping to conclusions about what people think because you're too naive and stubborn to understand that sexuality and attraction doesn't fit into tidy little boxes is harmful and is a way of thinking that must be changed.

This became longer than intended because I was mostly thinking about the "Alastor is touch repulsed to everyone!" claims some people make, which are frankly incompatible with canon. But the rest of this post is also true.