#i dont engage with the fandom in general bc of this specific issue with people just

[starswallowingsea]

Suguru Geto is a fucking eugenicist and I'm tired of people just brushing that aside to make silly gay fanart of him: an essay.

Hi hello JJK tag I have come to drop one singular essay to you and I do hope you'll at least listen, since it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

Before we get into the meat and potatoes of this essay, lets first define eugenics and why it's bad. Strictly speaking, eugenics is the movement for "racial purity" that requires the planned reproduction of people only within narrowly defined racial categories, as well as the elimination of undesirables within a population (oftentimes people of color, disabled people, and queer people) via sterilization or death. The movement began in the late 19th century and continues to some extent to this day. You can read more about it here if you're interested.

Eugenics goes hand in hand with other forms of bigotry and manifests in how people refer to each other, including some of the ways that Geto refers to non sorcerers within the manga, even before his death and subsequent possession of his body by a spirit. Geto refers to regular humans as "monkeys" and cleans himself in response to coming into contact with him. This sounds familiar, doesn't it?

This wording is very intentional on the part of Akutami and the translator. Geto is a villain and meant to be someone we see in disgust and while there are sympathetic villains in other series and I'm not going to say that you can never like villain characters (some of my own favorite characters are villains who have done fucked up things before), there is a difference between the two. Geto is specifically a representation of eugenicist, racist, xenophobic beliefs that exist in the real world. He is not someone who is fed up with the system, he is not someone who just wants to fuck around and find out.

This comment here further emphasizes my point. One of the core ideas behind scientific racism and eugenics is the idea of biological races or that people with different skin tones have different, distinct biological functions in their body. An example of this in our world involves GFR production and "race corrections" in kidney tests (source) that are only just starting to be phased out in the medical field. The idea of needing a race correction for something like kidney function is a product of scientific racism and indirectly plays into eugenics. Denying that people are the same race or even species as you because of uncontrollable factors (sorcerer abilities, skin color, country of origin, sexuality, gender, etc) is uh. Not a good thing!

"Monkeys" is a word that comes up frequently with Geto's talks on non sorcerers as well. It's a loaded term and again a deliberate choice on behalf of both Akutami and the translator to use it. Historically, due to scientific racism in the field of evolutionary science specifically, black people and people of color were assumed to be more closely related to monkeys and therefore "less evolved" than white people. It's a loaded word used with intention by Geto and by Akutami in the writing of Geto's character.

IN CONCLUSION can we please stop woobifying Geto as a character. His ideals and goals are an important part of him and watering him down to do gay shit with Gojo is really not what we should be doing with him in fan works. Yes Gojo's reaction to losing his friend to essentially the far right pipeline of eugenics and fascism is realistic and it's okay for Gojo to feel hurt and betrayed by this, but the reality is that Geto broke away because he believed so strongly that the world needed to be cleansed of non sorcerers and Gojo eventually accepted that he lost his friend, no matter how much it hurt to let go. This is an important part of Gojo's character arc and development but to ignore the everything about Geto's beliefs and never acknowledge them, or god forbid make JOKES about this stuff is a surefire way to make sure disabled people and people of color don't feel safe talking with you.

Notes:

I cannot stop you from shipping Satosugu or any other Geto ship. This essay was meant to inform people of the deeper meaning behind Geto's beliefs and maybe help some people see that real life issues are reflected in the media they consume. JJK is not a work that shies away from handling harder topics and this is no exception.

I will not be responding to any bad faith arguments on this post or in my inbox. If you have a genuine question feel free to come talk to me and I am willing to have a civil discussion with you about it, but calling me names or insulting me will be met with a block button so just save yourself the trouble and block me first.

[viktoriakomova]

the sensitivity and enforced politeness to athletes in the gym fandom is so fascinating to me. i used to think it's bcs it's a 'feminine' sport followed mostly by women (+mostly ones unfamiliar with any other sport) + the youth of the athletes + the real history of child abuse. But the thing is, 100% of this applies to skating too and skating fans, with few exceptions, don't act like this (they act unhinged in their own, special ways). Do you have any better take on why this happens in gym?

in a lot of ways the whole narrative of gymnastics and figure skating respectively has flip flopped in the last 20 years or so. like now FS (womens singles specifically here) is rife with stories of abuse and teenagers burning out before they hit 20, but it definitely wasnt like that 20 years ago, when the abusive tactics werent very publicized/normalized and when you could have a career well into your 20s and one injury wasnt career-ending. (little girls in pretty boxes was like 80% gym 20% fs). now thats kind of true of gymnastics (in the US) whereas only 10 years ago that was not the case at all. they've also kind of switched places in terms of Team USA's results and popularity among american fans. gee i wonder if theres a correlation there with athlete longevity

anyway all that's to say, i think if i had to name just one thing, it's that by default we as fans think of and engage with athletes (either directly or in the 3rd person lol) as if they're painfully sheltered teenage girls/children. and they just arent anymore. yes the culture of elite gymnastics keeps them kind of oblivious to "normality" as people on the outside would define it (homeschooling is a huge fucking thing here but thats a whole different post), but its not as bad as it used to be, for many reasons.

also the history of abuse, which fans in general (and media, lagging behind by a few years but following the same developmental path usually) have come to talk about in very different terms than even 10 years ago. that was gradual from 2010ish to 2016 and then there was a very big immediate shift when the nassar scandal detonated.

that whole paradox of elite gymnasts being temperamentally extremely precocious but emotionally very immature just isnt true anymore, at least from what ive seen. its a refreshing change. but i dont think the underlying current has changed all that much as far as the vibe (?) goes and people (both gymnasts and fans) still think technical and artistic critiques are personal attacks the way a sensitive teenager would.

and i honestly do think it has something to do with gender, a lot to do with gender tbh, but that it bleeds into other disciplines and sports so it's a less clear line to draw when looking at it superficially. like the mens gymnastics team and how everyone talked about them skipping press after they performed badly, to name just one example. and you're very right about gymnastics being the only sport a fan is familiar with correlating to how they think about all this stuff lol.

compassion is not a bad thing of course, but i have a huuuuuuuuuge issue with talking about and treating literal college students like 13 year olds....

[lemonhemlock]

I dont see Helaena cheating. I see her having feelings for Aemond both romantic and sexual in nature but I don't see her cheating. And IK people bring up the "so you don't want female characters to have agency and sexually fulfilled lives? So you think only men are allowed to cheat? So you think all people with autism are aroace robots with no interest in sex?" arguments and I believe some anti-helaemonds genuinely smack of that kind of thinking, but something it's simply: I just don't think Heleana is that kind of character from what we have gotten. Helaena not cheating doesn't mean all real woman cant ever cheat or all female characters cant ever cheat, its just in Helaena's case she does not. There are female characters who cheat, not as many as men, but they're there. I don't see why Helaena specifically not cheating would be such a big blow? Is it because of the autism? In that case the scarcity of autistic characters should be criticised IMO; we shouldn't need to make one autistic fill a niche by herself. Thats just sad tbh.

It's the only reason I don't believe anything happened between Helaemond on the show and will be very surprised if it has or will unless helaena does a 180, which IG could be a kinda fun angle - her becoming more like Aegon/a Dragon. But there's so much gonna be going on I don't know if we need this. I'm just a little sick of Aemond I guess.

Just to maybe drop a different perspective.

hey there, i want to take this opportunity to assure everyone that, with all my ranting, i'm not really a prescriptivist person, bent on shaping the way people interact with their chosen piece of media :)

so, if that's your interpretation of helaena's character, that's completely fine in my book, and you are entitled to your headcanons. don't get me wrong here, i'm not trying to police the way people consume fiction or how they like to play in their own sandboxes, lord knows there is enough room for all of us under the sun. so, if you think that she wouldn't cheat for various reasons, i'm not here to contradict your view specifically and tell you you're wrong. our opposing opinions can co-exist just fine in the space-time continuum. :))

personally speaking, i interpret their social & familial roles breaking down so much within this cycle of generational inbreeding that whatever this is doesn't even register as cheating anymore since the regular boundaries start bleeding into one another. but that's bc that's what i find a really cool idea to explore, others can and should come up with their own takes

i only take issue with a certain type of moral framework that excludes all other possible interpretations bc it doesn't fall within whatever the circulated papal bull stipulates at the moment. especially when it's over really silly stuff like this. meaning to say that other people are not stupid or badly-intentioned or sinister or secret team black sleeper agents :)) for enjoying alternative possibilities. and, i have to say, it does feel really kind of rotten when you hear how other greens talk about helaemonds like they carry the plague, bc i think there are some really lovely people in this little internet niche that could contribute in a lot of positive ways to the fandom.

i, for one, can't control how people choose to judge me for not shutting up about this (lmao this really unintentionally feels like coming out, which is absolutely ridiculous, touch-grass-levels), but i'd think it rather childish if 1. i felt force to go underground and lie about it so people wouldn't blacklist me for this dumb reason and 2. i couldn't really engage in other ways bc people formed this unfair opinion that i'm some tainted radioactive waste. i write a lot of meta on a lot on topics and i enjoy talking to a wide range of people, which is why i rarely even block, so, that's just a personal disappointment i would have as a fandom navigator.

at the end of the day, it's.... you know, whatever, as far as i'm concerned, because i have a big mouth anyway and i don't really shut up IRL either, so, in that regard i had to already teflonize myself. but i feel like a lot of users are held back from participating and being more active for fear of judgment, which is just a damn shame, as the toxic voices always tend to drown out the ones who would really help turn this place into a more pleasant experience for everyone

so, what can i say, i'm a big softie, y'all

[boxwinebaddie]

Hey Uncle Nina, random question but what is your opinion on Henriel? (Michael x Henrietta) Or rarepairs, for that matter?

awww! while i will say that i haven't put much thought into their intimate/personal relationship, i am a friends to lovers girlie, they clearly have similar interests and i think they could definitely be super cute together, doing little gothy goth thangs (fangs), aw.

as for rarepairs in general...i am definitely in support of rarepairs! i know what its like to ship something that goes against the grain of what everyone is mainly shipping in a fandom, how frustrating it is to have almost no content for your ship/having to make it yourself and honestly...just getting harrassed for liking your more obscure ship! so in general uncle nina rocks on the side of rarepairs...

....speaking of rocking however and NOT rocking the boat specifically, i will say an exception to my acceptation of ships are ones that are obviously extremely gross like incest, assault, anything illegal or very immoral. particularly if its done in extremely poor taste. like i feel like if you are writing dead dove and its conscious, its tagged correctly and it isn't like...excuse me...torture porn that trivializes or romanticizes traumatic thematic topics, i support you.

but i really hate those like 'stan kwords himself and drinks himself to death bc hes a pathetic loser lol haha' fics...very sick to me tbh.

my final note on that and also, not to rock, rock, rock that boat is there are definitely ships that i dont particularly like or agree with, but i certainly will not threaten to kill you over it. do you...i guess. lmao.

but yes! the ncu supports rarepairs, i just happened to like style and got lucky because a lot of other people did too! i also ended up being fond of bunny/kenjorine and bendy which is realtively well accepted and...i will say i want to get more familliar with creek and write them one day...i do not actually know that much about them tbh.

in terms of actual rare pairs though...does reidi count? because i really like reidi? ( i kind of want to write a chance to write reidi tbh ) i also support bebrietta? and uh...tolkien and clyde? craig and clyde sometimes aha. do pip and damien count? uhhh really any of the girls shipped w each other...probably other stuff? yall will have to englighten me to more rare pairs and ships that you enjoy!

so i'll be honest...the real reason i don't know about a lot of rarepairs or engage in ship related stuff is...please take this lightly and im sorry if this hurts anyones feelings but ive felt it for a while/i know its hypocritical because i write fanfic for the south park fandom...

i kinda...hate the south park fandom...a lot...specifically sptwt...soz :/

i just think it can get really nasty in there sometimes? immature?

there's a reason why my twitter is mainly used to update you guys on my writing/writing process and be moderately silly. it feels like a comfortable and safe place to do so, a place of information.

i sometimes hover on the 'for you' side of twitter and i always fucking regret it because it's so chaotic and intense and kind of...gross, tbh?

i respect and love every one of you and i believe you are all good and wonderful people who curate conscious content/arent Like That...

but everyone getting into discourse every five seconds, trying to kill each other, the delusion, people spelling like theyre in first fuckin grade ( some of that seriously gives me a seizure ), infantilizing the characters, treating the HEAVY AND FUCKED UP issues they talk about on the show like theyre jokes or valid ( its partly the shows fault but some of yall minds are getting turned into mashed potatoes ), the echo chamber of just...ignorance and stupidity...bad takes...and CRINGE in general...like i get second hand embarrassment, dude.

i know its for fun and all...but there is a reason why when when i go to write my fanfics, i take the dark ass issues they talk about in south park and try to write gritty but respectful/socially aware, honest and authentic accounts of the effects those scenarios can cause/how that effects yourself/your relationships/your world...so people treating stuff like that like its so haha! Funny!!! uwu!! SiLlY XD is like...

UuUuUuuuUUUUGH

i saw this post that was definitely a joke but it said something like "thirteen year olds should be able to drink and get drunk lmaooo" and it made me....soooooo viscerally angry???? because like???? that is so SICK AND FRIGHTENING TO ME???? i know stan has drank since like eight but that does not make it good??? thats actually devastating????

and even its its not a joke it horrifies and devastates me that you are using a platform and fandom with other young susceptible people in it and desensitizing them to extremely harmful substance abuse and fucking...making light of it. actuuuuually so sick and twisted. jail pls.

maybe its something about being an educator who cares deeply about everyones safety/particularly young minds but...soz not to get too dark...i had a very serious party girl phase in hs and college where i drank very heavily as a coping mechanism, i almost died, it almost ruined my life and its why a lot of stans experience feels upsetting and authentic to me ( bc it was my life & almost my death sentence )

and its really not something that i think anyone, especially 13 year olds, should be joking about getting into because i fucking love and worry about you all out there...i love south park but it pisses me off sometimes because it waters down and bastardizes really fucked up shit...idk maybe i'm being a hater...i love tiktok and twitter and stuff but i am really worried about what its doing to peoples perception

anyways...sorry for being on my soapbox...that has been sitting in my chest for a while. if you actively enjoy sp twitter and the fandom i'm sure your side is lovely and even if i don't think it is, i love you all and i want you to have fun. it just...freaks me out and gives me the ick tbh.

lastly, i'm sorry if my stories seem less canon because of my lack of interaction with the actual fandom and content...i will say i think i've hopefully done a good job of using a lot of context around the basics of south park and adapted them into literature that is both reminiscent of the show we love, the characters that we identify with, while also creating a more mature universe, taking trauma seriously and taking a sort of 2d comedy show and making it into more like...a modern take, a grittier movie adaption...a more serious literature?

idk...i'm trying to take a silly show and make it more serious, sympathetic, dynamic and resonant if that makes sense...

and its hard to tell, but i really hope i've done that and i'm sorry if this is all terribly pretentious, i just am a Kyle and i'm a hard line abt this.

tldr: i love you guys very much, i'm sorry for being a hater, thank you for reading my rant/my pretentious fanfictions, i'll shut up now

-uncle nina, hater arc

[hvmelander]

🔥🔥

Send me a “ 🔥 “ for an unpopular opinion.

i think in some instances whats more important in media and in rp is not the topic but how its portrayed. theres nothing wrong with having specific boundaries and have topics you dont want to engage with. generally ive found people are mostly good at just curating their own dash and leaving people alone unless theres a good reason to warn people about their conduct or what theyre writing. i have sometimes seen in the rpc some weird assumptions being made about people based on topics or characters they write but without any regard to how they approach it. obviously im aware of this with this blog in particular, but i think its a broad minor issue in a lot of fandoms ive been in over the course of 12 years on tumblr especially. there are definitely bigger problems in rpc and fandom but it does crop up from time to time. ive seen it cause unnecessary conflicts and in the worst instances harassment. its odd to me that writers can be paid to write these topics, corporations can profit off of their inclusion in source material, but someone writing online for free because they enjoying writing is a bridge too far. it feels a lot like people are not able to really make a dent in what big budget media is putting out so instead of trying to tackle the larger target they glom on to someone their own size so to speak. rambling but whatever hopefully i got the point across

related to 1, i think a lot of the discourse that happens in the rpc rarely ends up being productive because tumblr rp is probably one of the worst places to try and have big, important discourses that dont end up with people spiralling out into some nasty shit. lots of us are anonymized strangers, some people dont show their face, many use aliases, and theres nothing wrong with this but i think it can make these discussions really difficult. its a problem online generally bc of how much easier it is to do and say things you never would irl because the other person isnt really a person to you bc of that layer of separation. also its easier to mistrust people bc its so easy for people to lie online and i think everyone has heard of secondhand, witnessed, or experienced firsthand some internet bullshit if not outright horror stories. an environment like that is not a great one for productive conversations about like.... ethics and politics. its not unique to tumblr or to rpers, twitter is a hellscape for similar reasons.

[izzyliker]

hey - this is one of the mods of the bi jon project. we don't actually dislike or disagree with pan jon at all, we just want to make a project focused on and celebrating bisexuality. our carrd is a bit rambling, but frankly we were trying our best/overcompensating to try and make sure people didn't misunderstand us and do - well, this. our intentions are good, and it's really kind of disenheartening to see all the hate we've gotten for what was meant to be a positive project. (1)

you're under no obligation to answer these, but i saw some of your posts in the tag and felt like reaching out because you did give us even the tiniest bit of slack in good faith. honestly, if you have any advice about what in our carrd is so overwhelmingly bad, we'd be happy to hear it. we've been trying to respond to the overwhelming amount of criticism we've got in a positive way, and take peoples' suggestions. (2)

as for why 'no anti-antis' was at the bottom of our rules list, it's legitimately bc we were trying so hard to be preventative about this negativity that we forgot to add it when we first posted the blog, and just remembered later. again, you're under no obligation to answer these, i just feel like no one's really actually letting us defend ourselves/are taking things in as bad faith a way as possible. (3)

im not exactly sure how the posts showed up in the tag bc ive been very purposefully not tagging them, also ive blocked all of you back (not sure why you blocked me if you actually want feedback, so it seems more like you just want free positive pr and not actual feedback) so its unlikely youll see whatever it is that i reply to this but whatever. 

the issues have all been repeatedly brought up to you so i dont really see how me repeating all of them once again could help. when i last looked at the cardd the things that stood out immediately included. 

pitting ace & bi identities and people against each other REPEATEDLY,  

starting off with a guilt trippy tone and maintaining it throughout (in my experience this is the #1 best way to receive backlash because people do not want to participate in events where you feel like youre being guilted into it, which going into scrutinizing detail over there not being enough content and passing judgement onto authors or artists over it is something that comes across as guilt trippy.),

repeatedly equating asexuality with sex repulsion (not to get into the misleading information about modteam aspec identity breakdowns, since you claimed that 3/4 of the team are aspec, which is technically correct, but what you didnt say was that only one is acespec. surely you know that [allosexual] aro and [alloromantic] ace are not interchangeable) and calling using biromantic over bisexual a “misunderstanding” of the identity as if how to define romantic vs sexual attraction (how to divide, if or if not to divide, use interchangeably different labels) isnt a deeply personal choice ace people who experience romantic attraction make, 

claiming that bisexual jon is canon (he isn’t. this is why people are suspicious of anti-other mspec identities sentiments. which theyre right, if youll be so kind as to stick around til the last paragraph) and repeatedly implying that the reason there isnt “enough” content centering bi jon because the aces are simply unable to not fixate on his asexuality (again, pitting identities against each other),

making the banned ship list way needlessly confusing and including ships that dont even include jon to it, which simply comes across as some kind of a list of bad ships, idk. a way to bypass this would simply be to say “we are looking for portrayals of healthy relationships!” and that couldve just been it. if you felt that that wouldnt exclude specific ships (eg. jondaisy that a lot of people write as a relationship between trauma survivors who have done very bad things trying to get better and learning to trust each other) it is possible to simply say “the modteam is squicked[/triggered] by ships with daisy/elias/peter and we’d like to read all of the works submitted so we’re asking not to receive submissions with those ships.” hating ships is literally completely normal but making rules hard to parse is going to attract questions, especially when the implication is that ships are excluded on the grounds of morality, and a blatant power difference ship (jonelias) is equated with jondaisy, which is from what ive seen almost exclusively shown to be a relationship between equals. that makes people EXTREMELY confused about where the line is. thats why youre getting so many questions about this.  

in general the carrd was spotty, guilt trippy, and needlessly moralizing where it definitely did not need to be. the key to getting people to engage without getting backlash is to make the event seem fun. when your carrd is filled with stuff about unrelated negative stuff people are not going to think it’s a fun event at all. 

and none of this even gets into the fact that at least one of the mods has a history of open hostility against pan people. i heard through the grapevine that he has since made a fauxpology about it, but frankly it already shone through in the language used in the event descriptions. its extremely hard to take any of this is good faith when it is easy to see that one of the organizers is quite fucking clear about thinking pansexuality is biphobic and the carrd is or at least used to be full of anti-pan (and other mspec identity) dogwhistles, and is notorious in some of the tma fic author circles for being extremely fucking nasty about trans men writing fic he doesn’t like to the point of pretending that we’re all cis people (in case youre not keeping track that is misgendering us by implication) because he doesn’t like it. i think some of you (or maybe all of you? idk) in general could stand to examine whether your engagements and participations in the fandom have been at all about having fun or adding positivity to anything, or simply making posts about what other people are doing wrong. it seems that every post i see from anyone in this group is guilt trippy and authoritative, and sadly this translated directly into the event. 

when youre, say, a trans man whose first touch to one of the mods was a post about how fic where trans men have piv sex with cis men is hurting him personally and making it a moral issue and not a matter of a simple preference to the point where he feels comfortable making claims about the trans men (and transmasc nonbinary people) writing fic about trans characters re: their gender or whether theyre fetishizing trans men, your willingness to engage in good faith with an event hosted by him that features numerous red flags is not going to be unconditional. 

im sorry to hear that it has been bad for your mental health, and idk whats fucking going on with this event anymore, but my good faith interpretations have diminished significantly since i saw the shit tmc specifically has been saying about pansexual people and pansexuality as an identity label. i have no clue where the rest of you stand but tmc has repeatedly, consistently shown himself to be unable to act in good faith towards anyone other than people who agree with him.  

[ufonaut]

also THANK you bc youre one of the few ppl ive ever seen/interacted w online thats a comic fan that addresses the problem of people only consuming comics through out of context panels n like theme blogs/accs and just pretty art. like omg i feel a lot of solidarity w u even tho i dont actually know u personally bc i used to feel like i was being “cynical” for my opinions but its literally just critically engaging w media n its genuinely disheartening to see ppl taking critical engagement and actually reading comics as being cynical and not letting people enjoy things. ur a BLESSING and it makes me happy to see your posts! i think people dont understand you can like… respectfully disagree and just move on w your day </3 you probably already know, but youre not alone in this! you have at least one random anon in your corner!! i hope you enjoy the rest of your night :))

EXACTLY!! EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! this is so tremendously well put, it's exactly everything i've been saying & believe in and i can't thank you enough for reaching out, it's genuinely extremely reassuring to know there's someone out there who shares this point of view

the thing is no one would call themselves a fan of a movie they saw a poster/gif of & never actually watched or a fan of a musician they've seen a couple pictures of & never actually listened to but suddenly all logic goes out the window when faced with comic books! the reason i advocate so much for really actually engaging with comics as a legitimate medium is specifically because i want people to enjoy things, i'd love for them to find a book or a series or a character that's everything they've ever dreamed of in canon as i have. no fandom interpretation necessary, no ignoring the parts you don't like, just genuinely engaging with the text & finding something that feels like it's meant for you and you alone -- a possibility that exists solely & precisely because there are so many comics out there in the world. it's a wonderful thing to have as a hobby!

i personally consider comics one of the most accessible forms of media in the world -- readcomiconline is a godsend & it only requires an adblock to be absolutely perfectly safe on both desktop and mobile, not to mention it's got everything from the literal golden age of comics (stuff from the 1930s-40s that's not been collected anywhere or you'd have to spend $100000 to even breathe in the same room as!) to weekly releases.

and, speaking as someone who's completely broke as we speak & generally grew up poor, it's an astoundingly cheap hobby to have. free methods aside, if you happen to have a local comic shop or a convention or anything remotely similar then you're bound to find a whole bunch of comics for absolutely insane prices. i go to the london comic mart, which is a free entry event, every two months & come back with 30-50 individual issues for £10! hell, i do even make an effort to support what dc's putting out right now and generally stick with 2-3 monthly series from creators i sincerely love and a couple specials, which still comes to max £10-15/month. i can't think of any other hobby that's genuinely this affordable and this fun, i consider getting into comics to be one of the best thing that's ever happened to me

but all the same, i don't even believe people need to own any of this at all, they've just gotta read it to call themselves fans. it's the simplest thing in the world.

SERIOUSLY ANON THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!! YOUVE GOT ALL MY LOVE

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

[nonbinaryresource]

ive been thinking abt this for a little while & have been needing to ask someone abt it. i am nb & have always considered myself trans but recently ive not been vibing with the trans label bc i am so sick of seeing ppl exclude & invalidate nb ppl. ik that i shouldnt stop doing smth just bc other ppl r being assholes but its so tiring to see ppl constantly say how u dont belong or arent valid. srry this is long & kinda rambly i just dont really know how to feel abt it

I will directly address your ask, but I’m going to start by telling you a story about my journey with identifying as asexual and queer.

.

When I was about 11, my friends suddenly started drooling over magazines and calling people hot, and I didn’t know what it was, but I knew I did not feel whatever it is my friends were feeling.

Until I was about 16/17, this part of me remained a mystery to me and to my friends. I never had crushes, I never found people hot, I never liked complimenting people physically, I was uncomfortable with sex on TV, and I didn’t even like platonic touch. Now my group of friends were all repressed and closeted queer folk, so I didn’t have to deal with “being left behind” as my friends dated. But the later we got into high school, the more my friends began discovering and exploring their sexualities.  A freshman became a part of our friend group and was openly trans and gay. One friend came out as gay. Another as bi. They started commenting more and more about other’s looks and having crushes.

Still, there was nothing on my end. My friends used to think I was just being vague and secretive because this is what I tended to be like. I don’t think they’ve ever realized how much of it was that I truly didn’t know or understand what my lack of sexual feelings meant or that it could even mean anything. I used to just consider it a “nothingness” of myself. Until, by complete chance, I came across the term asexual. I immediately connected with it. It explained so much that I didn’t even know I needed explained.

I came out quickly after that and I was really excited and happy and proud to know who I was and what how I felt meant. My friends were great and supportive. My mom was a little ignorant but overall supportive. AVEN was great and a community for me. But if I tried to talk about it anywhere else online…

Well, the effects of how people treated me would fester for years. See, I came out as asexual before exclusionism (the specific movement of anti-aro and anti-ace erasure and gatekeeping from lgbt+ spaces) was a movement or a named thing. Yet exclusionist attitudes were exactly what I faced. My queer friends all completely accepted me as one of them and I helped co-run our school’s new GSA with the rest of them. But online, as a teen, I was facing 30+ year olds telling me I wasn’t queer and that I was just trying to seem special and that I needed to shut up about my asexuality and my experiences and that I wasn’t valid and that asexuality wasn’t a real thing and that even if asexuality was a real thing it wasn’t valid and it certainly didn’t matter.

I graduated high school and went to college and was no longer really in touch with my group of friends. I therefore completely cut myself off from any lgbt+/queer community, even though a friend invited me to join the college’s queer association. I stopped participating so much in online asexual spaces. I become wrapped up in other things.

A couple of years went by and a lot of things in my life changed. By chance, mod applications for a blog about aro and ace headcanons for a fandom I enjoyed came across my dash. I had extra time on my hands and thought I could help, so I applied and was accepted. This increased my exposure to the aspec community again and thrust me back in… just around the time exclusionism was becoming a specific and named movement of bigotry.

At the same time I resisted these ideals, I was also still hurt and unhealed from what I’d gone through as a teen. I internalized a lot of the hatred and gatekeeping. I was so hurt and so tired. I just wanted to be able to exist in peace. And people I considered myself one of were harassing me and dismissing even my biromanticism. So I struggled with my identity and my asexuality. I did not specifically become an exclusionist, but I turned my back on the lgbt+ community and spaces. I did not consider myself lgbt+ because I learned that doing so only brought pain and upset and made me feel alone and isolated. I didn’t speak a lot on exclusionism or inclusionism, but at some point I did make a plea to my fellow aspecs to just let the larger community go and be our own community and accept that maybe we could be straight. I did it out of desperation and hurt, wanting to stop feeling targeted and attacked and to stop seeing the fighting on my dash and in the tags. I just wanted us all to be happy and feel accepted and supported.

On that post, one wonderfully kind and patient person opened up a discussion with me, explaining their own hurts over exclusionism and being so damn exhausted of them and fellow aspecs being targeted and excluded and written out and not supported and feeling like they had to split their asexuality from their other queer identities and how being asexual was a part of them and how it had strongly shaped their experiences, especially with realizing and coming to terms with the other parts of their queer identity. And through their raw honesty I came to realize… I had never stopped to process the harassment I had faced and the pain and hurt that cut me so deeply.

It was a changing point for me. I realized that I had handled my pain in a bad way and had ended up lashing out at other aspecs instead of the people who were actually hurting me. I realized how much I had hurt myself and held myself back and cut myself down and dismissed parts of myself trying to fit into the box exclusionists had laid out for me, as if I could ever made them happy enough to stop harassing me and just let me exist. I cut myself down for them, but the truth is that exclusionists don’t just want aspecs “out” of the community. They want to hurt us. They want us to hurt. They want us to doubt ourselves. They want to feel strong and powerful, and they feel they can achieve this through bullying us. Perhaps some, like myself, are trying to appeal to their oppressors by pointing out another vulnerable group they could target more/instead. They are passing on hurt instead of standing up to it and so they are actually festering in hurt instead of changing anything.

Today, I am a staunch inclusionist. I understand myself and the issues aspecs face much better. I am a more compassionate person regarding the confusion and upset aros and aces have over their identity and their place in the world. I feel more stable and confident regarding my identity as an asexual - and now as an aromantic - queer person who is lgbt+.

But it was a long, hard, difficult journey to get here. It was full of a lot of turmoil. I wish I would have had a happier journey where I felt more supported and accepted, and I hope I can help provide more stability and support for future generations to not have to go through what I did.

.

My point (or one among a few, anyway) is that I deeply and personally understand how you are feeling and the decision facing you now. As someone who went through a very similar experience, my advice to you is to take care of yourself and to prioritize your mental health.

It’s okay if you can’t handle identifying as trans right now. Maybe you do need some space from the label (and definitely from the hatred and gatekeeping). Maybe you need to pull back from certain communities or blogs or discussions.

However, I will say that not identifying as trans may not bring the peace you desire. It may end up making you feel even more isolated. Not identifying as LGBT+ certainly didn’t help me. It was reactionary and it only made me feel like there were less spaces for me. That said, you may find peace in this. But I think the bigger action to take is to separate yourself from those who are saying harmful things more than to separate yourself from a label you feel really suits you. Use your block button liberally. Don’t force yourself to partake in spaces where gatekeeping is allowed or encouraged. Follow and listen to more people who are inclusive.

I think burnout like this is unfortunately pretty common. You do not have to force yourself to face this hatred or exhaustion because you think it’s the right thing to do. It’s okay to pull back and just take care of yourself. Just work on some self-care. Work on building up a community of people around you who don’t resort to bigotry and hatred and exorsexism and gatekeeping and identity policing. Engage only with what you can actually, honestly handle.

We will confront and move past this bigotry only by acting as a united front. The responsibility for improving things isn’t on any one person’s shoulders. And no one needs to be on the front lines 100% of the time, especially at the cost of their own wellbeing. Take care of yourself and rest now before you completely burn out and break down.

You do not have anything to prove, okay? I have both hope and faith that there is a lot more to your journey - a lot more good things and a lot more happiness and belonging. Take whatever time it is you need to help heal yourself and recover from the hurt and harassment that’s been plaguing you. You are important and you matter, much moreso than whatever label you use at whatever point in time. It will be okay.

I am here for you.

~Pluto

[evakuality]

The Druck fandom does feel a little over policed, but i find it rather enjoyable to hear a variety of opinions, so long as they are respectful and well considered (bc lets face it, a lot of the issues that are covered are quite heavy and deserving of some thoughtful discourse). I enjoy reading your reactions because, even when i dont see things the same way, they are still illuminating. I hope you continue to watch and you're not deterred by any unwanted interactions.

Honestly, anon, I’m not sure how much I should be engaging.  This is quite clearly something that hits at a lot of vulnerable spots for a lot of people but in a multitude of differing ways that seem to rub raw against each other.  My issues around bullying and the effects I see from that are rubbing up against other people’s experiences around homophobia and racism etc.  The issues ARE heavy and difficult, and that’s what makes discussing them so fraught.  I took a bit of time out just now to consider it all and I think it’s best if I really do back away.  I have very strong opinions about a lot of this stuff and it seems that they hit some rough edges on some people.  

I’m sorry that I offended some people and made things unfriendly.  It was never my intention, and I always try to say things in a way that makes it clear that they are my own opinions and that other opinions are valid and I just wish we could have more nuanced discussions about things without wild accusations being thrown around.  But I’m very tired rn and it clearly didn’t come out well, and it seems my words have been taken as accusations in themselves.  So I apologise to those who were affected by what I wrote and I’ll try to revise it so it doesn’t appear like an attack.  I didn’t mention specific names because it was never about specific people but rather the general atmosphere created by a series of posts.  But it looks like people have read it and taken it personally, so I’ll try to rework it even more.  And in future I’ll move on and let others do their own thing.  

I feel like there should be a space for all people to say what they think respectfully, but I’m not the one to be taking part in that.  I’m too close to some of these issues and I can’t manage to frame my feelings about them in a way that doesn’t affect other people.

[comicteaparty]

April 29th-May 5th, 2020 Reader Favorites Archive

The archive for the Reader Favorites chat that occurred from April 29th, 2020 to May 5th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following  question:

What common comic creation “rule” have you seen broken that wound up working very well for a specific comic?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I have seen the 'rule' floating around years ago that advised against hand lettering in comics ( and included hand drawn SFX too.) I dont need to elaborate on how silly that 'rule' is bc there are so many beautifully done hand letter featuring comics out there!! I think if anything? Break rules as much as you can- this leads to consuming mediums differently each time and opening up the door to new possibilities!(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

What!? Hand drawn sfx is AWESOME!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

( it was such a dumb 'rule' these comic 'pros' tried to push on younger creators, similar in a 'do and dont' meme--- ridiculous!)

RebelVampire

I'm gonna cheat sort of. Rather than a comic creation rule itself, I've seen a shit ton of web design rules broken for comics. No responsiveness. Can't find social media buttons. Super hard to click between pages. Convoluted layouts. Lack of areas for engagement. And yet so many of them can have unimaginably frustrating sites that are not user friendly and still get popular because the comic is just that good. So for me it shows people are willing to put up with a lot if they like something.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That's a very good point!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Generally comics have a strong rule about not getting too wordy and text-heavy, but one of my all-time favourite webcomics, Unsounded, is very verbose (https://unsoundedupdates.tumblr.com/ CW: 16+ comic here, lots of language, nudity, gore, etc). But it really uses it effectively. The comic is so lore-rich with great world-building and attention to detail. I couldn't imagine it any other way.

kayotics

Haha, it's true about websites, though. It's hard to make a GOOD website, and with webcomic creators being mostly one person or small teams, having someone who knows how to do a website well is tough. Especially long-running ones, which usually haven't been updated since inception.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

One odd thing I've noticed regards update schedule. The typical advice I see is that keeping a consistent update schedule keeps your readership on-board. Like, the idea is that long hiatuses lose readers. But, I've noticed a few comics where the reader base was massive, growing, and devoted despite irregular gaps of weeks or months between pages. Homestuck (https://www.homestuck.com/) is an obvious example of this, where the gaps in updates didn't stop the fandom from growing (and in fact, seem to have bolstered it). And there are a few other comics I've heard about in passing that have a similar property. Though, I should note that this is true for things besides webcomics - like, I've noticed a lot more fandom devotion for things like Steven Universe and Sherlock in the gaps between episodes than in the times when episodes are airing. I think what ends up happening is that these series' garner a decent-sized fanbase during a period of consistent updates/episodes/whatever - and during breaks, fans create more fan-content than they would normally (out of boredom and such). This fan-content ends up attracting more people to the original work, which means the fanbase grows massively during the break periods. I wonder if anyone has ever attempted that sort of thing intentionally? Like, deliberately messed with their update schedule in an attempt to draw in fans in places they wouldn't be otherwise.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

We also know of cases where comics lost readers over hiatuses, so it doesn't seem like a reliable strategy, at least for comics with smaller readership.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, whenever I go on hiatus I lose most of my readers. Hiatuses are unfortunately unavoidable for me because of a lot of RL issues I need to deal with, and it always means losing what little readership I managed to gain.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

yeah i imagine it only works if you have a big enough fanbase where your readers will start making a bunch of content without you

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i'm not even sure that's true for big fandoms like steven universe

i felt like i always saw more fan content after a new episode as opposed to during a hiatus(edited)

and i'd guess that many people did stop watching during the year+ hiatuses(edited)

either way i'd never risk going on a hiatus purposefully.

Though, I have seen comics that go on regular, planned hiatuses between chapters that I don't think lose readers for it(edited)

Phantomarine and Alfie (warning nsfw) are examples(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

If I do lose readers, I don't notice! Mostly because the very few I have are... consistently loud A very long and popular comic like Alfie probably gains enough new readers between postings to make the viewership drop almost negligible. I could be wrong, though. But I can't imagine it being too harmful.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I used to remember an old comic rule about speech bubbles kept inside the panels but I've seen creators bend alot of that rule with vertical comics, heh! From warping speech bubble to SFX flying around. The panel rules are broken to make characters seem to leap out of their boxes. It's an interesting concept.(edited)

Capitania do Azar

They told me comic panels had to be inside the comic page. I disagree

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

laughs in freeform layouts what's a panel

[sjweminem]

hi dennis! i noticed that some of the blogs who send/reply nsfw asks r minors! i dont want to censor u & i hope this doesnt come out the wrong way bc im in my early 20s too & i know that bandom mostly consists of kids. i know u dont know who ur interacting w most of the time and i remember reading that ur uncomfortable with that kind of interaction so i wanted to let u know. i dont want u to stop making posts bc it's ur blog but i thought a lil heads up on who messages u would be important to u!

i do appreciate the gesture, i try to keep track of people’s general ages and don’t follow kids anymore myself but also the vast majority of folks who follow me aren’t my mutuals and lots of them interact w me/my posts so it’s a recipe for ppl to slip thru the cracks. and god i remember bein a kid and doing everything possible to access some Grownup Content.....i should probably mention more often since i get lots of ppl coming and going that my blog has been flagged as adult for 5+ years for a reason, and i can’t/don’t want to sift thru everybody who hops on board, and like i said i remember being in my teens and i know yall are gonna do what you want but i DO ask that any replies/messages (even anon) don’t get explicit, cuz i don’t wanna unwittingly do to you what weird folks knowingly did to me at like 14/15. even when you don’t find an issue with it then one day you’ll grow up and understand why they shouldn’t have interacted like that w you.....

tbh i can’t recall anything like. vulgar i’ve responded to lately but maybe you and i just have different bars for what counts as nsfw interaction, and how much leeway to give high schoolers. like for me the major specific thing i don’t want kids trying to engage me in is discussing dirty concepts/stories/thoughts/etc, or asking questions that would prompt that kinda response (either fandom related or regarding personal lives), since that’s specifically something other folks HAVE appropriately come to my blog to do for like as long as i’ve been here. that’s not the only application, i just think it’s more effective to point out clear examples for do’s/don’ts than just say “don’t say anything dirty to me” bc it’s both too subjective and removes responsibility from me personally. 

i know it’s a vague concept but to hopefully clarify my standards and what i hope from everyone else online i’ll try to explain what i mean more....under a cut bc it’s long and boring:

the standard i have for interacting with minors online basically comes from both my experience as a younger party, particularly with my cousin who’s been almost exactly like a sister to me for my whole life, and is 7 years older than me, and relationships w younger coworkers. regarding the former, we’re both only children but that lifelong relationship exposed us to the range of normal jokes and conversations among older and younger siblings. from the latter, i developed an ever-present real-life standard that translates into my online behavior.  for instance at the hospital job i held for years, we had a lot of high schoolers come in for a few hours every evening, and this squad of 16/17 yr old girls i got like....honorarily inducted into at 22 yrs old were some of the funniest fucking people i’d ever met, and we joked the same way, i knew they were smart and aware, but if talk turned to their own sex lives or whatever that’s when i’d step away (except to get lecturey and overprotective and they would make fun of me). if my input was wanted in some way that wasn’t for advice or understanding then that was the line, so that’s what i carry online bc i have a sense of what normal joking and talking looks like among varying ages. 

like if some 17 yr old replies/messages me sumthin like ‘juicy buttwhole 👅💦💦💦’ that’s something i would first of all laugh at for real with my real mouth, and register as something akin to regular younger-older sibling behavior, and probably reply to w britney_spears_yeah.gif. but if something doesn’t seem like just a silly (or even terrible bc i have Disgusting youths who torture me w their digital words) but self-aware joke or statement, and instead gets too detailed and personal and hoping to yield something other than my standard sarcastic and/or tongue in cheek reply, that’s when i don’t touch it. i actually don’t respond at all bc i don’t want to draw attention to this provocative statement made by a kid who didn’t know any better

lastly i know i come off more ambiguously online than irl, so for everybody if all else fails just read my reply in complete deadpan monotone and if it makes sense that way you know it’s just my standard way of talking 98% of the time and doesn’t go any further than that

[not-poignant]

"i also know readers who stop commenting if they don't get replies" i do that (though i'm not very proud of it bc it lowkey sounds like blackmail "if u dont reply i wont comment"). writing a comment even if it's only a few paragraphs long can take me 1-2 hours (or more) so if i know i'm not even going to get a simple "thanks" from the author, it feels like i struggled writing the comment for nothing. either i stop commenting or i only leave really short comments like "i like it" from then onward

Yeah, same same, pretty much.

I think about this a lot. Because a lot of the rhetoric is ‘well the author put in the effort to write, so you should be able to comment’ (which I hate, it’s a false equivocation, and is bullshit). And then there’s also the rhetoric of ‘if you think it’s hard to comment, you should try being a writer’ (which I hate, because that’s just manipulative dreck).

It’s one thing to encourage comment culture, that’s great. Fandom is meant to be - for some - an interactive experience after all. And that’s why I think that authors/writers who comment in response to commenters, consistently get more comments. Because you have the bulk of readers who just want to read, they are not necessarily there for the full fannish experience y’know? I guarantee that most of us just often want to switch off, read, masturbate/fall asleep/cry/feel fluffy (whatever your kinks are) and that’s that. Right?

BUT then there’s those of us who enjoy the fannish experience too. Like, some enjoy it via lurking. Reading the comments and replies. Coming to Tumblr to watch. Some like participating. The people who like to participate, they want - amazingly - participation. And if you have a conversation that goes like this:

Person A: ‘Hi I did this thing!’ Person B: ‘I LOVE THIS THING. Here’s why! Omg!’ Person A: *silence* *never responds*

Like...that is not a very participatory experience. So for the people who do take the effort to participate in the author-reader experience via comments specifically, I do believe - at least for myself - participating in that is important.

I look to see if authors comment on reader responses, before I respond. If they don’t, or if they have a low hit rate (i.e. they responded to one thing, and nothing else), 99.99999999% of the time I don’t comment. Those of you who comment on fics you know you won’t get a response for, you are doing god’s work and I hope you are being surrounded by cute animals you aren’t allergic to and comfort foods that never cause you adverse reactions.

That’s not all of us. I daresay that isn’t even most of us who do participate in AO3 comment culture. And there is a comment culture, and it’s more than just authors occasionally engaging in guilt-tripping to get readers to comment. The author has a role in it too, if they want it, and it will encourage more comments, if they take that path.

If I see that the author responds, I’m more likely to write a comment. Like you, I find commenting hard. I think it’s worthwhile, but only in a participatory sense. I.e. I don’t really see the point in screaming praise into the void. Comments for me often take a long time to write (Tumblr replies don’t count, I can dash them off quickly, but actual AO3 replies usually involve this process: ‘read fic on my phone -> get up from bed / whole body pain -> walk to desktop computer and pull up AO3 link -> spend 1-2 hours composing comment -> possibly too fatigued to do anything for the next few hours.’

Tbh, even if people didn’t have a high energy cost for writing comments, I still think it’s valid to want it to be participatory, when it’s a participatory format. Comments on AO3 offer the opportunity to be threaded and so on for a reason, after all.

It’s a hard subject to talk about, because authors will often throw ‘but I put the hard work in to write it in the first place!!!!1!!!’ - but one thing they tend to forget is no one is obligated to engage in any created work just because it was created. No one is obligated to like it once they do. No one is obligated to respond once they have liked it. And no one is obligated to respond in the same way if they like it. Some people subscribe, some people bookmark, some people kudos, some people comment, some people comment if they know they’re going to get a reply, some people send asks, some people look for the next fic because they’re just there to read.

I think also, it’s a little bit compliment culture. It’s just a fact of life that if you praise someone endlessly and they constantly say nothing or even knock you back instead of saying ‘thank you’ - eventually, the compliments stop. Because you’re being treated as though your praise is worthless. Praise is something that makes (some of) us vulnerable to give, just as it can make us vulnerable to receive it. I honestly think, for me, responding to comments and praise in particular, is entering into a pact of cooperation and participation.

I don’t always respond to everything, though I really want to, but yeah, anyway, that’s why my personal policy as a writer is ‘always respond to comments’ (even if people hate it, my general perspective is that most don’t, my comment counts quite outside of my own responses have always been higher than average), and my personal policy as a reader is ‘if I love this, I will think about commenting, but the likelihood drops precipitously if I see they have a pattern of non-response.’ On the other side of that, if I get responses from an author, I am WAY more likely to comment in the future. My joyful participation will get a joyful response, and I will know my words aren’t worthless, in the same way the author will know their words aren’t worthless.

And that’s why I do things the way I do, and why I relate to you as a reader, anon. I know we’re not alone, even though people rarely talk about this stuff.

(I also know that some authors find the writing much easier than writing responses to comments, because of time / emotional labour etc. I just also think when you factor in how many fics readers are often reading, there’s a time / emotional labour issue there too. (I mean let’s remember folks, fanfiction is meant to be fun for everyone). People just need to do what works for them. And authors who don’t respond to comments and find they get less comments over time need to understand that more might be going on than just ‘no one comments people hate my writing.’ I have seen authors do the whole ‘comment culture is shitty no one comments on my stuff’ only to see that they *hardly ever respond to comments* - Like, you do you, but you have to own that, and own that there are reasonable responses from readers to that, too. Tl;dr Authors: You might start a conversation by offering a fic, but if you shut down conversation after that, don’t be surprised if people stop ‘talking’ to you). 

[i-want-my-iwtv]

Ive noticed a lot of fanart of IWTV makes the boys look like girls. its not just one artist its the fandom's thing to draw them w not "feminine" but *female* features. Im a ftm trans artist so ive spent a lot of time looking at how male vs female faces differ and the iwtv fandom draws men with smaller jaws, bigger eyes, softer features, bigger lips, small/arched eyebrows. Besides long hair and elaborate dress the characters dont look female so do u know why the fandom draws them like that?

(1) First of all, I would encourage you to post your own interpretations, share with us how you see these characters, we have an insatiable hunger for more fanart ;] 

If your headcanon is different, that’s great! Variety is the spice of life. 

(2) In my experience, having been in VC fandom for 20+ years and on tumblr for about 3.5 yrs, yes, I’ve seen a lot of IWTV-era fanart depicting the male characters with feminine features, you may be right about that. But not all of it is.

[^X Louis, Claudia and Lestat, IWTV-era, by @superhiki, who often uses Daniel Tighe as a reference for Louis, and fandom favorite Danila Kovalev for Lestat (and, not pictured here but worth mentioning, Hiki uses fandom favorite Bjorn Andresen for Armand)] 

(3) I get the impression from your message that you consider that “fanart of IWTV makes the boys look like girls” is bad/wrong/incorrect. If that’s not your point, I apologize, and you can skip to (4), but if it is your point, please see this post about fandom policing, here’s an excerpt from @spiderladyceo:  

“And no matter how well-meaning you are, you don’t get to tell other fans what they can and cannot write, or draw, or enjoy. 

When you start telling people what they can create or enjoy, you invalidate the purpose of fandom, and create a situation where instead of free exploration, we have something similar to mainstream media in which certain tropes or topics are not allowed. This limits the free expression, exploration and innovation so highly prized in fandom.

…You don’t get to tell fans how to enjoy fandom. You mind your own path, your write your own fic, you write meta on why x trope is offensive/problematic/bad but you do not tell other fans how to enjoy fandom.”

(4) I don’t quite understand your distinction between “feminine” and *female* features, except that I consider “female features” specifically to mean female genitalia and secondary sex characteristics (breasts). So I’m only going to address “feminine” features. 

On that point, “smaller jaws, bigger eyes, softer features, bigger lips, small/arched eyebrows” are not exclusive to female characters. Jason Momoa is a man withBIG EYES, thick lashes, arched brows, big lips, soft jaw, round face,… and I think he is a cis man.

(5) I don’t speak for all the fanartists, but I sent your ask out privately to several fanartists, fic writers, etc., and the general consensus was that if you want to know why a fanartist or writer has made certain artistic choices, you should ask them directly about it and they will answer if they choose to do so. 

Some reasons they gave for drawing characters the way they do: 

Some fanartists have a different idea of what is “masculine” than you do. It just varies, even in people who express their assigned gender, features differ wildly. 

Anne Rice often describes the characters in feminine and androgynous ways. 

Many of her vampires were turned young, before developing your idea of “masculine” features, or they never did. Armand was “perhaps seventeen” (TVA) when he was turned and had stopped growing, had not developed masculine features by that time. “My hands are as delicate as those of a young woman, and I was beardless,” (TVA)

It was more fashionable for men during the IWTV-era to be fashionable and cultured, the style of which might be considered a little more feminine by today’s standards. See Dandy.

Their own aesthetic taste may be inspired by anime/manga. One example is Dany&Dany.

Fanartists often use models and actors as references. Many male models and actors have feminine features. One of them, Andreja Pejić, was a fan favorite as Lestat for many years, and she transitioned MTF in 2013.

^[X] fanart of Lestat/Louis by @sheepskeleton based on [X] this picture of Andreja Pejic (left) and Erika Linder (right).

Fanartists may have been inspired by movie!IWTV. Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt already had somewhat feminine features in the early 90′s, which were enhanced in movie!IWTV. This is one of my fave fanarts of Lestat, and it’s based on Tom’s Lestat:

^X Lestat by *HRFleur is so lovely. And someone commented on it that they think he is handsome w/o looking feminine. 

“I don’t think he looks like Tom Cruise. I think he looks better! it’s as if you took the essence of Lestat from Tom and pulled the real Lestat out. He looks as though he’s about to say something sarcastic or perhaps become peevish over something. I like that you made him handsome without looking feminine.”  

Feminine Jesus Christ:

The idea of drawing men with female or feminine features predates fanart. People depict Jesus Christ with feminine features when there is plenty of controversy about what he actually might have looked like:

^Not my comparison pic, I took it from Janet Carr @ THIS BUG’S LIFE’s post about the Jesus depiction issue. Carr writes that the more feminine Jesus depictions are “actually pictures of Cesare Borgia, son of Rodrigo Borgia, Pope Alexander VI, and brother of Lucrezia Borgia… Pope Alexander VI had all previous depictions of Jesus destroyed in about 1492, and replaced with images of his son. Henceforth, these have been the images used to depict Christ.”

^Here’s our feminized Jesus and early 90′s Brad Pitt, for comparison. I remember Brad being criticized in the early 90′s by men for looking too feminine. The pic above is from a magazine, the Italian caption is “Blond, blue eyes, beautiful in spite of himself, and with a smile >.”

//end. Sorry for the long post, everyone. 

I didn’t put any of that under a cut bc I spent a lot of time on this response and I have found that people will reblog, trying to make a post into a discussion, without reading what’s under the cut. People may still want to try to do that, as this is a social network that encourages discussion, but I’m probably not going to engage any further in this topic. I think I’ve made my point, which is that fanartists draw what they want to draw.

[misterbitches]

Im not intelligent at all. In the conventional sense. The ramblings of a girl who just has sooo much going in in her head it's constant. But im not a genius. Or that confusing.

It just sounds like I am bc fandoms have this issue where they can JUSTSO point out the issues in soletiing. They can pick and prod and go oh problematic! But then you go to name the problems and the difficulties within society like for ex: the idea of representation in general. Salivating over it. How fucking sad that is. How we are trained to accept it. So in a BL and also RACE in the bl genre they exploit viewers naivete both domestically and internationally. Ive seen tons of people liken being asian to being a person of color. However, in their predominantly homogenous society (or intentionally publically homogenous society), they are not "poc" (also name the of color; i dont use bipoc idc if u do but it's called being asian guys cos yall aint talkin about black ppl lmao)

They as humans seeing other humans who look like them everywhere, engage with the world differently than an american in asia or asians living outside of their home country (like bae doo nanwhen she worksnin the US is not the same as the bae doo nanworking on a korean program) I dont complain about it in everything i see bc ppl say it ALL THE TIME. but it is NOT the same. Being a person of color is very distinctly an american concept. This is all stuff people will get to know on their own if they choose to dig more.

I do my best to underline what my ugly little eyes process. How i figure things out as a black female american artist too! Im hard on shit cos i should be. I take it seriously. And even if i dont take it seriously bc THEY dont then thats their problem.

I know this is a complaint that I am not alone in. I know it's the internet. I just don't get how people can write really heavy analysis but they refuse to actually probe the underlying issues. Not everyone is me, or like my friends, but if there's way fewer people talking about this stuff it seems absolutely glaring when theres few people engaging in the way i do. It seems like im the glitch but I am thinking just as much just differently.

I really loved where your eyes linger but there was little deep class analysis. I remember few convos a bout it. I know a lot about korea (sigh being a black ex kpop fan lol mess) and i love the history but all ofnit matters! Korea's relation to labor!

People bringing up thai actors snd actresses leaving the industry and doing acting as something quick. As an artist~ who went to film school with insanely wealthy ppl and isnin tons of debt you have to understand how shitty that is. People have monetary access and they just fucking do whatever just because they want to. Meanwhile you have young people being coerced into this bullshit mainstream life to LITERALY just make money bc they dont come from a rich background. The wealth gap in thailand is BAD, theres a dictatorship, they had a fucking coup. The governments like here do not respect their people. Their marginalized groups. Trans thai women, black thai ppl, poor thai ppl. And it LITERALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING EFFECTIVELY IN CAPITALISM. No nothing can be perfect but if it's going into our eyeballs and we can view the worlld critically then why the fuck not!???

I dont say the things i see are wrong always. I reply when i think i need to. I try and engage with others but not to kuch avail. I just want to rb stuff and tdhink lajfhhdjwhjej.

But like yea theres a lot of just wrong or misguided stuff. A lot of the times it is just historical inaccuracy in framing or idk. A refusal to think outside the box. I dont care. Theres more to life than just sort of looking and not thinking especially for othrr artists.

Idk im sorry. I dont see how i can change how i view things. I really wish people would expand their palettes too and go deeper into other means of art from places! Things not in the mainstream! Theres a lot of good thai artists and a lot of them critical as fuck about their country as they should be. Authority, austerity, patriarchy, capital, racism etc like that is central to a power thats interested in growing gains and fiscal and social power. Theres rly radical or left leaning etc ppl out there in the world and these countries in these communities. So they exist. No people in these countries dont have NO clue whats going on. Cultural relativism is alsos something people should understand. I had a good talk with ppl on here a while ago about that. Talking about shit, critiquing, but being respectful to a group. Part of thay is realizing these groups CLEARLY know their own issues and all our cultures share the same goal. Guess what it is. It rhymes with acquiring wealth. Money means you hurt people. In the post, we talked about use of "wife" and "husband" which is a stupid joke that has been "explained" a billion times and yet the explanations still dont seem to answer or justify a minor problem (it's very funny to me that a language that doesnt have gendered pronouns is now very specific about two men. Hmmm wonder why. It is annoying.)

So im not the only person on the planet doing this. Or the few ppl ive seen that do. Im not new my thoughts arent new. Ive gotten to see another side to a culture i knew not much about and that means i can put the context of my beliefs and life and try and understand thheirs. For ex i learned from ITSAY because of a sign that said 'french food' that they were the only country to not be colonized back then. Do you know how integral that history is to their region? That was an interesting detail (i didnt finish itsay bc ihad a lot going on and i was rly upset that i would see hownrich they are and i hate that.)

Anyways thats my complaint. It used to feel like a sting of rejection. I left online for months in 2019, i started organizing more, joined a union, trying to do some panther work shit like that. I learned a lot in those months and it changed my life! But when I came back, I felt so isolated. It wasnt my true friends tho sometimes theyre ANNOYINGGGGG (love u) but it was me being like "if we are going to complain guys then lets put our money where our mouth is" lets be fucking serious about it then. No say it with your chest dude. It isnt difficult. Go with the fucking flow, talk about it, critique it, think. You can still fucking like itnor love it.

I am BLACK ok and i love rap. I am a black woman. I will continue to clown black men that cant seem to not clown themselves and listen. No i wont support monetarily: drake is a creep and i hate him but i bump that niggas song. Thats fucking LIFE. I got so sick of hiding myself and it became clear that it wasnt that i wasntthinking well or hard enough. They just didnt like that i said we need to commit class suicide and inspect out middle class sensibilities and middle class wealth hoarding (google it) if thats what we engaged with. Every part of you, antagonize it. I still have my privileges; class, skin color, even my father being a nigerian immigrant, me being cis, im not str8 but not a lesbian and those are differences.

Insecurities in general but some shallow thoughts (?) on discussion in "fandom" space. FYI, this will most likely stay the same. I tend to stay in my own bubble socially IE me and my friends are similar in our views. During this awful year while running my union's account, im surrounded by like minds. Me and my friends? We changed together. We grew up and saw what we didnt like and what we want. We do our best.And i CHOOSE my life to be that way bc it should be. There is no solution. I dont believe in solutions because the solution is to abolish capital or just divest. Abolishing capital and labor are a huge one and i will die before that happens (but so help me as long as im alive? Black women to FREEDOMMMM is my motto!) so making your own path in life is the best thing an artist can do IN MY OPINION.

However with technology and stuff this puts another layer onto things. Tech, social media, this shit....it THRIIIIIIIVESSSSSSS off of conflict and shallow readings of the world. We are literally primed for it. Engagement in bites. Impossible for me with my brain; i got used to it and i paid for it by limiting my scope. Not being encouraged to THINK AND READ before just speaking

(For ex i am in iww, i helped form a branch here. It is a radical union. Unionism is imprative to me-if ur interested u should read up on some. Look up peter cole! Google inthesetimes Ilwu. Gives you some understanding. Ive always been progressive and now i am....very left idk ic ant label myself. But even in my progrssiveness i had the gall to tell my white friend, whoa has her privileges but i had mine with our class disparity, that we dont need unions, i have WORKED retail. Ive done barista work for sonoing and i do gig work. So i wasnt out of touch. I had been stiffed even with a shoot i was working on by rich kids. So i had a frame of reference . But i didnt know what the FUCKa union was and why it is imperative. Then learning about anarcho syndicalism and all these other things. It changed my fucking life but two years earlier i was this idiot spouting shit like that making one of my best friends fucking upset. We DO AND CAN CHANGE. Think!!!!)

So were i a creator for tv id just constantly try and push the buttons if i need big money. Make them sell into me (thank you sonic youth!) theres Endless possibilities guys which means theres SO MUCH TK EXPLORE!!!! When i wanna have fun with it i just have fun. When i want to think i do. I dont understand why we are so dedicated to upholding things and doing mental gymnastics to end up in a space you dont need mental gymnastics for. What about these critiques makes you uncomfortable? Saying we're all part of the problem as spectators? Im sorry but we will always be. Thats LIFE. God fuck. Fuck me. I feel so fucking worthless and stupid sometimes. I know I am not. I know i am talented and intelligent. I know my friends and family. I know how to approach ppl. I know how to tell people if they are rich but want to be progressive whatsup. I choose how i live part of that is being ok to say what i want.

Ironically consrrvatives say this shit alot. But they arent ever alone bc their ideology is default. But yea it does feel shitty. It even feels shitty when ur in left circles but people STILL dont even wanna do that. These perspectives really arent ss many as they should be. I dont want to feel so alone with it. I know there are more. I just love art and the world so fucking much, endless possibility. Endless pain but endless good.