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suchine-toki · 3 months

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hello! I read your Tae meta from last year and just wanted to say it was great and really gets to the bottom of the problems with how Sorachi handled Otae. My (unasked for ;)) two cents is that I think he was going for GinTae endgame but then changed his mind somewhere before Lesson 238 which I read as his way of giving a 'this is how it would happen but I'm not going to do it' resolution for GinTae. And it's fine to drop the romance but knowing he's not going to make any couples endgame and 1/2

Hi! First of all, thanks for reading and taking your time to send this to me, I really like hearing other people's thoughts! I hope you don't mind that I combined both asks, given that they've points in common and I already had a draft of the one I received a while ago 🙈 This made me realize that I hadn't thought about it too much before… Even if I've talked about this topic with other people before, usually, the conversation ends with us agreeing and moving on to other topics lol so I think this is the first time I'm analyzing it. I'll try to do it from both the characters' perspective and Sorachi's intentions as the story's author. Before continuing, I want to clarify that my intention isn't to convince anyone to stop liking it, I just wanted to explore this topic and wow, did I explore it, because it ended up being much longer than expected 😂

That said, I think one of the biggest reasons why many of us thought Tae was going to be Gintoki's main love interest is because of the setup. Tae is the first woman from the main cast to appear in the series, and her dilemma kickstarts the story and allows for the formation of the Yorozuya as we know it. Moreover, she's Shinpachi's older sister and also develops a strong bond with Kagura, so it was expected that she would also develop a strong romantic bond with Gintoki, connecting her to the main trio of Gintama.

However, as I mentioned in the previous post, things started to change with the introduction of Kyuubei, which solidified the Kondo-Tae-Kyuubei love triangle, and then with the introduction of Tsukuyo. I watched a video by Abbie Emmons titled "7 Deadly Romance MISTAKES Writers Make ❌ avoid these chemistry killers!" to help identify some points in the relationship between Gintoki and Tae, although I must mention that I don't think these were mistakes on Sorachi's part, quite the opposite, they were very conscious decisions. I won't go point by point; instead, I'll summarize the intent of the message.

Half of the video is about the development of intimacy between two characters. I think most of us can appreciate that at least until the Benizakura arc, it was clear that Sorachi still had in mind to develop the relationship between Gintoki and Tae romantically because they'd a scene where they were alone, had time to talk, and showed that they cared a lot for each other. However, as the series progresses, we stop seeing these kinds of scenes between them, as well as scenes where they're seen thinking about each other or having physical contact.

And although at the beginning of the series Tae participated more actively in the Yorozuya dynamics, after the introduction of Kyuubei, they're seen spending most of their time together, even when they're with the others. Tae remains an honorary member of the Yorozuya until the end, but it's clear that Sorachi wanted her to represent stability, emotional support, the place they can return to that will welcome them with a smile. So, even though Gintoki and Tae still care a lot for each other, their interactions will continue to be framed within the context of the Yorozuya for the rest of the series.

That said, I couldn't say exactly when Sorachi stopped considering a romantic relationship between them. I'd to look up chapter 238 because I didn't remember what it was about lol (for reference, it's the one where they're at a stall and there're only speech bubbles, in which other characters who look like Gintoki and Tae confess they're in love), and I think your interpretation is certainly interesting. The placement also makes sense, which is shortly after the arc introducing Tsukuyo, and it also follows the trend of other characters being the ones who tease them, and not themselves.

The other half of the video is about how the characters' relationships with the rest of the cast are shown. It's highlighted that there needs to be an emotional reaction from a character to the idea of the other being interested in someone else, something Sorachi showed in many different ways but not with Gintoki and Tae. In her case, at most, she was shown getting annoyed at Sacchan, but only when she was provoked first. When it came to Tsukuyo, there was no reaction. Similarly, Gintoki has no reaction when Kyuubei or Kondo demonstrate their love interest.

The last point of the video, but not less important, is when characters have more romantic chemistry with other characters. In Tsukuyo's case, I think Sorachi was already a more experienced writer who knew his characters better and knew what his story needed. In particular, I think he wanted Gintoki to have someone close with whom he could relate but who wasn't directly connected to his past, among other things. And as I mentioned before, most of Tae's emotional energy in the series is with Kyuubei, followed by Kondo.

But why Sorachi didn't continue developing Gintoki and Tae's relationship romantically? The most obvious reason is simply because he didn't want to lol, but the explanation behind this, I think, is due to two main reasons. The first is that he wanted to keep the relationships within the Yorozuya platonic, and since Tae is an honorary member of the Yorozuya, it felt wrong to establish that there were romantic feelings involved. By comparison, it would be like confirming a relationship between Kagura and Shinpachi. And yes, Sorachi did some ship-teasing more than once between them too, but at the end of the day, he chose not to pursue it, and I think maintaining the familiarity is a cause.

The other reason is that as he wrote the story, he realized that Gintoki and Tae didn't fit well together. Tae can give Gintoki a sense of stability, but what can he offer her? Tae clearly values stability as well, hard work, having money. But Gintoki, due to his circumstances, doesn't meet those standards. If you think about it, the only two occasions when Tae unequivocally showed interest in Gintoki were when he lost his memory (Memory Loss arc) and when Hijikata was in his body (Soul Switch arc). Two occasions where Gintoki wasn't himself. But she liked that he seemed more serious and diligent, which implies that Tae's type is different.

It's also worth mentioning that Gintoki isn't shown making the same gestures towards Tae that Kondo or Kyuubei, the other two characters who are canonically in love with her (which is why I think they're a good benchmark) do. For example, while Sorachi chooses to show Gintoki teasing Tae about her breast size, in contrast, he shows Kondo buying her a kimono that will look good on her regardless, you know, like a supportive partner would. Even with all this, I understand that het shippers might've felt uncomfortable with the idea of pairing Tae with Kondo, and the other viable option was Gintoki. I think Sorachi was also aware of this, which is why he decided to develop Kondo and Tae's relationship in the final arcs.

While we're at it, I prefer kyuutae by faaar. As I've also expressed before, although I think Kondo is a great character, his persistence doesn't sit well with me. But whether it was because of heteronormativity or because Sorachi identified with him as a fellow gorilla, it's clear to me that he decided to emphasize Kondo and Tae's relationship much more. Even when gintsu and kyuutae were stagnating, he continued developing kontae as much as he could (probably because he'd already done the heavy lifting with the other two ships).

Sorachi didn't plan many things in his story, which I think is both a strength and a weakness. One of the things that reflect this is, for example, that Hasegawa was originally going to be part of the Yorozuya, an idea he later abandoned, but the remnant of Hasegawa's presence in the series remained. In the same way, I think his initial idea was to pair Gintoki with Tae, but eventually, he didn't. It seems that he also had the idea at the beginning to end the series with certain couples, but later decided to leave an open ending in that sense, although some of his inclinations were clearer than others.

I've seen people say there're subtle hints throughout Gintama that they fell in love, and while I don't want to say those interpretations are wrong, I think Sorachi is quite straightforward when it comes to these kinds of things. Even with unrequited loves, like in the case of Katsura and Ikumatsu, he showed that there was love. However, in the case of Gintoki and Tae, during the 15 years he wrote the manga, he didn't, probably because he felt it no longer fit the story after a certain point. That said, I think their relationship works just fine without the need for any labels.

Thank you again for stopping by, if you've another point that you would like to discuss feel free to message me or send another ask 🤗

#Gintama #Sakata Gintoki #Shimura Tae #I think the reason FS feels worse to me than BS is bc it felt like Tae’s last chance to shine and Sorachi completely missed it #To be fair not all of kontae’s development happened near the end since there was a good bit in the cockroach mask ep and a bit in LP #I think I could’ve structured this better bc it feels like I just rambled 🙈#Again it’s fine if you like gintae I also have ships that I like for the subtext I see #Ask #Analysis #I can write #my post

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accirax · 3 months

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Disventure Camp All Stars Power Rankings (Round 11)

Heading into the latter half of the season, things are sure to get interesting! Let's hope we can reach a finale everyone can be happy with, hm?

In case you haven't seen my previous power rankings ( 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 ), the Power Ranking Format is essentially a way of ranking how well each player is doing in the game. So, in essence, this is a long form way of predicting who I think will be eliminated from the competition in the next episode. There will be spoilers for last week's episode (obviously) and its power ranking, so make sure to read that first if you don't want to be spoiled on how I ranked our last boot. If you want more clarification on the rules, that first post will help you out as well. Furthermore, I'm going to be spoiling the preview for next episode, so if you want to go in TOTALLY blind, save this for later. Let's go!

Recap - Connor's Return!

Current Point Total: 41 acquired / 63 total (same as last time)

Mannnn, how come the one time I'm finally right, I don't get to score any points for it?! I should get to add a bonus +63, just for kicks. That wouldn't mess up my math at all.

Anyways, even though he's not a personal favorite of mine, I already detailed why I thought Connor would be the best character for the writers to bring back in the last power ranking. Plus, we get to hear Michael Kim's voice acting again. He's quite talented, in my opinion, and I felt bad that he was voicing two characters this season only for one of them to be eliminated really early (Connor) and the other to largely disappear for some reason (Oliver).

My current guess for Connor's character is that he'll be a finalist, but that he'll lose. I hope he doesn't win, just because, in-universe, his character needs the money probably the least. Still, after he managed to come back, I feel like it would make sense for him to be in the finale, and he's had a lot of talk about making it to the end now. He'd probably pair with Alec, and not Riya? But, that's assuming both that Alec isn't also in the final 3, and that the two of them proceed from this point to a conclusion of friendship as opposed to rivalry/detestation. Dubious.

Trailer Analysis

The trailer shows a lot of scenes advertising some sort of seemingly important conversation between Gabby and Grett on this beach. I don't know why Gabby is in her swimsuit and Grett isn't, but I doubt it's too important. If the scenes are shown in order, it seems like the pair are hanging out, Grett explains something, and Gabby grows fed up and leaves. Although, crack theory: that last image could be of or to the alternate version of Gabby.

Always nice to see some new relationships forming! Connor seemed to enjoy Advising The Youths in S2, and, boy, do Tom and Jake need some advising. And if he gets to solidify the bonds within the heroes' alliance along the way, all the better. Also, it looks like Jake is on the same beach that Grett and Gabby visit? Angsty beach, I guess.

It seems like this challenge may be some sort of capture the flag at night kind of thing? From what I've surmised, it might be that there's only one flag, and whoever manages to be holding on to it at the challenge's end point will gain immunity.

Yul and Grett are fighting again. Notably, 1) based on the light in the sky, this is probably at the beginning of the challenge, and 2) Grett appears to be sticking up for herself a bit more.

Yeah, here people are, fighting over that individual flag. It seems like Riya and Connor will be allowed to participate in this challenge, despite already having immunity locked in. If one of them wins, would they simply steal that potential immunity from someone else (AKA, only Riya and Connor are immune), or could they choose to give immunity to someone else (AKA, Riya, Connor, and Player C are immune)?

Perhaps Aiden is giving Jake a chance, as per Lake's advice. I just now realized that Jake and Lake are only one letter apart. Maybe it's Aiden's destiny to ultimately befriend people named -ake after the game initially pits them against each other.

Derek is sad about... something.

Ally will wind up with the flag at some point, but Gabby will steal it from her.

Also, there are wolves??? Wait a minute... are Jake and Aiden K-I-S-S-I-N-G?!?!?!? (/j)

Grett will trip Tom when he has the flag. Based on the lighting, this may be very close to the end of the challenge.

This scene might be pretty close to the end of the challenge too, though. Grett and Yul fight off Jake, with seemingly no flag in sight.

"That idiot does realize he's screwed the moment his immunity wears off, right?" "I can't wait."

Although this conversation likely takes place after the challenge is over, I really expect this dialogue to be about Connor (I doubt that ONC would want to spoil that the person who wins the challenge uses he/him in the trailer.) This doesn't really tell us much, other than that Connor doesn't do anything in this episode to rekindle any goodwill with the villains. Shocking. Also, I can't help but feel like this line is steeped in dramatic irony.

Power Ranking

#1: Connor

and

#2: Riya

Not much point in distinguishing between the two because we know for a fact that both of them will have immunity heading into this episode. I don't even know if they can give it up, and, besides, Riya is too selfish and Connor is too in danger for either of them to likely consider doing so. Barring a medical evacuation, there should be no chance that either of these two will be eliminated in the upcoming episode.

#3: Gabby

Why Gabby? Like, seriously, why Gabby? I suppose she could be considered too much of a loose cannon for the villains, but we've now reverted to a 5-5 split. If the villains somehow don't want to work with her, I'm sure the heroes would snatch her up as a free vote. Or, even if she voted completely according to her own whims, it would still be a 5-4-1 in which the heroes probably would not target Gabby.

I really just can't think of anything. It's weird. Like, vibes-wise, I'm not narratively opposed to Gabby going home, I just see no reason why it would happen. Even if she and Grett get into a fight, or if she starts talking to herself more again, is anybody really going to vote her off? Is she that annoying? Is she that threatening? I don't think so.

Gabby also still has some narrative threads that need payoff. First, the reappearance of her alternate self, which the end of last episode put forth as some big revelation. There's also the advice she received from Ellie, which was to backstab the villains before they could get her first. Either or both of things could probably be resolved within one episode, although, the latter would be weird if it ended in her elimination. If she didn't listen to Ellie, I guess? That's counter to, like, Gabby's entire character. She'll be fine for now.

#4: Jake

Speaking of narrative threads, if the writers decided to axe Jake here, it would be so bad. Or at least, it probably would be. You can't just have Ashley tell him to look forward to the future and then have his future be immediate elimination...!!!

But, seriously, it would be a weird turn of events. I guess maybe the plotline could be that Aiden listens to Lake's advice and decides to give Jake a chance, which Jake takes, because character arc. That decision to be selfless and care about others could lead to his elimination... somehow? And also we wrap up whatever the TomJake conclusion is meant to be during this episode? Yeah, seems unlikely.

That's also factoring in that I still see no reason why the villains would want Jake in particular out this time. In the last actual vote we had, the villains were able to seize power because of Jake and Aiden's quarreling. Until the two of them can provenly work together, they're an asset to the villains team. Jake has also competed in five individual elimination challenges without winning a single one. (The closest he got was the underground cave one where Ellie kicked his ass in the end, lmao.) He's truly not much of a threat.

Until he wins the season, that is. I'm sure that part of my want to rank Jake so highly is that I'm currently predicting that he'll be the winner of this season. We've just spent so much time on his various plotlines; it feels like this has to be the season of Jake. But, what do I know? I thought Fiore could win this season, and that was super wrong. We're a long ways out from the finale, but, still, I don't think Jake will go down here.

#5: Grett

As has been Grett's M.O. for a while now, I just don't understand why she would be the target of anyone's fire. Sure, Riya has immunity, which limits one of your villainous options. But, if you're looking for the most threatening villain, it would be Alec, and if you're looking for the villain you want to hang out with the least, it's Yul. Even Gabby is probably more prominent as the most likely double-crosser when it would come to a hit from within the villains alliance itself. It's possible that, if another villain (such as Alec) gains additional immunity, then Grett could become the most strategic or whatever by default. However, at that point, the level of coincidence would be so high that it would feel like the writers were trying to get rid of her, which I don't think they are.

It does seem like Grett is going to get a lot of focus this episode, though, which is theoretically cause for concern. I'd say that the most likely situation in which she goes home this episode is that she gets into a big fight with Gabby, resulting in Gabby agreeing to become a 6th for the heroes on the condition that they vote for Grett. However, this would require Gabby to side with Aiden and Tom, who she has personal beef with, over Grett, who she has a long history of forgiving. I also think that the scene of Grett tripping Tom could indicate that Grett will be the one to wind up with immunity (although the scene where she and Yul fight Jake might argue the opposite), so there's a chance people straight up won't be able to vote out Grett anyway.

While not impossible, I think it would be quite difficult to cut Grett off here while satisfyingly concluding her arc of standing up to Yul. Therefore, immunity or not, I don't think the writers will. And I don't think the players have much of a reason to can her, either.

#6: Ally

I guess it's fitting that Ally winds up in "technically the bad half" because, while I can't think of many particularly good reasons for her elimination, I wouldn't be super surprised if it was her time to go this episode, either. Mostly because of the whole love triangle drama stuff. You hate to see it.

I think it's really the current lack of character dynamics for Ally that makes me worry for her. Like, sure, she's got her rivalry with Jake going on, but... what else? I guess she kind of has an extant relationship with Connor from S2, but... only kind of. She was also in an alliance with Yul in S2, but fat chance that's going anywhere. She voted with Aiden and Tom last vote, and she's shown talking to Tom in the preview! That's... something? Ally isn't even Jake's #1 hater. Girl is suffering.

Furthermore, Ally could theoretically be voted out along the same lines as Ashley for being the least problematic hero left (other than arguably Connor, who has immunity). None of the villains seem to have a particular vendetta against Ally, but that doesn't make her immune.

The main thing is really just that none of those reasons are particularly compelling. Ally could be eliminated, I guess. I don't know. Nothing feels very right about it, though, which makes me think it isn't her time. We'll see. I'm sure Ally knows what a meat shield is, even if she never wanted or expected to be considered as one. Such is the narrative.

#7: Aiden

Aiden does have Riya, Yul, and theoretically Gabby gunning for him, which certainly puts him in danger for elimination. He clearly could be the villains' target... unless?

Hear me out. I think Aiden could be the one to win immunity this episode. What do we see in the trailer? Well, once the sun has fully set, we see Tom holding the flag, until Grett trips him and (presumably) steals it. However, possibly after that, we see Grett and Yul on the ground, Jake having tackled them, with no flag in sight. Where did the flag go? Well, earlier(?) in the episode, we saw Jake and Aiden hiding together in that tree, as well as generally strategizing together. I think it's possible that Aiden will decide to give Jake a chance, at which point Jake will offer himself up as a distraction/sacrifice so that Aiden can steal the flag and win immunity. That kind of plot would work well for where both Jake and Aiden's character arcs are right now, in my opinion.

Of course, it could also be Tom who wins the immunity. If the tackling scene happens fairly immediately after Tom falls, I don't know where the hell he went, and Jake definitely could have offered himself up to help Tom, too. You know what? Let's just...

#8: Tom

I really struggled with whether to put Aiden or Tom first. Even now, I feel like I put them in the wrong order. Hopefully my indecision foreshadows that it won't matter, because neither will happen. Do I finally have my finger on the pulse...?

Personally, I feel like there's been way too much setup for the heroes finally reuniting this episode for anyone other than a villain to go home. We've got Connor vowing to eliminate a villain. We've got Ellie urging Gabby to turn on the villains. We've got Lake advising Aiden and Miriam advising Tom to give Jake a second shot. We've got Tess giving Ally her full support to crush it in the future. We have Ashley's entire elimination motivating Jake! It's possible that the writers could try to make hero drama stretch out a little longer, but I think it'd be better for the show if they didn't. Everything is pointing towards a shakeup to the status quo, and (not that I think the writers should abruptly change their plans for the season to account for what fans want, but) I think that's what the fans desperately crave.

Along those lines, though, if we're going to punt for one more week and allow a hero to go home, I don't think Tom is a terrible choice. His elimination would shake up the very TomJake + Aiden status quo, as opposed to Ally, whose elimination would truly feel like killing time. Tom has erred enough this season with the whole "lying about having a boyfriend" thing that I think his elimination as a casualty of the "twink wars," as Kristal put it, wouldn't feel too unfair. If the writers want to focus on Aiden and Jake building a friendship in the future, I could see them wanting to get rid of Tom to give those two space to breathe. The TomJake angst likely wouldn't be resolved in this episode, but if, say, Jake is in the finale, I could see their plotline being resolved by Tom being Jake's assistant in the end.

The villains do also have reason to target Tom. Although he's engaged in his fair share of catty behavior, he was the one alongside Ashley to propose that Aiden and Jake put aside their differences to work together. More importantly, Tom is almost certainly the physically strongest hero left, so if the villains want to keep the immunities to themselves, it could be good strategy to eliminate Tom before he can go on a challenge run.

Then again, Tom has actually also won 0/4 of the individual challenges he's participated in so far, so. Maybe not as threatening as he seems on paper.

#9: Alec

If it ain't broke, don't fix it: Ashley was the most heroic hero, so if the villains had the choice of who to eliminate, they should take her out. Alec is the most villainous villain (or at least, the ringleader of the crew), so if the heroes had the choice of who to eliminate, they should take him out. Such simple logic turned out to be viable last time!

Yeah, Alec is mostly down here because I think a villain will go home, and I think he's the most sensible villain for the heroes to eliminate if they can. We've also gotten some closure for him and Fiore, now, so to the extent that was keeping him in the game, it won't any longer.

However (unlike Ally), Alec still has other relationships that I think it would be a loss if we didn't see play out more. For instance, what will it be like now that Connor is back in the game? Alec reacted with a lot more hostility to Connor during the last challenge than I had initially expected. But, I'm willing to believe that he was suffering evil brain rot from hanging out with Riya for the last few days and Fiore for the last few minutes. Whether there's a friendship to be salvaged or not, I'd prefer more than one episode to explore what's going on there.

There's also Alec's relationship with Riya, although, honestly, I could see that one turning out interestingly if Alec did go home this week. Thus far, I don't think their friendship has really been set up in a way that foreshadows either of them turning on each other. If I'm right, that would mean that, at some point, one of them will have to go home with the other not involved and still in the game. If Alec goes home as a result of Riya having immunity, I could see it further increasing the animosity between Riya and Connor, which could be cool.

I've made it pretty apparent... everywhere that Alec is one of my favorites, so obviously I'm rooting for him to survive this episode and make it even farther into the game. But, I totally understand if now is his time, and think his elimination could be used to set up cool things for the future. That being said, I do think there's one person who might be a little more likely than Alec to get booted in the upcoming elimination.

#10: Yul

I might have the exact timing slightly off, but personally, I've started to notice that big events in DCAS start being set up about three episodes before they actually happen. Ellie had about three episodes of behaving poorly with Gabby disapproving before it finally resulted in her going home. If Jake finally starts turning things around this episode, I think he vowed to do so about three episodes prior. Hunter was the fourth boot (Episode 5) after him being a subpar boyfriend was set up in Episode 1 and him being mean to Fiore was established in Episode 2. I think Tom coming clean over lying about having a boyfriend was about three episodes after he originally said it. You see what I mean?

Along those lines, although Yul has been a jerk throughout the entire season, I think that Grett started voicing serious concerns about Yul about three episodes ago. And thus, the clock started ticking. It's been long enough now that I think that timer is finally about to ding.

As I mentioned in both Grett and Gabby's sections, it seems like their chat will be important to what goes down in the episode. Personally, I think that either Grett and Gabby will both vote with the heroes to take down specifically Yul, or that Gabby will work with the heroes on her own to eliminate Yul for Grett, if Grett is too hesitant about it. That would be one explanation for Gabby walking out on Grett in the end-- Grett expresses her concerns with Yul, but still can't manage to turn against him, so Gabby angrily leaves, determined to do what's best for Grett even if Grett can't twist the knife herself.

As for Yul's relationships, well... he has Grett and Riya, but obviously neither of those are going to end happily in the long run. His role with Emily seems to have already elapsed. He doesn't have any really sincere or deep connections with anyone, which makes him a lot more expendable when it comes to ongoing plotlines. The most sincere connection he has is probably with James, who he got to talk to last episode. I honestly wonder if that conversation might have been the wrap up to Yul. We learned a lot about him in it: no jokes, no tricks, he really is just a bad guy who hates other people. The fact that he has no depth is his depth. With that answer given, I don't know if we need Yul around anymore.

Also, the fandom is getting sick of him, and for understandable reasons. It's still way better here than it was in S2, in my opinion, because Yul is not in a position of power like he was in S2, but it's true that Yul does bring a sort of foul, negative energy to any scene that he's in. I, at least, usually find it funny, don't get me wrong, but it still sucks to see your other faves get verbally abused, especially in the scenes that aren't played for laughs.

(Also, the Spanish voice actor choosing to improvise a slur is obviously not okay. Naturally, that wasn't accounted for when initially planning the season, so it shouldn't factor into the elimination order, but it's still true. I think we should allow everyone involved some lenience, because they're really young to have so much pressure, responsibility, and hostility thrown in their faces. However, it's also not like being a young indie artist on the internet gives you a full pardon to act cruelly towards minorities. In my opinion, either side stoking the flames with hotheaded and/or rash behavior right now seems like it will go down poorly for everyone involved. We should be aiming for a sincere apology and a tentative, yet calm reception for now.)

Well, those are my thoughts this week! After perfectly predicting Connor, I'm hoping this post-merge, post-return time period will be the beginning of a hot streak. But, we'll have to see what happens in the upcoming episode. For all I know, Yul could have immunity or something. That's the danger of the merge, I guess. Bye for now!

#disventure camp #dcas #dcas power rankings #disventure camp spoilers #check out who's BASICALLY ON TIME THIS WEEK!!! >:D #fuck everyone else this is MY redemption arc #connor disventure camp #riya disventure camp #gabby disventure camp #jake disventure camp #grett disventure camp #ally disventure camp #aiden disventure camp #tom disventure camp #alec disventure camp #yul disventure camp

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azsazz · 7 months

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Do you have any tip for new tumblr writers? I’ve wrote on other apps like Ao3 and wattpad but never on tumblr so id appreciate any tips you have!

Hi! Yes, I have some tips you can look at here:

Writing Tips

Writing Smut

Series Tips

And here are some suggestions/tips for posting on tumblr!

Most people have (as you can see on my blog) a masterlist, which is a collection of all of the fics they post. These can be formatted anyway you want (mine is currently by character), and it includes all of the links to each fic. This is a great way for whoever comes to your blog to easily see all of your work!

You're going to want to tag your posts, similarly to ao3, at the bottom of your posts. obviously, this is also completely optional. for example, if i write an azriel fic, i usually go with the tags: azriel x reader, azriel/reader, acotar, azriel, etc. you can also just put whatever you want down here like your thoughts, etc. tags will help boost your post and then you post will show up when someone searches all of tumblr for that category, so wherever you want it to show up, tag it as that.

I HIGHLY suggest using a "read more/keep reading" drop if your post gets too long because a pet peeve of mine is scrolling through a post that's so long and i just keep having to scroll and scroll and scroll lol. (like above)

i usually write my fics in a doc outside of tumblr so i have it somewhere else and because i dont trust tumblr that much lol. super easy to just copy and paste it over.

a lot of writers start their works with headings, as i'm sure you've seen around. mine are all pretty consistent looking, i'll attach a pic.

^ so here i have my title, who the pairing is, and the summary, warnings, and word count, and then a break after to where the story begins. i normally add the first 2-3 paragraphs of the fic and then add a "read more." Sometimes I'll add a notes section under word count. these are all optional! I put word count because i know some people don't want to read super long fics or the opposite. i've seen people use images/gifs and other headers, so feel free to get as creative as you want with your posts! that's what makes it a lot more fun than ao3 haha.

ummmm that's all i can think of off of the top of my head...but thanks for asking! you can also check my blog for the tag azsazz writing tips and all of the asks/posts i've tagged with tips will show up!

i hope this helps! 💙

#azsazz writing tips #ask azsazz

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quinloki · 1 year

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Writers - Where You Gonna Post?

Hey all, so the TL;DR of this is that I post on Wattpad, Tumblr and Ao3 - All have their pros and cons, and this post is going to get into those (with a neat little summary at the end).

Note this is not an endorsement or criticism of any of them. Just my personal understandings of each, the pros and cons I've noted, and a chance to put it all in one place.

We're going to touch on - Ease of Posting, Visibility, Tagging, Searching, Cost, Security & Visibility, Functionality, and less objectively - Vibe.

word count: 1,874

-:- Ease of Posting -:-

Wattpad: 7.5/10 Tumblr: 9/10 Ao3: 4/10

Wattpad and Tumblr have direct-from-source formatting, meaning your paragraphs, italics, bolds, etc. stay in place when you copy from Word, google docs, or - I assume, Scrivener.

Tumblr has more options for font size, color, and links within the body of the text, and so scores higher than Wattpad's more limited capacity (Wattpad does allow for centering, justified, etc. positioning of paragraphs.)

Ao3 has far more CAPACITY than both, but the ease isn't there. You have to know your HTML markups, and for so people that can be a pain. There's a very useful Google Doc markup template that can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you, but hyper linking, image inserting, and other functions that are available have to be done manually.

This is great, in terms of options, but lowers Ao3 on the whole "ease of use".

-:- Visibility -:-

Wattpad: 4/10 Tumblr: 3 or 9/10 Ao3: 9/10

Wattpad has an algorithm and their tagging system - compared to Tumblr and Ao3 is pathetic. I realize I said I was going to be objective, but that is being objective. It's a spaceless tagging system, so you get really awesome tags like roronoazoroxblacklegsanjixreader and... yeah. There's also a limit on the number of tags, so if you're doing a collection of one-shots it's hard to get everyone in there.

On the upside, their search function doesn't just search by tags (would that it did though.) So having information in your summary will help your visibility. What really gets your stuff visible are reader interactions - knowing someone established on Wattpad and having them give you some shoutouts when you start is your best bet for being seen.

Tumblr's visibility - tagging, searching, etc rely HEAVILY on what kind of writer you are. SFW items are far easier to search than NSFW ones, and the Mature label hides you from people who have opted in to see Mature content, which still boggles me. The in-site search function leaves a bit to be desired, but google searches in better enough to off-set that a bit. Tagging is far more robust on tumblr, but it's also a little hit or miss, especially with new users. (I had no clue how to "tag" properly when I started, believe you me).

There's a solid foundation of readers here, so that makes it a good place to get your feet under you without being on TikTo-- I mean Wattpad.

I'm not going to say much here, because let's be fair, Ao3 was BUILT for visibility. There's no algorithm and the tagging system is robust and customizable. Searching is easy - as long as writers are decent with their tagging, and it's not too hard to find what you want, fluffy or otherwise.

-:- Tagging -:-

Wattpad: 4/10 Tumblr: 7/10 Ao3: 9/10

I've touched on this already in the other sections. Wattpad has a lot of restrictions on its tagging system, and aside from using it to "rank" stories, I'm not entirely sure what else it does. I really don't think it comes into play with searching - key words pull from titles, user names, and summaries at the minimum.

Tumblr tagging is a bless - for the most part. The site deems some words "problematic" and doesn't let you search them, which is poor practice because it doesn't differentiate smut from sex ed. (Personally, not that I want it to block anything on my behalf. If I type it Tumblr, I mean to look for it.) Fortunately, as stated, you can use external search engines to get around this.

Ao3 has probably the most robust, and most customizable tagging system of all three. This is great, as long as you know what you're doing, and terribly confusing if you don't. There's primers out there for tagging in Ao3 and other general "good to know" type things, but it's not intuitive. You really do need the primers.

And Ao3 limits neither content nor tags, so take care when searching, and use the omission functionality if you need to - Ao3 won't hold back unless you tell it.

-:- Searching -:-

Wattpad: 6/10 Tumblr: 6/10 Ao3: 10/10

Smash visibility and tagging together and you get search ratings. Wattpad can be hit or miss because of the Tikto- er - algorithm, my best advice is don't be afraid of the results on page 2 and beyond. As much as it tries to "rate" works, rating is just too subjective. You're going to have to dig, just like you do on Tumblr and Ao3.

Having fan fic reader connections is really your best bet when searching, but slugging through the proverbial trenches yields gems too - and one man's quartz is another man's diamond, so I'm not putting any writing down when I say this - what we're looking for varies, and what's out there is multitudinous and variable.

Ao3 is your best place place for good hunting - it's literally built around it. The only hangups are the limitations of what an author puts in for tags vs what you think to search. Differences in how we perceive some words regionally can limit what bounces back - and sometimes a writer might not think of the word in the first place to add it.

-:- Cost -:-

Wattpad: 3 or 9/10 Tumblr: 10/10 Ao3: 10/10

Wattpad has ads - on the mobile app. You can pay for some stuff on the desktop too, but it's not in your face there like it tends to be on the mobile app. Still, you can use it for free.

Tumblr and Ao3 both request money and offer stuff in exchange for money. Sites need money to run, so it makes sense. Neither locks functionality behind cost (neither does Wattpad, not even on the mobile app), but it's easier to ignore ads on Tumblr than Wattpad's app (and no ads on desktop at all for Wattpad >.> just fyi).

-:- Security & Visibility -:-

Wattpad: ??? Tumblr: ??? Ao3: ???

What's important about security and visibility changes from person to person and I'm not really sure how to rate them numerically.

Tumblr and Ao3 let you make your works private - member or password access only, so there's a layer of visibility control with these platforms that does NOT exist on Wattpad.

Ao3 let's people download works to read offline. Technically you can copy/paste with Tumblr and do this as well. Wattpad does not allow this - you cannot download or copy/paste a work from Wattpad (you can copy/paste when in edit mode on things you own on WP, but readers cannot).

You don't need an account to interact with Ao3 and Tumblr - I *think* you do for Wattpad, but all three are free sign ups - Ao3 is just by invitation (when did that start, btw? I signed up years ago and missed that change).

Which is best, is up to you.

-:- Functionality -:-

Wattpad: 8/10 Tumblr: 7/10 Ao3: 10/10

Let me start by saying that Tumblr's functionality for Short Form Fiction is easily 10/10 - the search limitations notwithstanding. Tumblr's functionality for LONG Form Fiction can be a real pain in the ass, hence the 7/10 overall. Linking posts is a manual nightmare, and sometimes breaks between mobile and desktop for no reason.

Wattpad's limitations on some styles of formatting and linking aside, it does have an easy to use update process, and if there's a limit to how many words can be in a chapter, I haven't seen it, or heard of it.

Wattpad's mature settings are also more functional than Tumblr's, leaving the onus of if the reader is old enough on the reader by the words of their own ToS (I still block minors, personally, since you can see who votes and comments.) They do have stricter limitations, regarding "dark" content, and there is by no means any threat to be levied against minors allowed. Shonen levels of violence, sure, but you're not posting Juno the novel on the site without some issues.

All three sites - Wattpad most recently - have blocking functionality. Wattpad's recent changes allow for deleting comments as well as blocking users, which can be a cathartic ability to have.

One thing Wattpad and Tumblr have that I'd LOVE to see on Ao3 (and if it has it I've missed it) is the ability to schedule your posts and updates. Wattpad added this recently - it's only functional on the desktop, but it works.

For those of us who can write 10k words one day, and none the next two days, it's useful for spreading out your posts. Plus there's just something nice about being able to create a backlog of content, especially if you post on a schedule.

-:- Vibe -:-

No rankings, we die like blorbos.

One of the best things - to me - about Wattpad is a paragraph-by-paragraph ability to comment. Wattpad's readers have a similar vibe as Tumblr's readers - and I mean this affectionately.

You're all GREMLINS.

It gives me life and I love it.

Assholes exist everywhere, but my general vibe of who has the most goes: Wattpad Tumblr Ao3

Maybe some of you aren't assholes, you just don't think about how your comments can be taken before you post.

Ao3 gives me the most Long Form Comments I get out of anywhere else, and I love them. Please, PLEASE, gush to me about what you loved. Feel free to toss in what you didn't vibe with - as long as you're not cruel about it, I can take it. I can't possibly write something everyone perceives flawlessly.

I post to all three, because I like the combined experience I get from them. Ao3 feeds me in ways Wattpad and Tumblr can't, and honestly you can exchange all three of those entirely.

Ao3 feels like I'm walking down the street perusing sex toy shops and someone stops me and goes "Oh I read your story and really liked it, please keep up the good work!" (sometimes maybe they throw a drink in my face.)

Tumblr feels like I'm at a rave with 500 other people and there's 50 blorbos people are doing body shots off of and we're all having fun - and occasionally some asshole comes in, but they're handled pretty quick.

Wattpad's like... being at a Barnes and Noble having coffee in the cafe that's inside the store, and there's a BDSM class being taught in the manga section that's upstairs, and sometimes people take the escalator up and right back down again cause oops.

That's my breakdown - I hope it's helped you, or at least made you laugh a little. Good luck out there, where ever, however, and whenever you post, I hope you find the words you're looking for.

(I do want to add that Wattpad does, as mentioned, have a bit of a TikTok vibe. If you don't vibe TikTok you're not gonna vibe Wattpad, flaws and all).

#quin muses #fan fiction #wattpad #ao3 writer #ao3 #tumblr writers #writers of tumblr #platforms for writing

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writerscafehub · 4 months

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MEET THE BARISTA: Jen

@jen-with-a-pen

1. From one to five stars, how would you rate your writing? (No downplaying yourself!)

I would honestly rate my writing a solid 3½. I know that I have lots of room for improvement and growth– I've even seen growth from fic to fic or chapter to chapter and it makes me really proud to see how far I've come.

2. What do you think makes your writing stand out from other works?

Personally, I think that my setting/world-building and “set direction” helps me stand out. In college I did screenwriting for a bit and that's how I kinda do my rough drafts, writing them in present tense and making sure I’m showing and not just telling. Also making sure my OCs or characters have special awareness of things and people around them.

3. Are there any writers that inspire you?

SO MANY TO EVEN NAME GOOD LORD. When I was initially invited into discord servers, I was fangirling in my apartment with my cat over basically being in the same room as some of (what I consider to be) the best and biggest writers of the fandom that I had been reading for months prior. There are so many mutuals and people who inspire me, too many to name specifically, but I will say that Hope (aka pilotisms/whirlybirbs) is the one whose works really gave me the courage and motivation to start writing in the fandom for the first time. IWe’ve never talked, but I hope she knows I think about Vacant Mirrors religiously to this day.

4. What’s the fic you’re most proud of?

It’s so hard picking between your children! I think it’s a close tie with FOXHUNT and FILTHY, IMPETUOUS SOULS but the latter probably takes the top spot atm. It’s been so well received, even more so than I could’ve ever imagined. I almost scrapped the entire thing and I’m so glad I decided against it.

5. Which character(s) do you find easiest to write and which do you find most difficult to write?

Bucky and Steve both come easiest to me. Finding a good flow for either of them depends on my mood and muse, but I gravitate towards one or the other 99% of the time. I'm terms of difficulties, trying to write OFCs or minor/background OCs is harder for me since they don’t have a “format” like pre-established characters do.

6. Who or what do you find yourself writing about most?

Bucky. Bucky has always been my muse since Day 1 and most of my little notes or WIPs involve him in some way. Also writing settings in college or around college is a pattern I’ve noticed that, although I will never give up, I have been trying to do different time periods and not involve school since I’ve been out of it for a good two years at this point.

7. Tell us about a WIP you’re excited about!

I've had this specific WIP idea/concept going on 2-3 years now and it's coming together… albeit incredibly fucking slowly. It takes place within the 6-9 months between Endgame and TFATWS and involves a lot of angst, healing, and melancholy. I've been including details from the Falcon and Winter Soldier comics along with Bucky’s healing journey through grief and PTSD, amongst other things. It's been in the works for too long, so who knows if it'll see the light of day?

8. First fandom you ever wrote for?

One Direction. I was 11 and had unrestricted Internet access. I was unstoppable. (If anyone was on Miss Literati you’re a real one.)

9. Any guilty pleasure trope(s)?

Omegaverse, hands down. Also poly fics (stucky x reader, my beloved.)

10. A trope you’ll never, ever write for.

I cannot for the love of God do pregnancies, time travel, or fantasy. Just doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.

11. Wildest fic you’ve ever written?

Probably the first time I wrote smut, which was my Ranch Hand!Bucky fic, Impressions on the Inside of Your Thigh. I wouldn’t necessarily call it wild, but to me it was/is!

12. Favorite pairing to write for? (platonic or romantic!)

Honestly? Stucky. There's something about the endless possibilities of their dynamic that makes lil ol bisexual me’s heart swell with happiness. The best thing is, they’re so versatile; you can have them be platonic or romantic and still bring out their unconditional love for one another.

13. Do you listen to anything while you write?

If I really need to get into the mood of the specific story, then yes. Otherwise, I'll either have a Twitch VOD on for background noise or just put noise-canceling headphones on and zone in on the quiet.

14. One-shots or multi-chaptered works?

One shots!

15. Have you ever daydreamed about side adventures/spin-offs from your fic? Tell us about them!

Literally every time I work on one. I’ve thought about one for Chains Around My Feet where it’s like a prologue leading up to the events in Chains, but it felt more appropriate to leave it as a one shot. FILTH, IMPETUOUS SOULS also gets a daydream sometimes about how their dynamic might be back at home base, the aftermath of the fic’s events, that sort of thing.

16. Is there anything you’ve wanted to write, but you’ve been too scared to try?

Omegaverse. I’m slowly working up the courage, but I just don’t feel like I’m ready yet. There’s also another WIP that I had started for Whumptober 2023, but it was just too intense that I scared myself out of finishing it and posting it. HTP is definitely not for the weak of heart and mind.

17. What’s the nicest comment you’ve ever received?

There are legit so so many lovely ones, but I think one that stands out at the moment was when I wrote the weight and someone said something among the lines of “I don’t really read Stucky a lot but this just convinced me to read more” and that felt like such an accomplishment to me.

18. Have you ever gone outside of your comfort zone for a fic? How did it turn out?

Chains Around My Feet was my first Whumptober work and was definitely something I had never done before. I actually was pretty impressed with myself on how well (in my own opinion) I was able to write horror/whump with a Dead Dove ending. Pretty proud of it still.

19. Tooth-rotting fluff or merciless angst?

Merciless Angst!

20. Do you have any OCs? Tell us about them!

Not that I can really think of. If an OC counts as an x reader? Then the Reader I came up with for my years-long WIP.

21. If you could enter the universe of any one of your fics, which would it be and why?

Honeysuckle, hands down. Living and working in Avengers Tower, adventuring in NYC, enjoying the sunsets, all while doing it with the Bucky Barnes? Yes. Fucking. Please.

22. Is there anything you wish your audience knew about your writing or writing process?

When I write, the scenes play out in my head like a literal movie. I see it as scripting everything out and then running through and editing scenes, and then when everything is done, it plays out like a fully fleshed out film. It’s both a blessing yet a curse, but it’s so integral to my process.

23. Copy and paste an excerpt you’re particularly fond of.

From FILTHY, IMPETUOUS SOULS:

He scoffed a laugh. “You weren’t exactly on my list of things t’do.”

“Well I hope I’m a top priority, now.”

“Number fuckin’ one.”

24. Ramble about any fic-related thing you want!

I wish I could stop time and just sit down for a week and get my WIPs started and edited and DONE. I’m entering my busy travel season for work and don’t have nearly as much time and energy as I did like a month or two ago. I miss it. I miss my muse, I miss being able to sit down and spend time fleshing out all these ideas in my head. The other side of it is lack of engagement (mutuals you’re okay i promise) and lack of feedback. Like yeah, kudos and likes are okay, but whenever I get a reblog– one that isn’t from a minor or bot account– I get so happy. When I get a comment, it’s like striking gold. I just wish that the passive consumption and aggressive demand for our work would die down and readers would take the time to even share our stuff. It’s disheartening to see your favorite authors cease writing because what’s the point anymore, ya know? Anyways, SUPPORT YOUR WRITERS!

#★jen★

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mitziholder · 5 months

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I was catching the perfectionism vibes, it's shame if it hinders your progress. Your characters and style seem so cool so I wanted to probe. Comics really are a marathon to create. Losing steam is natural and maybe switching up your conception of your project can help. Not trying to pressure you in any way, just hoping to provide some food for thought.

How do you feel about comics as a medium? You mentioned you mostly "skim" comics for inspiration and love Wimmen's Comix but is it a medium you feel very connected to in general and for your story idea?

I've seen multiple webcomic artists unfortunately struggle with the labor needed for drawing panels and incorporating prose along with art and regular comic panels to maintain progress. If you are more into writing than drawing, maybe incorporating prose along with comics/art is an option you'd be interested in. Don't have the best examples but thinking of Homestuck's long script-format convos that follow panels. And for a comic that later incorporated prose, the webcomic Paranatural went from all comic panels to mixing prose and art. I'll be honest that I stopped reading Paranatural as a teen before the shift so I can't speak to its writing/art quality.

“skimming” was a little disingenuous. I have read a lot of comics, but very rarely have I felt that they fully utilized the affordances of the medium. the reasons for this vary; comics are plagued by many issues deriving from the fact that they were, at one point, both extremely popular and cheap (low-brow) - kneecapped by the CCA and warped into something stupid and trivial for children. even today, that perception remains. I would say the majority of people aren’t capable of recognizing comics as a mature medium. lots of comic writers have a chip on their shoulder about this… particularly Alan Moore.

I bring him up because Watchmen was one of the first pieces of media that really opened my eyes as to what comics were capable of as a graphic medium; people regularly recognize the visual artistry of film, the (often) invisible work done in blocking, cinematography, effects, and editing that makes movies feel like art. comics should be art. every frame should be a painting. panels should fit together into a larger picture composed with thought and care. Dan Gibbons did so - with regard not only for how panels fit next to each other but also for how they fit within the page and the page within the chapter and so on… rich with detail, of equal weight to the dialogue in conveying narrative and thematic meaning. it amazed me because of how little the art actually matters in so many comics, only there by obligation (because without art it would no longer be a comic). why is this? I don’t know. profit? but you see it in indie comics, too. that part confuses me. why would you make something if you don’t want it to be good? what’s the point?

anyway, I found that the story I wanted to tell would not fit within the bounds of a stage play. it has continually resisted (with some notoriety on this blog) my attempts to fit it into prose. the dialogue is what moves it, and with my sort of shaky aptitude for art and love of the medium’s potential, I felt that making it a comic was the natural choice. I don’t particularly enjoy the process of drawing, but without art I felt something was missing - a void that couldn’t be filled by anything else. I never wanted it to give the impression that the art was done by rote, incidental/inconsequential, a pure and thoughtless representation of the dialogue… but that is sort of what it has to be at this point. I wish that integrating the visual half came more naturally to me, but I’ve accepted that it’s a skill I’m going to have to hone with much practice. it’s something I’ve struggled with quite a bit as someone who is borderline aphantasic. very little of the art that I make comes directly from my brain. it is not intuitive to me at all. I am so reliant on references, have no imagination, am very rarely struck with the idea for a bit of visual humor or detail that adds meaning rather than merely visualizing the existing script - the words. I am obsessed with words, clearly. meaning and rhythm and punctuation. I’m a word person. I want to be an art person. I want so baaaadly for my work to be good. I try so hard.

I’m often tempted to throw in the towel and admit that my brain doesn’t work that way - that I’m aiming too high, stubbornly set on something I can never really have - not to an extent that I’m satisfied with. but if I gave in to that feeling, I would never finish anything. I feel like once I am done with my classes and my living situation is more stable, I’ll be sort of okay - or at least more consistent - when it comes to the art stuff... worst-case scenario, I cave and go the homestuck route (which is not something I thought I’d ever say). I don’t know. we’ll have to see. once this semester is over...😮‍💨

#ask #by the way thank you for the extremely thoughtful ask :)

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cuddlytogas · 1 year

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GOOD OMENS 2 SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT!! spewed out right after binging last night and then added to today. I'm mostly gonna ramble about structure rather than content, but the last few bits get quite spoilery

before that, though, one other thought: I DO hope the power of fandom now will mean that we'll get an influx of people listening to Cabin Pressure and JFSP and Double Acts and all that good stuff!!! John Finnemore is such an incredible writer and comedian, and I know the "following fandom brain into a rabbithole of someone's previous work" is a lot more common for actors than writers, but. one can dream!!!!!!! knowing Finnemore was a co-writer was what reassured me that the new season wasn't going to be an unnecessary sequel, he's so fucking good, and in conclusion ---

okay onto the s2 thoughts

obviously I'm, like. insane now. like I'm gonna shatter into a million pieces and also be sick. I have LOST my MIND. and it WAS good!!!

but also

I thought the pacing wasn't nearly as good as s1? obvs s1 had the ticking clock element, which is hard to recreate without just having another ticking clock, but especially some of the flashbacks tended to linger a smidge too long, and you could tell some of them were written by other writers - the "minisodes" thing I think didn't HELP. obviously I don't think this was a MAJOR problem, and I'll want a rewatch when i feel less Fully Insane to judge properly, but even ending aside, I feel like it didn't have quite the same structural/pacing qualities that made s1 so watchable

I thought the extension of the preexisting 1941 flashback felt... a bit hack-y? (it also went on too long tbh.) the reason those worked so well in s1 was because they were these little snippets, extending it (again, especially to the length that they did) was a little... hm. not, like, a cardinal sin, and it might just be a taste thing, but. again, the "minisodes written by other writers" thing didn't help.

and I'm REALLY sad it was released all at once!! with all the mystery elements, I would've loved a week to week format - even two episodes a week - to really digest all the clues, to sit and speculate and process each reveal/development! I just read that Neil Gaiman wanted that too, so it's extra hurtful. it would've been such a satisfying way to consume the show, but alas, Binge Culture must prevail, I guess :\

finally... I might be genuinely disappointed by the ending? I mean, the religious trauma is Strong With This One, and it'll depend on what they do with s3 (I'm not even going to humour the idea of no s3), but just... okay, real spoilers from here

it felt like Aziraphale really backslided?? like, wasn't the whole point of s1 the learning of "heaven and hell are both a bit shit and we're on our own side"? I understand why the final choice was compelling, both to him and the audience, but even across the season - and especially taking both seasons' flashbacks into account - he really sort of pinged back and forth between learning the lesson and going right back into denial about it, in a way that started to feel less like a character flaw and more like a cheat to keep the drama going. obvs his final choice was DEVASTATING, but also I couldn't stop thinking that Aziraphale... knows better??? not just "he should know better, how heartbreaking", but haven't we SEEN that he KNOWS BETTER?? it felt... inconsistent? again, as a writing choice rather than a character thing

like, I've slept on this thought now and calmed down a little about it, obviously I'm a bit biased by how also extremely painful that whole last scene was to watch, but - thing it, it's not even the decision itself that sits so formally wrong with me! the "I could fix things if I were in power" self-delusion is a very believable and narratively compelling (READ: HEARTBREAKING) move, as is him believing "if Crowley were an angel and I fixed everything then we could be safe and together and everything would be fine"!

but specifically the "but heaven are the good guys" - that gets me! like, after everything?? you really still believe that?? I thought it was obvious you learnt your lesson?? something something, "how can someone so smart be SO stupid?" - except we already did that bit in s1!! ahhh I dunno, it just rings a bit too much of the kind of undoing character development and recycling drama that I reeaaaally don't like :\

like, just. the pure disbelief in crowley's face - "tell me you said no" - like, yeah. and not just in a character sympathy way, but - come on, Aziraphale!! we've been through this so many times now!!!

again, this will also all rest on how it's handled in s3. and I have some faith! s2 actually bringing up crowley's "I was there when you tried to destroy Aziraphale, I saw your face when you told him to shut up and die" was revelatory, I loved that they actually made reference to it. and the writers are good! this isn't going to be a wwdits situation, I think we're safe in that. but s2 definitely had a few more plotty/pacing flaws, and that's just SUCH a huge betrayal - that whole ending was so massive - I have a lot of gay fear about how it'll all be resolved.

or, I dunno. maybe I'm just still too sad to think straight.

#Good Omens #Good Omens season 2 spoilers #spoilers #Good Omens spoilers #GoodOmenss2spoilers #GO2 #GO2 spoilers #pointless post is pointless #okay i think i'm done #just needed to throw some thoughts into the void

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minustwofingers · 1 year

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Neil did say he wouldn't do a story that goes from enemies to friends concerning Ellie and Abby. Concerning the Abby being gay, I haven't seen anything from the writers that strictly says Abby is straight, but at the same time going from what I have seen in my respective playthroughs leads me to currently believe she isn't. If you do end up attempting to write them as a pairing, to stay true to both characters, sparing Joel and Jesse, etc and not go from canon would help with that because knowing Ellie, if Abby kills Joel especially in front of her and then they start dating, it would go against Ellie's character and it wouldn't be an accurate depiction of her. Then on another level it could easily delve into a toxic relationship if canon events transpire and they get together. I agree with the posts I have seen recently about toxic relationships shouldn't be glorified. I escaped a toxic relationship and when I see those stories I scroll away from them and they aren't appealing at all in more ways than one.

hi again anon! first of all, before i respond to this, i want to say thanks for taking the time to type out a thoughtful response :)

to address what you've sent in an (semi) organized format since these are some really good points (also so sorry for the ramble...i have a lot of thoughts on this...)

a lukewarm defense of ellie x abby/enemies to lovers as a whole

straight abby

so to clarify what i was saying in the other post, i'm not disagreeing that abby could be straight/that you have good reason to believe that she's straight in canon. what i was saying in response to this was that if you're totally convinced that abby is straight, then that's great, i'm just not really sold on the idea that portraying her as queer betrays her characterization, since her sexuality + romantic life aren't a focal point of the games. (please note that i'm writing this under the assumption that your point is that writing a queer abby is synonymous to an ooc abby, which i really heavily disagree with. if this is just you saying that your personal characterization of abby is that she's straight and that you can't bring yourself to imagine her in a relationship with another woman, then that's a totally different thing and imo totally valid!)

neil's take

this is my own personal take on fanwork and fanfiction, but i don't really take this as an indicator that the pairing shouldn't be written for. i personally wouldn't want to see ellie x abby in the next part, because to be executed well it would require the bulk of the plot.

when toxic pairings are glorified

first things first, i'm sorry you also had a bad experience! i've had my share of toxic relationships too and i'm glad we're on the same page about glorifying toxic relationships.

however, i don't use my fanfiction to moralize. there's a rather big difference between glorification and depiction, and i think it's my reader's responsibility to know where the line is. there's also, imo, a big difference between fanfiction that has some morally grey elements and flawed characters and fanfiction that's self-insert and makes your love interest an abusive asshole while still maintaining a joking/positive tone.

there's also a significant difference between pairings and self-insert, too. self-insert implies a sort of escapism, and it's sort of fucked up when the escapism being sought out includes toxicity. pairings are different people and don't have that same level of reader relation.

this all makes it sound like i'm going to purposefully write a toxic, shitty, unhealthy ellie x abby fic. which is not the case and leads me to my next point...

why i would write ellie x abby after joel's death: a short treatise on why i disrespect canon for sport

i have a lot to say about this one so i'll split this up into subsections

exhibit a: characterizations are sort of flexible

i say this with a caveat, because sometimes it's so clear when you pick up a piece of fic that a writer has no fucking clue what's going on and doesn't know how to write a character. but some of the best fanfictions i've read have taken a pairing i'd never see coming and would ordinarily disagree with and turned it into something insane, because odd pairings and circumstances that seem otherwise impossible require you to dig into what's left of a character after the most obvious character traits. on the surface, of course ellie would never be compatible with abby. but what about below that? that's something that you can only find out by writing it with your own personal interpretation of the characters.

exhibit b: genuine enemies to lovers is by definition a little iffy at first

real enemies to lovers has really gotten watered down lately, and i think that part of the problem is that so much fic is tagged as enemies to lovers when it's really just surface level tension that's resolved 1k words in (i myself am guilty of this, but i think it's important to point out anyway). it's supposed to feel impossible at first! they shouldn't start out with the characters making eyes at each other and by describing how crazy the sexual tension is in the air from the moment they meet, because that makes the payoff so much less rewarding. which leads me to my next point:

exhibit c: stirring the pot is fun

this is the reason why any fic i write for them would be set at least after joel's death and likely after seattle. if those events hadn't happened, it just wouldn't be a very interesting story. the challenge as the writer is to figure out how to get these two characters who have both immeasurably hurt the other person into a situation where, while still honoring their characteristics, they manage to adapt and see each other in a different light. that's why i like this pairing—not because i was picking up on mad chemistry between them and just want them to bang. from what i know about them, i feel like the potential for genuine character exploration/growth is crazy.

tldr: i see what you're saying! but the reasons you don't like the pairing are actually sort of the same reasons why i personally do...which is kind of an odd impasse to be at lol. anyway thank you so much for sending this in!!

#dee overshares #im so sorry for the novel #i just have a lot of feelings about this one #can u tell im currently unemployed #really dont expect anyone to read this #but this did help me solidify my interest in ellie x abby LMAO

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hideyseek · 2 years

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12.15.2022

hmm started talking to myself about the writing process during my lunch break so i wanted to jot some ideas down while they're fresh. lots of fic talk below the cut, mostly about reunion!fic, which i'm writing for the kazetsuyo january fandom event.

i'm definitely worried about my ability to produce all of the writing i want to / need to / am promised to produce by the end of this year! mostly i am worried about reunion!fic, which i'm writing for kazeweek 2023! and also i am juggling my secret saito fic. i've never had two writing projects w/ deadlines in the same overlapping space (bc never been active in two fandoms at once) however, i am reminding myself that: 1. i am a much faster writer than i was two years ago! 2. it will be fine!!!!! (can u tell i simply did not have a second thing but wanted to commit to this list format lol)

here are the things i'm not too sure about:

what will the revision process look like? i don't really remember what it was like to thoroughly revise a piece of writing because the last time i did that was ... like jul/aug of 2020 which is now 2+ years in the past

i really want to make sure i'm making interesting narrative choices with what happens in reunion!fic, and part of that is just: i want to make sure i'm not writing the same thing that has been written four million times already! i've done a fair amount of trawling through ao3 reading things tagged "reunion" or "10 years later" or other similar tags, but i'm just not particularly good at this kind of thematic story pattern-matching or narrative elements synthesis. there are a few fics about group reunions (well, one in particular) that i have read and LOVED, so at some point in the revision process i might reread and try to poke at what makes me love them so much.

however!!!!! i will be saved by tvtropes! i did a really quick search this morning before work, and there are a couple pages about reunion stories that i'll take a look at that can hopefully help me pull back and take a more bird's eye view of the story and where it's going.

i don't remember at what point i used to like, split off and just start rewriting the whole fic essentially from scratch in a clean doc. no idea how i used to do that, the thought of having to do this for reunion!fic is ... hugely intimidating and i really don't want to. i'll need to come up with some strategies for how i can do that same revision work but ... not in that one large chunk, but i have ideas. in terms of at what point to move to a new doc ... not sure! i would love to decide beforehand but i don't actually think that's necessary. oh -- no i just remembered: i moved stuff when i was going to start working on it. so after i piece together the down draft, i'll copy the whole thing into a new doc and work off that for my first round of revisions, and then send that copy to betas, and then create a THIRD doc with the raw content of the second draft to work on as i go through beta comments. this is fully just: i love archiving things sooooo much. but hey! it'll work, it'll separate things into pretty distinct stages. i think it will work fine, and i can always reflect and revise the process afterward.

anyway! i was thinking through the strategies that got me to the final draft of a to b (or really, anything else i've finished before) and, i think they are:

revising in chunks -- one thing i did especially close to the final draft was to pull out the scene i was editing and rework it in a separate document and then paste it back into the "main" document. i think this will also serve me well with reunion!fic. i've noticed that i tend to get overwhelmed when faced with large chunks (more than a couple hundred words) of writing to either produce or "make good" (a task that is unfortunately completely distinct in my mind form the actionable task of revision). i'm hoping that deliberately

revision wishlist -- this is not something i did when writing a to b but i've seen some writers on here talk about it, and it appeals to the part of me that works best given essentially, a checklist of goals to work through systematically. i think once i've got my rough / down draft completely (likely today, mainly pulling from my organizing doc of previous draft material and my drafting ("outlining" lol) doc that i've been putting tiny scenes into in the last week), i'll read through it and make notes of anything that i notice that is ... not what i'm looking for in the final draft. i might need to do this a few times, with varying levels of verbally guiding myself, some things i want to check are: pacing, haiji's emotional arc (does it exist?), whether the tension is being sustained/raised through scenes or if it diffuses in places i don't mean for it to, consistent characterization (or at least, believably older!haiji characterization, my number one nemesis aha).

i suspect that having a poetic or musical emotional "anchor" for the fic will help a lot, that definitely helped guide some smaller tone/mood (sorry to my english teachers i kinda don't know the difference) decisions for a to b. however ... this time i do not have a convenient buddy to send me music, and i am simply: not very skilled at mentally linking these things. well ... i also thought about going through some web weavings on here for the vibe and then seeking out the full texts. or i'll just go through my tag for reunion!fic and hope that past!me did my proper duty haha.

lol ok. cool. i am very excited!!! but also very nervous!!!

#godddd i cannot believe i have to GO BACK TO WORK instead of just... working on my little fanfictions!!! horrible #hidey speaks #hidey talks fic #do i have any tags for this lol. here it is i guess

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glimmeringtwilight · 2 years

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Hi I was wondering is there any character's you don't write for in your fandoms? ( also glad to see your back , hope your doing ok !💜)

Good question!

So, nothing comes to mind for the general broad list of fandoms except for MHA (I won't write for Eri nor Mineta... I think most people can understand why).

I'm honestly kinda impassive on most of the characters that aren't teachers/pro heros/villains anyway, but I can't think of any others I wouldn't write atm. I'm also incredibly behind on the plot and learn most of it through word of mouth, and given that most of the blogs I follow now are Genshin oriented... I don't get much of that anymore either lol.

And as for Genshin, I won't write for any of the children (Diona, Klee, Qiqi, etc). They might appear in fics as like... background characters but they'll never be the focus and there won't be anything more than platonic/familial relationships for them.

There's a few characters like Xiangling, Xingqiu, Chongyun, Bennett, Razor, Fischl, Barbara, and Collei that I won't write for either. Personally, I don't have a problem with aging up these characters, and the ages of almost all the characters are purposefully vague in Genshin so I don't see any point in condemning people if they write for these characters. I just won't write for them because I just can't see them in any non-platonic light.

This doesn't mean I dislike any of the characters listed btw! Fischl is actually one of my favorite characters and my main on my EU account. I just wouldn't feel comfortable writing for her as anything more than like... a background character.

And tyvm! I'm glad to be back <3 I was honestly surprised I still had so many followers after like two years of nothingness JHFHJFHJG Hopefully the ones that stuck around like genshin, but I never hold it against anyone if they don't like my current content and move on. Better they go in peace than not ^^

#I'm only really including MHA and genshin bc I'm likely to drift back to MHA eventually #there's characters for overwatch and undertale that i also won't write for BUT i'm not sure if i'll ever write for those fandoms (again)#so it seems kinda like a moot point to make this post longer than it is including those #if I change my mind and decide i'll write for those fandoms i'll maybe make a list of characters i won't write for in my rules #currently the ''full'' list of fandoms is included there so people know they can talk to me about certain fandoms and I won't be like #''what is that.''#my only active fandom is genshin atm. BUT that doesn't mean I'll never return to multifandom writing #it'll just... be a while. trying to write what /I/ want to write so I don't go on another hiatus #i think the format i've seen other writers doing is also helping a lot too #where people can send in suggestions/ask for stuff but they don't force themselves to write for it #since coming back like 70% of what i've written I think has just been stuff i started on my own #it also helps i finally have like a discord with other writers where i can brainstorm freely about dark content stuff #ngl without that i would have likely lost steam by now i think qwq. so it's really nice #a lot of them are also super sweet people #anyway #gt rambles #asks #not writing #i'll stop chattering in the tags LMAO #also. i'm not saying all of those characters are minors bc i don't honestly. know their actual ages #again. genshin is purposefully vague about a lot of character's ages and i've seen conflicting information on many of them #some say xingqiu is 18. some say 16 #i don't really know honestly and i'm just not very interested in writing for him regardless.

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lovebecomeshim · 3 years

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hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?

Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.

*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!

This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.

I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)

The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.

And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.

(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)

The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.

First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.

The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.

(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)

They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.

(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)

Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)

Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.

Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.

Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—

And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.

Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.

There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:

There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.

Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).

Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.

Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.

The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.

And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.

tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.

So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.

youtube

#zutara #atla #zutara rant #like really the way the canon relationships were written throughout s3 #it would’ve been more believable for zutara to happen #or at least be hinted at #all of the major issues presented in those relationship were dug up extensively and then... never resolved #and then they just slapped some kisses on a screen and said ‘there all better’#and we just kinda had to say ‘oh ok guess it’s all better then’#this got long I’m sorry #I wrote it all out and then tumblr ate 2/3 of it #which is why it took so long #and what I’ve written now doesn’t even match what I had before #because there’s too much to say about why I love zutara #and the stuff I left out the first time is what came out this time #rip to my original thoughts but this post is different #anyway that’s why this took so long #and I should’ve just made a PowerPoint...#I can do that too if you’d rather not read all of this lol #I won’t be offended #this is incoherent #Alia rambles uselessly #also hoping this doesn’t end up in any wrong tags because I don’t wanna step on toes lol #it’s not anti!! it’s just critical #in a compare/contrast way #I can pinpoint the moment when I started trying to rewrite my points from memory #because everything gets shorter and more succinct #like... I really said all that??? sounds fake and I don’t remember it anyway so here’s the condensed version #with no!! smooth!!! transitions!!!!#also why am I so lazy with proper grammar over text

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siarven · 3 years

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Hey, you mentioned that you like all those queer hopepunk horror podcasts in some tags and I wanna know: which podcasts are you talking about? Ever since tma ended, I've been looking for a podcast that could fill its place

Hello!! :DDD

So (in true fashion of a Good Memory™) I suddenly forgot Everything, so I enlisted a friend's help! ( @followthatgoose, who has also listened to all of these, some multiple times. I'm still kind of working on them because I hit sudden No More Podcasts™ a while back sadly, and am currently back to audiobooks for the most part. But I'd trust Soren's podcasting taste with my life, sooo :D) So the proper premise-descriptions are mostly provided by them <3

- Hello from the Hallowoods (kind of like how I'd originally hoped Welcome to Night Vale would be! It's a radio broadcast-esque story about queer survivors at the end of the world, really nice mix of following the characters as they live and also their fight against the horrors of the hallowoods. It also has some of the Best Quotes and the narrator has a fantastic voice <3 fantastic vibes overall)

- The Sheridan Tapes (found footage horror (with very nice music and soundscaping), following a detective as he tries to piece together what happened to a missing horror writer. monster of the week type recordings mixed with what is happening 'real time' to characters. a lot of Very Good emotional moments. also very queer)

- The Mistholme Museum (monster of the week format combined with 'real time' moments too, an audio tour guide takes you on a tour of the mistholme museum's exhibits. there are canonically queer characters, though so far it is not as Queer™ as the others. set in australia)

- Kane and Feels (in the words of Soren, "can best be described as a Vibe that is really good to zone out to and just exist in (liminal space my beloved). it's done in a noir style (which is IMPECCABLE) and the main characters are an academic who studies the supernatural, and his ex cop friend who punches the supernatural when it is causing problems. other than having canonically stated queer characters there is also Very Nice queer subtext around the main characters (particularly kane). also the academic is named lucifer kane, i feel like that speaks for itself xD")

- The White Vault (this one isn't as queer sadly, (though it does have Two Gays later on) but it has the most fantastic creepy-horror vibes that kinda feel similar to tma's horror vibes, and it's fairly short and really cool! It's about a multi-national group (the cast being from those nationalities as well, it feels amazingly real in that sense <3) sent to an arctic outpost to repair a broken radio, and then a blizzard keeps them from returning and everything escalates in the most deliciously terrible way. I've binged it two or three times so far >:D It's currently on hiatus but we'll get a fifth (final?) season staring in October!)

- I can always and forever recommend Rusty Quill Gaming as a honorary mention, just because it's partially the same people and it's fantastic and even though it doesn't start out as horror, alex has been knew (that man just can't help himself from putting horror everywhere, it's GREAT). It's a very good time and has made me cry and there's a lot of content to listen to with familiar voices, and I love it a lot even though I'm usually not a ttrpg listener <3

Apart from these I've also heard that Old Gods of Appalachia is good (though I personally didn't like the vibes), I've listened to a big chunk of I Am In Eskew which had some extremely nice episodes and some I didn't vibe with quite as much (it also lacked the queer, if I remember right), and by the same people (and apparently very queer?) The Silt Verses, though I haven't listened to that yet. I think that one has a lot of body horror, from what I've seen, and an aro character, which makes me go very :hypereyes:, but yeah :)

I hope these help!

If anyone wants to add recs, please do!!

Also Soren / @followthatgoose wants to find other people to scream with about the sheridan tapes so if anyone following me has listened to that pls message them xD <3

#podcast #podcast rec #tma related #i hope you end up vibing with one (or more) of these!!! <333 #one day my podcast-brain-cell will return from the war #also I dont know what i am going to do once rqg ends too #how dare they end all rqg shows in the same year??????#i'm once again in s3 of tma and it hurts the me <3 :')

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laceyisnotreading · 2 years

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I've seen other blogs answer this and it's fun so, If you were the head writer of the ACOTAR TV series, what 3 things would you keep from the books & what 3 things would you drastically change even if it angers the fans?

Goodness, I mean. Where do I start?

I've actually made a few videos on it, but I surprisingly have a lot of hope now where I didn't before at the idea of the show. I've come to think of it as an opportunity to fix the things that either didn't work or didn't work well enough in the text, as well as help those who don't read critically to see the text demonstrated in a more black and white format on the screen.

What I would keep:

If Rhysand drugging Feyre isn't portrayed as exactly the assault it was, I'm rioting. Say whatever the fuck you want, make your sympathizer excuses, but unless you've been in namely a party setting where men are trying to roofie either you or your friends, you don't know how terrifying this is, "greater good" be damned. "But she was thankful for it" I don't know a single woman who has been drugged and been grateful for it, get out, goodbye, I won't hear it. This better be accurate as fuck and if it's romanticized I'm going to be pissed.

Let Tamlin be as hot and romantic as the first book/"season" wants you to think he is. It's a romance, after all, and while I know people who have read the books don't want to see him, the story is going to be way more impactful if you get to experience this portrayal with Feyre, and those who didn't read the books (who, by the way, are entirely valid as fans even if they never read the books) deserve to experience it authentically too.

Idk when it happened in the canon timeline but I want Azriel spying on Amren to stay canon and I wanna see it happen onscreen.

What I would change:

Skip to the end of this if you don't wanna read the explanation, I may make a separate post of it later. One of my biggest gripes with ACOMAF is that it really only is development for Feyre, and Rhysand being a relatively static character in terms of development really ruined the experience for me. His entire "arc," or lack thereof, is dependent on making Tamlin look bad when, while Tamlin's treatment of Feyre is obviously unacceptable (I am not a Tamlin sympathizer or supporter, don't get it twisted folks), Rhys's supposed "redemption" should stand on its own. After the shit Rhys himself put Feyre through in book 1, Feyre and the reader both deserve to see Rhysand redeem his own actions instead of having Tamlin's actions and Feyre's vulnerability do it for him. The "mask" bullshit is such a copout; when you are the ruler of an absolute monarchy, you don't get to "play a role." You're either doing bad shit or you're not. You don't gain a reputation for being a brutal, untrustworthy monarch without there being some kind of truth to it because let's not forget; the best lies are adjacent to the truth, and Rhysand of all people knows that. And I won't hear any of this "well Amarantha's reign" because while valid, this Night Court reputation dates back longer than just the last 50 years. I'm really not interested in watching him sit back and essentially just wait for Feyre to decide he's right and good, I'd rather not only watch him prove it, but I'd also rather watch him be wrong, because guess what? This can actually make Feyre's ascension into her position as High Lady more believable. Feyre watching Rhysand make dubious decisions and strategies and calling him out on it strengthens her own credibility as a moral asset to the Night Court on top of forces him into accountability. I want to see him work for it, he has too much power not to. In summary, I want to see some legitimacy to Rhysand's "villain" persona as opposed to him being "good" (basically lean into dark romance Feysand? Sarah never really commits to that and listen if you're gonna try to make me believe this relationship, you can't have one foot in and one foot out the door) so that 1) Feyre can process how she herself changes going forward by setting boundaries not just for her, but for the people of the Night Court to make her position as High Lady actually believable when the time comes, and 2) so that Rhysand gets an actual fucking arc and develops, because a change in her perspective of him has nothing to do with whether or not he's changed. This is exactly why I actually LOVE his portrayal in ACOSF.

Idk that this is much of a change but I want Nesta and Elain to have just shy of equal protagonist screentime as Feyre. The books are first person but the show inherently can't and shouldn't be. I have some ideas for what we could do with their storylines but the world will practically build itself if we get 1) the pov of a human girl in a faerie's world, 2) the pov of a human girl under the influence of glamour in her own world, and 3) the pov of a human girl resistant to the influence of glamour in her own world and getting to observe that magic in secret. It literally writes itself and I'm convinced the books would have not only just been better but would have dragged way less with this as a third person narrative.

I would make the fae a lot more like those of the Folk of the Air series by Holly Black, especially making lower fae more diverse. Actually...is pretty much anyone who isn't traditional High Fae just lower fae? Yeah let's change that. The closest we got to that true faerie vibe in terms of worldbuilding was book 1 and we've kind of lost that ever since we got the Illyrians, they're all just humans who look a little different and have the same social standards. What happened to them not understanding human culture? I don't believe for one single second that the Night Court is any more "cultured" than the rest of Prythian, girl please.

BONUS: I want a majority of the characters to be made canonically queer.

#acotar #acotar tv show #i know you wanted hot takes but my hot takes aren't so much 'i'd change this in canon' as they are 'people interpret this badly' lmao

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heloisedaphnebrightmore · 3 years

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thanks for the kind answer 🥺 i’m such a mood reader too (and weirdly organized also hahah i bet your excel file is so cute)!! i’ll buy something on amazon and be so excited to read it but until it arrives my excitement already faded and im picking up something else u got harbored. i try to keep a monthly order of what i’m gonna read but i don’t always follow haha sometimes a book calls me and i’ve GOT to read it. and i try to alternate genders too like i became obsessed with historical romances during quarantine but so i don’t become creepily invested i shift to some fantasy or my latest: murder mysteries

i have another question though. you’re a writer and i don’t know precisely how seriously you take it other than a hobby but do you ever compare yourself with published authors? like you read something and you think to yourself “i’ll never be that good” (it’s been happening to me a lot)

Hahah yeah my excel file is actually quite messy in the sense that I can't, for the life of me, identify book genres when they are not obvious or when they are rather complex xD But it certainly is helpful to have an excel file :D

I could never follow a monthly order. I literally just pick up whatever feels right :D I've actually heard that a lot of people switch genres too, but honestly, I do it when I feel like it. 5 days ago I was reading Jennifer L. Armentrout's Harbinger series and then I went onto Julia Quinn's Bridgerton series. But before that I was reading fantasy for months and a bit of contemporary romance here and there. I don't really focus on genres. Rather tropes if that makes sense. I mostly check what tropes certain books have and then read according to those. If my mood wants some enemies to lovers, then it gets enemies to lovers :D

To answer your question, Yes and No.

You see, when I read a book, I don't ever focus on "could I ever be that good?", "will I ever be on their level" and the likes of those. I rather focus on things I could use in my writing. Things that could improve me. There are lines that inspire me, there are grammatical concepts that I didn't use and should have when I wrote something. There are scenes that I like in books, but I feel like I could do better, so they give me ideas. Rather than comparing myself, I try to look at things that could help me improve myself such as frequency of dialogues, description of worlds, using appropriate wording and the like.

That is not to say I have never compared myself to authors. Of course, I have. Who haven't?! But I rather do it in a generalised manner. Could I be as good as best selling authors? Possibly no. Only because I prefer the business side of publishing rather than writing. Writing is more of a hobby to me. However, I have also read books that were advertised as these amazing, life-changing fictions and they actually disappointed me. Those made me think that I could do as much or better actually.

So, I'd say that comparing yourself is not really a good thing and not because they are better or not, but simply because writing isn't just about the plot, but also understanding your own characters, building a world, using the right words, editing properly, formatting maybe in unique ways, paying attention to grammar at all times, using tropes that you like not only for the sole purpose of providing what readers want to see and also advertisement. Oh, how many books I've seen advertised to be these brilliant books only to be let down by not even the story line, but the terrible grammar. And English isn't even my first language, so I can't even imagine how it might bother those who's first language is English.

As you can see, there's so much to writing, therefore I don't think it's good to compare yourself. You can, of course, it's inevitable, but rather than looking at it in a negative manner, try (key word, try!) to pick up what you could improve on so that one day you might be indeed as good as those how are now popular published authors.

“Reading is my therapy” masterlist

#Heloise's inbox #books #reading #writing

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ectora · 3 years

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REVIEW 313

took me some time to actually get into that review lmao But i really loved the episode. I know some people will probably have complains about it, but as someone who absolutely loves Abigael, I really liked it. And honestly the fact that abigael was finally included in the main story is not even the reason why. I loved the pacing, it actually felt like Charmed. The stakes, the construction, the format, it was all on point. It was genuinely their best episode alongside 307 (two episodes related to the tomb lmao) and one of their best in the show imo.

I've put it in "hidden" cause it ended up being so long I did not expect that im sorry 😭

SCREEN TIME

Maggie: 29m20s

Macy: 27m36s

Mel: 25m39s

Abigael: 20m17s

Jordan: 10m32s

Harry: 47s

Not gonna lie, I did not miss Harry this episode. Maybe it's just cause I don't like the way they have been writing both him and Macy this season, way too focused on the relationship, but his story does not really interest me. And I enjoy watching Macy interact with other characters a lot more. I think we could have had a little bit more of Jordan as well.

What I liked

where do i even start. I genuinely enjoyed so many things in this episode.

As said earlier, I really enjoyed the structure of the episode, to me it finally really felt like charmed. The way the episode was done was beautiful and I LOVED the trial in a general manner. They're terrible lawyers, but still loved it lmao

Ok hear me out, the fact they had abigael and macy say what the fan had been saying but reversing the roles was actually sent me lmao

I really enjoyed that they balanced the rights and wrongs of abigael. I'm part of the people who think that overall, most of what she did was not that deep tbh, but the episode allowed to have nuances and hold her accountable for things she did while also recognising that she did good things.

Abigael finally interacting with the sisters. To me, that's the sign of good characters tbh, how they can interact with different other leads/mains and such relationships being interesting. Abimel, i'll talk about it a bit later cause i have lots to say. But AbiMacy ? I absolutely always love their scenes, one of the reasons being that I genuinely think they're the two best actresses in the show and you can really feel it when they're on screen. They have easy chemistry and whatever they are doing, they just work. They also had one of the best potential of the show in terms of dynamic and I will never forgive the writers for ruining this, especially because it's in part because of a man. Anyway, their scenes were amazing to watch and I need more. I was especially happy because let's be honest, if Macy has valid reasons to dislike Abigael, they often miss-portrayed that in the show and it often came across as being mostly based on the whole love triangle between Macy Abi and Harry. But this time it really was not and Macy was quite fair, even reaching the conclusion Abi doesn't belong in there - she does not- and I liked that they actually were fair on Macy's dislike and distrust. Then there was AbiMaggie. Honestly, it's not a relationship i expected to enjoy that much but oh god i love them. I loved them in episode 207 and I still do. They just have such a funny dynamic, I can't even explain it correctly but it just work. They're throwing remarks at each other sure but it's almost in a sweet funny way. Abigael calling Maggie 'Legally Brunette" was so funny and cute at the same time.

Talking about Maggie, I really liked her this episode. I love how she reacts in situations where they need a cold head. She takes the lead, she does what needs to be done and she reaches the goal. I really enjoy seeing her taking that role a little bit more. Especially because to me Maggie was always the one with the most nuanced view on the world which I really appreciate. I loved her speech at the end and she grew so much since season 1, she's really so great. The more we advance in the show, the more she shines.

I really liked what happened at the end with the sisters recognising that they are themselves not perfect and are even chaotic. I have a point about being chaotic for later but anyway. Yes the sisters are not perfect. Honestly, they have done questionable things in the past themselves and often are the cataclysm of new things happening. I think it just makes them more interesting and better characters. Black and white can only get so long. Nuanced, imperfect, that's where the complexity lies and what is more interesting imo.

The perfecti really are good characters. I mean their logic was completely f*cked, but they are so entertaining to watch, it's actually great. I like also that they continued that idea that logic without emotion is dangerous. But in some ways tbh, the Perfecti are not even logical. They want to think they are, but their own logic is flawed and like Macy said, completely lacks context.

Finally the power of three and FINALLY, the plot goes forward. Maybe that's another reason I really enjoyed the episode, the fact that it actually had a good flow, it felt like one constructed episode and it actually advanced the story which cannot be said about a lot of the episodes. So I'm happy that happened.

And finally Abimel. I mean, no one can be surprised Abigael has feelings for Mel tbh, girl has not been subtle about it lmao But that declaration was actually cute and their scene at the bar ?? paralleling the one in season 2, it was so sweet. I just love them tbh, and I really think they could have been the ship a lot of us were waiting for in the sapphic community especially.

Abigael's past. Like I loved learning more about her past and her mom. Obviously her traumatic past does not exempt her from her own actions but I do believe it give strong grounds for redemption. it also gives us a lot of insights in her character. Her mom was an absolute monster and what she did to her was terrible. There is no surprise in Abigael's absolute lack of self worth and her unhealthy coping mechanism. Like her mom basically spent her life telling her she was deficient and then punished her for something she had no control on whatsoever. She punished Abigael for her own action and her own liaison with a demon. She probably projected her anger about that relationship on the child that came out of it and it's absolutely horrifying. Like no wonder Abigael is not fond of witches and went into the demon side tbh. Like that's not surprising at all. It also explains why she was so against the idea of witch = good that the sisters keep perpetuating because that's simply not what she experienced. Again, it does not excuse everything she did but I do believe it helps understand the character better and that ultimately, it gives space for a redemption. And again, kuddo to both poppy and the actress who played her mom. First that was great casting and it was really well played.

Remarks

To be honest, I don't really have things I genuinely disliked so I'm more gonna do like a section where i could criticise some of the aspect which to me did not necessarily made sense but were often still funny, and who knows maybe done on purpose. It's gonna be a mix of a little bit of everything.

One of the first thing I was kinda confused on was their use of the term chaos. Because, well, chaos doesn't equate evil. But that's the angle they started taking at the beginning which to me was confusing. It didn't make the episode bad, but the more I think about it, the more I'm like the defence they were going with had nothing to do with the charges 😭 Like, the sisters tried to prove that basically Abigael was a good person. But the charges were that she was chaotic. and by the end of the episode we did reach that kind of point where they said everyone was chaotic and everything - which i liked - but also didn't really match the angle they took the entire episode. Because, I personally never saw Abi as evil. But she is 100% chaotic like that girl is the definition of chaotic and I love her for it. But her doing good or bad is not necessarily what makes her chaotic. Good deeds can be as chaotic as bad ones. For example, Abi binding her own power could be considered as good by some people (it's not really but you see what I mean) but by doing so, she would lose the title of overlord and therefore end the treaty. In that case the war would start and that would definitely be chaotic. If she was to stay overlord however, and control the demon world, which can be seen as bad i guess, she is keeping the war from happening and stopping attacks toward witches and innocents, which is the contrary of chaotic. So yeah, the angle they took did not actually make that much sense cause the two are not the same.

Not gonna lie, bringing Godrik up was so weird to me cause like he tried to kill her first and they all know it, yet she was the one said to try to murder him and I was like ? did we all forgot what happened ? 😭

Some of the things brought by the perfecti - such as her killing those humans or demons - seemed weird because like, the sisters did the same in the past 😭 But also that's part of the whole lack of context aspect I guess.

No they really used Francesca as a witness out of all the people in the world like the woman is a whole child abuser who asked help to the elders, which have been established as like, not good people lmao I know it was part of the whole the perfecti are very selective on the information they actually take into account and they use the information as well as twist them to fir their own narrative but still it came across as weird because that woman was the definition of evil. But that's also what ticked the sisters so well.

Why did they not call Harry to testify was also kinda like ... weird. I mean at the same time I can't really complain but still, it was a bit odd. Also the fact they never thought about showing what was abigael actually doing with Jordan lmao I mean it wouldn't go along with the plot but still.

Ok, that take is subject to controversy and I know it but anyway : to me, Abi stealing Macy's power was ... not that deep. Don't get me wrong, the story was bad. The execution was even worse. In the show itself tho, objectively, as an act, it was not that bad. It actually made a lot of sense for Abigael to take it for herself. Macy wanted to get rid of her demon powers, no one was forcing her. And Abigael actually asked her multiples times if she was sure. Macy definitely had her reasons to do so. But at the end of the day, Abi picking them up when they were gonna disappear in thin air is really not that bad. It's logical. Don't get me wrong I'm glad Macy is getting them back, but I also think there has been a lot of mix up between the actual act of stealing the powers and the way it was done/optics ( I still don't understand how anyone wrote that scene and was like, yeah kneeling is a good idea ??? Like what's wrong with you 😭). But like ultimately, the act itself is not bad. questionable ? sure. Evil ? really not. Like let's be honest here. Abigael never hid who she was (past ep3 obviously). She did not pretend to be an angel, nor that she was a good samaritan. At the end of day, the sisters knew who she was and how she worked. They came to her knowing this. At some point, there is a need to acknowledge that, she was no angel, but they knew that and still went to her. She said it herself, she is used to fight for herself, and she'll sting to protect herself first - which i personally don't really hold again a character. If you go in bed with a scorpion, you can't ignore the fact there is a chance you're gonna get stung. Plus, when Abigael "stung" she also actually still gave them what they wanted/needed. I personally never saw self interest negating a good action. I don't really care if she gets something out of helping. Like at the end of the day, why wouldn't she take them ? In some ways however I do understand why Macy would be mad, she asked for help and she didn't realise Abigael stole them and she doesn't like abigael in the first place so why would she be ok with Abi taking them. That's valid too. But objectively, it was more a she was offended and mad that Abi herself had them more than a it's a terrible thing to do kinda feeling. So like it's a bit of a weird situation because Macy being annoyed and mad is valid but at the same time, it's really not that bad in itself. But overall that story should have never existed in the first place. And certainly not happen like this.

Abimel. I loved it but I also have issues with it. Mostly based on the fact we learned Poppy was leaving the show. And not gonna lie, I cant stop myself from feeling like it was almost a bit .. baity if I dare say. They had basically admitting having feelings for Mel and low key hoping it could lead somewhere when honestly, if she's leaving, they did not need to make it romantic. Because honestly, watching this episode not knowing she would leave ? You'd definitely could think it's happening, especially with all the other hints in the past. They could have made it like more about how Mel was the one giving her a real benefit of the doubt and they had a connexion and she wanted to be worthy of that. It would not be romantic. Especially cause she admitted caring about all sisters so it would have worked. Again, don't get me wrong, I want the most Abimel i can get lmao but also it feels a little weird. It's complicated. 😭

Jordan is definitely coming back, I just wonder what are going to be the circumstances. I completely understand why my boy needed a break. Like their time in the tomb was long. We don't exactly know how time works there but remember, in episode 7 when the sisters were stuck, the normal time was like what ? hours ? while in the tomb it was days for Maggie. So there it was days in normal time so in the tomb ? could potentially feel like weeks, months even. So yeah, give him a break and some time to breath. I know they're dragging this whole Joggie thing but because of Covid i also understand and will let it go. I really like them tho.

Abi has some alcohol problems I feel like should maybe be talked about. Like she uses it as an escape, as a way to numb her feelings. There is a reason it was used to symbolise her submitting herself to the tomb. And her first reaction after leaving the tomb was drinking. When she feels unhinged or vulnerable ? She drinks ? When she lost the title of overlord ? She drank. Alcohol is her escape which is a bit worrying.

Not about the episode but I think it needs to be brought up. I've seen people trying to say they brought up the abuse storyline for abigael out of nowhere and like. Listen I completely understand not trying to give more thoughts to a character you dislike, that's fair enough. But saying that storyline is out of nowhere is just a lie. The only new elements we had here were the details of the abuse she went through. They showed the clip again in the episode, where Abigael talks to Mel about her mom. She rejected her, she made her felt, deficient, wrong. All that is emotional abuse. She said her mom tried to fix her which can easily be thought about physical abuse. Like none of these things were new. To be honest, not a single thing they clarified/established for abigael this episode does not follow up with what was in the show in the past. Her feelings for Mel were honestly rather obvious at this point. Her not wanting TCO to get hurt ? There is literally a scene where Godrik tells her it's her head or the sisters and she never really even thought about throwing the sisters under the bus. She even asked who knew and it's easy to think it's because if no one knew she could put it under the rug. Again, it's fair enough for people to dislike her to not try to put more thoughts into her motivations or scenes in a general manner, but then you can't really say things are out of the blue.

And most importantly, I'm sorry, I don't care if you dislike the character, but if you dismiss the abuse just because of the dislike, that's a problem. What a character goes through in her past does not, in any way, have to change your opinion about them. Whatsoever. However when it comes to issues like child abuse, the bare minimum would be to be respectful of the subject and not say "she deserved it", "should have done more" or just say you don't care cause that changes nothing. Again, it doesn't have to change anyone's opinion at all and it does not excuse behaviours, but man, minimal respect is not that hard.

Highlights

This episode genuinely had such funny moments, i loved it.

« Is this a hard time to admit I failed debate in high school ? » and « could the defendant keep her commentary to herself » competing with each other for the funniest part of the episode. The delivery was perfect on both part. And Abi and Macy interactions are always so good and them bantering more or less seriously all the time is sending me. Macy was just so annoyed with her, i loved it.

« Need something legally brunettes » I said it already but I loved that little scene between AbiMaggie and that line particularly.

Abigael went from saying "I could care less about any of you" to "because I deeply care about her" followed by a whole ass declaration AND admitting she does actually care about all of them. My girl got absolutely played and it was genuinely so funny. Like Abigael was so freaking smug about testifying against herself and she got played so hard, she was SO annoyed it was actually hilarious.

"Every battle I fought, I fought alone" like excuse me while I'll go cry in a corner. Again, Poppy has been absolutely killing her role this season.

"Your arguments are illogical" the perfecti have such audacity like girl have you heard yourself ? 😭 no one is being less logical than you right now.

Lmao when Macy said Abigael belonged into the tomb, Mel was not agreeing 😭 And Maggie was having none of the drama either she just wanted out.

The sisters realising they had to be Abi's character witnesses lmao it was hilarious pleas idc.

Theories

With Poppy Drayton leaving, there are two theories I kinda have. Obviously Abigael is either gonna die or leave. Ngl, I can feel the dying one coming more but well, that brings the two theories.

Abigael would sacrifice herself. Which I don't like but honestly let's be honest, there are 95% chances of that happening. I could see her sacrifice herself for Mel or for the sisters in general. But that's where my abimel issues are coming. I love abimel. I want the most abimel i can have until the end. But Abigael admitting have feelings for Mel just in the purpose of having her sacrifice herself for her and to be 'worth it' ? that's not only a byg trope, it's also lazy.

If she just leave, which wouldn't really make sense to be honest cause why would she just leave, would she give up the title of overlord (why even) or would they bound her powers (i would hate that) ? but anyway, if that's the case, I could actually see her learn Waverly is not actually the one rejecting her. Waverly could very possibly not be the one who communicated with Jordan and the sisters. No one ever saw her, the letters are only signed by her name. It's a bit sus tbh, so nothing stops it from being Francesca actually impersonating her daughter to keep her away from Abigael.

I want to know more about the perfecti. We know they killed charmed ones before, and it doesn't seem like charmed ones existed when they were created ? Maybe the charmed ones were created after they went into the tomb ? I still am not sure about them going into the tomb by themselves tbh. But also they don't seem to be evil in the sense they want power or whatever, more in the fact like they consider themselves perfect and that if someone stands in their way, they'll just get rid of them.

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