#i've been in some toxic fandoms

[transholmes]

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[tricksterlatte]

I've always been fascinated by fandom history, and I know I'm not the only one. It's interesting to see how fans of pop culture can create a culture of their own, and in the modern age of social media and the internet in general, that culture is as widespread as ever. Unfortunately, that also means downsides are becoming bigger as this culture becomes widespread, and it's saddening to watch, maybe even concerning.

I don't discuss these things to be preachy, especially considering how I've fallen into several of these pitfalls before, and have perpetuated some of this behavior in the past. To say otherwise would make me a hypocrite and a liar, and I firmly believe this goes for most people in any fandom. I was just thinking about this recently, and how a lot of the biggest stressors in what should be our stress relief really can be pinned mostly into a few central talking points, which I would love to discuss to know if I'm not just going crazy here

The concept of Big Name Fan has evolved into a position of authority on fandom, which does not fall to anyone regarding subjectivity. No one in a fandom is an authority except the creators themselves, who have every right to stay away from the fandoms they have birthed.

Popularity in general being conflated to intellectual authority as well, especially on websites with public stats, particularly following counts. The algorithm is no benevolent god, but people will sometimes see someone with 30k followers and think they are correct on a minor non-issue that has spiraled into discourse, especially when compared to someone with 30 followers. This also is just...a bummer when fanon evolves into perceived canon, and newcomers to the fandom can't post even innocuous meta or headcanons without it being perceived as morally/intellectually incorrect.

Monetization of fanworks, but especially zines, have led to a hypercompetitive atmosphere that only escalates the bitterness and resentment. This is not a universal problem, but many zines across all fandoms habitually accept the same artists and writers, or diminish the value of fanfic due to the limitations of physical printing. The application process has devolved into such a disheartening debacle for a majority of people I see, and the way it is often framed as "your work just wasn't good enough" when it's really about what the mods deem mass marketable will destroy just about anyone's self-esteem after repetitive rejections, and will give some frequent zine runners a false sense of final say over the community (not usually, but it can happen).

The level of distrust for anyone new attempting to start a fan project is just so depressing nowadays (and this one we sadly can blame on a few people by name, but the ones who have sent this issue spiraling still don't care and that just sucks. I feel horrible for everyone who has been tricked).

Somehow comment and anonymous asks have gone backwards from "don't feed the trolls" to "suck it up, at least you're getting comments." I have seen some of these comments people have been told to suck up. It's not okay in general. It's particularly gross when it's an anonymous hate message unrelated to the fanworks themselves, perhaps born out of resentment or bearing an ulterior motive. And some will even attack and defame character due to identity. It's not subtle. It's not okay. People should absolutely be dunked on for this, and I gotta say I'm sick of unsolicited concrit being enforced as positive either. If they didn't ask, don't give it. There's a reason a lot of fic writers some people adore suddenly go ghost, and they can't even talk about it.

Don't like, don't read has been discarded in favor of don't like, tell others don't read and also don't write. Transformative works don't have to fit into a canon or even in character mold. That's why they're transformative! It's a different type of artistic expression. If you don't like it, chances are good it simply wasn't meant for you. It's not bad. Don't shame others, god especially not for non-issues such as a t/b preference or a different gender hc, preferred haircuts, types of animal you imagine them as in another lifetime, I could list literally anything here and I bet there has been a fandom fight over it.

Exclusive yet publicly advertised community Discords that will bar you from invite if you're not one of the cool kids. I have unfortunately fallen into this trap before, and refuse to ever enable or endorse that behavior ever again. This isn't about friend groups either, it's about fandom-dedicated servers that flaunt themselves as a VIP club instead of what they are: a friend group. I also don't even know how to broach the subject of private accounts that turn into fandom tea accounts with dozens if not hundreds of followers, only for people to be angry if someone isn't exactly okay with horrific stuff being said in general, let alone about their mutuals or friends.

I know none of this will likely ever change, and tbh i'm so tired of it all, but...does anyone else know what I mean? I'm stressed out whenever I try to enjoy myself, because popularity and a strange business mindset is steadily taking over fandom spaces. I'm not saying people should stop trying to make stuff that sells, or that people universally do any of this, but fandom is evolving into a thing I'm not sure is good. idk anymore

[lunathewafflelord]

Sometimes it seems like the anti fandoms are more toxic than the actual fandom that the anti fandom people hate on, it's actually really sad.

MLP fans will know what I'm talking about

[katyspersonal]

I know we don't talk and there's stuff we may not agree with. But I am truly sorry you've dealt with a lot of drama over fictional crap. And I'm sorry if my posts in the past ever contributed to that. Hope you have a better day.

Hey... That's all fine, don't worry! After all, it takes a lot of time and Insight to realise that Gehrman is a very gentle and respectful man and Godrick is an absolute gigachad kdkdkshdffhhgfds /lh /lh

But yeah, on a serious note. It was quite frustrating to find out the real motivation under all that... mess was something so pathetic, but at the same time this is what happens when people make engagement with media and fandoms a moral, political act. Not necessarily a problem, after all, I was the one who concluded that the way a fan judges fictional characters and other fans will very well reveal how cruel they are to real people who do something bad, or how much they will forgive based on personal sympathies. And my mad ravings about caring about female characters! I think the problem comes when a fan is so insecure that they have nothing else besides this defence of ideals through fandomry. If your only way to assert yourself is to be a good guy punishing the bad guys, and that mad raving loredigger discovers there is NO bad guy, what is left of you?

This is why it is crucial to have passion for nurturing rather than for undermining! I think if you speak like this, you've found this truth too? This is true that I don't know you very much (mutual-in-law thing), but to be honest.. you didn't poison my fandom experience at all? I tend to never be aware about discourse until someone basically calls me for help fhdhgsdgdfs Can't scout the fandom tag regularly!

But not only it actually was a quite long ago I saw a "negative" post from you, but also I've seen through the posts that my friends liked or reblogged from you that you've actually became very eager person to defend people's passion and interests! I think the post that particularly got stuck with me was when you resented seeing someone's light die after some Redditor asshole "well aktualy"'d a thing they were excited about creating (not exact wording but maybe you remember too)? Like... you are fine, man. At that point I realised that you were a good fan and in the end valued people's creativity and passion over personal preferences. That you never wanted to be THAT guy, even if your interpretation could not be further from someone else's. Coming to terms with what actually matters in fandomry is very mature and I am happy to see this attitude!

I am still glad that you messaged me about this though; I did not expect this, but thank you! I think I will continue getting involved in fictional discourse because my autistic senses cannot ignore factually incorrect takes with a clear insidious motive, and.. eh, sooner or later, I'll piss off the wrong guy again. Don't feel bad for me when it inevitably happens :p I've accepted the shortcomings when I decided to be the debate guy. Simply laughing at some gremlin starting a discourse with the girls in DMs and not stressing over it is only funny until I realise that newer fans could get misinformed right off the bat.

[tigwex]

the d*nm*shi fandom climate is genuinely so fucking putrid and infighting-heavy it actively kind of reminds me of what d*eam smp was like before it died miserably

[weirdnerdygoat]

Oh look, a younger ford blushing picture...

I... may or may not be making something...

[aceredshirt13]

One thing I don’t understand about AA fandom is that often the popular takes are seen as the “one true interpretation” by much of the fandom to the detriment of any opposition. To this I raise a question about two of these popular takes: how is it that Yujin and Herlock, who become friends at the ages of 27 and 18, respectively, are shipped by a large majority of the fandom, but Edgeworth and Kay, who become friends at the ages of 26 and 17, respectively, are treated by a significant portion of the fandom as father and daughter?

I hadn't thought about it until recently, but they’re the same difference apart in years and have only a single year’s difference in when they befriend each other. So why on Earth is there such a huge difference in how the fandom interprets these friendships?? Why is Kay treated like enough of a child by the fanbase that her and Edgeworth’s age difference is interpreted as parental, when that same age difference isn’t viewed as an obstacle to romance with Herlock and Yujin? Is it because Kay is met at seventeen while Herlock is met at eighteen, even though those are fundamentally extremely similar ages? Is that why people who ship Kay and Edgeworth are smeared as pedophiles, even though I sincerely doubt any of them are shipping them while she’s still a year underage (I can attest that back when I was 14 and still shipped Narumayo, zero people I ever saw shipped them while Maya was still 17), while the same concerns about age are almost never raised with Homumiko? I have no interest in “age gap discourse” or whatever because I think it’s a silly and reductive argument as long as the relationship is healthy and no minors are involved with adults, but I do care about hypocrisy. So these are things I often ponder.

(Personally, I don’t subscribe to either of the popular interpretations, and prefer the duos to be the platonic guy-and-weird-girl dynamic they are in canon and that I enjoy (and write them as such in my fics about them). I don’t think nine years is enough of a gap to interpret any character as the parent of another, and that’s also just not what Edgeworth and Kay’s dynamic feels like to me - in the same way that I was never under the impression that Yujin’s affection for Herlock was anything other than friendly and familial. I also do not envision it as the reverse - which is to say, I can’t see Kay getting together with Edgeworth any more than I can see Yujin as Herlock’s dad. But I am also not going to be upset if anyone disagrees with me, as long as they are not upset with me - because regardless of the interpretation, it’s clear that both pairs like each other, love each other, and care about each other dearly. All I’m saying is that I think if someone is going to have a fandom hill they wish to die on, they should make sure that hill has a leg to stand on. Mixing my metaphors here. But you get what I mean.)

[fortunatefires]

Something I hate about booktok is that no matter how much time you spend trying to curate your feed you will always run into smut. I don't inherently have a problem with that but it's so present and all consuming within booktok that it's almost impossible to avoid. Also, the smut isn't even that good. I would be less annoyed if the smut was good.

[crown-ov-horns]

Like I said, I haven't seen Season 2. And, this storyline is far from being uploaded (though, it's my favorite among my Good Omens WIPs).

Still, I'm frustrated, and feel like rewriting a few things (perfect time, I suppose).

I read some comment on Pinterest that Crowley and Beelzebub have sibling energy, and was hooked.

I now want to make them sisters in this one especially. The problem? Beelzebub is supposed to be Crowley's biggest detractor. They despise each other. And, my Antichrist despises Beelzebub, because she's an enemy to her mother. And, I'm very much in the "blood means alliance regardless of feelings" camp.

I mean, the situation could be interesting to explore. They're sisters, and they loathe each other. Beelzebub resents Crowley, for treason, as well as for not appreciating the honour she's endowed with (being the one to first tempt humankind, then becoming the Queen of Hell), and slacking on her duties. They're at a conflict, then reconcile. In truth, they had always loved one another. They'd kill and die protecting one another... Yes, of course, they'll still want to cut each other's throat a lot of the time. 😈

I think, I could add moments of tenderness in the timeline set around the Antichrist's birth, too, just to show they indeed love one another. For example, Beelzebub being by Crowley's side during the key moments, like the birth. Hell... In the later timeline, I had planned a scene where Beelzebub attacks Crowley with a dagger. But, it might as well still happen, then they reconcile. Satan wouldn't even be surprised, he has the same dynamic with Michael. Meanwhile, Maxine would simply be thankful she's the only child (not completely true, but true enough), as siblings in her family are... Yeah.

Beelzebub could get knocked up by Gabriel. Crowley would get incentive to be protective of her sister, like she had been of her. I don't know about this story, but in some story, probably, that'll hapen. It's very beneficial... Politics-wise. I doubt any child would benefit from having these two

as parents...

They (Crowley and Beelzebub) will definitely be siblings in the dream scenario I had talked about (I said I'll put it aside, but I picked at the birth scene already, because I was inspired 🤡). But, siblings with a twist... Think, Crimson Peak AU (this isn't the one, but still). I guess, in this one I can explore actual tenderness between them, far before their relationship takes a turn towards... Well, incest.

All in all, I'll make them siblings in some of my WIPs, but about others, I'm not certain. I guess, it would thicken the fucked up layer in one of them... No, that has nothing to do with incest.

I wanted to put my thoughts into a somewhat coherent form, but, if you stumbled upon this, do tell me... I don't know, what you think. There's so much potential to this dynamic. The sibling one, I mean.

P.S. - Beelzebub is always female in my works, but she's still addressed as "my Lord". Just a random... Headcanon?

[x-i-l-verify]

Dreblr @ the entire fandom for the foreseeable future:

[crownedwille]

everytime i go on yrtwt and think it might be fun, i lose ten years of my life

[tricksterlatte]

The Online Fandom 7 Deadly Sins

sloth: complaining about how no one writes the tropes or pairings you like and bashing what's already out there, while refusing to create anything you desire yourself

greed: zine and other finance-related scandals with zero remorse for those negatively affected

gluttony: spending rent money on merch, experiencing buyer's remorse, then repeating the same process next month

wrath: anon hate over literally everything under the sun, even harassing official writers and threatening them if they don't make your ship canon

pride: devaluing other's characterizations and ships to praise yours as better, whether through a canon perspective or a moral perspective, when neither matter in the long run when it comes to your own enjoyment

envy: trash talking others' fandom creations or saying you won't bother creating anything because it'll never be as good as them

lust: fighting over who tops or bottoms because of your personal preferences when one, both, or neither could happen, especially when most of these characters never even kiss canonically nor have most people fighting done any of these things irl themselves

[welcometogrouchland]

It's definitely not the most widely held belief in online fan spaces (at least not at it's full potency, I think a watered down version is more widely felt imo) but I do think some fans approach art and fandom with this weird idea that because a bad story disappoints or even hurts the fans of a work, it's like. A personal and/or moral failing of the creator for making that bad story. And it should be treated with the same gravitas as something with more far reaching consequences and implications. Yknow?

[ravelights]

Just a warning, I've gotten back into Star Wars bullshit again so I'm probably going to be posting stuff about that for the foreseeable future.

[theorderofthetriad]

again with this shit

Stop acting like Ed’s some unhinged abusive monster for the toe thing while trivializing Izzy’s bad choices in the same breath.

Stop acting like Izzy is some unhinged abusive monster for his litany of bad choices while trivializing Ed's violent actions in the same breath!

Everyday I get less and less tolerant of people acting like Ed overreacted and Izzy did absolutely nothing to justify what happened to him in episode 10.

Everyday I get less and less tolerant of people acting like cutting off someone's toe while they sleep and forcing them to eat it is ever a justified action!!!! It does not matter what the person you're doing it to did in order to "justify" having it happen to them, you are still maiming someone!

Besides “Ed’s becoming a different person so Izzy has the right to be upset” does not track

I don't think i have ever in my time scouring the Izzy Hands tag seen someone say that Izzy has the right to think or do the things he's done. I've seen people explain the why of those things, but never justifying the actions. Someone explaining why Izzy thinks his actions were the right choices in the moment is not the same as them actually saying that Izzy's actions were the right thing to do.

I think the reason people see these things as lesser than the choking or toe incident is because of the subconscious tendency we have to deemphasize emotional abuse.

I think the reason people are trying to justify Ed permanently maiming Izzy is because they subconsciously think that some abuse is okay and maybe even deserved if the victim is an unpleasant or "bad" person. I mean this person literally said "people acting like [...] Izzy did absolutely nothing to justify what happened to him." as though what Izzy did justified what happened.

The pain Ed caused Izzy was not worse or “disproportionate” to what Izzy caused Ed just because it was physical.

yeah actually it fucking was disproportionate. like, yeah, the things Izzy said were supremely shitty, but i've had people say things to me that were way worse and I'd chose the mental trauma of those cruel words over the physical trauma of getting my toe cut off (and the mental trauma of being forced to eat my own fucking toe) literally any goddamn day.

"just because it was physical" as though there's gonna be no mental element to that trauma. jfc

[magical-bigbang-noona]

So, I didn't know this, because as I said I've been on a long "No S* and his toxic stans idiocy" hiatus, but his official Instagram was removed (last year?) because he is a convicted sex offender.

Let's say that again for all the stans in the back with their blinders on and fingers firmly planted in their ears.

Convicted. Sex. Offender.

He is a convicted sex trafficker. Let's review the part in the court document reveals where it's stated that, among the 29 counts of sex trafficking they could prove, was him personally picking up guests/clients from Japan, being present in the car where sex services took place with sex workers he provided and paid for , all while transporting the entire group to a hotel where the sexual services continued.

Yeah. Let that one sink in.

Then, again, there is the ultimate capper where the court proved he persuaded three young women to pose nude together in bed which he filmed personally and then subsequently uploaded it to a molka chat on Kakao. While they were on a fan promotion tour.

If you're still in deep denial and/or beating the drums in praise of this man then you have a problem and if documented court proceedings showing exactly what he was convicted of won't move your stubborn brain on this matter then nothing can.

And good luck thinking a convicted sex offender with a long record who served time is going to be back on top of the heap, welcomed back to the industry he fled like a coward, resume his career, and perform for you like nothing ever happened.

In Korea? As high profile as this whole thing has been? I don't think so.

On a side note I also thank God that at least three of the four members finally left the YG dumpster fire. I hope GD will follow suit, especially now that YG himself is back like a cockroach, but that's my opinion and his own business.