#idk how what they're going to do with her character in s5 and i'm not smart enough to come up with theories

[bronx-bomber87]

Hello amazing fandom :) I have been itching for this ep since the moment D sent me the ep description for it. I'm glad they didn't spoil much of this ep at all. I have a lot of feelings for this one so might be so mini LOL Off we go.

6x05 The Vow

Oh my lord starting out hot with a romantic dinner and a kiss. Also want to talk about they both light up when they see each other. Like they're still in that honeymoon phase somewhat. They’re both so happy to see each other I wanna die. haha Lucy of course has to question the gift. Saying gift giving is not his love language. Damn they cute. Tim saying he is trying to change things up. I’m squeeing and we’re like less than a minute in everyone.

Damnit he’s so romantic with what the gift is. It’s her radio from last week. Oh my word. Lucy is in awe of this man standing before her. Oh my goodness we get a second kiss I’m squeeing so hard. *screams into a pillow* A thank you kiss no less. Loving how he has his hand wrapped around her arm. Pulling her in close for both misses. You know I should've known this ep was going to hurt with getting two kisses within the span of 3 minutes and a cute ass moment to boot.

Like in a video game where they let you stumble upon a bunch of ammo right before a massive fight scene. You know shit is about to go down with them supplying you like that. How I felt with getting cuteness and two kisses right away. I am so excited Tamara has appeared. Wouldn’t be the return of her if she didn’t cock block them. Tim shaking his head too. Classic. Lucy telling her it’s ok. Also LOVING that they have a pre-planned date night. Be still my heart.

Tim gets his cryptic ass phone call and immediately takes off. Lucy looks crushed for a couple reasons. First that he can’t stay. She was clearly looking forward to a night with her man all day. Second the fact he's so short with her. Breaking my heart 'Just wait.' Her Tim radar is going OFFFF Lucy looks SHOOK with his hasty departure. Her heart just walked out the door and it shows.

Oh my word I knew It would be from his military past. The blind spot for the most part we have with his character. I was hoping it would be. The Tim fan girl in me is psyched af. I was thinking who is this Ray and why is Tim so spooked? Then we find out this dude killed their friends and there’s a promise.... Uhhhh the promise is to kill him? Uh Timothy, my love you are a cop….

Oh Lucy is anxious af without him. Ugh she knows something is wrong immediately. Knows this man too damn well. Side tangent about to start. I know some people complained how long it took for them to get together blah blah. BUT I wasn’t. These moments right here are exactly why.

The fact that the very second he took that call she knew deep in her gut something was wrong with him. That is not a connection you get with someone overnight. That is years worth of working together, leaning on each other, learning about one another and seeing each other through a lot of things together. That connection and instinct on someone is built over time.

The beautiful recipe they have now wasn’t ready till we got close to it in s4 and even then they still had some tweaking to do before we reached S5. That being said I love her missing him. My guess is other than 6x01 they’ve scarcely spent a night apart. Also her Tim radar is going bonkers right now. She looks so sick to her stomach when she hangs up.

Tim seeing Lucy’s call going off and not being able to answer. It's clearly killing him. We see him take a beat and a deep breath. Clearly doesn’t want to be here rather be there with her. Last thing he wanted was his date night interrupted. Also she is his ‘go to’ for pretty much everything. You know its actively tearing him up to not answer her.

Oh my he was called the 'Reaper'? Holy hell why is that so attractive? Everything with Tim usually is. But hot damn that being his nickname in the service? I am fanning myself. Idk if that's wrong but I am haha But it does give us insight to who he was in the service tbh. You don't get called 'The Reaper.' without good reason.... Why Greer thinks Tim is going soft on him.

I do love Tim reinforcing the law also very attractive oh my goodness. You tell ‘em love. I don’t love this guy guilting Tim into keeping this pact. He’s SOOOOO loyal he’s gonna keep to it. Even at his own detriment. The man shoulders SO MUCH he already doesn't need to. Ugh Tim saying they’ve built lives. Yes you have. With Lucy. The love of your life you walked away from tonight to be here right now. After this chat I knew this ep was going to hurt so good. I could feel it.

The jokes in the car are cute was hoping he’d ask Tim about Lucy. Sadly we didn't' get this. This whole situation makes me nervous af. God Tim looks extra fine in this episode street clothes on him are a wonder. A delicious one.

My god this list of crimes this guy has done sweet lord. Stole money. Called in an air strike on his own men when they came for him holy shit …Wasn't enough to bury in a shoe box.....fuck they both lied to get Ray’s wife and kid death benefits and if they bring him in it’s a problem.

Crap this is so bad Tim... Saying they’ll get fired from their current jobs and be dishonorably discharged from the service. I’m nervous…this isn’t a good situation. Also not surprised in the least he broke the rules to take care of someone. That empathy of his ran deep before it got buried by his Isabel trauma later on.

First off let me say Eric KILLED ME in this scene. I was tearing up at how tore up he is about all of this. Tim wanting to take the fall.... Damnit Timothy you have a life too. Don't fall on your sword my god imma cry. Tim’s integrity is one of his sexiest traits IMO. I too have a deep sense of integrity drives everyone I work with insane. He’s in tears saying he would arrest him. Oh my word. I'm crying again. Eric killing me softly holy hell. I'm so mad at Greer for putting that on him. I had a bad feeling about Greer the minute he guilted Tim into this side OP.

How dare you put that on my Tim. He already has so much on his soul. A chunk of it not even his fault. The man is a deeper empath than he gets credit for. He absorbs the feelings and pain of those around him and shoulders things he doesn't need to. I'm learning in therapy I do the same thing. My therapist told me one thing to be empathetic. It's another to feel responsible for other's feelings or the outcome of actions I've taken and how it affects others. I feel like Tim is the same way. He's such an empath he's taken that responsibility to the extreme and is carrying things he doesn't need to be.

I wanna hug him oh my god. His sigh when Greer left. My heart. I'm sure part of the reason he's hiding this from Lucy is the shame he feels. This man (Ray) stole half a million from the government then bombed his own people on his watch. Tim breaks the rules to make sure his widow and child are taken care of and its bites him in this ass. There is a reason he was/is so damn rigid as a cop. 'Rules matter boot.' His PTSD in a line. Anytime he has let his guard down and skirted the rules people have been injured (Mitch) or in this case killed. Ugh. My poor boy. The hitch in his breath like he couldn't breath that entire convo. I'm hurting so much for him in this episode.

Poor Lucy kept it together at work but lost it when he finally gets home. That look of hope when he walks through the door then instant anger. ‘Telling me you’re alive is not optional.’ Ugh she’s not wrong....I can only imagine what her anxiety was doing to her until he walked through that door. It's shown in her lines above. Her imagining him bleeding out somewhere.

She is not wrong it wasn't ok he didn't even tell her he was alive. I get why he didn't but he should've. Lucy straight confronting him. Asking him what the actual hell is going on with him? No one knows you better than her. You can't hide what you're going through. Tim of course wants to protect her from being fired and refuses to tell her what he's torn up about. Only alluding to it's serious enough if she knows she will be jeopardizing her standing at work.

Her saying 'Then what are you doing here?' God damn Lucy... telling it like it is. Holy hell. Poor Tim is so taken aback by her response. He breaks my heart when he says 'I came to see you.' Lucy has become his safe place. His comfort zone. So by default he came here to seek that comfort. She is home now and he came home. But she can’t comfort you when she doesn’t know what to comfort you for. This scene hurts to watch. Because he is DYING for her compassion, her warmth and just her. He is denied access because she is setting a boundary with this as she should. Tim needs to share the load with her. To tell her the truth. She is willing to risk her standing for him.

My god if she actually knew she would be kicking herself for how much he needs her right now. But she doesn't know so she sends him away. The tears in both their eyes His 'Understood'. Man is about to cry in front of her. I’m dying. Someone revive me. I’m dead and not in a good way. I’m crying. Eric and Melissa out here crushing it though. Gah Tim would rather blow them up and protect her than not ugh Timmmmmmm I get both sides of this. Tim thinks since this is pre-Lucy and could get her in trouble he needs to bear this alone. When she is begging him to let her share the load of this. Sending him away is her setting a boundary. That he needs to think not just of her but of them. To tackle things together. To stop protecting her.

They’re both hurting in this scene. But the issue at hand still is them only thinking in terms of 'Me' not us. Even though when one of them does this it’s to protect the other. That’s fine and dandy but when it come to them as a whole it’s a problem. Shit hits the fan they eject away thinking that’s the best course of action. It’s been an issue for some time this lack of communication. This is just bringing it to a head. They don’t think how can we tackle this together? They think how can I protect my person from this? Or protect their feelings by lying.

Also think that radio being in this scene was there for a reason. That radio is the representation of Lucy not telling Tim exactly how not ok she was in 6x04. She was so willing to pretend she was ok. And instead of leaning on him. Voicing that so they could tackle it together. She ran into the line of fire recklessly instead to prove herself worthy again. Almost killing herself in the process. Because she was in her head instead of communicating to Tim. These two gonna be death of me...

Wanna hug Lucy. She is desperate for any kind of help. So she reaches out to Nolan. John per usual is completely useless for her in a crisis. Man is as useful as using a fork to eat soup. These are the moments I miss Jackson for Lucy so much. He would’ve had a much better an answer. Then just ‘you're shit out of luck.’ That’s not enough damnit.

Nolan basically saying. "What are you gonna do?' with a shrug. If I could clock you John I would. I don't normally watch the preview for the next ep till I'm done assembling my thoughts. But with this one I couldn't wait. This is why Lucy goes to Angela next week about Tim instead. She needed a real grown up to help her with Tim.

We rejoin Lucy looking at her phone. Trying so damn hard not to reach out. To be the trusting girlfriend for her man. I know we're in a bad spot but Lucy calling Tim 'her man' gah yes please more of that. I am grateful for Tamara. She needs her right now since Nolan is useless af. Lucy is trying so very hard not to spiral out atm. She confronted him and it didn't go well. Lucy is feeling at a loss right now and rightfully so. I adore Tamara for making her laugh in this moment so very much.

The lesson's Tamara has learned is too damn cute. I loved it so much. Lucy needed this moment of levity and her pseudo daughter crushed it. We pan back to Tim also starting at his phone wanting to call. Ugh Tim what are you gonna do babe? You can’t kill him. Can’t turn him in. I feel sick lol Also once again amazing song to close it out. I watch the ep with my gaming headphones on. One because I love hearing Eric’s voice straight in my ears not gonna lie. Don’t judge me ha Also catch onto music more so with them on.

But back to the matter at hand…Now do I think they’re gonna break up cause he’s gonna protect her? I don’t. Their angst since they got together has always been productive. Is it gonna hurt like a son of a bitch before we get there? Yes.

My hope is this drives them to depend on one another more and not just straight protect each other at the detriment of the one they're ironically trying to protect. Better communication which has been an issue for some time. To learn to face these challenges not only head on but hand in hand while they do so. These are the types of things they need to learn before their relationship gets any more serious than it is tbh. So while this hurts like a lot it'll be good for them in the long run.

This season has EXCEEDED my expectations ten fold. If you aren't happy with this season idk what will make you happy tbh. I said the same thing about S5 as well. I cannot wait for next week. Which I am hoping is full of worried/feral Lucy and their reunion and growth from it. Phew feel free to comment any theories or thoughts on my first take thoughts I love them so. Also thank you everyone supporting these mini reviews you're amazing and makes the effort always worth it.

Side notes -non Chenford

Ok Aaron seeing his therapist at the bar excited for him I knew low key there would be something there.

Bailey and John seem so cold I know they’re on duty but even grey held his wife’s hand at the hospital…

Of course Smitty takes his break at a therapist office

Lucy’s joke about Celina omg LOL I'm impressed with such a solid joke when she was low key worried the love of her life was dying in a ditch somewhere...

Also clearly his therapist is a lying liar who lies but how can she not be? She's his therapist and WORK one at that. Be interesting to see how this unfolds.

[anti-spop]

tumblr keeps recommending me c//a and pro Catra posts, it's both entertaining and irritating. anyway, i'd like to know your thoughts on this post!

personally, i feel like c//a stans misunderstand our point. we keep saying that Catra does deserve a redemption but she doesn't deserve forgiveness, or at least, instantaneous forgiveness when she has put no effort into trying to change. but they take it as "CATRA IS AN IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER WHO DESERVES TO ROT IN HELL" (which, ironically, is what they say about characters like shadow weaver).

also Adora "wanted" Catra in the finale season because that's how the authors wrote her. it made no sense for her character to suddenly want Catra back after it took her so long to finally cut Catra out of her life.

Do not go after the person who wrote the original post. (this is mostly for my other followers)

Tumblr has been doing the same thing to me, too. It showed me a post that said that as similar as Catra was to Shadow Weaver, she improved to be better. Which is a lie, lmao.

I hate that people think redemption and forgiveness are the same thing. You are allowed to improve as an individual, but the people you hurt don't owe you forgiveness. Sadly, SPOP doesn't have a single character that chooses not to forgive Catra. Even though Frosta punched her in the face, she was more accepting of Catra than Entrapta. Same counts for Perfuma and the other princesses. Though I'm pretty sure anyone would be demonized for not believing that "Catra got better!!!". S5 already does this when Adora vents about Catra being a stubborn brat, she just looks pathetic and Glimmer doesn't take her seriously.

And indeed, most stans think characters like Shadow Weaver or Hordak are not allowed to be redeemed, that's really because they're older and physically disabled.

Finally, yeah, Adora in s4 completely gave up on Catra, she didn't hesitate to nearly kill her without any remorse. Adora's priority was her friends, but especially Glimmer. "I want to be the hero she deserves". But you never see C//A stans talking about that, lol. They only bring up Glimmer and Adora's conflict or Glimmadora at all so they can shit on Glimmer and prove that Catra is a better girlfriend. Which is also bullshit.

Adora is allowed to want things, yes, but s5 pretty much sums it up as her wanting Catra of all people. Not her friends, not a family, or knowing more about her origins, idk. Just Catra. It's literally always about her. Adora is not a character that exists outside of Catra anymore. S5 definitely reinforced this, and the fandom only repeats this. It's annoying.

[findafight]

Controversial headcanons/opinions! That are mostly about Steve now that I read them back.

1. Stancy’s biggest roadblock is Nancy’s inability to admit she’s wrong/makes mistakes.

2. Jancy’s biggest roadblock is Jonathan’s parentification. Jon loves Will, but some of his devotion to him is tied up in that - something I think fandom tends to overlook. We’ve already seen that Nancy either forgets or underestimates how much the Byers rely on Jon and I would not put it past her to view him looking after Will on the same level as her having to look after Mike & Holly.

Even once it’s revealed and they talk about it, it’s going to open a rift between them.

3. Joyce doesn’t give a shit about Steve and never will. Hop gives a shit reluctantly, in a mostly professional capacity but will be haunted with guilt if Steve dies.

4. Karen Wheeler is a shitty person and if the Duffers wanted me to think different maybe shouldn’t have teased her considering sleeping with a kid her daughter’s age. Also doesn’t give a shit about Steve, but is better at hiding it.

5. Billy, while being in the closet and brimming with self hatred, did not have a crush on Steve - he wanted the weird codependent yet weirdly void of sexual tension friendship that Steve would go onto have with Robin.

The fact that Steve hated him and was constantly ignoring him or pushing back at him was part of the appeal. That and the fact Steve’s a bitch - Billy thought that was hilarious.

6. Steve intelligence wise is average and actually has a fairly broad general knowledge - he just has difficulty with the terminology and isn’t great at explaining things to other people.

7. Steve’s kids are Dustin, Max, Lucas and Erica. He will absolutely protect the other three, but any presence he continues to have in their lives is a by-product of the other four.

8. Mike has a on again/off again crush on Steve and it’s part of the reason he turns into an angry cat around him.

9. We will meet Vickie’s entire family before we see the Harringtons on-screen.

10. Jon would *not* react well to Stargyle happening - he refuses to believe Steve is queer, assuming he’s just messing with Argyle/trying to get revenge on Jon for cheating with Nancy (for added tragicomedy, this is how Steve finds out about that).

11. Eddie likes ABBA. I have no fucking idea why fandom seems to think that he’d hate it and has me genuinely questioning how many people in fandom have met an actual metalhead. I know he’s a pretentious douche, but *Jesus*.

12. Whatever else happens between them, Robin will always hold a grudge against Nancy for not knowing who she was when they were first introduced. Steve has the excuse of being a popular kid who was ignorant of his surroundings at all times. Robin is the person who could swipe Valedictorian out from under Nancy but chooses not too. See also, Barb and the handful of grudges she has with Nancy regarding Steve.

omg so many anon! let's do this. long post so I'm going to add a readmore!

Yeah I mostly agree? The inability to let Nancy apologize or be wrong I think really sets back her growth as a character no matter what, and it's really pronounced with stancy! It is something that could be resolved but I do not think the show will do that. Steve wasn't the person Nancy needed in s2, but maybe he is now. Idk there's better stancy meta out there haha There are issues they have I'd love to see addressed but. doubtful they will. Idk if nancy will end up single (like I think she should) but I also don't know if they're actually going to follow through on stancy revival in s5 or just leave jancy as is.

2. Jonathan's parentification!! Absolutely agree. He needs to work through his inability to move on and look to the future for himself. His focus is on Will, who needs more of an older brother from him than another parent, especially now Will is closer to the age Jon was when everything started. Jon is defined by his family, and them needing him. But we sort of see in s4 that Will is growing up, El is too, and they don't need him in the same way Will needed to depend on him in earlier seasons, and Jon is spending time smoking with Argyle, but not actually dealing with what he's feeling.

this is room for Jonathan to develop character-wise, but it's also so interesting how his parentification has been an issue with Nancy! Like she wants to be a priority, but Jon can't do that, because he hasn't figured out how to 1) focus on himself and his wants 2) let himself look at the future as something that isn't looming but something to look forward to!

God I would love to see him figure out what he actually wants and how to balance that with his loyaty to his family in the show! or read a jon focused fic where he gets to deal with these things.

3. Joyce doesn't like steve :'| why would she? he's just some guy to her that Jon didn't like and who used to date her son's girlfriend. Steve's not on her radar at all she doesn't give a shit about him lol (I should write more of the joyce doesn't like steve fic)

4. uhg yeah I think I've already posted about alternatives to the stupid Karen side-plot where it's like. random pool middle age affair man, flirting with mr. clarke, or just her making moves on her own husband to show she wants to make changes in their marriage and the fair being a little date for the wheelers or SOMETHING to make her not creepy and actual have it mean something to her character? or just. not! include! any karen plotline at all!

5. billy is interesting because i would say there might be some one-sided sexual thing happening between him and Steve, and Steve hating and ignoring him would totally egg him on with whatever was going on in his brain. idk if he wanted it actually actionable but was probably going for some weird and very intense pscho-sexual homoerotic relationship. maybe not what could be described as a crush but certainly not whatever stobin has going on (though if he had lived stobin would have also pissed him off lol)

6. Yes! steve can understand a lot if he's given time to understand it. like he's just not a genius or talking fast, and he asks clarifying questions so he (and everyone else) knows exactly what's happening. maybe that might look like he's getting left behind but he's making sure everyone is on the same page, which is actually an important part of plans and sharing info. I'd also say he'd probably have pretty good head for strategy!

7. Dustin, Max, Lucas and Erica are absolutely steve's kids! thank goodness we got Steve and Max content in s4, but I'd love to see more of Steve and Lucas and Erica! I do love Steve with El too, because I think they should and could have a great dynamic, but that's all fanon, unfortunately. Mike and Will having some kind of relationship with Steve are just byproducts of Steve being friends with the others.

8. Mike and his mortifying crush on steve is so precious to me. He'd be so mad about it. It'd be so funny. to me. not for him. but for me :)

9. Harrington parents will remain an unsolved mystery haunting the fandom forever and always. We will know the names of Robin's grandparents and their pets before we see or hear anything more than Mr. and Mrs. Harrington.

10. I am obsessed with this idea. I love stargyle sort of coming out of nowhere for other people. My favourite. They can bond over having great hair and being a chauffeur for children not related to them. Jon side-eyeing this so hard even tho maybe he's been focusing on Nancy and their relationship when steve and argyle are having their Bonding Moments. The confrontation of Jon accusing Steve of getting with Argyle to mess with him, Steve going "what the hell. why would I have an elaborate polt to mess with you that included pretending to be queer? and kissing a man? multiple times??"

and Jon blurting about how of course he would to get back at jon for cheating with Nancy and steve just stopping. and trying to clarify. and Jon digging himself deeper. ooooooh. something to think about and expand on?? 👀👀👀

11. it was the 80s and disco was way out of style but also. who doesn't like ABBA. don't trust anyone who doesn't like at least one ABBA song. suspicious. Eddie would be vocal about his hatred for Progressive Rock though.

12. Robin and her grudges!!!! omg yes if robin was holding herself back from being valedictorian she'd be Pissed that Nancy didn't know who she was. like at least know your rivals! that in combination with the barb thing and all the steve things. Robin's not letting it go. I love her pettiness she's so funny and great. Queen.

[castleclerics]

the other story being told in s1

(had this in my dafts for like 5 months but i decided to finally get the pics and post since we're talking more about timelines rn)

they are literally telling us exactly what events would've taken place if the gate was never opened, the original universe. the sad raw reality of a horrible situation in a small town in the 80's. if the UD did not combine with the real world, if el never opened the gate and didn't escape the lab and everything played out as it should've. i'm gonna guess that el opening the gate and/or will doing something thrust the normal hawkins timeline into a different one, the one we see the entire series, while still telling the story of what happened in the original timeline, without showing that timeline.

will byers is a gay kid who gets bullied for it and abused by his dad which eventually drives him to off himself by jumping into the quarry. (what hopper believes too if you look at the subtext including hopper asking joyce if will is gay). his mom starts thinking he's not actually dead and goes "crazy" impacting her loved ones around her. will's friends cope by thinking one of the monsters from their beloved game is the reason he's dead.

mike takes it the hardest though and starts believing will is alive too, but his friends help him come to terms with realizing he's not. he eventually jumps into the quarry too, thinking he can be with will again. if el never opened the gate the bullies would've never chased dustin and mike there, and mike wouldn't be saved.

these two bikes could represent will and mike in the og timeline hence the pan and prolonged shot on them.

how will ties into this is very interesting. we know he does shit with his watch so he obviously is aware of things other people aren't and in control of time in some capacity. for reasons i will not go into and gatekeep for a lil longer only bc it took me 6+ months to figure out lmao i know he's totally aware of these two different timelines and might have some doing with shifting the timeline. just notice how he always looks immensely guilty especially in s4. it's also another reason why he feels like a mistake, because he knows he's supposed to be dead. he himself in the parallel universe we watch the show through is literally a mistake. he probably still questions if he even deserves to be alive now in this parallel timeline.

now stay with me......

look at the dialogue and how they show the gate when this is said. literally showing the gate, a hole.

even having the bullies repeat this line

the biggest hole of them all...... literally in the middle of the hawkins community area.

will dying in the other/og timeline due to the abuse for being gay is somehow the root cause for this hole, and he knows it.

maybe that's how they'll tie his sexuality storyline in with his supernatural one, and why they're so incredibly linked. this is how he's the main character especially of s5 when they explain how will has always been the most vital part of the story.

adding to this since we know about the henry/edward timeline weirdness now, i think it's possible the og timeline = henry's and the parallel/one we've been watching this whole time = edward's. idk how well that lines up i'll have to think about it but it makes me think......

[lesbianrobin]

i understand ur post but i have a byler mutual saying almost the exact same thing about if they make mlvn endgame because to give will one sole love interest and put him through that much trauma and struggle to accept his sexuality only to have the guy reject him and end up with his sister is homophobic writing and u probably dont agree but i find it hysterical that st have managed to get themselves into such a conundrum that their only option is to introduce mikes secret twin of the opposite sexuality thats been there the whole time so they both get a happy ending. surely this is a perfect plan and there are no flaws whatsoever and everyone will be satisfied

SMCKSKXJSNKE i was literally just talking to sarah about how they've written themselves into a corner by reintroducing the stoncy love triangle in s4 because BEFORE they could have been like yeah steve is over her and now he's finding fulfillment outside of romance etc etc but now they've reignited stancy for some fuckin reason (my fingers are crossed for that theory that says since the upside down is stuck in 1983 it was making steve and nancy's 1983 feelings come back) and suddenly they'll be pissing off Some segment of the fanbase no matter what they do.

re: byler i think. well first of all i think that byler isn't even remotely on the radar of casual viewers as an actual possibility and i don't think it could happen in s5 bc the vast majority of viewers would be like where the fuck did that come from. second of all my el argument is partially a joke but also it's just fundamentally a very different situation where like. for will if byler doesn't happen nothing gets Worse for him shit just stays the same. for el if byler happens something Must get worse for her like she loses her boyfriend of 2-3 years. they're in different situations.

third of all i think it's very silly for people to act like will Needs for mike to like him back in order to be happy when like. it's not The Crush that's making will miserable it's being closeted in a small town in the 1980s and feeling like he can never have what he wants and be truly happy in life. mike liking him back would not fix the misery he feels at having to hide this part of himself from the world.

yknow in s3 robin is a sorta closed-off character who's snarky and prickly at times and she only really opens up in the russian torture scene + the bathroom scene. and in the bathroom scene she is Terrified to tell steve she likes girls but she confesses to having a crush on tammy thompson and... steve makes her feel okay about it. he makes fun of her crush and robin feels Normal and Safe and they laugh together and by the time s4 rolls around robin is a much more open and happy person than she was back before she'd come out to steve. she's more herself. and you know what never happened? tammy thompson never liked her back. robin didn't need a girlfriend. she needed love and support and validation from a good friend. she needed to find comfort with herself and her sexuality and all the other parts of her that she hid behind a tough exterior for protection.

as much as i hate watching will scenes bc noah schnapp can't act for shit, i am kinda looking forward to seeing him finally openly addressing his sexuality in s5 and maybe realizing that his childhood crush on his best friend not being reciprocated isn't the end of the world. i think if will could move on and let mike go (in the romantic sense not as a friend) it might also feel a bit like letting go of all his pain over the past few years and starting over with a clean slate. obviously idk what exactly's gonna happen in s5 we're all just making shit up right now but i guess that's kinda what i hope will happen with him.

it makes me sad kinda that will's most dedicated fans are more preoccupied with getting him a boyfriend than like... self-confidence and shit. but i'm not actually that sad bc i kinda don't give a fuck about will anyway

[croissantk]

AUGH IDK IF IM LATE TO THE ASK GAME BUT !!! mk and mei for the duo bingo!

HI HI HI you're not late at all don't worry!!

GOD OKAY. They make me a little bit insane. I know they like NEVER talk about it in the show, but I fully believe they met as children btw. However, I do think it would be funny if they met not too long before the show starts and their friendship is just Like That already. Because jt would be funny. (Pls writers give us more backstory) Also, yes, it's a little weird, but I'm cool w both romantic and familial interpretations as long as you don't take away from the friendship aspect. Because they literally have no other excuse for caring about each other in the way they do, it's just pure platonic devotion. (So basically, as long as ur interpretation stays in character) just GOSH they are so silly and then when shit starts getting serious they're clearly like eachothers #1 priority; their first instinct is to protect eachother. (Yes I'm looking at s4e2 when mk chooses to save mei from the curse goop over everyone else. Yes I'm looking at s3e9 when mei tried to attack macaque for hurting mk even though she was literally KEELED over in pain. And many more such cases.)

Not even to mention what we were talking about in rb tags of my post, where the way their relationship/themselves are kinda foreshadowed to be something doomed (especially in regards to the hero&warrior/eclipseduo parallels) but they care about eachother (and everyone else) so much, that they both make self-sacrifical actions just to save eachother (and the world). Mei losing her sword when protecting mk. Letting herself be captured by lbd so mk can get away safely. The whole thing with mk going in the samadhi fire to reach mei. Which is also something I so desperately wish we could get a parellel/sequel to with the roles switched; mei trying to reach mk in his struggle with his identity/powers. It ties into both themes of abandoning vs protecting your friends + breaking the cycle sooo well.

However!!! Another aspect that I wish got more attention; how mk is ignorant to mei's feelings sometimes. It happens a few times throughout the show and it's usually brushed off easily but it IS a recurring issue that I wish the writers delved into more..it was kinda touched on in s5 and it made my eyebrows raise but it looks like it's still being played for jokes? Idk. I find it interesting because it is very clear that mk and swk are avoidant to their own feelings but no one talks about how mei is like that as well. I think mk and mei both struggle with self-worth issues just in a different font, that leads them to both make self-sacrificing decisions for the sake of the people they care about. Then you mix that together into one derangedly devoted relationship. And I wish they did more with it. Bc it makes me crazy.

[maddy-ferguson]

honestly byler side of the fandom (specifically mike fans most of the time) made me realize it can be really racist without intention especially regarding how they ignore lucas's character often times in favor of propping mike or mike's relationship with other characters. idk i don't even think the ga does this. if you asked them what is the relation btwn mike and max will be in the next season they'd say mike is gonna support lucas and el emotionally, like as a friend. no one with their mind would think mike's gonna interact with max or will be able to find or save her like wtf.

i know like lucas doesn't get that much in canon you're gonna take what little he has from him and make it about mike instead? lmao. i remember last summer someone on sttwt said they couldn't love lucas and max's relationship because it felt one-sided and everyone was like how dare you say this worry about byler instead etc etc but they were literally RIGHT, billy abuses max and dies, they have lucas comfort her and her dealing with her complicated feelings surrounding its death its own (great) storyline, billy assaults lucas and is racist to him and he gets...nothing? okay, he gets a blink and you'll miss it hug. you know how people are always like "has el ever said she liked anything about mike?" and stuff like that? is a single heartfelt lumax moment about lucas and not about max? and i'm not implying max doesn't have as much affection for him or saying he should have done less for her and i totally understand her situation in s4, i'm saying that the writers center max and sideline lucas in his own relationship. when they literally invented lucas first. they don't think about him. it's like @/googoogagaeyes said a few weeks ago:

Anyways, the fact that Mr. Davies "made up more stuff than [he] took from the show," for a character that has existed since S1, should signal that there is a writing problem. Although Lucas is lovely, he is also underwritten. That is the result of the Duffers and the writers room.

and i would love to have faith in them on this topic and to think that It's All Intentional or to let myself hope that they'll do better in season 5 but they won't! and not hoping for it might sound counterproductive because it's like letting them off the hook right, if no one wants white writers to do better how could you expect them to do better, but also i'm just me lmao. they won't do better or they would've done better already.

so yeahh that (black) sttwt user who got jumped by (mostly white) lumax stans DEFINITELY had a point and that incident made me stop seeing lumax stans as "the most peaceful and mature part of the fandom" lol. stans all the same at the end of the day. disregarding valid criticism because you think it's ship hate is crazy. all that to say that yeah, when people look at max, whose most meaningful connection in the show is lucas by a mile and go hm...what about mike? it does come off as "racist without intention". which is how racism tends to manifest unless you're like a white supremacist who proudly admits to being a racist lol. what about mike? while everyone's free to like some dynamics better than others and while lumax, ship so often hailed as the best one of the show, the one without flaws (even if you ignore everything i'm saying, it's not flawless, they're 14-15 and obviously struggling, if they were perfect they wouldn't be interesting), definitely has flaws, most of which can be traced back to the racist writing...looking at them and being like but what if max's most meaningful connection was MIKE, with whom most of her interactions are fights. they're best friends. don't they just NEED to bond, don't they just HAVE to be best friends, woulnd't it be SO GREAT for him to fight to get her back in s5? never mind that she has someone reading at her bedside and hoping she'll wake up any minute whose priority in season 5 is definitely gonna be to get her back. will said mike's the heart of the party so god forbid he's not the most important person in the room at all times. idk, maybe i'm just being mean right now. you're so right in saying that most of the ga would definitely never do this, they'd probably exaggerate their worst moments and say that they hate each other but i couldn't blame them when we see them argue wayyy more than we see them be bffs. because we don't see them being bffs at all.

people thought the writers had forgotten how to write mike and stopped paying attention to his character for a second after volume 2 and then realized that they haven't and that they didn't but they never knew to write lucas with all the complexity, depth and nuance they allow their white characters to have. when mike gets a conformity storyline about queerness it hits because he can technically choose for himself, either pretend to be straight and be miserable or be himself by accepting and admitting that he's queer because it'll make his life harder in a lot of ways but it'll make it worth living. lucas gets a conformity storyline that ends with a banger line, normal's just a raging psychopath. but it's not like lucas can exactly be a racist society's version of normal in the way jason is, right? he can be popular but being black isn't exactly something you can hide. being accused of trying to act white is definitely a thing when black people are seen as betraying their culture in an attempt to succeed in a predominantly white society but that's...not something i'd trust the writers to portray, especially because the thing lucas does to try to blend in, be more popular and lessen the bullying is join the basketball team, which is literally a racial stereotype. his storyline in season 4 leaves a bad taste in my mouth because their version of telling lucas to keep being a himself and a nerd sounds like having him learn to know his place. it's not the intention but him saying he "never should've knocked" literally gives that impression. and while we're on the topic of lucas in season 4, you should definitely read The Antagonism of Blackness in Netflix's Stranger Things, it's a shame this article came out in june of last year because i would have loved to read their thoughts on volume 2.

you would have to be very naive to trust them to do lucas (a character that's been here since day one!) justice, and with the fandom it's kind of like the classic "women are badly written that's why i don't care about any of them" excuse but for black characters instead. imagine this max scenario but instead of her black (ex-)boyfriend who held her as she died being intent on saving her, it's...mike? is just so "racist without intention". what is lucas doing in the meantime. the (byler/mike fans side of the) fandom is definitely not better than the writers in that regard. are fandoms ever better than the writers they love to claim aren't as progressive as them?

[buddiesmutslut]

I saw a post the other day about someone being pissed that people were calling Eddie gay instead of bi only because they couldn't handle more than one bisexual person on a show. Now, I didn't make Eddie gay/demi, he was born that way, BUT it got me thinking, because the whole crew feels very fruity? SO, I want to get your guys' opinions on what you think the rest of the characters are. (JUST the characters. We're not speculating on the actors. We all know this.) I'm going to put mine below & I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts :) These are by vibes only. As a definite demisexual and probable bi woman, idk how great my gaydar is, but sexuality is a spectrum & straight isn't the default, so let's go!!

Bobby - 0% fruity. That is a straight, middle aged white man (affectionate) if I've ever seen one.

Athena - Also straight.

Chim - Chim feels very straight to me, but that scene with the bachelor had me peering at him a little closer, because I've never watched the Bachelor, but it looked like Joey (I think that was the bachelor's name, right? I've never watched a single episode of that show so I have no idea) had been around before, so I couldn't tell if he was like, starstruck, or "Wow that's a pretty boy and it's making me feel things" -struck 😂

Maddie - I don't get many vibes from her either, but I also have a vague fic idea of Madney breaking up in s4/s5 and her ending up with Shannon instead, so idk, maybe she's just unlabeled but somewhere on the spectrum of queerness?

Shannon - Bi vibes

Taylor Kelly - 100% bi, I refuse to hear any other argument.

Lucy Donato - This is a pansexual woman if I've ever seen one, you cannot convince me otherwise. (Also, the most interesting AND likable of Buck's female LI's, argue with the wall. Lucy, they'll never make me hate you bby 🩷💛💙.)

Lena Bokso - Lesbian vibes, for sure. I don't think there was ANY romantic undertones with her and Eddie (Which, I'm not saying that's the only reason I think she's a lesbian. She can like men and not like Eddie. Even if she did, Eddie wasn't in a place to do anything with those feelings, but I saw a post about that pairing recently & wanted to throw my 2 cents in)

May Grant - May also gives off queer vibes, and I've seen other view her as full wlw, but I think she gives off more bi/pan vibes?

Ravi - This man is soommmeee kind of queer that I just cannot put my finger on. I've seen him HC'd as gay, pan, & ace in some way, and I can honestly rock w/ any of the 3 of them. All I know is that he is not a straight man lol.

Albert - Also unsure about him, but if someone were to tell me that he was bi, I could definitely see it. I think that's influenced by the fic that had him, Ravi & May in a throuple, which was genuinely so cute.

Ana - Dr. Flores doesn't give off queer vibes for me, but that could be bc she was criminally underdeveloped & we know practically nothing about her.

Natalia - See above ^^

Ali Martin - Same ^^ although I could see her just being queer and not being more specific than that. Maybe she's straight, who knows. I literally forgot about her until I was looking up actor/actress names 😂

M*risol - straight & homophobic lmfao

Abby - Literally could not care less about her, but I wanted to include her so I could talk about her possibly being Tommy Kinard's ex-girlfriend and her coming back to LA for whatever reason and finding her ex-boyfriends happy & having totally forgotten about her predatory ass.

Also, obviously not speculating about any of the children, bc they're still children, even if they're fictional. It's icky.

I think that's all the main/reoccurring characters that we don't already know about, let me know if I missed any.

Talk about being the gay firefighter show, how accurate lmfao.

[thepandalion]

anyways so last week we finished season 4 of house md

I can admit to crying in those final episodes

Also this kinda ruined my werewolf au. Because now my babies are fighting and I can't quite reconcile that with what I have of my au.

So. Multiple ideas:

Amber is a vampire. She survives, but when Wilson decides that her miraculous recovery means he should tell her that he's a werewolf, she reveals that actually vampires and werewolves don't go well together for dating (which uhh. Is a bit of a problem bc I'm pretty sure there's a bit where they think cuddy wants to date wilson and wwwau cuddy is also a vampire). So she breaks up with him and is still alive and they're just broken up

Amber still dies. Wilson forgives house faster than canon bc while he was about to let Amber in on werewolf stuff he didn't yet, so she's not pack while house IS pack, so I'm just ignoring all those parts of s5 for the sake of my boys and nothing else

Amber dies but now she's been pack?? House is also upset because they've now both been Wilson's people and while he might not have liked Amber he respected the fact thay wilson did and sorta respected Amber as a person too. They're not mad at each other but still get time apart. Wilson has a character arc where he goes to meet some wolves in the forest and tells them about how one of his humans got another one killed and effectively does werewolf therapy with this older werewolf (who will later come in and find human wilson because in this version good things can't happen and older werewolf has cancer and is dying). House would come up to wilson in that period when Wilson left in canon and go "I get it if u don't wanna be pack anymore and go be with other wolves in the forest like uve been doing for months now - yeah I know abt that btw" and wilson would just. Break. Bc wtf do you mean "don't wanna be pack" of course he still wants to be pack. He just needs time alone for a sec.

A universe where season 4 happened but Amber and Wilson aren't dating. Still got the new fellows but wilson is still woefully single and Amber goes to work at like. Mercy or something. Idc. Just means she doesn't die. But house might :3 because the bus very much did still crash in this version

Just. Ignore season 4 entirely. Didn't happen cannot touch me. Foreman did quit and idk maybe cameron too. Chase didn't really get fired so much so as he got promoted. He's got a small office near wilsons and he runs the magical medicine department where they treat magic people, which includes werewolves and vampires but also like. Just people practicing magic. Because chase is one of those in this au. He eats rocks and I do have a case in mind where a seer running a magical ingredients shop gets saved by him and she gives him some really cool stuff to do magic with and after that it becomes custom for patients to hand in small magical artifacts to their doctors if they're treated by the magic ppl. One of those patients accidentally fuels chases addiction to eating shiny rocks. There's a silly intervention. Anyways there's gonna be new fellows to replace those three and they might be the same fellows but also maybe not. Because I'm not sure if foreman can keep his job at mercy this time around. So I can have taub replace him in the sceptic position (but this time with the mild spicy interest of "well ok, say that vampires exist. Why do we believe our patient is one just because they say so? Everyone lies after all" and stuff). Thirteen is gonna be. Some type of creature probably. So's kutner but his vibes are just murky enough that I'm stuck in the like ??? Phase of "is he magic or just neurodiverse"

Help. Legit cannot decide between these

[will80sbyers]

ppl here are stressed or worried about mike's sexuality meanwhile I am more worried about other things. at the end of the day, mike's sexuality could just stay as 'unlabelled', he'd just be portrayed as 'queer' overall and it'd be fine in itself.

but there's other topics that i am worried about;

1- max's coma situation, she's now portrayed as brain dead. and i worry abt how its gonna handled. maybe an unpopular opinion, but i wouldn't like it if max is brought back and then is completely healed without having permanent damage on her body. it's a hard topic to be addressed and I'm worried how it's gonna appear.

2- lucas and erica's storylines, some scenes in S4 were too much triggering, but i have little to no hope that they will be addressed. and i am not sure if the writers learned or realized the writing in that and how it came off as... so idk.

3- dustin's whole eddie grief situation. i get that the duffers intended to give dustin a more personal loss and depression/grief, but i wouldn't want it to be dustin's whole story arc or a major story focus for him.

4- will's whole character, he has too much under addressed issues from s1 due to his upside down experiences, or his possession (which was f-ed up), his internalized homophobia, overall i am not sure how they're gonna deal with all of that esp his supernatural plot.

5- i wouldnt want jncy to be underwhelming, but i am not sure if the duffers are gonna continue teasing stncy or not. i think it is very reductive to jon and nancy's characters and relationship, as well as unnecessary to steve's own character.

I don't care too tbh I am just saying what I think is happening when I talk about Mike being bi, I'm not saying it because I like it more, it's just how I interpreted stuff in the show but he could be gay too and I would be happy if he ends up with Will and is happy at the end of the show and I'm repeating this same thing since day one... the only annoying thing to me is constantly having people tell me that I'm making drama just because I'm sharing an opinion or a theory about bi Mike... the tag is for ALL of us not only gay mike believers 😅

For the rest of the stuff

1) I think maybe Max is not going to be able to walk anymore or she could be blind to one eye, I don't think she will be completely healed but I think she will come back to Lucas!

2) sadly I agree with you on this, I'm not sure they will handle Lucas and Erica as well as they should... I can only hope they have listened to the feedback online, they are usually open to criticism and they are open to listen to the input of others so I hope they will do the same for this matter

3) I think Dustin is going to want revenge for Eddie, maybe? I'm not sure but I think they have to focus on that because what Dustin lived through marked him forever sadly :(

4) I have faith they will deal with that in a good way because they are building Will's character arc since before season 1 even started!

5) I personally right now think Jonathan is probably dying in s5 so Idk what to think about Nancy's finale... I think jancy is going to end in tragedy but I really hope not and I hope that even if jancy doesn't happen she just focuses on her career after and not Steve...

@cluelessbees told me a nice idea about Steve's arc for s5, basically the ides is that he's going to focus on his platonic relationships next season and be a support for Dustin's arc and Robin's and maybe he's going to feel guilty because if he went with Max instead of going with Nancy (because he likes her) maybe things would be different now, if he had accepted being the babysitter maybe Max wouldn't be in a coma?

[the-real-dev]

more thoughts about the lmk and hollow knight au thing because im going insane rn.

ANYWAYS LET'S ASSIGN ROLES 😇

- the pale king is. obviously. wukong

- the hollow knight could work for MANY different people:

1. MK. He must either contain the ink or his monkey form

2. Macaque. He must contain LBDs possession / influence <- she works really well as the radiance

3. Mei. She must contain the samhadi fire (is that how you spell it?)

4. HELL even Syntax works for this... he has to contain the venom,, spider queen as the radiance,,

5. RED. SON. same thing as Mei w the fire :3

6. MAYOR. YEAH. LBDS WHOLE THING.

7. you know what even Bai He or whatever her name is 😭 so many people to be sacrifices this is crazy

there are probably more that I'm missing but that's my Potential Hollow Knight list

- the knight/ghost could ALSO work as the characters i listed above... ex. mei as the ghost and red son as hollow, mk as the ghost and macaque as hollow, mayor as hollow and syntax as ghost... they're super interchangeable!! these could all work vice-versa too. also if mk was the ghost, then instead of the void it'd either be his monkey form or ink mk. mei / red son would have the fire, etc.

- hornet... if the ghost is mei or mk then it'd probably be red son otherwise ive got no idea 😭

- tang could (possibly??) work as quirrel. either that or cornifer HAHA

- no idea who sly could be tbh

- grimm. Oh Boy. could work as the samhadi fire if you're not using that as the infection already, plus it already fits him,, perhaps he'd be red son (evil red son. consider.) i don't know how the grimchild would work for this though 😭 but dw it's okay i am going to mess around w their roles a tad if this ever becomes and actual au

- idk who the white lady is too actually... she isn't that relevant (?) to the overall plot. i think. i should play hk again jeez

- godseeker. no idea. no one in lmk really seeks out the gods, maybe that'll change in s5 though

- if macaque was hollow, then mayor would probably be the seer

- the dreamers would probably be the 3 rings instead if red son or mei was hollow

- if hollow was anyone other than mei or red son (as mentioned above), the pilgrims would probably be the dreamers (so that tang can do the whole quirrel thing if tripitaka/tang sanzang is in monomon's place) I'm not too sure about how we'd fit ao lie into this though because there's only 3 dreamers 😭

im missing a TON more characters but this post is getting way too long and im sleepy... feel free to leave suggestions and stuff in the tags or comments ^_^

[endiness]

just some speculation about how i think the last two seasons might break down. (contains both book and s4/s5 spoilers.)

~

i think chances are that ciri's storyline in s4 will be her time with the rats (beginning-mid season) then bonhart (mid-late season) then escaping from him and healing with vysogota before getting revenge (late season) and i think it is highly likely that the season will end with her teleporting. (i think the table read might've disproved me on this, but if i were showrunner, i'd start off with ciri recovering with vysogota and telling him about her time with the rats and bonhart through flashbacks. but if that were true, vysogota would've probably been at the table read. which afaik he wasn't. so. this probably isn't what the show is doing.) (unless! dun dun dun! stribog is also vysogota. which could happen as the RI summary of his character sounds like he's a time travelling storyteller which. idk, the show could use him in vysogota's place especially if ciri gets to tell her story like in the books and it'd be a cool parallel and 'full circle' moment with nimue.) and then as for s5, i'd think the beginning would revolve around her trapped in the aen elle world and everything that happens there before escaping sometime mid-season and then have at least an episode of time travelling, universe hopping adventures before she lands in stygga and the end of the book happens. (alternatively: end s4 with her getting revenge and declaring herself a witcher and start s5 off with her teleporting and then everything else i said happens.)

as for geralt, i'd think the beginning of s4 season would be the hansa slowly forming and travelling together (including introducing angouleme as there are rumors she'll be in this season), mid-late season would be refugee camp (imo if angouleme is introduced this season, i think it could happen here with her taking the place of the woman they rescue from being persecuted) and northern army camp and subsequent escape, and the season will probably end with the yaruga battle and geralt being knighted by meve. (given location spoilers, i also think it is quite possible that geralt's scene with avallac'h will take place this season too.) now, s5 is where i'm a bit unsure of what exactly the show will adapt and how because, honestly, a lot of stuff that happens with geralt in ttots is just... not that plot relevant imo and could easily be cut or adjusted especially given other changes the show has already made. like. i don't particularly see the show adapting geralt and the hansa escorting the caravan at all. or the spy storyline, at least as is, as i think it is extremely unlikely that the show will have yennefer falling into vilgefortz hands anytime before mid-late s5. so. maybe it'll be something like early season they're going to toussaint to find the druids which could help them find ciri only to be hunted down because they're being tracked (possibly through fringilla because of cahir? maybe somehow istredd?) and then that problem gets solved but the druids don't know where ciri is anyway and then mid season is toussaint and late season is travelling to stygga, stygga itself, and all the endgame book events.

and as far as yennefer goes… this is also where i feel like i can't quite speculate on what the show will do, either, as it's changed a lot and i think there are definitely storylines that the show is just not going to adapt, like the whole jade statue thing. (tbh if any character gets an equivalent of that 'arc,' it'll probably be istredd.) but that being said, i think yennefer will probably spend most of the season doing lodge stuff and searching for ciri until the end of the season at which point i think philippa will probably do something to push her out and take over. imo, given that the show does adhere to book canon despite whatever changes and additions it makes, i think it'll probably be because of philippa framing her or at least doing something to turn the lodge against her, likely due to her loyalty to ciri above all else, at which point either yennefer will be a fugitive or at least she'll be on the outs with the lodge and will probably seek refuge in skellige. and then i can see s5 for yennefer being looking for ciri (and probably investigating pavetta and duny's deaths and finding out thingsTM 'cause i feel like the show is not gonna do a last minute reveal like the books did lol) before ultimately winding up in vilgefortz's hands sometime around mid-late s5. and then it's stygga for probably at least an ep before geralt and ciri show up there and then reuniting with them and endgame book stuff.

i do have some other crack theories about things, but as far as 'realistic' speculation goes about the main characters, this is what i think makes the most sense.

[fandsart]

Oh, absolutely. Nancy needs to work on her people skills because she's really bad at those. I would love for Murray to call her out, but every time a character does that, the narrative in Stranger Things punishes said character because Nancy is always right.

I agree with all your points. Also, in s3, it was a summer internship, and Nancy acted like she was a fully employed reporter there. Jonathan saying she should have managed her expectations was the truth, and I hate how much shit he gets from the fandom for that.

Nancy is more of a detective she thrives with investigating and following clues. Her need to be constantly right is what's motivating her, not wanting to tell a good story. She also lacks creativity she needs to have to spin a good story. Like Robin coming up with her little backstory or thinking outside the box in the library, which helped them so much in the overall plot. As for Steve's essay, I talked to someone who works as a teacher, and they were like Steve's essay was fine a bit choopy and definitely in need of tuning. Nancy overreacted by saying it's not cohesive or doesn't make sense. It was clear Steve used a metaphor, and if Nancy isn't able to see that, idk if she's good at writing. I'm not saying she is stupid, I just feel like she isn't passionate enough to improve her writing skills but is rather focused on solving mysteries.

I honestly see her working in the police force, it's a better conclusion to her arc because the police failed Barb so she's now making sure that won't happen to other families. Maybe she should team up with Hopper in s5, that would be interesting.

I was going to bring up the fact the narrative punishes characters who question her. Well, really I was had a sentence written out that said "The only reason Nancy is always right is because she has to be the girlbossiest, but most of the time she really should be wrong" but I didn't want to make the commentary too meta. I already had so much down about it, so I didn't expand past that and just deleted it.

I think it's interesting to compare her hunches to Joyce's, because the way they play out is similar but different. Nancy is always presented as being right about something that everyone else just denies, even though it's right in front of them (very Don't Look Up). Whereas Joyce always happens to notice really weird things which make sense to question, but people always question her perception of the events because what she's claiming to experience seems unreal. Nancy has to be in conflict around the obvious so she seems like she's, idk, prosecuted a little about it.

People make fun of her for thinking there could be a story to be written, which doesn't make a lot of sense. In real life I feel like it would make more sense for the professionals to stare blankly at her for her suggestions and then ignore her, which can also work for a narrative, but it has to be exaggerated (there's a similar issue with how El is bullied in season 4. These aren't things that really tend to happen) so these professional business men bully Nancy for trying to do their jobs for them badly. I think it would have been more realistic for them to just be like "Let the professionals deal with this" but we have to be on Nancy's side about it, so it has to be undeniable that they're prejudice and condescending, which they can be, while also being right. But the duffers can't have anyone being like "That's a good point" to a point against Nancy, because that might make it obvious that Nancy isn't actually the best person to prove their first wave feminist point

I do like the idea of Nancy being a cop. I hadn't considered it before. I'm really big on acab, but narratively it does make sense for her, and it makes sense as a line of logic, and how else is she gonna use her gun skills in regular life in a way that she would really be down for. Most shows I'm more hesitant to be like "This character should be a cop" because, seriously, acab, but with this show I obviously already have to come to terms with Hopper being a cop, and it could be cool for him to take her under his wing in that area

[addysfandomdump]

This might be a little bit of a ~spicy take~, or not idk, but a lot of the teammates in Coroika, especially the ones on major teams like Blue Team, the S5, Team Emperor and the X-Blood, feel like backup dancers for the leaders rather than actual characters with their own unique personalities. A lot of female characters in particular are often just background fodder or sometimes just a genderbent version of a male teammate. I get that it's a boy's manga, but boys deserve kickass female characters just as much as girls do.

Edit: removed Omega's section since I made a very uninformed take there. Sorry.

Blue Team especially suffer from this. Headphones and Bobble, as much as I love them, really do just feel like girl versions of Glasses and Goggles in the manga. Headphones especially I feel is given the least significant development out of the four. She doesn't feel all that different from Glasses. They have practically the same character roles in the group: the straightmen who react to the funnymen. They even have the same reactions 80% of the time!

There are ways to have them keep the same role and still do it differently. The Headphones in my mind is more assertive and stern than Glasses. She is the tired eldest sister trying to keep the rest of her unruly siblings in line. She contrasts Glasses' "what the shell!? why are you doing that!? stop!" with a more confident "you better cut that out right now or you're going in timeout." With the authority she seems to have, you'd think she was the leader of Blue Team lol (actually... that would be a cool idea... we haven't really seen any female leaders in the manga, have we? apart from the School Cardigans). She is the team's rock who keeps them grounded and focused.

Bobble is a less severe case I think. She seems less scatterbrained and more mischievous than Goggles. In my mind, Goggles creates unintentional chaos while Bobble is intentionally chaotic. She does whatever makes the joke funny I think. She also imitates her friends a lot, usually imitating Goggles the most.

Practically all the teammates on the S5 suffer this fate the worst. They get little to no characterization and mostly just exist to fill out the team. They often just feel like watered-down versions of the leader. The later Splat2 teams suffer this case a little less I think. More teammates are given more unique personalities, like Half-Rim's dryness balancing out Gloves' overconfidence, Double Egg's arrogance and Red Sole's slightly unhinged personality.

Also never going to forgive how Nana was handled, she should've been accompanying Hachi and Goggles and kicking ass. Also I don't think Blue Teams should've gotten involved in Octo Expansion, it feels too crowded with them there. In general, Justice for the Female Coroika Characters.

Once again, though, female characters are still left in the dust most of the time with N-Pacer. N-Pacer looks so regal and cool, and maybe there's a bonus chapter I'm missing but she does absolutely fuck nothing in the story apart from being the sniper on Emperor's team. Going off of appearance and vibes alone, I read her with a Blaze the Cat/Satsuki Kiryuin type personality: regal, independent, ruthless, a commanding presence to be respected. She is Emperor's closest confidante, quick and precise in doling out her orders.

I'm not saying every single character needs to go through a complex arc— the story would get too crowded and cluttered otherwise. I'm saying give them some semblance of a personality that isn't just a watered-down version of the "important character." It can be the most basic shit, just make them feel like they're an actual character living in an actual world.

[faithlesbian]

can we get ur thoughts on ftm!spike x mtf!angel (they're both butchqueer)

this is going to be way more in depth and serious than you probably hoped for so, sorry in advance

ppl who know me know i rarely consider pairings in a vacuum, i've got narratives and character arcs to think about which makes this ask Very interesting!! i think me and @titsgirlbuffy once joked that spike is transmasc bc he transed from one masculinity to a different masculinity, so considering him as ftm opens a whole new angle to that take. was he living as a man when he was alive? did he know who he was but stayed in the closet until he got turned and decided well, nothing can stop him now? did he slowly figure it out over decades of marauding the globe with Dru? i think that last one could intersect really well with the Trans Angel Reading in which he is Very closeted, bc if spike wasn't out when angel last saw him a century ago, their reunion in school hard would be even funnier while also probably making angel confront at least a few things. an ftm reading of spike would also interact in Ways with how he views and treats women, but that's honestly a whole nother can of worms so lets not be here all day. i think in general tho this reading of spike gives SO much weight to lines like "i know that i'm a monster, but you treat me like a man", "(the chip) won't let me be a monster, and i can't be a man", "to be the kind of man who... to be a kind of man" like that's what we're here for, that's what its About! i also think it lends an interesting aspect to how spike gets along with women as friends a lot better than he does with men if by the time he started living as a man he was already a vampire and therefore cut off from normal society, never learning how to be "one of the boys" except maybe from angel who, as we know, is not a normal example of anything

i'm not gonna cover my thoughts on mtf angel bc we all know them by now. im literally tumblr user transangelus. in the context of ftm spike tho i think mtf angel becomes a lot funnier given their constant rivalry from btvs s2 onwards -- im pretty sure me and @titsgirlbuffy reckoned spike would be Delighted by angel coming out bc it finally proves who's the better man. on that note tho as much as i fucking love their dynamic, i have no idea if they could actually be "together" in isolation. like as part of the polycule they were obviously fucking on the regular and doing erotic joint murders and the like, but idk if in the present with both of them having souls and trying to be better people that a relationship would be possible. it's like when darla was brought back as a human and her and angel spent like, five minutes together in actual understanding before dru showed up and killed her. with the sheer extent of baggage between centuries-old murderers, i think it's hard to disentangle from the worst versions of themselves they were together and what they did to eachother in the past in order to have a relationship that's not gonna implode messily within months at best (despite the fact they're always clearly desperate to fuck eachother). that being said i haven't actually seen ats s5 all the way through and what i did watch, i don't remember -- so maybe i'll eat my words!!

[willel]

Seeing your post about Joyce making Will's clothes and Willel makes me so sad because I just know half of s5 is gonna be about the ships and love triangles and it's so frustrating because I know the stuff we do get will just get buried under ship wars and complaining. I don't care what happens (honestly I'd rather neither Mileven or Byler be endgame at this point) cause no matter what, the "losing" side will use every possible chance to kill a vibe and the "winning" side will just be insufferably smug, it's like a lose lose situation for me lol

Love triangles never work in shows like this. If stranger things was a teen drama, I'm all for shipping and ship wars but for a show so heavy on the plot, having constant romantic drama makes no sense and takes away time we could spend with the actual supernatural aspect idk :/ There's just soooo much more I want explored than Will and El having deep introspective conversations with only Mike again for the 5th season straight

-sigh- Same anon. Same.

I don't think anyone understands how much I am DREADING all the romantic drama next season. I really might just die next season if all my family feels are buried under characters bickering about their romantic feelings. I'm just tired.

I feel like there's so much more to see and understand about these characters but it always get boiled down to who loves who romantically. WHY

Maybe I wouldn't be so tired and bothered if the fandom weren't filled with people fighting about ships day in and day out. Not only that, they sometimes attack the familial bonds because they see them as threats. It's so goddamn annoying and almost impossible to avoid at this point. It's EVERYWHERE

There was another thing I wanted to add to that post but I forgot.

There are some people under the impression that people who care about WillEl (such as myself) only care because of ships (as if that makes sense). That we push Will and El together as siblings to either get in the way of a ship or to support a ship. That caring about WillEl is a recent development. That people only pretend to care because they've become step siblings. That because they don't have as much screen time as the romantic drama, their relationship is worthless an non-existent. That people try to push Will onto El because they think Will should be the main character or some crap.

NO.

WillEl has been around since the beginning. Sure, I didn't hop into ST until 2017 but even when I got here, I remember there was at least one prominent person in this fandom pointing out some of the WillEl things I had been thinking about since I binged season 1 and season 2 (then I started posting my own things under this username and voila)

People don't push Will and El together because they're siblings now. People don't care about them because of ships.

Will and El have a CONNECTION. They've had it from the getgo. Even the actors noticed and understand it. It's always been there!

El RECOGNIZED WILL IN A PICTURE!!! To our knowledge, she has never met or seen Will in her entire life but as soon as she laid her eyes on him she was stricken with recognition. WHY, AREN'T THEY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT???

Don't they ask themselves how Will and El were able to speak to each other in the Upside Down when El has only been able to do that with her mom and possessed Billy???

How about the weird parallels of when El is in the picture, Will is not and when Will is in the picture, El is not??? Or a lot of their scenes being mirrored especially from season 2 onward???

Haven't they questioned what El "saw" about Will when she saved everyone at the Byers house before Joyce or anyone told her a goddamn thing about what was happening???

Can they not feel the connection these two have whenever the topic of the Upside Down enters the conversation??? Have they not seen the constant quiet glances between the two of them whenever something fishy is going on???

Like, of course there could be MORE and I've always wanted more, but these burning questions have been swimming around our part of the fanbase for years and years while they were on the other side only caring about their ships.

And hey, if that's all they care about in a series like this, you do you. Maybe the plot and the supernatural connections just don't interest you and hey, that happens! We've all seen the Star Wars shipping wars after all even though it's supposed to be a sci-fi space adventure.

But I need answers! I love theories!!! And most of all, I LOVE FAMILY FEELS.

If being a shipper in a fandom is your thing, then please do! ... But why oh why do they turn around and try and degrade all these adorable heartfelt platonic and supernatural relationships? I just don't understand it.

Most of all, why the heck the Duffers write it in in the first place. Man. Love triangles are the bane of tv shows (That I don't even watch just know about second hand)

The only love triangles I approve of is Hopper-Joyce-Bob and Lucas-Max-Dustin. Those were tame. To be honest, I'm surprised the fandom isn't shitting itself fighting over Lucas-Max-Dustin, how did the Duffers pull that off? They need to do that again.