#literally the best ship in the show other than maybe byler

[sinclairstarz]

I’m not a huge elmaxer but I do think it’s fairly cute and whatever, but… if u ship elmax and dont ship lumax…..! idk there seems to be a trend of ignoring a well written, super cute and enjoyable mixed/poc m/f ship in favor of a bland, mega whatever they-touched-once white on white queer ship, under the pretense that you can just be like “oh i just dont like m/f ships theyre boring” :/ like. lumax is so much more interesting than elmax im sorry, elmax is cute and i think el probably had a crush on max at somepoint, but the lumax dynamic, “do you accept the risk”, “I like talking with you, stalker.”, “i disappeared / no you didnt, i just didn’t look hard enough”, “movie friday?”, just everything about them will always beat elmax?? its weird so many of you are so quick to ship el and max and put them alongside byler (ignoring the canon byler/lumax parallels and double date!) claiming that m/f ships are boring and queer ones are better, while ships like byclair or henclair are rarely talked about by the same crowd. it smells like racism!

[cringengl]

The two van scenes- Steve's self centered 'love' versus Will's selfless love.

The thing that I've only realised upon rewatch is the similarities between Steve's love confession to Nancy in 4x08 and Will's love confession to Mike, also in 4x08 (aka the van scene). Although we usually use parallels to show how similar the ships are, suggesting that they may have similar fates (such as jancy & byler parallels and mleven & stncy parallels), I think these two scenes are similar to show how different stncy and byler are.

So what are the similarities???

First off we have the fact that they take place in the same episode (roughly 25 mins apart) and exsist in a van. There's other similarities such as they both have a "Yeah?" "Yeah." scene:

Which really draws the parallels. Furthermore, both Mike and Nancy feel like they're losing El and Jonathan.

Although Mike confirms these fears more explicitly than Nancy, it's clear that her and Jonathan are drifting apart when neither of them go to visit eachother over spring break, which clearly upsets Nancy. Jonathan's college plans only confirm for the audience that they are drifting apart.

Finally, both Steve and Will give a 'gift' of sorts: Will's painting, and Steve's vision of his future (that he implies he wants Nancy to be a part of).

Will's love for Mike is selfless and generous.

The whole point of the van scene is that Will sacrifices and disregards his happiness as he believes that Mike would be happier with someone else- El, and so he uses his love confession to strengthen their (mleven's) relationship.

Steve literally does the opposite of this.

Steve's love confession is all about him. What he wants. He wants 6 little nuggets and a massive camper van for holidays and that's great for him, but it's not what Nancy wants. Steve is not considering what Nancy wants. It has been shown multiple times throughout the show that Nancy is ambitious and wants a career in journalism. It's what drives her to the trailer park where she learns about Victor Creel and it's why she wants to go to Emerson. I'm not saying that you can't be ambitious and have children, but children is clearly not a priority for Nancy. She literally says it right here:

Showing the difference in Steve and Will's love for their respective Wheeler. Whilst Steve is enforcing unwanted expectation onto Nancy, Will is doing the opposite- "ripping off the bandaid".

Even when Will envisions a future with Mike and tells him, it involves things that they have bonded over and enjoyed in the past together:

Will also gets Mike to talk to him, and share his insecurities. They have several other heart to hearts throughout the season where both Mike and Will talk honestly with eachother, whether that's about Mike's issues with El, being different and how scary it can be to tell other people and working together against Vecna.

Stncy at best has Steve talking about how he is crawling forward and working to be a better person, but not only is that in an effort to somewhat win Nancy back, Nancy never divulges her insecurities with Steve, their 'heart to heart' isn't mutal.

If we go back to the "Yeah?" "Yeah." parallel, you can see that's it's less of a parallel than you may originally think. The person who's asking "Yeah?" Is reversed in these situations, with stncy, it's the 'confessor', Steve, trying to see if Nancy agrees with him, but with byler, Will is instead the "Yeah.", and is helping Mike overcome his insecurities with El, and reaffirming Mike's new found confidence through Will's painting. Steve is again revolving the conversation around himself, where as Will is being as selfless as you can get.

Although it can be argued that maybe stncy isn't having as many heart to hearts and that the reason Nancy isn't responding similarly to Steve being vulnerable just yet is because they're exes, it's awkward, and Nancy is dating Jonathan.

But at the start of season 4, we see that byler are also in a rocky position in terms of their relarionship and Mike is literally dating El.

And yet, time and time again, we as the audience are shown how strong their relationship is and how much they care about repairing it, whereas stncy has had no such thing.

So what is the point of paralleling these van/confession scenes in the first place??

Personally, I think it's to show how pure and selfless Will's love for Mike is compared to Steve's, and what it's like for a confession to fall flat.

The byler van scene is full of beautiful cinematography, rising music, gorgeous lighting and powerful emotion, whereas in the stncy van scene, you can still here the rumbling of the van and the song 'Fire And Rain' by James Taylor, which presumably is from the radio, in the background whilst Nancy hesitantly agrees with what Steve is saying, making it feel less important and almost anti climatic.

Therefore, despite the initial, surface level similarities, these scenes show how vastly different byler and stncy are. Stncy will never be endgame because Steve's love is presented as self centered, whereas Will's love is beautiful and selfless. Byler is endgame as both Will's confession and Mike's reaction are telling of how strong their connection is and how deeply they love each other.

[homosexualbehaviors]

Welcome to my Blog

This is simply a post to let you know the fandoms I am in/the ships I ship. And to maybe get to know a bit about me.

*NOTE: If you have any questions about me or my fandoms or ships, please do not fear to ask. I will answer literally anything! (Nsft included)*

Fandoms and Ships

(The ships with "(#1)" by them are my top ship of that fandom. I have only marked such in fandoms I have listed multiple ships.)

Wednesday: Wenclair (#1), Yokovina, Yoko Divina and Bianca (I am unsure of the ship name)

Stranger Things: Ronance (#1), Elmax, Steddie, Byler

Pitch Perfect: Bechloe (#1), Staubrey

Arcane: Caitvi

She-Ra: Catradora

Adventure Time: Bubbline

Hawkeye: Bishova

The Owl House: Lumity (#1), Raeda, Huntlow

Heartstopper: Nick and Charlie (#1), Tara and Darcy, Tao and Elle

The Harley Quinn Show: Harlivy

The 100: Clexa

Atypical: Cazzie

Orange is the New Black: Vauseman

Dickinson: Emisue

Glee: Brittana

Euphoria: Rulez

One Day at a Time: Sydlena

Shameless: Gallavich

13 Reasons Why: Hannah and Clay (though I prefer to talk about this show as a whole, more than focusing on a ship)

Other shows/movies I enjoy

Modern Family

The Big Bang Theory

Wentworth

Grey's Anatomy

Everything Sucks

I Am Not Okay With This

Sex Education

The Fear Street movies

Every movie with Jenna Ortega in it

The Edge of Seventeen

(If I have listed a fandom but not a ship and you'd still like to ask something about it, please feel free, I am still open to answering! You may also ask about a fandom not listed, if I know of it, I will try my best to answer!)

About me

Hello, my name is August. You may refer to me as such. I am 18 years of age. I am Trans FTM/Trans Masc, as well as Omni. My pronouns are He/They. And I am autistic. The main Ship/Fandom I am in is Wenclair/Wednesday. My top three ships are Wenclair, Ronance and Bechloe. Most of my ships are Sapphic (This is not meant in a weird way, I just find them to be cute and they hold my interest.). Besides being delusional about my ships, I enjoy Reading (fanfiction and poetry), Writing (fanfiction and poetry as well) and Drawing (mainly 'horror' art) in my free time. As well as listening to music. My favorite musician is Billie Eilish. I have been a fan since the beginning. She means a lot to me. Anyhow, that is all I have about me for now. If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read this <3

Agian, if you have any questions about me or my fandoms or ships, please do not fear to ask. I will answer literally anything!

Here's a pretty flower, for you 🥀

Have a nice day, beautiful human 🖤

[kiirotoao]

07/07/2023: Happy Byler Day!

In celebration, here’s a countdown list of my top 7 Byler details/moments!

7. Eggs and syrup (s1e1 and s3e1)

This detail is pretty easily overlooked, especially considering that it’s present for only two blinks throughout the show, but it’s one of my favorites. In fact, this detail was one of the first Byler facts that got me to ship Byler. The representation of the unconventional breakfast pairing for the show’s quote-unquote unconventional relationship pairing is just too perfect. I love this silent emphasis of their queerness together.

6. At it again (s3e5)

I don’t have a proper title for this moment, haha, but I can quote this scene from memory and just. Have to say it along with Byler. Every single time I rewatch 😭. The drama. The shouted whispers. Mike’s idiocy. Will’s sass. It’s glorious. It’s beautiful. And, best of all, it hurts way less than the rain scene, which is a win for me. Also, I love how these two fought really badly literally a day ago, but then they come around to arguing like a true married couple again because they can’t help but gravitate to one other.

5. “Crazy together” (s2e2)

Ah, the Byler staple. Now, this scene got me to put Byler on my radar when I first watched the show, so I have to give it a top 7 spot, for sure. Also, just, this scene is so tender and sweet. What a lovely way to show how sometimes the best relationships are made through sharing the worst times in your life. It really does help to have someone to confide in through awful situations, and this scene heartwarmingly highlights that. Additionally, their youth and innocence taking on this trauma together is what gets me every single time. Byler are so strong for each other, and it shines so brightly, here. It’s plain endearing.

4. The heart-to-heart apology (s4e4)

This scene is literally the pinnacle of Byler’s unspoken love, and the flirtation is off the charts. It’s just so, so lovely, and the atmosphere is simply wonderful and fit to make you forget you’re watching a thriller show. The flirting itself is all that I need to spotlight for this scene, and truly, I don’t have to say anything about it, do I? This moment just speaks for itself.

3. The shed scene (s2e8)

When making this list, I was torn between 3 and 4, but I ended up putting the shed scene at the top 3 because Mike’s speech here absolutely wrecked me the first time I watched it. The tears, the transparency, the traction despite Will being unable to utter a word in reply. I also just made a kinda long-winded grammatical analysis on the phrase above: “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” and how soft and adorable it is to say, and I cannot describe how close to tears I was, too, when watching this scene, like Will was. How often do you hear your best friend pleading for your life by talking about how you changed theirs? This moment is so sweet.

This moment is also somewhat unprompted, drawn from the rawest recollection of Mike’s mind, coupled with the desperation, it brings out how truly important this moment is for Mike. And the fact that this speech seems to prompt Will’s Morse code tapping makes it all the better for us to know that Mike’s message was very likely received. This scene is simply so tender. It is Mike and Will in their most exposed forms all season long, maybe even ever, for Mike (because I think that the van scene might be Will’s, but let’s not worry about that right now, this is a happy post 🙈).

2. “Not possible.” (s3e8)

I wish I was exaggerating when I say that Mike’s little smile in this scene changed my brain forever. Well, maybe I don’t care that I wasn’t exaggerating, actually. This scene is unapologetically adorable. It’s not as flirtatious as the s4e4 heart-to-heart apology, not as lengthy as the “crazy together” scene, not as clearly pivotal as the s1 opener, but it’s chock full of implicit love.

I love how Mike and Will communicate through dnd, particularly how they talk about the game differently apart from other Party members, and that’s the kicker that I love about this scene. Usually, Mike especially as we’ve seen throughout seasons 1-3, dnd is referenced with a sense of leadership about the Upside Down, used as a tool for knowledge with others. But between Mike and Will, here? They use it as a tool for their relationship, which is such a wonderful contrast to show how much Mike and Will mean to each other. And what’s more, Mike brings up this analogy, first, singling out Will and how special he is to Mike.

“What if you join another party?” It’s a simple question, and at face value, it sounds like, ‘what if you find another friend group without me? What if you move on?’ Which I think it is asking, but it’s also, ‘what if you move on from me?’ And Will’s quick and faithful reply, “not possible” is all we need to hear to know that Will is going to carry Mike’s love with him no matter what. Topped with cute glances each other’s way and a quickly leaving Will to let the emotion wordlessly simmer, this tiny flirt holds my heart.

1. The season-episode parallels

If this detail looks familiar, it’s because I’ve talked about this one before. And, yeah, looking at it a lot more over the past year, I gotta say that it’s my favorite thing about Byler.

It is such an interesting detail, and basically, it’s the way that the episodes of s1e1, s2e2, s3e3, and s4e4 all have pertinent Byler moments, arguably the most important Byler moments per season that kickstart a lot of the show, and every single scene has so many little details that they share. Mike on the left, Will on the right. Will’s honesty, Mike’s unawareness. The clothing. The alternating lighting. It’s been my favorite parallel to talk about on all platforms I’m active on, and so I crown this one as my winner. It’s such a loaded parallel, and it’s everything in my niche that I love to talk about as it covers so much of the show and Byler, from the bigger details of how it affects the show down to the smaller details of lighting, clothing, and coloring.

And also, this parallel inspired me to make my TikTok account and dedicate it to Byler. Then one thing led to another, and so this detail is kinda the reason why I’m here on Tumblr, too. So I owe it a lot, haha.

The season-episode parallel reminds me that I’m not alone or ‘looking into it too much,’ and even if this is all a coincidence, it’s a damn good one.

Thanks for reading, and Happy Byler Day, again! Now, go forth and enjoy more posts!

[runninguplenorahills]

What's the most convincing proof that byler could be endgame (at least on mike's end)? My friend keeps talking about mileven and saying byler's unrealistic and that it's stupid and weird and I'm ripping my hair out because now Im starting to think I'm delusional, and I'm losing hope. help.

First and foremost I think you should maybe ask your friend why exactly they think it’d be unrealistic because while that is generally a worthless argument, in this case it’s also not even true. Just because mainstream media back then didn’t portray queer people and queer people getting their happy ending does not mean that they didn’t exist! Queer people have always existed and have always found love at any point in time!

Again, the only reason people think queer people didn’t exist or find love in the 80s (talking specifically about st now) is because the media didn’t portray it and because they had to hide it more than they do now. So that might be an argument to catch your friend off guard because Mike having internalized homophobia and hiding his sexuality is actually more realistic for the time period than him simply not being gay. It’s exactly this shame and hiding of one’s own sexuality that leads your friend to believe that being gay and finding love in the 80s was unrealistic! Your friend’s argumentation is rooted in a very close minded and simply uneducated view on reality so I wouldn’t believe them when they tell you you’re delusional!! If anything, they’re being delusional.

I think the smartest approach to convincing a milky of byler is generally to focus only on Mike and his sexuality first before including Will and byler. Getting your friend away from melvin and more familiar with the thought of Mike being gay beforehand will definitely make them more open to the idea of byler, simply because most milkys see Will as competition to El. They see us shipping byler as a threat to El as a character because they think we try to convey that Will is somehow overall better than El even though that’s of course not at all what we’re doing. Byler is just as much about Mike as it is about Will so explicitly showing the milkys the evidence of Mike being gay regardless of his feelings for Will is always better than jumping in head first with the connection to Will.

The familial parallels that Mike and El have are very convincing evidence that melvin never loved each other romantically because all the other couples have referred to each other as friends before. The Duffers are clearly aware of the fact that the friend zone does not exist! Being friends does not exclude having romantic feelings for each other and vice versa! You do not stop being friends once you fall in love! And that’s exactly why making Mike and El refer to each other as friends and family is such a big deal because being family obviously does exclude romantic feelings! And these familial parallels follow melvin around throughout the whole show! Both Mike and El literally make mental connections to each other and family within their kissing scene in s1!!! And of course there’s all the gay coding in dialogue, costume and set design for Mike but I can’t imagine that your friend believes that to mean anything so I’d probably educate them on how everything I’m film has a purpose first.

And an argument more in the direction of byler and not just Mike’s sexuality is of course the obvious fact that Mike treats Will differently than Lucas and Dustin. And why would that be if they’re all supposed to be just best friends??? Maybe try and point out specific scenes to back this up. You should also definitely try to show your friend Mike’s monologue and the boys meeting El in the woods plus the aftermath at Mike’s house side by side! Explicitly showing them that the scenes contradict each other will definitely do more than just saying they do.

And like, the most convincing byler evidence is really just the whole fucking show. I know that’s not super helpful but it’s the truth hahah

My best friend just finished watching stranger things for the first time and I’m working on a byler presentation to convince her which I might share here when it’s finished. It’ll definitely take a lot more time to get it done but I can definitely tag you when it is!

[lemonheadhatchet]

Stranger Things Season 4 Mileven Analysis and Season 5 Theory: Mike and El breakup and Byler Possibility.

Stranger Things spoilers ahead!! Also, grab some popcorn because this is a long one.

So, one of my friends said I should post my thoughts and opinions about Byler and since I absolutely LIVE for queer representation in media, especially for a mainstream show like Stranger Things, I decided I would. Being apart of the LGBTQ+ community myself, I also felt like I'd be insulting my community in a way. I will not be attacking Mike and Eleven shippers. Also, I'm not going to be discussing too much Byler evidence as I am Mike and Eleven breaking up evidence because explaining why I believe they will break up is vital to exploring what I believe might happen in season 5. Having to explain all of that and then also all of the Byler evidence would just be an extra 3 extra hours of writing that I don't have the energy for. So, if you want more, literally go to any Byler related hashtag.

As for my thoughts on Byler, I absolutely adore the ship. Anybody who knows me, knows I absolutely love Will Byers and his entire storyline and Mike Wheeler... well, he's Mike Wheeler. As for my thoughts on the stance of their possible relationship, believe it or not, I don't think we're in that bad of a place, possibility wise. Let me explain.

Let me start off with the big love confession scene between Mike and El. First of all, I will admit, there was definitely something wrong with that monolog, but not because it was bad writing or bad acting (as Finn Wolfhard has proven multiple times that he is an incredible actor), but because from the moment it started, I instantly thought: "Wait... that doesn't make sense." Mainly when Mike told El that he loved her the day he found her in the woods. First of all, I felt like the wording was a bit odd for a moment that was supposed to be emotional. Him saying "found her" kind of made it sound like he's talking to a dog (which is oddly an example the Duffer Brothers used to describe Mike and El's relationship). Second, it doesn't make sense storyline-wise. Let's remember, their whole relationship started because Mike was dead set on finding Will. That night, Mike didn't go into the woods to find El, but when he did find her, the first thing he plans to do is get rid of her. However, his mood changes when he realizes she could be of some help to find Will. I'm sorry, but you don't just plan to get rid of someone you "love"! That's literally not a thing that happens. Even after that, he continuously asks her "what's wrong with you" in a very harsh tone (When they "found Will's body" and when she uses the force and sends Lucas flying into a wall). Again, not necessarily something you say to someone you love.

Also, the way he only references her powers is a bit weird to me. There is so much more to El than just her powers. She's brave, she's kind, she's beautiful. He could've literally said that he likes that she's different from other people, which is something that she's canonically insecure about. But, he only talks about her powers, in fact, he lists powers she doesn't even have such as flying and moving mountains. But, do you know who does? SUPERMAN, someone he's compared her too before. Maybe these are just expressions, but I just find it odd that he talked about her powers, especially after her whole arch of volume 1 is learning that she's more than just her powers.

When we cut back to El in Vecna's mind lair, we can see that it isn't working for El. The vine around her neck are tightening and you can see it on her face that she didn't seem to believe him. However, we don't see her break free and find her strength to fight until she looks over and sees that Max, her best friend that taught her about other strong, powerful women like her and inspired her to become something and someone of her own, is dying in front of her eyes. That's when she gains her strength.

Then, once Steve, Nancy, and Robin go flambé on Vecna's ass, we see Lucas and El watch Max die a tragic, horrible death in front of their very eyes. That's when El brings her back to life and Max ends up in a coma. I believe this moment is supposed to tell us that El either can't or doesn't want to live a life without Max in it and absolutely refused to let her best friend die a terrible death too soon.

This leads me to two days later. Mike, Will, El, Jonathan, Nancy, and Argyle all end up back at Hopper's cabin, cleaning it up in order to to hide El. While Jonathan, Nancy, and Argyle are outside, we see Will, Mike, and El are all inside (the perfect set up for something to happen). Mike and Will are sweeping as El goes into her old room and only keeps the door open three inches. Once the two are alone, we get our last Byler heart-to-heart scene of the season.

Prompting this conversation to begin, Will asks Mike is she's talked to him at all and Mike reveals that she's a only spoken to him little bit. A little bit. It had been 2 days. Remember, this is a couple that were glued together in season 3 and wrote letters to each other frequently while they were apart. You'd think that after watching her best friend die and having to bring her back to life, El would be really leaning on Mike, especially after him telling her he love her (which was complete and utter bull but thats a post for another day). But she hasn't, and clearly still isn't.

I believe that this scene was meant to tell us that El is starting to realize that she doesn't need Mike as much as she thought. Remember, the Duffers wanted our heros to feel what it's like to lose in such a big way. After it happens, it makes you realize who you are and what you need. El realized that she didn't need her love for Mike to help her stay strong, she needed the love she has for her family: Hopper and Max, and maybe she didn't realize it in the moment, but most definitely afterwards.

Keep in mind, the loss of her dad and the loss of Max has all occurred within 8 months of each other, that's a lot for anyone,, especially El. We also see that El is still not over Hopper's death in the beginning of season 4, then mix all that with not being able to save Hawkins, this all feels like the biggest loss of her life (because it kind of is). She also realizes that she didn't need to lean on Mike to cope, she needed to do that by herself. I think she's finally starting to realize that she's more that just Mike's girlfriend, but she's also Max's best friend and Hopper's daughter.

Also, think about what's happening during her bedroom scene where she's clearly mourning Max. Mike and Will have a very emotional moment on Hopper's old couch which really parallels their 'crazy together' moment during season 2. The way they filmed this scene is absolutely beautiful and it ends with Mike gripping Will's shoulder tightly. Some people believe that this is visual representation of Mike fear of losing Will again, I don't know if that's what they were going for, but I think it's a fun idea to play with. These scenes are happening at the same time for a reason. They are showing big, emotional moments for the three characters.

And then, the last shot of the scene, we see Eleven stand in front of half of Hawkins torn apart by the man she couldn't defeat, giving her more strength to fight that ever before. Remember, despite her awful history in the town, she still considers it home. Its where her friends are, where her boyfriend is, where she met Hopper and was taken in by him. Behind her, we see Nancy and Jonathan standing together, Joyce and Hopper standing together, and... guess who else... WILL AND MIKE STANDING TOGETHER!! Many believe this shot is a visual representation or foreshadowing how season 5 will end. Eleven will be single, Joyce and Hopper will be together, Nancy and Jonathan will be together, Mike and Will will be together.

Now, here's my take on the set up of Byler:

I think Byler could be a genuine possibility, but only if it's done correctly. Not too rushed, but not pushed until the end because saving a queer relationship between two main characters until the end of a VERY LONG SERIES is honestly just annoying and we're tired of being forced to call it "representation". This shouldn't be a case of "you get what you get". So, I'm going to create a theory (if that's what you can even call this) using the information already given to us through the Duffer Brothers.

So, I think Mike should start to have his realization in episode one. Maybe a new problem could arise that may threaten Will's safety or even life (we already know he's going to have a huge significance to the storyline in season 5) and Mike realizes that the possibility of losing Will permanently scares the absolute shit out of him (obviously), but it's different than anything he's ever felt about losing Eleven. Then something could happen with Max's coma storyline (possibly a way to wake her up) so that makes El realize she needs to bring her best friend back more than anything. Then, in episode two, they have a clean, loving breakup, and everything will begin falling into place for Will's storyline, Mike's storyline, Byler's storyline, and El's storyline. Then, maybe in the middle of the episode/towards the end, we get an emotional moment between Byler, another emotional moment between El and Max, maybe even a moment between El and Lucas, before Joyce, Hopper, Jonathan, Will, and El all haul back off to California. The rest of the episode is everyone reflecting and realizing things about themselves they had never known before and this goodbye feels even sadder and more bittersweet than the first.

I can tell you right now with complete and utter confidence, if this is how they start season 5, they will set their time skip up for success in terms of story telling, writing, and time management for building up each and every storyline.

Anyways, what do you guys think? I just spend 4 hours on this and I have work in the morning so please be kind.

[wontbyers]

Disclaimer, because this is a pretty new blog but if you want to follow you might see I’ll eventually have a tag for both #mileven and #anti mileven which might be confusing: I don’t hate Mileven. I actually think they are cute together and it wasn’t until sometime after volume 2 that I even stopped believing they would be the endgame ship. I only got into the Byler side of things after watching volume 1 and decided I like the ship (I’ve always been a multi-shipper in my fanbases, pairings literally don’t need to be either canon or endgame to simply enjoy them folks!!!) but I still thought Mileven was going to be endgame and I was content with that.

Until how vol.2 handled things with Will’s feelings and his whole plot relevance this season just being used to push Mike/El’s relationship back together—and Mike’s monologue had me feeling torn at first because it was half sweet? Like what I had been waiting for since vol.1, for him to tell her he loves her, but the other half just gave me this awful, sinking feeling….It felt wrong, and maybe because some of what he was saying wasn’t fully genuine, or maybe it’s because Will is my favorite character so it just hurts to see him hurt even if it’s (supposedly) good for El (which is arguable if that monologue was good for her at that point based on analyses.)

But it’s also because, if it turns out that Byler is NOT the end goal, that Mileven does stay together, that means they really used the one gay male character in the show’s pain and heartbreak to solidify the heterosexual pairing. And it’s NOT and will never be a competition of who between Will and El has dealt with more trauma or who “deserves” to be with Mike because love is not about deserving people anyway. It’s not about which ship would be cuter or healthier because they’re not real people, they’re fictional characters. They could easily be written to repair any “toxic” or codependent tendencies in their relationship and be perfectly fine and happy together!

It’s about the fact that LGBT+ people deserve to see stories where people like us are happy and not just “unrequited in love with their straight best friend” or “bury your gays” or anything else harmful. And LGBT+ audiences also deserve not to be toyed with and led on to believe that certain pairings we see suggested in the narrative could actually happen, only to wait years for the final season to come and find out that they were leading us astray to keep us invested just to realize “oh, no, that’s right, gay people don’t get happy endings….silly us, again.”

Rather than that, I choose to believe that the ST writers aren’t planning to do that to us. They’ve written a show about and for the outcasts and the people society shoves down, and I believe they won’t spit on our faces like that with Will’s storyline. I think they’re going to give him his happy ending. I believe in Byler endgame, which necessarily means I believe Mileven isn’t going to be endgame.

So I will reblog posts that point out specific details of the show with analyses that attempt to prove that the narrative we’ve been presented isn’t in favor of casting Mileven’s relationship in a positive light—contrasting them with Byler, and giving El a much-needed independence arc and autonomy she really hasn’t experienced yet in her life—and it isn’t about whether I like them together or not, whether I think Mileven could be healthy or not, whether I think El herself is “ready” for a romantic relationship or not, it’s about the story I want to believe they’re actually writing—which is to say not a homophobic one where Will Byers gets no happiness at the end of the day.

Also, don’t think this is me saying I only ship Byler because it’s gay or because of politics. I have ALWAYS been a fan of friends-to-lovers over love-at-first-sight tropes. Childhood best friends to lovers is actually my FAVORITE, which made it soooo easy for me to immediately love Byler as soon as I realized it was an option. I just wasn’t really aware of the ship in this case before s4 bc I didn’t see any of the hints that there were feelings between them, I just knew that Will was gay from s1 and thought that was about it. Didn’t even notice Mike’s queer-coding until tumblr analysts pointed it out. The Byler fanbase really opened my eyes and it’s impossible to go back now!

Idk if there’s anything else I wanna say on this topic rn, but yeah. I don’t hate Mileven, I just hate homophobia and if Mileven is endgame, the ST writers will literally have written quite a homophobic storyline for Will—because they didn’t need to make him be in love with Mike in the first place if he’s not going to get a happy ending. If they were just going to use his feelings to repair a straight ship. And did they accidentally queer-code Michael Wheeler THAT hard?? for no reason??? Nope. There has to be a reason, so I’m sorry Mileven, I loved you, but you will be a nice non-canon ship for me, because Byler is endgame or else <3

[erectionsandtea]

Poly party summer fun headcanons bc 😄 (I'm sorry I'm advance that this is so fucking long please forgive me) (you can find part 2 here)

Part 1

Pool party:

IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER

- El learns the usage of the word "hot" (regarding attractiveness, not temperature) when she sees Max in a two-piece swimsuit

But then Mike is like "what about me?" cos he's totally jealous and wants El's attention too, but before she can respond Max is like "you're not hot, Mike, you're more like cute in a nerdy kind of way. I guess." and El is like "yeah, you're a cute nerd!" and Mike is like "ex-fucking-cuse me??"

And then Will is like "I think you're hot" and Mike is like "thank you-"

"but you're still a nerd"

"you're a nerd!" and he grabs Will and kind of traps him in this hug and says "but you're a cute nerd" and then a cute kiss

And El is giggling at byler but still staring at Max too, and Max is yelling Byler to get a room, and Lucas is just rolling his eyes at everyone but he also keeps getting distracted looking at Max, and Dustin is yelling at everyone

"for the love of god, can you guys stop flirting for like two minutes and help me set up the snacks??"

And Suzie is like "I'll help you, Dusty-bun"

"you're the best girlfriend in the whole world"

*giggles* "you're the best boyfriend in the whole galaxy!"

"well YOU'RE the best-"

(cos Dustin and Suzie like to do this weird one-upping kind of thing ???)

And then everyone is just like "okay okay, we're coming!" and "we're helping, geez!"

- Max totally helped El shop for and pick out her swimsuit, something that would show off her cute bod and drive Mike crazy (but also herself), and "damn girl, you have no idea how good you look" *wink*

- Lucas pushes Max in the pool

- Max obvsly gets revenger by pushing Lucas in the pool, while he's in the middle of doing something else like conversing, idk

- El wants to get in on the pool-pushing action, so she tries to push mike in the pool, but he grabs hold of her and they both fall in

- Underwater kisses! (with all the ships)

- mad flirting and lots of staring, lol (also with all the ships)

- El and Max sunbathing next to Suzie but they are on towels on the grass instead of a chair bc how are they supposed to get all close to each other on a single chair ??

- sunbathing girls ogling the boys in the pool

- boys in the pool ogling the sunbathing girls

- squirt guns, water balloons, and fights with pool noodles

- Suzie likes to sunbathe and read fantasy novels (she's totally a girly-girl nerd) and Dustin likes to just stop and watch her sometimes bc she's beautiful and also cute and hot, and sometimes she'll catch him watching from the pool or across the yard and they'll smile at each other.

And then she'll say something super cheesy like "I miss you, Dusty-bun" cos technically they are apart from each other. And he starts to say that he misses her too, but then Max/Lucas are like "jesuschrist, you guys are LITERALLY 20 feet away from each other!" and Dustin is just like "hey, I put up with all of your cute couple-y shit!"

- El wants to know what Suzie is reading and Suzie starts telling her the story in great detail (cos she's totally read the book before, it's one of her favorites? WHAT BOOK DO YOU GUYS THINK IT IS, LET ME KNOW) and then she recommends more books for El

- El totally takes control of the big inflatable pool floatie shaped like a duck or a unicorn or idfk

- Mike and Will try to push the floatie over but she clings to it, screaming, and even tho they manage to overturn her she still comes out on top and splashes them to make them stop

- Max helping El defend against the boys by jumping on some backs lol (more like grabbing and hoisting bc it’s hard to jump when in water)

- Max then trying to join El by jumping on the floatie (from the side of the pool), but she just ends up sinking them both

- El also tries doing those mermaid hair flips and just generally her and max doing funny things with both their hair (El wants to be a mermaid)

- pool volleyball, anyone? Or maybe pool basketball??

- Joyce is there to bring them lemonade and the burgers that Jonathan makes and other summer foods bc she is mom of the goddamn century

- chicken fights (top/bottom) (lmk who you think would win, lol)

Max/Lucas vs El/Mike

Will/Mike vs El/Max

Lucas/Dustin vs Max/Mike

Taunts and "insults" are slung, but also cheers, lol

Everyone falls down more often from loss of balance than actual pushing

- "no running around the goddamn pool, or you little shits will face some serious consequences!" (lol sorry I had to put Steve in there, but he's really not threatening at all 😆)

- Marco Polo (and El is totally not allowed to cheat by using her powers) (but even without cheating she's still pretty good, lol)

- sneaking up behind and dunking

- El wearing goggles and just being able to actually look and SEE underwater and it's so cool and beautiful, "but it makes everything sound weird"

- splash fights, and usually more than half the party ends up turning on one or two specific people

- the boys try to do that thing where you dive through inflatable donuts and it basically becomes a contest

Will can successfully dive through one donut, it's mostly just luck tho

"okay, you can dive thru one donut, but can you dive thru two??" (Mike kind of succeeds but he somehow gets his foot stuck and kicks the donut off)

"okay, but can dive thru three???"

And Dustin is like "come on guys, this is getting insane" but he sees the donuts getting stacked and everyone lining up and he's just like *sigh* "goddamnit" cos he knows he has to do it now too, he's not backing down!

El doesn't dive but she successfully pencil jumps thru at least one donut

Max dives thru two-and-a-half donuts (don't even ask me how) and it's not all three, but it's more than any of the boys can do so she totally wins the contest

- when it starts getting late, before everyone goes inside, Joyce takes some photos of all of them while the sun is still out (until Will jokingly begs her to stop), some smiling ones, some silly face ones, and a couple candid ones (Jonathan takes most of the photos tho cos duh)

If you have any ideas or anything to add, please feel free to do so, either by reblogging or my askbox! 👍🏻

[lighthouseas]

Thoughts on st s4 v2

I know this blog is slowly turning into a stranger things blog but I have a lot of thoughts lol

Obviously, major s4 spoilers under the cut so be warned.

JOPPER KISS JOPPER CANON LET’S GOOOOOOOO

If Max dies I’m literally going to jump out of a window /hj but seriously when she was like “I’m not ready to die” I almost screamed like my poor baby jeez.  I don’t think she’ll die though just because idk why they would drag it out into the next season if they were just gonna kill her off

LUCAS MY BOY.  He deserves WAY more credit than he gets.  Lumax for the win

Yes finally Brenner is dead I hated him

Jason is also dead which is great

I CALLED Eddie dying y’all.  He was an okay character imo but he was gonna die at some point.  Especially when he and Dustin had that whole emotional convo I knew.  I KNEW.  I’m sad about how Hawkins treats him though.  That really fucking sucks. He deserved better.

Jonathan is still partially evaporated.  That Jancy reunion was half-assed and they acted like they were about to get divorced 

Ok so.  I saved this for last because...uh well.  The whole thing with Will...obviously, he’s VERY gay for Mike and for whatever reason the writers decided not to have him come out, but hey, maybe we’ll get that in the next season.  But also do take into account that this was the 80s.  I’m not saying gays didn’t exist back then, but it was a hell of a lot more dangerous to come out then than it is now (not saying it isn’t still dangerous, but y’know).  Maybe he wasn’t ready, but at the very least, it was strongly implied.  

Also, to those who wanted Byler to become canon...I’m sorry.  As a writer myself I knew from the start it wasn’t gonna happen.  Writers don’t just establish relationships like those of El and Mike and then randomly drop it for some other fan-favorite ship.  It just doesn’t happen.  I’m not talking in favor of Mileven, nor am I talking in favor of Byler.  I’m just being realistic here- it wasn’t gonna happen.  All of that hype for Byler- it was most likely just to promote the show since basically everyone knows how popular the ship is and the actors, producers, and everyone else hyping it up meant that more people would swarm to see the episodes, which means more money for them.  Yeah, it sucks, but unfortunately, that’s the entertainment industry for you.  

HOWEVER.  I do agree what they did to Will’s character was shitty.  Really shitty.  On his own, Will has so much potential, but they’re reducing him to literally just a little weak gay boy who has spidey sense.  He deserves to be happy- he’s been through literal hell every season and to top it off, he has unrequited feelings for his best friend.  I really don’t know why they feel the need to do that to him since he’s such a good person, but hopefully, that will be resolved in s5.  I’m begging you, Stranger Things, PLEASE give Will the arc he deserves- not a dumbass arc where he just suffers and is in pain.  My poor boy doesn’t deserve that.

Last thing- there’s still a lot of questions I have about everything, which I’m really hoping are answered in season 5.  I hope they’re able to tie up any loose ends, but you never know.  At this point, especially with all of the angry fans at the moment, it’s a make or break.  To be completely honest, I’m excited to see how everything plays out.

[frogboyandzombieface]

Hey !!! I heard your bored , so am I :) I have a few questions for you , you can answer them if you want <3 ( I‘ll only ask stranger things questions I hope that’s ok )

Favorite season ?

Favorite characters ?

A scene you want to see in season 4 ?

Is Mike gay or Bi ( or straight ) ?

What season 4 storyline are you most excited to see ?

Favorite ships ?

Favorite quote?

Least favorite character ?

Least favorite ship ?

I can’t think of more questions right now lol sorry 🙈. Have a great day and stay safe!! 💗

HIII OH YM GOD THANK YOU!??? I LOVE YOU???? DHDHDHS 😭i did NOT expect to get this many ... yes of course it's totally fine non !! (that's my nickname for anons lolol) THANK UUU ok here we go

favourite season?

SEASON TWOOO BAYBEEEE i just LOVE THAT motherfucker . it's got the BEST 80's vibes and awesome soundtrack and THE BYLER!!!!😭😭😭😭and also MAX AND STEVE AND ALSO I LOVE PUNK EL I KNOW THAT THAT PART OF THE STORYLINE IS CONTROVERSIAL AND I AGREE IT HAS SOME ISSUES BUT I LOVE PUNK EL OKAY and i love her exploring her darker side and using her powers to get revenge but she too much of a sweetie to be like kali. she's an angel. i love el . adore her <3333 and the colour palettes and the scenes and GAH!! i just love season 2 okay. though season 1 is SUUUPER close because holy fuck that one is so beautiful and emotional especially with joyce and will being missing and learning about hoppers past and GOD !!!! just fuckign great. And I LOVE THE LITTLE KIDS THEYRE SO CUTE ! AND SO MUCH FUN!!! god i love it . season 2's my fav but s1 is So So close by like a sliver ...

favourite characters?

MAX . ROBIN. UHH WILL. DUSTIN. MIKE. uM .... csnt fucking decide oKAY 3)33&28/8922 i love them all!!! they're all my blorbos and i adore them with every bit of my tiny little pathetic gay heart !!!?2! THOUGH.... my fav FAVs are max will and robin. im not gonna chose they're all at the same level i love em thoigh robin maybe just a tiny bit less because we don't know as much about her yet , i get more attached the more we learn though i guarantee that when season 4 comes out and we get a bit more robin stuff (hopefully)... she will definitely be with max and will. I just love them. though I LOVE DUSTIN AND MIKE TOOO!!!! dustin is such a great character he's been such an awesome staple and the show definitely would be bad as hell without him. and i love mike because i LOVE HIS FUCKING STORY AND HIS CHARACYER ARc he's just my pathetic little sad gay repressed homosexual. this is probably not making sense im so sorry😭

a scene you want to see in season 4?

GOD. anything. i just want to see A SCENE . i am so desperate for content that i will literally take anYYYTHINGZZZ ... though we have gotten some new shit lately in the lead up to s4 but it's been like what?? 3 years since we've had new stuff ? or is it 4? no it's gotta be 3 .. im terrible ag maths. but tbh i reALLY REALLY want to see ronance content , el discovering herself and like finding more things she's happy about specifically a hobby, i really want her to have an interest in something because she's had like . literally NOTHING except like all her trauma or just interest in like . mike. lIKE WHAT DOES SHE LOVE OTHER THAN THAT?? can she paint? will she write ? like give me a hobby pls!!! 💀as max says there's more to life than stupid boys please let her flourish as an individual . but like dude .. there as so many scenes i wanna see and this is So long already and i think i will leave it there before i go on an incomprehensible annoying ass tangent thank u

is mike gay bi or straight ?

ohhhkay so this discourse i been seeing a lot lately . ummm ima be dead honest he seems to be more queercoded as gay rather than bisexual like .. he throws himself into a relationship with el and like yes he does show genuine interest at first and like im going off the top of my head but basically just read @beepboop358 's byler proof google slides. that will summarise my whole opinion on the whole thing tbh. BUT !! im not opposed to him being bi!!! we have no idea at this standpoint guys rememebr that ! mike has a long way to go in terms of accepting himself and coming to terms and discovery etc let's just see what the duffers are gonna do with it !!! :)) so im gonna say it can be either one but i am leaning slightly towards gay because of all the subtext .

what season 4 storyline r u most excited to see ?

ALL OF THEM !!!! literally all of them. god im so so fuckimg exicted we're gonna get CONTENT BAYBEEEE i been watching the same 3 seasons for what feels like a goddamn lifetime like PLS.. ima be a bit basic and say the pizza gang mainly because i wanna see byler develop (and it looks like they're really leaning into it now !! HOLY SHIT FHDHDJDJB!!!!! i been shipping them since 2017 and ppl thought it was like a crack ship my god we've come so far .. ) though also very excited to see the older teens storyline especially with eddie seeing what kinda character he is !!

favourite ships ?

ummm obviously byler 😭😭😭😭and also elmax GOD elmax ... and also lumax !!! fucking love them. but also ronance and stoncy and also byclair and henclair .... like so much. i love em all. AND HENDERHOP very cute <3 and hopclair!!! i just love them ALL and also steveddie even though we barely have any content yet but i have a feeling it's gonna be really fun :))

favourite quote ?

mmm this is a good question honestly !!! i really like jonathan's quote "you shouldn't like things just cause people tell you you're supposed to" i love that honestly . makes me very happy :)) but like .. also hoppers letter at the end of s3??? it just gets to my heart in a way i can't explain... like damn. i remembr first time i watched it i CRIED my eyes out like jesus but also. half the quotes from season 1 i love 'em . so many iconic bits in that season

least favourite character ?

lonnie and brenner . those cunts can go rot in hell 🥰

least favourite ship?

umm i don't know to be honest. i don't have a ship that i hate , well actually h*rringrove i DESPISE they can fuck off .. hate the billy / karen thing years are taken off my life ever time im forced to see it..

i don't like j*pper very much (but only season 3, im not about to get into it rn i cant be fucked though i don't hate it) j*ncy is eh and m*leven . i don't hate melvin but i don't think they right for each other same with j*ncy. but otherwise idk i don't hate that many ships .. there's not that many that get under my skin except i don't prefer it if they don't really have chemistry or have issues though not saying relationships can't ever have issues that's unrealistic ,

and ITS OKAY THATS PLENTLY OF QUESTIONS FJDJDJ and i hope u like my annoying long ass answers becaude i have so much shit to say !!! I HOPE YOU HAGE A GREAT DAY/NIGHT TOO ANON THANK U I LOVE U <3333

[deckerswheeler]

let’s break this down, shall we?

**disclaimer!! this is not meant to be an attack on this person! i am only going to be counterclaiming their points or explaining why they are incorrect. i do not mean any harm in this post**

1. “mike/el and mike/will do not parallel each other” this is incorrect. mileven and byler have been paralleled throughout the seasons. for example, when el is stuck in the void and the upside down, the camera zooms in on her and pans out as she screams for mike. the same thing happens when will is in the upside down on halloween after the bullies push him over. it has the same camera angles, same type of music, and the same idea. they both call for mike.

2. byler has groundwork. from season one episode one they have been seen as closer than the other boys. they spent almost the entirety of season two together. the crazy together scene, hand holding scene, and shed scene alone should set their relationship apart from their relationships with the other members of the party. neither mike nor will act that way with dustin, max, or lucas. mike literally said asking will to be his friend was the best thing he’s ever done. if their season two relationship doesn’t show you how much groundwork they have, i don’t know what else will.

3. how are byler shippers “blindly ignorant to how writing works”?? sorry, but last time i checked, stranger things isn’t just a base level “you get what you see” type of show. the duffers have clarified many times that they don’t write at the surface level. everything they do has a purpose. that means minute details that seem like meaningless, second-long clips, could be symbols or easter eggs. many mileven shippers, (not all but a lot), only tend to see what is put in front of them. when in reality, that’s not what stranger things is. if you aren’t reading between the lines or taking note of small details while watching, key aspects of the show could fly over your head.

4. this one is almost laughable. mileven has most definitely NOT been set up as romantic since episode one. first of all, mike and el didn’t even properly meet until episode two. and even then, mike was ready and willing to report her to social services! the only reason why he kept her for so long was because once he found out about her powers, he knew there was a chance of finding will again. he called her a weapon halfway through the first season, i don’t think that’s very romantic. yes, they became close friends early on, but there was not ANY romantic coding until the episode with their first kiss!! obviously mike developed a crush on el, she’s the first girl that ever gave him attention. not only that, but he was living through the trauma of maybe losing his closest friend forever! he was projecting those feelings onto el, while el literally thought they would be like siblings until mike kissed her-- she had no clue it was even romantic.

5. saying mike and will have zero romantic subtext is just plain bullshit. i stated a lot of it in point 2, but there is so much more. in season 3 for example, mike basically outs will during their fight. (some people like to claim that mike was referring to will’s immaturity, but there are so many other ways they could’ve phrased that. like i already stated, the duffers claim nothing they do is accidental, so why would they make that line so vague? it was referring to will being gay. along with all of will’s other gay coding throughout the series, i.e. lonnie calling him the f slur, troy and his friends calling him q***r and a fairy as well as making fun of him for being gay, hopper acting grossed out by will being gay and asking joyce “is he?”) then, mike tries to apologize and travels all around hawkins in the pouring rain!! just to find will. and don’t even get me started on the “not possible” scene... if y’all don’t see the CLEAR flirting in that scene,,,,,, i got news for you lol

6. saying that byler shippers just like “fetishizing handsome white boys” is absolutely disgusting and a gross generalization. i assure you that that is NOT the reason why we ship byler. it’s more or less because we are sick of seeing solely straight couples rushed into a relationship on little to no foundation or build-up and honestly makes no sense when you think about it (cough cough mileven), when there is a relationship with 10x more development right there that isn’t canon simply because it is not heterosexual. we also ship byler because it is a breath of fresh air to see young gay/bi characters and a healthy mlm relationship, if byler became canon it would make thousands of kids so happy who just want to see themselves on the screen! aside from that, we ship byler because of the countless hints, coding, potential, etc, the show has provided.

7. finally, telling us we need to “use a brain cell,” calling us delusional, saying we’re “bending the narrative,” is just mean. there was no reason to make personal attacks towards the people who ship byler. i see people shipping mileven every day and i am not calling them delusional or stupid because they choose to ship it. people are free to interpret the show however they like and ship whatever they want. if anything, you’re the one who is denying canon by acting like mike and will have no foundation or meaningful relationship. also, we’re not “pretending it’s inevitable”??? no one knows how the duffers are going to write the show. mileven could be canon now, and break up later. byler could happen in season 4-5, and it might not. no one knows, so the fact that you felt the need to bash byler shippers for their own opinion and interpretation of the show is pretty sad.

**again... i respect all ships, and i am not trying to attack this person. if i seem harsh it’s because they were SOOO disrespectful in their post towards byler shippers. i know not all mileven shippers are like this, but i wanted to clear up some of this one’s points and share my point of view. i also don’t agree with their behavior and how they addressed people with a different view than them, so i couldn’t let it go.**

[willthecleric]

I read the thing about them removing everything that could be interpreted as Byler (or Mileven dissing) in the scripts, and I really hope it's what you guys said about them wanting to be more cautious because they're noticing some people are really catching onto their subtext.

But my pessimistic side of my head is wondering, do you think there's a chance it was done to erase every piece of byler because it's not gonna be endgame, so they don't want people to think it is? Like maybe the Duffers were gonna make it happen but they were told to forget about Byler if they wanted the show to stay on Netflix? So they removed the possible 'evidence' for it in the script? Like I know I'm overthinking but you know what I mean. I hope I'm wrong, I'm just wondering.

I get your fears, but I definitely do not think that this is the case at all. Honestly, I don't think the Duffers would continue producing their show on Netflix if they had to ditch Byler and go with a ship that they hate and have labelled throughout the series as being toxic.

This story is their baby and something that they have worked really hard on. And Byler is very important to the story and so woven into it. And they love it. You can tell how much they love Byler by how much effort they put into it. How central it is to the series. I just can't see them going along with any plan of the show where they forget all about that just to go along with M**even. I think in that case they would either go to another streaming service (and I mean any of them would jump at doing ST), finish off their story in a movie, or go into comic books.

But I don't think that Netflix is dumb enough to ever drop one of its biggest shows that has made it a lot of money. And at the end of the day, profit is what Netflix cares about.

And I highly doubt that M**even is ANYWHERE NEAR as popular as this fandom believes it is. Most of this fandom is composed of young Americans. ST is a universal series. I think most people just assume it is endgame. But I have not encountered one person in real life who cares in the least bit about M**even. I just can't see millions upon millions of people around the globe hanging onto a vanilla teenage ship. A gay ship is way more groundbreaking and profitable than the kind of ship that we have seen millions of times over that does not offer anything new. It's old, boring, and tired.

Not hating on straight ships as a whole. I'm just saying that so many of them are the same and there is literally nothing new and exciting about M**even. I've always found it really boring tbh. Even before I noticed all the issues. I was so confused when I entered the fandom and saw people shipping it. Adding to this, it’s just plain toxic and the Duffers want us to see that it’s toxic. They are not being subtle. They literally bring out the worst in each other and negatively impact the people around them. El spent 12 years isolated in a lab and Mike is gay and in love with his best friend. It’s a hot mess.

The Duffers love subverting expectations. Also, M**even was never meant to be shipped. And it was compared to ET and Elliot since the pitch.

I hope that this was at least a little bit reassuring. :)

[willel]

Honest question: what _would_ be the way an unrequited will_>mike crush could work, in your opinion? Cause your post seems to rule out most possible outcomes, so I was wondering how you'd fine with it

I'll start with the words from byler shipper that I read on twitter. "if byler is one sided that doesn't have to be bad"

It doesn't HAVE to be bad, to hear that from someone who ships the ships and can still see a positive in a one sided outcome is what made me relax a little. She's right, it doesn't have to be terrible and my past experienced don't mean much if it's done well.

That said, I'd like to go over the examples I wrote in more detail.

“Lol, they never loved them anyway! It was all a misunderstanding! A joke! Haha! Anyway, they married their TRUE love just now and it’s someone else entirely. Isn’t that great?”

This first example is what happened in the series that shall not be named. For many years, the main character was clearly in love with the other main character, but the final part was released and they ended up with someone else entirely. Not only that, the following content after that went from "It wasn't actually love, it was just a crush." to "It wasn't a crush, it was just admiration." to "It wasn't admiration, they were just using them."

If you're going to go with an unrequited love story, let it be unrequited! Too often these writers try to find a way to "fix" it. Like "Oh they weren't actually in love." Let them be in love. Let the other not reciprocate. It's not that big of a deal don't erase everything that came before. It's not BAD to not have your feelings reciprocated, sometimes it happens.

“Oopsie, this character will never be able to move on and be miserable forever and ever! Boo hoo 😢. TRAGEDY, THEY END THEIR LIFE, THEY’RE DEVASTATED AND HATE EVERYONE”

This is another unrequited love scenario that I just hate. When the feelings aren't mutual, the person turns into a completely out of character dickwad and goes full scorched earth over it. SPECIFICALLY when it is not in that person's character to act that way.

Like if this is a weirdo freaky character that of course would go completely insane when someone says no, that's different than a pretty normal person suddenly going full coo-coo for cocoa puffs over something like this.

It's perfectly within reason, for example, to get upset. Maybe an argument. Some crying. And inevitably distancing yourself maybe. But imagine a character like Will going full "If I can't have you no one can!!!" Yeah hell no. Don't turn characters into psychos please.

“Oh they THOUGHT they were in love but they got over it in literally 2 seconds after they blinked once and GASP! A brand new interest and this time it’s for REAL!”

This one isn't necessarily BAD but it's extremely cliche, especially for the gay best friend trope. Gay best friend doesn't win the best friend over the girl. But le gasp, 5 minutes later gay best friend drops his handkerchief and another gay man picks it up for him and suddenly there is a twinkle in their eyes kind of stuff.

That is cheap, shallow, and lazy, though I feel like this is more of a movie cliche than a tv cliche. Then again, I don't watch that many tv shows. If they're going to be this shallow with it, I'd rather Will didn't like Mike and it starts with someone entirely new instead (this acknowledging that Will most certainly likes Mike)

All that said, what do I think would be ok? Well, it's not really my place to say what is or isn't ok. I'm not a shipper. But as a wanna be writer/artist....

Unrequited love isn't BAD. But if they're going to write this, they need to make it about WILL and him being himself and discovering himself. NOT what he is LOSING. Don't make it about Mike. Don't make it about El. Make it about Will accepting HIMSELF even if he gets rejected. This character arc should not be based on one boy and one boy only (Mike), it should be about boys in general and finally "release" him.

Let's say Will himself has been in denial about his own feelings all this time. "I don't like him like THAT. He's just my bff. And he's a guy. This isn't love. No way. I'm not gay. I'm not what my dad calls me. The bullies aren't right." which I can totally see being the case.

Then, continue this story with Will putting two and two together. "Oh shit, maybe I do... maybe I am... oh no."

Allow him a cathartic release even if he knows what the answer might be. "I know you might not feel the same, but I love you. I wanted to say it before it's too late." (too late in this case being they might die so no regrets) Let him speak the words. Let him reveal himself to the people he cares about. Let him finally get the pat on the shoulder that it's ok even if his love isn't reciprocated.

Coming from the perspective of a Will fan (Byers family fan really), I want this love arc to be about Will finally, FINALLY coming into himself and not letting people run over him. Let him finally say the words and not feel like the awkward 3rd, 4th, and 5th wheel of his friend group. If they all survive this, let him finally have a place in the discussion to talk about his interests like other teenagers do (in this case, with his new sister and Max probably cause they also like boys for the most part)

I want him to be hopeful about his future and finding someone just for him. He shouldn't have to look longingly and sad at Mike for the rest of his life, don't make the misery last forever and ever. The conclusion to all this should be freedom and happiness.

I realized my dread is from the fear that people are only thinking about the ship, and how terrible it would be if the ship fails (which it would be if you ship the ship). I'm also worried how Will's personal arc might slip through peoples fingers if the ship potentially isn't to be. Know what I mean?

I still fear the writing, if the writers can pull off a satisfactory arc like this for Will, but also not make Mike out to be a bad guy or something because they consistently do that when it comes to ships.

Stancy vs Jancy. What did they do? They made Nancy out to be terrible (she wasn't) and to some viewers, made it ambiguous if she cheated or not (she didn't)

Max and El's friendship. What did they do? Made Hopper overly aggressive and unreasonable (cause haha funny). Made Mike and Lucas into complete doofuses (I mean they are kids and can be stoopid but jeez)

To a lesser extent, Lumax and Dustin. What did they do? Made Dustin just as incompetent as Steve even though Dustin didn't really seem that stupid. But again, it wasn't that bad compared to the others.

I feel like, in order to make Will's arc happen, they might go to far and make Mike a jackass or something (ignoring Will almost completely like he's a second thought or be rude to him for no reason). Firstly, I would think Mike would've grown past that because of everything that happened in season 3. If he still didn't learn his lesson from all that..... he is NOT on a good path.

Secondly, it will create more division in the fanbase. You'll have Will fans angry at Mike for ignoring his friends. You'll have Mike fans being overly defensive (as they were after season 3) excusing his bad friend behavior because "Will is annoying". You'll have a portion of the mileven fanbase also getting defensive and upset about "third wheeling" even if Will isn't trying to be a third wheel. You'll have byler fans getting defensive about all of the above and the fighting goes on and on in a cycle it goes.

I know some anons a while back were probably rolling their eyes like "Of course she'd blame all this on the writing" but this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Whether it's a fan or the writing team itself, when you only know how to develop a character or relationship by putting another character down, you start to cause unnecessary rifts. There are gonna be rifts anyway but you're actively making them even worse. You really don't have to do it that way and so I hope they don't.

If I'm still not clear on this, feel free to ask more.

[kaypeace21]

i’m a survivor too, and i found that certain scenes/stuff will said just really struck me as ‘csa-survivor’-like? i felt a bit uncomfortable about headcanoning it happening to someone else, especially for a fandom as wild as this one, but your metas have really been a comfort to me because they’ve been able to pick out and explain things that i couldn’t necessarily find the words for myself.

and yeah, i would love to have a character like me that is powerful and who finds love and who gets a happy ending. the people who call the theory disgusting always kinda hit wrong with me because although csa is a difficult subject, we shouldn’t be ashamed about sharing it. they sound like they’re trying to say that it’s a bad topic to talk about and implying that it can’t happen to kids, which uhhhhh-

(i’m sure that’s not what they mean, precisely, but it’s still what they sound like, and i wish that they would stop implying that we can’t exist, especially in popular media. we do, and i’m not gonna pretend we don’t, and if they feel uncomfortable with the topic they can just use the block button. we deserve to have some well written representation just as much as anyone else. also, i really really hope that will gets a happy ending.)

anywayyyy i love your theories and i can see your post in the tag so i think you’re fine?? have a good day ❤️❤️❤️

SORRY, this ask took so long to respond to. It always warms my heart to hear other survivors speak and say they found comfort in my theory.

Yes, I think I and a lot of c*a/r*pe victims (subconscious or otherwise) were triggered by some of the symbolism/visuals in s1-3. And s3 made it hard for most of us to ignore the past imagery- since s3 wasn’t as subtle.

I get why people have reservations about the theory. But the debates to the contrary are usually just plain offensive. Or people trying to be respectful but being the opposite. There’s the obvious bad-apples . I got many anons after part 1 of my DID theory saying it “ruined/tainted byler”, and “if that happened to Will i’ll stop shipping byler” , or that it  “ruins the best gay character” ,  and to “remove the post immediately”. And this was when I was open about being a gay c*a victim. I obviously blocked them. Many survivors don’t come forward because they’re afraid people will see them as “tainted”, “ruined”, “ just their trauma”, or blame them for what happened. So yeah, it pisses me off when people say similar stuff about Will (and thus other c*a victims). Not even diving into the messed up psychology about byler/mileven shippers (knowing i was a lesbian c*a victim) but purposely spreading bs rumors about me being a p*do that was into Will/Noah-all because of the theory. -_-

Then there’s the people who try to be “respectful” but literally do the opposite.

I’ve heard numerous times it’s somehow “less offensive” to just use r*pe imagery to make monsters scary. Rather than have  the monsters have that imagery cause Will created the monsters from his memory/imagination-and st is a story of Will healing from that trauma. SORRY- I disagree. Using the worst experiences of peoples’ lives (and triggering their trauma) for no real purpose- except to make their monsters scarier to the normal/general audience who haven’t gone through it so won’t be triggered like us - is MORE OFFENSIVE to victims! NOT LESS! At least to me.

Then there’s the people who say “c*a should never be talked about (in stories).” Which I disagree with. V*ctims have already been told by ab*ser’s  and enablers of the ab*ser- to never talk about what happened to us  . So it rubs A LOT of us the wrong way when people say this.  Because (subconscious or not) you remind some of us of the people who used to hurt/silence us. People say this -simply for their convenience (like ab*sers) and cause deep down they’re uncomfortable with our existence and equate the despicable act to us the innocent v*ctim ...or just want to deny the horrible reality of the situation (like many enablers who deny the truth and hurt us because they don’t want to accept reality) . And 1) It brings us back to a time where they told us to NEVER talk about it- and makes us feel like we did something wrong when we didn’t! 2) Every psych professional says with-holding/keeping the ab*se a secret is detrimental to our mental health.

Plus, there’s a HUGE difference between sugarcoating/minimizing trauma or WORSE glamorizing, condoning, or romanticizing C*A in stories (ex: pretty little liars) VS showing how the action is wrong, causes trauma, but showing recovery and happiness is still possible for v*ctims.  if the story shows how accurately traumatizing it is (instead of minimizing/glamorizing it)- it’s incredibly rare for that character to get a happy ending. Having a story about recovering from that type of trauma and finding happiness despite such hardships would be amazing for US survivors! We rarely get stories with a happy ending-  it’s more harmful to us survivors to never see ourselves get happy endings in tv/film/books. How can some survivors (in a dark place) think there’s a light at the end of the tunnel- if it’s never shown?Also if Will has DID too- it’s good mental health rep, along with queer rep (and survivor’s rep.) All 3 groups rarely are treated well or get happy endings in media. A lot of people may feel more heard, seen, and a bit more hopeful for the future - If Will (and other characters) get a happy ending.

And even though st has many themes- like say homophobia. To try and hand-wave all the disturbing  r*pe imagery away  as ‘Will is just gay so the monsters are like that”. IS SOOOOOO offensive. Trigger warning for examples. I’m sorry what part of Max saying when Billy had c*nsensual s*x it’s “good screams” but when possessed by the mf he causes Heather to do “bad screams” read as gay???! Having the possessed ch*ke/dr*g people before throwing them in trunks (like it’s implied Lonnie did to Will -since Jonathan checked Lonnie’s trunk for Will in s1)?Tying their arms and legs up/ g*ging  them and  getting on top of them and saying “stay VERY still it’ll all be over soon”-before a monster shoves it’s tentacle into someone’s mouth and inserts a goo - just gay??? Similar to the sentient vine/shadow monster forcing itself down Will’s throat. Let alone Will saying things like “he made me do it”, “i felt it everywhere”, or being tied to a bed and screaming “help! stop! it hurts! let me go!” While Jonathan is the only one who’s visibly triggered by this and has to literally turn away and hug someone . Or barb, billy, and El spiting up a white liquid from their mouth (similar to will spitting up a slug and lying to his mother about it ).El/billy touching a suspicious looking slime with their hand and looking at the substance confused . El drawing Papa with 3 legs (the middle one being shorter) ,  trying to undress in front of the boys , and Benny saying “I think she’s been ab*sed or something”.The theme of ab*sive dads- brenner , Lonnie, and Neil . Even when the demogorgan (called in d&d the “deep father”/ in the show “a man without a face”) attacked Barb it’s chopped up with scenes of Nancy having c*nsensual sex (the monsters are doing the opposite symbolically). There’s way more examples but NO- to try and hand wave /equate ALL OF THIS to just “gay imagery” or an “a*ds metaphor” is WAY more problematic. And just offensive (specifically to gay people) than just admitting what it may actually represent. R*pe imagery and gay imagery is NOT THE SAME THING!

Also ST has never been a kid show- maybe rewatch the show and see the rating of tv-14 . Goodness sake- s1 has a st*ged su*icde, k*dnappings, m*rder, discussions of physics, h*mophobia, and s*x (with stancy in s1 & jancy in s2-s3). S2/3 discuss at their finalies recovering from tra*ma . S2 had gra*ic de*ths,  a man causing a women br*in damage/ and faking her m*scarriage, and a gang of vigalantes k*lling criminals. s3 had critiques on capitalism /media/s*xism, many d*eaths, and questionable imagery like the prior seasons. The Duffers constantly reference  movies & events from the 80s (capitalizing on 80s nostalgia /subverting 80s motifs that middle age people  from that time remember)! Those people were their intended age demographic . Most 80s centric refs go over most kids’ heads (heck a lot went over my head too since I wasn’t alive in the 80s XD).The Duffers even said in the book “worlds turned upsidedown”  “it’s not a kid’s show despite having kids”. And maybe it’s a coincidence but when Lucas in s3 hands Will the “devil’s baby” firework (a hint about Lonnie) he says “18 and over only.” Which idk is a weird/random af line unless it’s foreshadowing that the show will get darker about various themes- and maybe even change ratings.

I get people wishing nothing bad ever happened to Will or Jonathan. And being apprehensive and not trusting the Duffers to do such a story justice (cause it’s difficult to do). But personally i trust them to do so tastefully with tact and not be exp*itative, (overly gr*fic) or offensive to v*ctims. You can disagree and think the show is about something else (or not trust the Duffers)- but it’d be great if people could stop using these other messed up talking points. While trying to appear ‘(fake) woke’ and like they care for victims- cause we see through it that you really don’t.

Have a lovely day anon ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Update- I just really agreed with and appreciate the tags in this reblog

[themikewheelers]

So..have you noticed how it's become sort of like a trend to call mileven "toxic". I know you've talked about this before but I've seen it so much since then. People jumping on the "bash mileven" wagon. Most of them are byler (not all) shippers, and they always end their argument w/ "Mike should be with Will!!" Even some freaking "madwheeler" shippers.. lol what?? Sorry for ranting but it's just been annoying me greatly.

I’m gonna be honest I don’t really like talking about this stuff because it makes me uncomfortable, so if ideally people could not send a bunch of asks in response to this that’d be great lol, but here’s just the main arguments I always see for why Mileven is toxic and why they make no sense 

1. “Eleven isn’t ready for a relationship after everything she’s been through.”

This one is absolutely a valid concern for their relationship. Mike and Eleven both are extremely traumatized, so of course that raises the question whether they’re both ready to handle a relationship. However, as of the canon show and what we’ve seen so far, there’s been nothing that shows or implies that their mental health is causing any problems in their relationship, or that their relationship is causing any problems for their mental health. Of course it’s a potential problem that could arise for them, but nothing that has happened in the show implies it and it’s not something that inherently will happen. There’s many mentally ill people in the world who feel like their illness limits their ability to hold a healthy relationship, but there’s also mentally ill people who are still capable of healthy relationships. For some mentally ill people, their relationships are actually really good for them and their health. Making generalizations that it’s impossible for either of them to handle a relationship after the things they’ve been through is not only false, but offensive to mentally ill people and trauma survivors. 

This argument also, in my experience, goes hand in hand with people infantilizing El. They treat her as a toddler who doesn’t have any emotional maturity after the lab. I will just say this, we know next to nothing about what happened to El in the lab. She had a very sheltered life and as a result has many gaps in knowledge, but she also had 12 years worth of experiences in there she matured through. We don’t know exactly what happened to her, but she wasn’t just staring at a wall sucking her thumb for years. She is a very mature person for her age and she is not a toddler just because she doesn’t have the education most people her age do. We don’t know what happened to El in the lab, and we can’t make assumptions about it to try and prove a point. 

2. “Jealousy makes for an unhealthily relationship”

Possessiveness is a sign of a toxic relationship. Excessive jealousy is a sign of a toxic relationship. Regular jealousy, however, is not. Every person on the planet gets jealous sometimes, in fact it’s a very healthy emotion in small doses, and at some point in every relationship jealousy will surface, whether small or large, because it is a natural unavoidable emotion. Eleven is a very insecure person, and after being separated from Mike for a year, she comes back to see him talking and laughing with another girl. I don’t think that kind of jealousy is a sign of a toxic relationship, I think that’s a pretty normal reaction from her and a lot of people would have felt the same. If that kind of jealousy became super prevalent or excessive or in any way became an influential part of their relationship, that would be toxic, but as of right now it’s nothing more than a one-time occurrence of a 13 year old girl feeling insecure as a normal reaction to her circumstances.  

Also, I would make the argument that Eleven’s jealousy over Max isn’t purely romantic jealousy over Mike, but I discussed that more here

3. “Their relationship is too intense/dramatic.”

Mike and Eleven’s relationship, at least from what we’ve seen so far, is 100% very intense and dramatic. But that’s not exactly a toxic thing because there’s context behind it. In almost every single interaction we’ve seen them have, they’ve been plunged into various life-or-death situations where everything is intense. When you’re in that kind of high-stress situation, all emotions become more intense. So yes, when you look at Mike and El, during all the times they’ve almost died or lost each other, they’ve been very dramatic about their feelings. Dramatic emotions for a dramatic situation. But if you look at the times they’ve interacted where there is no dangerous life-or-death situation going on, they really are not that intense. Look at the Snow Ball, that’s one of the only scenes we get where the kids are in a normal, casual situation, and in it Mike and El are acting just like any other relationship between 13 year olds.  Obviously if the two of them were all “I can’t lose you again” or “I never gave up on you” in a casual everyday basis, that would be weirdly intense, but there’s nothing unhealthy about acting emotional in an emotional situation. 

4. “They’re too clingy/attached/dependent and being separated caused Mike to go into a bad place”

This one kind of goes along with the last one, but it all comes down to the context. Yes, when Mike and El were separated it really messed them both up a lot, but I wouldn’t say that’s toxic because it makes sense for their situation. From El’s perspective, she’s been in total isolation for almost a year. She hasn’t been able to leave a small 2-room cabin in the woods for months, only interacting with one other person, who’s gone most days anyway. Of course it starts to drive her a little up the wall, and of course she’s going to miss her best friend. Then from Mike’s perspective, he thought El was dead. In fact, he thought he watched her die. Grief really messed him up in season 2. It didn’t help that he didn’t even know if she was actually dead or not, and that obscurity is what led to him doing stuff like calling out for her just in case she was alive. Mike was absolutely a mess in s2, but that wasn’t because El was gone, it was because he was in grief over the fact that she was presumed dead. Those are not the same things. If going into grief when someone you care about dies means you’re dependent on them, then sure, Mike is dependent on El. And honestly, I’d make the argument that Mike’s depression in season 2 was not solely a result of losing El. It was also a result of a lot of trauma, along with the stress of having to keep it a secret and therefore not being able to process it. 

Again, context is important. El didn’t just hop on a bus and go, “Bye Mike I’ll see you in a year!” She literally exploded in front of him, and then had to go into total isolation for months and months. If in future seasons when things return to a more casual and normal setting Mike and El are still super clingy and attached, then that would be a cause for concern, but them acting that way in the context of s2? 100% normal (and healthy)

Mike and El’s relationship, at least from what we’ve seen now, is not toxic. Maybe in the future it will become unhealthy, but there is the potential for that in all relationships on the planet. No relationship is 100% perfect and they all have the potential for problems because people themselves are not perfect, and everyone has their rough edges that can cause problems when trying to form a life with someone, there’s not such thing as two people being a “perfect fit.” But that is not the same thing as toxic. Nothing in Mike and El’s present relationship has shown that they are in anyway unhealthy or damaging to each other. Arguments like this do nothing but belittle actual toxic relationships. Posts about it really are nothing but parts of petty “ship wars” or people feeling threatened that a ship they dislike is popular, but there’s lines not to cross, and throwing around labels like that meaninglessly crosses them. 

But on a more positive note I’ll just say this. Mike and Eleven’s relationship has been built on three key factors: commitment, honesty, and loyalty. They’ve been shown to be completely supportive of one another and want nothing but to ensure the other’s safety and happiness. Beyond just having good chemistry, the two of them have demonstrated having a surprisingly healthy and mature relationship for their age through their dedication to one another. 

[kaypeace21]

Lmao you keep convincing yourself that Byler is a thing when there was only like 2 scenes the whole season. You’re gonna drive yourself crazy trying to pick the show apart like that for some fake ship.

Well, they had way more than 2 scenes, but regardless of whether I’m just “crazy” over a “fake ship”. I mean …with how common queer baiting is, I sadly wouldn’t be surprised if I was XD. But…

I’m asking this genuinely (without animosity) … are most people happy with the mileven rep they got in s3? 

If you are, that’s great -good for you :) !  As a multi shipper, i thought they were cute before- but I feel like s3 ruined them, almost beyond repair. And almost every one of my mileven shipping followers or mutuals was (justifiably) upset.

-We have El dump Mike, smile and laugh about it, high five Max, not shed a single tear over him, and have a slumber party and laugh and read comics with Max. 

Juxtaposed with Will and Mike having a small fight, and Will running away in the rain, sadly reading his comic book, then looking at a photo of the gang and repeatedly calling himself “stupid” 4 times ( for thinking he ever had a chance with Mike), tearing apart his photos, sobbing,  and having a mental breakdown,and destroying his safe place.

This is literally our first scene with with Will & El after their fights with Mike… the difference is obvious.

- And when asked if Mike was a good kisser,  she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future).  But when Mike asks“ I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?“ Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically.

They both even laugh and say he ‘talks too much’, behind his back.

- We have El eavesdrop on her ex, which she held no remorse for. And we also overhear Mike say sexist shit about El. And we have multiple female characters call Mike out for treating El as if she’s dumb, and can’t handle herself.It’s like the writers are trying to say the aren’t good for each other?

- When Mike says to El  “you’re most important thing to me”in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment, she just responds by saying that Hopper was right about them spending too much time together. Juxtaposed to Mike saying (in the shed) to Will , that asking him to be his friend was “ the best thing I’ve ever done”, and we have Will cry and almost break away from his possession because of his words.

Like if we’re comparing these 2 scenes . You’re lying if you say the mileven shed confession was more emotional and heartfelt.

- In the last ep, we see El, confront Mike about what he said in the cabin, when fighting with max (“I love her!”).  Mike is confused, that was 3 months ago and El says “You talked about your feelings your heart”. Mike just says “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”  But he remembers exactly what he said to Will, almost 10 years ago? AND NO, he’s not pretending to not remember, he is genuinely confused. 

And when El kisses him, no joke Mike keeps his eyes open the WHOLE time - and he doesn’t kiss her back . It was awkward… (you’re telling me they didn’t have a better take than this?!)

And right after this kiss , Mike is just confused, they’ve been broken up for 3 months (½ the time-6 months- they dated). He’s just genuinely confused because he probably assumed they transitioned back to great friends that love each other, not that she “loves” him… Mike never once in the season says to El face to face he “loves” her.

She thought Mike was in love with her for 3 months, and didn’t get back together with him- but it’s the moment she leaves that she says she loves him? Maybe she just had too much on her plate after her dad’s death, moving in with the Byers and then having to move away (to actually get back together with Mike and talk about her ‘feelings’ for him)? And then they snuggle noses outside after- cause… they’re back together? The writing and directing were so poor this season, it’s hard to interpret what the writers’ intentions were. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mike is just going to date her in s4 (at long-distance) because he’s in denial about his feelings for Will. Which I’ve talked about  (relating to s3) here, here, and here (I also talked about all of Mike’s bi-coding from s1-2).

But let’s just ignore that. Even if byler has 0% chance of happening. Do you think Mileven was portrayed as ‘soulmates’ who love each other and should be ‘endgame’, from what we saw in s3? Cause honestly,  I think if they have them end up together … it makes little to no sense, given how they set this up. They ruined mileven’s potential/dynamic from previous seasons on purpose. And if they backtrack now, it’ll look like Mike and El are ending up with people who aren’t good for them romantically.

*gif credit- 1st elmax pic from user jokerous ,2nd elmax pic from user carolchewies, Will gifs from michonnegrimes , byler pic (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr), those shitty gifs … mine XD