#narnia discourse

[readingwritingraptures]

Okay, that's all valid and interesting, but I need somebody to understand why I'm upset.

My beloved Narnia movies were the old BBC series that had actors in beaver-face-paint. The special effects were ridiculous. Some of the acting was downright camp ("Where did you get ALL. THESE. THINGS!?")

And when the 2005 movie was announced, I was ready. The old Narnia series had started in 1988 and ended in 1990. That was a respectful space of 15 years before a new adaptation. So much had changed. There was so much that could be modernized and improved upon.

The most recent Narnia movie came out in 2010.

How dare you make me do the math and realize that was 14 years ago? No, emotionally, that was five years ago.

It is honestly so rude of you to remind me of how old I am. And I will never forgive that, no matter how good the new series is.

I can’t do this anymore

[sunderwight]

It's wild to think that liushen probably has a bigger age gap than bingqiu. Especially by the end of the story.

Like, we don't have firm ages for anyone other than Luo Binghe, but we know Shen Yuan is vaguely in his twenties when he dies the first time, that the Qing generation of peak lords are all within a reasonable age range of one another, and that Yue Qingyuan was a grown adult when he helped seal Tianlang Jun under the mountain. And that this happened after Shen Qingqiu had been accepted into the sect and become the successor of Qing Jing Peak, which, consider Shen Jiu was considered a late addition and also that he presumably didn't climb the social hierarchy of his peak overnight, probably means Yue Qingyuan was closer to 30 than 20 when he fought Tianlang Jun (assuming they weren't even older than that).

Which would put the Qing generation around their 40's, most likely, by the start of the story. Probably mid-40's, which works out for simplification sake because that would mean the best guess is that Shen Yuan is about 10 years older than Luo Binghe at the start of the story, and Liu Qingge is about 20 years older than Shen Yuan.

I mean we could absolutely take more generous estimates to get it closer to one end of a range or another, especially for a particular fic or whatnot, but this is like, the most reasonable guesstimate without doing any of that. I think? I mean you could feasibly make the bingqiu age gap as small as six years or as big as fifteen without really defying canon, and if we want to be very generous to Liu Qingge we could say he's the youngest of the peak lord and just barely squeaked into their generation and is closer to 30 than 40 and shorten the liushen age gap to 10 years instead, but there's also no real reason to assume that either. All things being equal, Liu Qingge being like 45 seems to be more likely than him being 30 or than him being like, 100, even though both are technically possible (to be honest we don't even know if he's actually younger than Yue Qingyuan, since peak lord hierarchy is about the rank of your peak, not your actual age).

Anyway of course eventually Shen Yuan dies again and stays dead for a few years, Luo Binghe gets to catch up to him a bit but Liu Qingge keeps going. Which just widens the liushen age gap (whatever it is) while shortening the bingqiu one. So even if the liushen gap's closer to a 10 years than 20, by the end of the story it's still probably bigger than the bingqiu gap.

I think what makes this extra amusing is that nobody would enjoy the revelation of all this, though. Luo Binghe and his age gap kink would be appalled to learn that his shizun is barely older than him. Liu Qingge (who is firmly in the thick of things with his childhood-enemies-to-lovers arc) would also probably not take it well to find out that he's been unwittingly attempting to rob a cradle.

Nobody likes this!

[tlaquetzqui]

You know it occurs to me, “all goblins are based on antisemitic tropes” and “Narnia isn’t an intrinsically Christian story” are often said by the same people. And, like…Lewis is not subtle with his Christian allegory. It’s like half a step down from Pilgrim’s Progress actually naming the characters after what they symbolize.

If you can miss the symbolism Lewis absolutely beats you over the head with, why should we trust your claim to have spotted symbolism anywhere else?

[the-fab-fox]

Love Chronicles of Narnia or don't but I think we can ALL agree that this line is one of the hardest and g.o.a.t.iest to ever come out of Children's/YA fiction:

"Do not cite the Deep Magic to me, Witch. I was there when it was written." - Aslan

Like hot damn, Aslan. YASSS, QUEEN—I mean King. *bows respectfully*

Got any others to share? I'd love to see more! Perhaps get some good reading material to add to my list!

Please take a moment to read the note below the cut if the thing you are about to reply or reblog is anything religious in nature.

[Note: this post is a fun post about the books. DO NOT get into any religious debates or it will be deleted. I myself am a wiccan and have 15 gods who patron me ATM. You can find inspiration and happiness and meaning and enjoyment in things even if they weren't created specifically for you. Yes, it's a Christian allegory and quite frankly, the best IMHO. But if C.S. Lewis, a devout atheist-turned-Christian, and J.R.R. Tolkien, a passionate Catholic could be friends during the time of Lewis's atheism—a friendship based on truth of self and respect and understanding that two different beliefs can co-exist respectfully within the same space if allowed to do so—then people can enjoy books with certain religious themes and beliefs and not be compelled to change their beliefs because of it. Like if if happens and that's best for them, great. But we have our own agency. A book is not going to force me to change who I am. I decide what to take from the content. Not the other way around. Also Edmund is an amazing character and I'll hear no heresy about him. That is all.]

[kactusnz]

aslan HUNG HER OUT TO DRY because she matured like a NORMAL WOMAN instead of staying a child after being FLUNG BACK INTO HER WORLD after living HALF A LIFETIME as a QUEEN.

Dear Diary,

Today I cried for Susan Pevensie’s loss today.

[bisexualwintermoon]

not joking if those movies get big and i have to see even more shitty takes on narnia i am going to eventually snap. i dont want more people in my fucking house.

[divinecomedyproductions]

A new video where I give an alternative perspective of the causes of Fandom Tourism and Gatekeeping and the alternative solutions

[shinyalice]

The reason why Susan can't access Narnia is because she becomes fixated on the material world and loses focus on the spiritual one. That her interests are stereotypically feminine has nothing to do with it - the problem is that they are earthly and trivial.

realized that the "problem of susan" misinterpretation is going to explode when the new narnia reboot drops and started chomping at the bit

[eucatastrophicblues]

genuinely find it funny how Protestants lose their absolute shit because they think “hey Jesus being portrayed as a nonhuman lion is fine so long as that lion is male” is some kind of reasonable stance to hold. did they miss the discourse when Narnia was first published about Lewis’s insistence that Aslan was literally Jesus and not just analagous to Jesus, because a ton of people found that just as offensive as they find “Jesus can be portrayed by a woman”now.

you’re all stewing in your prejudices. genuinely. fix your hearts or God will fix them for you.

[rainintheevening]

Ooh, thanks for digging!

Then they'd probably get things like bananas and oranges from somewhere south of Calormen. (Now I'm trying to remember if any of those more tropical fruits get mentioned? I'm 99% certain oranges are somewhere...)

Do they have bananas in Narnia do you think? Or would they have to import them?

[fantastic-nonsense]

okay I am engaging in some public accountability because I have a ridiculous number of WIPs and I actually want to get some of them done. so I'm going to list out all of the WIPs I consider to be active, and by the end of the year I hope to have at least 5 of them finished and published

DCU:

Batfam PJO AU [outlining+writing stage, 500 words in]

Bruce, Harvey, and the RY1 Aftermath Fic [ideas stage, outlining]

Damian and Tim Time Travel [ideas stage, outlining]

Dick and Donna-5 Stages of Grief [ideas stage, outlining]

Donna and Tim Space-Time Road Trip [ideas stage, outlining]

Grayson+Ric Arc Fix It ft. Tim Trauma Run PART TWO [ideas stage, outlining]

Jason Paranormal Detective Agency WIP [outlining+writing, 1k words in]

Leave Me and Live (Jason) [writing, 7k words in]

Bruce Wayne Religion Discourse Fic [ideas stage, outlining]

The Rise of Oracle [outlining+writing, 800 words in]

To Look for Herself in the Sunrise (Cass) [writing, 5k words in]

universal donor (Dick) [ideas stage, outlining]

WW Antiquities Repatriation Saga [ideas stage, outlining]

Six of Crows:

Ghafa Parents Twoshot [ideas stage, outlining]

Horse Racing AU [outline done, 2k words in]

Kanej Snow Queen AU [ideas stage, outlining]

Kaz-Wesper Wedding Gift Fic [writing, 900 words in]

on the seas and in the city [outlining+writing, 4k words in]

Forced to Choose fic [writing, 19.5k words in]

To Build a Legend (Inej Knife Fic) [final editing stages, currently being published]

to love him is freedom (kanej) [writing, 7.6k words in]

Unorthodox Methods for Parenting Criminal Children [writing, 3k words in]

Other Fandoms:

Meanwhile in the Galactic Senate (Star Wars) [ideas stage, outlining]

The Last Jedi Reworking (Star Wars) [outline done, 3.5k words in]

De Rolo Trauma Electric Boogaloo (Critical Role/Legend of Vox Machina) [ideas stage, outlining]

De Rolo Favorite Siblings (Critical Role/Legend of Vox Machina) [ideas stage, outlining]

Susan Stays AU (Narnia) [outline done]

Problem of Susan Character Study (Narnia) [writing, 750 words in]

30 Years Later Interview (Hunger Games) [writing, 600 words in]

Endgame Revamp WIP (Marvel Cinematic Universe) [outline done]

[alliluyevas]

okay like. not to engage in children's book discourse but

I genuinely think if it took you until age 20 to pick up on the christian allegory in Narnia you might be stupid. I guess maybe if you're not raised with much exposure to Christianity at all it might be different, but I was definitely reading it at age 6 like oh this is just like the Bible. Narnia was literally more overtly and recognizably Christian to me than Adventures in Odyssey, which is a children's radio series produced by Focus on the Family that my evangelical aunt gifted us a bunch of cassettes of. The only children's media I was exposed to that was more explicitly religious than Narnia were Veggie Tales and my literal children's illustrated Bible.

[squarebracket-trickster]

Okay, this started as a rant on another post but then i figured it wasn't fair to inflict that on OP. I don't even know OP. So uhhh...

I am, at this point, completely convinced that the people who advise against headhopping, beige prose, purple prose, and infodumping, and the people who love headhopping, beige prose, purple prose, and infodumping are using two different definitions of the words.

Because do you really enjoy reading published novels where you can't tell whose thoughts belong to whom? Do you really enjoy prose that is choppy, vague, awkward, and lacks enough detail to actually follow the story? Do you really enjoy prose that keeps using big, fancy words but it is clear the author doesn't actually know what they mean, or uses run-on sentences that are dizzying to try and make sense of? Do you really enjoy having your high-paced action scene interrupted by 6 pages straight of technical jargon with absolutely no attempt to incorporate it naturally into the story (and like two paragraph breaks across the whole 6 pages)?

On the other hand...

Do you really hate every single case of Omniscient POV you have ever read - did you hate Narnia, A Series of Unfortunate Events, Pride and Prejudice because of the POV? Do you really find sparse, accessible, "quick and snappy" prose that off-putting? Do you hate poetry - can you seriously not think of any examples of vivid, flowing prose chalk-full of literary devices (metaphor, zeugma etc.) that spoke to you? Have you really never enjoyed a paragraph here and there where a scifi writer explains exactly how their weird alien is biologically possible? Have you? Do you?

(Okay, okay. I know this is Tumblr. If anyone actually bothers to read this rant (hahaha) some little edgy contrarian is going to appear in the notes eventually but IN GENERAL)...

Long story short I think we have two different definitions of all these terms running around.

Headhopping

When the narrator describes the thoughts of more than one character per paragraph (or scene).

When the narrator describes the thoughts of more than one character per paragraph (or scene) in a way that makes it difficult to tell who is thinking and experiences what. It is confusing to the reader.

Beige prose

Simple, sparse, accessible, to the point, only conveying the tip of the iceberg.

Choppy, awkward, vague, missing critical information, sacrificing clarity for the sake of simplicity.

Purple prose

Poetic, flowery and/or vivid language, long complex sentences, a tendency toward the dramatic.

Language that is "too flowery" - fancy, rare words used incorrectly, or which don't make sense given the tone, mood, atmosphere, genre, style etc, or which make it hard to follow what is happening. Run-ons and sentences that are dizzying to make sense of. Melodrama, aka dramatic without adequate build up.

Infodumping

Explaining details that aren't necessary for the story. Taking a few paragraphs, maybe a page or two, at an appropriate moment in the story (even a whole chapter if it is built-up to correctly). This can be in the text itself or it can be in an appendix or prologue (à la Concerning Hobbits)

Explaining details that aren't necessary for the story. Taking a few paragraphs, maybe even several pages, at an inappropriate moment in the story. It interrupts the flow and pacing. There is no effort to weave or incorporate the information into the story. It is just dumped there.

And yeah, I just think we could solve so much discourse if we acknowledged that we aren't all using the same definitions.

[who-canceled-roger-rabbit]

Necessary once again

One word. All you've been saying is quite right, I shouldn't wonder. I'm a gal who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won't deny any of what you said. But there's one thing more to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things—femininity and masculinity and identity and queerness and fluidity and gender itself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of an assigned sex is all I can be. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor way to be. And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play-world. I'm on the side of gender even if there isn't any gender to aspire to. I'm going to live as like a woman as I can even if I can never fully become one by your definition. So, thanking you kindly for your warnings, we're leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to spend our lives looking for our true selves. Not that our lives will be very long, I should think; but that's small loss if the world's as dull a place as you say.

the amount of faith it takes to transition and believe it can get better is holier than any church

[chaifootsteps]

the “let people LiKe THinGs!!! but only things i approve of!!!” is so true for vivziepop. i remember on twitter she was always liking tweets about how if didnt like [insert mlm hellaverse ship here] youre homophobic and dont understand love or good writing. or how she’d freak out over people shipping blitzstrike or charlastor. idk ive never seen a creator so actively involved in shipping discourse to the point she is like trying to direct people. like obv if ur writing canon couples you want your audience to ship them and like them together, but the way she is so…micromanagy is not something ive seen

Gotta break out the Chronicles of Narnia quote again!

You think freedom means doing what you like. Well, you're wrong. That isn't true freedom. True freedom means doing what I tell you.

[coimbrabertone]

Actions Have Consequences...Finally

Well, at the Mexican Grand Prix, Max Verstappen was being his usual self. Lando Norris got a run on him into turn four, went to the outside, and Max blatantly pushed him off the road. Lando swerves to the left, cutting the track, and then slows up to left the leader - Sainz - back through, but remains ahead of Max.

This evidently pissed Max off, since a few corners later in the esses, he pushes Lando off yet again to get ahead.

The first incident is more comparable to COTA 2024, but this one was closer to Interlagos 2021 as both cars were pushed completely off track and that's how Max made the move.

Max would get a ten second penalty for each of these incidents, leading to him sitting for twenty seconds ahead of his first pitstop. For a brief moment in the Mexican Grand Prix, the two Red Bulls were running last and second to last, as Perez was also having a stinker and a half.

This marked a clear departure from the stewarding decisions at Circuit of the Americas a week prior, and this has led to discourse, because of course it has.

Now, some of it is sensible, including calls for a consistent, permanent stewarding panel that travels from race to race.

Most of it, however, is just Max fans whining about getting an unfair penalty that "ruins racing."

First things first, Max has been getting away with this non-stop for his entire career.

Max Verstappen hitting Kimi Raikkonen and Sebastian Vettel at the start of the 2016 Belgian Grand Prix, then his moving twice under braking when defending from Max in the same race.

Singapore 2017, when a Schumacher-esque swerve by Vettel and a charge up the inside by Raikkonen led to Kimi, Max, and Vettel going three wide on a wet track. Max stayed in it despite a bad start, and this contributed to their turn one crash. This one isn't entirely on Max, but it's another example of how he'd rather have multiple cars crash than back out of a move.

Azerbaijan 2018, when Max moved late on the straight to block Daniel Ricciardo on the straight and led to that high-speed crash between the Red Bull teammates.

Austria 2019, when Max divebombed inside of Leclerc, they touched tyres, and he forced Leclerc wide (sound familiar?) to take the win.

The all-or-nothing racing with Lewis that he did in 2021 in Britain, in Italy, and in Saudi Arabia which almost felt like a race long meltdown by Max Verstappen as he made late and desperate moves to try and beat Hamilton. This is on top of Interlagos 2021, which I mentioned earlier, when he went off to Narnia with Lewis on his outside, forcing both of them wide as he didn't even attempt the force.

Then in 2022 and 2023, with Max having the fastest car in the world, this narrative started to form about Max growing up and improving his ways. Well, that went out the window in 2024, because when Max's car went to shit, the same old creature came out.

Austria 2024, when he and Norris crashed out, the aforementioned COTA 2024, and of course these double incidents at the Mexico City Grand Prix.

So the way I see it, Max getting penalties isn't a case of inconsistent stewarding, it's a case of him finally facing long overdue consequences.

Max has been doing this kind of stuff for years, and this take the inside, force the other guy off routine has been in his arsenal since the 2019 Austrian Grand Prix, at least, while the Mexico stuff he's used since the 2021 Brazilian Grand Prix. That's years and years of doing this kind of stuff. He has been making these over the line moves habitually.

He's a habitual line stepper.

Oh, but the Max defenders have an argument for that too. More of a whataboutism to be fair, but they claim that Max is doing the same things that Senna and Schumacher were celebrated for.

One: just because something has happened before doesn't make it okay.

Two: people absolutely hated the things that Senna and Schumacher did, and they faced consequences for their actions.

The Suzuka collision in 1989? Senna was disqualified from that very race for cutting across the track, denying him the chance to take advantage of taking out Prost.

Suzuka 1990? Prost called Senna's behavior disgusting and said that if this was how people were going to race, that he might as well just retire now.

For Schumacher, it's more of the same story.

Britain 1994? Schumacher passes Damon Hill on the formation lap, returns the position on the grid, but gets a five second stop-go penalty for the illegal, out-of-position on the parade lap move. Benetton told Schumacher to ignore this as they tried to appeal, going over the three lap threshold, getting the black flag, and then ignoring the black flag and instead trying to serve the initial stop-go penalty.

Schumacher was disqualified from the British Grand Prix and received a two-race ban. The team appealed the ban, but after Schumacher was disqualified yet again - this time for plank wear at the 1994 Belgian Grand Prix - the two-race ban was upheld.

Schumacher was disqualified twice and banned for two races in 1994 alone, and that was before taking out Damon Hill for the championship. The British press eviscerated him for this.

Then in 1997, with Ferrari, Schumacher had the Jacques Villeneuve incident in Jerez. The "you hit the wrong part of him Michael!" commentary was just the beginning of how the press laid into Michael for that one. He was considered a serial cheater by now, and the FIA seemed to agree, as he was disqualified for the entire 1997 season because of it.

Add Monaco 2006 and Hungary 2010 to the list as well.

Senna and Schumacher are your examples for forgiving Max Verstappen? Those are some of the most controversial drivers in F1 history, they're received plenty of hate, criticism, and harsh penalties. Therefore, it should be no surprise that Max is going to be treated the exact same way.

Actions have consequences.

Elsewhere in the racing world, the Thai MotoGP was pretty damn good - which is a relief since imo, last year was a bit of a snoozer - with Enea Bastianini winning the sprint, while in a chaotic wet race, Pecco Bagnaia triumphed over Jorge Martin, whilst Pedro Acosta put on a clinic in the final few laps to take third place.

Seriously, look up the Pedro Acosta/Jack Miller battle if you get the chance, because those two go side by side through the middle loop of the lap, racing hard, but racing fair. Everyone stays in the track limits, nobody gets crashed out, just a great battle between a Jack Miller who doesn't want to give up position, and a Pedro Acosta who is hungry for a podium.

Maybe Max could learn a thing or two from that.

As for NASCAR, unfortunately, I didn't see it. I was watching the Mexican Grand Prix and NASCAR was at the same time. It's the annoying time of year when racing series think it's a better idea to go against each other rather than challenging high and mighty football. That sucks because I think Homestead is a great track, but from what I hear, Tyler Reddick won.

Regular season champion into the final four. That's at least a decent bounce back after Logano went from out of the playoffs to championship contender in a week.