#no because i can deal with romantic interpretations of some of my other ships but these guys

[pinkfestivalpeanuttree]

me when a ship gets super popular all of a sudden but i see them as a very extremely specific flavor of queerplatonic and i have to deal with people gushing about how romantic their plot is everywhere all the time:

[ichayalovesyou]

Why Do Old-School TV Duos Have SUCH MLM Vibes?!

I think there’s something very specific about the formula and writing style of non-serialized/semi-serialized shows from the 60s to 80s that featured two grown men going on wacky dangerous adventures that makes my gay little literary analysis brain go absolutely off the wall bonkers. I’m trying to figure out why!

I’m writing this on my Trek blog because I don’t think this pattern in people actually shipping these types of relationships the way they do if fandom as we know it wasn’t born via TOS in syndication. That being said! I also think it has to do with the way these shows are designed that makes myself and others OBSESSED with a specific character dynamic that feels (to me) damn near impossible to replicate in modern television. In a way that’s more than just fandom, it’s in the way TV like this was written at the time!

Further explanation under the cut!

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

I think what it usually boils down to is this. There’s a charming protagonist whom without the series could not operate, frequently top billed or the title character! (See: Wild Wild West, Starsky & Hutch) BUT he doesn’t have anyone to play off of! So what do they do pretty much every single time? Give Mr. Idealized Vision of Time-Period Masculinity For Genre a second guy to rhyme with!

See but the other guy has to play opposite but parallel to our hypermasculine protagonist. So what frequently ends up happening is that in order to play off our “normal” guy, even though he’s also a white dude, is that he’s still somehow Other.

They’re always perfect for each other, and they always get into scenarios that would be written, shot and interpreted by conventional audiences as romantic IF either one of those characters were a woman! Especially at the time these shows were made in.

If the one is aggressive, the other is gentle. If the protagonist is violent, his counterpart is intellectual. If the one is stoic, the other is emotional. Which (while one size def doesn’t fit all) usually makes the second guy come off as much more queer-coded (and sometimes other minorities like neurodivergent/disabled etc) than the other because of the traits associated with masculinity vs gayness at the time! Our prime examples in these gifs are Spock, Hutch, Artemus, and also *BJ!

*(M*A*S*H is a bit of a unique case since the show flirts with queerness more openly in ways that people more into the series have explained better than me but I think it still fits the formula I’m discussing.)

Here’s the thing though right? We’ve got two best friends, and the show NEVER really feels right if one of them is missing unless the focus of the story is how A & B operate without each other while trying to find the other one. They stick with and rescue each other unfailingly in scenarios that might destroy a regular friendship.

Hell, there’s often stuff that would emotionally/physically destroy a regular person/character in modern media. But because it’s not serialized they always seem to pull through seemingly through the power of friendship alone or dealing with it off-screen! Emotional consequences? Yuck! (Unless it’s M*A*S*H or Starsky & Hutch, like I said, not monolithic)

Here’s the thing that some people might say throws a wrench into the interpretation I’m discussing. What about the absolutely non-stop parade of conventionally attractive women the main protagonist (and less frequently the supporting man) goes through?

I would reply: how many of those female characters actually emotionally impact our protagonists as characters long term?

The answer is of course, because it’s NOT serialized, almost none! Kirk can watch Edith Keeler get killed by a car accident and still be making eyes at Spock the next episode. Hawkeye can have a “life changing” romance with a Vietnamese humanitarian woman, then share a blanket with BJ next episode like she never existed!

The Doylist explanation of course is not just the fact it wasn’t serialized but also just, constant, blatant 20th century sexism. Which SUCKS!!! As well as not wanting a long term love interest to throw off the character dynamic of our duderagonists. It’s the 20th century tv equivalent of bros before hoes.

However the Watsonian explanation always seems to result in no love interest EVER being more important than what the two protagonists have no matter whether you think they’re queer or not. No attractive woman could make our reputed babe-hound protagonist abandon his buddy. There’s no earnest romance our more queer-coded supporting man doesn’t end (or get ended for him) often for the protagonist’s sake.

Now some of these women are incredibly well written and straight up GOOD matches for our guys. So why wouldn’t they get involved in something long term UNLESS!! They were in love with each other the WHOLE time?

What if protagonist (frequently the babe hound) doesnt know he’s queer, or knows but doesn’t know he’s in love with his bestie, or any number of similar fruity explanations? The supporting man also runs into this explanation but people tend to believe he’s already aware that he’s queer but either also doesn’t know he’s in love or is keeping it to himself because time-period homophobia and/or thinking (probably not unreasonably) that babe hound is straight?

Between the inherent closeness of being narrative foils. The regularly scheduled life or death drama creating sometimes insanely romantic (in the narrative if not a literal sense) drama between the two. The revolving door of weekly women they never seem to get attached to enough to leave one another. The non-serialized nature resulting in sparse personal information/history about the protagonists as a result.

I think between the very NATURE of the way tv shows were written at the time. Plus the way fandom was shaped by a dynamic that has rippled through how media works and is interpreted by fans for decades upon decades. It’s not hard to imagine getting really emotionally invested in the possibility of the protagonists being in love is a fantastic way to enjoy the media!

In conclusion, it’s really fun and easy to go “these bitches gay! Good for them good for them!”

[autisticmushroom]

10 Most Popular Gravity Falls Ships On AO3- An Analysis

This is literally. just a list with whether the ships are canon or not; whether they're objectively ethical, and my thoughts on them.

There are 24,854 tagged Gravity Falls fics out there; and the numbers below are based on those. This post is a long post... and contains mentions of incest and (what I consider) morally questionable relationships. This is because some of the top 10 ships consist of some of this. You've been warned. Oh, and there's The Book Of Bill spoilers here. Without further ado; lets begin.

1. Bill Cipher/Dipper Pines (BillDip) - 4539 tagged fics, 18.3% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Sworn enemies. Dipper hates Bill from the moment that he sees Bill and only makes a deal with him out of desperation. Bill has also possessed Dipper; giving Dipper trauma. Ethics: Bill is revealed to be more than a million years old in the Book of Bill and Dipper is 13. That's... quite an age gap. My thoughts: Yea; I HATE this ship. I don't understand the popularity.

2. Mabel Pines/Pacifica Northwest (Mabcifica) - 1277 tagged fics, 5.1% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Enemies to friends dynamic. Ethics: They're about same age, I don't have a problem with this. My Thoughts: It's cute! I can see why people ship this. I have a few hc's for it, but I definitely prefer Dipcifica

3. Dipper Pines/Pacifica Northwest (Dipcifica) - 1154 tagged fics, 4.6% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Enemies to friends dynamic. Hinted at in the show, the Gravity Falls coloring book, and Journal 3 that Dipper has a crush on her... and that the two end up in a romantic relationship. Ethics: They're about same age, I don't have a problem with this. My Thoughts: It's cute! I definitely ship it. I see it as a slow-burn thing; and both help make the other better. Mabel would definitely help match-make them.

4. Ford Pines/Stan Pines (Stancest)- 949 tagged fics, 3.8% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: They're BROTHERS. Ethics: um... this is incest. My Thoughts: I.... why is this so popular this is ridiculous to me.

5. Bill Cipher/Ford Pines (BillFord)- 759 tagged fics, 3.1% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Bill was Ford's "muse" and helped him build the portal. He later physically and mentally abused Ford. Ford spends years of his life chasing through the multiverse to defeat him; and later succeeds with the group in doing so in Weirdmageddon. However, The Book of Bill definitely has subtext for their early relationship that can be read as platonic or romantic. Ethics: They're both consenting adults- though one is a million years old dream demon. Very much abusive towards the end. My Thoughts: I wrote a whole essay on this!! Go check it out HERE. I ship them, but don't want to see shippy stuff *of* them unless its mostly angst. "Why do you ship this and not BillDip? It's still Bill.": Ford and Bill are adults, Dipper is a kid. There's subtext for this and not BillDip. Also Dipper started off hating Bill and the hatred only grew stronger; while Ford thought Bill was pretty cool at first.

6. Dipper Pines/Mabel Pines (Pinecest)- 727 tagged fics, 2.9% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: They're SIBLINGS. Ethics: uh... um... this is incest. My Thoughts: WHY ARE *BOTH* THE INCEST SHIPS MORE POPULAR THAN FIDDAUTHOR. is this because of that motherfucking taco bell story which we do not speak of?? WHY are incest ships EVEN ON the top 10 for a KIDS show. /rh

7. Fiddleford McGucket/Ford Pines (Fiddauthor)- 677 tagged fics, 2.7% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Went to college together, shared a dorm. Fiddleford (FF) later abandoned his wife and kids to go help with Ford's project... and then got mad at Ford after he briefly fell into the portal. He later makes up with Ford. Roommates -> Lab partners -> Not talking -> Friends. Some of the canon material could be interpreted as romantic or platonic. Ethics: When FF and Ford were in college, they would be the same age. However, when he's working with Ford on the portal, FF would be married and thus cheating on his wife. My Thoughts: I LOVE this ship. My favorite Gravity Falls ship. Some ppl see it as one-sided but I don't. Might have to write sth longer abt why I ship it later. I believe they dated in college and as lab partners and FF is gay and was in a lavender marriage to hide his sexuality.

8. Wendy Corduroy/Dipper Pines (Wendip)- 660 tagged fics, 2.7% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: Dipper crushes on Wendy for a while. She politely turns him down, stating that she's too old and doesn't like him romantically. Ethics: Dipper's 12 and Wendy's 15. Generally seen as an uncomfortable age gap. My Thoughts: I don't ship this. Alex Hirsch did SUCH a lovely job of creating this unrequited crush and having Dipper slowly get over it when he's turned down. And he also does such a good job at portraying why the age difference is awkward when Dipper goes back in time and Young Wendy thinks he's cute. I'm fine with it if they're aged up... BUT I still don't ship it.

9. Ford/Reader- 482 tagged fics, 1.9% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: N/A Ethics: N/A My Thoughts: Didn't expect this to be on the top 10. I don't have an opinion on romantic reader-insert fics from shows tho.

10. Dipper Pines/Wirt [from Over the Garden Wall] (Pinescone) -374 tagged fics, 1.5% of all tagged Gravity Falls fics. Canon: This is from a different show- so not canon. Ethics: He's 14 and Dipper's 13; so around the same age. My Thoughts: I have not seen Over The Garden Wall (OTGW)- but the wiki makes him sound kinda similar to Dipper. Don't know enough about OTGW to say any more. -- Disclaimer: (Mandatory to avoid ppl getting mad at me) - These stats may be the tiniest bit off rn. They were taken August 16th at ~3:30AM, UTC. People constantly are uploading new stuff to ao3, so the numbers change. - I'm not saying anything abt the people who ship any of these- just the ships themselves. I want to avoid that kettle of fish so don't bring me into it. My mindset on that is "let ppl ship whatever they want because free speech. BUT. tag that shit plainly and thoroughly so ppl don't have to see it if they don't want to and I don't get jump scared by it." - This is probably going to be one of my most controversial posts lmao. Cool! If you disagree with this post, then- tell me *why*, civilly, in the comments! I'm open to other's opinions and changing my mind! Also if you have any good Gravity Falls fanfics send them my way.

[offtorivendell]

On Elain, Gwyn and their apparent romantic worthiness.

TW: mentions of death, violent or sexual assault, infertility and pregnancy/childbirth related trauma. Please do not proceed if these topics bother you.

Disclaimer: please, please engage with this post with kindness. I promise I am not writing it to stir the pot, but because I - and many others - are fed up with seeing hurtful and harmful rhetoric spewed by the fandom, yet having no back up when dealing with it. Word vomit incoming, I'm sorry. This has been bothering me for a while.

My love to everyone who has been hurt by things they've read in this fandom. 💜

It's 2024 and I cannot believe we are still seeing posts, almost daily, about both of these women; all giving reasons why they cannot possibly be with Azriel. And I don't mean the debatable but utterly harmless discussions about Elain not looking good in black or Gwyn blabbing to Merrill when asked not to. Whatever, go nuts. I mean the truly horrific takes based around things these two women have had no control.

Now, my post history makes it very obvious where I stand in terms of ships, and yes, I'm well aware I've spoken before about the inherent power imbalance - that I perceive - which would exist if Azriel ever became involved with any of the priestesses in the women's shelter he is charged with protecting (to be clear, that's not me suggesting that Gwyn and her story isn't powerful, or powerful representation to those who see themselves in her, nor is it personal to Gwyn, or indicative of any of the sheltered priestesses and their ability to heal; it's purely a function of Azriel's position of authority over their sanctuary). I want to reiterate that my stating my feelings about this was never done with the intent to shame people who do ship them; we all ship who we like, and real world ethics should rarely come into it.

That being said, the following, in my opinion, is one of those times.

Firstly, I just want to say that lived experience informs how we interpret fiction, so please let me clarify something: the people who have said that they don't think Gwyn is ready for a relationship yet, and that NSFW fan art of her with anyone makes them uncomfortable, are not in any way in the wrong. They're simply the other side of the coin to those who find it empowering, and both are valid responses, often related to personal trauma. The problem lies with those very few who say that Gwyn could never have a romantic relationship, and call those who talk and/or post about it "gross." Some have called her "damaged goods." This is absolutely wrong and whoever is doing it needs to stop.

The entire fandom, even those who find romantic or NSFW content involving Gwyn uncomfortable to consume, frequently acknowledges that her trauma doesn't define her, and of course she should be able to enjoy love whenever she feels ready for it. Those who say otherwise are readily condemned from all corners. I've seen it happen and called the people out myself, as have many other Elriel shippers when necessary. However, Elriels are still very regularly and very publicly blamed for the actions of a few (some of whom I truly believe are burner accounts wanting to cause chaos, with their Elriel themed usernames and no post history), despite our largely collective action to call them out when we see it.

Could we do better? Absolutely, but so can you!

Because, on the other hand, I've noticed that, whenever I or others have tried to explain why the pliable bones "theory" - which attempts to reason that Elain could never be endgame with Azriel, as she and any baby would die during the course of pregnancy or childbirth - is equally as harmful, we are met with people publicly and wholeheartedly refusing to understand why (especially recently). Some horrific comments have been made to my friends, not to mention all of those I see well after the fact, which are never widely condemned by any but us. People will argue back that we're wrong, and have even suggested we're weaponising infertility! On Mothers' Day, of all the fucking painful days to say that.

Some of the push back I've seen recently includes:

"Nobody has said Elain is infertile."

No, nobody has, and that's not what we're saying or have ever said. We know you don't think this, as the Elucien fandom loves to write and draw Elain and Lucien's hypothetical future children (which is super understandable, as this is a romantasy fandom after all - no shame, enjoy your warm fuzzies).

What we are saying is that, if it's true that Elain's anatomy wasn't changed as Feyre and Nesta's was - and to be clear I cannot stand that entire plot, I wish SJM had chosen literally any other reason why Feyre's pregnancy was dangerous, as it is simultaneously degrading and doesn't fit with her previously established lore - then Elain and Azriel, together^, would be functionally infertile. Yet it's only ever framed as Elain's body not being able to work with Azriel's, never the other way around.*

^Why didn't the bat boys have to sacrifice their wings to keep their wives/mates safe? Why did the women have to change their anatomy? Because it would make it harder for them to be all powerful? Well Nesta sacrificed her powers! Why not just have Feyre be cursed by an enemy or something, and Nesta found a way to use the Dread Trove to save them all. Ugh. I love SJM's books, but this was such a miss.

*HOSAB/HOFAS SPOILER: funnily enough, this was never said about Ruhn and his eventual mate, even though he actually did think he may be unable to father children, thanks to the Oracle's prophecy. People shipped the hell out of him and a couple of different women throughout the CC series, despite the chance he could never get them pregnant.

"People haven't called Elain damaged goods, so it's not the same. We're allowed to not like her."

My faerie porn* lover in christ, what the fuck do you think the pliable bones "theory" is actually doing? It is suggesting that Elain's hypothetical inability to survive having children with Azriel, and for those children to also survive childbirth, is impaired. Ergo, she's damaged.

We don't care if you don't like Elain, we're allowed to have different preferences in characters and ships. That has never been the problem.

*I use this term with affection as a great lover of the genre.

But "damaged" vs a functionally "impaired" uterus? It's the same damn thing, and sorry, it's misogynistic af, not to mention ableist and homophobic at a minimum. In the same breath you are also reducing your favourite to her apparently functional uterus (even though the pliable bones argument is medically inaccurate, by the way - this is really damning of the state of health education across so many countries).

"Hahaha/lol."

Yes, I have seen people laugh and treat this as a joke. As recently as tonight, in fact. It's disgusting.

Regardless of your lived experiences and shipping preferences, both of these takes about Elain and Gwyn are equally degrading and horrific and need to stop, but if you're only calling out the comments that hurt you/your friends/your ship and not the others, then you should maybe attempt some basic self reflection and analyse those double standards you're carrying.

This entire fandom needs to do better. I'll say again, for the umpteenth time, to any of my fellow Elriels that if you think mocking Gwyn's past is funny, then you're not mature enough to read an adult series. But this works both ways, and if you think mocking infertility is funny/use it as a win, then you're just as immature. I would really and truly appreciate it if we were not left alone to argue over and over again why discriminating against someone who couldn't "have a man's children" is wrong, and why many, many people in this adult fandom - that is largely comprised of women! - might find such a theory, and the resulting discourse, incredibly upsetting.

Infertility hurts; not having a kid when you want one can be viscerally painful. Besides that, I know very few people who have given birth who don't carry around some sort of emotional or physical trauma from doing so. Treating a character's hypothetical infertility with one man as a joke is gross.

Please don't call Gwyn "damaged goods" or suggest that Azriel would choose somebody else over Elain because she couldn't have his kids.

They are the same thing.

It's not hard to be kind. Pain is not a competition.

We should all do better, and take care of each other.

[catsharky]

Wanted to post these separate from my Art Fight post because I spent too long on these references (really just Fallstreak's tbh) to keep them hidden away on the AF site. Also cause I love these guys and I haven't really talked about them much on here.

So for anyone who was curious about the previous art I posted of these OCs, have some actual information about them!

Nell

Full name Abnell Roache (will also accept 'Nella', but loathes being called 'Nelly'). A health and safety inspector for an interstellar cargo company, Nell becomes stranded on an ocean planet when the ship she's auditing- the ACS Endurance- experiences a catastrophic engine failure and tears itself in two.

Adrift on an endless alien sea with no guarantee of rescue and little emergency food, she has to survive with the help of Bas: an (illegal) AI inhabiting the chassis of her life pod's survival assistant. With her only goals being survival and finding any other survivors, she's unprepared to find herself making humanity's first contact with another sapient species; an alien biologist named Fallstreak who has also found himself trapped on the planet. 

She's thrilled to learn about Fallstreak and his people, as well as teach him as much as she can about humanity, and if she has an immediate, massively obvious crush on the tall faceless alien? Well, the only other person there to complain is Bas. Which he does. A lot.

Bas (Pronounced 'Baz')

An illegal AI inhabiting the chassis of a life pod survival assistant (though to clarify, in this universe all true AI are illegal because they require a human brain scan to be made and that's a legal rights nightmare). After years of only knowing his 'father', Richter (the engineer aboard the Endurance who purchased and programmed him), he boots up to find his home destroyed, his father dead, and himself in the company of a total stranger; Nell. 

He has a lot to deal with: keeping Nell alive, figuring out how to interact with someone other than Richter while also mourning his death, and acting as a middle-man/interpreter between Nell (who he has rapidly developed what seem to be romantic feelings towards) and Fallstreak (an alien biologist who's captured Nell's interest without even knowing what he has). 

And to top it all off? He has a text-to-speech Australian accent.

Fallstreak

An alien biologist with a bio-mechanical body, named after the cloud formation (look up 'Fallstreak holes', they're neat!) that most closely resembled an event that occurred on the day of his birth.

Extremely curious and wants to learn everything about his two new companions, as well as share his knowledge with them. Verbal language is all but entirely unused by his species, however, so the language barrier between Fallstreak and Nell+Bas is a large one. Thanks to Bas' assistance, he's able to understand spoken communication fairly well, and speaks (in very broken sentence structure) by vibrating the membranes in his gill openings, resulting in a voice that sounds somewhat like early English vocaloids; understandable but clearly not a natural voice.

Living a fairly solitary life isn't uncommon for his species, and he hasn't had the opportunity to experience romantic interest before, so when he meets Nell and begins to fall for her, he's more than a little confused (oblivious) about what his emotions are doing. Unfortunately draws some jealous ire from Bas as a result, but is pretty oblivious to the AI's attempted rivalry. 

--

All three of these guys are from a WIP comic called The Rive that I hope to finish some day. I have most of the story figured out, and quite a bit of it scripted and ready to go, I just need to actually draw the damn thing.

[fermiomoriblog]

The pitfalls of every Sunny ship

Diving straight into the hot coals with the first post. But it has been on my mind lately.

The setup in Omori is naturally quite mentally (and in some cases physically) taxing on every main cast character, and a shipper can very easily be overenthusiastic about getting a "happy ending" for their preferred pair, glossing over inconvenient problems and dynamics. I think that it really is rather contrary to the game's themes that this occurs, but it is also understandable that not everybody does a full psychoanalysis of every plot point in their story. I'll list some "common" problems I've personally encountered with people making content about sunburn, suntan and sunflower. I'm more familiar with the dynamics common on ao3 than elsewhere, so if you have any other observations or things to add, please feel free to do so.

# OMORI SPOILERS BELOW #

Sunburn

The "canon" ship. The fact that the ship is explicitly mentioned in game means that the ship is viewed as the "default", and it can lead to some lazy dynamics or lack of justification. You have to remember that no matter what headspace says (and headspace says a lot of things that aren't true), the first thing Sunny and Aubrey did after four years is beat the shit out of each other. Sunny knows nothing about the Hooligans, even though we do, and Aubrey thinks Sunny abandoned her (which is a feeling unlikely to abate after the truth). There needs to be basis for the ship as well - they aren't going to just pick up where they left off (presuming they had anything to leave off in the first place) right away. Which leads us to the first common problem:

Basing the relationship entirely on the past

This is the default reaction and requires the least writing creativity, so it is not surprising that it is common. Simply porting the HS dynamic or the swing scene to the future and copy-pasting is fun and cute and all, but it ignores the fact that both Sunny and Aubrey have changed massively. There's a lot of guilt that is going around, both with Sunny for obvious reasons and Aubrey for pushing Basil in the lake, and Aubrey has a bunch of new, closer friends whom depending on your interpretation are either theatre kids or delinquents. This is not really just going to get talked away on the swing set - they involve third parties.

I would venture to argue that this is actually a very problematic pitfall, despite it being generally not a very serious transgression in real life. Omori, as a game, is about moving on from the past. If you write a fic where the characters forget about bad things in the past but hang on like hell to the good things... that's Headspace. You've just put Sunny in a new Headspace.

Getting Basil out of the way

Even among sunburn/suntan shippers, it is pretty generally accepted that Basil was somewhat attached to Sunny even before the accident. So if you don't want to do sunflower, how do you deal with that?

You can write angst, where Aubrey and Basil end up fighting over Sunny. Weirdly, I've never seen this actually happen (probably because it's too heartbreaking). You can have Basil go to therapy, and get rid of an unhealthy attachment. You can also go the seriously angsty route of Basil hating Sunny for abandonment, Sunny hating Basil for his role in the incident, or a less intense version which just puts a barrier between the two. You can also have Sunny reject Basil. Or you can argue that the attachment was platonic, which is entirely fair.

What you cannot do is have Basil be romantically interested in Sunny, but "get out of the way" for Aubrey "so that Sunny can be happy". Or, well, you can do that, but you can't frame it as anything but serious angst from Basil's POV.

Unfortunately, many, many "pure fluff" Sunburn fics do this, because "pure fluff" fics don't want to untangle the whole thing as most methods involve some degree of emotional turnmoil. This is no ordinary infautation - Basil has waited for Sunny for four years. Nursing unrequited love like that is really, really painful. It is certainly not something that someone with Basil's character and history can do with a smile on their face. If you need any further convincing, I point you to Note to Self: Don't Be Gay in Faraway Town by witheredahlia.

A version of this which I think is a lesser sin (because it is at least framed with some nuance), but a sin regardless, is Aubrey getting annoyed at Basil for "stealing" Sunny's attention from her. This gets dangerously close to the reddit comments you see about "the friend group will be better off if Basil never joined".

Suntan

Despite sunburn being the "canon" and sunflower being the natural alternative, I actually think that this is the default. After all, Kel was the one to bring Sunny out, generally saving his life, and is his first friend, etc. Kel is also a clean slate character, with nothing anyone can particularly hold against them, and as a result suntan is the "healthiest", "least questionable" ship. This commits the customary mistake of believing Kel's parents when they say "eh, it's Kel, he'll be fine".

"Kel's fine"

No, he's not. He's spent the better part of four years trying to forget the happiest times of his childhood, and has been going around doing nothing but fixing and saving other people, putting others' needs far above his own, for the entirety of pre-canon and foreseeably for a good part of post canon as well. Suntan, especially with Sunny still in a vulnerable state post-canon, can very easily be written into Kel being Sunny's unpaid, untrained therapist, and his mood/health being Kel's only/majority source of validation. Kel's self-worth independent of his friends needs addressing and development, and without a lot of development, Sunny alone is not really equipped to provide that.

In all fairness, while I would be somewhat confident in saying that the majority of canon-compliant sunburn fics run into the problems above, suntan fics do usually handle it better. That might just be because there aren't that many suntan fics though.

Sunflower

It goes without saying that sunflower has the highest potential to be unhealthy. But precisely because of that fact, people writing sunflower are usually very careful to address it. Either the fic is written as a work exploring codependency/attachment/trauma/other general unhealthiness (which you can make your own judgement on whether it's a legitimate art form or problematic), or there is at minimum an attempt at pacing, therapy and general juggling of the various mental issues the game leaves Sunny and Basil with (for a shining example, see These Days Without You by Smitty1899, my go to answer for when anyone says "but sunflower toxic!!1!").

The issues that can make sunflower unhealthy and problematic are generally pretty obvious - shared crime, codependency and attachment, commitment and abandonment issues, and the whole "getting together before their friends forgive them" thing (which can still be done well, but from the POV of especially Hero can be kind of eh, and unlikely to be conducive to a healthy relationship given that it kind of depends on their friends' pending "approval".) As a result, there aren't a lot of works that don't address them in one manner or another. However, I do think there is one major pitfall that some fics fall into in the other direction:

Having everything in the relationship be dependent on someone else's approval.

In an attempt to make sunflower as healthy as possible, some authors make it so that Sunny and Basil effectively never make decisions on their own. There's always a third party present to psychoanalyse them, tell them what's fine and what's not, etc. and every step they make in their relationship is with the express blessing, support and help of the rest of their friends. The problem is, that's not healthy either.

I feel that the value of sunflower is greatest in the context of the themes of the game of moving on and forgiveness. Making it so that Sunny and Basil hang on to their guilt forever and robbing them of any "right" to decide for themselves what makes them happy is very much contrary to that - they're on crutches for the rest of their lives, and the point of the good ending is the hope that they won't need to be. It also is just not a good thing for any third party to intervene so extensively in a relationship.

Conclusion

Omori is emotionally deep, with many, many themes to explore. Ships in Omori have unique meanings and themes, which in a canon compliant context is quite hard to simply wipe away. Rushing into a ship with insufficient pacing and development, which works in "cute" fandoms, generally leaves lots of outstanding holes in Omori.

This post doesn't necessarily mean that I think less of any particular ship mentioned - to reiterate, every ship has unique meanings and themes which is interesting to explore and form a part of the message of the game. It is however true that some pitfalls in some ships are easier to fall in, and overlooked, than others, and the obvious problems get a lot more bashing than the non-obvious ones. (Yes, sunflower bias. Sue me.)

And of course, in a plotless or AU context, cute art is cute art.

[harley-rose25]

In which I give the longest explanation of my opinions on Eremika and why I don't like it.

If you see my other AoT post, I likely give the impression of being a hardcore eremika anti; and while I'm not clearly not a fan of the ship I also don't believe that it just came out of nowhere, or was completely unexpected; like some eremika antis seem to think. Seasons 1-3 I honestly expected an eremika ending. Season 3 I had some thoughts that maybe we were getting a erehisu instead, but ultimately I assumed either an eremika or a no-pairing ending even by the end of season 3.

This is not because I thought the ship was built up well or had really good moments pointing towards a mutual romance/love. There are some moments where Eren shows some level of care or affection towards Mikasa; but, to me, it doesn't come off like he's in love with her. It can be interpreted that way, but I felt it was more like showing general platonic care and that those more romantic feeling could be built up or in some cases like his feelings were moving in that direction. The reason I assumed it was the most likely end game ship if there was to be a ship is because of other cannon ships where one character is in love, often obsessively so with the other and the other is either oblivious, doesn't really care, or actively seems to dislike them until the end of the series when suddenly they're also in love. ie; Sakura and Sasuke, Hinata and Naruto, Aang and Katara. Eren and Mikasa dynamic reminded me of these, especially Sakura and Sasuke.

My main issues with the eremika ship are: 1. how it compares to erehisu; Eren and Mikasa do have deep emotional moment together but Eren and Historia have deep emotional moment because of each other. That is, Eren's emotional moment with Mikasa would be just as emotional even if she wasn't there, where as Historia is integral to the moments she has with Eren. In season 4 the erehisu ship is really build up by how desperate Eren is to protect Historia, how he angrily jumps to her defense, how he's shown visiting her at the farm, how he smiles at her and no one else. Even other characters notice this; in season 3 Jean tells Eren he should stop holding hands with Historia all the time (I'm aware that the hand holding was because they were trying to get more memories/activate the founding titan, but it means that Eren and Historia had a lot of confirmed off screen time together), and in season 4 Hange looks at Eren smiling at Historia and then later tells Eren that She thought He would never sacrifice Historia; strongly indicating an assumption of a deeper level of care. All in all I think erehisu had better scenes to building a relationship of mutual care and understanding and also better scenes showing that Eren cares about Historia in a way that isn't shown with anyone else (save maybe Armin) This means that when we end up with eremika now it feels a little cheap or just off. If we got more moments showing a deeper level of care and understand between Eren and Mikasa or if The moments between Eren and Historia, and Erens reactions to Historia didn't have so much weight then an eremika ending would make more sense.

reason number 2: What it does to Mikasas character; Mikasa's love for Eren seems born out of an obsession that comes from losing her parent in a violent murder/kidnapping and then being saved by him. This is then compounded when Eren's mom dies since she was like an adoptive mother to Mikasa. She's a traumatized young girl who never actually deals with her trauma and instead hyperfixates on Eren. Mikasa entire character arc is her chasing after Eren like a neglected dog until that one scene where for like 5 minutes she finally starts to see Eren for the violent psychopath he actually is and questions what she had seen in him; but never mind that because she's back to being so obsessively in love with him that even after he dies she spends that rest of her life visiting his grave with her (probably husband and kids) and also never takes off that scarf.

reason number 3: Mikasa doesn't understand Eren. People argue that Mikasa understood Eren in a different ways, that she understood certain parts of him, but that's literally just admitting that there's clearly parts of Eren she doesn't understand. Actually, I'd argue that as its depicted Mikasa doesn't seem to understand Eren on a fundamental level. Examples: When he failed at the initial ODM gear test she told him to give up being a soldier and then went on to say that he needn't drop out alone, that she would be following him; when he passed the ODM gear test she says that he's relieved that he wont be separated from her. She assumes that the reason he'd be upset about failing to make it as a soldier is related specifically to her and not wanting to be apart from her; When Connie is angry about Eren laughing after Sasha's death he asks Mikasa why he would do that and she can't answer; despite the fact that she's witnessed him laughing in an emotional and traumatic situation before and should have been able to understand that he does it as a coping mechanism. She'd also completely blind to his obvious anti-social personality disorder (psychopathy), though to be fair so is everyone else including most Eren stans. (like, I love Eren, I stan Eren but he is like text book certifiably ASPD psychopathic)

[orionsangel86]

I have been doing this meta analysis thing for a long time now and one thing that I have always tried to make clear in meta analysis is that for it to be taken seriously you must keep your personal biases out of it. You must come at it as objective as possible.

Rant under the cut

Its not always easy to do when you are dealing with difficult topics, or shining unfavourable lights on characters you love, or coming to conclusions that you werent expecting (recent meta discussions about Morpheus in the Sandman comics would fall into these categories).

What meta analysis should never be used for is to back up ship wars or specifically to shame fandoms for liking certain characters. If the meta isnt providing valid evidence to support the interpretations, and instead has fallen into name calling and mockery of fandom, its no longer valid meta.

I got this ALL the time in SPN fandom. Destiel was a huge fandom but as meta writers we stuck with what we were given by the source material and interpreted it with valid evidence. We understood that multiple interpretations were possible but we made sure that whatever we were analysing made sense and had some source backing. This wasnt always the case because meta writers are not a monolith, but the bigger blogs who wrote meta frequently at least understood this and would not be stretching to support their own claims if canon didnt back it up. Now no one is perfect of course, but the point is, proper meta writers understand that where they make a claim or interpretation of the source material, they have to site examples and evidence to back up their claims and also take into consideration any evidence to the contrary.

The people who hated destiel and made that their entire personalities didnt do that so much. I read a lot of their meta out of curiosity and every time I was baffled by where they were getting their claims. 'Destiel is necrophilia" was a big one which canon disproved almost straight away in season 5. "Destiel is rape" was another because Cas was using Jimmy as a vessel and yet canon confirmed Jimmy died at the end of season 4. Cas' body was remade by God in season 5 and has remained his own ever since. These are just two of the ridiculous examples supposed "meta writers" among the destiel hater communities would come up with and still use today.

I find it extremely infuriating when I see character/ship hate loosely disguised as meta analysis. I can give people the benefit of the doubt a lot of the time, as fandoms are usually highly emotional spaces, but when there is zero canon evidence to support the claims, when connections are being made on the absolute thinnest of threads, and when far more obvious interpretations are being clearly ignored to support certain viewpoints in such a stunningly obvious case of confirmation bias I have to throw in the towel and stop taking said meta seriously.

One thing I have loved about Sandman fandom so far is the meta. It's such a rich text to analyse, and the show adds an entirely new level to it which makes it all the more enjoyable. I've made no secret of my support for Dreamling and I wrote a very long meta series on Dreamling and how the show in particular uses certain tropes, symbolism, visual storytelling cues, and music, to name a few, to overload a 25 minute sequence with queer coding. It is completely understandable to me why anyone going into the show even without thinking about shipping, would feel like Dreamling hit them like a brick to the face. The creators weren't subtle with it.

Its also totally valid to find romantic interpretations of other pairings within the Sandman. I personally think Morpheus x Johanna was laid on pretty thickly. Morpheus x Lucienne is equally an interesting ship to analyse. But heres the thing, if you ship these other ships and are frustrated that Dreamling has "taken over" thats valid. I get it. I would like more focus on the other characters too. I would particularly like to talk about Lucienne x Gault and have a meta piece in progress about them.

Whats not okay however is for other shippers and people frustrated with Dreamling to go the way of the Destiel antis. Dont make shit up that has no basis in canon just because you need some moral high ground to shit all over the ship you hate. Don't call fans that see Dreamling "deluded" for seeing it. They aren't deluded. It's right there in the subtext. Dont resort to name calling and "gotchas" and use inflammatory language to bait people. And please, I'm begging you, stop claiming that people who ship Dreamling are somehow all overly fragile white racists. You're wrong.

The racism discussions about Hob's past have their place, but these things ARE being discussed, if anything I feel this fandom has done a far better job of handling the issues of slavery than another popular fandom has (looking at you OFMD). No one is forgiving Hob for his slaver past. But you have to acknowledge that the entire point of the story in The Sandman is about change, and growth, and how we can become better people. As another excellent short meta post stated recently "we are more than the sum of our transgressions". The Sandman is all about the shades of grey. No one is morally righteous, but most characters are not completely morally bankrupt either.

Hob Gadling is a controversial character who is often misunderstood by fandom but anyone with proper critical thinking skills and a decent understanding of what meta analysis is, should understand that Hob is a metaphor for humanity first and foremost. He is the average everyman from the perspective of an Englishman and therefore above all else to understand Hob you have to look to England, to Englands history, and to its current status in the world. A lot of blood on its hands yes, but also at least a century of trying to make up for it, a leader in the world in human rights and trying to do better. I have to believe that about this country, so I believe it about Hob too. Whilst I'm not interesting in getting into huge geopolitical debates about England, I hope that we can all agree that the average Englishman today is not a blood thirsty evil slaver/rapist/murderer or whatever else ive seen people accuse Hob of being even in his modern era.

We can argue the faults of the show downplaying slavery for sure. Its a valid criticsm. We can argue that not enough time was given in the show to show that Hob had changed and regretted his former actions. We can critique these things based on what the show has and has not told us, and also pepper in information provided in the comics and what we know about future Hob panels as well.

But when it comes to the blank spaces in between frames, in between cut screens, we can do whatever we like. Because that is where meta analysis ends and fanfiction begins. You wanna write about Hob joining the abolitionist movement and fighting hard to end slavery? You can. You wanna write about him ignoring Dreams advice and continuing to be a brutal slaver right up until slavery was ended in England sure, you go for it. But don't call either of these "headcanons" meta analysis.

Dont use meta analysis as a cover to shit on fandom. The minute you resort to name calling and mockery its no longer meta. No matter how frustrated or upset you are with the current fandom situation. There is always space to criticise fandom. But ask yourself what your end goal is here? What are you trying to achieve? Is it truly because you are on a righteous path to end fandom racism? Or do you just really hate a popular ship and want people to stop shipping it? If it's the former, then focus on that, ask what solutions we can put in place? Where we can truly tackle it on a larger scale, raising awareness of things that people may not realise are racist but are common tropes in fandom (like how making female characters all mothers or sassy gay best friends is misogynistic or how certain stereotypes in fantasy creatures are anti semitic) but if its the latter, then its disingenuous to use racism in fandom as a shield to hide your ship hate. It reduces an important topic to something shallow and irrelevant.

In ending this rant I will just say this. I'm not interested in engaging further on this topic. I'm legit gonna start blocking if anyone attempts to twist my words here. The civil discussions on this matter ended when people started name calling and flinging around accusations without basis. I am more than happy to engage separately in ways to improve fandom spaces for poc, because thats important, but ship hating has no place in that discussion. Drop that aspect, and there'll be less resistance in these topics.

[olderthannetfic]

(spellchecking this was a nightmare; I got sent this a while back as a response to a topic I commented on, where I basically agreed there is an oversaturation issue of a specific nature form not friendly people making the community they clam to be supporting look bad in the process. I agree with them but what is your take?)

First off no hate intended but I sometimes forget form past experiences that Mod (s) form a specific blog get bit heated around the shipper issue. (Fujoshi is the proper term for this specific shipper type; but tumblr has issues with that term being used in its proper context. there is actually a darker reason why this became a term its a Idol culture rabbit hole to be saved for later.) As for the topic I genuinely believe that they can't really relate to this topic without proper context. A great deal of this is probably because they defend who they should not and I will do my best to explain this issue without calling anyone out. No hate intended, I like to see the best in people and encourage that to grow more as individuals. The fandom in question is pretty small but the issue is not. There are other fandoms that can relate thou this one is for a game genre. I can't fathom why people defend other users for this horrible behavior towards others just because they ship the only popular guy on guy ship in the fandom.

Lets start by providing context, there are two different types of user here the kind that just mind their business and enjoy their ship, these ones are not the issue, and (lets call them Troublemakers since tumblr hates the term. The term literally means "Filthy Girl" and more importantly I know why it means this but that is somewhat irrelevant here and not the topic.) Basically I really want to understand why no one is calling out their vile behavior because to me its just as bad to not hold them accountable for the bad things they do just because they throw around a trigger or two. I am not saying they can not better themselves, just that not frowning upon their actions does not help them.

Sorry for the long clarification I just wanted to make this clear before getting to the topic because this is about a specific set of individuals, not he group as a whole and I think some people forget that this is a thing with said group. The inconvenient truth is there is a good and bad way to handle it, ignoring the issue and praying it goes away is not a way to handle it.

NOW FOR THE STORY: Because it is a general issue we shall improvise with names, it also makes cleanup easer). In this Game story the ML (Author) and the FL (Gwen) are portrayed as having a deeper bond, the only other character (Lance) also has a deep bond but is a different relationship entirely and you can tell form the interactions hinted at the the deep lore.

During the course of the story Lance becomes cannon fodder for Author's development after he makes a bad deal; yet his tragedy is not a total loss for Lance as lore in this story says Lance IS able to warn Author of a plot form his father that would lead to Author being turned into a literal human puppet.

Here is where the Trublemakers come in, They have been drawing people into the fandom claiming that a offshoot of the story in question that is teased could be centered around Author and Lance as a couple to spite the writers of this series saying if Author were to get with anyone it would be Gwen.

They also mention that is not where they want Authors story to go. Basically developers were saying that the romantic openness is just that an openness to interpret the relationship as romantic and something they only put with Gwen and Author. They also clarify that Authors relationship with Lance before Author has to end him is a "Brothers in Arms" one thou they are very close as friends they are not romantic.

Lances story is meant to be a tragedy as you discover Lance was not in the best of health in the game he even says he "Made a deal with a devil and regrets it" and it is hinted that this deal has taken his freedom form him rendering Lance nothing more than a tool for the Antagonist to use against Author in the end. When Author makes the final blow Lance thanks him for finally freeing him form his terrible fate. This isn't to dog on the ship but in the end the issue is the Trublemakers are ruining the chances of this small fandom to grow by trying push that this is a canon Pairing when its a tragedy that was meant to grow the Protagonists resentment towards his father who is hinted as being the devil in question. Something that is meant to progress to the final confrontation where the protagonist is given a choice to side with his father (become the human puppet) or rebel against him which leads to his fathers tragic end after the epic final battle of this story. This series is NOT sunshine and rainbows it is classified as a Dark Fantasy hence why we using fantasy references. and Cannon fodder like Lance is common in this genre. The concern is that the Trublemakers are creating false expectations for incoming fans about the series; sadly Lance is not likely to come back, thou he was developed as a character who could, as it is made abundantly clear that Lance in the end found his freedom in his passing. The Bad actors are making light of the fact Lance sacrificed himself to Warn Author and is in some since disrespectful to the writers as well who are trying to not falsely advertise the games story or genre. Oh but it gets worse; in the fandoms they are literally intimidating and bothering fans that refuse to shill the ship going after people who just do not post the things and that could be any reason what so ever there. It could even be personal preference we are talking full on attack mode, hiding behind a gray face, trashing people behind their back to people they interact with exc. So enter my dilemma; am I really wrong for thinking this behavior is bad? I do not feel as if its right to consider my stance here flawed or worthy of scorn and hate. My concern is not the ship existing but the bad actors that are in it being coddled when they behave just as vile as the "Unicorns" in the Idol fanbase trying to force real people to bone to appease their single sex couple fetishes. (That is literally why its so bad I did say it was a Rabbit hole, thou the term Hole is a gorse understatement of how deep.)

--

Ahahaha. What the actual fuck is this?

Am I understanding you that most of this is a c&p of something you received? Okay, then, let's break it down.

Okay, big picture:

It is bad to pressure creators to make your ship canon.

It is bad to pressure other fans to ship your ship or harass them for not posting enough about it.

But as for this little essay, no, of course I don't agree with it: It's so full of red flags it has barely any room for anything but red flags.

'Fujoshi' has a ~darker reason~? What? The history is simple: 2chan bros used a rude but kind of funny pun for women who were "spoiled"—i.e. undatable—because they liked m/m content. Those women found the pun amusing and reclaimed it for themselves. The end.

It's just the 'fu' from 'tofu' and is a pun on a homonym, 婦女子, that refers to a married woman. It's "rotten" like food going bad, not like moral depravity (though I'm sure the 2chan bros do think it's morally depraved for women not to cater to them).

Right off the bat, this is a red flag because it's trying to hint at some dark depths here that just are not present and are not a big deal. It's trying to set up a tone that the author has Special Knowledge and we should just trust them. Sheesh.

I am not saying they can not better themselves

And here we dive straight into "I'm just trying to help you" bullshit. This is condescending and creepy.

The description of the canon is convoluted and pointless. Brothers in arms is the main driver of oldschool m/m ships. Yes, of fucking course people are going to ship this.

"Baww, the creators said they didn't mean it that way!" What the actual fuck is this? Who cares what the creators think? Why is this essay fellating the idea of canon compliance?

"The het subtext was intentional!!!" is not an argument that anybody should be making because there is literally no reason fans should care which subtext was intentional when it comes to whether they ship something.

Almost the entire description of the canon could have been cut out to just leave:

"They have been drawing people into the fandom claiming that a offshoot of the story in question that is teased could be centered around Author and Lance as a couple to spite the writers of this series saying if Author were to get with anyone it would be Gwen."

Now... I think the second half of that is a reach. Are they actually doing it out of spite? What's the evidence? Canon's plot is not evidence.

Tinhats are a plague everywhere, they aren't usually doing it out of spite, and they aren't all m/m shippers. It's far more likely that a bunch of dummies are seeing shippy potential and extrapolating to think it's intentional and leading somewhere. Sherlock fandom was full of this. Many fandoms are.

But regardless, the first half does make sense as a complaint. If I'm understanding the situation correctly, some fans are bringing in new fans with false promises of canon m/m.

in the end the issue is the Trublemakers are ruining the chances of this small fandom to grow by trying push that this is a canon Pairing when its a tragedy that

Okay, you've lost me. You've lost every fan with a single particle of sense.

Don't talk about fandoms like you're talking about the third quarter profits of a corporation. That's obnoxious nonsense.

Either your fandom will grow organically or, most likely, it will not. Some annoying m/m shippers aren't the real reason: the fact that most things don't get that popular is the real reason.

Why aren't the het shippers or the gen fans able to draw in more people? Maybe the m/m ship is more interesting. Maybe these other fans should make more of an effort if they really want to treat fandom as a job or religious evangelism.

And moreover, who says tragedy and ships are opposites? Even canon ships! Even canon ships where someone died!

Look, I believe you/the person you're c&ping that this particular canon is not gearing up for "Lance" to come back, but considering how many fujoshi are still creaming themselves over The Untamed or Scum Villain, I really do not think that one of the dudes falling off a cliff or even dying for real is much of an impediment.

This is Tumblr, dude. Have you not seen that "Your greatest enemy will rise from the grave and never leave you alone" story? Come the fuck on!

If the canon's creators wanted to bring Lance back and make this BL, they could. If they prefer not to, that's fine.

The issue is entitled fans demanding that their vision be the creators' vision. Full stop.

The minute you try to hand-wring about the m/m aspect of it, you sound like a homophobic and/or misogynist douchebag. It does not matter what specific thing the demanding fans are demanding. It only matters if they're harassing people.

their single sex couple fetishes

And now we have the mother of all red flags!

Having sexual fantasies is not a ~fetish~. Clowns who think it is are not to be trusted. Does this person (you?) think that, what, idol band RPF fandoms are where the concept or term 'fujoshi' comes from? I have bad news about the levels of bonkers stalker bullshit the band guy/female self shippers pull, not to mention the bullying by people who just like a group and don't want anyone to like them the "wrong" way.

The issue is not horny thoughts. The issue is bullying and harassment.

What I'm hearing here is "Wah, wah, waaaah. Other fans of the game I like keep inviting their friends, and they all ship a ship I don't like! Won't someone think of the (near) canon het!"

That shit was tired and old in the 1970s. It's worse now.

--

If you cannot describe the harassment without resorting to all of this anti-m/m nonsense, you're never going to convince anyone that there's a problem.

If the issue is "These tinhats say X is going to be canon, but the creators have said it's not", ditch the other shit and just say that part.

M/M fans have dealt with the likes of the Johnlock Conspiracy before. We also hate annoying tinhats who create false expectations and over-promise canon m/m.

Just say:

It sucks when people pretend a canon is BL after the creators have said they aren't going to include m/m.

[spotty-bee]

Hazbin Hotel Headcannon

I've been thinking a lot about Adam, Lute, Vaggie and the exorcists. How they all work and everything that we've learned over the course of the show about them. After looking over the pictures of them without their masks and all the back dealings with heaven I was kinda starting to think...

What if their all related?

Adam and Vaggie have the same skin colour. Lute has Adam's nose. They all have golden pupils (Though Vaggie's sclera is red, many have head cannoned that being from living in hell.) Vaggie and Lute both have white hair. Theres a lot of similarities between these characters physically and while that can be due to the art style, I do start to wonder.

However WHY would Lute , Vaggie and possibly all the exorcists be Adam's daughters? Well it starts to make sense when you remember that Sera wanted to keep the Exterminations under wraps. If you have Heaven Born or Saint (Dead humans who got into Heaven) warriors doing the exterminations, word would eventually get out. These people have lives outside of their work and all it would take is talking to a spouse or one of them feeling guilty before news spreads. IF you have warriors who's entire life was Exterminations, then they would A- be less likely to tell anyone and B- Be less likely to feel guilty if they weren't taught anything else.

As for where all these woman came from, my guess would be cloning. We know for a FACT that Heaven has Science.

A good way to get warriors that won't have outside influence/ loose lips is if they don't have any parents that will be wondering whats going on. Cloning would also ensure that warriors will walk off the assembly line fully grown and ready to train. Adam likely used his DNA and then mixed it with donated DNA from other Heavenly Residents . All he then had to do was train his army.

OF course this opens up some rather dark things to consider. There are at least 100 Exterminators. All of them are female. The likelihood of that happening by happenstance is extremely low. Adam had to have chosen to only have woman in his army, and when you factor in Adam's misogynist, narcissistic attitude, that dose not paint a pretty picture. We also need to consider that Adam was left to train/educate these woman with almost no outside interference. Sera made it clear she wanted as little to do with the Extermination business as possible and she maybe one of the few who knew about the army's creation. IN FACT I know she had nothing to do with the army because, apparently, Adam got to name these girls and nobody, and I mean NOBODY, stopped him from naming Vaggie after female anatomy. (I wouldn't be surprised if Vaggie is a nickname and she's actually just named Vagina.)

They seem to have lived a life of constant training and battle. Its also heavily implied that Vaggie (and Lute to a lesser extent) were taught to view themselves as disposable. Worthless if they didn't have someone to serve. We see it when Vaggie tries to lead the trust exercises, when she beats herself up for not making a proper commercial for the hotel, in fact she seems to have little personal life unless its training or Charlie is involved. Lute herself rips off her own arm just to try and help Adam. If Adam did raise/train them, then these are some pretty bad signs.

These are just some things I was thinking about looking over the show. I am also not making this to bash anyone who ships Adam and Lute. This is all speculation and personal interpretation. I've just never felt anything romantic between Lute and Adam, but they were clearly close. I took that last, tearful goodbye in the finally as a distant, estranged Father- Daughter relationship.

Anyway, what do you think? Its highly unlikely this is true, but could make for a fun, dark fan fiction or Au!

[when-gravity-has-fallen]

Background details/me blabbing about my askblog yaaay!! Mostly because it's difficult for me to get motivated as it is! Plus maybe after being inactive for 2 years (rip 💀) this will help pique interest? Idk I just wanna talk about my sillies tbh. And the Axolotl needs a break you know? My guy's watching over an entire multiverse.

First off. The post about my LGBTQIA+ headcanons here: https://www.tumblr.com/craycray-wolf/737090570384703488/while-in-wait-for-the-book-of-bill-already-hard?source=share

It's still accurate to how I feel about the characters...mostly. In the time since I made this post, I have since been converted to "Grunkle Stan is bi" and I'm now preaching the Good Word 🤟

Anyway with that now amended, here's some stuff!

I originally made the majority of the posts about where everyone is now back in 2022, when I intended to have the blog launched as part of the 10th anniversary of Gravity Falls airing.

Well clearly that didn't pan (🩷💛💙🍳) out but maybe it was so it could instead coincide with all the revelations from TBoB! Life is kinda a beautiful thing sometimes.

Anyway point being, I'll have to tweak the timeline a bit. Which is fine because I wanted Dippin Dots and Mabes to hold some jobs before college anyway so really my lack of updating is just an excuse for this. That's the major point I could think of but if I didn't properly consider others please sound off 📣 (yes I'm a cringe emoji user AND I'M PROUD)

Soos and Melody are still attempting to conceive because they want at least one bio child if they can but they're working on adoption.

Many assume Gus Burnside to be missing or worse dead. But maybe... he's still out there somewhere...with his physical body fulfilling a deal. But y'know! No one can say for certain!

To be completely honest I'm still figuring out my interpretation of Bill's backstory. Sorry about that.

Though the reason the Axolotl has contacted our dimension to begin with has to do with his concern...about a certain someone. And who better to give a helping hand than the fandom and the Zodiac?

Since Stan taught Wendy how to hot wire vehicles and whatnot, they one day found a fairly intact Harley motorcycle in the dump. They fix it up together and Stan declares it hers. This is where her Harley previously mentioned in other posts comes from.

When did this happen? I've always assumed the Stans come back to land from time to time, including some summers. So likely during summer but a holiday could work too!

Mabel loves being a passenger. Dipper not so much unless he clings tight. Wendy installs a seat back at some point and this helps ease his anxiety. A little. He likes seeing the scenery though so he'll bare through it if asked to ride. Not to mention he cares for Wendy and thus doesn't want to deny her sharing her joy.

Robbie probably figured out he wanted to be an anime artist while doodling in college classes he wasn't paying attention to. Either he was in generals or some other degree at this point. He only drew in private during high school.

THIS NEXT SECTION WILL BE SHIPS 🚨 YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Pacifica during her high school/diner years thought she like liked Dipper. And well, she was Dipper's rebound crush so at around 15 or so they dated for a while. Pacifica however eventually realizes she's actually a lesbian and was misinterpreting her care for Dippin Dots, as well as thinking she only had so many options initially. Dipper realizes it was to cope with Wendy.

Therefore they cut off romantic ties on good terms and continue to be good friends.

(I have nothing against Dipcifica, it's cute. I'm just personally a Mabcifica person and enjoy my lesbian Pacifica hc)

In their early college years Mabel and Pacifica become girlfriends, LET'S GOOOOOO

Candy and Dipper have began to catch each other's eyes... they've healed from the events of Roadside Attraction in the years since and now they can have a healthier relationship in several ways. I WILL DIE FOR THIS SHIP OKAY

Fiddleford and Ford are sweet old man boyfriends. Though romance baffles Ford it makes enough sense with Fiddleford.

Stan is Stan. Though maybe all of his family coming out awakes something in him... something new to explore about himself...

Past Billford will likely be discussed at some point, though they haven't been a thing for decades and it was toxic to begin with.

Grenda and Marius are of course married ❤️ Candy, Mabel, and Pacifica were her bridesmaids. Mabel and Candy were piling over each other trying to get the bouquet, though Wendy catches it. Uninterested in marriage she throws it back out and reflexively Dipper catches it. After confused for a solid moment he tosses it and finally Pacifica then catches it.

_________

SHIP SECTION FINISHED ⚠️

The Pines Twins revisit Gravity Falls every summer until their high school graduation. Well *maybe* they go one more after graduation but then they have job schedules to contend with.

One of those summers (probably when the Mystery Twins are 15) their parents surprise them with a visit! But then they start to question everything because y'know. Weird town.

Eventually the truth comes out about everything, and they better understand their kids.

It wasn't the easiest summer but an important one.

They let their children return because they know how dearly they love their time there, albeit with ground rules established.

As for their jobs, Mabel was a barista and Dipper restocked shelves at a grocery store.

Dipper now has come to care for his birth name and birthmark. He still likes going by Dipper but he insists that only those close with him use the name. The only reason he still wears bangs is that his hairstyle is just comfortable and familiar. This also keeps his birthmark special as only some get to see it (in full).

Mabel still loves knitting and sweaters, but she's experimented a lot with fashion throughout the years. She now has more variety in her wardrobe than sweaters and skirts.

The twins live in dorms with a couple roommates and return back to their childhood home during holidays and summer. They intend to live in Gravity Falls once they get all their education/credentials.

Waddles is an old man but still kickin'. The parents were initially upset with his presence but were convinced by Stan to begrudgingly keep him. They grew to care for the piggy as well.

The family cat (Sniffles) has since passed :(

They have a dog (Honey) now though! She was a puppy from a dog Dipper once dogsat. The owners didn't realize said dog was preggo. It was a whole thing. Anyway Mabel loves putting her in cute outfits that match Waddles, something she used to do with Sniffles.

Mabel is a k-pop multistan (originating from Candy and Grenda introducing it to her) and absolutely loves drinking boba/jelly milk tea. Dipper likes the sound of k-pop music but isn't a fan the same way his sister is. He likes milk tea but the boba pearls themselves freak him the heck out.

There's a lot more but I'm blanking 🤪

[yuliasolsystem]

Okay, I'm trying to write an analysis of Legato and Knives' relationship in the manga, but apparently the app has a limit on the number of pictures in one post and the online translator I use has a limit on the number of words... So I decided to just make some separate posts about my interpretation of Legato and Knives' behavior toward each other in canon.

In short, I think their relationship is more complex than just "Legato blindly worships Knives but Knives doesn't care about him". I can see a mutual attachment between them that doesn't develop into a normal relationship, romantic or not, because of Knives' refusal to compromise his principles a little bit and Legato's inability to understand his own emotions.

I think I'll just show some examples from the manga and give my opinion of what is going on there, and I want to start with this scene because it is usually brought up as an example of how Knives doesn't care about Legato. But I think it's a little more complicated than that.

In short, I think Knives is lying.

Yes, he does say that he couldn't care less about Legato's loyalty and he also says he doesn't believe in Legato's ability to stand up to Vash, but his actions during the last battle tell exactly the opposite: Knives relies entirely on Legato's loyalty and his ability to deal with Vash.

Before Legato showed up from God knows where with his Guernica, Knives was observing the battlefield both below, on the planet's surface, and above, in space

Note the tense expression on his face: he is clearly having a hard time fighting several opponents at once and trying not to miss a single blow.

But then Legato appears (saving him for the third time in the manga) and from that moment Knives' behavior changes dramatically: he leaves Vash and the inhabitants of No Man's Land to Legato and focuses on the battle with the Earthlings.

Now he's acting very self-confident and even look on his face is changed.

He relies on Legato so much that he doesn't pay attention when humans hook up cables to a fused entity. Even one of the humans comments that it was too easy (I used fan translation for this one example because it was closer to the original)

Earlier we could see that Knives was very observant; he could not have failed to notice the ship with the cable. Especially since he knew that humans were up to something and he even knew what exactly.

Therefore, even while focused on preparing to repel the upcoming attack, he could not simply ignore such a threat. So my only explanation here is complete trust in Legato and faith in his powers. For Knives this level of trust in a human (especially since several of his allies have already betrayed him) would be a sign of a very personal attachment, that's why I think Legato is something more than a mere tool for him.

But why does he treat Legato like that then? I think, the fact of this attachment is too hard for him to accept because if he does he would feel as if he is betraying his own principles.

Knives' problem with humans goes deeper than just hatred and fear. He neither hates nor fears Legato, even though Legato, probably, is the only one who could hurt Knives if he wanted to. I mean he could control Knives' body even as a teen.

So that's not the reason for him to push Legato away. What then? I can imagine, for Knives to accept a human is the same as for Vash to kill one. Just as Vash thinks that if he kills even the evilest person, he will betray Rem and start turning into a monster, Knives probably thinks that if he lets a human get too close to him, he will betray the memory of Tessla and begin to forgive humanity for everything they've done to his kind. And just as Vash hoped he wouldn't have to face the negative consequences of his pacifism, Knives hoped that Legato would follow him to the end even if he keeps pushing him away.

Judging by the look on Knives' face, he was surprised by Legato's appearance

but decided that it meas that Legato's still loyal to him and his goals to the end. But alas, by this point Legato's concept of "loyalty" is a bit... different...

..but I'll talk about that in another post, I guess...

[best-supermassive-character]

Nick Kay x Salim Othman x Jason Kolchek

1. I read a really good fic with the three and it stuck with me. I just think Salim deserves to be sandwiched between and double teamed by the two marines, lol Also I think it's good for multiple tropes and post HoA events story lines. Nick being jealous of Jason for being with Salim or established relationship between the three where Nick has to deal with once suggesting to leave Salim behind

2. It’s like Jalim, but more love to go around. Like, Nick is so in need of some damn love, and I just don’t think Rachel and/or Eric would cut it. Jason is Nick’s best friend, and Salim and Nick really just needed more development. Nick was the first one to trust Salim, Salim held him from behind with his hand over Nick’s mouth. Nick sacrificed his LIFE for the two, and they can BOTH save him. ‘Oorah’ this and ‘semper fi’ that, I think they’re just gay.

Kate Wilder x Jamie Tiergan (Wildgan)

1. "rivals to lovers" dynamic always gets me and when i started playing TDiM i didn't know a shit about the game at all so i started shipping Wildgan from the beggining because THEM, i love these badass girls. also headcanon that they're exes in pre-canon

2. Their rivalry to begin with already made them amazing to think about but the way that dynamic evolves to reluctantly working together to actual full-blown trust is so... my GOD. That hug they can share before Jamie runs out can bring me to tears tbh.

3. IDK I'm mostly just putting this for my sister. BUT. Enemy's to lovers. They have a really interesting relationship in-game and an interesting past with each other so seeing that develop into a romantic relationship is really interesting.

Becky Marney x Felicity Graves (Gravey)

1. Basically from the moment they meet they're ride or die for each other. When a life or death situation comes up, the first person Becky can call isn't her work partner, but Felicity. Felicity risks everything just to try and prove that Becky is innocent in this case. No matter what, Felicity never stops believing that Becky is innocent. Ultimately, it's their trust ans faith in each other that leads to the best ending.

They're basically canon! Always very friendly to each other, with a few suggestive scenes and dialogue that can be easily interpreted as flirty. They deserve more love :)

[kyouka-supremacy]

Hello, I have a question and you're the only person I can think of who can answer it properly. Not sure if you subscribe to the "Akutagawa fell first" belief for sskk, but if you do, what do you think was the moment in canon that made him fall for Atsushi? Or was it more of a gradual process?

I personally can't pinpoint it because he seems hopelessly smitten during the Moby Dick fight but before that there's nothing. What do you think?

Omg thank you for asking me this I have extremely strong opinions on the matter. This got way longer than I predicted but honestly what did I expect?

I DO firmly stand by the “Akutagawa fell first” statement. I mean, as I've said before, it's hard to interpret the canon events in a way that doesn't frame Akutagawa being in love with Atsushi, while when it comes to Atsushi it's arguable he would even fall at all, and definitely didn't within canon¹. SO, in my very unbiased perception of canon (lie), here's the story of Akutagawa falling for Atsushi:

Akutagawa gets assigned Atsushi as his target for a mission. He doesn't have any strong impression on him. He doesn't know anything about him.

Akutagawa talks with Dazai. Now he's got very personal beef with Atsushi.

Akutagawa and Atsushi fight on the trading ship. There's clashing of morals, the personal beef becomes even more personal and it's surely accentuated by Atsushi defeating him. He definitely hates him with all his guts at this point.

Akutagawa and Atsushi meet again on the Moby Dick. Akutagawa still hates Atsushi, but talking their feelings out on the bridge and on the elevator is a first step towards actually understanding and warming up to each other.

Akutagawa and Atsushi fight together against Fitzgerald and share some heartfelt words of support right beforehand. I'm like, 200% sure the exact moment Akutagawa fell in love with Atsushi is when he told him “if you asked me... I'd say Dazai-san has already recognized you long ago”. Because that's everything for him!!!! More exactly, that's everything Akutagawa ever wanted to hear. That's the most valuable words in the world for Akutagawa, and them coming from Atsushi... I think that made them all the more meaningful for him. Atsushi saying those words meant signing a death sentence for Akutagawa.

They fight together against Fitzgerald and I like to think Akutagawa found it a particularly romantic experience. He's fought alone his whole life, it must have evoked a warm feeling in him. He falls harder.

Now, Akutagawa loving Atsushi doesn't mean he will accept he loves Atsushi. I mean, it's Akutagawa, he's bsd's most stubborn character, and on top of that hating Atsushi is his main drive– he's definitely going to spend ages in denial. He'll meet Atsushi again looking all gloomy one day and he'll be like “Oh shit what's up with that sad puppy face. Oh shit. I guess I'm not fighting Jinko today because.................. Defeating an enemy while he's unhappy will earn me no honour. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. It's not that I like him or anything”.

The Cannibalism events happen; Akutagawa and Atsushi beat up some more people, share some more heartfelt moments. Convincing himself that he doesn't like Atsushi is getting harder by day for Akutagawa, and that perhaps makes him the most hostile he's ever been to Atsushi; but he also is in the most harmless way anyone can be hostile. He keeps threatening Atsushi, but he never follows up to his words. Atsushi insults him in the most hurtful way, and he just kinda lets him. He tries to leave Atsushi behind; he turns back to see if Atsushi is tagging along. In the mines, Atsushi is endlessly cruel to Akutagawa, but that's really nothing new; what's new is Atsushi saving his life, Atsushi showing compassion to him, Atsushi wearing Rashomon. What's new is that now he understands Atsushi a little better. And now he's back home with new vivid images of Atsushi in his mind and a freaking self-sabotaging deal he had no reason to accept, and he really can't keep pretending he doesn't love Atsushi anymore.

There's a long narrative break between Akutagawa's Cannibalism appearance and his next appearence. Thirty chapters pass. I like to interpret this long pause as a moment of self-reflection and change for Akutagawa: he finally admitted to himself that he loves Atsushi; he knows that Atsushi doesn't love him back. He stopped killing. He started revalutating his life choices. He knows he doesn't have much left to live. He starts spending more time with his family– maybe even with his coworkers. And he goes to meet Dazai when he calls, and Dazai tells him that he will save Atsushi and he knows the reason why, and Akutagawa knows the reason. And he dies to save Atsushi because he loves him, and it doesn't matter that Atsushi doesn't love him back, what matters is that he does and that his life is worth dying for.

1. I mean. maybe it is arguable. I warmed up to the idea a little more than what I could have said six months ago. But it's still only remotely possible.

[tallsc]

AvA Orange and Red: Character Dynamic Analysis

I would like to preface this analysis with recognizing that all of the Color Gang have a very close bond. Orange, Green, Blue, Yellow, Red, each and every one of them care so much about each other and absolutely would sacrifice themselves to save the others, and this analysis doesn't make that any less true.

However, in that universal deep care and trust for each other, there are still some notable differences in the relationships between specific sticks. In this analysis, I would like to focus specifically on Orange's and Red's interactions throughout the show.

Also, some of these points I have also talked about in my Red Character Analysis, but I'm going to be explaining them through a different lens here.

Another disclaimer is that I'm not going to be addressing the possibility of a romantic relationship in this analysis since I don't think I'm very qualified to talk about that one, everyone can headcanon whatever ships or lack of ships you want XD

But now that that's out of the way, let's start the real analysis!

Red and Orange are, in a lot of ways, opposites. Orange appears to be the oldest, while Red is generally seen as the youngest. Orange is cautious and prefers calm, repetitive safety, while Red rushes into things and enjoys excitement despite the risks. When confronted with a choice between going somewhere new but dangerous and staying safe at home, Red will always choose the former and Orange will always choose the latter.

This has led to a sometimes strained relationship between them - particularly from Orange to Red. And, while this was most visible during the Lush Caves conflict, there are some details in their interactions before then that still indicate something being off in their relationship.

Prior to Lush Caves, especially seen in the non-Minecraft non-AvA episodes, there has been a strong tendency for Red to be the one always going out of their way to help out Orange with whatever they needed. Red's always the one pressing start, fullscreen, helping Orange out with little things, anything Orange asks of them, without question. And while yes, this indicates Red's speed of understanding what's needed from them, it also is definitely worth noting that all these cases is doing what Orange specifically needs. Red wants Orange's approval.

If this was reciprocated, this could easily be a sweet friendship/relationship/however you decide to interpret that dynamic. But, past the type of friendship Orange has with everyone in the CG, the helpfulness and the trust toward Red specifically doesn't seem to be there. Not for a while, at least.

Orange easily gets carried away in the moment, and can sometimes take their friends for granted. They still care about their friends, a lot, but they also often get frustrated with the others and can be lost in the moment - even to the degree of abandoning their friends in favor of going home or accidentally killing one of their friends in a fight. And even in less high-stakes scenarios, they often don't join the others and may do minor things to sabotage them - or at least not be very helpful. Kicking the boat away from Green in Parkour, or turning down the volume when their friends were playing music. It's not terrible by any means, but it's not very kind or healthy either if done too often.

But it's also noticeable that Red often gets the brunt of this apathy or hostility. Because again, they and Orange are opposites. Despite Red wanting to make Orange happy, Red's also impulsive, adventurous, a little chaotic - all traits that Orange rarely wants to deal with. All traits that pull Orange into dangerous and scary situations. And Red, being the stick that they are, never really seemed to catch on how much their behavior was upsetting Orange. Another flaw of their quickly made decisions.

But while it may not have been recognized, the actions that resulted still were clear. In PvP, Orange nearly stabbed Red with an actual sword when Red wasn't using real weapons. Orange would later use Red as a weapon to fight the witch - and I didn't see anyone else jumping on or kicking each other around as blocks. Or in Vs Arcade Games when they all fell out of the maze, Orange ran past Red to go catch Yellow. While yes, Yellow fell from higher, Orange could have at least gone and helped Red up afterward. And in building contests, which Orange is usually the judge of, the only prize Red ever got was from Yellow.

In all these cases, yes, a problem or imbalance existed already for the whole group. But it's always seemed to be consistently a little worse for Orange and Red. And that's why I'm not as surprised at what happened in Lush Caves. But also, why I am so happy with what happened afterward.

The episode itself was just a culmination of all the anger and resentment of everything going on finally coming to a head. Orange was sick of being dragged into danger by Red. Red was sick of being overlooked and their feelings ignored by Orange. That battle itself may not be all that surprising anymore given the prior animosity between the two.

This fight could have broken their friendship permanently. If either one refused to stop, if either one took the others' actions personally and refused to forgive, this could have marked the point where every little action got to be too much, and they could have broken that bond for good.

But this is the Color Gang. None of them can hold a permanent grudge against each other to save their lives. Especially not Orange, who would kill to save them even after only having known them a few minutes. And especially not Red, who doesn't have a hostile pixel in their body.

So they did stop. They did forgive. And more than that, they realized something was wrong. They realized that how they were acting, especially toward each other, was wrong. While this was more clearly shown for Orange, I think it was true for Red too.

Because when you look at their actions afterward, they change. For the rest of the series, Orange has put more focus into consistently helping, trusting, and supporting their friends - including Red. They stopped ignoring or arguing with their friends and stopped trying to solve everything themselves. Hey, Orange's primary role after their solo episode even became a support to the Warden. This doesn't seem like a role they would usually be as comfortable with beforehand.

And on Red's part, Red started being more careful to get others' agreement on their course of action. They let others take the lead when needed, and when they had a plan themselves they tried to make sure the others understood. They, too, recognized that they need support, they need to do things alongside their friends, not in spite of them.

Neither of them were perfect in this. Orange still has a tendency to want to do all the most important things themselves, and Red still struggles with acting too quickly before understanding others' feelings. But there's progress. They both recognize their mistakes, and they're both trying.

And most importantly...

They're finally doing it side by side.

Well, thank you for reading! I hope you enjoyed, you thought of this topic in a new light, or at least found it interesting! This one's a subject I've been thinking about for a while but it took a while to put it into clearer words ^-^

I've done a few analyses like this before, and will likely do more, so keep an eye out for that! I linked the Red analysis up at the top, but here it is again and here is the Yellow Leadership analysis.

[tsururoach]

The thing about Ryomina (mlm or mlf) is that I hesitate to say I "ship" it because I don't really consider them solely in the 'romantic' side of things.

Like, to me their whole deal is more on the conceptual scale of things. They exist on many planes, they can be romantic, they can be platonic, they can be the same person, but there is still emotions there regardless of what you do.

Death delivers all, death is all encompassing, death lived inside of them until one day, it leaves. Something that was in them for 10 years leaves him. It should've felt empty, like something wrong. And yet that thing, that concept, that person was no longer stagnant. It saw the world from you, and it grows. It becomes a person, it becomes human. (You also, learn to become human)

It starts off someone who knew only that single point of view, to someone who was able to change. Change themself- and change you- no longer restricted by that tie to you. And yet, the bond you have was strong enough that he was still led back to you.

I think the 'love' that would hypothetically exist between the two of them would be the 'love' someone could have for a concept. An Abstraction and mixed with simple human affection. The love of the life that lived next to the protag. The protag to me would love Ryoji, the way one would love life.

Funny how that is: Loving death like life.

V ADDING A DISCUSSION ON HAMUGIS AND RYOMINA SECTION HERE V

I consider Hamugis more generally romantic than Ryomina but thats also because they also have less fuckassery. But i still also do consider them in that nebulous relationship status area.

Don't get me wrong. I love love love hamugis. Actually let me add a sidetwt doodle here while I can.

Okay heres the thing about my preferences in Persona 3 ships. I'm actually okay with most of them tbh. Like generally I usually don't get other people's interpretations of certain ships, but i still on some level kind of like. Get it.

The only one is like. Junpei and anyone who isn't Chidori; or at the very least with anyone who redacts chidori entirely. I like jundori okay. I like Junpei. Junpei's #1 defender.

But I do on a level instinctively prefer the mlm ver of ryomina over mlf, and the flf ver of hamugis over mlm. (I do actually overall prefer aigis x protag over ryomina in general in the normal terms of 'ship' but we already talked about that)

Now I'm well aware technically I could make the protaganist's character whatever but we've come far enough that a lot of "insert" protagonists already have a general kind of personality okay. I do sometimes err away from canon portrayals, yeah but hey.

Anyways I feel like... Hamuko and Aigis form a stronger bond together. It's not just the difficulty of the love itself that changes things. It's the approach. Hamuko is generally portrayed as more headstrong and more outwardly optimistic, which, yeah.

I feel like... While Aigis benefits from someone reaching out to her, inversely, Ryoji benefits from reaching out to someone?

And then when Aigis is forced to reach out...

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is I feel like the bond overall has more meaning. Like I did say Aigis' relationship with the protagonist is also still in that conceptual air, I'm kind of rehashing what I said before. Aigis is coming to terms with her own humanity .

I lost the plot of this psot.