#p5 theories

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

P5X (II and X and other numbers) Analysis

After seeing the whole “Persona II”......I have questions.

Is “Persona II” only for the Greco-Roman trio? Is it also for the OG Trio (Wonder/Closer/Cattle) too?

Is it “Persona 2″? (oh P5 with your P1/2/4 vibes kfjdsakfj) As in the roman numeral 2? (which is why it might only be the Greco-Roman trio)? Is it actually “Persona 11″ with the I’s representing 1, but we aren’t suppose to read it like Roman numeral 2 but instead two 1s together? (ro the Ii clan from the Sengoku era)? 

BUT NOW it’s got me thinking about P5X. Is this going to be another Danganronpa V3 bs thing??? (spoilers for DRV3)

Where V3 actually means 53′rd??? 

I swear to god I don’t think I can do this again. TT0TT Is P5X suppose to be like P510? (like P5 and followed by the roman numeral 10?) P50 (10*5)? P60 (omg P6? kljdsf 50+10)? P15 (10+5)? Or P29 (5 plus 24, “x” being the 24th letter in the alphabet). Or is it PEX (E is the 5th letter, x is the 24th). (wait PEX is also known as  Cross-linked polyethylene, Cross is in that!). 

X could be cross (someone pointed out how the last concert had a “cross road’s theme).......but I doubt it’s related to a pipe. lksdjflkjf

Of course X could mean an unknown value...... Or it could mean kiss (like Xs and Os jklsjlfa haha that’d be silly).

Or it could stand for the  Suzhou numerals  which is  〤.... Which is 4.... (wait P4????? My P4 senses just keep tingling with this game!). Which means it’s P54??? Or P9???? 030 Haha what if it is 2019? And the Whale...and it’s actually Persona Trinity Soul....haha.... TT0TT

Is it suppose to be “chi/𝜒” and not x? Persona 5 Key? Persona 5 Chi? XD We’re getting Kingdom hearts up in here, not just Danganronpa jdsakflj;f

It could be a multiplication symbol, but there’s nothing after it..... It’s like 5 times..... what? 0? Then it’s P0? Hahaha *sobs* Or maybe we haven’t seen the other “number” yet? Maybe it’s 5x5 (cause they are both P5 related) so it’s P25-

........................... P5 25th anni................................. is that.....is that it? TT0TT

Ok I ran through all my inane and insane possibilities. 

[personishfive]

in which his life is like a video game

[not-the-culprit]

idk they have similar vibes okay

[complete-idiot-inc]

Toshiro’s Revolution.

New trailer dropped, new speculation. (Edit: more information than my guesswork exists, changing now. New Information comes from here)

Let’s jump to the most notable thing here, Toshiro’s persona.

What I initially believed was Toshiro’s transformation into a Ruler, was according to the site above the awakening of his persona. but its strange that if they would show that in the third trailer, that his eyes don't become golden like everyone else's, even the site didn't seem confidant with the Persona, treating it more like an assumption than anything else, odd.

Speaking of kingdoms, the third kingdom has been revealed, based on schools and acedemia, perhaps Shujin itself.

This is its ruler, perhaps the principal or superintendent.

There’s also this shot of a kingdom transforming while the thieves are in it.

I couldn’t discern who’s kingdom this is, but it’s interesting that it’s changing before all the thieves eyes and they are terrified by it.

Erina and Toshiro are related, somehow.

Throughout the trailer, we see shots of Erina being downed and Toshiro doing something about it, but what was most interesting to me was this.

This unidentified person, speaking in a feminine voice, is related to Toshiro, because the trailer immediately cuts to him after she’s done speaking, and with the connection the two have, I’m willing to bet this is Erina’s human self, and Toshiro’s daughter.

This is the final kingdom, the source of the new metaverse, and the home of the guy corrupting the Velvet Room.

In one of the Nyaahoo news episodes, Lavenza directly states that the Velvet Room was affected by an outside influence, hence why it’s a forge.

Both Tactica’s VR and this Kingdom are heavily based on machinery, gears and cogs in particular.

There’s also a shot of Ann and Ryuji attacking the machinery, and later one with Joker leading a group charge against a barrier of some sort, just like the fight against EMMA from Strikers.

[clowningclownn]

fem akechi in her detective prince(princess?) outfit

[smolstarthief]

Was inspired by this fanart by @feldsparite to do a quick edit of her. Enjoy!

[somethingpersonarelated]

On how Futaba views Akechi

A piece of fanon I've noticed that comes up a lot is how supportive Futaba is of anything that involves Akechi. I don't want to go "Oh she just hates him and any interpretation otherwise is WRONG!!>!" or like she'd totally be cool if he randomly waltzed back into their lives.

It's not something that particularly annoys me or anything. It's just something I've noticed and wanted to comment on because I feel like Futaba's character gets overly simplified. I think it's an interesting dynamic that should be explored more! NOTE THIS IS LONG SORRY LMFAO. Also, I should clarify this isn't a ship post. (don't make this weird)

At the beginning:

We all know the infamous "wait why are you telling me about your trauma, this is a wendy's" scene but it gives us our first insight into her perspective.

When he talks about his mother, it's a fairly similar scenario to Futaba's own. So much so that she has her own cut-in looking sad/sympathetic towards him.

But she's still defensive when he asks about the Phantom Thieves' and their popularity by deflecting sarcastically with,

"...You're popular too, Ace Detective Akechi."

They definitely don't start off on the right foot, much like his relationship with pretty much all the Phantom Thieves, for obvious reasons. Although at this point they don't fully know the extent of his suspicious behavior, just that he is generally sus.

During the Casino + Shido Arcs:

Futaba cannot stand Akechi at this point, but as a part of the plan, she has to act naive even though arguably she probably knows the most about all the mechanics of the plan. She does get to mess with him though (making the newbie do stuff, the whole cognitive akechi part of the plan, bugging his phone). Her perspective is probably still similar to the others and it shows how much she was able to improve by being able to face him without cracking at all.

Shido's Arc and Third Semester is when it actually gets interesting though:

Futaba: You know... sometimes I think about that fake Medjed that you guys made up... Futaba: That was the worst trap... but if not for that, I don't think I'd be here right now. Futaba: Uhhh, basically... it doesn't matter where you start over!

This one gets me, I think this line is where her perspective begins to shuffle a bit (and it will be important later). She's trying her best to sympathize with him, as this is before the black mask part of the breakdown, and get him to see that there was some amount of good that came from his actions. It doesn't work, and I kind of think she doesn't really believe it, but they are all trying anything to get him to come to his senses. But I do think she means the part about him starting over, in a "I did it, so could you" kind of way.

And of course this engine room dialogue which is peak (even if it may be an incorrect description of his abilities):

Futaba: But you trusted no one, so you only got two Personas: one for your lies, and one for your hate. Futaba: Still, you thought that was enough, right? That part I totally get.

Okay the first part of the dialogue may not be accurate to how his Personas work but I don't want to talk about that (there's some good posts on that though). But the point isn't being accurate, she's throwing back what he's done in attempt to get through to him. Like this is where you went wrong and here's why I can relate to that. The second line confuses me and I had to sit on it.

One point she makes is that he's operating on his own without teammates (the translation is a bit different), "playing in single player mode." I think this refers to how she thought she could manage her situation on her own, but wasn't able to. Additional note, it could also be referring to the way she attempted to push people out of her life (like how she tries to stop the PTs when they say they need to meet her to change her heart). That she needed the help of the Phantom Thieves (I think, even beyond the change of heart) and those bonds proved her wrong. So even though she initially thought no one needed her and that her life was meaningless, she did something Akechi couldn't conceive of doing, reaching out for help. This is her way of extending a branch even though there's no reason for her to.

Third Semester

Source:

An additional line I can't screenshot:

"So please let me get back to navigating! I wanna navigate so hard that I won't be able to think about anything else."

When this happens, I think it's pretty clear that there's a strong inner conflict for her when it comes to forgiving Akechi. Even though they reasoned it out by saying they needed him on the team due to Maruki's abilities, she's still trying to look for a better reason to work with him. And she just can't find one. I wouldn't say it's necessarily out of pity, but it shows that she does on some level still feel bad for him. I guess the word I'm looking for is compassion? A thought that comes into my head is that she does want him to start over, just not with the team. If it was only Shido, then it would have been justified, but the circumstances are different here. Knowing that he might be alive changes the way all the thieves interact with him (they aren't trying to get through to him anymore, and some dialogues are just awkward- you can tell no one knows what to say to him now that he's acting 'normal').

A counterpoint to this dialogue would be her dialogue in the engine room and Mementos. She's pretty open to talking to him in these dialogues. In Akechi's section there are some really interesting interactions imo:

Akechi: You may not like working with me, but I'm counting on your assistance until our goal is achieved. Futaba: You better appreciate just how open-minded I am.

The fact they don't play together in Tycoon but they still get Mementos dialogues confuses me a bit but eh. Without Haru and Futaba's approval it's pretty clear the others wouldn't be on board with Akechi on the team. The delivery kind of makes it sound like she's forcing herself to be open minded about it, and that's what the safe room dialogue implies too. She doesn't want to be around him.

Akechi: Do you prefer my previous outfit or this one? Moving around's become much easier for me. Futaba: They both work fine. Just wear whatever you want.

Akechi: You think I'm frightening when I fight? Well, I'm afraid you're just going to have to accept it. Futaba: I was pretty shocked at first, but now I'm used to it.

I think these are pretty clear. She hasn't forgiven him, hell she probably doesn't like him, but she's come to accept him for who he is. But she isn't scared anymore, nor is she trying to reason with him, he just exists.

Conclusion/TLDR: She goes from actively disliking him at the beginning of the story to still disliking him but it's complicated™. She understands what he went through to get to that point, and wanted him (like the others) to face Shido with them. But when it comes to third semester, the circumstances are far different, complicating it further. She doesn't need to forgive him at all, she knows that, but after everything that happened wants to find a reason to forgive him. But she can't. At the very least, she's begrudgingly accepting of his existence, and can deal with it only for the sake of the team. She doesn't hate him, at all, actually, but to say she's okay with him is also a stretch.

edit: some edits for clarity/demonstration.

[dreamsy990]

thinking about how cognitive akechi is the only one in shidos palace w/out a mask

according to the explanation they give the cognitions in shidos palace have masks because he believes everyones hiding something

so maybe its like shido thinks he knows everything about akechi and predicts his betrayal or something

so akechis not hiding anything from him that he doesnt already know in his eyes

its like. every other person shido logically knows theres stuff theyre hiding and he doesnt really care to know either way. but shidos pretty damn sure he knows absolutely everything about akechi. he even already knew that akechi was his son, so nothing akechi was hiding was something he didnt know already

idk just thoughts

[aasperitas]

So if they could pull in Ann to the metaverse by proximity before she got the app, how were they able to have a hideout at the access way? Wouldn't the risk of drawing people in accidentally be way too high? If you compare the distance of Ann and the pt at the alleyway vs the public and the pt in the access way, she was further ?

Does this mean that there has to be a specific criteria for who can go? That makes sense, say Yaldabaoth decides in advance who should join Akira, since random strangers would only complicate his plans.

AND YET Akechi can pull in an entire swat team????? What is the deciding factor?

Also, is it only determined by horizontal distance? The ceiling of Leblanc doesn't seem that high up. Presumably it's more spherical if a whole person will travel, rather than individual parts. So how big is its radius? Again, gauging the distance ann had in the alleyway, since I believe that to be the furthest we've seen anyone get pulled in from, could we say that, if the area of effect is a sphere, then someone directly under on a different floor could get pulled in? Like Sojiro? Or random clients lmao—

So many questions yet so little answers

[a-being-of-chaossss]

Theory Time

K spoilers for Persona 5 Royal (Third Semester) and Royal additions in general

Theory: The Phantoms Thieves never actually escape Maruki's reality

Hear me out. I think in the true ending to the third semester (the ending where you "defeat" Maruki and everything goes back to normal) is entirely fake and no matter what Maruki always wins.

Ok so after phase 2 of Maruki's boss fight, there is a scene where Maruki's Persona grows to a colossal size and "attempts" to smash the Phantom Thieves. According to the story, the Phantom Thieves are able to hold back the attack and end Maruki's "ideal" reality, but what if they didn't? Maruki says he wants a world where everyone is happy, INCLUDING the phantom thieves. So what if Maruki humoured them with a battle so he could get them to accept his reality?

After the fist, multiple events happen that explictly go against the pre-established rules of the game, the most obvious being Mona turning into a helicopter. Some others are Maruki not disappearing after his persona is killed, Maruki not dying in the place despite clearly not leaving and Akechi supposedly being alive in the post-credit scene. Maruki also has the ability to alter memories so what if everything after the punch is a hallucation? Maruki is also shown to have some ability similar to mind reading as he would have no other way of knowing everyone's wishes so recreating the velvet room / its attendants wouldn't be impossible. Basically, i would be super easy for Maruki to falsify these memories.

Additionally, the entire reason Maruki became a god is because society wished to be ruled by someone and the phantom thieves moved that responibility onto him. So if they truely defeated Maruki, would society not pass the burden onto them?

Anyways thats my rant and remember, this is just a theory. A PERSONA THEORY!

[p5x-theories]

Everyone keeps suggesting that Sojiro not owning LeBlanc means something bad happened to him but it could always mean that Wakaba never died in this universe

Haha, yeah! If we assume there really are counterparts to every P5 character in P5X's universe that have just lived different lives, the butterfly effect becomes super apparently really quickly: Goro Akechi lived a different life, which inherently means Shido, Joker, Okumura, Haru, Maruki, Wakaba, Sojiro, and Futaba's lives would all look pretty different right now, too.

[cobwebinthecorner]

Okay so I'm only like five minutes into Tactica and I don't want to get too crazy but I've got an idea about this

just from what little dialog I've seen so far, I wonder if this game will finally end up bridging the gap/solidifying a connection between Royal and Strikers, making a "definitive" P5 timeline and shutting down "Strikers isn't Royal canon" claims

granted, I haven't started the Repaint Your Heart DLC yet, so I don't know the implications of that, and I'm still troubled by how "Kasumi" and "Prince" Akechi can exist at the same time. that part's messing me up

basically what I'm thinking is a timeline like:

Royal (up until Sae's calling card) -> PQ2 -> Royal (Sae's calling card to after Maruki stuff) -> Tactica(?) -> Royal (Ending) -> Strikers

again, the issue with this is Repaint Your Heart, because if this game takes place AFTER the Maruki stuff, Akechi should be dead(I'm not considering that cut cutscene to be canon) and "Kasumi" should be Sumire

So as far as theories go, I'm thinking Repaint Your Heart is a sort of PQ/2 situation where Akechi and Kasumi are both getting yoinked away at different times, Kasumi sometime before going back to being Sumire and Akechi sometime during Sae's Palace (unless this is some Metaverse fuckery and he's just stuck in his Prince outfit)

and I'm sure like PQ/2 and Dancing in Starlight, the events of both the main story and the DLC will end up having taken place outside of time and the game will end with none of them having any memories of it afterwards.

also tagging this with as many spoiler tags as I can think of just in case

[the-weird-otaku]

"It's Sho' time!"

Credits:

Model - me, ATLUS

Effects: B-ToonShader, ExcellentShadow, AutoLuminous, ikClut_空気清浄機改, ikClut_漂白剤, ikClut_デフォルメ, ikClut_エレガンス, ikClut_ET5, WorkingFloor_X, NEXT_solid, FXAA

[complete-idiot-inc]

A Theory on Persona 5: Tactica.

Two images on Nyahoo News 3 struck my fancy, namely the ones of the second tyrant we see (Yoshiki) who obviously had a bone to pick with Toshiro.

My theory is thus, the new metaverse the thieves are in is Toshiro’s “Palace/Jail/Labyrinth”

The first Kingdom (Marie’s) is clearly based on weddings and romantic love in general, and Toshiro is trapped in Marie’s castle. Perhaps he’s trapped in a loveless marriage? Or perhaps was trapped in situation similar to Haru’s and was forced into one with a clearly bad person.

The second Kingdom could possibly be Toshiro’s political career and perhaps his opinions on Japan’s National Diet. Yoshiki’s place is based on forced happiness so maybe he sees Japan right now as in a state of uneasy rest, being held down by the government (which if this takes place during P5/P5R might mean he sees through Shido’s bullshit)

If y’all can’t tell P5 Tactica has greatly struck my curiosity, I look forward to this game and it’s various secrets yet disclosed.