#parallel with lucifer in the cage

[pellygifs]

Mitchell Trent ; 9-1-1 (S05E06)

[miiilowo]

mom said it's my turn on the ponynatural (+rambling about their cutiemarks in the tags)

[lambmotifz]

hey there...so my friend @messyourprettyhair-archiveblog and I used to imagine an au for Persephone Sam, stolen and dragged to hell by Hades Luci, who is so sure he can convince Sam (by any means necessary) to stay and be Queen, while on Earth, Demeter!Dean spreads death and desolation for every second until he gets Sam back. It was mostly in dms between ourselves, but I'll rb some inspo posts that I still have.

so so obsessed with this concept. i love how it’s basically canon s5/post swan song except dean didn’t spread death and desolation but canonically “every part of him wanted to die or find a way to bring sam back”

[quietwingsinthesky]

prompt: lucifer and jack, flying

Lucifer-Jack times 🥺

The fact that Jack doesn't know how to fly makes Lucifer angry. (He gets angry about a lot of things that have happened to Jack. That's… new.)

"Not at you," Lucifer tells him, and Jack can feel the guilt radiating off of him. "It isn't your fault. Do you want to learn how to fly?"

That's how they end up thousands of feet in the air, Jack's heart beating faster than ever. He can't be hurt, but he can barely see the ground and-

"Woah, champ"—Lucifer's wings are big enough to engulf Jack with every flap—“I won't let you fall."

[ananke-xiii]

Talking about mommy issues... I'm not a 100% fan of Jack as the destiel son BUT it's important to me that going there means acknowleding that "archetypically" speaking Dean is The Mother while Cas is The Father*. And this isn't just because, when Sam accuses Dean of acting like their father, he replies with a Freudian slip if I've ever heard one ("I'm not his mother"), it's also why Chuck's myth-retelling doesn't work (Abraham is totally Cas and he and Jack subverted that myth) 'cause first he doesn't understand Dean and second he's not an astute storyteller and doesn't realize his story was already subverting the myth he wanted to re-enact. Therefore he should've created a situation where Jack (The Son) was forced to kill Cas (The Father) if he wanted to provoke Dean, this was Jack's original sin according to Dean, come on Chuck, it's been 14 seasons, everybody already knew Dean was not gonna kill Jack. He's totally fine with caging and entrapping his putative sons but he draws a line at killing them (insert that meme from Community). (I mean, I know Chuck wants Dean to do his bidding but after 14 years he had to get a little more creative than that. Maybe he should've listened to his editor Metatron, just saying. "maybe less about detail and more about balance") ((hello Becky and Metatron parallel)).

It would have also meant that Jack's story would've gone back to its genesis + the long tail of dead parental figures (not only Kelly and Cas but Nick/Lucifer and Mary and whoever else I'm forgetting lol).

By the end of s14 there is a short-circuits of symbols so it all had to go tits up, hence the rising of the dead etc. etc.

*This doesn't mean they are the Good Mother and the Good Father as they're clearly not but these are the primordial energies that they both channel to Jack. Also, obvs patriarchy in SPN is very much alive and well as demonstrated by the fact that the Good Mother and the Good Father are only the Dead Mother and the Dead Father and unfortunately for Jack this is what he got when he was born. He's not even born and he already lives in an ideal world with ideal figures compared to whom he'll always fall short.

Also, Jack's got the power to wake up from the Empty his putative father because his Mother (Dean) is grieving his death and he wants to please him: Jack is a total mama's boy.

[lol-jackles]

I know its beens awhile but what did you think of S15 as a whole?

As a whole I think season 15 was an above-average season due to below-average execution and ended with a stellar series finale that added rewatch value not just for season 15 but also all of 15 seasons.

Season 15 started and ended with callbacks to previous seasons; from season 1's woman in white and Sam's goal of returning to a normal life, to season 5's Dean's time in hell as Alastair's apprentice and bringing closure to Adam Milligan, to season 8's endgames for Sam and Dean.

The first half of the season 15 was about free will vs determinism, with Sam representing the former and Dean representing the latter.  Sam and Dean’s confrontation with God parallels how they've reacted to family and authority their entire lives: Sam challenged God’s Divine decree over His Creation while Dean accused God of abandoning His Creation.  When Abraham spoke with his heart and mind to God over His plan to destroy Sodom & Gomorrah, it led to Abraham transcending himself, leading the way for God, and becoming the father of faith. Metaphorically it's all about lessons in honest, meaningful relationships with our fellow human beings.   People often suppress their true selves and principles for the sake of avoiding conflict instead of taking the relationship a step further into a place of sincerity.   From season 11 to 14, Sam and Dean spoke their hearts and minds to God and the brothers' relationship became at its strongest, never wavering even when occasional arguments sprouts up because they were honest with each other.

Sam and God became connected through Sam's hope which manifested in their identical wounds. Secular-based hope is about anticipating something good to come in the future.  Sam has hope in a better future, so Chuck showed him a bleak future to make his lose that hope.  Once Sam lost his hope, God leaves.  That’s pretty much what happens to people in real life, when they lose hope, they feel there is no God or God abandoned them. Another physical manifestation of a bleak future is Dean's old friend who retired from hunting, Lee, who became so corrupted that Dean is forced to kill him.

The return of Sam and Dean's half-brother, Adam, brings welcome closure.  Adam is not out for revenge as he acknowledged his own culpability for agreeing to vessel-ship in the first place.  Him and Michael only having each other for 10 years in the Cage led to their codependent-symbiotic-ish relationship that parallels Sam and Dean to some extent.  

I like to call the second half of season 15 the "Dean redemption tour" where side characters were used to address Dean's unresolved issues in order for him to be good enough for Sam in their eternal afterlife. Normally whenever Dean interacted with side characters it is about the side characters, not Dean (see example here and here). But when the formula is reversed, it becomes a bit disjointed, and the audience picked up on it. The final redemption act target Dean's anger issues that both Amara and Chuck discussed.

Chuck: This is my ending.  My real ending. 

Very next scene: *Dean pulls a gun on Sam*

Dean’s been so obsessed with having free will that he’s actually following Chuck’s writing.  As usual Sam broke through to Dean, in effect breaking Chuck’s influence. Then a very mad mad Chuck shows up.

Chuck:  “Are you kidding me? After all that, you did it again!”

Then 15x18 happened. Ignoring the hilarity of that scene, the speech was supposed to remind the general audience that Dean is A HERO before he dies two episodes later. By 15x19, free will vs determinism comes to a conclusion.   Michael and Lucifer betrayed the Winchesters and succumb to determinism, fulfilling their destiny to destroy each other.  Sam and Dean manipulated Michael to lure Chuck into a trap to replace him with a new God, Jack. Chuck is left only with human frailties and for the first time Chuck has no idea what happens next, bringing the free will theme to a full circle.  

Due to interactions with Sam, Rowena became the new queen of Hell while Jack becomes the new God of Heaven. Jack promises Sam that He will have a hands-off approach and people don’t need to pray or sacrifice to Him. Jack’s perception of humanity is distilled down to, “When people have to be their best, they can be.” 

Before the story ends, the protagonist is supposed to accomplish their primary goal that had kept them driven and move the story forward.  Sam’s goal was attaining normal life, it was never about eradicating monsters to extinction or avenging his mother’s death.  In fiction it always seems like the main character want many things, but there is always a primary goal.  Harry Potter gets dragged into many subplots such as conflicts with his best friends, romantic misfires, and incidents with secondary characters, however his main goal was always to defeat Voldemort and that's what the audience is holding out to see.  Sam Winchester’s journey is flipped from Harry Potter’s; Sam gets dragged into many subplots of saving the world, defeating the Big Baddies, and conflicts with his brother, however his main goal was always to have a chance at a normal life. But this can't happen while Dean is still alive.

Dean has everything he wanted: Sam and hunting.  Dean is a complete person; he doesn’t need anything else. But Sam had given up just about everything so that Dean wouldn’t be alone. 15x16 reminded the audience that Sam wanted out of the hunting life since he was a child. Sure, Sam is very good at his job and even became a leader, but they always made sure to show that Sam doesn’t have passion for the family business other than saving people’s lives.  Claire Novak shows way more enthusiasm for the job. But Dean would never retire from the hunting life.  Even when Michael gave Dean a fantasy life, Dean still conjured up monsters so he can fight and kill them.  As long as Dean is alive, Sam will never be free to pursue a normal life.  Think back to Dean's speech in season 8 telling Sam to pursue his normal life only after Dean dies with a gun in his hand and a smile on his face.

The pivotal barn scene in the 15x20 finale was genius, bringing the series to full circle with callback to the pilot, fleshing it out, adding backstory to Dean’s pov that brings his fear, need, relief, and love to stark relief.  It hurt like hell, and at the same time, cathartic because Dean was honest.   The way Dean said, “Come here. Let me look at you. There he is!”  That’s Dean in dad mode, the parental figure to Sam.  The show reminded the audience in 15x18 that Dean raised his little brother.  Still in dad mode, Dean then tells Sam that he is proud of him.  It’s what every son wants to hear from their dad.

Dean then goes into brother mode and tells Sam he admires his strength even when they were children.  Sam’s strength is such that Dean was afraid that Sam doesn’t need him. Fearing rejection, he stood outside of Sam’s dorm for hours before finally going to Sam because it’s always been Sam and Dean, and Dean can’t comprehend if he didn’t have Sam. 

From there Dean gives Sam his blessing to keep living his life.  “I love you so much, my baby brother”. Sam’s reaction was pure and raw, he has always been honest about his wants and needs but craves Dean’s approval to pursue them, and now he has it.  Sam’s faith in Dean went answered with Dean saying how proud he is of Sam, how much he admired Sam’s strength so that Sam knows he is strong enough to go on living without Dean.  

Another reason why the barn scene is genius is the pilot callback sets up Sam and Dean’s reunion in New Heaven as pilot 2.0.  From there they will build their relationship just as Sam and Dean.  They are at peace without monsters disrupting their lives, without vindictive angels disrupting their afterlives, and without childhood angsts weighing them down.  They have both freedom and peace.

This applies to all of the hunters.  Jack’s New Heaven is like a retirement home for hunters where they can enjoy their peace and socialize with their friends and loved ones and even upgrade themselves to the people they were meant to be on earth.

[blood-orange-juice]

Reemerging theme of fate as something to avoid in Genshin made me think.

This could actually be what shattered Childe's dreams. Imagine dreaming of having a grand and glorious fate and finding out fate is a cage and a rather disgusting one. And all the heroes of eld were stuck in a miserable circle.

(would explain why he wears Parsifal's ring too. "I'll do it for myself and for that fellow.")

As Saoki said, I too would react to finding that out with "wtf, I'll punch god personally for this!"

It also made me think of how he compared the Traveler with the morning star. There's the obvious Luciferian parallel, of course, but something something watsonian doylist.

The Boy doesn't know the Lucifer legend (even if authors intended this specific reference) but he knows some other context (so he meant something else). So what did he reference? Why the morning star is surpising?

The thing about our world Venus is that its phases and changes of visible size couldn't be predicted by geocentric model. It was something that didn't fit into the concepts of the world.

(something true that doesn't fit the fake laws of Teyvat... hmmm)

If I understand that right, in especially early astronomy (think Babylonian times) calculating even its trajectory was a pain and we have fewer records on Venus than on everything else.

So maybe it's that. The unpredictability. Childe doesn't seem like the type interested in astronomy but maybe he came into contact with the metaphor through poetry or seafaring. These two seem up his alley.

I assume he values defying fate very highly (conflicts, change, him being called unpredictable, the Narcissenkreuz theme of imposing one's will over the world, etc).

Also there's that legend about moon sisters being in love with morning stars.

And Tsurumi island murals that produce absolutely insane theories.

So the concept means something in Teyvat, we just don't know what (a bit like rose in Teyvat is a symbol for secrets but not all the other things it means in our world).

[michaeliad]

You can find so many Adam parallels in SPN. His last name is not Winchester, although technically he is one; while Winchester brothers’ motto is “family doesn’t end in blood”, Adam is the embodiment of “family doesn’t start in blood”. Michael’s pure unconditional romantic and platonic love for him is opposite to Nick’s sick murderous obsession with Lucifer (both being the two sides of the same coin). Adam has a forgiving and kind personality, he believes in being able to save the world even after he and his mother were brutally killed; his father sought revenge for Mary’s murder, destroying the only family he got left in the process. There are so many things that can be compared to Adam’s story arc. Michael’s grief after losing Adam / Dean practically forgetting about Castiel after 15x18? Adam (the son who hates the father) replacing Dean (the son who loves the father) in the Cage? Sam saying him and Eileen came to an agreement / Adam saying the same thing about him and Michael literal minutes after that? Adam had so much importance in the series, and all that being basically unnoticed by the fandom is just unfair.

[seanwinchester]

truly thinking about the implications of the parallel they tried to create. because yes sam letting himself be possessed by lucifer to save the world in s5 and cas doing the same thing in s11 is framed the same way. as in one is equally as noble as the other, they're both signing their death sentence in doing this, but volontarily and for the greater good. except they forgot that 6 seasons went by and the show changed and the characters and the stakes along with it.

sam didn't say yes as a spur of the moment thing. he said it after careful consideration, because they exhausted all other options. he said yes because lucifer was free from the cage because of him, and guilt was eating him inside, and in sacrificing himself he could save the world and be redeemed at the same time. so finally, FINALLY, lucifer would never be out again. and he did it while consulting dean, and bobby, and cas. and they had a plan.

cas didn't consult anybody. cas didn't have a plan. he took lucifer's bait and decided against all odds that he could be trusted. he LET OUT the very creature that sam spend 2 millenia in hell suffering to so he could make sure it would stay locked IN.

sam was a wreck getting out of the cage, the amount of trauma he went through is not even conceivable. and cas should know, he was the one who pulled him out. he was the one who touched his soul and saw how raw it was. he was the one who took on sam's trauma in that hospital. BUT lucifer was still in the cage so it wasn't all in vain. sam could wake up and SEE the world he saved with his own two eyes, and lucifer was out of reach, safely imprisoned. THAT made it worth it.

but then cas said yes and suddenly lucifer is out again. not only sam's greatest nightmare but the whole reason he did any of this in the first place. and cas just said it was all for nothing. YOUR sacrifice means nothing because it was long ago, and i have faith in my mission now. no matter that this mindset has failed him dozen times before.

and the kicker is? they didn't even need lucifer to beat the darkness bc she just wanted a sibling pep talk. and now sam has to deal with lucifer for two more seasons. yay

[ruinedsam]

No but Sam and Gadreel is so freaking fascinating, especially with Gadreel pretending to be Sam and telling Dean “maybe I would’ve liked the choice, at least [of letting in an angel or dying]” and then, after killing Kevin and Dean saying Sam’s name, telling Dean “there is no more Sam” but Gadreel thought he “played him convincingly.” Gadreel knew Sam would’ve wanted an actual choice and played it so well that Dean did to realize this wasn’t his brother. And it’s like, Gadreel grasping this about Sam when Dean seemingly did not and this all comes back to Lucifer’s possession where Dean saw how that ended yet Gadreel did not. Gadreel does not intend to leave Sam’s body yet after Crowley gets inside to bring Sam up to speed, Sam just throws Gadreel out, much like he managed to overthrow Lucifer all those years ago so it really does all lead back to Lucifer for Sam. Gadreel who wants to redeem himself for letting the serpent in and sacrificing himself to help accomplish that vs Sam wanting to make up for breaking the last seal and throwing himself into the cage with two furious archangels for what he believed would be eternity; Gadreel apparently never considering Sam to be an actual obstacle in his plans when Crowley knows Sam is actually the main threat here when it comes to Gadreel. He tells Sam to throw “that punk-ass holy roller out.” Crowley sees Sam and Gadreel fighting and yells for Sam to take control and cast him out, with Gadreel telling Sam he’s not strong enough and he might die if he doesn’t. Gadreel more or less calling Sam weak vs Lucifer never thinking for a moment Sam can beat him and then both of them losing to Sam, only Lucifer is back in the cage while Gadreel is evicted. And man, Lucifer briefly pretending that Sam has control right after he possessed Sam before revealing it’s Lucifer calling the shots and Gadreel pretending to be Sam when talking to Dean before killing Kevin and revealing Gadreel’s been in control ever since he learned of Dean’s plan. The parallels are paralleling. Gadreel and Sam is about Lucifer at the core, really. It is all about Lucifer!! From the fact that Sam would rather die than have an angel possess him when Lucifer was the last angel to possess him to Gadreel being so desperate for redemption after Lucifer tricked him to Sam overthrowing Gadreel in a delicious mirror of overpowering Lucifer after Lucifer threatened to make Sam feel every one of Dean’s bones break and Sam saw his own hands smite Kevin thanks to Gadreel to Gadreek being imprisoned like Lucifer was in the Cage and then Sam threw himself into the Cage as well. Two people horribly wronged by Lucifer yet Gadreel horrifically wrongs Sam as well so while Gadreel and Sam should be able to understand each other and get along great due to their respective histories with Lucifer, it’s all overshadowed by what Gadreel did to Sam. Lucifer is essential to the Sam-Gadreel dynamic

Also, poor Kevin, unaware Gadreel is possessing Sam and this leads to his death because Kevin had no way of knowing the person who looked exactly like Sam posed a threat. Even as Kevin questions just why he and Dean painted the sigils, Dean does not tell him Sam is not solely Sam so Kevin thinks it’s possible it’s someone else entirely. Like, Dean even worded the initial mention of the sigils as a hypothetical, he never tells Kevin “there is an unknown angel who lied about his identity in Sam right now” so Kevin fully thinks of course, Sam can be trusted, surely he’d have been told there was a strange angel living where he is or been told Sam might not be Sam, this possessed person must be someone that will be lured to the bunker so the angel can be kicked out. Something something, Sam trusts something that wears his brother’s face and unknowingly allows an angel in while Kevin trusts something that wears Sam’s body and dies as a result: Sam survives due to his trust but would’ve preferred death while Kevin dies and in both cases, Dean plays a major role because Sam 100% trusted what he thought was his brother while Kevin is left unaware of the angel in Sam despite asking Dean what was going on; really, season 9 is about the dangers of lying (or it could’ve been). But Dean telling Sam to make Dean stone number one and this trust being why Sam says yes and then Dean lying to Sam for several episodes. And add in my above stuff about Lucifer being so so important to Sam-Gadreel; we needed Hallucifer during this.

You're literally so right!!!! 

These parallels are insane, the one that really got to me is one I had never considered before: both Lucifer and Gadreel pretending to be Sam (and managing to fool Dean). It really is about how both Sam and Gadreel have been wronged by Lucifer and tried/are trying to redeem themselves of a mistake involving Lucifer, they have a shared trauma in a way, but Gadreel is too caught up in this desperate wish for redemption to see this as a point of connection but instead uses it against Sam by recreating Lucifer's abuse of Sam: He, like Lucifer, possesses Sam, successfully pretends to be him - and ultimately makes the same mistake as Lucifer by underestimating Sam. Like you said, Lucifer is so important to the Sam/Gadreel dynamic!!

And the sad thing is that Sam is the one being that would definitely understand Gadreel and would have been on his side - if only they had met in a different way.

This also made me think about that who knows Sam best poll from a while ago (with Dean and Lucifer as options). Someone (possibly katsidhe?) commented on how Sam is unknowable, people can only grasp parts of him. And it really is like that: Gadreel knows him good enough to know Sam hated having his choice taken away by Dean, yet is unable to recognize that Sam poses a threat to him; Dean for all the ways he knows Sam is unable to understand the betrayal and anger Sam feels after what he did to him; Lucifer understood Sam in the ways they resembled, not in the ways they differed, ultimately unable to recognize the power of his love.

You’re so right! Poor Kevin! He really got the raw deal. In a way he never really had a chance. Yeah most hunters got pushed into that life by traumatic experiences but he was literally forced by heaven when they made him a prophet. And Sam and Dean treated him so shitty and took advantage of him. Yet he still trusts them and that is what gets him killed. I don’t remember the scene you described but Dean seems so sinister to me in that situation, he basically dooms Kevin by withholding vital information from him. God S9 really could have been about the dangers of lying…

(Also, and sorry but I have to get wanky, it’s...let's say interesting how Dean never gets any of the hate for Kevin’s death that Sam gets for Charlie’s death despite the fact that Charlie was an adult who had all the information and made an active choice to get involved in the situation, while Kevin was a teenager who didn’t have essential information about the situation bc Dean actively and intentionally withheld it from him and was basically just trying to survive after being forced into this position.)

[destieltaggedfic]

*slides you a $20 bill* do you have any alternate!dean fics with cas

ooooh. I never knew I was going to be earning those sweet imaginary tumblr dollars for this.

So these are a mix of huntercorp, future Dean, Dean Smith and maybe does Jensen count? Because there is one with Jensen too

A Friggin' Fiat? - anyrei, queerwerewolf   Ao3

Set S15.  When the huntercorp Dean starts showing an interest in Cas, Dean doesn’t like it and is shocked when AU Dean admits that his own Cas was female and that’s why they weren’t together.  He’s even more shocked when Cas agrees to go on a date with him, but at least manages to derail those plans by making his own offer.

Word Count: 8k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts

If I Could Turn Back Time – casbuddy   Ao3

Set S5 AU.  With Lucifer now out of the cage, they are all in danger because Dean is the one prophesied to stop him and the angels are happy to let Lucifer destroy humanity first.  Meanwhile Dean has to deal with the realisation that he’s into Cas and then there is assistance from someone who seems to know every move they are about to make

Word Count: 156k                            Graphic Sexual Acts

Come Into My Office - MaggieMaybe160   Ao3

It’s a terrible life AU.  Infiltrating Sandover to try and locate the Winchesters, Cas finds a much less repressed Dean and they engage in a series of sexual encounters until Cas gets caught by Zachariah.

Word Count: 7k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts

Dean + Cas + Dean – deltorafray   Ao3

Set S15.  Before sending the AU Winchesters back, Dean and Cas invite the other Dean to spend the night in their room. (All the smut is in Chapter 2)

Word Count: 6k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts

Make the Man – trinityofone   Ao3

It’s a terrible life AU.  Sneaking in to make sure that Dean is ok when Zachariah wipes his memories, Cas is distraught to find him so changed, so he starts dressing and acting like the real Dean when they start a relationship.  But Dean’s not the only one being taught a lesson.

Word Count: 9k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts

The Jensen Mistake – fellshish   Ao3

Set S15.  Jensen is beyond unhappy about the ending of the show when reading the script for the finale and decides he’s going to try using the spell from the French Mistake to send him to the Spn parallel world so he can fix the ending and maybe try and fix Destiel as well.

Word Count: 5k                                 No Sex

[mathmusicreading]

Currently thinking about the title of Supernatural season 4 episode 1 "Lazarus Rising". It's so simple and so evocative. I think I get something extra from it because I love Terry Pratchett, Discworld, Hogfather, Discworld's Death, and the quote "where the falling angel meets the rising ape". (Do the Destiel shippers go wild with this? The Cas fans supporting his love for humanity and even creating free will? They should.) But just on it's own, it's referencing coming back to life and the phrasing has connotations of ascension and empowerment. It also avoids connotations of zombies or likening Dean to Jesus Christ.

On that note, I wonder how much Supernatural meant to parallel Dean Winchester to Lazarus of Bethany, and Castiel to Jesus for that matter. (With how little I engage with Supernatural canon, I think my thoughts on Chuck's relationship with Castiel are mixed and not set, but for fun right now: Castiel is Chuck's favorite angel, and Chuck hates it and hates him for it!)

Dean was dead for four months, much like Lazarus was dead for four days. (Dean was also in hell for 40 years, a significant number and amount of time in the Bible. And moving away from the Christianity angle, four is a fitting motif with Dean's death given "four" sounding like "death" in Mandarin Chinese.)

Dean is "the righteous man", while part of the title with which Lazarus is venerated is "Righteous Lazarus".

If "risen dead" evokes zombies and "risen from the dead" invokes Jesus, then "Lazarus rising" conveys that the subject of resurrection is a normal human, and the key is that they are resurrected by a great power who is good. Specifically, Lazarus is resurrected by Jesus, the Son of God, and Dean is resurrected not by a necromancer or demon, but by the angel Castiel, sent on a holy mission.

Jesus did not immediately save Lazarus, rushing to heal him upon hearing of his illness, but waited two days before traveling to and resurrecting Lazarus after he died. I can't help but feel like this is similar to Castiel's not rescuing Dean until 40 years into Dean's sentence in Hell, after he had broken on the rack and become a torturer shedding blood in Hell.

Jesus did not merely heal Lazarus when he was sick, but resurrected him after death, for God's glory and that people might believe in Jesus' own coming resurrection. (God resurrecting Castiel, anyone?) I think Supernatural canon is not explicitly clear, and it may be widespread fanon or a popular fan head canon that Castiel was sent immediately to rescue Dean, but wow the similarity to Jesus and his mission if Cas couldn't reach Dean or wasn't sent until after Dean broke because of heaven's ultimate plan to carryout the apocalypse, rescuing Dean not being about saving a righteous man but about breaking the first seal to Lucifer's cage.

Not full of meaning, but Jesus resurrected Lazarus in his tomb and still wrapped in his grave cloths. So for the people jokingly asking why Castiel left Dean in his coffin, six feet under, instead of zapping him out, it's because we're really leaning into the Jesus angle. (Is Cas lobotomized Jesus?!)

And the kickers now that we've gone through all that: Jesus wept. He was moved with compassion for Lazarus' sisters and friends. He mourned Lazarus' death even while on the way to resurrect him. It was well known by all that he loved Lazarus. Take that how you will and run with it, Cas fans and Destiel shippers!

Last thing not being included with the rest because you can't as easily get it just from reading John 11:1-44 or doing an internet search for Lazarus. DiscIaimer that above, I got the title with which Lazarus is venerated in the Eastern Orthodox Church from Wikipedia, and so too the following Biblical interpretation/theological commentary.

The miracle of the raising of Lazarus is the climax of John's "signs". It explains the crowds seeking Jesus on Palm Sunday, and leads directly to the decision of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin to plan to kill Jesus. Theologians Moloney and Harrington view the raising of Lazarus as a "pivotal miracle" which starts the chain of events that leads to the Crucifixion of Jesus. They consider it as a "resurrection that will lead to death", in that the raising of Lazarus will lead to the death of Jesus, the Son of God, in Jerusalem which will reveal the Glory of God.[17]

Dean's resurrection led to Castiel's death. Castiel died because he saved and loved Dean. When Castiel first laid a hand on [Dean] in Hell, he was lost! Castiel died because Chuck is a Pharisee that can't accept his manly everyman main character (sorry, Sam) is bisexual instead of straight. Chuck can be bisexual, but the manly everyman main character has to be straight, and so he killed Castiel for it. Dean too if you believe Chuck won.

And if the point of Lazarus' resurrection is Jesus' divinity, then the point of Dean's resurrection is that the angel is gay and Dean is bi!

[ardentpoop]

Would you mind expanding on Sam/Amara and Dean/Chuck parallels?

hi :) please see the screencaps I just reblogged as a starting point.

quick summary:

amara is made out to be a villain by chuck, who had used the threat she supposedly posed to humanity as justification for locking her away, when what the real issue turns out to be is that he couldn’t handle not being the one guy in control. obvious parallels with samndean’s relationship in s4. the time that amara spent locked up is comparable to sam’s time not just in the panic room but in the cage as well.

because dean is this story’s central patriarch there are always easy comparisons to make between him and every other patriarch, but especially one with the level of sway over the narrative that chuck is revealed to have, given how seriously dean’s perspective biases the audience’s reaction to everything that transpires. even if you can’t stand chuck as a character/plot development (understandable tbh) you should be able to get some enjoyment out of these comparisons if you really understand dean’s role in the story. dean’s outraged reaction at discovering chuck’s orchestration of samndean’s lives and his desperation to sacrifice jack (and everyone else…. except sam) to ensure that he doesn’t have to live under chuck’s thumb is VERY telling btw. “I can’t live like that, man! I won’t!” because dean hasn’t had to since john died and dean became him. sam, on the other hand, is used to having no control over his own life. it is an essential condition of samndean’s relationship.

plus there’s this, which you can read however you like:

now I’m gonna drop in some dialogue excerpts from one of my top favorite late-seasons episodes, 15.17 “unity.” it is genuinely so delicious and so underrated.

I hope you’re picking up what I’m putting down. there is so much insight into the imbalanced nature of samndean’s relationship, about the way it functions at sam’s expense, and about dean’s influence over the story that you can extract from these scenes.

notably, chuck and amara’s Beautiful Grand Love Story ends with chuck literally consuming amara to keep them “together” and give “them” the best chance at wresting control back from samndean. this ending only came about because dean lied to amara to get her to work against chuck - of course not telling her that he intended to kill her alongside chuck. I don’t remember exactly why but I think dean believed it to be a necessary sacrifice. anyway, potential s4 parallels yet again!

also I used the term “literary chiaroscuro” once to refer to dean and sam’s respective Light and Dark roles and the way these roles are intentionally subverted/messed with - the brothers are compared to michael and lucifer, to cain and abel but also to cain and colette, to their own parents john and mary, to god (chuck) and “the darkness” (amara). I can’t get into the validity of all of these individual comparisons or I’ll be here all day, but they are worth exploring beyond their surface-level similarities.

final note: the difference between chuck and amara’s ending and samndean’s ending in “unity” (which is not-so-secretly my preferred series finale) is that dean backs out of his rampage, his intention to sacrifice Everyone to ensure he got to kill chuck as revenge for puppeteering him to pieces, because sam reminds him of his life’s purpose, instilled in him by john: “protecting” sam. like… dean points a gun at sam and forcibly knocks him to the ground after having convinced jack to kill himself for The Greater Good, and he’s furious and shouting and his hand is on his gun again… but when it comes down to it nothing matters more to dean than sam does. which is dangerous. sam hasn’t been any less “consumed” than amara is by the end of the series, but when a situation with dean needs to be deescalated sam is the only one who knows what dean needs to hear.

I’ll stop here because I think there’s so much more I could say about this episode if I kept thinking about it; perhaps I’ll do a full breakdown at a later date. in the meantime I hope any of this was interesting to you lol.

[lambmotifz]

(previous anon, dont want to be called the sam molestation anon so i'll be the interrobang ⁉️ anon) i rlly agree with u that romantic wincest doesn't really work as sam isn't participating in the relationship the same way dean is. dean is a cage he's in, and he loves his cage because his cage loves him so much why would he want to leave? after everything the cage does for him? why wouldn't he let the cage have him however it needs? it's the least he could do. sorry that doesn't make a ton of sense but do u get me?? it's not like it's a victim/abuser dichotomy but the power dynamic is a INTEGRAL part of the relationship, specifically the imbalance. they neeeeeed that to work

romantic weecest definitely doesn’t work for me, it’s hard to imagine them having some kind of regular romantic relationship as teens because let’s be real here, this dynamic doesn’t have any canon proof. but romantic wincest (let’s say, their post s1 dynamic) does work because mutual pining between them is pretty much canon, at least when it comes to kripke era. i partly agree with you that sam isn’t participating in the relationship the same way dean is because sam doesn’t feel the same obsessive urge to possess that dean feels toward him. sam’s possessiveness & obsession were never on the same level of dean’s

“and he loves his cage because his cage loves him so much why would he want to leave?” and that’s why their dynamic is so deliciously angsty, and that’s also why it doesn’t need to be fixed. like you said, the power dynamic is an integral part of their relationship and they need that to work. sam’s willing submissiveness complements dean’s need to have physical & emotional control over him (which partly comes from the fact that control was taken away from him by his abusive father when dean was younger and some part of him unconsciously seeks a way to try to regain some power/control via his relationship with sam), and that’s why it works and makes their dynamic what it is

[nobodymitskigabriel]

It's like so many of Jack's decisions are colored by naivete or shame. And yes those things are very core to his character but I also feel like the writers were afraid to give him too much unadulterated autonomy because they didn't want to make it seem like Jack would consciously make any sort of "evil" decision.

Like yes killed someone but it was just a freak accident! He trusted Lucifer but he just didn't know any better! He killed Mary but he didn't mean to!! He was feeling overwhelmed and got away from himself :(. He went on a killing spree but he didn't have a soul and was being manipulated by Duma </3.

Even more personal decisions like "choosing" to give up his soul to kill Michael are muddled by the fact that his family was literally up against the wall and he had never been learned to value himself to the point where he'd even consider preserving his soul above his family lives. And "choosing" to become a bomb to kill Chuck because....hello? He was literally so overwhelmed with shame that he'd march himself to slaughter to earn Dean's forgiveness.

I really feel like Jack's character would have benefited a lot from more autonomy bc jfc the cambian Jesse Turner had more autonomy than Jack.

Let's take Sam who was pretty strongly paralleled with Jack in a lot of respects. Yes Sam dealt with manipulation and shame as well BUT in s4 Sam made active decisions like continuing to trust Ruby, use his powers, and drink demon blood. Things that Chuck explicitly said would make him seem "unsympathetic" to the audience. During the whole demon blood arc there were times when the audience wasn't even sure who was telling the truth or who's was in the right. Maybe Ruby is good. Or maybe Sam IS actually going down the dark path.

We as the audience realize that there was a chance Sam never came down from that high. If things were different maybe he could have gotten drafted for Azazel's evil army or Lucifer’s enthusiastic vessel and that's what makes his decision to finally counter "his nature" so powerful. Even after he freed Lucifer, Sam felt ashamed but he still advocated for himself and his decision to jump into the Cage to trap Lucifer again was not colored by a need to have Dean forgive him.

I think this is partly where all the incessantly babying of Jack comes from. Instead of getting to see him deal with any real moral crossroads and come to a decision, he's bombarded by outside forces and "acts out" to the point where his arc is more comparable to an orca than a person.

[nekoshi13]

You know, there's plenty to complain about wasted potential in characters, wasted story lines and the like but my biggest, hugest gripe with this show (beyond the homophobia but that's a different topic) is how much they wasted every archangel that wasn't Lucifer. And even Lucifer got absolutely butchered in season 15!

We met Raphael for so little that I can even think about what could have been done differently with him. Probably seeing more of the civil war in heaven would have helped both Raphael to feel more like an actual character instead of a figure stick placed to be Castiel's antagonist and Cas himself to not look like the asshole the writers tried to make him look like in s6

Gabriel was an amazing character that, like mostly everyone that wasn't Sam and Dean, deserved way more screen time that he got. But even with what we had, bringing him back in s13 to do absolutely nothing more than make Lucifer cry once and then killing him again was an absolute disservice to the archangel that died in the apocalypse facing his brother for the right reasons. He could have stuck around and if they really didn't want to have the power of an archangel on the side of the good guys then keep him depowered and let him process his trauma instead of healing in like 2 seconds

Michael... where do I even begin with Michael? The most powerful archangel, our Dean parallel in the celestial family, the obedient soldier that was still the nicest he could be to his vessels and I don't think he even had half an hour total of screen time. And let's be clear, I am not counting Apocalypse Michael here, this is about our world Michael, OG Michael. For starters we should have seen way more of him than we did. From season 11 onwards there were so many occasions in which the boys could have at least tried to talk to him AND THEY COULD DO IT but they never even tried. I do however love what they did with him and Adam when they finally left the cage, although I would have been the first one cheering them on if they went for revenge I think what they did makes clear just how different and not actually evil was Michael. I hate that even in the season where we know they are out there we barely see him, I would have loved to see more of his conflict about what his father did, seeing him grieve Adam (friendly or romantic, whatever is good for me at this point) and... well, here comes the biggest bad thing they did to him, I would have loved to see him stand up to his father, Michael deserved to do that, he was one of the angels who got most deeply screwed over by Chuck and he deserved to punch him in the face

And while in that topic... Lucifer. Lucifer was the archangel with the best arc, he was a great villain and the fact that the Mark was what made him like is in the first place made him actually sympathetic, when he told Michael he didn't want to fight him, the whole thing with Chuck I'm season 11 and then he realizing he had been played by his father in season 12 and wanting to prove he could do better was great. I loved what looked like a redemption arc for him because besides Michael, he also got incredibly screwed by their father. I hated that he turned on Jack like he did, I wish that whatever confrontation needed to happen at the end of season 13 would have been more out of being scared of AU!Michael and wanting to protect Jack even if he had to do it forcefully. The fact that Nick was somehow alive after his death was strange as fuck and I wish they had explained how exactly after he looked dead in S5 but regardless, the fact that he wanted Lucifer back I think says something about how he interacts with his vessels (when said vessel doesn't drag him back to his cage, I guess, sorry Sam, I love you). But biggest sin against him was how he went right back to Chuck like a dumbass in s15. S12 Lucifer, my beloved, he would never. He deserved to punch Chuck as much as Michael, I wish they had teamed up and punched Chuck together. Bet two archangels fighting god would have charged up Jack faster and would not have been as ridiculous as two humans being beaten up by god and being just mildly hurt at the end, they could still stand...

Anyway, the archangels deserved better, thanks for coming to my tedtalk