#people love talking about how much ironwood was traumatized

[kitkatopinions]

If yang is treated like an awful sister in volume 9 and her paying attention to blake and ignoring ruby is treated as a flaw and was called out for said flaw how you feel about that?

I think in general, I completely agree with the people calling Yang an awful sister in Volume 9. I've heard every defense imaginable for why she was acting the way she was acting in V9, but really, Ruby's growing breakdown and her suffering was obvious. Like Ruby quite literally fainted from her trauma, and went through almost the whole volume in uncharacteristic gloom while showing complete disinterest in trying to get back her once beloved weapon, only having small two second moments of happiness here and there that quickly got crushed, being self-deprecating, hunching in on herself, trying not to fall apart, and then she had a panic attack during the fight with Neo's Jabberwalkers at the Paper Pleaser's village, and.... Yang was doing what? Not noticing.

Giggling and flirting, and smarting off and rolling her eyes, and having a grand old time in her fights, and dismissing it when Ruby did start to talk about her regrets by saying it's like Ironwood. Yeah, Yang shows some minor concern sometimes before Ruby's breakdown, but to me it felt like less concern than one of my coworkers had shown one time that I was sick at work and they had to drive me home. It didn't feel like the care a good older sister would show to a traumatized and clearly struggling beloved younger sister, it felt like the passing obligatory sympathy a stranger would show to another stranger if they found them crying at a bar. Like 'Oh are you okay? Yeah? Okay, if you're sure. I'll get back to my friend group.' And then you just move on and try to have fun for the rest of the night. That's how Yang prior to Ruby's breakdown feels to me.

Then while Ruby's having her breakdown, what does Yang do?

Yang 1. treats Ruby like a threat to Blake and glares at her. 2. does absolutely nothing to console Ruby or protest her words in any way. 3. does absolutely nothing when Jaune starts yelling in her face victim blaming her for things outside of her control and essentially saying she's not allowed to feel bad things or express that she feels bad things while she's standing there crying. 4. Doesn't immediately run after her when she takes off alone in a dangerous chaos world after she just demonstrated that she might not be able to fight, is clearly emotionally compromised, and being actively targeted by Neo who just made it even more clear that she's gunning directly for Ruby. 5. Gets angry like "how could she be kinda mean to me? Why couldn't she talk to me even though I shot her down the one time she expressed negative feelings to me? Ugh she's so impossible, not being one hundred percent okay after the death of her friend and being upset that I'm treating this like a romantic fun getaway while she's spiraling into an obvious breakdown that I didn't notice at all."

And then when Ruby ascends, Yang is like beaming away hugging Jaune like five minutes later? And when she sees Ruby in the tree, she's at least somewhat affected - although still much less than I'd want her to be, like compare Yang seeing Ruby in the tree to when the Doctor in Doctor Who thought he lost Rose for the first time, or Jack Harkness when Rose "dies" in front of him (since they didn't even know each other that long,) or Martha the first time Jack "dies" in front of her despite the fact that it was the first time she'd seen him, or Rose the first time Jack "dies" in front of her, or Amy and the Doctor the first time Rory "dies" in front of them, or Amy and the Doctor the second time Rory "dies" in front of them- You get the point. Yang is supposed to be Ruby's sister, but her reactions go between limited and not nearly emotional enough to near non-existent, and we're supposed to buy it as the single most caring and loving older sister that raised Ruby on her own and just loves her oh so much? I don't buy it.

Especially because Yang then completely ignores all the suffering Ruby's been through and how Ruby explicitly said she didn't want to be treated like a perfect girl with all the answers and didn't want to be the leader anymore, and was like "oh yeah Ruby is our perfect leader who never doubts herself and never shows weakness and has never been confused a day in her life." How am I supposed to think of Yang as a caring older sister when she completely ignores Ruby and disregards what she says and what she needs, in order to over-rely on her? Volume 9 made Yang look like a terrible sister tbh.

I will clarify: The problem isn't 'Yang gives Blake attention,' it's that the writers can't seem to write both 'Yang gives Blake attention, cares about her, and loves her as a romantic partner' and 'Yang gives Ruby attention, cares about her, and loves her as a sister.' They tend to push Ruby and Yang's relationship to the back and focus on Blake and Yang's relationship when they could and should be focusing on both sets of dynamics. Because of how much Ruby's relationship with Yang is shoved to the side and Blake and Yang's is emphasized, it does make it feel like Yang cares much more about Blake than she does about Ruby - coupled with things like Yang protectively stepping in front of Blake when Ruby is upset or even earlier, her pulling Blake out of the house with apathy in V6 while Ruby was still in the building and Qrow was passed out drunk on the counter. But the problem isn't 'Yang is written to care about Blake' it's that it feels like the writers only write her to care about Blake and don't care about her other dynamics, which makes it feel like she doesn't really care about Ruby that much at all.

It's very sad, because one of the reasons I originally loved Yang was that I connected with her as an older sister. I love my younger sister very much, I would do anything for her, I want to protect her, but I also think of her as very strong and able to protect herself, similar to how Yang acted in the first five seasons. Yang was one of my absolute favorite characters in RWBY - if not my number one favorite - partially because of how good it felt to see a sibling relationship where they loved and cared about each other and prioritized each other. Now I'm really struggling to like Yang's character at all, and a big reason for that is that it no longer feels like she really cares that much about Ruby. So yeah. XD

TL;DR: I actually completely agree with the people saying Yang is being a bad sister, and her ignoring Ruby is totally a flaw that I'd call out.

[enigma2meagain]

I feel like there’s a double standard here when it comes to how people talk about specific characters’ trauma in RWBY.

Because people keep on talking about how Ironwood’s trauma was not given enough sympathy and add that as being “yet another thing RWBY is horrible for and being insensitive about”, yet none of them ever seem to bring up how much RWBYJNPR have been through so much crap and suffer from trauma themselves ever since Volume 3 (the same amount of time as Ironwood mind you), yet people never even seem to bring it up.

Like I understand that trauma doesn’t always show up in the exact same way for every person and they don’t always bring it up in obvious ways (Ren and Nora’s rage and fear towards the Nuckalavee, Jaune single mindly training himself and acting all aggressive and orienting himself towards fighting, Ruby basically suppressing her pain for so many volumes and basically just trying to go from one plan to the next to avoid really thinking about, EVERYTHING with Yang and losing her arm to Adam and being abandoned by Blake, Blake’s abuse by Adam, etc.), but that doesn’t mean the trauma doesn’t exist anymore.

I swear, for all of people’s fixation on the depth of showing trauma in characters, they frankly seem to be extremely selective about WHOSE trauma is treated as important when it comes to certain characters.

I mean, if we’re REALLY being reductive here, I could argue that Ironwood has the least sympathetic presentation when it comes to his trauma out of the protagonists’ side (at least prior to his fall), because the main characters have literally been:

trekking across Grimm-infested territory for months

having to face an assassination attempt by Salem’s group.

nearly being killed many times by dangerous Grimm and reminders of their past (Ren and Nora).

getting to a safe haven and finding out that the friends they were supposed to have were traitors.

FINDING OUT THE ORIGINS OF SALEM and finding out that she can’t be killed and that Ozpin was basically leading them on a giant suicide mission and that all of their efforts might have been for nothing.

dealing with Depression Zombies who nearly killed them all.

and finally making it to Atlas to find out the other safe haven is a police state led by a sanity-eroded Ironwood.

And that’s not even including everything that happened while in Atlas either. You know, the parts where Penny constantly has to deal with people trying to get her at any means necessary, where everyone is running on minimal sleep and few resources to try to save everyone from the tyranny of Salem and Ironwood, the whole shebang with the Hound Grimm and what it implies for Ruby and her mom? Oscar being kidnapped and tortured by Salem and Hazel? Ren snapping under the pressure of something he can’t figure out how to deal with because he’s repressed his emotions ever since the beginning?

Meanwhile, what has Ironwood been doing with his traumatized ass? Sitting in Atlas, where he has plenty of resources at his disposal to possibly help himself, and instead spends a good chunk of that time bullying Mantle for their stuff to build his tower, while going all “WOE IS ME, SALEM MADE ME LOOK BAD AND FEEL WEAK! I’M NOT WEEEEEEAK!”

I mean ffs, he made the traumatizing event at Beacon, which was experienced by pretty much all of the main cast, all about himself.

I GET that Ironwood was traumatized, and as much as the above post may seem otherwise, his trauma is valid in it’s own right, but acting as if his was the only one that mattered is so fucking reductive, and honestly makes it seem like people only selectively care about his trauma to the exclusion of the other character’s traumas.

[weirwoodking]

I have a small headcanon that Sansa has already skinchanged into a bird without her knowledge once before. This passage about Marillion in the sky cells in particular:

“When she closed her eyes she could see him in his sky cell, huddled in a corner away from the cold black sky, crouched beneath a fur with his woodharp cradled against his chest.”

What do you think?

Oh, absolutely. I do think that she’s experienced her powers in some way, she just hasn’t thought about them.

George does leave these little subtle hints in the text that point to the Stark kids abilities, the earliest being in chapter one:

Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?” their lord father asked.

“Can’t you hear it?”

Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup, but Jon was listening to something else.

“There,” Jon said. He swung his horse around and galloped back across the bridge. They watched him dismount where the direwolf lay dead in the snow, watched him kneel. A moment later he was riding back to them, smiling.

“He must have crawled away from the others,” Jon said. (Bran I, AGOT)

While on horseback, and halfway across the bridge, already far away from where a mute direwolf puppy was, Jon was able to “hear” him. Obviously, he didn’t hear Ghost, he sensed him. Already, he was bonded with Ghost, even though this was about a year and half before Jon had his first “true” wolf dream. And furthermore, it takes a while before he’s able to clearly remember these dreams:

The wolf dreams had been growing stronger, and he found himself remembering them even when awake. (Jon I, ADWD)

So, yes, I definitely think that Sansa could already be having skinchanging dreams with a bird/birds. She just might not remember it. Also, she doesn’t have to have been having direct dreams, but moments of using the bird’s senses. Not fully in the animal, just sharing it’s space for a moment.

Unlike the sh*w, where skinchanging is an on/off switch (you’re either inside the animal or not inside the animal), skinchanging in the books is more nuanced. Jon is able to brush his hand up against Ghost and tap into the wolf’s senses, without fully warging him. He can even taste blood in his mouth after Ghost kills, and he can feel the wolf’s hunger. The most notable instance of this “one mind in two bodies simultaneously” thing is with Arya and the Braavos street cat:

That night she dreamed she was a wolf again, but it was different from the other dreams. In this dream she had no pack. She prowled alone, bounding over rooftops and padding silently beside the banks of a canal, stalking shadows through the fog. (Cat of the Canals, AFFC)

The tavern was near empty, and she was able to claim a quiet corner not far from the fire. No sooner had she settled there and crossed her legs than something brushed up against her thigh. "You again?" said the blind girl. She scratched his head behind one ear, and the cat jumped up into her lap and began to purr. Braavos was full of cats, and no place more than Pynto's. The old pirate believed they brought good luck and kept his tavern free of vermin. "You know me, don't you?" she whispered. Cats were not fooled by a mummer's moles. They remembered Cat of the Canals.

[...]

The Lyseni took the table nearest to the fire and spoke quietly over cups of black tar rum, keeping their voices low so no one could overhear. But she was no one and she heard most every word. And for a time it seemed that she could see them too, through the slitted yellow eyes of the tomcat purring in her lap. One was old and one was young and one had lost an ear, but all three had the white-blond hair and smooth fair skin of Lys, where the blood of the old Freehold still ran strong. (The Blind Girl, ADWD)

"It is good to know. This is two. Is there a third?"

"Yes. I know that you're the one who has been hitting me." Her stick flashed out, and cracked against his fingers, sending his own stick clattering to the floor.

The priest winced and snatched his hand back. "And how could a blind girl know that?"

I saw you. "I gave you three. I don't need to give you four." Maybe on the morrow she would tell him about the cat that had followed her home last night from Pynto's, the cat that was hiding in the rafters, looking down on them. Or maybe not. If he could have secrets, so could she. (The Blind Girl, ADWD)

While Arya is not fully outside of her body and in the body of the cat, she’s able to use the cat’s eyes as her own. And she isn’t even aware that she’s doing it, it’s just occurring naturally. I do believe that the same cat she dreams as in AFFC is the tomcat that she sees through in ADWD.

So, yes, I do believe that Sansa could be looking through the eyes of a bird. She’s just not aware of it.

It does seem like the Stark kids are much more powerful than the average skinchangers/wargs, immediately bonding to the wolves without realizing it, and already connecting with other animals. Arya is able to warg Nymeria from an entirely separate continent, which probably isn’t standard behavior, especially not for someone who doesn’t even know what they’re doing and has no training. Even Varamyr, a man who has mastered the control of five animals, recognizes Jon’s power:

The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it. (Prologue, ADWD)

So, the Starks seem to be pretty powerful. And that includes Sansa, as GRRM has confirmed that she is still a skinchanger, meaning that he’s definitely going to have a bond with an animal at some point. It would make sense for him to have already been leaving little hints about it.

A very important component to Sansa’s character, which could be affecting her skinchanging powers, is her memory. The way that Sansa’s mind has coped with her trauma is by suppressing and rewriting certain distressing, scarring, and confusing memories. This is something that all the Stark kids do, in different levels. For example, Bran believes that Rickon intentionally suppresses the memory of Ned being dead:

"Tell Robb I want him to come home," said Rickon. "He can bring his wolf home too, and Mother and Father." Though he knew Lord Eddard was dead, sometimes Rickon forgot... willfully, Bran suspected. (Bran V, ACOK)

Bran himself does this as well:

The dream he'd had... the dream Summer had had... No, I mustn't think about that dream. He had not even told the Reeds, though Meera at least seemed to sense that something was wrong. If he never talked of it maybe he could forget he ever dreamed it, and then it wouldn't have happened and Robb and Grey Wind would still be... (Bran IV, ASOS)

Sansa does this the most out of her siblings, it’s her primary coping mechanism. One example is how remembers (or tries not to remember) Jeyne Poole:

Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears. (Sansa II, ACOK)

She tries to not to think of her, because it’s too traumatic for her to do so.

Another example is how she’s trying to process the situations she’s in at the Eyrie.

I am not your daughter, she thought. I am Sansa Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter and Lady Catelyn's, the blood of Winterfell. She did not say it, though. If not for Petyr Baelish it would have been Sansa who went spinning through a cold blue sky to stony death six hundred feet below, instead of Lysa Arryn. He is so bold. Sansa wished she had his courage. She wanted to crawl back into bed and hide beneath her blanket, to sleep and sleep. She had not slept a whole night through since Lysa Arryn's death. (Sansa I, AFFC)

He is serving me lies as well, Sansa realized. They were comforting lies, though, and she thought them kindly meant. A lie is not so bad if it is kindly meant. If only she believed them...

The things her aunt had said just before she fell still troubled Sansa greatly. "Ravings," Petyr called them. "My wife was mad, you saw that for yourself." And so she had. All I did was build a snow castle, and she meant to push me out the Moon Door. Petyr saved me. He loved my mother well, and...

And her? How could she doubt it? He had saved her.

He saved Alayne, his daughter, a voice within her whispered. But she was Sansa too... and sometimes it seemed to her that the Lord Protector was two people as well. He was Petyr, her protector, warm and funny and gentle... but he was also Littlefinger, the lord she'd known at King's Landing, smiling slyly and stroking his beard as he whispered in Queen Cersei's ear. And Littlefinger was no friend of hers. When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never lifted so much as his little finger for her.

Except to get me out. He did that for me. I thought it was Ser Dontos, my poor old drunken Florian, but it was Petyr all the while. Littlefinger was only a mask he had to wear. Only sometimes Sansa found it hard to tell where the man ended and the mask began. Littlefinger and Lord Petyr looked so very much alike. She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. Tyrion had been put to death for killing Joffrey, and if she ever returned to King's Landing the queen would have her head as well. The aunt she'd hoped would keep her safe had tried to murder her instead. Her uncle Edmure was a captive of the Freys, while her great-uncle the Blackfish was under siege at Riverrun. I have no place but here, Sansa thought miserably, and no true friend but Petyr. (Sansa I, AFFC)

Sansa knows deep down (not even that deep, just down) that Petyr is untrustworthy. She knows he’s fed her lies, but she wants to believe them. She wants to be able to trust him. She wants to feel like she can be safe with him. She wants to be safe. It bothers me a lot whenever people say Sansa is “stupid” for trusting Petyr, or “uncaring” for not thinking often of Jeyne. She isn’t stupid or uncaring, she’s a traumatized thirteen year old whose brain is trying to cope with what she’s gone through and what she’s currently going through.

So, she has built a wall. And behind that wall are the memories of Lysa’s death, the truth about Jon Arryn’s murder, and Jeyne Poole. I think it would make sense if skinchanging, something that involves the mind, is also something that she’s subconsciously repressing. I talked about this sometime a while ago, but I believe that a big moment for Sansa in TWOW is going to be her confronting her memories. And most significantly, confronting Baelish about what happened to Jeyne Poole and exposing the truth of Jon Arryn and Lysa’s deaths. Thus, defeating Littlefinger, the mockingbird.

It would make sense if this coincided with her skinchanging abilities truly awakening. As her mind opens, her powers become stronger. I’m pretty deadset on Sansa’s bird being a falcon, not just for the House Arryn connection and because she’s gone hawking with a falcon before, but also because of the symbolism. Falcons symbolize “vision, freedom, and victory. Hence, it also connotes salvation to those who are in bondage whether moral, emotional, or spiritual”. I think that Sansa bonding with a falcon and “flying free” would be perfect for the conclusion of her caged bird arc.

Sorry, this got really long, it just kind of turned into all my thoughts about how skinchanger-Sansa might come to be in TWOW. I think it’s going to be an important part of her story, as you don’t just give four of your POV characters the ability to control animals with their minds and not have that matter. (And, it’s already an important part of Jon, Arya, and Bran’s stories, so it most likely will be for Sansa, too.)

[hamliet]

Hi! What are in your opinion the 5/10 best written characters in RWBY so far? And why? Also, is there a character that you think is underrated?

Okay. So, it is hard for me to rank character arcs that are not finished yet, so I'm biased to give arcs I see as complete or mostly complete higher opinions (or lower!) based on the fact that there will be little if anything new added.

(The underrated character? Oh hell yeah. They’re on here. See #5)

1) Penny Polendina

I feel like I've said a lot of what I feel about Penny already, and @aspoonofsugar has posted excellent analyses of our girl too. Her arc is brilliantly written and so it pains me to see fandom thinking it's badly done. It was cathartic for me, shocking but sensical, and ultimately beautiful and hopeful despite its immense tragedy and unfairness. Kind of all you can ask from a tragic arc.

2) Cinder Fall

I think Cinder will end up as #1, honestly, because her arc is longer and more complex than Penny's, but it's not done yet. Her backstory, though? It was excellently woven into the story and thus far is my favorite use of the fairy tale allusion. I find her development realistic, her psyche fascinating, and am convinced the seeds of redemption will flourish because of how tightly written her arc has been so far. See more here for my thoughts on Cinder's arc.

3) Pyrrha Nikos

Tragedy, tragedy. Pyrrha's arc in volume 3 was what ultimately gripped me onto the RWBY train--I liked the first two seasons and was intrigued, but Pyrrha's tragedy was just so perfectly executed, a huge shift in tone, and a stunningly cathartic finale that made me feel things.

4) James Ironwood

I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with people thinking Ironwood was poorly written. He was not. He was exemplary of RWBY's take on humanity: complex. He was a good man at heart who turned into a genocidal tyrant. Do you really think that the genocidal tyrants in real life are not also motivated in part by goodness, even if tempered by fear? His arc was sobering and his ending fitting. He reminds me of SnK's Eren Jaeger, in that these arcs aren't popular nowadays in fiction, but are perhaps needed more than ever.

5) Mercury Black

Okay, here he is, the character I think is most underrated. The fandom is sleeping on him, I tell you! Almost every. single. scene. Mercury appears in develops him and sheds new light on his character. He's had major save-the-cat moments from his first appearance with Emerald, and his backstory is the most dark and traumatic of anyone we've heard--even more so than Cinder's, like, objectively speaking.

A child whose father abused him and stole his soul so he killed him--while still a kid! The subtext of Mercury's father stealing his soul isn't subtle and it's devastating, and to see that same subtext carried over in Mercury's relationship with Tyrian is agonizing to watch. Mercury's own internalization of his abuse--telling himself that he doesn't need family while very much regarding Cinder as exactly his family (the same way he thought of his father--yet his desire to protect Emerald from the same pain, his contradictory expectation/excusing of abuse and his realization that it isn't right in how he talks to Emerald--he's got the potential to be one of the top 3, honestly.

The heart of what RWBY has to say about abused and unwanted children lies with Mercury Black. He can't break out of the cycle of abuse, and he's an unreliable narrator, but he does truly care about Emerald, which will be his saving grace.

Anyways, obviously the meat of Merc’s arc isn’t here yet. But the set up is so well done that he’s fairly high up. 

6) Weiss Schnee

Weiss is my girl. I love her development and how it's been integrated through all the volumes thus far: her slowly learning to become her own person, to become her own special snowflake (heh) instead of relying on the Schnee name. I also think Weiss's arc isn't finished and there's still a decent substance of it ahead, but so far there's enough for me to put her here.

7) Winter Schnee

Again, as with Weiss, I think Winter will have some development in coming volumes, but I do think the majority of her focus was in volume 8. I love her relationships with Penny and her siblings, her relationship with Jacques, the Ace-Ops, and the way she became the maiden was bittersweet, agonizing, and hopeful at the same time. She would have died there at Ironwood's hands if not for Penny, but it's unfair, because of Penny's then death. But it's perfectly compliments and foils both Penny's and Cinder's arcs, because Winter had been in line to receive the maiden power. But she couldn't receive it because she was supposed to. Instead, it was the choice of her genuine friend that gave her the powers.

8) Yang Xiao Long

I love Yang's confrontation with her mother in volume 5; it's one of my favorite dialogues in the entire show. Her struggle with abandonment fears are realistic and painful, as is her struggle with PTSD. I love that instead of learning to abandon abandoners, Yang instead is challenged through falling for Blake (whose flaw is to run and abandon). This both compliments and challenges Yang's own flaw (rushing in and hurting herself).

9) Emerald Sustrai

Emerald is also ranked lower because I feel like the crux of her arc is looming but we are just not quuuuuite there yet. I still think Maiden!Emerald is a genuine possibility, and a confrontation with Cinder lies ahead. But the heart of her arc isn't any power or even redemption: it's about her desire for family. RWBY deals in complexity, remember. Cinder might not have truly cared for Em the way Em did for her, but Mercury does. Emerald should be instrumental to saving Mercury.

10) Oscar Pine

Again I think the crux of his arc lies ahead, but he's incredibly compelling to me, and his struggle to not want to be Ozpin's latest bodily host and to remain himself is at the heart of RWBY's themes: what makes us who we are?

11) Ruby Rose

I fully expect Ruby to work her way to the top 5 in the next few seasons, though. I just feel like we haven't gotten to the meat of her arc yet, even though she's one of my favorite characters in the story. So she's like simmering in the background.

12) Jaune Arc

I also think Jaune will work his way up. I think his arc has been excellently conducted so far, going from a coward to a hero. However, I think a major part of his arc will be in the fallout from killing Penny, so I'm excited to see it but it leaves him down the list... for now.

Special shout-outs to Ilia Amitola and Qrow.

[professorspork]

Hot take, perhaps, but if/when Penny 3.0 happens I don't think she should have Floating Array, etherial or otherwise. It's just too bound up with her self-image as a Weapon instead of a Person. If Penny gets a sword, it needs to be a sword she can put down.

This is-- a fascinating take! I’m not sure I agree with it, but I think there’s some meaty ideas here worth unpacking. And I do think we agree on the fundamental premise (i.e. Penny’s autonomy needs to be foregrounded above all).

You assert that Penny’s current problem is that she sees herself as a Weapon and not a Person, and I don’t think that’s exactly the case. 

One of the things I admire most about Penny is is that when people try and tell her who (or, insultingly, what) she is, she quietly but assertively refutes them. Though early on her conviction in her own personhood was somewhat shaky, when her friends encouraged her she took it to heart. After Ruby “I Love You And Your Beautiful Soul” Rose told her that she was real and Winter “Everyone’s Feelings Are Valid Except For Mine” Schnee told her that her opinions mattered, she got-- really quite bullish about this. To illustrate:

Random citizen: It's Ironwood's robot! Robyn: [suspicious] Penny. Penny: I-- I didn't! [7.06, A Night Off]

Vine: I thought you were supposed to protect the people, not hurt them. Penny: I would never hurt anyone. Elm: Well Winter’s in critical condition, because of you. Harriet: And you repaid her by stealing the power that should have been hers. Penny: But taking the Maiden power was the only way to stop-- [8.03, Strings]

Cinder: You’re just a tool to be used! Penny: You do not know what you are talking about. ... Cinder: I don’t serve anyone. And you wouldn’t either, if you weren't built that way. Penny: That is not… I choose to fight for people who care about me. [8.05, Amity]

Which isn’t to say Penny isn’t prone to self-doubt, because she absolutely is, or that Penny doesn’t have a self-sacrifice streak a mile wide, because she absolutely does. But Penny wouldn’t have that reflexive, Janet-saying-“Not-a-girl”-style reaction to people telling her she’s nothing but a weapon unless she genuinely thought they were wrong. She’s not defensive, in these moments, even though she’s defending herself. She’s certain.

Maybe this is me splitting hairs with your argument, but I don’t think Penny’s issue is that she sees herself as a weapon. It’s that she sees herself as a hero. Not just a soldier, but THE soldier. The Protector of Mantle. She’s not Winter; she’s not most comfortable when she’s got orders she can hide behind so she can reassure herself she’s doing the right thing because someone else already did that math. She’s-- she’s Spider-Man. She feels a tremendous responsibility to save everyone she can, because that’s what you do. And yes that’s also, literally, what she was built for, so I can see where the argument is coming from, but I think it matters that the argument’s being made about someone from Remnant.

And on Remnant, your weapon is an extension of who you are.

We’ve never, as far as I can remember, seen anyone straight up switch their weapon. Ironwood made the nuke attachment for his pistols, but it’s still Due Process underneath. Maria only carries one of her two canes, now, but she didn’t make any design changes. Same with Yang and (lefty) Ember Celica. Jaune gave Crocea Mors substantial upgrades, but it’s fundamentally the same weapon; Blake chose to solder Gambol Shroud back together rather than replace it... and if anyone had an argument that using the same weapon might be too traumatic, it would be her. I mean, hell, the Messrs Oz have been using the same staff for millennia.

Weapons aren’t something you turn your back on. I don’t think it’s something that would occur to people. It would be like-- like turning off your Aura. That’s you. 

Unless, of course, you’re Cinder.

Cinder gave up on Midnight after the Beacon arc, and we’ve never seen it since. She relies exclusively on Maiden weapons instead-- some of which she molds into forms quite similar to her old swords or bow, but still. She tossed it aside. This follows the logic of the show: Cinder discarded the weapons, and with them the person she used to be, when she found it all to be lacking. Instead, she embraces what she sees as a higher form of power.

I don’t think Penny would think of Floating Array that way; as a sign of her failure. Nor do I think she’d see it as the prophesy/burden your take implies.

Granted, Watts used a sword from Floating Array in order to get access to her code and install the virus; it ended up being the vector for a huge breach of autonomy and violation of consent. But so was Tyrian using Harbinger to murder Clover, and Qrow’s still using it.

And granted, Penny didn’t choose Floating Array in the same way most people chose or designed their own weapons. She was born with it; activated combat-ready. But then, that’s not so different from Jaune inheriting Crocea Mors, is it? It might not be what either of them would have selected or been most suited for if they’d had the chance to say for themselves at the start, but... well, we’re far from the start, now. And Penny does choose Floating Array, when it matters. When she conjures weapons in her new, self-created body, she instinctively reaches for what she knows, what’s familiar. Her father’s providence. So for me, the moment you’re alluding to... it’s already happened. The whole point of leveraging Ambrosius’ limitations in the way they did is that Penny is separated from the parts of her that can be weaponized-- she watches her synthetic body eat itself, consumed by its own self-destructive urges. It doesn’t get much more metaphor-made-literal than that!

What remains, then, is Penny. And Penny uses Floating Array.

If Penny comes back and doesn’t resume the Winter Maidenhood (which I think is... low on the list of options, given Winter’s desperation and the likelihood that Maiden transference shenanigans are going to be a part of the vehicle that allows Penny to return in the first place), then she won’t have a choice. Either because that will mean she’s back in a 3.0 robot body (in which case it’s the same lack of choice she always had; Pietro wouldn’t give her an unfamiliar weapon after all that) or because she’s a Regular Normal Flesh Gal now and unless her Semblance is telekinesis (which it may be!!! we don’t know!!!) a weapon like Floating Array just isn’t on the table. But all of that, as I’ve already laid out, has to contend with so many unknown factors. How she comes back, and in what form, and at which time.

If Penny does end up designing a wholly new weapon, to me that would signal total transformation, given the rules and themes of the world. And that... well, it depends on the execution, I suppose, but I think I’d find that a little alarming. That she’d choose to have so little of her old self in her new form. But on the other hand, maybe I’m dead wrong there! That could also be read as yet another gorgeous act of creation by the Maiden best suited to it; it could be Penny choosing to yes-and herself into doubling down on her identity. She could be SO MUCH of a person that she, and she alone, gets to make a new weapon for her new self. I’m not against any of that! 

But even if that’s the case, I still think we’d see the hard light version of Floating Array again, especially if we have a Maidenbowl Redux. Even if I were to concede to your point that it’s too bound up in her self-image issues, that doesn’t imply to me that she’d have to move beyond it. If she’s to contend with herself, if she’s to decide she’s a person and not a weapon as you lay out, she’s going to put all of herself in the effort. As the speech goes, it’s a part of her. Even if it’s just a part, that’s still... a part. And this show has never been about severing yourself from your broken bits; it’s been about embracing them tenderly and letting them actually heal.

...also, Floating Array is *checks notes* cool. 

[firelxdykatara]

bumbleby and kataang for the honest ship ask??

MONA PLEASE DO YOU REALLY WANT ME TO DIE -sobs-

I already answered kataang here and was pretty thorough, but one extra thing I will say is that I absolutely hate it when the response to someone not liking kataang or thinking they shouldn't have ended up together is 'but what about Aang? he'd be so hurt!' like... so?

I mean that genuinely. So what? He was a twelve, maybe thirteen-year-old kid by the end of the series. He'd get over it and move on and be just fine if his childhood puppylove crush didn't like him back and wound up dating someone else. 'But what about the cloudbabies???' Do y'all think Katara's the only woman on the planet???? I promise you, Aang would be able to have kids with anyone else if he grew up and fell in love with someone who could bear them--and considering that Tenzin didn't look anything at all like Katara, he and his airbending kids could easily have come from Aang's relationship to literally anyone else.

But also, like, heaven forbid I focus on Katara's feelings and what she'd get out of a romantic relationship without thinking about how much that might hurt her canon boyfriend. Who cares? This ain't about him. He could easily move on and find someone else, that's not the issue here. The issue is Katara. Focus on her, please.

Bumbleby:

Ohhh boy you really wanna stick me in hot water huh kdljfghkdjfhg OK BUT LIKE. REALTALK. At the end of the day, there's just... nothing there.

I know there's meant to be, and I know it's supposed to be a big deal that Yang lost her arm protecting Blake and then Blake ran away and then Blake came back and all of that, but like... it's really not reflected in their relationship at all. They don't talk about anything they went through. They get a couple moments in v6 (but no real conversation), they get Blake promising to never leave again (which is not even remotely a healthy mindset for beginning a relationship, especially when we see the fallout of that declaration--indirectly, because of course these characters never actually talk about anything important--in v8) without ever actually discussing why she left in the first place or why Yang was so hurt by it, then they kill a man together in the v6 finale and never talk about that (and this isn't me saying he didn't deserve it, this is me saying that I don't care what kind of wretched son of a bitch someone might be, killing another human being is traumatic and will have an affect on you, and the fact that Blake and Yang never fucking talk about or work through that trauma is.... very bad), and that was it for v6.

Then in v7, aside from superficial nonsense about going out dancing instead of to a political rally bc I guess Blake doesn't really care about Faunus Rights anymore, Blake follows Yang's lead and lies to everyone about the Robyn situation which leads to even more bad shit happening when Ironwood figures out what they'd done, and then in v8 you have the most bland argument ever between Yang and Ruby and Blake seeming to be ashamed when they reunite (as if she thought Yang would be disappointed in or angry with her for.... going with one half of the group to accomplish a goal???? yeah ok sure that makes sense), and like................that's it

There's nothing else to their relationship. There really is no relationship to speak of, and the fact that the shippers have said 'bees are definitely gonna kiss this episode for sure! they're super canon and are gonna show it!' every single episode for two volumes straight now is a testament to that. And you could maybe say 'you don't need a kiss to show a ship is canon' except that RWBY has said that you do. The only canon romantic relationships between main cast members have been confirmed via liplock--Arkos in v3, and Renora (whom a lot of people assumed had already been together-together by like v5) in v7. Other couples/feelings among the side characters have at the least been confirmed via dialogue--the Cotta-Arcs, Ilia's one-sided feelings for Blake, etc. In absence of a verbal declaration, the only way we have to know that two characters are a couple is kissing.

And if that's not the case, and we come to find out later on that Blake and Yang have been in a relationship this whole time, then that means that the one singular same-gender relationship among the mains is being treated differently (no kiss and no verbal declaration of a relationship) than the different-gender relationships, and that is, itself, a whole other level of Not Great.

Ultimately, though, I think what bothers me most about Bumbleby is that so much of it relies on like... color-coding, vague allusions, hand-holding and forehead-touching (all of which we already had two volumes ago) and not much else, which makes it seem like the show is just stringing along the audience, knowing they will keep tuning in waiting for the couple's inevitable canonization without having to actually commit any resources to developing or exploring their relationship. People keep calling bumbleby a 'slowburn', but the thing is that nothing is burning anymore. They are in the exact same place in v8 that they were at the end of v6. That's not a slowburn anymore, that's a holding pattern, and literally nothing has changed! Let them just fucking kiss for the love of all that is holy and put the rest of us out of our misery, please.

send me a ship and get my (brutally) honest opinion!

[nexyra]

James Ironwood, for character ask? 👀

Aaaa thank you so much for the ask ♡ More rambling incoming !! Sorry for the wait btw, I've been both pretty busy and tired ;;

If you hate James Ironwood and don't wanna hear one good thing about him tap out now please ღ

My fav ship(s) for the character

I am not a super big shipper when it comes to James, but there are still some I like more than others soo here goes :

I think Ironwitch is a pretty good one. It's not necessarily a ship I'd search content for but I think these two would work well together ! Glynda is stern and honest and a no-nonsense kind of woman. She has the strenght to stand up to James when he slips or gets too stubborn when faced with the high stakes. At the same time, we've been shown that she cares for him and she knows he's only trying to do what's best for people. She has faith in him but also the ability to stand at his side as an equal. She seems to be the more steadfast of Ozpin's circle : loyal, you know you can trust her, and she will not crumble. This is the kind of personnality that I think James both admire and feel safe with. And the other way around, I think James is a good match for Glynda too. On a day to day basis, he's serious enough to not annoy here, but he's also a softie in some aspects and that's a nice combination to smooth out Glynda's edges.

Ironqrow is a completely different dynamic. The "we're annoying each other" dynamic is not one I'm particularly interested in usually xD But these two certainly had strong & interesting moments so it's a pretty valid ship !! Despite how they might butt heads because of the difference in their upbringing they (prior to V8) clearly trusted each other with their life. Even if Qrow jokes about shooting himself if he had to be one of James' man, when everything goes to shit there is no doubt in his mind that James wasn't responsible. Similarly, while James talks of shooting Qrow for his misbehaviour, when push comes to shove and we meet a tired Ironwood, run ragged by the pressure he's under... the only thing he does is hug him and reiterates how glad he is to see him. So again, they clearly have a lot of faith and trust in the other, and that's solid ground for a relationship.

My least favorite ship(s) for the character

Same spiel as always, shipping kids and adults is a big no from me; so any ships between Ironwood and RWBYJNOR can qualify here. That said, among the less uncomfortable ones, here are those I don't really like

This one is again because I love their relationship but platonically only, I'm talking of Winter Soldier. The reading I like best is not that Ironwood is Winter's Jacques 2.0, nor that he groomed her; but that he was an important father figure in her life. Protective and caring, who tried to help her escape with what he knew. I don't see James recruiting Winter as a way to gain a strong ally. But rather that Winter wanted to detach herself from her family name, and make something worthwhile of herself all on her own. And that the military is what Ironwood knows and understand, so naturally it's a career he'd see as a good path. Just like Winter then proposed it to Weiss. I like to think they care about each other a LOT and they're their own tight family in between the lines, even if professionalism might throw a wrench into it. For short I love them together but not romantically please =)

I don't know if there's a ship name for this, but Salem x James Ironwood would be a big nope from me too... In general, let's just assume I ship Salem with nobody because abuse.

My fav & least fav platonic relationship(s) for the character

Fav platonic relationship would be (have been because we dont talk about V8?) with Winter. Fooor the reasons I've explained above I suppose x) I (again) love the trust they had in one another and the quiet support.

There was also his relationship with Oscar that I really liked during V7, although it has been soured a bit by the (valid) reading from some people that Ironwood sought out Ozpin a lot through Oscar, and given his identity issues it is not ground for a greatly healthy relationship. Their interactions were still very intersting though ♡ I consider Oscar to be the kid who went at trying to appease James' fear or make him reconsider his decisions the best way. There was true understanding and hope for a working relationship here. I do feel that Oscar put in more work than James however (emotionally) and I wish there had been pay-back instead of a gunshot.

For my least fav relationship ? Probably Robyn or Watts ? Robyn was always very antagonistic toward Ironwood since their priorities are so different. And I overall just don't really like her after V7 so there are very few relationships with her I'm interested in (the exception is her ship with Fiona I think it's cute). Meanwhile, Watts is just a petty asshole hell bent on ruining Ironwood because he didn't pick his project. I'm not very interested in hate relationships, and since theirs wasn't deeply explored anyway, it's even more the case here. Their fight was great though, one of my favorite RWBY fights !

My favorite thing about the character

Well this was completely proven wrong by V8 buuut as of V7 I liked that he was a deconstruction of the military general (dictator) trope. Sooo you can guess how i feel about V8 X) In general among RWBY, several of my fav are fav BECAUSE they look like one trope but also have key differences that from the get go make the character stray away from said trope. For example I'm not a fan of the princess tsundere archetype at all, but I loooved Weiss in V1 BECAUSE she was extra-willing to listen and change her mind, and you could very easily tell that it was her upbringing speaking more than herself in most occasions.

Similarly, I wasn't a big fan of Ironwood before V7. I didn't hate him you know and he wasn't lower than most characters in my Tier list but I also didn't particularly care. But you know what ? I've aaaalways had a really soft spot for the "angsty angry traumatized teen". And RWBY made the mistake of extending that soft spot to "tired adults trying their best" (only to repeatedly beat them up/make them villains after making me care about them but what can you do uh)

Soo in general, I loved that Ironwood was trying so hard. I loved that he was tired and in over his head but learning and listening and trying to do good and be better despite his fears. I liked that he told his entourage about Salem and was loyal. I liked that he cared about helping the people above his own image and the way people perceived him. I liked that you could tell this was a terrible situation all around, and his decisions WERE questionnable but we could SEE that he meant WELL and was genuinely trying so hard despite how scared and tired he was.

My biggest criticism for the character

Well this won't be a surprise but in general I just wished he had stayed a morally grey character we were allowed to feel for instead of a cartoon black villain. I didn't need James to be THE Hero or anything like this despite some accusations levelled at those who like him. Him becoming one of RWBY's antagonist is honestly fine by me ! It is interesting. But I'd have preferred they kept him ambiguous and trying in his own way. (And smart because V8 Ironwood was dumb af)

I can be a tad overprotective of his character since he's just... so despised, so I think that I have inadvertently distanced myself from any of his flaws... somehow like "people are already yelling all of them so I don't need to add to this shit show" you know ? skjfkd But I KNOW he has them and it would still have been good to develop his flaws, just... not like that

But yea I'd have liked it if V8 Ironwood DID diverge from RWBYJNORQ and became an antagonist but not an iredeemable villain. LIKE,, we redeemed Hazel and Emerald and IRONWOOD is where the writers draw the line by saying "nope this one is rotten" ?? What ?

When was their writing at the peak according to me (ex : best season)

V7 definitely ! Ironwood carried V7 so hard haha. His character was fleshed out and given nuance and made to struggle and evolve and I loved him in that volume.

A song I think fits them & why

Hunger • Monsters & Men Human • Rag'n'Bone Man Way down we go • Kaleo Beekeeper • Keaton Henson Thistle and weeds • Mumford and Sons Castle of Glass • Linkin Park It's all so incredibly loud • Glass Animals

A headcanon to make up about them

His metal parts impact his metabolism so Ironwood is terrible at holding his alcohool and very little manages to knock him out. He's a workaholic. His low tolerence for alcohool is a great tool whn friends need to put him to sleep.

His joints crack and hurt in the cold, his metal parts as well and they are an hassle in the sand. James like to keep his room temperature warmer than the average atlasian because of this, otherwise he has to spend 30 min every morning simply unwiding muscles to move around efficiently.

He's not a good singer but has a nice low voice for telling stories. If he had kids, he'd probably avoid lullabies but compensate with bedtimes stories.

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

As always, I'm kind of reflecting along the way as I write this, and one thing I'm thinking right now is... Doesn't it take away from the atlas arc message ITSELF to just pile up so many "standard bad guy" stuff on Ironwood ? Like, I wanna ask... why do we hate him ? Is he an antagonist because he lets fear get the best of him ? Because he's a classist who doesn't care about Mantle like some fans argue ? Because he's too stubborn and wants to be THE hero ? Because he doesn't listen to others ? Because he abandonned Mantle ? Because he kills peopke left and right ? Because he wanted to bomb a city ? I think you might see where I'm going with this : his status as villain is kind of messy. V8 just kept piling-up flaws and villainous actions onto Ironwood with no concern for whether this was a lenght he would go to (using the certainty that he would go to any lenghts to enact his plans), ,or whether these were one of the initial flaws/failings that led to his "fall" as an antagonist. What lesson is Ironwood supposed to learn ? Personally the very first time I yelled at my screen "No ! Why would the writers choose that ?" is when Ironwood shot Oscar. When answering criticism against medias, many people tend to look at it only through the lense of "well it makes sense in universe" or as if there were no other ways for the story to devolve. But at the end of the way, everything in a story is a choice from the writer even if it is influenced by the characters' personnalities. If I took the scene where Ironwood shoots Oscar, someone might tell me "he's crippled by his PTSD, he COULD do this." Maybe, that's a reading I can somewhat understand at least. But the writers have the power to NOT put his character in such a position. When I saw the wreck that was V7 finale, I ranted to my bestfriend about it and at no point did i say "why did Ironwood do that", I said "why did the writers make him shoot Oscar, the only point narratively would be to make irredeemable" Aaaand that's what they went for and I obviously didn't care for it. So if I had to rewrite it; I would have kept Ironwood's "mistakes" more focused. If he's wrong because he wants to abandon Mantle, because he's (understandably) scared and doesn't want to take risks; then stay focused on that. It's what makes RWBY leave, and out of all his V8 actions that's really the only thing RWBY needed to tell the whole world he wasn't an ally anymore apparently. - Don't make him shoot Oscar point blank, instead Oscar can simply fall because he flinches away from Ironwood's outburst; and a distraught/guilty Ironwood can decide that he doesn't have the time or capacity to help because of the tense situation. (Killing and not saving someone don't hold the same moral weight at all). - Don't make him kill people left and right or bomb cities, maintain the flaw of Ironwood struggling with his PTSD and his fear and not being able to take risks. - Don't paint him as a black villain, and eventually write V8 in such a way that RWBYJNORQ show taking risks might lead to a bigger victory, which was the volume's theme anyway. For example, following Oscar's destruction of the whale, a growth can occur that would bring back together the two anti-Salem factions : Oscar's risk put Atlas out of harm's way, which leads to Ironwood seeing that maybe there WAS a way to save Mantle as well as Atlas despite Salem's presence and he might have jumped the gun too quickly because of his fears. I'm not sure, I haven't thought about this extensively honestly but I hope you see what I mean. I think it would have been more focused & more in-character to focus Ironwood's failings on his fear; and the fact that he cares for the people and the greater good sometimes at the cost of the individuals. The idea that by sacrificing individuals too much you forget the people you're fighting for in the first place, could have been interesting to dig deeper into. Keep to the idea that Ironwood is somewhat disensitized to the individuals suffering for the sake of the greater good, instead of making him just

callous & uncaring.

My guess for their MBTI/Enneagram

I think pre-V8 Ironwood was an unconventionnal ENFJ. Aka, the type of character no one would type ENFJ because they go by stereotypes and Fe stereotypes are just enneagram 2 everywhere (aka nice, kind, helpful) whereas Ironwood has an enneagram tritype very common among xxTJs so that's what he looks/behaves like, but the way he thinks (what's best for the people, ethical values derived from an Atlasian upbringing) align more with Fe cognitively I think I'm going with ENFJ 6w5 1w2 3w4

Starting from V8 though, Ironwood veered clearly into ENTJ territory (types aren't supposed to change but I wouldn't say RWBY is the most consistent media when it comes to characters' personnalities)

One aspect that I think would be nice to delve deeper into ?

I understand why they didn't care to, but it'd have been interesting to get a few backstory hints for Ironwood. How did he lose half his body ? How did Oz recruit him ? Or some pieces about his upbringing ?

[dragonturtle2]

Charting Penny's course, on the eve of the V8 finale.

I just realized that one of the lengthiest essays I ever posted online was never copied or cross posted over here to Tumblr.  A huge mistake on my part.  For one, as a big fan of transhumanism, I got a kind of enjoyment mapping out the distinctions Penny Poledina’s series-wide arc, even with the flaws.  Two, I’m actually kind of proud of the predictions I made at the end.  Not because I was correct about one of them; I remarked how I’d LIKE Rooster Teeth to do something, not that they’d actually take the shot.  But some of the stuff I thought of was fun, and I do feel a bit of validation for having my thoughts line up with the actual writers; especially in lieu of how heated other people’s reactions were to something sorrowful and unexpected.  

Tonight I had been responding to a critique I'd found earlier on Tumblr. They had remarked that Penny's conflict in Volumes 2, 7 and 8 were just recycling the question of whether Penny was a real girl. That doing so was just boring as heck, when the question has been answered firmly with Penny becoming the Winter Maiden. I thought the question of “what makes a person a person, and not just a simulated pattern of behaviors with the instinct to survive?” was broad enough to get a few arcs’ worth of visitation.  But I thought just responding with that one lengthy sentence could come off as belittling sarcasm. So tried to offer up an my actual interpretation and clear opinion. I got this monstrosity.

Volume 1 has Penny reaching out to make friends, V2 is finally admitting her robot nature to someone and vocalizing her fears about being a real girl.  Volume 3 dangles the upcoming conflict of her wanting to exercise independent action, step away from the national military organization that bankrolled and housed her, and go to Beacon with her friends.  But that got cut short.

Volume 7 picks up the thread of Penny’s independent actions.  Not just with the ability to disagree with or full-on disobey orders, but her own value system and initiative.  Not only is she asking Winter about how to make decisions in life, she is also silently (and not-so-silently) judging whether Winter is morally right, or even truly happy with her own choices.  When she takes Freya’s hand, she asks something that no one has probably said to Freya in awhile: “Are you OK?”

Volume 8 is focused on the things being taken from her.  Her previous family-unit-facsimile of James, Winter and the Ace Ops have labeled her a traitor and are now hunting her.  Being targeted as the Maiden makes her distance herself from her friends, so they aren’t further harmed .  In doing that, she also leaves behind her previous dedication, protecting Mantle, to launch Amity Tower and assist in the bigger picture of warning the entire planet.  Then in the pursuit of that goal she damages herself, pushes her body to it’s limit, and says goodbye to her father.  

Volume 8 might seem to backpedal, and spend much of the season emphasizing how inhuman Penny is. That’s the point.  After Freya essentially canonizes Penny as human, with her ‘blessing,’ Penny’s new identity (to herself and the audience) is arrested in the most traumatic ways possible.  Her body is peeled back and cut open.  Her schematics are passed around and assessed by characters and factions more than ever.  The hacking is the Atlas military complex literally claiming ownership over her, exploiting the body and code they created alongside Pietro.  (In contrast with the earlier consensual control and teamwork with Pietro, which even then she hardly enjoyed).  How much pain can you inflict on a person until they devolve, or abandon rational thought?  Little wonder Penny ends up begging the team to end her own life.  She’s now taken Winter’s role from Volume 7, her self-esteem having sunken even lower.  “My life doesn’t matter!“

When that ghastly moment was (temporarily) resolved with a quick revelation and Jaune’s Semblance, it was a moment of mixed feelings for me in an episode I otherwise loved.  But I really came around to it afterword.  They have to head to Vault for a permanent fix pretty much immediately, so it doesn’t feel like the writers used Jaune to kick the can down the road until they felt like tackling it.  A very direct benefit is that by pausing Penny’s affliction, Penny gains the ability to actually have a conversation with people, to have scenes beyond just desperately wrestling her.   It also spared us the repeated dialogue of “I must go to the Vault.  I don’t want to!  I must - I don’t! - I MUST- I DON’T!”  Seriously, that routine was wearing thin.  

Whether any fans predicted Jaune’s Semblance being able to help or not, I’m pleased when characters are able to quickly conceive applications of in-universe fictional powers.  This is such a refreshing improvement over how CRWBY previously couldn’t bring Ruby to even ASK about the Silver Eyes that put her in a coma.  

There were missteps along the way.  Ruby really should have reacted more to her friend coming back to life; RT leaning on the Fourth Wall doesn’t fully remove the sting. ("It seems we will have to wait!”)  We also never see any of our protagonists outside of Ruby even react to the revelation of a robotic life form.  When they meet Penny again at V7′s start, apparently ALL of them, even Oscar, were so acquainted with Penny’s story that none of them had any questions for her the entire Volume.  There was no sense of betrayed trust, or trauma from watching one friend be ripped apart by another.  These are disappointments, but not deal breakers.  Now, I want to talk about how post-Ambrosius Penny may fit in with the rest of the story.  Maybe it’s stupid of me to try to get this out by 4 in the morning the day the finale drops, but I’m on a role, and I want to get my ideas out in the open before they’re tainted by hindsight.  Otherwise I won’t feel like even finishing this.  

I’m not going to launch into a tangent with the metaphysical mechanics on whether Penny’s new body would have ‘logically’ been conjured or not.  (For the record I think it works).  I just want to talk about the message the show is conveying, and what they could do with it.  My base assumption is that Cinder is going to get the Winter Maiden power.  It would be great way to coincide with her (GASP) actual character development this volume.  But more importantly, if she doesn’t succeed in her goal, and get an upgrade to compete with our leveled-up protagonists, I can’t see how she can be an interesting or threatening villain going forward.  A few ways this can end for Penny:

Pietro could give up the last bit of his life to bring her back.  He’d probably need to get assistance from Abrosius, since he’s lacking in equipment; he’s a brilliant scientist, so explaining it certainly wouldn’t be an obstacle.  Maybe Penny would be back to being a synthetic, maybe she remains organic.  Either way, it’s a compromise with having a functional villain, while keeping around a fandom darling.  Personally, I think RT needs to evoke the spirit of Volume 3, and make people cry.

Actually killing Penny would be bold and stand-out.  By taking away Penny’s function of a core that can be salvaged (as explained at the start of Volume 7), and having her body get incinerated just like Pyrrha, RT can fully signal “This character is dead, and can’t be resurrected.”  The heart break would be brilliant, with Penny getting to know the joys of an organic body just to be immediately ripped away from life.  This would beautifully parallel with General Ironwood.  James clamped down on human emotion because he thought it would give him the strength to stand against the darkness.  Penny’s friends made her MORE human in a loving act of rescue, but now have to watch as she dies like any other human.  Both characters would be cautionary tales regarding the Atlas Arc’s question of Trust.  To leave yourself open.

Alrighty, now that I’ve gotten to feel like an intellectual by making some proclamations of doom, I want to throw out a tinfoil hat theory that actually combines the two previous versions.  What’s fascinated me for years, and the show hasn’t re-visited, is the nature of Cinder’s parasite.  Can Cinder talk to it?  Will it begin gaining sentience?  What’s relevant to Penny is what exactly this thing DOES.  When it comes to it’s soul-power-absorbing function, we’ve never actually seen it’s full extent.  The process with Amber was interrupted, with half the power just zipping over to Cinder after Amber expired.  With Raven and Penny’s power, Cinder’s arm only got a little taste of them both, since both of their captures were unsuccessful.  What if Cinder’s parasite can absorb more than raw power?  Pinnochio is eventually swallowed by a monstrous beast.  We were all sure it would be The Whale.  But what if it’s Cinder?

I’ll be watching the finale in about 5 hours.  The idea that I could be correct about something that takes everyone else off guard (Penny’s death) has an electric feeling, and I totally understand why people can get hung up on the stories they compose in their head.  But I don’t want to start thinking any of MY ideas HAVE to come true for me to get joy from whatever happens to Penny or Volume 8.  Regardless, reviewing character arcs that preceded wherever we are in the present is always worthwhile.  

[dragynkeep]

Top 5 worst male characters and Top 5 worst female characters in RWBY, and brief reasons why?

This is the type of ask that’s gonna get me shit but I have known no hubris in my life so let’s go. These won’t be in the case of being intentionally bad, I’m doing more on personal taste and the quality of their writing. 

Worst Male Characters

1. Adam Taurus

Obviously, Adam is at the top of the list for me. His storyline was butchered from a story of racism and vigilantism to a story about domestic abuse, his brand was cheap shock value with very little substance, he stopped being threatening after the Fall of Beacon and instead became a whiny little bitch, and his voice acting is just bad.

He sounds like he’s gonna call me a slur on Xbox Live.

2. Jacques Schnee

Yeah, the abusive rich man who runs slave mines is bad, but that’s not the main reason he’s on this list. I could accept a character like that if the writers made him good, but they didn’t. Jacques wasn’t intimidating at all. He wasn’t smart at all. The man who conned his father in law and wife into giving him complete control of the most powerful company in Remnant is not the same man we get in the actual show.

He’s whiny, cowardly, and a useless villain who’s entire downfall was treated like a poorly made joke, and now only serves as comic relief in the Jailbirds scenes in V8. 

3. Hazel Rainart

Same issues with Jacques and Adam, but less egregious. Hazel was actually a pretty interesting villain in his earlier volumes, and even after his blunder at the Batlle of Haven, he went back to being kinda good in V6 with his protective behaviour towards Emerald. And then V8 came around and I grew to hate how stupid his reasons for joining Salem were, and the fact that he just beat the shit outta Oscar while whining about his dead sister.

Bro, Idgaf about someone I never met while you’re maiming a 15 year old boy because you wanna be mad at the guy in his head. 

4. Qrow Branwen

It’s the same case with Hazel. I actually liked Qrow up until V6, and even then I cared enough to try and see where his alcoholism arc went since it’s a serious issue that affects not only my family, but my people. I started to dislike him after he punched Oscar and kept being horrible to the boy, all without apologising in the end, but v7 and 8 made me really hate him. 

I don’t care for his edgy attitude, and I don’t care that he got his self-help book boyfriend murdered by a crackhead. Add onto CRWBY butchering a serious topic about alcoholism with him, and he’s just sank right down writing sense.

5. Ghira Belladonna

I never liked Ghira. I think the others are higher than him on this list just on the virtue that I liked them, or the idea of them, and the writing just pulled them down so much.

But I never had that problem with Ghira, so the disappointment doesn’t sting as bad. He’s just an unnecessary character that cheapens Blake since she’s now a princess, a useless father who somehow couldn’t get his own 12 year old daughter back even thought she didn’t even bother to change her own name, and then featured live on a tournament channel that the whole world saw. He was a useless leader, his ideology was stupid and almost got him and others killed, and he was so ungrateful towards Adam for saving his stupid furry ass that I completely sided with Sienna calling him the fuck out.

At least he’s not on my screen anymore, but I know that won’t last forever and I gotta look at his dumb face again.

Worst Female Characters

1. Cinder Fall

God, she is the worst villain and character in this show. She’s so flat, her stans are annoying as fuck, her voice leaves a lot to be desired, and the fact that there’s hardly anything to her for seven years makes it even worse now that we finally got a backstory for her, and it’s one we ALL GUESSED.

Who would’ve thought she’d be a Cinderella who killed her abusive family, I am shooketh. 

2. Blake Belladonna

Blake was my favourite girl in RWBY and I’m mad at CRWBY for what they’ve done to her.

It says a lot that a girl still affected by the abuse and trauma of fighting in a terrorist organisation has more personality and backbone than one who’s supposedly broken free of her traumatic past and moved forward. Blake now is spineless, flat, boring ass cardboard cutout of what she once was, who would rather let her human friends defend her from racists than call them out herself like she did to Weiss in Volume 1. 

She’s spoiled, priviledged, annoying, and Arryn has such a flat voice on top of being a gross ass person that I get annoyed every time she speaks. She’s no longer an oppressed minority fighting for the rights of her people, she’s a princess who would rather go to a club with people she didn’t even like than a rally against the man who caused so much suffering to her people. Even her talk with Nora about not letting yourself be taken over by who you’re with romantically is hypocritical, since that’s exactly what’s happened to her since she’s been paired up with Yang.

She couldn’t even have the spotlight of fighting her own VILLAIN, Yang was the one who broke Adam’s Aura and had the big triumphant moment of throwing his sword in the river while she was too busy fucking rock climbing. 

3. Yang Xiao Long

Yang was my second favourite girl in RWBY and I’m mad at CRWBY for what they’ve done to her.

Yang wasn’t super developed in the earlier volumes. Honestly, I didn’t think much until her talk with Blake about Raven in Burning The Candle, and her dismemberment leading her towards depression and PTSD. Come Volume 4, I was alright with the portrayal of her recovery. I don’t think they gave enough time between her trying on the arm and then being good enough to leave, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn’t bad. 

What was bad was everything after. Yang became a hypocritical, moody bitch who would drag everyone for their bad decisions while ignoring her own. Her PTSD, something VERY personal to me, was ruined and up and vanished by V7 since she’s now killed the man who gave her the disorder so obviously it’s cured! She is always on Ozpin’s case for the birds shit, and then keeping secrets, but then goes and does the exact same thing while giving little resistance to others doing it because they’re family.

Even her argument with Ruby in V8 was tame as fuck. She blamed Ruby for things not going well while ignoring that it was her own dumbass decisions that contributed to it. Ruby didn’t tell Yang to go and spill the beans to Robyn, her stupid cat girlfriend did that, and Yang went along with it while being unrepentant later on when Ironwood was RIGHTFULLY pissed about it.

Add onto v8 then having her worry about how BLAKE thought about her, rather than RUBY, and I just hate her. This ain’t Yang, I want Yang back. 

4. Nora Valkyrie

Nora is just a flat character. Her voice is annoyingly high pitched and screechy, her jokes aren’t funny, and all the things I loved that she got in v4 was later dropped entirely. She had such good moments in V4 that actually made me appreciate her more, and then she just became another hypocrite in v7 who wanted to yell at Ironwood while refusing to look at her own flaws.

On top of her kissing Ren when he was clearly not in the mood to talk, and it made me hate her. It’s not a cute ship moment, it’s a creepy disrespect of someone’s personal space. If it was the other way around, no one would think it was cute.

5. Robyn Hill

Similar to Ghira’s reasons, I never liked Robyn, so she’s low down on the list compared to the others since at one point I loved the others (Minus Cinder but she’s just so bad that she’s #1).

Robyn isn’t a good freedom fighter. She runs in without thinking about things and then proceeds to deny any responsibility of her actions. She won’t accept that maybe her agreeing with the same serial killer that nearly killed her and Fiona, on top of succeeding in murdering some of her supporters and Forest, and starting a fight with Clover in an enclosed space wasn’t a good idea. 

Add onto the fact that she’s really just incompetent. She steals supplies from Ironwood to fix the wall and help Mantle, but after time we see that nothing has been done. 

Christina Vee is wasted on her honestly.

[kitkatopinions]

Do you think that overall the male character s in RWBY are more compelling than the female characters? Something I’ve noticed about the RWDE bloggers I keep up with is that their favorites all seem to be Ironwood, Oz, Oscar, Sun, and Mercury. Don’t get me me wrong, I’m definitely NOT accusing the RWDE community of hating on female characters and being sexist. It’s totally normal for people to prefer male characters when the creators have made a bunch of interesting, multi-dimensional male characters and neglected female characters (or in RWBY’s case, letting the formerly multi-dimensional and interesting female characters fall into unlikability). Just curious if you think this is the reason for the male fave prevalence with RWDEs or if it’s just coincidence

I think that the writing is definitely a big part of it. Back in the first three seasons of RWBY, the main four characters were put in a lot more focus in the narrative, and the writing was more even. Most of the RWDE posters I've seen, talk about having loved many characters back then, including me. My favorites for a long time were Yang, Blake, Sun, Qrow, and Nora. And there were other characters I liked and enjoyed like Ren, Ozpin, Ironwood, Jaune, Mercury, Emerald, Ruby, Weiss, Whitley... But they tended to take a backseat while I gushed about how much I loved all the Yang scenes in volume five and how Blake got a bad rep and about how fun and cute I thought Nora was and how freaking awesome and fun Qrow was. But the longer the show went on, the less Team RWBY were actually treated like the main protagonists, while the writing focused on other characters and paid more attention to them.

Another interesting thing to note is that many of the characters that are commonly loved and defended among RWDE posters are characters that either the show or the fandom treats badly.

Oscar gets beat, kidnapped, and attacked more than arguably any of the other mains, while he's also one of the only characters that didn't fully volunteer and was more or less trapped into getting involved. And on top of that, he's an active hero who tries hard, and matters to the villains while having an important role.

Oz not only got mistreated and traumatized by the mains without apology or recognition of everything he went through in the show, he also gets crapped on over and over by the fandom at large, who refuse to recognize him as an abuse victim and try to paint him as a horrible, manipulative, wicked person - all while making tons of excuses for Ruby doing basically the same stuff. And on top of that, he's active and tries hard and matters to the villains while having an important role.

Mercury gets painted as irredeemable scum by a lot of the fandom, who all were ready to forget him and ignore his own past as an abuse victim the second Emerald was no longer around him, and are already making posts about how people only like Mercury or want him to be redeemed because he's a man and writing him off as hopeless. And the show itself have been shafting him and not portraying him very sympathetically, despite the fact that his backstory is arguably more sympathetic than Emerald's (not trying to compare trauma here, just trying to talk about one reason why people are frustrated.) And on top of that, he hasn't actually been featured much since season five, and therefore hasn't yet had his character ruined or complicated.

Likewise, Sun is often treated as a nuisance and a pushy jerk that Blake never even liked by the fandom, who only got in the way. People over-exaggerate a lot of his flaws and downplay his good traits and his role with Blake. And in the Before the Dawn book, the Sun hate gets literally hard to read and the writer is so obviously biased against him that it's a little comical. On top of that, like Mercury, he hasn't actually been featured much since season five, and therefore hasn't had his character ruined or complicated.

Other RWDE favorites like Whitley and Ren are also mistreated or misrepresented by the fandom at large, and favored by RWDE posters. Because honestly, once you start defending someone and trying to get into their head, you're more likely to like and get attached to that character.

I personally always have a problem when I talk about my favorites in RWBY, because if I talk about my favorite characters to write for that I still love the concept of, it'd still be Yang, Qrow, Blake, Nora, and Roman, with James added because after V7 I did start loving his character a lot more. But although I still talk at length about how the characters have been mishandled, when I'm actually discussing how RWBY characters are in canon, my options become limited as far as picking favorites. XD Sun and Mercury haven't been really damaged yet by the show's bad writing, Whitley, May, and Jaune managed to come out of the last couple of seasons mostly looking good, Yang, Ren, and Penny are at least better than most of the others... And Oz is still really good, while Oscar is... On thin ice, but mostly fine I guess.

I can't even credit Ironwood as a canon favorite, because he was horribly done (and Winter was better than most that season too, but so tied up in pushing Ironwood as a villain that I personally can't get past it right now.)

But yeah, I'd say one of the reasons that RWDE posters tend to favor a lot of male characters is because they're simultaneously treated as more important to the plot and given more focus than the woman characters, while at the same time, they're often villainized and treated unfairly by the narrative or the fandom or both. It's definitely not because the RWDE fandom just doesn't like women, it's because the RWBY writers actively struggle to present their women characters as active and important to the plot, while at the same time, they try to say they're great and don't acknowledge their flaws. There's a lot of internalized sexism in RWBY, I think. They made iincredibly flawed woman characters who are constantly overtaken, outmatched, and treated as less important than the men around them. And yet they have them glorified as flawless and amazing badasses with sass. While at the same time, they rely on them being sympathetic by being cute, vulnerable, wide eyed, and teary to get people to squee and aww over how upset the terrible circumstances have made them and how no one can expect them to keep going like this. It makes them feel lackluster and not convincing or compelling. It's like watching Tauriel in the Hobbit movies. Disappointing, a little insulting.

[boy-above]

I didn't know you've seen rwby! your opinions are very interesting (in a good way!) and if you felt comfortable doing this, I would love to hear you talk more in depth about them. I would love to hear you elaborate on some of your more "controversial" opinions

i don't mind at all! i rly would like to talk abt rwby with people more, but i don't want to put myself out there in the fandom because that's a nightmare warzone AHDHDHD

so, i think jaune's highish place on the list would be controversial, and i think an important thing to note with him is that it's based on his Current standing in the series. it's very important to make it clear that i fucking hated jaune for the majority of the series, he was annoying and whiney and full of manpain and took away screentime from the actual main characters. i didn't like him from vols 1-6 lmao. but since the atlas arc started i do like him now. his arc is over and he's actually likable which is something i didn't think they would be able to do.

yang and blake's places on the list would get me death threats had i tagged that list, i'm sure lmao. i just cannot stand yang. everything that made her fun and likable in the first three volumes was taken away, and i understand she went through a traumatic event but she didn't come out of her arc of healing or whatever for the better. vol5 to present yang is insufferable to me. she's mean, judgemental, and a giant hypocrite. (yelling at ozpin for hiding the truth while actively hiding the fact that her mom is the spring maiden anyone???) she's just a ball of negativity now, she does not have a single likable quality to me.

blake got a similar treatment, vol4 and beyond blake became really unlikable as well. the entire menajerie arc was just awful and hard to sit through. it's part of the reason i hated volume 4 so much (and vol5 but that's not an unpopular opinion) she came off as whiney to me in vol4 rather than an eager activist like she was in the previous volumes, the show has never been good at actually putting faunus discrimination Actuallt on display besides no faunus signs and hamfisted remarks from strangers (that they always have weiss respond to rather than blake???) so blake's anger with the whole situation almost doesn't feel justified. this is a problem of the writing of course but it does not do her character any favors. she's higher on the list than yang though because blake has gotten a lot better in the atlas arc, especially her conversation with nora and her recent conversation with ruby about how she's always looked up to her. she might get higher on the list as the atlas arc goes on, who knows. i'm definitely more open to liking her than yang: at this point i think there's no saving yang for me.

nora and ren have been dropping on the list for me ever since their relationship problems started this arc, although even before that they still weren't like top tier for me or anything. ren's angst just isn't hitting it right for me, although maybe i do regret not putting nora a tier higher, her plight about not knowing who she is without ren is very good, so yeah i might have some regrets about that.

this isn't as much as an unpopular opinion as the others, but i think cinder is such a bad villain. she's always been pretty one dimensional, Yes, even after we got her backstory, which by the way was trying Way too hard for me to be tragic, it was honestly kind of hard to take seriously because of how it lacked Any kind of subtlety, it really was trying so hard to make her sympathetic to the point that it was essentially trying to force those feelings into you. but anyway, vol3 cinder was the best cinder's ever been, she was actually intimidating, killed ozpin and pyrrha, and Succeeded At Her Task. she has been nothing but a series of failures since then and her power has been scaled back to significantly, they've made her pathetic now. she Might be looking towards a brighter future soonish though, i hope her character is going towards something more interesting now instead of failing again lol.

while i don't like ironwood as a person, i do Love how he was written. i think he's a very well written antagonist, i don't frequent the tags very much so idk if that's a popular opinion or not. jacques does his job as an antag, i don't think he's as well written as ironwood but he does his job. hazel and adam however are both bad as people And horribly written villains imo. i could never put myself in blake and yang's shoes of how traumatized and scared they were of adam because he was never once truly intimidating to me. he was just a loser. and while yes, abusers are pathetic and he was eventually outed as pathetic and that's the point, they were still so scared of him even after he ran away like a coward and i just could not relate because he just wasn't a scary villain, he was a boring loser who never actually lived up to the fear the other characters had of him.

and hazel is just such a baffling character. his whole motivation is that he hates seeing children being trained to be sent off to war, especially a war that is impossible to win, but then he relentlessly beats the shit out of a child with no regret. calling ozpin a coward because he's "letting the boy suffer" instead of taking over the body, even though he's the one beating a child in the first place, it's not ozpin's fault oscar is getting beaten buddy, it's your fists!! and it's not like even if ozpin Was in control of the body the whole time that oscar wouldn't be affected anyway, it's his body, he can still feel all the pain. what a fucking idiot.

ANYWAY UH this got really long sorry. those are some of my roobles opinions lol

[daggerpawstudios]

An small analysis of Ruby Rose

This isn't really an lengthy analysis but just a small snippet about a part of Ruby Rose's character that often times gets overlooked and even dismissed.

In the official RWBY Companion Book.

Miles describes Ruby as innocence because she's the youngest one but she's exactly where She wants to be.

"Ruby wants to help people, but being naive means she doesn't always understand that helping someone might mean not helping someone else. "

This is a fitting description of Ruby especially during the first three volumes.

Ruby wants to stop Roman but she doesn't understand that Roman is apart of a bigger scheme.

She thought Roman was being a villain for some sort of gain until he confesses that he is just trying to survive.

Ruby wants to be an Huntress and attends Beacon Academy but she is unaware of the true purpose of Huntsmens and/or the Huntsmen Academies until Volume 5.

She thinks Cinder is just solely responsible for the fall of beacon. But doesn't grasp just yet. That Cinder is just a pieces apart of a bigger game. She learns everything in Volume 4 to 5.

Despite this being a basic characteristic for Ruby in the beginning. I will say that she does know lost.

The biggest lost Ruby has ever felt was her mother, Summer Rose.

In the book it states:

"Ruby's determination in making negatives into Positives."

"We all need that kind of person."

Ruby after post volume 3 is determine to make a difference and has witness what loss can do to people. She has witness Jaune's loss, Yang's Loss, and she was even around for Ren and Nora to reminisce about their loss of Kuroyuri.

In the finale of Volume 4, Ruby tells Yang in her letter that she is willing enough to try for the people who they haven't lost. This aligns with Ruby's character being a strong person that picks herself and others up.

This character trait is seen again in Volume 6 with the apathy grimm. This episode takes place right after Team RWBY learns that Salem can not be killed and Ozpin has no plan to stopping Salem. Team RWBY_Q and even Oscar are somewhat affected by the grimm and want to give up on the mission. I am not sure why the Apathy grimm did not affect Ruby as much as the others but we can infer that it is because of Ruby's determination to turn negatives into positive and her strong willpower to make it to Atlas.

The team was most likely quickly affected due to the already negative emotions that they were already feeling about whole ordeal prior to arriving on the farm.

In...Volume 5....

This is where the break in Ruby's optimistic character begins to show.

In this part of the story is where Ruby begins to make questionable and moral decisions:

Attempting to steal an Atlesian airship to get to Atlas.

Fighting Atlesian soldiers and stirring up emotions which causes a grimm attack.

Ruby lies to Ironwood about the lamp, Oz's disappearance and Salem's mortality. ( depending on your moral compass, this was the right or wrong decision.)

At the end of Volume 7, we see Team Ruby trying to escape but they cannot because Salem has arrived to kill everyone.

Even in the middle of Volume 7, Ruby confesses to Qrow that she is unsure if she is making the right the decisions.

The cracks are starting to show in this "honest soul."

In Volume 7, chapter 11 we see Ruby' shatter for a moment. This happens due to the traumatic nature of Summer's death being revealed that Salem has killed her.

I think Volume 8 will completely shatter Ruby's persona. In the companion book it describes, Ruby as one of the few characters that have barely talked about her grief at all.

She has witness Roman die.

She has witness Beacon fall in a single night.

She witness Pyrrha's death but did not talk about it with Team RNJR.

She witness her upbeat and spunky sister collapse after losing her arm.

Ruby was young with it happened but I imagine that she can remember when Tai shut down after Summer's death/ disappearance.

She has witness her Team almost fall apart AGAIN because they realized that Salem is immortal.

She has witness her uncle fall into a deep depression and started heavily drinking.

The book states Ruby is compartmentalizing and internalizing her grief. Which I believe is actually true. Based on the bullets points above.

Volume 8 will be interesting to see how Ruby and the rest of the team deal with everything that is happening. But only time will tell because this is anyone's game.

Small Edit: Listen! I just want Ruby to be okay and be happy because I love her just the way she is but I am not sure...If the writer will let. Lindsay Jones a while back said that she wanted Ruby to reach her breaking point... Plus it doesn't help with how many ppl find her so under developed and boring... Whatever Crwby decides to do V8 will be a wild ride.

[helihi]

The Good, The Bad, and the Dirty: RWBY Vol 7 Ep 4

Thank you for renewing your Punch Jacques Club Membership, I cannot confirm or deny that you’ll accomplish your goal this season, but we’re family.

Overall rating of the chapter: 7.5/10 

*Spoilers Ahead*

The Good

To start off this chapter, we learn more about the true dynamics of the Ace Ops and, more importantly, about Atlas Academy. At Beacon, teams are chosen by interactions and collaborative efforts during a recorded test. Ozpin chose teams based on trust, leadership skills, and bonds. In Atlas, teams are chosen based on effectiveness. The students are not viewed as people or individuals, they are viewed as numbers.

In the previous episodes, there were a couple of things that didn’t quite sit well with me: Harriet’s original comment to Ruby regarding her Semblance felt more mean than playful, and the fact that Marrow was everyone’s punching bag. At first, you might think that this is just playful banter between friends, like Yang and Ruby referring to Jaune as Vomit Boy from time to time, however, that’s not true. Since Harriet declares that they are not friends, you may realize that they are not “picking on Marrow”, they are actively bullying him. There’s no complements thrown his way, there are no mutual laughter or apologies, it’s just drag after drag after drag.

I have the slight feeling that Marrow might consider them his friends, and that’s why he’s letting the comments slide. We should also consider that he is the only Faunus in the team, and although I believe their comments don’t come from a source of casual racism, but rather at pointing out the fact that he’s the most childish of them all, we should pin that for now.

I get Harriet, there’s a difference between co-workers and friends. Though some times you may befriend your co-workers, playful banter and after office outings don’t translate to friendship. I say this as someone who has worked for a big company. There were coworkers I genuinely befriended, and other who I was friendly after office hours, but never hung out with outside work parties or outings.

That being said, I find it hard that you wouldn’t bond with those whose life you’ve saved before, the same who’ve saved yours. Interestingly, when Yang inquires about this and gets dismissed by Harriet, you can see the way Blake reacts in the background. Have we bonded over trauma? Is that all that this is?

Let me be clear: people can bond over trauma, but at the same time, going through a lot of things with a person can show you sides of them you never noticed before, you see them in a different light. That being said, Team RWBY’s enemies haven’t been random people: Cinder killed Pyrrha, their friend; Emerald was someone they trusted; Mercury framed Yang in front of Remnant; Adam was Blake’s abusive ex and his goal to destroy Blake and Yang was personal. During the arcs these characters have gone through, they have grown as people as they faced death, obviously they are going to bond.

This may have been pure coincidence, but it’s interesting that an anti-bee section of the FNDM posed the idea that Yang and Blake’s relationship is based on mutual trauma. This claim is ridiculous because both of them cared about each other before the Fall of Beacon. The traumatic event made their relationship take a turn, and realize some things that they didn’t notice before or made things clearer for them. (On a side note, Asami realized she had feelings for Korra when she thought the avatar was going to die at the end of book 3). Sometimes certain situations change your perspective about things and people.

I want to note that Nora’s comedic relief landed perfectly, and Jaune’s sass was on point. Once again James is presented as someone trouble seeking the best outcome through the wrong means. That being said, Tyrian and Watts plan seem to be to overthrow him and generate chaos through political manipulation, and as someone who comes from a country with high levels of corruptions and suspicious murders, this is true real. Also, don’t think James is a good poor guy trying to be his best. He’s actively choosing one portion of the kingdom over the other and dooming certain populations.

Next stop is Jacques “Scumbag” Schnee making his first appearance in the volume. TBH it was about time. Given how the opening frames him, he had to show up soon. Just like I expected the moment he started bickering with Ironwood, he turned around and will now help Watts. At first, Jacques might have had power over Ironwood, but now he doesn’t, at least until he get his seat at “The Council”, which I’m expecting him to win.

As someone with an abusive parent, Jacques’s mannerisms make sense. The shift from his violent approach to a more manipulative one are common abusive tactics of an abusive person when in public or when their victim stands up to them. My parent used to be more physically abusive when I was a child, but when I grew taller and stronger, they switched to a psychological one since I could defend myself. In this case, Jacques was super close to striking Weiss again, but stopped the moment one of her true dads stepped in (Ironwood).

Jacques using Willow to guilt trip Weiss was dirty and awful, and once again adds on to my theory that she might be the Winter maiden. Thankfully, like Ruby promised, Team RBY is right beside her.

Blake is ready to kill him, and Yang is processing how awful the man is. Ruby is utterly confused at his attitude. Following this, we find that Winter was siting for him to leave before showing up. She looks around to confirm that he’s no longer there, and Weiss points out “Winter, it’s nice for you to finally show up”. Just like I've talked about before, while Weiss got out of the abusive environment and found a real family (Team RWBY), Winter escaped Jacques by joining the military. James Ironwood is only missing one Schnee child to adopt, and we’ll get to that soon enough.

All our kids are now huntsmen! Congrats! Just like they say, the licenses feel hollow after all they’ve been through, and TBH I agree. It also shows progress for the characters, specially Yang who had the most superficial goal out of the 4 Team RWBY members. Regardless of that, it’s nice to see the goof around, take pics, and eat cake. Something I thought it was adorable is how Winter interacts with Penny: she’s so caring and nice. I love them.

We got a really good moment between Ruby and Qrow, and some background on Summer. The DC comics have helped us understand Summer a little bit ore, but this confirms that she was a brat (hell ye). Apparently, her last mission was a “Summer mission”. I really need those Team STRQ flashbacks. I bet Raven know more than we think.

I also think it’s important that Qrow pointed out how Ruby is not Oz since she doesn’t keep the secret to herself. I think certain conditions should be met to be open about Salems existence, especially considering current circumstances.

Jaune offering to protect little children is the most Jaune thing ever, never change boy.

Lastly, Watts finds an ally: the douchbag who married into the Schnee name. That small interaction with Whitley and Jacques might be a small sign of foreshadowing him having a reception arc. His father doesn’t trust him to invite his heir into the meeting, and he treats his son rudely. Whitley looks genuinely dejected.

Watts faked his death, that might be an indication why Ironwood doesn’t have a clear suspect yet. Now, he’s part of the Asshole Mustache club.

Anyways, next episode it looks like we’re going to meet Robyn. The sheep faunus and the tattooed guy next to her might have been part of her team.

The Bad

Those quick animations for cheap comedic effect have started getting kinda annoying. I wish they didn’t overuse them ass much.

The Dirty

Where’s Klein.

--

Final Rating: 7.5/10. Good, but not above expectations.

A.N.: Alost 18 mins, keeping up with the consistent episode length, congrats!

[robiness]

Raven Branwen could teach us to trust love (theory, V7CH12 spoilers)

Yeah, that’s what I said.

In my theory about Qrow’s arc, I mentioned that the worst possibility is that Raven gets to Qrow, because obviously they’re hostile to each other and have different worldviews. He’s fragile and can be easily manipulated to returning to the Branwen ways. 

It was a Qrow theory, so I focused on him. All I said about Raven was that she’s clever and brutal, and she wants her family to concede that she’s right in her philosophy. 

I’ve seen a few ideas about Raven saving everything, but I dismissed them because of my own perception of her character. But after seeing them a couple more times today, I considered a new possibility. 

(this is a theory for a RWBY7 hopeful ending, if you don’t want to get your hopes up, i’ll understand)

Yes, Raven is clever, brutal, ruthless. I still firmly believe that she’ll do anything for what she considers worth fighting for. In my perspective, these are (1) protecting her tribe, and (2) making her family realize that she was right all along.

(2) is something she constantly keeps doing even in hostile situations. She tries and tries, and is extremely frustrated at the stupidity she sees. She feels betrayed by Qrow, too, since he used to subscribe to their ways, but she still tries.

She HAS expressed outright care before. Most obvious is the Yang vs Neo fight yes, but there’s another one I forgot and now made me consider her influence as a positive thing.

This conversation between her and Yang in Volume 5.

Most of V5, Raven is rigid in her beliefs. She’s very firm with trying to convince Yang she was right when they met in the tribe, and even in Haven Academy, she left without caring if Qrow or anyone died, but she still tried to get through to her brother.

Later, when Yang confronts her after the Maiden fight, her reaction is angry. She thinks, again, that Yang is getting it all wrong like everything else. Ozpin’s war is hopeless, and Raven is the only one not brainwashed into his ideals. This was probably exacerbated by the fact she just defeated Cinder, again proving that she’s on top. 

“It's not that simple. You don't know me, you don't know what I've been through, the choices I've had to make!”  

“I've stared death in the face over and over again! And every time I've spat in that face and survived because I'm strong enough to do what others won't!” 

“Who do you think you are lecturing me?! Standing there, shaking like a scared little girl?!” 

She feels superior, and righteous in her rage. 

But then Yang calls her bluff. Raven might think she was making the right decisions, but Yang saw very clearly that she was too weak to do anything else but kill and run.

Yang proved to her that she did know Raven, because she was right in thinking that Raven would bail yet again if Yang offered to take the Relic that was a magnet for danger. 

Then, Raven makes this expression for the first time:

She is guilty, ashamed, upset, and at the time, I thought that this was only because she was putting her daughter in danger.  

But if you think about it, she’s never completely cared about her family’s lives before, not if they interfere with her highest priorities. I’ll repeat: (1) protecting her tribe, and (2) making her family realize that she was right all along.

However, Yang just proved to her that... she wasn’t right. At least, not in the image she was trying to project - a righteous, fearless woman who was making difficult decisions. 

I... I'm sorry...

I can bet that she’s never said these words before. Not to Tai, not to Qrow, not to Summer. But now she says this to her daughter who just proved to be much braver than she is. Who wrecked her worldview. 

So what? She left anyway. Why would she come now? Why would she change?

I think the fact that she left is the answer. She made a quick, automatic decision to run away, despite her claims of righteousness and bravery. But she was crying and emotional as she did.

Once she was gone, she was gone. There was no mention of her in the next two volumes, other than a teased visit to Tai, and who knows what that was about? 

Also, a LOT of people had asked why tf did Yang never tell anybody about her mom being the Spring Maiden.

I don’t really know why Yang as a character made that decision. But maybe the narrative kept her out on purpose, to make viewers forget about her.

Because, you know, I never understood why Raven Branwen was the Spring Maiden, when all other potential Maidens had some sort of connection to the seasons they were assigned (Pyrrha, then Cinder to Fall, Winter/Penny to Winter). 

Raven was, if anything, the entire opposite of the concept of spring - rebirth, life, change for the better. 

I think she’s about to prove me wrong.

Volume 7: Qrow and Clover

Clover and Qrow had a healthy developing relationship that was cut off prematurely. This broke Qrow and stopped his recovery for seemingly no reason other than to hurt him, and us. 

Clover and Qrow had quick but utterly significant scenes that seemed to be wasted just like that. Why? 

I think it still stands that this was meant to really, really hurt. 

But. 

As said in my Qrow theory, and those of many others, only Raven can get to Qrow now in his fragile state, with their connection through her Semblance.

Clover and Qrow are in the tundra, out in the snow. If Raven gets there, how could she save them? By opening another portal to Yang, who is in Atlas, a city with the greatest technology and Pietro Polendina, either or both of which should be enough to save Clover. 

Ironwood survived half of his body getting so mangled that they had to replace it with metal. If Clover was left in the tundra, then yeah he has no chance. But if Raven gets them to Atlas, where all the resources are... 

Let’s talk about this color scheme. 

I, like many others, immediately recognized this as the bi flag colours. It was insulting, demeaning, and cruel for a volume that puts heavy emphasis on “trust love”.

But what if it was put there to indicate that we still should trust despite what just happened? It would still be a traumatizing creative decision, but it would make sense to a predominantly cishet main crew. And any other staff who may have considered that it may hurt would be distracted by the (potential) utter brilliance of it.

The setting was a dark, isolated tundra when Clover died. But the sun rose.

When is a sunrise significant in that kind of setting? That’s right, spring. Hope, love. 

Qrow and Clover’s connection was wonderful, but underdeveloped. We assumed the theme Trust Love applied to them, but it was twisted cruelly, making the audience feel like it was just for shock value.

But what if it’s not their love that should be trusted right now? It is in its early stages, which is why we were so angry at the loss of potential. So maybe it’s not the focus.

What if it’s the unexpected love of Raven (spring, hope, sunrise) coming to aid her brother?

Qrow’s recovery: Raven

I’ve extensively talked about the twins’ relationship from Qrow’s perspective. It’s fractured and opposing. That’s a given.

But imagine. Imagine if at this darkest hour, Qrow’s big sister, who he’s given up on, saves him and makes things better. 

Clover was good for Qrow, but he doesn’t have to be the only one that is. Raven being open to compromise AND saving Clover? That would be such relief for my poor bird.

A real partner, and estranged sister back in his life? That will skyrocket his recovery so much that I’m literally crying right now at the thought.

Supporting Literary Parallels: 

1.  The first part of this post brings up the Aesop’s Fable that Clover is based on. To summarize, the Fisherman is down on his luck, but something unexpected happens, he gets his fish that makes his days better.

2. Qrow is the scarecrow of the Wizard of Oz. This is why many of us are terrified of what’s going to happen next, because the other two companions of Dorothy, Leo (Lion) and Ironwood (Tin Man) have lost the gifts they seek. 

However, we have forgotten that the scarecrow is Qrow’s basis on a lesser degree. Even his position is lower - he’s not a Headmaster, he’s a simple Huntsman. He “serves” Oz, yes, but that part is nulled when his loyalty was betrayed by Ozpin’s secrets.

Even when he was helping Ozpin, he wasn’t a major player, he didn’t guard any relics, he was primarily a spy, which connects more to his forefront literary basis:

3. Hugin and Munin (sources: 1, 2)

Hugin (thought) is Raven. Munin (memory, mind) is Qrow. In Norse mythology, these are Odin’s two ravens that he sends out to spy for information around the worlds. 

Hugin and Munin Fly every day Over all the world; I worry for Hugin That he might not return, But I worry more for Munin.

Raven (thinks herself objective and sensible) definitely matches “might not return”, and Qrow (mental health poster boy held down by memories) is definitely someone who’s always on the brink of tragedy. 

But the thing about the original ravens is that they’re always together. Qrow and Raven have never worked together in-show. That’s the difference between the originals and our characters.

My theory is that they’ll come together, because Raven and Qrow have already shown signs of change from what their originals represent.

But it’s two ravens, no crows! At first, this bummed me out, I thought that this fact would be more supportive of my first tragic Qrow theory. But then...

Crows travel in groups, they’re more sociable (Qrow and his kids). Ravens often travel in pairs (her apparent closeness with Vernal). (bird facts source)

While Qrow would enjoy being with a lot of people, Raven would probably be more picky with her companions, and Vernal, her second, is now dead. 

Therefore, even if Qrow needs Raven at this very moment, Raven needs her brother, too. It’s not only Qrow who will benefit from the reunion.

The Branwen twins will both be better if they work together. In human minds, plans (Raven) and passion (Qrow) need to coincide for survival.

And if this theory comes through, there will be two ravens to satisfy Raven, and Qrow will always be himself, surrounded by family, at the same time. (hint hint side note crows mate for life the two would still have a lot of development to do)

Last thoughts:

This could be wrong. The Qrow tragedy might still happen. Something completely different could. Raven could be a total bitch the whole series.

IDK OKAY. bUT YEAH IM HOPING fuuuuck

Yeah, maybe we shouldn’t trust anything anymore. After all, so many people were truly hurt by last episode, it was still damaging. Turning this around won’t erase that fact. 

But... I really want my Qrow happy. He’s been the most relatable character for me, with the things he goes through, and I’d love it so much if he will come out stronger, with a large support system and some goddamn happiness. And I think... my version makes sense, too?

So maybe everything has a reason. Maybe this is setting up for something really great. We’re very hurt now, but... the sun is rising.

To prepare us for spring?

[clovertbh]

ironwood :eyes:

character asks | accepting !

JAMES “JIMBO” IRONWOOD

First impression

I was kinda,, meh when we first met him. Didn’t hate him, but I wasn’t too invested in him. 

Impression now

Sir,,, we need to get you some therapy. Are there therapists on remnant? Mans is a military general, which i get a lot of people dislike because of the stigma around real life militaries (which is valid), but at the end of the day, he’s still human, and he’s gone through so much trauma that he really really really needs a therapy session or 20. 

His fall from grace would’ve been more accepted if it was actually built up to. I felt it was rushed to so they can cover everything they possibly can in volume 7. I don’t necessarily agree with HOW he fell, but I think it would’ve been far more realistic if it had been written out in a slow-burn, if they really really wanted to make him an antagonist. It just felt abrupt to me personally because Ironwood was actually pretty generous this volume up until the end: he listened to their criticisms even if it invalidated some of his feelings, he LET the kids criticize him because hey, man needs opinions, and if Oz isn’t here, they’re the next best in his eyes. He wanted so desperately to help the world, not just atlas / mantle, and he was willing to follow anything and take any advice or criticism that was given. His plans were actually genius, it’s just… he didn’t know the truth so he pushed so much strain on mantle as a result. 

I just feel his fall from grace could’ve been done a little more cohesively and not like an hour after sparing watts and suddenly deciding oscar is more of a threat to him than arthur was. It just didn’t make sense to me that he’d shoot not only an unarmed person, but an unarmed CHILD – OSCAR on top of that, y’know, the kid he was growing close to and listened to, even when he wanted Ozpin instead.

I did love the visual hints that Ironwood had closed off. Like, his jacket w the X being open the entire volume but after the fight with Watts, the X is together and guarding his heart, especially now that he’s been lied to. I found that really really pleasing and wished we had more of that visual storytelling in the show.  It’s just. * chef kiss * poetic cinema 

Favorite moment

God there’s actually a lot, but I did appreciate him taking Oscar under his wing and being the first adult that Oscar could trust before ch 13 happened

Idea for a story

Yang talking with Ironwood and seeking advice on how to handle her mechanical arm considering this man is literally half metal  and has had to learn how to deal with it for an assumed long time. I want her to have a support system outside her family, and I think Ironwood fits the bill. It would be really cathartic to have two traumatized, disabled characters actually talk and bond and come to an understanding about each other and about themselves. Just, let Yang have someone who understands what she’s going through, let her have someone who HAS the advice to handle it, who has the experience. 

Unpopular opinion

I wish we had gotten more Ironqrow moments this volume. These two men haven’t seen each other since the Fall of Beacon, I wish we could’ve gotten to see them talk more and y’know, express how they feel about everything that happened. They were friends, even if they had differing opinions while being in Ozpin’s circle, and it just felt weird to me that Qrow was so disconnected from him this volume. I felt both parties should’ve reached out more to each other. 

Favorite relationship

James and his daughter, Winter. Listen, I’d die on the hill of James is more of a father to her, because he is. James and Winter have a really sweet dynamic built on trust, and I also wish we could’ve gotten so see more of them interacting on a professional and a familial basis. 

Favorite headcanon

Oh man, um. I liked the idea that he was the one with the truth semblance, but obvs it differed from Robyn’s. I liked the idea that he could’ve used it any time but didn’t because he wanted to trust the people he brought into his circle, give them the benefit of the doubt and show that he genuinely trusted them.

[itsclydebitches]

Another thing about how rwby views trauma survivors reacting to their abuse or unfortunate background is that it frames the solution to healing is by serving in armed forces. Weiss and Blake joined Beacon to escape their abuser. Ren and Nora joined Beacon after the loss of their families. Winter joined the military to escape Jacques and I'm assuming will become the new Atlas general after Ironwood's death. The Huntsmen Academies are all framed as these safe havens (literally with Mistral) for anyone who can carry a weapon, meanwhile anyone who can't or doesn't want to join, or joins a group outside of the institution is depicted as bad.

To say that this is all muddied would be a huge understatement because even if we put aside the complicated message of, "Overcome your abuse by learning to punch back," at this point the combined huntsmen-military is no longer presented as a means of escape. Rather, between the rewriting of Winter's history – she has apparently been manipulated by Ironwood this whole time rather than choosing the military as a means of escaping her abuser – as well as the military aligned huntsmen – FNKI aren't heroes like RWBYJNOR anymore, willingly protecting their home, they're children who have been forced into this conflict – there's now this major divide between fighters-on-their-own and fighters-as-part-of-the-institution. We could even read this as extending to the huntsmen academies themselves, given that one has fallen, one was destroyed, and the other lost its figurehead. They used to be presented as havens for struggling individuals... now, not so much. The plot's message is not that heroes win by banding together through established structures that were designed to help those coming from bad circumstances (note how aware Ozpin is of these backstories: Qrow's bandit tribe, Blake's White Fang history, looking into Ruby's defense of the store, etc.), but rather you win by rag-tag individuals making decisions based on friendship.

Yet simultaneously, that divide is by no means neat and tidy (since plenty of stories have that latter message). As we've discussed elsewhere, RWBYJNOR is ingrained in these structures despite the story rejecting them. They got their initial training at Beacon (how many fans have argued that they learned enough there? That they're basically full-fledged huntsmen already? So, that school was pretty important, yeah?). They worked with Ironwood for months. They're using the prestige of their licenses to get people to listen to them. They're hijacking military equipment to give the world orders to prepare for an attack. Ruby became a general in all but title in that moment, in the same way that Weiss became the Remnant equivalent of a cop when she tried to arrest her father. Volumes 6-8 suddenly wanted to send an anti-military message without considering the context of their story (what does a military mean in a world where unambiguously evil monsters attack, as opposed to a world where these "monsters" are minorities?) and they failed to separate the heroes from the structures they so passionately reject. You cannot have the group stand in opposition to Ironwood and everything he represents while also encouraging the audience to oohh and ahhh at Jaune whipping out his huntsmen license to lead a group of civilians to safety. The supposed cruelty of the former and supposed heroism of the latter are meant to exist simultaneously, despite the contradiction. We went from the message that huntsmen academies, including Atlas', are a haven from abuse, poverty, etc. but now, suddenly, certain types of escapes are no longer morally sound. So just ignore how many of the heroes took the "wrong" path.

And then on top of all of that we have Rhodes. RWBY is pushing the individualism message hard nowadays – that a group of friends is better than a general and his soldiers just ignore that Ruby is their leader and they all follow her orders – yet it's Rhodes' individuality that is criticized in Cinder's flashback. He, as a single person, tries to take on the complex situation of helping an abused child and he failed. The fandom's reaction to his efforts is pretty telling because most kept falling back on structural solutions: "Why didn't he just call CPS? Why didn't he get her admitted early like Ruby? Why didn't he approach some superior to fix all this?" Most fans seemed to grudgingly acknowledge that kidnapping Cinder and raising this traumatized kid on the road while hunting grimm was... not the best idea, so they turned to the very things they've rejected in Ruby's part of the story: laws that people have to follow, schools with an hierarchy that can serve as support, someone above you whose orders you follow and whose seniority can help you in a tough situation. In Cinder's flashback people wanted Remnant to have structural solutions because, clearly, leaving one flawed man to fix this situation on his own didn't turn out so well. They (and the writers) just don't want Ruby to have to obey those same structures because Ruby is the title hero they've grown to love over eight years. We feel like we know Ruby and we assume that if Ruby is in charge she'd totally make the best decision. But Rhodes? He's a stranger, someone we see for less than ten minutes, so his flaws are far easier to home in on. Few are willing to acknowledge that Ruby is Rhodes on a much larger scale, trying things because she wants to help, but ultimately doing far more harm because she's incredibly inexperienced and is just running on her own, individual ideas, not any of the structures in place that are meant to deal with such crises. Rhodes' "Idk what else to do, so I guess I'll teach a tortured kid how to defend herself and hope for the best" is Ruby's "Idk what else to do, so I guess I'll drop Atlas on Mantle, leave with the Relics, move everyone to Vacuo, and hope for the best." The primary difference is that while Rhodes is punished through his death and the narrative makes it clear that this was the wrong choice (Cinder murders everyone and becomes a villain), whereas Ruby's screwups are continually framed as heroic. And that's because the show can't make up its mind about this structural vs. individual approach. Do huntsmen need to be held responsible for their actions, or do they need complete freedom to do the right thing with the belief that anything that goes wrong was completely out of their hands (Yangs' take)? Well, that depends entirely on which huntsmen we're talking about. RWBY's idea that some people are intrinsically good and others intrinsically bad means that the writing – and the fandom – can demand rogue huntsmen be held accountable while simultaneously cheering the group running away from arrest; curse Clover for following orders while simultaneously gushing over how loyal the group is to Ruby; condemn lies that Ozpin gives while simultaneously justifying the ones Ruby gives, etc. RWBY has no clear message, just the insistence that whatever our heroes does is good. The path they've taken, learning to fight to escape horrific situation is a good thing. The path Rhodes laid out, teaching Cinder to fight to escape a horrific situation, is a bad thing. It comes down to the characters, not the situation.

Finally, yeah, there's a complete lack of acknowledgment that either option – structural or individual – alienates those who don't know how to fight. This is seen most clearly in Whitley who asks why he'd want to be a huntsmen when he can afford an army, yet when armies are painted as unquestionably bad, the story won't admit that this leaves Whitley stranded. He had no way to escape his abuse like Winter and Weiss did. He had no way to defend himself when Weiss shoved a weapon in his face. The story never had to grapple with where it's left characters who can't fight and who shouldn't make the evil choice of relying on soldiers because Whitley unexpectedly got on Weiss' good side and gained her protection. It doesn't matter anymore because Whitley is a Good Guy now who the group will take care of. But if he'd continued to disagree? Gone to his room instead of calling Klein? If, in the future, he does something that annoys his sisters and they decide to ignore him like they did before? Well, Whitley is screwed. In a world besieged by grimm – with attacks growing with each volume – he wanted to rely on an army to help solve these problems. But then that was said to be wrong, the general died, and the army, far as we can tell, was left behind to die as well. So what's left? Rely on the huntsmen. Just hope that there are enough (there aren't), that you get a good one (not a Lionheart, or a Raven, or a Cardin, or a Dudley, or...), and that the good ones care enough to bother protecting you. Even if the story hadn't gone out of its way to show how terribly flawed individual huntsmen are – from Lionheart's devastating betrayal to Qrow teaming up with Tyrian – from a practical perspective it's just not enough. Volume 8 showed without a doubt that in a war like this, one built on a witch's ability to summon endless grimm, an army is necessary. Salem would have been into Atlas in a second without those soldiers holding her forces back. Yang, Jaune, and Ren wouldn't have gotten to the whale without that army. Yet the story never acknowledges this, instead pretending like the few individuals we see – the limited numbers the characters keep admitting are horrendously limited – could have somehow saved the day without that assistance. Everything we're seeing nowadays – which characters can use these institutions to escape abuse, which can lie to help the war, which should rely on structures as opposed to their own ideas and physical power – is a mess of inconsistent, often contradictory messages.