#pro ozpin

[kitkatopinions]

The biggest instances of hypocrisy in RWBY mostly have to do with characters getting mad at Ozpin for something they themselves do (and sometimes they're really irrational about blaming Oz anyway) and it's funny that it feels like the RWBY writers just haven't even realized they're doing it.

Jaune: "How dare Oz involve Pyrrha in his war without telling her all the details, she's dead because of him and not because of any choice she made!" Also Jaune: "Yeah, let's try to recruit everyone in the world to the war with Salem via video message without telling them all the details and also I will kill Penny for the Maiden Powers because 'it's her choice.'"

The entirety of RWBYJNROQ: "How dare Ozpin keep secrets, give half truths, and not tell us everything!" Also the entirety of RWBYJNROQ: *Proceed to keep secrets, give half truths, and not tell everyone everything.*

Raven: "Ozpin keeps secrets, prioritizes what he wants, and also uses people for their powers." Also Raven: *Doesn't tell anyone what happened with Summer, barely does anything to help people and even works with Cinder and Salem out of selfishness and cowardice, and it's heavily implied that she took in and befriended the last spring maiden only to murder her for her power so Raven could have it herself plus essentially uses Vernal as a human shield while keeping her Maiden powers a secret.*

Hazel: "Ozpin's attempt to teach willing specialists how to fight Grimm resulted in my sister choosing to try to learn and then dying on the field of battle, therefore he's evil and monstrous and deserves death and torture and I'm going to blame him for her death. How dare he-" *checks notes* "Try to stop the Grimm from killing innocent people indiscriminately by asking for willing participants who don't get their hunter licenses until age twenty one to learn to fight them to defend said innocent people?" Also Hazel: *Literally kills tons of people and wants to kill a child and tortures a child on screen while working for the murderous woman actively attacking cities full of helpless innocent children who also partially controls the very monsters that killed his sister in the first place.*

Like, the show is entirely unconcerned with checking any of this hypocrisy either despite the fact that outside of Ruby and maybe Oscar who regretted keeping secrets (and Ruby regretted more than keeping secrets) Ozpin is the only one who ever seems apologetic or uncertain about the things he does. It's only ever Ozpin who is treated as bad for doing... anything that isn't one hundred percent perfect and flawless, no matter if his back is to a wall and no matter how uncertain or unhappy he seems in his choices. Then there's Raven and Hazel over here acting superior and totally sure of themselves and yet they're the ones who pretty much go unchallenged. Like I said, it's like they don't even realize they're doing it, like they wanted their 'morally gray mentor' story, forgot to actually include it in a convincing way, and then just do not actually give a damn about the morals and lessons involved so they write the rest of the story as if it doesn't matter at all. RWBY is like this in a lot of ways, where you have to actively pretend that the rest of the story didn't happen in order to enjoy moments that contradict it (whether morally or just through story beats.) But the Oz thing is just so frustrating because it's like.... Okay, so I'm not supposed to have any sympathy for the cursed abuse victim out here doing his best and acting heartbroken while in extremely bad lose-lose conditions, but I'm supposed to have all the sympathy in the world for the screaming murderer electrocuting teenage girls and trying to murder children while victim-blaming the guy he's trying to kill for all his own actions.... And the reason for why I'm supposed to be angry at Oz is because he was attempting to help the world in sometimes flawed ways with the weight of the world on his shoulders? But I'm supposed to have no problems at all with like, Jaune or Yang because they're trying to help the world in sometimes flawed ways?

Once again, RWBY as a show has no actual real morals to follow and zero consistency.

[doomalade]

are you pro-ironwood or pro-ozpin?

Both

And of course by Pro-Ironwood and Pro-Ozpin I mean “I think the writing direction behind these characters was flawed and I feel their turn to being more antagonistic was far too sudden and sharp of a turn for me to not sense the hand of the creator at work”.

So if anyone wants to say “you support fascism!”, please don’t, you don’t even know what fascism is and you’re just using it as a buzzword because you fell for the ploy of the writers making their main characters flawless saints who are always right (this isn’t good writing, it’s called being lazy).

The way I view it, either don’t have them twist into puppy kicking villains or commit to the bit from day 1 and have them always showing signs of evil bad destruction mwahaha.

[ironwoodprotectionsquad]

Ozpin! (Please be gentle to my boi he needs a rest)

Oh I have nothing but sympathy for Ozpin to be quiet frank so no worries their!

The way the show treats Ozpin despite what we found out in the lost fable still makes me very frustrated and angry for him. This is a man who died and then was brought back and forth repeatedly by the brothers before brutally killed again which alone would be extremely traumatic. Then he was tricked and manipulated into agreeing to be cursed to fulfill what he later finds out is literally an impossible goal.

Then he finds his wife, someone who he thinks is safe but then turns around and brutally murders him and his children when he tries to leave. He then finds out their is no way to stop Salem and his only hope is to maintain a stalemate. He tries to find Allies and tell them the truth but it causes them to turn on him and betray him over and over again. He then stops telling people the truth out of fear which also gets him betrayed over and over again. No matter what he does people blame him and hate him for Salems and the brothers actions.

No one wants to talk about it but gosh what the brothers did to him to have him bouncing between body after body and their souls slowly combining because of it? That is just cruel of the brothers. If you think about it Ozma is long since gone by now, his soul combined with so many others their is no way the original Ozma is their anymore and that is heartbreaking. And no I do not believe Ozma fully understood what GOL was doing to him until it was too late and he was made to believe the fate of the world was on his shoulders and his alone.

How could he not lose hope after all he learned and endured? How could he not feel hopeless and have no idea how to proceed or deal with this information?

Ozpin was handed a terrible hand and was then proceeded to be punished for getting said terrible hand in life and it kills me. He should be of one the most sympathetic characters in the show but we’re supposed to hate him because he dared not tell the whole truth to the main characters and that is apparently the worst crime any person can commit /s.

[helena-and-helena-meta]

Things I call my favorite characters:

James Ironwood: Babygirl, Irondad, Ironclad Irondad, Qrow's number 1 simp, Glynda’s number 1 simp

Glynda Goodwitch: Ironwood's simp, the punisher, Iron wife

Qrow Branwen: Qrowly(Crowley lol), unlucky gay dad, Ironwood's husband

Ozpin: Second favorite dad, sad boi, huggable, budget steampunk

Penny Polendina: The better Ruby, Ironwood's daughter, female Ortho Shroud, Remnant's best DJ

Lucifer Morningstar(Hazbin Hotel): Best dad, ducky, weirdo, fellow shortcake #3

Alastor: Deery, deer-jerky(affectionate), the annoying father(also affectionate)

Idia Shroud: Literally me, best boi, blue haired stick

Ortho Shoud: The favorite child, fellow shortcake #2, blue boi

Malleus Draconia: Dragon boi, Gargoyle nerd, horn boi, favorite dragon

Lilia Vanrouge: Fellow shortcake #1, armrest(affectionate), shorty, pointy

(Fun fact, I am only four inches taller than Lilia)

[spect-era]

I got my friends to say what they thought about RWBY characters <3

[sophieinwonderland]

Also on the subject of plural characters in media, there's Ozpin in RWBY who is an endogenic spiritual system.

I was also going to theorize about Klein being some sort of plural, but he's apparently confirmed to have DID, so no point theorizing. 🤷‍♀️

[branch-sys]

A random assortment of positive ironwood doodles because of all the shit going on in the tag ^^’

[lunatriense]

Its strange when you consider that Ozpin is a morally grey character.

But Ironwood was always considered one step away from being a menace by Qrow and Glynda.

And Ozpin, who repeatedly trusted Ironwood, got reported to the Council by Ironwood...leading to Qrow calling Ironwood a sellout.

And when Penny was killed, the first thing Ironwood did was try to save his ass.

I think the reason people defend Ironwood and his militaristic actions is a combination of conservative values, love of executive authority rather than allowing power in the hands of the people, and lets not forget the tendency of RWDE to take ANYTHING that Team RWBY does and twist it so far out of control that Fox News would be proud of how much misinformation is spread.

I'm not sure what Ozpin supposedly being morally grey has to do with the rest of this, so I'm gonna leave that one alone for now other than to say that I disagree that he is unless he's the stupidest person that's ever lived.

But yes, Ozpin's right hand and his drunk field agent, neither of whom would question him if he said the sky was green, were suspicious of Ironwood. Because he questioned Ozpin and did things Ozpin didn't like.

Like reporting his abysmal failure to the council when it caused a Grimm attack inside Vale, because he refused to take Ironwood's offer of actual military to handle Mountain Glenn and instead sent four first-year students and their teacher. Which is, you know, something the government should probably know about given how incredibly irresponsible it is.

How did Ironwood try to save his ass when Penny was killed? I certainly wouldn't call personally leading the defence of Beacon, from the front at that, and telling the students that no one would hold it against them if they run instead to be 'saving his own ass', and if you mean withdrawing to Atlas it was made pretty clear that because of Cinder's video, Vale and Mistral requested the withdrawal of Atlesian forces, so they… did that?

Listen anon, you can think that people defend Ironwood because of conservatism if you like, but it's just not true. I'm a dyed in the wool Marxist socialist, an LGBTQ woman with almost exclusively LGBTQ friends. I loathe conservative values and I'm all for power in the hands of the people, but the fact of the matter is that everything Ironwood did up until CRWBY turned him into a cartoon villain for v8 was good. It may not have been the absolute most ideal move, but it was a good move nonetheless, and far better than what Ozpin or team RWBY were doing.

[bestworstcase]

option 1: tai’s guarding the crown of choice.

pros:

a legitimately important task that recontextualizes his ongoing decision to remain on patch as a personal sacrifice he makes for the greater good.

ozpin would pick the guy named for the god of light to be the gatekeeper of choice, huh.

if any parent in this story is meant to die, it’s him, and narratively this is the most intuitive way to do it.

cons:

realistically, what can tai do to prevent salem / cinder / summer from accessing the vault if they find it? if he’s the gatekeeper, staying on patch alone after everyone else evacuates achieves nothing except, ah, signaling to the enemy that the real vault is under signal academy. bad plan.

it means oz is breaking his promise to be honest and forthcoming, undermining his character growth for the sake of ‘surprising’ the audience with the most obvious answer.

means qrow has either been kept in the dark (see prev point) or he’s also deliberately hiding this information from his nieces after they asked him outright if he knew where tai is; this is so far afield for his character as to border on character assassination, and likewise undermines his positive growth since v7.

honestly makes both yang and ruby seem kind of stupid. they know the crown is hidden somewhere near beacon, that ozpin did something to protect it differently from the others, and that their father hasn’t left patch. ruby was sharp enough to guess that long memory might be a relic hidden in plain sight; yang is just as smart, and she knows tai had “some things” to look after on patch. are we expected to believe that “hey, is dad guarding the relic?” somehow hasn’t occurred to either of them?

tai harbors a whole lot of resentment toward ozpin, and based on qrow kicking him out of ruby’s bedroom to drip-feed her hints on where to go next, he seems to have been on the outer perimeter of the inner circle. why would oz entrust him with the relic’s safety?

glynda—ozpin’s scrupulously loyal second-in-command whose emblem is a crown and whose semblance puts her on par with a maiden—is a far more narratively plausible vault-guardian than tai, and the “sun dragon” makes a damn good red herring.

if he’s guarding the vault, he dies. sorry. but the point of putting the father of 2/4 protagonists in between the two main villains and the thing they want most (choice) is so they can kill him to get it, increasing tension and raising the emotional stakes of negotiating peace. to be clear, rwby is willing to Go There, but i think it’s an unsatisfactory way to close out the rose xiao long family arc.

option 2: survivors trapped under mountain glenn, and tai is taking point.

pros:

a genuinely important, worthwhile thing for him to be doing—even more so than guarding the crown. likely sets up a resolution for him in the vein of “you can be a good huntsman or a good father, and tai picked being a huntsman,” which is an elegant way to balance his contradictions.

gives him meaningful stuff to do in v10; for example, one stealthy huntsman with a bullhead could slip in and out of mountain glenn to get a few dozen people out at a time, and/or run supplies and messages between the kingdoms.

we get to see zwei back in action around mountain glenn :)

introduces a natural segue from playing defense in vacuo to mounting a counteroffensive against beacon as tai’s work clarifies the situation in vale.

easily the most 'heroic' direction for him without contorting the story to arbitrarily lionize tai: he’s a scout preparing the stage for the heroes to take the fight to salem, making him the good counterpart to watts.

cons:

makes no sense to keep it a secret. the emotional beats of B4 can still happen if the girls know this is what tai’s doing: instead of “do you… wonder why he’s not here? i know qrow said he’s on assignment, but what’s more important than here?” yang says “do you… wish he were here? with us? i know qrow said he’s looking for survivors, but how many of them can there really be by now? we need all the help we can get,” and ruby says “maybe we don’t have the full picture” as in maybe dad knows something we don’t and that’s why he hasn’t given up yet. the emotion is the same, and the big "they’re hiding in mountain glenn" reveal is hinted without spoiling.

leaves hanging the narrative thread of what tai has been doing since the fall of beacon, because the “some things” he was dealing with in v4 obviously wasn’t this.

option 3: tai is dead.

pros:

explains the apparent secrecy; qrow knows tai was away “on assignment” (i.e., had taken a huntsman contract that brought him out of the kingdom) at the time salem attacked vale, so he is missing but not yet presumed dead.

might reopen the mystery box of summer’s last mission through the real-deal “left on a mission and never came back” echo.

cons:

raven would know.

it’s a cheap, narratively unsatisfying twist that fails to deliver on the bread crumbs set up in v2-3 (tai starts going on missions again) and v4 (“some things”), and also undermines any serious emotional resolution with regard to yang and ruby’s complex relationships with tai.

option 4: summer’s working with salem, and tai is trying to convince her to come back.

pros:

“some things” being his presumed-dead wife who left him to join the enemy and with whom tai is now having an affair or otherwise hoping to coax back to the heroic side through the power of love whilst also keeping his mouth shut about her being a) still alive and b) a traitor is OBJECTIVELY the funniest answer.

brings forward and interrogates the way tai’s romantic grief informs the choices he makes as a parent: from hiding raven and then refusing to talk about her with yang, to shutting down when he lost summer and letting his five-year-old pick up the pieces, to discovering and then keeping summer’s secrets for the sake of some faint hope that she might finally come back to him.

cogent with the Dead (Absent) Mother / Neglectful Father / Evil Stepmother fairytale paradigm rwby deconstructs with raven, tai, and summer; the father chooses the stepmother over his children.

raises the emotional stakes of the war for summer through direct confrontation with the life she left behind, creating narrative opportunities to develop her character (is she still in love with tai? how does she feel about being his first priority, over their children? does she resent that he has her on this pedestal even now?) and apply pressure to her relationships with salem and cinder (do they know? is summer keeping her communication with him a secret, too? or is he an “asset” she’s using for salem’s benefit?).

consequently, raises the momentum of the narrative toward negotiation with salem; tai still has the coalition’s trust, however strained his personal relationships may be. summer is the obvious ambassador for salem’s side of the war, but she’s also the traitor who needs someone to vouch for her good intentions.

the secrecy needs no explanation: just as summer’s last mission was a summer secret, tai’s "assignment" is a taiyang secret and the girls know everything that oz and qrow do, because all of them have been left in the dark. raven might know, and she has the means to find if she doesn’t, but tai’s whereabouts are entangled with what raven knows about summer, so she can’t explain where tai is or why until she reveals her deep dark secrets about what happened between her and summer that night.

foreshadowing is solid: tai starts to go on "missions" again in v2, after the inner circle becomes aware that salem has infiltrated beacon and just before the breach downtown. when ruby visits summer’s grave in v3, she says "[dad] told me he’s going to be on some mission soon! i think he misses adventuring with you." he’s got to "look after some things" (but he isn’t talking about yang, because he stays home after she leaves). and then with B4 we have ruby echoing what the blacksmith taught her about summer in relation to tai, "maybe we don’t have the full picture?"

juicy

cons:

???

dependent on the unconfirmed theory that summer is working for salem as herself, not some unrecognizable enslaved monster, but i am as confident in that as i was about salem going to vale next and we all know how that turned out :)

taking their mom was not enough salem had to go for the full set APPARENTLY

option 5: secret fifth thing

pros:

???

cons:

???

[t4tails]

ok so ppl have now told me that the white fang just kinda go away after this season, but like. okay im going to work within the context of the show for a second because let me be clear that i think the portrayal of the white fang and how the writers are trying to parallel real activist groups with them is incredibly sloppy and offensive. but within the context of the show, theres all this talk about salem and how her powers growing, right?

ozpin and qrow are talking about how theres been a growing number of malicious people, enough to affect her power substantially; how normally so many pro huntsmen dont just die at once like they have been lately. if *i* were a writer on this show, ...this would be an obvious connection to the white fang, right? large group of malicious people who want to kill an entire subspecies. it feels like set up. set up for a plot where the end game ties into reforming the white fang, improving human faunus connections, weakening salem enough to be able to be taken down. connecting the two biggest plots of the series so far.

and this feels really obvious to me, a viewer. but ive been told the white fang arent really relevant past volume 5. so where the fuck is this going....???

[howlingday]

Dr. Jägermutter

Salem: Guten tag. I am Dr. Jägermutter, und zis... is my resume.

Jaune: (Reading) "Freelance huntsman business consultant and motivational coach." Hm... I don't know. Money's tight enough as it is-

Salem: I vork pro-bono.

Jaune: You're hired! ...Once I figure out what pro bobo means.

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Salem: Your financial status is an unfortunate case, but you must not let it limit yourself. To overcome zis, you vill need a full-time staff.

Jaune: Whoa...

Salem: (Gestures to the full-time staff) As you can see, gazering retired huntsmen togezer for a common goal is a bit of a skill of mine.

Jaune: Wait, but who's paying for them?

Salem: Ze Kingdom vill. Zey are all part of a vork-rehabilitation program. I call zem, "ze Knight Angels." Get it? Knight? Night?

Jaune: No, no, I get it, but this is all just so much at once...

Nora: Jaune! We found some Grimm tearing down the forest!

Ren: Very unusual for Grimm.

Pyrrha: Everyone stay calm. We'll rally together so we can-

Salem: Zer is no need. Zose vere not Grimm, but ants. Ants building und expanding upon your leader's empire.

Ren: That's... a lot to take in.

Jaune: Right?

Nora: Wow! You're like some kind of magic girl!

Salem: Nein. You are ze magic girl! (Pulls lien out of Nora's ear)

Nora: WOW!

Salem: (Places it in Nora's palm) Here you go. I suggest you place zat into a high-yield mutual fund.

Salem: (Turns away) Now if you'll excuse me, I have much vork to do.

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Salem: Ladies und gentlemen, esteemed members of ze Schnee Dust Company, Mistrali Spiders, und Torchvick gang, I have read our demands regarding Jaune Arc's tuition, und your grievances in his tardiness to repay zem.

Lil Miss: And what the hell's it to you?

Salem: A minor inconvenience zat will be remedied shortly, if you vill allow me.

Jacques: Where the hell is Jaune Arc then?!

Salem: I vill be representing Herr Arc in zese matters.

Roman: What- Who the hell are you?!

Salem: I am Dr. Salem Jägermutter, und zis is my magic murder hand. (Opens palm, Closes) So, zere is a deal on ze table. Any takers?

JLR: (Dust and ash)

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Oscar: E-E-EVICTED?! But Jaune said I was-

Salem: Herr Arc has more important tasks ahead of him und cannot be saddled by raising children. Might I suggest you stay mit Team RWBY, or stay in ze local orphanage?

Oscar: No! I don't want to-!

Salem: Zese are grown-up matters, child. Or should I say... Ozma?

Ozpin: (Shifts) Wait a moment... There's... There's something familiar about you. Almost as if... as if... Ngh...

Salem: Oho...

Salem: YOUR POWERS ARE USELESS ON ME, YOU SILLY BILLY...

Ozpin: NGH... NGH... NNNNNNGAAAH! (Falls)

Salem: You have until noon tomorrow to vacate ze premises.

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Ruby: And she just kicked Oscar out! Like she owns the place!

Pyrrha: I know, and I don't like it either, but... (Sighs) She won't let me get anywhere near Jaune. Says I'm a "weak" influence on him. Honestly, I would have done something sooner if it wasn't for Ren and Nora. They're really grown on her.

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Salem: (Outside) Vere's Nora~?

Nora: (Giggling, Sneaking around)

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Salem: So, vat did ve learn?

Ren: Uh... I learned that even though the Grimm destroyed my village, it was the bandit attacks nearby that brought them there.

Salem: Und vat vas learned?

Ren: That... humans are worse than Grimm?

Salem: Mm... It's a start.

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Salem: (Hands Nora a knife, Points) Zis man stole from your leader! Teach him vat is ze meaning of loyalty!

Nora: (Timidly approaches with a knife)

Salem: Vould you prefer ze hammer?

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Ruby: That's... really weird.

Pyrrha: I agree, but she says she has a PhD in Child Psychology, so... I can't really argue with her.

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Jaune: I'm sorry, I just don't understand what you're saying.

Salem: I vas very clear; you cannot become ze leader you vish to be mitout confronting your deep-rooted fear of success! Now get into ze bag!

Jaune: ...What's in it?

Salem: Only vat you take mit you.

Jaune: (Steps in) Uh, okay? I'm, uh, standing in the bag.

Salem: ARE YOU?.

Jaune: Wait... This... This is my old kitchen back home! (Looks at Pumpkin Pete box) Oh, and here's Pumpkin Pete!

Jaune: Wait, I thought I was fixing my soul, or something? Ms.- Er, Dr. Jägermutter? Hello?

Papa Arc: Hey there, Jaune! (Wearing boxers) You're up pretty early, huh?

Jaune: (Kid) I couldn't sleep. You and Mommy were fighting again.

Papa Arc: Oh, uh, no, we weren't fighting, we were just, uh... sparring. Say, whatcha eatin there?

Jaune: (Turn) Pumpkin Pete! If Bunnerific-! (Gasps, Turns away from massive dong) B-But I don't think I like the pumpkin flavor.

Papa Arc: Yeah, I prefer the Peachy Patty, myself. She's such a cute bunny.

Jaune: (Regular age, Shutting his eyes) Blueberry Barry is my favorite, too, but he's supposed to be a bad guy... (Peeks) AGH! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO TO ME?! (Gulps, Slowly turns)

Salem: (Papa Arc's penis) This is the moment where your feelings of inadequacy first began to develop; when your father's status changed from role model and hero to rival and tormentor! (Tentacles envelop Jaune) WHAT WILL YOU DO?

Jaune: (Closes his eyes, Kid) Ngh! Rgh! P-Pyrrha, help!

Pyrrha: (Goddess appearance) I'm coming, Jaune!

Salem: NO! Do not call out to Pyrrha to save you! She and your father are the very reason you are trapped here, doomed to die with your dreams in this damnable tomb!

Jaune: (Opens his eyes, Sees Grimm RWBY)

Salem: Defeat these creatures of the dark! Fear! Self-loathing! Stinkin'-thinkin'! Und dilly-dallying! FREE YOURSELF! DESTROY THIS TEMPLE OF FAILURE!

Jaune: AAAAAAAGH! (Blinding flash of light, Standing before two marble statues)

Papa Arc: Jaune? What was that noise?

Salem: (Behind Jaune) The colossi will crush and continue to subjugate you unless you fight back! Kill them! Kill them and assume your rightful role as Leader!

Pyrrha: Jaune, let us help you.

Salem: (Transforms into a sword) DO IT! SLAY THEM WHERE THEY STAND! (Slashing about, Kills Pyrrha and Papa Arc)

Jaune: I... I did it... (Nugget hits his head) Oh! (Eats it)

Salem: (Pats his back) Ze son has become ze fazher, und ze pupil has become ze master. Rejoice, as your kingdom avaits.

Jaune: (Shoveling nuggies into his craw, Smiling)

Ruby: (Sneaks in, Steals nuggies)

Salem: Aaaaah, but who is zis tiny girl, stealing from your kingdom vat is yours?

Jaune: (Coughs, Chokes on nuggies)

Salem: (Places wallet in Jaune's mouth) Careful. Careful. (Jaune spits it out) Clearly, your experience vas so traumatizing, zat you had a seizure.

Jaune: (Covers himself) B-B-BUT WHY AM I NAKED?!

Salem: Because you have been reborn! Und your old clothes vill no longer fit you. (Reveals box) But zese vill... Und I vill need my vallet back.

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Jaune: (Wearing black armor with silver trim)

Salem: Zis suit vas hand-crafted by myself, using your measurements. Ze spandex should comfortably expand following your new vorkout routine.

Jaune: (Looks in the mirrors, Hums) Ya know what? I like it!

Salem: Ah~! (Sits, Covers her face) Es tut mir leid, I... I have become ze proud mama... (Crying, Clasps hands) I LOVE MEIN JOB~!

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Jaune: Ow! Why did you cut my hand?!

Salem: Much like how a fish needs gills to svim, a man such as yourself needs ink to write.

Jaune: Yeah, but blood? (Sighs) Whatever. What am I signing for anyways?

Salem: Your are signing to join an elite brother- und sisterhood of associates dedicated to ze destruction of mankind's truest enemy.

Jaune: Oh... Wow... Anyone I might know?

Salem: Oh, ja, (Flips page) you certainly do.

Jaune: Wait, but that's Ruby! She's my best friend!

Salem: Indeed! It is a classic friends to enemies tale!

Jaune: But that doesn't make any sense! Ruby can't be my enemy! She isn't even a-!

Jaune: (Looks at himself) Oh my god. This is... B-But I'm not-!

Salem: Aren't you?! You've lied! You cheated! You've stolen, und you have survived! Iz zis not what your heat vas telling you in your visions?! SIGN IT! BECOME WHO YOU VERE ALVAYS MEANT TO BE! KNIGHT ANGELS ARE STANDING BY FOR YOUR ORDERS! ASCEND!

Jaune: (Gulps)

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Pyrrha: (Kicks down the door) RUBY!

Ruby: AGH! I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!

Pyrrha: Have you seen Jaune?!

Jaune: (Sitting on the bed) I'm right here.

Ruby: He's been sitting on my bed for, like, an hour, and hasn't said a word since.

Jaune: Pyrrha, am I... a bad leader?

Ruby: I don't think so. Pyrrha?

Pyrrha: ...Um, w-well, you, uh, have your faults, but ultimately, uh, well-

Nora: Yup!

Ren: Nora!

Pyrrha: Jaune, where's Dr. Jägermutter?

Jaune: Gone. I... I told her I appreciated the work she put in, but that I wasn't... that what she offered just wasn't for me.

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Salem: All of ze world's a stage, und ze men und vemen in it are merely players.

Tyrian: Ha ha! You said it! And you can learn more in The Bible!

[kitkatopinions]

Do you think Glynda would have been the only one to side with Ozpin, or at least not hold much of a grudge against him, treating him empathy, after his big secret reveal in V6? She's already displayed a great deal of uncond trust towards him when she talked with Ironwood about him having doubts about Ozpin

Honestly, if the only thing that changed was Glynda's inclusion and the same writers were still doing the same things... I don't think Glynda would've sided with Ozpin at all, because the writers love to write "and then RWBYJNOR think blah blah blah," or "and then RWBYJNORQ want XYZ." They struggle to do plotlines where people can disagree without being framed as One Hundred Percent Bad In The Wrong Needs To Change Might Be Evil. I feel like if they had Glynda be a more prominent role and involved in the story up to V6, they would've had her also be so furious and disappointed in and angry at Ozpin just like Qrow, even if it didn't make any sense.

Logically though, what I think would happen if the writers cared about consistency and making their characters have an original thought, I think that Glynda would be the most on board with Ozpin and have the least problems with him out of anyone.

I think Qrow should've sided with Ozpin, but been personally very hurt by Ozpin's lack of trust in him, creating conflict for them to work through later. I think Yang should've been against Ozpin, resolving that he can't be trusted because he lied to them and (however temporarily) icing him out and not looking to him as a leader. I think Weiss should've been mostly on Yang's side, albeit with a bit more sympathy towards Oz, sort of in the camp of "I get where he's coming from but clearly we can't trust him to be honest or to always have our best interests at heart." I think Blake should've actually taken the stance of "you guys don't know what it's like, maybe he should've told the truth, but it's easier to say 'you should trust us' than it is to actually trust people after you've been hurt so many times, I've been there and I get it" and she should've been way more sympathetic towards Ozpin because of her backstory. I think once Jaune heard about it later, he should've had problems too and been willing to work with Ozpin, but hesitant with him and frequently doubting the legitimacy of his claims and tending to rely on himself and Ruby and not really think of Ozpin as any sort of reliable guide to be consulted in plans. Ren should take kind of the same stance as Jaune, albeit with a more logical thought process of "we should only do what he says if we think he's right, everything else doesn't matter as much." And I actually think Nora should've been fully on board with Ozpin, easily assuming that he only lied to them and/or didn't trust them because he'd been hurt in the past, and that she doesn't really care and still likes him. And I think that Ironwood should've - when he eventually heard - been somewhat hurt as well, but understand the logic of it, but also just resolve to work all the harder himself, knowing that Ozpin is not always a safety net and knowing that Ozpin doesn't always share everything important. And Glynda would fully on Ozpin's side except unlike Qrow (who I feel has a very emotional and personal connection to Ozpin and would fall back on believing in Ozpin because he loves him more than because it logically makes sense) and Nora (who I honestly think is just a very loyal follower with strong intuition and a good judge of character but doesn't really have much logic behind 100% trusting Oz,) Glynda would instead completely get where Oz is coming from, completely understand why he did the things he did, completely agree with them, and just keep trusting him completely. As for Ruby (who is the most important person here,) I think that she should've been kind of in-between and not sure what to think, feeling confused on how she's supposed to react, trying to make everyone happy at once, and be understanding but also a good strong leader herself, and tries to rely more on herself instead of others in the wake of what happened.

Basically, if I was the RWBY writer, I think Glynda would side with Ozpin because that's what I think makes the most sense for her character. Everyone should be having different reactions because what Ozpin did is nuanced, not just pure evil, and I think that with what Glynda was like in V1-3, the natural thing and what would make the most sense would be her understanding and supporting Ozpin. However, I think if the writers included her, she wouldn't side with Ozpin at all, because they didn't want it to be a nuanced conversation and a chance to show the range of their characters where some people agreed with Ozpin, some people didn't, and some people were kind of in-between. They just wanted to say 'Ozpin is bad and dumb and we should all be against him,' and so they couldn't have Glynda do anything but agree with Team RWBY... Unless they made her into one of those characters that temporarily disagrees with Team RWBY so they can all be like 😮🫢😞😠 and then they either take it back later of become an antagonist.

[onewomancitadel]

(Hon.) @rubyneo pointed out the Ozlem thing with the Qrow-I/ronwood dynamic across V7/V8 and like... well you're not wrong. You're not wrong at all, what's smart about it is that it's genuinely hard for people to 'pick a side' - you empathise with both (speaking generally here... but I honestly haven't seen any posts pro-I/ronwood which are anti-Qrow, at least not insane ones), the betrayal cuts deep and you can see why the Salem is upset about the Ozma, it's just there's a Robyn to hold him back. Again you get the duplication of that idea that Ozlem's isolation is a problem.

Yes I am seriously advancing the maiden in a tower idea with Qrow, because I do think this is a thing, and I really like that this complements the idea with I/ronwood that he's an Ozma (whose ultimate purpose is corrupted, but the whole 'running away' thing is very very Ozma!), and I think it explains why it's so personal. I mean, if I were to speak a little more subjectively here, I really enjoyed that out of the last lieutenants of Ozpin, Qrow and I/ronwood really seriously haven't given up at all (Summer's gone, Raven is gone, Tai is retired, and so on) - Glynda is a bit of a sticky one by comparison because she's a little more under Ozpin's thumb (no offense Ozpin) - and what demands that puts on them is really interesting especially when for so long it seems like they both perceive the other as not going about it the right way. But there is a genuine sense of camaraderie and trust which develops.

This is smart from a narrative perspective because Ozpin is hidden by necessity until the V7 finale, and so having Qrow there as a character to feel really personally rejected (Weiss included) is very good. From the Ozlem perspective I think it duplicates and evolves the idea of the Ozlem betrayal, and what they've become having to fight each other.

I'm not seriously advancing a Qrow/I/ronwood romantic thesis though. Not very Ozlem sequence is romantic, so it's significant when it is, or when it is a sort of breakup/betrayal (Blake/Adam) it's repeating a negative iteration. The Qrow/I/ronwood dynamic doesn't redeem Ozlem, but it does suggest empathy towards Salem, which is interesting.

In essence yes I do think Qrow really is a princess, just a bit.

[helena-and-helena-meta]

Ozluminati Incorrect Quotes :3

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This has some shipping and some suggestive stuff because, well why not?

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Glynda: "Could you guys at least try to see this from my perspective?"

Ozpin: *crouches down*

James: *kneels down*

Qrow: *sits on the floor*

Glynda: "..."

Glynda: "I hate all of you."

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James: *out cold on the ground*

Glynda: "Oh my god, do you think he's okay?!"

Qrow, holding a bucket of ice water: "Who cares?!" *dumps all of the water on James’s face*

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Glynda: "How did you even get in here?"

Qrow: "Ozpin's window! Or, as I like to call it, "Qrow's door"!"

Ozpin: "I’m closing the window."

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James: "Hey, check out my Spongebob umbrella!"

*James opens his umbrella while indoors*

Glynda: "James, that’s bad luck…"

James: "Chill out, Glynda!"

Qrow, kicking down the door: "WHO SUMMONED ME?!?!"

James and Glynda: *screams*

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Qrow: "The moon looks beautiful, doesn’t it?"

Glynda, looking at Qrow: "Yeah… but do you know what’s more beautiful?"

Qrow and Glynda in unison: "*sighs* James"

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Qrow: "I sleep with a gun under my pillow."

Ozpin: "I sleep with a knife."

Glynda: "Both of you are pathetic."

Qrow: "Oh yeah? What do you sleep with?"

Glynda: "James."

(You can swap Qrow's and Glynda’s places in this too :3)

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Glynda: "I spy with my little eye something that begins with the letter “s”."

Ozpin: *looks over at James and Qrow*

Ozpin: "Is it “sexual tension”?"

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Qrow: "I’m the sexiest bitch in this therapy waiting room."

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Glynda: "I love you."

James: "I love you too. I've waited so long to hear you say that."

*Glynda and James kiss passionately*

Ozpin, to Qrow: "You owe me 20 dollars."

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Ozpin: "Qrow, you'll be working with James and Glynda."

Qrow: "Alright! My fantasy threesome!"

Everyone else: *blank stares*

Qrow: "...Of people on a team."

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James, "looking through their clothes: Has anyone seen my top?"

Qrow: "Glynda's in the kitchen."

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James: "That's not funny."

Qrow: "I thought it was funny."

James: "You don't count. You started laughing in the middle of a funeral because you started thinking of a meme you saw on Facebook."

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James: "Why are you on fire?"

Qrow: "This is just how my day is going."

[strqyr]

to be fair re: qrow training, it's implied that he trained Ruby for... I would gues several years. dude deserves a break

i mean he did train ruby after ruby had already made crescent rose and proved to suck at actually using it, sooooo... depending on how long that took ( i.e. how early do students at signal actually make their weapons and how long designing & making one takes on average ) and how many years combat schools last... if we assume it's the same as academies, i.e. four years, qrow could have trained ruby from anywhere from one to two years.

which isn't really that long of a time as it likely wasn't constant, every day thing; ruby would have had other teachers, as well as responsibilities at school that would have taken her time, not to mention the possibility that while a teacher at signal, qrow could have still gone on missions for ozpin ( if not as often ), meaning he could have been gone for longer periods of time. all this could have amounted to qrow getting ruby started and once she got the hang of it, take a step back and let her go her own way.

and, well, considering that qrow is a pro-huntsman with two decades worth of experience under his belt and at this point, the non-grimm enemies they're fighting are very much on his level of skill, it certainly wouldn't hurt anyone if he sparred against team rwby and co every now and then—especially after they kind of got wrecked by cinder the last time they fought. like that performance is not something that would raise their spirits or belief that they're up to the task in case the next time comes ( and it will ) so even from the characters' point of view... they would want to be more prepared.

and if qrow is going to be around anyway, then he can also lift his finger to help lol

[sophieinwonderland]

Actually I headcanon Ozpin to be a traumagenic spiritual system!

I can see that for the original being formed from trauma, but later incarnations aren't formed from trauma in the bodies.

Hmm... Do you think the later incarnations would be better categorized as exotraumagenic?