#professional body double spoilers

[arthoewholoveseverything]

Question: Where is the other Joe?

Is this a Mr. Queen situation where his soul is also trapped with our Joe? Is he dormant or is he completely aware that someone else has taken over his life/body? If our Joe were to leave his body, would he be able to regain control? Or will he just forever be stuck in a coma like before?

Or is this a It Lives Within situation where our Joe has now inhabited the other Joe's body after he passed? Will our Joe slowly lose himself throughout the years until he is unable to tell the difference between himself and the other Joe?

Has he passed on? Is he no longer with us? If our Joe were to leave his body, would it just be empty?

Or is the other Joe in our Joe's old body? Is he just at the bottom of a cliff somewhere??? Did he manage to survive or did he die a slow painful death?

I can't stop thinking about the other Joe. If you novel readers have answers, please dm me. I need to know.

[zhouxiangs]

hi sasa! about my stand in novel, since you read the tags before going in, were there anything you were surprised with (either good/bad surprise)? what aspect do you think is the most enjoyable/compelling of the story despite there is still some cliches/cheesy/perhaps even predictable in the writing? i finished it recently as well and i love listening to another reader's thoughts about it

hi anon!

i know i sound like a yan mingxiu apologist at this point but i was honestly expecting him to be way worse, and then he wasn't! i was vaguely aware that he was, maybe, the less scummy of the 188 group because i read a tiny bit about that before starting the novel, but i was still prepared for someone downright evil (or evil for evil's sake, or whose actions would piss me off for most of the story only to have some kind of big reveal later that would make me rethink everything—not that i'm actually opposed to that approach actually, but i'm still glad it wasn't like that in pbd, at least for the readers, because i liked following his emotional journey in real time-ish) and, while he still wasn't great, let's say i don't approve of his ways but i could easily understand how he got there.

going to hide the rest of my answer under a read-more because i want to get into spoilers and sometimes a tag isn't enough:

i told @clairedaring when i started the novel that yan mingxiu was funny to me because it was so clear even then how oblivious he was being (and later on how he was going to be hurt by the consequences of his own actions, boy was shooting himself in the foot the whole time) and i stand by that. i did cry for him, but i also reveled in his pain after seeing him sow the seeds for a year. get karma'd. oh and his age was a nice surprise too! i'd assumed he would be older for some reason (maybe because of up poompat) but he's a babyyy. it just made so much sense that he would be so immature with his background and being that young; not that people his age are immature or i'd expect them to, obviously, but some things are a lot easier to understand and excuse (at least for me) once you know he's only 20. it also makes him way more believable and his actions generally easier to digest than if he was idk, up's actual age. anyway i went into the story with that mindset, so maybe that's why i never really disliked him. or maybe it's because i'm older and a few years ago i wouldn't have thought the same, who knows.

as for the most compelling/enjoyable aspect i'd say it's mostly the way the characters are written, which, bare minimum lol but they were just so believable as people? there was depth, there was consistency in the characterisation (oh the bar is in hell); i could understand why zhou xiang was wavering, and why it took him so long to notice/accept and to believe in yan mingxiu's feelings; i could see yan mingxiu's feelings developing early on and also understand why he was basically gaslighting himself into still believing he loved wang yudong, even though by then he was already starting to notice how he didn't even like him as a person (one of the things i found so amusing about yan mingxiu was the way he'd automatically redirect his thoughts about zhou xiang to circle back to "but the best part about him is definitely how his back looks like dong ge's", he's. so dumb) he was so set in his belief and so used to think about wang yudong as the person he loved that he didn't even bother to stop and think for a second if that was even true anymore. aughhh. i really think the characterisation was really strong; it's not like i don't latch onto random weak characters for no reason constantly but this is usually what's important for me in fiction, and specially in a story that is mostly about feelings i need to really care about the characters, otherwise what's the point.

the flow of the story (the english fan translation in my case, but i think this comes from the story itself) was really good too! that by itself would have made me read the whole thing pretty quickly even though i wanted to make it last, not gonna lie... but yeah, with those two things combined i had no chance. i would intend to read one or two chapters before sleeping and then end up reading anywhere between 20-40, so now i have to microdose the extras or i'll run out of yanzhou content, sobs.

and of course, not to be me, but the best thing about pbd is my sweet angel baby zhou xiang. i was pretty sure i was going to like him a lot just from reading claire's propaganda post (lol) and sure enough, by chapter 6 his doormat ways had bewitched me body and soul. i already adored him as a very social but also very lonely man who had resigned himself to be alone at the tender age of 29 (out of practicality? like granted, he knows better than me how his environment functions but he never had any trouble finding a hook up either? so why that level of cynicism, baby boy. it's not like he can't look for a partner outside of his circle either). a man that so desperately yearned for a loving partner/a family of his own but that settled for scraps, and sometimes not even that. i loved seeing him being domestic and at times even sweet with yan mingxiu in his original life, and how he was a bit like a puppy. i loved how softhearted he was, and how petty he got at times; how he wanted to take that role from wang yudong because he was jealous of him and, since he couldn't get yan mingxiu to love him, at least he could "win" somehow and not be second to wang yudong by taking that role away from him, even if it was only once and not what he really wanted/the only thing he actually cared about (ie yan mingxiu's heart); how he wanted to hurt and maybe embarrass yan mingxiu by telling him about "wang yudong"'s back in his first film being that of a stuntman (and oh how i loved what that caused). but mostly i loved that despite all that he was still, above everything else, softhearted; he stopped caring about wang yudong altogether as soon as he knew the truth about yan mingxiu, even thought he'd spent years suffering because of him by that point; he always took care of chen ying, whatever it took, because even though she was only his new body's mother she was the only mother he had and he'd already hurt her enough by taking the place of her son, doesn't matter that he had no power over that.

i loved watching zhou xiang grow as a person and learning to put himself first sometimes, and having the resolve to fight for what he wanted for once and not just put up with everything life threw at him. i didn't even like the yan family plot (could do without yan mingxiu's father beating his gay son, thank you) but seeing zhou xiang standing up for himself and their relationship made me so emotional and so proud of him. his development was really the best, and i just love him so so much.

also it's so funny to me how i imprinted on poom phuripan like a baby chick the first time i saw him (as guy in bake me please) and then i had pretty much the same experience with a character he's going to play lmao as if i didn't know he's perfect for the role already.

look at him! he's so beautiful, so zhou xiang-shaped. i thought about up from time to time while reading too, but i was picturing poom in my mind constantly without even trying to. 10/10, perfect casting.

also! cheesy is good! cheesy is fantastic, even. same with clichés and predictable stories that follow a certain formula; sometimes that is exactly what i want, and as long as it makes sense and feels natural to the characters and the story (ie they don't just do things/things just don't happen because it's what needs to happen next) i'm down with anything. also i don't know if this counts as predictable or just paying attention because after all that's what the mentions/clues were there for, but things like yan mingxiu's obsession with wang yudong's back and consequently zhou xiang's... the moment we got yan mingxiu remembering how he fell in love at first sight with wang yudong's back at 16 when he saw that now-classic scene of him getting out of the water in his first film i knew what was coming, specially because by that point we knew how long zhou xiang had been working as wang yudong's stuntman (not sure if we knew about him being uncredited yet).

and sure enough, he was never credited in the first place because they wanted the action scenes to help build wang yudong's fame, and yang mingxiu had been in love with zhou xiang's back the entire time. you don't get much more cheesy than that, and it's literally my favourite thing about the novel 😭

and i'm stopping myself here oh my god...

[syrena-del-mar]

Navigating the Conflict in My Stand In: Surrender and Softening in Love

(Disclaimer: Ming/Joe is an incredibly toxic relationship; I fully realize and acknowledge that, but Poom makes a critical distinction in Joe's reasoning, and I think it's interesting to dissect. Also, this is fiction.)

It's been some time since I've written any meta, but I can't stop thinking about the video @poomphuripan shared of Poom making the distinction that Joe isn't giving in to Ming, but rather, his heart is melting for him.

It makes so much sense that Joe would melt at the littlest semblance of 'love.' He was so alone for so long. His parents have been dead for longer than he had them, he has no siblings, and his extended relatives don't care about him. I forget if it's mentioned in the show, but in the novel, Joe had a pretty big crush on Sol, and Sol rejected him quite brutally. Even without meaning to be, Joe is always alone at the end of the day.

Yes, Joe has friends, and yes, Joe made his own found family. But at the end of the day, Joe would return to an unlit, empty home. Everyone else would return to their wives or families, while Joe could only return to the pictures of his parents. Meanwhile, for all of Ming's bs and frightening behavior, he was the only one that made his dream come true.

For the first time, with Ming around, Joe would come home and be greeted by the warmth of another living, breathing person. Joe craved to have a human bond, and Ming was the one who was willing (albeit for his own interest) to give it to him. And he cooked for him. He took up space in his home! He remembered the very things Joe had told him he longed for. They had a lot of good times, a lot of good memories, and a pretty set routine that really integrated Ming into Joe's life. But then they fight, his blissful reality breaks, and Joe dies.

But Joe wakes up from what feels like a day's nap when, in actuality, two years have passed. And what does he find? Ming has cared for his apartment since his death and is unwilling to change anything just in case Joe returns. Ming continues to fulfill Joe's dream of returning to a warm home. So he turns on the lights, and he cooks the same dinner that they used to share for two years. And even in his rightful anger of wanting Ming to leave him alone, he's still seeing that. In the two years since his disappearance, someone still thought about him and hadn't fully grieved him. Ming's brother only confirms that.

Giving in would mean that Joe wanted to end the fight with Ming, when no feelings had changed. It'd be him emotionally surrendering himself, compromising his feelings of being just a double for Tong, and fully conceding himself when he still thought that Ming only saw him as a replacement. While Joe might have given Ming access to his body to pay his new mom's debts, he was still blocking Ming out as much as he could. But that's not why Joe forgives Ming; it's not for a superficial reason to stop the feud. There's a visible shift in how he perceives Ming, the guy who waited two years for him, who protected and filled his home with warmth, just in case he wasn't really gone. His motivation was rooted in the slivers of positive feelings he had for Ming, which allowed him to move past the anger that he held for him.

A quote that I've seen floating around the internet for years comes to mind. "And when nobody wakes you up in the morning and when nobody waits for you at night and when you do whatever you want. What do you call it? Freedom or loneliness?" Joe has had that freedom for the majority of his whole life. It's no longer freedom for him. But even his found family isn't fully aware of the loneliness that would wash over him when he would return to an empty home.

After all is said and done, he sees that only one person knows him intimately enough to understand and learn even the most mundane of his desires. Ming, even with all the toxic shit he has pulled, stood by his word of not letting Joe return to an empty home. For Joe, that was enough. It changes how he sees and understands Ming.

It's also why Sol and Joe would have never worked out.

As Poom said, ultimately, it's not that he gives in to Ming but rather he lets his heart melt when he sees exactly what Ming has done for him in his absence.

Even after everything, Joe still loves him.

[clairedaring]

if you're hoping for joe 2.0 to get his 'revenge' in the second half of the series...

warning: mild novel spoilers (but also not really because i'm just discussing things that have been shown in the trailer)

i really think you should either drop the series or give up the hopes of a satisfying makjang revenge storyline in my stand-in instead of setting yourself up for disappointment. because that simply isn't the story that my stand-in is trying to tell.

so what is my stand-in about really?

well, for me i think its a romance tragicomedy drama about an idiotic scum male lead losing the person he loves most because of his own arrogance and refusal to listen to his heart and the series of unfortunate events that happened consequently for our protagonist who was living a peaceful and quiet life as a stunt actor before the scum male lead entered his life.

joe 2.0 and his approach to life

i've mentioned it twice now that one of my favorite traits of joe/zhou xiang is that kindness in his strength where even if he can be choose to be mean or cruel, he simply doesn't because he has such a soft heart and he's weak to see others in pain (joe is my fellow enfp people pleaser okay) (⁠っ⁠˘̩⁠╭⁠╮⁠˘̩⁠)⁠っ which is why even in his 2.0 life, you won't get to see joe turning 180 degree and going around to hurt everyone who's ever hurt him like it's some makjang kdrama.

and while that seems like it could be fun, i think the reason why i loved professional body double (my stand-in novel) so much in the first place is because that very distinction between joe and other rebirth/second chance at life protagonists that you often see in revenge kdramas/cdramas/thai lakorns.

logically, if my stand-in was a 24-episode one31 lakorn/thai soap opera, joe would be full of hatred and burning rage after his rebirth and started his intricated revenge plot while still falling in love with ming whom he should hate the most.

and yet he isn't (or at least it seems to me so far).

if you read the lyrics 'Die For You' - the opening ost of my stand-in, i think you can have a good guess of what the second half of the story will be like.

Even running away to death can't help. If my heart had chosen to stop at you I'll have to surrender with the confusion I feel. To come back to the same old place. Even if I have to die, disappear and then be reborn But the love is still buried deep inside, even if it's been shattered into pieces Even if my life ends, I can't stop my heart from calling out to you Because this whole body, life, spirit It is yours only, for all eternity.

and even from the trailer of my stand-in, you can tell that joe 2.0 has a lot of internal conflicting feelings about whether he could trust ming again after the betrayal he faced in his 1.0 life. and i feel like essentially the journey of ming proving to joe 2.0 that he really does love joe is very much the central plot in the second half part of the story.

so i'd like to take this part to note how well the series has done to adapt the novel so far. i think a good adapted change they've made is this early realization of feelings for ming in the joe 1.0 timeline. i do think the novel made him realized his feelings a little bit later but my stand-in did well to show within ep.3 what happiness could have looked like for joe 1.0 and ming and i think it rationalizes a bit more more for why joe 2.0 would still have feelings for ming 'buried deep inside' even when he's been badly hurt the first time around. and reading the story i've always found it interesting that they took this route to focus on the re-entangled complex relationship between mingjoe rather than going for a joe-centric revenge makjang plot (i swear if this was your typical thai lakorn, joe would seduce ming while planning to take down his whole family or something).

of course, that's not to dismiss that there's a lot of character growth for joe in the second half of the story, especially in his building of self-confidence, self-worth, the ability to put himself first and the fight for his own happiness above all. but like i've mentioned above, his growth journey is not at the expense of a drastic personality change in regards to the kind hearted joe we saw in his 1.0 life. instead, we get kind hearted joe 2.0 who quickly adapts to his new life and attempts to start anew while conflicted feelings resurface for him as he is pulled back into the relationships he once had.

all in all, my stand-in is still at the heart of it, a love story. perhaps, a dark romance as my friend @dragonsandphoenix would call it, but a romance nonetheless. i think that is what also makes professional body double such a compelling read too, because the progression in the feelings and complex emotions of these characters are so tightly written that it's convincing enough for me (maybe not for others though) to believe that yan ming xiu has/will always love zhou xiang (to the point ymx would probably eliminate anyone else who dared to steal zx from him). obsessive love? yes. do they both need therapy? probably. yet i still believe in their happy ending? of course.

final note/disclaimer: then again, this is just my PERSONAL opinions based on the novel and up til 3 episodes of my stand-in (which seems to be very faithful to the novel so far), who knows maybe they can anger novel fans and adapt it completely differently later on (something i sure hope they don't but we'll seeeee) ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ

[poomphuripan]

rosyspell doesn’t have the special chapters of pbd. would you be able to summarize them? 💞💞

hi nonnie! of course i'd be happy to (o゜▽゜)o☆

full disclaimer: my knowledge of 188 novels is still limited so i might not cover all of the special chapters, these are just the ones i've been able to read/know due to the handful of vietnamese/english translations i've been accessible to.

so there are generally a lot of official extras: the written word extra chapters, additional material like interview with the characters, official chibi/cartoon au... which is why for this post i'll just focus on summarizing the post-canon extra chapters. i'll also be linking a few translations i found.

Post-canon extra chapters of Professional Body Double

(i read all of these post-canon extra chapters through a vietnamese translation here, you can google translate and get the gist of them)

Daily life a couple: Ming is sulky at Joe for always being so busy with work because he's busy himself but he can always spend time with Joe while Joe has a lot of projects to film. Joe coaxes Ming by agreeing to go on a short trip with him to the beach. They have kinky sex on the beach.

Period of Happiness: Joe surprises Ming by returning home early from his work trip. Joe hears the sounds coming from the bedroom while Ming quickly turns off what he was watching. Joe got curious so he secretly looks at what Ming had been watching, turns out Ming was watching old films which Joe 1.0 starred in. Joe feels conflicted, a bit envy of his old face, is kinda forlorn and down mood. Next morning, Ming notices something's wrong with Joe and apologizes profusely to Joe for watching films of Joe 1.0 while Joe is like it's fine (he was in fact, not fine). In the evening, Joe tells Ming he's gonna take a walk outside but Ming got all paranoid that Joe is still mad at him and starts crying and begging him to stay, promising he'll never watch films of Joe 1.0 again if Joe stays (all this kid knows is how to beg and cry lawd). Joe is like no he's just worried that Ming cannot fully accept his new look compared to his old one. Ming was like no he should be the one worrying here, worrying that one day Joe can get upset and leave him without saying goodbye like Joe once did. Ming does regret that he's never had a picture taken with Joe 1.0 but promises that he only loves the current Joe in front of him. They had hot emotional sex after resolving their conflict.

Injured Xiang-Ge: Joe gets injured on set and broke his rib a little bit. Ming immediately flies home to see Joe and take care of him. Ming expresses his fears and worries about what if one day Joe hits his head and lose all conciousness of Joe 1.0 or if Joe 2.0's soul return to this body. Joe reassures Ming that he will be more careful later on when filming.

New Year Vacation: A snowstorm hit the set where Joe is filming, causing a delay in production. Joe messages Ming to coax him about not being able to come back home in time to celebrate Lunar New Year with him. Ming surprises Joe at the hotel where he was staying to celebrate new year with him.

Jealous Little Gong: Ming is jealous over the news reporting about Joe's new film and dating rumors with his actress co-star. Joe is being sickenly sweet trying to coax Ming.

Summer Limited (adapted audiodrama here): famous actor Joe is invited to Italy for Milan Fashion Week, Ming is somewhere in Europe working around the same time so he received an invitation to the FW by the organizers to walk with Joe. Ming surprises Joe with his appearance and they're all lovey dovey with their public appearance at Joe's hesitance because it's implied that Ming's father still disapproves of his gay son.

Vacation in Munich in 2018 (english tl here): Joe takes some time off acting when he's at the height of his career to travelled with Ming to Germany where Ming is supposed to be working there for some time. They take a walk around the city one day and run into a female acquaintance of Ming. Basically Ming teases Joe about whether he's jealous, they're just being lovey and dovey bantering.

English translations of official AUs

ABO AU - read here Sentinel & Guide AU - read here

[dragonsandphoenix]

My Stand In Thoughts So Far As A Novel Reader (Potential Spoilers)

I find it kind of ironic that before the series came out most novel readers were (and still are) mostly satisfied with Poom's casting of Joe/Zhou Xiang while being skeptical of Up as Ming/Yan Mingxiu.

Now that I've watched 2 episodes I can say Ming in the show is honestly way closer to his novel characterization than Joe is. Tbf this doesn't have to do much with casting so much as writing, but it's funny as I'm having way more notes and thoughts on Joe than of Ming (who Up is pulling off pretty well). I am digging the show and how they've adapted things, and I think what they're doing is that with the shorter runtime that they have they're breezing quickly through the story and getting straight to the drama, while the novel more gradually builds up to it. If you read the novel Zhou Xiang isn't so down bad for Ming Xiu in the beginning. In the scene where Ming Xiu gets angry at him for assuming that he's jealous and storms off, Zhou Xiang brushes it off and falls back asleep (which is hilarious, he's just like "I'm too hung over for this"). Ming in the show otoh, the show is expanding on his backstory and giving him more humanizing moments but overall he's mostly the same as his novel counterpart.

Honestly if I wasn't too lazy and more articulate I'd love to do more of a comparative analysis of the differences between Novel Zhou Xiang and MSI Joe and how they affect the narrative. Maybe I'll wait until more episodes are out before thinking of doing that.

[kennyomegasweave]

I spent the entire night reading the novel version of My Stand In.

Spoilers.

And fuck me.

I'm so mad cause now I know I'm gonna love Ming's toxic ass and I really didn't want to. But like. That's just a stupid little mean dumb baby right there. Ugh.

I also got Very Very Annoyed with Joe more than I thought I would, though I did still like him. But he was way too pathetic and passive for a dude in his 30s at times.

I also hella hated the younger friend that I assume is Sol. So I do hope they change some of that cause my god was I annoyed at almost every scene he showed up in.

What a book. Mad as hell I wanna clutch Ming to my bosom. Glad I read it. Can't wait to watch the rest of the show and see what's different and the same.

[authorred]

Doctor's Orders | Part 1 | Li Shen/Zayne x fem!Reader | Love and Deepspace |

Preface: As someone who chronically ignores her cardiologist's orders, what happens when that backfires on you worse than normal? Recovering from a life-threatening run-in with a wanderer, it's up to your doctor to put you back together.

This is entirely self-indulgent bc I love this man and this game is so pretty for no reason????? Download that shit (not sponsored, they're just my husbands fr)

Part 2

Warning(s): Mentions of bodily injuries, blood, near-death experience, SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 5!

You didn’t mean to stumble into another fight—it literally came to you. The aether core in your heart has begun to act up, resulting in you short of breath and lightheaded upon any sort of physical exertion. Your heart rate would increase dramatically in compensation which in turn made your evol act up—it was a shit show. Because of that Doctor Zayne firmly instructed you to rest until the core in your heart settled so tests could be run to determine the stability.

You wish you could’ve followed his orders—and you were, very well—but a wyrmlord’s protofield suddenly appeared around your apartment, trapping everyone and you inside of it. Xavier was gone, and you were the only Hunter stronger enough to fight it; you did everything in your power to ensure no one would get hurt. The Wanderer was strong, and you knew if you went full out your evol could get out of control—not to mention the core in your heart would act up, and you'd go into cardiac arrest.

You look around yourself to the frightened people huddling together as a feeble way to protect themselves from the monstrous metaflux monster. If you weren’t here they’d all be dead within seconds. You made an oath, and you will honor it until all life leaves your body.

Drawing your sword, you slide your hand down the smooth, sharp blade. Tendrils of black coil out and wrap and wind in the air. I’m sorry, Zayne. Please don’t kill me for this. The wyrmlord flies at you and you encase yourself in a layer of darkness, of which it absorbs the impact. You spin the sword between your arms for momentum before stabbing it through the shield, and the darkness follows. It pierces into the wanderer, leaving it to cry out in pain. It's not a difficult fight—this is rather easy for you—well, it would be if your heart wasn't an issue. You're not fighting at 100% capacity. Right now, you're at 67%.

The wyrmlord lets out a shriek before sending spikes of stone and ice to come up from under you. You're forced to move, dashing to the side quickly. One of the spikes nicked you on the outside of your knee, sending it buckling. You trip to your hands and knees but force yourself to keep moving out of the range of the wanderer. With your back essentially turned to it, it takes that opportunity to break from your shadows to lunge at you.

~ There is no such thing as a break at Akso Hospital--not for Zayne, that is. The head of Cardiology, chief cardiac surgeon, and one of the most gifted doctors of his generation has little time to relax, other than what time is granted to him. Though, he seems to enjoy the business of his life. It's not often he complains about his packed schedule and lack of vacation time. He stays professional at all times, never letting his personal feelings mix with his professional ones. He treats all his patients with patience and respect but very rarely is he emotionally involved. The last person he felt personally involved in was your grandmother.

However, he wasn't sure if he could keep his personal feelings out of this particular situation. He heard the paging of a patient being wheeled into the ED but he wasn't the one paged. Walking down one of the many corridors connecting to the ED he caught a glimpse of the person being hauled to the OR and he does a double take. His feet stay rooted to the floor but his eyes stare at the parade of nurses and techs following the gurney. Is that. . .

There is no way for him to confirm it yet--he wasn't the one called for the case. Not able to stick in one place for a long time he forces himself to look away and finish walking to his destination, body feeling light and dizzy. Something inside of him told him to call you—something wasn't right, and he needed to be sure one way or another. When he got to a relatively quiet area, he took out his phone and navigated to your contact under his favorites. The line rang for an agonizingly long time until it finally went to voice mail, of which your voice delicately greeted him with a, 'Sup bitch, I'm either busy or dead. Say what you want now or say it to my gravestone, it depends'. Zayne slowly lowered the phone from his ear—you're supposed to be resting, there's no reason as to why you shouldn't be answering your phone. You always answer him when he calls or texts.

The pit in his stomach sinks deeper into his gut and doubt gnaws at him. Could the person that was just wheeled in for emergency surgery really be you? He'll have to wait until the OR is finished or wait until he's paged. He wishes to the gods it's not you, and if it is, he wishes you'll pull through whatever is wrong.

[ineffable-opinions]

Danmei tropes in My Stand-In

This is a quick introduction to some popular BL tropes that are fairly new to live-action BL:

wife chasing crematorium

substitute lover

transmigration

(Contains spoilers)

All corrections and critiques are welcome.

As you probably know My Stand-In is based on the danmei novel Professional Body Double. Specifically, it belongs to 188男团 (“188 group” where 188 cm is the height of every gong (seme) in the novel series). It is a shared universe of novels with characters from one featuring in another and almost all gong are very scummy (or “red-flag” so to speak) initially.

Trope #1: wife chasing crematorium

What 188 group novels all have in common is the trope popularly known among English-speaking fandom as “wife chasing crematorium”. This is a super-popular trope, not only in danmei.

origin 追妻火葬场 (zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; chasing his wife’s crematorium) derived from the longer phrase 傲娇一时爽，追妻火葬场 (àojiāo yīshí shuǎng, zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; Tsundere was on his high horse for a while, now chasing his wife’s crematorium.) Alternative form: 追夫火葬场 (zhuī fū huǒzàng chǎng; chasing husband’s crematorium) – usually involves scum shou (uke) chasing after his gong (seme) after initially abusing gong’s love.

The trope involves the love interest being initially cold or even cruel to the protagonist who is in love. This continues until all of that love gone. By then, the love interest would have come to his senses, eager to seek forgiveness and chase after the protagonist. In some cases, the love is already lost irrevocably, especially when the protagonist is dead – hence, literal crematorium. There are also works where the love interest is discarded all together and protagonist moves on to someone else. Rarely, there are works where the protagonist is the scum.   

In 188 group novels, this is how the basic structure of wife chasing crematorium:

Shou loves gong. Gong treats shou terribly.

Gong goes too far. Shou is fed-up and leaves gong, one way or other. Gong realises that he has been in love all along.

Gong regrets his action and chases after shou. Grovelling ensues.

Gong and shou gets back together. Gong dotes on shou and the couple face other challenges (family, villains) together, if any. Happy ending.

Fans are in it for the melodrama. They want to watch scummy gong to go too far, the relationship to break down and for the gong to grovel and make amends through various selfless deeds, until they reestablish the relationship and trust (as much as possible). Every one of those stories end with a happy ending with the gong endlessly doting on shou and the relationship having turned wholesome.

Trope #2: substitute lover

Other than the previous trope Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In involves the “substitute lover” trope.

Substitute lover trope involves, usually the gong, having a 白月光 (white moonlight): a person whom he loves a lot but can’t reach/touch. This is usually his first love and has a profound impact on him.

Aside: White moonlight in itself is a common trope. Both Vip Only and Sahara Sensei to Toki-kun used white moonlight trope to in a typical kishōtenketsu narrative structure.  

Since white moonlight is unattainable, gong finds a substitute lover.

The relationship between gong and substitute lover is usually just physical. This is because gong doesn’t plan to move on from white moonlight, instead stubbornly carries the torch. Gong doesn’t plan on betraying the pure feeling he have for his white moonlight by giving any of his love to anyone else. So, he tries to ensure that no love leaks out of the dam he has built to store his love for the white moonlight. This is, from gong’s POV, a kind of emotional fidelity which he extends to his white moonlight. A tribute of gong’s unshakable love for his white moonlight.

The substitute lover sometimes resembles white moonlight in some way –

in body – first ever live action BL (shonen-ai actually) adaptation Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) based of Hagio Moto’s The Heart of Thomas plays around with this trope, a lot. More recently, Playboyy sorta lampshaded it with the twins premise.

in spirit – a recent example is Love is Better the Second Time Around wherein prof. Takashi sleeps with his assistant Shiraishi Yuto because the assistant (or his desperation at least) reminded him of his white moonlight Miyata Akihiro.

Aside: There is only one live-action BL that actively subverted this trope: HIStory3: Make Our Days Count. The series introduced a doppelgänger of Yu XiGu (Xiang HaoTing’s white moonlight), a perfect candidate for substitute lover trope. But instead of pursuing it, they subverted the trope.

There are usually two outcomes to the substitute lover trope:

gong falls for substitute lover. In some cases, this involves white moonlight turning into rival or villain.

gong and his white moonlight get together. In this case, substitute lover turn into rival or get a lover of his own.

Itsuka no Kimi e, first ever live-action adaptation of a yaoi manga, employed substitute lover trope in one of its best executions. It is so brilliantly done that I can’t think of anything topping that, unless 4th volume (particularly the case-solving plot involving the photography club) of Takumi-kun series gets live action adaptation.

Trope #3: transmigration  

Basic premise of Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In revolves around transmigration of soul.

This too is a popular trope in BL. One of the most popular danmei Mo Dao Zu Shi and its adaptation The Untamed involves this trope.

Maybe I should say set-up instead of trope for this one. Transmigration involves soul of a character getting transferred to a body different from his own at the time of triggering event.

Own body, different time – either past or future. When past is involved, it is likely a do-over story where the protagonist gets to redo their life, change their love interest, make different life choices, take different course of action, etc.

Reincarnation – completely different lifetime but with retained memories of past-life/lives. Until We Meet Again; Choco Milk Shake (different lifetime for the pets)

Different body, present (near-present) time – character’s soul enters a different person’s body. The character gets involved in his previous circumstances but now in a different capacity. Revive (2016), that danmei adaptation no one ever talks about, went to town with this set-up.

Different body, different life – soul enters character in a book, game, simulation, etc. and would be primarily tasked to thrive there. One Room Angel (2023) explored a type of badro with this set-up.

With transmigration set-up, it is common to have one of these two:

Transmigrator retaining some connection to previous life.

Transmigrator’s previous life doesn’t matter anymore.

These Tropes in My Stand-In

These tropes are explored to varying degrees and with different levels of efficiency in Professional Body Double. In its live-action adaptation, there are a bunch of limitations. Primary one being the cultural difference – audience of a danmei novel are already familiar with these tropes to some extend but the live-action audience is one which has been primarily consuming sweet BL from Thailand that are inherently deficient in BL literacies.

Another is the khujin problem. Branded pairs are very important to Thai BL industry, so they cannot have two different actors playing before and after transmigration. (Actually, this was not impossible but there hasn’t been any precedent. Also, The Untamed enjoyed success by having Xiao Zhan play pre- and post-transmigration Wei WuXian. I wish they tried two khujin (UpPoom & UpWinner) one couple, since they chose to introduce Winner as pre-transmigration Joe. I don’t know, maybe that’s asking for fan wars and pitting actors against each other.) [In the tags, @deliriousblue reflects on what having two different actors could do with example from Cupid's Last Wish (a series I haven't watched) and its impact on audience on an emotional level. @myezblog has commented that Alchemy of Souls (another I haven't watched) is an excellent example of transmigration played two different actors.]

Third limitation is one that comes from medium – you can’t have long monologues in live-action. This deprives audience of the inner workings of character’s minds. Most of the motives, especially Ming’s trouble with warring desires of his heart, is inaccessible to the audience. @clairedaring have posted a deep-dive by Liltsu into some of that here.

Aside: Another interesting trope is giving watch (a taboo gift) – Chinese superstition rising from 送钟 (gifting watch) and 送终 (to bury the dead/attend funeral) being homophones. Taboo gift trope - white lilies associated with death and funerals - have appeared in Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) and Forbidden Love; both of these have substitute lover and death.

Ming’s characterization as a young master, coming from money and prestige that breeds arrogance and deficient in empathy (this post by @tungtung-thanawat is particularly enlightening) is a highlight of his cruelty as a 188 group gong.

While redemption of scum gong is what 188 group offers its audience, it is not necessarily what live-action audience would be wanting from the set-up. It is likely that a part of the audience was in fact looking for revenge plot.

As @lurkingshan highlighted in this post there is no exploration of identity (tied to Joe’s body pre- and post-transmigration) forth-coming precisely because this isn’t that kind of story and body is only treated as a temporary shelter for the soul for most part when transmigration trope is involved. Moreover, the novel is steeped in Confucian values. So, most of the resolution to what it means for Joe to have a mother now is dealt through his selfless gratitude and the filial piety he offers her.

The same is the case with his old body – a proper funeral for that body is what he owes his own parents for having given flesh and blood to the body which housed his soul previously. Remarkably, his own house figures prominently as an inheritance and as an enduring connection to his own parents – a bond more precious to that him than the bond he had to his old body. I am unsure how much of those core Confucian values they will retain in the live-action adaptation, given the cultural difference.

As @befuddledcinnamonroll discusses here, it is tied to cultural ideas of self, religious beliefs, etc.

@bengiyo has pointed out a weakness in execution of the transmigration trope over the substitute lover trope: the latter is a recurring and inverted trope in this series while the former plays out straight. Even though it is clear that coma!Joe is basically friendless and his career already dead (or that he has no career to speak of), it might have been better to hint at a lack of resolution and impending doom, and build anticipation by leaving clues about the troubles that coma!Joe has left behind. That way when the substitute lover trope peaks again, audience would feel as trapped as Joe.

This is where I think Revive (2016) did a better job with friends, colleagues, past-lovers and rivals especially with such similar set-ups: entertainment industry, classism, scum gong, and intersecting lives pre- and post-transmigration.

[lurkingshan]

My dear mutuals who love Professional Body Double: I understand you are very invested in this story, but if you would stop posting spoilers in an attempt to control reactions to My Stand In, I would appreciate it. The show has to do its own work and while I am interested in the adaptation choices, I want to be able to experience it as its own thing and engage with the story it’s telling separate from the original novel.

[cornyonmains]

Decided to read the novel for My Stand In, which is titled Professional Body Double. I'm a little disappointed with some of the changes the show made. Needless to say, novel spoilers ahead, though I won't touch on anything that hasn't happened in the show, as I'm only halfway through the book. Anyways, on to my first beef with the show.

One of the most informative aspects of Joe's character was changed. In the novel, Joe had also never been on bottom before, but that wasn't because he was holding out for someone special. At the beginning of the novel Joe is fielding offers for threesomes, the guy's been around the block and doesn't have a huge attachment to his virginity. Joe's character never bottomed because he'd quite simply never gotten the offer thanks to his more masculine looks. What makes this even more depressing is you find out that he thought it might have been his preference in the first place, but Joe being Joe, advocated about as well for himself during sex as he did anything else.

I think it was unwise to switch things up the way they did, because it really does explain a lot about why Joe was willing to suffer so many indignities to be with Ming. Joe asked for very little from the people in his life and didn't get it. Joe never really stood a chance when Ming came along and started giving him what he wanted.

Another thing I thought it was a shame the show didn't highlight is that in the novel, there's a fairly considerable age gap between Joe and Ming. Ming is 20 and Joe is 30. This actually offered a lot of explanation as to why Joe ignored a lot of Ming's red flags. He didn't ignore them, he just chalked a lot of it up to Ming being young and spoiled. But that's not to say the novel lets Joe off the hook.

Joe was, and I truly do lack a better word to describe this, completely servile to Ming. In the novels he waited on him hand and foot, created no real sexual boundaries with him, and preferred placating Ming's temper over challenging it. He was willing to meet any conditions for them to be together.

Ming's character progression is something I wish the show could have found a way to depict. Because during this time, Ming's development wasn't stagnant. What Joe had right, to an extent, was that Ming was young and still learning how to process his feelings. Towards the end of their first relationship, Ming had managed, for the most part, to regard Joe as completely distinct from Tong, and not just as a replacement. It's heavily implied he was in love with Joe, but just didn't know how to process these realizations that kept coming to him in piecemeal.

Ming liked the happy and relaxed environment he had with Joe in his condo, he was convinced nobody would ever be as sexually compatible with him as Joe, and he'd actually wanted to support him the first time Joe came home completely exhausted from set, but didn't say anything about it until he fucked up. Ming, who ran away to America as soon as he realized he was gay, did what Ming always did, he was quietly processing things, and was too young and stupid to give Joe a clue. He took for granted that Joe would be, in HIS words, obedient and docile.

The author of this, Shui Qian Qeng, is so good at writing gay toxicity it's stupid. It made me wonder if they're part of the community, but we don't speculate in this house, it's just a passing thought I had due to how nuanced the depiction of sexual confusion in this book is, particularly with Sol's character. Sexual confusion in BL tends to play very formulaically on screen. Existential crisis, a few heartfelt conversations, one cursed episode, a kiss at the end of the season, and everyone lives happily ever after. In the novel, Sol struggles for years, and is still processing his sexuality in an unhealthy way because the 'I'm straight, but only gay for this one guy in particular' trope so often used in BL is used in this novel, but to convey denial and sexual struggle. Upon Joe's death, Sol is still saying he's straight, but that Joe's the exception. This is treated with much deserved skepticism. Shui Qian Qeng, as a queer person who knows you're not reading this, bless you for that. I so desperately wish Sol's story would have been better adapted for the show.

To wrap things up on a lighter note, I also found out by reading this novel that tops and bottoms are referred to as ones and zeros in China. And my sheltered Midwestern ass was like, "Well that's rude." because one of them was a zero. Then I was like, "Well why would someone refer to themselves as a zero? That's not healthy." Then I started thinking about what the numbers looked like, 0 and 1, and was like, "Oh." It was an emotional rollercoaster.

[becauseimanicequeen]

A couple of days ago, I decided to start reading Professional Body Double, which My Stand-In is based on. My aim was/is to read the chapters for each episode that's released (because I still don't want spoilers).

Other stuff got in the way, though, but I finished reading ch 20 last night (which is just around the end of the 2nd episode since the series seems to include 10 ch in each ep so far).

Anyway, I only have one comment at this point...

Seeing how annoying Lan Xi Rong (the character Sol is based on) is in the novel and how shitty he treated Zhou Xiang (Joe) in the past (I won't spoil it for those who haven't read it), I'm wondering why they "sanitized" him a bit in the series (at least thus far).

Maybe it would've been too much to have yet another annoying/assholish character in the series? Or perhaps they just omitted that piece of backstory because it won't matter to the story MSI wants to tell?

With that said, though, I do still feel like Lan Xi Rong's general vibe is translated well into Sol because I've felt iffy about Sol since the start, ever since he implied that he came back to Thailand because he craved the safety of Joe (compared to everyone else who approached Sol to take advantage of him). He also shows up around Joe all the time (dare I say he's feeling a bit stalker-ish?) so there is an annoying side to Sol as well.

I know they're not completely the same character (since adaptations are only adaptations, even though MSI is quite true to PBD as far as I've watched and read) so Sol might not end up being as annoying and shitty as Lan Xi Rong is (at least as far as I've come in the novel at the moment). But I'm still glad my intuition works on fictional characters as well (lol).

Anyway... I'm hoping to read the remaining chapters (up until where the 4th episode of MSI ended) before the 5th episode is released tomorrow. And then I'll read the novel in tandem with what happens in the episodes (unless I start to see bigger changes in MSI compared to the source material and put a pause on the novel to avoid spoilers/enjoy the series as is).

[zhouxiangs]

i saw that you're currently reading my stand-in novel but you're not really spoiling anything. how are you finding it so far if i may ask? is it as angsty as people say it is?

(i waited until the end of the day to answer this because as i thought i've already finished the novel, so much for self-restraint lol also sorry this got a bit long... oops?)

i enjoyed it a lot! and it made me get over my reading slump, so i will even excuse it getting into some tropes i'm not particularly fond of at the end. it got cheesy…er, and not even in a way i like. amazingly, that didn't make me like it any less.

from the synopsis of the series and the tags in novel updates (and i only skimmed those because i didn't want to get spoiled) i had a pretty good idea of what the novel was going to be like, which is why i decided not to really liveblog since, transmigration aside, i'd say it's a pretty straightforward story. i could be persuaded to make a recap if there's interest though, since there's still over three weeks left until the series starts airing and i'm probably going to go over everything again and take notes anyway...

and oh, is it angsty! the whole thing hinges on zhou xiang (joe) being a sweet angel baby and yan mingxiu (ming) being a fucking idiot, and it's pretty much what you can expect from any dogblood/makjang with the scum ml, misunderstandings, heartbreak, regrets, etc. i have to say i'm not usually a fan of the misunderstanding trope bc i tend to find it annoying, but as with most tropes i don't particularly enjoy it's because of the way i often see it done. here it was painful for everyone involved, so i really liked it. also, please keep in mind that i'm a huge fan of big character development and characters redeeming themselves, so. there's that. wink wonk. (i've been reading some reviews and think for some people it may be best to know what kind of story this is before going in, other than because of triggers–which, very important if you need them, at least in the novel–because of the whole. scum ml more than anything lol even though yan mingxiu is not that scummy really!)

i love my stories character-driven, so having them being this well fleshed out and compelling was a joy, and being able to see so clearly what both zhou xiang and yan mingxiu were thinking and feeling, sometimes a lot earlier than they themselves could (please bl gods keep at least some of the internal monologue in the series, i am begging), was soooooo ugh. you're supposed to hate yan mingxiu allegedly but i just couldn't, not even in his scum era, because he was so obvious and so oblivious and so set in his own ideas he kept gaslighting himself into not noticing things. this could have gotten frustrating pretty easily, but again, everything feed into the delicious, delicious suffering. that being said, and because it doesn't seem to be a popular opinion... i think it's important to empathise with both of them, or at least sympathise, for maximum enjoyment of all that angst. you cannot cry over yan mingxiu's pain if you want him to get hit by a bus.

oh and the relationships (not only the cp's, though their progression is really good) are very important in this story, which is something i hope we get to see more of in the series because i ended up missing certain side characters in the later chapters. not tan yin though, i hope that fuck ass didn't make it into the series. how is a character so annoying while being in maybe six scenes total.

i can't say if it's good or not but it was extremely enjoyable, zhou xiang is my sweet darling angel baby, yan mingxiu is okay too (if you see me in the trenches defending him in about a month…), and i can't believe i am now, somehow, even more excited for my stand-in.

[fortpeat]

INFO ABOUT THE SERIES FROM THE INTERVIEWS

Its going to about cool manly southern man who is met with a writer named Tong Rak who went to south for work, certain situations happened , they got to stay together and he was able to bring himself back to Bangkok. - Mame

Its an opportunity for them to show the beauty of Thai beaches coz Thai beaches are very beautiful.

The director is the same as Lita

A series that is fully about the beaches and oceans are not often made so if they could make it as beautiful as they want to and have the actors come in as a component it can be very beautiful. - Neti (Director)

Based of Mame's "crazy" script writing there has to be a lot of planning to prepare for the shoot of this series.

Since the majority will be based on ocean side there will be double preparation - controlling the production on a boat is gonna be hard. there would be a scene where one person will be in the water and another on the boat. - Neti

Currently they are in the process of looking at at he location and technique inspections. - Neti

The cast has to do additional workshop like scuba diving. Both of them would have scenes underwater especially Fort (Mahasamut) which means ocean and loves the ocean, seas etc. he is a professional diver. - Mame

Since Mahasamut is a guide and a diving instructor as well Fort has to learn diving and deep scuba diving as he has no prior experience. He has to get to the professional level almost. - Fort

Characters introduction

Fort - Mahasamut

Peat - Tong Rak

Aya - Kai Mook

Chanya - Vivi

Series Prep - They are preparing their bodies and doing workshop as well

Well the island is hot and the beach is hot so yes Fort has to show off his body a little bit. He can't wear clothes that are too tight. - Fort

Peat has to prep his body as well but he can still eat what he want to. for the other workshop he has to learn scuba diving but not as extensive as Fort. - Peat

As a writer he is prepping to learn more about that world like hobbies quirks etc - Peat

Kai Mook is Tong Rak's assistant and junior, she id the one who deal with his schedule and work , there would story about her relationship with Vivi, secretly loving her etc - Aya

Vivi is Tong Rak's best friend and an actor. she is a confident person who loves to tease Kai Mook - Chanya

There's an equal level of flirtiness between Mahasamut and Tong Rak. both characters would be showing off their charms at different times in different situations - Peat

Question - "Is it gonna be spicy ???"

Everyone - "YES"

Fort - "You can call me on the phone and one call is all it takes to go there immediately."

(Me - WHAT DOES THAT MEANNN ?!!! 👀👀 )

Question - "How hot would the love scenes be??"

Peat - "I think the sea is hot but the storyline in Love Sea is hotter than the weather."

Fort - "I think it has to do with the characters personality since - that would be a spoiler. Lets just say, due to the characters personality each scene changes accordingly."

Mame - "You might see something by the beach"

(Me -OHHH 🫠🫠🫠 )

Peat in another another interview - The story begins From Tong Rak who is lonely because his friends go for honeymoon trip. He is sent to the island to relax.

So my question - Is Tong Rak going to the Island for his work related like Mame said or because he is lonely and to relax like Peat said

Cr. @/thisis153cm

so I did a bit of searching on southern Thailand Islands and seas and this is just the idea and I AM ABSOLUTELY IN LOVE 🥹🥹😍😍😍

One part of me wants the series now and the wait has been a torture but the other rationale part of me can wait coz with locations that are as beautiful as this please take your time and do justice with this show.

Interview Link 🔗 😁

[clairedaring]

rereading PBD every week as I'm giffing and keep rewatching the episode really maximize my full brainrot with MSI. one of my favorite excerpts from the adapted chapters this week is probably joe's inner thoughts when he made the devil's deal with ming.

“How long do you want me to be with you?” “I don’t know,” [Ming] responded straightforwardly. “I need a deadline,” [Joe] smiled sarcastically. “A condo and cash, how long do you think I’m willing to have sex with you?” [Ming] responded coldly, “One year is fine.” “A year it is.” [Joe] carefully stuffed the check into his pocket, then turned and leave. After he walked downstairs, he stared up at this more than 30 stories high apartment building, so depressing, it’s indescribable. He had only been in there for half an hour and it solved the crisis that would have taken him half a lifetime of hard work…but he sold himself. However, this business transaction is considered a good deal. [Joe] thought of [Ing]’s yellow tinted expression, her life that seems to be withering away at any time is his biggest concern at the moment. He patted the check in his pocket and laughed at himself. Just a matter of having sex with someone…it’s really not that big a deal. This deal is worth it… very much worth it.

i know many are lamenting about how joe doesn't want to be saved but i think this is his way of saving himself. with full awareness that he's just a comfort relief for ming, he's walking out of this deal with a condo and money to help his mom. moreover, i've always felt like subconciously this was joe's way of facing his subdued feelings, to completely get over ming, instead of running away to death like he did last time.

[poomphuripan]

Some of Producer Yuan's commentary on Ming and his family scene in Episode 2

(translation courtesy of my dear friend @saltymarbles on twitter)

As for the mom, I believe that many people in their teenage years like to think that their parents are like dictators, unwilling to listen. But parents are also thinking of what to they should do that is the best frequently. For instance, choosing a lady is really out of well wishes. But often, we prefer to communicate with those who are close with us. With a bad attitude, we might feel guilty afterwards but it’s still hard to apologise.

I believe that Ming loves his family otherwise he wouldn’t be considerate towards his older sister, keeping to himself and fleeing abroad. But probably because of several reasons, he becomes a person who is unable to communicate his feelings with people he loves — with Joe, his mom. You can see it from the way he talks with his older sister in EP 2 that Ming really isn’t just a selfish person.

Before starting the chapter, we consulted about our own psychiatrist. There is a behavioural description of a possible personality disorder. Sometimes small things in our childhood, things that happen in our development can cause the way we express ourselves. As such, it is a common disease that we encounter often, causing neglect communicating our feelings. Going to seek out a psychiatrist should be a normal thing. (t/n: P'Yuan might be referring to Ming to having personality disorder which makes it hard for him to communicate his feelings with his family)

A few people mentioned about the line about family. Actually, it was intentional that the female character is a positive character, changed to be more modern. Letting us feel that Ming doesn’t have such a mysterious life. To explain why Ming didn’t dare to tell anyone about liking Tong, it's because of his love towards his family. Later on, the familial relationship will have an impact on everything.

Having Shu play May, I like it a lot. She has an expensive kind of beauty which is a match for the older sister of Ming. If you observe carefully, you can see that the appearance of the three siblings are very similar. This was something highly intentional during the casting — they needed to be similar.