#rome's ramblings

[romanomen]

Get pinecone pig'd, idiot

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

Statistics of Apollo's Lovers

I was wondering just how unfortunate of a love-life our boy Apollo had, so - as one does - I did the research, math, and writing of said love-life.

such is the life of an adhd teen :)

In total, there are 59 people on this list. I have them separated into eight groups; Immortal, Immortal & Rejected, Lived, Died, Rejected & Died, Rejected & Cursed, Rejected & Lived, and who were Rejected by Apollo

Disclaimer: I am not a historian nor an expert in Greek Mythology, I am just a very invested nerd in Mythology, and in Apollo's mythology in general, and got curious about what his rap sheet actually looks like.

Sidenote: There will be some "lovers" not on this list. Reasons being;

No actual literary sources behind them

Said literary sources are dubious at best

Not enough information is given about the nature of their relationship to make an accurate take

So if somebody isn't on this list, it's because of one of those three reasons. Although there is still a chance I missed somebody! :)

Also, no RRverse lovers include in this list. Sorry my fellow ToA fans.

(Edited 08/15/24 - ALL SECTIONS SOURCED)

Let's begin! :D

Immortal Lovers

Calliope: muse of epic poetry. Mother of Hymenaios and Ialemus (Pindar's 3rd Threnos) by Apollo.

Clio: muse of history

Erato: muse of love poetry

Euterpe: muse of music

Polyhymnia: muse of hymns/sacred poetry

Melpomene: muse of tragedy

Thalia: muse of comedy. Mother of the Corybantes (The Bibliotheca by Pseudo-Apollodorus) by Apollo.

Terpsichore: muse of dance

Urania: muse of astronomy

Boreas: the North Wind. The Boreads called Apollo "beloved of our sire" in Apollonius of Rhodes's Argonautica.

10 lovers total here.

9 Female, 1 Male

Immortal & Rejected

Hestia: goddess of the Hearth (Hymn to Aphrodite)

1 Interest. Female.

Lovers Who Lived:

Branchus: mortal shepherd, gifted prophecy (Conon's Narrations 33 & Callimachus's Iambus)

Rhoeo: mortal princess, eventually married an apprentice of Apollo (Diodorus Siculus's Bibliotheca historica 5.62 and Tzetzes on Lycophron 570)

Ourea: demigod daughter of Poseidon, dated Apollo during his punishment with Laomedon; had a son named Ileus, after the city of Troy (Hesiod's Catalogues of Women Fragment 83)

Evadne: nymph daughter of Poseidon, Apollo sent Eileithyia & (in some texts) the Fates to aid in their son's birth (Pindar's Olympian Ode 6)

Thero: great-granddaughter of Heracles, described as "beautiful as moonbeams" (Pausanias's Description of Greece 9)

Cyrene: mortal princess-turned-nymph queen, kick-ass lion wrangler, and mother of two of Apollo's sons - Aristaeus (a god) and Idmon (powerful seer) (Pindar's Pythian Ode 9.6 ff. and Nonnus's Dionysiaca and Callimachus's Hymn to Apollo 85)

Admetus: mortal king, took great care of Apollo during his second punishment, Apollo wingmanned him for Alcestis's hand - basically Apollo doted on him <3 (Callimachus's Hymn II to Apollo and Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.9.15 and Hyginus's Fabulae 50–51, and also written about by Ovid and Servius)

Hecuba: queen of Troy, together they had Troilus.

It was foretold that if Troilus lived to adulthood, Troy wouldn't fall - unfortunately, Achilles murdered Troilus in Apollo's temple. When the Achaeans burned Troy down, Apollo rescued Hecuba and brought her to safety in Lycia. (Stesichorus's Fr.108)

Hyrie/Thyrie: mortal. mothered a son by Apollo. Their son, Cycnus, attempted to kill himself after some shenanigans and his mother attempted the same. Apollo turned them into swans to save their lives. (Antoninus Liberalis's Metamorphoses 12 and Ovid's Metamorphoses 7.350)

Dryope: mortal. had a son named Amphissus with Apollo, who was a snake at the time. Later turned into a lotus flower, but it had nothing to do with Apollo so she's still on this list. (noncon; written by Ovid in Metamorphoses 8 CE/AD and later by Antoninus Liberalis in his own Metamorphoses sometime between 100-300 CE/AD)

Creusa: mortal queen. had a son named Ion with Apollo (Euripides's Ion). Please check out @my-name-is-apollo's post for more details because they make some good points about what's considered "rape" in Ancient Greece. I expand on this further at the end of the post.

Melia: Oceanid nymph. Had a son w/h Apollo named Tenerus. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.10.5–6)

Melia was said to be kidnapped, and her brother found her with Apollo. He set fire to Apollo's temple in an effort to get her back, but was killed. Melia and Apollo had two kids - but here's the interesting part. Melia was highly worshiped in Thebes, where her brother found her. She was an incredibly important figure in Thebes, especially when connected with Apollo. She and Apollo were essentially the parents of Thebes.

As I read over their story, it sounded like (to me, at least. it's okay if you think otherwise!) that Melia just absconded/eloped with Apollo.

Was kidnapping an equivalent to assault back then? Perhaps. But it's still debated on whenever or not that's true. However, one thing I've noticed reading up on these myths is that when Apollo does do something unsavory, the text says so.

It never says anything about Apollo doing anything to Melia. Her father and brother believe she was kidnapped, but, like mentioned previously, it seems far much more likely that she just ran off with her boyfriend or something.

But that's just my interpretation.

Moving on! :)

Iapis: a favorite lover. Apollo wanted to teach him prophecy, the lyre, ect. but Iapis just wanted to heal :) so Apollo taught him healing :) (Smith 1873, s.v. Iapis)

Aethusa: daughter of Poseidon & the Pleiad Alcyone. Mother of Linus and Eleuther. She is the great-great grandmother of Orpheus. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 3.10.1 and Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.20.2 and Suida, s.v. Homer's Of the Origin of Homer and Hesiod and their Contest, Fragment 1.314)

Acacallis: daughter of King Minos. there's a lot of variation on whether or not she had kids with Hermes or Apollo. Some say she had a kid with each. (Stephanus of Byzantium, s.v. Kydōnia (Κυδωνία and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 4.1492)

Chrysothemis: nymph queen who won the oldest contest of the Pythian Games - the singing of a hymn to Apollo. She had three daughters, and one of them is said to be Apollo's. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 10.7.2 and Hyginus's De Astronomica 2.25)

Corycia: naiad. had a son with Apollo. the Corycian Cave north of Delphi is named after her (Hyginus's Fabulae 161)

Leuconoe (also Choine or Philonis): daughter of Eosphorus, god of the planet Venus, and mother of the bard Philammon. (Hyginus's Fabulae 161)

Melaena (also Thyia or Kelaino): mother of Delphos, member of prophetic Thriae of Delphi. Priestess of Dionysus. (Herodotus's Histories 7.178.1)

Othreis: mothered Phager by Apollo, and later Meliteus by Zeus. (Antoninus Liberalis's Metamorphoses 13)

Stilbe: mother of Lapithus and Aineus by Apollo. (Diodorus Siculus's Library of History 4.69.1 and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 1.40 and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 1.948)

Syllis (possible same as Hyllis, granddaughter of Heracles): mothered Zeuxippus by Apollo. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 2.6.7)

Amphissa: Apollo seduced her in the form of a shepherd. They had a son named Agreus. (Ovid's Metamorphoses 6.103 and Hyginus's Fabulae 161)

(hey, has anybody else noticed that 'Apollo disguising himself' seems to only be a thing in Roman literature?)

Areia (or Deione): had a son named Miletus. Hid him in some smilax. Her father found him and named him. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 3.1.2)

Arsinoe: she and Apollo had a daughter named Eriopis. (Hesiod's Ehoiai 63 and Scholia ad Pindar's Pythian Ode 3.14)

Queen of Orkhomenos (no name is given): Mother of Trophonius (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.37.5)

(my fellow ToA fans will recognize that name haha).

Hypermnestra: Either Apollo or her husband fathered her son Amphiaraus. (Hyginus's Fabulae 70)

(sidenote: @literallyjusttoa suggested that Apollo was dating both Hypermnestra and Oikles, and I, personally, like that headcannon)

Manto: Daughter of Tiresias. Apollo made her a priestess of Delphi. They had a son named Mopsus. When Apollo sent her to found an oracle elsewhere, he told her to marry the first man she saw outside of Delphi. That man turned out to be Rhacius, who brought her to Claros, where she founded the oracle of Apollo Clarios. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca E6. 3)

Later, another man named Lampus attempted to assault her, but was killed by Apollo. She is also said to be a priestess who warned Niobe not to insult Leto, and to ask for forgiveness. Niobe did not. (Statius's Thebaid 7 and Ovid's Metamorphoses 6)

(Dante's Inferno places her in the eighth circle of hell, and let me just say- what the FUCK Dante! What did Manto ever do to you, huh??!! Don't do my girl dirty!!)

Parthenope: granddaughter of a river god. Mothered Lycomedes by Apollo (Pausanius's Descriptions of Greece 4.1)

Phthia: prophetess. called "beloved of Apollo". Mother three kings by him; Dorus, Laodocus, & Polypoetes (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.7.6)

Procleia: Mother of Tenes, son of Apollo, who was killed by Achilles before the Trojan War. Daughter of King Laomedon, king of Troy. (Apollodorus's Epitome 3. 26)

Helenus: prince of Troy. Received from Apollo an ivory bow which he used to wound Achilles in the hand. (Photius's 'Bibliotheca excerpts')

Hippolytus of Sicyon: called "beloved of Apollo" in Plutarch's Life of Numa. I don't think this guy is the same as the Hippolytus, son of Zeuxippus (son of Apollo), king of Sicyon Pausanias talks about in his Description of Greece. That would be a little weird taking the whole family tree into account - though it's never stopped other gods before. *shrug*

Psamathe: nereid, said to be the personification of the sand of the sea-shore. (Conon's Narrationes 19)

She and Apollo were lovers, but never had any kids. When another man assaulted her, she had a son and abandoned him.

(He was found by some shepherds dw - wait, he was then torn apart by dogs. Nevermind,)

Back to her, her father ordered for her to be executed and Apollo avenged her death by sending a plague onto Argos and refused to stop it until Psamathe and Phocus/Linus (her son) were properly given honors.

(I really like how even though Linus isn't Apollo's kid, and that Psamathe wanted nothing to do with the kid, Apollo still considered him worth avenging too <3 )

Okay, in a previous incarnation of this post, I said there was a version where she is raped by Apollo...however, I can't find any sources to back it up😅 Even her wiki page doesn't mention rape, and Theoi's excerpt of Paunasias's Descriptions of Greece about her doesn't either.

So where did I hear about this supposed version? (Don't shoot)

Youtube. A youtube video about Apollo. Yeah...

Lesson, kids! Don't trust youtube videos on mythology! Yes, even if they dedicated lots of time to it! They can still get things wrong! In fact, don't even take my word for it! Do your own research <3

Alright. 34 lovers here.

5 Male. 29 Female.

33 are 100% consensual. Creusa is questionable, depending on who's translating/which tradition you go with.

Lovers Who Died:

Hyacinthus*: mortal prince. we all know this one, right? Right? one and only true love turned into flower (okay that's my bias speaking but AM I WRONG?) (Plutarch's Life of Numa, 4.5; Philostratus the younger's Imagines; Pseudo-Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.3.3; Ovid's Metamorphoses 10.162–219; Bion's Poems 11; and various pieces of art)

Cyparissus: mortal. his DEER DIED and he asked Apollo to let him MOURN FOREVER so he was turned into a cypress tree (Ovid's Metamorphoses X 106ff)

Coronis: mortal princess. cheated on Apollo w/h Ischys, who in Fabulae was killed by Zeus. mother of Asclepius. killed by Artemis. (Pindar's Pythian Odes 3.5; Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 2.26.6; Hyginus's Fabulae 202; Ovid's Metamorphoses 2.536 and 2.596; Hyginus's De Astronomica 2.40; Isyllus's Hymn to Asclepius 128.37 ff.)

There is another version of Asclepius's birth given by Pausanias in Descriptions of Greece 2.26.1-7, where Coronis exposes him on a mountain and Apollo takes him in.

Adonis: yes, THAT Adonis. he's in this category because. well. he died. rip (Ptolemy Hephaestion's New History Book 5)

Phorbas: Okay so Apollo's lover Phorbas and another Phorbas sometimes get mashed together so this is what I was able to gather.

Plutarch's Life of Numa 4.5 and Hyginus's De Astronomia 2.14.5 cites Phorbas as Apollo's lover. The other Phorbas is said to be a rival to Apollo in the Homeric Hymn to Apollo. Personally, I separate the two because it makes more sense with Phorbas the lover's overall story.

Here it is: The island of Rhodes fell victim to a plague of dragons or serpents, and the oracle said to summon Phorbas for help. He defeated the infestation, and after he died, Apollo asked Zeus to place him in the stars, and so Phorbas became the constellation Serpentarius, also known more widely as Ophiuchus (a man holding a serpent).

FORGET ORION AND HIS ONE-OFF MENTION OF BEING DIANA'S LOVER HERE IS A CONSTELLATION TRAGIC LOVE STORY!!!!!

(*Hyacinthus was resurrected, as celebrated in the Hyacinthia festival in Sparta. Nonnus's Dionysiaca 19.102 and Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 3.19.4 supports this belief as well.)

5 lovers.

4 Male. 1 Female. All consensual.

Sidenote: QUIT BURYING THE GAYS GREECE!!!!

Love-Interests Who Rejected & Died:

Daphne: do i nEED to say anything? Nymph. turned into tree to escape.

Daphne and Apollo actually go back a bit. Their story was used to explain why the laurel was so sacred to Apollo. It's in Delphi, Branchus planted laurel trees around the temple he built to Apollo, the laurel was even sacred to Apollo's historical forebearer Apulu, an Etruscan god! (I have sources to back this up :3 along with an Essay.)

Apollo & Daphne first originate from Phylarchus, but we do not have any of his work :( It's been lost to history...a moment of silence RIP. He was a contemporary in the 3rd century BC/BCE (first day of 300 BC/BCE and last day of 201 BC/BCE).

He was, however, cited as a source in Parthenius's Erotica Pathemata, written sometime in the 1 century AD/CE (sometime between 66 BC/BCE and the author's death in 14 AD/CE).

Then they show up again in Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece, written between 150 AD/CE and 170 AD/CE.

Hyginus wrote his Fabulae sometime before Ovid's because it's widely criticized to be his earliest work and Ovid wrote his Metamorphoses in 8 AD/CE.

The first two versions are roughly the same, and Ovid's shares similarities with the first in only the ending. Hyginus is basically like Ovid's but without Eros.

So in publication order, it's; Erotica Pathemata, Fabulae, Metamorphoses, then Descrip. of Greece.

In Erotica Pathemata, Daphne is the daughter of Amyclas and is being courted by Leucippus. She is not interested in any sort of romance. Leucippus disguises himself as a girl to get close to her, but his ruse is revealed when Apollo nudges Daphne and her attendants into taking a bath in the river. Leucippus is consequently killed.

Apollo then becomes interested and Daphne runs away, imploring Zeus that "she might be translated away from mortal sight", and is transformed into the laurel tree.

In Fabulae, Daphne's story is a bit more familiar. She's the daughter of Peneus, the river god, and Gaea is the one who transforms her into a laurel tree.

In Metamorphoses, Eros's is added to the story and is the reason why Apollo is so enamored and Daphne is so repulsed. (I would just like to say that in this version, it was 100% nonconsensual for them! And I don't mean with rape- Apollo never touches Daphne in any of these version. What I mean here is that Eros maliciously makes Apollo chase down a woman and makes sure Daphne would be repulsed by him. That is noncon behavior there on both sides.)

In Descriptions of Greece 10.7.8, Daphne is the daughter of Ladon and her and Apollo are only connected by why of why the laurel crown is the victory prize of the Pythian Games. However, in Descriptions of Greece 8.20.2-8.20.4, Daphne and Leucippus make an appearance here too, but Apollo is not the reason why they stop to take a swim and his ruse is revealed, resulting in his death.

Castalia: Nymph. turned into spring to escape.

First things first, Castalia was used to explain the existence of the Castalian Spring in Delphi. However, in the Homeric Hymn to Apollo, the spring is already there when Apollo was born. So there's that to consider first.

Anyway, to escape Apollo's advances, Castalia transforms herself into a spring. (Lactantius Placidus's On Statius's Thebaid 1.698. This was written between Lactantius's lifespan of c. 350 – c. 400 AD/CE, placing it firmly in Roman times.)

2 Interests.

2 Female.

Love-Interests Who Rejected & Cursed

Cassandra: mortal princess. Received the gift of prophecy from Apollo. Due to a broken oath, she was then cursed. (Aeschylus's Agamemnon)

It is only in Roman-era tellings where Cassandra is cursed for not sleeping with Apollo, and there was no oath made (Hyginus & Pseudo-Apollodorus). In Agamemnon, it was done so because of the broken oath- not the refusing to sleep with Apollo thing.

The version where she gains prophetic abilities by way of a snake licking her ears is not part of Greco-Roman literature, but rather by an American poet.

Nevertheless, even after the curse Cassandra still loved Apollo, and called him "god most dear to me" in Eurpides's play The Trojan Women.

1 Interests.

1 Female.

Lover-Interests Who Rejected & Lived

Sinope: mortal. there are two different version of her myth.

In Diodorus Siculus's Library of History 4.72.2 and Corinna's Frag. 654, Apollo "seizes" her and they have a son named Syrus.

In Apollonius's Argonautica  2.946-951 and Valerius Flaccus's Argonautica 5.109, it is Zeus who abducts her, but she gets him to promise her anything and requests to remain a virgin. He obliges. Later, Apollo and the river Halys both try to charm her, but fall for the same trick.

Library of History was written between 60-30 BC/BCE, Apollonius's Argonautica between 300 BC/BCE and 201 BC/BCE, and Valerius Flaccus's Argonautica between 70-96 AD/CE, making Apollonius's version the oldest and Valerius Flaccus's the youngest.

Marpessa: mortal princess, granddaughter of Ares. Idas, son of Poseidon, kidnapped her and Apollo caught up to them. Zeus had Marpessa chose between them, and she chose Idas, reasoning that she would eventually grow old and Apollo would tire of her. (Homer's The Iliad, 9.557 and Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.7.8–9)

Bolina: mortal. Apollo approached her and she flung herself off a cliff. He turned her into a nymph to save her life. (Pausanias's Description of Greece 7.23.4)

Ocroe/Okyrrhoe: nymph and daughter of a river god. asked a boatman to take her home after Apollo approached her. Apollo ended up turning the boat to stone and the seafarer into a fish. (Athenaeus's The Deipnosophists 7.283 E [citing The Founding of Naucratis by Apollonius Rhodius]. The Deipnosophists was written in the early 3rd century AD, between 201 AD and 300 AD)

Sibyl of Cumae: mortal seer. promised to date Apollo if she was given longevity as long as the amount of sand in her hand. he did, but she refused him. (Ovid's Metamorphoses 14)

5 Interests. All female.

Okyrrhoe's story is the only one with any iffy stuff, although, when something iffy does occur, the text usually says so outright.

Rejected by Apollo:

Clytie*: Oceanid nymph. turned into a heliotrope to gaze at the sun forever after the rejection.

1 Advance. Female.

(*Clytie's story was originally about her affection for Helios. [Ovid's Metamorphoses 4.192–270; Ovid used Greek sources about the etymology of the names involved, meaning Clytie and Helios go back to Greek times] As Apollo got superimposed over Helios's myths, people have assumed it is he who is the sun god in her myth and not Helios.)

In Conclusion...

59 people total, and 33 of them have Roman-Era roots with (as far as I known!! Don't take my word as gospel truth!!) no relation to Greece except by way of shared mythology.

Here's the list:

Rhoeo

Thero

Hyrie/Thyrie

Dryope

Melia

Aethusa

Acacallis

Chrysothemis

Corycia

Choine

Thyia

Othreis

Stilbe

Syllis

Amphissa

Areia

Queen of Orkhomenos

Hypermnestra

Manto

Parthenope

Phthia

Procleia

Helenus

Hippolytus of Sicyon

Psamathe

Cyparissus

Adonis

Phorbas

Castalia

Sinope

Bolina

Ocroe/Okyrrhoe

Sibyl of Cumae

Meaning, 56%- and really, it's more like 57%, because Clytie is not Apollo's lover at all- of the lovers listed on this post are not entirely Greek in origin (AS FAR AS I KNOW-)! That does not mean ofc that you have to ignore them. I, for one, really like the story of Rhoeo, and Manto, and Psamethe- I find their myths sweet (Rhoeo & Manto) and bittersweet (Psamethe).

Let's get to the calculations now, yeah?

59 people total (Includes Clytie)

48 Women (81%). 11 Men (19%).

19% were Immortal (Including Lovers & Rejected)

68% Lived (Including Lovers & Cursed & Rejected)

14% Died (Including Lovers & Rejected)

1% were Cursed

2% were Rejected by him

58 people total (Not Including Clytie)

47 Women (81%). 11 Men (19%).

19% were Immortal

69% Lived (Lovers & & Cursed & Rejected)

12% Died (Lovers & Rejected)

in that 12%, one was apotheosized - Hyacinthus.

Meaning 10% died permanently, while 2% were resurrected.

2% were Cursed

0% were Rejected by him

Additionally, I left off three male lovers and two female lovers - Atymnius, Leucates, Cinyras, Hecate, & Acantha.

Atymnius has no references to being Apollo's lover, only to Zeus's son Sarpedon.

Leucates is another male "lover" left off the rack - apparently he jumped off a cliff to avoid Apollo, but I couldn't find any mythological text to account for it- and no, OSP's wiki page is not a reliable source. There is a cliff named similarly to him where Aphrodite went (by Apollo's advice) to rid herself of her longing for Adonis after his death. Also Zeus uses it to rid himself of his love for Hera before he...well, commits adultery again.

Cinyras was a priest of Aphrodite on the island of Cyprus. He was also the island's king. Pindar calls him "beloved of Apollo" in his Pythian Ode. However, looking further into Cinyras's life throws a bit of a wrench into it. He's also cited to be a challenger to Apollo's skill, and either Apollo or Mars (Ares) kills him for his hubris.

(honestly, I kinda like the idea that Mars went into Big Brother Mode)

I did consider leaving him on the list, since technically you could argue it was a romance-gone-bad, but among every other source Cinyras is mentioned in, Pindar's the only one who puts a romantic label on him and Apollo.

Hecate, the goddess of magic and crossroads, is said to be the mother of Scylla (like, the sea-monster) by Apollo, but Scylla's parentage is one of those "no specific parents" ones, so I left her off the list.

Acantha has absolutely no classical references. There's a plant like her name, but she's made-up, so she doesn't count.

(Of course, I could be wrong about any of these. Again, I'm not an expert.)

With all this in mind, this means Apollo's love life actually isn't as tragic as media portrays it, and he isn't as bad as Zeus or Poseidon in the nonconsensual area.

Does he still have those kinds of myths? Yes, with Dryope and Creusa; though, we can discount Creusa because;

1) Depends on who's translating it; and

2) Ion is given different parentage in the Bibliotheca, which yes, came much after Ion, however Xuthus was traditionally considered to be Ion's father rather than Apollo. This means there was probably a different oral tradition on Ion's parentage that just wasn't written down as early as Euripides's was- in fact, it may even just be an invention of Euripides's.

(and honestly Apollo's characterization in Ion just doesn't quite match up with the rest of his appearances in the wider myths (in my opinion, at least))

So that leaves us with just Dryope, who comes from Ovid, a Roman poet, and Antoninus Liberalis, a late Greek one.

Now I'm not saying we should throw her out because of Ovid's whole "wrote the gods even more terribly to criticize Augustus" thing, but it is something to keep in mind. Political mechanics have been used to change myths before, and this is certainly one example of it.

Additionally, I have seen many people discard Dionysus's rapes in the Dionysiaca because of how late it was written, so this one can be given similar treatment if one choses too because of just how late Ovid and Antoninus Liberalis's work was.

You can, in fact, pick and chose if you wish, especially if it'll increase your enjoyment of literature. That's certainly what I do :)

So overall, I'd say Apollo has a rather clean relationship past. He's doing pretty damn good.

Also, I think we should all take note that even if Apollo had noncon myths, that doesn't reflect on the actual god. The Ancient Greeks did not see the myths as "canon" to their gods- in fact, some were not happy with the myths showing the gods in such a light.

That's something else to keep in mind. The gods of the myths are not the gods of Greece, and are more like parables or fables for the Ancient Greeks I'd say. Lessons on morality and such, and of course, warnings against hubris and the like.

This was quite the journey, and I really hope you all enjoyed reading and learning with me! This really makes me wonder- if Apollo's love life is this good, I wonder how misinformed we are on everyone else's? I have no plans on doing Zeus or Poseidon or anyone else (not for a LONG time lol, this took a lot of effort and research!), but if anyone has any idea, or gets inspired to do something like this for any other god, please tag me!! I'd love to see it! :D

And since this was on a previous reblog, here be a meme from a while ago:

[ID: Me Explaining Me. On the left is a girl with her hands up, fingers pinched together, like she's intensely explaining something. The text over her says "Me giving a detailed diatribe about Apollo's love life and how modern media has done him and his lovers dirty". On the right is the girl's mother, wrapped up to her chin in a blanket, with a look on her face that screams "I hear this all the time". The Mother is labeled "My family". /End ID]

suffers in I'm the only mythology nerd in the family

[dootznbootz]

The fact that Diomedes gets kicked out after getting home in four days only to basically meet up with Aeneas and fuck around in Italy is so much fun. He gets CULTS :D

[thunderc1an]

what is your thesis about?

runs around happily! This is my simplified version of what my argument is about

TLDR: that Angel under god in the creation of Adam? Yeah that’s St. Michael

[lil-gae-disaster]

John Laurens would be a roman Half-Blood, ONLY and ONLY because he's from charleston and it's compared to rome in moa a LOT

I won't take arguments

This is a fact.

[whiskeysorrows]

classics is so funny as a subject. you can put that you did a degree on sex and adultery on your bio and nobody would bat an eye

[j0jorocity]

@oilyballs1 DREW THIS FOR ME HHRNNEWJKSDN CH ROME I LOVE HIM SO MUCH GUYS

This is going into the Rome album

[swimming-karyss]

I've been thinking about the screwed magnetic fields of the grand line recently, and while that train of thought didn't lead anywhere, the phrase I liked - "an invisible birdcage" - really applied to Sabo's situation nicely.

I mean, it's obvious how much influence Sabo's parents have on him, but have you ever thought that Sabo never felt freedom while he was staying in Goa kingdom? And it's even before he was brought back to his family and properly realized just how messed up nobles are!

We've seen multiple times that his parents treat him as something they own, that he unquestionably belongs to them, and even after running away to the Gray Terminal the feeling of being tied down never went away. It seems like Sabo internalised that so much, that he didn't even realise that he was free this whole time! He was free to choose his future, he was free to choose his family! The only thing holding them down was that they were unprepared to set sail,amd even then they could always leave if they wanted! As Sabo did - by stealing the boat.

And yet he still longed for freedom, to be "anywhere but here". We can see it in his design - he lives among the 'scum' of the Gray Terminal, and yet he still dressed as a noble, he wears a waistcoat and a top hat which reminds us of the fashion of the high town and especially his father, and his cravat is tied tightly around his neck. His life really was suffocating for him. Even if he was physically away from his family he still could feel their influence, though he was outside the city wall, outside of their reach! And he ran away 5 years ago! He's spent so much time living there, that his noble upbringing has faded - he felt compassion towards the people of the gray terminal, which nobles don't even consider human; he even put someone else's happiness before his own - which is unheard of in the noble circles; he has defeated men twice his size, fearlessly charged into battle while nobles don't want to get their hands dirty. And yet he was powerless when met with violence from his father, showing that despite all this time, despite how much he's changed he still was in that invisible birdcage, unable to act under the influence of his father. (which is why he leaves again)

Even Ace and Luffy feel that:

And it's really sad that Ace says that Sabo was never able to grasp freedom, because even if briefly, he did. With you two :") But he could never feel freedom as long as he stayed in the country where people are treated no better than trash, and the shadow of his family and Goa's walls lingered above him.

And a couple of hundred chapters later we see the extent of his parents' grasp! Even with amnesia this deep-seated feeling of confinement never left him. (Though I do think that it's not just the abuse from his parents but also his disgust with nobles as a whole: the burning of the Gray Terminal and nobles' indifference to it clearly affected him a lot)

And what's worse, now he can't even identify what's wrong! I mean, it's clear that his parents were abusive, you don't need to be a Sherlock to figure that out, but the specific details are lost. Think about it! He ended up on a ship with people who at first didn't really want anything to do with him - not out of malice, they just have more important things at the moment; and then in an organisation(an army) where your value as a soldier is based on your performance(like rising through ranks and such). He doesn't know that his parents equated his worth with his usefulness, and the revs don't know that the boy being so eager to help isn't just a rightheous motivation. He needed to be sure that their efforts on getting him to health weren't in waste, to be useful, so that the only people he knows won't just leave him, plus pair it with his moral values, distaste of nobles, longing for freedom... – no wonder he is the second-in-command of the entire army by the age 22!

This guy's love language is acts of service, but no one (not even Sabo himself) realises that it stems from his screwed upbringing and fear of being cast away if he's not of use.

Ok, to be fair, it's mostly based on the flashbacks - I haven't finished my reread to look in depth at him as an adult yet! After all we've only seen point A(his childhood) and point B(adulthood) with the journey between them obscured. He does seem to be faring well tho! He takes his job seriously when needed, but also fucks around when he wants to - even if ppl around him show displeasure with that! Good for him.

Same with Koala actually! It's so nice to see her being able to express her feelings so visibly! Be it positive or negative. And I think it's cute, that while Sabo is both the common reason and victim of her outbursts of emotion, he never berates her for it! He's not thrilled, but he's not complaining either!

[zoetheneko]

Yes... YEEEEES...

YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!!

🗡🗡🗡🗡🗡

[romanomen]

Okay, little rant here but I'm currently drawing Abel so this is fresh on my mind

This is coming from somebody that absolutely adores both 076-2 and 073 simultaneously

But one of the biggest things I hate about this fandom is the babying of Abel and then the demonization that comes with Cain

Like obviously, this isn't about people who just prefer Abel over Cain or the people that just enjoy cute art of Abel, not at all, you do you

This is about the people who will act like Abel did absolutely nothing wrong whilst also treating Cain like he's a horrible, irredeemable person

Like, Abel still killed a lot of people, and shows little to no regret for it (as far as I know), he's not innocent here whatsoever

I don't know, I've just seen this way too many times and it mildly bugs me

[crazycatsiren]

"But why would Ovid write a story like that though?"

Did y'all not learn anything about the ancient Romans in your history classes.

Because that was what they loved to see on stage. Sex, violence, scandal, blood, gore, those people lived for that shit.

Ovid was no historian or chronicler. He was a poet, an entertainer. His job was to write to entertain, or he would never make any money doing what he did. How else was he going to make his living, if he didn't cater to his audiences, give them what they wanted, hold their attention, and keep them entertained?

Because when in Rome.

[yonemurishiroku]

Ngl I quite like the idea of Jason's coin-sword. Like. His presence alr screams confidence. And when he tosses his coin into the air and catches it between his fingers with ease, he appears even more relaxed, self-assured, and sturdy.

And then danger strikes. He catches the coin again and this time in his hand is a golden sword, gleaming brighter than Rome's glorious days.

Jason is such grace.

[anominous-user]

since i guess we are passing ratio around every single aeon other than nous like a blunt, here's how ratio is actually an emanator of finality

[dougielombax]

Tumblr today be like:

*It’s bread.*

*It’s bread.*

It’s bread.

It’s bread.

[elmflowers]

one day ill be able to extrapolate this into a full au, but ive always thought that camp jupiter shouldve been a private school rather than a camp.

not only would that inform the sort of structure and uniformity riordan’s romans value and place high emphasis on, it would also show how important and all consuming new rome is, and would serve like one of those military schools.

and hey, maybe we can rework the whole child army thing and instead of you know sending children to war, the teachers at the academy are part of the twelfth legion. graduates who willingly joined the legion because they truly believed in the duty and responsibility that comes with it rather than like. 13 year olds with swords that have a minimum of ten years to serve in the legion. and almost all faculty are alumni and bear the responsibility of quests and such.

hell we can also keep the nepotism! the cohorts would become different dormitories/house-like things and letters of rec would still determine your cohort and how teachers treat you or something, i dont know. but as per real life schools, nepotism can TOTALLY still be a thing in jupiter academy.

it also acts as a good foil to camp half blood, which is a summer camp. instead of having the school year off, jupiter academy would have the summer off. they would mirror each other perfectly! hypothetically that would have at least a couple campers go to jupiter academy during the school year and then come back to chb for the summer and create a new age of greco-roman demigods that intermix cultures and share it and all that nice shit. yknow?

and for a spice of adventure, finals could include field tests wherein a group of demigods + a staff member go on a quest and if they come back alive they pass and if they dont well uh. conquer or die i suppose.

these quests would probably be pretty tame and not on the level of “find zeus’s lightning bolt again” or “literally go to greece and close the doors of death and suffer” or “there is a labyrinth and it craves Blood”, and more like “this minor god needs help finding a thing” or “theres a monster that took over the local starbucks go kill it”.

i think with this rework it would make way more sense why percy and annabeth would want to settle in new rome. because like. gestures. child army? child fucking army????????? the child army?????????????? i know theyre desensitized but child army????????????

anyways, new rome and subsequently jupiter academy would be a hypothetically much safer place for demigods to grow up as there are adult demigods + legacies actively watching out for them and making sure they can learn as much as possible in a relatively controlled environment, where they can fuck up and people wont die. where they dont get quests like “go free artemis” or like “literally free death trapped in alaska fucking everything up”.

anyways i might make concept art for this or something lmao, thoughts everyone?

[alpaca-clouds]

About the historical apocalypses

A while ago I made a joke. "I do not believe in the Italian language. They should be honest and call it, what it is: Neo Latin." And because I made this joke on twitter and twitter is a fucking hellhole, people got really angry about it.

What got lost in the hellhole, that is twitter, was the point I was trying to make: While, yes, Latin and Italian are different languages, if we were to zoom in at any point in time, it would suddenly become harder to differenciate. With almost any language it becomes super hard to say, at which point it stopped being language A and became language B.

Now, originally my point was kinda more about how we humans tend to draw abitrary lines, because we deal better with clear categories than spectrums. You know, like we do with genders and such.

Buuuut... Let me talk about ancient languages and more the ancient world, because there is this mistake people make in thinking about history... they draw abitrary lines.

The Slow Apocalypse

When we learn about history in school, we also put history into neat little boxes. There is the Ancient times, then there is the middle ages, then the Renaissance and so on. And maybe (probably not) we will learn about the Bronze Age Collaps. All those things. And it kinda makes it easy to think about it as "this was one period and everything within this period worked like so and so". As in: "Oh, the Ancient Egyptians build pyramids." But... yeah, only during a period of those 3000 years that Ancient Egypt lasted, they actually built those.

And we think of the end of the Ancient empires as "and then they stopped to be Roman". But... of course the people didn't. There were Romans around - so people, who spoke Latin as an actual living language - for a long while. Long enough for that language to slowly turn into other languages. There were people around, who believed in the Roman pantheon or the Egyptian pantheon or the Greek pantheon for a long while. Heck, there are still people around who believe in it. And with those I do not mean neo-pagans, but people who for generations have kept traditions alive.

When we hear "Bronze Age Collaps", that also often gets called an apocalypse, we think of it kinda like "Day after Tomorrow and then the world ended", but historically speaking apocalypses rarely (outside of the context of colonialism) went like that. With the Bronze Age it went relatively quick - like 50 years - but... Even after that... The Bronze Age Collaps happened around 1500BC and as you might have noticed: Yeah, those cultures became smaller and less organized. But they did not vanish.

Those apocalypses took place over a century. Not just three months.

Not really Dead

And now we come back to the stupid twitter joke of Italian actually being Neo Latin. Because here is the thing: The old cultures... they didn't really die. At least those, that were not actively erased. And heck, even quite a few of those are still around.

You know. When Black Panther 2 came out, I saw so many people being very confused about Nakia going around and talking to Maya people. Because of that. They do not realize that the Maya are still around. Especially as we think about the Maya - another "advanced civilization" - as dead and destroyed. But it isn't. The Maya are still around.

And... that is true for a good few parts of the Ancient cultures as well. As I said, there are still people around who believe in that stuff. And there are languages, that came from those cultures as well. Things changed. A lot. But if you actually go to those places, you will find that there is stuff that is still around. Festivals, that are still celebrated. Types of music. And shifted languages.

Here is the thing: We should not idealize the past. But... I also think that it is wrong to just act as if everything from back then is gone forever. There are cultures for which this is true. Cultures, from which we only will find ruins buried in layers and layers of earth and dust. There might still be fragments of the Indus river civilization found in India. But we know too little about that civilization to say that they really are. And other cultures might really have vanished, without us even knowing about them today.

But... just think about the Indo-European religion and culture for a moment. We do not know where they lived exactly or how they lived for that matter. But there are still bits and pieces from them around to this day. Bits of their language, of their religion.

Things do not end. They change. And I find that... strangely hopeful.