#shipping discussions

[samble-moved]

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[descendant-of-truth]

Shipping is fun and all but I swear every single time someone makes a comment, whether as a joke or in a legitimate analysis, about there being "no other explanation" for a pair's interactions, I lose just a bit more of my sanity

Like, no, you guys don't get it. Romance is not about the Amount of devotion, it's about the COLOR. the FLAVOR of it all. a character can be just as devoted to their platonic friend as they are to their romantic partner, and they don't love either of them more, just differently.

But because the majority of people still have it stuck in their minds that romance exists on the highest tier of love, I'm stuck seeing endless takes that boil down to "these two care about each other too much for it to NOT be romantic" as if that's the core determining factor to how literally any of this works

In conclusion: stop telling me that I don't understand the story if I don't interpret the leads as romantic, I am TIRED

[scarnemo]

treasured rival

[i-am-trans-gwender]

Due to a mixture of Disney advertising the Book of Bill as being 18+ and also Billford shippers flourishing, I was very disappointed when I read it and it was more of a 13+ book and didn't contain a 60 page long graphic sex scene with Bill and Ford. (Joking. The book was good)

[redysetdare]

All this aroace character shipcourse has proven to me that a majority of people that interact in fandom cannot actually interact with characters and media outside of shipping and genuinely I believe you need to learn how to interact with media outside of shipping.

[emmafrostyyy]

y'all sleeping on Astarion/Lae'zel bc this moment is so...the way the flippant demeanor drops and he doesn't hesitate to call her out for sticking with her version of Cazador like their relationship is so underrated fr...

sitting down writing this bullshit like let me peel it like an onion a bit and elaborate why this pairing is fascinating to me

It's really interesting how during the most cathartic, life-altering moment in Astarion's questline, the reactions of the other companions are more about the moral wrongness/guilt of sacrificing innocent lives. Lae'zel doesn't do that and instead relates to his hurt.

She knows what's he's feeling, the lack of control, the unfairness of being powerless for too long. This is a woman who just found out her entire life purpose was built on lies, discarded and hunted by her own people after outliving her usefulness, and groomed to basically die for an insane power-hungry lich queen. She knows all too well that power isn't always real freedom. Her first instinct is to empathize with Astarion to steer him away from his hate and resentment.

Astarion/Lae'zel is so interesting to me because they're such a classic "can we make each other worse or make a better person out of the other?".

They both have genuine appreciation for violence and respect each other's ruthlessness. Astarion was used as a weapon of seduction while Lae'zel was of warfare. Sex with people is meaningless and not real intimacy for them, and while both have little understanding/experience of interpersonal relationships beyond the physical, they still feel and love very deeply. They have no frame of reference for things like friendship and warmth, but they badly want all of that and more, even if they don't know it yet.

In-game they can sleep with each other, which is basically the foundation of the normal Tav/Astarion romance. Lae'zel saw him during combat and got horny, who knows. Astarion who's used to luring people with his charms, takes up Lae'zel's blunt offer because she's a strong hardened warrior that can provide protection and be a worthy ally, and he doesn't know how to say no. Navigating the complications between one who wants to be seen beyond as a sex object, and one who comes from a totally alien culture with no concept of love/family/connections and only sex is honestly really compelling to me. It's a transactional, mutually beneficial thing with no emotional expectations. Once you get past the skeevy rockiness of their early relationship, I really like the idea of them slowly seeing something past the exterior and realizing they may have harshly misjudged the other, an unspoken friendship blooms, and in comes the realization that they are essentially loners longing for kindness and a comforting touch in the most desperate of situations.

Lae'zel is prideful, direct, has no sense of courtship talk, and doesn't hold back her thoughts the slightest--she's not sweet/agreeable and what you see is really what you get, which I imagine would be disarming for Astarion who's used to vacuous flattery and has difficulty trusting others. But she's also insanely protective, passionate, loyal, and an initiator-- every romance scene is triggered by her first and she's always showing effort towards her relationships, which would mesh well with Astarion who does need someone to nudge him.

She doesn't purposely suppress her feelings, she's just simply at loss at how to express them sometimes due to her wildly different upbringing. She stops the sparring match you agree to and an easy vulnerability slips instantly out of her: "I don't want to hurt you. I want to protect you, and for you to protect me." and "Thus far I've taunted you, devoured you, battled you. Now I want more than anything to soothe you." are romantic as fuck and Astarion of all people really needs to hear that tbh.

Astarion is also someone who struggles with reinforcing his boundaries, and a key theme in Lae'zel's romance is that she encourages and wants you to challenge her and learn to stand your ground. It's not gentlest method, but hey, relationships are about having to make an effort to learn each other's language.

I think he also would take pleasure "educating her on the matters of Fay-run" (I believe there's a whole banter with him teasing her and teaching her pet names) and would get a kick out of coaxing Lae'zel out of her shell with her shyness at showing public affection, and making her blush. Also it simply would be fucking funny to see Astarion who's used to easy seduction, trying to pass a persuasion check just to get a smooch and generally having to work to earn regular kisses from Lae'zel lmfaooo

Lae'zel also initially struggles to see her chains as chains. When she learns about Vlaakith's betrayal, she copes instantly through denial and shuts it down. Astarion is NOT having it and calls her out, he knows her well enough to recognize that she would value blunt honesty above all.

I imagine he also despises her lack of self-preservation, the way her entire identity is tied to duty and being in service of others, and doesn't understand her desire to still help/liberate the people that want her dead and are hunting her down. He wants to make this duty-bound soldier realize that looking out for herself, and putting herself first may not be the worst thing in the world.

They're so similar to each other but are also polar opposites in some ways that make a more equal, balanced romance I think. It's not a simple, one-sided, feel-good "she/he can fix her/him" fantasy because both of them have to earn each other's love, actually cut through the other's flaws, and actively motivate each other to be better versions of themselves.

They're not at all the other's ideal guiding hand. It's rough, jagged, and imperfect, but that's how healing goes. It's so far from being the healthiest relationship -- but even if their belief systems differ, their moral compass does often align. I imagine it's a slight relief for them to have a partner where there would be less shame and judgment when they expectedly, occasionally slip up and fall into their bad habits.

Also, man, the "You showed me the betweens and beyonds. Beyond war and peace, beyond passion and obsession, most importantly, you showed me freedom.", "First you were my wound, now you were my cure.", "But you saw something else in me - someone else I could be. Someone who could break the cycle of power and terror that started centuries ago.." lines really hit hard when applied to them.

Of course, they can also make each other worse, feed into the other's negative traits that will bring out the worst part of themselves. It's this duality of their pairing that is very interesting to explore, the way it can steer in either direction because it's an intense, fraught relationship at its core.

[viibo]

yeah im a vampiyah!!! can i bite ya*

*at your own risk

[kathrahender]

"You want to make everything LGBT" "They are married and with children" "They're enemies/rivals, wth?" "They don't see each other like that" "They are just friends" "They are like brothers/sisters" "They are in love with another person" "X character is straight" "Why can't two girls/two boys be friends?"

Those are only a few examples of comments people has done about shipping two girls/two boys together. And I'm so tired of reading again and again and again the same things. I'm not gonna lie, I tried to hold back my anger towards this topic, but I need to talk about this to feel better.

First, about the "You want to make everything LGBT". No, no. That's not true. We don't want to make everything LGBT. You are the one who wants to make everything straight. In every single show/movie I've watched there is at least one straight couple (most of the times there is more than one). And you know how many LGBT ships are in the same show? Yes? Exactly. Zero. One or two if the show is good enough to be inclusive. So please, stop with the "You want to make everything LGBT" argument because it's stupid and it makes no sense.

Secondly, about the "They are married and with children". So? What does that mean to you? Why does that matter? Last time I checked, divorce existed. And there are straight couples that divorced in real life, so I don't see a problem if the straight couples divorces in the show/movie. Is it a big deal in reality? No. Or you just don't like the "breaking up because falling in love with someone of the same sex" thing? Huh?

In third place, the "They're enemies/rivals". Ever heard about the enemies/rivals to lovers trope? And about the redemption/corruption arc? Because those are ways a ship like that can happen. And last time I checked, people don't care about the "enemy/rival" thing if the ship is straight. No one cared about the "enemies to lovers" in books like Shadow and Bone, Folk of the Air, Shatter Me or others. So that only matters if the ship is LGBT or what?

"They don't see each other like that". Well. You always saw your lover as your lover? Or first it was your rival, your friend, or someone who wasn't even in your inner circle? You saw them and you inmediatly became lovers or what? Because two characters can be rivals, friends, or people who don't know each other at first and then learn to love each other. Just. Exactly. Like. A. Straight. Couple. So, again, this is a dumb argument.

"They are just friends". Just like I said in the previous point, a boy/boy or girl/girl friendship can turn into love just like a boy/girl friendship can.

"They are like brothers/sisters". Let me ask you a question. They canonically said "I see you as a sister/as a brother"? Because if they didn't, you're just asuming things. You're just assuming they see each other as sisters/brothers because you don't bear them seeing each other romantically.

"They are in love with another person". Agaaaain. Were you always in love with one person? Did you marry the first person you loved or what? Or you liked/loved people until you found the person you actually wanted to be by your side forever? And just as you can fall in love with someone, you can stop loving them. So once again, this argument makes no sense.

"X character is straight". Well. I myself thought I was straight. My best female friend thought she was straight herself. My two best male friends thought they were straight themselves. And I ended up being pansexual, my best female friend turned out to be bisexual, and my two best male friends turned out to be bisexual/gay. Being married to a woman being a man or being married to a man being a woman doesn't mean they're straight. They could realize they are not straight but bisexual. Or pansexual. Or ace. Or whatever you want. But it's not something that cannot change. It's not something written in stone.

"Why can't two girls/two boys be friends?". And why a girl and a boy can't be just friends? Because almost every show has a main straight canon couple. Westallen, Olicity (The Flash, Arrow), Charles/Moira, Peter/MJ (Marvel), Darklina (Shadow and Bone), Stydia, Scallison (Teen Wolf), Deckerstar (Lucifer TV), Hinny (Harry Potter), Mileven (Stranger Things), Anidala, Obitine (Star Wars), Leorai, Apriltello (TMNT 2012)... And I could continue. And it is always the main couple. The main couple is always a girl and a boy. So I don't understand why can't you see that the ones that can't be just friends aren't two boys or two girls. The ones that always have to be romantically involved are a boy and a girl.

If you read this to the end, thank you. I hope you think the same as me. And if you don't, read it again and see some of the shows I mentioned. And please, think about what I said instead of being a close-minded person.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

one of the things I see the most in any fandom space is pearl clutching people saying how “shocked” they are when it turns out a “problematic” ship or a “problematic” character is loved a lot in said fandom.

the most recent example for me would be from this poll where it asks people to vote which ship they like the most, thousands of fans have voted, and the results happen to show the ship that is — according to these people — most problematic has won. needless to say, hundreds of these “noble people who usually harass real people, who just want to ship their little ship in peace, over fictional characters in the name of being morally superior” are so shocked that such a “harmful and problematic” ship is the one that is most liked within the fandom they’re in.

I mean… I don’t know what to tell you, but just because you’re “loud” and you like to “witch hunt” people who enjoy fictional things that you think is Bad, doesn’t mean the ship or the character you deemed Problematic is actually hated by the majority of the fandom you’re in.

sure, you are allowed to hate these ships and these characters for any reason, but other people are allowed to like them. and surprise surprise, the world doesn’t revolve around you and your mindset that Liking Bad Fictional Things Equals Condoning Bad Things in Real Life.

shocking, I know. but most sane people can actually distinguish the differences between fiction and reality. and that’s why people who like fictional villains aren’t actually serial killer in real life.

fandom is and has always supposed to be a safe and fun space in which anyone can like and enjoy whatever they want. it never is, and it’s never supposed to be a courtroom where someone’s moral compass is judged based on how they enjoy Fictional Things. because the whole point of enjoying a ship or liking a fictional character is that it’s fictitious, it’s not real. no one in real life is getting killed because a hot fictional villain is loved by hundreds and thousands of fans.

I hope you feel better soon though 🤍

[polling-sonic-fans]

Polling Sonic Fans for their opinions on all manner of things. Share good questions to indicate what you want asked. Submissions open.

[vakariaan]

ultimate ships challenge - the first otp Harry/Hermione  »  Harry Potter

Harry felt a thrill of something that was beyond excitement, more like fear. Now that he was so near, he wondered whether he wanted to see after all. Perhaps Hermione knew how he was feeling, because she reached for his hand and took the lead for the first time, pulling him forward.

[another-goblin]

Based on that new video

"And btw there is a good logical reason why I carry his photo in my wallet! It's not what you think!" "Wait what photo?…"

[koifishanonymous]

ok so i've been debating making this post but the new spiderverse fandom needs to relax about shipping.

it's ok to ship characters that are already married or in relationships. it's ok to ship characters with unconfirmed ages. it's ok to ship characters together that have never interacted. your headcanons don't have to be accurate or plausible in canon.

it was never that serious, it's ok to just have fun

[wwillywonka]

Can I talk to you?

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

[0caljello]

people who ship bronte and fintan need to stop being afraid and start shipping keefitz. it’s the same ship you are all just to cowardly to admit it. snarky and dark haired with anger issues who upholds elvin society paired with slightly evil blonde with dangerous abilities who’s fundamentally minsunderstood but buries their feelings and doesn’t show it.

[celtrist]

It's okay to be emotional over a ship.

It's okay to be emotional over a ship. It's okay to be emotional over characters. It's okay to share grievances over a ship as much as it's okay to gush over a ship. It's okay to feel so overwhelmingly negatively over a ship just as much as it's okay to feel so overwhelmingly positive.

While it's always going to be better to focus on positives, it can also be just as good to let out any negatives you might have about something rather than bottling it in and, for some, feeling alone in your thoughts about it.

It is so, so, SO OKAY to be so heavy in emotions concerning a ship whether negative or positive because it means you're invested in the characters and their relationships. When spaces seem to allow only positivity when some people might have some negative thoughts on a ship, it really negates any conversations about it and even understanding sides of why someone may or may not ship something.

While understandable, there is a double standard between being negative and positive about ships (or portrayal of characters). If you feel overwhelmingly negative about something, "you need to go touch grass". If you feel overwhelmingly positive about something, "go at it queen". I would personally argue we all need to touch grass.

It is NOT okay to harass others. It is NOT okay to let your emotions dictate that you should attack somebody for LIKING a certain ship or DISLIKING a certain ship. Your emotions DO NOT dictate how OTHERS should feel.

It is okay to be negative about a character or ship as much as it's okay to be positive about them. Neither side of being for or against a ship is more virtuous than the others. It's okay to have some fucking emotions regardless if their positive or not, because it means you CARE about the media and the characters in it.

No, you should not revolve your whole online experience in negativity. Find positive in things you DO enjoy. But to brush off people who vehemently might dislike a character or ship as "losers with no lives" is to disregard a person's emotions on something. And if you do wanna think that mindset, congrats, people who obsessively love a character or ship are just the same by your logic. Obsession is obsession, regardless if it's negative or positive.

TL;DR, If it's okay to be overwhelmingly positive in liking something like a ship or character, it should be just as okay to be negative in disliking something like a ship or character. Just as long as it's not the ONLY thing you focus on and no one is actively being bullied, attacked, or harassed about it. And of course, either way, positive or negative, it is all fiction, and a real person should not be attacked or harassed for it. And if you don't want to indulge in negativity you might have, 100% valid. Both sides always need to take a step back into reality.