#the sandman is a tragedy

[orionsangel86]

Deciding I couldn't wait to listen to Act 2 of The Sandman on Audible, I decided to just jump in and read the comics instead. I have consumed them at a pace far quicker than I thought I was capable of and have finally reached the end of the Worlds End books. The Kindly Ones is next. I know whats coming, but I can't bring myself to read on. The end of Worlds End left me with such a deep feeling of dread and melancholy, just like the guy at the inn, looking up at the giants in the sky...

The end of Brief Lives hurt, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to make it through The Kindly Ones. I wanna storm into Destiny's garden, rip his stupid book from his hands and tear out all the pages.

These dumb comics made me fall in love with that silly emo boy endless dream king more than the show ever did. My brain has gone and Castiel-ified him and I HATE myself for it.

I can't read on. I've hit an impasse. I need the ending to change... how many times have I complained on here how much I loathe tragedies.

Sigh.

As someone who generally doesn't like comics, these comics are fucking superb. The story is SO beautifully crafted. This is next level story weaving and how could I have expected anything less from Neil Gaiman really? But I NEED him to change the ending.

***Spoiler alert***

The whole way through this story so far there has been this idea that those who resist change die, that those are your options: you must change, or you must die. There is all this foreshadowing about change or death, and there are all these hints to different paths taken and choices made, I wonder if Neil was in several minds about how the story would end whilst he was writing, and in the end, he chose the tragic path. Dream couldn't change enough to prevent his death, it even seems, from what I have read so far and what little I have spoiled myself, that perhaps he even welcomes his death? Now that just wont do.

I don't know all the details of what comes next, but I do know the ending, and I don't like it. The one thing I keep clinging to is Hob's last dream, and the hope that perhaps that means that Morpheus isn't actually dead at all, but just free of his duty, free of his role, and out there somewhere, with his brother, at peace and happy. (Yes I already spoiled myself and read the comics with Hob and everything from the Ren Faire through to the dream on the beach had me sobbing even though I didn't know what had happened before)

I am almost certain Sandman will get more seasons at Netflix (and if Netflix don't renew someone else will snap it up - hopefully HBO) so am sure there will be a point in the future when these later stories are adapted and my god I hope they do change it, somehow. Even if everything still happens to lead to his death, i would need more emphasis on Hob's dream to basically confirm that he was still "alive" somewhere, that he was free, that he was happy...

That's my wish. Until then, I will go immerse myself in ridiculously sappy happy fluffy fanfiction I think. Thank FUCK for fanfiction!

[sevrinve]

sandflower !!

[writing-for-life]

About Love As The Catalyst For Change

Okay, so while I was going through all the panels for March Mania, I also stumbled over these ones again:

And although I’ve read it all a million times and had all these feelings before, I just need to blurt them out:

Love Is What Changes Him

It’s such a central message of The Sandman, but I feel it often gets lost in a million other things. And they’re all important, but so is this one.

Because yes, Dream went with Delirium and found Destruction (and Despair found him btw), and his Destiny was Death. And that whole Desire thing… ‘nuff said. BUT… (major spoilers ahead)

Those panels above are basically the turning point in a nutshell. No, well, the turning point is actually the moment he kisses (and then kills) Orpheus, but those panels are the essence:

He set out with Delirium in hopes to find Thessaly (the pendant Nuala wears here used to be hers, and she gave it to her when she left the Dreaming and him. And I can’t even begin to tell you how I feel about him letting Nuala keep a gift of his ex, who betrays him later by protecting the woman he hurt, and then making it the item that holds the power with which Nuala can call in her boon. One could spin that very far in all sorts of different directions).

But when he comes back after killing Orpheus, it doesn’t really matter anymore. Thessaly was the usual romanticised dream that could never be real. But he finally did find love. For his son. The unconditional kind. The one that doesn’t need anything in return because it just is. And he was loved back, if for a brief moment. But it was real, not a dream. And that love stays real (that’s why it initiates the turn, 3rd act and all that).

I’m reminded again of the words of Frank McConnell in his intro to The Kindly Ones:

“And with [killing Orpheus], Dream has entered time, choice, guilt and regret—has entered the sphere of the human.”

(Side note at this point: With all of this in mind, read Dream Hunters [again], and look at all THREE main characters—that includes the onmyōji, not just the monk and the fox.)

And it would be so easy to say, “Well, love killed him then, what’s the fucking point?” Not just the love for his son, but also the love of a maiden who called in her boon (Nuala), the love of a mother for her child (Lyta), the love of a crone for no one but herself (Thessaly).

But we all know that “change or die” was never an “either or”, because it’s an “and both”. And it’s ultimately love, in all its shapes and forms, four times over, that changed him (while it was also part of the death knell, but that’s a complicated one. In any case, it also led to change: To be(come) a new, better, kinder Dream).

Yes, call me romantic or hopeless (although I think that’s the wrong word in this context, because I feel it’s the opposite), I don’t care.

Because that story is about catharsis. And that means Dream is a vessel for our feelings. And the feelings won’t be the same if we change any of this, for better, for worse. Because truthfully: That story is about me. And you. And you.

About allowing love, of whatever kind (this is very clearly not just about romantic love), to change us. And that ultimately means letting go (of control). Just like he did.

Bleurgh, I’m crying. Catharsis 🤣

[im-not-corrupted]

take it slow -- Chapter 2/3

Dream/Hob | Teen and Up | No Warnings Apply | 24.3k

"Bullshit,” he said abruptly, and Dream…did not expect that. His own eyebrows creeped into his hairline; he ignored the stinging and the pulling that simple action caused. It did not matter. “You look like you’ve gone ten rounds with hell itself, my friend. I didn’t…I didn’t even know anything could hurt you like that. Just…” His shoulders stiffened. For the first time since he began to talk, he seemed suddenly unsure of himself, or perhaps of his words. “I…Would you like to come back to The New Inn? I would like to look at those cuts, Stranger. You…You don’t deserve to be hurt like that.” The words struck him not unlike a blow to his face. Stung just as much as one would, with the added effect of knocking the air from his lungs. He could not even dredge up amusement at Hob’s unassuming 'you look like you’ve gone ten rounds with hell itself', instead staring at Hob wide-eyed.

After his duel with Lucifer and retrieving his stolen tools, Dream is injured and in pain. When he sees Hob, the man insists on helping him care for his wounds.

Tags: Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Touch-Starved Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Hurt Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Dream of the Endless | Morpheus Loves Hob Gadling, Hob Gadling Loves Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Minor Injuries, Hurt/Comfort, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Episode: s01e06 The Sound of Her Wings (The Sandman TV), First Kiss, POV Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Good Friend Hob Gadling, Self-Worth Issues, The New Inn is a Temple to Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Developing Relationship, Miscommunication due to a lack of communication entirely, Flowers, The Dreaming Realm (The Sandman), Fluff and Angst, Traumatized Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Dream of the Endless | Morpheus is Bad at Feelings

--

This fic really was supposed to be just a one shot, but I really didn't want to come up with a whole new summary and title so...take it slow is no longer a oneshot I guess XD

Read the full thing on ao3 here!

[onehundredandeleventropicalfish]

okay but for real though in a story where depression is such a large theme, particularly surrounding dream, hob gadling as a character is so important

and it’s not because he’s cheerful all the time. it’s because he’s not

i’ll avoid particularly spoilery panels, but one of the last issues of sandman involves hob at a ren faire, because his girlfriend at the time works at it and wanted to take him. and he hates every fucking second of it, like he spends a good 2/3 of this issue complaining (this is nowhere close to all of it but you get the picture)

and that’s the thing about depression, right, is once it’s been in your head for long enough you start to believe that you’re seeing the true world, that everything really is this dismal, and people who still find the joy in life are just naive, or they just happen to be that optimistic

and it would be easy to say that hob is a one in a million special case who just happens to be like that, but then what would be the point of him as a character? that would just be reinforcing those beliefs

no, the point is that hob is everyone. he represents humanity in all its strengths and all its flaws. he’s done great things and he’s done absolutely horrific things, and none of that is ever going to leave him (he spends like three straight pages of this issue talking about how he can never make up for the slave trade, for the people who say the story glosses over it). and he looks the forever optimist when talking to dream, because he has reason to be, but he’s also just as likely to be grouchy and grumbly and mope about things

he’s not naive in any way, he’s been through all of the worst things a person can go through, and he’s also not particularly special, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time saying the right things

and that makes him the strongest proof that what depression tells you is wrong. the point neil gaiman’s making with this character is that yes, humanity is complicated, and yes, life has plenty of both upsides and downsides. but when it comes down to it, that hope runs through every one of us. hob is perfectly capable of bad moods and seeing the worst in everything but he's been through enough and come out the other side of it enough to know that's not what life is

most stories that deal with immortality make a point of saying eventually everyone will hit a point where they have to give up. and im not saying that’s necessarily a bad point to make, but it’s so refreshing and so interesting to see the opposite point made, i’ve never seen it happen - sandman’s thesis is that you have to keep changing to keep living, but you have to keep living to keep changing

and this story says that on the whole, if you give people a way to keep going, they will take it. and it’s not out of greed or selfishness or pride or fear, it’s out of hope and love. and humanity is going to keep surviving and keep changing because ultimately depression and despair and hopelessness and cruelty and all those things are not strong enough to counter that

[tinageeart]

“𝓦𝓮𝓵𝓬𝓸𝓶𝓮 𝓗𝓸𝓶𝓮”

[roguelov]

I know it’s probably been said before but it just hit me hard again

Listening to Hadestowns (again) and hearing Orpheus saying ‘you called my name’ and Eurydice replying ‘you came’ and just punching the wall thinking about how Morpheus and Calliope paralleling that in the show

[thepeelingrenoir]

The moment Orpheus finally sings to all of Hades.

[death-of-the-endless]

“...It’s like uh gender isn’t something you can pick and choose uh far as Gods are concernced.” “Well, that’s something the Gods can take and stuff up their sacred recta. I know what I am.”

Wanda Mann in The Sandman: A Game of You (1993)

[gen-is-gone]

ok actually fuck OFF with the 'Hob is a grown ass adult 666 y/o history professor who insists Shakespeare was a talentless hack, NO. no, more like, 'Hob bears a personal grudge that he has (with extreme reluctance) set aside over the centuries and is willing to admit at this stage of his life that Billy Shakes maybe knew what he was on about BUT. MORE SPECIFICALLY the reason Dream ditched Hob in 1589 was because he wanted to commission two plays from Shakespeare, not fuck him, and the thing about Shakespeare is that he gives Dream words that Dream can't speak for himself. he gives the Dream Lord a *voice* that others might hear. and after a fortnight straight of dreaming various famous performances of Hamlet's 'to be' soliloquy, Hob finally clocks the fact that Dream is not okay.

"Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all" he says to the man who loves life so much he never wants to die.

[dxliriumoftheendless]

this is pretty much how i feel about dreamling

[fiddlersgray]

don’t know if the show will also follow the comics storyline of Morpheus going the way of the dodo or even if Netflix will allow them to get there but. I need show!Daniel. Will it be bad? Most likely. But do I need it? Yeas…

[onehundredandeleventropicalfish]

okay but seriously im rereading a game of you to try and understand what the fuck dream saw in thessaly and like. no! it’s not any easier to understand the second time!

like i know we’re told later that a lot of their courting happened off screen but like. this is all we get, in game of you, that isn’t outright hostile

and then the next time it’s brought up in the comic we’re told that they dated for a couple months and then broke up and dream is very much Not Over It

is this you flirting? is that what this is? was your point of commonality that you’re both incapable of being normal? crack? is it crack you smoke?

like, okay, thessaly later realises she was never actually in love with him she just thought she was, so i won’t question her motives too much, he’s pretty, fair enough

but dream???? this is the relationship you flooded the dreaming for three weeks over? you abhor murder and she does casual necromancy and mutilation for fun. literally all we’ve seen her do on screen is make your life harder with fucked up witch magic

were you just bored, and she was the only immortal around? or do you get a kick out of dating someone who is so opposed to your own existence, to the point where you genuinely loved her? (or at least believed you did)

like look normally im of the opinion that merv is a little too critical of you and brief lives’ “real life. that’s what guys like him never have to face up to” quote is a good example, but in this case if you’d been disrupting my life for three weeks over this bullshit i would punt you through a wall with a broom myself

[so-i-grudgingly-joined-this-site]

The end of The Sandman books really said "sometimes suicide IS the right answer" and "aspiring to be more than your career leads to catastrophic failure" and yet people call it a happy and hopeful ending...

[rooftopwreck]

Major Spoiler Warning for The Sandman comics

I just finished reading The Kindly Ones and I went online and saw some posts about Bodyguard/Knight!Hob and I can't get the idea outta my head

What if Hob does become a knight for Dream during The Kindly Ones?

Major Spoilers under the cut

So, in The Kindly Ones, Morpheus meets up with Hob outside a graveyard where Hob mourns a lover, they go to a pub and then he makes to leaves Hob to which Hob says he can smell the scent of death on him and warns him to be careful and lets Morpheus go. All that is canon, all that happened.

but what if he doesn't let Morpheus go? what if he goes 'fuck it something IS happening and something IS wrong, I'm coming with you, let me help you, this is what friends DO'

Why? To watch out for him because he is worried out of his mind for his friend. His friend that just admitted they were actually friends five years ago after knowing each other for centuries. They didn't get that much time. There's no way Hob is just letting this slide, just letting him go when something is wrong, he is nothing if not loyal and stubborn. He manages to convince Morpheus to let him be his Knight (maybe morpheus knows his time will run out soon and he wouldn't mind spending more time with Hob, he won't say that of course)

After that, almost everything that happens in canon still happens:

the kindly ones still attack the dreaming, Hob helps defend and protect those of the dreaming with the skills he acquired over the centuries being a mercenary, a bandit, a soldier etc

He does it a bit recklessly, a bit desperately, as he is the only one they cannot actually kill permanantly even if Dream is dead (unlike everyone else in the dreaming), he saves some of them, but he cannot save all of them. He is only a man. Hob then retreats to the castle with the others (lucien[ne], matthew, corianthian etc) to watch over Daniel.

Morpheus leaves to make his final stand (would he have allowed Hob to follow the way he allowed matthew?) Hob asks him to reconsider, to find a different way, they can figure a way out of this, they can save him and the dreaming, damn it. Morpheus doesn't. He still leaves.

Death arrives. She isn't here for Hob, she isn't here for Daniel. Who else?

In the end, the tragedy is that nothing Hob did would have mattered, nothing changes:

the Dreaming residents that have "died" would still have resurrected with or without Hob to defend them as their Knight.

Morpheus would still have taken Death's hand with or without Hob pleading him not to.

Daniel Hall would still become the new Dream with or without Hob.

Hob would still lose Morpheus.

Nothing Hob does changes the Ending.

Nothing Changes: The Ending is the same.

But.

In Morpheus's last few moments, he had love. He had the love of his subjects, of his creations, of his friends, of his family. He could see it in the way they look at him, the way Hob tries to hold the kindly ones back in defence of him. He could hear it in the way they spoke to him, argued with him, begged him, the way Hob stubbornly wouldn't take no for an answer. He could feel it rolling off them in waves. He could feel it rolling off Hob, in desperation.

The Ending doesn't change. Cannot change.

Yet, Hob being there for him still mattered.

He was loved.

[im-not-corrupted]

take it slow — a dreamling fic

No Warnings Apply | Teen and Up | 14.3k

Summary:

"Bullshit,” he said abruptly, and Dream…did not expect that. His own eyebrows creeped into his hairline; he ignored the stinging and the pulling that simple action caused. It did not matter. “You look like you’ve gone ten rounds with hell itself, my friend. I didn’t…I didn’t even know anything could hurt you like that. Just…” His shoulders stiffened. For the first time since he began to talk, he seemed suddenly unsure of himself, or perhaps of his words. “I…Would you like to come back to The New Inn? I would like to look at those cuts, Stranger. You…You don’t deserve to be hurt like that.”

The words struck him not unlike a blow to his face. Stung just as much as one would, with the added effect of knocking the air from his lungs. He could not even dredge up amusement at Hob’s unassuming 'you look like you’ve gone ten rounds with hell itself', instead staring at Hob wide-eyed.

After his duel with Lucifer and retrieving his stolen tools, Dream is injured and in pain. When he sees Hob, the man insists on helping him care for his wounds.

Additional Tags: Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Touch-Starved Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Hurt Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Dream of the Endless | Morpheus Loves Hob Gadling, Hob Gadling Loves Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Minor Injuries, Hurt/Comfort, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Episode: s01e06 The Sound of Her Wings (The Sandman TV), First Kiss, POV Dream of the Endless | Morpheus, Good Friend Hob Gadling, Self-Worth Issues, The New Inn is a Temple to Dream of the Endless | Morpheus

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