#the winchesters meta

[charcubed]

Hi. I tend to forget that tumblr exists and just shout all my thoughts about The Winchesters on Twitter @CharCubed, which is a problem, but for once in my life I'm posting something here!

Here are some broad Thoughts on where I've landed of what this season 1 finale of The Winchesters offered–

• I very much want season 2 of this show SO badly. I want to see how they all continue to build their lives now that we know tragedy need not be their end! THIS IS THE HEALING SHOW. That whole cast gets to write their own story... "the only thing that's worse than how it starts for a hunter is how it ends" is no longer the case, as Carlos already said... and Dean helped to free them? That fucks.

• In regards to those possibilities: now that Dean would no longer be framing the prequel as a story he's telling, it frees the prequel up to no longer be doubling as Dean's story through revealing mirroring–which is very much what it's been doing for 12 episodes. Now the monster plots and the storylines for those characters in The Winchesters can also be diversified, so every episode no longer has to include, for example... [checks notes] a situation where a character is literally and/or metaphorically trapped and has to confront their trauma, break cycles of violence, and speak truths to be freed. It's been very Loud and very much Like This Constantly because it's Dean's story, but now it won't have to be anymore, which is an interesting thing to contemplate! (To be clear, for those unaware of my history of yelling about this show: I love that it was Like This. This show is fucking genius.)

• Initially, this finale had some alarm bells pinging in my brain but then I parsed the Reasons for those things. Mary told John she had "Something to say," right? And then she never says it. That's a Chekhov's gun that's never fired and it's of course paralleling how Dean has "something to say" to Cas too. Them not speaking that truth is a problem. In addition, we also got a montage eerily akin to the 15x19 one. But these callbacks / parallels to s15 all loudly indicate something very specific: The Winchesters is an unfinished story, and this finale (like the rest of this show) is mirroring and revealing truths about the prime narrative of SPN. For one thing, with the prequel they originally expected to have 22 or so episodes and ended up having 13 to work with. For another... this is the START of their story, not the end. So along those lines, what can we deduce about the end of season 15? (Hint: that finale is not an ending either.)

• Speaking of which: We learn that everything Dean was just doing takes place in the ~heavenly~ time period before Sam “dies." This all functionally happened right after Dean died as he drove down that road. He is restless, unmoored, grieving, and–this is key–considers his "ending" to be an unhappy happy one. He's fucking around and finding out, looking for and unpacking (through his narration) what he needs and wants for HIS happy ending to look like. He found out about the Akrida being a failsafe from Chuck and couldn't resist meddling to save everyone. It's also worth noting that Dean says to Jack something like, "If you have to kick me out of Heaven then that's fine." Between the lines is the thought of "please kick me out of Heaven, I'm causing problems because I'm grieving and I'm not done, I don't want this 'peace' but would rather have freedom." That in itself is a massive subversion of the SPN finale, to say nothing of the previous 12 episodes we've received.

Anyway. So in terms of Dean's story, we now know that this all takes place smack in the middle of 15x20 timeline-wise. This checks out because Bobby's presence connects to him being the only one we saw in 15x20. And... what I personally consider to be Jack's incredibly fucked up or ~potentially taken over by Chuck~ vibes are, in that sense, consistent with 15x19 as well. (I'm so sorry but please let me drop this cursed "Alex Calvert playing Chuck" joke by Jensen from August 2022 which haunts me.)

So: nothing about the concept that @chuckwon at the end of season 15 has been confirmed or denied in canon at this point. The idea that Chuck LOST, as Dean says here, is simply what Dean may still be thinking (which makes sense). But nothing has fundamentally changed about the state of how season 15 left things in the prime narrative yet... largely because that's not what this story is / was about.

In terms of what this finale presented to us, I think "Chuck won" potential was all deliberately left open. And I continue to Call Bullshit on the finale accordingly. A Chuck won plot line COULD be used in a future sequel to great affect, or it could NOT be used in a future sequel. That will be totally up to the future authors / team behind that potential sequel to see what story they choose to tell, and where it all may or may not go. But until then (on that front) right now it's the same shit, different show, and deliberately literally nothing about that potential has changed.

• I LOVE all of the above now that I've parsed it all in my brain. It makes perfect sense. Much like we were never going see the gay angel pop up in this show and kiss Dean (with apologies to anyone who somehow thought otherwise?)... leaving other things open like this is fantastic and the objectively correct call. Dean's story is HIS story to be furthered elsewhere, whereas this show belonged and continues to belong to its cast of characters who must take center stage. But through this story within a story narrated by Dean himself, we learned a hell of a lot about his state of mind as it actively stands in 15x20. Or more accurately: the entire show reinforces and reiterates comprehensively and repeatedly that the SPN finale was wrong and bad and not the end of the story at all, and now canonically and openly and in no uncertain terms that that's how Dean feels too.

• AND THUS: season 1 of The Winchesters works as deeply clever and layered commentary on Supernatural's ending and presents the stepping stone for a sequel continuation for Dean and his family. It's also the beginning of a new chapter with endless potential for The Winchesters' cast of characters who are not tied to fate or main timeline.

I fucking love it here.

Truly, madly, deeply: ALL HAIL ROBBIE THOMPSON.

And seriously, I really hope we get a season 2 because I adore all of the prequel's characters on their own merit and I want to see what their story can become :')

[chuckwon]

The Winchesters: Look at this hunter who absorbed monster essence and got corrupted by it as part of Chuck’s fail safe. Also hmmmm here’s Jack who absorbed Chuck’s powers and… well he seems a little fucked up doesn’t he haha. Isn’t that interesting :)

I’m sure it’s nothing though! 👍🏻 Jack being new God is definitely fine! Yay Heaven ending! Something something they won and Dean is free, right?

[earlgodwin]

dean's codependency towards sam codepended too close to the sun as even in the afterlife he kept the samulet because it brings him a sense of connection to his brother and then later risked being cast out of heaven by manipulating reality from up there because looking after sam is all he ever knew and his ideal scenario is his brother happily living his full life

[youchangedmedean]

Dean’s Outfit in The Winchesters Trailer

Here I am, back on my obsession with Dean’s clothing and able to put it to good use.

We see Dean in the trailer not looking exactly like we know him. However, we know his outfit.

He is wearing his black denim jacket, light denim shirt and mid blue jeans. I am guessing this is heaven by the license plate but it is not his heaven outfit from 15x20. Dean has had the jacket since s11 and wore it in s15 for 

15x04 Atomic Monsters 

15x08 Our Father Who Aren’t in Heaven 

15x09 The Trap

The shirt was new for s15 and worn in :

15x04 Atomic Monsters 

15x08 Our Father Who Aren’t in Heaven 

15x09 The Trap 

15x14 The Last Holiday

15x15 Gimme Shelter 

15x20 Carry On

While they were both in Atomic Monsters (directed by Jackles himself) they were not worn together. They were worn together in 15x08 and 15x09. Yes, this outfit travels to both hell and purgatory.

And Jensen finds it so significant that he decided Dean would wear it the first time we see him in The Winchesters. I also want to note that it was worn in 15x04 to kill a vampire. And Dean died on a Vampire Hunt. In this case the parents were getting him human blood. They said Sam and Dean couldn’t understand because they are not parents. “We just wanted him to have a normal life”. Can’t help but think this could take on new meaning with the prequel.

It was also interspersed with Chuck and Becky with this memorable scene

BECKY: Okay. If I had to give one note… the jeopardy, Chuck. It’s feeling a little… thin? Low stakes? It’s fun to hear the boys’ voices, but a story is only as good as its villain, and these villains are just not feeling very… dangerous? Not to mention, there’s no classic rock. No one even mentions Cas. The climax is a little stale. Boys tied up again while we get the villain’s monologue, which, frankly, isn’t one of your best. A little originality wouldn’t… hurt.

I don’t think I need to remind everyone about all the Atomic Monsters theories. “It’s awful! Horrible. It’s hopeless.” They’re not dead. They’re just away”.

The shirt I believe to be the one Dean died in. He changed into it and his death jacket for his final hunt. 

I think I might have an idea now for something I had no clue about before. I noted before on my post about Dean’s Cursed Heaven Outfit that on the video Jensen posted as he was dressing up as Dean for the last time “at least for now” he was not wearing the jacket Dean wore in Heaven. He was wearing Dean’s black denim jacket, not the heaven one.

These are NOT the same jackets. The sleeves sit different, pockets are different shapes, there is not the same seams on the heaven one etc.

I could never figure out why Jensen would be dressing as Dean in a near identical outfit that we never see. Now I wonder if Dean coded Jensen managed to film something way back in September 2020 for the prequel? The scenes filmed on that final day were the roadhouse, driving and the bridge. I think it might be possible he switched jackets at some point. And maybe this was when Jensen stole it from set! Seeing this trailer I am more convinced than ever that the prequel is somehow going to lead to a continuation.

[quillquiver]

Have we talked about the fact that The Winchesters’ finale (1x13) is called Hey that’s no way to say goodbye in the context of the Leonard Cohen song of the same name? I’m not talking about the obvious reference to Dean in the song title here - which, like, it is Dean. It has to be. We don’t say goodbye to any of the other spnwin characters.

Bear with me for a second, because in a Dean-centric context, these lyrics are insane:

I loved you in the morning, our kisses deep and warm Your hair upon the pillow like a sleepy golden storm Yes, many loved before us, I know that we are not new In city and in forest they smiled like me and you But now it's come to distances and both of us must try Your eyes are soft with sorrow Hey, that's no way to say goodbye

I'm not looking for another as I wander in my time Walk me to the corner, our steps will always rhyme You know my love goes with you as your love stays with me It's just the way it changes, like the shoreline and the sea But let's not talk of love or chains and things we can't untie Your eyes are soft with sorrow Hey, that's no way to say goodbye

I loved you in the morning, our kisses deep and warm Your hair upon the pillow like a sleepy golden storm Yes, many loved before us, I know that we are not new In city and in forest they smiled like me and you But let's not talk of love or chains and things we can't untie Your eyes are soft with sorrow Hey, that's no way to say goodbye

Like, the ep title might not be referencing the song, or it might just be referencing the title and none of the other lyrics, but Supernatural has always been very particular about its musical choices and that’s always pertained to the whole song. Plus, Jensen in particular seemed very focused on the music for the prequel. So it kind of feels like these lyrics can be interpreted as attached to the episode and therefore to Dean? And like, it could just be about Dean, himself, with the audience meant to interpret that Dean is reclaiming that original goodbye in 15x20, but... this song is about separated lovers. Hm. Who else do we know that confessed his love to someone before becoming separated? 

This was an insane choice.

[drsilverfish]

SPNWin 1x07 Reflections - The Seance

John broke the musical box, which played his parents’ intensely romantic love song As Time Goes By (which was also the love song of Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca): 

Dean “Dammit Cas, we can fix this”

Cas: “Dean, it's not broken.”

6x20 The Man Who Would Be King

Now he needs to speak to his dead loved one (his father) and Lata tells him that the seance-spell requires that the connection between the significant object and the loved one’s spirit:

Dean: “I hope you can hear me, I hope you can hear me...”

Cas: “You don’t have to say it... I heard your prayer”

15x09 The Trap 

Cas: “You know, ever since we met, ever since I pulled you out of Hell... Knowing you has changed me.... I love you...”

Dean (Non LatAm dub version): “....................”

15x18 Despair

“Amate Spiritus Obscure Te Quaerimus

Te oramus nobiscum colloquere

Apud nos circita”

“Beloved Hidden Spirit, We Seek You

We beg you to speak with us

In our circle”

SPNWin 1x07 Reflections

Pamela (with her hand on Dean’s hand-print brand):

“I invoke, conjure, and command you, appear unto me before this circle.”

4x01 Lazarus Rising

Notice that in The Winchesters seance, the spirit is addressed as “Beloved”.

Narrator-Dean’s story is filled with reflections from his own life, and here, in the subtext of 1x07, a story about his parents’ first kiss, he longs to share his feelings openly and honestly with his own beloved, from whom he is separated by death, Castiel. 

[reblogging4thewin]

Just some The Winchesters thoughts

So, Millie told Mary offscreen that John's anger issues stem from childhood, and Mary recognizes that she and hunting are excuses for him to act on that anger.

Well, there are a couple of dimensions to unpack here...part of which is going to bring in my psychology degree...

And then I also have some thoughts on angel interference in their relationship- bc I do think we're already seeing it happen on screen.

Nature vs Nurture and John's fate

So, one of the main things I learned when studying psychology was a disturbing fact that sounds wrong coming from an optimist like me, but it's true, and John is a shining example.

I chose to focus on twin studies whenever I had freedom to choose essay topics, because twins fascinate me. I found more than I bargained for. The nature vs nurture debate is the most contested, never settled, debate in psychology, and well - prior to ethics rules prohibiting such, there were some twin studies that really really seem to show that Nature wins out (the short reductive version is they separated twins from a broken home at birth and gave one a lesser/fucked up upbringing and gave the other a cushy upbringing, and they both turned out poorly). That is not to say that nurture has no effect, and it doesn't mean that people cannot change. But if it's in your blood, then it's a verrry verrry uphill battle to say the least.

This is part of why Millie saying John had an anger issue from the start doesn't surprise me. It also is reinforced by the fact that he is surrounded by people who are encouraging him otherwise, and he tries, but it just isn't enough at this point (and as we know, ultimately isn't enough in the end).

John volunteering for Vietnam is partially about being lost without his dad, sure yeah. But it's also a license to channel the violence.

In a way, after getting back from the war, the letter from Henry was basically the fucked-up Hogwarts letter John had been waiting for, wanting for. It lead him on a quest (giving purpose) and to hunting (means of channeling the violence).

2. The Draw of Mary

His need for purpose and connection to this life is a major draw. The letter allegedly from Henry brought him here, but what's keeping him here? He found out the truth. So....

Saving the world is one, but he said it in this scene - that's kind of an afterthought. He and Mary both recognize here that he's using her as an excuse to stay in this. But why?

Because he needs hunting as a license for violence. He can't get that outside of war - so he's found a war to fight in.

3. Angel interference

Have you noticed how everyone is needling them about getting with each other? You could argue Millie doing that is normal bc she's his mom.

But what about Tracy doing that with Mary?

Or Ada encouraging her?

I don't think any of them are possessed or anything like that, but that they themselves have been influenced.

The effect is more powerful if they can make it come from trusted sources rather trying to brute force it. So of course they would try that route first.

Just like the Akreida have manipulated them into feeding them power, the angels can manipulate them into feeding the relationship.

[outofthecavern]

💙💚💙💚

Enjoy the clowning folks cause these clown shoes ain’t going nowhere

[dotthings]

Two points to keep in mind about already established SPN canon:

John and Mary had their memories wiped by angels in 1978. That plot point was on Kripke’s watch. Angel mind wipes are already canon. While I think the prequel is going to turn out to be even more complicated, one possible explanation for how John didn’t know about monsters after he knew about the hunting world is right there, in a plot point offered during Kripke’s og run on the show.

We know from late seasons that Mary either didn’t forget her hunting memories, or she got those back soon after 1978. This is just spec, but if she got her memories back early on, and John didn’t, that would fit, and I have a theory about “I went to Missouri and I learned the truth”

What if he didn’t just learn monsters are real. What if he got all his memories back, about the hunting world, about the monsters he and Mary faced when they first knew each other. The memory of all that horror he encountered flooded back in all at once. On top of his grief and shock. So it’s triple trauma.

Canon already showed us a Young John who was kind and open-hearted and more innocent. Canon already revealed, in bits and pieces, that John’s story was a descent. An open-hearted good person mindful of others turned into a revenge-obsessed abusive father who weaponized his children for his crusade. Already canon. On Kripke’s watch. The Winchesters isn’t retconning in that John was a kinder person once. That’s already canon. And sympathy for Young John…is the point.

I also don’t think it’s going to be nearly as simple as the canon tentpoles make it appear to be. What the prequel is going to do—by Jensen’s own words—is take canon tentpoles such as the 2 I mentioned, and give further elaboration.

What we think happened isn’t the whole story. All our speculations could be wrong. But the prequel isn’t knocking down or ignoring the existing canon tentpoles, it’s going to be filling it in and revealing a fuller picture. Maybe it’ll rip up a few pages and subvert a few expectations too. If you watched the original run of the show, you should know that is sometimes standard operating procedure on Supernatural.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

It's Dean pulling back the Chuck filter we peeped in Ghostfacers

[keagan-ashleigh]

Hi! I don't know if I'm onto smg but I took some notes about the box's poem in The Winchesters, bc I felt like there was something weird in the way it seems to be a direct message to us...

Thought I'd share it here - those are unorganized thoughts, I will maybe go further into it later.

Follow the path of I toward Heaven

Second spot is four less seven

Find the fourth behind Hells door

Six suns set on the Western floor

I will always lead you there

Ending the darkness that we all fear

What is this referring to? (besides the obvious aka the way to open the box)

• ​Heaven is where Dean is currently, and maybe he wants to lead us there bc this is ultimately where is the thing he wants to show us

• "The path of I" - the way it implies "I" is a god-like entity, or God, even, who lives in Heaven. Spn has established God = the narrator so what if "I" here is the narrator?

• ​Imagine if numbers = spn seasons - s4 & s7 - s4 introduced Castiel (ohoh!) and 7 is the whole Leviathan and Godstiel thing, it's when Dean and Cas get sent in Purgatory. So - s4 less s7, means Castiel's arc story without his descent in madness? s7 is known to be the worst season for most - on a meta level: what would've happened if the situation had been different? What spot would they be in if s7 didn't happen ? What if Chuck didn't write it this way? idk

→ it's less like s7 and more like s4 ? will we get the thrill of this 1st meeting? given that TW tells the story of John & Mary's meeting - mirroring Cas/Dean meeting (cf the entrance scene in trailer), it's kind of a retelling of that story - second spot = second show, second story, we're getting back to that s4 moment, w less of s7 nonsense? or w/o s7 Cas & Dean separation?

s7 also first meeting w Charlie who had the other most brutal BYG of the show

Other interesting things abt s7: Dean forgives Cas, Bobby gets hurt, Dean sent back in time, the "facing your fears" episodes, intro of Kevin Tran, Sam haunted by Lucifer, etc...

But the main thing about s7 to me is how it ends w Purgatory AND the fact Cas wasn't planed to be a series regular this season (tvline 20th may 2011 see fr wiki)

• ​"find the fourth behind Hell's door",wow, if number = season, s4 being sent in Hell, like, the whole Castiel arc being sent to hell bc of the ultimate choices made in last season by writers/Chuck - also s4 starts w Dean in Hell, being raised from Hell by Castiel

• ​​Six suns set on Western floor - idk yet

- Sun: positive, light, warmth

Sunset : Dean driving in sunset

Sun setting: ending of day

- 6, 6 like what? dean + sam + cas + mary + john + jack: family?

6 main chars: Mary, John, Carlos, Latika, Ada, Millie

6 writers ? (which)

obv 6= hexagon (box shape)

Random: 6= Dream Theater, 6th song of second disc Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence: following 6 chars w diff mental illnesses

Aristotle's 6 elements of tragedy : plot (mythos (which means LIE lmao)), character (ethos), diction (lexis) , thought (dianoia), spectacle (scenic effect) (opsis), song (music) (melos)

In religion: seraphs have 6 wings, 6 points of David star, creation in 6 days, is "perfect number"

Also: virgo 6th astroloical western sign, sixth sense, us army radio call sign (rainbow six),

- western, cowboy hats

western: america? Hollywood ? western canada: Vancouver? idk

• ​I will always lead you there : Dean/Jensen saying "this is where I want this story to go, that's the plan"

• ​Ending the darkness that we all fear - in text the darkness we all fear is death, pain, suffering, and facing our sins, basically. The poem on a litteral level says tge suns/positive stuff will end death and suffering that demons represent. This much is obvious. You can't end death though, it's a natural thing that's meant to happen. Unless you're in a story and your death has been wrongly written UH OH we got something there ! 👀

• The darkness could very well be the Empty / bad writing / homophobia on a meta level. We all fear it, "we" the audiance, the queer audiance that's been here since s4. We all feared queerbaiting and Cas' death and Dean's death and that's what happened in spn. Jensen / Dean tells us, if he's speaking here, "fear not my gays, all will be well because this fear of yours is over, we're going to fix it, to cast the darkness (death & separation of those chars) away.

Note about the runes in the picture:

- ingwaz/ing (associated with Yngvi/Freyr - fertility god, commands rain and sun light, brother of Freyja goddess of love (and according to me goddess of shipping lol) ) / means protection

- not an original futhark - means energy, maybe a combination of the o and r of a latin version of the futhark / also looks like a reverse fehu + raidō (f and r) - I am not knowledgeable enough to trace its origins.

I am no expert I'm guessing by the look of the letters but go see the Wikipedia page.

In internet esoteric culture it's protection and energy.

Given that we know Richard is returning maybe foreshadowing Loki/Gabriel.

I don't know if it's right I just laid my thoughts randomly, it is not a completed work. The whole thing just sounds like Jensen/Dean talking directly to us about his plan in narrating this story, it makes a clear parallel between John and Mary and Dean and Cas, and also he takes Chuck's place here, in a way, and is going to set the record straight on it all, fix some wrongs, give a new frame of reference for reading spn, you know what I mean? Goes along with the whole "I'm chosing the music"/" the main villain is a DJ", etc, implying Dean is becoming the driver of the whole narrative. It's all very symbolic and I'm really liking the level of meta here.

[charcubed]

They literally mentioned Swan Song (peace or freedom?) in the episode where Fucked Up Jack Who Might Actually Be Chuck semi-threateningly told Dean to get around to the part of the song that says “there’ll be peace when you are done.”

In contrast to the whole prequel show where Dean, as narrator in control, has been picking the music.

Bitch.

I remain on my bullshit (@chuckwon).

[chuckwon]

I’m absolutely obsessed with how they chose to have Jack still feel “Off” in The Winchesters, and as a result even more people are now noticing or taking a second look at the initial fuckery.

The spnwin finale / Dean’s narration is set within the context of 15x20, but Jack wasn’t even shown in 15x20. Jack was last shown to us 15x19, and we saw that he had very Fucked Up vibes after ostensibly absorbing Chuck’s power. Before that, we also saw that Chuck orchestrated Jack’s sacrifice throughout the season because it’s there if you look for it.

But the end of 15x19 is a fairly quick scene with little examination. And then in 15x20 we were TOLD (not shown) that Jack fixed Heaven, that all is great in that regard, and that Cas is back (🤔). So y’know, 15x20 is like… Dean’s death obviously fucking sucks, but cosmologically things are fine now at least! Right? Sure.

So plenty of people took what 15x20 told us about Heaven at face value, leaned into that as the final say, and let it supersede what 15x19 showed in regards to Jack. Even within fandom… I find that Jack being “new God” isn’t always seen as a vital element that needs fixing. (To be clear: I say this with no judgement because everyone had to process or fix the finale however they could 😵‍💫)

So in The Winchesters finale, they could have leaned into the implied veneer from 15x20 that Jack being new God is totally fine and then showed us that, aligning with what we’d been told. They could have had Jack act like his normal self again to really cement that things are good on that front, and that wouldn’t have necessarily been incompatible with how Dean is grieving and his story isn’t over. Hell, they could have avoided including Jack at all since he’s not in 15x20!

INSTEAD..… Instead they not only included Jack but also said “we’re gonna give you a longer look at how fucked up Jack seems.” They CHOSE to leave that door open and make Jack’s vibes consistent with 15x19 in a way that’s thrown the issues with him more into the spotlight, while mentioning how Chuck had more fail safes and plans than anyone knew. And what primary purpose or function did Jack serve in the episode? Telling Dean to stop meddling as if he has freedom and to get back to his ending of peace. That’s literally why he shows up.

This makes the Chuck won and finale mirroring throughout spnwin feel more pointed and I can’t wait to dissect it.

I love it!!!!!!! I LOVE that the fuckery is still afoot, and that the potential for making this allegory about censorship into a core plot is still in play for a sequel 👁👁 I AM OBSESSED

[winterstaryu]

Okay but I actually really liked episode 5?? Yes it had issues, but John and Mary confronting the moment she found out monsters were real, that moment being almost Identical to when Sam experienced the EXACT SAME THING. John saying that 'no kid should ever have to go through that' !!!!!! Her comforting her childhood self, saying it's /okay/ to be scared, and PROMISING THAT EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE OKAY. AND THAT SHE'S GONNA FIND A WAY TO BRING BACK ALL THE POSSIBILITIES SHE THOUGHT WERE LOST TO HER. Followed by Windmills of your mind, which is a song about cycles, and being stuck in a endless loop. Literally it was originally written to play along a movie scene where a character just glides in circles. Just. Fucking devastating. I remember this interview, with Drake iirc, about the show being about the 'degradation of John Winchester, and about Mary Winchester wanting freedom but being caught in this endless cycle she's unable to escape' WHICH JUST. AHSGAHJJJ.

[spn2006]

the fact that eric kripke isn't even christian really adds something to the way christianity is depicted on supernatural. because its really not about being christian at all, but about living in america, a country dominated by christianity, and having to decide for yourself how to handle that. faith is huge in supernatural, and the mythology of the show is very bible-centric, but notably, christ is never there. even sam, who starts out revering the angels, who once said he prays every night, doesn't actually call himself a christian or imply that he believes in jesus--the show is steeped in christianity and biblical lore and yet neither sam nor dean are christians. in fact, over and over again the church itself is depicted as a haunted house that sam and dean will only ever enter as strangers, as outsiders. priests, preachers, faith healers, chapels, crypts, etc. are all just iconography that create an intense sense of unease that sam and dean respond to instantly. as a jew, its very relatable. an essential part of living in america when you're not christian is that exact sense of unease, of knowing that the culture of your country has ensured that you'll get knocked over by christianity no matter where you go, that you'll see hundreds of people truly believing they're good people while doing awful things in the name of their god, and you have no choice but to confront that. kripke gets it

[alfalfapie]

my new Destiel theory: Dean couldn't say I love you not because of his own denial of the fact but because Chuck refused to write it like Chuck's weird psycho-sexual obsession with Dean made him so twisted that rather than allow his character to follow a natural arc that the character itself wanted to follow (see s8 rewrite of "I love you" into "I need you"), he just kept dodging it through increasingly ridiculous and pathetic ploys. he couldn't bear to watch Dean choose free will (Cas) over his heavenly ordained plan, so he just kept fucking with their relationship (see every divorce/widower arc, and all the other will they/won't they shit). really puts Cas's "What's real? We are." into context. like they are, in fact, the only real thing, despite Chuck's attempts to dismantle their relationship.