#they're not endgame but they're still canon lol

[shivieroy]

damn the loki fandom can't even distinguish the words "canon" and "endgame" 😭

[chaoticeddie]

ARE YOU TELLING ME BUCK AND EDDIE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY BEEN TOGETHER THIS ENTIRE TIME

hsksjdks despite the child they're raising together and their extreme reactions every time the other is in danger and their extremely homoerotic scenes together, no. no they have never been together in the show.

eddie added buck to his will so that if eddie dies his son christopher goes to buck instead of his biological family. there are so many scenes in which eddie and buck go to each other for comfort and hang out raising christopher together. they went on a poker date last season after buck gained some crazy math skills after getting struck by lighting. buck tried to dig eddie out of a collapsed well with his bare hands. he dragged eddie out of an open street with an active shooter after eddie got shot. buck went to eddie's house and fell asleep on his couch after getting overwhelmed by everyone else in his life hovering after he got struck by lightning. these are just a few of the scenes where they act completely different with each other than they do with the rest of their friends and family. and yet no, they have never been together in the show.

[blindtaleteller]

Just out of curiosity... Is it really in character of Loki to replace Odin with magic like he does at the end of TDW?.. A part of me feels like it is tainted with hasty writing (which fits the narrative regarding how this was a change mid-production). If Loki truly survived the attack by the Cursed, what seems most in character for him to do? Getting on the throne of Asgard doesn't seem that likely to me, to be honest..

This one is gonna be long I think, because asking that particular question, tells me you've missed a few things. Nothing wrong with that; it happens. (I do know a lot but even I forget to add or remind myself of certain bits too now and again: which is yet another reason why I do watch and re-watch the content over and again, and seek out creators and actors interviews from the era from varied angles.)

I wish the current creators paid a decent fraction as much attention mind you, but that' as whole other thing and annoyance.

Anyway! Here we go again~

It does make the most sense choice wise, actually; that Loki would take the throne in 2013: and it has nothing to do with wanting the throne itself as implied and said outright repeatedly by current creators and their "scripts."

While there are a LOT of reasons to do so with what's going on in the story both immediate in Thor the Dark World itself and otherwise? Most of them, and the reason why Loki absolutely would keep the throne for the next five years boils down to the same reason used to attempt to execute him on his return, and ultimately put him in the dungeon to end up as the major reason Asgard's people were spared a prolonged siege at a time when their defenses had been almost entirely decimated.

The ultimate answer boils down to the not-so-hidden Chekhov's Gun for the overall story of the first sequence/series of MCU films.

I say it that way in particular, because in this case.. they started setting up for it back in 2009-11 with Captain America the First Avenger and the first Thor movie as well. Iron Man 2 released in 2010, had some part setting up details for Avengers 2012 as well; though some of them are mostly less important in regards to this particular ask, for the era and subject we're talking about here.

They did this incredibly well though, when you look at the way the set up was constructed.

Basically, there are two layers of story being told in most Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies of the era; if you didn't notice.

1. Local Story, the story that wholly belongs to the title; era and or immediate characters.

2. Universal and or Overall Story belonging to the universe in which those local stories are taking place.

Remember this guy? I'm pretty sure you do but..

One of the things that people love to forget (or more often pass over as taken for granted) is that Thanos is the person who ultimately snatched Loki up, purely with the intent of getting another stone (Tesseract) into his hands. (Of course there was never any promise Loki would rule over 8 billion rather than 4 billion either, and well. That kind of action; taking half the population then rather than 2018: is established repeatedly as being very much in Thanos' character too.)

I say one of though, because the fact that the Mind Stone (Scepter) was in Thanos hands well before that was established in the very first scenes of Avengers 2012.. before they even put a single character on screen.

In a scene that, tells the viewer outright why Loki was the one chosen; and what they want. This scene is a lot more than just a foreword to catch up viewers who hadn't seen Captain America or Thor at the time. This is also the first not-so-subtle mention of their Universal Story Chekhov's Gun, Thanos.

To break it down for you real quick:

------pre-Universal story set up.

1 - (2010) Tony Stark creates a new-to-earth element (Badassium.. lol I didn't name it, they did) replacing the palladium in the reactor in his chest with this element. Black Widow (Natasha Romanov) is introduced.

----this sets up in minor ways for the Mind Stone: a more believable reason and mechanic for Stark being immune to the Scepter being used on him at the top of the tower at the beginning of the Battle for New York. (There are other mechanics like this set up in the previous IM movies as well: including his brief float in space otherwise ignoring physics of human body and suit versus a lack of atmosphere, gravity or air pressure. [IM1]) But it also introduces Nat and her position in SHIELD into the Universe, rather than just throwing her on screen in A1.

2 - (R May 2011)This film is the heavy lifter as far as Universal story goes. It doesn't just introduce one or two major characters in the Avengers; but THREE of next movie's three major, main characters and their place in the universe are introduced and built: As well as giving the first glimpses of the Universe at large.

There is a reason why Loki and especially Asgard where he is after Thor's banishment, has more screen time than Thor in the opening title film, and the Universal Story is that reason.

(This one is going to be among the largest, because it contains some of the intent behind the character as he is in the MCU.)

FEIGE: "The movie, very much, is an origin of Loki, almost as much as it is an origin of Thor. We had to ride that balance." BRANNAGH: " I think the connection, if there is one, is that the stakes are high. So, in something like Henry IV or Henry V, where you’re wondering if that young prince could be the king and whether he’s the right man for the job. That story arc of the flawed hero who must earn the right to be king is in our piece, but what’s key is the stakes. There, it’s Europe and England, and here, it’s the universe. When that family has problems, everybody else is affected. If Thor throws a fit and is yelling at his father and is banished, suddenly the worlds are unstable." I: Can you talk about casting Tom Hiddleston for Loki? BRANNAGH: "From the performance point of view, we needed somebody who was complex and could convey intelligence. There was a constant conversation between us all about whether it was a good thing to keep the question mark over the character of Loki throughout. Is he bad? Does he have a plan? Does he love his brother? Does he hate his brother? Does he hate his father? Is this happening before our very eyes? How does he truly react to the secrets and lies that emerge, in the course of the story? So, you needed someone who could be adept at putting on all those masks and making it seem seamless." [Link to the full Interview HERE.]

Granted Brannagh summarized Thor's part IN throwing that Universe into chaos more than a bit, but yeah. (his shit fit from a less personal view included breaking peace treaty with a no border crossing agreement between two entire worlds, threatening and then killing the residents in the process, and then throwing another fit in defense of that TO get banished: and furthering that later on as the source of that problem through the extra treason of ignoring his very and repeatedly stated light punishment for that first set of acts of treason: by attempting to return from that punishment against the order of not one but two kings [interim and prior] to have the Destroyer sent after him only then.)

As you can see through Brannagh's words in particular though; Thor as a movie (and Asgard in particular) was aimed as one of the major contributing factors and powers in the MCU Universe and Universal Story from concept one.

Asgard (and T1 as a result) as a power and society was set up and built as a major pivoting point and joint for the Universal Story, with all the power, knowledge, flaws, limitations societal and otherwise needed to forward that story.

Brannagh was not just and only aware of that and the scope to which a universal monarchy and having that monarchy including Thor and Loki as main characters would stretch: he and the creators of Thor and the Universe including Feige were VERY aware of it.

And it kept all the way through to IW and EndGame, and would have even if Loki had not kept the throne.. if at a much higher cost. (We'll get to that; though I'm betting with this taken into account you can figure out some of why.)

All that kept to one side, this film introduced Asgard's current ability as a technologically advanced Conquerer-type Imperialist society, rather than gods; but also and temporarily disabled the Bifrost as their most used and fastest known means to deliver larger numbers to Earth, at the time of the movie's release. It likewise released Loki for his role in the Avengers 2012 and in their Universe at large: and set up for Guardians of the Galaxy in subtler ways to start off the Other and Thanos as the ones conducting the Invasion and looking for the Infinity Stones.

Needless to say, juggling all that in one film before the Universal Story hit, made giving their other introduction and Universal story mechanic on the Earthen end a little hard to squeeze in; but they did manage to introduce both Hawkeye and Selvig in the same movie setting on top of that: and added the end credit scene to establish further connection during Thor's banishment: by further involving SHIELD in his and especially Mjolnir's arrival.

Like I said.. heavy lifter of a film. Brannagh did a beyond amazing job with everything he was made to juggle both in film and setting up for the next two: one of which was in production at the same time as the one he was chosen to direct.

3. (R July 2011 [1940s]) Coming out later that year, CA:tFA took the next (and the one at the time unknown previous) page that the end credit scene showed us in that set up, to establish how the cube and Stone got there, a feel for it's danger in the wrong hands and how it ended up on Earth still in 2012 at all: again tying to SHIELD as Earth's portion of that Universal Story, using Asgard's pivot point to advance the plot and add the final Avenger (which lol at the title 'The First Avenger' for that reason and others: someone had a giggle at the name I'm sure). The Tesseract first seen in the end credit scene of Thor; is properly introduced immediately, as A. having been in Asgard's hands before leaving it in the charge of humans, and B. Stolen by Schmidt who knows and tells us this as he's stealing it from it's guardians descendants (right out of their ancestor's grave and dead hands) for Nazi/Hydra gain. The Tesseract (along with Schmidt and Rogers) is lost somewhere over the Atlantic.

----this movie sets up quite a few more things, and uses that gap in time to do so without need for a whole other movie. Cap's presence in 2012. What's really fun and interesting though, is just how afr ahead this one was running it's projected Universal Story aim: even if only in The Tesseract being reclaimed by SHIELD and Hydra sometime between 1945 and 1970 just before Tony's birth in that same year of 1970 (remember, Hydra were unidentified as being in SHIELD all the way up to 2014.)

Hydra's existence, threat, and eventual reveal in CA:TWS resulting in the Mind Stone they stole* while within SHIELD after 2012 to only be recovered three years after that in 2015. Bucky Barnes was introduced in this first film; and while his character on it's own doesn't do a whole lot for the Universal story.. where and what organization he's found in that he resurfaces as forced a part of, does: as the Universal Story in CAtWS connects from CAtFA and Avengers, to GoTG; and leads straight to Ultron where it's finally recovered, and more importantly to revealing the Infinity Stones for what they are.. as well as telling the viewer outright that of the six stones as of Age of Ultron?

We have already seen four of those six stones on screen.. and, three of them have been in Loki's presence if not directly in his hands as of 2013 the year after 2012. (Tesseract twice, Scepter, and Ather: and in that chronological order.)

(*Side note: Errrr, is it stealing when Hydra were running SHIELD more than Fury at that stage after Howard Stark's death: and they just kinda handed it to Rumlow and Pierce without question for two years? idk, that's more than a little iffy in a lot of ways lol!)

Anyway, again that pivoting point is straight-away Asgard, and Odin in particular. Though they make when it arrived on Earth ambiguous in CA:TFA, the Other's dialogue from that opening Avengers 2012 scene mentioned way up there at the top? Tells us outright that the Tesseract was left there AFTER the war with Jotunheim.

The line among the few I'm talking about in particular is:

" The Tesseract has awakened. [...] But our ally [Loki] knows it's workings as they never will. " - The Other, Avengers 2012, Opening Scene

(Another set of side notes: the inflection and especially emphasis being where it is in that dialogue was pretty interesting and a bit odd back then, prior to Thanos being properly unveiled as the Other's keeper two years later. Right away that opener tells you outright what they want from Earth at that moment[tesseract & the stones], the fact that the one speaking isn't in charge either [Thanos being behind the Other and Chitauri], that they are not the only army available to them [he says our Chitauri, not our army or armies: see Ronan the Accuser] and that they're willing to go war and kill on an interstellar level to get it [self explanatory].)

(There's also how Schmidt disappears as shown in this film. Reminder: while we generally know that Asgard put the Tesseract on Earth sometime during Loki & Thor's adult lifetime, we don't know when Asgard got it. BUT. The visuals alone at the end of CAtFA have some pretty big implications in that direction. More so as TDW shows us that there's a certain technology in play as far back as Bor's time. Here's a gif.. Look kinda familiar, Thor fans..?)

Here's one I've shared before, from TDW itself to visually remind us where we've seen that kind of things repeatedly:

(Yep. That's the Bifrost being used 5,000 years ago to bring in Bor's army and steal the Aether, y'all. It also shows us something else: that the Bifrost can be held in long spurts without destroying the planet it's pointed at becoming an immediate thing. Combine this with Loki's knowledge and hm... that raises some other interesting facts and extra questions about the Bifrost scene at the end of Thor 2011 too, doesn't it.)

Okay so! Some who see this might ask 'Why is all that important?'

Welp.. the answer is in the question at the very top of this ask.

Asking about Loki, and his taking Asgard's throne at the end of Thor the Dark World...

The answers are yes, especially because motivation, all that backstory (both directly on screen and what was established and cemented as canon even off it for years by the creators, for that story to work [yes click that link if you haven't seen the breakdown of the year between Thor 2011 and Avengers 2012],) and more pointedly the fact that Loki by that point after the end of The Dark World: not only knows someone is pursuing the Infinity Stones, and knows very well how the Tesseract in Asgard's vault at this stage would help Thanos collect the rest.. but!

Loki has also up close and personal just been introduced to a third, formerly lost/hidden Infinity Stone being revealed and claimed in a very loud, very public way, by a just as universally known power he himself has intimate knowledge of... Asgard [if through Jane/Earth: and gawds but Bor was just as bad about hiding vital and fatal info as Odin turned out to be, sheesh.]

And here's the extra addition to that motivation to stay and take that throne in a way that also knocks out all threat FROM Asgard and it's allies: the person who tortured him and is seeking those stones has already threatened his life more than once in pursuit of them, and promised to hunt him down if he didn't get what he wanted then in 2012.

(If you missed it by the way? The dialogue, inflection and expressions there both show and tell us right away that they don't trust him NOT to keep the Tesseract from them: even if Loki doesn't fail in 2012. There's no reason to use up the extra airtime, or hit him with pain immediately after, to triple down on it otherwise. The Other, and Thanos by extension; do not trust their hold on Loki: or that he will give them what they want in other words. They don't trust him to succeed [purposely or not] and they don't trust him not to gank both Stones completely out of their already distant reach. (Which and lol he absolutely does manage to do anyway, by putting up neon info signs, really gone-ham public and personal displays, riling the trashed initiative team up left and right, leaving Barton behind on purpose knowing he was coming, and definitely missing the slant of a sloped sky scraper AND the landing pad loop when he tosses Stark into account? It was brilliantly done as was and without that examination, but when you take all that into account too.. oof..! The higher probability that the plan was internally wrecked by the underlying knife of absolute spite for his torturers this character likely pulled off; was just plain beautiful, and clean AF. Just sayin'.)

But and no, Thanos didn't get what he wanted in gambling even the one stone he did have in 2012 in order to try and pick up that second stone.

Obviously.

So they (and we) had more than enough of the potential motivation put down both on screen and off it, over the course of four years (including IM2 production preparing for it in that foundation) but is that still enough to take the risk, and go for the throne?

( ⬆️ Loki's appearance on arrival in Avengers 2012 after his time with Thanos as originally intended; prior to toning it down in order to fit the PG-13 rating the studios were aiming for to increase audience.)

YES, it was.

Even if only temporarily at first, taking Odin off his throne insures Loki's freedom from pursuit on Asgard's end: as he is now king of those pursuers, and a great deal more overall autonomy even outside of Asgard.

This puts him in direct control of the King's Vault, in which the Tesseract [possible means of escape, while within the reach of that greater tech level etc] is being held: and which again.. Thanos [again threatened & tortured him] still wants, and he knows this.

(⬆️ On-screen Example 1 of what it was like even to be claimed as family, by Thanos. Loki was not, family.)

On top of that, in the long term; his position as King allows him to have a broader sight that running or hiding would not: thanks to Asgard's position as a Known-Universe-sized Imperial Protectorate encompassing multiple Worlds and or Galaxies .. including Earth where the Mind Stone (and Time) is, Xandar (Power shows up just a little under a single year later during his reign,) the Kree (same.) And a much greater ability to prepare (keeping those stones as separate as possible, as he does as the King on the throne who sends Reality to the Collector) and see Thanos coming when he does as a result.

Ultimately, even if temporarily: taking the throne at this stage and in this situation is absolutely within his character, even not wanting it. The massive tactical and personal advantages with Thanos alone, which that position with his knowledge; would provide him with a great deal of capability and reach for a very minimal amount of effort, and especially lives and time lost going the other route..? Were not only on display for two years worth of films to call on, but are pretty hard to excuse passing on in his situation at that time, for any reason.

(⬆️ On-screen Example 2)

There are and were other routes available yes: quite a few of them being he was and likely still is a hero everywhere BUT Earth*. But each and every one of them was that much more dangerous, and lacking in protection both for himself personally and for anything left of what he might have wanted to save of any of those also involved: including Asgard.

(*And yes some of those civilizations might maybe question him and that bad guy status a little: but let's be honest. Confronted with the facts of how all that and Thor's mess ups with Jotunheim actually went down, which Loki also knows about both first hand and in depth, and could easily call out just as publicly [and has in some of my fics]... it's not incredibly likely other societies and especially their leaders responsible for their lives, would choose to indulge Asgard's pride and arrogance at the risk of something like Thanos being allowed to continue to run loose after at least decades of halving populations like Gamora's, Drax's through Ronan, and possibly Nebula's [unconfirmed]. There would be a process to that too though; and time spent correcting all the messes that would cause for him to clean up in order to move forward with fewer obstacles as a result, possibly years if not centuries depending on location and how little they know.)

Taking Asgard's throne (even temporarily) while the majority of big players were either dead at that point[Frigga], weakened [Odin was putting Thor up for king in T1 to take his place & putting off Odinsleep at least 2 years prior to TDW] or occupied/distracted with the final death throes of the Dark Elves [Thor, pretty much everyone else] was the cleanest and safest way to ensure his life, his safety, and his freedom.

Even if, only short term.

Add on the other bonuses being in that seat "wearing the old goat's face" (yeah I borrowed that line from GROUNDED's Tony muse) and well.. there are too many more reasons to do it than not.

The other option has him either trying to escape Darkalfheim to a planet NOT Earth or Asgard to keep from being noted or picked up, before he's found first and knowing Asgard is and has been pursuing him (and Thor) since Thor broke him out of the dungeon: or trying to escape Asgard itself: with very little influence or power to do anything about both the person who tortured him coming after him as promised.. OR Asgard coming after him.

Because there is another thing that would have come out, with Odin still on the throne: is the fact that the body there [if he used a decoy, like one of the elves corpses left behind, or even the guard sent] was not his. Which would have led to immediate search and pursuit, and likely Thor being part of it after dealing with Malekith.

In these scenarios, Loki would have to pursue a counter to not only Asgard itself or Earth's established [and re-established through Jane's reaction] perceptions of him; but also Asgard's political reach as well in order to maintain his freedom, and actually start to counter Thanos before the slurpee stain could reach either, and potentially reclaim if not claim the stones: because they WOULD become an obstacle.. if not because of Odin and Thor [both of whose positions are made blatantly and glaringly clear where Loki is concerned in that same film, repeatedly and reflected on top of that in the entire scene with Thor's friends threatening him, as well as Frigga's own gaslighting scenes prior to her death as the Queen who should have taken her throne in T1 and in the dungeon in TDW.] then definitely because of the Other and Thanos, both of whom were very much alive and still running around the outer edges of the Galaxy until the Other was killed by Ronan in 2014.

Whether he's solely protecting himself, or looking to set up revenge, Loki, Thor, and Asgard's Local story in the MCU was designed to be part of if not heavily intertwined with the Universal Story before we saw any of them on our screens. And, if you're picking up a crafting story any time after 2011 in canon in that Universe.. that's gonna, and should be a thing.

Sad (and more than a little pitiful) that current creators ignore and mock all that and more, along with the efforts of over a decade of that work and hundreds of creators before them, especially in what they're passing for Thor since Gagnarok, or calling the "Loki" series (aka Bob: The Accountant/The Not-Enchantress Show) today*.. but I suppose that's what you get when you pay a bunch of clueless and Odin/Thor-level-arrogant cartoon creators for a twice rejected, unfinished script as the knock-off and fill in for crafting the next part of that story: and then hire their friends to do the next part even worse than the first?

(*Just sayin'. lol! Also yes those are both separate links to just a few examples of what's been going wrong since.)

So.. TLDR...

Yes, it's actually very in-character for Loki to have taken the throne; as a proven and intentionally crafted intelligent and tactically-minded character,* who was raised knowing Asgard's reach and power when a King who uses it properly is seated in that throne.

(*Regardless of what the series tries to tell you to mock viewers otherwise.. those scenes stating otherwise about Loki's character in S1 and now in S2 still makes me laugh my ass off at the stupidity and ignorance on display in this regard especially: as they tell you outright that absolutely no one who might have cared on the BTS team watched an ounce of the Avengers movie they want you believe the character came directly from, any of Thor 2011 before it, and definitely not TDW or Guardians to guess never mind know even remotely accurately as to the TITLE CHARACTER's characterization or motivations, of their own series; to get it THAT wrong on purpose... to the extent that, they have to put those kinds of words in his and other characters' mouths through the "scripts" they wrote and put on screen.)

I do however and as an addition: think Loki probably hated it from day to day.

After all, everything he did to stop if not pause Thanos and buy time; was done so with Odin's face.. and as a result was credited to Odin, who reminder.. by the time GotG and then Ragnarok ended, we knew was aware of Thanos at the very least (if not through Asgard then through other huge powers in the universe like Xandar and the Kree [Ronan was killing on Thanos behalf, Gamora's planet was halved decades prior]) and sat on his hands rather than face the largest army in the known universe, as it's proclaimed protector.

The leader for which being let run loose like that [Thanos].. was able to snatch Loki up, and the New York Invasion to happen as a result of Odin and Asgard's complacency.

Loki would have been stuck with the prospect of revealing himself and slowing down his potential progress and preparation (including restoring Asgard and it's defenses around the Tesseract in it's vault) over the course of those five years, being pursued for likely execution or maybe the rest of those 3,500 years of solitary confinement Frigga had to beg for as a sitting duck in a literal gilded cage again, running and attempting to keep his autonomy while doing all of that anyway, or ... just taking the throne and keeping his face hidden in order to avoid almost all of any of that and the many variations possible there that would have wasted months if not years of very precious time.

Ultimately, avoiding these things would have cost him in another way too, if he did manage and he knew that; because and again, Loki knew Thanos' game and purpose much earlier than we the viewers did. Sitting aside and hiding was not going to exclude him from the gamble of the snap even if Thanos did not find him, and took the stones without his interference.

Without his interference (and especially after Hydra stealing it in the 40's, and Thanos' first attempt to take the Tesseract from Earth as one very near example of why not to: especially from the outside looking in at that) it remains very probable that Odin would not have moved the Aether at all; as Loki did, wearing his face. Which means that, regardless of whether or not he returned for Ragnarok (which was established even in it's own plot-hole ridden mess of a story) as happening anyway: Thanos still would have collected Space and Reality after Power.. and he would have been able to do so far more quickly with them both in one place.. whether that place was floating space with Loki not there to collect either, or in their hands after the fact because he did think not to leave them in the open and undefended.

There are some ways around this (I've done some and planned out more,) but they're very tricky to do believably: and they still take time, allies, and correcting at least some things (especially perceptions and the break in trust worsened majorly by Odin and Thor) to manage. Sometimes a LOT of all of the above.

What's more, when taking him out into the open after the part he played in saving not only Jane, but also Asgard from Odin's rage filled dumb in TDW?

It's pretty likely that revealing himself on the throne and explaining this shit would have wasted even more time in various ways. But the very first and most obvious thing to become a problem in the realm of big-picture no-nos he definitely would have been aware of is this:

Asgard as a whole at that point and likely after having the story confirmed by Thor, would likely fall into a state of even more chaos in civil war if not a war of succession afterwards: further screwing over their ability to recover their defensive capabilities due to fighting themselves.

Other societies becoming aware could spark the same reaction, if a little later and cause Asgard's reputation, standing and overall influence to crumble as the facts came out. While some of these are avoidable or made less in certain situations: the fact remains that is what Odin set himself and Asgard up for by sitting to the side rather than doing everything in his power as King of an advanced space-faring society in contact with numerous others capable of moving them even without the Bifrost in effect.

It's very likely that, some of those external (and maybe some internal like Vanaheim) would use the very good examples of Odin and Thor's incompetence when dealing with things like Jotunheim (oh wow lets not get into that long list of treason and kid-glove handling of prince raised as genocidal traitor yet again), and Vanaheim (Asgardian colony with no Asgardian defense cannons or ships ..hm that reeks of some serious issues and bigotry too: especially seen in the very same film as those cannons, AND the fact they could transport whole armies via Bifrost 5,000 years prior?) alone, as a springboard to either GTFO Odin's alliance party, or support the idea of Loki being crowned instead of Thor.. if not both.

Anyway. This was really long and I have pulled this whole thing apart so many times in so many different ways that I could definitely keep going.. but I think that's a good enough view of the whys it's very much in character.. and some of what likely would have happened if he hadn't. And yes that emphasis in bold is very much needed.

There are other factors to take into account alongside of all this, including (aka not only) the fact his actual species (yep, don't forget: he's not Asgardian either) is both known at this point, and absolutely despised by Asgardians in particular on top of all that. And, at least some of the generation that hates his kind most --Odin and Frigga's-- are still around to keep carrying that on and attempt to pass it to their kids of the same generation. A thing we know they did already, through the dialogue, responses and and actions of every single member of the Royal family, including Loki's, starting with the very first film.

Remember.. this was the entire reason Thor thought it was completely okay to rack up multiple charges of treason, trespass on a completely different world he was forbidden by both sides from even setting foot on, and then insulting and killing them on the home planet he invaded, in the first place...

..and that fact it was still present, and was in action, was ultimately the root of the reasoning for that banishment.

Incidentally, and as final set of side notes?

This another example of why world building and sticking to the rules of that world/universe as established is necessary, and only serves to make the world and universe the characters are supposed be part of that much stronger and more interesting when done correctly.

Limitations (physical, social, psychological and more) exist in story and in those universes not just as near-laws-of-physics, but sometimes as an obstacle themselves to overcome, or more importantly and most often forgotten?

To work with, rather than around or over; in order to actually accomplish something, or at least give the sense of that accomplishment.

This is at the heart of what it means for a character to earn what they're given and show that, rather than simply getting it for free.

Ultimately I see that choice as Loki exchanging his name and identity, along with recognition for having put Thanos off of killing half the universe with him in it for five years; for the ability to better and more quickly protect himself and the things around him from those threats, not only from Thanos.. but also those threats posed and put into word by Odin, Thor, Sif, and the Yes-men Three.

And he was only able to to that without interruption, because he did make that sacrifice in hand for five solid years by taking Odin's throne and face.

It does fit that Loki absolutely did and as Tom Hiddleston and creators have said: at least try let go of Asgard, Thor, Odin and the rest when he let go at the end of Thor 2011...

..However. It's also very clear even if he hadn't; that Thanos' actions and Odin's and Asgard's inaction, ended up forcing him right back in front of them, whether his remaining anger re-igniited by the Scepter during that missing year had been bolstered as it was, played the part it did on screen or not.

All that said.. it was quite a long way away from hasty or lazy writing. If anything, that would have been true for going through with Loki's death at the end of TDW instead: as the next set in line would have been entirely excused from putting him or any of that story into focus on screen at all, even in what little they did pay attention to it during and after Gagnarok.

The TDW creators simply chose the most obvious path the previous creators had already crafted in their foundations, and laid down the path for them to take in crafting the next with TDW to set up for hte next even after it.

Sucks that it took getting that big an audience reaction in that direction to do so and not be that lazy about it.. but it is what it is.

-

Post-Script and For faster reference and in order from Captain America 2011 on, Loki did/was subject to, the following:

[Pre-1940s: unknown era] Had enough definitive exposure to the Tesseract as prince of Asgard, to be referred to as the equivalent of an expert on the Tesseract. (Given his discovery of the doorways between worlds as put on display in TDW, this makes even more sense than it already did in 2012.)

[2011]Was tortured and influenced both emotionally and mentally by the Other and gifted the Scepter with the intent of further riling and amplifying [that's what fueling means in this instance] his anger towards Thor and Earth's part in helping to release him from his banishment: in return, he's offered rule over Earth and more importantly his freedom from all of the above in that rule after.

[2012] The Mind Stone is used long distance in conjunction with the Tesseract to watch and torture him at a distance on screen as well. It's only functions used on screen otherwise is as a projectile weapon and device to spread that mind control to serve the deal made.

[2013]Helped save Jane & the Reality Stone.

[2013]Helped save an otherwise defenseless Asgard from another siege & Odin's stated intent to die to the last man, woman and child in that fight: at the same time.

[2013]Killed Algrim/Kurse in defense of Thor and Jane; an individual who was so powerful as enhanced by the Reality Stone: that he batted Mjolnir aside like it was a nerf toy.

[2013]Sent the Reality Stone to the Collector, separating what stones he had.

[2013]Kept the Space Stone in it's place in the vault ..and it stayed there for the 5 years of his rule.

[2014] Between Asgard proper as a political and protective power, and his connections to the Collector himself: clearly knew about and did not claim the Power stone, or put it in Asgard's vault either, after it's use there.

[2015] The Mind Stone being removed from Earth, was stated as being Thor's purpose, as directed by the King [Loki.] No intended ending destination was given.

[2017-2018]Rebuilt Asgard, it's homes and it's defenses: well enough that even in and by Gagnarok they were building theaters and statues, and enjoying plays.

( ⬆️ Yeah I wasn't kidding: that's the Kurse nerf-toy mjolnir sequence in TDW, if you missed it.)

[purpleshadow-star]

Inspired by these two posts.

Steve and Nancy showed us that people can fall out of love and that people can realize their true feeling for someone else while still in another relationship.

Dustin and Max showed us what a one-sided, unrequited crush actually looks like.

Nancy and Jonathan show us that the person who gives up their feelings to help the person they love be happy can still end up with the person they love in the end. And they showed us what it really sounds like when people talk about the person they love.

Steve and Robin showed us that two people can still be very close friends despite the fact that one of the people was romantically interested in the other person in the past, and a character's sexuality may not be what it seems.

Dustin and Suzie show us what a healthy long-distance relationship should look like.

Vickie and Robin show us that someone can like someone else of the same gender, despite having dated someone of a different gender in the past, and that a romance can be shown in one season.

Lucas and Max show us that, above all, being friends is an important base for a relationship, and they show us what healthy communication looks like even after months of fighting/ avoidance. They show us that two people can still care for each other and love each other even if they haven't really spoken in a while. They show us what true love really looks like without ever saying the word "love."

Hopper and Joyce show us two people who have known each other and who have been friends for a long time. One has been with other people and was even in a relationship while the other has been pining after them. They show us that these two characters can still find their way to each other in the end.

[noxtivagus]

NO THOUGHTS ONLY SHADOWBRINGERS HFALKDSJFASLKD

[matan4il]

911 ep 706 first watch reactions

Buck and Eddie setting up the bachelor party are so funny. They're married to a degree that the bride and groom can only aspire to one day achieve. And Madney are raising a kid together! Then again, so are Buddie, and have been since day 2... (day 1 is forever Buck ogling Eddie at the station, and Eddie strutting his stuff for him, with Buck's now canonically jealou-traction being the, ummm, lubricant)

Oh, Tommy just arrived, Buck and him have done nothing but hug, and Eddie's already bringing on the jealousy jealou-traction. IDK what is the etiquette about bringing your date to a bachelor party, but what's the rule about bringing your hubby who's jealous of your bf?

Oh, and an extra jab at Buck bringing Tommy officially as his date to the wedding. I love me a jealous Eddie. My dude, your closet is shaking so hard, it's about to push you out of itself if you don't make the move already.

Okay, in all seriousness, Tommy not dressing like the 80's, Buck showing that he really cared about that silly party theme, Eddie rolling with it, the two of them being dressed more as a couple than the actual guys dating, Buddie seeing things so much in the same way (down to both seeing themselves as the same character from Miami Vice) while Buck and Tommy are totally out of sync... I love that Tommy is there to help Buck figure himself out, but also, this is the stuff that will forever keep me shipping Buddie.

I know the flashback is mainly to show that the bachelor party is Buck's idea, and goes against Chim's wishes, but Eddie suggests the couple costume? And Buck was so readily on board? Even when he knew Tommy would also be invited? This is my house catching fire, while I sit here, mumbling to myself how fine it all is...

Okay, everyone leaving the bachelor party, even the guy Buck is dating, while Eddie stays, sure is something. And by "something" I mean "a couple." That's a couple. That's Buck's partner in everything, even dumb ass 80's costumes and failed bachelor parties, he's the one who jumps in whatever stupid plan Buck comes up with, and stays to deal with the mess.

LOL And then we got some REAL mess. Again, dumb Buck idea, and Eddie just rolling with it. Making it worse even, by suggesting how to take the party (made up of people who don't even know the groom) to Chimney. These two deserve each other. XD

Buck was behind Eddie while his shirt was being torn? Presumably helping with the tearing? That's it, 911 does not want me to make it to the end of the season with my sanity intact. I guess it's good that I'm not even trying...

I'm glad there was a representation of Chim and Kevin, and a Korean tradition, I just hope it was a truthful one. (do we have Korean viewers in our midst to chime in on this?)

Maddie using her 911 skills to find and help Chim is pretty badass (and a nice gender reversal of the 'damsel in distress needing to be saved a sec before her wedding' tale). Love it!

Maddie and Chim looked so happy during their wedding. Honestly, at the end of the day, my little hopelessly romantic heart doesn't need more than that. <3

Awwww, the Buck and Tommy kiss was nice. I think the most important part of it is we got to see Buck for the first time daring to kiss another guy, rather than wait to be kissed. I may bbe a Buddie shipper, but I think this r/s is important to Buck as well, to his ability to find what he wants, to not be scared of it, to not wait for others to want him as was the case with all the women he'd dated, but rather figure out what he wants in a certain moment, and that it's okay for him to go get it.

(I still don't think Tommy is Buck's endgame, though. Much as his probably my fave Buck r/s so far other than Eddie. Tommy not being there for Buck when the bachelor party flunked, him not being there at the wedding itself, to share this significant moment with Buck, being almost incidental to Buck's coming out to his colleagues and parents, other than being a gay that was obviously kissed by Buck just a short while ago... Again, just not the stuff great love stories are made of)

Hen going, "Finally!" to Karen was funny and cute. Everyone (almost) just smiling at Buck's coming out was nice. But the way his mom reacted in particular felt more realistic, and made me wish that at least with his parents, who we know he has a strained r/s with, the should would have allowed this to be more explored. Hopefully in a future ep if not now.

Thank you for reading! If you're looking for more, you can find my s7 reactions tag here, and more of my Buddie meta and content in my pinned post. xoxox

[oristian]

Thank youuuu, Maasverse is literally targeted at young adults, they're an easy read lol (which is why I enjoy her work, its mind numbing fun) but people bending over backwards to misinterpret things that are so simple to understand is like... do you need to be right at the cost of making yourself look stupid?? as you said, ship what you want and feel free to do so but saying things are canon that simply aren't is doing THEM a disservice.

And it’s so loudly being wrong that makes it comical. People can hand them a screenshot from the book itself and they will still swear up and down that you’re wrong. Elriel reads flat and without chemistry because that’s how it’s intended to be read. It’s intended to be interpreted as a “buffer” relationship that stands as tension before the endgame. Elriels have also taken all of the characters and given them a fanon makeover—so violently that they’re going to be upset and confused when they read the next book and nothing they projected on the characters exist.

Elriel is a self-insert ship that uses Elain as a pawn to get a smut scene with Azriel. That is all they care about (their fanart more than proves that).

[firelxdykatara]

lol you just know all those "well zutara is bad cause colonization or something" arguments are all bad faith cause like 50% of the time u take a look at the blog that is saying that and they wholeheartely shipping zukka, like i guess the colonization argument doesnt apply if its sokka then.

There's so much 'it's ok if it it's gay' hypocrisy going on in that side of the fandom and it's just so funny to me. Especially when it's coupled with trying to give z/s all the zutara moments and dynamics rather than leaning into Zuko and Sokka's canon dynamic, cause at that point what it tells me is that they really do wanna just ship zutara but they're allergic to m/f ships and don't wanna admit it

So they make up reasons why zutara is bad and problematic, ignore the fact that all of those reasons apply just as much to z/ukka because 'it's ok if it's gay' and then pretend they 'solved' the ship war (by removing the girl the war centered around from the equation). But it's really just hypocrisy all the way down and also probably more than a little jealousy, so at this point I just have to laugh.

And even the people who ostensibly apply the same argument to z/ukka won't say boo about ships like jetko or jinko and I think that's ultimately because neither of those ships are very popular so they aren't a 'threat' to the canon ships the way zutara is for some reason. (I will never understand why k/ataang shippers are so damn insecure. Like even if on the remotest chance the endgame ships in the netflix adaptation are different, it won't affect canon in any way, so WHY do so many of them have such a bug up their ass about zutara being so popular?)

Anyway, I maintain that jetko is the m/m ship that actually deserved to have the massive surge in popularity during the renaissance that z/s got and I'm still bitter about it cause jetko actually has the sauce. (And allows for my favorite atla ot3 without a whole lot of contortion hehe)

[ms-cartoon]

Fans: "OMG IS THIS CANON!"

"DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS????

"ARE THEY ENDGAME???"

Ugh . . . I hope not (I'm gonna get quite a few hate comments for this, lol!). I wouldn't be surprised if they were though. A lot fans seem think they're holding hands which I don't believe they are, I mean-

This does not look like they're holding hands. There's not even a grip. Either Angel Dust's hand happens to be in front of Husk's hand or one hand is just barely on top of the other hand. But if I'm wrong, then its probably just an animation error they need to work on.

As for the trailer all together, I'm glad we finally get to see it! I'm still curious about what the hold-up was. I may have found some sources on why (and I possibly believe them) but who's to say they're actually true or not.

As glad as I am to see the teaser, I feel like it could've been handled better. When I first started watching, it was so fast-paced! I'm seeing one character and not even a second later, a next character shows up in my face. It's like they just mushed a bunch of gifs all together in one box. And I also wish we could've heard some voices too. They're probably either trying to surprise us of who's voicing who or avoiding any hate or comments like "This sounds nothing like the pilot!" Or something like that.

And also, they're already announcing a season 2?

Not that I didn't expect a season 2, but the way they addressed it in the teaser. It kinda makes it seem like to me that they're going to upload season 2 without giving us a chance to see season 1 or they might rush season 1 just so they can hurry with the second season. And, we don't want that.

I just hope I like what I see in this show.

[bebx]

Honestly, I don't get how people can think that Sylki won't be endgame. Are they forgetting that it's Disney? Or that the writer is a Sylki shipper? Let's be realistic. I agree that it would make zero sense, but this argument is lame, because we know Marvel doesn't care and they're capable of doing that. I wouldn't be surprised if they rushed it and pulled "actually Sylvie has been in love with him the entire time, but she's been hiding it, trying to push him away, because she thinks she doesn't deserve love. But she got over it now." Not to be rude, but I feel like everyone who believes that Sylki won't happen is delusional. I really want Lokius to happen, not Sylki, but even the idea of Sylki not happening is too good to be true. I feel like those leaks are true.

the leaks, which came from several people who claimed to have seen the entire season (and they all said the same thing), were correct about Marvel’s revealing that Mobius has 2 sons in episode five. I know it’s just a “rumor” and there’s no way to know if they really did see the entire season, but tbh I expect Marvel to pull the Sylki endgame in the finale (like how those leaks also said they would do that, getting Loki and Sylvie back together in the last episode).

if I had to guess, I’d say it’d go exactly the way you said, that Sylvie was always in love with Loki all along, but didn’t think she deserved to be loved, hence why she tried to push him away.

I would love to be wrong, but I guess we’re all finding out soon.

also I wouldn’t call anybody delusional for thinking Sylki won’t be endgame or that Lokius will be canon, unless it’s in a joking manner where I’m also making fun of myself. but in all seriousness, I don’t think anybody is ever “delusional” for having opinions about which direction the show will go based on what was actually showed so far in the series. because if this weren’t Disney, I’d say Lokius would absolutely go canon, after all those hints and everything they gave us so far. Sylki parting ways as friends and Lokius going canon as a couple are very highly unlikely, but it’s not entirely impossible either.

as for the writer, if you mean Eric Martin, dude’s a troll (and I say this with respect lol nothing against him, I’m sure he’s a good person with good sense of humor), he’s always liked both Sylki and Lokius posts because he knows fans monitor his likes and I fully believe he’s doing it on purpose just to (playfully) mess with the audience. so I wouldn’t take whatever he liked on social media as a “confirmation” of anything, not even his personal opinion about which ship he thinks is “better”.

*and even if he does personally ship Sylki, it’d still be unfair imo to assume he only made Sylki endgame solely because he personally liked the ship. if he’s a professional writer, I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he had other reasons behind his writing choices that had nothing to do with his personal feelings, since after all, the characters belong to Marvel, not him. so his personal preferences shouldn’t be the only factor in deciding which direction things should go. (to be clear, what I mean is: it’s perfectly okay — and it is a good thing — to write a story based on how you, the writer, personally prefer, but I don’t think he’d make Sylki endgame just because he liked it without any other reasons involved when it’s still Marvel’s show and he was hired by Marvel, not his show, if that makes sense.)

[lovemyromance]

So I finished the books of acotar and Im confused, WHAT IS THERE BETWEEN AZRIEL AND GWYN?? I read the bonus chapter of acosf, but that just showed me more of ELAIN AND AZRIEL. Im literally seeing people saying "azriel and gwyn had more chemistry than elain and azriel" LIKE HUH??? like where did this ship come from? I didnt even know about this bonus chapter until I came to tiktok. I thought gwyn was just a side character... I had no idea this was a ship because there is nothing between them that I saw. 😭

Yeah I literally have no idea. I cheated a little when I was reading ACOWAR and looked up fanart before I finished the series. I saw Azriel with this redhead and was so so confused. I thought hm maybe he gets a mate after the war.

Then I read ACOFAS. Was really shipping Elriel but was sad that his fan art was with some redhead other girl. I genuinely at one point wondered if it was Vassa because she was the only other redhead female character I could think of other than Amarantha 😅

It was bothering me so I asked my friend (who was the reason I read the series in the first place). She said she had no idea who that woman was.

And I thought she was just lying to me to avoid telling me spoilers lol so I continued reading. Imagine my surprise when I finished ACOSF, got even more invested in Elriel, and still had no answer.

Then I actually did a deep dive online and found out that it's GWYN they're shipping with Azriel? I was so confused. I asked my friend if there was another book, why is this Gwyn Azriel ship a thing?

She didn't remember who Gwyn was because she read ACOSF immediately when it first came out and hasn't reread since, but that's beside the point.

Then I did some more digging. Apparently a bonus chapter existed which made things more clear? I read it. Still did not understand where the ship came from. If anything, it only cemented Elriel endgame for me.

I said okay, maybe I'm being biased? I made my friend read the BC - she did not even know it existed and she literally has been reading the series since it came out in like 2015 or whatever

But again, that's beside the point.

And before anyone even argues, she was a strong Elucien supporter and would argue with me "no they are mates Elriel is not a thing". I made her read the bonus chapter and she immediately switched to Elriel. She said "yeah ok - there's no going back from that one". She also, did not view the Gwynriel interaction as romantic in any way.

I really don't know where Gwynriel came from. Like I've said over and over again - I understand Elucien. They are canonically mates. A mating bond is all they have, but until disproven, it still counts.

Gwynriel doesn't have that. They barely even interact on the page.

I don't know if it's because people hate elain, or they ship Azriel with themselves and they can't relate to Elain so "hey, here's another attractive straight girl boss I can pretend is me", or they ship Elucien and need Azriel out of the way 🤷🏻‍♀️

Gwynriels literally KNOW there is nothing romantic between the two currently. Their entire ship is based on this concept of "well it could happen" or "what if". That's why I don't take it seriously. They have very limited info about both Gwyn and Azriel and they have allowed their imaginations to fill in the blanks. Then the ship gained popularity and their imaginative scenarios got repeated enough that people began to think that was actually in the books. Then they got confident and began to yell their made up scenarios louder in the fandom.

Most of Gwynriel is rooted in imaginative headcanons. They saw any mention of Gwyn or Azriel and began to fill in the blanks themselves. Aka Azriel trying to excuse himself by saying "I have to go over daggers with Gwyn" suddenly wasn't just an excuse and actually a secret planned date between the two where she got "private dagger lessons" and they talked for hours or whatever. It became real to them even if it didn't exist in the books. They didn't do any fact checking before repeating their HCs over and over until it became the truth to them. And then they went on other shipping posts and started fights over their fake recollection of canon.

Literally just last week, I saw a post about how Gwyn only blushes for Azriel she has feelings for him. That never happened. She blushed for Rhysand, not Azriel.

But the thing is, just because you say something louder than someone else, doesn't mean you are correct.

I really don't engage with Gwynriels because half of them have admitted they haven't even read the books, just the bonus chapter. Or they've just read ACOSF.

Either way, I just see it as a crackship. If they ship it because they find it cute, sure whatever. If they're more active in the fandom, I just scroll past their posts and don't engage. I don't see where they are coming from and they're not going to see Elriel so there's no point trying to convince anyone at this point.

[gendrie]

Realistically, what note do you think or hope the books will end in regard to Arya and Gendry? I don’t expect fanfic wish fulfillment but Grrm seems to have a soft spot for them so maybe a vague romantic suggestion that leaves their future open to interpretation? Which I realize is not much different to where we’re already at lol but I just can’t imagine how their relationship would develop.

when i consider what arya/gendry will look like in the end, or just the future in general, i think about whats already in the text. the elements of romance and even sexuality within their interactions are more than a lil suggestive. ie: the two of them rolling around together is not subtle lol. the phrase "between his legs" is used twice in that paragraph. grrm wrote an exclusive to a/g love song and had the singer wink as he sang it. he introduced not one, but 2 characters mostly just to fan the flames here. gendry explicitly threatens to have sex with a girl to try to make arya jealous and he visibly dislikes a perceived rival for her attention. ect! this isn't some obscure aspect of the story. its a legitimate side plot.

so i wouldn't even describe their existing canon interactions as "vague" therefore i don't assume their future ones, endgame included, would be left entirely up to interpretation either. are they going to get married on page? and consummate the union? no. but i do expect their future interactions to continue to be obviously romantic in nature. esp now that arya is older (and gendry seems to be younger)

with all that in mind here are my realistic thoughts:

when arya returns from braavos she will rekindle her friendship with gendry and realize she's attracted to him. gendry, having endured the loss of arya, will be willing to commit to her regardless of the issues that forced them apart previously. its all going to be pg-13 and tame by asoiaf standards but they will be crushing and it's not going to be a secret. not to the readers nor anyone who happens to witness the two of them together.

as i see it theres two potential outcomes: the class difference is still insurmountable and they remain apart or they end up together in some capacity. this will probably be a controversial claim, but a/g have less barriers to being together long term than any other ship imo. consistently, throughout their relationship, gendry being "too bloody lowborn" for arya is THE issue. its the source of all the conflict between them and its the thing keeping them apart. other than that? they clearly like and admire each other. arya trusts gendry, values his perspective, and confides in him things she tells no other character. she wanted him to come home with her, to be a part of her pack.

and i want to emphasis that arya values gendry's counsel specifically because thats one aspect of their dynamic that feels very relevant within the context of their potential as a grown up couple. they make a good team and work well together. they've already endured the bleakest possible scenarios by working together. gendry is presented as a really fitting partner for arya which i think is intentional tbh.

but ultimately, can the class difference be overcome? i think it can. and not only that but i think arya and gendry ending up together can be reflective of the changes we're going to see across the board with westeros' political system. they're not going to abolish the monarchy, but there will be major changes with how the kingdom is run.

the end i envision for them is fairly understated despite all my arguing that their relationship isnt all that subtle. arya asking gendry to come home with her to winterfell (again) would be enough, but thats not vague to me either. the meaning will be clear.

all that being said HEAs are not going to plentiful in asoiaf. grrm likes "we'll always have paris" type romances where two people meet and change each other, but go their separate ways. it could be that is what happens with arya and gendry. im realistic, if not bordering on pessimistic, so i want to embrace that possibility! but everything on paper is telling me they're supposed to end up together. not least of all bc in order for this romantic build up to actually come to full fruition they have to be grown which won't be until post series.

i try to keep my expectations low too but is it wish fulfillment to expect substantial pay off? idk.......grrm has been teasing love, sex and even marriage with arya and gendry for like the entire series actually. since that "arya has the hands of a blacksmith" comment in the first paragraph of her first chapter. he better do something!!!

[exo-raskreia]

you'll probably won't see this message but i'll send it anyway lol.. i love you speak your mind about how the ichihime ship isn't that great and has all the facts to bring it show that you're right. i always felt scared to say i don't ship ichihime cuz they're are alot of shippers that can get so intense about it. i always say that ichihime is a cute ship and they have their moments(i don't feel that way at all lol) cuz i don't want to be attacked for not liking how their story played out. twitter is a scary place oml💀 and they made me sorta believe that ichiruki doesn't have any chemistry and they're just siblings when i knew in my heart like yes they do have chemistry and are the superior ship. like ichigo cares more for chad and uryuu then orihime. but since their canon, i guess their love for each other is supposed to be legit. apparently ichigo sees his mother in orihime so i don't understand why that's not a turn-off for the shippers😭so yeah thanks for making me go back in my bleach fangirl era and making my 10-year old self to not feel guilty and stupid shipping ichiruki

Wow, thanks so much, anon! And ur welcome! I will forever be on IchiRuki's side no matter what anyone says 😤.

You don't have to be scared to support what was, and still is, the most popular ship in Bleach (and rightfully so). There was no real ship war during its run (despite what the antis try to claim now), as IR was shipped by most of the fanbase. IR had everything you could hope a M/F ship to have in a battle shounen, the most solid basis for becoming canon with just one more step...and yet... (Kubo fumbled 🙄). The theories on that are interesting...

While more than half the IR fandom is no longer active after that disastrous ending, it doesn't mean they're not still out there. I've seen even non-shippers still praise IR & see it as wasted potential & whatnot (triggering antis in the process 🤭). Not being canon doesn't take away from the fact that it is still the superior ship. Anyone with reading comprehension who reads the manga will see it & wonder why they didn't end up together.

IH was never popular in Japan. It was always far below IchiRuki & UlquiHime (Ori's most popular ship 👀. Kubo achieved in ONE arc what he couldn't achieve for IH the entire manga, like-). To this day, those 2 ships get more content than the canon ships 😌.

The antis are just triggered that despite becoming canon, their ship is still. not. popular. IH doesn't have nearly as much content (both canon AND fanon) as IR & UH despite being canon for almost 10 years. Yes, Kubo himself doesn't care enough to give them even one family sketch 🫢.

Compare that to the Naruto endgame ships (mainly NaruHina & SasuSaku), which have way more official AND fan content. Those were always popular, & still are, 10 years later since becoming canon. Pro-Bleach ED fans love to compare their ships with Naruto's yet are nowhere near as popular.

The IH's really thought they would get the NaruHina royal treatment after the ending (you know, like a movie, official drawings from the creator, interviews saying they were meant to be, merch, etc.), but instead only got a novel that wasn't even focused on them (Ren/Ruki is more popular than IH but mainly because of Rukia 🤣), which vaguely went over their so-called "development" & had chicken scratches a rough draft of a sketch for their ship 🫢. Kubo also invalidated the IH's claims that Ichigo always liked Ori, by saying in the JET interview that "vague feelings" began in COLLEGE 💀 (and AFTER Rukia's wedding, mind u). So, whatever the IH's claim is a romantic moment between them meant NOTHING to Ichigo in the ENTIRE manga 🤣.

The WDKALY novel has such OOC content on there, like it can't be taken seriously. Apparently, Kubo barely had any involvement with it anyway? Those sketches he drew sure are telling, esp if he calls his drawings here as a "rough draft" 💀

"Chicken scratches" for the canon ships, fr 😭.

RR is another dumpster fire but also more meh for me so I don't have to delve into that one, however, here's a post I once made where I go over why I don't truly believe Renji had feelings for Rukia. Meanwhile, Rukia's sad expression on the novel cover & the sketch of heading to the altar with a scared expression (not even when she was headed to her own execution did she look like THAT) say it all anyway 🫢.

Oh, man, there's just so much to make fun of for the canon ships. Even when we lose, we still win. IH's have no content, so maybe that's why they're so bitter & IR & its shippers still live in their minds rent-free despite them calling it a "dead ship". You would think they'd happily enjoy their canon ship & yet... They get triggered whenever IR fanart garners thousands of likes on Twitter 😩...

So, anon, I suggest not to engage with antis, esp on platforms like Twitter & Reddit. They're cesspools full of dudebros & loud IH's. Ignore, block, &/or mute them. No need to try arguing with them & please do NOT cater to them. Do NOT give them the validation they don't even get from Kubo himself, nor his affiliates (LMFAO). Use that energy to look for other fellow IR's & enjoy IR content (and maybe anti-IH content in the right places; you can explore that tag on my blog if u wish 🤪).

As an old saying in this fandom went, "Keep Calm & Ship IchiRuki."

[allbluedepths]

This was originally part of the ship bingo post, but it spiraled out of control and became a very large pile of thoughts. So instead, the Wings of the Emperor AU is getting its own ship dynamics post for Shanks, Mihawk, and Benn because it's sorta its own thing, and I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out how to even tag for it because none of their relationships fit in neat boxes very well.

(Wings of the Emperor AU is my early Red Hair Pirates era AU where Mihawk chooses to not become a Warlord and ends up not joining, but semi-sailing with the Red Hair Pirates. It mostly focuses on Mihawk's early dueling years with Shanks, his interactions with the Red Hair Pirates, and eventually getting swept up into their sailing shenanigans. TL;DR: I had the thought of "who would Mihawk be if forced to answer the question of 'who am I beyond just being a swordsman'" and it all spiraled from there.

For the record, some of the earlier posts aren’t 100% accurate anymore — big one being that I traded the “Mihawk was almost Shanks’ first mate” bit for something else — but this is an indulgent ship post, not me correcting my own lore post LOL.)

So, here’s a pile of thoughts to get my brain in gear to actually write more of the fic itself, haha. : )

This AU is… complicated? I'd say it's endgame Mihawk/Shanks/Benn triad in a very non-traditional relationships way. For example, by the time Mihawk semi-joins them and turns down the Warlord position, even Shanks and Mihawk don't have a concrete romantic relationship, and theirs is still the closest to that, haha. I guess it's best classified as:

Shanks and Mihawk: close relationship bordering on romantic; there's mutual interest, but their definitions of romantic also don't match "standard" definitions of romance, so it doesn't always read as that to others. Rivals/partners with a romantic flair?? Since Mihawk turning down the Warlord position and choosing to join them comes with a good chunk of other upheaval, there's a conscious decision to not really label anything, but they're on the same page of being mutually interested.

Shanks and Benn: hellooooo complex intertwined captain-first mate relationships. The fun duality of being both incredibly simple and incredibly complex. I'm team "many working captain-first mate relationships basically become life partnerships", and they're probably the prime example of that. Inconveniently for tagging purposes, it's smack dab in the middle of "&" and "/" relationships for AO3, so… eh, the vibes are vague. The details past the fact that they're basically each other's most trusted person stop mattering at a certain point.

Benn and Mihawk: Complicated, haha. By far the side of the triad with the most development to be had; right now, it's more like they're separate sides of a V polycule, rather than a triad, but the foundation's there. An odd, unexpected friendship turned an even more unexpected camaraderie as the years go by and Mihawk's around more and more. Absolutely no one outside of them (and occasionally Shanks) can really parse out what's going on here. Again, just over the line of what I'd tag as "&", and develops veeeeeery slowly over the years in its own undefined way.

…That ended up as a whole ass wall of words, haha. Shorter summary if you're looking for general relationship shifts:

Mihawk sails with the Red Hair Pirates (~6 years after the RHP start): only Shanks/Mihawk are semi/almost-romantic

Sailing time until Dawn Island: Shanks/Mihawk slowly get their shit together; Shanks/Benn inch toward maybe another realization or two, Benn/Mihawk "two introvert cats" bond starts really kicking in

Post-Dawn Island: Shanks/Benn get their shit together (thank you, realizations about mortality)

The decade-ish between Dawn Island and current canon: It's a polycule between an Emperor, an Emperor's first mate, and the World's Greatest Swordsman. Who cares if it makes sense to anyone else; it works for them, lol.

If you read this far, thank you, and I hope you enjoyed an unexpectedly long analysis drop for an AU I haven't posted for in a while and mostly exists in my brain right now, haha!

[amemenojaku]

Hisami and Zanmu for 1 on that ask game!

When I started shipping it if I did: Since day 1 when I read Hisami's dialogues, like most people I believe lol. I mean, how can you see her and not start cheering for her to get what she wants... Since it's still pretty recent I can add that two lines in particular made me seriously consider it and think about it beyond 'this is nice/funny': when Hisami tells Zanmu that she doesn't have to hold back around her, and when Zanmu tells Hisami that she knew Hisami would mess up on purpose, and that she'll give her a reward anyway - both are about danmaku obviously, but it got my brain gears turning >:]

My thoughts: They've slowly but steadily been going up my favorite ships, especially for the past 2-3 months... They work well together. Obviously I'd love the ship in touhou where one of them has a big fat actual canon crush on the other one, I've been in this hole since 2010 or something so Hisami's kind of a gift... but also in general I think it's a good spin on the boss/henchman trope when the boss is some mega charismatic chessmaster who could probably get anyone they want on their knees and yet their subordinate is one of the only people they can't fully predict/control. The wild card aspect is really funny to me and I love seeing fanworks where Zanmu's like... fondly sighing at Hisami's antics.

Things done in fanworks that annoy me: I think there's too many fanworks where Zanmu looks generally uncomfortable around Hisami despite never doing so even once ingame, and also too many fanworks where Hisami harasses Zanmu, sometimes to make very early 2000s jokes in very poor taste... I won't name anyone but there's a few big yuri artists on twitter who do that and it makes me want to bash my head against the wall when they get praised for it just because their artstyle looks good..... On a more positive note there's a few people who've been creating constantly good content of this pair and I think given a year or two nature will be healing!!

Also I'm of the opinion that Zanmu's fairly tall herself, just a bit shorter than Hisami, so I'm not big on the crazy size difference stuff (funny coming from a seishin fan, I know......)

Things I look for in fanworks: MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING!!! Getting to know each other past the infatuation (in Hisami's case)/the curiosity (in Zanmu's case) in deeper ways. I promise this isn't about sex lol (I do think about that too but not here rn) I really want to see how their relationship can grow and I especially want to see Zanmu enjoying it (as a petty reaction to the stuff listed above...). In their case I think physical intimacy would be a good setting for that kind of scene where their emotional bond grows, so that's what I'd go with if I were to create something like it, but anything can work if it's done in good taste imo. And in general I want to see Zanmu answering Hisami's affections with a positive emotion... whatever it is... I'm desperate.......

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: It's difficult for me to imagine Hisami with anyone else, although I do think she'd have physical relationships with a bunch of women while her feelings for her boss are still unrequited. Zanmu on the other hand I can picture being interested in a few other characters like Reimu or other onis or even the sages, but ultimately not as something she'd commit to and take seriously. The only real endgame is still zanhisa haha

My prefered future/ending for them: Whenever Zanmu considers them close enough to tell Hisami to drop the honorifics and overly reverent language when they're alone, and whenever Hisami feels comfortable doing that would be the ideal "endpoint" for me because of all the things it implies :) I don't care if at that point they actually consider themselves in a relationship or if they just aknowledge there's something going on. Though if they do get in a relationship proper I imagine they'd be very discreet about it. Also I think Hisami should get a promotion so she can directly work as Zanmu's prefered right hand arm man. woman. her everything. her confidant. her silly rabbi

What is their favorite activity together: Probably drinking. I imagine with how old she is and hanging out with onis Hisami's built up a decent hold on alcohol, and Zanmu appreciates it. They reminisce about their respective pasts and talk about the inner workings of hell and Zanmu gets a huge ego boost from showing off her 4D chess plans and Hisami praising her for it

[the-badger-mole]

OMG you talked about Haley and Andy in your last post and I feel so vindicated now. I thought I must be the only one who had a problem with that one silly romance from that million season comedy show not being canon, so now I'm just happy there are others like me out there lol. Do you have any HCs for them?

It wasn't just a silly little romance. They were mutually supportive! Andy encouraged Haley to go after her dreams. He saw that she was smart and driven, and he didn't make fun of her that her ambitions were fashion centered! She inspired him to aim higher, too! Even if it meant pursuing his dreams in a different state. They were the best couple on the show (which is probably why the writers couldn't let them be endgame. Can't have a couple that actually functions as a team🙄).

So, I've been kicking around an idea for a fix it fic for Haley. She's having trouble finding her footing at NERP. After the skin patch incident, she isn't sure if it's the right job for her, but since she doesn't have anything else lined up, she's hanging in there until she figures out her next steps. She's dating Dylan again- but she does not get pregnant. He's making not-so-subtle subtle comments about how since he's starting his nursing career and making decent money, it might be time to think about settling down. Haley is dodging the hints, frustrated at herself because Dylan is nice. He loves her. He supports her pursuing her career, even though he's also down for her following Claire's footsteps to become a SAHM. She's also freaking out because she's pushing 30 (she's about to turn 25, but it is still Haley). Why not think about getting married?

But whenever she thinks about marrying Dylan, she breaks out in hives. She thinks it's some lingering effect from the NERP patch, but her dermatologist can't figure out why it's happening. After a particularly rough day at work, she needs someone to talk to. Her mom is the obvious choice, but she's out of town for work, so she goes to her grandparents house instead, thinking maybe a dip in the pool will help. Jay is out with Joe, Mitch and Manny for a father/son trip, and Gloria is home when Haley swings by. They talk and Dylan comes up. Haley ends up telling Gloria about his increasingly frequent hints, and that she and Dylan have been dancing around this for a decade, and they keep coming back to each other so maybe it's time to just take the plunge. Then Gloria asks if Haley and Dylan are really drawn to each other, or if it's just that their relationship is comfortable- like the ratty old college football jersey Jay refuses to get rid of. A nice reminder of the past, but something that needs to stay in the back of the closet and never see the light of day again.

It's a lot to think about. So Haley goes home only to find that her father has a guest. Andy's back in town, and looking to start his own real estate firm.

A lot happens after that. Andy going after starting his own business inspires Haley to revisit her old ventures, and she restarts her blog. Then she launches her own lifestyle website. She gets fired from NERP for opening a competing site, but she doesn't give up on it. Andy sees her working hard and is thrilled for her. They even start co-working in the Dunphy's kitchen as they try to get their respective businesses off the ground.

Dylan stops asking her to move their relationship forward, but Haley doesn't notice until he asks her to speak one night. He's taking a position as a traveling nurse, and he's going to be living out of a trailer he and his friends are fixing up. He tells her he thinks they're holding each other back. He came to the same conclusion as Gloria, only his analogy is an old lumpy mattress he'd slept on since he was a kid until recently. It disintegrated and he had to buy a new one. He thought he'd never find another mattress as comfortable, but the very first one he tried, he fell asleep immediately for a solid three hours until the salesman woke him up and told him the store was closing. He realized that his old mattress wasn't actually comfortable, it was just all he knew. And he thinks that his relationship with Haley is that mattress- not that she's an old lumpy mattress. She's still hot, just not the girl for him. So he wants to give them both a chance to find their mattress.

Haley's website takes off. It becomes part fashion, part travel, part lifestyle hub. She spins it off onto YouTube and TikTok (she's an early adopter). Alex helps her make sure that her body products are at least safe, if not effective, so no more skin patch incidents. Soon she's getting sponsorship deals and collab offers. As she gets even more popular, she's hired as a celebrity stylist. Her first big gig is styling Zendaya for a red carpet event. She makes plans to move to LA. She tells Andy about all of it, and he is rooting her on at least as hard as her family. At the end of the story, when Haley is preparing her move to Hollywood, Andy gives her some exciting news. With Phil's help, he's sold his first property in Santa Monica, and he has enough listings lined up to start a little boutique business, backed by Phil's company. They joke about being neighbors, then roommates. Then they finally realize that the feelings between them never actually died. The story ends on them getting back together with STRONG And they lived happily ever after vibes.