#this is all to say that by season 4 he really wasn't that racist if at all anymore. like i mentioned he was w sancho and like...

[the-acid-pear]

Something I adore about T-Bag is how subtle but consistent his character development is because as the seasons go on and he spends more time out of the jail (or, in other, worse jails) the more of his worst traits and beliefs he kinda let's go. Which is what makes me passionate about him he really has it in him to improve, to change. By the intro of season 5 he was literally just living alone in a swamp or something and didn't even want anything to do with Michael.

Like it's not that it happens from morning to noon it's just that there's less and less opportunities for him to repeat his problems to the point he just stops doing it altogether willingly it's just really neat. I just enjoy it.

[echobx]

Yeah we don't know these people at all or anything real about who they are or their lives but I do agree that some of their behavior seems incredibly unprofessional and all the signs point to something bad but we should never send hate to someone. I for one would like to hear your theories where you connected the dots because I would like to be prepared.

I'm just gonna say it, I don't know exactly what goes on, I can only take rumors and the few confirmed moments we had in the past and connect the dots over that.

(post writing note: this got too long so I'm putting a readmore)

1. (and if you call me a hater for this, idgaf, bc it's true) Elaine being a racist and homophobic and also hard to work with

2. Rudy being with Elaine, staying by her side and defending her (which wouldn't be an issue, if she wasn't fucking racist and homophobic!!!)

3. Elaine having issues with not only Madison and her gf, but also with multiple others on set, including JD and Lilah Pate

4. Rudy voicing his desire to leave the show after his contract ends (which would be s4) UNLESS they fix his character arc. now this one is especially sweet bc he said this before s3 started filming and he and others, were not happy with the s3 script bc a lot of things (including Jiara) were not well thought through and it was rushed and super ooc. and then he allegedly asked for it again with the start of filming for s4.

5. bts shots of Rudy where he's always looking rather annoyed, or bored, or just generally completely down. he literally looks nothing like he did when the show started, or even for s2 or s3, and he was already less who he used to be for s3 (which might be connected to no.4)

6. Blind items saying Madison wants to leave and pursue music. The interview Madelyn gave was also super ambiguous to what will happen to the show. (tied to no.4 too)

7. very high possibility that Elaine was fired from obx, my reasoning behind this is that she wasn't in any of the bts promo videos they released and in the last three seasons she was always somewhere or had posted some promo pics already.

sooo let's look at these points again.

bc it's on my mind I'm gonna start with the Elaine drama. I'm not known for liking her, but I'm also not gonna send her hate or tell you how to feel about her bc tbh idgaf what you believe to be true or not when it comes to this, so take all I say with a grain of salt still and don't come into my comments saying "you just hate her bc she's with Rudy" no, no I don't. I can't stand her bc she has weird vibes, is literally homophobic and racist, and on top of that for all we know not the best gf too (he's not a good bf when he's woth her either, but that's another topic)

so, Elaine was at the show as a pa and to take care of the promo pics for the show. she was there from s1 on, was friends with Lilah and generally was not really that in everyone's business at the time for all we know. HOWEVER during s1 Rudy had a girlfriend Teo Marcella, she's in a few pictures with Rudy from back then. Teo was also super good friends with Madison, and I believe they still are friends today but just not as close. Rudy was also super thick with Madison at the time. Teo never seemed to have any issues with that. But as time progressed, Elaine kept getting closer to Rudy, and he's not as loyal as you might think. I don't believe there was an overlap, they broke up and a month later he was with Elaine. that is way too little time if you ask me unless, which is what happened, Elaine literally came on to him while he was in a relationship, which you don't fucking do. you just don't do that. point proven that Elaine isn't a girls girl.

between s1 and s2 Chase and Madelyn go on a ski trip with Rudy and Elaine, it's ally happy and cute and- gotta stop here cause I don't wanna throw up. anyway, s2 starts filming, everyone is still happy and things are good. well.... are they tho? bc Rudy is still bffs with Madison, but Elaine doesn't really like that, so Rudy stops hanging out with Madison as much, bc he wants to make his gf happy like you do, yk? the rest of the cast doesn't seem to annoyed by it all, it's literally mostly Madison who's affected by this. now, after s2 and before s3, I believe that was the time when the boys went to that basketball game? @redhead1180 told me about something happening there where Elaine shoved JD or something (we are still trying to retrieve the video that was posted to twitter at the time) and Rudy wasn't happy with her whole behavior that day (allegedly).

now, we get s3, or more so they get the script for it and I wholeheartedly believe that Rudy and Madison begged them to change it bc neither of them wanted jiara to happen. from day 1 on Madison asked for a queer plotline for Kiara and Rudy always went hard on the jjpope ship. but that didn't do anything, Jiara went canon and no one in the cast liked it (fight me on this. they all shipped jjpope before s3 promo tour started, no one fucking talked about jiara EVER and then on s3 promo tour they rather talked about rafebarry than mention jiara possibility and it felt as they had been briefed to not talk about jjpope at all) so, you can believe it or not, but imo Elaine got mad af when jiara went canon bc that meant Rudy would have to kiss his former bff who Elaine had already deemed a threat to herself. so things started cooking. Rudy and Madison barely talked on set or interacted much unless necessary. then Rudy booked two movies that year to avoid doing as much promotions as possible.

the s4 drama is a lot. some shit happened before the strike, like The Dinner™ followed by the Great Unfollowing of 2023. I wish to be a fly on the wall at that dinner, but one thing is clear, that night was the start of the end and the reason why Madelyn said there's "multiple cliques" on set. whatever was said, we know that Rudy sided with Elaine, bc if he hadn't he prolly wouldn't still be with her. so, Madison unfollowed Elaine and Elaine did the same for her. now, that's already messy af, especially with what Madi posted in her stories and reposted on tiktok. like, some serious shit went down there and I need her to spill the tea.

after the strike we get Morocco. where we have some videos of Elaine being rude to fans again (reoccurring issue), I know that some of them had been following Rudy around and I'm not saying that's appropriate either. but she has a repeating behavior of dragging him away and pulling on him when he's with fans. and ppl will say "it's scheduling issues, they don't always know exactly when they have to leave" which fine ig, but how can you be sure that's the case all the time?? bc I don't think it was the case for a lot of these. now I wanna say something that I have seen being repeated on here and on twitter, no Mariah isn't just as bad as Elaine and just as clingy. Mariah is supportive of Madison just as much as Madison is supportive of Mariah. Mariah still does her job, mostly in LA, while Madison is off filming somewhere. that's completely different from Elaine who literally follows Rudy around like a lapdog. those two things are not the same. pls tell me you've ever seen Elaine in a place where Rudy wasn't also at? hasn't really happened, has it? and I think that might be part of the overall issue and reasoning why I think they also fired her. bc the Pates are trying to keep their show alive through all this drama. like, she has reported beef with Madison and JD and Lilah. if two of my main cast, if not more, and my family tell me to get rid of her and hire someone else in the hopes for things to get peaceful again, hell yeah I'll fire her. and that would also explain a little why Rudy doesn't hang with the cast as much as he used to on set and why he's always looking miserable, bc they rightfully got his gf fired.

also, she's not a good gf, she's clingy and apparently insecure about her relationship with Rudy, which is visible in her feeling threatened by Madi although Madi has never shown any interest in that way in Rudy. but ig that's just what happens when you come onto a guy who's in e relationship and he goes for it, you'll just always wonder if he will do the same to you. (I'm not even gonna touch Rudy's cheating rumors and the recent break-up rumors although they make a lot of sense and it would be so much healthier if they actually broke up instead of staying toxic for each other with the false pretense of love)

on Rudy leaving. I don't think he would want to leave if they fix JJs character arc and work with him, bc he made that character who he is, before that JJ was just a hollow character on paper, with not much to go off at the start. But I do think he will if they didn't do that. He has other projects to look forward to, he's talented enough to keep his career afloat without Netflix. and I also think that if Elaine is actually fired, he's not happy with that and how it happened and he probably doesn't want to work with those ppl as much anymore, but who knows. All I know is that the happiness and lightheartedness he had in the first season and even in the second season, is completely gone. but when you look at him doing other projects, like the bts of Crusades or 5lbs of Pressure, he looks genuinely happy and not like he does on obx. so something has to be going on there, even if all I said above turns out to be bs, there's something going on that makes this job feel like 9- to 5 to him from the looks of it. and tbh if that's the case, I don't even know if I want him to continue OBX bc the show is about fun and friendship and summer, not about being miserable and feeling like shit just being there. so the Pates might take the L and kill off JJ and hope that the show continues, but tbh, Netflix isn't known to make shows that are longer than 4 seasons. so if s4 happens and JJ dies and they greenlight a fifth season, I'm gonna predict s5 will be the end of the show, simply bc watch numbers will go down when Rudy isn't there anymore.

I think this was already way more than you thought I'd say even though it was pretty compact and only really two theories ig lol. but yeah, that's what I think.

also, Rudy doing the play, which is great he always wanted to do theater, but again having it during the s4 promotional period is just so clear to me that he doesn't want to hang with the cast anymore. he's not posting anything anymore like he used to, he's not commenting on their posts or even liking them like he used to, he's not hanging out with them like he used to. and it's not a coincidence to me that this happened and keeps happening and that it gets worse. but a lot of ppl don't want to see it bc it will destroy their perfect bubble they have built around him.

[akajustmerry]

laughing so hard at all the embarrassed "roman is the most empathetic" people lmao. THIS is why fans of colour kept saying you were wrong!!! hope youse stay forever embarrassed that you misinterpreted and infantilised a racist bigoted little fascist who showed fascist tendencies from day 1. hope you reflect on why it took 4 seasons for you to see what fans of colour told you from the beginning, that this person was a vindictive entitled little asshole with no compassion for anyone. I simply am gobsmacked that it wasn't the serial sexual harassment, the humiliating of a literal child, or the misogynistic abuse toward his own sister that made y'all realise. it really took 6 years of all that AND this man putting a fascist into the whitehouse for so many people to be like, "omg he's not empathetic 😭"

[herefortarlos]

911: Lone Star Season 5 Countdown - Beginnings

(1) Which 911 Lone Star season premiere is your favorite? Well, since it was the only premiere I watched live, I guess I'm going to have to say Season 4 😅. I would not call it my favorite, mostly because I hated having to wait those first few weeks to complete that Tarlos story arc and get the resolution! But I had just joined Tumblr again with my new tarlos account, so even though I wasn't active like I am now, I did enjoy seeing others speculate and talk about the episodes, and make gifs and new fics based off of things! People's engagement here is what I'm really looking forward to with season 5!

(2) Which character do you think had the best introduction or first scene in the show? I will say my favorite character introduction was TK's! His first lines were, "I'm going to ask Alex to marry me" and them using a gender neutral name was smart because then later when I realized he was talking about a man, I was like, "Ahhhhh, he's a gay character on a Fox show and starring side by side with Rob Lowe!" I am so into this and in love with him already!

(3) What is your favorite moment of 1x01? Ooooo, but there are so many to choose from! TK's overdose and Owen finding him, them doing the interviews with Paul, Marjan and Mateo! Making us think Judd was going to be a stereotypical red neck and he turns out to be this sensitive, giant teddy bear who loves and misses his family! My favorite though is probably the Honky Tonk scene and everyone coming together and of course Carlos sidling up to TK and me realizing, "Oh my, this hot man is hitting on him!" I am so far gone on them already!! And I miraculously did not have anything from season 1 to 3, spoiled for me, so I had no idea just what their relationship would become 🥹

(4) When did you first start watching Lone Star and how did you find out about it? I started watching Lone Star in October of 2022. I remember because that's also around when I started my current job 😆 I remember specifically seeing FB clips of the 1x02 racist lady scene and also the 1x03 shielding Marjan when she loses her hijab in the silo scene. Hearing TK's "I am a homosexual" and Paul's "I am trans though", and then seeing a Muslim woman, I was so unbelievably interested in this diverse cast of characters! Oh and I had the Hulu trial at the time and had just finished bingeing Modern Family and I saw Lone Star was on there, so I decided to start that while I still had it. Needless to say I started paying for Hulu monthly because of LS 🤣

(5) What is one wish you have for the season 5 premiere? Hmm, many, many wishes. But hopefully a simple, realistic one is I need to see at least one instance of Tarlos being in love and happily married! Just give me one happy thing between the two of them, and then I will gladly take the weeks of angst, I just need something to hold me over until we get whatever amazing resolution they have planned for us, as is tradition!

Thank you for the tag @lonestar-s5countdown! I really enjoyed thinking about all the reasons I started Lone Star and what I immediately loved about it!

Zero pressure tags to, @heartstringsduet @thisbuildinghasfeelings @tellmegoodbye @paperstorm @strandnreyes

@theghostofashton @orchidscript @bonheur-cafe @eclectic-sassycoweyes @ladytessa74

@carlos-tk @cold-blooded-jelly-doughnut @carlos-in-glasses @alrightbuckaroo @lemonlyman-dotcom

@whatsintheboxmh @emsprovisions @chicgeekgirl89 @reyesstrand @lightningboltreader And OPEN TAG 💖

[genderflu1dwh0r]

Are you stupid?

You can be racist and have POC friends, Jason is way worse than Billy any day. Jason isn't the one being abused by his father everyday, he isn't poor, he didn't get taken from his home and live with a step sibling that he didn't know that well.

Jason is a horrible person and got his friend to tackle Erica, then he held a gun at Lucas. You can't tell me that that isn't racist, you can't tell me that's worse than what Billy ever did. Jason said "I thought you were one of the good ones". That. Is. Racist.

Billy got his bad traits from his father. Billy got beat by his father. Billy was crying into the phone for his mom to come home. Billy had no support system. Steve was the only person that Billy bullied and tormented, and in my opinion, Steve is a worse character than Billy.

Steve threw slurs, while Billy got slurs thrown at him by his own father. Just because you don't care about abuse victims, doesn't mean you have to spread your hate.

I think that Billy just wanted Lucas to stop hanging around because if Neil found out, Billy would be the one getting beat. Neil would probably hurt Lucas way more than Billy could have ever done. Billy was protecting Max and himself, he was scared that Neil would find out. He did care and love Max, he just showed it in some confusing ways.

Also, the Duffer brothers are racist, they wanted Dacre to say the N word. Dacre protested and it ended up not happening. Billy saying the N word isn't canon, cause it didn't happen in the show. Stop always going to that excuse for him being a bad person. He never said any slur.

People say "if the actor wasn't hot, then people wouldn't have liked him" and I disagree. His character is very interesting. He has a backstory, he has trauma, he has an actual interesting plot unlike any other character. Dacre is also a very amazing actor, he was able to make Billy even more interesting.

Dacre has said that his art imitates his life. He put his own life into the character, he didn't have a great relationship with his dad, he has said this.

Max is a horrible person too, she drugged Billy with something that she didn't know was in, almost hit him with Steve's bat, screamed at him before leaving and stealing his car. Billy could have died on the floor, he was drugged and had no car. Tell me that that isn't abuse. Just because Billy grabbed her wrist ONE time, doesn't mean it's abuse.

Siblings fight all the time, it's just what happens. Especially how their family dynamics was. I and many others have fights with our siblings. You get over it in like a day. That doesn't make Billy a bad person. He did some really shitty things, yes. But that doesn't excuse all the hate he gets. He's a complex character, no other character is like him.

That's why he's my baby boy. I relate to him, I'm an abuse victim, I love knowing that I have a character to relate to. Stop blaming abuse victims on how they grew up, they can change. He could have changed if he didn't die. He could have, but nobody let him.

Nobody tried to help him. He didn't have a support system. The people who compare Jonathan to Billy are wild, cause Jonathan did have a support system, his mother did so much. Billy had nobody. His father beat him, hi stepmother did NOTHING to stop Neil, she just watched. She was clearly abused too, but she's the adult, she has to be there for Billy. She has to get Max away from all of this, which in season 4, she did. But she turned into an even worse mom.

Right here. He was trying to get help, he was trying to get the MF to get out. He wanted someone to help him. He kept fighting, and that's how he saved everyone on the day he died. He knew he was going to die, he was sobbing.

Try to think before talking bad against Billy.

Why do people say Vecna/Henry/Jason/Troy/James/Angela are better than Billy?

Vecna/Henry literally tried to kill children and the whole world. Billy wanted to have some fun and games, he would never go to prison for killing a child. He was never going to hit Mike, Lucas, Dustin, or Will.

Troy/James made Mike jump off of a fucking cliff while wanting to take Dustins teeth out. Tell me that isn't fucked. MIKE WOULD HAVE DIED IF EL WASN'T THERE!!

Jason held a fucking gun to Lucas's head and got Erica hurt. He sent a witch-hunt over Eddie and that ended up killing that poor boy. Literally, he was poor and Jason is a rich christian white boy. Tell me that isn't classist. Jason also did this to get information out of a kid.

Angela deserved the roller skate to the face for what she did to El. I would have done the same thing, El never deserved any of what she went through there.

Anyone going to object? Cause you can't, my points are spot on. Why aren't we gonna get mad at Jamie Campbell Bower over saying he relates to Vecna/Henry? If Dacre is bad for doing so, why can't we shame Jamie for the same thing?

I would count the MF taking over Billy like that as a reference of sexual assault. His body gets taken away from him, he is crying for help, he is scared and tried to tell someone. I've talked to SA survivors and they agree.

Anyway, I am pissed at Billy antis and I am just so done with them.

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

ofmd s2e1 rewatch where i pause to jot down my thoughts and other random shit

not quite a reaction post bc i've already watched the whole thing. not quite a liveblog bc it's one post and it's probably gonna take me a full hour to get through a 28 minute episode at the rate of pausing and typing i'll be doing

s2e1, s2e2, s2e3, s2e4, s2e5, s2e6, s2e7, s2e8

anyway, pirate time:

i love how much fun con is having choking on his own blood

dream!stede's extremely teary face right before he takes off running down the beach is doing psychic damage to me

also dream!stede's stupid ridiculous outfit with all the long ribbons and shit...

ed and stede make contact so hard shjfkhsgjkfd the loud OUGH sounds from both of them

also the return of ed's old beard! i didnt expect to see her at all this season, so that was a surprise.

"babe" "love" im tearing out my own hair

stede has yet to learn that ripping ass near your beloved can be a love language

stede is a terrible fucking roommate just deal with wee john's gas in silence like the rest of them. goddamn.

WHO HAS THE OUR FLAG MEANS DEATH TRAMP STAMP. WHO IS THAT.

i like when the background OST is familiar to me lol the little strings when stede starts his letter throwing me back to s1

olu: that–that's the swede the swede: Im the swede roach: he's single ;) me: *pissing my pants with laughter*

also the direct confirmation that the swede literally doesn't have a name. incredible

shjkfhdhfkj the crew encouraging him. stede's "it's okay" and roach "be brave" im CRYINGGGGG

stede doing customer service is something that can be so personal. "reservation?" "eat my fuckin' shit" "right! walk-ins, then" average restaurant experience

the random background guy saying "my favorite hand!" abt getting stabbed in the hand is making me giggle. i love the humor on this show

why does stede have so much shoulder movement going on when he's walking through the bar. whore behavior.

"this is for mom!" sorry but i want to know more abt whatever's going on there

also the purple mohawk. dope.

buttons is so distressed LET HIM RETURN TO THE SEA THESE CONDITIONS ARE INHUMANE

"i know the odds of you finding this are slim but so were the odds of us finding each other in the first place" IM RIPPING OFF MY OWN SKIN

also stede's lil sad hopeful smile after throwing the bottle... i care him

i love how they make this wedding fucking suck so we don't feel too bad abt the whole massacre thing. "the natural condition of humanity is base and vile. it is the obligation of people of standing, such as yourselves, to elevate the common human rabble through the sacred transaction of matrimony" if i was at a wedding and the officiant said that i'd also start killing people probably

yayy murder montage :)

FANG BREAKING THAT GUY'S SPINE OVER HIS KNEE

the whole cake scene is so fucking funny im sorry. i love u jim drawing the line at attacking a shitty wedding. i love u archie who wasn't here for the good old days so you dont really see a problem with how things are. i love u frenchie with ur box in ur brain that u never open again. i love u fang it's gonna get better i swear. i love u frenchie again bc u just took the cake right out of fang's hands while he was fucking sobbing hfjhgkjhdkjkf

I MISS IVAN JUSTICE FOR IVAN. wish they could've said he'd just fucked off somewhere instead of dying but i think that would've raised the question of why hasn't anyone else fucked off since they all seem so miserable

very relieved that stede isn't taking the racist/antisemitic caricature drawings of ed to make like a boyfriend scrapbook like some people were theorizing. would've been overkill if after episode 4 from last season stede still didn't realize that ed hated these sorts of depictions of him.

INTERESTING DETAIL THO the background music in this scene is "a pirate's life" aka the song frenchie sang in the pilot. it's an instrumental version obviously but yeah i recognize that tune

also more cool background ppl with dyed hair man i love this show

zheng yi sao flirting with olu is so good. he deserves it.

how nice of ed to offer his drugs to the crew. sharing is caring.

also it's so funny to me that the thing izzy is tormented by is ed saying "you can't do the job, someone else will" the toe thing's happened three times and apparently that was fine but the thing the show edits together right before izzy breaks down into the most pathetic aheemheem whimpers isn't any of that it's ed threatening to fire him

also they cut ed throwing knives at izzy!! what the hell.

releasing the clip of izzy crying kinda ruined it for me when it came time to watch it in the show bc i watched it several times since it dropped and now seeing it in context i was like "ok i've seen this already fast forward." i mean i didnt fast forward through it but i did kinda zone out bc i've seen this bit already. this post kinda sums up my thoughts on it

"trifling ingrate plan" dshkjfshgdskhfjkhgkjh

"SEMI-CLEAN WATER"

JACKIE CALLING THE SWEDE "BOO CAKES"

"i know that guy we had breakfast together!" "you'll be having a lot of breakfasts-es together" "oh, okay" i fucking love this whole dynamic like i can tell they're writing the swede out of most of the episodes for budget reasons (sorry nat faxon) but by god do they give him such an excellent fucking send-off. can't wait to see him again when he's in his trophy husband number 20 era

roach is upset abt not being able to cook, buttons is tied up so he doesn't go running back to the sea (i assume). stede you are not giving your crew the environment they need to thrive.

olu being an optimist :)

buttons opens his mouth to drink the rain and in the background u can see roach yanking the rope around buttons back fhdjskgfjhgkjfh STEDE YOUR SEA WITCH CANNOT THRIVE IN THESE CONDITIONS

stede tries to make things sound good in his bottle letters to ed but out loud he says his actual insecurities... it's so fucking tasty tho that he thinks ed could be doing better without him and THAT'S why he's been stalling so much. not afraid for his life even a little bit he just assumes he's not wanted. brb i have to cry now

"im sorry if that's a little bit creepy" "you are creepy" in this scene where they're soaked from the rain. ofmd said this prince ricky guys is creepy and wet.

stede's fucking FACE when prince ricky says "you're my hero" his fucking "clearly you dont own an air fryer" face I CANT STAND HIMMMMMM (affectionate)

prince ricky "these rubes" "men of our standing" yeah i cant fucking stand this guy (derogatory) i love how he's barely even in this episode

stede's face when the swede is talking abt how happy he is with jackie... my man believes in love so much im gonna cry

also in what fucking way does the swede owe them a life debt. roach and buttons literally tried to eat him

izzy's "you know me better than anyone knows me and i daresay the same about you" this is literally so false i dont even know where to begin. izzy in e6 being like "if i didnt know any better i'd think maybe ed might possibly maybe be actually enjoying bonnet's company" while ed and stede are giggling and making each other friendship bracelets. this guy doesn't know ed at all.

also i cant get over how izzy wont make eye contact he's like staring blankly into the middle distance delivering these lines so flatly until he goes to say "i have... love for you" and in that moment he looks like he'd rather ed were feeding him more toes.

"im worried about you, we all are" not gonna lie my dude you've had a weird way of showing it thus far. where was all that worry when you told him he was better off dead than wearing a robe and singing songs?? where was that fucking love then?

and NOW izzy wants to talk it through. izzy literally voted to make blackbeard great again and now he wants to give open communication a chance???

lmao there's a limit to how many characters can be in a bulleted list so here's fucking. part two. on the same post:

ed asking everyone if the vibe is poisonous and fang cant stop crying and ed's face is just like "eh good enough" im fdhksgfkjtdkh

anyway ed with a loaded gun under his chin talking to himself is hurting me so fucking much actually. ed my beloved babygirl for whom i would die. this poor traumatized man. yes he is making this workplace toxic as hell but god. GOD. im gonna throw up.

the way ed is so fucking casual about shooting izzy in the leg. just calm and jovial as he promotes frenchie to first mate. stepping over izzy all crumpled on the floor. everything about this is so fucking good. i mean it's horrible for ed and everyone around him but for me watching the show this shit is DELICIOUS. i love when the pirates get violent and unhinged i love when this shit gets fucked up. ed's mental state is so bad right now and it is causing me severe anguish but also it is so tasty. fuck.

anyway frenchie trying to turn down the promotion fhjkghdfjkhf

the cut to the swede performing the husbandly duties is INSANE. COMPLETE TONAL WHIPLASH. I LOVE THIS SHOW.

"fuck those hammies up!" spanish jackie i love you

black pete why are you so fucking loud AND WHY WOULD YOU JIX IT LIKE THAT???

why is prince ricky so small. he's like a full head shorter than stede. also this guy is insufferable i love how stede just fucking abandons him fhjkgdhkdfghkj

"the calf muscle is the most mysterious of alllll the muscles" what the FUCK does that even mean. oh swede i will miss you

NOSE REMOVAL FUCK YES. I LOVE THIS SHOW.

obsessed with the swede playing dumb. the dramatic gasp. "wow, so bad!" fhjsghdkjf

"aint you that soup bitch?" "im the money bitch" i love women.

sfdsjkh spanish jackie being into double-crossing. and slapping the swede's ass on the way out. i love this show

i love how zheng says "this much indigo is worth three times what i paid" while spanish jackie and the husbands are still like, right there. and they just don't hear that bit. incredible.

OUGH the back of jim's weird rope armor looks like a ribcage that's so cool

i love how jim is so fucking bad at telling this story. i love how the monkey's paw comes into it. i love fang asking them to do the voice. i love archie trying to hold back her laughter i love jim and fang giggling together I LOVE THIS SHOW

ed's fucking voice breaking through his whole convo with frenchie. im tearing out my own teeth

HEY DID YOU GUYS KNOW THEY HAVE POST-CREDITS SCENES IN THIS SEASON?????????? WHAT THE HELL

i take back what i said about jim being bad at telling this story their version is so much fucking better. squeaky voice "I pray to you, Dark Lord, to make me real flesh! I want to be real flesh!" IM FUCKING OBSESSED. JIM I WOULD DIE FOR YOU

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

What you say to this

Let's debunk all the lies:

1 - "Kataang is one-sided" We literally hear Katara talk about how he gives her hope in the begining of EVERY SINGLE EPISODE, she canonically starts thinking of him as potential boyfriend instead of just a friend right in the middle of the first season (and after it we never see her having a crush on another boy like say Jet), the kiss on the cave at the start of season two is HER idea and she clearly enjoyed it, she is visibly upset when he's pulling away from her after Appa's kidnaping, her rage at his death is a clear parallel both to Tui and La as well as Oma and Shu, she is jealous when he's paying attention to other girls and flirting with him, she clearly liked the kiss during the Invasion even if she didn't see it coming, she threated to murder Zuko if he ever hurt Aang again, and even in the Ember Island fiasco she full on says to Aang that what her actress said about her only seeing him as a little brother is not true.

2 - "The age/maturity gap makes it weird" It's literally the same age gap as Zutara. It's TWO years, not twenty. Katara likes having fun and goofing around just as much as Aang does. Aang steps up and embraces his responsibilities just as much as she does when he discovers what the Fire Nation did to the world, and his people. Honestly, despite being older, Zuko is the least mature of all three - hell, 16-year-old Zuko is less mature than 13-year-old Zuko, which makes perfect sense because his abuse and banishment made him double down on all of his flaws, mainly his stubborness and tendency to lash out in rage.

3 - "They spent the second half of book 3 always fighting and disagreeing" They literally were only in conflict during The Southern Raiders, Ember Island Players, and then on the first episode of a four-part saga. Three episodes out TEN. Katara and Zuko meanwhile spent 5/6 of the entire series being enemies, AND she only forgave him when there was only ONE more episode left until the finale.

4 - "Zutara doesn't have any real red flags" Ya know, besides the fact that Zuko's nation and family commited genocide against Katara's people, and that he believed that was 100% okay, and that he chased her and her friends all over the world being openly hostile and violent, and he once hit her so hard it knocked her out cold, and he constantly calls her a peasant because he's very classist AND racist to the point of not recognizing her father's authority/status, and he attacked her when she offered to heal his uncle and then again in Ba Sing Se after she thought they had bonded, him helping Azula in battle was why she got to murder Katara's best friend and then he also sent an assasin after the Gaang to finish/repeat the job, and after all that he still felt entitled to her forgiveness after he was accepted into the group. Once again: this is why no one takes zutarians seriously. They love bragging about their ship being "complex and intriguing" then try to completely negate canon because for all their talk about "calling out abuse in Kataang/Maiko", they are, at their core, enablers.

5 - "Zutara was part of Ehasz's vision for book 4" No, it wasn't, and the man said so himself. He liked Mai and Maiko, and wrote lots of Kataang episodes. He has repeatedly let everyone know that the supposed interview in which he talks about how Bryke forced Kataang to happen at the last minute is FAKE.

6 - "We didn't get book 4 because Bryke wanted a movie" Bryke didn't really WANT the Shyamalan movie, but Nickelodeon, their bosses, wanted money. They literally walked out on the production because they were unhappy with it. They were OFFERED to make season four, but didn't feel it was necessary and stuck to three - and while I don't think that was the best choice, it still worked and it was a decision fully divorced from any movie deal or ship war.

7 - "People get angry at mention of zutara despite there being nothing wrong with the ship itself (besides not being canon)" Literally no one is obligated to like a ship just because YOU think it's perfect, and that kind of entitlement, the "I'm better/smarter than everyone else" complex, combined with all the lies, is exactly why people tend to hate the SHIPPERS and by extension the ship itself.

Admiting that zutara has always been pure fanon and that it isn't for everyone doesn't mean you have to stop liking it. Quit acting like a spoiled child, go enjoy your ship in peace, and respect other people's right to be indifferent to it or actively disliking it. Their personal preference is not a personal attack against you, stop treating it as such.

[fishyyyyy99]

OK, I seriously can't believe someone actually thinks this about season 4 of Never Have I Ever:

"In 2023, the message of the show suddenly turned into *"racism, white supremacy, patriarchy, and class inequity doesn't exist anymore. Devi did a Bollywood dance, got into Princeton, and a racist white guy said he loves her at the last minute, so everything is going to be okay (for Gen Z)."*

This is the opposite of the premise that the show started with in 2020, which acknowledged the brutal unfairness in the world."

Firstly, it wasn't a Bollywood dance. They danced to the Tamil dubbed version of a song that is originally Telugu. Tamil cinema is known as Kollywood, and Telugu cinema is known as Tollywood. Maybe people who comment so much on racism should learn a little more about not clubbing all of Indian culture together. As a Telugu woman who lives in Tamil Nadu, I'd like to say that I was really happy with the dance number. I was especially happy because it wasn't a Bollywood dance (season 1 just used Hindi songs, and that really annoyed me because Devi is Tamil).

The show literally acknowledged that Devi ("our little hothead from the valley") was happy in that moment. There was no claim about everything being okay forever. It's just that she is better equipped to deal with problems now. She will continue to grow non-linearly, just like she did throughout the show.

Of course, the show became less about dealing with intense grief as it went on - time heals. But they did portray that grief still lingers, despite that.

Also, the portrayal of familial relationships was great - Devi talking about how it's cool to live with three generations of women in her house, Nalini having to deal with empty nest syndrome, Nalini talking about her own struggle with having to start over in the US after being a top resident in India (but of course, the last season does not acknowledge how brutally unfair the world is /s) and how she was just trying to protect Devi from being devastated, Devi setting her mother up (showing how much she had healed and grown since season 2), Kamala being too attached to her family to move away and Nalini telling her that change is good (and even Kamala's coping mechanism of becoming overprotective of Nirmala), Kamala and Devi's sweet moments, the family's acceptance and joyous celebration of Nirmala finding love again, Nirmala calling Nalini out for being mean to Devi, and of course, the heartwarming scene of Nalini helping Devi pack and telling her she's proud of her. Devi's final monologue focused primarily on how much she cares about her mother. Did all of that mean nothing to some people?

Never Have I Ever is not an unproblematic show. But I still can't believe it's being reduced to this. I. Seriously. Just. Can't. Devi was so much more comfortable in her skin than when the show started, and was no longer obsessed with external validation. Her relationship with Nalini had improved greatly. She embraced her culture so much more. She was okay with not getting into Princeton, and realised that she'd always be connected to her father no matter what. I don't mind that she didn't completely give up on her Princeton dream. I don't think she needed to, to show that she had healed. She was able to tell her dad's story in a way that felt true to herself, and did not feel exploitative (she reclaimed her power from a racist white guy). She was truly happy when she prayed to the gods before leaving to Princeton. She was surrounded by people who cared about her and loved her, as she said. And she was happily in the middle of a fun game of Never Have I Ever before Ben showed up. She had learned to love herself and her life. The show having a happy (for now) ending does not equal them saying that everything is going to be okay forever. The world is still brutally unfair. Devi is just a little better at dealing with it.

I don't know who needs to hear this but Never Have I Ever had a TEAM DEVI ending! Just because Devi was not single at the end of the show/ended up with someone you dislike, it doesn't mean that the ending wasn't a win for team Devi.

TEAM DEVI FOR THE WIN! AND THAT'S WHAT WE GOT.

I'll acknowledge that there were issues with the show throughout all four seasons. But I can't see such an empowering show being dismissed in such a ridiculous way.

[chalicedefinite]

I have been on this tag since day one and the majority of the posts and blogs I've seen adore Louis. Pointing out canonical traits like him actively lying in Canon books and now the show as well is not being hateful or disrespectful. Saying episode 5 and the whole tale infact being revisited is Not fans of lestat being apologists. It is what Anne Rice canonically did with the Vampire Lestat and the books that followed. Louis is loved widely in this tag. Lestat is being hated on as a result of the villainous portrayal in season 1 which again Canonically is a tale (not a true one) being told both in books and in the show. A lot of people however took it too far with the lestat hate and started calling anyone who liked him names and then people starting to fight back and the rest is how we got to here. If there is no understanding to fans of both characters the two most loved characters in the show -who at the end of the series canonically end up together- then what the hell is the point of being in this Fandom in the first place? Please don't take this as a personal attack it wasn't meant as one but as another person's experience and thoughts of the fandom so far.

I’m going to be honest I find this very hard to believe that it was only just about liking Lestat.

I’ve gotten more hate and vitriol from Lestat fans ever since I’ve joined this fandom. I’ve never talked bad about his character and I make it very clear on my blog that I love him and that he’s my favorite character both in the show and in the books. And yet, because I calmly engaged with a popular blog’s theory about episode 5; everyday I wake up to hate in my inbox that I have to delete. Lestat fans have been nothing but disrespectful to me for no reason.

Im a Lestat fan myself and I talk about how much I love him all the time it seems and I haven’t been once called a racist. I’ve had anons accusing me of hating Lestat but never ones accusing me of racism. This is the second time someone has told me that Lestat fans are bullied for liking him when all I’ve seen and experienced thus far is the exact opposite which begs the question: Is it really because you like Lestat or is it something deeper that other people picked up on but not you yourself? 3. How is anyone’s rational response as a human to someone calling them racist for liking Lestat is to deny the systemic oppression of black people? This is the main thing that doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. How did we go from, “Users were attacked for liking Lestat” to “So a bunch of blogs are now starting to agree with and talk about how reverse racism is real.” I’ve gotten attacked for liking characters before and my reaction to that is blocking whoever is causing trouble and ignoring them. I got harassed to hell and back in the Voltron fandom for defending and liking Allura and never at any point was I thinking about how affirmative action is the real systematic evil plaguing society. If this kind of thinking was always in the back of certain people’s head as they were analyzing the show then it’s safe to say that people weren’t mad at them just because they liked Lestat. You can not properly analyze a show where a black man talks about how he was systematically oppressed for being black when you don’t even believe in systemic oppression yourself. How can you sit down and watch this show where Louis is constantly being put down by the white people around him, where he has to pretend to be his husband’s chauffeur, where you see white people burning a black neighborhood, where Louis and Claudia cant even sit next to Lestat and have to sit at the back of the bus and come out of it thinking that reverse racism exists in our society? Louis is the age of a lot of black people’s great grandfather, what he went through was not that long ago and the society he lives is still alive today.

4. What purpose would it serve narratively to have Louis and Claudia lie about episode 5? I’m leaving this question here because the last time I tried to have this discussion it led to anons hounding me.

[tellthemeerkatsitsfine]

Chortle headlines roundup, anyone?

Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. We're not doing this. Jeremy Hardy went in his late 50s, Paul Sinha's health is deteriorating, if we lose Mark Steel before his time then they'll have to just cancel Radio 4. Not doing that. Fuck that shit. He's only 63, that's younger than my parents. Absolutely not.

...The article does say the condition is treatable and he'll likely be okay after a while, so that's good. It also has some on-brand quotes from him that muse on mortality. Good man. We are not losing that one yet.

(Obviously... not to make a serious issue all about me and other lovers of Radio 4 or anything... I wish a speedy recovery and the best for him and his family and all that.)

I wasn't sure I was going to watch season 3 of this - not that seasons 1 or 2 were bad, but season 2 didn't keep my attention all that well (except when Joe Wilkinson and Jessica Hynes were on), I figured I get the idea and don't really need to see a lot more. But actually, that's quite a good lineup. Roisin Conaty is always funny. Add in Alan Davies, Guz Khan, and Chris McCausland - and yeah, I'll probably give Knockoff Taskmaster a watch again.

You know, I wondered about then when I watched the French and Saunders show. The constant fat jokes about Dawn French seemed okay because she was one of the writers, she was choosing to say it about herself, that makes it okay the same way it is when Jo Brand does it. But still, there really were a lot of them. And obviously comedians are pressured to make any feature about themselves into a USP, so just because she agreed to do the jokes doesn't mean she always wanted to. That show was funny, it's a pity to see this.

(Obligatory note that the headline, like most headlines, is a bit sensationalized, these Chortle headline round-ups are meant to be partly a joke about how the headlines don't really tell you anything and just throw a bunch of disparate facts in your face all at once, and you should really read the articles if you want to know stuff. But the information in the headline is basically accurate.)

The Aussies are coming! The Aussies are coming! With their excessive Rs after vowels and their mildly racist names for coolers!

(I briefly misread the Sam Campbell article's description as calling him a "Taskmaster winner", and had a split second of believing Chortle had somehow made a colossal blunder and accidentally posted a huge spoiler that made me very pleased.)

If they make that, I'll probably watch it. I might watch some of the Irish one because Aisling Bea and Catherine Bohart, even though the worst fucking person in the world is also on it.

I did watch the first two episodes of the Canadian one. Have I admitted that on here yet? It wasn't my finest hour - and it was just one hour, two episodes - when I watched reality TV on Amazon Prime. But Mae Martin was in it. Mae Martin was in it looking focused and intense as they tried not to laugh and for personal reasons I just had to see that. Then (spoiler alert, I guess) they were out after two episodes, so I didn't watch any further.

I have to admit I rather enjoyed it, though. The rest of the cast was also funny. It had Jon Lajoie, guy who made a bunch of funny videos when I was in high school that my friends and I used to quote all the time, then didn't make anything for like 12 years, then came back in 2020 with this absolute earworm that hit the perfect note of what we needed in early pandemic days:

Anyway, he was on the Canadian LOL show, and he was pretty entertaining. Also Colin Mochrie from Who's Line, which I used to watch as a kid. Tom Green, quite a good stand-up comedian who went to my high school (not at the same time or anything, he's much older than me, he's just the only famous person who ever went to my high school). K Trevor Wilson, aka Squirrly Dan from Letterkenny. Andrew Phung from Kim's Convenience. It was fun seeing the mishmash of Canadian comedy people from all these different things in one room. I guess would be less of a novelty in the UK, since we don't have panel shows here.

And I've got to admit, when I forced the judgmental "there is no logical reason why this is a higher form of entertainment than any other shit reality TV" part of my brain to turn off, I found the format pretty funny. I'd watch Irish people do that. I'd watch British people do it. I mean, I didn't love it enough to finish the show after Mae was gone. But I might go back to it at some point.

Still doing that, are we? Going with the cheeky term "peeing Tom" for men who spy on naked women without their consent? I don't object to Hugh Dennis playing the role obviously, they're not going to portray that as a guy we're supposed to like. Just not sure I love Chortle's word choice.

That's good. Put your minds at ease, people who are worried that Jim Davidson isn't mentoring aspiring comedians. Everything's okay.

I was about to say "Steve, what the fuck would you consider a 5-star show then?", but then I remembered that to be fair to Steve Bennett, the quality of this show does vary wildly depending what night you see it and who's in the audience. Don't turn up to this and derail it with heckles, everyone, even though you're allowed. The show in its proper form is brilliant.

I tried to ignore this one, I really did. But I'm sorry, that's too funny a headline not to include here. Sorry, Johnny. Bad luck.

[episodeoftv]

Round 1 of 6, Group 2 of 4

propaganda is under the cut (607 words) - may contain spoilers

summaries (pulled from imdb or wikis)

propaganda

Dancing with the Stars - 31.11 Finale

The four finalists perform their final two routines in hopes of winning the mirrorball trophy.

The winner had been pre-decided before the season even began which rendered the entire season pointless. I also watched on the West coast so I went into the episode knowing just how rigged it actually was because the results were already posted online. I don’t expect these shows to be 100% authentic but I at least expect the finale to use actual votes instead of having the winner put it in her contract that she wins.

Lost - 6.17/6.18 The End

The Man in Black searches for Desmond to achieve his goal of destroying the island. Jack, the newly-appointed "protector" of the island, sets out to stop him. In Los Angeles, the survivors reunite and recall their island experiences. / Locke puts his plan into action, which could liberate him from the island.

Locke puts his plan into action, which could liberate him from the island.

1) Worst payoff of all time. What the fuck does any of it mean and not in a fun twin peaks kind of way in a this had so much potential and such high expectations attached to it way. I haven't seen GOT but i really think Lost rivals it for cultural impact and widespread enraging of the audience. This final is proof that a TV show should never be greenlit without a complete story outline. I rewatch every so often though when it's good it's great it's a real tragedy

2) So many loose threads either messily explained or ignored completely. Extremely unsatisfying explanation of what the island was.

3) Legendary L, never been one like it, the king is on the top and we can see him, just fell on their fucking faces I can't explain I won't explain

4) They were just so unsatisfying. None of the build-up (and there was a TON of build up) paid off.

5) ok look. the Lost finale has been criticised a lot, and a lot of that criticism has been dumb (they weren't all dead the whole time and people need to stop saying that you guys are just misunderstanding the episode) HOWEVER. I maintain that even if a lot of the criticism of it historically has been unfair, it's still an awful finale. Its first and biggest crime is the main plot of the episode (and season as a whole) is really boring. It does away with the interesting character drama and moral dilemmas the show always excelled at and turns everything into a boring black and white good vs evil battle between two characters we don't care about. Just generally it feels super dumbed down compared to the rest of the show, especially when the stupid afterlife plot swoops in and starts explicitly telling the audience which characters were good, which were bad, and which characters were meant to end up together. It's frankly baffling, it feels like the writers suddenly decided they were sick of letting the audience interpret things for themselves. and again, one of the main strong points of the show had always been its moral ambiguity and openness to different interpretations. And the worst part is that we don't even really get a cute "everyone reunites in the afterlife" ending, because the writers FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT HALF THE CHARACTERS. WHERE WERE MILES, DANIEL AND CHARLOTTE? WHERE WAS WALT? WHERE WAS MICHAEL (actually I know exactly where Michael is he's stuck on the island as a ghost forever because his crimes were too bad to ever redeem himself) (his crimes were not that bad) (he had a very sympathetic motivation of wanting to protect his son) (this wasn't in the finale but I think is emblematic of the same problem of the writers really really dumbing down the morality of the show) (also it sucked and was racist). However at the end of the day this episode's true crime is being boring. I would forgive so many problems if only I cared even a tiny bit about the main conflict going on, which I don't. because no one cares about jacob and the man in black.

[ur-mom-64209]

Would you mind giving a detailed description of your thoughts about Billy Hargrove? I've been trying to get a lot of information from both ends of the argument on this topic. If not I one hundred percent understand!

yeah sure

i'll start with the easiest thing i can, he's racist. canonically racist. he specifically targeted lucas. he said "people like him" (if it's not word for word oh well) when referring to lucas. you can't really defend that.

why does this matter to me? i'm not black, but it still matters. i'm mexican and have been told i have the darkest skin out of everyone in my family. i've experienced racism in many forms.

1. casual

jokes about my skin color, jokes about my culture, shit like that. usually followed up with "it's just a joke"

2. passive aggressive

more silent racism, like the stereotypical white woman clutching her purse as i walk by. like you just know they want to call you some shit but they don't

3. flat out aggressive

slurs, trying to fight me (idk why though)

4. miscellaneous (idk what section to add these to)

people saying they "don't see my color", denial of their racism, saying white privilege doesn't exist, sexualization, cultural appropriation, tokenism

so i am pretty sure i can confidently say i have seen and experienced racism, so i know what it looks like.

and obviously i know racism will look a bit or very different when applied to different races.

examples: i have never been called the n word, that's something black people experience. i have never had comments made on my eyes/had them been made fun of, that's something mainly asian people experience (same with stereotypes on food).

i have a lot of people of color in my friend group, and we have all discussed what racism we've experienced. and guess what, billy has done what some of my friends have described. crazy how that happens.

yes yes, i know he's fictional. but does that automatically mean i'm going to throw away my morals at the sight of fiction? no.

another thing is SOME of his fans have god awful takes.

example 1. saying that 12 year old mike wheeler was more racist than billy was.

yes what mike said in season 2 was racist. but racism is racism. mike had one situation of my knowledge. billy did what i previously said, and acted violently. if you say him grabbing and pinning 12-13 year old lucas against that dish cabinet or whatever the fuck that was, wasn't violent or attacking, reevaluate why you think it isn't.

then obviously there is him trying to run the party off the road, he saw lucas in the group and only have a shit max was hanging out with lucas.

he didn't care that dustin had obvious feelings for max, billy only cared about lucas being around max.

example 2. he was possessed by the mind flayer, he had no control.

that was in season 3, not season 2. yes he was possessed in season 3, but in season 2 he didn't even know about the upside down, so that argument is entirely irrelevant when discussing season 2 billy.

and yes i know he was abused, and that's tragic that he's relatable. i would never wish what he and a noticeable part of his fan base have experienced.

i also know his abuse traumatized him into commiting the actions that he did. i think it's pretty unfair when people who are anti billy say things that can quite literally mean "just get over it". but i also think it's incredibly unfair when people who are pro billy just ignore the negative impact he left.

i had some difficultly rewatching some of his scenes that he was in, because of his racism. again, i experience racism daily. so i'll say it again, i can't just throw away my morals for fiction, i'm sorry, i just can't.

[princeescaluswords]

It’s an awfully complicated plan for a profit-driven entity like MTV to gamble on when the proven formula has been to cast conventionally attractive white men. There are plenty of other white-privilege-driven explanations for the examples you cited, like benefiting from the optics of diverse casting despite a lack of interest in exploring it meaningfully on the show or making up excuses to overlook deeper story beats for minority characters that the writers are less interested in. 3/4

Oh, I am sure there are other explanations, but then there's this.

I think it's disingenuous to believe that audience response had zero impact on the behavior of the production or the network. The show did react to the overwhelming fandom engagement in Sterek, when it absolutely did not have to. I have three pieces of evidence for this that come directly to mind. I am sure I could find more, even if I exclude instances of really strange narrative choices in later seasons.

The Famous Ship Photoshoot, from above. While the Teen Wolf cast is notoriously affectionate with each other and prone to unscripted goofiness, I don't feel that I'm going too far to say this was staged. The powers that be planned this, and it is a direct reference to the Sterek phenomenon. This wasn't the only time they did this. Just like certain elements on the show, they wanted to harness the energy of the fandom by implying things that were never going to happen. Some audience members called it queerbaiting. I don't know if it was a mistake by the production caused by misunderstanding that Sterek was predicated on making white male characters the primary focus of the show or if they cynically noted it and didn't care, but they did encourage it.

The reaction to Poseygate. You must have heard of the outrage when Tyler Posey, the lead actor of the show, dismissed the fandom fixation on Sterek as something that didn't have anything to do with the show. What you may not have heard is that the official MTV social media sites responded with a flood of pro-Sterek memes. They didn't issue an official correction; they didn't deny what Posey said; they didn't instruct him to apologize. But they also didn't say he was wrong. For Hollywood? That's a very precise non-action.

The mistreatment of Arden Cho. For a show in this particular genre, Kira's relationship with the other characters, especially the lead protagonist, was incredibly significant. Yet, the elimination of her scenes in 5B, the nature of her dismissal from Season 6, and the situation in the movie all point to a production confident that the metaphorical equivalent of dropping Cho and her character off a cliff wouldn't be a critical mistake. I think that it's pretty safe to say that fandom disinterest in Kira, who was referred in such terms as "placeholder, rebound, useless" played right into that.

None of this behavior is fundamental proof, but added together, it shows a production empowered in their choices by seeing fandom dismissal of characters of color. When you add in all the narrative decisions that don't make any sense -- such as the argument in Season 6 that they need Theo for Josh's power because Kira couldn't handle a lightning bolt when we saw her blank out the entire city in Season 3B -- then you get the idea that racist fandom behavior had a significant impact on the show.

[odinsblog]

Hey Odin, I have a question about a situation involving racism I would value your opinion on (I'm leaving this public in case you'd rather reply privately, but feel free to post publicly). If you would rather not answer though that's 100% fine.

Say you have a white friend, presumedly someone you're more than just acquaintances with and have built at least a surface layer of trust with (but not necessarily a long-time or super close friend you'd feel hesitant to tolerate bullshit from), who invites you to his employer's annual Company Holiday Party as a +1. You and your friend meet up at a well known and rather expensive restaurant, exchange hellos, everyone is all smiles, and you two proceed inside. The party is in a private dining area with 2 long tables, everyone exchanges pleasantries and is seated.

Now it's been about an hour, enough time for plenty of drinks to be had. Whether you decided not to drink or you did and just enough time has passed, you're rather sober now. One of your friend's co-workers is on the opposite side of the private dining area, at the other table you're not sitting at, saying some unquestionably racist shit to the other people he works with. He's not blatantly using slurs, but is saying the same garbage talking points still being overused by every right-wing media personality arguing against any challenge to the status quo. You don't get the impression the man is intentionally saying these things to target you or to start drama, he's clearly just self-absorbed into his own bullshit with the people who agree with him or just willing to tolerate him. No one else seems uneasy or uncomfortable about this other than your friend, who is clearly embarrassed: you don't know if he's only embarrassed because his +1 is a black person or if he would be equally frustrated having invited someone else or no one, but you do know in this moment he wants to do something about it. As his friend you know he'd probably be willing to do anything that wouldn't immediately cost him his job (like starting a fist fight right then and there), but would definitely risk it if that consequence was just a probability instead of a certainty.

My questions are:

1.) What would you, Odin, specifically and personally prefer that something be? As in, what would you prefer him do/help you do to deal with his co-worker (even if that something was nothing at all)?

2.) Would your answer change if instead your friend didn't seem to mind what was happening (you wouldn't be sure without asking if he couldn't hear/wasn't aware of what was being said or if he was deliberately ignoring it)?

3.) Next year you are invited again as his +1 for the same company. Considering the conclusions from your above answers, do you accept or reject the invite?

4.) Have you ever been in a similar situation?

And lastly thank you in advance for your time dude, even if you decide to not participate I really appreciate you taking the time to consider it.

Long answer is long, sorry

A quick preface: Unfortunately, in the business world networking is a necessary evil, and most networking happens away from the job, or after hours at activities very thinly disguised as “work related” functions. I cannot speak for every Black person ofc, but this definitely is not an uncommon situation in the business world—especially the higher up you go in your professional advancements or “up” as in working for a Fortune 100 company.

Holidays, peak seasons (ie. tax time or close of fiscal years if you’re in banking/accounting; Christmas for the transportation industry; etc etc) and sports playoffs are the usual times of year for this “networking,” but any special occasion could make this an any-time-of-year occurrence.

And the thing you’re describing is “casual” racism, where the white (or non-Black people) almost “don’t know” that they’re being racist. For example , at a pool party “work function” a white woman peer was sitting in my lap in a jacuzzi and kinda sorta hitting on me, while trying to teach me how to smoke cigarettes (long story) and then saying, “but don’t nigger suck the cigarette” … and not realizing why I went tf OFF until her friend (the white guy who invited me to the affair) told her what she had literally just said.

IMPORTANT: That all said, if it’s NOT YOU who has to be there for business networking, like if you don’t gotta be there for YOUR job, then my short answer is no - don’t go, do not subject yourself to that. Life’s too short for that kind of fuckery. It’s one thing if you’re trying to survive in this racist environment, but if you don’t have to, then don’t. I wouldn’t.

The rest is for anyone else, or in case you DO have to network, @classicintp

Let’s do this in reverse order:

4) Yes, I have absolutely positively been in this situation before. Definitely way more times than I should have been.

3) If my work acquaintance handled it well, I would be tempted to go in the future, but tbh I wouldn’t go out of my way.

3.1) For me anyway, here’s how things worked: early on with a business, you don’t have a lot to lose financially speaking, right? So year-one I’ve nearly come to blows with racist coworkers/acquaintances in similar circumstances. Even when the starting salary was BIG, I didn’t have enough time invested with the company or in my own career - so telling someone exactly where they could go was never too long of a journey for me. But as time passes, and you start getting promotions and your bank account starts getting fatter … well, let’s just say you learn to be a bit more diplomatic and more concerned about your long term reputation in a nearly all white industry (that’s practically every industry, btw)

SN: This does NOT mean take any racist bullshit from anybody. No amount of money is worth your pride and dignity. You gotta be able to look in the mirror. If it crosses any red lines, you will know. Respond and react accordingly.

When this happened to me most recently, I have re-attended. For work. But the difference is that now, unlike early on, having been around my field for over a decade, I have made a fairly good reputation for myself, so not that it won’t or can’t happen again, it’s just a tiny little bit less likely. I might still be “the Black guy” at an industry function, but now it’s more like, “crap, it’s that Black guy,” so I have a small buffer zone between me and most casual racists.

2) If my “friend”/acquaintance did not speak up for me, I would dip and not associate with that person again unless they had a bullet proof reason for not speaking up for me. And not everyone will speak up, so be prepared for that. Maybe they rationalize it by telling themselves that they have to pay the mortgage and your “friendship” isn’t worth jeopardizing their career. Only YOU can say if that’s acceptable for yourself, but if they excused racism once, they will excuse it again. And I’ve been Black for damn near 39yrs, and if there is one thing I know that I know, it’s that white people will almost always equivocate for other white people, and make feeble excuses where “casual” racism is involved: maybe YOU misunderstood, maybe that’s not what they meant, maybe an alien entity was controlling their body…

1) Yes! I will always always always want my white friends and allies to help me deal with any work (or non-work ) related racism, no matter how large or small. Because even if or when I address it on my own, sometimes for SOME white people, hearing why something is problematic just doesn’t hit quite the same as it does coming from another white person. Unfortunately. And remember, I’m going to have to navigate dozens and dozens of similar situations in the future—if I do it alone, I gotta be 100% perfect every single time. Can’t make anybody cry, can’t be seen as too angry or too aggressive, etc etc etc. Having a white ally present/backing me up makes it easier.

Look, I’ve had a white subordinate tell me to my face, point blank, “The only reason you’re my boss is because you’re Black. They had to promote some Black person eventually,” and I suspended him for gross insubordination, without pay. Was I mad? Yes. Did I wish I had a witness who was a white ally that would have made it easier for me? Hell yes. But I lucked out in the end because HR and the union steward backed me up. I’ve had people make the racist, “what does a chainsaw say?” “joke” when they were certain that I was within earshot.

My point is, the shit WILL happen. You want your white work friends and acquaintances to help you deal with this shit whenever or however racism manifests itself.

And this is for anyone reading this: the same goes for speaking up against things like gay “jokes” or rape “jokes” or antisemitic/Islamophobic “jokes” and so many other common workplace micro-aggressions. If you want a good ally, you gotta BE a good ally, right??

The easiest way to deal with it is to firmly say you aren’t with that stuff the very first time it ever happens. Throw down some clearly visible markers so that everyone knows exactly where YOU stand. It doesn’t have to be a big speech or dissertation, a simple, “Hey, man, that shit’s not cool” will speak volumes.

Hopefully I didn’t ramble too too badly, and hopefully this was somewhat helpful, and most importantly, I hope your friend really IS a good friend and responds accordingly, as we would want the people we associate with , to respond

[lovipop2049]

I don't get why Jonathan is hated/overlooked so much honestly. He made one mistake as a 16 year old and the people in this fanbase drag him constantly for it. The characters in Stranger Things themselves literally accepted his apology, Steve even admitting he did some things wrong himself. And honestly, IIRC, I don't think he even did that on purpose. Either way, he literally outright says he shouldn't've taken the pictures and doesn't excuse himself for it at all. He had consequences for his actions, too, his camera, his prized possession, being broken right in front of him and the pictures being ripped up.

The characters in Stranger things, both kids, teens, and the adults, (not all, quite a few characters haven't done anything) have made way worse mistakes or actions but get brushed off either because they're "hot" or something happened to them. Billy, for example. His racist and abusive actions are always excused for him being abused in his childhood. Jonathan was abused too, but people aren't making the same excuses for him either. (Not saying being abused excuses anything, by the way, just making a point, and also I'm not trying to compare them, they went through different things, I'm just talking about how the fans use it as an excuse).

Also, Jonathan is just a sweetheart. He did so much for everyone and constantly gets dragged on, despite how much he went through as a child. He was abused, bullied, and was made an outcast by the school, yet he doesn't even have to try to be kind to nearly everyone he talks to. He was also forced to basically become a parental figure, getting a job and not being able to have a normal childhood because of his abusive deadbeat dad who didn't contribute to the family. He had to take care of Will and even his own mom sometimes. There were only few times he's reached a breaking point, but IMO, it was totally fair. He fought Steve for saying awful things about his family, comparing him to his father, accusing him of 'cheating', and calling him slurs.

Also, I think him being angry with Nancy in season 3 for getting them fired was totally justified. He finally got a good job, but Nancy was pushing him to report on something that wasn't asked to be reported on, and then got them both fired. And no, I'm not blaming Nancy for being angry at the people in the workplace for being sexist and treating her horribly. And in the long run, their boss (I can't remember any of their names for the life of me, sorry.) was controlled by the mind flayer. But I think the thing is, sometimes people don't get you really don't always have options. Nancy is rich, she could get a job anywhere else and even if she doesn't she still has the money and the family to support her (even though her parents aren't great, but...). Jonathan doesn't have that, and like I said, his family is poor and he doesn't have the greatest situation. I don't understand why people get so mad at him for this. If you were in this situation you'd be pissed, too. People always say "Oh if the roles were reversed you'd have a different opinion' blah blah, if Jonathan got Nancy fired you all know damn well you'd be on his ass for that 💀 (I would be criticizing him too, but the point is that nobody would change their mind 'if the roles were reversed'). Also, I'm aware the boss was flayed, but even if he wasn't, she still would've got both of them fired. She impersonated a reporter and misrepresented a company, bothering a woman with mental health issues, and dragged her boyfriend who didn't want any part of it into the situation. I honestly feel like he only helped her because he was afraid she'd get mad.

Also, another thing that pisses me off is how people constantly drag on Jonathan for being high in season 4. Like ok, so what? Eddie was drinking and smoking weed too, people still praise him. Also, I actually like Eddie as a character, but I'm gonna make a quick point. People always say Jonathan wasn't useful in season 4, getting high, but he was the one who came up with the idea to find El and IIRC, he played a major role in helping find Suzie. He was still an amazing brother to Will, giving him a heart-to-heart about how he's still there for him even if they don't talk as much anymore, and telling him it's okay to be who he is and that he still loves him regardless. Eddie, who also smokes and drinks in the season, didn't do much and wasn't really helpful. Finding Watergate? Dustin's idea. Jumping off the boat? Steve's idea. All he really did was tag along in the upside down and messed with Nancy's plan to make himself seem like a hero when the problem could've been entirely avoided and it would've gone way smoother. Also, again, I do like Eddie, but I'm just making a counter-point to people's criticisms towards Jonathan. And Jonathan doesn't have to do anything. The reason they all LEFT Hawkins was to get out of all of that shit and start new lives. But he ended up helping anyways, and in a big way, because we all know that without Eleven everyone would be f*cked.

Jonathan goes through so much and hasn't even gone past his breaking point yet, and I think in season 5 he will. He is justified to let out his anger. He blames himself for Will's disappearance, and he must feel so guilty for leaving Will to go trick or treating without being there for him during his episode. He thought his mom was going insane, he thought his own brother died and it was his fault, he had to face his abusive father, he had to go to his brother's funeral, got shit talked for just existing (because we know Steve just didn't like him at that point and was finding excuses to bully him. It was obvious he wasn't doing anything with Nancy), got severely bullied and abused by people around him, again, had to basically become a parental figure, get a job as soon as possible, find out his brother survived but now he has to watch him closer, etc. He also had to literally self harm and make himself a sacrifice so he could kill the Demogorgon. That's just season one. He is constantly walked on by people around him and overlooked in-universe. Despite all of this, he's still caring towards everyone, he's empathetic and supportive, he tells people they should be themselves and he lets people know he doesn't care about what other people think, that he still loves them. Even to the people who treat him like shit. He still saved Steve's ass after he bullied him for so long.

About the Nancy thing, too, I don't think it's either of their faults (besides the fact Nancy was flirting with Steve...) but I just simply don't see their relationship working out. The Duffers are definitely taking the Stancy route and to be completely honest, I wouldn't mind that, simply because Steve and Nancy have improved as people (I still don't love the ship, but I wouldn't mind if it went that way now opposed to season 1). But they only really clicked because they both have been through similar trauma and had similar experiences. I routed for them at first, guys. I literally screamed when they kissed and probably woke up my whole house, but I loved them. Now, I don't think they'll work.

And I truly hope Jonathan gets treated better in-universe, too. Nobody genuinely seems to care for him. Obviously Joyce is his mother, and Joyce ILY but you're putting way too much pressure on him. I hope he has someone by the end of the show who will be there for him and give him all of the love he deserves, even though I have a creeping feeling that he'll possibly die/get vecna'd by the end.

All in all, I think he's an amazing character and people drag him for the stupidest things on Earth. Sorry for this long rambly post but I just love my boy Jonathan and he's the best teen in this show IMO. He's also the most interesting and diverse.

Have a good day and thank you if you actually read this mess :)

[meid4]

My thoughts on Max in s4 (and Billy)

I don’t know if other people with childhood trauma can relate to that, but :

When I watched Stranger things season 4, I was kinda like : “c’mon, Max, Billy was a bad person ! How can you feel bad for him when he was a piece of shit ?”. But at the same time, I understood it so much, and I know that this is why I didn’t want her to feel that way. All that guilt.

Her, being so depressed, was showing what it is to live after something so traumatic happened (I mean that we don’t really see the others dealing with that side of PTSD as much)

Okay so, my abuser(s) are not dead, i even still live partially with some of them. Like, I know the wrong they did, that they hurt me and others but it’s so difficult, especially when they are family, to not feel bad when they're hurting. You hate them but at the same time, you know they are like that because they were also hurt. 

Episode 4 made me cry like hell. I wanted her to live, to be with people who actually care about her, and not be stuck with the memories of her abuser. Billy made her feel guilty when he was alive (because he needed to watch after her and because they moved to Hawkins) and still made her feel that way when he died. His power over her didn’t die with him. Her memories of him even twisted a bit, because of his sacrifice, she kinda thought : “oh, but he wasn’t that bad”.

HE WAS. 

Billy apologist are wrong, I’m sorry, but I can’t. It’s just a disrespect to Max’s character and all people who were abused. I think Billy is an interesting character, I’m not like saying people can’t like him at all (you can like “villains”, that’s not wrong. You just have to acknowledge the wrong they did at some point (I know that's an entirely different discussion, but yeah)) 

It’s a difficult topic, I’m coming from a place where I empathize way too much with Max and his other victims to forgive Billy even if he was abused. You can’t say that what he did wasn't that a big of a deal : he was a bully, a racist, and a misogynist. 

Maybe, if he had some of a redemption arc, my point of view could’ve changed a bit (his sacrifice doesn't count). Like with Steve, who had kinda like 2 seasons of character development in a good way. Even if he did things that were wrong, he acknowledged what he did and grew (I don’t remember everything of the show, so potentially fan fictions helped me love him much more lmao). 

But I don’t forget what he did. 

And what’s for the end of volume 2, when I watched it the first time, I kinda wanted Max to die OKAY WAIT HERE ME OUT, HERE ME OUT !

Because, it WAS so CRUEL to do that. She finally wanted to live, and killing her would’ve been HORRIBLE. It would’ve shown that the good guy’s don’t always win, and it echos with Robin’s line where she says that she doesn’t think they are going to make it this time. (yeah, I love a good angst to tear my heart apart. I was crying, throwing up when Max begged to stay alive). 

I’m like happy she’s alive now, she is one of my favorite characters and I would literally die for her. They HAVE to let her stay alive now, they can’t do the “is she going to die or not ?” 3 times. 

So I want to see what they are going to do with her character, now that we know that she wants to live. I hope she doesn’t stay in a coma most of the season, and that she isn’t going to be miraculously fine after waking up. It’s not my place to say if it would be okay for her to be a disabled character because Sadie Sink isn’t disabled, so I’m not going further with that. I just hope they aren’t going to rush the rest of her character arc.

And I want her to be happy with her new family, because we love a good found family.